WEBVTT - Amanda Shires For Christmas 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.636 Pushkin. Hey there, it's justin Richmond. Today we have a 0:00:22.676 --> 0:00:27.556 special Broken Record Holiday episode with Nashville singer songwriter Amanda Shires. 0:00:27.996 --> 0:00:31.076 We're gonna start things off with an exclusive acoustic performance 0:00:31.156 --> 0:00:33.996 of her new song home to Me, from the album 0:00:34.036 --> 0:00:40.196 for Christmas. You said there's a song the runway, I 0:00:40.676 --> 0:00:49.236 song the wings. I saved everywhere and nothing will bring 0:00:52.116 --> 0:01:10.716 you to me, to me, to me, adol wand it's 0:01:10.796 --> 0:01:17.836 new cold to walk. I keep looking for you, but 0:01:18.076 --> 0:01:29.436 I'm disfrosted. You should come home to me. Whoa to me? 0:01:34.236 --> 0:01:54.276 To me? Please come on, come on. I'm tired of 0:01:54.316 --> 0:02:01.436 the moon and keep in mind company. I'm tired of 0:02:01.836 --> 0:02:09.476 the dark and a night full of brittle stars. Should 0:02:09.516 --> 0:02:20.956 come home to me? Hoh to me, Ho to me, 0:02:27.116 --> 0:02:44.436 he please come home, come home. You wonder w gueed, 0:02:45.796 --> 0:02:52.076 I wonder what you see. I wonder what you're thinking, 0:02:53.196 --> 0:03:01.076 and if you'll ever be come in home to me, 0:03:02.676 --> 0:03:17.756 Home to me, Ho to me, come in home to me, 0:03:19.316 --> 0:03:46.716 Ho to me, to please come home come home. That 0:03:46.836 --> 0:03:50.356 was Amanda Shires singing home to Me. Shire's new holiday 0:03:50.356 --> 0:03:53.316 album for Christmas Isn't meant to make you feel merry 0:03:53.356 --> 0:03:57.436 and bright Instead, It's an acknowledgment of the complicated feelings 0:03:57.436 --> 0:04:01.676 that a lot of us have around the holidays, like disappointment, longing, 0:04:02.156 --> 0:04:05.276 and maybe even a little bit of lust. In addition 0:04:05.316 --> 0:04:08.476 to her solo career, Amanda Shire's plays fiddle and sings 0:04:08.476 --> 0:04:11.556 in her husband Jason Isabel's band, the four hundred Unit. 0:04:12.436 --> 0:04:15.436 She's also a founding member of the female country supergroup 0:04:15.636 --> 0:04:18.756 The High Woman with Brandy Carlisle. But wait before she 0:04:18.836 --> 0:04:21.196 hit a big and Nashville. With all of that, Shires 0:04:21.196 --> 0:04:24.956 played fiddle with the Texas Playboys, the legendary Western swing 0:04:24.996 --> 0:04:27.556 band started by Bob Wills that she joined when she 0:04:27.596 --> 0:04:31.556 was just twelve years old. On today's episode, Bruce Headlam 0:04:31.636 --> 0:04:34.276 talks to Amanda Shires about what inspired her to write 0:04:34.316 --> 0:04:38.436 a non traditional Christmas album. Shires also explains how finding 0:04:38.476 --> 0:04:42.276 out that her grandfather served decades in Alcatraz raised a 0:04:42.356 --> 0:04:45.876 ton of questions about her family's history, and she recalls 0:04:45.876 --> 0:04:48.956 what happened the time she discovered Jason Isabel ripped off 0:04:49.036 --> 0:04:55.716 one of her lyrics. This is broken record liner notes 0:04:55.756 --> 0:05:03.956 for the digital age. I'm justin Richmondon. Here's Bruce Headlam 0:05:04.156 --> 0:05:07.676 with Amanda Shires. First of all Nanda Shires. Thank you 0:05:07.716 --> 0:05:10.756 so much for doing this, for having me. People who 0:05:10.796 --> 0:05:14.956 know your music, which is moody and very evocative, might 0:05:14.996 --> 0:05:17.076 be surprised that you had a Christmas album out. I 0:05:17.156 --> 0:05:19.396 was surprised you had a Christmas album out. So tell 0:05:19.436 --> 0:05:22.676 me what the thinking was going into this. I'm surprised 0:05:22.716 --> 0:05:25.036 to have a Christmas record. Out of all the things 0:05:25.076 --> 0:05:27.276 I had never thought I would do, it was a 0:05:27.356 --> 0:05:31.476 Christmas record. But I think the catalyst for it all 0:05:31.636 --> 0:05:34.916 was just going into this year knowing that Christmas is 0:05:34.956 --> 0:05:38.316 going to probably resume to some sort of sense of 0:05:38.436 --> 0:05:42.716 normalcy as opposed to last year. Last year, I was 0:05:42.756 --> 0:05:45.236 really happy not hearing all the Christmas jams and going 0:05:45.276 --> 0:05:47.996 out shopping and all that. You know. That's not to 0:05:48.036 --> 0:05:51.076 say I didn't miss a lot of stuff about normal holidays. 0:05:51.116 --> 0:05:53.796 So that was what started at all, as like that 0:05:53.796 --> 0:05:55.596 that might be a good song idea in there, and 0:05:55.756 --> 0:05:58.396 I started writing one song, and then I wrote ten, 0:05:58.516 --> 0:06:01.076 and then I covered one. Now, when you were growing up, 0:06:01.356 --> 0:06:04.036 I think most people had like a favorite holiday album. 0:06:04.116 --> 0:06:05.916 Did you have a holiday album at home that you 0:06:05.916 --> 0:06:08.476 were thinking of when you did this? I really liked that. 0:06:08.596 --> 0:06:12.716 Vince Giraldi I really liked that one in Bura Lives, 0:06:12.796 --> 0:06:15.156 you know, and my mom listened to a lot of 0:06:15.516 --> 0:06:18.956 like Pavarotti and what are those folks names? Those Irish 0:06:18.956 --> 0:06:23.876 folks that sing Christmas songs? They're like operatic, Yes that 0:06:24.316 --> 0:06:28.516 you did it the chieftains, Yes, because she's you know, 0:06:28.716 --> 0:06:32.236 Irish and she was Irish. Your mom. Well, we just 0:06:32.316 --> 0:06:35.316 found out actually that we don't know what we are 0:06:35.356 --> 0:06:38.516 because my granddad turns out, was in Alcatraz and nobody 0:06:38.596 --> 0:06:41.276 knew it till after he died, so we don't really 0:06:41.276 --> 0:06:42.996 know where he was from. In the end, he was 0:06:43.036 --> 0:06:46.196 incarcerated in Alcatraz, yeah, for twenty five years, one of 0:06:46.196 --> 0:06:48.316 the first two hundred. But when he got out, this 0:06:48.476 --> 0:06:51.956 when he started a family with my grandmother. But nobody 0:06:52.076 --> 0:06:55.036 knew any of this, this stuff about Alcatraz and all 0:06:55.116 --> 0:06:58.836 this until our merchandise guy gave me a family tree, 0:06:59.596 --> 0:07:03.796 like a complete one because his uncle is what are 0:07:03.796 --> 0:07:06.716 those genealogists types, And I was looking through it and 0:07:06.756 --> 0:07:08.396 I was like, that can't be real. Is that real? 0:07:08.436 --> 0:07:11.876 And then we hired a private investigator and it turns 0:07:11.876 --> 0:07:14.476 out it's true. That's amazing. Can you tell us what 0:07:14.556 --> 0:07:17.796 he was in for Yeah, he was a young man 0:07:18.316 --> 0:07:23.236 that was a career criminal, car thiefs, and you know 0:07:23.316 --> 0:07:26.356 how the money used to be in the post offices. Yeah, 0:07:26.996 --> 0:07:29.876 so he held up a post office and he took 0:07:29.996 --> 0:07:37.476 the postmaster's child and why hostage, and nothing happened to 0:07:37.516 --> 0:07:40.476 them but except for obviously some kind of trauma. But yeah, 0:07:40.516 --> 0:07:44.116 when he got caught. After that, he went to Alcatraz. 0:07:44.876 --> 0:07:47.396 Did you know your grandfather when I was young. I 0:07:47.436 --> 0:07:49.796 did for a little while, and he passed away. He 0:07:49.596 --> 0:07:52.636 was he was quite old at that point. But yeah, 0:07:52.676 --> 0:07:54.996 I think that's gonna shed some light on a lot 0:07:54.996 --> 0:07:59.196 of different things in my life. Probably well when you 0:07:59.276 --> 0:08:03.836 do your Christmas and Alcatraz album exactly, So there's elements 0:08:03.876 --> 0:08:06.996 to that in my Christmas records. You know, people go 0:08:07.036 --> 0:08:10.116 to prison. You know John Prine had a Christmas in prison, 0:08:10.276 --> 0:08:13.436 that's right. Yeah, so you're gonna play some songs for us, 0:08:13.476 --> 0:08:16.476 So tell me first about Home to Me. Home to 0:08:16.596 --> 0:08:20.876 Me captures a feeling of wishing folks were around that 0:08:21.316 --> 0:08:24.956 aren't well at Christmas time or any other time, and 0:08:25.156 --> 0:08:27.236 I think that that's feelings we all have around the 0:08:27.236 --> 0:08:31.116 holiday season. In any season, it's kind of a desperate 0:08:31.636 --> 0:08:36.196 plea for reconciliation. I guess was that your feeling last 0:08:36.276 --> 0:08:40.396 year with Christmas when you were isolated. I feel that 0:08:40.436 --> 0:08:43.516 way about different people in it that come in and 0:08:43.516 --> 0:08:45.876 out of my life, and then different family members. And 0:08:46.356 --> 0:08:48.156 I kind of wrote it in a way where I 0:08:48.196 --> 0:08:52.716 was trying to apply it to different types of relationships 0:08:52.716 --> 0:08:55.676 that I've had, but mostly it's like a love relationship. 0:08:56.036 --> 0:08:57.956 When I think about it, pretty hard, I just like 0:08:58.036 --> 0:09:01.276 to mask all my true feelings with you know, other feelings. 0:09:02.156 --> 0:09:05.236 Feelings are complicated because to me, I thought it was 0:09:05.236 --> 0:09:08.516 a romantic song or a song about a romantic relationship, 0:09:08.556 --> 0:09:11.476 but really you were talking about something else. I'm talking 0:09:11.516 --> 0:09:14.316 about that. But I don't want the folks that feel 0:09:14.356 --> 0:09:16.756 moved by the song and wish that it was their 0:09:16.796 --> 0:09:19.516 own father or somebody to feel way laid in the 0:09:19.556 --> 0:09:22.796 outcome of finding out that it is like a wanting 0:09:22.956 --> 0:09:26.236 a love relationship. But I guess I should trust my audience. 0:09:26.756 --> 0:09:30.996 It reminded me this song that holiday songs can be 0:09:31.156 --> 0:09:34.756 actually the saddest songs. It seemed to me the flip 0:09:34.796 --> 0:09:38.356 side of that old song I'll be Home for Christmas right, 0:09:38.596 --> 0:09:40.636 which was a big wartime song. This seemed like from 0:09:40.676 --> 0:09:43.716 the other end, like come home. It is that for sure. 0:09:43.756 --> 0:09:45.996 I mean, I'll just start being honest about it. Who cares. 0:09:46.036 --> 0:09:49.276 It's like, you know, you want somebody in your life 0:09:49.396 --> 0:09:52.796 and it's just not going right, and it sucks worse 0:09:52.796 --> 0:09:57.876 around Christmas. Yeah, things suck words around Christmas. Yeah, let's 0:09:57.956 --> 0:10:00.476 go back a bit. You grew up in Texas and 0:10:00.556 --> 0:10:02.036 you grew up Is it true you grew up near 0:10:02.236 --> 0:10:06.556 Mineral Wells. I was born in Mineral Wells, population eight 0:10:06.876 --> 0:10:10.156 and my dad and my gran parents and stuff still 0:10:10.156 --> 0:10:12.676 live out there. And then when my dad and mom 0:10:12.716 --> 0:10:15.996 split up, I lived with my mom in Kansas City 0:10:16.036 --> 0:10:18.556 and then love it because where she finally settled down. 0:10:18.876 --> 0:10:20.996 I don't know Texas very well. I've been there a 0:10:21.036 --> 0:10:24.036 few times. I only knew Mineral Wells from the Tom 0:10:24.076 --> 0:10:26.676 Russell song. I didn't know it was a real place. 0:10:26.996 --> 0:10:29.316 It's a real place. I have a song called Mineral 0:10:29.356 --> 0:10:33.836 Wells too. Okay, this is embarrassing because I totally missed that. Listen. 0:10:33.916 --> 0:10:35.516 I have a little bit embarrassed that I tried to 0:10:35.556 --> 0:10:37.996 lie off my feelings on a Christmas song a minute ago. 0:10:38.076 --> 0:10:42.116 So even well, we're gonna get deeper into your feelings. 0:10:42.116 --> 0:10:44.716 Don't worry. Oh good, okay. I have to ask you 0:10:44.796 --> 0:10:47.116 because a lot of people compare your voice to Dolly 0:10:47.156 --> 0:10:50.236 Parton's voice, and that's of course a compliment. When did 0:10:50.236 --> 0:10:54.636 you first meet Dolly Parton? I met her at OURCA 0:10:54.756 --> 0:11:00.036 studio A for rehearsals for the Highwomen Newport Show. Now 0:11:00.116 --> 0:11:03.196 what was that like? I mean, I asked your assistant 0:11:03.236 --> 0:11:06.116 the day before, I said, what do you think Dolly 0:11:06.156 --> 0:11:08.556 Parton would like me to wear? Because I really want 0:11:08.556 --> 0:11:12.716 to make it good depression. She said probably leather and lace, 0:11:13.316 --> 0:11:14.836 and so at home and the next stay I put 0:11:14.836 --> 0:11:17.076 on leather and lace, and sure enough it worked. I waited. 0:11:17.116 --> 0:11:19.916 I got there early, and she came in and we 0:11:20.036 --> 0:11:21.916 talked about our leather and lace a lot, and it 0:11:21.956 --> 0:11:25.636 was magical and terrifying. I mean, watching her work is 0:11:26.516 --> 0:11:30.116 an incredible thing. We'll be right back with more from 0:11:30.116 --> 0:11:36.876 Amanda Shires. After a quick break. We're back with Bruce 0:11:36.956 --> 0:11:41.396 Hudlam and Amanda Shires. So was there music in your 0:11:41.436 --> 0:11:43.876 family growing up? Was there always music around the house. 0:11:44.196 --> 0:11:47.156 There was music in my mom's house and then at 0:11:47.196 --> 0:11:51.476 my granddad's and dads. They do wholesale greenhouse stuff. Where 0:11:51.476 --> 0:11:53.916 you grow plants and stuff for your nurseries. So there 0:11:53.956 --> 0:11:56.676 was music playing on the radio and stuff there, and 0:11:56.716 --> 0:11:58.916 then in the pecan orchards, it was just turning the 0:11:58.996 --> 0:12:01.116 tractor radio as loud as you could get it. But 0:12:02.396 --> 0:12:06.436 my grandfather that I was very close to Garland, he 0:12:06.796 --> 0:12:11.156 wasn't of the generation, and I don't think they thought 0:12:11.196 --> 0:12:13.476 that playing music was going to get you anywhere because 0:12:13.476 --> 0:12:15.276 he had a guitar, but it was just in his closet. 0:12:15.876 --> 0:12:18.956 And then you started with violin. Is that what's that 0:12:19.076 --> 0:12:22.556 your first? Yeah, violin? I got that violin and I 0:12:22.596 --> 0:12:26.636 started playing in school. And then I met Frankie McCord 0:12:26.796 --> 0:12:30.516 from the Texas Playboys and started to learning my ear 0:12:30.596 --> 0:12:33.956 from him on his porch and was going to quit violin, 0:12:34.116 --> 0:12:36.436 and then my mom said, how about you do violin 0:12:36.796 --> 0:12:41.036 and we could parallel that with the fiddle, And I said, 0:12:41.116 --> 0:12:43.436 that sounds like a sweet deal. What was it like 0:12:43.516 --> 0:12:46.036 to sit on his porch and learn those old Texas 0:12:46.036 --> 0:12:49.756 Playboy songs? Because that's some that's very high end fiddling. 0:12:49.796 --> 0:12:53.476 That's a lot of jazz, all that Western swing stuff 0:12:53.556 --> 0:12:57.036 is really it's pretty accomplished. I was what they call 0:12:57.316 --> 0:12:59.996 ate up with it. It was my joy not just 0:13:00.036 --> 0:13:02.116 to hang out with him and listen to him talk 0:13:02.156 --> 0:13:06.556 and sing, but to learn and then even go deeper 0:13:06.676 --> 0:13:09.796 like he learned fro him the first recorded fiddler Robertson, 0:13:10.396 --> 0:13:12.996 and learned songs that predate the Will's Band and stuff 0:13:13.036 --> 0:13:14.476 like that. I don't know if there's a lot of 0:13:14.516 --> 0:13:17.276 audio of them, but I've got tapes and CDs and 0:13:17.356 --> 0:13:22.156 stuff full of the stuff, and I just somehow I 0:13:22.196 --> 0:13:24.236 don't know why. Well, I do know why. I've always 0:13:24.236 --> 0:13:27.636 been good at making friends with old folks, and I 0:13:27.676 --> 0:13:31.196 really prefer it because they they're decisive and they're setting 0:13:31.196 --> 0:13:35.356 their ways and direct. You know. It's so I do 0:13:35.476 --> 0:13:39.236 well in that situation. And then the music, it just 0:13:39.276 --> 0:13:41.796 spoke to me. So I did that. And you know, 0:13:41.996 --> 0:13:45.596 instrumental music is the way I used to express myself 0:13:45.836 --> 0:13:48.476 back then, because I didn't really have a vocabulary for 0:13:48.836 --> 0:13:51.676 expression as a ten or twelve year old with very 0:13:51.676 --> 0:13:54.276 little frontal lobe development. Do you remember the first couple 0:13:54.276 --> 0:13:56.796 of songs you learned. The first Bob Wills song I 0:13:56.796 --> 0:14:00.196 ever learned was Spanish two step, and that is the 0:14:00.276 --> 0:14:02.076 day I was told my mom I was going to 0:14:02.156 --> 0:14:03.996 quit playing the violin. She's like, we're going to just 0:14:04.156 --> 0:14:07.716 do both. And then you joined the Texas Playboys for 0:14:07.756 --> 0:14:10.796 a while. How old were you? Twelve? I would go 0:14:10.876 --> 0:14:14.596 in and out in between school and when they needed me. 0:14:14.676 --> 0:14:17.516 You know, they didn't play a whole whole lot, but 0:14:18.036 --> 0:14:20.796 it was enough where I felt like a member of 0:14:20.836 --> 0:14:23.956 a band, and we had scheduling and logistics and stuff. 0:14:24.396 --> 0:14:26.756 It wasn't like when you think of touring artists now, 0:14:27.396 --> 0:14:31.156 but a lot of that was they needed somebody to 0:14:31.196 --> 0:14:33.676 play that low third part and I was willing to 0:14:33.716 --> 0:14:36.876 do it. And I don't think I really had an 0:14:36.876 --> 0:14:38.916 ego about any of the music or anything. I was 0:14:38.916 --> 0:14:40.756 just happy to be there. My stuff worked and I 0:14:40.796 --> 0:14:44.076 showed up on time and we all got along well. 0:14:44.156 --> 0:14:47.156 And eventually they started teaching me how to improvise, and 0:14:47.236 --> 0:14:49.476 that was a whole new bag of worms. How did 0:14:49.476 --> 0:14:51.836 they teach you that? In my mind, it's like throw 0:14:51.876 --> 0:14:54.716 your kid into the swimming pool. They'll eventually swim. They'd 0:14:54.716 --> 0:14:57.276 take their solos, you know, all night long, and they're like, 0:14:57.316 --> 0:14:59.036 at some point we're going to point out your're gonna 0:14:59.076 --> 0:15:02.396 do your solo. And I'm thinking, okay, well, this could 0:15:02.396 --> 0:15:04.196 go a lot of different ways. But they're my friends. 0:15:04.276 --> 0:15:07.836 They'll catch me if I fall, and I did. I fell, 0:15:07.876 --> 0:15:10.036 and I failed a whole whole lot. But they kept 0:15:10.116 --> 0:15:12.636 making me do it, not making me giving me the 0:15:12.716 --> 0:15:14.996 chance to do it. Like we play a song like 0:15:15.076 --> 0:15:18.796 old fashioned love, you know, some easy, easy changes and 0:15:19.916 --> 0:15:22.076 all right, a mandature turn and I'd have to go 0:15:22.196 --> 0:15:25.036 step up like I was taking a major solo. Then 0:15:25.076 --> 0:15:27.276 you learned really quickly that way, you know, were you 0:15:27.316 --> 0:15:30.836 listening to records as well of violin players to try 0:15:30.876 --> 0:15:34.316 and get ideas. I didn't think about getting ideas from 0:15:34.356 --> 0:15:40.316 anything as far as improvisation until later, because I didn't 0:15:40.356 --> 0:15:42.996 know that that was a way to do it. But 0:15:43.276 --> 0:15:46.996 during that time I was in order to go to school, 0:15:47.116 --> 0:15:49.996 high school and junior high and all that and be 0:15:50.196 --> 0:15:53.196 part of the kid culture I was in. I had 0:15:53.236 --> 0:15:56.796 to also maintain what was on the pop radio, rap radio, 0:15:57.636 --> 0:16:00.956 you know, the Tejato stations. But at home it was 0:16:00.996 --> 0:16:05.396 strictly Bob Will's Tiffany transcriptions. That I listened to a 0:16:05.436 --> 0:16:10.316 lot of the individual Texas Playboys is fiddle in records, 0:16:10.436 --> 0:16:13.396 and then my favorite was Louie Tierney who played with 0:16:13.436 --> 0:16:16.276 them a lot. So I'd go listen to that song 0:16:16.436 --> 0:16:18.716 just to hear that part again, and I liked all 0:16:18.756 --> 0:16:23.236 of them. And you're a very gritty violin player. It's sharp, 0:16:23.316 --> 0:16:25.476 You've got a lot of bite to when you're playing. 0:16:25.556 --> 0:16:28.916 Like I compare you to somebody like Alison Crows, who's 0:16:28.956 --> 0:16:31.476 a very famous fiddler, but she's got a much sweeter sound. 0:16:31.556 --> 0:16:33.636 You like that really is that kind of a Texas sound, 0:16:33.636 --> 0:16:38.076 that harder sound. I think that's a sound that I've 0:16:38.196 --> 0:16:41.356 kind of developed from listening to rock and roll in 0:16:41.436 --> 0:16:44.876 fighting with guitars, and it's also got a lot of 0:16:45.476 --> 0:16:48.436 what I have, which is an attitude. I also think 0:16:48.436 --> 0:16:50.796 that you can do a lot with the texture of sounds, 0:16:50.876 --> 0:16:53.396 because sometimes I do think it's appropriate to make your 0:16:53.476 --> 0:16:59.436 violin whistle or go harmonic scrapy for whatever effect you're 0:16:59.436 --> 0:17:03.236 trying to achieve. And then depending on who's producing those 0:17:03.236 --> 0:17:05.796 types of things can be you know, affected in a 0:17:05.796 --> 0:17:09.236 way that changes a complete landscape of a song. Sometimes, 0:17:09.556 --> 0:17:12.876 like in that song Adjacent's if We're Vampires, there's some 0:17:12.956 --> 0:17:16.036 of that going on. And then Traveling Alone was kind 0:17:16.036 --> 0:17:18.196 of when I started playing with that idea and when 0:17:18.196 --> 0:17:21.796 did the songwriting start? Because of the playboys, you were 0:17:21.796 --> 0:17:23.796 on a bunch of albums. You were fiddling for a 0:17:23.796 --> 0:17:27.076 lot of people. You're sort of a side player. When 0:17:27.076 --> 0:17:31.036 did you start songwriting? I started, you know, I have 0:17:31.036 --> 0:17:34.596 a little goofy poetry. But that would be after I 0:17:34.716 --> 0:17:38.156 sang for the first time lead song. The first time 0:17:38.196 --> 0:17:40.716 I sang a lead on a song was I had 0:17:40.716 --> 0:17:43.476 to hold Leon Rausch of the Texas Playboy's hand to 0:17:43.596 --> 0:17:47.436 sing that song. That sure would go good. That I 0:17:47.556 --> 0:17:49.676 have pictures and we're just holding hands. I was so scared. 0:17:50.276 --> 0:17:52.916 But then I started singing, and then started doing harmony 0:17:52.956 --> 0:17:56.556 and trying to, you know, be available when somebody might 0:17:56.596 --> 0:18:00.356 want harmony. Who were singing, you know, just expands your 0:18:01.356 --> 0:18:04.596 work a little bit more, I guess. And I was playing. 0:18:04.596 --> 0:18:08.556 I was playing fiddle playing with everybody singing. And I decided, 0:18:08.636 --> 0:18:11.756 you know what would supplement my own income. I'm gonna 0:18:11.756 --> 0:18:13.876 copy the Texas Playboys and I'm gonna make a little 0:18:13.876 --> 0:18:16.196 fiddle in record. And so I made a little fiddle 0:18:16.236 --> 0:18:18.796 in record, not an artist record. I just wanted to 0:18:18.836 --> 0:18:20.916 set up on the stage and get a couple of 0:18:20.916 --> 0:18:24.316 ten or fifteen dollars here and there got about nine 0:18:24.636 --> 0:18:27.356 eight or nine fiddle tunes in and I thought people 0:18:27.436 --> 0:18:30.556 might want to know like that I could sing in 0:18:30.596 --> 0:18:32.596 case theyver want me to sing with them too. You know, 0:18:33.276 --> 0:18:36.396 it's all very entrepreneurial in a way. Were you touring 0:18:36.396 --> 0:18:38.756 in Texas at this time or were you up in Nashville, 0:18:38.876 --> 0:18:42.476 Texas still, because I did just basically all my pre 0:18:42.676 --> 0:18:46.036 artist career was in Texas. So I thought, well, I'm 0:18:46.036 --> 0:18:47.676 gonna have to sing a song so people know I 0:18:47.716 --> 0:18:50.556 could sing harmony and stuff. And I started thinking about 0:18:50.596 --> 0:18:53.076 what song I was singing. Then I realized you had 0:18:53.076 --> 0:18:57.876 to pay royalties. And then I thought, well, self, what 0:18:57.916 --> 0:19:00.716 are we going to do? And so I've made up 0:19:00.756 --> 0:19:04.356 two songs and I put them on there. Well, turns 0:19:04.356 --> 0:19:07.196 out that record was done, and I found myself on 0:19:07.236 --> 0:19:10.916 the road with Billy Joe Shaver, and one night I decided, 0:19:10.956 --> 0:19:12.876 you know, there's enough room on that table. I'm gonna 0:19:12.876 --> 0:19:15.436 set my CDs right there. That's what I'm gonna do. 0:19:15.516 --> 0:19:17.276 And I set my CDs right there. I didn't ask 0:19:17.316 --> 0:19:22.076 anybody didn't know you had to ask. And after the show, 0:19:22.356 --> 0:19:25.276 he was signing some CDs and he said, is that 0:19:25.396 --> 0:19:28.476 your record sitting up there with mind? And I said, yep, 0:19:28.876 --> 0:19:30.636 and he said, I guess we'll have to listen to 0:19:30.676 --> 0:19:32.636 that tomorrow. Huh. And I said, oh, you don't have 0:19:32.676 --> 0:19:33.756 to listen to it. You could just have it and 0:19:33.756 --> 0:19:35.156 listen to it on your own time. He's like, Nope, 0:19:35.156 --> 0:19:37.076 we're gonna have to listen to it, and so he 0:19:37.156 --> 0:19:41.076 put it on in the car and then we're listening 0:19:41.156 --> 0:19:44.756 and there's no where. He's not saying anything, just got 0:19:44.756 --> 0:19:47.916 his radars for the cops, you know, driving real fast. 0:19:47.956 --> 0:19:49.916 And I'm worried. I'm like, WHOA, what have I done? 0:19:50.396 --> 0:19:52.236 And he heard one of the songs on there, and 0:19:52.276 --> 0:19:54.036 he said, you know what you need to do. You 0:19:54.116 --> 0:19:57.516 need to move to Nashville and become a songwriter. There's 0:19:57.596 --> 0:20:01.156 no loyalty in the side person world. And I thought 0:20:01.196 --> 0:20:03.116 I was being fired, like it was a polite way 0:20:03.116 --> 0:20:07.356 to fire me. So I said, no, Billy Joe, I 0:20:07.396 --> 0:20:09.676 love my job. I don't mind not settled the CDs 0:20:09.716 --> 0:20:11.556 if you don't want me to, I don't. I really 0:20:11.636 --> 0:20:13.756 I don't want to. I really love playing with you. 0:20:14.156 --> 0:20:17.716 I feel like I'm learning a lot. And he said, no, 0:20:17.796 --> 0:20:19.716 but you should. You could be a songwriter. If you 0:20:19.756 --> 0:20:21.476 want to go be a songwriter, you should be a songwriter, 0:20:21.516 --> 0:20:22.676 and I was like, I don't know, Billy Joe, I 0:20:22.756 --> 0:20:25.236 really like playing with you. And then a year later 0:20:25.276 --> 0:20:27.596 I told Billy Joe Shaver I was moving to Nashville 0:20:27.676 --> 0:20:32.036 to pursue my dreams of being a waitress. And then 0:20:32.076 --> 0:20:36.276 I started over and here we sit. Was there a 0:20:36.316 --> 0:20:39.076 song you heard? Was there something that inspired you that 0:20:39.116 --> 0:20:41.316 made you think I can do this? Who were your 0:20:41.356 --> 0:20:44.956 inspirations back then? I always heard Billy Joe Shaver and thought, 0:20:45.036 --> 0:20:47.596 I wonder if I could do that one day, and 0:20:48.556 --> 0:20:52.196 just the way he captured exactly what he was feeling 0:20:52.836 --> 0:20:55.036 in that way, and then I did I realize that, no, 0:20:55.196 --> 0:20:56.836 I can't. I have to do the ones that come 0:20:56.916 --> 0:20:59.156 from me. But the other people I were listening to 0:20:59.396 --> 0:21:03.836 were everybody from Cindy Walker all of her songs from 0:21:03.836 --> 0:21:06.916 the Playboys, I loved that, like that song you Don't 0:21:06.956 --> 0:21:09.916 Know Me, and then then of course all of the 0:21:10.276 --> 0:21:14.076 all of the Whale and Jennings and Dolly Parton I 0:21:14.116 --> 0:21:19.356 listened to, and I listened to acts like Jagged Edge 0:21:19.396 --> 0:21:24.196 and Destiny's Child and everything Elliott Smith and I had. 0:21:24.556 --> 0:21:26.436 Then I started working at a record store and it 0:21:26.516 --> 0:21:28.196 was just crazy. And then I fell in love with 0:21:28.276 --> 0:21:31.636 Leonard Cohen, and I was like, that's me. I'm Leonard Cohen, don't. 0:21:31.636 --> 0:21:35.116 I don't mean I'm Leonard Cohen, but that's I identify 0:21:35.276 --> 0:21:38.596 with that. You went and got your MFA, which not 0:21:38.676 --> 0:21:41.556 a lot of country writers do. What made you want 0:21:41.596 --> 0:21:44.236 to do that? My life philosophy is like, we're all 0:21:44.236 --> 0:21:47.756 here to learn, and you know, as nature does grow 0:21:48.796 --> 0:21:52.196 until we made our end. So I went to get 0:21:52.276 --> 0:21:56.396 my MFA like I did when I was learning the fiddle, 0:21:56.516 --> 0:22:00.316 like with everything I had. When I discovered my passion 0:22:00.436 --> 0:22:04.396 for writing in words, I wanted to do that and 0:22:04.436 --> 0:22:05.956 I wanted to know what I was doing, and I 0:22:05.996 --> 0:22:08.676 wanted to be able to make decisions and know the 0:22:08.756 --> 0:22:12.836 reason for the decisions I was making and not kind 0:22:12.836 --> 0:22:15.676 of just go on instinct. Like I wanted to know 0:22:16.236 --> 0:22:20.316 down to the preposition what the word choices could be 0:22:20.436 --> 0:22:24.116 and then how they would affect a liner and emotion 0:22:24.236 --> 0:22:26.756 depending on where and how you use them. And I 0:22:26.836 --> 0:22:29.276 just wanted to be kind of able to do it 0:22:29.316 --> 0:22:34.596 with purpose and intention and to not second guess myself, 0:22:35.116 --> 0:22:38.196 but also stay open to criticism should somebody notice something 0:22:38.236 --> 0:22:41.956 I forgot. But for me, I get passionate about something 0:22:41.996 --> 0:22:44.556 and I want to do it and I want to 0:22:44.956 --> 0:22:47.036 do it right, and I don't get very passionate about 0:22:47.036 --> 0:22:49.756 a lot of things, basically just music, writing and painting. 0:22:50.156 --> 0:22:52.196 Where does that come from? Was someone in your family 0:22:52.276 --> 0:22:55.476 that way about what they did? No, I think when 0:22:55.516 --> 0:22:57.716 I think about it historically, I think it's something that's 0:22:57.756 --> 0:23:00.436 been lost. Like, I don't know, I'm no historian, but 0:23:00.476 --> 0:23:02.196 I feel like people used to do a lot more 0:23:02.236 --> 0:23:07.316 things like read and be into arts and learning. And 0:23:07.356 --> 0:23:09.636 I'm not trying to sound like an old grand mob, 0:23:09.636 --> 0:23:11.876 but you know, there's a lot of TV watching going 0:23:11.956 --> 0:23:15.356 on when you could be exploring yourself in the world 0:23:15.396 --> 0:23:18.516 around you. You know, I always preferred being outside over 0:23:18.596 --> 0:23:22.236 being inside. Yeah, I mean, there's nobody else that I 0:23:22.396 --> 0:23:25.556 know that really. I mean, my mom was a single 0:23:25.596 --> 0:23:29.836 mother who eventually became a doctor, but that was also 0:23:29.916 --> 0:23:32.436 while she's while she was raising two kids and being 0:23:32.476 --> 0:23:36.036 a bail bonds lady and working at Price Chopper. Wow, Okay, 0:23:36.076 --> 0:23:38.236 I think we know where it comes from that. Yeah, Okay, 0:23:38.636 --> 0:23:42.156 they're right, So there we go. What was learning to 0:23:42.156 --> 0:23:44.996 write at an MFA? Like, what kind of things did 0:23:45.036 --> 0:23:47.716 you do and how did they help your music. I 0:23:47.756 --> 0:23:53.436 think the MFA was the hardest thing I've ever done. Like, 0:23:53.476 --> 0:23:58.156 I read everything James Joyce ever wrote. I suffered ocular 0:23:58.236 --> 0:24:01.396 migraines and my lost vision in one of my eyes 0:24:01.476 --> 0:24:03.436 from reading so much, but it came back, thank God. 0:24:04.396 --> 0:24:08.076 And you know, we'd do everything from workshops to study 0:24:08.156 --> 0:24:13.556 Middle English and Old English and you know where words 0:24:13.636 --> 0:24:17.076 came from and vowel shifts, and poets we'd study other 0:24:17.116 --> 0:24:20.596 poets in their works and yeah, that was that was 0:24:20.636 --> 0:24:23.076