1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 2: So when Eric asks how much does something like that cost? 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: He follows up with, you know, five hundred thousand? Is 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: that sound about right? And Gil says, yeah, I think 5 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 2: five hundred thousand would do it. 6 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 7 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 8 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 9 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: research for my many audio and book projects has taken 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 11 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 12 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 13 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: crime cases. This is about what the choices writers make, 14 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: both good and bad, and it's a deep dive into 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: the unpublished details behind their stories. For this week's episode, 16 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 1: we traveled to my hometown of Austin, Texas. An iconic 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: local business is embroiled in a murder for higher case 18 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: that attracts national attention. Why did Eric mand hire someone 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: to kill two people? Katie Vine from Texas Monthly tells 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: me about her podcast, The Problem with Eric. Well, let's 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: talk about this story. First of all, how did you 22 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: get roped into doing this story? Did you bring it 23 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 1: to the folks at Texas Monthly or was it pitched 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: to you? 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: Now, we were lucky enough at Texas Monthly that Anna Worrel, 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: who's a freelance podcast producer, came to us with this story. 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: She's an Austin native and was working in the film 28 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: world out in Los Angeles and her dad kept sending 29 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: her updates on this case, sent her clippings and stuff, 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: and so she got interested and brought it to us, 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: and I'm really glad that she did. You know, some 32 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 2: of the folks in the podcast studio brought it to 33 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: me and I think a week later we were on 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: a plane to Nashville, shaking hands in the airport. Hi, 35 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to be basically living with you for the 36 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: next three weeks. 37 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 38 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: We've had several Texas Monthly podcasts featured on Wicked Words, 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: but I always feel like, you know, they're Texas stories. 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: I always feel like they're small towns. But this is 41 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: not this is where we are, this isn't Austin. So 42 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: before we get into the story, is it different working 43 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: in a bigger city have a different feel than maybe 44 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: like a more small town story. 45 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: Yes, although you can kind of find the slice of 46 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,639 Speaker 2: the big city that is basically a small town. And 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: so while the crime stars that I've done in small towns, 48 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 2: you are looking for that person who knows everybody to 49 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: introduce you around. We didn't have that necessary here. But 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: we could find people who were in Eric Mond's world, 51 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: which is its own little universe, if that makes sense. Yeah, 52 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 2: So like the Austin Country club and you know, the 53 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: world of car dealerships, those are little worlds that we 54 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: could tap into and let them explain the culture in 55 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 2: which he'd grown up. 56 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: Let's just start from the beginning with the dealership. It's 57 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: Charles Montyota, which I have heard about I feel like 58 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: my entire life. I don't know if that's true, but 59 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: it's an institution, a car dealership here in Austin. Tell 60 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: me about the origin of that car dealership, since there's 61 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: so much money involved, and then we'll get into a 62 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: little bit about how Eric kind of grew up and 63 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: you know, this must have shaped some of the decisions 64 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: that he made. But tell me about the car dealership first. 65 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 2: Sure, the Mond name has it definitely been blasted on 66 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: TV and radio ads in Central Texas for decades. Eric 67 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: Mond's grandpa, Charles Moond, founded the first Mond dealership in 68 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven, and over the years, that company, as 69 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 2: you say, became this empire, the total Loston institution. It 70 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: grew over the decades to include Volkswagen and eventually Toyota. 71 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 2: As a grandson. Then Eric is one of the heirs 72 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 2: to the empire with forty million dollars, high profile enough 73 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: that anyone could google him and find out that he's 74 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,479 Speaker 2: got money. 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: So we have Charlesmond, and this is a huge empire. 76 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: And is Eric what is he like? What's the impression 77 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 1: you get from him? Is he working in the dealership 78 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: or is he sort of the playboy kind of guy. 79 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 2: I don't know that he was a playboy necessarily, but 80 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 2: he was married to a former dealership office worker. They'd 81 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 2: raised two kids. They had a giant mansion next to 82 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: the golf course at the country club. He had a 83 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: close group of friends who he played golf with all 84 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: the time. One guy who we talked to, who he 85 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 2: worked with at the Volkswagen dealership, said that he basically 86 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: would sit around and dip snuff and make night comments 87 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 2: like he just you don't get the impression from talking 88 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: to the people who we were able to talk to 89 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: that he was a terrifically hard worker or had a 90 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 2: ton of insight into the dealership itself, as his granddad 91 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: certainly did. I mean, people talk about Charles Mont his granddad, 92 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: as if he were sort of legendary figure who'd come 93 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: from really nothing in East Texas and got to Austin 94 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: and built this from scratch. That's sort of who Eric is. 95 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 2: He's sort of living in the shadow of somebody who 96 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: was able to have the rags to riches legacy, and 97 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 2: he's just sort of like kid who's born at the 98 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: Silver Spoon. 99 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: Was Charles Mond alive when Eric was growing up? Oh yeah, okay, 100 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: So were they close? I mean, how did they view 101 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: each other? Do you know? 102 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 2: I don't know what the relationship was between Eric and 103 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: Charles Moond. I only know the relationship between Dougmond was 104 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: Eric's father, and Charles Wond because there's a story that 105 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 2: we were told over and over again about a knife 106 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: fight had occurred at the Austin Gundry Club. Who between 107 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 2: father and son? So Charles Wond I don't know who 108 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 2: pulled the knife first, what kind of knife it was, 109 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: what it was about. But a lot of people said, oh, yeah, 110 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: did you hear about the knife fight? 111 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: Do we know anything about Doug and Eric and how 112 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: they got along? 113 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: Very tight? Doug and Eric were tight. 114 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so you all reached out to basically, it sounds 115 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: like on his side as many people as possible, with 116 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 1: the exception of the kids. You tried the wife. Is 117 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: the wife around? 118 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, that was a no go. 119 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody wanted to participate. Yeah, but you have to try. 120 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: I meanjournalists, you have to try. So when we start 121 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: moving through this story, Eric sounds lazy and not ambitious. 122 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: Does he seem like a good father, good husband? Do 123 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: you have any impression about that. 124 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: By March of twenty twenty, when the main events of 125 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: this story occur, Eric and his wife are already on 126 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: the brink of a divorce. So, you know, I think 127 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: if she didn't have suspicions then that he was having, 128 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 2: you know, affairs or seeing escorts, she certainly knew it 129 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 2: a little later because he had Charlie Sheen's assistant, who'd 130 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 2: become a someone who kind of was hanging around the dealership. 131 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: He had him forge a light detector, saying that Eric 132 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 2: wasn't being unfaithful. So you make make of that, would 133 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 2: you will? 134 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: Okay, so he is a philanderer. It sounds like she 135 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:59,679 Speaker 1: wants to divorce him. When does this pivotal affair come in? 136 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: That is the crux of this whole story. It sounds like, 137 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: what do we know about what happens with that march? 138 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: Maybe it's maybe it's late February of twenty twenty. Eric 139 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: is going to go to Nashville, where his son is 140 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: in college, and during that visit, he texts an escort 141 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: whom he's seen once before. They seemed familiar with each 142 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: other according to the texts, and they set up a 143 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 2: night to meet, and all the text evidence shows they 144 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: did meet, and then he made arrangements with another escort 145 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: for the following night. I did not find evidence whether 146 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: or not that actually happened, but he was trying to 147 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 2: at least set up a date with a separate escort. Initially, 148 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: that was that, and he came back to Austin and 149 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: figured everything was fine. 150 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: So this was not unusual for him hiring escorts. I mean, 151 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: do you get that impression? 152 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: I don't know. I can only say that he definitely 153 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: had seen this particular escort at least once before. Leila 154 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 2: Loved was the name that she used. Her real name 155 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: was Holly Williams. 156 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: So he returns to Austin after seeing his kid at college. 157 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: And you said, this was about late February, So we 158 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: are on the cusp of the pandemic right there. 159 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: You're coming right up to the edge of the pandemic. 160 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe this was like New York things happening 161 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: in New York at this point. And then okay, and 162 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,239 Speaker 1: the pandemic hits. When is the next incident that happens? 163 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: And I know that it involves Holly. What happens next? 164 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: This man is on the edge. He's a hiring escorts, 165 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: but he's on the edge. He's trying to get a divorce. 166 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: He's got a lot of money. First of all, before 167 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: you answer that, what is the divorce going to be? Like? 168 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Is she going to get a lot of money out 169 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: of him? Because of his money? 170 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 2: This has always been something that has confused me because 171 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: apparently they had a prenup and according to testimony from 172 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: his attorney who wrote up the prenup, that was a 173 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: as I guess he would say, a very good prenup, 174 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 2: and so he wasn't really in danger of losing a 175 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: lot of money in that way. I think it was 176 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: about his motivation was not financial necessarily. The next thing 177 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: that happens is Holly Williams. It turns out as a boyfriend. 178 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: The boyfriend is this nanke you redhead named Bill Landway 179 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 2: from the suburbs of Nashville. They started going to DM 180 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: parties a lot together and they got very close, and 181 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: then he found out she was in escort. I guess 182 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: he didn't know that rightway, he got extremely possessive and jealous. 183 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: Also wasn't making a lot of money. It sounds like 184 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: at the time he was delivering Amazon packages a little bad, 185 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,679 Speaker 2: and he was dealing cards for high end poker games, 186 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: but not really anything steady. And he started to get 187 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 2: a hold of her phone when she wasn't around, and 188 00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: digging up her client list, and in one case he 189 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 2: found a Vanderbilt radiologist whom he threatened. He didn't extort 190 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: the radiologist, he was just threatening him and said, you know, 191 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: if you see Hollywood's again and I'll tell your wife. 192 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 2: He also found Eric's number and he must have done 193 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 2: enough googling. Doesn't take much to figure out that Eric 194 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: Land has a lot of money. This time he started 195 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: asking for money. I don't know if there were others, 196 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: if there were others that didn't come into evidence in the. 197 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 3: Trial, but we know of at least those two that 198 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: Bill Lanway was reaching out to Eric as most people 199 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 3: would in this situation, completely breaked out. 200 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: So he doesn't extort money from the radiologist, but he 201 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: does from Eric. So he makes this decision. And what 202 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: is he doing? So he's calling Eric and he says, 203 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: You're going to need to give me money or I'm 204 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: going to tell everybody that you've hired an escort. Is 205 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: that pretty much what ends up happening. How much? Which 206 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: is he demanding twenty five thousand dollars? You would think 207 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: you would ask for more money. 208 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 2: Everybody assumes that he mistyped it, but he wrote at 209 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: one point twenty five hundred, even lower twenty five hundred 210 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: to make all your problems go away, right, But Eric 211 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,840 Speaker 2: and the people around Eric testified that twenty five thousand 212 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,720 Speaker 2: was the number that was being batted around. So on 213 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: the phone and however else Eric was getting this information, 214 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 2: it was clear to him anyway that it was twenty 215 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 2: five thousand. 216 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: Now does Bill's girlfriend, the escort Holly, does she know 217 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: that this is happening. 218 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 2: Or no, There's been no evidence that she knew about 219 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: any of this. 220 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: What are the instructions that Bill has given Eric? Is 221 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: this like a wire transfer or what's supposed to happen? 222 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: I don't remember what the method was supposed to be. 223 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: But Eric decides instead of doing that, he talks to 224 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 2: one of his colleagues at the dealership, and that guy 225 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: gets in touch with somebody named Gil Pulled. Gil Paled 226 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: is a new security worker at the dealership. He claimed 227 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: to have served in the Masade, the Israeli intelligence agency. 228 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: He has built like I mean, just like a brick, 229 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: and so Gil suggested to Eric that he go to 230 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 2: the police, but Eric said he didn't want to be embarrassed, 231 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 2: and so Gil told him, Okay, I got it. 232 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: I'll take care of it. 233 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: He then goes to another guy in Austin, not far 234 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: from his house. This guy, Brian Brockway, lives nearby, and 235 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: he said, what I can do for you is, you know, 236 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: just build this, do a surveillance operation in Nashville and 237 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: just kind of spoke around. At this point. They just 238 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 2: know that it has something to do with Layla love, right, 239 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 2: and that's kind of all they have to go on. 240 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: And so the idea is Brian Brockway will get a 241 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: little team together and they'll go to Nashville and sniff 242 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 2: it out. And that was all that it was supposed 243 00:13:58,520 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: to be. 244 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: I feel like there's some weird disconnect with this part 245 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: of the story because twenty five thousand is not a lot, okay, 246 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: And then I'm thinking, okay, twenty five thousand. Of course, 247 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: we've already said this over and over again. He can 248 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,960 Speaker 1: spend this. This is no big deal. He's getting a divorce, 249 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: I mean basically, right. I mean he's sort of the 250 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: relationship is essentially over. He's not trying to save a relationship. 251 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: He has adult children, he doesn't have little children. Is 252 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: it really sort of this shame? I know he's very 253 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: close to his father. You really think he's driven by 254 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: like the shame the public ridicule of this coming out. Somehow, 255 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: it just seems so extreme to then hire eventually a 256 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: hitman to do this. 257 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's important to remember that he didn't 258 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: go into this hiring a Hitman, right. He just went 259 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 2: into it, hiring somebody to look into it, and then 260 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: it just sort of escalates. I can't say exactly that 261 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: it got out of his control because he's paid for 262 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 2: but he just kind of kept signing off on you 263 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 2: want to do what sure, go do that yes, And 264 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: so the guys on the ground could not seem to 265 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 2: get Holly or Bill Landway to respond. They would knock 266 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: on the door, they would text. 267 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 4: You know. 268 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: The guys who landed were very experienced. Brian Brockway had 269 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: deployed all of the world conducting special ops on behalf 270 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 2: of the US Marines, and he hired this kid, Adam, 271 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: a twenty nine year old former marine. There were two 272 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: other guys who were involved, one whom we call Red 273 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 2: because he has had to keep his name out of 274 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: the press because he's still concerned that some of these 275 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: guys and their friends may come after him. And then 276 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 2: there's a guy named Tony Rapinsky who landed got one 277 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: whiff of the situation and was like, I'm out of here. 278 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: Wow, this is all bad. 279 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 2: This can only go in bad directions based on the 280 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 2: things that I'm seeing. In fact, like when he sat 281 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 2: down to give his testimony. I remember one of the 282 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: defense attorneys. Eric's defense attorney asked, you know, what were 283 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 2: you most afraid of when you landed in Nashville, and 284 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 2: he just said stupidity and that basically said it all. 285 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 2: Like I can really testify. After that, it was kind 286 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: of like, Okay, yeah, that loves it up. 287 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: But I mean, the more people you involved in this conspiracy, 288 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: the bigger. Well, of course, I'm thinking this is way 289 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: more than twenty five thousand. I'm assuming this is really 290 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: he's going to be on the whole as we're going along. 291 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm thinking, you know, the 292 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: more people that you're adding in, the riskier it is. 293 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: But it sounds like he really was just scared, right. 294 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 2: I think so he was out of his element. If 295 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: he had dealt with blackmail before, it wasn't this type 296 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: of black mail, I don't. I mean, I don't have 297 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 2: any evidence that he'd ever dealt with it before, but 298 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 2: I don't know, certainly not this type, bro, because his 299 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 2: reactions are give up a whiff of. 300 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: Desperation, Yeah, very extreme. 301 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: Adam, who was the youngest, you know, the group, the 302 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 2: twenty nine year old, starts making comments about he could 303 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 2: get rid of this problem for fifty or sixty. K 304 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: Red thinks it's a joke at first, but then starts thinking, 305 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 2: this kid's loose cannon. He's really immature. Adam goes to 306 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,199 Speaker 2: Walmart and buys cable tize and burlap, and you know, 307 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: the rest of the guys are like, what is this 308 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: kid up to? But then Brian after Red and Tony 309 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 2: Rapinsky leave Nashville and it's just Brian and Adam and 310 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: it's coming to this sort deadline point for Eric. They 311 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: finally take that idea to Gil Pullett and say, what 312 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: if we just take. 313 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: Them out, both of them. They're talking about Bill and Holly. 314 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, at first they talk about just Bill, but then 315 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 2: based on something that was so nothing. I mean, I 316 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: think they claimed that they saw Holly walking around with 317 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 2: like a bag from a home depot or office depot 318 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 2: or something, and based on just like that said, oh, 319 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 2: I think she's spending a lot of money. We don't 320 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,400 Speaker 2: know if they just wanted to cover their bases, if 321 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: they wanted to do a thorough job, if they really 322 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 2: just needed the money and so they needed kind of 323 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 2: to amp up the threat. Whatever the case is, they 324 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 2: brought it to Gil. Gil brought it to Eric. It's 325 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 2: then I think the evening of March eleventh, Eric is home. 326 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: His landline rings a voice he doesn't recognize, which is 327 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: Bill says, you have till eight o'clock tonight or he's 328 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 2: gonna tell Eric's wife everything. And then at eight o'clock 329 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 2: he texts, it's eight o'clock and I'm going to follow 330 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 2: up through with everything and thank you. It's just weird. 331 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 2: That night, Gil takes the idea to Eric and he 332 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 2: drives up outside of Eric's house and he says, you know, 333 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 2: this is what Adam and Brian propose edm and Brian 334 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 2: had proposed course to take them out for sixteen k each, 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 2: so one hundred and twenty total that Eric would be 336 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 2: paying out. But that's not what Gila Led told Eric 337 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: because gilad Led was desperate for cash himself. Gil needed 338 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 2: I think he had eleven dollars in the bank at 339 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: that moment. He had two little kids and was having 340 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: trouble with his wife's business. He could see, you know, 341 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: COVID was coming, his wife had a salon. Everything was 342 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 2: shutting down. I mean, I think there was just sort 343 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 2: of panic in the air. And so when Eric asks 344 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: how much does something like that cost. He follows up with, 345 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 2: you know, five hundred thousand Is that sound about right? 346 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 2: And Gil says, yeah, I think five hundred thousand wouldn't 347 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 2: do it. 348 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 4: Wow. 349 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: Did you find out or did it come out during 350 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: any of the trial. Did you find out if Eric 351 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: had told anyone else about this in his family other 352 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: than you know, talking to all these goons. Did his 353 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: dad know? Did anybody know if they did? 354 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: That was never revealed in court. 355 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 1: So tell me how this starts to unfold. Eric says, okay, 356 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: half a million's fine? And what happens after that? You 357 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: have all of these players involved, who all sound like 358 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: goons to me. 359 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 2: Well again, by this time, it's just Adam and Bryan 360 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,440 Speaker 2: on the ground. That night, they just decide they're going 361 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: to surprise Bill and Holly in the parking lot outside 362 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 2: of Holly's apartment, which is what they do. They kidnap 363 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 2: Holly first, They shoot Bill dead, keep him in the car, 364 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 2: then keep her alive in the back seat. One of 365 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 2: the special ops guys drives Holly's car with Bill and 366 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 2: Holly in it to a site, an off site location, 367 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 2: and then the other special ops worker takes a rental 368 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 2: car behind Holly's car to follow them as sort of 369 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: the getaway car. 370 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: And Holly is alive. Does anybody talk about what hery? 371 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: I'm sure she terrified and has no idea what's happening, 372 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: but her boyfriend is dead. 373 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: We do find out later in undercover recordings that they 374 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: were possibly surprised. It gets a little confusing, like, on 375 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 2: one hand, you hear from gil Paled that yes, it 376 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 2: was the plan was always Holly and Bill. But when 377 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: Brian Brockway is telling the story to Red in an 378 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 2: undercover recording that the FBI set up later, he tells 379 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 2: read that they were shocked all of a sudden, Oh 380 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 2: my god, it's both of them. So now we've got 381 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 2: two of them. And they were kind of telling Holly 382 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: it's fine, it's fine, We're not after you, and then 383 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,879 Speaker 2: ended up killing her in the back seat just to 384 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: kind of cover their tracks. 385 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: Where do they end up putting the bodies? So they 386 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: have these these two adults. Are they driving out of 387 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: town or what are they doing? 388 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 2: They drove kind of where there was a construction site. 389 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 2: It's not far from Hollway's apartment. They just drove kind 390 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 2: of around the corner where there was this little construction site, 391 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,400 Speaker 2: and they made it look like Holly's car had kind 392 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 2: of just driven down into a ditch to hit a tree. 393 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 2: On the first glance, it looked like it could have 394 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 2: been just a car crash, except that when you look 395 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 2: in the car itself, there's nobody in the driver's seat. 396 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 2: I mean, one person is in the back seat and 397 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 2: the other person is literally like, I don't know why 398 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: upside down. Bill was upside down in the passenger seat. 399 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: Wow, And of course they've been shot once you start 400 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: looking at it. Okay, who makes the discovery of these 401 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: two bodies. 402 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 2: It was a construction worker who got to the job 403 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 2: site the morning of March thirteenth, We spotted Holly's Acura 404 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 2: and calls nine to one one. Then the Metro Nashville 405 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 2: Police Department starts to investigate, and pretty soon after that 406 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 2: they start to put pieces together. Probably because hollyhead recording 407 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 2: devices all over her house. 408 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: What she did. 409 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,399 Speaker 2: Why Bill Landway had been increasingly abusive and to the 410 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: point where she had even filed restraining orders against him. 411 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: I mean it was on again, off again, and so 412 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: even though he had these instructions, he would kind of 413 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 2: still come by and they would make up and it 414 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: would all be fine. It was complicated that way, And 415 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 2: so when the officers went into Holly's apartment, they had 416 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: all this video, but all you could see from the 417 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 2: video as far as the murders are concerned, is you 418 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 2: see Holly and Billy in the apartment. Then you can 419 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 2: hear everything happening in the parking lot, but you can't 420 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: see it. But then they rewind the tape and they 421 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: see these suspicious looking characters, big guys not facing the camera, 422 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 2: seemingly intentionally knocking on her door asking to talk. So 423 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: they feel like, okay, this is probably connected too. Then 424 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,719 Speaker 2: they release the video to the public and say, hey, 425 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 2: anyone know who this guy is. It's sort of a 426 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 2: amazing when you hear the tech workers for the investigative 427 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: units describe the tools that they have. I mean, it's like, 428 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 2: you know, picking off the cell towers and trying to 429 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: figure out, like, well, who set up this address and 430 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: whose phone is this and all that. And so they 431 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 2: were finally able to figure out this involved Eric MOHMD. 432 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,199 Speaker 2: They still didn't know exactly how it involved ericmand but 433 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,840 Speaker 2: they were able to get stuff off the cloud and 434 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 2: find some messages and things like that, and because then 435 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 2: it became multiple states, then it's involved the FBI. 436 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: I know this is an odd question, but what is 437 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: Eric using that you all are able to figure out 438 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: that he requested Holly one night and then another escort 439 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: another night. Are the police tracing something to be able 440 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: to figure out what he had been doing? 441 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: I think that was P four one one and SLIKSA 442 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 2: were two sites that Holly had been using. Their sites 443 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 2: coming used with escorts, and so I think it was 444 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,239 Speaker 2: just going through all of her clients and trying to 445 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 2: figure out which numbers matched. The investigators were finally able 446 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: to get texts between Holly and Bill to illuminate that 447 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 2: relationship and conflict, and then they were also able to 448 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: get all of the texts between Bill and others, and 449 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: so he was they, you know, by like who is 450 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 2: this number? Well, this is this number belongs to some 451 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 2: guy in Austin. Why is he texting him for money? 452 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,440 Speaker 2: I don't understand what's going on here. So then they 453 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 2: have to kind of start piecing it out enough that 454 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: they can make the connection to Gil Paled and then 455 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 2: they start getting the bank records and learn that Eric 456 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 2: wand transferred one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to Glad 457 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 2: Paled the day of the murders, which is significant for investigator. Right, 458 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 2: they find a situation report that wrote to Gil talking 459 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 2: about the surveillance of Holly and Bill. Point I think 460 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: the FBI knew really what they were looking at. Hitman 461 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 2: for hire resulting in murder is pretty rare. A lot 462 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: of times it's hit man for hire, but it doesn't 463 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 2: get to the point of the actual murders, and this 464 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,360 Speaker 2: was a rare instance where it did. And so they're 465 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 2: kind of working backwards. 466 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: So it's Gill and Adam only is Byron in this 467 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: at all? 468 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:22,840 Speaker 4: Or no? 469 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, so Gil was sort of the middleman, right. 470 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: It's Brian and Adam were the guys on the ground 471 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 2: doing the shooting, and they were never able to clarify 472 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: who which one of them pulled the trigger or if 473 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 2: they both pulled the trigger. At the end of the day, 474 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 2: it was tried as a conspiracy, and so it didn't matter. 475 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,439 Speaker 1: Once they kill Bill and Hawley and try to stage 476 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: just as an accident, is there a text or a 477 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: phone call to Eric confirming that this is done. 478 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: The only way that the investigators knew that Gil and 479 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 2: Eric knew is because all their phones suddenly go silent, 480 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: like Adam dismantles his account, Brian gets rid of his account, 481 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 2: All the accounts suddenly disappear. 482 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: How quickly does this case come together after Bill and 483 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: Holly are discovered. 484 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: Not very quickly, not very quickly at all. So that 485 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 2: was right when COVID hits right March twenty twenty, and 486 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 2: they're not able to put anything together until they gets 487 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 2: summer of twenty twenty one, when they finally have done 488 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 2: enough desk work, you know, searching bank records, phone records, 489 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: all that kind of jazz, and they figure they need 490 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: a confidential source whom they can leverage. And Red had 491 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 2: just applied for a job that we can't say, but 492 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,320 Speaker 2: you can guess something that required really high security clearance. 493 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 2: And the FBI met him in the interview and told 494 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: him he needed to start texting Adam and Brian again 495 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: and set up a ruse as if Red were going 496 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: to attempt something similar in a similar situation where a 497 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 2: guy was being exhorted by a woman and needed to 498 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: get rid of her, and so he was pretending like 499 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 2: he was looking for tips like what did you learn 500 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 2: from your Nashville experience? You know, I never really heard 501 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: what went on? Can you tell me more? And so 502 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 2: using that technique, he was able to get them both 503 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 2: to talk extensively, even though they both both Adam and 504 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: Brian started out very nervous. And that was one of 505 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 2: the most amazing things to me about doing this as 506 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 2: a podcast, And of course it's a standalone story too, 507 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 2: But when you can hear the audio of Adam and 508 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 2: Brian discussing what they did, things they would have done differently, 509 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: advice that they give to Red, it's just so chilling. 510 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: You're just in the room with them, you know, dear 511 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 2: a nonchalant it is. 512 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: How well did Red know them that well? 513 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 2: I mean, he was in the same circles and they 514 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 2: knew a lot of people in common, but I don't 515 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: think naming each other very well before all. 516 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: This, So you all ended up interviewing Red for this 517 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: or no. 518 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 2: No, I'm hoping after sentencing, I don't think we're going 519 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 2: to have many surprises because it's mandatory life or this 520 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: kind of conviction. But there always appeals, so you know, 521 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 2: everybody's kind of waiting. Some of those people who are 522 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: in with the investigators, and maybe even on in any 523 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: of the other groups. You know, if there's anybody from 524 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 2: Bryan's family or Eric's family, or at a family or 525 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 2: even the victims' families who wanted to talk, I think 526 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 2: maybe they will wait until sentencing as well. 527 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: Tell me about some of the things that you can 528 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 1: recall that were on this undercover wire. Is there anything 529 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: that was surprising to you? 530 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 2: A lot of it was surprising the level of detail 531 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: that Adam was able to give. Read, you know, make 532 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 2: sure use these kinds of gloves, make sure you tape, 533 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 2: you know, put two pairs of gloves on, so don't 534 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: leave any DNA and TAPA shut on it, so on 535 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: this kind of stuff. Probably shocking to me was Brian 536 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 2: saying how he really respected Adam for killing Holly in 537 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 2: the backseat because he knows a lot of guys have 538 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 2: a bleeding heart and couldn't do that, And that kind 539 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 2: of talk was pretty pretty shocking for me. 540 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: And Red handled it well, I'm assuming, I mean, they 541 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: believed him obviously, so he got them everything that they needed, 542 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: essentially he did. 543 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 2: And then the FBI grabbed Gil coming off the airplane 544 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 2: at the Austin Airport, and put him on the phone 545 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 2: with Eric Moond, knowing that Eric was driving up from 546 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: a hunting trip in South Texas. I think this was 547 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 2: December of twenty twenty one, So again, like took a 548 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 2: long time to get to this point of starting to 549 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 2: arrest anybody, and then everybody's basically arrested on the same day, 550 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: just after Gil gets Eric on the phone and they record, 551 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 2: I records that and Gil tells Eric, you know, we 552 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 2: have a problem. The Nashville shooters want an extra twenty 553 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: five thousand dollars to keep quiet. What should we do? 554 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 2: Do you want me to take care of it? And 555 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: Eric just says, give me a number. That's his response, 556 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 2: Not what are you talking about anything like that. Just 557 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 2: give me a number, and Gil says one hundred. And 558 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 2: Eric says, honestly, I'd rather take care of it permanently 559 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: than do the twenty five thousand. So it's almost like 560 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 2: his idea. He says, I'll just wire it to you, 561 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 2: just like last time. Wow, it's a hard thing for 562 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: him to defend himself. After that, the FBI descends on 563 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 2: him pretty quickly, arrests him, pulls him in, and after 564 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: all that, it's just a matter of going to trial. 565 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: Then do they say what Eric's reaction was? I mean, 566 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: I know that sounds like a silly question, but was 567 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: he in denial about it or what did he do? 568 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 2: It was hard to say what his reaction was. 569 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 4: We watched the video as the FBI played a recording 570 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 4: of the murders from Holly's security camera audio, and they 571 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 4: recorded Eric's reaction. 572 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 2: He shows that he's listening really hard. He keeps saying 573 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 2: like kind of I don't know, you know what this is? 574 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 2: And and they keep coming back to him with you 575 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 2: know exactly what this is? 576 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: Does everybody else turn on him? Essentially? I mean, do 577 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 1: you get the real real story? Once these guys are 578 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: all under arrest? 579 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 2: Not really really. None of them testified in the trial 580 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 2: except for Guilfilett. They said that there might be some 581 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 2: Google rooms in his sentencing if you testified, but everybody 582 00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 2: else said nothing and pled not guilty, which you know, 583 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: someone explained to me that they would all, of course 584 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: plead not guilty because it would be sort of notpractice 585 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 2: for an attorney to tell your client to plead guilty 586 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 2: if you know they're looking at life anyway, so their 587 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 2: only chance is to plead not guilty even I says 588 00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 2: sort of a slam dunk. 589 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: Now, what are the chart or just for all these 590 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: guys because Gil doesn't pull the trigger, he's not even 591 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: at the scene. He's the middleman who's organizing things. What 592 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: is he charged with? 593 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 2: So Adam, Brian and Eric were trying who murder for hire? 594 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that's what Gil was also charged with. 595 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 2: Because it's a conspiracy, They're all charged together. And then 596 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 2: Adam and Brian were also charged and found guilty of 597 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: two additional charges, conspiracy to kidnapping and kidnapping with death 598 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,959 Speaker 2: resulting because they'd taken Holly while she was still alive 599 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: in the parking lot and then killed her later than 600 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 2: they had the extra kidnapping charges. 601 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: Do we ever see Holly's family or Bill's family through 602 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: any of this? 603 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: Not really. Bill's family is pretty complicated. His dad shot 604 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: his mom or stabbed his mom when he was really 605 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 2: little in. 606 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: Front of him. 607 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: But he was raised by other family members who did 608 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: come to the child but understandably wanted the mood to 609 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 2: talk to reporters. And Hollick's family was also grieving and wow, 610 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 2: they were in the courtroom, didn't want to interact with. 611 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: Us what happens with Eric, because he's you know, now 612 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,760 Speaker 1: kind of the central character here. Has he gone on trial? 613 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they were all tried together in Nashville and found 614 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 2: guilty after I think it was about three weeks testimony 615 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 2: and said then the sentencing. Now they're just kind of 616 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 2: hanging out in federal prison waiting for where they're going 617 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: to be permanently and for how long, and so we'll 618 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 2: know more about that. I think by the end of 619 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: the year. 620 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,720 Speaker 1: Any reaction from his family, Eric's family, his ex wife, 621 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: or the kids. Was anyone there from his family? 622 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 2: His family sat in front of us and they were 623 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 2: underto you know, they were upset. 624 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: Of course, did they believe it. 625 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know what they said to 626 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,280 Speaker 2: each other when they would go back to their hotel 627 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: in Nashville. We were told by other folks who hang 628 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 2: out in Eric's circles that in the days leading up 629 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 2: to the jury's decision that the people were kind of split. 630 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 2: There were some people who were just thinking like, well, 631 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,920 Speaker 2: he probably just said take care of it, and somebody 632 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: misinterpreted that. But I think after all the evidence came 633 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 2: out and that got around Austin the opinion shifted a bit, 634 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,439 Speaker 2: although there are still people who we've talked to who 635 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 2: not defend him necessarily, but don't believe that he should 636 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 2: go that Eric should go to prison for the rest 637 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: of his life, because I said, he only did it 638 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: the one time, and it's not like something that he 639 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,919 Speaker 2: would probably do again. So there are folks who say 640 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 2: things like that or justify it one way or the other. 641 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: I don't know what Eric's personal reaction is to it. 642 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 2: I did get the sense from just watching him in 643 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: court that he was pretty devastated by the decision. Adam 644 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 2: and Brian were totally impossible to read. They had no reaction. 645 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 1: What's your feeling about this whole story? I mean, why 646 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: is this an interesting story to you? Why would you 647 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: want to spend so much time on this particular story? 648 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:05,839 Speaker 1: What does it say? 649 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of talk these days about privilege, 650 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 2: and this was a doozy somebody who really didn't see 651 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 2: that his actions had any consequences, or that the consequences 652 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 2: that it meant for other people weren't any relevant. I, 653 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: as you know, like generally do convent stories. If I 654 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: do true crime, I normally steer away from murders. But 655 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 2: this one did have some overlap with the con men 656 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 2: who I've written about, which is that conman always think 657 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 2: they're smarter than everybody else and that the rules are flexible. 658 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 2: One guy explained to me, you know, rules are man made, 659 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 2: and he too was a man who could make rules. 660 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,719 Speaker 2: And I think while Eric's not a con man, he 661 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: did share that philosophy. He kind of just felt like, 662 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 2: just pay the money and get it taken care of, 663 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 2: and you don't have to get your hands dirty. Also 664 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,879 Speaker 2: was really intrigued by all of the motivations that were 665 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 2: sort of creating this perfect storm in which this was 666 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 2: sort of an inevitability. You have the jealous boyfriend who 667 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 2: lashes out of his girlfriend's clients, so there's you know 668 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 2: he's coming in. You have a middleman who's desperate for 669 00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 2: cash and sees endless opportunities. Eric Non is basically an 670 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 2: ATM machine, right. You have a guy who's sort of Adam, 671 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,760 Speaker 2: who's sort of fantasized about becoming a hitman his whole life, 672 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 2: who now has a perfect opportunity to live out his fantasies. 673 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,400 Speaker 2: And Eric, a rich guy who wants to keep his 674 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 2: secret secret and Holly kind of walks into this storm 675 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 2: and it's just got a collateral damage. We've seen a 676 00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 2: lot of the texts between her and Bill in the 677 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 2: week's leading up to this. There's no indication, I mean, 678 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 2: she was trying to get rid of him. In fact, 679 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,359 Speaker 2: she was about to go to the courthouse and give 680 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 2: more testimony about things he had done that would put 681 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 2: Bill in prison. 682 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 4: Wow. 683 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 2: I think her exact words were in the in one 684 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,439 Speaker 2: of the texts you in court, motherfucker. 685 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: Poor Holly. I mean, a tumultuous existence. It sounds like 686 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean so ultimately. 687 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 4: You know. 688 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: One of the things that I find so confusing about 689 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: this story is I keep coming back to the twenty 690 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 1: five thousand dollars, just what a not a big deal 691 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,959 Speaker 1: this was. But you know what, Paul Hole's on Barry 692 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: Bones and I talk about this all the time, where 693 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: we say, boy, you know, nobody would kill someone over this, 694 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,719 Speaker 1: and Paul always says, it doesn't matter what you think, 695 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: it's the perception of that person. And as you keep 696 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: coming back to, it's not the twenty five thousand for him, 697 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: it's the you know, humiliation or the Lord knows whatever 698 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: is in Eric Mohm's mind, but it doesn't matter because 699 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: that's what he thought was the appropriate reaction. So now 700 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: he's sitting in jail over twenty five thousand dollars and 701 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, and murdering two people he barely knew and 702 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 1: what he didn't know at all, And that's just awful, awful. 703 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 2: I think it's to me, it's the escalation of things 704 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 2: getting out of control and how slippery it gets after 705 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: a certain point. You know, if you keep saying, yes, 706 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 2: let's keep going down this road and yes, and you're panicking, 707 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 2: and you can kind of feel this moment approaching and 708 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 2: it feels like there is nobody in their right mind 709 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 2: around to stop it. Yeah, the only people who could 710 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 2: have stopped it left town. 711 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: Well, it's normalized. It's being more normalized. The more they 712 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: talk about the surveillance. It's like stalking, you know, peeping tom. 713 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 1: It all escalates into something worse. So what a story. 714 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,759 Speaker 1: And I will say, I mean, aside from feeling I 715 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: don't feel as bad for Bill obviously as I do 716 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:53,080 Speaker 1: for Holly, but I feel particularly terrible for his eric's 717 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: adult children and his ex wife. I mean, and I 718 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: guess his father too. I mean, that must just be 719 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: really differ. Do you think that this has had any 720 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,439 Speaker 1: kind of impact on the dealership, which I know people 721 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: are going to think it's silly, but Charles Monteyute has 722 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,799 Speaker 1: been around forever. I mean, it's an institution. Did it 723 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: get any kind of blowback? Do you think? 724 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 2: Oh? For sure. In the months after the arrests, the 725 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 2: Monts had to sell their car business to a fortune 726 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 2: three hundred company whoa The amount was undisclosed. But yeah, 727 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 2: another dealer, former dealer in town, told us that there's 728 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,440 Speaker 2: a clause in a lot of these agreements that local 729 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 2: dealerships have with the company, and if you get into 730 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 2: some kind of jam like this, you're done. 731 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: So that was because of this, I mean that's. 732 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,800 Speaker 2: The family has not said that, and there's no paperwork 733 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 2: to say that, but a dealer who knows family and 734 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 2: has enough experience in this that it's definitely something to consider. 735 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: Wow, oh boy, what a story. And you know, I mean, 736 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: I know it was an Austin story, and I know 737 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: had been kicking around for several years. And you know, 738 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,160 Speaker 1: something that happens in the middle of the pandemic, which 739 00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,560 Speaker 1: throws so much stuff off and slows investigations, that's amazing. 740 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, and if there's a time to you know, 741 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,400 Speaker 2: sit tight and be quiet, which Eric had to do 742 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 2: of course, and then months after the murder it would 743 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 2: have been that time, Like, there's no better time to 744 00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: keep from acting suspicious. I mean, who knows, if you know, 745 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 2: people see you out and about in the world in 746 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 2: the months, in the weeks after something like this, maybe 747 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 2: you are rattled or you look you know, look different. 748 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: But when we started asking around people in Austin, you know, 749 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,680 Speaker 2: how did his behavior change? The response was it was 750 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 2: the pandemic. 751 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so we all changed. 752 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. He was in his living room 753 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 2: like everybody else. 754 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. What do you think the lesson learned is from 755 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,600 Speaker 1: all of this, Katie? Do you I mean, is there 756 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: any takeaway aside from I mean just the obvious, which 757 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: is murder for hire is an awful life, conspiracy is 758 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: and awful idea. We've talked about privilege, is that kind 759 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: of what it boils down to people thinking that they 760 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,320 Speaker 1: can do whatever the hell they want because of the 761 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 1: way they grew up. 762 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 2: It's a big part of it, certainly a big part 763 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,879 Speaker 2: of it. And then again, how in some situations there's 764 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 2: these sort of trains racing towards each other, and sometimes 765 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 2: it just seems like there's very little you can do 766 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: to stop it. 767 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: If you love historical true crime stories, check out the 768 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 1: audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All That 769 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: Is Wicked, and American Sherlock and Don't Forget. There are 770 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: twelve seasons of my historical true crime podcast, Tenfold More 771 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: Wicked right here in this podcast feed, scroll back and 772 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,920 Speaker 1: give them a listen if you haven't already. This has 773 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Alexis M. Morosi. 774 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: Associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed by 775 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer. Artwork by Nick Toga. 776 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,680 Speaker 1: Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. 777 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: Follow Wicked Words on Instagram at tenfold More Wicked and 778 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,560 Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wicked Words Pod