WEBVTT - Katy Vine: The Problem with Erik 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.400 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.760 So when Eric asks how much does something like that cost? 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.840 He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand? Is 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.279 that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.119 five hundred thousand would do it. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:35.159 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.920 in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.800 podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.840 research for my many audio and book projects has taken 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.120 me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:53.880 with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.320 and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.520 crime cases. This is about what the choices writers make, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.000 both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:10.640 the unpublished details behind their stories. For this week's episode, 0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.199 we traveled to my hometown of Austin, Texas. An iconic 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.160 local business is embroiled in a murder for higher case 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.440 that attracts national attention. Why did Eric mand hire someone 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.640 to kill two people? Katie Vine from Texas Monthly tells 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:30.679 me about her podcast, The Problem with Eric. Well, let's 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:33.520 talk about this story. First of all, how did you 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.520 get roped into doing this story? Did you bring it 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.880 to the folks at Texas Monthly or was it pitched 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:39.840 to you? 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.480 Now, we were lucky enough at Texas Monthly that Anna Worrel, 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.840 who's a freelance podcast producer, came to us with this story. 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.360 She's an Austin native and was working in the film 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.240 world out in Los Angeles and her dad kept sending 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:56.160 her updates on this case, sent her clippings and stuff, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.400 and so she got interested and brought it to us, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.080 and I'm really glad that she did. You know, some 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:04.480 of the folks in the podcast studio brought it to 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:07.800 me and I think a week later we were on 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.960 a plane to Nashville, shaking hands in the airport. Hi, 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:13.200 I'm going to be basically living with you for the 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:13.959 next three weeks. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:14.720 Wow. 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:19.520 We've had several Texas Monthly podcasts featured on Wicked Words, 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:22.480 but I always feel like, you know, they're Texas stories. 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.920 I always feel like they're small towns. But this is 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.880 not this is where we are, this isn't Austin. So 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.600 before we get into the story, is it different working 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.520 in a bigger city have a different feel than maybe 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.000 like a more small town story. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:43.240 Yes, although you can kind of find the slice of 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:46.639 the big city that is basically a small town. And 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.840 so while the crime stars that I've done in small towns, 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:55.440 you are looking for that person who knows everybody to 0:02:55.560 --> 0:03:00.680 introduce you around. We didn't have that necessary here. But 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.400 we could find people who were in Eric Mond's world, 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:10.079 which is its own little universe, if that makes sense. Yeah, 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.600 So like the Austin Country club and you know, the 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:17.720 world of car dealerships, those are little worlds that we 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:23.120 could tap into and let them explain the culture in 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:23.960 which he'd grown up. 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.799 Let's just start from the beginning with the dealership. It's 0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:30.760 Charles Montyota, which I have heard about I feel like 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.200 my entire life. I don't know if that's true, but 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:37.160 it's an institution, a car dealership here in Austin. Tell 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:40.440 me about the origin of that car dealership, since there's 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.560 so much money involved, and then we'll get into a 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:45.800 little bit about how Eric kind of grew up and 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:48.360 you know, this must have shaped some of the decisions 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.360 that he made. But tell me about the car dealership first. 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.560 Sure, the Mond name has it definitely been blasted on 0:03:56.800 --> 0:04:00.680 TV and radio ads in Central Texas for decades. Eric 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.520 Mond's grandpa, Charles Moond, founded the first Mond dealership in 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.080 nineteen fifty seven, and over the years, that company, as 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:12.480 you say, became this empire, the total Loston institution. It 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:16.960 grew over the decades to include Volkswagen and eventually Toyota. 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.599 As a grandson. Then Eric is one of the heirs 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.440 to the empire with forty million dollars, high profile enough 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.480 that anyone could google him and find out that he's 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.479 got money. 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.200 So we have Charlesmond, and this is a huge empire. 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:39.320 And is Eric what is he like? What's the impression 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.039 you get from him? Is he working in the dealership 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.360 or is he sort of the playboy kind of guy. 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.279 I don't know that he was a playboy necessarily, but 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:53.360 he was married to a former dealership office worker. They'd 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:57.680 raised two kids. They had a giant mansion next to 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.839 the golf course at the country club. He had a 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.320 close group of friends who he played golf with all 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.919 the time. One guy who we talked to, who he 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:10.720 worked with at the Volkswagen dealership, said that he basically 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.080 would sit around and dip snuff and make night comments 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.360 like he just you don't get the impression from talking 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:20.440 to the people who we were able to talk to 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.719 that he was a terrifically hard worker or had a 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:28.280 ton of insight into the dealership itself, as his granddad 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:32.240 certainly did. I mean, people talk about Charles Mont his granddad, 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:35.360 as if he were sort of legendary figure who'd come 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:39.919 from really nothing in East Texas and got to Austin 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:44.880 and built this from scratch. That's sort of who Eric is. 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.800 He's sort of living in the shadow of somebody who 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:52.440 was able to have the rags to riches legacy, and 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:54.240 he's just sort of like kid who's born at the 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:54.880 Silver Spoon. 0:05:56.680 --> 0:06:01.279 Was Charles Mond alive when Eric was growing up? Oh yeah, okay, 0:06:01.480 --> 0:06:03.320 So were they close? I mean, how did they view 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:04.160 each other? Do you know? 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:08.920 I don't know what the relationship was between Eric and 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:13.720 Charles Moond. I only know the relationship between Dougmond was 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:19.120 Eric's father, and Charles Wond because there's a story that 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.680 we were told over and over again about a knife 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.320 fight had occurred at the Austin Gundry Club. Who between 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.279 father and son? So Charles Wond I don't know who 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.360 pulled the knife first, what kind of knife it was, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.599 what it was about. But a lot of people said, oh, yeah, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:35.920 did you hear about the knife fight? 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:39.360 Do we know anything about Doug and Eric and how 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:40.080 they got along? 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:42.800 Very tight? Doug and Eric were tight. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.440 Okay, so you all reached out to basically, it sounds 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.839 like on his side as many people as possible, with 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:52.919 the exception of the kids. You tried the wife. Is 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:53.640 the wife around? 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:56.080 Oh sure, yeah, that was a no go. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.480 Yeah, nobody wanted to participate. Yeah, but you have to try. 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:04.039 I meanjournalists, you have to try. So when we start 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:08.719 moving through this story, Eric sounds lazy and not ambitious. 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.920 Does he seem like a good father, good husband? Do 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:13.480 you have any impression about that. 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:18.000 By March of twenty twenty, when the main events of 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.240 this story occur, Eric and his wife are already on 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:24.880 the brink of a divorce. So, you know, I think 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:29.440 if she didn't have suspicions then that he was having, 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.440 you know, affairs or seeing escorts, she certainly knew it 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:38.280 a little later because he had Charlie Sheen's assistant, who'd 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.640 become a someone who kind of was hanging around the dealership. 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:46.040 He had him forge a light detector, saying that Eric 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.760 wasn't being unfaithful. So you make make of that, would 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:50.040 you will? 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.320 Okay, so he is a philanderer. It sounds like she 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:59.679 wants to divorce him. When does this pivotal affair come in? 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.840 That is the crux of this whole story. It sounds like, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.920 what do we know about what happens with that march? 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.200 Maybe it's maybe it's late February of twenty twenty. Eric 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.200 is going to go to Nashville, where his son is 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:18.560 in college, and during that visit, he texts an escort 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:22.040 whom he's seen once before. They seemed familiar with each 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:26.480 other according to the texts, and they set up a 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.720 night to meet, and all the text evidence shows they 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:33.800 did meet, and then he made arrangements with another escort 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:37.040 for the following night. I did not find evidence whether 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.800 or not that actually happened, but he was trying to 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.280 at least set up a date with a separate escort. Initially, 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.800 that was that, and he came back to Austin and 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.040 figured everything was fine. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.439 So this was not unusual for him hiring escorts. I mean, 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:54.040 do you get that impression? 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.640 I don't know. I can only say that he definitely 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:02.520 had seen this particular escort at least once before. Leila 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.600 Loved was the name that she used. Her real name 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:06.480 was Holly Williams. 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:10.640 So he returns to Austin after seeing his kid at college. 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.520 And you said, this was about late February, So we 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.920 are on the cusp of the pandemic right there. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.040 You're coming right up to the edge of the pandemic. 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.600 Yeah, yeah, maybe this was like New York things happening 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.040 in New York at this point. And then okay, and 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.239 the pandemic hits. When is the next incident that happens? 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.520 And I know that it involves Holly. What happens next? 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.640 This man is on the edge. He's a hiring escorts, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.520 but he's on the edge. He's trying to get a divorce. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.000 He's got a lot of money. First of all, before 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:42.080 you answer that, what is the divorce going to be? Like? 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:44.720 Is she going to get a lot of money out 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:46.560 of him? Because of his money? 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.160 This has always been something that has confused me because 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:54.520 apparently they had a prenup and according to testimony from 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.800 his attorney who wrote up the prenup, that was a 0:09:57.800 --> 0:09:59.920 as I guess he would say, a very good prenup, 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.400 and so he wasn't really in danger of losing a 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.800 lot of money in that way. I think it was 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:12.440 about his motivation was not financial necessarily. The next thing 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.160 that happens is Holly Williams. It turns out as a boyfriend. 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:21.920 The boyfriend is this nanke you redhead named Bill Landway 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.760 from the suburbs of Nashville. They started going to DM 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:30.800 parties a lot together and they got very close, and 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:33.720 then he found out she was in escort. I guess 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.640 he didn't know that rightway, he got extremely possessive and jealous. 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.280 Also wasn't making a lot of money. It sounds like 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.120 at the time he was delivering Amazon packages a little bad, 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.679 and he was dealing cards for high end poker games, 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.760 but not really anything steady. And he started to get 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.400 a hold of her phone when she wasn't around, and 0:10:56.360 --> 0:11:00.160 digging up her client list, and in one case he 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:05.880 found a Vanderbilt radiologist whom he threatened. He didn't extort 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.240 the radiologist, he was just threatening him and said, you know, 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.560 if you see Hollywood's again and I'll tell your wife. 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.640 He also found Eric's number and he must have done 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.640 enough googling. Doesn't take much to figure out that Eric 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.320 Land has a lot of money. This time he started 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.440 asking for money. I don't know if there were others, 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:28.360 if there were others that didn't come into evidence in the. 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:32.240 Trial, but we know of at least those two that 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.360 Bill Lanway was reaching out to Eric as most people 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.439 would in this situation, completely breaked out. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:44.760 So he doesn't extort money from the radiologist, but he 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:49.720 does from Eric. So he makes this decision. And what 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:52.199 is he doing? So he's calling Eric and he says, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:53.640 You're going to need to give me money or I'm 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.120 going to tell everybody that you've hired an escort. Is 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.200 that pretty much what ends up happening. How much? Which 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.520 is he demanding twenty five thousand dollars? You would think 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:04.840 you would ask for more money. 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:10.559 Everybody assumes that he mistyped it, but he wrote at 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.320 one point twenty five hundred, even lower twenty five hundred 0:12:14.320 --> 0:12:16.880 to make all your problems go away, right, But Eric 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.840 and the people around Eric testified that twenty five thousand 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.720 was the number that was being batted around. So on 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.600 the phone and however else Eric was getting this information, 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.640 it was clear to him anyway that it was twenty 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:30.200 five thousand. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:34.640 Now does Bill's girlfriend, the escort Holly, does she know 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.040 that this is happening. 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.720 Or no, There's been no evidence that she knew about 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:39.320 any of this. 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.120 What are the instructions that Bill has given Eric? Is 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:46.000 this like a wire transfer or what's supposed to happen? 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:48.840 I don't remember what the method was supposed to be. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:53.560 But Eric decides instead of doing that, he talks to 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.760 one of his colleagues at the dealership, and that guy 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.800 gets in touch with somebody named Gil Pulled. Gil Paled 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.760 is a new security worker at the dealership. He claimed 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:10.480 to have served in the Masade, the Israeli intelligence agency. 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:14.240 He has built like I mean, just like a brick, 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.440 and so Gil suggested to Eric that he go to 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.880 the police, but Eric said he didn't want to be embarrassed, 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.560 and so Gil told him, Okay, I got it. 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:25.360 I'll take care of it. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:30.240 He then goes to another guy in Austin, not far 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:34.360 from his house. This guy, Brian Brockway, lives nearby, and 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:38.480 he said, what I can do for you is, you know, 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:41.320 just build this, do a surveillance operation in Nashville and 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.080 just kind of spoke around. At this point. They just 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.280 know that it has something to do with Layla love, right, 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.240 and that's kind of all they have to go on. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.680 And so the idea is Brian Brockway will get a 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.640 little team together and they'll go to Nashville and sniff 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.520 it out. And that was all that it was supposed 0:13:58.520 --> 0:13:58.720 to be. 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:04.480 I feel like there's some weird disconnect with this part 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.600 of the story because twenty five thousand is not a lot, okay, 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:11.040 And then I'm thinking, okay, twenty five thousand. Of course, 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.719 we've already said this over and over again. He can 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.960 spend this. This is no big deal. He's getting a divorce, 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.960 I mean basically, right. I mean he's sort of the 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.640 relationship is essentially over. He's not trying to save a relationship. 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.640 He has adult children, he doesn't have little children. Is 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.880 it really sort of this shame? I know he's very 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.120 close to his father. You really think he's driven by 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:36.440 like the shame the public ridicule of this coming out. Somehow, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.840 it just seems so extreme to then hire eventually a 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:40.920 hitman to do this. 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.960 Well, I think it's important to remember that he didn't 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.920 go into this hiring a Hitman, right. He just went 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.360 into it, hiring somebody to look into it, and then 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.360 it just sort of escalates. I can't say exactly that 0:14:56.400 --> 0:15:00.080 it got out of his control because he's paid for 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.240 but he just kind of kept signing off on you 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.600 want to do what sure, go do that yes, And 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:10.240 so the guys on the ground could not seem to 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:14.160 get Holly or Bill Landway to respond. They would knock 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:15.760 on the door, they would text. 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:16.440 You know. 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:23.400 The guys who landed were very experienced. Brian Brockway had 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.360 deployed all of the world conducting special ops on behalf 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.720 of the US Marines, and he hired this kid, Adam, 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.400 a twenty nine year old former marine. There were two 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:37.680 other guys who were involved, one whom we call Red 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:41.640 because he has had to keep his name out of 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.280 the press because he's still concerned that some of these 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:48.280 guys and their friends may come after him. And then 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:52.280 there's a guy named Tony Rapinsky who landed got one 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.120 whiff of the situation and was like, I'm out of here. 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.800 Wow, this is all bad. 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:03.040 This can only go in bad directions based on the 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.040 things that I'm seeing. In fact, like when he sat 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.000 down to give his testimony. I remember one of the 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:11.000 defense attorneys. Eric's defense attorney asked, you know, what were 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:13.360 you most afraid of when you landed in Nashville, and 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:17.360 he just said stupidity and that basically said it all. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.160 Like I can really testify. After that, it was kind 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.240 of like, Okay, yeah, that loves it up. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.320 But I mean, the more people you involved in this conspiracy, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.720 the bigger. Well, of course, I'm thinking this is way 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.080 more than twenty five thousand. I'm assuming this is really 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:33.720 he's going to be on the whole as we're going along. 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.040 But at the same time, I'm thinking, you know, the 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:39.920 more people that you're adding in, the riskier it is. 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:43.240 But it sounds like he really was just scared, right. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:45.960 I think so he was out of his element. If 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:49.640 he had dealt with blackmail before, it wasn't this type 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.600 of black mail, I don't. I mean, I don't have 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.440 any evidence that he'd ever dealt with it before, but 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:57.280 I don't know, certainly not this type, bro, because his 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.520 reactions are give up a whiff of. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:02.440 Desperation, Yeah, very extreme. 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.800 Adam, who was the youngest, you know, the group, the 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:10.480 twenty nine year old, starts making comments about he could 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.119 get rid of this problem for fifty or sixty. K 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:18.520 Red thinks it's a joke at first, but then starts thinking, 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.520 this kid's loose cannon. He's really immature. Adam goes to 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.199 Walmart and buys cable tize and burlap, and you know, 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.879 the rest of the guys are like, what is this 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:32.760 kid up to? But then Brian after Red and Tony 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:37.119 Rapinsky leave Nashville and it's just Brian and Adam and 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:41.800 it's coming to this sort deadline point for Eric. They 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.000 finally take that idea to Gil Pullett and say, what 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:45.760 if we just take. 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.560 Them out, both of them. They're talking about Bill and Holly. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.160 Yeah, at first they talk about just Bill, but then 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:55.919 based on something that was so nothing. I mean, I 0:17:55.920 --> 0:18:01.119 think they claimed that they saw Holly walking around with 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.520 like a bag from a home depot or office depot 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.760 or something, and based on just like that said, oh, 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:10.960 I think she's spending a lot of money. We don't 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.400 know if they just wanted to cover their bases, if 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.359 they wanted to do a thorough job, if they really 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.439 just needed the money and so they needed kind of 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:23.880 to amp up the threat. Whatever the case is, they 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.840 brought it to Gil. Gil brought it to Eric. It's 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.679 then I think the evening of March eleventh, Eric is home. 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.639 His landline rings a voice he doesn't recognize, which is 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.760 Bill says, you have till eight o'clock tonight or he's 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.800 gonna tell Eric's wife everything. And then at eight o'clock 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.640 he texts, it's eight o'clock and I'm going to follow 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:47.119 up through with everything and thank you. It's just weird. 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.359 That night, Gil takes the idea to Eric and he 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.800 drives up outside of Eric's house and he says, you know, 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:59.320 this is what Adam and Brian propose edm and Brian 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.879 had proposed course to take them out for sixteen k each, 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.840 so one hundred and twenty total that Eric would be 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.880 paying out. But that's not what Gila Led told Eric 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:16.520 because gilad Led was desperate for cash himself. Gil needed 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.160 I think he had eleven dollars in the bank at 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.119 that moment. He had two little kids and was having 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.520 trouble with his wife's business. He could see, you know, 0:19:25.640 --> 0:19:29.040 COVID was coming, his wife had a salon. Everything was 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:30.880 shutting down. I mean, I think there was just sort 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.920 of panic in the air. And so when Eric asks 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.480 how much does something like that cost. He follows up with, 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.120 you know, five hundred thousand Is that sound about right? 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:45.280 And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand wouldn't 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:45.520 do it. 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:46.320 Wow. 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.359 Did you find out or did it come out during 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.600 any of the trial. Did you find out if Eric 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:55.920 had told anyone else about this in his family other 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.479 than you know, talking to all these goons. Did his 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.119 dad know? Did anybody know if they did? 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.800 That was never revealed in court. 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.880 So tell me how this starts to unfold. Eric says, okay, 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.879 half a million's fine? And what happens after that? You 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.520 have all of these players involved, who all sound like 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:15.199 goons to me. 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.480 Well again, by this time, it's just Adam and Bryan 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.440 on the ground. That night, they just decide they're going 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:28.080 to surprise Bill and Holly in the parking lot outside 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.880 of Holly's apartment, which is what they do. They kidnap 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.800 Holly first, They shoot Bill dead, keep him in the car, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.439 then keep her alive in the back seat. One of 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.760 the special ops guys drives Holly's car with Bill and 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.560 Holly in it to a site, an off site location, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.160 and then the other special ops worker takes a rental 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:54.320 car behind Holly's car to follow them as sort of 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:55.440 the getaway car. 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:59.399 And Holly is alive. Does anybody talk about what hery? 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.400 I'm sure she terrified and has no idea what's happening, 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:03.640 but her boyfriend is dead. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:09.040 We do find out later in undercover recordings that they 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:13.160 were possibly surprised. It gets a little confusing, like, on 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.879 one hand, you hear from gil Paled that yes, it 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.960 was the plan was always Holly and Bill. But when 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:22.439 Brian Brockway is telling the story to Red in an 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:26.800 undercover recording that the FBI set up later, he tells 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.280 read that they were shocked all of a sudden, Oh 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.200 my god, it's both of them. So now we've got 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.679 two of them. And they were kind of telling Holly 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.120 it's fine, it's fine, We're not after you, and then 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:41.879 ended up killing her in the back seat just to 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:43.080 kind of cover their tracks. 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.120 Where do they end up putting the bodies? So they 0:21:46.160 --> 0:21:48.840 have these these two adults. Are they driving out of 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:49.960 town or what are they doing? 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.840 They drove kind of where there was a construction site. 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.720 It's not far from Hollway's apartment. They just drove kind 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:59.359 of around the corner where there was this little construction site, 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:03.400 and they made it look like Holly's car had kind 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.320 of just driven down into a ditch to hit a tree. 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:09.159 On the first glance, it looked like it could have 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.480 been just a car crash, except that when you look 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.200 in the car itself, there's nobody in the driver's seat. 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.000 I mean, one person is in the back seat and 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:19.800 the other person is literally like, I don't know why 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.800 upside down. Bill was upside down in the passenger seat. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.720 Wow, And of course they've been shot once you start 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.919 looking at it. Okay, who makes the discovery of these 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:31.680