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Speaker 1: Murder and Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Laren, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: Hey?

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Speaker 4: Phil?

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Speaker 3: Is it okay? If I ask you a few more questions?

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Speaker 2: All? I sure?

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Speaker 3: I met Phil Stamford while I was producing a podcast

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Speaker 3: about serial killer Keith Hunter Jesperson. Phil's a crime reporter

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Speaker 3: and the newspaper columnist who branded Jessperson the happy Face Killer.

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Speaker 3: He and I hit it off and we became friends

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Speaker 3: to the point where we talk a couple of times

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Speaker 3: a week. I joke, the only person I call more

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Speaker 3: is my mom. And that's how I got hooked on

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Speaker 3: this story, the nineteen eighty nine murder of Michael Frankie,

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Speaker 3: who is the director of Oregon's Department of Corrections. His

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Speaker 3: killing is deeply intertwined with deception, greed, and corruption that

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Speaker 3: radiates to the highest levels of politics and power. It's

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Speaker 3: never been and it's haunted Stanford for thirty years.

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Speaker 2: It was not an accident. It was not a car

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Speaker 2: burglary gone bad. It was it was an assassination. He

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Speaker 2: was a public official who discovered corruption in his own department.

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Speaker 2: Heads were going to roll the night before he was

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Speaker 2: to address the legislative committee on this very subject. He

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Speaker 2: was stabbed in the heart in front of the building

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Speaker 2: where he worked. It was a cover up from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: They couldn't afford to even look at the people who

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Speaker 2: might have done it, so they selected a patsy, and

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Speaker 2: they made up the evidence against him, put him on trial,

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Speaker 2: and got a conviction. Those sons a bit.

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Speaker 3: Do you think they knew he was innocent?

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Speaker 2: Of course they knew it.

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Speaker 3: I'm Lauren Bret Pacheco in This is Murder in Oregon.

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Speaker 3: As a columnist for The Oregonian and the Portland Tribune,

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Speaker 3: Bill wrote more than one hundred columns about Michael Frankie's murder,

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Speaker 3: arguing the innocence of the man imprisoned for killing him.

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Speaker 3: Many called Phil obsessed.

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Speaker 2: The worded session is kind of funny anyway. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it implies a compulsion that you don't have much control over,

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Speaker 2: and God knows there's probably some of that. But another

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Speaker 2: way of looking at it is stubbornness, and I will

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Speaker 2: pay guilty to that too.

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Speaker 3: Phil's a fiercely loyal guy with a choppy head of

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Speaker 3: silver hair that matches the stubble of his beard, and

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Speaker 3: soft brown eyes that seem to have seen a bit

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Speaker 3: too much of the corruption he writes about. Bill once

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Speaker 3: told me he prefers the company of criminals to Paula

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Speaker 3: Titians and some cops because he finds them more honest.

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Speaker 3: Michael Frankie's work entangled him with all three.

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Speaker 4: New Mexico Maximum Security Prison was in Santa Fe and

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Speaker 4: Mike lives with the AG's office in New Mexico for

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Speaker 4: the first district.

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Speaker 3: That's Kevin Frankie, Michael's little brother, although at just under

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Speaker 3: six foot four, they stood a hair apart. Like Phil,

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Speaker 3: Kevin projects the weariness and frustration of thirty years spent

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Speaker 3: trying to bring Mike's killers to justice.

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Speaker 4: It just makes me fucking sick.

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Speaker 3: He keeps his hair pulled back in a slim ponytail,

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Speaker 3: and his bushy eyebrows fight the frames of his wire

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Speaker 3: rimmed glasses. He looks a lot like pictures of Mike,

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Speaker 3: as does the eldest Frankie brother, Pat, who sports snow

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Speaker 3: white hair and an almost genteel cowboy swagger. He's kind

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Speaker 3: of like a cross between Thurston Howell and John Wayne,

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Speaker 3: and he's always holding a fat cigar, whether it's or not.

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Speaker 4: I was the oldest by three and a half years

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Speaker 4: to Mike, and I'm ten years older than Kevin, and

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Speaker 4: I got married shortly after high school, so I didn't

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Speaker 4: have a lot of interaction with Kevin. But Mike and

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Speaker 4: I were very close because we lived in our original

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Speaker 4: house over in Kansasity, Missouri, and then later we moved

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Speaker 4: to Prairie Village, Kansas.

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Speaker 3: Michael was a high school football star and wound up

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Speaker 3: with a half scholarship to Kansas University, but the coach

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Speaker 3: who recruited him was hired by Highlands University and offered

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Speaker 3: Mike a full scholarship to move down there and play

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Speaker 3: for him.

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Speaker 4: So that's how he wound up in New Mexico, and

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Speaker 4: he loved New Mexico. He loves skiing, he loved the outdoors.

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Speaker 4: But he graduated and scored very high on his LSATs,

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Speaker 4: and the University of Virginia Law School gave him a

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Speaker 4: full scholarship with living style. He was drafted when he

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Speaker 4: was in law school, so he applied to all services.

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Speaker 4: The Navy came up first. He accepted the Navy commission

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Speaker 4: when he got out of law school.

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Speaker 3: According to Pat, Mike was offered a job at a

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Speaker 3: high profile firm in New York, City, but decided to

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Speaker 3: return to New Mexico.

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Speaker 4: They went to work for the Attorney General because he

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Speaker 4: liked that part of the world. As part of his job,

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Speaker 4: he ran a drug interdiction program which interacted with all

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Speaker 4: the states that bordered Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas,

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Speaker 4: and then the Mexican counterparts on the states border of

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Speaker 4: the United States.

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Speaker 3: At the time Mike Frankie moved to New Mexico, the

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Speaker 3: prison systems were among the worst in the country. Education

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Speaker 3: and recreation programs in the prisons had been canceled five

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Speaker 3: years before. Prisons were overcrowded and overrun with cockroaches and mice.

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Speaker 3: Food was inadequate, and officials began to coerce inmates to

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Speaker 3: provide information, creating a snitch game that turned prisoners against

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Speaker 3: one another. Eventually, the system deteriorated into chaos, and what

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Speaker 3: followed was one of the most violent prison riots in

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Speaker 3: US history.

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Speaker 4: We were on a canoe trip down a real grand

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Speaker 4: years later in nineteen eighty four, sitting in a big

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Speaker 4: hot springs and we're miles from anywhere. They started talking

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Speaker 4: about it. These inmates were murdering, some burned to death,

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Speaker 4: as a settling torsues, for example, and it gets worse

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Speaker 4: than it.

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Speaker 3: The riot was horrifying torture, brutal killings, men pushed to

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Speaker 3: the brink by unlivable conditions in a system designed to

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Speaker 3: turn them against one another, and the smell.

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Speaker 4: The smell of death. The inmates were breaking out of

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Speaker 4: the prison to get away from the killing that was

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Speaker 4: going off. They got into the snitch files of the

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Speaker 4: warden's office and started singling out the guys that were

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Speaker 4: writting them out and killing them methodically and in the

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Speaker 4: most unspeakable way.

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Speaker 3: Kevin's take is even more gruesome.

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Speaker 4: The drains were all plugged up, and there was six

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Speaker 4: inches of blood and guts in the dormitory where the

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Speaker 4: protective custody wing was.

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Speaker 3: When it was finally contained, the riot left thirty three

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Speaker 3: inmates dead and over two hundred injured. Twelve officers had

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Speaker 3: been taken hostage during the riot. None were killed, but

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Speaker 3: seven of them were severely beaten and some were raped.

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Speaker 4: Mike was the first civilian inside the prison after the

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Speaker 4: National Guard took the prison.

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Speaker 3: Over What Michael Frankie walked into and through would have

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Speaker 3: been beyond brutal floors flooded with sewage, blood and body parts.

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Speaker 4: He had a pair of Lukeesy boots at his house

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Speaker 4: that bore the scars of that first walk into the

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Speaker 4: prison and up to six or seven inches above the ankle.

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Speaker 4: It was just stained with blood, and that was his

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Speaker 4: permanent reminder of the atrocities that can happen if you

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Speaker 4: don't have the programs, if you don't have the facility

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Speaker 4: under control.

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Speaker 3: Michael kept those boots to remember the lesson they taught.

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Speaker 4: He had a family room that he added onto the

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Speaker 4: house in Santa Fe. There was a china cabinet that

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Speaker 4: my mom actually refinished. It was the antique net, and

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Speaker 4: that's where he kept his handgun. It was a smith

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Speaker 4: and lesson forty four magnum on the top of that

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Speaker 4: because it was like six feet tall and none the

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Speaker 4: kids could reach up there to get it, so his

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Speaker 4: gun went up there. Next to that was the table

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Speaker 4: with a telephone, his pager charger, and there was some

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Speaker 4: shelves there with bookshelf built in, and there was a

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Speaker 4: pair of boots that were setting up there and they

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Speaker 4: looked disgusting, and that's that they were a constant reminder

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Speaker 4: if it was I can't imagine.

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Speaker 3: Instead of running from the violence those Boots represented, Michael

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Speaker 3: used the riot as motivation to fix the problems that

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Speaker 3: caused it, moving on to the Attorney General's office, where

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Speaker 3: he worked tirelessly to improve New Mexico's correctional system, helping

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Speaker 3: to get more prisons built to ease overcrowding, and funding

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Speaker 3: to reemphasize prisoner education programs.

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Speaker 4: He felt that education was the path out of prison

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Speaker 4: to break the cycle of recidivism. So he was on

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Speaker 4: the founding board of directors for the Santa Fe Community

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Speaker 4: College and was very very proud of that and actually

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Speaker 4: the dedication of the college that Reuben Cutting was after

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Speaker 4: he had moved up here to Oregon and they brought

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Speaker 4: him back down there with his family and it was great.

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Speaker 3: Frankie was driven to improve Corrections regardless of the obstacles.

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Speaker 4: He loved the business, he understood it, he knew how

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Speaker 4: to fix it.

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Speaker 3: Around the same time Michael was building new prisons in

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Speaker 3: New Mexico, Corrections in the state of Oregon was experiencing

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Speaker 3: its own difficulties.

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Speaker 2: Michael Frankie got hired in eighty so in eighty six,

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Speaker 2: the year before he got there, there had been a

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Speaker 2: brief kerfuffle referred to now as the eighty six investigation,

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Speaker 2: when a local state Senator Day had received word from

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Speaker 2: guards from inmates that alarmed him about the level of

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Speaker 2: corruption in the corrections department had pushed the governor to

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Speaker 2: have an investigation. Well, they state police didn't have much choice.

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Speaker 2: The governor was asking for it, so they made a

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Speaker 2: pass at it, and in the end demoted or fired

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Speaker 2: or prosecuted six very low ranking guards, one for say,

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Speaker 2: stealing a cow, another for taking tools, another for using marijuana.

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Speaker 2: There was brief notice of it in the papers, but

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Speaker 2: that was about it. It was a cover up. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that was the purpose of the investigation, just to sweep

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Speaker 2: it under the rug. And instead of one cow, there

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Speaker 2: was the wholesale theft of cuckloads of cattle. There was

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Speaker 2: inmate labor being given to a local contractor for free

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Speaker 2: drugs going in and out of the prison. Drug dealers

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Speaker 2: in the prison, protected prison officials using drugs and partying

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Speaker 2: with inmates who they would have out for the week

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Speaker 2: or the weekend.

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Speaker 3: Wait, they were letting them out on the weekend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well they're letting them out for the week. The

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Speaker 2: prisons were overcrowded. So their brilliant solution was to let

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Speaker 2: some of the prisoners out for a week and let

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Speaker 2: other people use their bunks, and then they let those

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Speaker 2: prisoners out for a week and they'd bring the other

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Speaker 2: prisoners back in. Of course, they came in loaded with drugs,

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Speaker 2: and while they were out there, they were doing what

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Speaker 2: they did best anyway, which was burglarizing houses. And so

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Speaker 2: around the prison there were a number of safe houses

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Speaker 2: where these stolen goods and drugs were exchanged, protected by

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Speaker 2: prison guards and officials.

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Speaker 3: So the eighty six investigation glossed over all of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's so clear is that after the state police

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Speaker 2: turned in their investigation lb day, the senator who had

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Speaker 2: requested the information in the first place, wrote a letter

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Speaker 2: to the governor saying he was dismayed that the investigation

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Speaker 2: hadn't gotten to the bottom of the rampant corruption and

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Speaker 2: the corrections.

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Speaker 3: To and what happened to Lbeda.

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Speaker 2: About two weeks after that, he died of a heart attack.

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Speaker 2: He was an old man, and that was the end

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Speaker 2: of the investigation. You fast forward a year. There's a

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Speaker 2: new governor, Neil Goldschmidt, and he hires a new director

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Speaker 2: of Corrections.

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Speaker 3: That's what Michael Frankie walks into.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, Neil Goldsmith had run against Norma Poulis, and

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Speaker 5: if there hadn't have been a third party candidate, probably

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Speaker 5: Norma would have won.

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Speaker 6: But Neil was this charismatic mayor of Portland and very

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Speaker 6: very gifted guy.

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Speaker 3: That's Chuck Sides, a then state representative whose legislative district

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Speaker 3: included the Oregon State Penitentiary. He and Mike Frankie played

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Speaker 3: basketball together. Today, he's an affable business man with a

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Speaker 3: booming laugh and tons of stories about Oregon's history and politics.

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Speaker 3: Back to Goldschmidt, short story on him. From the mayor's ship,

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Speaker 3: he was appointed to the Secretary of Interior under Carter

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Speaker 3: course loss in the next election, so he.

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Speaker 6: Came home and was hired by Nike, and Neil was

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Speaker 6: given the territory of candidate run.

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Speaker 3: But Neil and Nike didn't get along too well, so

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Speaker 3: gold Schmidt decided to run for governor.

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Speaker 6: When he wanted the election, he did a pretty good

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Speaker 6: survey and what was wrong with things and what was

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Speaker 6: right with things, and he interviewed older people that had

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Speaker 6: been in those areas, and one of them was Department

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Speaker 6: of Corrections.

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Speaker 3: And one of the biggest problems, like the mob, corrections

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Speaker 3: was a family business.

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Speaker 6: Corrections was made up of literally family members, an ex wife,

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Speaker 6: a wife, a cousin, an uncle, a brother, they're a sister,

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Speaker 6: and they basically interlocked and protected each other. And if

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Speaker 6: you got into the system, you learned the lessons in

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Speaker 6: life that hey, you go along, or you get out,

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Speaker 6: or something.

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Speaker 5: Happens to you.

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Speaker 3: Goldschmidt knew he had to do something about corrections and fast.

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Speaker 6: So he hunted nationwide and picked this guy out, Michael,

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Speaker 6: who was that time had just cleaned up the New

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Speaker 6: Mexico corrections part of it by taking the mob leaders

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Speaker 6: and putting him into isolation.

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Speaker 3: Frankie's success caught Goldschmid's attention, who tapped Mike to help

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Speaker 3: clean up Oregon's correction system, which, like New Mexico, was

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Speaker 3: also overwhelmed by overcrowding and corruption. Here's Phil Neil.

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Speaker 2: Goldschmidt knows there's a mess down there, but Ali has

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Speaker 2: publicly is that it's a management problem, and he hires

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Speaker 2: Michael Frankie. Michael Frankie is not the usual sort of

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Speaker 2: prison warden you see in the movies. He was a lawyer,

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Speaker 2: he was a former judge, he was a former prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: a really sophisticated guy. So he's brought in. He starts

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Speaker 2: hearing from the same people who talked to LB Day,

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Speaker 2: the same guards, the same inmates. He's getting the same information,

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Speaker 2: and he starts his own investigation.

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Speaker 3: Mike's older brother, Pat believes while Frankie knew the correction

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Speaker 3: system needed fixing, he wasn't given the full picture.

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Speaker 4: He didn't know about the problems with corruption when he

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Speaker 4: came up here. He had looked at Alaska, Texas, Colorado, Maryland,

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Speaker 4: and Oregon for various reasons. The others didn't work out.

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Speaker 4: There was just a whole reasons why. Neil Goldschmidt had

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Speaker 4: promised Mike the same level of support that he had

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Speaker 4: gotten from Tony and I when Tony was governor.

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Speaker 3: Frankie hired an assistant director, Elise Claw, who recalls their

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Speaker 3: first meeting with the governor.

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Speaker 7: Neil said, and if things blow up with the counties,

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Speaker 7: he said, because I'm going to run for reelection, he said,

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Speaker 7: I may hold you responsible. Michael's just they're listening kind

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Speaker 7: of like, oh.

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Speaker 3: Well, despite the difficulties he'd soon encounter. Mike's arrival was

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Speaker 3: well received by many, including then State Senator Jim Hill.

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Speaker 8: He came across as someone who was enthusiastic and corrections

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Speaker 8: is the kind of feel that can just beat the

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Speaker 8: enthusiasm out of you if you allow it.

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Speaker 3: Originally from Atlanta, Hill, like Frankie, was a transplant.

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Speaker 2: Very impressive guy, very capable lawyer first of all, and

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Speaker 2: he wasn't part of the good old boy system, so

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Speaker 2: he saw through it. He was quite noticeable besides that

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Speaker 2: because he was a tall, dignified black man, which is

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Speaker 2: worth saying in Oregon because there are some very few

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Speaker 2: black people, especially in the state legislature. After LBDA died,

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Speaker 2: he was elected to that seat in Salem. He tried

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Speaker 2: to take over the investigation. He was the head of

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Speaker 2: the legislative committee that Frankie was supposed to talk to.

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Speaker 2: The day after he was killed.

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Speaker 3: Jim Hill welcomed Mike Frankie's higher He.

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Speaker 8: Was someone who wanted to do some things that were innovative,

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Speaker 8: and he was a person who still cared. We had

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Speaker 8: a real sense of hope and that we had found

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Speaker 8: the right person, someone who was going to be progressive

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Speaker 8: in terms of corrections, and so it was really very exciting.

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Speaker 3: Former Representative Chuck Sides also saw the same promise.

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Speaker 6: Michael came walking in and he was the first guy

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Speaker 6: that ever said to me, I don't want more money.

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Speaker 6: I can't change people. I can detain them. If they

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Speaker 6: want to change, they change themselves. If you want to

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Speaker 6: help me out, you get more money to early childhood education, reading, writing,

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Speaker 6: math is more important and keeping people out of oppressions

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Speaker 6: than everything you'll ever know.

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Speaker 3: Here's Michael Frankie in his own words addressing the City

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Speaker 3: Club of Portland the year before he died.

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Speaker 9: I'm the punishment point in the criminal justice system. You

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Speaker 9: can put all the effort and money you want to

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Speaker 9: into the catch basin and the punishment exercise, but you're

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Speaker 9: not touching that socially complex bundle of issues having to

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Speaker 9: do with dysfunctional families, child abuse, substance abuse, parenting skills,

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Speaker 9: unwed motherhood, and teenagers and all that mess that generates

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Speaker 9: the people that come into prison.

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Speaker 3: That optimism was ill fated. It wasn't long before Mike

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Speaker 3: Frankie began to run into pushback from the old school system.

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Speaker 3: He wanted to expand the prisons to help control the overcrowding,

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Speaker 3: but without adequate support, his job became increasingly difficult and

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Speaker 3: it began to interfere with his life outside of work.

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Speaker 3: Here's Pat Frankie.

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Speaker 4: There were some things that happened. I came up here

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Speaker 4: in August before he died. He wasn't having a great time.

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Speaker 4: Goldschmidt didn't give him the support. In fact that I

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Speaker 4: think their relationship got contentious fairly early on, so he

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Speaker 4: was fighting an uphill battle. We were planning another long distance,

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Speaker 4: long eight day canoe trip, and I talked to him

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Speaker 4: in December before this trip, just before he died, and

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Speaker 4: he was up to his eyes trying to get his

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Speaker 4: budget put together, and he said, I don't know if

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Speaker 4: I've got to get this budget thing done, and if

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Speaker 4: I get everything squared away, I'll go on a trip.

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Speaker 4: Otherwise I can't make it. It wasn't having fun.

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Speaker 3: Far from it. Frankie increasingly felt his life was in

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Speaker 3: danger and carried a gun everywhere. One memory from a

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Speaker 3: visit at the time still haunts Pat.

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Speaker 4: And I was sleeping in the family room and I

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Speaker 4: opened up a slanting glass door that opened up on

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Speaker 4: his backyard and in a matter a couple of minutes,

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Speaker 4: he was there closing the door and putting the bar

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Speaker 4: back out, and I said, what's the matter. He said, well,

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Speaker 4: you can never be two security concious. I don't know.

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Speaker 4: It just didn't occur to me. It was two o'clock

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Speaker 4: in the morning or something, and I didn't give it

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Speaker 4: any more.

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Speaker 7: Thought.

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Speaker 4: I wish I had asked him what he was worried about.

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Speaker 3: That memory would pale in comparison to what Pat and

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Speaker 3: Kevin encountered at Mike's house after his murder.

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Speaker 4: We went out to his house, his wife and I,

351
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Speaker 4: her dad, and my brother Kevin was the police, to

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Speaker 4: pick up clothing for the funeral people. There was a

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Speaker 4: forty five caliber pistol in the bed that had been

354
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Speaker 4: under his pillow, and a twelve gage state riotgun leaning

355
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Speaker 4: against the door that opened out slanting glass door that

356
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Speaker 4: opened out onto a deck and Scott's mills. The deck

357
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Speaker 4: and a sidewalk down below were littered with hundreds and

358
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Speaker 4: hundreds of spent twelve gage shotgun shells. Even out there

359
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Speaker 4: doing the walk practicing with that twelve gage, I don't

360
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Speaker 4: know why that isn't a normal activity. I don't think

361
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Speaker 4: I don't think that's how I would want to spend

362
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Speaker 4: my life sleeping with a pistol under my pillow.

363
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Speaker 3: And Michael also wanted his wife, Binta to be able

364
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Speaker 3: to protect herself. Here's Chuck Sides again.

365
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Speaker 6: He told me he was teaching her to shoot, but

366
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Speaker 6: I didn't realize it was a shotgun and all that

367
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Speaker 6: other stuff. But there was probably twenty five shells laying

368
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Speaker 6: around her more or less, and I went, oh, that

369
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Speaker 6: was that understanding that things were getting tense here and

370
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Speaker 6: he wanted her to know. And that's what he told

371
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Speaker 6: me when he said, I had its teacher on a

372
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Speaker 6: shoot a handgun. And that's when I first got my

373
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Speaker 6: eyes open. As you know, his life had been threatened

374
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Speaker 6: and he wanted her to know how to handle herself

375
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Speaker 6: and handle a gun.

376
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Speaker 3: Phil Stamford thinks Michael Frankie's investigation into corruption within his

377
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Speaker 3: department fueled that concern.

378
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Speaker 2: Some years later, it became clear there was actually photographic

379
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Speaker 2: evidence that he was indeed going to discuss corruption that

380
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 2: morning before the Legislative committee, because we have a picture

381
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Speaker 2: of his whiteboard. He was using that evening with his

382
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,399
Speaker 2: staff to talk about what his speech was about, and

383
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Speaker 2: At the bottom was one item called the A shed.

384
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Speaker 2: There was a warehouse on prison property that had burned down.

385
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Speaker 2: Well as we know now, although there's been no certainly

386
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: no desire by any state officials to admit it, it

387
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 2: was arson for insurance purposes, and he knew it. He'd

388
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Speaker 2: gotten onto it, and he was going to discuss it.

389
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Speaker 2: There at the bottom on that whiteboard was the A shed.

390
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Speaker 2: It was the last thing he was going to talk

391
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Speaker 2: about him, which means it was what he wanted to

392
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Speaker 2: leave the legislators with. He was going after his top staff.

393
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Speaker 2: Heads were going to roll, yeah.

394
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Speaker 3: They were, and instead he gets murdered. Yes, six forty

395
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Speaker 3: five pm on January seventeenth, nineteen eighty nine, the night

396
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Speaker 3: before he was to present the findings of his investigation

397
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: Michael Frank. He walked out of the Dome Building, headquarters

398
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Speaker 3: of the Oregon Department of Corrections. Forty minutes later, Elise

399
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: Clausen found his car with the driver's side door open.

400
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Speaker 7: I went out the front steps and the door to

401
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 7: his car was open, and I hollered at him because

402
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 7: I couldn't see him, and I had this really creepy feeling,

403
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 7: and then I walked over to his car and he

404
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 7: wasn't there, and the driver's side door was wide open.

405
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 7: And that's when I went in and searched everywhere, like

406
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 7: I said, and called and when security got there and

407
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 7: they started to drive around. At that point I left.

408
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 7: I kind of kept waiting in and I thought, I

409
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 7: guess I'll go. So I left and drove home and

410
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 7: remember telling my husband about what had happened, and I

411
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 7: could not go to sleep, and I said to him

412
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 7: before he had sleep, I said, I just had this

413
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 7: horrible feeling something's happened to Michael.

414
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 3: After a four hour search, his body was found outside

415
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: the office building's north entrance. He had been stabbed in

416
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Speaker 3: the heart and was lying in a pool of his

417
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 3: own blood and the glass he shattered trying to get

418
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: back inside.

419
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 7: Roby Eldridge, who is our information officer, called and he

420
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 7: said Michael's been killed. And I said, oh my god,

421
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 7: I knew it.

422
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 3: Chuck Sides, like many others, found out Mike was murdered

423
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 3: on the local news.

424
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 10: I learned about it from the TV and it was

425
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 10: on early and then I drove immediately. Our house is

426
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Speaker 10: only about fifteen minutes away, and there's this large crowd

427
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,680
Speaker 10: of people, and you know, you got the reporters, you

428
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 10: got the investigators, you got everything.

429
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 3: He arrived on the scene in a state of disbelief

430
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: and shock.

431
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 6: I got there before they quickly threw up the yellow

432
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 6: tape of that type of thing, which I thought was interesting. Later,

433
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 6: but Michael had gone from his car, crawled up the steps,

434
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 6: went over to the double doors and couldn't get it open,

435
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,239
Speaker 6: and then punched it, reached in, but he couldn't get

436
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 6: the thing opening.

437
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 3: Laid down to day there.

438
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 11: The big mystery that morning was why did it take

439
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 11: them so long to find Mike's body when it was

440
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 11: right there, twenty thirty feet from his car. It's right

441
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 11: there on the portico otherwise the porch of the building,

442
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 11: And why no one saw it before that point is

443
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 11: still a mystery everybody.

444
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,199
Speaker 3: That's Eric Mason, a local television reporter sent out to

445
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 3: cover the murder.

446
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 11: I think the call was, there's a dead body over

447
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 11: there at the Dome building. Get over there right away.

448
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 11: There's hardlydy details about it, and we'll be going live

449
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 11: at the New Hour with you. Everybody was grim faced.

450
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 11: It was a dark, gray morning. I remember the four

451
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 11: door sedan that he was driving was out there. It

452
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 11: was still parked where he'd parked it. I was surprised

453
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 11: at how close we're able to walk right up to

454
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 11: the yellow tape where the car was. And the only

455
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 11: place that they really didn't want you walking through was

456
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 11: the pathway from the car, right up the steps right

457
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 11: to Mike's office. The district attorney himself, the head DA

458
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 11: was out walking around, and that's where you knew something

459
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 11: big had just happened. As so it was clear someone

460
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 11: big had been murdered.

461
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: Kevin and Pat were both notified by phone. Kevin was

462
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 3: in Florida.

463
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 4: What's going through my mind, I think is probably what

464
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 4: goes through everybody's mind when you get a tragic event,

465
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 4: is that I knew in my heart that I would

466
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 4: get out here and somebody would tell me it's a

467
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 4: big mistake. It was somebody else. Mike's okay, he's over here,

468
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 4: the person up on the patio with somebody else. The

469
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 4: gist of my thinking and feeling was this overwhelming grief

470
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: and sadness, but that brilliant hope of light saying that

471
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 4: there's got to be some botch up here, that it

472
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 4: was somebody else.

473
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: Or it was not like Pott received a call in Missouri,

474
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: where he was in the middle of work.

475
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: My pager went off like three times in a row.

476
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 4: I dialed my answering service and they said, you have

477
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: an emergency call from Oregon, and they gave me a

478
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 4: phone number and I called and it was Dick Peterson,

479
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 4: who was my assistant, and he told me and I

480
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 4: went absolutely berserve, to the point that I scared the

481
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 4: hell out of the three people in the office because

482
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 4: I was absolutely screaming at the phone. I was motherfucking everybody.

483
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: They didn't know what I was talking about, what was

484
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 4: going on. The governor got on the phone and expressed

485
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: his condolences, and I didn't know Neil Goldschmid from mechanic Corn.

486
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 4: At that point, I didn't care. I was just absolutely flabbergasted,

487
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 4: pissed off to beat hell.

488
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: Kevin immediately took a plane to Oregon.

489
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: I slammed a lot of JB. Sketch on the racks

490
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: on the airplane, trying to numb it, and nothing to

491
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 4: go down. I mean, sketch would, but my emotions wouldn't.

492
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 4: And I felt the airplane sliding down and I could

493
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 4: see the clouds out there. Landing lights came on and

494
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 4: it was just this sick, dark cloud and then settled down,

495
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 4: gliding in on the Columbia River, seeing the city of

496
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 4: Portland ahead of us. I thought, shit, this in a dream.

497
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 4: This is it. It was tough.

498
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: Pat had to break the brutal news to their parents.

499
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 4: Nobody answered at the house. It turns out my dad

500
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: was running there and shopping doing something. Mother volunteered at

501
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 4: the University of Kansas Medical Center. So I went over

502
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 4: there and went in and she said, what are you

503
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 4: doing here? I said, I just came over to see

504
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: you good looking, And she came up. She introduced me

505
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 4: to all the ladies and she said, what's what's going on.

506
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 4: Helen Frank is a smart gal? I said, might She's

507
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 4: been in an accident, and she got She got a

508
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 4: hold of me, got in my face and she said

509
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 4: that he did. I said, let's get the hell out

510
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 4: of here. And I thought, I'm saying about that and

511
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 4: somebody's gone. Somebody needs to pay for that. I thought.

512
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 4: It was absolutely crushed my mother. They were torn to pieces.

513
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: It ruined a lot of lives.

514
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 3: Kevin arrived in Oregon first and waited for Pat at

515
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 3: the airport.

516
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 4: Al Chandler with the Department of Corrections picked me up

517
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 4: at the gate with the old airport side Kevin Frankie,

518
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 4: and introduced himself and he asked me if I had

519
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: a luggage or anything, and I said, no, I've got

520
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 4: my bag, And he said, you want to go have

521
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 4: a smoke down there, and he filled me in on

522
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 4: as much information as he had, and basically all he

523
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 4: had was what was forthcoming from the press conference they

524
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 4: had the morning at nine o'clock and we had to

525
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 4: sit there and wait for two hours for Pat's plane

526
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 4: that was delayed in Salt Lake City to get in.

527
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 4: And I remember seeing Pat, he looked like he just

528
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: had the weight of the world at his shoulders. How

529
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 4: are you gods just hug each other? Oh? I said,

530
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: Was it true.

531
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: That?

532
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 4: Who was that?

533
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 3: Local authorities were quick to label Michael's murder a car

534
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: burglary gone bad, but it was clear to many there

535
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: was much more to it, including former Senator Jim Hill.

536
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 8: Yes, people getting robbed all the time, they don't get murdered.

537
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 8: Right from the beginning, it struck me as being very odd.

538
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 8: The whole car Arbory thing never made any sense to me.

539
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 3: Alice Clawsan got the same story from the police.

540
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 7: There was nothing about it that seemed to me that

541
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 7: carburglery made any sense. There was conversation among people that

542
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 7: felt like this was meant for him. I always thought

543
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 7: it was.

544
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: Chuck Sides thought it odd for a criminal tutar get

545
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: a state workers car.

546
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 6: They don't have a lot of discretionary income. They don't

547
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 6: have normal things that some of the private sector has.

548
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 6: That doesn't make sense to me.

549
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 3: Reporter Eric Mason thought things just didn't add up. Given

550
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: Mike's nearly six foot four inch athletic build.

551
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 11: If someone was just jockey boxing cars and going through

552
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 11: cars and looking for stuff in the car, Mike could

553
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 11: have taken anybody on and won easily at a fistfight.

554
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 3: Mike wasn't naive. He had a car alarm, was usually armed,

555
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 3: and was anticipating a threat. Here's Phil Stamford.

556
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: He knew it was a very dangerous business, and he

557
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: didn't let people get close to him in the yard.

558
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine how he let someone get close

559
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,240
Speaker 2: enough to stab him. That's one of the first things

560
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 2: that Kevin and Tad spoke publicly about. They were told

561
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: be careful what you say to the press, don't talk

562
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: to the press. But they did talk about how this

563
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 2: didn't make sense to them. Well, if it was a robbery,

564
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 2: how come he still had his watch, still had his money,

565
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 2: his wald was.

566
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 5: Still on him.

567
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that doesn't seem to make sense.

568
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't. It's one of the first things that

569
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 2: caught my attention to.

570
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: There were crimes that you could commit back then because

571
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: the prisons were so overcrowded that the worst case scenario

572
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 4: would be you would be at the next day the

573
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 4: jockey box in the car would be a site and

574
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 4: release ninety nine nine percent of the time because you're

575
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 4: going to get what's basically a parking ticket. The worst

576
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 4: thing you could do is try to kill somebody.

577
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 3: Over So a random car break accelerating into murder seemed

578
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 3: to stretch. Why would a small time criminal trying to

579
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 3: pil for a glove compartment kill someone and risk life

580
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,760
Speaker 3: in prison when they could just as easily run away.

581
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: Neil Goldschmidt finally addressed the press and the public about

582
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 3: the incident. Here's Eric Mason again.

583
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 4: We ended up.

584
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 11: Over at the Capitol for a really grim faced Neil Goldschmidt.

585
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 11: At the time He looked shell shocked, and I thought

586
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 11: to myself, Wow, this is a new hire. He's just

587
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 11: hired Mike Frankie. He must have become fairly close to

588
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 11: Mike if he looks shell shocked and there's almost like

589
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 11: tears in his eyes.

590
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: Here's Neil Goldschmidt at that press conference.

591
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 12: It is very hard to walk the halls in the

592
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 12: legislature today because there's a force that's missing. The violence

593
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 12: seems to go on almost endlessly in this difficult time.

594
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 12: It is perhaps well to ask which direction we are

595
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 12: headed as a state and as a people.

596
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 11: Only later would we understand that. I think what was

597
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 11: going on there was the governor thinking my own secrets

598
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,280
Speaker 11: might come rolling out of the closet.

599
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 3: Will Stanford believes Mike Frankie was about to expose far

600
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: too many secrets with an Oregon's Department of Corrections.

601
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: There were a number of high ranking corrections officials who

602
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 2: had very good reasons to be happy that Michael Frankie

603
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 2: wasn't around. I'm careful to say that that doesn't mean

604
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: they were involved in the murder, But if you're looking

605
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: to investigate the murder of a public official, you'd at

606
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: least look at them, and they were virtually ignored by

607
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 2: the state police investigators. The important thing to remember, Lauren

608
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: is that the same people who conducted the Frankie murder

609
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: investigation also conducted the eighty six investigation, the same DA

610
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: day O Penn, the same state police officers.

611
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 3: Wow.

612
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 2: So of course they couldn't admit there was the possibility

613
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 2: of corruption behind the murder of Michael Frankie because they'd

614
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 2: gone out of their way to cover up the corruption,

615
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 2: and that was there when he got there.

616
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: Mike's brother Kevin agrees from.

617
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 4: Day one, I didn't believe that if somebody was stealing

618
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 4: something out of Mike's celth compartment and kill them, the

619
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: whole scenario, everything just seemed absolutely wrong because of what

620
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 4: I knew about my brother, about his I'm not going

621
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 4: to be a hostage mentality.

622
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 3: Kevin and Phil were about to dive into an unimaginable

623
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: world of corruption and depravity that would nearly ruin Phil's career.

624
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 2: It seemed unfair to have the paper, I mean, especially

625
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 2: while I was there, attack me, you.

626
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 3: Know, put Kevin's life at risk.

627
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 4: Tell me to turn around. I wasn't going to turn around.

628
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 4: I told me to get on my knees, and I

629
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 4: know you gotta do it. Put it right between my

630
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 4: fucking eyes.

631
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 3: And expose the seediest underbelly of Oregon. I was thirteen.

632
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 3: What did your mom do to you?

633
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 9: She sold me for drugs.

634
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 3: As having deep ties to the very people who were

635
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 3: supposed to police it.

636
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 8: Dirty Cox, Dirty Town Salem's the most crap place in

637
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 8: a new place you can find in the United States.

638
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: Michael Frankie's killers were never brought to justice, and you'll

639
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 3: find out why this season of Murder and Oregon.

640
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is hosted by Lauren Bright Pacheco and

641
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 1: Phil Stanford. Executive producers are Noel Brown, Lauren Bright Pacheco,

642
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: and Phil Stanford. Supervising producer and lead editor is Taylor Chacogne.

643
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: Sound designed by Tristan McNeil, Story editing by Matt Riddle,

644
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: Written by Phil Stanford, Matt Riddle, and Lauren Bright Pacheco.

645
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 1: Music written and performed by the Diamond Street Players and

646
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: mixed by Taylor Chaqoine with music supervision by Noel Brown.

647
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: Murder in Oregon is a production of iHeartRadio