1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,680
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

2
00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,320
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

3
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,600
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

4
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,719
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

5
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,720
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

6
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:16,280
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

7
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

8
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,840
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

9
00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,120
Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

10
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,600
Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. S'm Ryan Graham. I'm

11
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,840
Speaker 3: here with Emily Dushinsky. Emily, how you doing great.

12
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 4: I'm so excited about the new set. How about you?

13
00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 3: Ryan, It's looking great.

14
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,360
Speaker 4: Please don't please don't blame me for the Lenen book.

15
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,519
Speaker 3: Thank you. Emily insisted on bringing that in. We do

16
00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,879
Speaker 3: have some incredible news for this new set, and that is,

17
00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,599
Speaker 3: you know, former President Trump was arraigned in Miami yesterday

18
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,839
Speaker 3: on thirty seven counts of being a complete idiot. He

19
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,000
Speaker 3: is the first former president ever to be charged with

20
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,880
Speaker 3: this level of idiocy. We're going to be talking about

21
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 3: that pretty soon. We're also going to talk about a

22
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,440
Speaker 3: lot of developments out of Ukraine, including news around the

23
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 3: nord Stream pipeline that the Ukrainians were warned not to

24
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 3: blow that thing up. Apparently they didn't get that memo.

25
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 3: Thing got blown up, seems like it. Yeah, unfortunately, how

26
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,200
Speaker 3: that happens. We're also going to talk about new news

27
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:21,000
Speaker 3: on Wuhan and the lab leak. Fascinating report from Matt

28
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,520
Speaker 3: Taibi and Michael Schellenberger identifying three lab workers by name

29
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,559
Speaker 3: who were sickened in November twenty nineteen, which up ends

30
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 3: the wet market case that's always been made because the

31
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,120
Speaker 3: wet market case points to early twenty twenty. So if

32
00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,440
Speaker 3: you have cases coming out of the Wuhan lab, as

33
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 3: we knew about already, but now they've identified them by name.

34
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 3: So we're going to talk about that later. What else

35
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:45,280
Speaker 3: we got.

36
00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:46,760
Speaker 5: We're going to try to get to the bottom of

37
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,560
Speaker 5: some news that Starbucks has in some ways tried to

38
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 5: downplay their support for Pride Month. Ryan, you're going to

39
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,240
Speaker 5: talk about inflation. I'm going to talk a little bit

40
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 5: about the Espionage Act. And we're so excited to have

41
00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,919
Speaker 5: the one and only Glenn Greenwald here to talk about

42
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:01,960
Speaker 5: all kinds of stuff. Actually, we're going to be covering

43
00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,960
Speaker 5: some stuff out of the Middle East with Glenn Yeah.

44
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,160
Speaker 3: But first there's a piece of news that I think

45
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,360
Speaker 3: the mainstream media is not paying enough attention to that

46
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,360
Speaker 3: developed yesterday on Katie Helper's show that could actually change

47
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,200
Speaker 3: the course of the upcoming election and change the course

48
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,240
Speaker 3: of history. Let's roll this interview Katie Helper did with Cornell.

49
00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,359
Speaker 5: West and you, of course, when you announced you were

50
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 5: with the movement for the People's Party the MPP, do

51
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:26,240
Speaker 5: you have an update about this?

52
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:27,160
Speaker 6: Oh?

53
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,320
Speaker 7: Yes, no, that that process is very much in movement

54
00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 7: and I look forward to it. You know, I'll always

55
00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 7: have gratitude for the tremendous work of the volunteers of

56
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,880
Speaker 7: the People's Party and so forth. But there was so

57
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,600
Speaker 7: much going on internally, and therefore we had to be

58
00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 7: able to keep the focus where it belongs. And so

59
00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 7: we're still I am still deeply committed to a broad

60
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 7: coalitional sensibility and the United Front, and so I invite

61
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,520
Speaker 7: variety of different organizations and that includes the People's Party.

62
00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,400
Speaker 7: But I'm certainly moving in the not just forward, but

63
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,080
Speaker 7: won't look forward to being a part of the nomination

64
00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 7: process of the Green Party.

65
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: And so Corner West had initially launched his presidential campaign

66
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 3: as a candidate of what's called the Movement for a

67
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 3: People's Party, which wasn't much of a threat to the

68
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,920
Speaker 3: Democratic Party because the People's Party doesn't really have ballid access.

69
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 3: There may be a couple of states where they have

70
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,320
Speaker 3: a path to ballot access, and so it would be

71
00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,160
Speaker 3: more like Corner West could do interviews and make speeches,

72
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 3: but if people wanted to vote for him, they basically

73
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,360
Speaker 3: have to write him in. The Greens, though, you know,

74
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 3: have much more infrastructure, and so this means that if

75
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 3: he can win the Green Party primary, which is likely

76
00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 3: but not guaranteed because the Greens are wild, then he

77
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 3: will actually be on the ballot if he stays in

78
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,280
Speaker 3: through the general election. And you know how many votes

79
00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 3: were Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arizona to well, No, it's an

80
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 3: important point.

81
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 5: Infrastructure is the exact word that I was going to use.

82
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,440
Speaker 5: When you can plug into something that already exists, even

83
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,080
Speaker 5: if it's fairly minor compared to the two party system

84
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 5: Republicans and Democrats have, that actually makes a difference. That

85
00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton will insist that she lost because of Russia,

86
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,160
Speaker 5: because of Jill Stein and Susan Sarandon in twenty sixteen.

87
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 4: But in all seriousness, there's.

88
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 5: Math that shows, you know, not because so many people

89
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,919
Speaker 5: were stoked to maybe vote for Jill Stein, but because

90
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 5: they really didn't want to vote for Hillary Clinton, they

91
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,440
Speaker 5: did peel off and they did end up casting bots

92
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:33,040
Speaker 5: for Jill Stein.

93
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,239
Speaker 4: Sometimes you stay home.

94
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:37,880
Speaker 5: All kinds of stuff can happen when you have another

95
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,880
Speaker 5: candidate in the race, and when you have a really

96
00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 5: close race, as we've seen in the last couple of cycles,

97
00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 5: where to your point, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and those electoral

98
00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 5: votes can be decided by such a slim margin.

99
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,000
Speaker 4: This actually really matters, especially somebody with a name recognition.

100
00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,280
Speaker 5: And I can't think of a Green Party candidate in

101
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,839
Speaker 5: recent memory who has the recognized ability of Cornell West.

102
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 3: Right. There hasn't been really since Ralph Nader, I would say.

103
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,000
Speaker 3: And it's really a humiliating blow to the People's Party

104
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,279
Speaker 3: as well, which had a lot of potential when it

105
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 3: first launched. And it's kind of a lesson to organizations

106
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 3: not to get bogged down in internescing warfare and so

107
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,040
Speaker 3: much drama because Cornell West specified with all of the

108
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,640
Speaker 3: internal things going on at the People's Party, I thought

109
00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,359
Speaker 3: it was a better idea for me to go with

110
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 3: the Greens. If the Greens are seen to be kind

111
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,280
Speaker 3: of a well functioning organization compared to you, then you've

112
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:35,240
Speaker 3: got a lot of problems.

113
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 5: Well, speaking of people with problems, let's transition to the

114
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,960
Speaker 5: big news out of Florida yesterday where former President Donald

115
00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,799
Speaker 5: Trump was actually in a courtroom. He pleaded not guilty

116
00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,440
Speaker 5: to all of those charges against him and the sensitive documents,

117
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,160
Speaker 5: the classified document case. Again, he is the first US president,

118
00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,520
Speaker 5: either current or former, to be indicted with a criminal

119
00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,920
Speaker 5: indictment on a federal level. This from the BBC, who

120
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,440
Speaker 5: had a reporter in the courtroom. Quote, he appeared somber

121
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,080
Speaker 5: and subdued in court, sitting in a dark suit and

122
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,679
Speaker 5: red tie with his arms across, which Ryan just mocked

123
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 5: up so perfectly for everyone to see. This is the

124
00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:18,159
Speaker 5: Trump lawyer says, quote, we most certainly enter a plea

125
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:20,960
Speaker 5: of not guilty. By the way, we should mention it

126
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 5: is Donald Trump's seventy seventh birthday today. In honor of

127
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,600
Speaker 5: Donald Trump's seventy seventh birthday, I think Ryan, we should

128
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 5: roll probably the seventy seventh funniest clip of Trump ever,

129
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 5: which is from a speech he gave yesterday after appearing

130
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,240
Speaker 5: in court, which CNN and MSNBC, by the way, refused

131
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:42,159
Speaker 5: to air because they said it would be just like

132
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 5: a campaign ad.

133
00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:46,920
Speaker 3: Well, people missed out because absolutely iconic moment, maybe even

134
00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 3: his epitaph. I like to picture him as entering his

135
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 3: plea to the court with this right here, we can

136
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:53,200
Speaker 3: roll a five.

137
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,760
Speaker 1: I did everything right, and they indicted me right.

138
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,920
Speaker 5: And he loves these clips. How much I've already seen

139
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 5: like ten times this morning.

140
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,799
Speaker 3: Maybe it can be my ring tone.

141
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,599
Speaker 4: Oh, you should have a video ring tone.

142
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,160
Speaker 3: Everything right, And you pointed out early it sounds like

143
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:12,320
Speaker 3: he's doing an impression of himself. It's like a Trump impersonator.

144
00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:12,840
Speaker 4: It does.

145
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 5: And again there were videos, so that basically here's the

146
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 5: timeline of events. Trump shows up in court, pleads not guilty.

147
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,360
Speaker 5: There's all kinds of you know, sort of the usual

148
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,040
Speaker 5: media circus outside of the courtroom.

149
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 4: He then goes he's in the car.

150
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 5: He starts posting to truth social things like quote one

151
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 5: of the saddest days in the history of our country,

152
00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,640
Speaker 5: we are a nation in decline. That seems to have

153
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,880
Speaker 5: been something he posted while he was in the motorcade

154
00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:41,080
Speaker 5: leaving the courtroom going to Trump National Durel. He then

155
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 5: shows up or maybe this was right after the courtroom,

156
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 5: he goes to Versailles, so a Cuban spot in little Havana,

157
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 5: starts meeting with Trump supporters. Basically, he prayed with them.

158
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 5: They sing Happy Birthday to him. And this is another

159
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,760
Speaker 5: thing that corporate press cut away from because they said

160
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 5: it looked like a campaign ad.

161
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,880
Speaker 4: They didn't want people to see it. There's enough of this.

162
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 5: I think Jake Tapper in particular pulled away from it

163
00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,360
Speaker 5: and said we've seen enough. And then he gives this

164
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,040
Speaker 5: speech later that evening, which the CNN and MSNBC also

165
00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 5: don't cover because again they say the usual sort of

166
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 5: it's full of lies, which I'm sure it was Nicole Wallace.

167
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, Nicole Wallace even asked them to take the vo

168
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,239
Speaker 3: which is like the kind of the b role playing

169
00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,720
Speaker 3: in the background off because it was distracting from the

170
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,640
Speaker 3: brilliant words of the MSNBC commentators, like, come on.

171
00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,880
Speaker 5: That's really rich coming from Nicole Wallace, who like lied

172
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,239
Speaker 5: from the podium during the Bush administration.

173
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 4: Professionally, she did do that.

174
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,439
Speaker 5: I want to ask you about this one quote from

175
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,200
Speaker 5: Trump's lawyer, who said, outside quote, we are at a

176
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,680
Speaker 5: turning point in our nation's history. The targeting prosecution of

177
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 5: a leading political opponent is the type of thing you

178
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,040
Speaker 5: see in dictatorships like Cuba and Venezuela. What is being

179
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 5: done to President Trump should terrify it. All said is

180
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 5: of this country. I want to ask you about that

181
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 5: in particular because I think that's a preview of a

182
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,679
Speaker 5: huge part of the messaging strategy throughout the campaign and

183
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 5: in the primary as well, that Donald Trump is a

184
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,720
Speaker 5: target of something transformative in the country. Like if you

185
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,120
Speaker 5: are concerned, if you have that sort of hazy feeling

186
00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 5: that something's wrong in the United States, you need look

187
00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,560
Speaker 5: no further than what's happening to Donald Trump. This is

188
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 5: the sort of pinnacle of America's transformation from republic to

189
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 5: banana republic, and especially in places like Florida. He goes

190
00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 5: to Versailles right afterwards, in little Havana and starts making

191
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 5: this argument. I think that's really interesting. I think there's

192
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 5: definitely something I'll talk about this in my monologue. With

193
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,040
Speaker 5: the fact that he's actually if he wins the primary,

194
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,280
Speaker 5: which he's the front runner right now, he's likely to

195
00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,920
Speaker 5: face Joe Biden. It's Joe Biden who appointed this special

196
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:54,200
Speaker 5: council and Merrick Garland who ultimately has purview over.

197
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:55,199
Speaker 4: The special Council.

198
00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,959
Speaker 5: I think that's an impactful, a consequence argument to take

199
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 5: to the campaign. True.

200
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 3: I think it's certainly the best argument that they have

201
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,560
Speaker 3: at this point. And I think that both things can

202
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,040
Speaker 3: be true. I think it is crossing some type of rubicon.

203
00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,959
Speaker 3: And also Trump just walked right into it. I think

204
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:19,200
Speaker 3: it was Cernovich's response one of the right wing influencer

205
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 3: who said that you know it is they are unfairly

206
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 3: targeting Trump, but also Trump walked right into this. Trump

207
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 3: fell into a trap, however you want to describe it.

208
00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 3: You read that indictment, you're just shaking your head all

209
00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,400
Speaker 3: the way through, Like, how can a criminal be this

210
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 3: stupid in the commission of his criminality A he had

211
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:44,120
Speaker 3: unilateral authority to declassify documents, yet caught a classified document charge.

212
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 3: Like that's level of idiocy number one right there. Second,

213
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,560
Speaker 3: he was willing, at one point talking to his lawyers

214
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 3: to destroy the documents to try to get out of

215
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,480
Speaker 3: the jam he was in, which means he would no

216
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 3: longer have the documents, which means he's okay not having

217
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 3: the documents, which means just give them back, man, and

218
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:07,800
Speaker 3: then you're out of this. Like, then you're out of trouble.

219
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,560
Speaker 3: Even if you moved boxes around and did shenanigans for months,

220
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 3: if you eventually gave the documents back, there's no way

221
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,040
Speaker 3: the prosecutors could come and say, well, he held on

222
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:20,320
Speaker 3: to these documents for longer than we would have liked.

223
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,800
Speaker 3: Therefore we're going to launch the first prosecution of a

224
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 3: former president. Like, no way, I think would they have

225
00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 3: gotten away with that. Only his actions in this case

226
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 3: made it possible for them to do it. Now I'm

227
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,559
Speaker 3: excited for a bigger case to come like that. I

228
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 3: don't I don't get excited about seeing a president get

229
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 3: locked up for paperwork and classified document stuff. Rather, I

230
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,040
Speaker 3: would like to see him prosecuted for a coup attempt

231
00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,800
Speaker 3: or something something bigger, like let's go to the part case. Yeah,

232
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:52,840
Speaker 3: let's go to the heart of the system and like

233
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,599
Speaker 3: actually battle it out there. Otherwise I say leave it

234
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:56,200
Speaker 3: to the voters.

235
00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,840
Speaker 4: No, I mean, obviously leave it to the voters. Is

236
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,560
Speaker 4: my position that as.

237
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,760
Speaker 5: Well, now we should say there is no trial date

238
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,679
Speaker 5: yet set. It is still supposed to be handled by

239
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,920
Speaker 5: Eileen Cannon. That's on her docket. She's a federal district

240
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,960
Speaker 5: judge in South Florida, actually was appointed by Donald Trump.

241
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,320
Speaker 5: So there may be interesting developments in that case. And

242
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,800
Speaker 5: let's put up a three. This is a thread from

243
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,800
Speaker 5: Jonathan Turley, who has actually really defended He's a professor

244
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,160
Speaker 5: at the GW George Washington University Law School. If you

245
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,040
Speaker 5: watch Fox, you'll see Jonathan Turley fairly frequently. He's sort

246
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:36,200
Speaker 5: of a defender of Donald Trump against the excesses of

247
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,319
Speaker 5: the what would you say, like the intelligence community, the DOJ,

248
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,920
Speaker 5: the FBI over the last several years. Really cojin, I

249
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,560
Speaker 5: think helpful arguments in many cases that you don't hear

250
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 5: in corporate press, but that are actually like substantive and helpful.

251
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,920
Speaker 5: He says, though, that there's an ironic element to.

252
00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 4: The pylon in these cases.

253
00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 5: With the cases in New York, two cases in New York, Miami,

254
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,160
Speaker 5: and then one expected in Georgia, Trump dance card is

255
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,640
Speaker 5: filling up fast. While federal cases are often given priority,

256
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 5: the multiple fronts could reduce the window for the federal trial.

257
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:09,360
Speaker 4: Why does that matter?

258
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 5: Well, because we are six months out from actually being

259
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 5: in a presidential year. The Republican primary has already started

260
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 5: in earnest.

261
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:17,520
Speaker 4: What do you make of that point?

262
00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 3: Ryan great point he's got so many charges is they

263
00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,440
Speaker 3: don't have time to try him. And the other point

264
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,760
Speaker 3: that I think people are missing is that, let's say,

265
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,480
Speaker 3: by some miracle, you get through this trial, you get

266
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,600
Speaker 3: two of the conviction phase, he's found guilty, which I

267
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,400
Speaker 3: think I think a jury of all Trump supporters would

268
00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,880
Speaker 3: find him guilty in this case, because there is I

269
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 3: feel like there's still a sanctity in the jury process

270
00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,600
Speaker 3: and in the criminal justice system that people feel, even

271
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,360
Speaker 3: as they might hold contradictory opinions about the nature of

272
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,839
Speaker 3: the republic, etc. I do think even a Trump in

273
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,680
Speaker 3: panel jury, Trump supporting panel jury would be like, yeah,

274
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,720
Speaker 3: you did this, Like you're guilty of at least some

275
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 3: of these counts. But let's say that happens. There's then sentencing,

276
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 3: so he's released awaiting sentencing, and there's the appeals and

277
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 3: Eileen Cannon is going to allow him to go free

278
00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,880
Speaker 3: obviously during the appeals process, and as so as long

279
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 3: as that's playing out, I think this just becomes a

280
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,840
Speaker 3: news event rather than something that puts him like behind

281
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,520
Speaker 3: bars even with a conviction until the election. Like, I

282
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 3: don't see any way that this gets done before the election.

283
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,040
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll say, you could you know, say this

284
00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,160
Speaker 3: clip and play it if he's getting hauled off in

285
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:26,280
Speaker 3: handcuffs before the election.

286
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, well yeah, it doesn't seem like any of this

287
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 8: is likely to be resolved before the election at all,

288
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 8: which again to the other point about the potency of

289
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:39,320
Speaker 8: the campaign argument about being the target of the sort

290
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 8: of transition to banana republic America, which you know, if you.

291
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 5: Think that we've become a banana republic, you may think

292
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:51,120
Speaker 5: that that started a long time before the Trump indictments.

293
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,600
Speaker 5: But if you don't think we've become a banana republic,

294
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,800
Speaker 5: that's another question. I'm going to get into a lot

295
00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,840
Speaker 5: of this and our block later in the show, so don't.

296
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 4: Want to get too far.

297
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 3: We do have a little more complaining from Trump. I think, yes,

298
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,120
Speaker 3: rolled this was it a two. I think this is

299
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,880
Speaker 3: some more gripes from former President Donald Trump.

300
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,800
Speaker 9: Today we witnessed the most evil and heinous' abusive power

301
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 9: in the history of our country.

302
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 6: Very sad thing to watch a.

303
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:23,320
Speaker 9: Corrupt sitting president had his top political opponent arrested on

304
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 9: fake and fabricated charges of which he and numerous other

305
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 9: presidents would be guilty, right in the middle of a

306
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 9: presidential election in which he is losing very badly. This

307
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 9: is called election interference and yet another attempt to rig

308
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:49,280
Speaker 9: and steal a presidential election. More importantly, it's a political persecution,

309
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,800
Speaker 9: like something straight out of a fascist or communist nation.

310
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,840
Speaker 9: This day we'll go down in infamy, and Joe Biden

311
00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 9: will forever be remembered as not only the most corrupt

312
00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 9: president to the history of our country, but perhaps even

313
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 9: more importantly, the president who, together with the band of

314
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:12,760
Speaker 9: his closest thugs, misfits and Marxist, tried to destroy American democracy.

315
00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,320
Speaker 3: Marxist never sounds like natural coming out of It's always

316
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 3: off a teleprompter.

317
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 7: You know.

318
00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 5: Trump thinks a lot about Marxism. On that note, let's

319
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 5: roll a four. This is Mark Arubio making a connection

320
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 5: sort of back to again.

321
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,440
Speaker 4: This clear messaging that's I.

322
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,320
Speaker 5: Think probably potent with a certain swath of the electorate,

323
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 5: connecting the dots between all kinds of crazy things that

324
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 5: people might see happening in their world and the indictment itself.

325
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 10: You think this sends here. The next Republican president is

326
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,720
Speaker 10: going to be under tremendous pressure to bring charges and

327
00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 10: indict Joe Biden, his family, his crackhead son, whoever. The

328
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:51,520
Speaker 10: pressure is going to be extraordinary. They're going to turn

329
00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 10: us into So we're decadent and we're in decline.

330
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 3: Because we are.

331
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 10: We thought we could do anything we wanted with our economy.

332
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 10: We could center jobs and factories overseas, break our politics,

333
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 10: break our culture, break our society. We don't need parents,

334
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,760
Speaker 10: we don't neighborhood, we don't need family anymore. All these

335
00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,360
Speaker 10: crazy ideas, and now reality is catching up.

336
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 3: No doubt, we're in some type of vicious cycle. We'll

337
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,679
Speaker 3: see where it heads. We'll keep covering that. Moving on

338
00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 3: to Ukraine, extraordinarily reporting from the Wall Street Journal, if

339
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:24,040
Speaker 3: we can put this first up, which finds that, according

340
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 3: to the US intelligence sources, the US warned Ukraine please

341
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,760
Speaker 3: do not attack the nord Stream pipeline. This follows previous

342
00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,280
Speaker 3: reporting that came from the Washington Post that said that

343
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:40,200
Speaker 3: a unidentified European intelligence service had told the United States, Hey,

344
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 3: look out, the Ukrainians are planning in June to rent

345
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,040
Speaker 3: a boat. Half a dozen of them are going to

346
00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:47,680
Speaker 3: go blow up blow up the Nord Stream pipeline in

347
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 3: connection with this kind of NATO exercise that's going on.

348
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 3: We now know that that was the Netherlands, according to

349
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,000
Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal, So Dutch intelligence told the US intelligence.

350
00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 3: US intelligence then relate it to Germany. Now we know,

351
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 3: according to these sources, that the US also reached out

352
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,480
Speaker 3: to Ukraine and said do not do this. And there's

353
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 3: a fascinating line in the Wall Street Journal piece that

354
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:14,159
Speaker 3: says the United States asked its Ukrainian counterparts whether it

355
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,199
Speaker 3: was true that they were planning to blow up the

356
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,919
Speaker 3: North Stream pipeline, and the Wall Street Journal says it

357
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 3: is not known what the response from the Ukrainians was.

358
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 3: Did the Ukrainians feel like they had a green light

359
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,399
Speaker 3: at that point despite whatever warnings were being given by

360
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 3: the United States. The reporting is that they told them

361
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 3: not to do it, they did it anyway. So are

362
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 3: they a rogue client or was there some backchanneling that

363
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 3: maybe this is something that the United States is comfortable with.

364
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 4: I think this is an absolutely huge report for so many.

365
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 5: Reasons, because particularly what you just flagged, which is This

366
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,480
Speaker 5: is a quote from the Wall Street Journal report quote,

367
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 5: it couldn't be determined how the Ukrainians responded. What do

368
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,200
Speaker 5: you mean It couldn't be determined how the Ukrainians responded because.

369
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 4: Clearly this is a leak from the CIA to the Wall.

370
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,160
Speaker 3: Street In other words, the CIA won't tell them.

371
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,640
Speaker 5: Exactly, but the CIA will tell them that they knew

372
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,800
Speaker 5: in advance of the plan, Which gets to when we

373
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 5: were talking about the Washington Post story not too long ago.

374
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,239
Speaker 5: It really felt like American intel agencies trying to wash

375
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 5: their hands of this and say we know who it is.

376
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 5: But in the process of saying we know who it

377
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 5: was and it wasn't us, they're revealing that they may

378
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,679
Speaker 5: have been able to stop it. And I think this

379
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 5: is connected with more big news. This is also from

380
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 5: the Wall Street Journal. We could go ahead and put

381
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 5: b two up on the screen. Think about these two

382
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 5: stories at the same time. Here's the headline, US set

383
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 5: to have proved depleted uranium tank rounds for Ukraine.

384
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:41,720
Speaker 4: This is from the Journal.

385
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 5: The Biden administration is expected to provide Ukraine with depleted

386
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 5: uranium rounds following weeks of internal debate about how to

387
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 5: equip the Abrams tanks the US is giving a Kiev,

388
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 5: US officials said Monday.

389
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,360
Speaker 4: The proposal has been debated at the.

390
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 5: White House, where some officials have expressed concern that sending

391
00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,040
Speaker 5: the rounds might open Washington to criticism that it was

392
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 5: providing a weapon that may carry health and environmental risks. Okay,

393
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 5: so more stuff headed over to Ukraine. And at the

394
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,639
Speaker 5: same time, we don't even know what was going on

395
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,560
Speaker 5: with the CIA and with Ukraine. Clearly we were not

396
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,479
Speaker 5: involved in their plans when it came to blowing up

397
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 5: the Nord Stream pipeline.

398
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 4: We may have had knowledge and didn't.

399
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 5: Stop it or per the Wall Street Journal's report, it

400
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 5: said the CIA actually determined they couldn't take it. Seriously,

401
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,800
Speaker 5: they didn't think Ukraine had the capacity. It's an exact

402
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,200
Speaker 5: quote from here. They didn't think Ukraine had the capacity

403
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 5: to carry out such an attack. So we can be

404
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 5: that ignorant of actually the country, the military operations of

405
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,919
Speaker 5: the country that we are sending so much equipment to,

406
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 5: and these two headlines can appear basically side by side

407
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 5: in a matter of days together.

408
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 4: It's remarkable.

409
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 3: But I think providing depleted uranium to a war effort

410
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 3: in this part of the world would only matter if

411
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 3: there's some type of significant agricultural production going on over there.

412
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 3: Are you familiar with whether or not in Ukraine and

413
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,120
Speaker 3: this area do they grow much wheat or anything over there?

414
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 3: Do they supply much to the global population, Because if not,

415
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 3: I don't think the globe has much to worry about it.

416
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 3: But if they do, then maybe you know, dropping depleted

417
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,159
Speaker 3: uranium rounds in the bread basket of the world is

418
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,320
Speaker 3: not the most thought out plan.

419
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 4: You'd think you'd think.

420
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 5: And yet this is in the context of the Spring offensive,

421
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,280
Speaker 5: which became a summer offensive. We're hearing spring offensive for

422
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 5: so long turns into a summer offensive, and so the

423
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 5: argument from Ukraine, this is also in the general report,

424
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,000
Speaker 5: is that.

425
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 4: If you don't supply us with.

426
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 5: This heavy equipment now, then Russia is able to hold

427
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,959
Speaker 5: their own during the offensive. Offensive doesn't go as planned

428
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 5: and you start losing support in Congress. Support from Congress

429
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 5: starts to wane because it's not the momentum has shifted.

430
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,399
Speaker 5: People are getting exhausted of the war. So you give

431
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 5: us what we need now. But of course this has

432
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 5: been the argument at every point in the war. We

433
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 5: need to go full im pedal to the metal every

434
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 5: step of the way, because if we don't, we're going

435
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 5: to have to keep going pedal to the medal everyoy.

436
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it has its cycle, right, it has its

437
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,560
Speaker 3: own momentum, in its own logic. If you're going to

438
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: supply the tanks under pressure, you finally agree, okay, we're

439
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 3: doing these tanks. Then if you only supply the kind

440
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 3: of generic rounds, then they start to get wiped out

441
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 3: by Russian forces. And so then you come back and say, well,

442
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 3: if you're supplying the tanks, then you've got to give

443
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,399
Speaker 3: us the depleted uranium rounds because the tanks aren't as

444
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 3: effective if you don't give us those depleted your BRAINIU rounds.

445
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 3: You do that, you're like, oh, well, we need air

446
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 3: support for these because now we've got these multimillion dollar tanks, yes,

447
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 3: that are just getting you know, lit up all over

448
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 3: the place. We don't want that. And now we need

449
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,840
Speaker 3: longer surface to air missiles because you know, now we

450
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 3: need to protect our airsport. Now we need more land

451
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 3: to land missiles because we need to reach further behind

452
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 3: because you know, we got to defend against the artiller.

453
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 3: They are taking our tanks and next thing, you know,

454
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: you know, we've spent another couple hundred billion dollars moving

455
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 3: weapons over there.

456
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, And let's put B three up on the screen,

457
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,400
Speaker 5: because this is also important context. You have in Germany

458
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 5: right now, the biggest NATO drill, the biggest NATO military

459
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 5: exercise I'm reading from DW quote since the military Alliance

460
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 5: was formed in nineteen forty nine, and Germany is serving

461
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 5: as the host in the logistical hub.

462
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 4: So this is happening right now from.

463
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 5: June twelfth to June twenty third, two hundred and fifty

464
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 5: aircraft up to two hundred and fifty will be stationed

465
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: across six military bases, with twenty five countries taking part.

466
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 5: The US alone is sending one hundred aircraft across the

467
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 5: Atlantic over to this drill. And now here is a

468
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 5: quote from a someone at the German Institute for International

469
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 5: and Security Affairs, Torben Arnold. He says, quote, of course,

470
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 5: this sense a clear signal saying that even though this

471
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 5: airspace is extremely busy, they are prepared to say we

472
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 5: will defend every centimeter of NATO territory, every centimeter of

473
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 5: NATO territory. We've got Sweden about to join NATO probably

474
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 5: in a month or so, and all of this like

475
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 5: really really really fine line that is being towed, every

476
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 5: fine line that's being towed, with the equipment that keeps

477
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 5: getting sent over, the intelligence reports that keep coming out,

478
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 5: is happening in the context of this really fragile ecosystem,

479
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:33,760
Speaker 5: NATO ecosystem, and really fragile balance with two nuclear powers

480
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 5: essentially engaged in a proxy war.

481
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 3: However, there was a massive blow dealt to Russia yesterday

482
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: with when Emily's favorite author, Elizabeth Gilbert, the author of

483
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 3: the viral sensation best selling author Eat Prey Love.

484
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: Before virality was really a thing yux.

485
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 3: She sold more than twelve million copies of this book,

486
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 3: Eat Prey Love, and she's got a new one out

487
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 3: that is set in Siberia the nineteen nineties, and amid

488
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 3: pushback from Ukrainians that worried that the novel would somehow

489
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: kind of glamorize or humanize Russia, she has pulled it back, apologized.

490
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,640
Speaker 3: I don't know if she's going to reset it somewhere

491
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 3: else or just hold back until she feels like the

492
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: temperature has cooled down and you can write a book

493
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 3: about Russia obviously raises all sorts of questions. Are we

494
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: allowed to read Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, etc. But this feels like

495
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 3: the kind of thing you're going to get before a

496
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: fever breaks. Like this feels like fever activity, like total delirium.

497
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 4: You're saying this isn't rational, insane?

498
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Elizabeth Gilbert can set her next story

499
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 3: in Siberian Russia in nineteen nineties and it's not actually

500
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 3: going to help the Russian war effort. That's my take.

501
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 5: Well, actually, when I was reading this story, which is absurd,

502
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 5: by the way, I think the message of Eat, Pray

503
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 5: Love is largely terrible. The book is very readable. The

504
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 5: film is very watchable as well. Julie Roberts does a

505
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 5: great jobs. But this is an interesting little thing. From

506
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 5: the report, Gilbert announced she was pausing the project due

507
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 5: to from Politico, a massive outpouring of reactions from Ukrainian

508
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 5: readers who worried the book would romanticize Russia at a

509
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 5: time when the country's accused of committing war crimes. Over

510
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 5: the weekend, more than five hundred people dished out one

511
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 5: star reviews on the Goodreads platform, while others reacted with

512
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 5: frustration to the initial book announcement on Twitter.

513
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 4: So there you have it.

514
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 5: As soon as it starts hurting the bottom line because

515
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 5: people flood Goodreads with one star reviews, she yanks the

516
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 5: book and puts out the statement about how it's potentially

517
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 5: harmful to Ukraine during this war, and maybe Elizabeth Gilbert

518
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 5: has enough money, and it is just really genuinely sensitive

519
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 5: to the criticism.

520
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 4: Either way, when.

521
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 5: You have a book coming out that's going to be

522
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 5: flooded with one star review saying you're a Putin stooge,

523
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 5: it makes sense that she's like, hey, I don't think

524
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 5: it makes sense. I shouldn't say it makes sense, but

525
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,199
Speaker 5: you can see the logic behind the publisher and Elizabeth

526
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 5: Gilbert putting their heads together and saying we need to

527
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 5: rethink this whole thing.

528
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: I feel like, though, for a book like that, no

529
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 3: press is bad press, and I think she still would

530
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 3: have sold a ton of copies and maybe even sold

531
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 3: more copies because of the controversy, because now I didn't

532
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 3: know Elizabeth Gilbert had a new novel coming out about

533
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: Russia or about set in Russia. Now I know now

534
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: maybe it's on my list when it eventually does come out.

535
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: But so this I feel like this is more cultural

536
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,639
Speaker 3: pressure than it is commercial pressure, because I don't think

537
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 3: she would have I don't think this would have hurt

538
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 3: her commercially. I think she still gets booked on Fresh Air,

539
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 3: et cetera.

540
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 4: Well, it's a really good point.

541
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 5: I think it's the cultural pressure that creates the commercial

542
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 5: pressure in the sense that Elizabeth Gilbert, there's this it's

543
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 5: a very real thing with cancel culture, where people know

544
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 5: that like no press is bad press, and something will

545
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 5: suddenly get a ton of attention, like look at Joe

546
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 5: Rogan thriving.

547
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: No matter how much.

548
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 5: The corporate press tries to say that he's a bigot

549
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 5: and a conspiracy theorist and a crazy.

550
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 4: Person, doesn't matter. He does just fine.

551
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 5: But if you run in Manhattan literary circles, then the

552
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 5: cancel culture is very real because the people who are

553
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 5: responsive to it are going to be the ones that

554
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 5: make it uncomfortable for you in those spaces, and maybe

555
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 5: on Fresh Air, maybe the politics and pros tour that

556
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 5: you wanted to go on. That's where it becomes problematic.

557
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 5: And to somebody like Elizabeth Gilbert, who already has enough money,

558
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 5: what hurts at this point is sort of taking away

559
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 5: this taking some stuff out of the virtue signal deposit bank.

560
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 5: That's like the worst thing that can happen to you,

561
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 5: not withdrawing from the actual bank.

562
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 4: Account love on this show.

563
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.

564
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 4: I don't know, I actually have a copy.

565
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 5: Well, we have a big news, a big report to

566
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 5: go through. That was news broken just yesterday by Matt

567
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 5: Tayubi and Michael Shallenberger over on their substacks at Public

568
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 5: and Racket, both great publications. This is a huge development,

569
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 5: I think, and we're going to learn more about it.

570
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 5: Seems like as lowly as the week goes on. Ryan,

571
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: I'm super curious to get your reaction to the news

572
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 5: they broke.

573
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 4: Here's the crux of it.

574
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 5: According to multiple US government officials interviewed as part of

575
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 5: a lengthy investigation by Public and Racket, the first people

576
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 5: infected by the virus by COVID nineteen patients zero included

577
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 5: Ben Who, a researcher who led the Wuhan Institute of

578
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 5: Virologies gain a function research on stars like coronaviruses, which

579
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 5: increases the infectiousness of the viruses. Sources within the US

580
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 5: government say that three of the earliest people to become

581
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 5: infected with stars COVID two were Ben who You Ping,

582
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 5: and Yan Shu, all members of the Wuhan lab expected

583
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 5: to have leaked the pandemic virus. They were working with

584
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 5: the closest relatives as SARS COVID two and inserting gain

585
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 5: a function.

586
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 4: Features unique time.

587
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 5: Who you followed the story really closely, the intercepts and

588
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 5: some of the best reporting on the potential for the

589
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 5: lab league. What do you make of the scoop here

590
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 5: from Shallenberger and Teybi.

591
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was nice of them to credit us with

592
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: some of that reporting in their piece. And I want

593
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: to shade my comments here for people who don't regularly

594
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 3: watch the show, because I think people who normally do

595
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: probably have a lot of this context and probably already

596
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: trust both Matt Tayibi and or Michael Schallenberger. There's an

597
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 3: enormous number of people who don't. And I've had my

598
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: debates with Shallenberger, and I'm you know, and I think

599
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: he's an interesting person to engage with, but I'm not

600
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: going to take what he says as like gospel. So

601
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 3: let's start from that perspective, but go through what he found.

602
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: So they have government sources that are saying that the

603
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: three people that were infected in November twenty nineteen were

604
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: Ben who you ping, and Yan Jew And like you said,

605
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 3: Ben Who is it kind of the top protege of

606
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 3: a woman who ran the WIV And if it can

607
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: be confirmed that Ben Who was the first or among

608
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: the first people infected, that is a game changer.

609
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 4: Smoking gun.

610
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 3: Now, there's a lot of reason now, and this is

611
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: back to the people who might have some skepticisms, There's

612
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons to believe that this is true.

613
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 3: One is that in May of twenty twenty one, the

614
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: Wall Street Journal reported that according to US intelligence sources,

615
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: three Wuhan lab workers were sick and in November twenty nineteen.

616
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 3: So we have known at least that the intelligence community

617
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 3: believed that to be a fact since May twenty twenty one.

618
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: If you look at the timeline, and if you look

619
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: at the source of the Wall Street Journal Murdoch Paper,

620
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 3: it seems possible that those are Trump administration officials who

621
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: had access to that information. And even though they were

622
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 3: out of office by January twenty twenty one, May is

623
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: close enough that they may have been the sources of

624
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: this information, and so the left then Democrats are going

625
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: to have some skepticism about that. But we know, but

626
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: we do know that there were intelligence reports at the

627
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 3: time that said three workers. Now were those workers that

628
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 3: picked it up at say, the wet market and then

629
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: came to work and just you know, the you know,

630
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 3: COVID was everywhere in Wuhan, not just at the wet market,

631
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 3: and so there were still those questions outstanding. If if

632
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 3: it turns out now the wet market was January and February, December,

633
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 3: January February that there was this outbreak there, so November

634
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense. You can't go back in time. However,

635
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 3: let's say that was already spreading in November. It depends

636
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 3: who those workers are. If it's confirmed that it was

637
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: these three workers who were working directly on the stars

638
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: COVID like touch stars, like Chmeric viruses, that that's a

639
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: huge development and really backs up all of that, all

640
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: of that previous reporting. The other key point, I think,

641
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 3: and I and good on Shellenburger for including this. He

642
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: wrote that he and TeV wrote that other news outlets

643
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 3: have been circling this. Yes, and we often as reporters.

644
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: You know, it's called hearing footsteps. In the business, we

645
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: hear footsteps, and sometimes you move your pieces a little

646
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: bit further because you hear those footsteps. Usually it's reporters

647
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: don't include that. But I like the transparency of that

648
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: because now we're going to find out, Okay, is that true?

649
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 3: And can these other outlets. The Times of London, by

650
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 3: the way, has done some really interesting reporting on this.

651
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 3: Can those other outlets land this same scoop? Because there

652
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 3: there is going to be soon testimony that the administration

653
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 3: is giving the Congress, and there are other and there

654
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: are other reports that are supposed to be coming and

655
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 3: Shellenberger and TV are shining a spotlight on those. So

656
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: are they going to come out? So I think if

657
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 3: you're somebody who's super skeptical of both Tybi and Schellenberger,

658
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: you can just wait a couple of days, a couple

659
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 3: days because they because they have kind of lay it

660
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: put out on the line like this, believe that this

661
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 3: is that this isn't the last you'll hear about this.

662
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 5: Yes, So they have a source, they say, who was

663
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 5: asked how certain they were that these were the identities

664
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 5: of the three Wuhan Institute Virology scientists who developed symptoms

665
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 5: consisted with COVID nineteen in the fall of twenty nineteen.

666
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 5: When they asked, we were told, quote one hundred percent.

667
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 5: Another thing to note from the report from Matt Mike

668
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 5: and then Alex S. Guten Tag with third reporter on

669
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 5: the byline is next week the DNI is expected to

670
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 5: release previously classified material, which may include the names of

671
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 5: the three scientists who are the likely among the first

672
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 5: to be sickened by Sary's code two. So keep that

673
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 5: in mind that they expect, based on their reporting, the

674
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 5: Director of National Intelligence next week to release a report

675
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 5: that actually names the three scientists involved. They also have

676
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 5: a source saying there are one hundred percent certain those

677
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 5: are the three scientists, and the Times of London quotes

678
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 5: an anonymous US State Department investigator.

679
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 4: This was on Saturday.

680
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 5: Quote it has been increasingly clear that the Wuhan Institute

681
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 5: of Rology was involved in the c creation, promulgation and

682
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 5: cover up of the COVID nineteen pandemic. One thing I

683
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 5: like about their report is they're onto a similar line

684
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 5: that we've talked about a little bit, which is, why

685
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 5: do you have Anthony Fauci continuing to sort of try

686
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 5: with Francis Kahns to steer the media's and the public's

687
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 5: attention away from the Eco Health Alliance. Grant, why do

688
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 5: you have them trying to just credit the lab leak

689
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 5: theory when, for instance, the United States government really does

690
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 5: see China as a hostile foreign adversary, especially the Trump administration.

691
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 4: There's no like that. It wasn't as though he.

692
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 5: Was like really soft and easy on China and never

693
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 5: really missed a rhetorical opportunity to bluster for the most part.

694
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 4: So why would they step away from that?

695
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 5: Well, because if we can establish these connections to the

696
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 5: Wuhan Institute of Orology.

697
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 4: Which look very very clear.

698
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,759
Speaker 5: At this point, they quote an expert saying the ben

699
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 5: Hu thing is a real smoking gun.

700
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 4: I completely agree with that.

701
00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:00,439
Speaker 5: And if you establish that connection, then man, it's bad

702
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 5: for the United States government because it looks like we

703
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 5: may have had a role.

704
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 4: We may have had a.

705
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 5: Role in funding it, in funding research that was being

706
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 5: done sloppily without proper oversight. They show a video actually

707
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 5: from the whun Institute of Arology, and I think ben

708
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 5: who actually in the public and racket report from Chinese

709
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 5: state media before the pandemic, where nobody is wearing proper

710
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 5: protective gear.

711
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: You can watch the video at that public post, and

712
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 3: they're just messing around with vials, like without even gog,

713
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 3: like without even like the poor protection like goggles and

714
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 3: like a thin mask, like not even that.

715
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 5: And so if you can imagine being, for instance, Mike Pompeo,

716
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 5: Secretary of State, Donald Trump, President Trump administration in general,

717
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 5: sort of being opposed to the permanent bureaucratic state at

718
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 5: places like the NIH and the people like Anthony Fauci

719
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 5: over the course of your presidency and getting intelligence reports

720
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 5: like we know at this point, you know, the CIA,

721
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 5: Mike Pompeo State Department, they seem to have known since

722
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 5: the very beginning. In Pompeo would say this, it has

723
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 5: always been clear through the intelligence that the lab leak

724
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 5: was plausible, if not likely. And imagine you're getting those

725
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 5: briefings you're Trump and you're Pompeo or whomever else, and

726
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 5: you're the one that's overseeing Fauci, and you realize that

727
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 5: he may be invested in some sort of cover up

728
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 5: just to cover his own butt because there was our money,

729
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 5: taxpayer money, was being sent over there without any oversight

730
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 5: at all basically and could have been involved in a

731
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 5: leak from the lab because there was no oversight.

732
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and ideologically too was Fauci's a huge champion of

733
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 3: gain A function research and pushed back against the pause.

734
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 3: Last point, the public racket article includes comments from Alina Chan,

735
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 3: who we've had on this, who we've had on our show,

736
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: is one of the first and most prominent kind of

737
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 3: skeptics of the natural origin theory, wrote a book on it,

738
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 3: and so I think for people who are curious about this,

739
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 3: I think her kind of validation of this, of this story,

740
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: I think is important. Absolutely, we got some Reddit news.

741
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 4: We do have some Reddit news.

742
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 3: So over a reddit you may have noticed, if you're

743
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 3: headed over there, that a bunch of the subreddits have

744
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: gone dark. So let's first of all the basics as

745
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 3: I understand it. You tell me what you understand about

746
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 3: this Reddit for many years did not have an app.

747
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: They didn't have a phone app, and so people developed

748
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: apps for it because it's which is a very reddit

749
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,399
Speaker 3: type of thing to do. It's a community driven bottom up.

750
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 3: They call it the front page of the Internet, but

751
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: it's it's to me other than Wikipedia, it's the most

752
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: successful kind of broadly moderated community, kind of radical anarchist

753
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 3: expression of a utopian vision of the Internet. And so

754
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: you had a bunch of different companies that then that

755
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 3: made apps that people have been used, and they relied

756
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 3: on access to reddits API to build that app. Now

757
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 3: Reddit is charging. They say they're going to start charging

758
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 3: these companies for this API in ways that the companies say,

759
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: we'll put them out of business, but in ways that

760
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: Reddit says are just necessary to cover their own costs

761
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: of hosting and that sort of thing.

762
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 5: And so subreddits, about thirty five hundred subredits in total,

763
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,879
Speaker 5: are going dark. They're protesting this by making their communities

764
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,759
Speaker 5: private because of the charges. So those third party app

765
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 5: developers that Reddit has said are just absolutely necessary. The

766
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 5: mods over on those subreddits have said they're making the communities.

767
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 4: Private for forty eight hours, so.

768
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 5: That means about thirty five hundred those subreddits are going

769
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 5: to be inaccessible. And those are five of the ten

770
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 5: most popular communities on the site period. So that's our gaming,

771
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 5: our music are today, I learned, and our picks each

772
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 5: have memberships of more than thirty million people. Thirty million people.

773
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 5: I'm not a big redditor at all. I rarely use Reddit.

774
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 5: But last night I was making tacos and I was

775
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 5: looking at soccer Tuesday.

776
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 4: It was Taco Tustay. Yeah, I was making tacos for

777
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: Taco Tuesday and I was.

778
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,919
Speaker 5: Looking for recipes and I only this is actually what happened.

779
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 5: I only had mozzarella cheese, and I turned, as one does,

780
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 5: to Reddit for exit some ideas about how to make

781
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 5: mozzarella cheese work really well in tacos, and please don't

782
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 5: flame me in the comments. I'm so sorry, but it's

783
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 5: all I had. And I went over to Reddit and

784
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,720
Speaker 5: two reddits that I clicked on that were offered helpful

785
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 5: information were dark, And you know what, it was awesome

786
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 5: because I just had this sense of like, this is

787
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 5: the cool thing about Reddit. It's a cool thing like

788
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 5: you said about Wikipedia, that there's still this grassroots element

789
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 5: to it, and you really can stick it to the man.

790
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 5: If you're a Reddit mod and you're just like you're

791
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 5: a mod on a subreddit, a really popular subreddit, that's

792
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 5: absolutely fantastic. That's a very cool expression of power and

793
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 5: the the it seems by the way they'd party party apps,

794
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 5: Apollo Reddit is fun Sink and red Planet. Their reddit

795
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 5: is saying that it's absolutely necessary.

796
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: They say it's multimillion.

797
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 5: They spend multimillions of dollars on hosting fees, and they

798
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 5: need to be fairly paid if they're going to keep

799
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,280
Speaker 5: supporting these apps. Quote, our pricing is based on usage

800
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 5: levels that we measure to be comparable to our own costs.

801
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 4: I'm sure they have.

802
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 5: There's some like mathematical legitimacy to that, but I think

803
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 5: what's so cool about seeing the subreddits and the mods

804
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 5: go dark is that they're showing Reddit actually with the

805
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 5: real market value of those apps is because their consumers

806
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 5: demand them.

807
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 3: Yeah. I love that you got you got stopped from

808
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: crossing the Reddit picket line, and your great in your

809
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 3: effort to find mozzrell cheese tips. It's funny what you

810
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: end up doing.

811
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,239
Speaker 5: I just use the Mozrel cheese with no fancy tips

812
00:41:59,280 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 5: at all.

813
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 4: I just on a cast.

814
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: It was fine.

815
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:02,359
Speaker 4: It was totally fine.

816
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 3: But how bad can it be?

817
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 5: No, it was fine, But again, like I didn't even

818
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 5: realize this was happening, because this was before I started

819
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 5: the show. Prep really in earnest, and so wasn't I

820
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 5: wasn't trying to cross the pigling, but that said, I

821
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 5: do like it.

822
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 4: Just when that happened, I.

823
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 5: Was like, this is actually really cool, because this does

824
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 5: matter to Reddit if people are getting bocked out by

825
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 5: the mods that their platform empowers. Like, what is central

826
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 5: to Reddit's business model right now is that they have

827
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 5: people who volunteer as mods and keep these platforms in

828
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 5: good shape by Reddit standards. They're relying on free voluntary labor,

829
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 5: and that free voluntary labor saying no.

830
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 3: Interesting thing to think about is did you follow the

831
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 3: report recently a couple of weeks or maybe months ago

832
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 3: at this point, about Alexis o'hannian stepping down from the

833
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 3: board of Reddit, And so for people who didn't follow this,

834
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 3: Alexis is a co founder of Reddit, kind of founder

835
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 3: also Trivia, married to Serena william that's his real claim

836
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: to fame, and he when he announced he was stepping

837
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 3: down from his role in the company, he said he

838
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 3: wanted to be able to look his children in the

839
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 3: eye and said he did everything to advance the cause

840
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 3: of equity, and so he didn't want to be the

841
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: white guy who was, you know, sitting in the seat

842
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 3: that ought to be held by a black woman or

843
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 3: black man, and so he said, I'm going to leave

844
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 3: the board as long as my replacement is. I think

845
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: it was a black woman, maybe a black person of

846
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: either gender or I can't quite remember. But it raises

847
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 3: a question of did he see this train wreck coming?

848
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 3: Like did he? And and kind of did that contribute

849
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 3: to his interest in being like, you know what, this

850
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 3: is going to be a mess. Let me let me

851
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 3: step aside here. Whether or not he did or didn't there,

852
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 3: it does point to this phenomenon that and there's a

853
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 3: name for it. People in the comments might know for it,

854
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 3: but it was coined around the time that black men

855
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: mostly I think it's all black men started winning the

856
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 3: oral elections in the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, just

857
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 3: as de industrialization was kind of ripping the guts out

858
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 3: of the cities. And another example of the phenomenon is

859
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 3: that just as medical doctor salaries kind of plateau and

860
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 3: then start to decline slightly, that's when medical schools start

861
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 3: letting in lots of women. So it's as soon as

862
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 3: things start to take a turn and become more difficult,

863
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 3: that's when white men are like all right, you know what,

864
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 3: let's let everybody in here. So it may be a

865
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 3: total coincidence, but it seems like another example of that

866
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 3: phenomenon at work that is.

867
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 5: Really interesting, and read it as an example of sort

868
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 5: of disruption post twenty sixteen, I would say disruption the

869
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 5: tech community in general when you had platforms like Reddit,

870
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 5: like Facebook, like Twitter. Twitter is another really good example

871
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 5: of this being run very differently because there was a

872
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 5: different set of pressures, or actually there was a lack

873
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 5: of pressures relative to what there is now on those

874
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 5: platforms has caused I think, whether these things are directly

875
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 5: connected to that or not. The heightened business pressures because

876
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 5: you have way more government oversight post twenty sixteen for

877
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 5: various reasons, some of which.

878
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: Are good and some of which are bad.

879
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 5: I think that's really caused a lot of tension and

880
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 5: strain inside.

881
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: And I saw a post on Twitter that tried to

882
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 3: explain this phenomenon as this is like nine to eleven

883
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 3: for the worst person that you know, which okay points

884
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: for being funny, but I don't think that's quite fair

885
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 3: to Reddit. And I really am rooting for Reddit and

886
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 3: redditors to kind of resolve this and keep the site thriving. Yeah, no,

887
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 3: as even if that was a pretty funny quip.

888
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 5: Absolutely two things can be true at the same time,

889
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 5: speaking of things that we're trying to figure out whether

890
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 5: or not they're true, Starbucks is reportedly we can put

891
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 5: this first element up on the screen from the New Republic.

892
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 5: The New Republic reported that Starbucks denied its union's allegations

893
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 5: of a ban on pride, a ban on pride decorations. Essentially,

894
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,800
Speaker 5: this is something we also saw allegedly happen over at Target.

895
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 4: But originally the story was that it was way more heavily.

896
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 5: The New Republic was reporting way more heavily on the

897
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 5: side of the union's allegations being credible.

898
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 4: Right the Starbucks union.

899
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,720
Speaker 5: Their original headline, I think was actually that Starbucks banned

900
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 5: pride decorations according to union.

901
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: If you can go back to the URL actually because

902
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: URLs are forever, yes, and the RL is Starbucks take

903
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 3: down Pride decorations, discussing cave far right.

904
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 4: There you go, and then it's like mad loves right right.

905
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,560
Speaker 3: And so then the story was updated when Starbucks came

906
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 3: out and said, look, this is not our policy. We're

907
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 3: not stopping pride decorations from being put up. However, that

908
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 3: produced a response from the union, which was the original

909
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 3: source of this claim, saying that even if there isn't

910
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: a corporate directive that has been launched, it is the

911
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: functional policy that they're seeing on the ground. We could

912
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 3: let's just roll one. This is one typical kind of

913
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,280
Speaker 3: post that that's come from Starbucks union members.

914
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 11: We're looking at here, Well, those are our marplights. We

915
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 11: have had them up every year for I don't know

916
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,359
Speaker 11: as long as I've worked here. This is the first

917
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 11: year that no one hung them up and they're.

918
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 12: Just sitting in So why are those in this bucket

919
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 12: right here instead of hanging up during Pride Month in

920
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 12: a Starbucks.

921
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 11: Well, Starbucks says that it's unsafe. We don't have a

922
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 11: ladder to be able to hang them up properly, so

923
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:36,479
Speaker 11: we're just not going to hang them up this year.

924
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 12: And so Starbucks has had these hanging up in the

925
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 12: lobby before this year, correct, every year for.

926
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 11: As long as I've worked here, which is five or

927
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 11: six years.

928
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 4: That's really crazy.

929
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 5: Can I just say quickly without having a lot of context,

930
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 5: because that's a local sort of set of allegations that

931
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 5: neither of us has talked.

932
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 4: To the people involved. What's kind of amusing. I don't

933
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 4: know if amusing is the right word. I don't want

934
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 4: to trivial anything.

935
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 5: But if this is the first year that that local

936
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 5: Starbucks has unionized and they're saying it's unsafe to put

937
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 5: up the pride decorations, there's actually a possibility that the

938
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:13,839
Speaker 5: store is scared of the union in some sense, if

939
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 5: they're putting workers in like unsafe working conditions and they

940
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 5: don't have the right kind of ladder. I'm not saying

941
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 5: that's what happened, but I'm saying that that also could

942
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 5: be a layer to this.

943
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 4: It may it may or may not be, but quickly,

944
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 4: that was my first thought when I saw it.

945
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 5: Because a lot of these Starbucks unions are within like

946
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 5: a year of existence.

947
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 3: Yes, many, there are many layers to this, no doubt.

948
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,959
Speaker 3: So let's read Starbucks spokesperson Andrew Trall's comment to the

949
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 3: New Republic. He said, we unwaveringly support the LGBTQIA two

950
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 3: plus community. There has been no change to any policy

951
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 3: on this matter, and we continue to encourage our store

952
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 3: leaders to celebrate with their communities, including for US Pride

953
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 3: month in June. We're deeply concerned by false information that

954
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,320
Speaker 3: is being spread, especially as it relates to our inclusive store's,

955
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 3: our company culture, and the benefits we offer our partners.

956
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 3: The benefits we offer our partners. That is a reference

957
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 3: to a previous claim that the Starbucks Union had made

958
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 3: that said that Starbucks had changed its gender affirming health

959
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 3: insurance policy. To push back against the union, Starbucks says,

960
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 3: that's just simply not true. That perhaps somebody had a

961
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: bad insurance experience, but that's not There has been no

962
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: change in that policy. Starbucks Union, you can find there,

963
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 3: you can find their account on Twitter. They they're putting

964
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: out a bunch of different cases of workers saying that

965
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 3: they've tried to put up Pride decorations and been told

966
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: not to either because it breaks the uniformity of stores

967
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 3: that there's been a regional director. There's a lot of

968
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 3: claims and counterclaims flying back and forth. My sense is

969
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 3: that this might also be related to the climate that

970
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: has the kind of backlash climate yeah, that was produced

971
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 3: through the bud Light boycott and the Target boycott. You

972
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 3: might just have individual managers of stores who are kind

973
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 3: of pushing back in a way that isn't reflective of

974
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 3: a corporate directive, but that maybe corporate is okay with

975
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 3: What's what's your sense of how this is unfolding?

976
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 5: You know, it wasn't until we were talking before the

977
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 5: show and you advanced that explanation that I could make

978
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 5: sense of why this is so confused regionally that you know,

979
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 5: there are probably different places, like they are different targets,

980
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 5: and we heard some regional discrepancies and how Target was

981
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 5: enforcing the way that it had perhaps moved its pride

982
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 5: displays after the tucking swimsuit controversy erupted and the boycott started,

983
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 5: that you know, in the South, for instance, or in

984
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 5: the Midwest, that Target had moved some of its pride

985
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 5: displays in ways that it may not have in California

986
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 5: and New York or something to that extent, although you

987
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 5: heard that the Burlington Target may These are all like

988
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 5: these are all just like anecdotes, but it shows that

989
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:06,359
Speaker 5: it's possible, sort of on a regional level, people who

990
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 5: get complaints even in Burlington. You know, you can have

991
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 5: a conservative family or two that complaints in Burlington and

992
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 5: to the point where the manager says, you know, the

993
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,799
Speaker 5: cost benefit analysis here it's worth it to just pop

994
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 5: this in the back for us. And so people are

995
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,280
Speaker 5: just sort of making those decisions without any overarching corporate directive.

996
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 4: That's entirely possible.

997
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 5: That makes the most sense to me that you know,

998
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 5: they're on a regional level. These pressures and sensitivities are different,

999
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 5: and what you're having is people respond to them that

1000
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 5: way as opposed to overall. Hunter Schwartz had an interesting

1001
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 5: had an interesting little report where he actually took the

1002
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 5: top ten mostly of the Fortune fifty and engauged who

1003
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 5: actually changed their logo to Pride and from last year

1004
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 5: to this year, and found that it actually was basically

1005
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 5: the same, like there was no difference. Wall Street Journal

1006
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 5: showed they had a headline that said companies quiet diversity

1007
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 5: and ability to talk amid the culture War and actually

1008
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 5: have a chart of earnings calls where executives mentioned quote

1009
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,840
Speaker 5: ESG DEI, environmental, social and governments, diversity, equity, inclusion or

1010
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 5: sustainability verbatim in their earnings calls over the recent quarters.

1011
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 4: And you do see a dip.

1012
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 5: It's still higher than what it was in twenty eighteen,

1013
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 5: so still higher post twenty twenty. But I think there

1014
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,919
Speaker 5: is something going on post bud Light, post target where

1015
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:30,200
Speaker 5: companies are extra sensitive and just realize that in the

1016
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 5: same way they were sensitive in twenty twenty.

1017
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 4: Because these companies, these guys don't believe anything.

1018
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 5: They're not red or blue, they're green, and so they

1019
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 5: ultimately side on the with money. So in twenty twenty

1020
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 5: where you see all of a sudden, all of these

1021
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 5: corporations become, you know, start giving money to open like

1022
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 5: Marxist organizations like Black Lives Matter Global Foundation, which none

1023
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 5: of them supported Marxism. Are you telling me that's insane

1024
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 5: that these like massive corporatists were just like happy to

1025
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 5: bank roll Marxism. No, they saw it as an advertisement.

1026
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 5: They saw it as a way to like rehab their

1027
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 5: public relations or to prehab their public relations. And in

1028
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 5: the same way they were sensitive to the political climate,

1029
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 5: then they're sensitive to the political climate.

1030
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 4: Now.

1031
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. One thing that is really interesting too about this

1032
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:23,760
Speaker 3: case is what it shows about some elements of today's

1033
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:27,399
Speaker 3: union movement. So what we can clearly say for sure

1034
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 3: is that this is not directly about wages and benefits.

1035
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 3: So the very traditional kind of bread and butter, nuts

1036
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 3: and bolts union movement was collective bargaining to increase, you know,

1037
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 3: increase your wages, increase your benefits, also workplace safety, and

1038
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: so I think a lot of this is being kind

1039
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,919
Speaker 3: of understood as part of safety and the idea of

1040
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:53,879
Speaker 3: we're feeling safe and comfortable at work. So I think

1041
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,800
Speaker 3: that's how workers are understanding this as related to working

1042
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 3: conditions rather than just as fighting a culture war within

1043
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 3: their own corporation. Though it is also that which is

1044
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 3: which is just an It's an interesting kind of statement

1045
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 3: in reflection on where kind of the labor movement is,

1046
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 3: particularly among young people today.

1047
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, Katie Hertzog had a good point on Twitter yesterday

1048
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 5: where she was responding to a poll that found increasing

1049
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 5: opposition to trans participation in women's sports, and just made

1050
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 5: the point that like the t of the LGBT is,

1051
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 5: you know, the support for the full sort of tea

1052
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,080
Speaker 5: agenda has dipped in a way that's reflecting on the

1053
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 5: LGB part of that you know, broader movement. And I

1054
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 5: think that's absolutely like to the point where people walk

1055
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 5: into a Scarbucks in twenty twenty three and see the

1056
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 5: Pride flag with the because because now most corporations use

1057
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 5: the full Pride flag, not just the rainbow colors, but

1058
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,920
Speaker 5: also with the pink and blue and white, if not

1059
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 5: even like more detailed flags than that.

1060
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 4: People walk and see that.

1061
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 5: That does feel divisive to them, because that feels like

1062
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,759
Speaker 5: you're saying, you know, I necessarily by shopping at the Starbucks,

1063
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 5: I'm not just looking at the flag that you know,

1064
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 5: I saw people posing with when Obergefell was handed down,

1065
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 5: But I'm seeing something that implies, you know, about books

1066
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 5: and classrooms and kids' sports and bathrooms and locker rooms,

1067
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 5: et cetera. And when you graft that package onto the

1068
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 5: other one, I think that's where you start to see

1069
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 5: the consensus breakdown and people feel like when they walk

1070
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 5: into that it is much more controversial in many parts

1071
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 5: of the country. And that's I think exactly what you

1072
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,439
Speaker 5: see happening with bud Light and with Target, where most

1073
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 5: of the country has very little opposition to gay marriage,

1074
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 5: to same sex relationships period. It's the tea that makes

1075
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 5: them feel a little less comfortable with the full thing,

1076
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 5: and that has actually increased and that's interesting and I

1077
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 5: think that's probably what companies are experiencing.

1078
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,760
Speaker 4: And one final point.

1079
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 5: Is Starbucks was really accused as a jack of ben

1080
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 5: article I referenced a lot where they quote I think

1081
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,680
Speaker 5: this was in Missouri. They quote a Starbucks worker who

1082
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 5: was trying to unionize as saying they felt like they

1083
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 5: were being forced to work as unpaid social workers or

1084
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 5: untrained social workers. And the safety question is so interesting

1085
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 5: because that's where these things clash. And if you're considering

1086
00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 5: gender affirming care, gender affirming sort of ideological policies at

1087
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 5: Starbucks as part of safety, that also comes into to

1088
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 5: clash with like, for instance, the bathroom policy that really

1089
00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,760
Speaker 5: did for Starbucks workers to act as untrained social workers

1090
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 5: and put them in situations.

1091
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 4: I mean, I saw it with my own eyes.

1092
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 5: I watched I got locked into a Starbucks, but I

1093
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,760
Speaker 5: was fine as the workers who were having to confront

1094
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 5: somebody who the police had to lock into the Starbucks

1095
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 5: in order to you know, calm right.

1096
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 3: And the whole time you think, the whole time, you're thinking,

1097
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: I don't get paid enough for this, not trained for this,

1098
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 3: and I don't get paid enough for this. People can

1099
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 3: help us out, though, because this shouldn't be a he said.

1100
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 3: She said, Like, the question is like, is Starbucks, you know,

1101
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 3: still allowing for pride decorations and stores so if you

1102
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 3: are going to Starbucks or you work at Starbucks, just

1103
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 3: let us know in the comments, like what city or

1104
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 3: town you're talking about, and whether or not you're seeing

1105
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 3: any you know you're seeing any decorations.

1106
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 5: That's right, rian you are going to be breaking down

1107
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 5: for us right here. Some of the new numbers on inflation.

1108
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 5: A little bit of good news as how a lot

1109
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,520
Speaker 5: of people are interpreting it, a lot of conversation about.

1110
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 4: Where the rate hikes go from here.

1111
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 5: But I always find it really helpful when you take

1112
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,400
Speaker 5: these numbers and make them intelligible.

1113
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 3: So what have you got today, Yeah, let's have take

1114
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 3: a look at these inflation numbers. You can put up

1115
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 3: this first tear sheet. So the headline news coming out

1116
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: of this was basically inflation cooling to its lowest reading

1117
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 3: in two years, down to four percent year over year.

1118
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 3: And so I think I think it's fun to just

1119
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:05,680
Speaker 3: take a look at where prices are flattening and where

1120
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: prices are still going up, and then think about what

1121
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 3: that tells us about our priors when it comes to

1122
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: both monetary policy, interest rate policy, and fiscal policy. Relating

1123
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 3: back to the checks that were cut a child tax credit,

1124
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 3: the American Rescue Plan, the IRA, all of these things

1125
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: that we were warned was going to cause runaway inflation.

1126
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 3: Larry Summers said that you're going to need ten percent

1127
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 3: unemployment for several years in order to kind of tame

1128
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 3: the inflation that came from the American Rescue Plan, which

1129
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 3: he described as a cataclysmic kind of policy disaster. He

1130
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 3: could not have been proven more wrong more quickly than

1131
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 3: he was. Doesn't mean he won't be invited on air

1132
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:53,240
Speaker 3: to continue opining on the way that people need to

1133
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 3: be driven into misery in order to bring down inflation.

1134
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 3: So if you go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics,

1135
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 3: you can find, uh, you know, very detailed breakdowns around

1136
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 3: you know, where prices are going up and where and

1137
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 3: whether or not, which reminds me of this funny Emily.

1138
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: Did you see the the back and forth uh with

1139
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 3: wh Who's who's the Elon Musk flunky David Sachs, David Saxson,

1140
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 3: Matt Iglesias. Sack looked at an employment report and said that, wait,

1141
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 3: three hundred ninety nine thousand jobs added. How's this possible?

1142
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 3: Everywhere I look people are getting laid off and Aglaia

1143
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:34,440
Speaker 3: is like it's in column too if you want to

1144
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 3: check out where where jobs are going up, which is

1145
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 3: which people immediately pointed out was just like that kind

1146
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 3: of a pc perhaps apocryphal quote about Nixon from a

1147
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 3: Manhattan socialite who was like, how could how could Nixon

1148
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 3: have won? I don't know anybody who voted for him.

1149
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, it is true that tech is losing

1150
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: some jobs, but there are there are people that are

1151
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:57,680
Speaker 3: hiring elsewhere. And so so if I put it out

1152
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 3: the uh uh, this this table on jobs that are

1153
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 3: the prices that are moving up and down. If you

1154
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 3: take out food and energy, you still you still have

1155
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 3: a pretty pretty cool inflation number. I think five roughly

1156
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 3: around five point so that's five point three percent year

1157
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 3: over year, which is you want it to be lower

1158
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 3: than that. But that's not it's not ruining. It's not

1159
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 3: ruining the country, and I think it's and we should

1160
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 3: be careful about getting too excited about the energy prices

1161
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 3: coming down because Mohammed bin Salman, in order to finance

1162
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 3: all of his different acquisitions, has said he's going to

1163
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 3: jack up gas prices and also probably to hurt Biden.

1164
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 3: So twenty twenty four we're probably going to see higher

1165
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 3: gas prices and that's gonna that's going to impact these

1166
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 3: numbers that you're seeing. But the biggest crisis is still

1167
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,320
Speaker 3: here and that's in what they call shelter and so

1168
01:00:51,360 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 3: that's both rent and mortgages. That's eight percent year over year.

1169
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:57,920
Speaker 3: So if you're if you're seeing if you're seeing prices

1170
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 3: at the at the grocery store, used car price is

1171
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 3: down four percent. Uh, you're glad to see that that

1172
01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:08,120
Speaker 3: those things are becoming more affordable. Egg prices coming down,

1173
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 3: But if you're still seeing eight percent year over year

1174
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 3: increases in housing prices, that's that's a crisis. And then

1175
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 3: the other the other big jump that you see is

1176
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 3: in what they call transportation services. That's ten point two

1177
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 3: percent year over year, and that's everything from you know,

1178
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 3: Uber other ride shares, which you can see everybody understands

1179
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 3: like those are getting more expensive, to train fares, bus fares,

1180
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 3: but also airline fares like you've seen you know, the

1181
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 3: cost of air of airplane tickets just soaring over so

1182
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 3: that that's that's taking a huge chunk out of you.

1183
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: But and then a food away from home eight point

1184
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 3: three percent. So in other words like going out to

1185
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 3: eat is costing you a lot, but food at home

1186
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:58,000
Speaker 3: down under six percent. So those are the things that

1187
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 3: are that people are still, you know, really feeling according

1188
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 3: to the data. So what's your read on as you

1189
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 3: just go around the world where inflation is compared to

1190
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 3: where it was a year ago.

1191
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 4: You know, that's why I really don't like.

1192
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 3: What are you looking at? What's your point today?

1193
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 5: Well, by now you've heard a lot about the Espionage

1194
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 5: Act recently in light of Donald Trump's indictment by Special

1195
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 5: Consul Jack Smith. Many of you have known a great

1196
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 5: deal about this World War One era legislation for years,

1197
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 5: following the cases of Eugene Devs, the Rosenbergs, and all

1198
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 5: the way up to Julian Assange.

1199
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 13: Donald Trump is not a whistleblower or a journalist or

1200
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,560
Speaker 13: a foreign agent. He didn't leak a military report to

1201
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:43,480
Speaker 13: the press for the betterment of the nation, nor did

1202
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 13: he hand out anti warflyers. He is the former president

1203
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,400
Speaker 13: of the United States accused of stowing away boxes and

1204
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 13: boxes of some of the most sensitive US national security secrets.

1205
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 5: So there's ali velshie Over on MSNBC making the Trump

1206
01:02:57,520 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 5: comparison within all that historical contact that we've been hearing

1207
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 5: so much about recently. He says Trump is different. Therefore

1208
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 5: the implication as well, maybe it's okay. Well, let's remember

1209
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,640
Speaker 5: the Espionage Act is basically a blunt force instrument of

1210
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 5: the security state to punish enemies of their agenda, basically

1211
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 5: at the drop of a hat. That's what the historical

1212
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 5: context really shows. As you may know, thirty one of

1213
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 5: Trump's thirty seven new charges were brought under the Espionage

1214
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,360
Speaker 5: Act by Jacksmith. As Eli Lake wrote in The Free

1215
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 5: Press this week, quote this is his headline. Trump probably

1216
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 5: broke the law, but that law shouldn't exist. Probably is

1217
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 5: an important word there. We actually haven't heard much from

1218
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 5: Trump's defense team in the last few days. It would

1219
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 5: hardly be shocking to learn the indictment was built by

1220
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,520
Speaker 5: excluding maybe some key context, given our DOJ's history of

1221
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 5: making similar decisions when it comes to Trump related PISA

1222
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 5: warrants PISA warrants, for instance.

1223
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 4: But who knows, not me, certainly not anyone else in

1224
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:55,400
Speaker 4: the media. And that's okay.

1225
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,560
Speaker 5: In terms of whether Trump's conduct was dumb, dangerous and

1226
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 5: a violation of this specific law, the current evidence suggests

1227
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 5: the answer to every single. One of those questions is yes,

1228
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 5: but two things can be true at once. Trump's conduct

1229
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 5: was dumb and silly, and so is the Biden administrations.

1230
01:04:13,880 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 5: Why well, Elia Lake makes a lot of good points,

1231
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 5: some of them are critical. Here comes the what about segment?

1232
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 5: What about Joe Biden? What about Hillary Clinton? Isn't it

1233
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:27,240
Speaker 5: facile and partisan? What about isms? To not just admit

1234
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 5: Trump is corrupt rather than pointing elsewhere? Well, First, nobody

1235
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 5: needs to admit Trump is corrupt.

1236
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 4: He basically campaigned on being corrupt.

1237
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 5: And Second, as Andy McCarthy pointed out on Fox this week,

1238
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 5: the law is basically what about ism. You're always weighing precedent,

1239
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 5: meaning what about this person? What about that person? This

1240
01:04:46,280 --> 01:04:49,440
Speaker 5: is exactly the argument James Comy made when he announced

1241
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 5: the FBI would not pursue charges against Hillary Clinton in

1242
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. This is an exact quote from his statement

1243
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 5: the day he announced he wasn't going to bring charges.

1244
01:04:58,480 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 14: Quote.

1245
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,960
Speaker 5: Although there is evidence dents a potential violation of the

1246
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 5: statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is

1247
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:10,320
Speaker 5: that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors

1248
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,760
Speaker 5: necessarily weigh a number of factors Before bringing charges. There

1249
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 5: are obvious considerations like the strength of the evidence, especially

1250
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,960
Speaker 5: regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a

1251
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 5: person's actions and how similar situations have been handled in

1252
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 5: the past. Intent, by the way, is pretty key in

1253
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 5: the Trump indictment. This exact statement could be extended the

1254
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,320
Speaker 5: Komi statement to Joe Biden's trove of around twenty to

1255
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 5: thirty classified documents that were located last year, some of

1256
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 5: which contained very sensitive information about Iran Ukraine. And more clearly,

1257
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,560
Speaker 5: you could make the case he was in violation of

1258
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 5: the Espionage Act or there's pretty strong evidence he was

1259
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 5: in violation of the Espionage Act.

1260
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,160
Speaker 4: And yes, Trump is charged with.

1261
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 5: Having many more documents, and he's also charged with obstruction.

1262
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 5: That absolutely makes his case more serious. Although Clinton could

1263
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 5: possible belie've been hit with obstruction charges too. But if

1264
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 5: you're going to charge one president with Espionage Acts Act violations,

1265
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 5: that another could be charged with and likely won't given

1266
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 5: what happened with Clinton, for instance, you don't have the

1267
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:15,040
Speaker 5: moral high ground when it comes to quote the rule

1268
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:17,720
Speaker 5: of law, which James Comey has been talking about all

1269
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 5: over the media recently.

1270
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 4: Worse yet, this is exactly the point about the Espionage Act.

1271
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 5: It is a blunt, forced instrument the security state clings to.

1272
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 5: The Obama administration used it to seize James Rosen's emails

1273
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 5: and target many others many times over. This is why

1274
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 5: the journalists reflexively siding with Smith here because they hate Trump,

1275
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 5: are playing an incredibly dangerous game. The Espionage Act exists

1276
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 5: to punish them. It's so intentionally broad it can be

1277
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,560
Speaker 5: used to do whatever the Feds want with it when

1278
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,200
Speaker 5: they want to. Obama suffered little repercussions for his abuses

1279
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 5: of the Espionage Act, but journalists and whistleblowers did. The

1280
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 5: more the media cheers Smith and Garland and Biden on,

1281
01:07:02,240 --> 01:07:04,880
Speaker 5: the more power this law will continue to have over them.

1282
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,520
Speaker 3: We are joined now by Glenn Greenwald, my former colleague

1283
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 3: over at the Intercept and the host of System Update

1284
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 3: that's the name of the show at Rumble. We're going

1285
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 3: to talk about his interview in a Moment that he

1286
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,800
Speaker 3: did with RFK Junior, particularly a fascinating and revealing exchange

1287
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:27,400
Speaker 3: with RFK Junior over his policy on Israel and how

1288
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,880
Speaker 3: it compares to his policy as relates to Ukraine. But

1289
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 3: first I wanted to get you on the big news

1290
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 3: from yesterday, Trump turning himself in for idiotically holding on

1291
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 3: to all of these documents, one of the governments trying

1292
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 3: to get them back. Emily and I were just going

1293
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 3: through what I think is my dream scenario, and I

1294
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 3: wanted to get your take on this, and it would

1295
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 3: be that the thing is punted past the election. Trump

1296
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:55,600
Speaker 3: is convicted of on these Espionage Act claims. It then

1297
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:58,600
Speaker 3: goes to the Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court rules

1298
01:07:58,600 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 3: the Espionage Act unconstitutional and ditches the entire law so

1299
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 3: that they can free Trump. I'm curious for your take

1300
01:08:05,640 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 3: on these Espionage Act charges and also would that be

1301
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,040
Speaker 3: a dream scenario.

1302
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean, anything that does the Espionage Act to me,

1303
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: would be a huge gift to the United States. The

1304
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:20,600
Speaker 1: idea that this law is one of the most repressive

1305
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: on the books, one of the most unconstitutional, flagrantly repressive laws,

1306
01:08:25,320 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 1: has been something that has been kind of gospel and

1307
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,920
Speaker 1: left loberal politics for decades. It goes back to nineteen

1308
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,799
Speaker 1: seventeen would where Wilson enacted it with the explicit purpose

1309
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 1: of criminalizing people who dissented from his desire to involve

1310
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: the US in the European War in World War One,

1311
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,600
Speaker 1: and many socialists like Eugene Debs and others were prosecuted

1312
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:48,839
Speaker 1: on the grounds that essentially opposing the US war policy

1313
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,679
Speaker 1: meant they were aiding and abedding other countries and acting

1314
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: as agents of those countries.

1315
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 14: And then that was the law that was unearthed.

1316
01:08:54,960 --> 01:08:58,600
Speaker 1: During the Obama years to start attacking whistleblowers at a

1317
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: record pace. And the reason is because it's a law

1318
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: that basically ensures the government can win. That was the

1319
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: law that Daniel Alsburg was tried under. He intended to

1320
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: go on the stand and argue to a jury of

1321
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 1: his peers that yes, he leaked the Pentagon papers, but

1322
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:14,080
Speaker 1: it was justified for him to do so because the

1323
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: government had no right to conceal it in the first place.

1324
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,720
Speaker 1: And the judge immediately shut it down and said, under

1325
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: the Espionage Act, it doesn't matter what your motive is.

1326
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,280
Speaker 1: It's a strict liability statute. And that's what makes it

1327
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:27,839
Speaker 1: such a horrifically powerful weapon in the hands of the government.

1328
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 1: And there is an irony that the Trump administration prosecuted

1329
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:34,839
Speaker 1: Julian assanj under this and others. Trump cheered Snowden's prosecution

1330
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 1: under it, and else Trump himself faceds prosecution under this law.

1331
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:42,000
Speaker 1: But a principle civil libertarian, somebody who has worked, for example,

1332
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,320
Speaker 1: what the ACLU would have no choice but to say,

1333
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: in all instances where this law is applied, it's an

1334
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 1: unjust outcome.

1335
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1336
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 5: I think that's very well, said Trump's One of Trump's

1337
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 5: attorneys previewed, I think a pretty potent line of argumentation

1338
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,160
Speaker 5: they're going to be making in defense of this indictment

1339
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:57,919
Speaker 5: or in defense against this indictment.

1340
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 4: Yesterday, I said the.

1341
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 5: Courthouse, she said, basically, this is starting to make the

1342
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 5: US look like Cuba in Venezuela, and this is our

1343
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 5: transformation towards Banana republic. As you point out, Glenn, this

1344
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 5: is a nineteen seventeen era law that was sort of

1345
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 5: immediately used to prosecute people on political grounds after being enacted.

1346
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 5: How do you think that argument is going to work

1347
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 5: for the Trump team? Do you see it where you

1348
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 5: have Joe Biden actually prosecuting the front runner in the

1349
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 5: Republican nomination, not necessarily like a Eugene Dubs figure, but

1350
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 5: like the Republican front runner here? Do you see that

1351
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 5: along the lines of the argument the defense attorney is

1352
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 5: making there, how do you think this goes for them?

1353
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: Well, there's a huge imony here in terms of my

1354
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,280
Speaker 1: own trajectory and my own career and belief system, which is,

1355
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: I watch President Obama immunize the entire Cia and all

1356
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 1: Bush officials for any prosecution for War on Terror crimes,

1357
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: including torture. And there was a consensus in the Washington

1358
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: media and political class when he did that that he

1359
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,720
Speaker 1: did the right thing, just like Nixon did the right

1360
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 1: thing when Forward did the right thing when pardoning Nixon

1361
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 1: on the grounds that, oh, only banana republics prosecute former

1362
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: presidents by subsequent administrations. And my argument at the time

1363
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 1: was no, Actually, what happens in the Banana Republic is

1364
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,040
Speaker 1: there's a two tiered system of justice, one for elites

1365
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: and one for everybody else, and not prosecuting war on

1366
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: terror criminals is what would make us this kind of

1367
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: Banana republic. And now here we are finally a person

1368
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: with power seemingly being prosecuted. But for me, the problem

1369
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,920
Speaker 1: it becomes it's still selective. It's selective in a different way. Clearly,

1370
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:35,800
Speaker 1: Trump is an enemy of the political establishment in the

1371
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,160
Speaker 1: way that say, others who did similar or worse things,

1372
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 1: like David Betraeus and Leon Panetta and arguably Hillary Clinton

1373
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:45,200
Speaker 1: didn't was not and they did not spend a single

1374
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: second in jail. They weren't charged with Espionage Act violations.

1375
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,360
Speaker 1: And so I do think there's a highly political you

1376
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:54,320
Speaker 1: put a molment to it, And just imagine if we

1377
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,200
Speaker 1: watched what's happening in the United States, happening in one

1378
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 1: of the designated bad countries, where a current resident imprisons

1379
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,759
Speaker 1: or his administration is trying to imprison his leading opponent

1380
01:12:05,920 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: heading into an election, we're all poshal that opponent is leading.

1381
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 1: We would immediately say that's proof of bespotism, Like when

1382
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin presided over Nabalne's corruption charges. That was what

1383
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 1: was said, and it's hard to distinguish. I think what's

1384
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: going on here.

1385
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 5: I think that's especially true in lend of the fact

1386
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,839
Speaker 5: that Clinton actually could have also had the obstruction charges,

1387
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 5: not just the ESPIONAC violination violations, but potentially obstruction charges too.

1388
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:32,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1389
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 14: I mean, she lied to the government.

1390
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: She said there was no classified information having ever gone

1391
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: over her service. She repeated that multiple times to investigators

1392
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:41,160
Speaker 1: when it turned out to be false.

1393
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,400
Speaker 3: I'm curious, if you put Trump on the couch, how

1394
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 3: he wound up in this situation, Like for somebody who

1395
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 3: has talked so frequently about the deep state coming after

1396
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 3: him like this is this is basically his number one

1397
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 3: argument that he's been making for you know, because you

1398
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 3: are judged by who your enemies are, and like, look

1399
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:05,680
Speaker 3: at who my enemies are. They you know they want

1400
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 3: to destroy me. Therefore I must be doing something right?

1401
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,840
Speaker 3: What what about that did not get internalized for him?

1402
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 3: Because if they if you believe that they're coming to

1403
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 3: get you, just give the boxes back like that. That's

1404
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 3: the part that has me head scratching about like the

1405
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 3: way that this unfolded. How how do you how do

1406
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 3: you think about why Trump now? Because for Hillary Clinton,

1407
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,560
Speaker 3: I think Hillary Clinton knew she was not going to

1408
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 3: be put in prison, So you can explain why she

1409
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 3: would be shady about uh and and be willing to

1410
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 3: lie to these prosecutors because like they're not coming to

1411
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:45,400
Speaker 3: get her, like they want the documents back, they don't

1412
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,880
Speaker 3: like that she's using this this server, but she's pretty

1413
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 3: confident that they're not actually going to put her in prison,

1414
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 3: and that confidence was born out by Coombe's decision, not

1415
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 3: the prosecutor. Trump, though, shouldn't have that same confidence, like

1416
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:59,840
Speaker 3: he really they really are coming after him. So it

1417
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,960
Speaker 3: it almost feels like, for the kind of movement that

1418
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,000
Speaker 3: he's leading, why wasn't he more careful?

1419
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 14: It's a good question. I think.

1420
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: The best analogy, and I know this seems odd because

1421
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,760
Speaker 1: it's impossible to extract all this from its ideological baggage,

1422
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,719
Speaker 1: is what happened in Brazil with Lula de Silva, where

1423
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,360
Speaker 1: I obviously played a big role in those events, so

1424
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 1: I have pretty up close insight.

1425
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 14: Lula never believed.

1426
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: That he would be in prison because he was a

1427
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 1: two term president, beloved on the international stage. He left

1428
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: office with an eighty six percent approval rating, and at

1429
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 1: exactly this point, the analogous point in the election cycle

1430
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 1: for Brazil, one year before the twenty eighteen presidential election

1431
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, when he was leading all polls, they

1432
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,120
Speaker 1: came and they charged him with multiple corruption crimes, arrested

1433
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: him and sentenced him to eleven years in prison.

1434
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:51,480
Speaker 14: And when that happened, he began.

1435
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 1: To view all of the people responsible for that was

1436
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 1: such disdain that he no longer recognized their legitimacy. The

1437
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 1: lead prosecutor in Lula's case ran for Congress and won,

1438
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: got the biggest vote total in his state, and they

1439
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,920
Speaker 1: just removed him from Congress on some concocted corruption ground.

1440
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: And now they're looking to do the same with the

1441
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 1: judge who presided over the case is now a senator.

1442
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: So this vengeance factor when you spend time in jail

1443
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,560
Speaker 1: is very high. This is, you know, you're talking about

1444
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,519
Speaker 1: an establishment that twice impeached Donald Trump, that has now

1445
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:28,360
Speaker 1: indicted him twice, that makes no secret about their desire

1446
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: to put him into prison. And so yes, you can,

1447
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: on the one hand, say well he should therefore be

1448
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 1: even more careful and not hand them weapons to use

1449
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: against him. On the other hand, I think when you

1450
01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:41,280
Speaker 1: feel genuinely persecuted by unjust authority, which is definitely how

1451
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: he and a lot of his supporters feel, and I

1452
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,120
Speaker 1: think with good reason. Remember Chuck Schumer warned him this

1453
01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 1: would happen if he challenge the CIA, they'll get They

1454
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: have six different ways to get back at you, and

1455
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: that's what has been happening throughout his presidency with reshigate

1456
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,439
Speaker 1: and now these impeachments and now these indictments. I think

1457
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,800
Speaker 1: there's this kind of sense that I'm just not going

1458
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,479
Speaker 1: to play ball with these people. I'm not going to

1459
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,320
Speaker 1: recognize the legitimacy of their demands for these documents back

1460
01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: because they're out to get me no matter what I do,

1461
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 1: and war is the only the only way to go

1462
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 1: about this.

1463
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,080
Speaker 5: It's important to take Chuck Schumer both literally and serious.

1464
01:16:11,200 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, it was the most amazing moment of

1465
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,839
Speaker 1: candor I've ever seen from the top level Washington official.

1466
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, pivoting to your interview with RFK Junior recently, Actually,

1467
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:27,760
Speaker 3: we'll we'll just play this clip and just to set

1468
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 3: it up you you asked him basically, why is it

1469
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 3: that you're skeptical about funding for the war in Ukraine

1470
01:16:34,520 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 3: because of the needs of people here at home, but

1471
01:16:37,040 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 3: not the same for Israel' Let's let's roll that clip here.

1472
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: Why are we in the United States transferring billions of

1473
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 1: dollars of aid each year to a country Israel, whose citizens,

1474
01:16:47,640 --> 01:16:49,639
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways enjoy better standards of living

1475
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 1: than a lot of the ways American citizens live. What

1476
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: is your argument for why we should send so much

1477
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 1: money to Israel, but not to Ukraine.

1478
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,759
Speaker 6: You know, the historically that argument has been that Israel

1479
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 6: is the model democracy in the Mid East. It's the

1480
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:11,480
Speaker 6: only democracy in the Mid East, and as a democracy,

1481
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 6: it's it's a model for peacekeeping for and there's never

1482
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:21,280
Speaker 6: been a time in history when a democracy has has

1483
01:17:21,320 --> 01:17:24,559
Speaker 6: gone to war with another democracy. So I think art

1484
01:17:25,240 --> 01:17:29,519
Speaker 6: policy in the United States should be to support the

1485
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:34,160
Speaker 6: the growth of democracies around the world. You know, if I've.

1486
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:36,720
Speaker 1: Ever that was the that was the argument for going

1487
01:17:36,760 --> 01:17:38,960
Speaker 1: into invading Iraq. We're going to spread democracy in the

1488
01:17:38,960 --> 01:17:42,040
Speaker 1: Middle East. That's the argument for supporting the Ukrainians, which

1489
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:45,160
Speaker 1: is the Ukrainians are democracy in Russia's autocracy.

1490
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,800
Speaker 6: There's a and Glenn, I agree with you, and I

1491
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:51,360
Speaker 6: think there's there. I do think there's a difference between

1492
01:17:52,520 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 6: what we did in Iraq, which is imposing a US

1493
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 6: system which I don't think was really democracy at the

1494
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 6: point of a gun, and you know, going in in

1495
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:05,320
Speaker 6: a preemptive war, which we've never done in our history

1496
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,679
Speaker 6: on a pretext in which we lied to the American

1497
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 6: public about weapons of mass destruction.

1498
01:18:11,160 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 5: And.

1499
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 6: You know, and our policy of assisting and existing democracy

1500
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 6: in the Midiest that has had a long relationship with

1501
01:18:20,280 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 6: our country, and long and supportive relationship with our country.

1502
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,880
Speaker 6: But you know, I think you raise some important points.

1503
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 6: I think it probably at this point in the history,

1504
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:37,720
Speaker 6: Israel is you know, is much better able to take

1505
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:39,680
Speaker 6: care of itself than it was in the past, and

1506
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 6: we need to look at all those things.

1507
01:18:41,560 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 3: That was a long clip, but I wanted to play

1508
01:18:43,479 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 3: all the way to the end of it because it's

1509
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,880
Speaker 3: a remarkable moment in an interview where you kind of

1510
01:18:47,960 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 3: see him think through the position, and by the end

1511
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:54,639
Speaker 3: of it, he's like, actually, you know what, Glenn, maybe

1512
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:56,920
Speaker 3: Israel is ready to stand up on its own two

1513
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 3: feet and we should reduce the amount of spending with

1514
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 3: their which is an incredible turnaround from just days earlier,

1515
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:09,000
Speaker 3: where he had denounced his friend Roger Waters over Israel

1516
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 3: related tweets, concerts, etc. Were you surprised at the way

1517
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 3: at the kind of arc of his answer there.

1518
01:19:17,520 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 14: Yes and no. I mean this is what I took

1519
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:20,519
Speaker 14: away from the interview.

1520
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of people were angry about his extreme

1521
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,120
Speaker 1: pro Israel narrative, which is way beyond what even Democratic

1522
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: members of Congress will say. They're much better at pretending

1523
01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:33,640
Speaker 1: to care about Palestinians than he bothered to do. And

1524
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: other people were angry about his views on China, essentially saying,

1525
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 1: we're doing to China exactly what we're doing to Russian only,

1526
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 1: you know, basically and stupidly provoking them with encirclement physically

1527
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 1: around their country. But although you know, I didn't like

1528
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 1: his answers on Israel up until that point, what I

1529
01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:54,280
Speaker 1: find so fascinating about him Ryan is that if you

1530
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 1: look at his life, you know, you can't find a

1531
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 1: more charmed life to be an establishment figure. He had

1532
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,200
Speaker 1: two uncles who were senators from the Democratic Party, or

1533
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:04,400
Speaker 1: rather his father and an uncle were senators.

1534
01:20:04,439 --> 01:20:05,960
Speaker 14: His other uncle was the president.

1535
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 1: He comes from this beloved Democratic Party dynasty. He's married

1536
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: to a very popular actress in Hollywood. He's wealthy, he's

1537
01:20:14,120 --> 01:20:17,519
Speaker 1: well known, he's famous. And what has clearly happened. You know,

1538
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 1: he was a long time an establishment Democrat. He's supported it,

1539
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:22,960
Speaker 1: endorsed Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. That's how much of

1540
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:24,960
Speaker 1: it ingrained in the establishment. He was in two thousand

1541
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,680
Speaker 1: and eight. And we've all had those moments where we

1542
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 1: kind of become radicalized when we realize in an issue

1543
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: that we know a lot about that the establishment is

1544
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 1: lying to us, and we start thinking, well, if they're

1545
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,720
Speaker 1: lying to us about this, maybe I've been propagandized and

1546
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 1: deceived in other areas as well. He had the same

1547
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 1: answer on Rushigate. You know, I had previously said he

1548
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:45,600
Speaker 1: was a supporter of Rushgate. His campaign contacted me and

1549
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: said they didn't think that was fair, but he said, no,

1550
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:50,040
Speaker 1: you're right. I was a supporter of Rushigate because I

1551
01:20:50,040 --> 01:20:53,080
Speaker 1: got duped by the propaganda. And once I started hearing

1552
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:55,839
Speaker 1: people in the context of COVID tell me, oh, vaccine

1553
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: skepticism means you're a Kremlin agent, I started realizing, wait

1554
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: a minute, how is this actually being used.

1555
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:02,000
Speaker 14: And then the more I looked into.

1556
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:04,040
Speaker 1: It that I read the Journal report, I saw that

1557
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: I had been deceived, and a lot of that comes

1558
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:07,520
Speaker 1: from COVID radicalism.

1559
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 14: And I think that has made him somebody, even at.

1560
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 1: The age of sixty eight, who is now starting to

1561
01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:16,240
Speaker 1: really question a lot of things he's long been conditioned

1562
01:21:16,280 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 1: to believe, and is very willing to be open minded

1563
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 1: and hear arguments against even his most core convictions in

1564
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:24,559
Speaker 1: a way that I find very rare. First of all,

1565
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:26,519
Speaker 1: I've never seen that in an interview before, but also

1566
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 1: very encouraging, if more than any particular policy view. I

1567
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:33,320
Speaker 1: think that character trait of being intellectually humble, of realizing

1568
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 1: some of your views may be grounded in unthought through propaganda,

1569
01:21:36,920 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 1: is an incredibly valuable one to have in in a

1570
01:21:39,720 --> 01:21:40,960
Speaker 1: major presidential candidate.

1571
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, not to mention a willingness that sort of works

1572
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 5: through them actually on air, not behind closed doors in

1573
01:21:45,880 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 5: the proverbial smoke fill back room.

1574
01:21:47,439 --> 01:21:49,599
Speaker 4: I think that's like a huge distinction as well.

1575
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 5: Do you get the sense I remember when Justice Democrats

1576
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:55,040
Speaker 5: tried to cobble together that Ukraine letter and ended up

1577
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:55,760
Speaker 5: retracting it.

1578
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:57,080
Speaker 4: What was that like six months ago?

1579
01:21:57,120 --> 01:21:59,360
Speaker 5: At this point, do you get the sense, Glen that

1580
01:22:00,320 --> 01:22:04,680
Speaker 5: this switch that Ukraine perhaps is a window into an

1581
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,600
Speaker 5: awakening for other Democrats Because it seems to me like

1582
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 5: the democratic establishments clinging to their narrative on Ukraine is

1583
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 5: similar to clinging to their narrative on Israel.

1584
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:17,680
Speaker 4: But for people outside.

1585
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,720
Speaker 5: The democratic establishment, they see that doubling down and they

1586
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:23,120
Speaker 5: wonder why they would be doubling down. So do you

1587
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 5: get the sense that he might be representative of other

1588
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:26,560
Speaker 5: democratic voters.

1589
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: I think, so, you know, I think the interesting thing

1590
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, we've had politicians before this is

1591
01:22:31,400 --> 01:22:33,320
Speaker 1: in the first time SAYWHI was wrong, But.

1592
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:34,640
Speaker 14: Usually it's because they're forced to.

1593
01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:36,840
Speaker 1: Like Hillary Clinton, running for president in two thousand and eight,

1594
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:38,720
Speaker 1: was required to say I got the Iraq War wrong

1595
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 1: and apologized. So was John Kerry because the voters demanded

1596
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:46,439
Speaker 1: that what rf K Junior is doing is something that

1597
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:50,719
Speaker 1: is likely to expel him from his political and social circles,

1598
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: saying I got Russiagate wrong by being too gullible about it.

1599
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:56,600
Speaker 14: And I don't.

1600
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: Believe the word in Ukraine is a just word that

1601
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,880
Speaker 1: we ought to be pursuing and involved in the United States.

1602
01:23:01,880 --> 01:23:04,519
Speaker 1: And I think when someone makes those kinds of admissions

1603
01:23:04,560 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 1: against their own interests, that's when you can believe more

1604
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:09,520
Speaker 1: in the authenticity of those convictions.

1605
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 14: So the question of how much space is there in the.

1606
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:18,960
Speaker 1: Democratic Party to start opposing Biden's bellicos rhetoric about Ukraine

1607
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,040
Speaker 1: and fighting the Russians until the end after a year

1608
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: and a half now of all this fighting and killing

1609
01:23:22,920 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 1: with no end in sight, I think it's a very

1610
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:25,640
Speaker 1: interesting one.

1611
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 14: The problem, of.

1612
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 1: Course, was that no Democrat, not AOC, not Ilion Omar,

1613
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:31,439
Speaker 1: not Corey Bush. None of them voted no on that

1614
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 1: original bill. They all lined up unanimously and said yes,

1615
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: we support the Biden more policy in Ukraine.

1616
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 14: And that eliminated the space for you know, liberal.

1617
01:23:39,960 --> 01:23:43,320
Speaker 1: Pundits, even left wing pundits, to kind of start arguing

1618
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 1: against the war, because no one in the Democratic Party

1619
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:48,680
Speaker 1: was doing that. If RFK Junior can create space and

1620
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 1: have debates and be seen and be heard as I

1621
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: think you will be, and start articulating this case, I

1622
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:56,400
Speaker 1: do think there's some latent, you.

1623
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:57,160
Speaker 14: Know, kind of.

1624
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 1: Hesitation or resistance, if you will, to this fact that

1625
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:05,719
Speaker 1: we're now involved in yet another war and endless word

1626
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:06,479
Speaker 1: with no one insight.

1627
01:24:06,520 --> 01:24:07,960
Speaker 14: That is increasingly dangerous.

1628
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,439
Speaker 3: And I think the rhetoric and the argument around the

1629
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:15,920
Speaker 3: spending money over there while not spending it here is

1630
01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:18,400
Speaker 3: is really powerful and resonates in a kind of common

1631
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 3: sense way. But what I actually love about it is

1632
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 3: that it will eventually force the government to make the

1633
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 3: real case, you know, for why it's spending that money overseas,

1634
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 3: because this is not charity, you know, We're not we're

1635
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:34,920
Speaker 3: not shelling money out to Israel. We're not spending money

1636
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 3: in Ukraine or other you know, military bases around the

1637
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,599
Speaker 3: world because of our benevolence, because we're just have generous

1638
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:44,920
Speaker 3: feelings towards the rest of the world, like the Empire

1639
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 3: has very specific and distinct advantages, you know, to the homeland.

1640
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,360
Speaker 3: And so it's not as if when you spend money

1641
01:24:53,360 --> 01:24:55,519
Speaker 3: in Ukraine, you know, you're not yet you're you're you

1642
01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:57,439
Speaker 3: don't have money to spend here in the United States.

1643
01:24:57,560 --> 01:24:59,840
Speaker 3: The United States can borrow it will United States. That's

1644
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:02,759
Speaker 3: a at a reserve. And you know, seventy eighty percent

1645
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:04,920
Speaker 3: of that money that we allegedly send to Ukraine never

1646
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:09,160
Speaker 3: leaves northern Virginia or suburban Maryland anyway. And so it

1647
01:25:09,200 --> 01:25:12,320
Speaker 3: would be fun to see the government have to actually

1648
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 3: make that argument say that, no, don't worry, it's not charity.

1649
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 3: We're not supporting Israel just because we love the only

1650
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 3: democracy in the Middle East, which is so offensive to

1651
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 3: Iraq and leban and come on, man, they have elections.

1652
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:26,120
Speaker 3: Why do we keep we even went to war to

1653
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 3: make a raq A democracy. Stop with this call it

1654
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 3: one of three that now none of them are very functional.

1655
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,200
Speaker 3: So but that's not why we're supporting Israel. We're supporting

1656
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 3: Israe because we want a beachhead in the Middle East

1657
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:38,960
Speaker 3: for our geopologis.

1658
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: How can you say that a government like the United

1659
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 1: States that is the biggest sponsor of the Saudi desbit

1660
01:25:45,680 --> 01:25:48,559
Speaker 1: and of Egyptian authoritarians and countries all over the world,

1661
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 1: actually cares about spreading democracy. The thing they're really interesting

1662
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:55,440
Speaker 1: to me, Ryan is there's space obviously in the Republican

1663
01:25:55,479 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: Party for opposing the war in Ukraine. Trump is doing that,

1664
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 1: for example, But a lot of people dismiss that and say, well,

1665
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 1: conservatives don't want to fight Russia because the real goal

1666
01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: is to fight China. What RFK said was hees China

1667
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:09,599
Speaker 1: and Russia in exactly the same way. We have eight

1668
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:13,559
Speaker 1: hundred foreign bases all around the world, while China has one.

1669
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 1: We're encircling them in Guam and Australia and Japan and

1670
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,360
Speaker 1: South Korea with newcor tip missiles aimed at Chinese cities

1671
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 1: and newcor capable B fifty twos.

1672
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 14: Buzzing over their head.

1673
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 1: Biden but is the first president to say I will

1674
01:26:26,280 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 1: go to work with China over Taiwan.

1675
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:31,880
Speaker 14: And his argument is the people who are.

1676
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 1: Paying for this neo conservative war mongering mentality, not just

1677
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 1: in Russia, but also in China and in general. Are

1678
01:26:39,280 --> 01:26:41,640
Speaker 1: the American people who are suffering at home because all

1679
01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 1: their money is going, as you say to a lobbyist

1680
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:46,760
Speaker 1: in northern Virginia and Maryland or too, you know, the

1681
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:51,720
Speaker 1: coffers of Vladimir Zelenski and Israeli military agencies and increasingly

1682
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:53,960
Speaker 1: arms dealers to prepare for war with China, and it

1683
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:56,960
Speaker 1: doesn't benefit anybody, And the people who pay the most

1684
01:26:57,040 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 1: are the American people.

1685
01:26:57,920 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 14: I think that is a very powerful argument if you

1686
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 14: make it consistently.

1687
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:03,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right because exactly because if you have to

1688
01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 3: make the argument that the empire actually is beneficial to

1689
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 3: the United States, then the questions, well, who who's it

1690
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 3: helping here in the United States, Because you know, the

1691
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 3: regular person in America is that I'm not seeing it now.

1692
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:20,639
Speaker 3: If you look at the kind of median income and

1693
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:23,800
Speaker 3: the housing values in Northern Virginia, then things are going

1694
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:25,479
Speaker 3: quite well. But if you're looking at the rest of

1695
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 3: the country, not so much.

1696
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:29,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, the confluence of Ukraine and China is really interesting

1697
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 5: because that's the test, right, you know, there are really

1698
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,120
Speaker 5: good reasons I think to be wary of where a

1699
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:37,080
Speaker 5: relationship with China could go in a.

1700
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 4: Million different directions.

1701
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:41,719
Speaker 5: But the capture of the conservative movement by the defense industry,

1702
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 5: that's really going to be put to a test. It's

1703
01:27:44,360 --> 01:27:47,200
Speaker 5: one thing to oppose Ukraine, it's another to see where

1704
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:48,800
Speaker 5: that policy evolves on China.

1705
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:52,679
Speaker 3: And the last question for me on the Democratic Party,

1706
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:55,639
Speaker 3: it is interesting to think about where this is going.

1707
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:59,640
Speaker 3: My sense on Ukraine is that they just seem to

1708
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 3: be hope that this just goes away, that maybe this

1709
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:04,439
Speaker 3: is the spring offensive is the end, and then there's

1710
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:07,160
Speaker 3: some type of kind of no, there won't be a

1711
01:28:07,200 --> 01:28:10,639
Speaker 3: negotiated you know peace where they sign paperwork, but it's

1712
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 3: just the war basically peters out and it and the

1713
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:16,920
Speaker 3: the lines get frozen where they are, and that then

1714
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 3: they don't have to take a stand on this on

1715
01:28:19,720 --> 01:28:22,320
Speaker 3: this question anymore. But then then you have the question

1716
01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 3: of China, like you said, like how how bellicos and

1717
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,160
Speaker 3: confrontational are they going to be? But there doesn't seem

1718
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:31,559
Speaker 3: to be energy for any kind of an anti war

1719
01:28:31,640 --> 01:28:34,639
Speaker 3: movement within the Democratic Party. Where do you see it going?

1720
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 14: Yeah, and the big question is why not? Right?

1721
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 1: I mean, why are neocons from the Bush and Cheney

1722
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: era almost entirely now.

1723
01:28:43,960 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 14: With embedded within the Democratic Party.

1724
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 1: They're not just anti Trump, their anti Republican Party and

1725
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 1: pro Democratic party they perceive, I think correctly, the Democratic

1726
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:54,519
Speaker 1: Party is the better vehicle for the fulfillment of their

1727
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:58,200
Speaker 1: foreign policy agenda, which is always about increasing and seeking.

1728
01:28:57,840 --> 01:28:59,040
Speaker 14: Out confrontation and war.

1729
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:03,000
Speaker 1: And the question is why is there no space in

1730
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 1: mainstream liberal left discourse to raise these issues. There's a

1731
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 1: lot of energy that goes into the trans debate and

1732
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: the culture war, but almost none. There's no one, almost ever,

1733
01:29:12,600 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: who talks about foreign policy and war in the US

1734
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:17,680
Speaker 1: security state any longer. And this is what excites me

1735
01:29:17,720 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 1: the most about Rfka juniorth candidacy is that I think

1736
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 1: he will be kind of a like a foreign in

1737
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:26,400
Speaker 1: aside like your reminder that these values are values that

1738
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:30,000
Speaker 1: people who identify as American liberals are supposed to embrace.

1739
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:33,479
Speaker 1: And the question becomes, why is it that you know,

1740
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 1: nobody seems to mind within the Democratic Party that Biden

1741
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:41,400
Speaker 1: is not just devoted to endless war with Russia over Ukraine.

1742
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 1: After President Obama repeatedly said Ukraine does not a vital

1743
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,200
Speaker 1: interest in the United States. We should not risk confrontation

1744
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 1: with Russia over who governs eastern Ukraine or Crimea. That

1745
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:55,639
Speaker 1: was Obama's emphatically stated view. And also why is Biden

1746
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 1: so willing seemingly to fort with the possibility of war

1747
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: with China, which would be, you know, the ensure the

1748
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 1: immediate extinction of the human race. And I think the

1749
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:09,559
Speaker 1: problem has been the left flank of the Democratic Party,

1750
01:30:09,680 --> 01:30:11,880
Speaker 1: like AOC and the Squad and Bernie have been very

1751
01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:12,960
Speaker 1: focused on the culture war.

1752
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 14: Bernie kind of always still focused.

1753
01:30:14,640 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 1: On some of the economic policies on which he typically focuses,

1754
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:22,719
Speaker 1: but that has left a huge hoole for people leaders

1755
01:30:22,800 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: in the Democratic Party, including on the left wing, to

1756
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 1: talk about these issues. And I do, to Emily's question,

1757
01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:33,120
Speaker 1: think that RFK Junior has a very significant space to

1758
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:36,400
Speaker 1: kind of drive through there and become the person who

1759
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:38,880
Speaker 1: reawakens a lot of those lurking sentiments.

1760
01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think that's right. I think Bernie, the Squad,

1761
01:30:43,240 --> 01:30:46,720
Speaker 3: broadly the Democratic Left, I've just wanted to put their

1762
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:49,800
Speaker 3: heads down and focus on domestic stuff, some of the

1763
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:53,400
Speaker 3: culture stuff, some of the class stuff. But just and

1764
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 3: and maybe it has something to do with the you know, Russia,

1765
01:30:56,160 --> 01:30:58,320
Speaker 3: and the way that Russia Gate unfolded makes them like

1766
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:02,280
Speaker 3: even less interested and get entangled in that because there's

1767
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 3: no there's no advantage in a democratic primary because but

1768
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:10,040
Speaker 3: maybe RFK Junior shows that there is a constituency.

1769
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:09,639
Speaker 14: Quickly on that.

1770
01:31:09,680 --> 01:31:12,960
Speaker 1: You know, one of the best MLK speeches ever was

1771
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,760
Speaker 1: when he delivered in Riverside Church in Harlem exactly a

1772
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:18,800
Speaker 1: year of the day before he was murdered, and his

1773
01:31:18,920 --> 01:31:21,920
Speaker 1: argument was he apologized for not focusing enough on the

1774
01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:25,320
Speaker 1: Vietnam War until later than others did, because he realized

1775
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: there's no way to extricate American empire and militarism and

1776
01:31:29,200 --> 01:31:31,280
Speaker 1: imperialism from the domestic agenda.

1777
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:33,599
Speaker 14: They go hand in hand. You cannot win one without

1778
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 14: winning the other.

1779
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:37,920
Speaker 1: And this attempt by these kind of new Democrats to say, well,

1780
01:31:37,920 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 1: we can just let the CIA and the FBI go.

1781
01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:42,880
Speaker 1: We don't really think there are enemies wars as long

1782
01:31:42,880 --> 01:31:45,719
Speaker 1: as we're not sending American troops or something Americans will tolerate.

1783
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,560
Speaker 1: It's not going to work because it shapes the priority

1784
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:50,520
Speaker 1: in character of the US government.

1785
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 14: In fundamental ways.

1786
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:54,080
Speaker 1: That means that the US government will be geared toward

1787
01:31:54,160 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 1: these kind of corporatists and imperialist policies.

1788
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:57,759
Speaker 14: There's no way to separate those.

1789
01:31:58,479 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 4: That's the real culture war.

1790
01:31:59,720 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's exactly right, because you're trying to

1791
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 3: and trying to be a progressive party within the empire

1792
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,439
Speaker 3: is going to have so many contradictions embedded in it.

1793
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:12,639
Speaker 3: And you know MLK was pulling those apart in that speech.

1794
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:15,760
Speaker 3: And if you don't, you're just become part of the machine.

1795
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:18,599
Speaker 14: Yeah, and I mean you, I mean I once heard

1796
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 14: about this.

1797
01:32:19,000 --> 01:32:22,800
Speaker 1: But the time the establishment really turning against Martin Luther

1798
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: King was when he began becoming an outspoken opponent to

1799
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,960
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. They were okay, not all of them, obviously,

1800
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 1: but like kind of the liberal establishment of the New

1801
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 1: York Times and the like were okay with the racial

1802
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 1: justice Agenda and the Civil Rights Act and the like.

1803
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:37,000
Speaker 14: That was what Lyndon Johnson ended up doing. It became

1804
01:32:37,040 --> 01:32:38,280
Speaker 14: a Democratic Party cause.

1805
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 1: But when he started saying, we have to stop the

1806
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:44,080
Speaker 1: war in Vietnam, the US is the greatest purveyor of

1807
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,120
Speaker 1: violence on the planet, the New York Times, the Washington

1808
01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 1: Post liberal opinion makers really went after him.

1809
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:52,599
Speaker 14: Because that's what becomes uniquely threatening.

1810
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 3: Good piece on that by Zedjulyn. If you go zed

1811
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 3: Jelani MLK and intercept his great piece on that will

1812
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 3: come up. And last question, what do you think of

1813
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:01,880
Speaker 3: the new set?

1814
01:33:03,760 --> 01:33:05,240
Speaker 1: Let me check that out. First of all, you already

1815
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 1: lied and told me that the last question was the

1816
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:07,920
Speaker 1: last question.

1817
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:09,839
Speaker 4: So I've already trusted.

1818
01:33:10,400 --> 01:33:12,320
Speaker 14: Let me see it. Can we put I've only seen myself.

1819
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 14: I have to see this.

1820
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 3: You can't say.

1821
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 14: Aesthetic critique on Twitter.

1822
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:18,559
Speaker 3: I'll send you a pic.

1823
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 14: I think it's very fucking good. I think it's I

1824
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:25,799
Speaker 14: like the color scheme. I like how gigantic I am.

1825
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 14: So yeah, I'm not even a positive feedback so far.

1826
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,240
Speaker 4: You're like an Easter island heads.

1827
01:33:32,240 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 14: I hover above you, guys.

1828
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 3: It's very it's very positive, very very intimidated. Back here.

1829
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 5: Well, we couldn't think of a better better guest for

1830
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 5: our first day on the new set than Glenn Greenwald.

1831
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 4: Go watch a.

1832
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:47,599
Speaker 5: System update over on Rumble. It's fantastic. Subscribe on locals Glenn.

1833
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:48,639
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for joining.

1834
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 14: Great to be with you guys. Thanks for having me.

1835
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:51,800
Speaker 3: Have a good day, and then I'll do it for

1836
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:54,519
Speaker 3: the first episode of Counterpoints over here on the new set.

1837
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 3: Thanks everybody for bearing with any technical difficulties, but I

1838
01:33:57,120 --> 01:33:57,960
Speaker 3: think it was pretty smooth.

1839
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 5: We think it went great, and that's a huge Submid's

1840
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 5: all the hard work Griffin and Mac, the production team, Colvin,

1841
01:34:03,479 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 5: everyone has been putting into this new set. They've been

1842
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 5: working over the weekends at nights like literally building this,

1843
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:11,759
Speaker 5: putting it together for many, many months behind the scenes.

1844
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:14,880
Speaker 5: We are enormously grateful to them for all of that.

1845
01:34:14,960 --> 01:34:16,519
Speaker 5: And one thing I want to say, just to wrap

1846
01:34:16,680 --> 01:34:18,679
Speaker 5: up the show Glenn's point.

1847
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 4: I mean one thing to underscore.

1848
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:23,679
Speaker 5: It's absurd that Joe Biden should not have to confront

1849
01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 5: these arguments, whether they're made by RFK Junior or Mary

1850
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:29,600
Speaker 5: and Williamson on a debate stage on pressing issues.

1851
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 4: Like Ukraine, like Israel, like everything.

1852
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 5: The idea that the man is just going to skate

1853
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 5: to a second term without actually having to confront anybody

1854
01:34:37,080 --> 01:34:38,880
Speaker 5: on a debate stage, I think is ridiculous.

1855
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:42,640
Speaker 3: It's so wild because a Democrat could challenge him in

1856
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:44,720
Speaker 3: a serious way. I think RFK Junior is going to

1857
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:49,640
Speaker 3: have a ceiling. Maryann Williamson has a ceiling. But the

1858
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 3: opening is very much there for somebody if they would

1859
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:54,599
Speaker 3: take it. But it feels like it's a situation where

1860
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:58,400
Speaker 3: if you challenge Biden and you beat him, you become president.

1861
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:00,320
Speaker 3: But if you challenge him and lose, you're you'll be

1862
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:02,600
Speaker 3: driven out of the Democratic Party. And it shows that

1863
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:05,960
Speaker 3: so many members of the Democratic Party who are in

1864
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 3: good standing value their good standing more or even then

1865
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:12,360
Speaker 3: their ambition to become president of the United States, which

1866
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:14,240
Speaker 3: is just an incredible comment.

1867
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:16,880
Speaker 5: It's why basically only Bernie Sanders ran against Hillary Clinton

1868
01:35:16,880 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen.

1869
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:19,719
Speaker 4: When that was ripe for the taking.

1870
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 5: And on that point, we stand with James Vanderbeek, which

1871
01:35:23,479 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 5: as we close out the show, I will just say, man,

1872
01:35:27,760 --> 01:35:29,919
Speaker 5: you know what I love about James Vanderbeek and Crystal

1873
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:34,120
Speaker 5: and you Ryan is that you guys work so hard

1874
01:35:34,160 --> 01:35:36,240
Speaker 5: and do a fantastic work, but at the end of

1875
01:35:36,240 --> 01:35:39,160
Speaker 5: the day, you love your kids more than anything, and

1876
01:35:39,280 --> 01:35:41,679
Speaker 5: you show I think it's especially important to show.

1877
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:43,960
Speaker 4: People my age how you can make that happen. So

1878
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:47,040
Speaker 4: congratulations to both you and James Vanderbeek.

1879
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 3: Is he of what's Vanderbeek's like relation to kids or whatever?

1880
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 4: Homesteadying has a ton of kids.

1881
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,479
Speaker 3: His social media is just all of I gonna start

1882
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 3: following this guy. He seems like a big deal.

1883
01:35:59,320 --> 01:36:02,120
Speaker 15: Yeah, we had to basically explain what a big deal

1884
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:06,320
Speaker 15: James Vanderbeek was to Ryan, and I shared a very

1885
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:09,240
Speaker 15: embarrassing story about my crush on James Vanderbeek in middle

1886
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:10,080
Speaker 15: school with the team.

1887
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 4: I'm not going to share it here, but needless to say.

1888
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:13,799
Speaker 14: I was speaking.

1889
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 3: You just shared it.

1890
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:18,719
Speaker 4: No, it involves an iPod video anyway.

1891
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 5: On that note, thank you so much for tuning into

1892
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:23,679
Speaker 5: the first edition of Counterpoints here on our new set.

1893
01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:24,400
Speaker 4: Thank you to the team.

1894
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for all the premium subscribers for

1895
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:27,479
Speaker 5: making this possible.

1896
01:36:27,560 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 4: You can watch the.

1897
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:31,960
Speaker 5: Full show start to finish, no interruptions. If you are

1898
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:35,439
Speaker 5: a premium subscriber over here on Counterpoints, we appreciate it.

1899
01:36:35,520 --> 01:36:36,439
Speaker 4: Hope everyone has a good week.

1900
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:37,240
Speaker 3: We do see you later.