WEBVTT - Anthropic Nears $20B Run Rate, Apple to Sell $599 Laptop 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:13.360 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:17.240 from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.520 and Eva Low in San Francisco. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:24.200 This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:27.520 Tech stocks rebound is investors see clarity around the war 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:28.080 in Iran. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:29.880 Five days into the conflict. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.479 Plasanthropic is on track to generate annual revenue of almost 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:35.880 twenty billion dollars, more than doubling in a few months. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.560 This admitted clash with the Pentagon over AI safeguards. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.320 And Apple comes after the PC market and budget minded 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:46.640 shoppers of its new MacBook Neo. We have the details. 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.680 Interesting day to launch a product. There's volatility around the 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.440 world when it comes to tech because we want some 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.440 certainty around the war in Iran and Ceranti is. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:55.880 Not what the market is getting at the moment. 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.120 And it's an extraordinary day once again when you think 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.680 about also the economic data coming in strong for the 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:04.440 services sector, inflational pressure actually dialing back. But now the 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.240 market tries to understand where the tuck moves and a's 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.560 that one hundred as you say, big tech in charge 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.160 today we're up one and a half percent. Bitcoin also 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:13.760 seeing a risk asset move into that. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:14.800 We're up almost eight percent. 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.320 Seventy three thousand is where we trade crude down, and 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.039 that's maybe alleviating some of the pressure on stocks. 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.959 We'll get that update from at least the Pentagon's perspective 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:25.160 and the US perspective. 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:26.080 What's happening in Iran. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:29.920 Overnight in Korea, the costs be the main benchmark index 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.399 dropped twelve percent, the most on record. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:34.760 There was a halt very early. 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:37.200 In the Korean session for volatility, and it was those 0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:39.120 two names that we talked about twenty four hours ago 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:44.080 that provided about volatility, Samsung and sk Heinix. Part of 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.560 this is what's happening with Iran. Part of it is 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.880 that Korean inequities were massive outperformers. But it's just a 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.920 moment in time. I'm looking backwards. But my goodness, that 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.760 was a market check that maybe we didn't expect this morning. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:57.720 And again it's based on leverage. 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.600 But let's talk about the leverage that US Event Secretary 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.440 Pete Hegseth has at the moment, delivering a briefing this 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.040 morning on the situation in the Middle East, saying military 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.200 operations in Iran will accelerate. 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:15.240 This is not a mission accomplished situation. This is simply 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:20.760 a reality check. The combination of US and Israeli intelligence 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:25.840 and combat power will control Iran and will control it soon. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.120 Blumergs Tyler Kendall is at the White House with the 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.680 latest and he made reference to the Iraq War there 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.760 by saying, this is not mission accomplished. But where are 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:38.840 we in terms of the clash with Iran? 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:42.880 Hey, Caroline, Well, as you heard the Secretary Pete Hegseth 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:45.840 there is reiterating that the US has no plans to 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:49.960 let up its military campaign in Iran and maintained that 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.120 the US has enough weapons stockpiles to keep this going 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:58.040 until the country's full objectives are achieved. Secretary Heagseth did 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.760 outline that the US and Israel now have what's being 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:04.280 called uncontested control of Iran's airspace and that we should 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:07.760 expect this mission to move into a second phase where 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.040 we will see more strikes deeper inside the country. We 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.120 also heard from the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.040 Dan Kine, that said the US and Israel have hit 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.560 over two thousand targets inside of Iran and confirmed that 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:23.280 a US submarine sunk an Iranian naval vessel for the 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.800 first time in international. 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:26.760 Waters since World War Two. 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.080 Now, there's a lot that we're paying attention to here, 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:32.000 but it does not appear that diplomatic talks or a 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.120 viable off ramp at the moment, even as The New 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:38.280 York Times reported this morning that Iranian operatives reached out 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.280 to the CIA through a third party country to talk 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.200 about potential negotiations the day after the attack started. However, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.200 Ed and Caroline, we heard from President Trump just yesterday 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.840 saying that the time has passed for talks. As US 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.560 officials make clear that they are accelerating, not decelerating, as 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:57.680 this Defense secretary said earlier. 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:01.000 Today, lots of headlines on the Blouebg turn constantly about 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.840 what's happening in Iran. Buried also in the news cycle 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:06.720 is the latest on tariffs? What do we need to know? 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.800 Tyler Well And we. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.480 Heard from the Treasury Secretary in an interview earlier today 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:14.000 who said that we should expect the global baseline tariff, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.720 currently at ten percent, to go up to fifteen percent 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.760 as soon as this week. We also heard from the 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.720 European Union, according to people familiar with the matter, telling 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.840 Bloomberg News that that trading partner does not expect their 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.479 rate to go up to fifteen percent. Now keep in 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.839 mind President Trump put this new baseline tariff on the 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.960 table after the Supreme Court struck down his tariffs imposed 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.400 under IEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, and now 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.440 he's using this different authority. But that will run out 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.800 after one hundred and fifty days without congressional approval. But 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.279 I was in the Oval Office yesterday when the USTR 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.800 Jamison Grier, announced that we should expect the administration to 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.279 wrap up some of their other trade probs that would 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.279 put tariffs in place in a more durable sense within 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.080 the next five months. Section three h one investigations into 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:03.920 alleged unfair trade practices. 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:05.600 We already have those. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:09.080 Investigations ongoing against China and Brazil. But Ed and Carolina, 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.800 a senior Administration official, tells me that we should expect 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:14.400 more investigations to be announced in the weeks ahead. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.760 Blimberg, Tightler, Kendall, thank you very much. Let's get latest 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:21.920 on markets, technology, markets and sentiment with Todd Elstein, Panassa's 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.960 investment CEO and portfolio manager. I'm just looking down on 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.520 my Bloomberg. You know, the NAZA one hundred is now 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.080 modestly higher on the week. Things change very quickly. How 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:34.240 much of a shock, particularly to the technology sector and 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.479 the view of the technology sector has the war in 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:38.000 Iran bin? 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:40.080 Well, you know, it's a great question. Great to be 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.920 here today, and I think when you think long term, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.239 when the S and P five hundred was down twenty 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.120 four basis points coming into today, you're today. So I 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.640 think this is really when you talk AI, this is 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:55.760 a generational investment where the demand for compute as the 0:05:55.800 --> 0:06:00.560 economy goes agentic. It's just a very durable growth that 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.240 the war is clearly from a human standpoint, you know, 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.839 we hope and pray for a de escalation, but I 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.240 think the overarching investment wave is just going to be 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.240 very large over the next several years, and that's going 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.640 to be a durable trend to invest behind. Despite some 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.039 of the headlines and supply shocks we're seeing. 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:23.480 Today, we saw equities and creer the costs b drop 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:25.800 the most on record. As Caroline quite rarely points out, 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:28.120 you know, that's an issue of leverage as much as 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.640 anything else. What do you do in this situation? Where 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.560 you have a war in the Middle East, in Iran, 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:40.440 you have a fluids tariff policy, let's say, and again 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.159 you know we are looking in particular at the energy 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.320 sector in the context of Iran. What are you doing 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:47.960 right now, Todd? 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.080 Well, so, thirty first year at Parnassas, twenty five years 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.039 managing in the Parnassas core equity strategy. We haven't put 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.080 in a trade since this conflict began. We're focused on 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:01.960 great American companies, durable franchises, the AI investment wave and 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:07.120 just quality companies, quality compounders. So for us, our clients 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:09.279 really come to us during these times to invest in 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:13.760 durable businesses. So again the headlines can be emotionally jarring, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.200 but we're not here to predict the price oil for 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.200 the next three weeks or some of the short term 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.480 supply shocks. It's really invest in durable earnings. Tech regime changes, 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:30.280 quality American companies, so it's the applied materials, the costcos, 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.800 the master cards, the Microsoft's and keep it low turnover. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:36.960 And that's why our clients come to us during these 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.800 times for that long term perspective. 0:07:39.720 --> 0:07:43.080 Ton is the long term perspective still one where you 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.920 build out an AI infrastructure or the winning trades of 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.640 twenty four twenty five, the in video is still the 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.160 way to go or is it shifting? 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:54.000 Well, I think there's a durable investment behind the infrastructure, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.080 So we like to look for the bottlenecks and AI 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.960 and we think the compute demand is going to exceed 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.080 supply for quite some time, so we're looking to invest 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.640 in the building blocks of that AI infrastructure that are 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.960 increasingly valuable. So think about applied materials building the equipment 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.520 that builds the chips that are bending the laws of 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:18.480 physics and almost making impossible possible. Companies like Synopsis, which 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.800 sells the software that designs the chips, just think about 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:26.040 chips being thirty times more complex to design over the 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.360 next five years, going from two hundred billion transistors to 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:34.840 a trillion on a chip. More power, more performance, more workloads, 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.480 more augentic. So we're looking at those areas of the 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.160 AI value stream that are durable, again, designing the chips, 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.800 building the chips, and then that ecosystem. Clearly, companies like Amazon, Google, 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:50.520 Microsoft have scale. Companies Broadcom and custom Silicon, we think 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:52.600 they have a long run way of growth. So we're 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.520 looking for those value streams that are going to help 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.319 supply the compute needed for this economy long term, to 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.400 go agentic, which is more inference, which is more adoption. 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:07.360 Going agentic that has upended some trades when it comes 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.560 to software. I was lucky enough to speak with Paige Duty, 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.439 CEO and chair Jennifer Tohada yesterday, and she was talking 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.920 about how she sees the stickiness of certain software companies 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:18.560 such as Hers. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:20.040 Just take a listen to what she said, Todd. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:23.439 Somebody once told me that software, enterprise software is a 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.240 little bit like a tattoo. You can take it off, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.760 but it's really painful and it leaves a mark. I 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.360 just think that our customers are going to make very 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:37.000 intentional choices about where they're going to invest in using 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.280 AI to build something themselves, and where they're going to 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:40.760 trust an expert. 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.240 Page Duty is about digital resilience Todd. But her argument 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.040 is that their moat is the infrastructure that they've spent 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.599 a lot of money building out and the trust that 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.719 they have with their customers. Where are you seeing opportunity 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.440 in software? Where are you concerned about in software? 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.840 Well, where we have some concerns is we recently exited 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:04.720 investments in service now and workday. Again good companies, just 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.319 the forward range of outcomes got too wide for us, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:11.960 so we have backed away from those where we're invested 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:15.360 in software. Clearly, a Microsoft, we think is a dining 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.520 room table long term asset that they have in the 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.120 value chain. We also, again as we talked about a 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.360 moment ago like company Synopsis embedded in AI chip design 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:31.000 where we have silicon go into systems more complex transistors 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:34.280 and then infrastructure AI and robotics, we think a company 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:38.920 like Synopsis is embedded in workloads to unlock productivity of 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.720 chip designers. And so those are the areas that we 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:45.600 think are mody durable in workloads, and we think our 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.240 long term investments to make where the range of outcomes 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:51.880 we think is skewed more positive. So again a Microsoft, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.080 a Synopsis a bit more concern around a workday and 0:10:56.120 --> 0:11:00.280 a service now, and we remain invested in SALESFA Worse, 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.520 which we think is working hard to have an agentic platform, 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:08.679 and the valuation of salesforces relatively compelling if you look 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.440 at the forward embedded expectations. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:14.079 Right now, certainly after a more than forty percent sell 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:15.480 off that we've seen in the last twelve months. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.040 Todd, It's always great to catch up with you. 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:20.520 Thank you for your time today, Todd Olsen of Finass Investments. 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.560 Now coming up, we speaking with the Tato Institute. 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:27.400 Jennifer huddleson about the implications of the feud between the 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.160 Pentagon and Anthropic. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:29.400 And what are you watching. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:31.840 Yeah, some headlines just across the Bloomberg terminal and it 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:37.280 relates to Roadblocks. Nebraska's attorney general has filed a lawsuit 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:43.679 against Roadblocks, alleging that they have conducted deceptive safety practices, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:48.120 including allegedly enabling child exploitation. That the stock still higher 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:50.959 five percentage point, it did sort of take a leg 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.560 lower in those headlines. Here will continue to track that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.679 we have been tracking Roadblocks and other platforms when it 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:57.480 comes to safety. 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:06.640 This is Bloomberg Tech. A surprise move. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.960 The architect of Ali Baba's main Ai platform, Quen, has 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:12.200 left the company. Jiang Lin was one of the most 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:16.719 influential figures behind Ali Baba's transition to AI. Linn did 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.199 not give a reason for his departure, which has raised 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:22.600 questions about the Chinese tech giants' future plans and the 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:25.840 country's ability to catch up to US competitors Linn and 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.200 Ali Baba representatives did not respond to messages seeking comment. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.280 Currently, let's stick with AI ED because Anthropic is on 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.600 track to generate annual revenue of almost twenty billion dollars 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.240 based on current performance. Now that would actually nearly double 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.760 its run rate from late last year. As the AI 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.840 company's few though with the Pentagon continues. Let's get the 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.440 details of Bluemegg's editor across all Things AI, Seth Fiegerman, 0:12:48.800 --> 0:12:52.360 is notable the scale at which Anthrobert continues to grow, 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.480 even though it might well be pushed out of government 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.520 work if the threats hold true. 0:12:57.840 --> 0:12:59.960 Yeah, as you said, you know, it's more than double 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.200 a matter of months, which reflects the coverage that we've had, 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.280 you know, in the league up to the Pentagon showdown, 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.800 as we've seen more mainstream awareness of Anthropics, AI agents 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.839 and AI coding tools in particular. On the one handed, 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:14.680 shows that it has been like a position of strength 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:17.079 in the lead up to the standoff, you know, getting 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.280 significant traction in the enterprise market, but it also shows 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.880 what's at stake here. We're still waiting to see what 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:25.960 happens if the Pentagon moves forward with the threat as 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.120 leveled by Hagsavan Friday, and I think there's just generally 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.839 a lot of uncertainty about how broad the impact will 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.839 be on his business relationships. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.800 As Anthropic was labeled a supply chain risk by the 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:39.320 US government. At the end of lost three week open 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.920 Ai did its own deal with the Pentagon right, and 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:45.560 Sam Altman, the CEO of open a I, came out 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.120 publicly and talked about how that was rushed and handled 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.760 in his sloppy fashion. Our latest reporting is a base one. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:57.600 All hands within open ai yesday afternoon. What was said? 0:13:57.800 --> 0:13:58.560 What do we need to know? 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.040 Yeah, I mean peated some of that same rhetoric to 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.199 employees during his real first chance to address their concerns, 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.559 and reiterated the concerns that they might have been too 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.160 hasty and announcing this deal on fraggy, which might have 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.920 made them seem more opportunistic. He stressed that open ai 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.520 and the employees there are very much empowered to kind 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.000 of share their expertise about how to best use their 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.560 AI models, what their limitations and opportunities are, but he 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.000 also stressed that it is not Opening Eye's place to 0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.080 basically weigh in on operational decisions from the Pentagon, by 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.560 which he meant maybe employees might disagree with what's happening 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.320 in Iran or with the rage in Venezuela, or they 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:42.080 might agree with one and not the other. It is 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.200 not their place to tell the Pentagon how to behave 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:44.760 on that matter. 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.320 Bloomberg Seth Figgman, Thank you very much. Let's discuss the 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:52.200 possible ramifications of a fallout between Anthropic and the pents. 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.239 Gott On Jennifer Huddleston as a senior fellow in Technology 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:57.720 Policy at the Cato Institute, and you wrote at length 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:03.440 about this a moment ago said that Anthropic had been 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:08.000 labeled a supply chain risk by the US government. You 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.520 go a little bit of a step further and say 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.320 that they've been blacklisted essentially, and that there will be 0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:16.320 ramifications to that. Please take it from that. 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.160 So I think that there are two things to think about. 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.160 There's what does this mean for Anthropics specifically, and what 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:26.080 does this mean for the broader conversation around AI innovation 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:31.520 and the innovators in the American AI sector. For Anthropics specifically, 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:34.600 this could certainly have consequences, not only when it comes 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.120 to their contract with the Department of War. But we 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:41.120 saw President Trump post on True Social calling for all 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.320 agencies to stop using this product. And what signal does 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:49.480 this send to other whether it's contractors or other companies 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.000 that are using Anthropic, both here in the US as 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.560 well as around the world. More generally, for the AI community, 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.920 there's also likely to be concerned about what does this 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.560 mean that the government's willing to do in terms of 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.520 stepping in if they don't like the decisions of a 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:07.160 particular product. What does this also mean for America's AI 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.360 leaders when other countries around the world want them to 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.240 make changes for the government to use their products for 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.680 things that go beyond what they deem ethical. 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:21.120 In your paper, you cite the great Albus Dumbledore, and 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:22.800 you say, as he did at the end of. 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:24.920 The Philosopher's Stone or Sorcerer's Stone, if you're in. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.560 America, it takes a great deal of bravery to stand 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.960 up to our enemies, but just as much to stand 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.920 up to our friends. Why did you invoke Albus Dumbledore? 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:33.920 And what are you trying to say that? 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.640 I think when we think about American companies typically standing 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.720 up to pressure from governments, we're thinking about will American 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:45.480 companies hold true to American values when they're faced with 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.000 pressure from foreign adversaries, when the Chinese or the Russian 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:54.000 government asks them to cross right lines that violate American values, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:58.120 violate the ideas of civil rights or civil liberties. When 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.720 Anthropic was faced with some pressure from the US government 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.560 asking it to violate its ethics to make sure to 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.080 remove what it felt were necessary ethical safeguards to prevent 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:15.000 mass surveillance or the use of its AI and autonomous weapons, 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.280 it also said no. And that's something that shows a 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.600 great deal of courage, whether it's standing up to a 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.639 foreign adversary and understanding the business laws there, but particularly 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.199 when it's standing up to your own government knowing that 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:31.800 there could, in this case be very real consequences in 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:32.320 the market. 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:36.040 Jennifer, what caught my eye was saying, this is a kin. 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.280 This behavior is a kin to something we'd expect from 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.240 the Chinese government. 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:45.679 Now, where should the agreements or not go in the future. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.320 You at the Cato Institute are all about limited government, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.040 but at this moment there are deep ethical questions about 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:56.040 the future of generative AI and its implications for the 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:57.960 use in the military and written large for. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.600 The labor market. How does this get decided. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:02.919 Should it be a Congress decision, should it be just 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:04.200 a case by case decision. 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.800 One of the things that makes the situation unique is 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.879 this goes beyond just a mere dispute over a procurement 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.200 contract because of those additional threats, the threats to either 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:18.680 the Defense Production Act or to label the company a 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.760 supply chain risk. But I think it does highlight some 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.399 of the underlying concerns or debates over how should we 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.760 think about protecting civil liberties and civil rights when it 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.679 comes to AI use by the government. AI can be 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.400 used for wonderfully productive ways in the government, just as 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.400 it can in the private sector to help constituents find 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:40.040 the services they need, but there are also real and 0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:42.879 legitimate concerns about the way it could be abused. Again 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:46.000 in this particular dispute too, the issues where mass surveillance 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.440 and autonomous weapons. One of the places that we need 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.679 clarity when it comes from policy makers is around what 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.760 the government's going to do to restrain itself in its 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.000 use of AI. This will help both citizens and innovators 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.600 feel more comfortable with the technology, both in the government 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:04.880 context and beyond. 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.320 Jennifer Hudelson is a fascinating blog. People should go read it. 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.080 Senior fellow and the Technology policy at the Cato Institute, 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:20.760 thanks so much for joining us today checking in on 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.000 shares of Apple that are trying to hold on to 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.960 gains today as they unveil yet more new products, and 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:29.560 this week they've announced plenty, but today it's the turn 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:31.720 of the MacBook Neo, with a starting price of just 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:32.960 five hundred ninety nine dollars. 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.040 Maybebug's Dana Wolman joins us for the details. 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.639 This is about four hundred bucks cheaper than the usual 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:39.240 price point for Apple. 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:40.439 Who are they going against here? 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.080 So this is really truly the first low end and 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:45.960 I hesitate to call it low end, but the first 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:48.199 low price laptop that Apple has put out, and this 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:51.160 puts it in direct competition with all sorts of Windows 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:55.280 PC makers that offer have long offered budget laptops, not 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:58.639 to mention Chromebooks, machines that are sold not just to 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.479 individuals who are on a budget, but also institutions like 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:04.280 schools that are buying in bulk. 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:05.960 The question is, well, how did they do it? 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:07.720 And one of the ways they did it was to 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.960 use the processor that has its ties to the iPhone, 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:13.120 not the M five chip. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:14.720 Just explain what's going inside. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:18.439 Yes, absolutely so, in terms of just the internals inside, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.040 this puts the MacBook Neo about on part with an 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:24.399 iPhone sixteen Pro released in twenty twenty four. And I 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.680 think that the release of this machine really is a 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:31.080 testament to how far mobile silicon has gone. As I said, 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:35.919 companies have been offering lightweight, really cheap laptops for a 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:38.400 long time now, but just because they have been available, 0:20:38.440 --> 0:20:41.560 that doesn't mean that we necessarily would have recommended them. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.880 To most people. And that is because the processors available the. 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:47.080 Time for years were pretty low powered, and you really 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:50.480 could feel that in the form of slow, pokey performance. 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.520 And I think it is a testament to the quality 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.639 of the silicon and the technical advance the technological advancements 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.080 that Apple was willing to put out a machine at 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:01.919 this price point run the mobile processor inside. 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:02.520 Yeah. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:04.679 I mean John turnis in a statement he's the hardware 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.320 engineering chief, talking about how from the ground up they've. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:09.560