WEBVTT - Babies in Space? Inconceivable! (Part 1) 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.240 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:15.480 Forward Thinking. Heyl everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:18.000 podcast that looks at the future and says, in my arms, 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.600 why don't you stay. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren, and 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.960 I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're gonna talk about you know, 0:00:25.079 --> 0:00:27.280 we we talked about space travel quite a bit in 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.440 this show. Obviously, We've got lots of different episodes. We've 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.240 talked about things like colonization or you know, just even 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:38.320 initial plans to send some intrepid adventurers off to Mars 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:41.599 and what that would mean. One of the things that 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.279 we haven't really talked about is this idea of if 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:49.239 we are going to eventually grow beyond our planet and 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.840 colonize other places. Presumably unless we find some magic way 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:58.240 of traveling, getting from Earth to some other habitable place 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.680 could take a very long time, like multiple generations of people, right, 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.679 and unless we have some way of freezing everybody that's 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.280 actually going to work and not kill them. That means 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.360 people are going to be living out their lives on 0:01:10.480 --> 0:01:13.479 some form of spacecraft on their way to a destination. 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.080 And if you're going to have a generational thing happen. 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.480 That means eventually people are gonna be hooking up and 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.600 having babies. We're talking about making new humans. That's right, 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:29.200 Space Odyssey Space. I think it's exactly like the No, no, 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.040 it's not. I don't think you first get an obelisk 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.759 um No. Well, we should clarify at the beginning. So 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.640 are we aware that humans have ever been in space 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:46.640 in a family way? The official statement is that NASA 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:52.560 stresses that that astronauts maintain a certain level of professionalism. So, 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.480 in other words, the official comment is there's nothing to 0:01:55.560 --> 0:02:00.520 comment on. There's been a lot of um can jecture, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.720 but no direct evidence. There was a hoax document going 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.480 around the internet a while back about NASA testing sex 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.799 in space, and I think that was defunct. Was it 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.320 was it? I am actually unaware of this. Was it 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.040 done in a very straightforward way or was it actually 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.320 done kind of like a spoof? Was there any kind 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:22.480 of wink wink, nudge nudge kind of thing going I 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:24.600 don't know. I haven't read the document myself. I just 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.720 read about it. It was circulating on the internet a 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.120 long time ago, and uh, but I think it was 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:34.000 a little hoax, somebody was having a bit of fun. Um. Yeah, 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:36.920 as far as we know, there's no real way to 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.919 prove whether or not anybody's actually had sexual intercourse in space. 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:45.639 We think probably not, um, But we definitely know that 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.320 nobody has been pregnant in space or has had a 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.920 baby in space. Yes. And so here's the thing is 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.240 that this is such a complicated topic that we're going 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.640 to be tackling that we're actually going to use uh, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.880 you know, two episodes to real cover it because there 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.079 are there are lots of different factors you have to 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:07.320 take into consideration when it comes to the idea of 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:12.000 of of babies and space in multiple context right, So 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:13.640 we want to kind of split this up so we 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:19.640 can really handle both major categories thoroughly, right Sure. And 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.880 I think a good indication of how complex and kind 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:26.280 of weird and squidgy it gets, um is that I 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:29.400 can't actually recall any kind of science fiction stories that 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.880 deal with birth, with with reproduction in space in general. 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:34.800 And and this this might be just due to the 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.600 overall sexism of the industry that's more interested in dudes 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.880 than it is in ladies, um, and having more dude 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.560 characters than lady characters. Um, but I mean, you know, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.320 like I recall maybe in something like Highlands, the moon 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.320 is a harsh mistress. They're being mentioned of women having 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:51.840 some babies at some point, which is important because it's 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.600 a moon colony. But but I mean, other than like Prometheus, 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.280 I don't recall anyone ever being pregnant in a science 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.560 fiction movie. Well, I think you count alien in general. Well, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.920 in in whatever science fiction does deal with it, I 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.280 feel like it's often just taken for granted, like, oh, 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.640 we figured this out, this is taken care of. Often 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:16.160 in those same science fiction elements, they've solved a lot 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:17.680 of the problems that we're going to be talking about 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.160 in these upcoming up They're all walking around on their 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.280 spacecraft anyway, right, and there's never any indication that there's 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.040 harmful radiation that they have to worry about. So those 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:29.880 are those are actual, real problems that we have to consider. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:31.719 And here's the thing is that these are things we 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.039 do have to consider, and being able to figure out 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:39.400 these these problems before they manifest in real world tragedy 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.279 is difficult because how do you create a scientific test 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.400 for stuff that is ethical? I mean, these are this 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.039 is tough, tough topic, you know. Yeah, of course it's 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:53.200 not ethical to just like send some pregnant women up 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.680 there and see what happens, right, or even to fertilize 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.000 an egg. I mean, there's their ethical questions with that too. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.400 Of just the research hasn't really gotten far far long 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.360 enough yet for for humans to even be a consideration. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.240 We've I mean because we've had some some pregnant mammals 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.560 in space by mammals I mean like rats and mice, um. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:16.520 But but I don't think that according to what we read, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:20.680 we haven't seen any any evidence of their being conception 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:25.640 by mammals in space or of Yeah, so so we've 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.240 got you know, sending up an animal that is carrying 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.720 a fetus into space is one thing, and I mean 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:36.240 that obviously we would need to know about that as well. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.480 But if you're talking about colonization, I mean every single 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:45.360 uh part of going from a planet with earthly gravity 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.840 out into space and then traveling some distance for some 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.440 time in space, and then perhaps even landing on another planet. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.640 All of these things would play factors into any kind 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.599 of development. So there's lots of stuff we just don't know. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:02.760 Now what we do know is that we've got. We're 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.479 we're looking mainly at two main categories of issues that 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.760 we need to gather more information about in order to 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:15.320 start coming up with solutions to head off any potential problems. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.320 And in this episode we're specifically gonna look at radiation. 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:21.800 Oh yeah, I would seem that radiation and pregnancy don't 0:06:21.839 --> 0:06:25.000 mix well, not not in general. Now we should say 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.400 that on Earth, all of us experience radiation. We are 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:34.240 always a constant radiation and depending upon the kind of 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.800 stuff that is around you, you might get a little 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.479 bit more of a dose than someone else. So, for example, 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:41.880 if you happen to work in the United States Capital Building, 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.440 you're getting a little more radiation than someone who's living 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.479 in a wooden house. And that's because the granite that 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:52.359 actually makes up the Capital Building has trace amounts of 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.880 uranium in it, not enough for it to actually be 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.000 a danger, but enough of it to have a higher 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.880 background radiation than other place that might not have as 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.640 much uranium around it. Okay, so the average person, just 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.680 from natural exposure to the world around him or her, 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:15.320 gets about three and ten miller rim of radiation annually. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.280 So now we have to say what a miller rim 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:24.080 is so RIM stands for orang gin equivalent in Man, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.320 And it's really a measure of how much radiation gets 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.320 absorbed by a biological entity and how that affects that 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.480 biological entity. So it's not just the raw energy, but 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.800 it's sort of the effect. Yeah, right, And and this 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.720 kind of thing gets gets mixed up in the media 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.200 pretty often because there's actually three different measuring systems for radiation. 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.720 You've got how much material emits that's measured in carries 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:53.480 or beckerel, how much radiation energy will be absorbed by 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.360 any given mass, which is measured in a raid or gray, 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.000 and then this this ram that we're talking about, which 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.680 can also be measured in um millis siverts. Yeah, that 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.240 would be the sieverts. Siverts would be the main one. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.520 Rim is the main one. Millisieverts is usually what we 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:11.480 talked about, because that's it's in the milli severt range 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.200 usually for the actual amount of radiation that the average 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:19.560 person encounters, uh, you know, and it's a little bit 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:21.280 like it's a I think it's a hundred to one 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.520 milli rim to millie siverts, so it's three miller RIM's 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:28.320 being the average that a person would encounter in a 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.440 on Earth ends up being three point one millisieverts. So 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.120 that's how it It's nice that it is easy to 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:38.640 figure that out because you don't have to divide by 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.960 like one eighth or something, right, It's it's all basically 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:47.000 metric based. Yeah yeah, so yeah, exactly. It makes it 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.839 so much easier than having to convert inches to centimeters 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.280 or fair Knight disintegrate or something along those lines. So essentially, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:57.600 what you're using this force to kind of determine how 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:02.400 much are you, how much radiation are you encountering, and 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.400 at what point should you start to really be worried. Now, 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:10.800 the International Commission of Radiological Protection recommends that people limit 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:15.080 exposure to artificial sources of radiation, meaning man made sources 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:19.400 of radiation like additional above this exactly to one hundred 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.959 miller rim per year. But according to the Nuclear Regulatory 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:26.920 Commission of the United States, we tend to get about 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.040 three hundred and ten miller rim per year, so we 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.240 essentially we double the amount of miller rim radiation that 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.760 we're receiving on a yearly basis. However, a lot of 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.400 that comes from radioactive clown attacks. Just just so, Yeah, 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:44.040 some of it comes from things like glowing watch faces. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.559 You know, I'm not even joking with that. That really 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:52.280 is a source of radiation, very minor source of radiation. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.200 We're not talking something that's gonna you know, you put 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:56.760 the watch on and then all the fish in your 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:59.800 nearby river have three eyes and I'll turn into blinking. 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.840 But so the other thing to remember is that you know, 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:07.439 harmful doses of this tend to be pretty high. We're 0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:11.280 talking higher than ten rim and Mellie rim is one 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.240 one thousand of a rim, so you aren't even approaching 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:19.679 one rim. Even with this background radiation and the typical 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.200 radiation you would encounter from artificial sources, you're not getting 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:25.559 close to that. And you know we're also talking about 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:32.400 over the span of a year, not in one encounter, right, So, uh, 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.480 generally speaking, the amount of radiation we encounter here on 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:40.760 Earth tends to be pretty manageable. Also, we've evolved to 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:45.959 handle radiation. Our cells repair it themselves after being damaged 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.400 by radiation. So as long as you're not exposing yourself 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.280 to too much for your body to handle, you tend 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.840 to be all right. This this is dangerous radiation in 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:59.640 the sense that is ionizing, So too much exposure could 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.559 and create some damage on a deeper level, like we're 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.640 talking DNA level damage. But generally speaking, you're not going 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.720 to be in too much trouble, uh, in your typical 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.920 day to day experience. Some people, like medical professionals who 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.199 might have to work with things like cat skin machines 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.560 or X ray machines might have higher doses than others 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.560 and therefore could run some risks. But you know, like 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:28.000 I say, the typical experience is pretty it's pretty nominal. Okay, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:32.240 But let's talk about pregnancy specifically. Okay, what what's the 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:37.840 relationship the known relationship between um radiation and health effects 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:41.600 on a fetus or a pregnant mother. Well, in general, 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.840 h embryos tend to be pretty resilient to radiations. So 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.160 at least here, right, we're talking about the kind of 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:52.440 radiation we normally encounter. Yes, here will make a distinction 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.440 in a minute, sure, right, the precise numbers are in 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.840 some amount of dispute. Yeah, I think I think you 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.600 found ones that were a bit lower than than the 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:05.120 overall range that I saw. Specifically, the Health Physics Society 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.240 where the numbers they were citing were things like around 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.640 uh twenty rem. You would have to be an excess 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.240 of twenty rem to have danger to an embryo. UM. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:20.560 So if you're talking about that, that's twenty thousand millie 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.199 ram or uh two hundred mills sivert if you prefer 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.600 that that metric, and that's a lot. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.160 that's plenty um. I saw numbers from the CDC that 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.000 they gave a range rather than that kind of solid 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.760 number of more like five to fifty rem um. So 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.040 that's five thousand to five. Sorry, I'm really bad at 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:48.880 math uh mill ram. But and and with different ranges 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.840 as the embryo progresses through different stages of development. Um. 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:56.280 Of you know, the possibilities of of failure of the 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.400 embryota implant during the first couple of weeks would be 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.079 the main danger that you're looking at for for the 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.480 next month and a half, there's you know, possibilities of 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:10.120 malformations during organ development or something like that. And then 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:15.160 uh moving on to the first trimester, like potential for 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.320 for growth problems or brain or nerve damage. Um. However, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.839 once you get out of that first trimester development, the 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:25.480 fetus and the mother are going to go through basically 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.280 the same kind of danger processes from radiation. Right, So 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:31.640 in other words, the baby, the fetus, and the mother 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.199 are both equally resilient to radiation. So is it that 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.480 the main danger sort of the pronounced risk of radiation 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:45.000 is more weighted towards the beginning of the pregnancy. Okay, 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.120 And again it's one of those where it has to 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.480 be a significant amount of radiation for it to to 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:54.480 hit what is considered to be a danger. Keeping in 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.440 mind that these are all based probabilistically, right, These are 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.800 all based upon uh, statistically being dangerous, So there are 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:06.160 times when lower doses of radiation could result in problems 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.560 down the line. But you know, you're looking across vast 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.920 populations and big studies. These are these are the trends 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:16.560 that you see. Okay, So what kind of radiation dangers 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.720 are we actually looking at from being in space? Well, 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:21.800 they are a little different, you know, the ones that 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.840 we encounter here on Earth. Besides the background radiation might 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.200 be things like X rays or maybe occasionally gamma raise. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:31.840 But if you're going out into space, you've got some 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.680 some other types to worry about. There are charged particles 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.000 that are trapped in the magnetic field around Earth, so 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.480 around the ionosphere that can contain quite a bit of energy. 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.800 Those those you would not normally encounter the ionosphere as 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.680 it turns out, pretty far away from the surface of 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.720 the Earth because you've got the stratosphere and the troposphere 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.040 and the mesosphere in between the ionosphere and Earth. So 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:58.520 we don't tend to encounter those charged particles very often 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.600 unless we happen to be asked for not. Uh. There's 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:06.080 also particles that come from solar eruptions, so occasionally, uh, 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:08.120 there you might have a solar flare and a coronal 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:11.480 mass ejection from the Sun that can end up shooting 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:15.720 out these particles that are incredibly energetic. Those have the 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.560 potential to do some damage. And then you have cosmic rays. 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.160 I think this is the big one. Yeah, these could 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:25.200 be heavy ions. I mean much heavier than what you 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.480 would encounter on Earth as far as an ion's concern. 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.840 And these can carry massive amounts of energy. They can 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.440 travel near the speed of light, they can pass right 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.080 through matters, so they're very difficult to shield against unless 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:41.240 you have some sort of magnetic deflection shield because they 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:45.120 are affected by magnetic forces. In fact, if you happen 0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.320 to have be in space during a time where the 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.160 Sun is really active, you might have more particles to 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.560 worry about from the Sun, but you're probably gonna have 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.520 fewer cosmic rays interacting with you because the Sun will 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:00.080 actually deflect those rays from its own magnetic forces. But 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:01.880 you know, we know that once you go out into 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.480 space far enough, you are no longer within that protective 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:06.800 magnetic field that the Earth has. In fact, it's a 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.840 field that is really important to life here on Earth 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.160 and it's one that we've commented on that Mars does 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.440 not have. So that's another issue is that you know, 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.480 Mars would not have the protection that Earth has in 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:20.160 this case, or even something in Earth's low orbit like 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:24.000 the I S S is definitely within the magnetic sphere. Yeah, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.160 so you you know that definitely gets some protection there too. 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.440 If you're talking about deep space travel, then you suddenly 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.880 don't have that protection. Um. You know, these are these 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:36.840 are the kinds of particles moving at incredible speeds incredible 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.760 energy that could do huge amounts of damage on a 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:47.080 tiny molecular level, uh in in biological creatures, including messing 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.400 up the DNA of cells. And causing mutations that our 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.240 cells might not be able to recover from. Right, And 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:56.440 it's a really significant amount of radiation that you could 0:16:56.480 --> 0:17:00.680 receive on on one of these deep space sort of trips. Okay, 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:02.720 not that Mars is really deep space, but that's the 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.040 one that people have made out estimates for, especially when 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:10.000 people started talking about doing that ridiculous Mars one thing 0:17:10.119 --> 0:17:13.520 or something, they were still very skeptical about. Sure, but 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.359 you know, for for a hundred and eighty day ideally 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.480 timed Earth to Mars trip, the estimate is that you 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:23.240 would be exposed to some thirty three RAM. Yeah, that's 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.840 that's big, which is which is a bunch um. Several 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.159 space agencies have actually set a limit of how much 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.520 radiation from all this kind of stuff. It's it's recommended 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.560 for an astronaut to receive over the course of their 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:37.560 lifetime without unacceptable health risk. And that's about one DRAM. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:39.399 And keep in mind, of course, we're talking about a 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:43.000 hundred RAM over the lifetime of an astronaut. Now granted, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:48.280 hundred RAM over the probably the career lifetime of an astronaut. Uh, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:52.440 Still that's that's a lot of radiation. Um. Yeah, So 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.560 here's here's some questions like what would this radiation have, 0:17:57.040 --> 0:18:00.480 what what effect would it have upon someone who is pregnant, 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.280 And really the answer ultimately is we don't know for 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:07.480 sure because we can't we haven't been ethical to test 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.960 that it would be really bad. Uh So, one idea, 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.760 of course, is that it would just result in say 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:20.680 like embryo mortality or birth defects. The other idea is 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:26.320 that it would result in uh, various kinds of sterilization. 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:31.280 So if you have a male and a female, say traveling, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.240 and they decide, well, we're in the middle of a 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.719 space journey, we want to get pregnant now, um, they 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.159 might have trouble with that because the radiation might affect 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:44.600 the male sperm to begin with. There's also been the 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.520 suggestion that I read in several articles, um, that it 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:53.200 would be likely to sterilize a female embryo, so that say, 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:58.119 a female child conceived in space during the space journey 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.960 would have her eggs sterilized so that she couldn't have 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:06.040 children down to just the one generation. Okay, well, we 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:08.600 could think about this question in sort of the really 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.320 long term, the space colonization term, like we've been talking 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:15.639 about but sooner in the future. I think this is 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.040 going to come up in the context which we originally 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.159 mentioned it in one of our videos, which is that 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:24.000 are people going to be able to conceive children as 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.439 space tourists say, within the next few decades. I mean, 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.000 if you want to travel up to a you know, 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.640 a private space station or an orbiting spacecraft or something 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.000 like that, would it be safe to conceive a child 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.840 there or for a pregnant woman to make that journey. Uh. 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:43.400 And one of the big questions there is how much 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.320 exposure is too much? Like is it going to be 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.200 where just a few days up there is enough to 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.920 be a serious risk, or or would it need to 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.399 be really prolonged exposure? And those are some of the 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.159 most serious questions right now, and we certainly can are 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:04.240 those either. And also those questions are highly dependent upon 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:08.639 conditions in space at any given time. So for example, uh, 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.679 you know, we are not really good at predicting solar events, 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.840 right We were just not good at predicting when a 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.480 solar flare or coronal mass ejection will happen. We're better 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:22.560 at being able to at least detect and then predict 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:27.600 cosmic radiation, which is why it hasn't been as huge 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:30.399 a problem right now because again we've got a lot 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.280 of people who are at least somewhat protected by a 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.320 magnetic field, and also we get a little more advanced 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.719 warning we can maneuver so that we decrease the chances 0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:42.359 of any kind of UH interaction with cosmic radiation. But 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.920 we're not as good at the solar radiation. So it 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.880 sort of depends upon what's going on out there already, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:51.920 because it's not like we can just point to a 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:55.160 figure and say this is how much radiation is out 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:57.840 there in space all the time always, because there is 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.560 no such number. It all depends on lots of other variables. 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:06.040 There is, however, an an experiment underway to examine one 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.639 aspect of these effects. Some some researchers working with the 0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.920 Japan Areas Space Exploration Agency brought freeze dried mouse sperm 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.080 to the I s S in August. These samples are 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:18.800 going to hang out there for for three different periods 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:20.639 of time and then be brought back to Earth for 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.920 micro insemination, and that's when you UH inject a sperm 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.800 directly into an egg um and and the goal here 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.160 is to figure out the effect of that long term 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:36.000 or relatively long term, several periods of months, radiation on 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.960 fertility rates, on danny, damage on growth and birth rates 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.879 of those pieces. So yeah, so this is going to 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:46.880 be sort of that first step into learning what these 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:50.879 these uh, what the consequences could be obviously, I mean, 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:53.440 first step on a very long journey for us to 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:56.280 figure this out. Uh So yeah, I mean it's you know, 0:21:56.400 --> 0:21:58.280 it's kind of it's interesting that you bring that up 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.720 about the idea that space tourism is something that could conceivably, 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:08.480 for forgive the pun forgive the conceivably happen within a 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:12.400 couple of years to maybe a decade, depending upon how 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:16.240 long it takes to to build out the infrastructure, especially 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.680 if talking about something like an extended stay aboard a 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.159 private space station. That's going to take some time. But 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.560 it's something that could happen within our lifetimes. I'm not 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.320 sure that the research that is necessary to make sure 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.760 that everything is is safe and finding the best practices 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:38.040 for things like conceiving a baby in space are going 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:39.960 to be around at that same time. We're gonna see 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:44.520 our ability to do something uh come across faster than 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.960 our understanding of what all the consequences are, which is 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.119 always kind of terrifying, right, I mean, in any respect, 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.320 but when you're talking about human lives, obviously the scale 0:22:54.520 --> 0:22:58.960 is much larger than you know, other and other instances 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.400 of not really being or what the stuff you made 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:04.200 is going to do. Okay, Well, so we've established we 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.080 don't really know what the effects are, but the risks 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:10.240 are there and we should be we should be cautious 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:16.600 basically about the crossing pregnancy or conception and space. Um, so, 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:20.919 what can we do to offset these risks because I mean, 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:24.560 in the long term we're probably going to be facing 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:27.960 colonization efforts. In the short term, we know that somebody 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.480 is probably going to want to try this, sure, so 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.399 what can we do to make it safer? Well, I 0:23:34.440 --> 0:23:38.120