1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,039 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Great Polycules of History, your podcast 2 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: that's usually called cool pepolted cool stuff, but this week 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: I'm calling Great Polycules of History. I'm your host, Margaret Keljoy, 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: and with me today is Miriam Rochack, one of my 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: favorite guests of all time. Miriam, I'm good. I'm excited 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: to hear what sounds like some messy history. Yeay, I'm 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: kind of I'm mislit whatever. I'm just gonna go with it. Okay, 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: you haven't. You still haven't told me what we're recording 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: about it? Neither has s Okay, now you're lying. Now 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm now our audi. Do you want to start over? 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: I tried very hard to not tell Miriam what this 12 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: episode was about. Anyway, I'll just so, Miriam. Is it 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 1: fun that every time I introduce you, I do so 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: by saying Miriam and the rest of her crew once 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: stole a tall ship and sailed off without their bosses 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: permission because they weren't getting paid. Oh yeah, it's that's 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: slightly inaccurate. We didn't sail off without the boss's permission. 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: We just started operating the boat on our own terms 19 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: and getting paid in cash for it without involving the 20 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: owners of the boat. But yeah, okay, okay, So Miriam 21 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: wants to stole a tall ship, sailed it to a 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 1: different continent and interrupted the transatlantic slave trade. That sounds 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: years ago. So and our producers Sophie, Hi, Sophie, how 24 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: are you? First of all, when you don't want me 25 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: to tell Miriam something? You say, hey, don't tell Miriam 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: something because I'm gonna blab to my friend right away. 27 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: And I'm terrible at lying solid of Miriam. Okay here, 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: I'm remember a light of Beriam. So the reason that 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: this was so hard for me to keep the secret 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: is that Miriam is one of my main friends that 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: I like send signal messages to throughout the week as 32 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 1: I do research, like tittering about this or that great 33 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: lesbian and history are, who are whatever? Like the stuff 34 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: that I don't even necessarily include in the podcast. I 35 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: just get really excited about. I did enjoy being there 36 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: live for your disappointment in last week's Last Week's Hero 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: when you discovered that he was in fact terrible to 38 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: his wife. Yeah, didn't anyway, So it was particularly hard. 39 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: It was a struggle to not so what did we learn? 40 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: What we're talking about it. From this experience, Magpie, don't 41 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: trust people. If you need me to lie to somebody, 42 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: tell me to lie. I wouldn't tell you to lie. 43 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: I just would have told you to note on your 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: behalf if you asked me too, I appreciate it. If 45 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: the if the cops come, Okay, so all right. What 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: I have learned is to always assume that people want 47 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: to talk to me about what you're about to tell us. 48 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about. Yeah, okay, So Ian as 49 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: our audio engineer, and our music was written for us 50 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: by one woman, high Ian Miriam. Have you ever heard 51 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: about pirates pi rits. It looks like it's pronounced oh yeah, 52 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: yeah no, Um. It took me a while. I looked 53 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: up a bunch of videos, but how to pronounce it? 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: It's actually pirate. I like when they spell it with 55 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: a y. That is actually the main source that. Yeah. 56 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about the golden age of piracy, 57 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: which is means that this is another moral complexity week. 58 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: They mostly weren't good people, no, not not particularly. They're 59 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: um even the best of them could probably appear on 60 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: different shows on this network, Like I gotta warn you, 61 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: Um you know, as you know, I had a tall 62 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: ship period of my career. During that time, the Pirates 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: of the Caribbean movies, like the first one was out, 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: they were more of them were coming out. The I'm 65 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: on a Boat song came out. During this time. It 66 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: was it was time to be I have heard of 67 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: pop culture from approximately fifteen years ago. Ow cool, I 68 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: know what you put in the box. Anyway, The truth 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: is I burned out hard on pirates, but that was 70 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: about a decade ago, so I'm probably ready to give 71 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: pirates another try. Yeah you know, I did used to 72 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: have to dress as a pirate at work, I'm sorry, 73 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: and then interact with the public. Festival, I attended a 74 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: pirate festival and do you know what band headlined that 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: pirate festival. It was Blue Oyster Cult. And I have 76 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: no idea why, but it fucking ruled. I think somebody, 77 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,280 Speaker 1: I think somebody who was booking like thought that they 78 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,159 Speaker 1: were a seafood themed band or something, but they absolutely 79 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: had lined a pirate festival. It fucking ruled. I think 80 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 1: it's because boomers like pirates and boomers like Blue Oyster 81 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: Cult could be I mean also like I also like 82 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: Blue Oyster Cult. Yeah, and I could feelings about pirates 83 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: songs by them, Well, mixed feelings is what we're going 84 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: to talk about today. Today we are going to deconstruct 85 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: the myth of the Golden Age pirates. We're going to 86 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: take a part of the idea that they were good, 87 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: noble rebels because they weren't. We're going to talk about 88 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: how these days they're romanticized for all the wrong reasons. 89 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 1: But we're also going to talk about what's undeniably interesting 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: about them and why they hold onto our cultural attention 91 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: so much. And most importantly, we're gonna talk about the 92 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: stuff that simple, well, that's not the most important. We're 93 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: also gonna talk about the stff that they symbolize in 94 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: certain contexts. Most importantly, we're going to talk about literally 95 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: the only two Golden Age pirate women we know about, 96 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: a Bonnie and Mary Reid, who are maybe in a 97 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 1: polycuel with a snappy dresser. Oh, they absolutely were. That 98 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: is that. I will take no argument on that, but 99 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to gossip about it with you. Great. 100 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure that this podcast will talk about the non 101 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: Golden Age pirates in the future, too, many of whom 102 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: were like substantially more interesting for a ton of reasons. Obviously, 103 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: if for anyone who's interested in lady pirates, check out 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: our fairly recent episodes where we talk about Grace O'Malley, 105 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: the Irish pirate Queen. So, the Golden Age of piracy 106 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: lasted from about sixteen ninety to seventeen twenty five, which 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: is about thirty five years, which is not an incredibly 108 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: long period of time. The extra Golden Age the age 109 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: in which all of the pirates that we talk about 110 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: were active, which I'm going to call the platinum age, 111 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: because that's the only thing I'd come up with in 112 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: D and D that's worth more than gold. I guess 113 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: it could be the like diamond, I don't know, whatever, 114 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: I think we can call it the Pieces of eight Age. Okay, 115 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: the Pieces of eight Age is seventeen fourteen to seven 116 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: twenty two, which is only eight years. All of this 117 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: fucking culture is about something that lasted eight years, which 118 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: seems ridiculous until you remember that's twice as long as 119 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: the Confederacy. I really like that you are currently using 120 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: Confederacy as like a unit of short periods of time. Yeah, 121 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: the Confederacy lasted one person going to college. Ye a, 122 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: the time, yeah, longer than I went to college, but 123 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: the normal the normal college length. And you know when 124 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: you meet somebody who's like still incredibly stuck on those 125 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: four years of their life and they suck, Oh my god, 126 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: uh huh yep, I'm not gonna draw any conclusions. Yeah no, yeah, 127 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: they're literally just so. The pirates were like master's degree. Wait, no, 128 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: that's only two more years PhD, fast, fast PhD. They 129 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: quick doctors. I wouldn't trust them to do much surgery. 130 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: But there's two problems with pirate history. The first problem 131 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: is that everyone has really strong opinions about pirates and 132 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: wants to claim them and sort of put them into 133 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: this or that camp, so all the books are biased 134 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: to shit or wants to reject them. But everyone feels 135 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: really strongly about pirates and therefore lies. The other problem 136 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: is that everyone who talks about pirates is lying because 137 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: we don't know shit about them, you know how, like 138 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: most of what we know about the Norse gods, or 139 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: about half of what you know about the Norse gods 140 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: comes from this. Like Christian Icelandic writer who had been 141 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: in a Christian country for hundreds of years, I like 142 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: you that you say that as though I naturally would 143 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: know the provenance of nor Smiths. But I do know 144 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: that most of what we know about Pirates came from 145 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: a book that was probably written by the guy who 146 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: wrote Robinson Crusoe, and that he made it the fuck up. Well, 147 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: it actually probably wasn't written by him. We're going to 148 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: get to that. Oh really, okay, I'm learning already, okay, 149 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: but it was written by explain this stuff to me. 150 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: I am, I am, I am. Hey, I once went 151 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 1: on a tall ship. You were sailing it. Yeah, So, okay, 152 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: half of what we know about the Norse gods comes 153 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: from this Icelandic Christian named Snorri, who is legitimately a historian. 154 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: And I don't think he like totally lied, but it's 155 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: why I think it's why all the like Norse Smiths 156 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: sound like Christian Smith's retold you know anyway, Okay, as 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: we mentioned, the other problem is that a professional novelist 158 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: who wrote pop history wrote half of what we know 159 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: about pirates. And you should never trust a novelist who 160 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: tries to tell you history. That's that's my statement right 161 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: out the gate. Okay. So there is this British guy. 162 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: I go to lead with that as the reason not 163 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: to trust him. But his pen name is Captain Charles Johnson. 164 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: He was almost certainly not a captain, but throw on 165 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: that title and you'll sell more books. In sevent twenty 166 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,960 Speaker 1: four he comes out with a bestseller with a sick title, 167 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: A general history of the robberies and murders of the 168 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: most notorious Pirates. Those were the fucking days when you're like, 169 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: title alone had to like, would have taken up an 170 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: entire tweet. Yeah, totally, Like if you need a fucking 171 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: semicolon in your title, there isn't one in this, but 172 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: you can imagine it, you know. And very importantly, this 173 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: is pirates with a why God? Yes, yeah, And this 174 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: is a companion of basically all the Pirates that people 175 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: talk about now. And this was written with a incredible 176 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: amount of artistic license. It sells like crazy. It's the 177 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: Eat Pray Love of the seventeen twenties. It starts this 178 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: wave of people publishing They're like great highwaymen, great prostitutes, 179 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: like like all these other books that didn't do as well, 180 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: although I would happily read either of those other books. 181 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: So Eat Pray Love is doing really well in the 182 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: seventeen twenties. Within two years it's on its fourth edition. 183 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: So he's like, hey, why not add more stuff, including, 184 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: at this point, entirely making things up whole cloth. And 185 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: we know this because he made up an entire pirate 186 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: whole cloth named Captain Mission, who's sort of a Republican 187 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 1: anti pirate who flies a white flag with the word 188 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: liberty on it, who's a dedicated abolitionist, and is clearly 189 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: just a representation of the author's political opinions. At least 190 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: that's it's kind of fun, though, I know, I mean 191 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: it insert a character who, yeah, espouses all your ideals. Wait, 192 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: can we go back for a second, though, Why do 193 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: I think that it was okay great in nineteen thirty two. 194 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: It is like two hundred years later. There's this guy 195 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: who's like, you know what this writing is like Daniel Dafoe. 196 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 1: I think Daniel Dafoe wrote it, And he did a 197 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: lot of research. He like presented a lot of evidence 198 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: that the writing was very much like Niel Dafoe's in 199 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: some ways and then completely unlike it in other ways. 200 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: And this convinced like all the libraries to start cataloging 201 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: it under Daniel Dafoe, and it was like, but the 202 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: thing is is, at this point it was like trendy 203 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: to claim books were written by Daniel Dafoe. People he 204 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 1: wrote a ton, right, he properly like a couple, like 205 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 1: a couple decades after his death, like the sixteen nineties. 206 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: He's been dead for like sixty years. They're like, we 207 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: know of one hundred and one books this motherfucker wrote, 208 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: which is a lot of fucking books. Off the top 209 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: of my head, Michael Morecock is the only guy I 210 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: know it was written more than that. I'm sure there's more, 211 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: but that's who I know writing more one hundred books, 212 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: a lot of fucking books. By nineteen seventy, people were 213 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: attributing five hundred and seventy books to Daniel Dafoe just 214 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: because they were like, well, this guy was around, he 215 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: was prolific, he wrote everything. Basically, all anonymous texts from 216 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: the early eighteenth century got attributed to Daniel Dafoe at 217 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: some point because Okay, I think I literally have a 218 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: copy of that book him as the author. Fuck yeah, Okay, 219 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,959 Speaker 1: So so basically, like this guy writes like Daniel Dafoe 220 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: seems to have practically meant while this guy writes like 221 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: an early eighteenth century Englishman, right, Okay, so anyway, Also, 222 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: I didn't do a ton of research about Daniel Dafoe, 223 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: but he did add the duh to his name to 224 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,839 Speaker 1: sound more proper. He was originally Daniel Foe, which is 225 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: a more hard name. He did an extra syllable in 226 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: that name, you know, competing with all the long titles. 227 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: I know, but he didn't even put his name on 228 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: half the books, or maybe put other people's names for 229 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: no reason. Yeah, totally, It's more likely that it was 230 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: written by this this media guy, um like a guy 231 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: who ran a press and then did a lot of 232 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: journalism and shit, but very like biased journalism that not 233 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: necessarily a bad way. It was all, well, it's all 234 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: journalism now too. But this guy named Nathaniel Missed who 235 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: had a sick fucking name that is such a cool name. 236 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: That would be a great pirate name. It would be 237 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: a great pirate name. And he was like a sailor 238 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: and Indian ocean and shit. I didn't write this part 239 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: into the script, so I'm riffing it. But from what 240 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: I remember from Bratt reading him, and he ran a 241 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: printing shop, that did a bunch of political journalism, so 242 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: much to the point that he spent a couple of 243 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: years in jail and eventually had to flee to France 244 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: and ship because he was one of those guys who 245 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: wanted the other Kings to be in charge instead of 246 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: the other Kings, the fucking Brits. There is a chance 247 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: that he hired Dafoe because he occasionally hired Dafoe to 248 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: write anonymously for his press, But I think it's the 249 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: whole thing was like crafted to be a media bestseller 250 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: and was written probably by the guy who ran the press. 251 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: He might have gotten some help from some people. I 252 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: don't know Dafoema had something to do with it, It's 253 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: not impossible, but whatever. The important thing here's the Book 254 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: of Lies, or it's a book of best guesses mixed 255 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: with outright lies, and it is the source for almost 256 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: everything that we know about pirates. There's court records, and 257 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: there's occasional eyewitness accounts of memoirs from people who are 258 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: captured by pirates, but most of the mythology of pirates 259 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: stems from this book, which is why rather than having 260 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: this episode. Besides, when we get to the polyculem. Most 261 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 1: of this episode is not going to be like, here's 262 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: a story about individual pirates. It's going to be talking 263 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: about the golden age of piracy and what it means 264 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: for the world, which is going to be fun. I 265 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: didn't make that sound fun. It's gonna be fun, motherfuckers, 266 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: I believe you. Yeah, yeah, say things loudly, people will 267 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: all right. It all starts with this piece of shit 268 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: named Columbus. I hate that guy. I know, well, he's 269 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: kind of famous. He's so famous. There's a city in 270 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: Ohio named after him, which is weird when you think 271 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, yeah, they were going to rename that. 272 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: I feel like it's probably pretty low on the list 273 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: of priorities, but a bigger promise to deal with, right yea, Ohio? Yeah, 274 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: fair enough, although I'm probably as close to that horrible 275 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 1: train crashes as um Columbus is. But Christopher Columbus was 276 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: this Italian guy who wasn't Italian because Italy didn't fucking exist, 277 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: didn't speak Italian because Italian didn't fucking exist, And he 278 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: sailed under the flag of Spain, except he didn't because 279 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: Spain didn't fucking exist. Nothing that they tell you about 280 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: any of the ship is fucking true. Like, but people 281 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: didn't think the Earth was flat then either. Yeah, that's 282 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: the one that really bothers me. Yeah that yeah, so, 283 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: I mean okay, Spain in practical sense had existed very recently, 284 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: a couple decades, I think at this point, because the 285 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: two kingdoms Castile and Aragon had like gotten hitched or 286 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: their monarchs had. In fourteen ninety two, Columbus sailed under 287 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: the flag of Castile, the same year that Spain became 288 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: more officially Spain and immediately kicked out all the Jews 289 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: and Muslims. Good job, Spain. Fuck you. We're not going 290 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: to talk about Columbus much. He has no redeeming qualities. 291 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: He's a dick, and he's now in the bad place. 292 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: I recently rewatched The Good Place. It's pretty good, so good. 293 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: That's show is fucking great. You know, Columbus shows up 294 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: on an island called Hispaniola, it's not what it was 295 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: called before that. When he gets there, yeah, uh, Spain 296 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: is like hell yeah, our Italian guy called DIBs. So 297 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,919 Speaker 1: this place is ours to the whole Caribbean, and this 298 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 1: last for one hundred and thirty years. They don't respect Europe. 299 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: The Spain doesn't respect European peace treaties here. If you 300 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 1: show up, Spain is gonna fucking stomp you. They have 301 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: this line there is no peace beyond the line, or 302 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: it is their motto, with the line being the line 303 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 1: on the map, where they were like, sorry, we called 304 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: DIBs on all the It's it's cool when you have 305 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: a motto that requires a diagram to explain it. There 306 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: is no peace beyond the line. What are you talking about? Like, oh, sorry, yeah, totally, 307 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: And then they pull out a globe because it would 308 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: have been a globe, and then they m yeah, yeah. 309 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: Then they're like, see we made this line. Yeah, oh 310 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: finally I understand that sucks. Yeah, And so the European 311 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: powers they were like, but we want to go rob 312 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 1: enslave and colonize, but we can't because we can't set 313 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: up colonies. So what we're gonna do is rob the 314 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: shit out of the Spanish that I take no issue 315 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: with this, No, I actually honestly don't have a major 316 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 1: problem with this as a basic concept. Their motive is 317 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: not pure, but whatever, so they invent. But if colonizers 318 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: are going to rob other colonizers, that's sort of like 319 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: all right, yeah, yeah, So they do a bunch of 320 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: ocean robbery, which unfortunately there's no word for except privateering, 321 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: because they had the king's permission of this or that 322 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: king or queen or whatever, so it's technically privateering. You 323 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: could argue about whether it counts as piracy. For the 324 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: most part. For the show, we're going to for this episode, 325 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: we're going to distinguish because I think this actually gets 326 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: to what's really interesting about the Golden Age piracy, which 327 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: we are not at is the difference between privateering, which 328 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,159 Speaker 1: is robbing people in the name of a king, and 329 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: then pirating, which is robbing people in the name of 330 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: yourself and your friends. So in fifteen twenty, the French 331 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: are like, all right, we're gonna go rob Spanish boats, 332 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: and they're the first ones to get in on it. 333 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: Within ten years, French privateers are sailing all the way 334 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: to the Caribbean. At first, they're just robbing the Spanish 335 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: as they come home, which just seems simpler, definitely easier. Yeah, 336 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: but it's probably easier for the Spanish to like respond 337 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: with more guns. The annoying thing about robbing people is 338 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: that like sometimes the people have guns also so they 339 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,400 Speaker 1: start going to the current Caribbean and robbing people there 340 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: and it's a really easy job. It's really easy life. 341 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: Everyone's really happy about the not the Spanish. So in 342 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: fifteen fifty the English get involved and they call their 343 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: guys the Sea Dogs. Shit, that is cool. I know, 344 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: I know, it's really annoying, and that's cool, but it 345 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: is another guy with a fucking sick name. Francis Drake 346 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: is the most famous of the Sea Dogs who because 347 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: I liked taliing episodes together, but he's not an important 348 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: part of this episode. He was involved in repelling the 349 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: Spanish armada that caused Spanish sailors to land on Ireland 350 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: as castaways, and then the Irish either killed them or 351 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: secreted them to safety. And that's all on the Grace 352 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: O'Malley episodes you can listen to if you want to 353 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: learn more about piracy in the English aisles. They probably 354 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: don't like being called the Englis shelves on the west 355 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: coast of that okay, around sixteen hundred. The Dutch, a 356 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: little bit late, are like, oh, robbing Spanish ships in 357 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: the Caribbean is easy and good, so they start doing 358 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,439 Speaker 1: it and they are enough to break Spanish power and 359 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: you get your first non Spanish colonies in the area. 360 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: Again completely lateral move, like I don't care more colonizers. Great, 361 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: But around this time you get something actually interesting. You 362 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: get the buccaneers and what's now Haiti on Hispaniola. And 363 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: I really like these early buccaneers, at least everything I've 364 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: found about them, have you, I don't know when they're 365 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: like land googles. Yeah. The version that I have been 366 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: taught in my in my own uh tall ship days 367 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: is that there was a community people who are basically 368 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: hanging out in what is now Haiti, and they were 369 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: smoking meat to preserve it and sailing and selling it 370 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: to other people who were sailing around so that they 371 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: would have like preserved meat that they could you know, 372 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: take with them across the ocean. And they were like 373 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: just chilling and doing that, and buccaneer came from like 374 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,120 Speaker 1: the local word for smoking meat, yep um. And then 375 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: at some point Spain was like, hey, fuck you and wait, no, yeah, 376 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: you're just getting ahead of the script. I'll excuse me 377 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: for knowing things about pirates. Yeah, okay, I kind of 378 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: set myself up for this is literally I don't know 379 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: what and who were the Buccaneers and why? Well, I'm 380 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: glad you asked Land displain it to me the first 381 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: bucket of years. They're not pirates. Land displain it to 382 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: mean is the best thing I've heard in a really 383 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: looked all right. Well, while everyone's having fun with this, 384 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: no one else you could have fun with is gambling. 385 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: I feel like that's the ad that ends up in 386 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 1: all the fucking podcasts lately. Oh yeah, that sounds about right. 387 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: There's it is. I just keep getting the gold one, 388 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: which would actually be appropriate for a pirate episode. Oh 389 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: my gosh, you're right. You're so right, and we are back. 390 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: And I can't believe you said that about behind the Bastards. 391 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: You know, I just say it like it is. Rob 392 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: I thought you and Robert were friends. Oh he thinks that. Hey, hey, 393 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: carry on, Okay, so the first Buccaneers. I feel bad. 394 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: I have to defend him. He's my partner, He's the best. 395 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: Any I really like Robert having said anything, I know it. 396 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, nope, that's it. Wasn't joke. 397 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: This is the whole thing about this podcast is that 398 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 1: we're all too earnest to take the bits too far 399 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: because we're like, no, wait, don't do crime unless you 400 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: really want to, or like whatever. The bit is so buccaneers, right, 401 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: not pirates at first. They don't live on the ocean, 402 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: they don't steal shit. They've got a lot of what 403 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: becomes the pirate culture. They're this like culture of rough 404 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: and tumble folks who gets called like half civilized or 405 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: half savage or whatever. A lot their outlaw frontiersmen who 406 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: travel with no fixed home um in what's now called Haiti, 407 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: and they build little sheds to hang their hammocks at 408 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: night when they need to. There's this quote, I found 409 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: men who could never live in the bosom of ordered society, 410 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: men who live for the moment, swaggerers, love of lovers 411 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: of glory. Men sometimes cruel, often generous, but cowards never 412 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 1: un Yeah, Like, I feel like that gets to some 413 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: of the core of what's that kind of interesting about 414 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: some of the stuff I'm gon be talking about. They're hunters. 415 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: They live off the wild boar and the wild cattle. 416 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: As far as I can tell, there's definitely cattle, and 417 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: I believe that they are wild from abandoned Spanish settlements 418 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: basically that have now gone wild. I do like how 419 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 1: anybody who was like not living in England, regularly attending 420 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: church and like you know, saying God Save the King 421 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: a lot was was considered like half civilized in all 422 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: of these writings, Like that probably just meant that these 423 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: guys like drank sometimes and didn't always wear shoes. I mean, 424 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. It could mean they were they were 425 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: doing crazier shit. It's hard to tell with these guys 426 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: because like a lot of this, Yeah, there's all this 427 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 1: like exaggerated stuff about you know, yeah, they didn't go 428 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: to church, so they're clearly wild animals or whatever. But 429 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of story raise about them, like 430 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: continuing to wear the pants that they do the slaughtering 431 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 1: and all the time, so they're just like walking around 432 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,239 Speaker 1: in blood pants. Oh these are crust punks. Yeah, No, 433 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: they're crust punks. And they travel with no fixed home 434 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: and they just lay their hammock where they want every night, 435 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: and they only gather to like they like gather where 436 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: the cattle are and ship the wild cattle. Like I 437 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: actually feel like these folks were a step more a 438 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: step culturally away from Western civilization. And yeah, that's that'll 439 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,479 Speaker 1: raise some eyebrows. Yeah, but at the same time a 440 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: lot of whenever it's like and they were all sturdy 441 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: and filthy and stinky. That's like a classic like Western 442 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: civilizations shouvinism thing to like make up as a lie 443 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: about people. Also, so it's like share the blood pants 444 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: thing I think is true, but I only like sixty 445 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 1: seventy per think is true. But like, also, maybe they 446 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: only had one pair of pants because I bet there 447 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 1: wasn't a thriving textile industry at that time. Yeah, you know, 448 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,920 Speaker 1: like clothes are expensive back then, you had to hand 449 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: make everything. Maybe check your pants privilege, I know European writers. 450 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: I mean also, they probably could have watched them. But 451 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,639 Speaker 1: it is a bunch of unmarried men except for the 452 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: way in which they're married. But I'm gonna get to 453 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: that in a second. Is it gay? You can't the 454 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: audience can't see the eyes I'm making Margaret's Margaret's eyebrows 455 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: just went on a journey. It's one of my favorite 456 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: podcasting things. This podcasts. Who's to forget that podcasting is 457 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: just audio? And then then you're like, shit, this would 458 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: be a great cue. I know. So this culture is 459 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: what the word buccaneer means for the first half of 460 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century. And as you as you point out, 461 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: buccaneer comes from the name for as best as I 462 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: can tell, the small meat smoking shocks that they built 463 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: to dry out the meat, a style that they learned 464 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: from the carib people who are there. And the word 465 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: is an Arowack word, which is a language family. Then 466 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,159 Speaker 1: case you had some weird belief, not you, I wouldn't 467 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: assume you have this, but audience a weird belief that 468 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: indigenous people of the Americas didn't get around. This language 469 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: family has speakers scattered throughout the Caribbean, Central and South America, 470 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: including like deep as fuck in the Amazon Rainforest, including 471 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: in Akra and what's now Brazil, which is where the 472 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: last episode took place. And I just again like weird connections. 473 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: So you got these narrod wells. Most of them are French, 474 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: there's some English, Dutch, and really lots of people arguing 475 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: about this part. Indigenous and African folks who are living 476 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: as buccaneers. Most started away started off as runaway bondsmen 477 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: like people skipping out an indentured servitude, runaway slaves. Potentially 478 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: that's like people like to argue about whether or not 479 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: account as a maroon society. Mutineers, deserters, ship direct people, 480 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: sex workers, political exiles, just radicals basically just like all 481 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: the cool people. Yeah, that's a fucking party as well. Yes, yeah, 482 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: And like a lot of it is like it was 483 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: all men except for all of these women who were 484 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: sex working, and you're like, are you just discluding them? 485 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,120 Speaker 1: Is this like a no true scotsman thing or you're like, 486 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: you know, it was all men, Like well, why there's 487 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: all these women around but they don't account. You could 488 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: sum up a lot of history with it was all 489 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,719 Speaker 1: men except for all the women. Yeah. Yeah, and it 490 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: was mostly men because of some stuff that will get 491 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: to at least there was a lot of men only sections. 492 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot a lot of people arguing about whether 493 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: constituted marine society. The buccaneers later are notoriously also slavers, 494 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: and I believe that many of these people probably also 495 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: like owned people and claimed own people, But that doesn't 496 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: actually preclude runaway slaves from having participated in I think 497 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: it would preclude it from counting as a true maroon society. 498 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: But anyway, everyone wants to prove that they're all like 499 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: either super cool woke rebels or that they're all like 500 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: slaving murderers. Um, so somewhere in the middle. I don't 501 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: know both extremes at the same time. Yeah, it's weird. 502 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: I don't feel the need to like figure out whether 503 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,959 Speaker 1: they were good or bad. No, that's not that's not 504 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: a thing I feel the need to do to like 505 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: people who died three hundred years ago. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, 506 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,719 Speaker 1: Like it's I don't know, it's a very weird impulse. Yeah. 507 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: So if you're living in a way that you don't 508 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: like on Haiti or at anywhere in the Caribbean, at 509 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: this point, the awareness that these people exist gives you 510 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: a kind of out. There's a place you can go. 511 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: You can go be a buccaneer and live in a 512 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: live on the coast in a hut and eat your 513 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: fill and call no man master. And they had a 514 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: codified system of bromance called the Materilio littage system, which 515 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: I do not know how to pronounce, in which two 516 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: bros would get married, live together, share their possessions and income, 517 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 1: name each other each other's air, et cetera, et cetera, 518 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: et cetera. Soay, no, definitely not. There's all these historians 519 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: are like, no, we can prove that they're heterosexual men. 520 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: And I am certain this was not always a sexual relationship. 521 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: I am certain it was very often a sexual relationship. 522 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: I mean, heterosexual marriage. It's not always a sexual relationship either, 523 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: Oh fucking right, okay, And like the main argument that 524 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: they were not homosexuals was historians being like, nah, because 525 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: they fucked ladies sometimes and sometimes they shared ladies to 526 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: fuck as if gay as this like immutable straighter than 527 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: you and your buddy having sex with the same person 528 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: at the same time, now I know. And it's just 529 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: like and I think this is like one of the 530 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: clearest examples of something that the historian Hugh who's come, 531 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: who's been on the podcast before, talks about about how, 532 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: you know, homosexuality and heterosexuality like didn't even get now 533 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: I'm putting words in his mouth. I'm just going to 534 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: go on my own, Rent, weren't even invented until the 535 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: end of the nineteenth century. Is like concepts, right, right, 536 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: And so there's these acts that people do, and some 537 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: people prefer certain acts and not other acts, right, But 538 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, yeah, I prefer that 539 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: one act, but I'll do this other act. And we 540 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: all know that's true, and you can look at any like, 541 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean, prison is the main example right now of 542 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: like where you know the concepts of heterosexuality and homosexuality 543 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: don't apply between men having sex or whatever, and it's 544 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: certain contexts, and you know, it's this is shit that's 545 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: been going on for fucking ever, but here they actually 546 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: get fucking married. Well, and you know, like you were saying, 547 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 1: there's there's different kinds of acts. Some of them are 548 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: legal and some of them are illegal, and you are 549 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: describing a context in which there is no rule of law, right, 550 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: So people who are into the acts that are not 551 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: legal in places where there is rule of law probably 552 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: going to be doing a lot more of those acts. Yeah, yeah, totally. 553 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: The powers that be are really upset about out this, 554 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: so they like write all of these things. I know 555 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: they're like, could you please send more lady sex workers. 556 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: We're trying to stop the men from falling in love 557 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: with each other. And I think the buccaneers during this 558 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: period are the people that I'm like, no, but these 559 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: people rule, I want to hang out with them. They've 560 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: I mean, they've really got a good thing going on. 561 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: They're like, wait, so all we need to do is 562 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: keep fucking each other and you will just send more 563 00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: boatloads of sex workers to party with. Like that's what 564 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: you're telling me? Oh, win win all around. Yeah, all right, 565 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: let's we're gonna go get married. No homo though, Like, yeah, 566 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: this is just and I don't think they were like 567 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 1: no homo, you know, don't. I think historians are trying 568 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: to stick a no homo out to some homos, just 569 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: like what they'll do, which some of them might have 570 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: been if they were alive now heterosexual, I don't fucking care, 571 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. So the Spanish they're like, we don't 572 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: like all these people living free, so they decide to 573 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: fuck around. The finding out part comes later, and so 574 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: they start murdering the ship out of all the wild 575 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: boars and cows, trying to starve out the mostly peaceful outlaws. 576 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: So the buccaneers and the cows get caught in the crossfire, 577 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: which just seems unfair. It really is. I really hate 578 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 1: the idea of like, I mean, this is a really 579 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: common on throat history. It's like, I want to fuck 580 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,280 Speaker 1: with those people. So I'm gonna kill all the animals, 581 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: like fuck you, I have a war, like an honest person, 582 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:41,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, don't quote met. So the buccaneers, they're 583 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: like they're already kind of fighty right, and they're like 584 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: these like rough and tumble frontiersman and so they're like, well, 585 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: we don't like being told what to do, so let's 586 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: go steal shit now because we can't hunt, so let's 587 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: just go rob people now. Buy boat and by sixteen 588 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: fifty buccaneer I means someone who steals ships from boats 589 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,720 Speaker 1: by means of another boat. This isn't yet grand pirate 590 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: fleets at the beginning. It's like folks and canoe is 591 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: rolling up on big boats but showing up a swords 592 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: and pistols, being like, you know, you don't give me 593 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: your shit. That'll work a lot of the time. It 594 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 1: works well for the most of the time. Yeah, most 595 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: people don't want to deal with that. Yeah, I don't 596 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: want to deal with that. You put a collist in 597 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 1: my face. You can have my purse. Yeah, that's a 598 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: honest exchange of yeah, I got nothing. Okay. This is 599 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: the aforementioned finding out for the Spanish because like this 600 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: actually likes it. This is why the United States of 601 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: America se is like English. But the privateering culture that 602 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: comes out of the Buccaneers breaks Spain, like breaks their 603 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: hold on the New World. Whoa, So they really should 604 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: have just left those cows the fuck alone. Yeah, you 605 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: kill a cow, you lose a continent. Like I don't 606 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: make the rules. I mean, you shouldn't have the continent 607 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: in the first place. Fuck you. But like so, the 608 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: Buccaneers they take the island of Tortuga right off the coast, 609 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: and they build a pirate island or a privateering island 610 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: at this point, and this is way worse for the 611 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: Spanish than having cross punks who hunt wild boor and 612 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: are historically close friends. And they call themselves the Brethren 613 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: of the Coast at this point, which is also a 614 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: sick name. They drop articles, Yeah, they drop articles. A 615 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 1: constitution of sorts, a fairly democratic one. We're gonna talk 616 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: more about, like pirate democracy in a little bit. Everything 617 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: is cool and fine, I mean, within a certain context 618 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 1: is cool and fine. The buccaneers have an island. They're 619 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: doing their thing. They're robbing from the rich and giving 620 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: to themselves. The only reason they're not the rich themselves 621 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,320 Speaker 1: is because they spend it as soon as they get it. Really, 622 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 1: they are robbing the rich and then giving it to 623 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: the sex workers and bartenders. That seems good. They who 624 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: actually seem like the real smartest pirates in all of it. 625 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: That's my takeaway from everything I've read. Okay, so yeah, no, 626 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,799 Speaker 1: set up a like I mean, this is like what 627 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: people did during the gold Rush, right, Like, yeah, you're 628 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: going to be doing much better if instead of going 629 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: out and trying to like get money the dangerous but 630 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,399 Speaker 1: possibly lucrative way, you just like set up a bar 631 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: nearby the people who are getting all the money, Yeah, 632 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: which is even more effective because the pirates are actually 633 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: not doing it to get rich. They're doing it to 634 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: like continue their lives of hedonism and fun like buy 635 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: and large, and so they will like drop fucking six 636 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: months wages in a night on like someone they think 637 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: is cute. You know, they weren't living that beech bum 638 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: lifestyle because they wanted to get rich. Yeah, so they 639 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: do go privateer at this point rather than pirates, and 640 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: so they're they're like, you know, they're pirates, but they 641 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:54,879 Speaker 1: have a note from King Dad who says it's okay, 642 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: that they're pirates as long as they only attack the Spanish, 643 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: and that's basically what all of them do. I always 644 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: privateering was like each country kind of all against all 645 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: the other countries, and there's like some of that, but 646 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: by and large it's France, England and the Dutch versus 647 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: the Spanish basically, okay, and I mean the Spanish privateers 648 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: of course are not on that page. So the part 649 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: that people don't like talking about this is that they're 650 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: also slavers. At this point, most of them are European 651 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: and this whole brethren thing. It's like kind of the 652 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: core of what philosophically is like interesting and fails about 653 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: pirates is that they have this like they come up 654 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: with all these ideals of liberty and stuff, but they 655 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: apply to a certain in group and they don't apply 656 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: it outside of that. And that's going to be a 657 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: god that sucks. You know. That sounds like the thing 658 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,160 Speaker 1: that the people who wrote the Constitution, I know, I know, 659 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: it's the different and it's like the pirates of the 660 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: chaotic evil and the founding fathers of the cat lawful evil. Yeah, 661 00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: just like, oh, we have this really cool set of 662 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: ideas about how you know all people and then people 663 00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: stress next to people but they don't know how to 664 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: phrase it any other way. The asterisk at the bottom 665 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: is like people, and then there's an astras ask risk. Yeah, yeah, 666 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 1: it's a winky face. It's just yeah, it's just a 667 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 1: picture of a white man working. Yeah, totally. It's the 668 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: only spot color on the like Cepia document that they 669 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: like use white. Um. So yeah, they keep slaves and 670 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 1: they develop all this wild democracy shit and honor among 671 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: thieves and solidarity, and their moral world only extends to 672 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: certain people, to European men. Um, there's places and for 673 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: different individuals that will talk about it extends beyond that. 674 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,480 Speaker 1: And it's actually funny. The next paragraph I have says 675 00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:52,080 Speaker 1: compared to funding fathers or whatever, but well we already 676 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: did that. Sorry, no, no, no, no, this is really good. Um. 677 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: Much like the Founding Fathers, they're also zealously protest didn't 678 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 1: at this point, Wow, you're gonna finally talk about some 679 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:08,200 Speaker 1: Protestants on this podcast. Yeah, I never talk about religion. 680 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: They're happy to attack the Spanish because the Spanish or Catholic, 681 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: and they also really went around and killed all the 682 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: like Catholic priests and monks and all that shit. But 683 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,799 Speaker 1: here's where it gets complicated. In other stories that I 684 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: tell on this show, people go around and kill all 685 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: the Catholics because the Catholics are like stopping slavery. In 686 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: this case, the Buccaneers are killing the Catholics because the 687 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: Catholics are shitty to the indigenous people the islands, and 688 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: the Buccaneers they don't quite extend their moral world to 689 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: the indigenous people, right, They're not like in the in group, 690 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of overlap and solidarity and like 691 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,959 Speaker 1: a lot of their rating tactics. I think this doesn't 692 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: end up in the scripts, and I'm just gonna use 693 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: what I remember, so don't directly quote me. A lot 694 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: of their like rating tactics and stuff come from I 695 00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: think the carib people in that area, like the literally 696 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: like put a fuck ton of people in a canoe 697 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: and you can do anything you want, and so like, 698 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,279 Speaker 1: and the buccaneer culture of course it gets its name 699 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 1: from a caraboard and like like it's just this, like 700 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's interesting, yeah, I mean, and they 701 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: had been living definitely living alongside of indigenous communities back 702 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:23,760 Speaker 1: in Haiti. Yeah, other buccaneers were Catholic, mostly French crews, 703 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: and they had their own priests and they kind of 704 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: like stayed clear of the Protestants. I don't know how 705 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: I've gotten so far in life and spent so much 706 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: time on tall ships without anyone ever telling me they 707 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: were pirate priests. I'm gonna need you to tell me 708 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: more about that right now. Okay. I only know a 709 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: little bit more about the pirate priests because so there's 710 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,319 Speaker 1: two different things. There's the buccaneer priests and they, as 711 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, it's like the same way 712 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 1: that you have a chaplain in your military. You know, 713 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: you end up with a chaplain on this like because 714 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 1: the privateers, in a weird way, they are an extension 715 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: of the state, and so this is mostly inference. I 716 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,360 Speaker 1: only found a couple of cents is about the pirate priests, 717 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: and then later I know a bunch of pirates, including 718 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: Protestants in the proper Golden age, who um would like 719 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,760 Speaker 1: try to get priests to come on board. Fucking um 720 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,560 Speaker 1: Black Bart Bartholomy Roberts. He's like the biggest Protestant asshole 721 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,400 Speaker 1: of all the fucking He doesn't like like drinking, and 722 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: no one's allowed to gamble, and like all kinds of ship. 723 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 1: Oh so now we have straight Edge in addition to 724 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 1: crust punk. Yeah. Yeah, so he's the straight edge one. 725 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: And he like really likes Protestant priests. I don't know 726 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: if they're called priests though, I think they are asking 727 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: the wrong person. Yeah, I don't know, all right, and 728 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: so I'm an expert. But he kept trying to be like, hey, 729 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: come on, join my book, join my ship, joined my 730 00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: like merry crew, and all the priests are like, no, 731 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 1: you're pirates. That's bad. Um. It's like but we don't drink. Yeah, 732 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,919 Speaker 1: and like all of his crew are like, we actually ship. Yeah, 733 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 1: totally yeah. And he's like one of the most murderous 734 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,880 Speaker 1: of the fucking anyway. So it's sixteen fifty five. The 735 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,880 Speaker 1: English take Jamaica and they were sent by the veteran 736 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: villain of the pod Oliver Cromwell, the guy who genocided 737 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,440 Speaker 1: Ireland and deserves to only be remembered for that. You 738 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:15,719 Speaker 1: can hear about him in the Diggers and Leveler's episode. 739 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: I just really like when I alt I say that. 740 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: Every fucking time I say that, Okay, now you've got 741 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,960 Speaker 1: a real like I mean, I was going to call 742 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: it the cool people extended Universe, but then I realized 743 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,240 Speaker 1: that it's actually our universe. History. Yeah, it's just history. 744 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: But that's what I like about history is it is 745 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,640 Speaker 1: it's the it's the extended universe. It's the like the 746 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 1: way it all ties together. It's the grandest story ever told, 747 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: and we're fucking characters in it. And so instead it 748 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: is presented as this like weird, boring thing, and I'm like, 749 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 1: that's nonsense. There's all of these different factions fighting. Like 750 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: That's part of why I like all the like religious 751 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: shit is because I mean the same way if I'm 752 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: talking about the nineteenth or twentieth century, I'm going to 753 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: talk abou which communies were killing, which anarchists were killing, 754 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: which capitalists were you know, like the ideological battle lines 755 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: are really interesting, and in Renal Sons era, those battle 756 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: lines are religious. So in eighteen sixteen fifty five, the 757 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: English take Jamaica and a bunch of the English buccaneers 758 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,760 Speaker 1: they leave Tortuga and they go over to join Jamaica, 759 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: and so you kind of like lose a lot of 760 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: the multiculturalism at this point, but you also get twice 761 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: as many buccaneers strongholds, which are basically pirate islands, just 762 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: all with the permission of the kings. It's like not 763 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: quite as cool. But the romance system fades away, and 764 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:35,280 Speaker 1: what fills it instead as products and services? Oh no, 765 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: I know that's the worst exchange. It's okay. They can 766 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 1: just press skip forward fifteen years and they'll they'll get 767 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: out of that right away. Here's some ads. So the 768 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 1: bromance system is fading away in the sixteen seventies, everything's 769 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,080 Speaker 1: going downhill as soon as they get letters from the king. 770 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: It's just like everything's fucking getting boring. But don't worry. 771 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: Having a letter of mark is really like it's like 772 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: being signed to a major record label, right, It's like 773 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,400 Speaker 1: your fucking sellout. I think it's okay to be signed 774 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,080 Speaker 1: a record Yeah no, I'm not. I mean, you know 775 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm not. Yeah no, I'm just trying to make a comparison. Actually, 776 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,600 Speaker 1: maybe that means the privateering. Like, I don't know, what 777 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 1: would I think if I lived in Tortuga in the 778 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,880 Speaker 1: sixteen eighty I think it was really cute when all 779 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,399 Speaker 1: the boys were married to each other, I missed that. Yeah, 780 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: those are the days. I know, near the end of 781 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century, sixteen ninety or so, the government stopped 782 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: endorsing privateering basically because it's too big of a nuisance 783 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 1: they did there. It's there's a lot of fucking around 784 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:49,799 Speaker 1: finding out in this the buccaneers did. They're good, the privateers. 785 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: They broke the Spanish monopoly in the area. So therefore, 786 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,879 Speaker 1: you know, you start getting settlements and all of this stuff, 787 00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: right and now though they don't want a siety full 788 00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,839 Speaker 1: of crazy, drunk agro guys. They want an orderly slave 789 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,879 Speaker 1: society of plantations. So the pirates, the buccaneer, the privateers, 790 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: whatever they gotta go, which is to say, at this 791 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: point earlier, the state needed the nomadic war machine. You 792 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: ever heard of the nomadic war machine, Miriam, Well, I 793 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: know of a band. There's a really good band, Nomadic 794 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: War Machine. Yeah. Yeah, because I can't talk about pirates, 795 00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,880 Speaker 1: about talking about the nomadic war machine as a philosophical concept, 796 00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: which is why you're like, why did I listen to 797 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: this another episode about Mary Reading and Bonnie and they're 798 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: not talking about them, and said, because this is a 799 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,680 Speaker 1: different shit than you get on any other fucking podcast 800 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: talking about them. Yeah, that's why you can listen to 801 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,399 Speaker 1: anybody be like and Bonnie and Mary read they were 802 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: girls but they were pirates. Who Yeah, and then like 803 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 1: credulously read that book that talks about their upbringing. That's 804 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: mazed just about titillation and lies. It don't get me wrong. 805 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: It's amazing how all of the like period woodcuts of 806 00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: the time that show them are like, and they fought 807 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:07,800 Speaker 1: with their boobs out as one does. I know, well, okay, 808 00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,759 Speaker 1: actually the first edition, I know that there's a yeah, 809 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,840 Speaker 1: I know the yeah yeah yeah, okay, well but the 810 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,440 Speaker 1: audience doesn't the first edition ahead of ourselves. All right, fine, 811 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,439 Speaker 1: all right, you know, if you want to hear about 812 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: their kids us, you're gonna have to wait first. You 813 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,160 Speaker 1: get a philosophy lesson is what you get when I 814 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 1: just finished watching The Good Place. The Nomadic war Machine 815 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,239 Speaker 1: is a philosophical construct theorized by Delusing Quatari who or 816 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 1: two French guys. They're anti authoritarian Marxists, and an interesting 817 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: thing about them, nobody has ever managed to explain a 818 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,319 Speaker 1: single one of their concepts to me successfully. Okay, so 819 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: go for it. Well, the way that I learned this 820 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,920 Speaker 1: concept was reading about pirates a long time ago, and 821 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,080 Speaker 1: it's the only context that would have helped me understand it. 822 00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,000 Speaker 1: There's a book called Life under the Black Flag by 823 00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 1: Gabriel Coon, which is one of the major sort for today, 824 00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 1: and it talks about essentially the philosophical ramifications of the 825 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,080 Speaker 1: Golden Age of piracy. And it's how I anything I 826 00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: understand about, like Nietzsche and like Dionysianism and the Nomadic 827 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: War Machine. All that shit is because I read this 828 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,080 Speaker 1: book as a like young crustpunk with blood pants. I 829 00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:21,359 Speaker 1: didn't have blood pants. I had patched pants. They were 830 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,160 Speaker 1: covered in like dumpster juice instead of I'm really not 831 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: making it better. Okay. So I like this concept enough 832 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 1: that I named a band. My dark pop band is 833 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,880 Speaker 1: called Nomadic War Machine. The idea is that the state 834 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 1: wants everything to be orderly and controlled, and it wants 835 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: sort of non conflict by creating like stratified society. So 836 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,560 Speaker 1: within this concept, which is not true right, but as 837 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,439 Speaker 1: a concept, you know, war, chaos and war are things 838 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: that exist outside the state, but the state requires those things, 839 00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: so it basically hires it. It kind of it recuperates 840 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 1: the raw chaotic energy of the non state force, which 841 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:07,239 Speaker 1: is called the war machine. And so that's like the 842 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 1: rough fucking idea. And so you can see this is 843 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,480 Speaker 1: what happened the Caribbean is you have the buccaneers there 844 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:16,120 Speaker 1: this like non state chaotic force that is really useful 845 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: to the state, and then as soon as they are 846 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: no longer useful to the state, they've broken the Spanish control, 847 00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: they're discarded. The nomadic concept part of it is a 848 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,319 Speaker 1: way to like fight against the recuperation or Okay, I'm 849 00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,320 Speaker 1: getting this part wrong because I also don't understand to 850 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,480 Speaker 1: losing Gutari. But I think that's what's cool about it, 851 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: is it you use it as a starting point to 852 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:39,320 Speaker 1: make up your own bullshit. I strongly suspect nobody understands 853 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: to lose it. Yeah, and that's why nobody has ever 854 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: successfully explained it to me. It's not I'm not the 855 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:50,839 Speaker 1: dumb one. It's everything. Yeah, totally no. And so in 856 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,000 Speaker 1: this case, the nomadic part isn't necessarily actual wandering around, 857 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 1: but sort of a chaotic embrace of non stateness. But 858 00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: actual wandering around is really good for this, and so 859 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,880 Speaker 1: the pirates actually wander around quite a bit and are 860 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,800 Speaker 1: essentially this nomadic war machine. That's what happens with the pirates. 861 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,279 Speaker 1: Privateerian licenses get harder and harder to come by. First 862 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:16,239 Speaker 1: the Spanish killed all their pigs, and now the Dutch, 863 00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,840 Speaker 1: French and English take away their license to rob. But 864 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: they didn't go to go away, So what's left for 865 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: them to do but be pirates. Seems like it kind 866 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,040 Speaker 1: of backed them into a corner. I know, really brought 867 00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 1: that on yourself, buddy. Turns out you don't need anyone's 868 00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: permission to stick a gun in someone's face and say 869 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,239 Speaker 1: give me all your money. This is a new realization 870 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,120 Speaker 1: they suddenly all had by about sixteen nineties. I mean, 871 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,799 Speaker 1: if you're a privateer, you're just a pirate according to 872 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:53,239 Speaker 1: everybody except one country. Yeah, so you're really just like 873 00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,360 Speaker 1: subtracting one country from like the list you're you're just 874 00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,200 Speaker 1: adding one country to the list of people who are 875 00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: mad at you. Yeah. But the differences ero and one 876 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 1: as a big one, Like it took humans a long 877 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,080 Speaker 1: time to figure out, you know, the concept of zero, 878 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:10,000 Speaker 1: Like it's a very different thing than one. So theings 879 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,120 Speaker 1: get called like proper pirates or whatever. I don't know. 880 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: The English legal dictum from the eighteenth century was quote, 881 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,800 Speaker 1: a pirate is in a perpetual war with every individual 882 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: in every state, Christian or Infidel. Pirates properly have no country, 883 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,160 Speaker 1: but by the nature of their guilt separate themselves and 884 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: renounce on this matter the benefit of all lawful societies. 885 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:34,960 Speaker 1: They're doing that thing where they say a thing that 886 00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: they think is bad, but they make it sound cool 887 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: as fat. And that's why you have to You had 888 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:45,360 Speaker 1: to go to pirate themed bullshit in the twenty first 889 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,160 Speaker 1: century is because ye, but I got to see blue 890 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:51,440 Speaker 1: Oyster call, so it worked out. Yeah, four hundred years earlier, 891 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,479 Speaker 1: the English tried to make something sound bad and made 892 00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:00,319 Speaker 1: it sound real cool. They are presented as a means 893 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:04,320 Speaker 1: of all mankind and villains of all nation, villains of 894 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,400 Speaker 1: all nations. And this is what's interesting about them, not 895 00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,960 Speaker 1: their actual actions, which is mostly murder, rape, torturing, cruelty. 896 00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:13,360 Speaker 1: They're remembered by the left is nice, happy gay thieves 897 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:18,720 Speaker 1: who are chaotic good and presaged Western democracy. But realistically 898 00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,319 Speaker 1: they're overall somewhere between chaotic neutral and chaotic evil. But 899 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: they went to war against a lawful evil system and 900 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,120 Speaker 1: so the chaotic part is what's interesting. Not pretendially, I 901 00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,480 Speaker 1: think you could make an argument for true neutral no, 902 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,440 Speaker 1: not a derailist. I'm fully on the page of believing 903 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,800 Speaker 1: that they are a representation of chaos. Okay, yeah, no, 904 00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I just think there's like 905 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,399 Speaker 1: this element of like perpetual pure self interest where it's like, well, 906 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:53,200 Speaker 1: so you know there isn't that's what's interesting, Okay, go on. 907 00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: It will get to this more later. But they were 908 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,960 Speaker 1: really fraternal amongst each other and like essentially communistic in 909 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 1: many many regards within their own culture. Not communistic isn't 910 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,719 Speaker 1: really the right word, because there's still like individual all right, 911 00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 1: we'll get to it. So one of the things that 912 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,960 Speaker 1: makes them different from every other era of pirates and 913 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:19,840 Speaker 1: like because I was always like, as soon as I 914 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,759 Speaker 1: found out the golden Age of piracy was like eight years, 915 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:23,319 Speaker 1: I was like, I feel like I got ripped off. 916 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,359 Speaker 1: I was like, everyone talks about these motherfuckers, But there 917 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,160 Speaker 1: was literally about four thousand of them total, Like at 918 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,560 Speaker 1: any given time, there was like at the most peak, 919 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,120 Speaker 1: at any given moment, there'd be like two twenty five 920 00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,960 Speaker 1: hundred of them on the ocean. I've hung out with 921 00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: more people than that on a regular basis. I've been 922 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 1: to protest with way more people than that. Right, there's 923 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 1: probably more telship sailors. Now, Yeah, then there were pirates 924 00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: in the Golden Era, Like, so what makes them so different? 925 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: And so for a while I was like mad, because 926 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,839 Speaker 1: it's like, there's pirates fucking everywhere all throughout history. Why 927 00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,400 Speaker 1: won't people shut the funk about these pirates? And a 928 00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:04,319 Speaker 1: lot of it is like bullshit Western gays stuff, but 929 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,480 Speaker 1: not all of it. And so I want to talk 930 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,480 Speaker 1: about what makes the Golden Age pirates sort of different? 931 00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:13,239 Speaker 1: It seems as though, and this is the premise of 932 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,799 Speaker 1: various you know pieces I've read. This is not like 933 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,720 Speaker 1: I'm so smart and I know everything, right, Most pirates 934 00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:20,919 Speaker 1: in history have been part of a community, as sort 935 00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: of almost like a rude coast guard, right. They've been 936 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:26,319 Speaker 1: like part of a bandit culture that is attached to 937 00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: a community. The Somali pirates, for example, got their modern 938 00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,840 Speaker 1: start as literally like a lot of them call themselves 939 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,400 Speaker 1: as a gentleman who worked the ocean, which actually sounds 940 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: like the brethren of the coast to me. Yeah, that 941 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,719 Speaker 1: sounds exactly like some Golden Age of piracy ship, I know, 942 00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:43,280 Speaker 1: and they attacked all the international fishing vessels that showed 943 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: up to fucking their waters after the government stopped, you know, 944 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,319 Speaker 1: being able to enforce laws within the coastal waters. I'm 945 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: not trying to make a statement about the ethics of 946 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,520 Speaker 1: the current development of the Somali pirates, right, but Golden 947 00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,680 Speaker 1: age pirates weren't part of a specific broader community than that. 948 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: There's like, there are pirates ports, but it's a really 949 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,480 Speaker 1: different thing. Robert see Ritchie's way of distinguishing between these 950 00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 1: two types of piracy is, and I quote, one can 951 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:12,200 Speaker 1: be desfined as organized marauding, the other as anarchistic marauding. 952 00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,200 Speaker 1: Many men were involved in both, yet a distinction can 953 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,840 Speaker 1: be made. Organized pirates remained attached to a port as 954 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,319 Speaker 1: their base of operation. Anarchistic marauding involved leaving behind the 955 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 1: base of operation and wandering for months, even years at 956 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,319 Speaker 1: a time. And I think that's how we end up 957 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,640 Speaker 1: with this, is this romanticization, is that they did something 958 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,839 Speaker 1: kind of different. So the core argument of Gabriel Coon's book, 959 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,600 Speaker 1: the one I learned about the Pneumatic war machine from, 960 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:39,760 Speaker 1: is really interesting. The argument is that pirates are worth 961 00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:43,680 Speaker 1: thinking or cool, but not for the reasons that radicals claim. 962 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,800 Speaker 1: It's like this exploding head diagram, you know, my favorite 963 00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:49,879 Speaker 1: meme in the world. There's like pirates are cool because 964 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:51,960 Speaker 1: they live free fuck the law at the bottom, right, 965 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:53,840 Speaker 1: and then there's like, I mean they were murders and 966 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,960 Speaker 1: slavers on top of that, and then you go up 967 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,520 Speaker 1: to like, no, they were radically democratic and developed alternative 968 00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,040 Speaker 1: societies outside the law and broke free from society's conceptions 969 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,680 Speaker 1: of race, gender, sex, and nationality, and that's like above that, 970 00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: and then above that you're like mostly no, not really, 971 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,920 Speaker 1: they were mostly just murderous thieves. But then above it 972 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,239 Speaker 1: all is pirates are cool because he fucked the law, 973 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,760 Speaker 1: and it's a shame that they didn't apply their concepts 974 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,479 Speaker 1: of liberty outside just themselves in their bros. All right, 975 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:26,560 Speaker 1: that's my I'm listening. Yeah, okay, Well, then the golden 976 00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: Age of piracy actually starts in the Indian Ocean. I 977 00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:31,640 Speaker 1: don't know if you knew this, Mirriams. You know, the 978 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:37,200 Speaker 1: ocean is really big and connects all of the world. Yeah, yeah, 979 00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:44,240 Speaker 1: it's bigger than most things. Yeah. Actually, yeah, congrats serious, 980 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:53,520 Speaker 1: always take Margaret serious the Golden Thanks. Thanks, It's terrible 981 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:56,279 Speaker 1: that I'll get you in trouble one day. Um. The 982 00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,879 Speaker 1: Golden Age pirates went everywhere that trade went, routes went, 983 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,040 Speaker 1: and so even though their bases were often in the Caribbean, 984 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:06,320 Speaker 1: they were fucking everywhere. Two English privateer captains Henry every 985 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,360 Speaker 1: and Thomas two, they wind up going to the Indian 986 00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,480 Speaker 1: Ocean and robbing whoever they want, including Brits, even though 987 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,040 Speaker 1: they were British Supposedly. In sixteen ninety two, Thomas two 988 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 1: told his crew quote that it was better to risk 989 00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:23,080 Speaker 1: your life for plunder than for government. I mean that 990 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,400 Speaker 1: is going to be hard to argue with. No, I'm 991 00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:29,840 Speaker 1: just I'm with him. Yeah, And they all captains and 992 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,280 Speaker 1: crew alike, and we'll talk about the how they split 993 00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:35,800 Speaker 1: money more equitably than other systems. They all get richest 994 00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,959 Speaker 1: ship for this. On its second trip, Thomas two dies. 995 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,280 Speaker 1: He gets shot in the belly because robbing people's a 996 00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,160 Speaker 1: really bad idea overall and kind of dangerous. You don't 997 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,280 Speaker 1: pick the career pirate because you're hoping to like rv 998 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,560 Speaker 1: around the country after retirement looking at birds in Yellowstone. 999 00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,840 Speaker 1: I definitely associate that I don't remember like whose phrase 1000 00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,080 Speaker 1: this was, but a short life and a merry one 1001 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,320 Speaker 1: is like one that pops up a lot in like 1002 00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,480 Speaker 1: writings about the about pirates of that era. Yeah, that 1003 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,560 Speaker 1: makes a lot of fucking sense. That is like probably 1004 00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:10,960 Speaker 1: a writer wrote it and not a pirate, but you know, 1005 00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and it's like even when I'm 1006 00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:15,040 Speaker 1: like Thomas two said, and I'm like, I don't fucking 1007 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:16,760 Speaker 1: know Thomas who said that, Like, was it like his 1008 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:20,920 Speaker 1: ship's fucking chronicler who wrote it down? Like, yeah, I 1009 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:23,840 Speaker 1: knew we weren't gonna like get super far without a 1010 00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:27,920 Speaker 1: reference to our flag means death. But the one of 1011 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:30,360 Speaker 1: the best things on that show is the fact that 1012 00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,400 Speaker 1: he has like a guy following him around writing down 1013 00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: cool stuff that he says. I know, I know. This 1014 00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,040 Speaker 1: is what I thought about when I said, yeah, a 1015 00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:46,040 Speaker 1: lot of pirates get their start by mutiny, and I 1016 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,880 Speaker 1: haven't read about it, being like, um, it's not that 1017 00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,720 Speaker 1: they're like usually like, oh, we don't like following the law, 1018 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,840 Speaker 1: let's be pirates instead their mutiny like we aren't getting paid, 1019 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:58,840 Speaker 1: we aren't being fed, Like one of the pirates that 1020 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:00,720 Speaker 1: I read about, like at their start because that mutiny, 1021 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,040 Speaker 1: because the captain was like, no, I don't have any food, 1022 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:04,880 Speaker 1: but you can, like drink some rum. I don't care, 1023 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,720 Speaker 1: and the pirates like, no, we want food, and so 1024 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,600 Speaker 1: they like fucking killed the captain and became parrots. You know, 1025 00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:13,880 Speaker 1: if you, if you are ever in such a situation 1026 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:18,520 Speaker 1: as this captain was saying to your you know, dissatisfied underlings, 1027 00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,120 Speaker 1: no you can't have any food, drink hard liquor on 1028 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,640 Speaker 1: an empty stomach, and make a level headed decision here. 1029 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,720 Speaker 1: That might not be your best call. It's it's the 1030 00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,960 Speaker 1: let them eat cake. But if cake was like a 1031 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,680 Speaker 1: thing that makes people angry historically let me eat let 1032 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:44,080 Speaker 1: them eat violence juice. Yeah, totally. So they don't view 1033 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:46,040 Speaker 1: the project as a way to get rich overall, but 1034 00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,520 Speaker 1: more as a way to live free. And also specifically 1035 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:52,040 Speaker 1: a lot of them are very directly motivated by revenge 1036 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,880 Speaker 1: against the system, specifically against the merchant captains who worked 1037 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,400 Speaker 1: sailors to death for work for fucking nothing. Pirates pretty 1038 00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:01,680 Speaker 1: often would capture ship and then just ask the crew 1039 01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,560 Speaker 1: of the ship like, hey, was this guy good to you? 1040 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,400 Speaker 1: And if the crews like, nah, this guy sucked, they 1041 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: just fucking kill the captain. And if the captain they 1042 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:10,360 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, he was all right, they might like 1043 01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,560 Speaker 1: not kill the captain. You know, it's a very good 1044 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:18,680 Speaker 1: incentive to be a less shitty boss exactly. That is 1045 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,280 Speaker 1: actually one of the things I don't think has talked 1046 01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,440 Speaker 1: about is like the existence of this thing happening probably 1047 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,800 Speaker 1: got a lot of fucking merchant captains to get their 1048 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:33,320 Speaker 1: ship together. You know. Specifically, the way that they killed 1049 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,800 Speaker 1: some of these merchant captains was to or at least 1050 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,320 Speaker 1: one of them, wrap a rope around the captain's face 1051 01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:42,320 Speaker 1: and tighten it until his eyes popped out. Cool people 1052 01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:46,880 Speaker 1: are every episode I read at least two new torture 1053 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,320 Speaker 1: methods that they've never occurred to me. I rarely include them, 1054 01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:53,160 Speaker 1: but I don't know. Because this one's about bosses, I 1055 01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,960 Speaker 1: felt like including it. I mean, and I think it's 1056 01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,680 Speaker 1: probably good to remember that, like a lot of the 1057 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,200 Speaker 1: stuff the people were going to be talking about are 1058 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:08,240 Speaker 1: we're doing is like really just actually terrible. Yeah, And 1059 01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of argument about exactly how murdery and 1060 01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:15,240 Speaker 1: rape and tortury the pirates were. There's absolutely a decent 1061 01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:17,640 Speaker 1: amount of all three. There's like proof of all three, 1062 01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,960 Speaker 1: it's possible that they were intentionally spreading gossip about how 1063 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,720 Speaker 1: horrible and mean and evil and terrible they were, so 1064 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:27,720 Speaker 1: that to anyone who resisted, so that when they roll 1065 01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:29,800 Speaker 1: up on you, people are like, no, I don't want 1066 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,000 Speaker 1: to resist, then we'll all get like tortured, right, Absolutely, 1067 01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 1: you don't want the rumor about you to be like, oh, yeah, 1068 01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,040 Speaker 1: he's a chill guy. I hear, you can negotiate with him, 1069 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,880 Speaker 1: you know, but that's said. I actually think that they're 1070 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 1: like um later pirates kind of there's a they have 1071 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 1: this downward arc. Later get even more like violent, right, 1072 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,840 Speaker 1: And I think they kind of like, you have to 1073 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,480 Speaker 1: be both good cop and bad cup. You have to 1074 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,120 Speaker 1: be able to be like, look, I don't want to 1075 01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,320 Speaker 1: torture the shit out of you. You could just give up, 1076 01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:04,600 Speaker 1: you know, you have to be known for some level 1077 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,680 Speaker 1: of mercy two people who go along with you in 1078 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,440 Speaker 1: order to get away with being a robber. Like if 1079 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,640 Speaker 1: every mugger shot the person that they stole from, people 1080 01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:17,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't give up their wallets to the person with a gun. 1081 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 1: They'd fight, you know. Yeah, I wonder if also there 1082 01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,320 Speaker 1: was like kind of a self fulfilling thing of like 1083 01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:32,000 Speaker 1: if you hype yourselves up as sadistic, violent assholes, one 1084 01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,080 Speaker 1: hundred years later people who are like, well, I'm a sadistic, 1085 01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:37,720 Speaker 1: violent asshole. I wonder if there's a way to monetize 1086 01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:40,880 Speaker 1: that might be more likely to go into the career 1087 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:45,560 Speaker 1: that you have created. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And different 1088 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,280 Speaker 1: crews were absolutely known for different levels of all of 1089 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,280 Speaker 1: this shit, And so it's it's possible that pirates lived 1090 01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:54,960 Speaker 1: in this like what can only be described as a 1091 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:59,000 Speaker 1: horror movie world. Like it's possible that it was this 1092 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,800 Speaker 1: fucking nightmare air, this like sadistic, strange horror thing with 1093 01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,360 Speaker 1: and some of them were absolutely bloodthirsty. One guy was 1094 01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,480 Speaker 1: literally bloodthirsty. He was famous for hacking someone up with 1095 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,520 Speaker 1: the cutlass and then licking the blood off of the cutlasts. 1096 01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:15,600 Speaker 1: A lot of them were cannibals, or at least presented 1097 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 1: themselves as cannibals through like grotesque acts in order to 1098 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,520 Speaker 1: scare the shit out of everyone. But it's possible, and 1099 01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,960 Speaker 1: I think probable that overall they were exerting a lot 1100 01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:28,120 Speaker 1: less violence than the system that they were fighting against. 1101 01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 1: And I don't know they're pirates they're not a peaceful bunch. 1102 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,600 Speaker 1: By sixteen ninety seven, do you have an I means 1103 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,720 Speaker 1: sorry just I mean, oh no, when when you're talking 1104 01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:41,440 Speaker 1: about like all of these ships that they're attacking and robbing, 1105 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:48,560 Speaker 1: these are ships carrying the wealth created by colonialists, like projects, 1106 01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:51,760 Speaker 1: like colonial projects, and all of these countries where it's 1107 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:58,520 Speaker 1: slave labor right being exploited to extract resources from other 1108 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 1: people's countries. Like there is a whole mess of violence 1109 01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:08,960 Speaker 1: happening before the pirates get their hands on this money. Yeah, no, exactly, 1110 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,400 Speaker 1: and like and not just in a like these are 1111 01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the crazy violent ones in the state is like calmly violent, 1112 01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,040 Speaker 1: Like the state is also like torturing the shit out 1113 01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,200 Speaker 1: of everyone's like sadistic as fuck. Like this is not 1114 01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:24,880 Speaker 1: a fucking pretty time, none of which makes me want 1115 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,400 Speaker 1: to hang out with seventeenth century pirates anymore then I 1116 01:04:28,480 --> 01:04:30,560 Speaker 1: previously did. I'm just sort of saying, like, yeah, in 1117 01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:37,760 Speaker 1: the context is one of extreme violence, Yeah, totally. By 1118 01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:40,640 Speaker 1: sixteen ninety seven, you have an explosion of piracy. By 1119 01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:43,920 Speaker 1: seventeen hundred, pirates have a symbol for themselves, the fucking 1120 01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,880 Speaker 1: Jolly Roger, which is a black flag with various allegories 1121 01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,240 Speaker 1: for death on it, a skull and bones, hourglasses, bleeding hearts. 1122 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,360 Speaker 1: When they were privateers, they all wanted to be upstanding 1123 01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,400 Speaker 1: and not seen as pirates like that was like they 1124 01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:00,280 Speaker 1: were always like, yeah, we're not pirates. This is a 1125 01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:04,000 Speaker 1: big change. Now they're fucking proud, which leads to my 1126 01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:06,520 Speaker 1: argument that the first Pride flag was black and had 1127 01:05:06,560 --> 01:05:09,720 Speaker 1: a skeleton holding a spear and an hourglass. That's all 1128 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Sometimes those flags could get absurdly intricate too. 1129 01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:19,280 Speaker 1: There was one I don't remember whose this was. I 1130 01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:23,080 Speaker 1: used to definitely know this, but there's like a skeleton 1131 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:25,960 Speaker 1: or maybe it's a guy but like holding a spear 1132 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,760 Speaker 1: that is dripping blood, and he's standing over two skulls 1133 01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,920 Speaker 1: and the skulls are labeled like it's the country that 1134 01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,080 Speaker 1: they are, and it's like, yeah, my guy, you do 1135 01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:36,680 Speaker 1: not want to be a pirate. You want to draw 1136 01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 1: political cartoons like yeah, And that guy changed. I think 1137 01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,560 Speaker 1: it was Black Bart, who's not black, to be clear, 1138 01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:46,680 Speaker 1: None of the Goldench pirate captains or black some other 1139 01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,920 Speaker 1: crew are. We'll talk about that more, but yeah, no, 1140 01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,160 Speaker 1: that guy changes fucking flag like every fucking week too, 1141 01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:59,560 Speaker 1: like because he's he's basically fucking Ben Garrison. I can't 1142 01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,640 Speaker 1: think of and Garson's way, I'm now maybe now I'm 1143 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,200 Speaker 1: worried I got the name wrongs that that conservative weird 1144 01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,640 Speaker 1: like weird cartoonist who makes all of these like incredibly 1145 01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:13,160 Speaker 1: intricate political cartoons. Everything is labeled like the Downfall of 1146 01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:17,080 Speaker 1: the West or AOC you know. Yeah, No, and me 1147 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:19,640 Speaker 1: not knowing the name of anything or anyone is not 1148 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:23,280 Speaker 1: a symbol of it being obscure or wrong. It's a 1149 01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,760 Speaker 1: symbol of the if it's not literally written in front 1150 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,840 Speaker 1: of me. I don't know anyone's names, gotcha, but I 1151 01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,800 Speaker 1: think it was Bartholomi Robert who had that flag. But 1152 01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,120 Speaker 1: I remember reading about it being like this guy's a 1153 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,680 Speaker 1: little much. And that's where we're gonna leave it today. 1154 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,240 Speaker 1: When we come back on Wednesday, we'll talk about pirates 1155 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,439 Speaker 1: and that polycuele I'm like dangling in front of people, 1156 01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,200 Speaker 1: much like the seventeen twenty sixth edition of You were like, oh, 1157 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:48,960 Speaker 1: when we get to Annibondi and Mary Read, we'll talk 1158 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:50,880 Speaker 1: about how they did or did not have their boobs 1159 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,760 Speaker 1: out all the time, Like we're gonna to tune in 1160 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,320 Speaker 1: in episode two. Yeah, the podcast that makes fun of 1161 01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:02,920 Speaker 1: how other people use things for titillating purposes and therefore 1162 01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,360 Speaker 1: basically plays into the same system that it's fighting against. 1163 01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,400 Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. See what you're doing, Margaret. Thanks, 1164 01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,920 Speaker 1: But but Miriam, what are you doing with your life 1165 01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,240 Speaker 1: or plugs or things that you want to tell people about. 1166 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:22,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna plug moderate amounts of vitamin C. Okay, you 1167 01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,800 Speaker 1: don't need to go you know, overboard. Uh, you don't 1168 01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,600 Speaker 1: need to keel all yourself with vitamin C. Well, like, 1169 01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:35,800 Speaker 1: don't get scurvy, you know, eat an apple? All right, 1170 01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:41,840 Speaker 1: Sophie guiding the plug. No, not today. I'm gonna plug 1171 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,400 Speaker 1: because I never plug my bands for some reason in 1172 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:47,800 Speaker 1: this podcast. I have a band called Nomadic war Machine. 1173 01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,200 Speaker 1: Nomadic Warmachine dot bandcamp dot com has a bunch of albums. 1174 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 1: It's dark beep boops that go beep boop boop. And 1175 01:07:55,600 --> 01:07:59,120 Speaker 1: then I have a metal band called Feminasgal that does 1176 01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:03,160 Speaker 1: not go whoop. Although you'll pretty quickly be able to 1177 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,960 Speaker 1: tell that I'm a person who writes the drums for both. 1178 01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,440 Speaker 1: And that's what I have to plug. I'll talk to 1179 01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,680 Speaker 1: everyone on Wednesday when we're going to talk about pirate tits. 1180 01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:20,400 Speaker 1: Cool Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production 1181 01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:23,639 Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, 1182 01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,840 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us 1183 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,280 Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 1184 01:08:30,320 --> 01:08:31,360 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.