1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: Body Backs with Joseph Scott Morgan. You can say many 2 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: things about my beloved home state of Louisiana that will 3 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: give you a sense of what people think about the place. 4 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: You know, the first thing I think of is, you know, 5 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: the love that I have for my family that are there. 6 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: I think about our food, our cuisine, arguably, i'd argue 7 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: with anybody, probably the most unique in the US. You 8 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: can talk about our music. No one touches our music, 9 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: whether it's zodiko or Country and Western or the jazz 10 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 1: clubs that inhabit those dark spaces in the French Quarter. 11 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: But one thing I think that everybody can consistently come 12 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: to grips with when it comes to New Orleans is 13 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 1: a temperature. And I can't tell you over the years 14 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: how many people I've heard say that they have never 15 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: been so hot as they were on a trip to 16 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: New Orleans during the middle of summer. And that brings 17 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: about thoughts. You think about, well, how did your ancestors 18 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: ever survive in that environment before days of conditioned air. 19 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: If you will, you feel like you're gonna melt. But 20 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, there is a young woman, actually there was 21 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: a young woman. She's no longer with us, and she died, 22 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:08,679 Speaker 1: but what was left behind of her has been described 23 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 1: in terms of having melted away. And I can tell 24 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: you this it had nothing to do with the heat 25 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: of Louisiana. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body vats. 26 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: It's often said, I think you know that you can 27 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 1: never take off enough clothes when it's hot outside, Dave. 28 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: Some people will say, well, if it's cold, I can 29 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 1: always bundle up. I can get a layer upon layer. 30 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 2: Now. 31 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: I know my friends up in Minnesota and North Dakota 32 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: and up in Wisconsin will probably take exception to that. 33 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: And I'm not even going to talk to my friends 34 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: up in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Beautiful area up there, 35 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: but they do no cold and they many of them 36 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: will say, I prefer the heat any day. But I 37 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: think you know where I'm going with this. If you 38 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: you can layer up and bundle up to a great degree. Now, 39 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,360 Speaker 1: it makes it uncomfortable, you can't move around. But there's 40 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: just something about being in an environment where you're incredibly 41 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: hot and always sweating, miserable. It's almost like a sickness. 42 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can't get past it. And we experience that 43 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 1: heat here in Alabama as well to a certain degree, 44 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: don't we, Dave, Yeah, somewhat, but yeah, you can, you know, 45 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: and but bodies, you know, that are subjected to this 46 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: kind of in these environmental conditions, they change and decay rapidly. 47 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: But you know, Dave, the story that that we're going 48 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: to talk about, I don't necessarily want to talk about it, 49 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: but I feel like it needs to be said. The 50 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: decay that took place where the young woman's body didn't 51 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: take place after death. 52 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 2: Dave, that's what you know as you're talking about melting 53 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: and those things, and it's because it's been described that 54 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: thirty six year old Lacey Fletcher melted into the couch 55 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 2: in her parents' home as we talk about this today, 56 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 2: and that's the end, Okay, the end is that she 57 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 2: was found melted into the counch. You're going to have 58 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: to describe this for us because I picture it from 59 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: a temperature standpoint, you know, as ice cream melts, But 60 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 2: in this case, we're dealing with the human being who 61 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: I'm looking at pictures of her when she's in ninth 62 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 2: grade and she's healthy, she's playing on the volleyball team, 63 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 2: and then her parents check her out of school and 64 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: homeschool her. And the next thing we find out is 65 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 2: that nobody's heard from her in years until they get 66 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: a call that she's passed away at the age of 67 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: thirty six. 68 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: What was striking about Lacey's case is that the corner 69 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: who is in fact, who is in fact a physician, 70 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: and it's this actually, this case takes place in East 71 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: Feliciana Parish, Louisiana, is well, it's a it's in a 72 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: unique spot. It's it's a spot that if you have 73 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: any sense of South Louisiana and you know where, you 74 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: know where Lake Pontchatrain is, Lake Pontchatrain sits north of 75 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: New Orleans. And if you think of Louisiana as a boot, 76 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: which is kind of shaped like it would be the 77 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: top of the bottom of the boot, it's part of 78 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 1: South Louisiana. And this is where this family lived in 79 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: the corner who you know, attended the scene. He physically 80 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: bore witness to Lacey's body. This gentleman, his name is 81 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: doctor Yule Beckham. He actually came to the home. You know, 82 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: he saw this young lady laying on the sofa and 83 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: she had smell of urine, which I know that obviously 84 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: many people can identify, you know what the smell of 85 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: urine is like. But after an area has been super 86 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: saturated with urine, it takes on a very strong ammonia smell, 87 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: and so that would be one of these things that 88 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: like hits you in the face. It's assaulting. The smell 89 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: itself is assaulting you. Couple that with also this this 90 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: idea that she's not clean relative to her backside, and 91 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: so she's laying in her own feces, so urine and feces. 92 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: It looks as though to him that she's been laying 93 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: there for a protracted time, and she's actually on a sofa, 94 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: family sofa, and there are other seating areas around her. 95 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: So whoever is in dwelling this house, which turns out 96 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: to be her parents, they're in dwelling this environment with 97 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: their daughter laying on the sofa and smelling like this 98 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: all of the time. And one of the things he 99 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: describes is that he saw in dwelling maggots and these 100 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: maggots had taken up home in her body. And this 101 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: is not unheard of. I've worked several cases like this. 102 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: A lady that had untreated breast cancer, and she had 103 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: in dwelling maggots in one of her breast And I've 104 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: seen this before, but to this degree, I just don't know. 105 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: But doctor Yule, he actually made the comment, Dave, that 106 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: it appeared as though that this poor woman had melted. 107 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: That's an inaccurate term, because she's not. You know, to melt. 108 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: To for something to melt, you have to have a 109 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: constant heat source. You know, you think about take an 110 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: ice cube, you put it adjacent to to the flame, 111 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: and it's going to, you know, go from solid into 112 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,679 Speaker 1: a liquid. It could vaporize. That's not what we're talking 113 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: about here. We're literally talking about this young woman who 114 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: has laid on the sofa for so long day that 115 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: her body has begun to digest itself and there is 116 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: this liquid product that is produced by the cells beginning 117 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: to break down. The cyte applasm actually in the cells 118 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: himself is leaching out. The maggots are feeding off of 119 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: this because this is a source of protein for them. 120 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: And I can't even I don't know that anybody out 121 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:46,679 Speaker 1: there could even actually begin to imagine the level of 122 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: discomfort an individual would have to be suffering from in 123 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: order to not sense this. But here's here's the real 124 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: road with this day. She was in an infirmed static position. 125 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,239 Speaker 1: She was in what the medical professionals referred to in stasis, 126 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: just laying there, and she required assistance because she's autistic 127 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:23,479 Speaker 1: and she's nonverbal. So wherever her placement is on the 128 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: spectrum of autism, it had the component of it where 129 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: she apparently over these years she had mentioned that she 130 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: had attended school at one point in time, but she 131 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: was noncommunicative. She's laid their day. She laid there as 132 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 1: her body began to give up. She laid there as 133 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: the sofa began to give way, its threadbare. You can 134 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: see the cushions, the interior, this foam rubber. Laid there 135 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 1: and just wasted, wasted away. She's nonverbal. How is she 136 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: going to complain? What's she going to do? We do 137 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: know this though it was twenty years Dave, It was 138 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: twenty years since the last time anyone had any awareness 139 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: of the status of Lacey. You read these old stories 140 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: out of the Bible, and you think about these people 141 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,359 Speaker 1: that were in these miserable conditions. Maybe they had leprosy, 142 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: or they were deemed unclean, they were unhealthy. Maybe they 143 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: were paralytic, and they're laying outside the gates of the 144 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: city and they're crying mercy, mercy, you know, for anybody 145 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: that would come by and extend extend mercy to them 146 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: to help them. But Dave, you know, in this case 147 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: with we've got a thirty six year old woman with 148 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: autism that's nonverbal, and I think, at least in my 149 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: estimation that I don't I don't know of anyone maybe 150 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: an East FOLII in a parish that deserved more mercy 151 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: than her, and it wasn't even extended by her own family. Day. 152 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 2: That's what we're dealing with here. And Sheila Fletcher and 153 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: Clay Fletcher are the parents of Lacey Fletcher. Now they're 154 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 2: both sixty six. Lacey was thirty six. I say was 155 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 2: because she is no more. To say that she melted 156 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 2: is not to be disrespectful. Joe and I both, in 157 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 2: looking at this story, have come to it from different ways. 158 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: Because I'm not a medical doctor. I don't know biology. 159 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: I fell asleep in those classes. The science classes didn't 160 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 2: attract my attention. I probably was watching something different. But 161 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 2: what does get me as a as a father is 162 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: to think of about how when I look at my children, 163 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: my grandchildren, I think about what can I do to 164 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 2: make their day better? What can I do to protect 165 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 2: them from harm? What can when they cry, when they 166 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 2: stub a toe? I want to take the pain away. 167 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 2: I don't want them to even have that. And I 168 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: think about that as a as a father, and now 169 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,839 Speaker 2: as this mom and dad who I don't know how 170 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: this happened. This Lacey Fletcher was active, was okay. I 171 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: know she's on the spectrum with autism and was non verbal. Joe, 172 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,839 Speaker 2: is that something that can happen after? 173 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: It would seem, Yeah, it would seem because I think 174 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: you even had mentioned that the image that we saw 175 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: of her, she was in the chorus. 176 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: She's yes, I've got a picture of her. She looks 177 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: to be about sixteen years old. She is active, she played, 178 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 2: She played on the volleyball team. I don't know how 179 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: one becomes. 180 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't either, because I go at Jacksonville State, my 181 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,560 Speaker 1: family and I we go support our women's volleyball team. 182 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: And let me tell you something that might be some 183 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: of the most verbal human beings I've ever been around 184 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: in my life. And so the shouting and the screaming 185 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: and everything that goes on there, and then of course, 186 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: so yeah, you would think that something triggered, triggered, you know, 187 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: along the way. And isn't it kind of interesting that 188 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: she was in a private school setting and then she's 189 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: abruptly removed and then for all we know, she just 190 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: she just shut down and they placed her on the sofa. Dave, 191 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: I got to tell you in full. I have to fully, 192 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: you know, kind of tell you how I got involved 193 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: in this case. I'd had the folks at News Nation 194 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: reach out to me with Ashley Banfield Show, and they 195 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: wanted me to talk about the Shong woman that had 196 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: melted into the sofa and breaking news happened and whatever. 197 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: We couldn't make it happen for that appearance, but you know, 198 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: I just did a cursory read at first, she's melting 199 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: the sofa, and I'm thinking, Okay, this is one of 200 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: these cases where someone has died and the family just 201 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: ignored the body and left the body on the sofa. 202 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: And I've been around those cases. I've worked those kinds 203 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: of cases. People do do that where they have a 204 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: loved one that just dies in the house. You see 205 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: them in the news frequently and the bodies are decomposing, 206 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: the people are still living around them day. That's not 207 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: what happened here. You're talking about this slow role. How 208 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: many years? Tell me again? How many years? Again? 209 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 2: Was I We know for at least twenty years, at 210 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 2: least twenty years she was left unchecked. We had no 211 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 2: health insurance claims, we had no visits to a doctor. 212 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 2: We only know that she last saw a doctor in 213 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: two thousand and two, when she was sixteen years old. 214 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 2: That's the last record we have of her. And as 215 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: you look into this, you're thinking, she's sixteen, we're looking 216 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: at pictures, she's playing volleyball. Now we go twenty years 217 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 2: later and she's dead, and we're told that she was autistic, 218 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 2: diagnosed with autism, and she was nonverbal after this had 219 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 2: to be after she was taken out of the private 220 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 2: school and she was on the couch. And here's the 221 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 2: other part, because we know that she didn't see a 222 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: doctor for twenty years, and she's autistic with you know, 223 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: and on the spectrum that you would expect her to 224 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 2: have to see a doctor. 225 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you would. And if she's nonverbal, if let's 226 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: just say that she has developed that she was on 227 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: the spectrum, and because she was not receiving any kind 228 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: of therapy, you know, to just live day to day. 229 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: That buddy, let me tell you, the breaks came off, 230 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: and she just began flying down the hill. And she's 231 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: going down the hill so fast that as she begins 232 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: to diminish over a period of time, maybe she completely 233 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: shuts down and she just goes into this status where 234 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: she is non mobile, she's nonverbal, she can't tell them 235 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: what she wants, but she's suffering from all these maladies 236 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: all of her body. 237 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 2: The coroner suggesting that she had not moved from that 238 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 2: spot on the couch for twelve years. Not moved. That 239 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 2: means that her mother and father brought her her food. 240 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 2: I want to go over something very quickly. But they 241 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: brought her food, they brought her water, They brought her 242 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 2: and allowed her to Granted, they had to have cleaned 243 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 2: up some of her They had to have cleaned up something. 244 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: There's no way you could have twelve years of human waste, 245 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: of excrement urine all around you. You couldn't hold that much. 246 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: I will no, you couldn't. And here's another thing, Dave, 247 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: that I find very interesting, because they've got these ghastly images. 248 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: And it might be the Post or Daily Mail. I'm 249 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: not really sure which one, but they had gotten these 250 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: image just where her body is actually blurred out. But Dave, 251 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: this is like a The sofa that she's on is 252 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: a brown leather. It looks like leather. It's probably some 253 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: kind of naugahide or something like that. She's laying it, 254 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: and you know it's the ones with the big cushions. 255 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: Well in the center of these you can make this 256 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: out the entire sofa. That cushion has cratered out. Man, 257 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: it's cratered out. And I mean it's worn down. I 258 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: mean we all know. I mean, if you got and 259 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: you buy a sofa, right, you buy a sofa, maybe 260 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: your old one has gotten threadbare. It is worn. It's 261 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: like it doesn't have the same spring to it anymore. 262 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: And so it's like I want to divest myself with 263 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: the thing. I'm going to throw it on the junk 264 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: pile or maybe you know somebody can come and pick 265 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,040 Speaker 1: it up for charity. And you got and buy a 266 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: new one, well, you want a new one and you 267 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: want it to be nice so you can sit on it. 268 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: You're also how long it would take for someone to 269 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: wear through, to wear through all of those various surfaces 270 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: on top of that sofa. So when the corner comes 271 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: out and he's already been assaulted, his senses have been assaulted. 272 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: He's assaulted, you know, certainly with what he smells and 273 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: then what he sees, and then laying there before him, 274 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: when he begins to do his examination, there are things 275 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: that are going to stand out to him. He's going 276 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 1: to see the filth that this young lady is surrounded by. 277 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: He knows that it's been in dwelling for some time. 278 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: Because I think anybody, any right thinking person can look 279 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: at an area that's blown out on the sofa and 280 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: know that this is something that didn't happen overnight. This 281 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: is because look all the other cushions around her, they were. 282 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: Intact, and so she had set You can see where 283 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 2: she sat spot. 284 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: How do you know, how does that happen over that 285 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: period of time? 286 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 2: The parents mom took her to a psychologist in ninth grade, 287 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 2: well at fourteen, to a clinical psychologist, because she suffered 288 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 2: severe social anxiety. Apparently, and this is what the defense 289 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 2: is saying. The parents loved her so much they just 290 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,360 Speaker 2: put her on the couch and weighted on her hand 291 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 2: and foot. That's what they're trying to say, these parents did. 292 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 2: But Joe, there were bed sores. She has sonic bone infection. 293 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: She has is covered in ulcers with fibers from the 294 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 2: sofa maggots that she had. They're embedded in the exposed 295 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: surface of the bones. She had to be alive when 296 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: the exposed surface of her bones are there for mom 297 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 2: and dad at sea before she passed away. Of course, 298 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: there was fecal matter in several places around her body. 299 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 2: They had to have cleaned yup some but I mean 300 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 2: twelve years. She didn't move for twelve years, she did 301 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 2: not She stayed in that spot. Yeah. 302 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you think about that, and you think about 303 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: these these indwelling sowres that she has. And one of 304 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: the reasons, and for those in the audience that have 305 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: had to bear the burden of taking care of an 306 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: infirmed family member or maybe somebody that's up in age, 307 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: you know, one of the most important things they tell 308 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: you to do with people in this status is to 309 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: roll them. You have to. You have to roll them 310 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: to get them out of those dependent, gravitationally dependent areas. 311 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: So is that what causes it is not moving. You 312 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: leave them in one spot. And if folks at home 313 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: will just think about just think about if you right now, 314 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: if you reach over and you feel your ribs, okay, 315 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 1: and you can actually feel the margins of your ribs. 316 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: So just imagine if you lay on I don't know, 317 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: pick aside left or right side, and you stay in 318 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: that position forever and ever a men, even though you 319 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: have soft tissue in between your ribs and the outer 320 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: portion of your body, over a period of time, if 321 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: you don't move from that position. I'm merely using the 322 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: ribs as an example. Because that bone is very close 323 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: to the surface. The surface of the bone is going 324 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: to wear through the underlying subcu fat, through any kind 325 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: of musculature that might be there, and then into the 326 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: dermis of the skin. It's kind of the pressure is 327 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: coming from internally as opposed to getting having an external injury. 328 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: This is something that is eroding from the outside, I 329 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: mean from the inside and then outward because of that pressure, 330 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,920 Speaker 1: and then externally the contact surface, which in this case 331 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: would have been the surface of the sofa. It's also 332 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: rubbing up against this area. So if she even made 333 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: the slide, this movement but stayed roughly in the same 334 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: same position. That's creating friction on the surface of the skin, 335 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,199 Speaker 1: and it's wearing away day. It's wearing a way every 336 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: single day because she's not being moved, her body's not 337 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,360 Speaker 1: being tended to, she's certainly not being cleaned. Because when 338 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: somebody in a nursing home and it does happen, it 339 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,159 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that someone's being necessarily neglected in nursing home 340 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: if they have a bet sore. However, if you do 341 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: not attend to bed sores, they are absolutely positively lethal. 342 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: They have to be essentially debreded, kind of scraped out. 343 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: They have to be treated with various creams, antibiotics, these 344 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 1: sorts of things, and the idea is to get them 345 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: off of those gravitationally depended areas so you can have healing. 346 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: The prob that rub is here is that if you 347 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: have someone that can't move themselves, what are you going 348 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: to do? I mean, you can only flip somebody so 349 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: many times. But it sounds to me as though that 350 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: there was so little movement and care taken with her 351 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: that it just wore away. 352 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: How do you get a chronic bone infection that sounds. 353 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: It's markedly painful, and a lot of a lot of 354 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: that well, it goes to the fact that the bone 355 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: is wearing as well, and so you know, the bone 356 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: actually has vasculature itself, it actually has vessels that come 357 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: through the bone, and so the wear on that surface, 358 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,479 Speaker 1: you know, one of one of the things I always 359 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 1: always imagine many times if I ever go out to 360 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: the West Coast and I see the shoreline out there 361 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: with those big rocks, and I think about how big 362 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: were those rocks at one point in time, because they're huge, 363 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 1: particularly if you go up toward northern California and Oregon. 364 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: You get up in that area, but you know, over 365 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: a period of time, the wear from the wind and 366 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: the sand, you know, kind of pummeling that area. Once 367 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: you get past that cushion that you have have with 368 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: the body, where you have this layer of skin subkey fat, 369 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: you have overlying muscle tissue. Once that's gone, the bone 370 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: now is as tough and resilient as we think that 371 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: it is. It's now exposed to the outside world. Bone 372 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: is not meant to be exposed to the outside world 373 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: in a living creature. And we've even got it to 374 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: the point now where the bone is apparently eroded to 375 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: the point where they've got indwelling maggots that are there. 376 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: And you know that that's the other thing that's that's 377 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: quite striking about this case, Dave. You know, when you 378 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 1: think about that in dwelling in the in these sores 379 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,679 Speaker 1: are going to be maggots. You're going to have eggs 380 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: that have been laid and here's what they spring forward 381 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: from the eggs of flies. All right, And every species 382 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: of insect out there has some form, but particularly in 383 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: a case like this, what we're talking about are probably 384 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: common house fly, the blowfly, and when these creatures deposit 385 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: their eggs, there's a cycle that they go through. And 386 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: you know, and my friends that work in forensic entomology, 387 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: such as the great Jason Bird, if you ever get 388 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,479 Speaker 1: a chance to reading things by doctor Bird, he's a 389 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: fascinating guy. But you know, we measured in death investigation, 390 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: now we're talking about dead bodies here. We measure the 391 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: life cycle of how many generations of flies have come 392 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: into a location and laid eggs, and they've gone through 393 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,360 Speaker 1: the whole cycle where they have the eggs and they 394 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: shed their their the husk and they blossom into you know, 395 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: adult flies. How do you how do you take to 396 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: measure that with a living person. Now, there have been 397 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 1: throughout history cases where people have had infection in their 398 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: bodies and maggots at one point in time were actually 399 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: prescribed by the medical community because the maggots placed into 400 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: a sore would go in and they would eat all 401 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: the nasties in there, particularly the bacteria. They would feast 402 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: off of it, and it would keep a sore clean. 403 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: But you know, in this case, this is not. 404 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 2: Just that's something that'd be kind of going like blood letting. 405 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: No, No, it's it's a step above blood letting leah 406 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: and leech's, you know, which is probably ultimately what killed 407 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,800 Speaker 1: George Washington. They I think they let blood on him 408 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: so many times. But maggots can have been proven to serve, 409 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 1: you know, to serve a therapeutic. But that's that's not 410 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, Dave. 411 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,959 Speaker 2: We're about live. She was alive in that one spot 412 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: and had maggots and had Now these conditions now that 413 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 2: you've explained them to me, from the bedswords to the 414 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: chronic bone infection, and now the maggots all say the 415 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: same thing. And and the fegal matter, the urine. They 416 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 2: all say that she was not being tended to, that 417 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 2: she was being fed but not bathed. When they found her, 418 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: she was partially clothed, so we know they weren't changing 419 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 2: her clothes because they would have had to move her 420 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: to do that. And I just keep thinking what you 421 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 2: just explained to me, Joe. I mean, bless her heart, 422 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: this thirty six year old woman would have had nothing 423 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: from her back down her life. 424 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: That's quite possible. And we have yet to see the 425 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,240 Speaker 1: images from her examination yet, but I can only imagine 426 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 1: that the extent of these bed sores would first off, 427 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: they would be communicating with one another. And what I 428 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: mean is that you can have one bet sword that 429 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: might start off, say, I don't know, maybe three inches 430 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: away from another. But as that erosion continues on a 431 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: layer of skin, you can have these betstrees that suddenly 432 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: become conjoined and now it kind of erupts and they're 433 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: filled with puss. You have puss, you have this exitday 434 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: that comes out of them. They're always tacky to the 435 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: feel and you many people with bed sores develop septicemia, 436 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: which is a system wide infection, and that's That's that's 437 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: the thing about this case. I can I don't know 438 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: what they're actually going to conclude at the end of 439 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: the day relative to her, but I begin to think 440 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: about this, and I think, you know, how in the 441 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: world did she did she avoid going completely septic in 442 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: like a matter of just a couple of years. You know, 443 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: you've got somebody that we believe have has has probably 444 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: enjoelled that sofa for over a decade. Dave, just let 445 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: that sink in just for a second. And how how 446 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: did she not develop septosemia? Then? And it's it's absolutely mate. 447 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: How did she? How did her kidneys not fail? Did 448 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: she not go into hypatic failure? Because you got all 449 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: kinds of things working here. You know, she's laying around 450 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: her own expelled waist. So you've got these these conditions 451 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: that are essentially non compatible with life, if you will. 452 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: And we haven't even touched on this idea about the 453 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 1: sofa being integrated into the body, but I know this, 454 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,240 Speaker 1: This poor young lady would have had a better shot 455 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: at life had they just driven up to an ambulance 456 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: route at a hospital somewhere, looked at the people on 457 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: the other side of the sliding glass doors and said 458 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: we don't want to do this anymore, and they left 459 00:29:42,760 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: her there. But that's not what happened, David. 460 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 2: I was. 461 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: I think the last toime I weighed ninety six pounds, 462 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: I was probably nine. I think that might have been 463 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think I might have been nine, you 464 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: know when I weighed that much. Yeah, I was a 465 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: big kid. I mean I was healthy, robust, still pretty 466 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: big man, you know. And but. 467 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 2: With in this case, the coroner's office said this, that's. 468 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: What she weighed lately. 469 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, at thirty six years old. Six yeah, yeah, and 470 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 2: she weighs ninety six pounds. But the corners, I I 471 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 2: was trying to ask you because I not that I'm 472 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 2: making light of it at all, because but I don't 473 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 2: know how tall she is or anything else. But ninety 474 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 2: six pounds is not what I would think of as 475 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 2: a starvation size. But there are ways that you can 476 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: be starved without being teeny, but being malnursed, not being 477 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 2: served the proper things. But odd that that would, even 478 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 2: with all the other things she has all together, with 479 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 2: everything else going on with her medically, weighing ninety six 480 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,479 Speaker 2: pounds surprised me, But then listing starvation as a contributing factor. 481 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 2: There was also one little note. She was found semi nude, 482 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 2: semi naked and sitting upright in a sunken crevice in 483 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 2: the sofa, that is the area between two cushions. But 484 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: as you and I were looking at these pictures, you 485 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: can see where she spent her time, and you can 486 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 2: see where the crevice is between the two and that. 487 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 2: But it was almost like it had shuffled, it had 488 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 2: moved where her body was, because it didn't move. She 489 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 2: was in the same position, sitting upright for however many years, 490 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 2: they think, possibly twelve years not moving, twelve years sitting 491 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 2: upright in the same spot. And all I could think 492 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: of was her back, her buttocks, yeah, all on the 493 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: back side, but her arms around the eye. 494 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: With with bed sores you mentioned this show, I wanted 495 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: to point that out. You've got the shoulders, you know who. 496 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: One of the worst features, uh, relative to relative to 497 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,719 Speaker 1: bed sores and the presentation are your shoulder blades. And 498 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: you can imagine why. I mean, you know, we talked about, 499 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, kind of the architecture of that. You know, 500 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,959 Speaker 1: we mentioned ribs, and think about the architecture of your 501 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: shoulder blade. If you're laying on that area. It's it's palpable. 502 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: I mean, you can put your hand on it. You know, 503 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: most of us can make out even you know, it's 504 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: kind of triangular in shape, and you can make out 505 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: the edges of it. It's really close to the surface. 506 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: And and then the spine as well. Those you know 507 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: that the all of the little features along the spine, 508 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: So any any of those bony what they refer to 509 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: as bony prominences. As a matter of fact, that folks, 510 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: if you'll take your thumb and go to your waistline 511 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: and you can feel your it's it's actually called your 512 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: iliac crest. It's it's kind of it's part of the pelvis, 513 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: all right, and they look like wings and you can 514 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: feel it. You know. Some people might call it their hip, 515 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: but it's not really their hip. It's the iliac crest. 516 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: The iliac crest right there. Also, that's a point where 517 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 1: you can develop bet sores. The coccacs, which is at 518 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: the base of the spine, which you know is essentially 519 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: our tailbone, that is really really close to the surface, 520 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: so it can you rode through there. I got and 521 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: here's another thing too, I don't want to You know, 522 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: I don't dwell on this too much, but one thing 523 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: that is amazing to me. Working in the Morgue for 524 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: as long as I did, I worked on a lot 525 00:33:55,320 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: of decomposing bodies. Dave, and flies were part of that environment. 526 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: Going out on cases were part of that environment. You know, 527 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: where I'm in a house, all my colleagues are in 528 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: the house, We've got flies coming off of the body. 529 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:13,839 Speaker 1: They're landing on us. It's part of what we do. 530 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 1: We accept it, all right, you go to the morgue, 531 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: it's the same thing. As a matter of fact, we 532 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: would hang up do you remember the old Gulf pestrips. 533 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: You know that we would have the sticky ones. And 534 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: you can still go into morgs and see these. They 535 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 1: hang them from the ceilings because you have so many 536 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: bodies that come in that have maggots, and there you 537 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 1: have associated flies that will come into body backs. And 538 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: so because of that you capture these flies, you know, 539 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: in these environments you're working in, particularly in the Morgue. 540 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,800 Speaker 1: But Dave, if if what they are saying is accurate 541 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: and she has in dwelling magots, the family would have 542 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: had flies everywhere. They would have been lighting on anybody 543 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: that came into that home. Just let that sink in 544 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: just for a moment. And I keep going back to 545 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: time here, this period of time that she was in 546 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: stasis on this sofa for all of these years. I 547 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 1: can't even begin to kind of do the arithmetic that 548 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: it would require to think about how many cycles life 549 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: cycles of maggots, how many generations You're talking hundreds upon 550 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: hundreds upon hundreds of generations of flies that may have 551 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: come through that residence. And I wonder, you know, did 552 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 1: they have those pest strips hanging from the ceiling in there? 553 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: Were they so aware of it that they got sick 554 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,480 Speaker 1: and tired of maggots or flies so they would put 555 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: the pest strips up and catch the flies to knock 556 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: it down. 557 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 2: Is it possible that you can become because you're in 558 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: it all the time, and because it grew over a period, 559 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 2: It didn't just start in one day and the smell 560 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,919 Speaker 2: and all it got you. Is it possible that over 561 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 2: a period of time, kind of like when you first 562 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 2: time I ever went to Charleston, South Carolina, as you 563 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 2: hit Summerville, which is a suburb, as you're coming into 564 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 2: I twenty six and you smell the wood that the 565 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 2: paper bills, and it's a very strong smell. And they 566 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 2: will tell you you won't smell it in a couple 567 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 2: of days, Yeah, and it really does. After about a week, 568 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 2: you don't even smell it anymore. Is it the same 569 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 2: way where if you're in this environment every day where 570 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 2: you just your senses ignore it. 571 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: I you know, I can't speak to these people. I 572 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: would think that if it becomes your norm perhaps, and 573 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: it's hard. It's hard when you begin to think about 574 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,800 Speaker 1: normalizing this, you know, because you look at this life 575 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: that as parents you have created, all right, or that 576 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: you've brought into being. And you've been with this child 577 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,920 Speaker 1: obviously since the beginning, and here she is. She's thirty 578 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 1: six years old, and she is she's been robbed of 579 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: her humanity at this point in time. You know, certainly 580 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,600 Speaker 1: there's it would seem that it's one of the most 581 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: undignified things if you're talking about respecting disrespecting a fellow human, 582 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: not even talking about we're not even ascending to the 583 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 1: level of parent now, we're just talking about just your 584 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 1: basic human needs. That's why I made the comment, you know, 585 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: at the end of our last break about you. You 586 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: would think that at some point in time you would 587 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: be moved by compassion and that you would Yeah, exactly. 588 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: And it sounds to me as if, my god, you 589 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,000 Speaker 1: think about how many people get disability that are across 590 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: this country right now, and some they say are not 591 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,439 Speaker 1: truly disabled. I think in this particular case, this young 592 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: lady would have been ruled to have been disabled was 593 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: she even on the rolls, because even with disabilities she 594 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: could get some kind of home care, She could get 595 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: something that would have made it less miserable. 596 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 2: And this is neglect in a way when you point 597 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 2: that out. But you know what the corner suggested. The 598 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 2: corner suggested that they didn't live inside that house. That 599 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: he said, there's no way. He actually said that he 600 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 2: does not believe. He believes the parents were not living 601 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 2: in the house because quote nobody could stand the stench. 602 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 2: And that might throw a monkey rnge into our idea 603 00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 2: that you could get used to it. Maybe you can't. 604 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 2: I don't know, but I do like this. Is that 605 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,880 Speaker 2: you were mentioning a minute ago about how the bedsorts 606 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 2: can all kind of move together, yes, and grow? Is 607 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 2: that that way? With other infection? She had COVID nineteen. 608 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 2: And in order to get COVID nineteen, I thought you 609 00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 2: kind of had to be out in kind cota with 610 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 2: other people. You know, that it wouldn't just breed inside 611 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,280 Speaker 2: of a home where you haven't moved in twelve years 612 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 2: from the place you're sitting. That seemed odd to me. 613 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 2: But maybe the parents. 614 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, the parents, you know, they've got to provide for 615 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: the rest of the household for themselves, so they're out 616 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 1: in public at some point in time. So anything that's 617 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: out there, you know, could potentially have made it in 618 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: visa VI them. And here's the other thing is that 619 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: COVID at its height was killing a lot of people 620 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:30,800 Speaker 1: that were infirmed. And the fact that she did contract 621 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 1: COVID is kind of interesting that it didn't compromise her 622 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 1: to the point of death. And you're talking about somebody. Look, 623 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: if anybody on their block had a weekend immune system, 624 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,440 Speaker 1: I think that she'd be number one in line, considering 625 00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: what she had been subjected to over all these many years. Dave, 626 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: I got to tell you, I'm look, I don't wish 627 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,319 Speaker 1: any ill will on anybody, but I think that in 628 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: a case this, this is something that the public needs 629 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: to be aware of. It's something that I think that 630 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 1: society should not be tolerant of on any level, and 631 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: it would seem to me that some type of message 632 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: should be sent. I'm hoping that in this poor woman's 633 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,880 Speaker 1: case that there has been a message sent. Can you 634 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: kind of fill me in on this. 635 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:28,359 Speaker 2: They actually agreed, they being the powers that be within 636 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 2: the prosecutor's office. Originally they were charged a second degree 637 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 2: murder and they were stayed for eighteen months saying we 638 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,279 Speaker 2: loved her, we did not kill her, it was not intentional. 639 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 2: They actually changed the charges to manslaughter, and they went 640 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 2: ahead and took a plead to a manslaughter charge. 641 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: On one hand, I think that a trial would have 642 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: been good because I want to try to understand, and 643 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,719 Speaker 1: I would hope that the public would want to try 644 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: to understand what she went through and how long this 645 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: went on, you know, till she finally succumbed, you know, 646 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: sitting in that filth, in her own filth, you know, 647 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: and had had no way of expressing herself. Dave, and 648 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: I think that's that's a real tragedy in all of this, 649 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: because we complain about all kinds of things day in 650 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,320 Speaker 1: and day out, I'm saying that in universal sense, not 651 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: you directly, Dave, but we all complain about things. But 652 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 1: can you imagine having some kind of physical discomfort, some 653 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,799 Speaker 1: type of malady that no matter what position you try 654 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: to put yourself in, on a surface that you're sitting in, 655 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: you can't get any comfort. You try to adjust, maybe 656 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,280 Speaker 1: maybe you've gotten too weak to adjust, but in your brain, 657 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: maybe your pain centers are screaming out and you can't 658 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: express that to anybody. There is no relief, and you're 659 00:41:55,239 --> 00:42:01,560 Speaker 1: just trapped. You're not just trapped in this else and 660 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: on the sofa and in this field that you're trapped 661 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:15,919 Speaker 1: in your mind. Hopefully this young woman is finally free 662 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: of pain. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is Body 663 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:22,319 Speaker 1: Bags