WEBVTT - A Small Step Towards Ending Hunger (Not Just Managing It) 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:08.480 Citizen Chef is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey everybody, 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.920 Tom Felicio here and welcome back to Citizen Chef. You know, 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:15.640 feeding people has always been my passion, and therefore I 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:18.200 have been an advocate for fighting for food and security. 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.040 And yes, people come to my restaurant and they spend 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:21.840 a lot of money to eat, but I'm talking about 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.800 fighting for people who are struggling to put food on 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:29.760 the table. Healthy food is a basic necessity for survival. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:33.680 It brings families together, it brings joy. You know, think 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.240 about when we celebrate holidays, and let's think about the 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.279 importance of just sitting around a table and sharing a 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:41.800 meal with your family. Every night. You get to on wine, 0:00:41.880 --> 0:00:44.040 you get to talk about the day. Well, what if 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.080 you didn't have food to put on that table. How 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.159 would you feel as a parent if all of a 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.239 sudden you found yourself out of work and you were 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.400 struggling to feed your family. You know, parents are out 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.200 there right now skipping meals so their kids could eat. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:04.880 So this is something that really I think is is 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.280 a basic necessity for so many people. Um and uh 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.759 and and people are struggling. So this is why I 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.720 was really excited to hear some truly historic news that 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:18.759 the Department of Agriculture has made the largest permanent increase 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:23.640 to the SNAP benefits since And if you listen to 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.760 our episode with Dr Kathleen American, you'll remember that SNAP 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.760 is the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program and it helps millions 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:32.120 Americans across the country get food on their tables. And 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.520 so what is really exciting is that we have reevaluated 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.720 the types of foods that can be included in the program. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.080 Americans now have, uh they can make healthier choices on 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.679 what they're feeding their family. Listen, this is it's it's 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.480 a huge change and and uh so I want to 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.000 turn to the experts to talk about this. So today 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:52.640 we're talking to SNAP expert Ellen Volinger. Ellen is the 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.440 legal director of frak Are, the Food Research Action Center, 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:00.360 and their state admission is to eradicate poverty related hunger 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.800 and under nutrition in the United States. And they do 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:08.200 that through research, advocacy, and by consulting with everyone who 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:12.200 actually creates policy, but also those people who are receiving 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.600 the benefits as well. They're talking to the people who 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:17.720 certainly need a place at the table. And Ellen herself 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:21.000 is responsible for directing fract's advocacy on behalf of SNAP, 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.280 So there is no one better to talk about how 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.919 these changes came to be and why are They're welcome 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:28.480 changes to the anti hunger advocates and so welcome to 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.600 the program. Ellen volunteer, Hello, Hey, how you doing okay? 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.839 Thanks so much for doing this and having me on 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.840 so Ellen listen. UM, I wanted to talk to you 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.959 because I guess what's happened recently is fairly historic. UM. 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:48.000 And UH for our our listeners, UM that don't know. UM, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.880 the SNAP program, Uh, the supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, which 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:54.840 I would actually wish they would get rid of the 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:58.800 supplemental and just turn into the NAP program, the Nutrition 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.280 Assistance program. Uh. Finally we were making some headways after 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.480 years and years of the benefits pretty much staying the 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.800 same for a long time. UM, we finally had some 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.840 big changes. And it's it's a technical change that I 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:15.520 really thought it would be interesting for people to understand 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:20.600 how we actually calculate SNAP benefits. And there's something called 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.280 the food plan, and there's there's three three pieces of 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:26.600 that plan. There's a thrifty, there's the low, and then 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:29.760 there's the jump right here now because I'm forgetting what 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:31.920 the third one is. But we made some change to 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:34.920 this plan, and that's actually putting more money into people's 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.400 pockets to purchase food. So can can you explain to 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.360 us what the the what really happened to the thrifty 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.800 Food Plan and where the changes are and what it's 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.440 gonna how it's gonna make a difference for so many 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.680 people who are struggling to put food on the table. Yeah, no, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:48.640 and Tom, thank you so much for having us. And 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.400 you certainly are a leader in the effort to end 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:55.600 hunger in American You were already aware even before COVID 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:00.000 nineteen how much hunger existed in the United States. Um. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.840 And one of the pieces of inadequacy of being able 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:08.360 to afford food and being hungry is that snap which 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:12.560 is the most fundamental of the federal government's anti hunger programs, 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:15.680 the Supplement of Nutrition Assistance program, as you said, it 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.400 used to be called food stands. It's the program that's 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.000 available to all kinds of of Americans and it's designed 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:27.400 to help them afford a basic diet. When it was designed, 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.960 the government picked one of its food plants. It has 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.800 little different grades of food plants and it picked the 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.440 most meager one called the Thrifty Food Plan. Just so 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.480 people know. So this food plan is used for various things. 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:43.239 I mean number one is used to calculate the amount 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.800 of alimony someone has to pay for child support. It's 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.560 also used how to calculate how many calories are are 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:54.440 service members need to know to survive, especially when they're fighting. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:56.120 So it's it's used for a lot of different things, 0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.440 not just food. Well, the different levels are that's acceptive 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:05.440 of food plan, but unfortunately for UM purposes of adequacy 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.479 of benefits for SNAP, the government has chosen for decades 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.400 now the very lowest wrung and it's that thrifty Food 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:17.320 Plan that's used only for SNAP. Really that UM you know, 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:19.760 it's only used for emergency food and SNAP. It's not 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.440 what's used these other needs. But it was still supposed 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:29.400 to provide lower income Americans with UM a food package 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.440 that they could afford based on SNAP beat with SNAP benefits. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.599 So when SNAP is calculated, the government looks to what 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:41.159 it costs to purchase the Thrifty Food Plan. It's a 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.679 it's a market basket. It's actually good government puts together 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.640 a set of different goods that are supposed to meet 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:52.120 americans dietary needs, they're supposed to be within a lower 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:57.279 range of cost, and that was done decades ago. Over 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:01.359 the years, as the government has change things to do 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.680 with the dietary guidelines, as Americans are shopping and preparing 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.520 food differently, even if they're not as good at preparing 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.600 it as you are, jub, people all have changed how 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.560 they're preparing food, and the time that they have to 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.480 do it is very different from what it was decades ago. 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:21.000 Especially with so many working families and um to two 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.320 parent working families, time constraint is a real problem. And 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.720 over the years, the Thrifty Food Plan was not really 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.760 adjusted fully to take into account all those realities. Instead, 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:38.479 people who were reviewing it to see whether there should 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.680 be changes to it would feel that they needed to 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.520 do it within the amount of money that was spent 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.040 on the on the then existing package, a little bit 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:52.320 of inflation adjustment, but largely just basically within working within 0:06:52.400 --> 0:06:55.960 those confines. And what is so a significant about what 0:06:56.120 --> 0:07:00.040 has happened with this USDA review. It was directed to 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.960 be done by Congress in in a bipartisan bill, but 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.000 it's been undertaken by the Biden Harris U s d A. 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.440 What's so historic about it is that for the first 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.360 time after this food plan was set up, they actually 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.640 asked the question, what would it take for Americans now 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.880 to be able to have a lower kind of um 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.800 food cost package that would be more meaningful when it 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.800 comes to healthier food options, things that reflect what we've 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:32.360 learned about changes in the dietary guidelines and what we've 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.560 learned about how people shop and prepare food, and then 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.520 answer the question, this is what it costs, as opposed 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.119 to starting out with, well, we've we've got this certain costs. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.360 Let's see what we do within it. And that is 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:48.119 a game changer. It's a fresh look and they should 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.520 be congratulated from doing it right. So let's clarify Pea 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.560 thles here. So one, uh, this was again mandated under 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.480 the last truck me if I'm wrong, I believe the 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.680 last Farm Bill, where changes could have been taken up 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.120 by the U. S d A, you know, alatly by 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.160 the U. S d A. And under Trump's administration, sunny 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.040 produces completely ignored. Well, we just chose not to address 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.520 at all. We don't know what they were doing behind 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.560 this well, of course, right, but but we have no 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.160 evidence that they were on this path or that they 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:22.080 were going to meet the deadline. Congress had told them 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.200 to get this done by two and so the Biden 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:28.800 administration is very much on time with this. It's an 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.120 overdoe when you think about the kind of reviews that 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:36.360 were really needed over decades. This is overdue in that sense, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.440 but it's right on time in terms of what Congress 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.160 told them to get done by two And wasn't that 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:49.160 bipartisan past um farm bill. So yes, it's um it's 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.440 very well needed. And I would say that you know, 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.400 they looked to scientific evidence when they made the change. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:56.400 That's what Congress asked them to do. They asked them 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.400 to do an evaluation. They looked at that. They also 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.280 to I think the researchers credits also looked to the 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:08.040 input of snap participants who frankly are as well um 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:13.280 situated to tell us all what constraints they're under in 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:15.880 trying to be able to obtain this diet that we 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.480 would want to make sure people have the opportunity to get. 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.400 So again, they they they've made up a change that's 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.920 a much more realistic mix of healthier options that can 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:30.120 be prepared by working families who may be short on time, 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.120 as we all are, right, And so I'll go back 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:35.640 to that time piece because and correct me if I'm wrong, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:37.960 but I believe that, and this is why the time 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.560 piece is so important. The assumption was that if you 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.600 were on food assistance, you weren't working. Therefore you had 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:48.080 thirteen hours a week to prepare food, where I think 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.199 the average household really only spends about seven and seven 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.040 and a half hours a week preparing food. But the 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.680 assumption was because you needed assistance, you weren't working, therefore 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.679 you had a lot more time, and therefore you can 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.160 buy things that weren't prepared already. Creates shortcuts and is 0:10:03.200 --> 0:10:07.760 that roughly yeah, yeah, I think you know absolutely. The 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.920 the the assumptions behind the original food plan really don't 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.800 reflect how Americans live today. For who the snap participant 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.120 is so many now and we know now the majority 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:21.920 is not recipients have at least one member of the 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:27.240 family work, if they're they're working, if they're working age, yes, yes, absolutely, 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:32.400 and and so yeah, very outdated assumptions. Assumptions about you know, 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:36.360 your transportation, your ability to buy in bulk, your ability 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:41.080 to store what facilities might have just very unrealistic in 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.960 terms of, um, where are we now what would a 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:48.160 modern look be? And so that's really what USDA tackled. 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:51.480 And again we we think that they you know, they 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.320 got it right. Yeah, and we know that you know, 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:58.000 for years, if you've heard the stories of you knew 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.560 that SNAP dollars weren't actually in use at the end 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.400 of the month. There were stories or people who would 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.040 line up the first day of the month and when 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.280 their benefits got replenished, on their on their on their car, 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:11.240 lining up at the grocery store the first month to 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.000 go out and buy food because there was just nothing 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:16.280 left in the refrigerator. And uh so, yeah, so we've 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.800 known for a long time that that there wasn't adequate dollars. 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.040 So let's let's get let's get to the dollars here 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.800 for a second, because I think there's also something that's 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.520 very misleading. So U a couple of things happened since 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:31.640 the pandemic uh UM. Snap was increased because of the 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.400 pandemic UM, but then this was an additional increase and 0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.680 so what what I know there's numbers out there that 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.559 sound like very big numbers in terms of the percentage 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:46.480 that was added to the SNAP program, and that percentage 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.960 was was that correct, So the the increase in the 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:56.320 value of the Thirsty Food Plan was about roughly that. 0:11:56.679 --> 0:12:00.880 But um, you know, I think the thing that throws 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:04.040 people off when they hear the percentages is that they're 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.640 thinking about a program um and they're thinking about what 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.720 the aggregate spending. It's They're often hearing about billions of dollars, 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.800 and I think for them to I think see it 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:20.040 in perspective before the pandemic, before there were these temporary boosts, 0:12:20.080 --> 0:12:23.120 and is one of those boosts. But there's even more 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.400 impactful boost that's called emergency allotments. It was done that 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:30.680 also will be ending at some point. Before those boosts, 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:36.800 SNAP benefits only averaged about four dollars a person a day. 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.560 That's that little more than that. That's about what it 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:44.160 was the mass about. Yeah, I mean, it's it's it's right. 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:48.760 So this change is going to make the benefits better. 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.240 It's a more you know, it's more in line with 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.120 what the Thrifty Food Plans should be, but it is 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.079 still not going to give SNAP households um a tremendous 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.840 increase because when those temporary boost expire, and some of 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.600 them are expiring very soon and others won't be too 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.600 far behind. Then when you compare the difference in step 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:15.120 benefits pre this scripty food plan change, you know, it's 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:20.200 very very very modest. It's going to get them, uh, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.240 somewhere close to, you know, a little more than five 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.160 dollars a day, I think around a person to day, 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.760 which and again that's with a decimal point between the 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.040 two and the nine. They're not a lot of zeros 0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:34.800 when you when you're looking at it from the perspective 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:38.680 of one snap household, they don't see all these zeros 0:13:38.800 --> 0:13:41.440 that show up. And so when you've got a very 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.400 low benefit and you make any kind of a meaningful increase, 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:48.800 it's gonna sound like a big percentage. And that's because 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.439 the reviewers who did reviews prior to this administration's evaluation, 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.160 we're playing within that same package size that they were 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.840 given and for decades never moved beyond that package size. 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.240 They never really adjusted. They just said, well, what can 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.200 we do within the constraints of kind of the existing 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.440 type of package and what that general cost is. The 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.439 buying administration did have a cost lens in the sense 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:20.360 that even this package looks at a set of foods 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.080 that are lower cost there, you know, but it's a 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.800 broader range and a much better mix of healthier options, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.200 and also one that does take into account the way 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.080 people shop and prepare and their times and strengths. Can 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.280 you walk us through with that basket? Looks like is 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.000 that's the other thing? I think there's a misconception. And 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:41.960 you know, again you see these stories on on Fox 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.720 about people buying lobster tails they're snapped dollars and things 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.720 like that. Yeah. No, um, you know, people people on 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.160 on a thrifty food plan plan, you know, should have 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.200 um access to a range of products. But with the 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.720 old plan some some of the way it worked out. Yes, 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.040 she was part of the old Thrifty Food Plan, but 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.000 it was something on the order of two ounces for 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.720 a household for a week or something. I mean, very 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.480 very little amounts on some of the things that you 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.160 would take for granted would be a piece of a diet. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.760 And of course, as people's and you mentioned this Toime, 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.920 as people had their benefits running out in a month, 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.120 they were turning to emergency food um, trying to do 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.040 other things to cope and often they were foregoing when 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.360 they had to stretch those dollars, particularly at the end 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.680 of the month. They're going with options that aren't the 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.800 optimum option, aren't the healthier part of the thrifty food plan. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.320 They're going where the calories are to fill the belly. 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.200 So we do know from the kind of evidence youth sided, 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:51.200 but also a report that was released this summer by 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.920 the administration that on the barriers to healthy eating for 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:59.480 people while they're on snap. The biggest barrier cost of food. 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.360 I mean, that is just um, you know, the biggie. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.480 And we know that when people have more opportunity to 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.320 make the choice that is maybe lean need or the 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:14.080 healthier proofs and vegetables, when it's a more affordable choice, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:16.840 that's an easier choice, that's more in reach. And this 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:20.080 goes in that direction, doesn't go far enough for people 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.000 to have everything they need, but it's a it's it's 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.800 such a welcome improvement and as I say, overdoing the 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:30.400 sense of what government should have done over decades. Yeah, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.400 it's interesting. I was I was reading about a program 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.680 in Boston that started during the pandemic where people are 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:39.080 actually we're getting direct payments. Uh, and of the money 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.680 they were given were spent on foods. Yeah. And you're 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:46.920 seeing that even now come in real time with with 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.280 one of the really good things that government's got going 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:52.840 on right now, and that is the child tax Credit 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.800 that's getting benefits out of the households. And the early 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.040 evidence that the Census Bureau found in terms of how 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.000 people are ending those benefits, spending them on food is 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.240 one of those big categories. Yeah. Right, And what was 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.440 the cutting childhood hunger? We cut it in half, correct, Yes, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.359 I mean that is when you look at um and 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:14.880 it's not just the child tax credit, but certainly that's 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.560 the big driver on that when you look at the 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.480 fact that there have been the boosts and snap benefits 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.840 that have been making it more more possible for people 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.000 to afford food during the pandemic. Again, these are separate 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.760 from the way the Thrifty Food Plan operates, but separate 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:34.359 boots that Congress enacted last year and then again this year. Uh, 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.000 those have contributed. And then of course, I know you've 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.160 been very following school meals and and and know quite 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:42.560 a bit about it based on your own personal history 0:17:42.960 --> 0:17:46.240 that school meals are really important and cutting childhood hunger. 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.800 And some of what government has done during this pandemic, 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.800 which is to create a program called Pandemic Electronic Benefit 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.399 Transfer EB that's the kind of credit card debit card 0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.880 technology that's used to deliver snap and if it's they've 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.560 been getting snapped like benefits to many many households to 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.679 help replace the value of the free school meals that 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.639 kids missed when there were school closures and disruptions at 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.880 at schools during COVID. So those combined are really helping, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.160 I mean right, so yeah, so let's just the listeners 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.800 could put that on perspective. It's about thirty million children 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.679 who used to school breakfasts and lunch program um, you know, 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.000 per day, and when schools were closed, that money had 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.280 to come from somewhere. Households didn't have it. They were 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:34.440 counting on these these these children receiving breakfast and lunch 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.199 at school. And so now all of a sudden, you know, 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:37.680 parents had these children at home and they had to 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.880 figure out a way to to stress their dollar even 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.360 further to to put more food on the table. Um. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:45.719 And we see the same thing happening when there's you know, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.520 whenever there's a snow day, I automatically think that we're 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.639 gonna have a problem here. In fact, when when I 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:54.440 you know, going back to March, when I realized that 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.440 schools were gonna be closed, one of the first person 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:00.640 I called was actually Ellen Teller, who works with you, uh, Fractics, says, 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.240 what are these kids are gonna do? And she said, 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.520 they'll they'll be an emergency feeding program, it will be 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.800 set up, it will happen, um. And so it gave 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.119 me some comfort to hear that. More of my conversation 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:22.800 with fract Legal director Ellen Voluner right after the break, well, 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.000 let's talk about you know, the money. Yes, there's additional money, 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.520 and that's great, but we're also looking at alone can 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.720 people are facing it's called, you know, a cliff or 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:33.560 you know, some people call it a hunger cliff. When 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.000 it really has to do with benefits that are going 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.200 to disappear once once they usually start moving out of SNAP, 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.960 if they if they receive a job and they're no 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:43.720 longer eligible to receive SNAP benefits. Um, everything is taken 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.240 away once and and uh but typically um, you know, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.600 they're still paying back bills, they may behind on rent 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.639 and things like that. But We're also facing a different 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.840 kind of cliff right now because somebody benefits, including unemployment, 0:19:55.880 --> 0:20:01.880 including the UM the extra additional money because of the SNAP, 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.200 it's going to go away. And so you want to 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:06.360 talk about the cliff effects a little bit. Yeah, Yeah, 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:11.160 we're very worried about it because these temporary boosts. There 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.080 are two types in SNAP. One is called emergency allotments, 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.520 and those have been very significant improvements in the size 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:22.960 of allotments. For households that were already at the maximum 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.880 benefit level since since April under the Biden administration, they've 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:31.160 been able to get nine dollars more on their monthly allotment. 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:35.080 But for households that were at the very lowest household 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.320 that pre pre COVID would be getting sixteen dollars one 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.640 six for the month, they've been able to get well 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:46.399 over two hundred dollars. And as soon as those emergency 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.240 allotments end, they will go right back down. Now, the 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:54.439 fifteen percent boost that you mentioned has been significant, but 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.879 that sunsets at the end of September. So although the 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.359 thrifty food Planet Smith is not related to that, the 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.560 fact that it will be in place is going to 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:10.240 help mitigate UM that particular cliff, but it it's not 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:14.000 going to mitigate whenever it is that these emergency allotments 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.000 go away. And as you mentioned SNAP, households and people 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:19.800 who are facing food and security that's not the only 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.280 thing that defines them, or that they face the loss 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:27.520 of unemployment insurance from the federal help. That is going 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.080 to be really bad news for this coming labor day. 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:35.600 And of course the rental assistance that's available UM is 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:37.760 going to go away, and it hasn't had as good 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:39.320 a take up, right. We haven't been able to get 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:44.720 that out to people sufficiently. And the moratorium on residential 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.560 evictions is only into early October. So these are real 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:51.800 pressures on families and we do we work closely with 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.760 a text company called Propel and they have an app 0:21:56.280 --> 0:22:00.360 that Snap and with customers women in Children program, they 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.400 use that app to check on their balances for their benefits, 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.800 to see what they've spent, what they have left. It 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:08.840 really helps them when they're going to a grocery store 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.560 and know what they've got in the in the thing easily. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:17.520 And because they have five million Snap subscribers, Propel has 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:21.119 been checking with a sample five thousand of those households 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.159 every month might be a different set of households, but 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.720 a sample of five thousand of its household to see 0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:30.680 what's going on with them, and many, even as they're 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.680 getting enhanced SNAP, are still struggling, turning to friends and 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:39.480 family for additional help. But they're also struggling mightily with 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:43.639 housing costs and debt and worried about being able to 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:47.000 you know, pay the debt down. So these are things 0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:51.400 that are combining. But just on the SNAP hunger cliffs, 0:22:52.040 --> 0:22:55.919 those are looming. And we've been advocating throughout the pandemic 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.479 to encourage the government to do what should have been 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.919 done with the last recession, which is due more on 0:23:03.040 --> 0:23:07.919 the stimulus side to get us out of this COVID 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.240