Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording pre recording from the
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, once again, I am so excited to
Speaker 1: be bringing you this week of stories from powerful powerhouse
Speaker 1: women across multiple industries, and today is no different. Today
Speaker 1: I'm in conversation with Renee excuse me, Renee Bracy Sherman,
Speaker 1: who is the CEO behind Abortion Stories, and we testify.
Speaker 1: You know, folks, I have been talking about abortion on
Speaker 1: this show, probably more than I have since I began
Speaker 1: woke F many years ago, and it's because I realized
Speaker 1: for the very first time that abortion is under assault
Speaker 1: more now than it was when Rove Wade was passed
Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy four. And as we make the
Speaker 1: slow Death March to June, when the Supreme Court will
Speaker 1: provide the death knell to Rove Wade, which provided abortion
Speaker 1: access to women and people with uteruses across this country
Speaker 1: for the last forty seven sid years, we'll come to
Speaker 1: an end and Renee will talk today about why it's
Speaker 1: so important for us to tell abortion stories and actually
Speaker 1: utter the word abortion instead of saying reproductive care or
Speaker 1: women's rights, why it's important to name this thing. And
Speaker 1: she will also talk about her push with her organization,
Speaker 1: we Testify to get the Abiden administration to finally utter
Speaker 1: the word abortion. She brought up something interesting that I
Speaker 1: kind of want to talk about in my opening today,
Speaker 1: which was this, why is it that the left right,
Speaker 1: the quote unquote left, is so against uttering the word abortion,
Speaker 1: but the right uses it all the time. So by
Speaker 1: virtue of the right using the word abortion, right, whether
Speaker 1: they're talking about you know, oh, yes, a fetus was
Speaker 1: aborted at you know, thirty six weeks, which by the way,
Speaker 1: never actually happens, but they have been able to claim
Speaker 1: the word, and they've been able to shroud it in
Speaker 1: shame and make us apologetic about even uttering it, let
Speaker 1: alone having one. And I know several women, different ethnicities,
Speaker 1: different economic status who have had abortions, and they tell
Speaker 1: me that each and every one of them. Was it
Speaker 1: a difficult decision? Yes, sure it is. But would their
Speaker 1: lives be dramatically different? Would they have had the careers
Speaker 1: that they have had, would they have had the schooling
Speaker 1: that they have had, would they have had the opportunity
Speaker 1: that they have had that getting an abortion actually provided
Speaker 1: them with. And you see, Democrats had walked themselves into
Speaker 1: a corner where we're afraid to say the word. Where
Speaker 1: we were the ones that came up with the campaign
Speaker 1: slogan of you know, safe and rare right for the
Speaker 1: use of abortion. We've come up with all of this
Speaker 1: flowery language instead of just calling a thing what it is.
Speaker 1: There is power in naming something. There is power in
Speaker 1: taking that name back right and making it so that no,
Speaker 1: we're not talking about Roe v. Wade, and we're not
Speaker 1: talking about a woman's constitutional right. We are talking about abortion,
Speaker 1: and that abortion is a part of family planning. An
Speaker 1: abortion is a part of healthcare. One of the things
Speaker 1: that Renee brings up as well in our conversation is
Speaker 1: the fact that when Roe v. Wade was first passed
Speaker 1: in the early to mid nineteen seventies, the federal government,
Speaker 1: by virtue of Medicare and Medicaid, you are allowed to
Speaker 1: use your money right the federal government gave you to
Speaker 1: get an abortion. It would be then the High Amendment
Speaker 1: that would make it illegal for you to use federal
Speaker 1: funds in order to access an abortion. That was one
Speaker 1: of the first pushes by the Republican Party and it
Speaker 1: was met with absolutely no pushback. And because of that,
Speaker 1: throughout the years, we have seen abortion access and rights
Speaker 1: and what that actually means shrink over time. And now
Speaker 1: we are in a situation where the people in Texas
Speaker 1: have to flee to bordering states, and now the right
Speaker 1: is not even just okay with that. They're not okay
Speaker 1: with just shutting down abortion in their state. Now they're
Speaker 1: trying to pass legislation that says that if you go
Speaker 1: into a different state where abortion is legal, but you
Speaker 1: come back and it's found out that you had an
Speaker 1: abortion while you were in California or New York or Massachusetts,
Speaker 1: then you can be criminally charged. Think about the ramifications
Speaker 1: for that, folks, Think about if you can do that
Speaker 1: with abortion, what else can you do that with? Right.
Speaker 1: This is when we talk about the fact that abortion
Speaker 1: has always been the rights bullhorn right. They've always used
Speaker 1: it as a way to rally their troops, and for
Speaker 1: half the population right that doesn't have a uterus, they
Speaker 1: have made abortion a women's rights issue instead of a
Speaker 1: person issue, and by virtue of that, we have allowed
Speaker 1: for this to be the problem of those people over
Speaker 1: there not recognizing that what the Right always does, is
Speaker 1: that they start with the low hanging fruit folks, and
Speaker 1: then they see, oh did anybody try and check us?
Speaker 1: Did we get any lawsuits waged against us? Oh? No, nothing,
Speaker 1: you see anything over here? No great, Let's keep bulldozing
Speaker 1: over everyone else's civil rights. Let's move to the next community,
Speaker 1: to the next group. It has always been the path
Speaker 1: that Republicans take, which is that if they see no
Speaker 1: real resistance, then they just keep going. And the reality
Speaker 1: is is that we need to put up that fight.
Speaker 1: We need to have been vigilant this entire time, and
Speaker 1: not just assuming that because something went up to the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court and was passed, that the Supreme Court doesn't
Speaker 1: change over time. It fucking does they die or they retire,
Speaker 1: given whatever president is in power at that time. A
Speaker 1: less of course, it's a black man giving them the
Speaker 1: right to be able to seat those justices. So why
Speaker 1: would we think that if ever there was a time
Speaker 1: for the radical right to now have a six three court,
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't try and succeed in overturning all of
Speaker 1: the things that took fifty plus years for us to
Speaker 1: get in the first place. We weren't paying attention and
Speaker 1: This is part of the conversation that I will have
Speaker 1: with Renee, which is, where do you think that Democrats
Speaker 1: went wrong here? You know, for every year we always
Speaker 1: seem to cry wolf about the courts, but not in unison,
Speaker 1: not with an education campaign right to the public as
Speaker 1: to why the courts are important. Why there was no
Speaker 1: fucking pushback. Like I said last week to fucking Mitch McConnell,
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell had no constitutional right to hold up a
Speaker 1: Supreme Court seat, but because Democrats are so fucking chicken shit,
Speaker 1: they let him do it. And now we got another
Speaker 1: sexual offender, right, people who the ABA doesn't even believe
Speaker 1: are qualified to be Supreme Court justices sitting there by
Speaker 1: virtue of the fact that oh, I wrote a memo
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump so he knew that I was his woman,
Speaker 1: Amy Covid, Barrett and Brett Kavanaugh and Gorsitch. That should
Speaker 1: have never happened. Donald Trump most should have had one,
Speaker 1: maybe two Supreme Court seats. But we just let it go.
Speaker 1: And now, for the first time ever, Roe is not
Speaker 1: going to be the law of the land. Now we're
Speaker 1: going to have to fight tooth and nail to get
Speaker 1: something back that we should have never lost in the
Speaker 1: first fucking place. So my conversation with Renee, she will
Speaker 1: also lay out the real scenarios that are already unfolding,
Speaker 1: what the handmaid's tail looks like in Tennessee, in Texas,
Speaker 1: in Florida, in Mississippi, in Alabama, and how it is
Speaker 1: that we should not be sitting here saying, well, at
Speaker 1: least I live in a blue state, because she will
Speaker 1: talk about that and what blue states are going to
Speaker 1: be up against. We are living in some trying, trying
Speaker 1: times and its people like Renee Bracy Sherman who have
Speaker 1: been doing the work, been on the front lines, powering
Speaker 1: through so that we as people have access to abortions,
Speaker 1: that we listen to the stories of people who have
Speaker 1: had abortions, so that we are educated, so that we
Speaker 1: are thoughtful and we know what we're fighting for. I
Speaker 1: hope that you enjoy this conversation coming up next, folks.
Speaker 1: I am very excited to welcome to Okay f Daily
Speaker 1: for it the very first time, Renee Bracy Sherman, who
Speaker 1: is the CEO and head of We Testify, an organization
Speaker 1: that looks at and uplifts stories with regard to abortion Renee.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the time to join
Speaker 1: woke f now must be a real critical time for
Speaker 1: your work, and I don't want to I don't want
Speaker 1: to say that lightly as if there is probably a
Speaker 1: non critical time, But you know, I mean, I have
Speaker 1: never in my lifetime. So I want to ask you
Speaker 1: about yours seeing such an unrelenting attack on abortion rights
Speaker 1: in modern times like we are seeing right now. Tell
Speaker 1: us first a bit about your organization, and then how
Speaker 1: you are feeling in this moment. Yeah, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for having me. I'm really excited to be here.
Speaker 1: It has been just an all out, unrelenting attack on
Speaker 1: abortion access for so long. It's been over a decade
Speaker 1: of just NonStop restrictions, wacky bills that people used to
Speaker 1: laugh at and say, this is ridiculous. I can't believe
Speaker 1: you would, you know, somebody would propose this that are
Speaker 1: actually now enacted, and that they're really pushing forward to
Speaker 1: keep us from being able to access an abortion. And
Speaker 1: so a lot of the nightmare realities that we've all
Speaker 1: been afraid of are coming true. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what's scariest about it. I think so many people assumed
Speaker 1: five ten years ago. They're never going to overturn Row.
Speaker 1: Why are you all like going on and on about this.
Speaker 1: It's not that big a deal. I remember being at
Speaker 1: various conferences or events and a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of progressives, particularly white progressives and men, would say, you know,
Speaker 1: this isn't really that big of a deal. They're never
Speaker 1: going to do that. It's not politically advantageous for Republicans
Speaker 1: to overturn Row. But again, it's because they don't actually
Speaker 1: think that abortion is essential to how we make our families.
Speaker 1: They don't understand the connection to protecting abortion access to
Speaker 1: healthcare overall to liberation for all of us and how
Speaker 1: we create our families, and also the way in which
Speaker 1: attacks on abortion access are so deeply connected to white
Speaker 1: supremacy and white supremacist ideology, fascism, the way in which
Speaker 1: they want to be able to control how we live
Speaker 1: our lives and our families. And so that's actually part
Speaker 1: of why I started my organization We Testify, because when
Speaker 1: I started sharing my abortion story a little over ten
Speaker 1: years ago, I was often one of the only, if
Speaker 1: not the only, person of color on a panel. There
Speaker 1: was no trans inclusion, There was really no queer inclusion.
Speaker 1: Often I was asked to represent, as a biracial black
Speaker 1: woman all people of color and our abortion experiences, and
Speaker 1: everyone else on the panel would often be white people
Speaker 1: who haven't had abortions. A couple of times there would
Speaker 1: be some who did. And when I learned the statistic
Speaker 1: that the majority of people who have abortions are people
Speaker 1: of color, the majority are living at or just above
Speaker 1: the poverty level, the majority are already parenting, I thought,
Speaker 1: what would it take for us to actually make sure
Speaker 1: that the stories that we hear are reflective of the
Speaker 1: reality of who is having abortions and why. And of course,
Speaker 1: part of the reason we don't hear those stories is
Speaker 1: because white supremacy, white privilege, all of those things still
Speaker 1: operate within progressive spaces. Right we get to decide, you say,
Speaker 1: these are the charismatic leaders who often end up being
Speaker 1: white people. They're the ones who get funded in repro
Speaker 1: It's a lot of white women, white women who haven't
Speaker 1: had abortions, because it's kind of this idea that people
Speaker 1: who have had abortions those the people we serve, not
Speaker 1: necessarily the people who are destined to lead us. And
Speaker 1: so I've been working a lot over the last ten
Speaker 1: years to change who's at the table, whose stories we hear.
Speaker 1: And yes, it's important to hear abortion stories, and that
Speaker 1: is a large crux of the work that I do,
Speaker 1: but that's actually just the end. The end is actually
Speaker 1: to change the leaders at the a table, to make
Speaker 1: sure that organizations that are working on abortion access have
Speaker 1: a leadership that is reflective of people who have abortions,
Speaker 1: but particularly the demographics of who has abortions, Like I said,
Speaker 1: for melon carcerated folks, immigrants, people of color, folks who've
Speaker 1: been on medicaid, right, that is just not the reality
Speaker 1: right now, and I think that it shows up in
Speaker 1: the priorities of what the abortion rights movement has been
Speaker 1: fighting for or not fighting for for the last almost
Speaker 1: fifty years. Rene, do you feel, you know, wokaf is
Speaker 1: by virtue of a political show, right, and so, but
Speaker 1: I see politics in every shape and form of our lives.
Speaker 1: Do you see do you believe that Democrats have done
Speaker 1: a poor job in terms of talking about abortion and
Speaker 1: how it has always been at risk? I mean because
Speaker 1: I say that I asked that question assuming that we
Speaker 1: shared the same answer, which is yes, right, But but
Speaker 1: you know, but at the same time, you know, it's
Speaker 1: been forty seven years that we've had Roe v. Wade,
Speaker 1: damn near fifty, right, So the assumption was, oh, this
Speaker 1: is codified law. And I don't know why anybody made
Speaker 1: that goddamn assumption. So like, what where do you where
Speaker 1: do you see in the last decade since you've been
Speaker 1: doing this work, Where do you see that there could
Speaker 1: have been changes or pivots that could have avoided the moment,
Speaker 1: the Handmaid's tail moment that we are in now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean actually next year marks the fiftieth anniversary okay
Speaker 1: of what would would would right if it lasts? Which? Right? Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's scary, right, depending on what
Speaker 1: they say in June, it's not going to make it
Speaker 1: to fifty honestly. And the reality is that it effectively
Speaker 1: is not real for so many people across this country.
Speaker 1: If you are on Medicaid, you cannot use your health
Speaker 1: insurance to pay for your abortion. And that is something
Speaker 1: that is a policy, is something that Democrats have defended
Speaker 1: for over forty five years. It is only within the
Speaker 1: last couple of years that we got the Democratic Party
Speaker 1: to stand in opposition to the High Amendment. The federal
Speaker 1: ban on abortion coverage, to standing in opposition to that,
Speaker 1: and then to finally get a presidential candidate speaking out
Speaker 1: about it, and one presidential candidate who then became president,
Speaker 1: in particular President Biden, he had to be pushed with
Speaker 1: the rest of the field standing in opposition to it,
Speaker 1: he had to be pushed and change his position. That
Speaker 1: is a lot of advocacy work that we've had to do,
Speaker 1: which I'm really proud of the work that we've done.
Speaker 1: But also, if we are saying that Democrats are the
Speaker 1: party of protecting abortion access, why did we have to
Speaker 1: push that hard to make sure that black and brown folks,
Speaker 1: poor folks, poor white folks, anybody on Medicaid, anybody on
Speaker 1: medicare disabled folks have access to abortion coverage. Why did
Speaker 1: we have to fight so hard. If you believe that
Speaker 1: abortion is the law of the land and everyone should
Speaker 1: have equitable access to it, then you should not support
Speaker 1: any abortion bands at any time and for any reason,
Speaker 1: because it will harm someone's access. I am also really
Speaker 1: proud of the fact that we have gone from politicians
Speaker 1: saying things like safe legal and rare, really stigmatizing abortion
Speaker 1: right and not encouraging us who've had abortions, to share
Speaker 1: our stories to move to the point that we My
Speaker 1: organization has a campaign right now that is demanding that
Speaker 1: the president used the word abortion. He has been in
Speaker 1: office over four hundred days and he refuses to use
Speaker 1: the word abortion. It took two hundred and twenty four
Speaker 1: days of US pushing for his administration to use the
Speaker 1: word abortion. In a written statement that his staffers wrote,
Speaker 1: wrote like, shout out to the staffers who did that.
Speaker 1: But if you are saying that you are a pro
Speaker 1: choice president, and you are saying that you believe in
Speaker 1: the right to an abortion, and you want to codify ROWE,
Speaker 1: why are you unable to say the word abortion. It
Speaker 1: is not a bad word. It's not going to get
Speaker 1: censored on TV. I mean, but you know what, literally
Speaker 1: it actually kind of does. I was watching I feel
Speaker 1: like I was watching something recently and you know, it
Speaker 1: was like, I think it was an old episode of
Speaker 1: Will and Grace and they were like and they were
Speaker 1: refused to say the word abortion. And I said, you
Speaker 1: say shit and fuck on television, right, but you can't
Speaker 1: say abortion? What does that mean? And I know that, Like,
Speaker 1: so what do you how do you see the power
Speaker 1: in utilizing that word, because you a part of what
Speaker 1: you do is to you don't say we're telling pro
Speaker 1: choice stories or we're telling reproductive health stories. You say
Speaker 1: we're telling abortion stories. What is the power? What what
Speaker 1: what power do you see in that word? And what
Speaker 1: would it mean for it to come out of the
Speaker 1: mouth of the President of the United States. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: simply put, I didn't go to the clinic to have
Speaker 1: a constitutionally protected right by rov Wade. I went to
Speaker 1: have an abortion. And I think that when we talk
Speaker 1: about things very clearly, we are open about it. Right.
Speaker 1: Conservatives are not afraid of using the word abortion. They've
Speaker 1: kind of pushed it so that it is this dirty
Speaker 1: word and that people are afraid to defend it. And
Speaker 1: I think that when we talk about something openly right,
Speaker 1: we name what it is and we take away the
Speaker 1: stigma and oh, you can't talk about it up, you know,
Speaker 1: in public. It's not polite dinner conversation. Why it is
Speaker 1: a healthcare procedure. It is a procedure that made my
Speaker 1: life the way that it is, and it has shaped
Speaker 1: millions of families across this country. But why is it
Speaker 1: that any type of reproductive healthcare, anything that deals with
Speaker 1: our bodies, whether it's trans healthcare, whether it's prenatal care,
Speaker 1: any of those things. Periods that they're considered stigmatized and
Speaker 1: that we can't talk about them openly. I just saw
Speaker 1: the film, the Disney film or picks, our film Turning Red,
Speaker 1: which is about periods, essentially this little girl getting her
Speaker 1: period and the awkwardness of being a tween, and vidoms
Speaker 1: are upset about it, claiming that, oh, well, we don't
Speaker 1: like that film because it's, you know, a little girl
Speaker 1: disobeying her parents, which so is a little Mermaid. Okay,
Speaker 1: so is Beauty and the Beast. They all are right,
Speaker 1: but I think actually, at the core of it, they
Speaker 1: don't want to name the thing, but they're uncomfortable with
Speaker 1: a film talking about bodies and periods and reproduction, and
Speaker 1: they're afraid that people will see that we can talk
Speaker 1: about these things in a thoughtful way, We can talk
Speaker 1: about them within our families, We can get rid of
Speaker 1: the stigma and the shame, and that it's okay. And
Speaker 1: I think I often hear a lot of people say
Speaker 1: to me, well, it's just a word, Renee, what's the difference?
Speaker 1: Who cares? What the president says it, he's on our side,
Speaker 1: And my response is, one, if it's just a word,
Speaker 1: why won't he Why won't use it? Right? So you'll
Speaker 1: use the right. They say it's just a word, what's
Speaker 1: the big deal? And then you say it, right, it's
Speaker 1: just a word, what's the big say it? So say it?
Speaker 1: And I guess the question is why do you use
Speaker 1: triple the amount of characters in a tweet to say
Speaker 1: women's constitutionally protected healthcare under Roe v. Wade when you
Speaker 1: can just say abortion? Abortion. My goal, my wish, my
Speaker 1: hope is that at some point the president will address
Speaker 1: us himself, because he has not come out and address
Speaker 1: the nation in a way that he should and the
Speaker 1: way that he should. He has on so many other issues, right,
Speaker 1: what would it look like for him to come out
Speaker 1: and address the nation and say we're at a crisis.
Speaker 1: Conservatives are using abortion to destroy so many of the
Speaker 1: basic held protections of our constitution and our democracy because
Speaker 1: they are. What they're doing is they are using abortion
Speaker 1: and the central holdings in Roe v. Wade. If they
Speaker 1: can unsettle those, then what they can do is attack
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth Amendment, the right to privacy. They can attack
Speaker 1: federal jurisdiction and protections in over states. It is about abortion,
Speaker 1: but it is also beyond abortion. This is about trying
Speaker 1: to unsettle so many pieces of our democracy. He could
Speaker 1: talk about it in that way. He could talk about
Speaker 1: it and say, look, look, folks like I, like all
Speaker 1: of you, love someone who's had an abortion. I think
Speaker 1: that these laws are malarky, and I think that, you know,
Speaker 1: we should make sure everyone has access to abortion care
Speaker 1: at any time and any reason. All he has to
Speaker 1: do is come out and say that you know, these
Speaker 1: these are ridiculous that you are trying to allow citizens
Speaker 1: to sue other people for being able to access healthcare
Speaker 1: in their communities or also now the new laws or
Speaker 1: new bills are to sue them if they leave the
Speaker 1: state to access that healthcare. Oh yes, which sounds to
Speaker 1: me a bit like, oh, I don't know, communism and
Speaker 1: banning travel of citizens like freedom of movement. How does
Speaker 1: that work in a democracy. I'd be truly wild to
Speaker 1: me the way in which they want to be able
Speaker 1: to say, no, you cannot leave a state to go
Speaker 1: get healthcare. Oh and by the way, we're not going
Speaker 1: to give it to you here. But what I think
Speaker 1: is again the central holding in that is the abortion stigma.
Speaker 1: They want people to be afraid to tell their loved
Speaker 1: ones that they want an abortion. They want us to
Speaker 1: be afraid to go to people in our lives for help.
Speaker 1: That is why us sharing our abortion stories and talking
Speaker 1: about it. It's so scary to them because we're pushing
Speaker 1: back on all of the myths and the stigma and
Speaker 1: the lies, and it's absolute disinformation that they've been pushing. Right,
Speaker 1: they want to criminalize the idea of supporting loved ones
Speaker 1: in family at least, and I think it's simply that
Speaker 1: they that they want to keep people from being able
Speaker 1: to think about abortion as an option. I remember years
Speaker 1: ago Paul Ryan when he was I think Speaker of
Speaker 1: the House that you know, something like they we don't
Speaker 1: want to make an abortion like not a choice, We
Speaker 1: want to make it unthinkable. And that is that is it? Right?
Speaker 1: It is this idea that they want to criminalize people
Speaker 1: for helping one another, for even thinking about wanting an abortion.
Speaker 1: And I also think it's wild because like there are
Speaker 1: other things in which some things are legal in some
Speaker 1: states and not in others. Take marijuana for example, Right,
Speaker 1: you can fly to DC or California, and you know
Speaker 1: it's either it's decriminalized here in DC, it's legalized in California.
Speaker 1: In Oregon, right, you can buy weed, you could smoke it,
Speaker 1: enjoy and then go back to your home, let's say,
Speaker 1: in Missouri or to be where it's illegal. You did
Speaker 1: the thing in it's legal in that state. Imagine coming home,
Speaker 1: not doing it in your states, right, but still being
Speaker 1: sued for it because you went into a state where
Speaker 1: it is legal and you did it and you enjoyed. Right.
Speaker 1: That is essentially what that law in Missouri is trying
Speaker 1: to do. And Idaho as while later, what they're really
Speaker 1: trying to do is say if you leave the state
Speaker 1: to go get this constitutionally protected healthcare, you can be sued.
Speaker 1: That is nuts because if you think about it again,
Speaker 1: what other things can they do this too? If they
Speaker 1: can do this on abortion and this is but this
Speaker 1: is they would anything. This is the thing that I
Speaker 1: believe is the failure of messaging right by the Democratic
Speaker 1: Party is that you everything that Republicans are doing right
Speaker 1: now is a slippery slope. Everything right, So you start it,
Speaker 1: you start off in the schools, and you start and
Speaker 1: you target transy youth, right, Who do you think is
Speaker 1: going to be next? Do you think that they're going
Speaker 1: to stop there? You go ahead, and you and you
Speaker 1: target first, you make the first policy and legislation that
Speaker 1: you're putting out at about abortion in Texas, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it's in Florida, and then it's
Speaker 1: in Tennessee, and then it's in all of these places.
Speaker 1: They are not going to stop there. It is a
Speaker 1: game of how far can we go right? And what
Speaker 1: they are seeing right now is absolutely no opposition right
Speaker 1: from the Democratic Party in any way to defend right
Speaker 1: people with uteruses in these states that are under attack.
Speaker 1: And so you know, for me, it's like we need
Speaker 1: to tell the stories. We need the president to have
Speaker 1: a spine and to say and to say the word,
Speaker 1: to say abortion and to talk about abortion freely, because
Speaker 1: it is what it is, right like it is what
Speaker 1: it is. It is a necessary part of life. It
Speaker 1: is a necessary part of family planning, like it just is.
Speaker 1: And so to even entertain an idea of a Paul
Speaker 1: Ryan and of oh it needs to be something that
Speaker 1: is unthinkable, you know what should be unthinkable? Rape? You
Speaker 1: know what should be unthinkable incest, you know what should
Speaker 1: be unthinkable, human trafficking, none of those things which are
Speaker 1: which are carved out in any of the pieces of
Speaker 1: legislation that are happening, right, And so I feel what
Speaker 1: get I get so angry because I'm like, the opposition
Speaker 1: to this shouldn't be rocket science, right, it's just telling
Speaker 1: the truth as many times as you can it right. Truly,
Speaker 1: it's so simple. And I think what that the goal
Speaker 1: is that they're playing on the uncomfort that people have
Speaker 1: with abortion, with sexuality, the gender identity. They're playing on
Speaker 1: that and hoping that you see us as not you. Oh,
Speaker 1: that I would never need an abortion, I would never
Speaker 1: want one. I'm not trans. I don't know anyone's trans.
Speaker 1: That's not me. That's not something that's impacting my family
Speaker 1: and my life, which it is. But because you don't
Speaker 1: talk openly about it, the people in your life who
Speaker 1: are queer or trans or had abortions are probably not
Speaker 1: telling you about their experiences because they don't know how
Speaker 1: you're going to react. So that's why it's important that
Speaker 1: we talk about this openly. But they're hoping that the
Speaker 1: Democratic Party, that all of us, won't mount a defense
Speaker 1: enough that they can get it through, and then they
Speaker 1: can use it as a testing ground for something else,
Speaker 1: such as voting rights. They basically take a lot of
Speaker 1: the playbook that they use for abortion, and the way
Speaker 1: they've shut down clinics, the way they have waiting periods,
Speaker 1: all of those things. They've taken that, and then they
Speaker 1: actually apply it to things like voting rights, immigration. It's
Speaker 1: all at the exact same time because they know it's
Speaker 1: the same group of people. Again, the majority of people
Speaker 1: who have abortions are people of color. They know that
Speaker 1: if they can attack us on this, they can use
Speaker 1: it to attack us on everything else. And so, if
Speaker 1: you are not willing to defend the reproductive freedom, the
Speaker 1: ability to create families for people of color like you're,
Speaker 1: there's so much more that you're not willing to defend
Speaker 1: until it harms you. And again, this assault on abortion
Speaker 1: access has been happening for a long long time. It
Speaker 1: started with the High Amendment because after Roe v. Wade
Speaker 1: legalized abortion across the country, we did have a couple
Speaker 1: of years where Medicaid covered abortion, but they specifically went
Speaker 1: after the High Amendment because they knew it was impacting
Speaker 1: people of color, poor folks, poor white folks and what happened,
Speaker 1: nobody defended it. And then after that, that is when
Speaker 1: they started doing all the like personhood stuff where they
Speaker 1: basically went after people who had drug addictions, particularly black
Speaker 1: and brown pregnant people, criminalizing them for what happens to
Speaker 1: their pregnancies. They're criminalizing people for the outcomes of their
Speaker 1: pregnancies now, right, But that's been happening for forty some
Speaker 1: odd years. But people didn't pay attention why because it
Speaker 1: was happening to black and brown, because it was happening
Speaker 1: to people that they didn't care about. I mean that's
Speaker 1: I mean, this is that is the reality of war, right.
Speaker 1: You dehumanize people. You target people that no one will
Speaker 1: care about, and no one will come to their aid,
Speaker 1: and they will make it their fault. As to why
Speaker 1: you like it is, there is so much there's such
Speaker 1: a lack of empathy and understanding because we've dehumanized you
Speaker 1: to the point where you should just make better choices, right,
Speaker 1: you should, It's about you. You should just keep it.
Speaker 1: I posted a video, yeah, I posted a video just recently,
Speaker 1: and I had women about abortion, and I had women
Speaker 1: in the comments telling me, well, you just need to
Speaker 1: keep your legs closed, bitch, excuse me, right like you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's one of those things where I recognize that
Speaker 1: it isn't just the right you know, it isn't just
Speaker 1: the white evangelical Christians, It isn't just the right wing conservatives.
Speaker 1: It is the problem of people within within our own
Speaker 1: party right who haven't been who haven't been warriors for us,
Speaker 1: And that, to me, is the problem. So last question
Speaker 1: for you. We know where this is going in June,
Speaker 1: when the Supreme Court decides on the Mississippi case. We
Speaker 1: know that that is the end of row. What does
Speaker 1: the country look like Renee after June. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it's actually really terrifying to think about. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do us not to cry because I think it really
Speaker 1: stresses me out to think about this, right because what
Speaker 1: we see in Texas right now is we don't have
Speaker 1: to wait till June to know what it's going to
Speaker 1: look like. We already know. You can look at Texas,
Speaker 1: you can look at Mississippi. It is everywhere. And I
Speaker 1: think that's what's so frustrating and scary about it is
Speaker 1: that everyone keeps saying, well, would have after June, after
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court decides. The Supreme Court told us what
Speaker 1: they thought. Y'all just need to believe them the first
Speaker 1: time they told you. The fact that they took the
Speaker 1: case up told us that they were getting ready to
Speaker 1: overturn right, the fact that they let Texas allow Randos
Speaker 1: to sue people and effectively ban abortion after six weeks,
Speaker 1: which is mostly abortions at like they said, sure fine,
Speaker 1: despite robing quote unquote the law of the land right now,
Speaker 1: that should tell you that's the answer, right, Yeah. And
Speaker 1: I think this idea that well, people in red states
Speaker 1: will have to travel absolutely that's true. That I really
Speaker 1: need people to understand that everyone is probably going to
Speaker 1: have to travel, because what will happen is, yes, people
Speaker 1: in places where it is severely restricted and criminalized will
Speaker 1: have to come to states where it's more legalized, more available,
Speaker 1: but also appointments get booked up, and people it takes
Speaker 1: them longer and longer. I live in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: And people travel to Washington, d C. To be able
Speaker 1: to get abortion care here. Yes, from Florida and Mississippi
Speaker 1: and Alabama, but also from Massachusetts and New York. So
Speaker 1: this idea that oh, I live in a blue state,
Speaker 1: I'll be fine, No, you walked, It's stop it. It's
Speaker 1: not true. Everyone needs access, they deserve it in their communities.
Speaker 1: The other thing we're going to see is increased criminalization. Again,
Speaker 1: it is a thing that is already happening. People have
Speaker 1: miscarriages or are suspected of self managing their abortions, they
Speaker 1: go to the er asking for help, right, they tell
Speaker 1: their story to a trust and medical provider, and then
Speaker 1: that medical provider breaks that trust by calling the cops.
Speaker 1: So again it's a whole other conversation. But why defunding
Speaker 1: the police is an abortion access issue? Right? We have
Speaker 1: to decriminalize pregnancy and abortion. And then lastly, what I
Speaker 1: think we are seeing right now and I hope we
Speaker 1: have more of and folks can get involved in, is
Speaker 1: supporting local abortion funds to help people travel to be
Speaker 1: able to get their abortions and afford their abortions. And
Speaker 1: also we're going to see more self managed abortions, which
Speaker 1: I want to be clear, just because something is illegal
Speaker 1: does not mean it's unsafe. Self managed abortion is not
Speaker 1: always unsafe, right. There are, of course historically unsafe methods.
Speaker 1: But if you just take one methopristone pill and four
Speaker 1: mysopostal pills twenty four hours later. That's a medication abortion.
Speaker 1: Whether you get it via telemedicine from a doctor or
Speaker 1: a nurse at inside the clinic, or you order it
Speaker 1: online yourself, it is safe and so people can take
Speaker 1: it on their own safely at home. The only risk
Speaker 1: is criminalization. So let's say you start bleeding a little
Speaker 1: heavily and you're like, something's wrong even though it's going normal,
Speaker 1: and you go to your doctor and you're like, I
Speaker 1: want some help, and the doctor is like at starts
Speaker 1: asking questions and then again calls that cop. We do
Speaker 1: not need cops in healthcare. We do not need cops
Speaker 1: in abortion care at all. And so I think that's
Speaker 1: what's really important, and we really need to focus on
Speaker 1: the criminalization piece as we move into this larger scale
Speaker 1: criminalization of abortion nationwide. Renee, I can't tell you enough
Speaker 1: how much I appreciate you, your work, your passion. I
Speaker 1: know that it is an incredibly trying time for all
Speaker 1: of us, but particularly those that are working on the
Speaker 1: front lines. So I hope that you do take good
Speaker 1: care of yourself and your self care and you your
Speaker 1: self management, because it's a lot. It's it is a
Speaker 1: lot to listen to horrible stories every day of things
Speaker 1: that are going wrong. I really do hope also that
Speaker 1: you'll come back and join us on We'll Gay f again.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate you. Please tell folks if they want more information,
Speaker 1: how they can follow you and find you or support
Speaker 1: any of the number of campaigns that you are working on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can check out we testify at our website. We
Speaker 1: testify dot org. Of course we're on Instagram and Facebook
Speaker 1: and Twitter really importantly. On our website, we have a
Speaker 1: project called Abortion Explained. Anything you want to know about abortion,
Speaker 1: especially it's intersections with incarceration or queer justice or you know, poverty, whatever,
Speaker 1: any of those things. We have explainers for that to
Speaker 1: help break this down. If you want to join us
Speaker 1: in calling on the President to say the word abortion,
Speaker 1: you can follow our campaign Say Abortion Joe on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Twitter, and our website is did Biden say abortion yet?
Speaker 1: Dot org? We are keeping track if he's saying the
Speaker 1: word abortion. We hope you will. I believe in you, Joe,
Speaker 1: and then of course you can find me. I love Twitter,
Speaker 1: so I'm you know at our Bracy Sherman on Twitter
Speaker 1: and then Renee Bracy Sherman on Instagram and then my
Speaker 1: least favorite Facebook. Thank you so much for making the time.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you, and strength and power to you as
Speaker 1: you continue the fight that more people need to be
Speaker 1: a part of. Thank you so much. That is it
Speaker 1: for me today. Dear friends on woke f as always,
Speaker 1: power to the people and to all the people power,
Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.