1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: The technology. What's text from dot com? Heyden, Welcome to 2 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: Text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I am joined today 3 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: by Joe McCormick, my co host of Worth Thinking, one 4 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: of my two colors, Forward Drink and writer extraordinaire and 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: all around hoopie food. Joe, welcome back to the show. 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: I don't know what that word you said means, but okay, 7 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: you need to read Hitchecker's Guide to the Galaxy. Oh yeah, 8 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: Ford Prefect is one who food who knows where his 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: towels in the back of my brain. So well, thank 10 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: you for having me on today, Jonathan, especially to talk 11 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: about this really exciting topic. Yeah, completing utter breakdown of society. Yeah, okay. 12 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: So first, Joe, before I get into the listener request 13 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: that prompted this entire episode, I should let you know 14 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: that the previous episodes that went up and we're just recorded, 15 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: we're with Ben Bolin about the Manhattan Project, so it 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: deals nicely into this one. Um. So, the this discussion 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: actually comes to us because a listener, Benjamin Gen McCall 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter's wrote to us and said, after watching Mad Max, 19 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: I'm wondering what tech would be viable in a post 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: apocalyptic world, what which tech would be jerry rigged? So really, 21 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: this is such a huge topic. We could end up 22 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: having discussions about all sorts of different doomsday scenarios. Yeah, 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: I know. One of the options we talked about for 24 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: this episode was just coming up with a list of 25 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: like the maybe, uh, I don't know, weird tech hacks 26 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: you could make, yeah, in a post apocalyptic scenario. But 27 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: then we realized, like, uh, you know, we're not the 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: inventors of the waste land, right, Yeah, there there are 29 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: so many different science fiction stories out there that cover 30 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: this sort of material that two to kind of I mean, 31 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: we could have, I guess gone through each one in 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: Gray did it on a plausibility scale, but that would 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,760 Speaker 1: have taken forever to sure. But we figured maybe a 34 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: better approach would be to say, Okay, let's imagine there's 35 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,639 Speaker 1: a scenario that has represented a technological apocalypse. Suddenly all 36 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 1: of the technology that sustains our lives that usually just 37 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: runs in the background and keeps us happy without us 38 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: even noticing what it does for us? What if all 39 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: that went away? Yeah, so we're not so much focusing 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: on specific scenarios. We will some of them will come 41 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: into play because they factor into, uh, the contingencies we 42 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: might we might use in the case of a catastrophic 43 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: failure of technology, Like there could be somewhere you say, hey, 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: what if we use blah blah blah. So well, if 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: the reason for the catastrophe, if he was this, blah 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 1: blah blah, would not work. We'll get into that. But 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: but just some general catastrophes that that could be the 48 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: ones that lead into this nuclear war would be a 49 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: big one. Yeah, right, so that people always want to say, 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: zombie attack, zombie attack. Okay, so some store of pandemic 51 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: would be a possibility, right, The more realistic version of 52 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: and pandemics could end up being something that is directly 53 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,079 Speaker 1: affecting people, or could be indirectly affecting by killing off 54 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: let's say, crops or livestock anything like that that could 55 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: lead to famine obviously, could also capitulate into technological failures sure, 56 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: like is imagined in the movie Interstellar where they talk 57 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: about the idea that there's like crop blight getting all 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: of their food supply. Yeah. So in that case, you 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: could end up having a vast reduction of the population 60 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: on Earth, which in turn would cause technological issues. Uh, 61 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: there are a lot of other ones to supervolcanic eruption 62 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: could potentially at least four leading to catastrophic climate change. 63 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: Really anything that leads to catastrophic climate change, So really 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: just waiting around. Sadly, I wish that weren't the case, 65 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: but uh so, there are a lot of different scenarios 66 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: that could lead to this, and and we got a 67 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: whole bunch of different variations of that in literature. And 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, Joe and I are 69 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: going to talk about our favorite post apocalyptic stories and scenarios. Uh. 70 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: The reason why I'm putting it at the end is 71 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: so that we have something wonderful to look forward to 72 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: on our journey through terror. But honestly, my favorite ones 73 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: are kind of depressing, so so are mine. It's fine, 74 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: but I mean it's kind of hard to have an 75 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: upbeat post apocalyptic scenario. I promise you folks, you're at 76 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: least gonna hear us talk about zardas. Yes, Zar does. 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 1: But okay, what's the first thing that we need to 78 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: talk about? The big tune in the basket, as I 79 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: might say from I think I said that recently. I 80 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: think pretty sure that was a forward thinking but I'm 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: not entirely certain. But let's get that out of the basket. 82 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: It's power. Yeah, the power grid. Yeah, the power grid 83 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 1: where our energy comes from, because almost everything that sustains 84 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: our life depends on it. Yeah, and on some form 85 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: or another, If not directly, then indirectly. Correct. So, yeah, 86 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: the power grid is the big one. Let's say that 87 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: whatever the catastrophe is has hit the power grid, and 88 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: we're largely going to be focusing on the United States 89 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 1: because that's where Joe and I live. But power grids 90 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: across the world have varying degrees of vulnerability. Many of 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,799 Speaker 1: them are very old. There are elements of the United 92 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: States power grid that date back to the late nineteenth century. Yeah. 93 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: In fact, our current power grid is not there. Oh man, 94 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: I hate it when that happens. Our press temporary power grid, yes, 95 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: is not necessarily in the best of shape. No, this 96 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 1: could come as a rude awakening to some people. Yeah, 97 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,559 Speaker 1: So here's here's the deal. First of all, the power 98 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: grid is incredibly complex. We talk about it as if 99 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: it's this big united thing, but really it's a collection 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: of lots of smaller things. So in most basic terms, 101 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: how does it work? All? Right? Most basic terms, if 102 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: you want to look at kind of the the microcosm, 103 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: the individual element that makes up the power grid, you're 104 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: looking at a power plant, uh, something that is generating 105 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: electricity through some means. There are a lot of different 106 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: versions of this. There are coal fired power plants that 107 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: use coal to generate heat, turns water into steam. Steam 108 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: turns a turbine that's what generates the electricity. Uh. Have 109 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,119 Speaker 1: a hydro electric plant, hydro electric that's using the power 110 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: of water moving turbines in a similar fashion, there are 111 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: wind turbines that use wind to do that. Solar generation 112 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: where you're you're you're really just converting solar power into electricity. 113 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: That's one of the few that doesn't require steam or 114 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: or turbines. You've got, of course, nuclear power, which is 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: really like coal fired on steroids, except it's using obviously 116 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: nuclear fuel, not burning coal, and no smoke, no smoke, 117 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: there's lots of steam. Uh. Yeah, if you're if you 118 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: are have designed it properly, it's perfectly safe. At least 119 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: the operation is the nuclear fuel and the waste generated 120 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: is something else that is an issue, But we're not 121 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: going to go into that because it's just it's it's 122 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: a side issue to what we're talking about today. Though, 123 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,479 Speaker 1: if you are interested in that, we did a couple 124 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: of episodes before thinking about that some time last year. Yeah, 125 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: those were a lot of fun. So definitely recommend us. 126 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: One might be a word to describe how we Well, 127 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: it was fun nuclear way. It's fun in the sense 128 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: of really trying to wrap your brain around something that's 129 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: truly complicated, not just the technology, but the political and 130 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: cultural side of it. Uh. Then you also have things like, 131 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: um not, there's there's natural gas uh. And there's also 132 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: oil power power plants, power plants that rely on oil 133 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: belthough that's a very small percentage of the ones that 134 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: are used here in the United States. So you've got 135 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: these power plants. They generate the electricity a the The 136 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: electricity is sent through a transformer which steps up the voltage. 137 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: The reason for this is that the higher voltages will 138 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: transmit over a greater distance with less loss of energy. Right, 139 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: So it's going to be alternating current going out through 140 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 1: all of the wires of the grid to the neighborhood. 141 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: Direct current will not work in a transformer. You have 142 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: to use alternating current. So yeah, it steps up the 143 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: power you have. You have different types of lines. There's 144 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: a distribution power line that is pretty heavy duty. That's 145 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: what carries the super high voltage that gets stepped down 146 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: by a different type of transformer for the power lines 147 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: that you typically see in the neighborhood. So like the 148 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: telephone polls that have the power lines um dangling from them, 149 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: particularly on a hot George today, Uh, those are those 150 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: have been stepped down from the major transmission lines. There's 151 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: another transformer that will step that power down again before 152 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: it goes into a building or a home or whatever 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: to be the proper voltage for us here. Uh. So 154 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: that's your basic setup, right. That's and the power grid 155 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: is made up of lots of these. By the way, 156 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: these power plants are run by different organizations, different entities, 157 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: so it's not all a unified thing. You're in the 158 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: United States and not just like the government or something 159 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: privately owned power generation company. It's not like the monopoly 160 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: board where you just you land on the utility and 161 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 1: you own it and that's all of it. It's not 162 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: the way it works. So it's the real monopoly. You 163 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: should be able to win monopoly as soon as you 164 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: buy electric right, like exactly like, Hey, do you want 165 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 1: power in your hotel? Guess a lot, buddy, I am it. 166 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: So as it turns out that's you know, that's not 167 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: the case. There are all these different entities across the 168 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: power grid that and that generate power, and they're doing 169 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: it with different types of hardware and software, which makes 170 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: it even more complicated. And we'll talk about that a 171 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: little bit when we get into cybersecurity. So um. Because 172 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: of this complexity, there are lots of potential points of failure. Uh. 173 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: And the complexity both cushions the power grid from failure 174 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: and also is vulnerable to to further failure. It all 175 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: depends upon the actual conditions that exist at any given time, right. 176 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: I guess in the best case scenarios, all of the 177 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: interconnectedness of it would mean in some cases you have 178 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: some degree of redundancy. Yeah. It's kind of like if 179 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: you think about the Internet, how if a a single 180 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: computer goes down, traffic can route around it. The power 181 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: grid's kind of like that. But depending upon where you are, 182 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: you may you know, if a power plant goes offline 183 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: for whatever reasons, if it is quote unquote tripped, which 184 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 1: means that it turns off essentially for any amount of time. 185 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: You may be without power until it's returned to service. Uh. 186 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: Other areas might be able to receive power through rerouting 187 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: or whatever. But the goal, of course is to create 188 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: a smart grid that can respond to those issues in 189 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: real time. But the reality is we do not have 190 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: a truly smart grid throughout the United States. It's not 191 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: a unified system like that. Here's an interesting fact I'm 192 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: seeing in the notes that I wasn't aware of before. 193 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: We've got three interconnected grids in the United States. That's correct. This. Yeah, 194 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: the Eastern Interconnection, which you would think at first, Oh, 195 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: that's gonna be the East Coast, right, Well, yes, it's 196 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: the East Coast all the way out to the Rocky Mountains. Uh. Yeah, 197 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: that's the Eastern Interconnection. It's a large part of the nation. 198 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 1: And then you've got the Western Interconnection, which is the 199 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountains to the Pacific. And then you've got the 200 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: Texas Interconnected System which covers Texas big shock there. So uh, 201 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in that electricity sense either, So 202 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to, but yes, you've got these three 203 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 1: larger interconnected grids that collectively make the power grid of 204 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: the United States. There are two related concepts when it 205 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: comes to power grids that we want to talk about. 206 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: There's reliability and there's resiliency. So reliability is how consistent 207 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: is that power grid? How frequently are there any interruptions 208 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: in power? The fewer the more reliable. Obviously, so if 209 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,599 Speaker 1: you're having freak went brown outs, that's not reliable. No, 210 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: it's not reliable. It would be rough to UH, and 211 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: obviously we have had periods of that in the history 212 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: of the United States and in different regions. Then there's resiliency, 213 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,880 Speaker 1: which refers to the power grid's ability to withstand adverse 214 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: effects like solar flare activity or severe weather or you know, 215 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: an apocalyptic scenario like if an e MP went off. 216 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: By the way, if an e MP goes off, electromagnetic pulse, 217 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: that's what that stands for. UH, there's not I don't 218 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: think there's a power grid on the world that is 219 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: resilient enough to withstand a truly powerful electromagnetic pulse. UM. 220 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: Also the interesting thing with those is that you know, 221 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: you hear about these, like especially in movies. You'll see UH, 222 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: like Oceans eleven uses an e MP at one point 223 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: to knock out the security system of casino, because if 224 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna do it, this will go a whole long. 225 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 1: Um yeh, then they get back outside somehow. Yeah. Yeah, 226 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: at any well, you know, hey, it's a movie. Um. 227 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: But at any rate, the the e MPs, depending upon 228 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: how powerful they are, they and how close you are 229 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 1: to the pulse. Uh, that can affect all sorts of 230 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: levels of electronics, although generally speaking, the larger the system, 231 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: the more vulnerable it is, because the more more likely 232 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 1: it will have current running through it as a result 233 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: of this electromagnetic pulse. It's the same principle that's affecting 234 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: the transformers. It's just imagine that it's this enormous pulse 235 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: that isn't a controlled element of the power grid. So uh, 236 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: most e mp s would probably affect large systems like 237 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: the power grid, but leave smaller stuff like The less 238 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: complicated and smaller it is, the less likely it's going 239 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: to be directly affected by the MP's. Yeah, so your 240 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: battery operated stuff might work for a while at least 241 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: until the batteries run out, even in the face of 242 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: an MP, unless you happy to be really close to 243 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: where the pulse goes off. Alright, so resiliency and reliability 244 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: to very important concepts. I read a report and boy 245 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: was this sort of a report hard. It was a 246 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: report card. Yeah, The American Society of Civil Engineers released 247 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: a report card that grade of the United States on 248 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: various elements of its infrastructure. And this came out in 249 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: two thousand thirteen. The whole thing is available online. It's 250 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: a very interactive site that will depress you if you 251 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: live in the United States because overall US got a 252 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: D plus and that was for everything. That included things 253 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: like not just electricity and energy, but drinking water, bridges, damns, 254 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: hazardous waste handling, and aviation were also in there. Um, 255 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: none of the grades were great. So what's are like 256 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: gym class grade that's waiting it up? Oh right, Um, yeah, 257 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: some of them are a little better than others. Actually, 258 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: D plus being the the average the g p A. 259 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: That's also what we got for energy. So it's still 260 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: a failing grade, but it's one of the higher ones. 261 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: I mean, like, it's not a D like are I think? 262 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: I think bridges got a D? So like, so you're 263 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: telling me, is I really need to charge my cell 264 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: phone before the zombies attack and you really need to 265 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: make sure your your your commute home doesn't go over bridges. Um. Yeah, 266 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: they also, by the way, graded individual states. Not every 267 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 1: state got a grade, but Georgia did. We gotta ce. 268 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: Oh so that's better than average. Yeah, we we it's 269 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: better than the average score for the United States. By 270 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: the way, in case you are unfamiliar with this grading score, 271 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: the scale of grading, Uh, the school's not used that anymore, 272 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: not not not universally, and we have listeners from all 273 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: over the world. So this would be a grade system 274 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: that typically goes A, B and C would be the 275 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: passing grades see being average, B being good, and A 276 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: being superior. Then you have D, which is technically a 277 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: failing grade, and you've got plus and minus as well. 278 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: So on the highside, D plus would be oh, you 279 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: almost passed, but you didn't. Uh. I don't know if 280 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: anyone who has ever used E, but F means fail. 281 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: I thought a D was just a shameful passing grade. 282 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: I always thought of C as well, maybe, but I 283 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: always thought C was passing like C minus was the 284 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: for me, the threshold of passing. Essentially, that was the 285 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: equivalent if you looked at it percentiles A seventy folks 286 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: right in and let us know what you think about 287 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: D S. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a failing grade, 288 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. Uh F is outright fail 289 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: D is like on the cusp um. So maybe I 290 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: guess if you're a glass half full kind of guy, 291 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: you might say that D is a passing grade D 292 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: plus for energy. Energy, by the way, was not just 293 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: the power grid. It was all the elements of energy 294 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: in the United States, but they did focus quite a 295 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: bit on the power grid. They reported the aging infrastructure 296 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: of the power grid as a huge problem, some of 297 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: it again dating all the way back to the late 298 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, so it's pretty old um. And they also 299 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: said that they these older facilities and potucular are they're 300 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: prone for failure for things like just the fact that 301 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: it's such an aging infrastructure. They're not very good at 302 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: handling uh adverse conditions like weather events or solar flares, 303 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. And they said that the significant 304 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: power outages in general are on the rise. They said 305 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: there were seventy six recorded significant power outages. They didn't 306 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: define what significant means in the stuff I was reading, 307 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: so I'm not sure exactly what that refers to, but 308 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: seventy six of them in two thousand seven and three 309 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: hundred seven of them in two thousand eleven. So it's 310 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: a problem that is getting worse. So that's that's an issue. 311 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: But they also had some less awful news in it. 312 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: So they said that the United States is having a 313 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: very slow growth in population in general, the rate of 314 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: increases is fairly low when it comes to the need 315 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: for electricity. So, in other words, our population isn't growing 316 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: so quickly that our need for electricity is outpacing our 317 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: ability to generate electricity, and in fact, there probably won't 318 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: be a significant issue until around And that's that's saying 319 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: that we don't we haven't invested in our ability to 320 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: generate electricity. They of course very strongly advocate that we 321 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: should be investing in that, both in the the power 322 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,479 Speaker 1: generation or the electricity generation and the transmission of electricity. 323 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's look at one particular type of 324 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: threat to our energy infrastructure. How about a cyber attack. Yeah, 325 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: we've talked about this on tech stuff quite a few times. Uh, 326 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: I mean, could foreign hackers just shut down the United 327 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: States with some with some smart malicious computer people, probably 328 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: not the United States, but certainly elements within the United 329 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: States very targeted ones. Yes, because this is not a 330 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: surprise we have discovered, we being people in the United States, 331 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: not myself in particular, UM that there are elements of code, 332 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: malicious code within several different facilities throughout the United States, 333 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 1: within our our power grid infrastructure. UM A lot a 334 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: lot of them originating from China, some from Russia. But 335 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: there are elements of code that clearly have been planted there, 336 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: possibly as a way to weed out vulnerabilities and uh, 337 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: you know, in the effort to exploit them in some 338 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: potential future. So it's not necessarily the case that these 339 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: are all going to shut off on the same day. 340 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: In fact, that's probably not going to happen. And it's 341 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 1: largely because of what I talked about earlier, the fact 342 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 1: that the power grid is actually made up of all 343 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: this diverse you know, hardware and software run by different organizations. 344 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: It means that there's not a unified means of shutting 345 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: everything down, so any attacks would probably be very specific 346 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: and people know to look out for this stuff now. 347 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,719 Speaker 1: So there's there's there might be individual utilities that are 348 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: lagging behind because they're not paying enough attention to this problem. 349 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,400 Speaker 1: But it's not a universal issue. So in other words, 350 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: it's kind of patchwork, right. You You may be that 351 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: the target you've selected is really vulnerable, but also means 352 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: that the effects are going to be localized to that area. 353 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,119 Speaker 1: You can't. You can't say like, oh, he has a 354 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: big red switch and when we push it that lights 355 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: go out. It's not gonna be like that. Also, I 356 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: don't know why I would, Well, they're actually Austrian, but 357 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 1: it is just because that's where I go for the 358 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: my mad scientist. It is scent to our German or 359 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: Austrian listeners. No, or to our Russian ones who who 360 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: really agree that the Russian mad scientists is the best one. 361 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: I mean, there's they all have their charms, is what 362 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: I'm getting at. Well, you know, one possibility that strikes 363 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: me is you're saying that a cyber attack could potentially 364 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: target a localized facility or small subsection of infrastructure, though 365 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: there's always the possibility that by doing so they could 366 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: trigger chains of larger events. Yes, and this is where 367 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: you have to start taking into consideration the specific conditions 368 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: around that localized area. So is this is scenario people 369 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: have actually imagined, like a sort of a cascading series 370 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: of problems that get bigger and bigger with infrastructure failure. 371 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: It absolutely is. Yeah. There have been studies that have 372 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: looked at specific UM systems that have centralized critical nodes, 373 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: which would be very much similar to United States power grid, 374 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: and if you were to target one of those important 375 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: critical nodes and take it down, there's the potential to 376 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: have this cascading domino effect where it would the the 377 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: loss of that part of the power grid would put 378 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: such a burden on the surrounding ones that they too 379 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: could fail, which could potentially cause others to fail as well. 380 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: It might not be a nationwide outage, but it might 381 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: be much more significant than that one utility going down. 382 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: UM for that to happen, generally speaking, you have to 383 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: have other elements that are at play. It's it's generally 384 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: understood or believe that if it's an average day that 385 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: probably it would just be the localized utility that was affected, 386 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: but if other issues, like if it was at a 387 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 1: peak demand when other neighboring utilities were working overtime to 388 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: supply power, because just because the way that particular day 389 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: is unfolding, then you might have a different situation on 390 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: your hands. I have to imagine somebody has tried to 391 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: simulate this. There have been a lot of interesting simulations 392 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: that I looked in to, most of which we're saying, hey, 393 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: it's not as bad as we think unless and it's 394 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: always that unless you like you're like, I guess, I 395 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: guess if if things are aligned just right or just 396 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: really really wrong, then it could be really bad. In fact, 397 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: in August two thousand thirteen, there was an article in 398 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: Nature of Physics where scientists from the United States and 399 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: Israel asserted that a cascading failure in the system, it 400 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: depends on those few critical elements, but they pretty much 401 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: guarantee that at some point it will happen. And this, 402 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: by the way, it doesn't necessarily mean that there was 403 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: an attack. I mean, an attack could be the precipitating 404 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: event that causes us. But it could just be a failure. 405 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: It could be a you know, a particular power plant 406 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: in a grid fails and it and conditions just happened 407 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 1: to be right for other facilities to fail as a 408 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,160 Speaker 1: result of that, and then you have a rolling blackout 409 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: that could be pretty huge um or it could be 410 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 1: a failure due to some other event, like a solar flare, 411 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: which causes a similar event to an e MP going off. 412 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: It's not good. Well, maybe we should get back into 413 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: the possibility of an MP solar flare, you know, any 414 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: one of these high energy events that can sort of 415 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: fry the components of our electricity infrastructure. Yeah, this is 416 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: super bad news. Like, this is stuff where it's not 417 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: just that it shuts down the power, it does damage 418 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: to the infrastructure. Uh. And again, one of the other 419 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: issues about this complexity we were talking about is you 420 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 1: don't always necessarily know where the problem is ultimately or 421 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: which elements of your infrastructure are the ones that were 422 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: damaged by this activity. So if it's a significant solar 423 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: flare that shuts down power in an area, you may 424 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: have to do some really extensive testing to figure out 425 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: which elements need to be repaired or replaced. In the meantime, 426 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,479 Speaker 1: you've got people who are without power. Not only are 427 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: they without power, that a lot of them are going 428 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: to be without any means of receiving communication to hear 429 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: what the status is. And the longer that goes, the 430 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: worst things are going to get right. Like like people, 431 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: some people will react all right, you know, they might 432 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: hunker down or whatever. Some people might panic. UH. You 433 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: also have other elements at play that are going to continue, 434 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: whether you've been able to communicate or not, things like 435 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: hospitals having to treat patients. I mean, there are some 436 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: major issues that have to be addressed, and meanwhile you're 437 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: scrambling to try and fix a broken system and you 438 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know where the problem is. That's the real 439 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: danger with these these UH events that would overload a 440 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: power of grid by putting a huge amount of electricity 441 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: through a system that wasn't prepared to handle it. UM 442 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: And there's not a whole lot you can do to 443 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 1: prevent that. I mean, like the these are events that 444 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: are outside of our control. The best you can do 445 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: is is make your system as robust as possible so 446 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: that it can resist electromagnetic interference. But that actually involved 447 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, I mean really mostly it involves separating 448 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: UH elements out into micro grids. That's one of the 449 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: things we could do is instead of having these giant 450 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: interconnected power grids, UH concentrate and create an infrastructure that 451 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 1: has more micro grids that are only serving a small region. 452 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: They can be interconnected with other systems still, but they're 453 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: not dependent upon them. They're not as interconnected as the 454 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: current systems are. That way, if a local event knocks 455 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: out a few systems, they are not going to pull 456 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: down surrounding neighboring systems. In this cascading effect, it isolates 457 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: the problem, which means that you can devote more attention 458 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: to solving a localized issue than you would if it 459 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: were a general nationwide problem. A nationwide blackout would be catastrophic. 460 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: Like you want to talk about post apocalyptic. Sure, you 461 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: might argue that it's not an apocalypse, but a nationwide 462 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: blackout would cause enormous problems. Well, yeah, we can, I 463 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: guess talk more about the projected consequences of that in 464 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 1: a bit. But how about the zombie attack scenario? People 465 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 1: always want to know about this. I have to kind 466 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: of remind people sometimes that like, that's not going to 467 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: happen because zombies are sort of physically impossible. But you 468 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: could have something like a zombie sort of problem. You 469 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: could just basically have a pandemic, really really bad uh 470 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 1: infection that spreads throughout the population. So in this case, 471 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: we're looking at a snail where it's not necessarily physical 472 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: damage to the infrastructure, right, It's it's a it's a 473 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: dramatic reduction and human population where you just don't have 474 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: the people to run the systems anymore. Right. So, so 475 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: let's say that you've got um really terrible conditions where 476 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: the people who would be running the power plants and 477 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: the various utilities mostly have been wiped out, so there 478 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: are very few of them left um, along with giant 479 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: swaths of the population in general. So how long would 480 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: you have electricity? You are one of the lucky survivors 481 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: the zombie apocalypse. Yeah, Rick Grimes has not made it 482 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 1: over to your house yet, so you're still on your own. 483 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: How long could you expect to continue to have electricity? Well, 484 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: this largely depends upon what style of power plant is 485 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: providing electricity to your home and whether or not your 486 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: home is on the grid. Now I'm assuming your home 487 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: is on the grid. If you have managed to create 488 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: and off the grid power scenario, you are in way 489 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: better shape as far as how long your electricity is 490 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: gonna last, but at least for the short term. But 491 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: let's say that you are connected to the grid. Well, 492 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: if you are getting your electricity from a coal fired 493 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: power plant, which by the way, makes up the vast 494 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: majority of power plants in the United States, more than 495 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: six I believe our coal power plants. Uh, you would 496 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 1: probably have electricity for the event has happened people have 497 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: been wiped out for maybe twelve to eighteen hours after 498 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: that event, you would have electricity. That's that's about how 499 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: long the coal firing power plants would probably operate at 500 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: their best before tripping, before shutting down automatically. Uh, that's no, 501 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: And that's because there's no there are no humans there 502 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: to keep the operation moving. Because even with automation, there 503 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: are things that require human attention. An alarm will go 504 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: off and you'll look, and it may not be that 505 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 1: it's like a catastrophic failure. It could be something like 506 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: you need to vent some ash out of the system, 507 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: and if you don't do it, then ah, it'll trip. 508 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: It'll say, all right, well, this will get to unsafe levels, 509 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: so we're shutting down. Um, and it's an adult. Yeah, 510 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: And all it would take is to vent it. It's 511 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: not a it's not otherwise a huge deal. It's not 512 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: like it's leading to a astrophic failure. But it's one 513 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: of those systems that's put in place for safety that 514 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: if it's not monitored and acted upon, the plant will 515 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: shut off. We need to get some robots in those plans. Yeah, 516 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: and well, there's actually been some people who have suggested 517 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: that if this were an event where it was more gradual, 518 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: like it's not a sudden thing where humanity disappears. If 519 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: it were more gradual, then you might be able to 520 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: alter the system so that some alerts don't trigger an 521 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 1: automatic shutdown anymore. Because you prioritize what what is the 522 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: most important of the alerts and which ones can we 523 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: absolutely not ignore and we have to respond to anything else. 524 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: The power plant just keeps on going until it can't 525 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: go anymore. Okay, So is natural gas is going to 526 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: be pretty much along the same lines as coal kind 527 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: of um so, Cole. Here's the other issue with coal. 528 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: You only have a certain amount of coal stored ready 529 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: to go, and once that's gone, if you don't have 530 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,840 Speaker 1: people pushing bulldozers to push more coal into the system, 531 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: you're out of fuel. So even if somehow magically the 532 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 1: cold power plant works perfectly, you burn out of coal 533 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: within a day. Natural gas is a little better. Uh. 534 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: You will essentially continue to get natural gas to feed 535 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: into the power plant as long as the pressure inside 536 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: the pipelines remains constant. But that's a big if. I mean, 537 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: any any problem that would trigger one of those UH 538 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: systems to go into shut down mode would stop a 539 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: natural gas power plant from operating. So you might go 540 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: a couple of days maybe if everything went well, like 541 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: if there were no if nothing was messing with the 542 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: lines and no errors happened, So one of three days, 543 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: let's say. You know what, Joe, it turns out we 544 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: got a lot to say. We recorded this full episode 545 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: and it turned out to be a super long one. 546 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: So we're going to end this part right yere. We'll 547 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: pick up again in our next episode to continue this 548 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 1: conversation because, um, we like talking about it is it's 549 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: a real nothing more fun than the end of the world. Yeah, 550 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, relax, right, that's the end is 551 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: not necessarily the end now and now it's hard to stop. Yes, 552 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: it's true when it's the end. Yeah, I um, I'm 553 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: going to start quoting your galaxy in a second, but no, guys, 554 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: if you have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff. 555 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: Whether it's a technology you want to hear more about 556 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: our personality, or maybe there's a guest you would likely 557 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: to have on the show. Maybe there's a guest host 558 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: you want to have. Come back to the show right 559 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,240 Speaker 1: and let me know. I'll make it happen. The dresses 560 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: tech stuff at how stuff works dot com or drop 561 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: me a line on Facebook, Twitter or Tumbler to handle 562 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: there is tech stuff hs W. We will return on 563 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: our next episode to conclude this topic, and I'll talk 564 00:32:52,800 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: to you guys again really soon for more on this 565 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Doesn't how stuff works dot 566 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: com