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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive

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Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York

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Speaker 1: and Eva Low in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up.

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Speaker 3: Tech stocks rebound is investors see clarity around the war

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Speaker 3: in Iran.

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Speaker 2: Five days into the conflict.

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Speaker 4: Plasanthropic is on track to generate annual revenue of almost

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Speaker 4: twenty billion dollars, more than doubling in a few months.

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Speaker 4: This admitted clash with the Pentagon over AI safeguards.

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Speaker 3: And Apple comes after the PC market and budget minded

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Speaker 3: shoppers of its new MacBook Neo. We have the details.

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Speaker 3: Interesting day to launch a product. There's volatility around the

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Speaker 3: world when it comes to tech because we want some

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Speaker 3: certainty around the war in Iran and Ceranti is.

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Speaker 5: Not what the market is getting at the moment.

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Speaker 4: And it's an extraordinary day once again when you think

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Speaker 4: about also the economic data coming in strong for the

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Speaker 4: services sector, inflational pressure actually dialing back. But now the

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Speaker 4: market tries to understand where the tuck moves and a's

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Speaker 4: that one hundred as you say, big tech in charge

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Speaker 4: today we're up one and a half percent. Bitcoin also

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Speaker 4: seeing a risk asset move into that.

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Speaker 5: We're up almost eight percent.

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Speaker 4: Seventy three thousand is where we trade crude down, and

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Speaker 4: that's maybe alleviating some of the pressure on stocks.

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Speaker 3: We'll get that update from at least the Pentagon's perspective

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Speaker 3: and the US perspective.

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Speaker 2: What's happening in Iran.

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Speaker 3: Overnight in Korea, the costs be the main benchmark index

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Speaker 3: dropped twelve percent, the most on record.

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Speaker 2: There was a halt very early.

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Speaker 3: In the Korean session for volatility, and it was those

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Speaker 3: two names that we talked about twenty four hours ago

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Speaker 3: that provided about volatility, Samsung and sk Heinix. Part of

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Speaker 3: this is what's happening with Iran. Part of it is

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Speaker 3: that Korean inequities were massive outperformers. But it's just a

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Speaker 3: moment in time. I'm looking backwards. But my goodness, that

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Speaker 3: was a market check that maybe we didn't expect this morning.

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Speaker 5: And again it's based on leverage.

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Speaker 4: But let's talk about the leverage that US Event Secretary

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Speaker 4: Pete Hegseth has at the moment, delivering a briefing this

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Speaker 4: morning on the situation in the Middle East, saying military

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Speaker 4: operations in Iran will accelerate.

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Speaker 6: This is not a mission accomplished situation. This is simply

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Speaker 6: a reality check. The combination of US and Israeli intelligence

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Speaker 6: and combat power will control Iran and will control it soon.

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Speaker 4: Blumergs Tyler Kendall is at the White House with the

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Speaker 4: latest and he made reference to the Iraq War there

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Speaker 4: by saying, this is not mission accomplished. But where are

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Speaker 4: we in terms of the clash with Iran?

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Speaker 7: Hey, Caroline, Well, as you heard the Secretary Pete Hegseth

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Speaker 7: there is reiterating that the US has no plans to

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Speaker 7: let up its military campaign in Iran and maintained that

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Speaker 7: the US has enough weapons stockpiles to keep this going

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Speaker 7: until the country's full objectives are achieved. Secretary Heagseth did

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Speaker 7: outline that the US and Israel now have what's being

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Speaker 7: called uncontested control of Iran's airspace and that we should

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Speaker 7: expect this mission to move into a second phase where

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Speaker 7: we will see more strikes deeper inside the country. We

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Speaker 7: also heard from the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

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Speaker 7: Dan Kine, that said the US and Israel have hit

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Speaker 7: over two thousand targets inside of Iran and confirmed that

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Speaker 7: a US submarine sunk an Iranian naval vessel for the

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Speaker 7: first time in international.

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Speaker 2: Waters since World War Two.

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Speaker 7: Now, there's a lot that we're paying attention to here,

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Speaker 7: but it does not appear that diplomatic talks or a

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Speaker 7: viable off ramp at the moment, even as The New

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Speaker 7: York Times reported this morning that Iranian operatives reached out

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Speaker 7: to the CIA through a third party country to talk

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Speaker 7: about potential negotiations the day after the attack started. However,

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Speaker 7: Ed and Caroline, we heard from President Trump just yesterday

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Speaker 7: saying that the time has passed for talks. As US

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Speaker 7: officials make clear that they are accelerating, not decelerating, as

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Speaker 7: this Defense secretary said earlier.

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Speaker 3: Today, lots of headlines on the Blouebg turn constantly about

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Speaker 3: what's happening in Iran. Buried also in the news cycle

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Speaker 3: is the latest on tariffs? What do we need to know?

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Speaker 2: Tyler Well And we.

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Speaker 7: Heard from the Treasury Secretary in an interview earlier today

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Speaker 7: who said that we should expect the global baseline tariff,

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Speaker 7: currently at ten percent, to go up to fifteen percent

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Speaker 7: as soon as this week. We also heard from the

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Speaker 7: European Union, according to people familiar with the matter, telling

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Speaker 7: Bloomberg News that that trading partner does not expect their

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Speaker 7: rate to go up to fifteen percent. Now keep in

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Speaker 7: mind President Trump put this new baseline tariff on the

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Speaker 7: table after the Supreme Court struck down his tariffs imposed

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Speaker 7: under IEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, and now

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Speaker 7: he's using this different authority. But that will run out

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Speaker 7: after one hundred and fifty days without congressional approval. But

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Speaker 7: I was in the Oval Office yesterday when the USTR

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Speaker 7: Jamison Grier, announced that we should expect the administration to

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Speaker 7: wrap up some of their other trade probs that would

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Speaker 7: put tariffs in place in a more durable sense within

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Speaker 7: the next five months. Section three h one investigations into

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Speaker 7: alleged unfair trade practices.

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Speaker 2: We already have those.

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Speaker 7: Investigations ongoing against China and Brazil. But Ed and Carolina,

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Speaker 7: a senior Administration official, tells me that we should expect

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Speaker 7: more investigations to be announced in the weeks ahead.

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Speaker 3: Blimberg, Tightler, Kendall, thank you very much. Let's get latest

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Speaker 3: on markets, technology, markets and sentiment with Todd Elstein, Panassa's

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Speaker 3: investment CEO and portfolio manager. I'm just looking down on

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Speaker 3: my Bloomberg. You know, the NAZA one hundred is now

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Speaker 3: modestly higher on the week. Things change very quickly. How

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Speaker 3: much of a shock, particularly to the technology sector and

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Speaker 3: the view of the technology sector has the war in

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Speaker 3: Iran bin?

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Speaker 8: Well, you know, it's a great question. Great to be

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Speaker 8: here today, and I think when you think long term,

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Speaker 8: when the S and P five hundred was down twenty

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Speaker 8: four basis points coming into today, you're today. So I

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Speaker 8: think this is really when you talk AI, this is

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Speaker 8: a generational investment where the demand for compute as the

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Speaker 8: economy goes agentic. It's just a very durable growth that

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Speaker 8: the war is clearly from a human standpoint, you know,

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Speaker 8: we hope and pray for a de escalation, but I

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Speaker 8: think the overarching investment wave is just going to be

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Speaker 8: very large over the next several years, and that's going

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Speaker 8: to be a durable trend to invest behind. Despite some

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Speaker 8: of the headlines and supply shocks we're seeing.

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Speaker 3: Today, we saw equities and creer the costs b drop

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Speaker 3: the most on record. As Caroline quite rarely points out,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's an issue of leverage as much as

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Speaker 3: anything else. What do you do in this situation? Where

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Speaker 3: you have a war in the Middle East, in Iran,

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Speaker 3: you have a fluids tariff policy, let's say, and again

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Speaker 3: you know we are looking in particular at the energy

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Speaker 3: sector in the context of Iran. What are you doing

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Speaker 3: right now, Todd?

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Speaker 8: Well, so, thirty first year at Parnassas, twenty five years

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Speaker 8: managing in the Parnassas core equity strategy. We haven't put

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Speaker 8: in a trade since this conflict began. We're focused on

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Speaker 8: great American companies, durable franchises, the AI investment wave and

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Speaker 8: just quality companies, quality compounders. So for us, our clients

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Speaker 8: really come to us during these times to invest in

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Speaker 8: durable businesses. So again the headlines can be emotionally jarring,

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Speaker 8: but we're not here to predict the price oil for

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Speaker 8: the next three weeks or some of the short term

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Speaker 8: supply shocks. It's really invest in durable earnings. Tech regime changes,

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Speaker 8: quality American companies, so it's the applied materials, the costcos,

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Speaker 8: the master cards, the Microsoft's and keep it low turnover.

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Speaker 8: And that's why our clients come to us during these

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Speaker 8: times for that long term perspective.

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Speaker 4: Ton is the long term perspective still one where you

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Speaker 4: build out an AI infrastructure or the winning trades of

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Speaker 4: twenty four twenty five, the in video is still the

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Speaker 4: way to go or is it shifting?

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Speaker 8: Well, I think there's a durable investment behind the infrastructure,

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Speaker 8: So we like to look for the bottlenecks and AI

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Speaker 8: and we think the compute demand is going to exceed

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Speaker 8: supply for quite some time, so we're looking to invest

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Speaker 8: in the building blocks of that AI infrastructure that are

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Speaker 8: increasingly valuable. So think about applied materials building the equipment

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Speaker 8: that builds the chips that are bending the laws of

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Speaker 8: physics and almost making impossible possible. Companies like Synopsis, which

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Speaker 8: sells the software that designs the chips, just think about

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Speaker 8: chips being thirty times more complex to design over the

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Speaker 8: next five years, going from two hundred billion transistors to

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Speaker 8: a trillion on a chip. More power, more performance, more workloads,

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Speaker 8: more augentic. So we're looking at those areas of the

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Speaker 8: AI value stream that are durable, again, designing the chips,

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Speaker 8: building the chips, and then that ecosystem. Clearly, companies like Amazon, Google,

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Speaker 8: Microsoft have scale. Companies Broadcom and custom Silicon, we think

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Speaker 8: they have a long run way of growth. So we're

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Speaker 8: looking for those value streams that are going to help

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Speaker 8: supply the compute needed for this economy long term, to

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Speaker 8: go agentic, which is more inference, which is more adoption.

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Speaker 4: Going agentic that has upended some trades when it comes

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Speaker 4: to software. I was lucky enough to speak with Paige Duty,

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Speaker 4: CEO and chair Jennifer Tohada yesterday, and she was talking

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Speaker 4: about how she sees the stickiness of certain software companies

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Speaker 4: such as Hers.

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Speaker 5: Just take a listen to what she said, Todd.

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Speaker 9: Somebody once told me that software, enterprise software is a

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Speaker 9: little bit like a tattoo. You can take it off,

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Speaker 9: but it's really painful and it leaves a mark. I

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Speaker 9: just think that our customers are going to make very

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Speaker 9: intentional choices about where they're going to invest in using

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Speaker 9: AI to build something themselves, and where they're going to

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Speaker 9: trust an expert.

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Speaker 4: Page Duty is about digital resilience Todd. But her argument

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Speaker 4: is that their moat is the infrastructure that they've spent

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Speaker 4: a lot of money building out and the trust that

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Speaker 4: they have with their customers. Where are you seeing opportunity

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Speaker 4: in software? Where are you concerned about in software?

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Speaker 8: Well, where we have some concerns is we recently exited

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Speaker 8: investments in service now and workday. Again good companies, just

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Speaker 8: the forward range of outcomes got too wide for us,

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Speaker 8: so we have backed away from those where we're invested

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Speaker 8: in software. Clearly, a Microsoft, we think is a dining

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Speaker 8: room table long term asset that they have in the

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Speaker 8: value chain. We also, again as we talked about a

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Speaker 8: moment ago like company Synopsis embedded in AI chip design

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Speaker 8: where we have silicon go into systems more complex transistors

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Speaker 8: and then infrastructure AI and robotics, we think a company

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Speaker 8: like Synopsis is embedded in workloads to unlock productivity of

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Speaker 8: chip designers. And so those are the areas that we

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Speaker 8: think are mody durable in workloads, and we think our

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Speaker 8: long term investments to make where the range of outcomes

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Speaker 8: we think is skewed more positive. So again a Microsoft,

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Speaker 8: a Synopsis a bit more concern around a workday and

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Speaker 8: a service now, and we remain invested in SALESFA Worse,

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Speaker 8: which we think is working hard to have an agentic platform,

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Speaker 8: and the valuation of salesforces relatively compelling if you look

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Speaker 8: at the forward embedded expectations.

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Speaker 4: Right now, certainly after a more than forty percent sell

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Speaker 4: off that we've seen in the last twelve months.

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Speaker 5: Todd, It's always great to catch up with you.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for your time today, Todd Olsen of Finass Investments.

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Speaker 5: Now coming up, we speaking with the Tato Institute.

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Speaker 4: Jennifer huddleson about the implications of the feud between the

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Speaker 4: Pentagon and Anthropic.

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Speaker 5: And what are you watching.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, some headlines just across the Bloomberg terminal and it

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Speaker 3: relates to Roadblocks. Nebraska's attorney general has filed a lawsuit

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Speaker 3: against Roadblocks, alleging that they have conducted deceptive safety practices,

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Speaker 3: including allegedly enabling child exploitation. That the stock still higher

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Speaker 3: five percentage point, it did sort of take a leg

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Speaker 3: lower in those headlines. Here will continue to track that

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Speaker 3: we have been tracking Roadblocks and other platforms when it

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Speaker 3: comes to safety.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech. A surprise move.

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Speaker 3: The architect of Ali Baba's main Ai platform, Quen, has

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Speaker 3: left the company. Jiang Lin was one of the most

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Speaker 3: influential figures behind Ali Baba's transition to AI. Linn did

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Speaker 3: not give a reason for his departure, which has raised

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Speaker 3: questions about the Chinese tech giants' future plans and the

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Speaker 3: country's ability to catch up to US competitors Linn and

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Speaker 3: Ali Baba representatives did not respond to messages seeking comment.

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Speaker 4: Currently, let's stick with AI ED because Anthropic is on

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Speaker 4: track to generate annual revenue of almost twenty billion dollars

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Speaker 4: based on current performance. Now that would actually nearly double

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Speaker 4: its run rate from late last year. As the AI

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Speaker 4: company's few though with the Pentagon continues. Let's get the

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Speaker 4: details of Bluemegg's editor across all Things AI, Seth Fiegerman,

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Speaker 4: is notable the scale at which Anthrobert continues to grow,

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Speaker 4: even though it might well be pushed out of government

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Speaker 4: work if the threats hold true.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, as you said, you know, it's more than double

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Speaker 10: a matter of months, which reflects the coverage that we've had,

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Speaker 10: you know, in the league up to the Pentagon showdown,

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Speaker 10: as we've seen more mainstream awareness of Anthropics, AI agents

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Speaker 10: and AI coding tools in particular. On the one handed,

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Speaker 10: shows that it has been like a position of strength

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Speaker 10: in the lead up to the standoff, you know, getting

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Speaker 10: significant traction in the enterprise market, but it also shows

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Speaker 10: what's at stake here. We're still waiting to see what

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Speaker 10: happens if the Pentagon moves forward with the threat as

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Speaker 10: leveled by Hagsavan Friday, and I think there's just generally

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Speaker 10: a lot of uncertainty about how broad the impact will

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Speaker 10: be on his business relationships.

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Speaker 3: As Anthropic was labeled a supply chain risk by the

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Speaker 3: US government. At the end of lost three week open

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Speaker 3: Ai did its own deal with the Pentagon right, and

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Speaker 3: Sam Altman, the CEO of open a I, came out

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Speaker 3: publicly and talked about how that was rushed and handled

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Speaker 3: in his sloppy fashion. Our latest reporting is a base one.

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Speaker 3: All hands within open ai yesday afternoon. What was said?

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Speaker 3: What do we need to know?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean peated some of that same rhetoric to

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Speaker 10: employees during his real first chance to address their concerns,

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Speaker 10: and reiterated the concerns that they might have been too

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Speaker 10: hasty and announcing this deal on fraggy, which might have

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Speaker 10: made them seem more opportunistic. He stressed that open ai

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Speaker 10: and the employees there are very much empowered to kind

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Speaker 10: of share their expertise about how to best use their

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Speaker 10: AI models, what their limitations and opportunities are, but he

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Speaker 10: also stressed that it is not Opening Eye's place to

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Speaker 10: basically weigh in on operational decisions from the Pentagon, by

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Speaker 10: which he meant maybe employees might disagree with what's happening

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Speaker 10: in Iran or with the rage in Venezuela, or they

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Speaker 10: might agree with one and not the other. It is

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Speaker 10: not their place to tell the Pentagon how to behave

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Speaker 10: on that matter.

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg Seth Figgman, Thank you very much. Let's discuss the

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Speaker 3: possible ramifications of a fallout between Anthropic and the pents.

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Speaker 3: Gott On Jennifer Huddleston as a senior fellow in Technology

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Speaker 3: Policy at the Cato Institute, and you wrote at length

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Speaker 3: about this a moment ago said that Anthropic had been

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Speaker 3: labeled a supply chain risk by the US government. You

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Speaker 3: go a little bit of a step further and say

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Speaker 3: that they've been blacklisted essentially, and that there will be

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Speaker 3: ramifications to that. Please take it from that.

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Speaker 11: So I think that there are two things to think about.

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Speaker 11: There's what does this mean for Anthropics specifically, and what

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Speaker 11: does this mean for the broader conversation around AI innovation

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Speaker 11: and the innovators in the American AI sector. For Anthropics specifically,

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Speaker 11: this could certainly have consequences, not only when it comes

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Speaker 11: to their contract with the Department of War. But we

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Speaker 11: saw President Trump post on True Social calling for all

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Speaker 11: agencies to stop using this product. And what signal does

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Speaker 11: this send to other whether it's contractors or other companies

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Speaker 11: that are using Anthropic, both here in the US as

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Speaker 11: well as around the world. More generally, for the AI community,

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Speaker 11: there's also likely to be concerned about what does this

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Speaker 11: mean that the government's willing to do in terms of

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Speaker 11: stepping in if they don't like the decisions of a

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Speaker 11: particular product. What does this also mean for America's AI

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Speaker 11: leaders when other countries around the world want them to

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Speaker 11: make changes for the government to use their products for

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Speaker 11: things that go beyond what they deem ethical.

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Speaker 3: In your paper, you cite the great Albus Dumbledore, and

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Speaker 3: you say, as he did at the end of.

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Speaker 2: The Philosopher's Stone or Sorcerer's Stone, if you're in.

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Speaker 3: America, it takes a great deal of bravery to stand

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Speaker 3: up to our enemies, but just as much to stand

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Speaker 3: up to our friends. Why did you invoke Albus Dumbledore?

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Speaker 3: And what are you trying to say that?

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Speaker 11: I think when we think about American companies typically standing

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Speaker 11: up to pressure from governments, we're thinking about will American

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Speaker 11: companies hold true to American values when they're faced with

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Speaker 11: pressure from foreign adversaries, when the Chinese or the Russian

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Speaker 11: government asks them to cross right lines that violate American values,

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Speaker 11: violate the ideas of civil rights or civil liberties. When

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Speaker 11: Anthropic was faced with some pressure from the US government

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Speaker 11: asking it to violate its ethics to make sure to

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Speaker 11: remove what it felt were necessary ethical safeguards to prevent

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Speaker 11: mass surveillance or the use of its AI and autonomous weapons,

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Speaker 11: it also said no. And that's something that shows a

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Speaker 11: great deal of courage, whether it's standing up to a

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Speaker 11: foreign adversary and understanding the business laws there, but particularly

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Speaker 11: when it's standing up to your own government knowing that

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Speaker 11: there could, in this case be very real consequences in

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Speaker 11: the market.

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Speaker 5: Jennifer, what caught my eye was saying, this is a kin.

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Speaker 5: This behavior is a kin to something we'd expect from

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Speaker 5: the Chinese government.

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Speaker 4: Now, where should the agreements or not go in the future.

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Speaker 4: You at the Cato Institute are all about limited government,

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Speaker 4: but at this moment there are deep ethical questions about

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Speaker 4: the future of generative AI and its implications for the

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Speaker 4: use in the military and written large for.

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Speaker 5: The labor market. How does this get decided.

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Speaker 4: Should it be a Congress decision, should it be just

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Speaker 4: a case by case decision.

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Speaker 11: One of the things that makes the situation unique is

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Speaker 11: this goes beyond just a mere dispute over a procurement

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Speaker 11: contract because of those additional threats, the threats to either

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Speaker 11: the Defense Production Act or to label the company a

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Speaker 11: supply chain risk. But I think it does highlight some

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Speaker 11: of the underlying concerns or debates over how should we

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Speaker 11: think about protecting civil liberties and civil rights when it

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Speaker 11: comes to AI use by the government. AI can be

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Speaker 11: used for wonderfully productive ways in the government, just as

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Speaker 11: it can in the private sector to help constituents find

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Speaker 11: the services they need, but there are also real and

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Speaker 11: legitimate concerns about the way it could be abused. Again

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Speaker 11: in this particular dispute too, the issues where mass surveillance

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Speaker 11: and autonomous weapons. One of the places that we need

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Speaker 11: clarity when it comes from policy makers is around what

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Speaker 11: the government's going to do to restrain itself in its

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Speaker 11: use of AI. This will help both citizens and innovators

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Speaker 11: feel more comfortable with the technology, both in the government

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Speaker 11: context and beyond.

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Speaker 4: Jennifer Hudelson is a fascinating blog. People should go read it.

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Speaker 4: Senior fellow and the Technology policy at the Cato Institute,

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Speaker 4: thanks so much for joining us today checking in on

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Speaker 4: shares of Apple that are trying to hold on to

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Speaker 4: gains today as they unveil yet more new products, and

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Speaker 4: this week they've announced plenty, but today it's the turn

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Speaker 4: of the MacBook Neo, with a starting price of just

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Speaker 4: five hundred ninety nine dollars.

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Speaker 5: Maybebug's Dana Wolman joins us for the details.

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Speaker 4: This is about four hundred bucks cheaper than the usual

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Speaker 4: price point for Apple.

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Speaker 5: Who are they going against here?

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Speaker 12: So this is really truly the first low end and

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Speaker 12: I hesitate to call it low end, but the first

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Speaker 12: low price laptop that Apple has put out, and this

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Speaker 12: puts it in direct competition with all sorts of Windows

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Speaker 12: PC makers that offer have long offered budget laptops, not

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Speaker 12: to mention Chromebooks, machines that are sold not just to

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Speaker 12: individuals who are on a budget, but also institutions like

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Speaker 12: schools that are buying in bulk.

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Speaker 2: The question is, well, how did they do it?

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Speaker 3: And one of the ways they did it was to

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Speaker 3: use the processor that has its ties to the iPhone,

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Speaker 3: not the M five chip.

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Speaker 2: Just explain what's going inside.

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Speaker 12: Yes, absolutely so, in terms of just the internals inside,

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Speaker 12: this puts the MacBook Neo about on part with an

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Speaker 12: iPhone sixteen Pro released in twenty twenty four. And I

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Speaker 12: think that the release of this machine really is a

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Speaker 12: testament to how far mobile silicon has gone. As I said,

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Speaker 12: companies have been offering lightweight, really cheap laptops for a

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Speaker 12: long time now, but just because they have been available,

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Speaker 12: that doesn't mean that we necessarily would have recommended them.

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Speaker 2: To most people. And that is because the processors available the.

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Speaker 12: Time for years were pretty low powered, and you really

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Speaker 12: could feel that in the form of slow, pokey performance.

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Speaker 12: And I think it is a testament to the quality

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Speaker 12: of the silicon and the technical advance the technological advancements

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Speaker 12: that Apple was willing to put out a machine at

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Speaker 12: this price point run the mobile processor inside.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean John turnis in a statement he's the hardware

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Speaker 4: engineering chief, talking about how from the ground up they've.

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Speaker 5: Built this piece of tech to be more affordable. But

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Speaker 5: this comes at a time.

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Speaker 4: Where personal electronics is getting more expensive all because of memory.

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Speaker 12: Yes, absolutely, it really is striking that Apple was able

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Speaker 12: to announce today a machine that's about six hundred dollars

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Speaker 12: at a time when we've been warned that the prices

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Speaker 12: of things like laptops smartphones are about to go up

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Speaker 12: precisely because of this memory crunch crisis. And I think

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Speaker 12: that the price point combined with the moment where everyone

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Speaker 12: is nervous about prices, about the prices of consumer electronics specifically,

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Speaker 12: and also just the fact that this is a fresh

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Speaker 12: new design with things like new colors, things that are

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Speaker 12: things that do frankly matter to consumers who've been possibly

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Speaker 12: holding off on a new purchase for a while. If

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Speaker 12: I had to guess, I think this is going to

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Speaker 12: be a popular seller over the coming month.

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Speaker 3: Right, And those macas and Mac pros, they had the

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Speaker 3: entry level lowest storage spec removed, which basically carry an

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Speaker 3: effective price hike. If you read the riding from the

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg News team, bloombergs day in a woman, thank you

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Speaker 3: very much, Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. The war in

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Speaker 3: Iran entering its fifth day, The story inequity markets at

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Speaker 3: least is technology rebounding. The Naze one hundred is off

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Speaker 3: session highs, but at one point four percent now positive

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Speaker 3: on the week. Things have changed very quickly. We still

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Speaker 3: see movement in bonds. Looking at the US tenure yield

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Speaker 3: four point zero six percent, it had at one point

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Speaker 3: in the last thirty six forty eight hours gone above

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Speaker 3: four point one percent. We're just kind of waiting to

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Speaker 3: see the next step politically speaking, but we are tracking

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Speaker 3: both public and a little bit later in the show

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Speaker 3: private markets too.

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Speaker 4: We certainly are, and look, big tech is leading the

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Speaker 4: charge in terms of stocks. Big tech is also heading

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Speaker 4: to Washington executives from Amazon, from Google, from open.

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Speaker 5: Ai, and others. That's that to me.

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Speaker 4: The President Trump today to formalize a pledge to protect

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Speaker 4: consumers from rising energy costs, so an event that Presidents

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Speaker 4: actually alluded to during his Stage of the Union address.

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Speaker 2: Remember, we're telling the major tech companies that they have

441
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 2: the obligation to provide for their own power needs.

442
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 13: They can build their own power.

443
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 6: Plants as part of their factory so that no one's

444
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,199
Speaker 6: prices will go up, and in many cases, prices of

445
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 6: electricity will go down for the community.

446
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 4: As kt w Berg Senior editor Mike Shepard and for

447
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 4: many we already heard Microsoft lead the charge, but then

448
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: Amazon others talk about commitments they've already made.

449
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 5: Well, that's right, and.

450
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 14: They're all going to step in with this pledge, the

451
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 14: so called ratepayer pledge. Later today during an event at

452
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 14: the White House with the President, it's set the start

453
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 14: at three pm and they are all going to assign

454
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 14: this agreement. It's non binding, but they will promise to

455
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 14: try to bear some of the additional costs that their

456
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 14: new data center build out for artificial intelligence projects and

457
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,639
Speaker 14: infrastructure will bring in terms of a rising electric city prices.

458
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 14: They want to make sure that as those data centers

459
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 14: are built, all those projects are carried out, that consumers

460
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 14: are not forced to bear the burden of that. And

461
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 14: now in this CARO, they will be agreeing to work

462
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,160
Speaker 14: with state governments and utilities on rate structures that will

463
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 14: try to protect consumers. But that is further down the road,

464
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,719
Speaker 14: and all this, it's important to note, is non binding,

465
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 14: so there's no guarantee that.

466
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: All of this will be carried out.

467
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 14: We are already seeing some states carrow take steps on

468
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 14: their own to try to shield consumers. In New Jersey,

469
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 14: for instance, the new governor, Democrat Mikey Cheryl, has frozen

470
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 14: utility rate hikes in keeping in mind the vulnerability that

471
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 14: consumers are increasingly feeling from rising electricity prices. The last

472
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 14: Consumer Price Index report that we saw showed that energy

473
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 14: prices are up six point three percent inutility bills, and

474
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 14: that compares to two point four percent in year over

475
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 14: year in overall inflation. So this is a leading indicator

476
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 14: in terms of what the president is worried about when

477
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 14: it comes to the affordability question, which looms large in

478
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 14: the midterm elections. But it also looms large for these

479
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 14: big tech companies which are worried about some of the

480
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 14: backlash and blowback from all those investments in artificial intelligent

481
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 14: artificial intelligence on which they have stake not only so

482
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 14: much money, but really their entror businesses.

483
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 3: Bloombergs Mike Shepard, thank you very much. Let's stay with

484
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 3: data centers. We talk a lot about advanced hardware on

485
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 3: this program for AI training and inference, but AI is

486
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: also creating demand for storage hard disk drives to store

487
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 3: the massive data sets AI generates. That's led to soaring

488
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 3: valuations like wd's formerly Western Digital. This is a stock

489
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: that has surged in the last year, up six percent

490
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 3: or so so far. In twenty twenty six is up

491
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 3: eight percent in the session alone. WDCO I mean ten

492
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 3: is with us and welcome to the program.

493
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 15: Thank you for having me.

494
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 3: You know, I think there are loads of people that

495
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: are going to watch this program and be like, I've

496
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: got a WD hard disk drive HDD somewhere.

497
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 2: In my home. I understand you have one and I

498
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: have one.

499
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 3: Right, and it protects some of my most valuable memories

500
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 3: in terms of photos and videos. But the story is

501
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 3: data center, and probably it's underappreciated to start with that,

502
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: where HDD fits in the data center story, and then

503
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 3: use that to contextualize what is crazy demand right now?

504
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 15: Sure, I mean, if you look at the AI value chain,

505
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 15: a lot of focus has been around the computer resources.

506
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 13: Right.

507
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 15: GPU's memory, that's a source of compute, that's generating data.

508
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 15: But ultimately data needs to get stored. That data that's generated,

509
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 15: that needs to be stored, right, and that's where hard

510
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 15: drives really come to the fork. Eighty percent of data

511
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 15: that is stored in the cloud is still on hard drives.

512
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 15: And if if you look at where things are going

513
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 15: with AI, what is happening is actually there's a structural

514
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 15: change in how hyperscalers. The market really looks at the

515
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 15: value of AI and as a result of that, as

516
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 15: a value of data increases by association, storage increases as

517
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 15: well because you need to stare more and more of

518
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,440
Speaker 15: that data. And a simple analogy to use is power generation.

519
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 13: Right.

520
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 15: If you think of GPUs and memory as the power generators,

521
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 15: data is actually the fuel that powers right those power plans, right,

522
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 15: and so really that is fundamental to enable EI going forward.

523
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 15: So in short, if you don't have HUDs to be

524
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 15: able to stall that data to generate that's been created, can.

525
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 3: We can we extrapolate on that analogy a little bit.

526
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: So when we think about a data center, we think

527
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 3: of it in terms of gigawats. A giga what equates

528
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: to hundreds of thousands of GPUs depending on the on

529
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 3: the stack. Is there an equivalent that our audience can

530
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 3: understand when it comes to storage, So you know, alike

531
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 3: for like that that you can chew on, maybe it's

532
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 3: impeted bites something like that.

533
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 15: At that scale, there isn't really a rule of tumb

534
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 15: that you could use, say, if you have a gigle

535
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 15: out of compute, how much does that translate into storage?

536
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 15: Because in a way, there's a bifurcation of compute from storage.

537
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 15: If you think about AI. Every time you run an

538
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 15: AI workload, whether it's training, it's inference, those compute resources

539
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 15: can be recycled every time you run a training model,

540
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 15: development or an inference worldload. But the data that's getting

541
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 15: generated and as a result that gets stored, it doesn't

542
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 15: get deleted.

543
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 9: Right.

544
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 15: So storage is actually growing because of the value of

545
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,880
Speaker 15: data increasing over time, and how.

546
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 4: Much is your supply growing? How much can you ramp

547
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 4: up to meet the first demand.

548
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 15: So we've projected that exerby growth, which is the amount

549
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 15: of storage just needed, is going to go at twenty

550
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 15: five percent CAGO over the next five years. We feel

551
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 15: very confident that with the technology enhancements they are bringing

552
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 15: to be able to deliver higher capacity drives to the market,

553
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 15: we're able to meet that demand going forward.

554
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 5: What's interesting is it's yourself and Seagate. Many would sort

555
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 5: of see as yeah, the place that people come to.

556
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 4: How are you ensuring with this first demand and perhaps

557
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 4: anxiety coming from cloud providers and they're like that they're

558
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 4: not double ordering, that they're not ordering from you. At

559
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 4: the same time as Seagate make sure that they get

560
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 4: the fastest of the speedies.

561
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 15: Yeah, that's something we pay very close attention to, looking

562
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 15: at the inventory levels that our customers have, working very

563
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 15: closely with them to reassure them that we have a

564
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 15: technology room net that's going to be able to meet

565
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 15: their needs. And I think what they also appreciated. Storage

566
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 15: has become a critical piece of the AIDETA center infrastructure

567
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 15: stack and as a result, we've really shifted the partnership

568
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 15: model with our customers. They're giving us really good insight

569
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 15: into the applications and workloads they're bringing to market over

570
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,960
Speaker 15: the next few years. A lot of it's going to

571
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 15: be multi model in nature, and what I mean by

572
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 15: lots of it's going to be a video based because

573
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 15: video is going to be a big driver of storage,

574
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 15: and that's giving us a lot more confidence in terms

575
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 15: of the demand that they're signaling to us and also

576
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 15: ensuring that they're not creating an oversupplying the market.

577
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 4: I mean, you talked about your innovation roadmap. Can we

578
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 4: talk a minute about hated assisted magnetic recording For those

579
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 4: who aren't in the lingo, but basically this is something

580
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 4: that Seget's been pushing forward on and you too, have

581
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 4: been bringing that sort of innovation.

582
00:29:59,160 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 5: Where are you in.

583
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 4: Terms of neck and neck and you're already bringing this

584
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 4: to customers.

585
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 5: How is it testing out?

586
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 14: What is it?

587
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 15: So we're already qualifying here this is a magnetic recording

588
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 15: or HAMMER affectionately as we call it, with two customers.

589
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 15: But we've taken a slightly different approach from our peer

590
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 15: where we feel a dual track process. Right. We definitely

591
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 15: are committed to HAMMER and that's required to get us

592
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 15: to one hundred terwer bytes per drive and beyond. But

593
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 15: in the interim, we feel that with our current EPMR

594
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 15: technology for the next three years, we can actually get

595
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 15: up to sixty terabytes and deliver it with more reliability,

596
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 15: more quality, and more scalability to our customers and a

597
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 15: hard transition to HAMMER.

598
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 2: So I've got to go back to something earlier. Why

599
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: don't you just increase capacity.

600
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 15: We don't need to increase unit capacity. What we're actually

601
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 15: doing is to use technology to increase the capacity per drive.

602
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 15: So today we're shipping at the top end of our

603
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 15: products a thirty two terrabyte hard drive. In the second

604
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 15: half of this year will be shifting shipping a forty

605
00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 15: terrabyte drive right between now and twenty twenty six will

606
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 15: be shipping close to a sixty tia Hart Drive. So

607
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,959
Speaker 15: just imagine that the capacity for drive is doubling in

608
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 15: the next two years, so we don't actually have to

609
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 15: increase the number of units we're producing. That's great for

610
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 15: our customers because it means better to all the cost

611
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 15: of ownership thru higher recdentity lower power consumption. That's something

612
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 15: that also it is the lower power demands of the listeners.

613
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: We are going to have to compress this.

614
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 3: But WD separated sand disc right nand Flash. That has

615
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 3: been an interesting financial transaction and hopefully we can get

616
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: to it of time. But the basic conviction is that

617
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 3: HDD is the way to go focus. But you know,

618
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 3: the Flash guys would argue in the context of the

619
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: data center in the cloud that SSD is going to

620
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 3: have a role. What is your latest thinking on how

621
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 3: that went and the project long term?

622
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 15: So I think that the spin has been a very

623
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 15: successful one. If you look at how both companies have

624
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 15: performed since the spin, close to.

625
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: A yeog astonishingly, but both have done really well.

626
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 15: I think what has given both companies is singular focus

627
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 15: on their specific technology road maps, specific segments of the

628
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 15: market that they play in as well, and specifically your point.

629
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 15: We are symbiotic, right. I mentioned eighty percent of data

630
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 15: that gets stored in the cloud on heart drives. SSDs

631
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 15: represent the next fifteen to twenty percent of it as well,

632
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 15: so it's a symbiotic relationship. There are some workloads that

633
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 15: require lower latency that are very much designed for SSDs.

634
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 15: When it comes to long term storage, the vast majority

635
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 15: of metadata to support training and AI inference going forward,

636
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 15: that's going to be leveraging hahds because of the superior

637
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 15: economics that we deliver. We've also launched a month ago

638
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 15: at our Innovation Day some new innovations coming out over

639
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 15: the next twelve to twenty four months that's going to

640
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 15: improve the data throughput and performance of hard drives. There

641
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 15: will also be able to support the needs of AI

642
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 15: workloads coming down the pode as well.

643
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 4: Your global company, we have a pretty global issue on

644
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 4: a hands at the moment, how are you thinking about

645
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: your supply chain? Carry thinking about ensuring that your customers

646
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 4: get what they need and when they want. When you

647
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 4: have manufacturing as far flung as Thailand as China.

648
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: Here in the United States, as well.

649
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 15: Yeah, we have a very global supply chain and quite

650
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 15: a diversified one as well, and we constantly model rist

651
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 15: scenarios like the conflict they're unfortunately seeing in the Middle

652
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 15: East right now. From our current perspective, we're keeping a

653
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 15: very close watch on it. I'm pleased to see us

654
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 15: of now, none of our employees in that region are

655
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 15: impacted and there's no material impact to our business as well.

656
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 4: We appreciate being so candid and talking us through what

657
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 4: is a fascinating part of the business. WD CEO there,

658
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 4: Irving Twang, Thank you. Let's return to the conflict in

659
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 4: the Middle East, where one of the major concerns has

660
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: been cyber strike, though so far no major attacks have

661
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 4: been reported. Let's speak with Sanaz Yahah, co founder and

662
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 4: CEO of cybersecurity start up Zafran and a former member

663
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 4: of the Israeli Unit eight two hundred, the country's military

664
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 4: spy units, as has anything been occurring and it's just

665
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 4: been protected thus far.

666
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 16: Hello, good morning. Yes, we are seeing increased activity in

667
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 16: scanning what we call reconnaissance in cyber of different cyber

668
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 16: actors and cyber groups. Some of them are activists just

669
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 16: want to make noise or denial of service.

670
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 13: But we're still seen seeing.

671
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 16: Like one of some of those apts trying to get access.

672
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 13: Mainly to critically infrastructure.

673
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 4: Thus far not to any end, but soon as what

674
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 4: are the tactics, what deployment, what sophistication do you tend

675
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 4: to see from Iran?

676
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 16: It's a good question. Look, actually they are very under pressure. Look,

677
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 16: this is the first time Iran ever launched a missile

678
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,359
Speaker 16: on a European country like Cyprus, so they are all out,

679
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 16: They are using all their existing arsenals, They are using

680
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 16: a lot of a to enable the value.

681
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,800
Speaker 13: But I don't see any more.

682
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 16: Sophistication that we have seen before, just big, big volume,

683
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 16: like they are all in all apps, and I do

684
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 16: believe that this time also since even the cyber groups

685
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 16: in Iran are kind of under pressure, there are being

686
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 16: attacks on those.

687
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 13: Places as well.

688
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 16: So I do think we should be more proactive, not reactive,

689
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 16: and make sure at least we have protection in place

690
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 16: against the non tools and techniques that they're using during

691
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 16: the last two.

692
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Years sana as.

693
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 3: Yesterday, the Homeland Security basically briefed the Senate on the

694
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 3: heightened domestic risk here in the United States in the

695
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: context of some form of response from Iran. With that

696
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: in mind, could you just help us understand Iran's cyber competence,

697
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 3: how much of a threat nation to nation they would

698
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: pose if cyber would be one of the tools or

699
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: things that they pursue in response to what is happening.

700
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 16: Yeah, for sure, cyber is a part of Iranian regimes

701
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 16: doctrine for defense and offense, and there are at least

702
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 16: three different entities in Iran.

703
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 13: That are actively.

704
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 16: Claiming and engaged with cyber offensive activities. One of them

705
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 16: is Ministry of Defense, the other one is Ministry of Intelligence,

706
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 16: and the last one is IRGC, which is like the

707
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 16: revolutionary regards. Each of them has tools and techniques and

708
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 16: a lot of people. And also there is some cyber

709
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 16: partnership between the nation states and a cyber crime So

710
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,760
Speaker 16: I believe that these people are going to be still

711
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 16: active and trying to deploy, for example, ransomware in many

712
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 16: critical infrastructure, financial, healthcare.

713
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 13: And at the.

714
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 16: Same time also there is some partnership between Iran and

715
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,439
Speaker 16: other countries as well.

716
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 3: Are we talking in terms of risk it being US

717
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: institutions that would be on paper at risk from such

718
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 3: an attack or is it sort of at the company

719
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 3: in corporate level where America is most on the defense.

720
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 16: The company and corporate ve like for the hackers, they

721
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 16: are now looking for low hanging fruits. Look, there is

722
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 16: something to understand about Iran. Iran main goal is to

723
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 16: keep the government stable. There is nothing they want to

724
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 16: achieve more than just being governing Iran, and for that

725
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 16: they have to show impact that they are strong, right,

726
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 16: So more of the impacts is just to show that

727
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 16: they can impact and damage Western companies corporate level and

728
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,839
Speaker 16: in order to gain back like that prestige they have

729
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 16: inside Iran.

730
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 13: So there is no safe zone.

731
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 16: And I think actually those that they don't have cyber

732
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 16: practice and cyber resilience in place, they are those that

733
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 16: they will be the first victims.

734
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:21,359
Speaker 13: Of this run.

735
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 4: So as of course, many would say that in this

736
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 4: era of general to AI, well, the threat level just

737
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 4: spiked to the right in many areas of cyber You

738
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 4: are an AI native Threat Exposure Management company. So how

739
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 4: is AI being deployed by Iran if at all?

740
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 13: At this moment, Iranian are using some.

741
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 16: Public AI modules in order to scale their weapons and

742
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 16: the way you do a cyber activity, you need to

743
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 16: get access first, and then you need to propagate that

744
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 16: access to get your mission. They are using it in

745
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 16: order to get access much more like that. Scanning is

746
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 16: being done a lot by AI. They even built new

747
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 16: weapons by AI at the same time. Since and we

748
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 16: know about at least some of the groups doing their

749
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 16: own agents in.

750
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 13: AI as well.

751
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 16: At the same time, it looks like they are at

752
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 16: the beginning somehow in the journey and we find some bogs,

753
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 16: if I'm saying their tools. Last summer they tried to

754
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 16: hack some water system in New York and they had

755
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 16: enough books I.

756
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 13: Created malwers that they didn't run fully.

757
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 16: But what is important, I think for your audience there

758
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 16: is that the I is an also great impact for protection.

759
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 16: Like before this you had to go and learn and

760
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 16: understand like forty different groups and watch tools they have.

761
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 16: Now those agents can also help the enterprise level and

762
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 16: help the market to be reducing that exposure to the

763
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 16: risk in a very autonomous Slippon.

764
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 3: Sanas Yesha, CEO of Zephyran, it's great to have you

765
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: on the program.

766
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

767
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 3: As story we broke yesterday, Josh Chusten's five Capital and

768
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 3: Indries and Horowitz are Co leading a fundraising round for Anderil.

769
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: They can nearly double the defense deck startups valuation. That's

770
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 3: according to sources who say they're seeing to raise four

771
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: billion dollars at about sixty billion post money valuation. Carry

772
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: interesting timing given what's happening in the defense sector in Iran.

773
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 3: Interesting these two big venture firms leading this late stage.

774
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 4: Round and again another company that remains private for as

775
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 4: long as possible. But what's notable is we're at this

776
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 4: moment where we're questioning autonomous great weaponry.

777
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 5: We're at this moment of.

778
00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 4: Ethical questioning, and we wonder how much that's something that's

779
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: been debated in an investment.

780
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 3: There's no confirmation that any aerial tech has been used

781
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: in Iran and no evidence or reports, but they do

782
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: have deployment anti drone deployments in the Middle East with

783
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: so common on US military basis. But they want to

784
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: evolutionized the entire military tech stack.

785
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 4: Essentially, they certainly do, and we keep a close eye

786
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,359
Speaker 4: on the activity of both thriving A sixteen Z and

787
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 4: how it continues to foster some of these enormously valued

788
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 4: companies here.

789
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 5: In the US.

790
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, coming up, all eyes are on broad Coom, a

791
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 4: publicly US trade in company.

792
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 5: That has results after the bell, we'll discuss that. Next

793
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: it's a BLUEBG Tech.

794
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 3: We're still keeping an eye on tech earnings and next

795
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 3: start being Broadcom. After the closing bell, Wall Street expecting

796
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 3: the chip maker to report strong results, but based on

797
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 3: recent trading patterns, that likely won't be enough to reverse

798
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 3: the stocks months long. Slum Let's get out to Bluebow

799
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: Tech Equities, reported Carmen rhyani Key. The expectation is they'll

800
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 3: tell us more AI chip revenues from a six, but

801
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: it will weigh on margins right because of the mix

802
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 3: and it being lower margin against their software businesses.

803
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:00,800
Speaker 2: What are we going to wait for? What are we

804
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 2: going to watch for?

805
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 17: Yeah, I mean those numbers are going to be really important.

806
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 17: I think something that investors are specifically focused on is

807
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 17: this sev seventy three billion dollar backlog that the company

808
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 17: talked about in its latest quarterly earnings release. So in

809
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 17: that December release, CEO howk Tan tried to make it

810
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 17: clear that that was a minimum that they were expecting

811
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 17: in revenue over the coming few quarters for AI, but

812
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 17: investors thought that that fell a little bit shorred what

813
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 17: they were wanted. That sent shares down after that report,

814
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,799
Speaker 17: and they've really struggled to recover ground ever since. So

815
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 17: that's something that's going to be really important. The other

816
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 17: thing that I'm going to be watching is how the

817
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 17: company talks about its software unit and the questions that

818
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 17: analysts ask around that. So that used to sort of

819
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 17: be a benefit, it would offset the cyclical nature of

820
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 17: a semiconductor portion, but now it's looking like a little

821
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 17: bit more of an anchor and is also probably something

822
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 17: that's weighed on shares in the last few months.

823
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, SOFA has been beaten up as notable is Broadcom

824
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 4: shares of down significantly, but they're still quite expensive in

825
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 4: comparison to well historical numbers.

826
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 17: Yeah, so we've seen the valuation come in a little bit,

827
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 17: you know, in this broader slump, but they still trade

828
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,840
Speaker 17: at seventy twenty seven excuse me times forward earnings, and

829
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 17: this is a premium to both the S and P

830
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 17: and in video, and so investors are maybe looking at

831
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 17: that and saying, you know, maybe this is too expensive.

832
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 17: It should come down a little bit more. It's above

833
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 17: the five year average four stocks, So definitely something that

834
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 17: people will be watching, especially after in Vidia's earnings last week.

835
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 17: We're so good and then the investor reaction was so muted.

836
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 3: It's kind of funny timing in the earning cycle. We're

837
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: either kind of late depending on how you look at it.

838
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 2: And this is their fiscal first quarter.

839
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: I think they have like a seventy three billion dollar

840
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 3: backlog for the A six part or AI Chip's part.

841
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 3: Do we look at Broadcom as like a learning for

842
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 3: what's happening in aggregate in AI, data center demand and

843
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 3: so on.

844
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 17: Yeah, I think that it definitely has a little bit

845
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 17: of that feel in the market. It you know, it

846
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 17: also has these partnerships with Google's TPUs. That's something that

847
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 17: investors will be looking for. They want to know that

848
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 17: that business is sustainable going forward, especially given large orders

849
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 17: from Inthropic and I think open Ai as well. Those

850
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 17: orders expected to sort of ramp into twenty twenty seven.

851
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 17: And as I sort of said before, there's also this

852
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 17: big software part of the business, which is mostly from

853
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 17: their acquisition of VMware. So there's a lot of places

854
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 17: in this company that you could look for some sort

855
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 17: of insight into how, you know, AI is going, how

856
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,320
Speaker 17: this trend is progressing.

857
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,040
Speaker 4: How have people seen it as a key competitor to

858
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: in video going forward? How much No matter how many

859
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 4: of these companies say they're developing their own I six,

860
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 4: open AI has, Meta has in many we still just

861
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 4: can't get away from what feels like the dominance of

862
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 4: in video and.

863
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 5: GPU out and OWCPU.

864
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 17: You're totally right, and Broadcom is really I think made

865
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 17: a name for itself. It's been able to capture some

866
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 17: of that market share with these different kind of chips,

867
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,399
Speaker 17: but in Vidia is still the king maker there. It's

868
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 17: the leader in the market, and it's expected to be

869
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 17: able to have sort of the biggest part of the

870
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 17: market share going forward. So most analystic investors seem to

871
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 17: think that that pie is still big enough to mean

872
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 17: that there's revenue to be had for a lot of

873
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 17: different companies. But program certainly has I think a little

874
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 17: bit more maybe to prove on those sort of specific

875
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 17: things when they're competing with something as large as in Vidia.

876
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 3: On any given day, calmen, you're usually responsible or partly

877
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 3: responsible for some of the most red stuff on the terminal.

878
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 3: And you've got a piece about chart watches, the risk

879
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 3: of the s and P five hundred correction and what's

880
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 3: happening in Iran. Summarize that and the data that you're

881
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 3: seeing as best you can.

882
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,239
Speaker 17: Yeah, So, something that was really interesting yesterday, sort of

883
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 17: the intra day lows in the market. It looked like

884
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 17: the S and P was breaking out of this very

885
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 17: narrow range that we've seen over the last few months

886
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 17: and especially during the start of this year. It didn't

887
00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 17: quite close there, but chart watchers are definitely interested in

888
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 17: this sixty eight hundred level and breaking to the downside

889
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 17: as it looked like might happen yesterday, would potentially portend,

890
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,919
Speaker 17: you know, the future decline. So the next level people

891
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 17: are watching would be you know, sixty seven hundred, sixty

892
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 17: six hundred and then even going down maybe to the

893
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 17: two hundred daily moving average. Now on the flip side,

894
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 17: if we could break back over that seven thousand range,

895
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 17: it could portend you know, further upside for the S

896
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,399
Speaker 17: and P. So we're watching that all very closely.

897
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 5: Common Ranicky across the markets. We so appreciate it. Thank you,