WEBVTT - Tech in the Post Apocalyptic World (Part 1) 0:00:04.960 --> 0:00:15.880 The technology. What's text from dot com? Heyden, Welcome to 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.120 Text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I am joined today 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:22.760 by Joe McCormick, my co host of Worth Thinking, one 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.440 of my two colors, Forward Drink and writer extraordinaire and 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:31.800 all around hoopie food. Joe, welcome back to the show. 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:34.240 I don't know what that word you said means, but okay, 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.960 you need to read Hitchecker's Guide to the Galaxy. Oh yeah, 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:40.479 Ford Prefect is one who food who knows where his 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:43.760 towels in the back of my brain. So well, thank 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.160 you for having me on today, Jonathan, especially to talk 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.840 about this really exciting topic. Yeah, completing utter breakdown of society. Yeah, okay. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.920 So first, Joe, before I get into the listener request 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.680 that prompted this entire episode, I should let you know 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:01.480 that the previous episodes that went up and we're just recorded, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:05.000 we're with Ben Bolin about the Manhattan Project, so it 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.319 deals nicely into this one. Um. So, the this discussion 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.960 actually comes to us because a listener, Benjamin Gen McCall 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.440 on Twitter's wrote to us and said, after watching Mad Max, 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.880 I'm wondering what tech would be viable in a post 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:24.360 apocalyptic world, what which tech would be jerry rigged? So really, 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.119 this is such a huge topic. We could end up 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.880 having discussions about all sorts of different doomsday scenarios. Yeah, 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:34.600 I know. One of the options we talked about for 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:37.479 this episode was just coming up with a list of 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:41.200 like the maybe, uh, I don't know, weird tech hacks 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.399 you could make, yeah, in a post apocalyptic scenario. But 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:47.120 then we realized, like, uh, you know, we're not the 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:49.680 inventors of the waste land, right, Yeah, there there are 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:53.280 so many different science fiction stories out there that cover 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:57.400 this sort of material that two to kind of I mean, 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.600 we could have, I guess gone through each one in 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.360 Gray did it on a plausibility scale, but that would 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.760 have taken forever to sure. But we figured maybe a 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:08.160 better approach would be to say, Okay, let's imagine there's 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:13.639 a scenario that has represented a technological apocalypse. Suddenly all 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.720 of the technology that sustains our lives that usually just 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.320 runs in the background and keeps us happy without us 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.960 even noticing what it does for us? What if all 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.920 that went away? Yeah, so we're not so much focusing 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.800 on specific scenarios. We will some of them will come 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.200 into play because they factor into, uh, the contingencies we 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.400 might we might use in the case of a catastrophic 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.000 failure of technology, Like there could be somewhere you say, hey, 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.280 what if we use blah blah blah. So well, if 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:46.200 the reason for the catastrophe, if he was this, blah 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.680 blah blah, would not work. We'll get into that. But 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.280 but just some general catastrophes that that could be the 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.080 ones that lead into this nuclear war would be a 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.680 big one. Yeah, right, so that people always want to say, 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.560 zombie attack, zombie attack. Okay, so some store of pandemic 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.280 would be a possibility, right, The more realistic version of 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.800 and pandemics could end up being something that is directly 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.079 affecting people, or could be indirectly affecting by killing off 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.320 let's say, crops or livestock anything like that that could 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:21.560 lead to famine obviously, could also capitulate into technological failures sure, 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:24.480 like is imagined in the movie Interstellar where they talk 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:27.480 about the idea that there's like crop blight getting all 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.760 of their food supply. Yeah. So in that case, you 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.600 could end up having a vast reduction of the population 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:39.240 on Earth, which in turn would cause technological issues. Uh, 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.200 there are a lot of other ones to supervolcanic eruption 0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.720 could potentially at least four leading to catastrophic climate change. 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:50.920 Really anything that leads to catastrophic climate change, So really 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:55.040 just waiting around. Sadly, I wish that weren't the case, 0:03:55.080 --> 0:03:57.840 but uh so, there are a lot of different scenarios 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:00.320 that could lead to this, and and we got a 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.200 whole bunch of different variations of that in literature. And 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.960 at the end of this episode, Joe and I are 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:11.000 going to talk about our favorite post apocalyptic stories and scenarios. Uh. 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:13.000 The reason why I'm putting it at the end is 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.360 so that we have something wonderful to look forward to 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.360 on our journey through terror. But honestly, my favorite ones 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.599 are kind of depressing, so so are mine. It's fine, 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:24.520 but I mean it's kind of hard to have an 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.040 upbeat post apocalyptic scenario. I promise you folks, you're at 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.680 least gonna hear us talk about zardas. Yes, Zar does. 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.719 But okay, what's the first thing that we need to 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.760 talk about? The big tune in the basket, as I 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.680 might say from I think I said that recently. I 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.680 think pretty sure that was a forward thinking but I'm 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:46.360 not entirely certain. But let's get that out of the basket. 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.719 It's power. Yeah, the power grid. Yeah, the power grid 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.160 where our energy comes from, because almost everything that sustains 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.440 our life depends on it. Yeah, and on some form 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.560 or another, If not directly, then indirectly. Correct. So, yeah, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.200 the power grid is the big one. Let's say that 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:07.520 whatever the catastrophe is has hit the power grid, and 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.840 we're largely going to be focusing on the United States 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.839 because that's where Joe and I live. But power grids 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:17.040 across the world have varying degrees of vulnerability. Many of 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:19.799 them are very old. There are elements of the United 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:23.159 States power grid that date back to the late nineteenth century. Yeah. 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:27.800 In fact, our current power grid is not there. Oh man, 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:34.359 I hate it when that happens. Our press temporary power grid, yes, 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.280 is not necessarily in the best of shape. No, this 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.840 could come as a rude awakening to some people. Yeah, 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.559 So here's here's the deal. First of all, the power 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.360 grid is incredibly complex. We talk about it as if 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.440 it's this big united thing, but really it's a collection 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:54.600 of lots of smaller things. So in most basic terms, 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.200 how does it work? All? Right? Most basic terms, if 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:01.360 you want to look at kind of the the microcosm, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:04.640 the individual element that makes up the power grid, you're 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.440 looking at a power plant, uh, something that is generating 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.800 electricity through some means. There are a lot of different 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.480 versions of this. There are coal fired power plants that 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.680 use coal to generate heat, turns water into steam. Steam 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:19.200 turns a turbine that's what generates the electricity. Uh. Have 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:22.119 a hydro electric plant, hydro electric that's using the power 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.520 of water moving turbines in a similar fashion, there are 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:29.000 wind turbines that use wind to do that. Solar generation 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:35.040 where you're you're you're really just converting solar power into electricity. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.120 That's one of the few that doesn't require steam or 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.719 or turbines. You've got, of course, nuclear power, which is 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.120 really like coal fired on steroids, except it's using obviously 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.960 nuclear fuel, not burning coal, and no smoke, no smoke, 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.440 there's lots of steam. Uh. Yeah, if you're if you 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.080 are have designed it properly, it's perfectly safe. At least 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.720 the operation is the nuclear fuel and the waste generated 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.480 is something else that is an issue, But we're not 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.640 going to go into that because it's just it's it's 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.720 a side issue to what we're talking about today. Though, 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:08.479 if you are interested in that, we did a couple 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.800 of episodes before thinking about that some time last year. Yeah, 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.800 those were a lot of fun. So definitely recommend us. 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:17.880 One might be a word to describe how we Well, 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.360 it was fun nuclear way. It's fun in the sense 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.160 of really trying to wrap your brain around something that's 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.080 truly complicated, not just the technology, but the political and 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:30.760 cultural side of it. Uh. Then you also have things like, 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.840 um not, there's there's natural gas uh. And there's also 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.320 oil power power plants, power plants that rely on oil 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.360 belthough that's a very small percentage of the ones that 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.840 are used here in the United States. So you've got 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.160 these power plants. They generate the electricity a the The 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.320 electricity is sent through a transformer which steps up the voltage. 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.800 The reason for this is that the higher voltages will 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.520 transmit over a greater distance with less loss of energy. Right, 0:07:57.520 --> 0:07:59.960 So it's going to be alternating current going out through 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.760 all of the wires of the grid to the neighborhood. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.160 Direct current will not work in a transformer. You have 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:08.480 to use alternating current. So yeah, it steps up the 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.120 power you have. You have different types of lines. There's 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:15.920 a distribution power line that is pretty heavy duty. That's 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:19.040 what carries the super high voltage that gets stepped down 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.400 by a different type of transformer for the power lines 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.400 that you typically see in the neighborhood. So like the 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:28.360 telephone polls that have the power lines um dangling from them, 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.760 particularly on a hot George today, Uh, those are those 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.640 have been stepped down from the major transmission lines. There's 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.199 another transformer that will step that power down again before 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.680 it goes into a building or a home or whatever 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.439 to be the proper voltage for us here. Uh. So 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:49.160 that's your basic setup, right. That's and the power grid 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.040 is made up of lots of these. By the way, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:56.800 these power plants are run by different organizations, different entities, 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.240 so it's not all a unified thing. You're in the 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.199 United States and not just like the government or something 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.600 privately owned power generation company. It's not like the monopoly 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.040 board where you just you land on the utility and 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.160 you own it and that's all of it. It's not 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:14.959 the way it works. So it's the real monopoly. You 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.360 should be able to win monopoly as soon as you 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:21.040 buy electric right, like exactly like, Hey, do you want 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:24.200 power in your hotel? Guess a lot, buddy, I am it. 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:27.840 So as it turns out that's you know, that's not 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.040 the case. There are all these different entities across the 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.080 power grid that and that generate power, and they're doing 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.480 it with different types of hardware and software, which makes 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:38.559 it even more complicated. And we'll talk about that a 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:42.920 little bit when we get into cybersecurity. So um. Because 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:49.360 of this complexity, there are lots of potential points of failure. Uh. 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:56.400 And the complexity both cushions the power grid from failure 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.520 and also is vulnerable to to further failure. It all 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:04.560 depends upon the actual conditions that exist at any given time, right. 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:06.960 I guess in the best case scenarios, all of the 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.600 interconnectedness of it would mean in some cases you have 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.840 some degree of redundancy. Yeah. It's kind of like if 0:10:11.840 --> 0:10:14.480 you think about the Internet, how if a a single 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:19.559 computer goes down, traffic can route around it. The power 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.559 grid's kind of like that. But depending upon where you are, 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:25.959 you may you know, if a power plant goes offline 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.040 for whatever reasons, if it is quote unquote tripped, which 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:33.640 means that it turns off essentially for any amount of time. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:38.200 You may be without power until it's returned to service. Uh. 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:41.560 Other areas might be able to receive power through rerouting 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.680 or whatever. But the goal, of course is to create 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.200 a smart grid that can respond to those issues in 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.760 real time. But the reality is we do not have 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.440 a truly smart grid throughout the United States. It's not 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.079 a unified system like that. Here's an interesting fact I'm 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:00.240 seeing in the notes that I wasn't aware of before. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:06.160 We've got three interconnected grids in the United States. That's correct. This. Yeah, 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:10.000 the Eastern Interconnection, which you would think at first, Oh, 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.760 that's gonna be the East Coast, right, Well, yes, it's 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:16.360 the East Coast all the way out to the Rocky Mountains. Uh. Yeah, 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.040 that's the Eastern Interconnection. It's a large part of the nation. 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:22.559 And then you've got the Western Interconnection, which is the 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.120 Rocky Mountains to the Pacific. And then you've got the 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:32.200 Texas Interconnected System which covers Texas big shock there. So uh, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.600 I don't mean that in that electricity sense either, So 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.480 I didn't mean to, but yes, you've got these three 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:41.679 larger interconnected grids that collectively make the power grid of 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.120 the United States. There are two related concepts when it 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:47.000 comes to power grids that we want to talk about. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:52.040 There's reliability and there's resiliency. So reliability is how consistent 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.199 is that power grid? How frequently are there any interruptions 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:59.200 in power? The fewer the more reliable. Obviously, so if 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.599 you're having freak went brown outs, that's not reliable. No, 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:07.080 it's not reliable. It would be rough to UH, and 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.839 obviously we have had periods of that in the history 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.080 of the United States and in different regions. Then there's resiliency, 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.880 which refers to the power grid's ability to withstand adverse 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.920 effects like solar flare activity or severe weather or you know, 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:22.600 an apocalyptic scenario like if an e MP went off. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:25.360 By the way, if an e MP goes off, electromagnetic pulse, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.040 that's what that stands for. UH, there's not I don't 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.200 think there's a power grid on the world that is 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.800 resilient enough to withstand a truly powerful electromagnetic pulse. UM. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.200 Also the interesting thing with those is that you know, 0:12:37.240 --> 0:12:40.880 you hear about these, like especially in movies. You'll see UH, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.200 like Oceans eleven uses an e MP at one point 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.360 to knock out the security system of casino, because if 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.840 you're gonna do it, this will go a whole long. 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:54.959 Um yeh, then they get back outside somehow. Yeah. Yeah, 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.400 at any well, you know, hey, it's a movie. Um. 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.240 But at any rate, the the e MPs, depending upon 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.320 how powerful they are, they and how close you are 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:06.120 to the pulse. Uh, that can affect all sorts of 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:11.600 levels of electronics, although generally speaking, the larger the system, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.840 the more vulnerable it is, because the more more likely 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.120 it will have current running through it as a result 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.400 of this electromagnetic pulse. It's the same principle that's affecting 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:26.160 the transformers. It's just imagine that it's this enormous pulse 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.400 that isn't a controlled element of the power grid. So uh, 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:33.480 most e mp s would probably affect large systems like 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:36.680 the power grid, but leave smaller stuff like The less 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:38.920 complicated and smaller it is, the less likely it's going 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.800 to be directly affected by the MP's. Yeah, so your 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:45.360 battery operated stuff might work for a while at least 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.400 until the batteries run out, even in the face of 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.240 an MP, unless you happy to be really close to 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:53.400 where the pulse goes off. Alright, so resiliency and reliability 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:58.160 to very important concepts. I read a report and boy 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.920 was this sort of a report hard. It was a 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.680 report card. Yeah, The American Society of Civil Engineers released 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.440 a report card that grade of the United States on 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.880 various elements of its infrastructure. And this came out in 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.640 two thousand thirteen. The whole thing is available online. It's 0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:16.880 a very interactive site that will depress you if you 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.160 live in the United States because overall US got a 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:25.240 D plus and that was for everything. That included things 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.960 like not just electricity and energy, but drinking water, bridges, damns, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.160 hazardous waste handling, and aviation were also in there. Um, 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:36.480 none of the grades were great. So what's are like 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:41.440 gym class grade that's waiting it up? Oh right, Um, yeah, 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.800 some of them are a little better than others. Actually, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.800 D plus being the the average the g p A. 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:51.080 That's also what we got for energy. So it's still 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.240 a failing grade, but it's one of the higher ones. 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:56.960 I mean, like, it's not a D like are I think? 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.240 I think bridges got a D? So like, so you're 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.080 telling me, is I really need to charge my cell 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.480 phone before the zombies attack and you really need to 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:09.040 make sure your your your commute home doesn't go over bridges. Um. Yeah, 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.960 they also, by the way, graded individual states. Not every 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.440 state got a grade, but Georgia did. We gotta ce. 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.160 Oh so that's better than average. Yeah, we we it's 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.680 better than the average score for the United States. By 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.320 the way, in case you are unfamiliar with this grading score, 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.520 the scale of grading, Uh, the school's not used that anymore, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.520 not not not universally, and we have listeners from all 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:35.800 over the world. So this would be a grade system 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:39.360 that typically goes A, B and C would be the 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.720 passing grades see being average, B being good, and A 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:47.400 being superior. Then you have D, which is technically a 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.320 failing grade, and you've got plus and minus as well. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.600 So on the highside, D plus would be oh, you 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.040 almost passed, but you didn't. Uh. I don't know if 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.600 anyone who has ever used E, but F means fail. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:04.000 I thought a D was just a shameful passing grade. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.520 I always thought of C as well, maybe, but I 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:09.080 always thought C was passing like C minus was the 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.720 for me, the threshold of passing. Essentially, that was the 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.360 equivalent if you looked at it percentiles A seventy folks 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:19.040 right in and let us know what you think about 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.680 D S. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a failing grade, 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.120 but I could be wrong. Uh F is outright fail 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:29.760 D is like on the cusp um. So maybe I 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.640 guess if you're a glass half full kind of guy, 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.800 you might say that D is a passing grade D 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.560 plus for energy. Energy, by the way, was not just 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.640 the power grid. It was all the elements of energy 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.120 in the United States, but they did focus quite a 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:47.600 bit on the power grid. They reported the aging infrastructure 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.000 of the power grid as a huge problem, some of 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.040 it again dating all the way back to the late 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:57.040 eighteen hundreds, so it's pretty old um. And they also 0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:02.640 said that they these older facilities and potucular are they're 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.280 prone for failure for things like just the fact that 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.840 it's such an aging infrastructure. They're not very good at 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:13.600 handling uh adverse conditions like weather events or solar flares, 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:17.320 that sort of stuff. And they said that the significant 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:20.120 power outages in general are on the rise. They said 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:24.320 there were seventy six recorded significant power outages. They didn't 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:27.680 define what significant means in the stuff I was reading, 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:29.760 so I'm not sure exactly what that refers to, but 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.640 seventy six of them in two thousand seven and three 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.840 hundred seven of them in two thousand eleven. So it's 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.520 a problem that is getting worse. So that's that's an issue. 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.080 But they also had some less awful news in it. 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.720 So they said that the United States is having a 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:51.879 very slow growth in population in general, the rate of 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.480 increases is fairly low when it comes to the need 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.000 for electricity. So, in other words, our population isn't growing 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:03.320 so quickly that our need for electricity is outpacing our 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:08.920 ability to generate electricity, and in fact, there probably won't 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:13.560 be a significant issue until around And that's that's saying 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.080 that we don't we haven't invested in our ability to 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.359 generate electricity. They of course very strongly advocate that we 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:24.440 should be investing in that, both in the the power 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:29.479 generation or the electricity generation and the transmission of electricity. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:32.479 All right, well, let's look at one particular type of 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.880 threat to our energy infrastructure. How about a cyber attack. Yeah, 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.760 we've talked about this on tech stuff quite a few times. Uh, 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.920 I mean, could foreign hackers just shut down the United 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:49.000 States with some with some smart malicious computer people, probably 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:53.720 not the United States, but certainly elements within the United 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:59.399 States very targeted ones. Yes, because this is not a 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:03.359 surprise we have discovered, we being people in the United States, 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:08.080 not myself in particular, UM that there are elements of code, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:13.600 malicious code within several different facilities throughout the United States, 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.600 within our our power grid infrastructure. UM A lot a 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.280 lot of them originating from China, some from Russia. But 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:26.400 there are elements of code that clearly have been planted there, 0:19:27.359 --> 0:19:33.480 possibly as a way to weed out vulnerabilities and uh, 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.720 you know, in the effort to exploit them in some 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.360 potential future. So it's not necessarily the case that these 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.280 are all going to shut off on the same day. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:44.040 In fact, that's probably not going to happen. And it's 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.920 largely because of what I talked about earlier, the fact 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:48.479 that the power grid is actually made up of all 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:54.080 this diverse you know, hardware and software run by different organizations. 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.479 It means that there's not a unified means of shutting 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.040 everything down, so any attacks would probably be very specific 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.800 and people know to look out for this stuff now. 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.719 So there's there's there might be individual utilities that are 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.719 lagging behind because they're not paying enough attention to this problem. 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.400 But it's not a universal issue. So in other words, 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.720 it's kind of patchwork, right. You You may be that 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.720 the target you've selected is really vulnerable, but also means 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:26.760 that the effects are going to be localized to that area. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.119 You can't. You can't say like, oh, he has a 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:31.960 big red switch and when we push it that lights 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:33.720 go out. It's not gonna be like that. Also, I 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.840 don't know why I would, Well, they're actually Austrian, but 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:40.639 it is just because that's where I go for the 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:46.440 my mad scientist. It is scent to our German or 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.720 Austrian listeners. No, or to our Russian ones who who 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.960 really agree that the Russian mad scientists is the best one. 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:55.879 I mean, there's they all have their charms, is what 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.840 I'm getting at. Well, you know, one possibility that strikes 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.119 me is you're saying that a cyber attack could potentially 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:08.520 target a localized facility or small subsection of infrastructure, though 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.280 there's always the possibility that by doing so they could 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:16.480 trigger chains of larger events. Yes, and this is where 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:21.800 you have to start taking into consideration the specific conditions 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.680 around that localized area. So is this is scenario people 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.480 have actually imagined, like a sort of a cascading series 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.840 of problems that get bigger and bigger with infrastructure failure. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:37.320 It absolutely is. Yeah. There have been studies that have 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:44.639 looked at specific UM systems that have centralized critical nodes, 0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:49.560 which would be very much similar to United States power grid, 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.320 and if you were to target one of those important 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.600 critical nodes and take it down, there's the potential to 0:21:56.600 --> 0:22:00.080 have this cascading domino effect where it would the the 0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.080 loss of that part of the power grid would put 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.920 such a burden on the surrounding ones that they too 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.520 could fail, which could potentially cause others to fail as well. 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:14.000 It might not be a nationwide outage, but it might 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:17.840 be much more significant than that one utility going down. 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.359 UM for that to happen, generally speaking, you have to 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:26.760 have other elements that are at play. It's it's generally 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:31.520 understood or believe that if it's an average day that 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:36.480 probably it would just be the localized utility that was affected, 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.520 but if other issues, like if it was at a 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:46.040 peak demand when other neighboring utilities were working overtime to 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:49.840 supply power, because just because the way that particular day 0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.439 is unfolding, then you might have a different situation on 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:55.679 your hands. I have to imagine somebody has tried to 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.120 simulate this. There have been a lot of interesting simulations 0:22:59.160 --> 0:23:01.399 that I looked in to, most of which we're saying, hey, 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:05.640 it's not as bad as we think unless and it's 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:08.800 always that unless you like you're like, I guess, I 0:23:08.800 --> 0:23:13.080 guess if if things are aligned just right or just 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:16.480 really really wrong, then it could be really bad. In fact, 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:18.560 in August two thousand thirteen, there was an article in 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:20.760 Nature of Physics where scientists from the United States and 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.560 Israel asserted that a cascading failure in the system, it 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:27.920 depends on those few critical elements, but they pretty much 0:23:27.920 --> 0:23:30.800