WEBVTT - The Power of DAOs w/ Ashley Caines 0:00:00.000 --> 0:00:03.200 I think, like beholding strategy is if I have an 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.000 n f T that gets me access to all of 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:09.280 Lebron's practices for the rest of his career, and after 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.399 seven of those practices, I'm like, oh that was fun. Okay, 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.360 I don't have Sundays free anymore. Let me go ahead 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.840 and sell this like the use it's clear, it's clear. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:21.840 It's not like how long should I hold my board ape? 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:27.160 Have I missed the top? Um? Someone made me an offer. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.200 I need liquidity, Like all of these other decisions that 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:32.839 you make, um that you can get caught up in 0:00:32.840 --> 0:00:36.600 in in terms of like the strategy of buying those 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:41.479 particular assets, I think that can you actually use what 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.199 it is that you're buying into. If you can use it, 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.320 then your gut, your instinct will tell you when it 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.199 doesn't have a use for you anymore. If you go 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:54.560 into this investment without that sort of gut clarity, then 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.480 it's I don't think it's gonna appear halfway through beholding it. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.759 I'm Will Lucas and Mrs Black Tech Cream Money. I'm 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:06.840 gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, some 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:10.080 of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas I feel black 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:12.480 and building but simply using tech to secure your bag. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:20.920 This podcast is for you, Ashley kines Is self Talk, 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.840 crypto trader, Web free Point enthusiasts, and you surpassion for 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:28.679 educating and mentory and black women about crypto blockchain technology 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.760 and the value of dolls to leave blackties, presents and 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.520 projects in the crypto space. We've had a lot of 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.120 conversations on this podcast about n m t s, the 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.759 blockchain and more. So I asked asked you to give 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:44.440 us a one oh one of how DOWS decentralized autonomous 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.920 organizations work and what they may mean for how we 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.400 govern ourselves in the future. Sure, so, just to break 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:55.560 down the acronym itself. So it stands for decentralized autonomous organization. Right, 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.520 So if we take the decentralized part, that part UM 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:04.240 boils down to votes. In most cases UM there are 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.440 widgets or builded INDs that are put into either the telegram, 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:15.239 the discord wherever the community gathers UM and large decisions 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.840 are made by vote, and so that's the decentralized part 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:22.639 of it. There is typically a governance team who oversees 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.880 the decisions that go to aboute what decisions are we 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.800 voting on who sort of determines the north star and 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.680 sets the vision, but the implementation UM and the buy 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:36.000 in for that vision is done in a decentralized way. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:40.440 So that's the first word autonomous UM means. And this 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.120 comes up when I think about like potentially having an 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.400 Afro tech dow UM or doubts that are linked to 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:51.799 larger corporations or other entities, like they are doubts by 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:55.760 definition are intended to be autonomous and to be UM 0:02:56.080 --> 0:03:00.280 free of any sort of larger agenda than the one 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.160 that is set forth by the governing body and the 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.760 voting people that fill out the deep part of that acronym, right, 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:10.480 the decentralized part. And then the last word organization, So like, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.960 how do you organize? What are you organized around? UM? 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:17.720 What's the goal? Where do you meet? Whether it's telegram, 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.520 whether it's discord, however you all come together. I'm in 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.200 a basketball down. Once a month we UM get together. 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.400 I don't play basketball, but I cheerly from the sideline. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.640 But once a month we get together in person UM. 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.520 And there's this aspect that takes it offline, so it 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.880 is still very human. So yeah, I mean that to me, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.480 at its simplest form, is really what a doubt is. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:40.920 It doesn't work the same when you try to break 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.280 down like an f T and that acronym, I think 0:03:43.280 --> 0:03:46.640 it confuses people more. But DOW does the job of 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.280 like really explaining what it is in the name. How 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:55.760 do you imagine, you know, reasonably, within our lifetimes dows 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.920 having the most significant impact on how we live or work. 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:09.040 I think that UM the collective power, the collective financial power, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.880 So you don't necessarily need a coin to have a doubt. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.720 Not all dolls have their own treasury and coins that 0:04:15.760 --> 0:04:19.040 they launch, but many do UM, and when they do, 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:23.400 it's that pulled financial power that I see being the 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.520 greatest instrument going forward. Um, there are real estate hows 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.200 there's a down now and to like buy football teams, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.359 basketball teams. Um, there's one to buy the constitution. So 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.400 I think, UM, even n f T s, board apes, 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.240 things that people couldn't buy as individuals but can now 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.400 sort of own and buy into as a collective. I 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.680 think that's really their greatest power moving forward. So how 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:49.840 much of this has to do with how much of 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:54.320 a particular coin or vote I earned, how in most cases, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.520 would you say that dows are you know somebody has 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.160 a vote via the toke and that they own in 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:06.080 the dow. I can't speak to most cases, um, but 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:10.440 I will say in my own experience there hasn't been 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.880 a weighted vote where your vote is a proportion to 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:19.040 your ownership. I think, Um, the ethos of dows and 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:23.960 just Web three in general is less about how much 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.200 you own the money that you put up necessarily and 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.560 how much you're actively giving to the community. So you 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:33.039 could be in a DOW and see that there are 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.200 a hundred members and you see the same fifteen twenty 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.280 people speaking up in the chat, and then within that 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:44.600 group of twenty people there are five people who are 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.520 organizing in person events or doing some other aspect. There 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:52.680 are definitely levels to contribution, and so um, those benefits 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:55.520 are given to the people who contribute the most, not 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.120 necessarily to the people who have bought in at the 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.960 highest price. Point is so where I earn whatever that 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:07.400 participatory reward is, how does that get created in the dows? 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.200 So what am I earning? That? Says Okay, Will lucas 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.880 we can see, is contributing more. Therefore he is you 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:17.280 know has a higher profile in this in this organization. Sure, 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:21.520 so I think that is a back door conversation into 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:27.560 dows becoming sort of the workforce of the future, because 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.400 right now I'm working on within my DOW, UM, we're 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:35.440 working on badges and missions, much like video games, where 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.279 like sharing on social media, UM is a particular mission 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:43.680 for which you own a badge, and badges come with 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.279 a value of coin, like if you earn the SO 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.279 and so badge, you get one thousand of our coin 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:52.560 or you get ten more of our coins. So there's 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.880 a literal incentivization of if you do X, Y, and 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:02.000 c on behalf of the community, the communities treasury rewards 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:07.880 you with more coins. UM. I'm not sure that that 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:13.600 is how every doubt is structured, but it's definitely a 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:19.320 model that's becoming popular because these are still organizations in 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:22.040 the sense that like even nonprofit too, they have people 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.120 that actually run it and they do the work um, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.560 even though they're working on behalf of other people. And 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:30.560 I was gonna ask you about nonprofitsy, We'll talk more 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.960 about that in a second, so let's put a bookmark there. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.480 So the ones that you talked you just mentioned you 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.120 know for those who are people who are contributing more 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.560 and then they get these badges. You know, we're very 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.160 familiar with badges, especially if you play video games. UM. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.360 So when you get those badges and there you know 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.040 their coins in respect, what what do you what can 0:07:50.080 --> 0:07:52.520 you apply those two Can I you know, can I 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.360 buy something offline with that coin? Like? What can I 0:07:55.440 --> 0:08:00.000 do with my coins? It's up to the individual, um 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.160 to the question of whether or not you can buy 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.080 actual things in real life with them. Absolutely. The procedure 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:09.680 for that is you flip it from its coin back 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.760 into ether, back into US D C, U, S d 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:17.800 T or just you know money, um, cash as we 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:24.440 know it. However, if you believe in the organization that 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.440 you're doing all of these hours for that you're doing 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:29.280 all of these work, this work for you almost don't 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:33.120 want to cash those coins out because you're it's free money. 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:37.280 I mean, you might get when I get the particular badge, 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:39.800 that coin might be worth five dollars a coin, but 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.520 I believe by the end of the year it's going 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.679 to be worth eleven dollars a coin and I didn't 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:47.400 have to pay anything to get it. So, um, it 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.120 depends on your personal strategy. I think that there are 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.120 definitely two different schools of thought as communities start to 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.640 really think about whether or not they want to do this, 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.960 Because there are the people who are absolutely like, yes, 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.199 this is the future of work, and depending on how 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:07.680 many hours you put into this, you can make two thousand, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.000 three thousand dollars a month working on behalf of the doubt. 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.840 And then there's another school of thought that's like, absolutely, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.640 no one should be living off of their participation in 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:22.520 this doubt. This is UM as close to you, I 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.360 don't want to say non profit, but as close to 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:33.439 UM just fun or on behalf of the community as possible. 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:36.199 It's cool if you can make a few extra dollars, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:38.880 but we definitely shouldn't be setting it up to that 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.320 people are doing forty hours a week of missions and 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:45.000 badges and coming home with a full time salary. You 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.400 mentioned something with regards to the transitioning accurrency, like you know, 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:54.000 exchanging it for ether or whatever. What determines the value. 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.040 Let's say, if you created a doll today, what is 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:02.720 determining the value of its exchange to ethere or other things? Sure, 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:09.000 so when a coin is first launched, UM it can be. 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:12.199 I say it can't, because this isn't a percent of cases. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:16.320 But you mint the down mints their coin. They say 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:21.160 we want to mint a million of afrotep coin. Will 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.960 say um, and we're going to sell them. The initial 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:27.600 price will be a dollar fifty per coin. That dollar 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.720 fifty is arbitrary that was set by the original creators 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:37.280 of the coin and of the doubt. Then that graduates 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.040 to what's called an a MM, which stands for an 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.360 automated market maker. For example, unit swap is an a 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:47.800 m m UM. Once the treasury of a particular doubt 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:53.120 releases some of its coins to an a MM, it's 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:57.600 pure supply and demand that determines the value of that coin, 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.320 getting from a dollar fifty to three dollars to six 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:05.160 dollars to dollars. That's not something where the leadership or 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.360 governance of a particular doubt sits down and says, okay, 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.920 now it's time to take it up a notch um. 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.680 I think what does happen consciously is that they start 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.480 to notice that the demand is increasing and now it's 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.280 time to push it to an a m M so 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.560 that we can make sure we're maximizing the amount of 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.280 people that are interested in getting in the value that 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.640 people are seeing in this coin and letting it fly, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.559 and did the open market determine what it will be worth? 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:35.440 But the initial amount is arbitrary and then once you 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:38.720 move to an a MM, it's it's people who want 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.360 to buy in that are really setting that up. Now, 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:48.040 when you consider the question from the state of what 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:52.360 makes someone believe that they want to pay seven dollars 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:56.480 for something that used to be worth a dollar fifty, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.440 that can be or really any number of things. If 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.600 you see the community getting more popular, and like cloud 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.960 cloud is a big one. Um, I think to me 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.520 that's one of the magical aspects of doubs is that 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.720 you really can sort of quantify cloud in this sense 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.960 because just off of the popularity of a doubt, it's 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:20.600 coin can ten x in a matter of weeks or months. Um. 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:25.520 But it's assets are another the mission. Um. Yeah, I 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.400 mean there are a number of factors that will increase 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.199 what people believe to be the value of this community 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:36.040 and it's corresponding coin. But yeah, definitely a m M 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:40.240 S Yeah, And so what what drives the demand of 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:43.360 a doubt? So when when you think about Is it influencers. 0:12:43.240 --> 0:12:45.560 Is it the same sort of marketing thing that happens 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:48.520 in every other you know in the digital age? Is 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:50.920 it just influences guideas well? Now everybody wants to be 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.960 a part of this thing, so that drives the demand 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:58.040 and therefore the value of those tokens. Yes and no. UM, 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:02.000 the utility is really what ought to be driving it 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:09.360 UM and some dows are made popular by their utility 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:12.800 by having a mission that that's clear, it's clearly defined, 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:16.920 people can get behind it UM. And then in other 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:23.240 cases it is hype and it's utility from December to 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:27.960 July to the next December has not changed, but people's 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:33.320 desire to be associated with the brand has increased. UM. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.480 And they may have thrown one hot party in August 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:41.120 or something where they I mean people also UM people 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.880 being the governance of Taos, they make strategic moves that 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.520 also help increase the value of a coin in the 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:52.360 short term, like token gated events. UM. I remember during 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.440 art Bussle here in Miami, one of the larger Dallas 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.480 friends with benefits through a party UM and they had 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:00.800 Rika Badou DJ and it was just sort of like 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:05.680 a star studied event and it was five coins to 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.840 get in. That was sort of like the gate keeping 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.440 threshold to get into this party. And at the time 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.839 the coin was worth a hundred dollars, So it cost 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.320 five hundred dollars to get into UM this particular party, 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:22.840 and people wanting to go to the party took it 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:26.400 from seventy to ninety to hundred, and the party's over 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.360 UM and now it's probably sitting around sixty right now. 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:35.040 Who should be thinking about creating dolls? Like we mentioned 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:39.160 nonprofits UM, what types of organizations and we're going to 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:43.000 talk about the future were, but what types of organizations, startups, 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:48.480 UM collectives should be thinking about dolls? I think in 0:14:48.520 --> 0:15:00.320 some sense everyone should be thinking about organizing around UM 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.720 a mission that they believe in and they think that 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.720 will attract other people to organize around. But I am 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.640 being vague and entering that because I read a tweet 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.800 the other day that I've found really true, which is 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.400 just sort of like, it's more lucrative to hold a 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.280 portion of a treasury of a new doubt than it 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.400 is to be a member of a pre existing taw 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.880 So if you're making a money play, if you're trying 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.600 to not necessarily get rich quick, but you want to 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.560 be a whale of a particular coin or a cumula 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.320 reap the benefit of those coins going ten x or 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:42.080 five x or whatever they're doing. You're not necessarily going 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.080 to put all of your time and energy into someone 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.880 else's now that may have the exact same mission is you. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.640 It's more lucrative for you to go start your own. 0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:53.760 And I think that that's really a kink to be 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:57.120 worked out in this entire process and why it's part 0:15:57.120 --> 0:16:00.120 of the ethos that people shouldn't like be making money 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:03.400 he plays in the space in general, because when you 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:07.200 just keep it purely at organizing around a mission that 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.480 we all believe in and collectively feel like we can 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.680 get there faster, better, stronger together than everyone should think 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.840 with consider a doubt, whether or not they're considering starting 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.840 a doubt. If that makes sense. How do you think 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:28.440 about how the Internet of things may impact our dial participation, 0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.760 our punishment or reward in a dial um? Will our 0:16:31.840 --> 0:16:34.880 devices betray us? So if I think about if car insurance, 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.400 you know, the rate I get it may depend on 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.280 how fast I go, being you know, determined by some 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.880 by or system in my vehicle telling the insurance company. UM, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:49.720 how will the endet of things impact our relationship with 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.920 organizations that we may deal with. I think that in 0:16:54.160 --> 0:17:01.000 general UM society is moving in a direction of, in 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:06.480 my opinion, overly quantifying UM any number of things, like 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.679 from wearing fitbits to sleep until you have many minutes 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.199 you slept well or got deep sleep or whatever. And 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.359 so I think that DOWS can also either be helped 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:21.879 or fall prey to this over quantifying of contribution, over 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:27.000 valuing the people who spoke up five times in a 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.920 day even though absolutely nothing that they had to add 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:33.359 to the conversation was substantive or move the conversation forward, 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.280 but the contribution itself was greater than UM in quantity 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:42.960 than someone else's one really really thought provoking statement this month, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:44.719 and then you know, they dipped out, they had other 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:48.480 stuff to do. So I don't think that the system 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:53.160 of reward UM, whether it's reward and coin or rewarded 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.800 with a leadership position or UM, whatever you see, your 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.280 personal reward is for having gotten into this DOW. I 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.200 don't think that UM. I think the Internet of things, 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:07.199 as you say, will sort of push that towards a 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.520 system where we need to really be mindful of our 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.600 individual north stars in the space, like what are we 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:18.960 here to accomplish? And what um what this success mean 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.080 to the individual and to the organization too, that we're 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:26.120 not just a statueet of this many members, this many 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.920 people did this, We have this many hours of contribution, 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.920 this many people durining the conversation seventy of blah blah blah, 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:36.680 And it's like, but what do you do? What impact 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.840 do you have? I love that it's a great segue 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.440 into this this question because I was thinking about conversation 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:46.040 I have on this podcast about n f t s 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:50.560 and why which this is a strategy I've adjusted in 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:53.240 this speaks to what you just said. I did not 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:59.240 believe personally in investing in centralized editable metadata n f 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.960 t s where it may be stored on somebody's a 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.359 WS somewhere, so that it was not on the blockchain, 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.520 not on I p f S. And I sort of 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.879 had to readjust my thinking because if I'm preaching, you know, 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:14.639 get to know the engineering team building it, get to 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:18.080 know the founders, get to know the organization. Maybe it 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.399 doesn't have to last forever, but does it have to 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.520 last forever? Right? And so I wanted to get your 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:28.200 idea on, you know, thinking about these things centralized versus decentralized, 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:30.560 particularly around n f t s, and what are your 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.400 thoughts on holding strategy with me saying that, So, I 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.879 was what I'll call late to n f t s 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.439 probably in the last couple of months. I've been researching 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.439 them for over a year, but sort of aped in 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:47.760 on the last couple of months, and I had similar 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:54.520 reservations and just not really understanding, um where the money 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.240 play was number one in terms of like holding, what 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.399 what am I really getting in for? What is the 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:07.720 move here? Or um. I think not to sidestep your question, 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.240 but really the answer, my answer to your question is 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:14.480 always to tell people that I am bullish on experiential 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.199 n f t s, and I think in that sense, 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.479 like beholding strategy is if I have an n f 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.240 T that gets me access to all of Lebron's practices 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.879 for the rest of his career, and after seven of 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.399 those practices, I'm like, oh, that was fun. Okay, I 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.439 don't have Sunday's free anymore. Let me go ahead and 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:36.000 sell this like the use it's clear, it's clear, it's 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:38.800 not like how long should I hold my board ape 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:44.119 have I missed the top? Um someone made me an offer. 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.120 I need liquidity, Like all of these other decisions that 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:49.760 you make, um that you can get caught up in 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.520 in in terms of like the strategy of buying those 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:58.320 particular assets, I think that can you actually use what 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:01.120 it is that you're buying into. If you can use it, 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.280 then your gut, your instinct will tell you when it 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.160 doesn't have a use for you anymore. If you go 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:11.520 into this investment without that sort of gut clarity, then 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:15.480 it's I don't think it's gonna appear halfway through beholding it. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.439 Are there dolls that we've been exposed to and we 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:22.879 just you know, haven't kind of connect the dots that 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:27.320 we've been you know, engaging with a decentralized autonomous organization. 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:28.879 And the reason I ask is this, you know, when 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.040 we have the conversation on this podcast about n f 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.520 T s, like we're we've been familiar with n f 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.960 T like non fungibility for some time, like are you 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:41.040 know your your birth certificate, that's a non fungible asset. 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:43.400 So when we put it on the blockchain, now it's 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.960 a non fungible token. You know so, But have we 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:50.800 in the same way been exposed to the concept of 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:55.320 a decentralized autonomous organization and now we're just starting to 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.199 see blockchain implications. I think we are used to a 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.520 number of aspects of it UM. What we're not used 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:06.880 to is UM what i'll call the shareholder model of 0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:13.400 like being bought in and then also as it becomes 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:18.480 more popular, assets assets become more useful, or however the 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.840 case may be, like we also go up in value 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.360 UM being able to sort of move up in a 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:30.720 non political space. Workplaces have plenty of politics. The upside 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.120 of being in an overly quantified environment of like hours 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.840 of contribution and missions and badges completed, is that you're 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.320 it's free of those things. So yes, it takes a 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:45.760 lot of what we're used to UM, and it matches 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.560 it with things that were not necessarily used to UM 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:54.000 and the blockchain itself, like having this open record, this 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:57.439 lack of ambiguity of really being able to say, like, 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.280 what transaction happened on what day by what you user 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:04.880 X y Z like. Even that transparency is an aspect 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:08.560 that we're not necessarily used to. When you put those 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.440 things all together, I think they're incredibly powerful and new, 0:23:12.400 --> 0:23:15.119 but the barrier of entry shouldn't be so high because 0:23:15.160 --> 0:23:17.960 to your point, yes, there are many many aspects of 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.679 doubts that were already performing. There was a quote I 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.000 read UM and I think it's from Injuries and Horowitz 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:27.879 where they were talking about the future of work and dows, 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:31.080 and this particular paragraph struck me and it said the 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.040 traditional way to make money was to work to earn, 0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.359 but the future of income is to X to earn, 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:41.480 play to earn, learn to earn, create till to earn UM, 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:45.600 and work to earn. And so when you think about 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:49.560 UM what it may mean for employment, you already have 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.879 like the gig economy, influencers YouTubers who are making money. 0:23:54.119 --> 0:23:58.760 UM do we expect in our lifetimes or you know, 0:23:58.800 --> 0:24:01.040 reasonably in the next wouldn't you our lifetimes? But the 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.800 next ten to fifteen years that we may see large 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:11.120 corporations UM dissolve or be created in the DOW respect 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:15.240 based on these sort of UM inputs, these workers, these 0:24:15.240 --> 0:24:21.280 people producing the value. I believe more that we will 0:24:21.359 --> 0:24:28.960 see dows rise to the size of corporations before I 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:35.320 believe that we'll see corporations that sort of bow to 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:43.280 UM the system that dows are implementing for the reason 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:49.040 of concentration of power. I just really don't see UM 0:24:49.240 --> 0:24:52.040 corporations giving that up. I'm sure there are plenty of aspects, 0:24:52.080 --> 0:24:55.160 like a buffet table, they like that DOWS vote. Sure, 0:24:55.200 --> 0:24:57.199 we can implement voting, like we can do this, but 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:02.680 ultimately like members will be holding ten percent of the 0:25:02.720 --> 0:25:06.280