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Speaker 1: We should like pluster that on our walls. Yes, everything,

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Speaker 1: everyone's got something. Hello, and welcome to stuff mom never

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Speaker 1: told you. I'm Annie Reese and today I am joined

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Speaker 1: by guest co host Eve's Jeff Coke. You might have

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Speaker 1: heard Eves on Afro Punk, which is a great podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you haven't checked it out already, you totally should.

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Speaker 1: Or on Stuff of Life, also an amazing podcast that

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Speaker 1: is not doing new episodes anymore, but you can go

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Speaker 1: and find the old archive and check that out. And

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Speaker 1: Eves and I we have worked together for a while

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Speaker 1: and we've been trying to make this happen for a while,

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Speaker 1: trying to get on the same get on the same podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hives are so excited to have you. We've been trying

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Speaker 1: to have you on the show for a long time. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to finally be here. Yes, um, yeah

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Speaker 1: I've been. I've been hanging around, creeping and lurking around

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Speaker 1: Seeky for a while, just looking at the podcast, looking

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Speaker 1: in the window, just like, hey, when you're gonna let

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Speaker 1: me in? When are you going in your head? Rise up? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: We've we've been trying for a while, and scheduling is

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Speaker 1: always an interesting thing. With so many busy people in

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Speaker 1: our office, but we are thrilled to have you here today,

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Speaker 1: and um, you pitched me a topic that I honestly

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Speaker 1: didn't know much about what we're talking about today. Do

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Speaker 1: you want to talk about what we're talking about and

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Speaker 1: why you want to talk about it? Yeah? So what

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Speaker 1: I want you to talk about today and what we

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about today is working women and

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Speaker 1: invisible illnesses, which is a long and very specific thing

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Speaker 1: because it comes at the intersection of many different issues,

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Speaker 1: I think, but I guess the reason that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about it is because we really touch on

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Speaker 1: a lot of these issues. Like we talked about people

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Speaker 1: with disabilities, we talk about women's issues, we talk about illness,

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Speaker 1: chronic illness, UM. But I think framing it through a

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Speaker 1: feminist lens and really amplifying the fact that there are

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Speaker 1: specific issues that women with chronic illnesses and invisible disabilities face,

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Speaker 1: um when they're in the workplace. And also there are

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Speaker 1: just a ton of people who who have chronic illnesses

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Speaker 1: that you don't know about and you would never know about.

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Speaker 1: And I think people think about disability and a really

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Speaker 1: in a way where they there's a default person that

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Speaker 1: they think about when they think about disability, and that's

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Speaker 1: just not the case. So I think it's just great

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Speaker 1: too to really bring that to light. Yeah, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad that you you pitched this because is like

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Speaker 1: I said, I didn't know too much about it, and

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Speaker 1: it it is something that I don't think we talked

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Speaker 1: about at all when we did the episode with Annie

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Speaker 1: Cigara on our episode about overcoming disability and kind of

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Speaker 1: the problematic phrase that that is. We got a lot

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Speaker 1: of response back to it, a lot of stories and

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Speaker 1: personal anecdotes, and I was telling you I learned a

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Speaker 1: lot from that episode as well, and it shocked me

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Speaker 1: how people feel comfortable coming up two people with disabilities

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Speaker 1: and pointing out although you were using that wheelchair a

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Speaker 1: moment ago, so I guess you're you're faking or just

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Speaker 1: always questioning ridiculous. Yeah. I think the thing about it

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Speaker 1: too is that you know and thinking about not being

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Speaker 1: educated on it, Like that's really easy because people have

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Speaker 1: such a range of disabilities. There are so many different

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Speaker 1: things that people are dealing with when it comes to conditions,

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Speaker 1: so you can't really know everything. Like we're going to

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Speaker 1: be continually learning about how people deal with their issues

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Speaker 1: and how they face their own issues and how they

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it themselves, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: the most important thing, UM, to listen to the people

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Speaker 1: who are actually going these things. But I think also

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Speaker 1: we're in a really you and I are in a

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Speaker 1: really interesting position because we we're in the workplace right now.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of meta because we're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're able to be in our workplace and talk about

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Speaker 1: this kind of thing, and at the same time we're

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Speaker 1: saying these things are not talked about in the workplace enough.

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Speaker 1: I think that applies in our case as well, like

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Speaker 1: we don't talk about it enough here, yet we're here

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Speaker 1: right now talking about it, which I think is a

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Speaker 1: good thing. Yeah, I completely agree, And it does tie

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Speaker 1: into a lot of topics that we've discussed before. UM,

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Speaker 1: emotional labor is a big one. And you turn me

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Speaker 1: onto this, Um these badges, please offer me a seat badges.

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Speaker 1: I've never heard of that or seen that before, but

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Speaker 1: it's it's a badge that you would wear it, I

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Speaker 1: would say, really helpful on public transportation. It's just a

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Speaker 1: way of indicating that maybe you can't see what I'm

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Speaker 1: dealing with but I could really use a seat, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's just a really good example

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Speaker 1: of how people deal with their illnesses in a very

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Speaker 1: everyday thing, because I think these badges were in London

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Speaker 1: is where they were instituted, and you don't have to

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Speaker 1: pronounce your illness when you sign up to get the

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Speaker 1: badge or anything like that, so there's nothing like that

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Speaker 1: that's required of a person to get it, and they

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Speaker 1: have these guidelines on how other people should be treated

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Speaker 1: when they're on public transportation. But um, yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: really good example of how people face these things like

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Speaker 1: every day in moments where it may be very comfortable

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Speaker 1: for you if you're a person who's not affected by

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Speaker 1: your disabilities, or you don't have any disabilities that would

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Speaker 1: disrupt the way that you take public transportation. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a moment where you can say, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: there are people who have different lives than I do, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they're not in a wheelchair and they don't

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Speaker 1: need to say or maybe they're not elderly um and

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Speaker 1: need to sit. But there may be another reason that

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Speaker 1: a person should really have a seat to make the

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Speaker 1: experience of commuting from one place to another, which is

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Speaker 1: such a thing that you should find comfort in, Like

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Speaker 1: you can't. We're in Atlanta, so can be Oh yes, yeah, So,

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Speaker 1: I guess the thing about this topic is that there

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Speaker 1: are so many there's like it's like a nesting doll.

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Speaker 1: So there's this large category of like people with disabilities,

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Speaker 1: and there's women with disabilities, and then there's women with

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Speaker 1: disabilities in the workplace, and it's this like intersection of identity.

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Speaker 1: So there's like this multiple discrimination that's going on there.

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Speaker 1: So in thinking about women with disabilities in the workplace,

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Speaker 1: you can break it down in them even further than

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Speaker 1: that to women of color with disabilities in the workplace

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Speaker 1: and queer women with disabilities in the workplace. And so

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Speaker 1: beyond the sexism and the misogyny and the able ism

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Speaker 1: that may happen in the workplace because of those identities,

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Speaker 1: you can also have a racism that happens as a

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Speaker 1: part of it. Um. So yeah, there are a ton

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Speaker 1: of challenges, and I know that we won't be able

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Speaker 1: to touch all of them. That would be exhaustive. So yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I guess the first thing I think of when I

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Speaker 1: think of invisible illness um is the term itself. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: like words should be something that we're thinking of all

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Speaker 1: the time when it comes to issues like this, and

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Speaker 1: it's something that changes all the time. So an invisible

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Speaker 1: illness or disability specifically, it's something that's a physical, a mental,

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Speaker 1: or neurological condition that limits a person's movement, senses, or activities.

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Speaker 1: And it's one that's visible, which means that you can't

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Speaker 1: see it right off the bat. And and like clearly

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Speaker 1: that's not something that a person with an invisible quote

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Speaker 1: unquote illness or disability would feel themselves, because they're the

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Speaker 1: ones who are going through it. So it's something that

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Speaker 1: is you know, it's a power dynamic because it's really

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Speaker 1: from the perspective of the person who doesn't have the

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Speaker 1: disability or illness. Yeah, I'm glad you you brought that up,

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Speaker 1: because it is important that we think about words. I've

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Speaker 1: I love words. I just had a conversation about this,

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Speaker 1: like literally an hour ago about we should really re

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Speaker 1: examine a lot of words in our language and where

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Speaker 1: they come from because the past can be offensive. So

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you you brought that up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I am guilty, you know, I have to check

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Speaker 1: myself sometimes because you and I talked about yesterday, how

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Speaker 1: something that I realized that it's like, oh, there's a

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Speaker 1: blind spot here, just like okay, right there, whereas aren't

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Speaker 1: important and there's just arrange when it comes to like

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Speaker 1: how much a disability affects a person and how it

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Speaker 1: affects their performance and their day to day activities. So

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Speaker 1: I think the most important thing is not to assume.

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Speaker 1: But I would say not to assume in the direction

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Speaker 1: where it's like, don't assume that they are not disabled.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's more so okay to assume that

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Speaker 1: a person does have a disability, because just the sheer numbers,

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Speaker 1: like a large percentage of people in the world have disabilities. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: According to the CDC, twenty seven million women in the

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Speaker 1: US have disabilities, and among women Native Americans and African Americans,

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Speaker 1: they have the highest percentage of those of those disabilities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, obviously a lot of those people also

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Speaker 1: are in the workplace. So we're going when we're in

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Speaker 1: the workplace, we're going to need to address these issues

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Speaker 1: to make a more equitable workplace, in a workplace that's

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Speaker 1: safer for everybody. Yeah, because isn't that ideal? Isn't that

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Speaker 1: what we want? Yeah? And I'll also add that the

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Speaker 1: notion itself of invisible disability can be a little problematic

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Speaker 1: because it operates like under this assumption that the disabled

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Speaker 1: body has to be like hyper visible, like you have

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Speaker 1: to be you have to have disabled on your forehead

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Speaker 1: and read letters or something like that, And it's the

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Speaker 1: responsibility of people with disabilities to declare themselves as such,

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Speaker 1: which is not the case. Um, that burden shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: on people with disabilities. And it's kind of like this

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Speaker 1: thing where people with invisible disabilities are like twice removed

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Speaker 1: because they're outside of this norm that is already outside

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Speaker 1: of a norm like people's disabilities are already mothered. I

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Speaker 1: will say using the term invisible illness is still important

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Speaker 1: because it's still something that's not addressed enough and it's

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Speaker 1: not talked about enough, So it's kind of necessary to

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Speaker 1: still use it so we remember and recognize and acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are people who have disabilities that

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Speaker 1: we necessarily wouldn't assume based on our perceived notions of

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Speaker 1: what a yeah, person with disabilities should look like. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And um, like you're saying, don't assume. And I remember

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Speaker 1: when I first went to when I went to college,

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Speaker 1: and I had all these new friends and we were

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Speaker 1: learning about each other, and I just it was constantly

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Speaker 1: falling into that trap of comparing myself to my friends, right,

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Speaker 1: and they're what I saw is perfect life, and I

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Speaker 1: in every instance it was one of the best life

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Speaker 1: lessons I ever got. I would learn that they were

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Speaker 1: dealing with all of this stuff that I didn't know about.

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Speaker 1: And everyone's got something, right, So I think that's a

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Speaker 1: great thing to keep in mind. Yeah, we should like

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Speaker 1: plashter that on our walls. Yes, everything, everyone's got something.

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Speaker 1: And then underneath is my other thing. Something always comes

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Speaker 1: up because it does, it's true, right, um. And if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about invisible disabilities, some some examples are things

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Speaker 1: like chronic pain or fatigue, HIV, endometriosis, epilepsy, narcolepsy, PTSD,

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Speaker 1: irritable bowel syndrome, being deaf, are hard of hearing, and

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Speaker 1: lyme disease. And fifty four million women have multiple chronic conditions,

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Speaker 1: many of which would not be considered disabilities because they

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Speaker 1: don't impair day to day activities. But that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of women dealing with in illnesses and chronic conditions every day,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of those women, yes, are in the workplace. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And even though we are super familiar with all of

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Speaker 1: those things you just name, and we can name a

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Speaker 1: ton more illnesses to that really affect people and you

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Speaker 1: might not necessarily see it. Um, there's not much data

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Speaker 1: on how women in the workplace who have disabilities are affected.

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Speaker 1: And it's like that intersection is it just doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: It's and even when you break it down further, like

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Speaker 1: trans women, it's just it's not a ton of it

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Speaker 1: out there. And to add to that, it's like women

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Speaker 1: are left out of the policies and legislation that have

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Speaker 1: to do with disabilities, Like there may be there's it

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Speaker 1: on women that are included in these in laws, and

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Speaker 1: there's also data on disabilities and it's included in laws,

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Speaker 1: but just kind of thinking about the two together, it's

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Speaker 1: not super common. And so you know, women with disabilities

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Speaker 1: are all so often left out of the mainstream disability

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Speaker 1: and women's movements. So it's just this a challenge, um

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Speaker 1: to dig up stuff. One. Yeah, women with invisible illnesses

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Speaker 1: in the workplace. Yeah, And I found so estimates up

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Speaker 1: to of illnesses are invisible. And I've talked before on

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Speaker 1: this show about UM, some of the things I'm dealing with.

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't know that they qualified until I started

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Speaker 1: doing the research. Yep, that's the point. Yeah. Um, I've

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Speaker 1: been told by one more than one person that my

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Speaker 1: greatest skill is acting like everything's okay. I'm very cool

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Speaker 1: about that. Where you where are you upset that they

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Speaker 1: said that to you? Or are you like You're probably right?

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Speaker 1: I was kind of. It was one of those weird

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Speaker 1: things where it almost felt like a loss, like I

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Speaker 1: had been pretending so well and for them to realize, like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you are dealing with these other things. And

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Speaker 1: that's something we're going to talk about. Two is the

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Speaker 1: feeling that we've set up and shown time and time

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Speaker 1: again in our media and in our society of failure.

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Speaker 1: I think are being weak, which I have definitely felt. UM.

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Speaker 1: So I have a few and when I've talked about

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Speaker 1: UM chronic PTSD on here, I have migraines UM which

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Speaker 1: I again I didn't know, chronic fatigue one super bad ear,

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Speaker 1: and an eating disorder that comes it like comes and goes.

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Speaker 1: But I feel ashamed when I tell someone I have

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Speaker 1: them honestly, and I feel like, um, they won't believe

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Speaker 1: me that, They'll think I'm weaker, a faker. And I've

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Speaker 1: more than once wished I had some kind of card

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Speaker 1: I could just show someone from a doctor that says, yes, right,

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Speaker 1: she's she needs to legitimateze what you're saying, right, And um,

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Speaker 1: I've had on the other side of that, I've had

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Speaker 1: a doctor tell me, well, you can't be in that

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Speaker 1: much pain because your face is totally fine, or once

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Speaker 1: you're laughing. But I feel like I've been socialized not

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Speaker 1: to show weakness. Also, I laughed generally, and it's like

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Speaker 1: my response to pain. It's a weird thing, but some

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Speaker 1: people do that. I wouldn't say that's weird. It's probably

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Speaker 1: more common than you're making it to be right now,

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Speaker 1: I think so, I think that's a pretty like it's

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Speaker 1: like when you're scared and you laugh after just a reaction.

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Speaker 1: And then on the other other side of the coin,

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Speaker 1: I've had a doctor tell me to quit being such

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Speaker 1: a baby when I did display some distress. What's wrong

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Speaker 1: with being a baby? First of all? So I like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't like babies. I should have turned it around

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Speaker 1: on it. I like that, I'm going to remember that

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Speaker 1: um in my house. I've talked about before tears very much,

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Speaker 1: one where you did not complain or wine, And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that story that we see that we talked about

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Speaker 1: in our other episode around disability, the failure of not

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Speaker 1: getting better, because that scene is like success, right, but

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Speaker 1: that is a problematic, very problematic arc in a way

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Speaker 1: to look at things. But it's also just damaging and incorrect,

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Speaker 1: like you're not going to get better and better or

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Speaker 1: like get through it. Feel like that's something a lot

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Speaker 1: of people say when you tell people that you have

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Speaker 1: a condition, like, oh, you'll get through it, You'll get better,

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Speaker 1: And I can get that, like how that's reassuring, But

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Speaker 1: also the reality is stuff is chronic. A lot of

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Speaker 1: has and you just have to live your life as

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Speaker 1: you see fit while dealing with the issue. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I've definitely seen when I've told people before in the

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Speaker 1: workplace that immediately like what does this mean for me? Look?

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Speaker 1: And then the sort of implication like aren't you gonna

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Speaker 1: get past it? When is the end date for this?

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Speaker 1: How long am I going to have to put up with?

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Speaker 1: Humans are always so worried about time. I like how

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Speaker 1: you said that. That makes it sound like you're you're

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Speaker 1: like a goddess. Oh you mortals, You're foolish time constructs.

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Speaker 1: I think I've revealed too much about myself. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: very cheeks, very cheese m um. Yeah. And to be clear,

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Speaker 1: having a disability is an obstacle to getting work in

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Speaker 1: the first place, right, Yeah about eight and tim people

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Speaker 1: with disabilities in US don't have jobs even though they

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Speaker 1: desire to have jobs. And even then, men with disabilities

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Speaker 1: are more likely to have a job than women with disabilities,

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Speaker 1: which likely contributes to higher poverty rights and women with

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Speaker 1: disabilities and disability and poverty are like, there's correlation there.

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Speaker 1: In general and globally, unemployment rights have the highest among

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Speaker 1: women with disabilities. The un even estimates that seventy women

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Speaker 1: with disabilities are unemployed, and women with disabilities who are

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Speaker 1: employed often earned less than men and women without disabilities.

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Speaker 1: And once women with disabilities do have jobs, they face

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Speaker 1: stuff like pay gaps, unequal hiring and promotion standards, and

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Speaker 1: you know, all those systemic issues that go along with

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Speaker 1: having more than one marginal identity. Yeah, all of those things,

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Speaker 1: according to Hilda, which is the Household Income and Labor

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Speaker 1: Dynamics Australia Data UM. Nearly half of women dealing with

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Speaker 1: chronic illness do not have access to paid holiday leave,

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Speaker 1: compared to thirty seven percent of men. About one third

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Speaker 1: of women with chronic illness surveyed indicated they wanted to

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Speaker 1: work more hours, which seems to suggest that flexible schedules

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Speaker 1: around their illness are hard to come by. The article

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Speaker 1: also talked about the socially acceptable role of a sick

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Speaker 1: person and the manager's desire to do the quote right

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Speaker 1: thing by offering only a lighter so annoying yes, heavy

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Speaker 1: sign d assumptions, assumptions quit doing it. Women with chronic

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Speaker 1: illness also expressed dissatisfaction with advancement opportunities and reported feelings

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Speaker 1: that they were not taken seriously when it came to promotions.

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Speaker 1: They were also more likely to be underpaid a ton

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Speaker 1: of crappy stuff yeah right, um, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: services for people with disabilities, like we have to remember

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Speaker 1: we're made with white men in mind, like thinking of

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Speaker 1: about the term disability in the first place. That's something

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Speaker 1: that's really centered around law. Um. And they only accommodate

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Speaker 1: those with physical invisible disabilities, not as if people with

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Speaker 1: visible disabilities aren't also important, including but really focusing on that.

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Speaker 1: Whereas illnesses and disabilities associated with women have a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time been written off as trivial and self inflicted. Yeah, right, hysterics,

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Speaker 1: you know, the hysterics. And then so the need is

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Speaker 1: to raise the voices of those who are affective about

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Speaker 1: illnesses and disabilities that we can't see, and for more

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Speaker 1: equitable and safe workplaces that recognize and adjust the needs

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Speaker 1: of women with invisible conditions. UM there's this book called

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Speaker 1: Women with Visible and Invisible Disabilities that really um centers

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Speaker 1: the experience of women that have disabilities. Several years old

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Speaker 1: at this point, but there was a phrase that I

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Speaker 1: really like the way they put which is that in

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Speaker 1: a healthy, supportive society, barriers are removed and opportunities for

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Speaker 1: all people are provided without question. And like that's cut,

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Speaker 1: that's obvious, but it's just like that's really important to

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Speaker 1: highlight because it's like, yeah, people have experiences that you

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Speaker 1: don't know about and you've never had, and they also

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Speaker 1: deserve to work in an environment that is supportive to them.

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Speaker 1: So the barriers that are created against women with invisible

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Speaker 1: illnesses when it comes to employment, only served to maintain

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Speaker 1: this cast system we have set up. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of it has to do with a

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about this a little later. Um,

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Speaker 1: A lack of empathy and an unwillingness to think about

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Speaker 1: any experience outside of your own. Yeah. Um, we need

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Speaker 1: to talk about empathy more, and we need to talk

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Speaker 1: about it more and not framing it as this thing

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Speaker 1: that's like you should keep on the hush hush, like

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Speaker 1: it's okay that for us to talk about things like that,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Um, I just wanted to

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Speaker 1: call out a couple of anecdotes that people have had

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Speaker 1: because I feel like it's really important to know that

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Speaker 1: people are dealing, especially since there's not that much data

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Speaker 1: out there on the subject, that people deal with this

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Speaker 1: in real life, and we should listen to people. It's

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Speaker 1: not always about data. The experiences that people themselves have

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Speaker 1: it is very important as well. So there was one

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Speaker 1: MPR article from that told the story of a woman

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Speaker 1: named Carly Metosh Are Carly Medosh I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: to pronounce that one. Hi, Carly who's had Crohn's disease.

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Speaker 1: Since she was thirteen and had recently been diagnosed with

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Speaker 1: faber on mayalgia, and that's something that could be considered

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Speaker 1: a visible illness. And we'll talk about fiber miles a

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Speaker 1: little bit later too, because it is a women's illness,

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Speaker 1: but they has a lot of symptoms like fatigue, UM

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Speaker 1: and chronic pain that go along with it, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people debate over whether it's legiti its medical

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Speaker 1: legitimacy essentially UM. So she said she would sometimes lay

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Speaker 1: on the bathroom for thinking, am I going to die?

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Speaker 1: Should I jump out in front of traffic so that

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Speaker 1: I can die? And she said that everyday task are

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Speaker 1: difficult for her, even though nobody would be able to

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Speaker 1: tell from the outside looking in UM. She's had people

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Speaker 1: judge her first stuff like using a handicapped parking tag,

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Speaker 1: and has had trouble getting accommodations from a potential employer

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Speaker 1: the story set. Another example is from the book Invisible,

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Speaker 1: when Michelle lent her She talks about how she told

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Speaker 1: her boss at a publication she was diagnosed with cancer,

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Speaker 1: and her boss had confronted her demanding to know why

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Speaker 1: she missed her second day of work because yes, she

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Speaker 1: found this out on her first day of work, she

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Speaker 1: disguised as she felt like she was stammering in the

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Speaker 1: face of zero empathy, and apologized for the timing of

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Speaker 1: the disclosure. In response, her boss told her that she

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Speaker 1: needed to be there working in the morning and to quote,

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Speaker 1: leave her cancer at the door, And there was no

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Speaker 1: HR department or person at that magazine for hersh to

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Speaker 1: turn to, which is a thing for a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Unlike us, we have a HR department that we can

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Speaker 1: turn to, but a lot of people have HR, don't

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Speaker 1: have HR departments at all, or the ones that they

401
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 1: do are ineffective or are a problem. They're the ones

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Speaker 1: who say things like leave your cancer at the door. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know personally, um so from people Yeah, not trying

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Speaker 1: to make this yeah, um so. I feel like there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people who have been in situations

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Speaker 1: like the author, like Michelle and Hirsch have been in

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah. And one thing before we move on

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00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: to the next example, I wanted to include that she

409
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Speaker 1: touched on in her book a little bit is the

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Speaker 1: strain it puts on relationships. Um from her book quote,

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Speaker 1: the woman gets a certain type of health issue, the

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Speaker 1: marriage maybe six to ten times more likely to end divorce,

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Speaker 1: and she uses the example of New Gingrich, who has

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Speaker 1: left two wives with illness, one with cancer, one with MSS.

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Speaker 1: And I am my personal experience, I've only reached the

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Speaker 1: point of telling someone in a relationship once about what

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Speaker 1: I was dealing with, and I remember distinctly feeling like

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Speaker 1: I was giving him a weapon to hurt me with.

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Speaker 1: It was a very scary feeling, and I suppose that's

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Speaker 1: what vulnerability is in general. And I felt like I

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Speaker 1: was giving up a card and if we ever broke

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Speaker 1: up or even like state in the relationship, that it

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Speaker 1: could be weaponized against me. And the the work of

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Speaker 1: hiding it from someone you spent so much of your

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Speaker 1: time with it was exhausting and it hurt our relationship,

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Speaker 1: and it was definitely one of the reasons our relationship ended.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's another thing to talk about too,

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Speaker 1: is I remember I've gotten very in my dating life.

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Speaker 1: I've become very um first date, Look, I'm not looking

430
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: for this. And I remember when I first started dating

431
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: this person, I told him in the big getting there

432
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 1: are things that that you don't know and that I

433
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: really struggle with, and they're going to impact our relationship,

434
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: and he was so optimistic about it, and I don't

435
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: blame him for it, but there was that sense of

436
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: we'll get past it, we'll get over it, and I

437
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: was just in the back of my head thinking kind

438
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: of cynically, no, we won't. Yeah, I don't know why.

439
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 1: When you said you you tell a person that this

440
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: is how it is, I just imagine you, like smoking

441
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: a cigarette, like listening here, like I kind of love it. Honestly,

442
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: this one guy a couple of weeks ago, he definitely

443
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: was not expecting that. Um, but I think it's good

444
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: to get it out here. Not that I am in

445
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: any rush for any kind of thing, but I find

446
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: that people around my age are and I just don't

447
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: want to waste any one time. You know, I fail you.

448
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: But moving on from my own personal terrible dating skills,

449
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 1: you have another example, Yeah, I do so. In the

450
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: book Women and Disabilities that I mentioned earlier, there is

451
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: an example of a woman named Caroline Humphrey, and they

452
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: said she was a really great employee, but that she

453
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: had a history of tardiness and absentee is um because

454
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 1: she had grooming and dressing rituals that took a really

455
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: long time, sometimes all day, and she was a medic

456
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: culture inscrib and she suited the hospital that fired her,

457
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 1: claiming that the obsesso trade that drove her to have

458
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: these really long preparation tims. She wasn't accommodated for it

459
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: as was required and is required under the A d A,

460
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: which is the Americans with Disabilities Act, which will get

461
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: into a little bit more later, And a federal judge

462
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 1: threw that out of court, but then a three judge

463
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: panel of the nine US Circuit Court of Appeals decided

464
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: in two thousand one that she had a good point

465
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: and they sent our case back to trial. It kind

466
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: of reminds me of I can't believe I'm bringing this

467
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: up again Scrubs For some reason. I've been making a

468
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: lot of references to Scrubs lately, and I'm kind of

469
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: surprised by it. There's an episode where one of the doctors,

470
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,719
Speaker 1: I think he's a guest rotating doctor played by Mike J. Fox,

471
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: had obsessive compulsive disorder, and it just I think at

472
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: the end, it was a very poignant moment where it

473
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: showed how all of these hoops he was going through

474
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 1: and all the time he was having to a lot

475
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: to kind of he wasn't hiding it, but he was

476
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: trying to make it not impact anyone else. You trying

477
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: to manage it, Yeah, but on other people's expectations. Yes, yes,

478
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: And just seeing his frustration and painting around that, um,

479
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: it stuck with me clearly because that show has not

480
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 1: been on the air from the time. I imagine you

481
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: have a treasure trove of like random moments and TV

482
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: and film in your head. I do. I do that.

483
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: That is what my brain definitely hung on too, of

484
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: all the things that could have And we have some

485
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 1: some stats about how workplaces are so terrible at addressing

486
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: invisible conditions, especially for women. But first we're going to

487
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: pause for a quick break for word from our sponsor,

488
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: and we're back. Thank you sponsor. So there was this

489
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: survey that the Working Mother Research Institute did that show

490
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 1: their employees are pretty crappy when it comes to addressing

491
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: disabilities that they can't see as opposed to visible ones.

492
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 1: And the study was one that broke things down into oh,

493
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: this is what happens to women with disabilities and women

494
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: with invisible illnesses A little bit like there was more

495
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: that you know, could have been done when specifically thinking

496
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 1: about the intersection between women and invisible illnesses. But I

497
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: found that crappiness starts even before someone is highed, like

498
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: during the recruiting process. Generally, people with invisibility said they

499
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: were less likely to have accommodations in place when they

500
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: started their jobs, and we're more likely to have their

501
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: requests for accommodations rejected than people with visible disabilities, and

502
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: obviously people need accommodations. UM and of women with disabilities

503
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: reported being told their accommodations weren't necessary versus just eighteen

504
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: of men. Yeah, so that's a pretty significant difference. Yeah.

505
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: And the survey also found that people with invisible disabilities

506
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: are most frequently turned down on their request for flexible

507
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: work schedules, which we brought up earlier UM and schedule modifications,

508
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: of workspace modifications, things that are in a lot of workplaces,

509
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: easy to work with with a person on and as

510
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: compared to people with visible disabilities, people with invisible disabilities

511
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: report being less satisfied on the job, having greater difficulty

512
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: balancing work and personal life demands, and being less optimistic

513
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: about their ability to advance on work, which we also

514
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: brought up earlier. Yeah, and we are focusing a lot

515
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: on the US here, but I do like bringing in

516
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: data from other countries where we can, so I think

517
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: it just captures more of the story. And the study

518
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: I was mentioning earlier showed the same thing in Australia. Um.

519
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: And I did want to bring up the media because

520
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: again this whole brain. We have started to see more

521
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: on a portrayals of women with invisible illness in our media,

522
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: but for a long time, sick, young attractive women were

523
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: treated as a narrative device in a story about men

524
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: learning to really live life, get out there and appreciate it,

525
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 1: because obviously all things are in service to men, right.

526
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: And I haven't seen most of those movies, but I

527
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: knew exactly what particular genre they were talking about when

528
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 1: I read read about that. Um And according to a report,

529
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: only two point four of films featured a character with

530
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: disabilities across the board, which is very low and unrepresentative. Yeah. Yeah,

531
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: and I would I would hazard a guess that a

532
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: lot of them are inaccurate and possibly offensive. Yeah. And

533
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: I would guess too that a lot, well a lot

534
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: has changed when it comes to mental illness. Yeah, specifically, right, Like,

535
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: that's a huge category. Obviously there are a lot of

536
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: things under that umbrella. But oh, you can't see it

537
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 1: all the time, you know. So a lot has changed

538
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: about the way people per trade mental illness positively, Like

539
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: obviously we have a long way to go. Yeah, but yeah,

540
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: so the law, do you want to get into it? Yeah?

541
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: The law Okay, I'm not gonna um. Like, as you

542
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: were saying, these things applied globally, but um, workplaces are

543
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: very different all over the world, and regulation in workplaces

544
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: are very different all over the world, and even in

545
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 1: the United States. So long, different industries have different policies. Um,

546
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: thank god, we're no longer employing children illegally. We've come

547
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: aways in the way that we've we've done things when

548
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: it comes to employment in in the United States. And

549
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: obviously there's stuff like fights of the minimum wage. But

550
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: one of the things that has been good over the past,

551
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, a few decades, is that is the Americans

552
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: with Disabilities Act, So and do that and a amendments

553
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: to the a d A brought in the definition of

554
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: what a disability is. So the point of the a

555
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: d A is to prohibit discrimination against people with disabilities

556
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: and ensure that people with disabilities have the same employment

557
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: opportunities as those without disabilities. So it requires employers to

558
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: provide quote reasonable accommodations two people with disabilities. And I know,

559
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: like it gets really darkeny sometimes, like you're probably asking

560
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: what are reasonable accommodation It sounds like a lot of

561
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: syllables um, but then include things like allowing for a

562
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: self paced workload, flexible work hours, modifying job responsibilities, and

563
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 1: allowing for leave paid and unpaid during periods of hospitalization,

564
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: assigning and understanding supervisor, getting to empathy there a little

565
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 1: bit um, modifying work hours to attend appointments like ones

566
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: with a psychiatrist, providing easy access to supervision and support

567
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: in the workplace, and providing frequent guidance about job performance.

568
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: So the A d A doesn't explicitly use the words

569
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: invisible conditions, but it does still provide protections for people

570
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 1: with invisible conditions, as it protects people with a quote

571
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one are more

572
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: major life activities of such individual. And I think and

573
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: thinking about that, and like you said, you didn't even

574
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,399
Speaker 1: know until like you read a list that you could

575
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: be considered into something like this. So I think a

576
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: lot of people don't recognize and don't know when they're

577
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: in the workplace when they can be protected because they

578
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: don't know that they're under the protections of the the AD.

579
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of caveats and different situations,

580
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 1: like it comes on a case by case spaces a

581
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 1: lot of the time. And but yeah, it's important to

582
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: know first of all, yes, I can be protected and

583
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: I might be protected under the AD. Yeah, that's important.

584
00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: Step one. Knowledge is power. I I will also say that, um,

585
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: we are really lucky in our office that we have

586
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: a lot of those things. We have flexible work hours

587
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: and we have a pretty good work from home policy

588
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: and that is one of the things I am most

589
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: thankful for at this job. Yeah, and because that's been

590
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: the policy, I don't know what it was like before

591
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: I was here, imagine it was a lot of the same,

592
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: but that's been a policy since I've been here. So

593
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: I feel like that's definitely a privilege because a lot

594
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: of the people that's not there, so they have to

595
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: be the one to create that change. Yeah, so the

596
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 1: burden kind of becomes on the person who the burdens

597
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 1: are already on to to create change within a workplace.

598
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're definitely lucky. Yeah. I if I went

599
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: to a job after this, I feel like I'm spoiled now.

600
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what to do. Yeah, I have to

601
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: be here from what hours? What is clocking in? Exactly? Yeah.

602
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: So the A d A has created a lot of

603
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: meaningful change in society. But just because it exists and

604
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: provides protections for a lot of people doesn't mean that

605
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: people with disabilities still don't face discrimination. In practice, it's

606
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: still hard for people with invisible disabilities to receive protection

607
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: from discrimination and really feel comfortable disclosing. Um they are

608
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 1: conditioned to their employer. So legislation, like you know, things

609
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: like the A d A is important, but so is

610
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: changing the culture around how we treat and think about

611
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,320
Speaker 1: people who have chronic illnesses and disabilities in the workplace. Yeah,

612
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 1: and that's something that's come up several times on the show,

613
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: is our conversation around mental health is a great example

614
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: has been It's been so stigmatizing and we just haven't

615
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: talked about it, and it's something at work you you

616
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: just kept to yourself, And I think that is changing.

617
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: I think it's changing very slowly, but it is changing.

618
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,000
Speaker 1: You know, some type want a revolution. We can't always

619
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:05,360
Speaker 1: get a revolution, right, not always a good example migraines,

620
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: which is one again. I've had migraines since forever and

621
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know that they would fall under this, and um,

622
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: they are very painful. And I remember as a kid

623
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 1: when I would get them, people wouldn't believe me and

624
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:24,640
Speaker 1: they thought he was a kid just trying to get

625
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: out of school. And then you would have a kid

626
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: who is on the floor and vomiting, and I would

627
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: always kind of laugh later because I told you he

628
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: did not believe me. But it is a lot more

629
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 1: women suffer from migraines than men, at least I spose.

630
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 1: The numbers show out of the thirty eight million Americans

631
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: estimated suffer from migraines, seventy three are women. What that

632
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 1: is a lot. I have a lot of friends, a

633
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: lot of female friends that suffer from migraines, and they

634
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: can cause visual issues, dizzeyeness, vomiting, intense pain, and other

635
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: serious symptoms when untreated. Migraines can can make people miss work,

636
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 1: oh for sure. And women may experience migraines more frequently

637
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: because of hormonal changes. Because of misperceptions about the severity

638
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: of migraines and their conflation with common headaches, many women

639
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: face discrimination in the workplace when they get migraines. If

640
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: a woman has to miss work or a meeting because

641
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: of a migraine, and employer may assume she is irresponsible, inconsiderate,

642
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: and unable to plan effectively. But I'm just selling you

643
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: straight up as someone who has them. You're You're lucky

644
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: to be able to move like you're You're probably in

645
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: a dark room just counting down. I always try to

646
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: fall asleep first. That's my fall asleep for what do

647
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: you mean about fall asleep first, Because I get I

648
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: get like a warning. I know it's coming, and so

649
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: if I can fall asleep before it hits, sometimes I'll

650
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: miss it, but not always. I'm horrible at falling asleep

651
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: any But when I was a kid, every now and

652
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: then that would work. I'd beat asleepover Probably I was

653
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: seen as so weird, but I'd be like, I've got

654
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 1: to go bed now, I gotta go to bed now. Now.

655
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: Nobody knows, right, nobody, nobody knows what you do? Um

656
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: so depending on the situation, migraines can qualify woman for

657
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 1: protection under the ADA. So for your migraines to qualify

658
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 1: as a disability under the ADA, you need to show

659
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: that they're serious enough to limit your ability to perform

660
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 1: your job or specific job tests giving your work environment.

661
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: And you also have to demonstrate to your employer that

662
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: you're a quote unquote qualified individual with the disability. And

663
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: if you're applying for a job or even if you're

664
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 1: an existing employee, you have to is your responsibility to

665
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: tell your employer if you need an accommodation. So you

666
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 1: have to disclose it to your employer if you need

667
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: an accommodation, and then you can follow up with a

668
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: request in writing that documents the putations that you have.

669
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: That said, like we said earlier, like just because the

670
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: ad exist doesn't mean things will happen. In practice, your

671
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 1: employer can still let you go. They can still fire

672
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: you even when you're protected under the ADA for different

673
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: reasons um and they can refuse your requests for an

674
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: accommodation as well under certain circumstances. So if your request

675
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: to deny for reasons that weren't explaining for unknown reasons,

676
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: you can file what they call a discrimination charge with

677
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,840
Speaker 1: the US Equal Employment Opportunity to Commission or the e

678
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: o C, or with their state's enforcement agency. So if

679
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 1: they dismissed the charge, you can continue on that process

680
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: and file a lawsuit. So PEA, Like I said earlier,

681
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 1: like a lot of people don't even know they're protected

682
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: under the A d A in the first place, or

683
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: don't think about it. So that's step one in like

684
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: trying to fight any sort of discrimination against women that

685
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: comes that has to do with invisible illness um in

686
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: the workplace. And you know that also probably means that

687
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know the steps to take,

688
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah you know where to start, especially they don't have

689
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: an HR department. Yeah, so yeah, I think it's kind

690
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: of important to just get that out there. I agree,

691
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: And I know that this sounds daunting and stressful, but

692
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: it is something that I think it's worth pursuing. It's

693
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: really we've touched before on how when you're not believed

694
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: and you see your story like delegitimized and invalidated on

695
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: on a public stage or just with people that you

696
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: know how that can be damaging for you. So I

697
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: know that it's scary to get your request approved to

698
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: pursue the process, but I do think it's worth at

699
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: least knowing about Yeah. Yeah, And a lot of people

700
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: who have foiled discrimination charges with the eo C. What's

701
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: two thousand five and two ten did have invisible disabilities. Um,

702
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: so the most commonly sided conditions and those charges that

703
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: were filed were invisible disabilities, according to the analysis that

704
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: researchers did at Cornell University's Employment and Disability Institute. So

705
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: there is hope, there's hope. I mean we can call

706
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: it that. Yeah, I don't know, I don't mean to

707
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: be cynical. Um, yeah, there's there are protections for us

708
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: are a lot of people are using them already. So

709
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,400
Speaker 1: I hope that gives people who feel unprotected at work

710
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of hope too. Yeah. So on what

711
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 1: you were saying just now about it being daunting, UM,

712
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: A huge conversation and thinking about women invisible illness in

713
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 1: the workplace is disclosure. So, as I said, you have

714
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: to disclosed, um, your illness or your disability if you

715
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: want to be if you want to receive accommodations in

716
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: the workplace. And that's not an easy task. All the time,

717
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 1: especially as all men. Yeah, um so if they don't.

718
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: If people don't disclose their disabilities at work, it could

719
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: affect their performance. This is based on data, and their

720
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: colleagues may assume it's a matter of that person's competence.

721
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: So that burden of concealing a disability really creates strain

722
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: and social in work situations that might negatively affect the

723
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: health and well being of a person. And in contrast,

724
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 1: have shown that disclosure relieves the strain of hiding the

725
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: condition which we talked about earlier, like how much labor

726
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: that is, and increases the likelihood that the person will

727
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: find and develop a social support network with others who

728
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:47,360
Speaker 1: might have similar conditions or experiences. Yeah. And I talked

729
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: about in our episode on on CPTSD how having that conversation.

730
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 1: I didn't have to strength to have that conversation. And

731
00:43:56,360 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: I think I'm almost positive that my boss the time

732
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: would have totally been on board. She would have been

733
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 1: a really great helpful supportive system for me. She would

734
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: have worked to make things easier for me. And looking back,

735
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,839
Speaker 1: I wish I had had the strength to do it.

736
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: I didn't, but I wish that I had. But that's

737
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: okay though, you know, like a lot of people aren't

738
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: there yet too, people would connect with you on that level. Yeah,

739
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: And I think that is something to to keep in mind,

740
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: is it's not easy, and don't be too hard on yourself,

741
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: if right. It's kind of like women already have to

742
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: maintain a certain image in the workplace of being twice

743
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: as strong and twice as productive and and having to

744
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 1: disclose something that makes you quote unquote look weaker in

745
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: other people's eyes. Um, it's not an easy task because

746
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: the thing is, people with invisible disabilities still don't disclose

747
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 1: their conditions, especially if they're young and have recently acquired

748
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: the disability. So that's because disclosure still comes with risks,

749
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,560
Speaker 1: and disclosing could harm your competitiveness and workplace relationships. So

750
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,880
Speaker 1: in that survey that we talked about earlier, the Working

751
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: Mother survey of people with invisible illnesses said they were

752
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:23,399
Speaker 1: comfortable discussing their disability with hr or coworkers. So that's

753
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: a lot of people who still don't feel comfortable with it,

754
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: and to have that conversation, you know, you have to

755
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 1: be at a certain point. That's because they still may

756
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: face prejudice or negative judgment for others, Like if you

757
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: think about something like mental illness, like there's still a

758
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: lot of stigma around mental illness, just thinking about the

759
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: way we speak about it, just our lacks language and

760
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: saying you know, things terms that really you know, using

761
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: them willy nilly essentially, just we know that general culture

762
00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: on mental illness isn't accepting. So also disclosure can raise

763
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: questions about whether a disability is quote unquote legitimate. So

764
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: in addition to dealing with the stigma that's associated with

765
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,319
Speaker 1: having a disability, people with invisible disabilities risk being viewed

766
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,759
Speaker 1: as someone who's falsely seeking like some sort of like

767
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 1: gain out of telling people that they have an issue,

768
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: like we want to be pitied or have special treatment. Yeah,

769
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: so other people in the workplace can call them complainers, hypochondriacs,

770
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 1: attention seekers, which can cause even more distress on a

771
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: person who's already dealing with some sort of condition or

772
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: illness in the first place. And even employees with disabilities

773
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,359
Speaker 1: maybe monitored more closely than others or harassed yea, which

774
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. Absolutely, I I don't understand that urge people

775
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 1: feel to have you proved to them that you're not

776
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: trying to face can I don't know, get some kind

777
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: of special treatment that to me doesn't make any sense.

778
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: I feel like in general, people, I really think you

779
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,399
Speaker 1: should do a lot of work to to live your life.

780
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: Like why I go through it? Why would I go

781
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,240
Speaker 1: through all the trouble of pretending to have a disability

782
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 1: like I have, I have issues, I already have issues

783
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: I have to deal with. Why would I make this up? Right?

784
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense? And like you were saying, uh,

785
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: something that I found a common thread I found in

786
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: this research is when people disclose, they do feel that

787
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: they have to work harder to show, like see I

788
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: can still do do my work. And and to your point,

789
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: women already have that. So it's like compound double indemnity.

790
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the right word, yes, but

791
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 1: I think we all understand a right from So when

792
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,959
Speaker 1: women specifically deal with the symptoms of invisible illnesses at work,

793
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: like frequently being like to work because your O c

794
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,680
Speaker 1: DAN took you longer time to prepare like we talked

795
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 1: about earlier, or maybe going to the bathroom often, or

796
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: maybe needing something like a text reader, they face these

797
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 1: gender stereotypes of women being lazy, or being incompetent, or

798
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: being unprofessional, so they may turn to like bias avoidance,

799
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: which is trying to avoid all of those stigmas. So

800
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: they'll just grin and bear it because they're afraid their

801
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 1: needs will be perceived as weaknesses and they may lose

802
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: their jobs. So that's one thing that in the research,

803
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of women are afraid of

804
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: losing their jobs, and a lot of job markets are precarious,

805
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: so it makes a lot of sense. Um, and the

806
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 1: job is probably the thing in the first place that's

807
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: able to help them afford treatment for the condition they get.

808
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: So just think of all the pressure like disclosing puts

809
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 1: on a woman be because of that. It feels like

810
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 1: this is double ledged work, like you're damned if you

811
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,279
Speaker 1: do when you're damned if you don't. Yeah, it's it's

812
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: like a weird never ending the snake eating the tail. Yes,

813
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, because like you're saying, when it

814
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: was all met at the beginning of not talking about

815
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,240
Speaker 1: it in the workplace, but we're talking about the workplace.

816
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: It it's we need to have these conversations more. But

817
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: you can't blame people for not having the conversations more. Yeah,

818
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 1: it's not the job of the people to institute these

819
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: types of changes in the workplace. Um So there are

820
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: a ton of conditions that disproportionately affect young women specifically,

821
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:53,800
Speaker 1: like autoimmune diseases and millennials, which is like eighteen to

822
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: thirty six at the top of this survey. I know

823
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: it changes all the time and different people say different things,

824
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: but I think, specifically and this research are the largest

825
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 1: generation in the U S workforce, so a lot of

826
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: working women are bound to have disabilities. Yet people still

827
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 1: disbelieve young women who have health issues based on assumptions

828
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 1: that young women should be healthy. So that can really

829
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: make disclosure feel kind of like pointless. So even doctors

830
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 1: like you were you brought up earlier, Even doctors disbelieve

831
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: women who say they're sick when they can't see or

832
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: explain issue. So there's a Bitch Media article in which

833
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 1: the author, Kate Horowitz, describes going to the doctor after

834
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 1: she felt weak, fatigued, and dizzy and hot with headaches

835
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: for a while, and her doctor, a guy, a dude,

836
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: told her she had conversion disorder and that she had

837
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: a traumatic event in her childhood that she conferred it

838
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: into performing the illness, like she was making it up.

839
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 1: So she didn't find out that she had hypermobile Eller's

840
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: down Law syndrome until six years later when and she

841
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: was in grad school. And this story, I know a

842
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: lot of women have it, but I can totally relate

843
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 1: to it because I've been through that same situation where

844
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 1: a doctor really discounted something that was real that was

845
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 1: going in my life. So when I was in college,

846
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: I went to the emergency room when I had a

847
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: panic attack, but it was like it happened at the

848
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:26,000
Speaker 1: same time that I really felt like I couldn't breathe,

849
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 1: and so I was telling the doctor, I feel like

850
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: I can't breathe, like there's something going on. And after

851
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: waiting a really long time in the e er which

852
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: I will break from this a bit to say that

853
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 1: women spend more time than men. They wait more time

854
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: than men when they go to the er um, which

855
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 1: goes with this goes back to this idea of thinking

856
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: women's pain isn't as serious. But so, yeah, I saw

857
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 1: the doctor and my mom was there with me, I think,

858
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: and the doctor said he after or no tice. Essentially,

859
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 1: is anything going on in your life right now. It's

860
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 1: probably just anxiety. Gave me an anti anxiety pill that

861
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: made me feel like a marshmallow and just kind of

862
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 1: like sent me on my way, and I was like,

863
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 1: I still feel like I can't breathe. Yeah, I was like,

864
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: maybe that was a panic attack, but I still feel

865
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 1: like I can't breathe. And so it took me going

866
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: to a couple of places and finally coming to this

867
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: black woman doctor who I can't even remember what she

868
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: gave me, but found out that I had some sort

869
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:44,120
Speaker 1: of like swelling or inflammation of the esophagus. So it's

870
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 1: like this is like right online, like with the data,

871
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: so that can be treated, right. So yeah, it's just

872
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 1: it happens all the time. Like I'm not the only

873
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: person that this happens to know. Uh, it's one of

874
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: the most frustrating things to me. We did an episode

875
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: on doctors not believing women, and I think on average,

876
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 1: it takes nine years longer for a woman to get diagnosed.

877
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,720
Speaker 1: I think it was indometrios is specifically, but diagnosis takes longer,

878
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: getting treated in the emergency room takes longer, and women die. Uh.

879
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: The heart diseases. The example specifically they gave um. It

880
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 1: leads to death. The fact that doctors are not taking

881
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,520
Speaker 1: their their pain and their symptoms seriously, right but right,

882
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's a big point. Yeah, it's irreversible. You know,

883
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: the damage that a person didn't do by not diagnosing

884
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: someone earlier. Yeah, I think of all the years that

885
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: you've spent needlessly in pain or struggling with something in

886
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: this case, I lately, I've been struggling with anger outlets

887
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: for anger, and I just can't stop thinking about how

888
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: much we prioritize male pleasure success at the expense of

889
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: female pain, and we legitimize one and we lawed one

890
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 1: and the other is like just shut up, right, just

891
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 1: go away. Anyway, We're going off on a slight tangent,

892
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: but it has been something I've been thinking about a

893
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: lot lately, and it's it's one of the things that

894
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: it makes me angry, like immediately, how quickly we just

895
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: don't believe or even if we like say, oh yeah,

896
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,000
Speaker 1: I remember once. I think I've told this story on

897
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: the show before too. I had like these severe headaches

898
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: where I was passing out and they sent me to

899
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: to a neurologists, and I remember him saying, well, you're

900
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: just gonna have to find a way to live with it.

901
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: So it was like it's acceptable for women to be

902
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: in pain. I think this is sort of like, Okay, well,

903
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: that goes to the idea that women are supposed to

904
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: be strong, like we have baby, we have a high

905
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: pain tolerance, and obviously we can deal with this like

906
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 1: we're superhuman. And that's specifically for about black women. That's

907
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: the stereotype that we face, like we're supposed to be superwomen,

908
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,439
Speaker 1: were supposed to be superheroes. There's myth around us being

909
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: this magical and all powerful and able to take on

910
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: all of this pain and bear the burden of pain

911
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 1: for everyone else. Yeah, So when we think about fibro

912
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: mile just specifically, a lot of women really end up

913
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: what is called catastrophizing about the condition to really emphasize

914
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:47,520
Speaker 1: how serious it is, and people with invisible illnesses in

915
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 1: general really need to repeatedly remind others about their impairments

916
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 1: because not every day is the same. Yeah. I know

917
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,840
Speaker 1: exactly what that is, because again, going back to my migraines,

918
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: sometimes I wanted I wanted it to get worse just

919
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 1: so people would believe me like if I vomited then

920
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, yep, clearly she's not making it up then,

921
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: But that the headache part, the invisible part. People very

922
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 1: ready to dismiss that. So I understand this catastrophe catastrophizing. Yeah,

923
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: that's an interesting I've never seen that before. It is.

924
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: It's a mouthful. And going back to our painful sex

925
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:32,080
Speaker 1: women in pain episode, this has come up time and

926
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 1: time again the issue of not believing women when they're

927
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: in pain. Um when they say they have a disability.

928
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: It comes down to how women look and how they

929
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: present or don't present, and of how the other person

930
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: is taking that in. And there's the added emotional labor

931
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: cost and pressure for folks, especially women who are often

932
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: perceived as weaker, to hide it or yeah again, to

933
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: prove that they deserve the job, that they're working hard

934
00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: through this they're yeah, they're real go getters, and but

935
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,280
Speaker 1: don't go too far because then you're a bitch. Yes,

936
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: And often women who disclose are told to take time

937
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,000
Speaker 1: off to get well. I saw that come up a lot,

938
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 1: which isn't gonna happen if you have a chronic in illness.

939
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: It's in the name um or they might be accused of, yeah, exaggerating,

940
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 1: being a hypochondriac, lazy, complain too much. And yet and

941
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,360
Speaker 1: yet at the same time also are accused of not

942
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,680
Speaker 1: being a better advocate for themselves. People want their cake

943
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 1: and to eat it too. Ah, and yeah, it's it's

944
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: kind of a paradox. If you don't display emotion, you

945
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: aren't believed if you do your hysterical So again, there's

946
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: a lot of tight ropes for bringing up here where

947
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:51,560
Speaker 1: you can't there's no winning, right And there's this study

948
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: that really put it used word that I thought was

949
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,120
Speaker 1: really appropriate is that disclosure can be a sort of

950
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: dance um for women with fiber mile, just specifically in

951
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: the workplace, because in reality, disclosures like a lot more

952
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 1: complicated than just a planned action that's done to get accommodations. Oftentimes,

953
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 1: disclosure is like improvised and it happens in everyday conversations

954
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: when somebody needs something in that moment, and risk are

955
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: taking into consideration and risk avoidance and risk reduction. So

956
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 1: that happened when women in that study needed to explain

957
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 1: like there there are a few instances in which that

958
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: happened in the study for the women and that's when

959
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: they needed to explain their fluctuating workability, when others need

960
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: it reminding about their invisible impairments, and when their work

961
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: relationship changed. So because they can't control how people responded

962
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: to their disclosure, they controlled whether they divulge the stigma

963
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 1: and how much impairment they revealed and how much they

964
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 1: expose themselves to scrutiny. Mm hmm. So there is hoping

965
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 1: this as well, um that more companies are encouraging people

966
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: to disclose their disability. We have a little more for

967
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 1: all of you listeners, but first we have one more

968
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor m h and

969
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. So something that really comes

970
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: up and thinking about this conversation of invisible illnesses and

971
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: disabilities in the workplace is this idea of privilege or

972
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: passing that like having an invisible illness can sometimes function

973
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: as passing as someone without disabilities. So some ways of

974
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: passing can include not disclosing certain information about yourself, or

975
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: like avoiding having adaptive and assistive aids like canes, are

976
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 1: wall curse or wheelchairs, or like only telling a few

977
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: people about your illness or disability so no one can

978
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:12,880
Speaker 1: immediately tell that you have a disability or illness if

979
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 1: it's invisible, so you don't often have to face the

980
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: same stigma or judgment and problematic actions that people with

981
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: readily visible disabilities too. So that's uh that functions that

982
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: as a sort of privilege. But on the other hand,

983
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 1: no one can tell immediately that you have a disability

984
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: or illness, so they may think that the condition can't

985
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 1: be that bad if it even exists at all. So

986
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: it can kind of feel like people with invisible disabilities

987
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: fit in with neither people with disabilities nor people without disabilities,

988
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: which can feel kind of alienating sometimes. And passing quote unquote,

989
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 1: passing can enforce structures that say a person must be

990
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: able body to be treated. Well, yeah, and it's not

991
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: always a choice though, And when it is a choice,

992
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: it's just that because a lot of the time passing

993
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 1: can be a protective strategy, and other times people are

994
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 1: passed or I'm like, it's other people who assume that

995
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:19,840
Speaker 1: a person doesn't have the disability right. In an article

996
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,400
Speaker 1: on the Feminist with Disabilities for a Way Forward blog,

997
01:01:22,680 --> 01:01:26,120
Speaker 1: and author describes the guilt of passing. But sometimes I

998
01:01:26,160 --> 01:01:29,160
Speaker 1: don't feel quite real or as though I'm cheating an

999
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: intruder in someone else's identity with regard to being disabled.

1000
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: That says some nasty consequences. In the past, I've gotten

1001
01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: needs met, either because I can't bear to out myself

1002
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: or because someone doesn't quite think I'm truthful. Passing doesn't

1003
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: mean I'm not struggling to remain standing. While we're talking,

1004
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: I struggle with passing and being passed. Sometimes I try

1005
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: and do it to feel safer, never safe, and lose

1006
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: my integrity. Sometimes I am passed, and it's a mix

1007
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 1: of delight and a loss and a damage. Whatever I do,

1008
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: it's never enough. I'm never enough. I just found that

1009
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 1: quote so impactful just because it's really complicated, Like it's complex,

1010
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:10,000
Speaker 1: and that struggle is a struggle in everyday life for

1011
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,800
Speaker 1: people with invisible disabilities, and it's a struggle in the

1012
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: workplace as well as an extension of that. So it

1013
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: goes back to the idea of disclosure, Like you're already

1014
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,960
Speaker 1: facing these issues that you just spoke about, and on

1015
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: top of that, you're a woman, you know, so you

1016
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: just have to deal with a lot of things. And

1017
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 1: this is something that I feel guilty about all the

1018
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 1: time too, because I have a mess or multiple sclerosis,

1019
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 1: and it doesn't always present itself and everybody it's It

1020
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: really varies wildly from person to person how it presents.

1021
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: And it's also like a progressive disease. So you can

1022
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: be a certain way at one point in your life

1023
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: and invisible and be visible because you're using an assistive

1024
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 1: aid at another point in your life. And I feel

1025
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 1: because I'm at a place where you can't hill at all,

1026
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:05,439
Speaker 1: in certain situations, you can only it sometimes has flare ups,

1027
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: so in that case it can become visible. But because

1028
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: you can't really see my illness, I often feel so

1029
01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: guilty and don't feel like I fit into one group

1030
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: or another. I'm not quite like like the Arthur says,

1031
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 1: whatever I do, it's never enough, I'm never enough because

1032
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 1: I don't feel I have this privilege to where people

1033
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,600
Speaker 1: can't tell. So I'm not necessarily a person with disabilities.

1034
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 1: But in the moments where I am more affected by it,

1035
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:37,840
Speaker 1: in the smaller ways, in the everyday ways, and in

1036
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,680
Speaker 1: the more noticeable ways, and I feel like I should

1037
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:42,880
Speaker 1: say something about this, like I should be louder about

1038
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,040
Speaker 1: this for all the people who have these illnesses that

1039
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: they deal with that nobody can see. So I just thought,

1040
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: you know, this idea of having privilege and not having

1041
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: a privilege at the same time because nobody, when nobody knows,

1042
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: how are they going to address it? So it goes

1043
01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:06,400
Speaker 1: by to that idea of empathy and not assuming. Yeah, absolutely,

1044
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:11,640
Speaker 1: and it is. It is complicated, and I have often

1045
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: felt that way to where I'm almost embarrassed to include myself.

1046
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm suffering enough. Yeah, that's a

1047
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: perpetual problem for women, right, Yeah. Yeah, We're touching on

1048
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,200
Speaker 1: a lot of things in this episode. Um, but we

1049
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,960
Speaker 1: do have some some hopeful notes to end on, some

1050
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: ways to hopefully create change. One, I mean to start

1051
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,400
Speaker 1: off with it, it is a feminist issue and we

1052
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: should treat it as such. Yes, yes, Enshare, people with

1053
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: disabilities in general are not invisible, right because we're speaking

1054
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: specifically about invisible illnesses today, but in general, people with

1055
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: disabilities are invisible in a lot of conversations, including the

1056
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: feminist one, so that should be said. Um. And also

1057
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: we need to educate people on and raise awareness of

1058
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: invisible illnesses. The Invisible Disability Project says there are quote,

1059
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 1: social cultural movement and an educational media project that consciously

1060
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:20,720
Speaker 1: disrupts invisibility imposed upon unseen disabilities at the intersections of race, class, gender,

1061
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 1: and sexuality. So they're just one organization that's bringing visibility

1062
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:30,800
Speaker 1: to people with invisible illnesses. And then employers can take

1063
01:05:30,800 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: steps to address the needs of people with invisible disabilities,

1064
01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: like providing flexibility and centralizing accommodation funding right. And the

1065
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: thing about that too is that a lot of people

1066
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:47,160
Speaker 1: may think that it's expensive to accommodate uh person with

1067
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 1: disabilities needs in the office, and that's not the case,

1068
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 1: um at all a lot of the time, So that's

1069
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 1: not an excuse. And another thing that we can think

1070
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 1: about is disclosure, which we talked about earlier. Removes that

1071
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,120
Speaker 1: emotional labor of bearing the burden of like really juggling

1072
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:07,920
Speaker 1: that illness without having the combinations that you need to

1073
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:11,680
Speaker 1: get your work done, and changing that workplace culture so

1074
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: women feel comfortable just closing as they feel fit. And

1075
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 1: I know, make it sound easy by squeezing it into

1076
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: one line, and it's not that easy, um, But it's

1077
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,919
Speaker 1: something we can continue to work on. And when making recommendations,

1078
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 1: professionals shouldn't imply that disclosure is something that only has

1079
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: positive consequences. They should really think about weighing the risks

1080
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: and learn from their clients about how their workplace environment

1081
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 1: is and the relationships in their workplace as well as

1082
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: what they think about their risk of disclosure. Yeah, it

1083
01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: kind of reminds me of, um the conversation around sexual

1084
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: harassment and reporting to HR and how that can have

1085
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: negative impact on whoever was reporting that. It's not always

1086
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: a positive thing and we need to look at why

1087
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: that is and try to improve that. And another thing

1088
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:11,400
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about a lot lately is destigmatizing

1089
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: mental health and all the conversations around that too. And

1090
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 1: I've just been thinking about how in this conversation and

1091
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: this whole thing, we're penalizing people for being sick for

1092
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 1: something that's out of their control and then telling them

1093
01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: they're lucky to have a job, which is terrible. UM,

1094
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: So that needs to change and talking about this and

1095
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,240
Speaker 1: hopefully bringing it up. I I learned a lot doing

1096
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: the research for this episode, and I I think that

1097
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,400
Speaker 1: a lot of listeners will learn I have learned something

1098
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: hopefully if we've done our job, and I think that

1099
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: is that is an important step that is Step one

1100
01:07:55,720 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: is to start talking about this and to realize how

1101
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 1: how many people are impacted for these things. I agree

1102
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:11,920
Speaker 1: with you, Annie, Yeah, thank you, thank you yeah. Creating

1103
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 1: a better workspace for everyone or workplace and workspace for

1104
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: women with disabilities creates a better workplace in general. It does.

1105
01:08:23,320 --> 01:08:28,400
Speaker 1: It's important to remember that this isn't some isolated issue

1106
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:33,000
Speaker 1: that only revolves around certain sets of people. Like the

1107
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: work that we need to do and creating a better

1108
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 1: workplace for women with disabilities is work that improves industries

1109
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: and workplaces in general. And I would imagine if I

1110
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:50,280
Speaker 1: was running a company, I would want I would be

1111
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: a good boss, and I would want people to be happy.

1112
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:54,720
Speaker 1: But also I would imagine you would want people to

1113
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,040
Speaker 1: be the most productive and best they can be, right.

1114
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 1: And the irony of that is that people think when

1115
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,320
Speaker 1: they I'm generalizing, but a lot of employers think that

1116
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: when they hire people who have disabilities, are when a

1117
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 1: person with disabilities discloses their condition, that that means they're

1118
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: going to be less productive. And that perspective needs to

1119
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:19,120
Speaker 1: switch to to what can I do as an employer

1120
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:22,080
Speaker 1: to make sure that all of my employees are the

1121
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 1: most productive that they can be and it really it's

1122
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,559
Speaker 1: not difficult. It doesn't have to be right, doesn't, It

1123
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: really doesn't. That brings us to the end of this episode.

1124
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Eaves for being a co host

1125
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: with me this week. Thank you for inviting me onto

1126
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,720
Speaker 1: this warm, lovely I don't know what I'm trying to say.

1127
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: Thank you for inviting me onto Sminty. It's been it's

1128
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:55,799
Speaker 1: been really enlightening to talk about this, and it feels

1129
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: like a privilege to be able to talk about this

1130
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,840
Speaker 1: in the workplace, and and I'm happy that we got

1131
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: to do it today. I am too, And please come

1132
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 1: back any time, pitch me any of your ideas. We'd

1133
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: love to have you again, and we would also love

1134
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 1: to hear from you listeners. You can email us at

1135
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com. You can

1136
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:25,160
Speaker 1: find us on social media on Twitter at mom Stuff

1137
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: Podcast and on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You.

1138
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,600
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening, and thanks as always to

1139
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 1: reproducer Andrew Howard.