1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark Moss Show, 2 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: where we're always talking about the decentralized revolution, how the 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: world is changing as we look at it through the 4 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: lens of politics, finance, and technology. Of course, that technology 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: is bitcoin, the decentralized technology that is changing the world. 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: And you know, I like to bring to you some 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: interesting thought pieces, some latest breaking news, and of course 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: some interesting guests so you don't have to listen to 9 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: me all the time. 10 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: And that's what we have today. 11 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: I'm bringing in my friend Jimmy Song. He doesn't need 12 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: much of an introduction. You probably know who he is. 13 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 1: He's written several books on bitcoin, from how to Program 14 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: on Bitcoin, Thank God for Bitcoin one of my favorites, 15 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: and his latest book, which is Fiat Ruins Everything, Our 16 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,879 Speaker 1: financial system is rigged and how Bitcoin fixes it. I'm 17 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: excited to dig in Jimmy. Thanks for joining me today. 18 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me in, Mark. It's always a pleasure. 19 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, We've lately got to spend quite a bit of 20 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: time together. We got to hang out and have dinner 21 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: together in la We got to hang out in Amsterdam together. 22 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: That was pretty fun. So I've enjoyed hanging out with you. 23 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: I got a signed copy of your book, but I 24 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: haven't really got to read through the whole thing. But 25 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: let's discuss it anyway. First of all, how many books 26 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: have you written? 27 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: Now? 28 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 3: This is number five, mark, although three of them have 29 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 3: been with other people, so like this is my second 30 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: solo effort. 31 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: Before we dig into that, I do want to just 32 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: ask you about because you actually motivated me. You did 33 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: a book sprint that you documented the process. There was 34 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: like an article written. I think about that, and it 35 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: motivated me to do a book sprint. Alex Sveetski and 36 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: I wrote our book, The Uncommnist Manifesto. In that way, 37 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: I think it was brilliant. It sort of changed the 38 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: way that I look at big project work overall, like 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: just kind of planning these sprints. Let's just talk about 40 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: that for a second. So what is your process for 41 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: writing a book since now that you seem to almost 42 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: have it, like in this autopilot where you can pump 43 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: out five books? 44 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, so depending on how I, you know, organized the book, 45 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 3: so like Thank God for a Bitcoin, for example, was 46 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: collaboration with seven other people. So it depends on exactly 47 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 3: who's going to be writing it and sort of the 48 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 3: bounds around that. But what I found is that you know, 49 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 3: generally you want to begin with the end in line. 50 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 3: So one of the first exercises I do before writing 51 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 3: a single word is identifying who exactly I'm writing to, 52 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: so you know, if it's a collaborative effort, I have 53 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 3: everyone write down like a very specific portrait of the audience. 54 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 3: So it might be, you know, thirty year old men 55 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 3: that want to date more, I don't know, whatever, whatever 56 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 3: it is that you want to write about, you need 57 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 3: to have a specific audience member in mind. So for 58 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: this book in particular, the audience member I came up 59 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 3: with was some you know, sort of young male bitcoinner 60 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: that's been in the space for a little while, but 61 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 3: you know, it doesn't know sort of like the all 62 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: of the ins and outs of Fiat money and how 63 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 3: it affect everything. So that that was my target audience. 64 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 3: And then after that I have everyone write sort of 65 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 3: the Amazon book review that they want to see from 66 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 3: that audience member after they've read the book, So like, 67 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 3: just give yourself the benefit of the doubt all the 68 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: you know, the book does exactly what you wanted to do, 69 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 3: and afterwards, what do you want them to write on 70 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 3: the Amazon review, and I have them write it out, 71 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: so we have sort of like a north star and 72 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 3: a good way to sort of measure whether or not 73 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 3: something will do what you wanted to do, because otherwise, 74 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 3: especially when you're collaborating, a lot of things come down 75 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: to stuff like ego, where a lot of people will 76 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: sort of like jockey and you know, want things in 77 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: there just because it's theirs, instead of focusing on the audiences, 78 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 3: which is what you need to do. And then it's 79 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 3: a lot of brainstorming on ideas to get them to 80 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: the point where they'll write that review, and then organizing 81 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 3: those ideas to chapters, which then becomes your table off contents, 82 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 3: and then getting to work on sort of fleshing out 83 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 3: the ideas that you had before. So yeah, that's more 84 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 3: or less the entire process I discribe. 85 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: So if you start with you start with the who 86 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: the avatar? Who do I want to write to? Who 87 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: are they? Where are they at? Sort of a thing, 88 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: and then you write the review, which I think is genius. 89 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 1: I've never heard about that from a book writing perspective, 90 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: but that's like a typical or not maybe typical, but 91 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: it's something that in personal development, they would say to like, 92 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: write your own obituary, what would people say about you. 93 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 2: At your death? 94 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: And then you kind of live your life that way. 95 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: So you're writing, you're saying what would they say about 96 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: the book? And then you want to write the book 97 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: that way. But you didn't talk about maybe the journey 98 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: that you're trying to take that avatar on. So do 99 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: you think about, Okay, here's the avatar, here's who I'm 100 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: writing to, and I want to get them from here 101 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: to here? 102 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 2: Do you think about that journey? 103 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: Yeah? 104 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, So first, like you have to get down all 105 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 3: the ideas right, like you know where there are when 106 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 3: they begin the book, and you know where you want 107 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 3: them to be at the end of the books. So 108 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: there's a point A and a point B. And what 109 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: what I like to do is write down one idea 110 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: per like post it note, just like what do they 111 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 3: need to know to get there? 112 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: Right? 113 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: What are the various topics that they're going to need 114 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 3: to know about or various ideas that you need to 115 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: convey to them, And you just like brainstorm for you know, 116 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 3: thirty minutes to an hour or something like that, and 117 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 3: just write down every single thing that you can think of, 118 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,480 Speaker 3: and then you stick them on a wall so that 119 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 3: you have some you know, semblance of organization. And then 120 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 3: you organize them based on sort of like broad categories 121 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 3: and so on, ideas that are similar to each other 122 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 3: and so on. And then once you have these clumps 123 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: and you go ahead and label them and those become 124 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 3: your chapters. And then once you have the chapters and 125 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: you think about, okay, what makes the most sense to 126 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 3: take them on this journey? This is the journey part 127 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,840 Speaker 3: that you're talking about, where okay, we have these overall 128 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: large ideas that you need to take them from A 129 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 3: to B. Okay, what like what's the sequencing that makes 130 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: sense so that they'll be able to get it and 131 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: arrive at the place that that you want them to. 132 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 3: You don't necessarily want to start, for example, with something 133 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: very complicated that's maybe a later chapter, but something that 134 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 3: gets them in, you know, puts them through that journey 135 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 3: where they can sort of end where you want them 136 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 3: to go. 137 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you kind of figure out where you're taking 138 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: them after you've sort of done the brain dump and 139 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 1: put everything there, rather than doing that first. 140 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, And because in a sense, the book sort of 141 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 3: emerges out of the ideas that you need to convey. 142 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: And you know, if you if you try to sort 143 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: of like program it too much, and I don't know, 144 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 3: maybe maybe that that sort of thing works much better 145 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 3: in fiction or something like that. But at least for 146 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 3: you know, the specific goal that you have, you know, 147 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 3: some some level of thinking about like what what sort 148 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 3: of journey are they going to take? Does come into play, 149 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 3: you know, during the process, and you can you can 150 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: adjust certain things. So for example, when we were doing 151 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 3: Thank God for Bitcoin, the the journey that we wanted 152 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: them to go on is sort of like the Chrystal 153 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 3: Christological sort of journey, right, Like there's the corruption that 154 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: first happens, and then the the corruption. Uh uh, there's 155 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 3: the corruption, the creation, corruption, and redemption. It's a it's 156 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 3: a it's the entire redemption arc. That made sense because 157 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 3: of all the ideas that we wanted to put in there. 158 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: So we wanted to uh inform everyone about like inflation, 159 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 3: the federal reserve and like the immorality of money and 160 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: things like that, and but also like how it corrupts 161 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: all of these things at a societal level, at an 162 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,720 Speaker 3: individual level, even at church level. And then finally bring 163 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 3: in the redemption element, which is the last two chapters 164 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 3: about bitcoin, and that arc worked out, and that's sort 165 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 3: of like a template. I don't know if you've heard 166 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: of like the story with Many Faces or something like that. 167 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: There's only like, you know, eleven or twelve arc types 168 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: of stories in the world or something like that, and 169 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: every book can more or less be fit into one 170 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 3: of those. So you can sort of fit that in 171 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 3: after you've you know, got the material and take readers 172 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: sort of on that same journey. 173 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: It's interesting. 174 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: I like that. And do you follow that same approach 175 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,960 Speaker 1: whether you're writing on your own or with a group. 176 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: Are you still you would do it on your own 177 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: or then you have the group sort of do it 178 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: and then you kind of you bring it together. 179 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. For the group one, it has to be more structured, 180 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 3: just because you're having to coordinate a lot more people 181 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 3: and having them do certain things, and they need very 182 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 3: specific instructions so that you come out having sort of 183 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 3: like a coherent voice. Individually, it's a little bit looser, 184 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 3: and I found myself actually like having trouble with that 185 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: art or how to present this material in a coherent way. 186 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: And I, at least for this particular book, I had 187 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 3: to go change the structure like two or three times 188 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 3: before I finally found one that I really liked. 189 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: And I got to cut you off there, Jimmy, we 190 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: got to take a very short break. If you're just 191 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,960 Speaker 1: tune in, you're listening to the Mark Mass Show, I'm 192 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: sitting down with Jimmy Song. He wrote a new book 193 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: called How FIAT Ruins Everything, How our Financial System is rigged, 194 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: and how Bitcoin fixes It. We're gonna come back and 195 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: after a very short break and find out exactly how 196 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: FIAT ruins everything, what is it ruining, how it's doing that, 197 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: and so much more. 198 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: Don't go hey, We'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. 199 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 200 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: Mass Show, I'm sitting down with Jimmy Song, and we 201 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: are talking about his brand new book, Fiat Ruins Everything, 202 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: How our Financial System is rigged, and how Bitcoin fixes it. 203 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: We were talking about his book writing process. He's written 204 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,680 Speaker 1: five books, and so I just was curious about that 205 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: as someone who's written my own book and want to 206 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: write more, and maybe this might. 207 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: Inspire you as well. 208 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: But Jimmy, let's just dig into that Fiat ruins everything. 209 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: It's a pretty big statement. So what is it ruining 210 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: and how is it ruining it? 211 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's ruining things at all different levels of society. 212 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 3: I would say it at the individual level, it impedes 213 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 3: our ability to save, and that changes sort of the 214 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 3: incentives all at the individual level, because we don't have 215 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 3: very good savings vehicles. So, for example, a lot more 216 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 3: money goes into stocks and real estate than would in 217 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: a free market, just because people don't want to be 218 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: losing money at a rapid clip as their currency debasis. 219 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: So that that's one small way, but many other ways 220 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 3: as well. At the next level, up at the company level, 221 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 3: we have giant corporations instead of I guess more human 222 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 3: sized enterprises. There's something called Dunbar's number where you can't 223 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: really know more than about one hundred and fifty people 224 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: before you know, your brain kind of can't handle it. 225 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 3: But most organizations are way past that one hundred and 226 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 3: fifty mark, and most organizations are very inefficient as a result. So, 227 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 3: you know, I explore in the book about why it 228 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 3: is that we have these very large corporations like City Bank, 229 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 3: I think is like fifty thousand people or something ridiculous 230 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 3: that works, like even yeah, IBM's even bigger, it's like 231 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 3: three hundred thousand or something like that. There's what are 232 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 3: all these people doing? How do they even you know, 233 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: keep up with what they're doing and so on. So 234 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,839 Speaker 3: the incentives at the corporate level, you know, especially with 235 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 3: respect to entrepreneurship and inventiveness and stuff, are all skewed 236 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,040 Speaker 3: as a result of the money. And of course, at 237 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: the government level, there's all kinds of weird incentives at play, 238 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 3: mostly around the government being able to print their own moneies, 239 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 3: which is essentially stealth taxation, so they can essentially do 240 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 3: a lot of things to stay empower a regimes in 241 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: the past that not and that's ultimately meant a loss 242 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: of a lot of freedom, a loss of a lot 243 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 3: of property, and so on. And finally, at the global level, 244 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 3: you have essentially the dollar hegemony, meaning that there's the 245 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 3: world is dominated by the US and the Federal Reserve, 246 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 3: and there's a lot of global policy that gets set 247 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 3: at that level as a result of the power of 248 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 3: the dollar. 249 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 2: So let's break a couple of those down. 250 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: So, first of all, it sounds like maybe the big 251 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: one is that it just sort of changes the incentive structures. 252 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: And you've sort of maybe lined out a bunch of 253 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: the incentive structures that it changes sort of throughout that 254 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: whole process. I guess the ability to print money, fee 255 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: at money, create money, then change the incentive structure. So 256 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: you talked about on a personal level, we're not able 257 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 1: to save. So if we think about just that for itself, 258 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: like we want to work and we want to earn, 259 00:12:58,280 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: and we want to be able to save so that 260 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: we can then use that for future consumption. But when 261 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: we're not able to do that, then that changes our 262 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: incentive structure. So what you throughout now we're going into 263 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: stocks or one into real estate, things like that. One 264 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: thing I've thought about in regards to that is that 265 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: really the way capitalisms work and a lot of the 266 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: wealth has been developed, is that we have specialization and 267 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: so I should become the best brain surgeon, and you 268 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: should become the best physicist or whatever. But because we 269 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: can't reliably save now, I can't just be the best 270 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 1: brain surgeon. Half of my time now has to become 271 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 1: an investor as well. Potentially we've had this massive brain 272 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: drain that we can't even probably calculate. 273 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: But if all of if everybody. 274 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: Could have focused one hundred percent on their core specialization, maybe. 275 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: The world would have been better. Maybe the world would 276 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 2: have progressed faster or something like that. 277 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it would be a lot more efficient. 278 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 3: First of all, if you didn't have to work for 279 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: your money twice. I liken it too like a treadmill 280 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 3: where you have to run to stay in the same place. 281 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 3: And this is that investment portion that you were taughtalking about. 282 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 3: If you want to save at all, you have to 283 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 3: play this game, and you you were forced to invest 284 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 3: more or less gamble in many ways on the markets 285 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: in order to keep your money. And uh, you know, 286 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 3: for a lot of people, if you think about it, 287 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: at least in the past, under sound money, the wealth 288 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 3: accumulated to the people that provided the most value to society. 289 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 3: So if you made a new widget that did something 290 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 3: interesting or help people in some concrete way, then you 291 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: you got a lot of wealth allocated towards you because 292 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 3: you were able to sell those goods and services to 293 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 3: people and they would give you money, and that meant 294 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: that you're a pretty productive person in society. Nowadays, a 295 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: lot of people are rent seekers, but even if you 296 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 3: are very productive and you are able to, you know, 297 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 3: gather a lot of money as a result of providing 298 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 3: goods and services, well, you can't put as much energy 299 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: into that anymore. You have to put a lot of 300 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 3: energy into keeping your money. So we've taken a lot 301 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: of the most productive members of society and you've essentially 302 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 3: made them into investors. And I'm sure you've seen this 303 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: mark where you have a lot of venture capitals, for example, 304 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 3: that are former founders. Right, instead of creating new companies, 305 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 3: they end up having to invest because they don't want 306 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 3: to lose the money that they've made, so they're they're 307 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 3: continuously looking for other opportunities and so on. 308 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be almost like a form of multiplication though, 309 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: So like they could go create one new company, but 310 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: if they become an investor, they could help fifty new 311 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: companies launch. 312 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I under a sound money, maybe that 313 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 3: that would work. On their fiat money. Most of the 314 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 3: money that's being invested ends up being newly printed. And 315 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 3: because there's no direct pain that you feel. So if 316 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 3: you're an entrepreneur, you go, you go and raise money 317 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: from a bunch of ecs. You're essentially spending other people's money, 318 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 3: and you know there's but it's. 319 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: Money that they had created previously, right, So that's I 320 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: mean all the time based investment, right, Well. 321 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: It could be, but it's also oftentimes debt based investment. 322 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 3: So a lot of the time what happens is, and 323 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 3: I'm sure you're you're very well aware of how these 324 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 3: games work. Is you say you have like a ten 325 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 3: million dollar asset. You have a home somewhere right like 326 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 3: you have. You have a ten million dollar asset, You 327 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: don't want to liquidate it because you think it's a 328 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: good investment, but you have some other opportunities that you 329 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 3: want to invest in. What do you do? Well, you 330 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 3: take out a loan against your house, right, Like you 331 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 3: have a ten million dollar asset, can easily get five 332 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: million dollars. You take the five million that's created out 333 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: of thin air, and you use that to go invest 334 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: in other other things. This is how FIAT investment has 335 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 3: been for a very long time, is that the rich 336 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: people can multiply, you know, the the leverage on whatever 337 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 3: wealth they have because they have access to loans. And 338 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 3: this is the money that often goes into these venture 339 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 3: funds and so on. I mean, this isn't you know, 340 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: savings from their bank account. It's almost always like some 341 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 3: sort of loan or some r play based on the 342 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 3: assets that they already have. I mean, once in a while, 343 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 3: yeah you do, you do get cash and things like that, 344 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: but it's almost always loans. And the people that get 345 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: the richest are the ones that are able to most 346 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 3: effectively leverage so you know hedge funds and you know 347 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,479 Speaker 3: investment banks and so on. What they do is they 348 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 3: get fifty sixty, one hundred x on their money through 349 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 3: the shadow banking system. And of course when they win 350 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: and you know, you get twelve BIPs on a trade, 351 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 3: you know that ends up one hundred xing, so that's 352 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: really like ten point two percent or whatever. And they 353 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 3: do that. 354 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 2: Money is free. Yeah, money, the money is free. 355 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,879 Speaker 3: You get you get all of these bad incentives and 356 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: you get you get entrepreneurs that don't that are focused 357 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 3: more on getting to sort of like the next level 358 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: of a company, largely like being unicorns or whatever, rather 359 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: than actually providing value. Most startups don't make any money. 360 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 3: I mean, Amazon, I think has never paid a divid 361 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 3: and then thirty years of history, like what does that 362 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 3: say like the entire incentive structure is off because of 363 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 3: this presence of newly printed money that can always come in. 364 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,680 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in your listening to the Mark 365 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: Maus Show, I'm sitting down with Jimmy Song, the author 366 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: of the new book called FIAT Ruins Everything and how 367 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 1: our Financial System is rigged. And we're going to take 368 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: a very short break, but after we come back, I 369 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 1: want to find out how it's actually being rigged against us, 370 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: maybe some things that we can do, and how we 371 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: can fix it. 372 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 2: We're back with more a minute. Don't go away, beer back, 373 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 2: all right, welcome back. 374 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: If you just tune in your listening to the Mark 375 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: mass Show, we're talking with Jimmy Song, the author of 376 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: the new book FIAT Ruins Everything and How our Financial 377 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: System is rigged. And we were just talking about how 378 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: FIAT is ruining everything. It ruins incentive structures, it ruins 379 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 1: sort of the balance of power when we go into investments, 380 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: we're not on the even playing field. And I guess 381 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: that sort of then goes into the next point, Jimmy, 382 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: of your book and the title of how our Financial 383 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: System is Rigged, and you talked about how before the break. 384 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,360 Speaker 2: You were just talking about how you know a lot 385 00:18:58,359 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 2: of these big. 386 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: Vcs et cetera, These big investors are using debt, they 387 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: have access to capital that maybe we don't have. And 388 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 1: so is that what you mean, like how it's rigged? 389 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: Or is it because they have heavier influence I guess 390 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: the Cantalon effect they have they're closer to the money supply. 391 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: Or is it that most people just don't understand how 392 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: the financial system worked, and so if they you made 393 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: the point earlier, were forced to play. And so if 394 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: you're forced to play a game that you don't understand, 395 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: is that what you mean by being rigged? 396 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 3: Well, I would say it's rigged more in the former 397 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 3: sense of the Cantalan effect. So all money in central 398 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 3: bank back Fiat monetary system is created through loans. So 399 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 3: essentially one way to measure how much privilege you have 400 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 3: in this sort of economy is how much access do 401 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 3: you have to loans? Right? Like how much can you 402 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 3: get into debt? And the weird thing is the richer 403 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 3: you are, generally, the more debt you're in, and the 404 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 3: more leverage you have, and the more you're able to 405 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: get very favorable terms. I was reading that is that 406 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: a bad thing though, Jimmy, it is because it's all 407 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 3: newly created money. Right, So if anytime you have more 408 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 3: money coming into the economy, essentially you're stealing from everyone else. Now, 409 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 3: the biggest culprit by far is the federal government, and 410 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 3: you can tell by the budget. I think the latest 411 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 3: numbers say that already this year we're about two trillion 412 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 3: in the whole with respect to the federal deficit that 413 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 3: just created this year. But a lot of that money is, 414 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 3: you know, like where does it come from. It comes 415 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: from the federal reserve. It's created out of thin era, 416 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 3: and it goes on the balance sheet as part of 417 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 3: the federal deficit and so on. 418 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: But doesn't matter where the debt comes from. 419 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: Right. 420 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: So, like Misas talks about two types of credit, you 421 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: have commodity credit and circulation credit. So commodity credit comes 422 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: out of my savings. So let's just say, for example, 423 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: I grew ten bushels of wheat, I sell eight bush 424 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 1: of wheat. One of the bushels I'm gonna give to 425 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 1: you on credit. Yeah, so now that's that's increased your 426 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: purchasing power. But it came from my you know, my 427 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: delayed gratification, if you will, right versus circulation credit is 428 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: where money is just created. So there's a big difference 429 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: in types of credits. 430 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,120 Speaker 3: Yes, and that and that that's exactly the difference between 431 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 3: BLOCKFIE and unchained capital. Right. Unchained capital it's money that 432 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: is actually there and it is out of someone's savings, 433 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 3: and there's an opportunity cost to that money because the 434 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,479 Speaker 3: people lending that money out would otherwise have to have 435 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: the opportunity elsewhere to go get it. Whereas whereas the 436 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 3: loans that we're talking about, the cantal On effect, it 437 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 3: has no opportunity costs. It can it's literally created out 438 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,440 Speaker 3: of nothing, so you you you are able to expand 439 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: the money supply that way, and that that's how you 440 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 3: can kind of measure the bridge that these uh, these 441 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 3: players have. And you know, like socially speaking, like why 442 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 3: why our Vanguard and Blackrock, why why do they have 443 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 3: so much influence over everything? Why why are they able 444 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: to give ESG and d I mandates to companies? Is 445 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 3: because they have enormous leverage. They have access to loans, 446 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 3: and they they they can bankrupt any stock that they want. 447 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: They they're used there and they're using everybody's money against it, right, 448 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: They've taken over the pension funds and weaponize people's money 449 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: against them. Yeah. 450 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, And that's that's the thing. If you have access 451 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,479 Speaker 3: to the money, then you you essentially have a lot 452 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: of power. So we most people don't have the access 453 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 3: that like a black Rock has to shadow banking and 454 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 3: one hundred x leverage and things like that. Most people 455 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 3: have very little. In fact, one of the few ways 456 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 3: that most people have of get tapping into the monetary 457 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 3: spigot is through mortgages and student loans and low and 458 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 3: those are two of the places where prices have gone crazy, right, 459 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: Like you try to attend college or buy a house, 460 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 3: they're completely unaffordable. And that's where you're going to feel 461 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 3: that inflation the most is where the loans come in. 462 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 3: This is specifically the Cantalon effect and action, because these 463 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 3: are the places where people are allowed to take out 464 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 3: loans that come from nothing, and the prices of those 465 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: tend to go up tremendously as a result. 466 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: But is this sort of like you said earlier, like 467 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:31,400 Speaker 1: we're forced to play the. 468 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 2: Game whether we want to or not. And I hate that. 469 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: I hate that, Like I drove down. 470 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 1: I remember a couple mons ago, I was driving down 471 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: my main street here in town, and I did all 472 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: these shop owners and I just I felt sorry for 473 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: them because I'm like, they have no idea what's about 474 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: to happen to them? Most of them don't, right, And 475 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: where the FED creates all this money and creates this 476 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: artificial boom, and then they suck the money out and 477 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: then they create this bust. And most people are caught 478 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: off sides on this. And if they don't play the game, 479 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: if they don't grow rapidly and this time of growth. 480 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 2: They're going to fall d So their purchasing power will 481 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 2: be lost. 482 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: If they don't grow, if they don't add new locations 483 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 1: and buy new trucks and hire new people, they get 484 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: left behind. So they're forced to play, but if they don't, 485 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: But if they don't play, they get left behind. So 486 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: it's sort of like, I think that's kind of what 487 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: you're framing up. We're forced to play this game. So 488 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: if that's the case, I mean, we all have access 489 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,399 Speaker 1: to the credit and the debt, and so if I 490 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: need to grow my business, why do you think it's 491 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,239 Speaker 1: wrong for me to take on debt to add that 492 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: new location to get those trucks for my crews to 493 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: go out there and work and things like that. 494 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: Well, it's hard to make a moral judgment on a 495 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 3: lot of that stuff. But I would say that every 496 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 3: time you dilute the monetary you know, purchasing power of 497 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 3: somebody that is essentially an observing third party or whatever, 498 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 3: I think it's wrong. And the thing is it may 499 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: be very good for you specifically. It's certainly good for 500 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 3: the bank because they're able to collect interests. The you know, 501 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 3: trick of economics is figuring out, all right, what are 502 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 3: all of the unseen effects, what's actually going on the 503 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 3: you know, it might have seemed great that you got 504 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 3: PPP loans, for example, during the pandemic, but what were 505 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: the unseen effects? So all the business benefited, the government benefited, 506 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 3: you know, the people that were your customers benefited. Who lost, Well, 507 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 3: the people that lost were the people that were holding 508 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: the dollar. And we saw massive, massive inflation. And it's 509 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 3: not necessarily people in the US that it got hurt 510 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 3: the most. It's people in the developing countries. It's people 511 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: the orphan in North Korea that's unable to buy rice 512 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 3: because prices just doubled in the black market in North Korea. 513 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 3: That's who it's hurting. So I would say, yes. 514 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one benefit that we have in the United 515 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: States is that because the dollars the reserve currency of 516 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: the world. Yes, inflation has been very bad here in 517 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: the US, but it's much worse in other nations, like 518 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: Jimmy's pointing out, and so we're shipping a lot of 519 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,400 Speaker 1: that pain overseas, which is why we're seeing so much 520 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: pain happening. I mean, there's a bunch of reasons. It's 521 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: a very very complicated situation, but I think it really 522 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,080 Speaker 1: comes down to the type of credit, right, so back 523 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: to that circulation versus commodity credit, and it's a very 524 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 1: complicated situation. I think about it like if because of 525 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: the system we're in, and we're going to talk about 526 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: how this system can get fixed, and I believe there's 527 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: a much better version of the system that we have. 528 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 2: But in the system that we. 529 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: Have, if home a bunch of homes got built and 530 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: they need landscaping, well, I want to expand my landscaping business. 531 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: So I want to go provide value to them by 532 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: doing their lawns. I need to go buy more trucks 533 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: to get my people out there. I'll take on credit 534 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: to get those trucks. But now all those auto workers 535 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: at Forward that just got their pay raise are benefited 536 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: because now there's more trucks that need to be built. Right. 537 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: So it sort of does add into the economy, but 538 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: it's all baked on wrong incentives, malinvestment and things like that. Right, So, 539 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: even though there is incremental gains, the probably cost benefit 540 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: analysis of it it is that in the long run 541 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: it probably does more harm than it does good. I 542 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: guess this is sort of the point that we want 543 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,679 Speaker 1: to make, and so I agree. It's sort of like 544 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: what I hear Jeff Booth talk about all the time. 545 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: It's like it's hard to understand this new system when 546 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,679 Speaker 1: we're stuck in the existing system that we have today, 547 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: and so we're kind of stuck playing a game based 548 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: off of these rules that we see. But it could 549 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: be much better and it could be much more prosperous 550 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: for everybody in this new system. So that's what I 551 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: want to talk about next. I'm gonna take a very 552 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: quick break, but I'm gonna be right back with Jimmy 553 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: Song with more. 554 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 2: So don't go away. We'll be right back, all right, 555 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: Welcome back. 556 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: If you just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 557 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 1: Mass Show sitting down with Jimmy Song, the author of 558 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: the new book Fiat Ruins Everything, How our financial system 559 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 1: is rigged, and how Bitcoin fixes it. 560 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: Check it out. It's on Amazon. We'll put in the 561 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: show notes down below. 562 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: But Jimmy, so we were talking about, you know, these 563 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: incentive structures and how we're kind of stuck playing this game, 564 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. 565 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: We're sort of forced to play it. 566 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 1: I mean, I suppose you can opt out, but then 567 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 1: you just fall further and further behind. But the third 568 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: part of the title of your book, viet ruins Everything. 569 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 1: Our fine system is riggan, How Bitcoin fixed this? Talk 570 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: about how Bitcoin fixes this. We often throw out Bitcoin 571 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 1: fixes everything, I guess, fix the money, fix the world. 572 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: But what are you thinking about in this part here? 573 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 3: Well, so what Bitcoin fixes are really the incentives at play. 574 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 3: So we have a lot of corrupt incentives. For example, 575 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 3: you've pointed out several just in that last monologue there 576 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 3: about you know, how we can't really save anymore, so 577 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 3: we're forced to become sort of investors slash gamblers, and 578 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 3: you know this economy that oftentimes that we don't really 579 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 3: understand very well. There's also corporations who are incentivized to 580 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,239 Speaker 3: grow bigger and bigger so they can get bailouts and 581 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,640 Speaker 3: get access to that cantal on money. There's incentives at 582 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 3: the national level where every country uses the money spigot 583 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 3: to stay in power, and it becomes a very corrupting 584 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 3: influence and causes a lot of friction in the entire economy. 585 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 3: You get a lot of malinvestment and so on. And 586 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: of course you have the US domination at the global level, 587 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 3: which is the result of the ability to print the 588 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 3: world reserve currency. So all of those incentives start going 589 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 3: away as soon as you introduce the sound money. And 590 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: the beauty of bitcoin is that you don't need systematic change. 591 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 3: It's something that each individual can do one at a time. 592 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: So instead of you know, having some political action committee 593 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 3: lobby for a return to the gold standard and eliminating 594 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,239 Speaker 3: the FED, you just opt out by buying bitcoin and 595 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: going on a bitcoin standard and using that as your savings, 596 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 3: and by doing that you are no longer susceptible to 597 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 3: sort of the whims of the central bankers when they 598 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 3: dilute things by thirty percent through more money printing, you're 599 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 3: not affected because your bitcoin is sound. So having that 600 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 3: essentially changes things not just at the individual level, but 601 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 3: also at the corporate level. You get smaller companies, you 602 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: get people that are much more like low time preference. 603 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 3: You get countries that have to use explicit taxation instead 604 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 3: of the stealth tax of inflation. So government has to shrink, 605 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 3: and the world isn't dominated by the US, and the 606 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 3: US doesn't have doesn't end up engaging itself in wars 607 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 3: halfway around the globe pretty much every decade. Right Instead 608 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 3: of that, you have you have nations that are sovereign 609 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 3: that can try various things, and instead of corrupt institutions 610 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 3: like the World Bank and the IMF, you have countries 611 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 3: that are trying their own thing and you know, developing 612 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: their own economies instead of being subservient to the needs 613 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 3: of the Western world. 614 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: One of the best things I think about in regards 615 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,200 Speaker 1: to that is, you know, you talk about the individual level. 616 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: I want to come back to that, but when you 617 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: when you think about bigger on the corporate level, but 618 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: really even like the government level, that ability to print 619 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: that money allows them to entrench these positions that they 620 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 1: have and there's no consequence. And so what we see, 621 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: unfortunately is just government policies seem to get more and 622 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: more stupid, more idiotic. And what I mean by that 623 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: specifically is doing things that fail and then just doing 624 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 1: them over and over and over over again because there's 625 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: no consequence. And so something that Alex and I wrote 626 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: in our book, the on Commress Manifesto, we talk about 627 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: how bitcoin will bring back a system that has a 628 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: true cost of consequence, and so this hierarchical ladder to 629 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: success becomes fluid where people don't just go up and 630 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: then use money to stay there. If theyre's true skin 631 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: in the game, if there's true consequence, with a sound 632 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: money standard, they'll fall and then they'll come to the 633 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: bottom and make room at the top for new people. 634 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: And you started to get this like organic process of 635 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: competition that develops as opposed to governments such as get bigger, bigger, bigger, 636 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 1: and continue to print more and more money. And so 637 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: certainly that seems to be one of the biggest changes. 638 00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: And you know, with with something like culture, they say 639 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: it's set from the top down, and so really we 640 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: need the governments to change and that will sort of 641 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: change this whole process. But going back to this individual level, Jimmy, 642 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: you talked about we don't need this power on how 643 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: to tellusis we can just sort of pull out. We 644 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 1: can start with change within ourselves. You wrote another book 645 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: called Thank God for Bitcoin. You reference that one of 646 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: my favorite books. I've gifted it so many times, So 647 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: everyone listening should check out that book, thank God for Bitcoin. 648 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 2: But I saw this. 649 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: I saw this tweet from Pastor Coin came out the 650 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: other day and he was talking about why he thinks 651 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: so many people that maybe have come into the bitcoin 652 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: space have then came into Christianity, and he said, bitcoin 653 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: is not some spiritual entity or illumination. It's just software 654 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: running a computer. It's not bitcoin that produces this experience. 655 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: It's the revelation of objective truth. That's the real rabbit hole. 656 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: People ask questions like if this is true, what else 657 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 1: is true? And then that typically leads people back to 658 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: the church in the Bible, where there's truth. 659 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 2: What do you think about that? 660 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? Absolutely, And the way I describe it is little 661 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,840 Speaker 3: tea truth always leads to the big TA truth. And 662 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 3: the thing about FIAT money is that it is able 663 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 3: to subsist on lines, right, Like, the money doesn't exist, 664 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 3: it's all based on Okay, we're going to pretend that 665 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 3: we have more money even when we don't. Right, This 666 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 3: was the original sin of fractional reserve banking FIAT lets. 667 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 3: You sort of suspend reality as much as possible. You 668 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 3: alluded to it even at the corporate and national levels, 669 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 3: where all these entities use it to stay in power 670 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 3: when really they don't deserve it. In any meritocracy they 671 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 3: would fail. But in under sound money, what you get 672 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 3: are real market incentives and meritocracy winning and so on. 673 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 3: The better product wins instead of an inferior product with 674 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 3: a lot of regulatory modes and so on. So as 675 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 3: people get into coin, they are essentially slap with the truth. Right, Okay, 676 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 3: here is how the actual monetary system works. And the 677 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 3: thing about truth is that it's a little bit. It's 678 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 3: things a little when you first find out, especially when 679 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 3: you find out that you've been benefiting from a lot 680 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 3: of the lies or whatever. But once you get into truth, 681 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 3: it really tastes really good, right, Like, because there's so 682 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,320 Speaker 3: much explanatory power, there's knowledge that you're gaining and you 683 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 3: see the world much more clearly, and you can explain 684 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 3: things and predict things much better because you have a 685 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,240 Speaker 3: much better mental model of the world. And really, as 686 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,400 Speaker 3: human beings, what you want to be able to do 687 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 3: is have a good model of the world so you 688 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 3: can interact with the world in a reasonable way. And 689 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 3: that's what tastes really good. And I think that's what 690 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 3: ultimately leads a lot of people towards the big truth, 691 00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 3: which is God and you know, phil and metaphysics and 692 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 3: all of that stuff, which eventually I think leads everyone 693 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 3: towards uh, towards Christ. And and that's that's what we've 694 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 3: seen in this Not everyone's, you know, all the way 695 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 3: a Christ yet, but I've seen so many people in 696 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 3: this space that are on various parts of that journey 697 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 3: that are looking at these things and saying, Okay, what 698 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 3: is the basis of my morality? How should I raise kids? 699 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 3: And these are all things that you start thinking about 700 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 3: when you focus on the long term, when you're when 701 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,720 Speaker 3: you lower your time preference as you can through savings, 702 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 3: through sound money, through a bitcoin. 703 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, it just makes sense. 704 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean we if you just think about this just 705 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: from an objective lens or just a rational lens, Like 706 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: we need something to build our truth on, Like we 707 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: need we need the rock, right, we can't build our 708 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: house on the sand. We need our We need to 709 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: build our house on the rock. And maybe if that's 710 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: the best rock or not, that's a different discussion. But 711 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,359 Speaker 1: you still need to anchor on something because everything is relative, right, 712 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: and so if we're comparing one thing to the next, 713 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,399 Speaker 1: like what are we comparing it to? So we need 714 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: that source of truth. And I thought that was a 715 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: really good article. And I love how you say that 716 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 1: the little tea. So the little tea's the little truth 717 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: that you start building, sort of start adding up and 718 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: eventually you get to, Okay, what's the big truth that's 719 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: out there? And bitcoin as itself, as you said, isn't money. 720 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 2: It's just it's a ledger. It's an honest ledger, right, 721 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 2: and that's something big anyway. 722 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: If you're just tuning, listen too the Mark Mas Show 723 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 1: be sitting down with Jimmy Song. He's the author of 724 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: this brand new book we've been discussing called How FIAT 725 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: Ruins Everything and financial system is rigged and Bitcoin fixes 726 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: it well. Link in the show notes below. 727 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: Make sure to get it. 728 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 1: Leave them a review on Amazon if you like it, 729 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: and that's what we got. Thanks Jimmy, appreciate it. 730 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 3: Thank you.