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Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous historians. This classic episode has an unexpected gift.

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Speaker 1: It's a special guest, longtime friend of the show, our

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Speaker 1: pal Rowan Newby. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of Rowan Newby, he doesn't do the podcast pitches anymore.

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Speaker 2: But a record that he and I made together that

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Speaker 2: took us many, many years, just came out. It's on

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Speaker 2: Spotify Rowan Neuby. It's called some Hippie You Turned Out

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Speaker 2: to Be. And the record just got picked up by

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Speaker 2: our cool indie label out of Philly called Perpetual Doom.

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Speaker 2: So do check it out. I think there's gonna be

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Speaker 2: physical versions coming soon.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you guys did phenomenal work on that. We

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Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit off air. I love

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Speaker 1: oh that lonely song, Once You've Been Lonely, Once You've

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Speaker 1: Been Lonely. That's a banger. Check it out and no'll

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Speaker 1: do please save me a vinyl.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but maybe Perpetual Doom will be putting it out

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Speaker 2: in that format.

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Speaker 1: And so in this episode, which is part of a

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Speaker 1: on and off continuing.

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Speaker 2: Series, mainly off, but man, it's reminding us. I think

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Speaker 2: we should bring it back.

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Speaker 1: We should bring it back. We had ruin with us.

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Speaker 1: We also later, I think in this series, we talked

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Speaker 1: to longtime friend of the show, our brother in arms,

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Speaker 1: Frank Malheran.

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Speaker 2: About crack, not like the drug, the word the Irish parlance.

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Speaker 1: Yes, cr ai c. So we got interested in the

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Speaker 1: idea of idioms and favorite turns of phrases. We can't

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Speaker 1: wait for you to hear this one, folks, and get

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Speaker 1: to your podcast platform of choice as you're listening, and

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Speaker 1: let us know any turns of phrases that we unintentionally

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Speaker 1: used without exploring the etymology thereof.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and Apaulo is all about this.

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Speaker 2: If you can hear a little barkie boy in the background,

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Speaker 2: he's excited for some idiomatic for the people.

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Speaker 1: Part one, Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. It's

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Speaker 1: often said that, how do you say it? A podcast

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Speaker 1: in one hand is worth two in the bush, or

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Speaker 1: you can take a podcast to water, but you can't

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Speaker 1: make it stream, you.

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Speaker 2: Can't teach an old podcast new tricks, or can you.

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Speaker 1: Don't look at gift podcaster in the mouth. These may

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Speaker 1: not be the exact verbatim figures of speech or turns

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Speaker 1: of phrase, but by gosh, by golly, by gum, those

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Speaker 1: things are fascinating nonetheless, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm Ben, Hi, I'm Noel, and this is ridiculous history.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, we should tell people the name of the show.

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Speaker 1: We are a company, of course, as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. Give them a hand if you're

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Speaker 1: not driving. And this is a very special episode for

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Speaker 1: us NOL. It's true we are exploring some strange dare

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Speaker 1: I say, ridiculous idioms and figures of speech. But we

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Speaker 1: are not embarking on this journey alone, my friend. Oh no,

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Speaker 1: we have joined forces with a good friend of ours,

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Speaker 1: friend of the show, podcaster, producer, musician.

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Speaker 2: Just regular you know, all around jack of all trades,

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Speaker 2: renaissance man.

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Speaker 4: You can't hear.

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Speaker 1: This, but I'm blushing right now, really ridiculous historians. Rowan, newbie,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show man.

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Speaker 3: It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Rowan, that's

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Speaker 3: your real name. Yeah, it's another here.

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Speaker 2: Nor There has a fantastic podcast called Pitches, where in

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Speaker 2: various entertaining comedic people, smart people, funny people come on

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Speaker 2: and pitch pretty horrible ideas for product or films or

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Speaker 2: books or really anything that would require a pitch to

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Speaker 2: try and sell.

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Speaker 3: Is that right? I couldn't have said it better myself.

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Speaker 1: Well, terrible ideas right there?

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Speaker 3: Maybe unorthodox, they're unorthodox, Okay, that's fair.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it's almost scary when we stumble upon a good

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Speaker 4: idea because we don't know what to do. There's off

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Speaker 4: we're like, uh, no, go, you know, let's cut this.

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Speaker 4: You quickly copyright and we'll save this episode or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Browan was kind enough to have me on as a

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Speaker 2: guest of a very early episode of the show, and

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Speaker 2: we kind of stumbled upon a reality show idea for

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Speaker 2: like masked performers, and it was more in the DJ space.

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Speaker 2: But then the other day we looked at the TV

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Speaker 2: and now there's the masked singer Lo and behold Low

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Speaker 2: and behold parallel thinking at its finest is low and

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Speaker 2: behold the name of the artist.

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Speaker 3: That's a good idea. It would be with zeros though.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, naturally, And it's weird how quickly that

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Speaker 1: that idea just evolved. Right. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: we're we we explore often here on Ridiculous History will

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Speaker 1: be the strange turns of phrases that emerge, especially in English,

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Speaker 1: but in all languages over the unending game of telephone

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Speaker 1: that we call history. Right, there are some weird ones.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys have ever seen those

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Speaker 1: great compilation articles about phrases in other languages that just

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Speaker 1: don't translate, you know, like things that make sense in Turkish,

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Speaker 1: for instance, but not English. It turns out that our

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Speaker 1: language has a ton of those, and today we combined

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Speaker 1: our forces to explore a few that captivated us, and

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Speaker 1: to do our darnedest, since we're family show, to discover

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Speaker 1: the origin behind these phrases. Right, this is the right

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Speaker 1: episode for that.

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Speaker 2: It is, and I think it's actually a repeatable model.

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Speaker 2: I think if this goes well, we could maybe do

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Speaker 2: some more of these. My dear friend, your dear friend,

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Speaker 2: Rowan's dear friend, Frank actually came up with a great

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Speaker 2: name for the segment, or this type of show. We

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Speaker 2: could call it Idiomatic for the People, Hey like as

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Speaker 2: a nod to Georgia Boys Rim and their seminal album

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Speaker 2: Automatic for the People. I had a little bit more

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Speaker 2: of a self deprecating name, which would be idiots on Idioms.

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Speaker 1: I think you know what. I like both of those.

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Speaker 1: I like both of those. I did not prepare a

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Speaker 1: name for this segment.

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Speaker 3: For sure, there's music in both of them.

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Speaker 1: It's true, there we go. But what So we decided

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Speaker 1: to do this episode and then we split apart and

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Speaker 1: solo style, gave ourselves some homework, and the one of

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Speaker 1: the conversations we had was about whether we should let

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Speaker 1: each other know in advance which idioms we're bringing the table,

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Speaker 1: or whether we should surprise one another.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a mixed bag, right, It's a mixed bag,

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Speaker 2: and I know some of them, and then on some

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Speaker 2: of them I don't know, and I'm excited for all

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Speaker 2: of them.

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Speaker 1: Actually, without further ado, gentlemen, what do you say, who

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Speaker 1: shall be the first to cast their word hat into

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Speaker 1: the word ring?

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Speaker 2: Well, Ben, I meant you didn't let us know any

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Speaker 2: of yours, so I'm kind of on the edge of

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Speaker 2: my seat. Do you mind going first with one of

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Speaker 2: your choices?

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Speaker 1: Sure? Absolutely. There is a phrase that is very common

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Speaker 1: even nowadays, and it is something that should be familiar,

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Speaker 1: I think to all native English speakers, regardless of the

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Speaker 1: country and which you live. It's something ruin that you

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Speaker 1: and I have said before in casual conversation. It is

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Speaker 1: to butter someone up. Oh, stop buttering me up. Noel,

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Speaker 1: you and I have used this as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it always kind of weirds me out a

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Speaker 2: little bit because it makes me think of, you know,

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Speaker 2: covering someone in delicious.

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Speaker 3: Spreadable butter.

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Speaker 4: I mean, if you're friends with someone who's you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe a dinner roll, or you're friends with a turkey

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Speaker 4: maybe you know, I don't know, baste me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, please, it's implying a very intimate form of physical contact.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So it's strange because we use this phrase and we

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Speaker 1: all know roughly what it means. Flattery, right, maybe a

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Speaker 1: little bit of somewhere between flattery and pandering. This is

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Speaker 1: actually an ancient concept. I had no idea because a

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Speaker 1: lot of phrases, oddly enough, in English come from things

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Speaker 1: like the Bible or translations of it, or they come

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Speaker 1: from wars. However, to butter me up has a couple

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Speaker 1: of different proposed origins, and one of the most solid

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Speaker 1: or most widely accepted traces its origins back to ancient India. Huh,

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Speaker 1: which I did not see coming. So we're talking about

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Speaker 1: gee here, we were talking about gee. Yes, well done,

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Speaker 1: clarified butter clarified.

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Speaker 3: Gee.

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Speaker 1: So here's what would happen, guys. The idea is that

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Speaker 1: in ancient India, people would lob small balls of butter

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Speaker 1: of gee butter at statue use of various gods while

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Speaker 1: asking them for favors. It's kind of an inducement, the

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Speaker 1: same way that in some other religions you would offer

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Speaker 1: a favored treat of a god as a tribute. So

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Speaker 1: like cigars or alcoholic beverages or coins.

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Speaker 3: You know, blood of an infant, food, the skull.

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Speaker 1: Of an enemy or a loved one. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of various So butter is largely innocuous in

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Speaker 1: this idea, And in Tibet there's an even older custom

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Speaker 1: of crafting butter sculptures when the new year rolls around.

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Speaker 1: The sculptures are viewed as a way of bringing happiness

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Speaker 1: and peace in the coming year. So when we say

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Speaker 1: that we're buttering someone up, we are implying that either

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Speaker 1: they we are making them a statue every year, or

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Speaker 1: that we are giving them an offering in a transactional

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Speaker 1: way because we want their favor. So the meaning of

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Speaker 1: the meaning of this has become less blatant over time,

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Speaker 1: and now it just means be nice to someone, but

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Speaker 1: still I would argue with a soft implication soft and buttery,

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Speaker 1: that there is something expected in return. Yeah, so it's

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Speaker 1: like paying tribute, right, I mean because also I would

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Speaker 1: imagine we've done episodes in the past about how butter

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Speaker 1: was a very hot commodity, right, Yeah, Margarine versus butter

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Speaker 1: was a big thing too, but I think you're talking

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Speaker 1: about an older period of time, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it was also the one about the Protestant Reformation

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Speaker 2: about how those butter indulgences were such a thing because

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Speaker 2: it really pointed to the fact that, you know, the

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Speaker 2: powers that be didn't actually care about good works and

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Speaker 2: being pious. It was more just a way of like

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Speaker 2: depriving people of things and giving the rich what they

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Speaker 2: wanted as long as they could pay for it. So

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Speaker 2: it's interesting butter has always been kind of a divisive

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Speaker 2: and tasty.

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Speaker 1: Treat, even as recently as the eighteen seventies, right, because

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Speaker 1: there was the law about how Margarine had to be

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Speaker 1: dyed pink so that people would know it was not

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Speaker 1: true butter that I think Wisconsin was one of the

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Speaker 1: last holdouts for that. But yes, that's it, So butter

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Speaker 1: me up the next time you want to be one

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Speaker 1: of those. Actually, people, in a conversation at a cocktail

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Speaker 1: party or a soiree of your choosing, come armed with

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Speaker 1: that information and butter someone up by saying, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: that you already know the etymology of to butter someone up, but.

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Speaker 2: Here it is, I would ever do that. Nobody listens

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Speaker 2: to the show or anyone sitting in the room would

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Speaker 2: ever do it? Actually would you? Anyone butters what now?

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Speaker 2: And actually you would never go like, actually, you know.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't do it on purpose. I've been accused of

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Speaker 4: doing the glasses up the nose thing, but it's always

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Speaker 4: with a you take it with a grain of.

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Speaker 2: Salt, that's true, or a slap a ball of butter.

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Speaker 3: With a ball of butter. You know.

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Speaker 4: I think it's interesting, though, that you're really leaning into

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Speaker 4: it being a mostly nice thing. I take buttering someone

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Speaker 4: up as definitely wanting something and as manipulative. Kind of right,

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Speaker 4: buttering someone up I always just read as like, because

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Speaker 4: when someone's like, why are you buttering me up?

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Speaker 3: You know that tone implicates that it's ingenuous, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of gee whiz, or like this is not

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Speaker 2: when I was I don't believe this is when we today.

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Speaker 2: But it's sort of akin to blowing smoke up someone's

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Speaker 2: back sss, right.

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Speaker 1: Which I wonder since we can speculate on that when

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Speaker 1: I wonder whether that has anything to do with uh

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Speaker 1: Kellogg and his overwhelming love of what he thought were

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Speaker 1: medicinal enemas, including tobacco smoke. Is that right? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all about enemas.

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Speaker 2: I knew he's about animas, but I didn't know that

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Speaker 2: smoke was was in the equation tobacco water.

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Speaker 3: Weird, weird, true of the state.

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Speaker 1: There we go, So what's what's next? We've cracked the case.

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Speaker 1: I'm buttering someone up.

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Speaker 3: Well, I had one question.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they make so you're saying they made statues in

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Speaker 4: India of.

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Speaker 3: Their gods. I'm just searching for a genesh joke.

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Speaker 4: Somewhere in there there's an I guess that's found.

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Speaker 3: I'm really sorry.

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Speaker 2: No, you forget this is what kind of we have

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Speaker 2: been accused of absolute dependence on dad jokes.

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Speaker 3: So it's totally totally.

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Speaker 1: Part of wes I have come to the right place. Yes,

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Speaker 1: welcome home, we have. I would have been lauded for

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Speaker 1: uh the our attempts at humor.

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Speaker 3: Lolded potato potato.

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Speaker 4: My friends, are you saying that you get like listeners,

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Speaker 4: writing YouTube comments, being.

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Speaker 2: Likes enough with the dead jokes? Okay, well not on YouTube,

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Speaker 2: but on iTunes. Is it is a terrible place. Don't

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Speaker 2: ever go don't ever read the iTunes.

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Speaker 1: I get more emails and tweets and stuff like. Life

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Speaker 1: was hopeless until you guys did that run of puns.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. There's there's a light at the end of

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Speaker 1: the tunnel.

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Speaker 3: Our famous pun run. Oh I heard about that. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the charity twenty twelve famous pun run.

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Speaker 1: Yes, classic things will never be How is you guys

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Speaker 1: had no idea? Well we had luchador mask on. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's part of it. That's sexy. Well it seemed like

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Speaker 1: a good idea of time, and now it's tradition and

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Speaker 1: we were bound by that.

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Speaker 2: We are nothing if not fans of tradition.

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Speaker 3: So same is.

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Speaker 1: So what what's next? What's next?

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Speaker 3: Tuesday? I don't know who wants to go next? You

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Speaker 3: want to go next?

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Speaker 1: Sir?

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Speaker 3: And Newby? Yeah, okay.

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Speaker 4: The first one I'm going to talk about is nipp

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Speaker 4: it in the butt.

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Speaker 3: Nip it in the butt?

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Speaker 4: Come on, folks, we know what that means, or if

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Speaker 4: we don't we at least have used it and thought

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Speaker 4: that makes sense. Technically, it's a horticultural metaphor alluding to

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Speaker 4: putting a stop to something, uh, in its early stages,

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Speaker 4: before it becomes you know, negative.

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Speaker 2: Before it grows out of metastasizes and takes over your

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Speaker 2: entire garden.

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Speaker 4: Right, And it's derived from like debudding of plants and

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Speaker 4: the whole horticulture thing, because you cut the top then

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Speaker 4: can't grow into a beautiful fruit.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: So when you say it, it sounds to me like

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Speaker 2: whenever people use that, it's almost like a bit of

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Speaker 2: a tongue in cheek way of trying to sound southern,

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Speaker 2: kind of like just nip it in the butt.

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Speaker 4: It is.

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Speaker 3: I feel very particularly Southern.

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Speaker 4: Actually, I remember first hearing it from Barney Fife in

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Speaker 4: you know and the Grit of the show.

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Speaker 1: That's that's strange because I would also assume, if I'm

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Speaker 1: overthinking this that in the original horticultural sense, it's still

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Speaker 1: it doesn't kill the plant the root.

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Speaker 4: Still No, it does not kill the plant. It just

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Speaker 4: stops it before it can reach its you know, flowery climax.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So somebody, as for instance, say collecting way too many.

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Speaker 1: What's a weird thing for someone to collect tails? Tails?

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Speaker 1: They're collecting too many tails? T Ai aill. Okay, they're

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Speaker 1: collecting too many tails. And they say, okay, fourteen is enough.

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Speaker 1: It's getting weird. I'm going to nip it in the bud.

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Speaker 1: But that means they're not necessarily going to get rid

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Speaker 1: of the other fourteenth.

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Speaker 4: That's they're just nipping their weird tail collection in the

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Speaker 4: bud before people start calling that person, you know, the

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Speaker 4: tail freak of of Cincinnati. Now it's interesting freak.

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Speaker 2: There's actually even another version of this that is nip

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Speaker 2: it in the bloom, and it was first cited in

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Speaker 2: a work by Henry Chettel in a book called a

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Speaker 2: romance book called peers Plans seven Years Apprenticeship. I'm guessing

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Speaker 2: that's Old English. It's a p I E r A

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Speaker 2: s p l A. I almost sound in French for

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Speaker 2: a second, but then it's got years spelled y E

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Speaker 2: r E s, which is very Canterbury tail is if

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Speaker 2: you ask me, And that's from fifteen ninety five. Who

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Speaker 2: that doesn't quite add up to Old English, though, does it?

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Speaker 3: Guys?

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Speaker 1: I also found that this is one of those idioms

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Speaker 1: that people tend to mispronounce or misunderstand. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of people will see now, oh.

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Speaker 4: I already know what they think it is. They think

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Speaker 4: it's nip it in the butt? Is that what you

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Speaker 4: were going to say? Yes, you're correct, right, yeah, which

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Speaker 4: is ridiculous. What would what would nip it in the

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Speaker 4: butt mean?

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Speaker 3: What would that mean?

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Speaker 1: Just give it a little bite, a little tweak, yeah,

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Speaker 1: a little love bite.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So so I was actually wrong in terms of

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Speaker 2: Chettle was actually a contemporary of Christopher Marlowe, who was

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Speaker 2: like a contemporary of William Shakespeare. So the old English

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Speaker 2: talk kind of that that does hold true. But I

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Speaker 2: believe the cannabray tails were a little earlier than that.

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Speaker 2: But it does feel like right in that in line

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Speaker 2: with that, and that's where it first came from, which

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Speaker 2: is I didn't know either. But I'm just I'm just

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Speaker 2: googling away right now as we talk about this, because

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Speaker 2: you've you got mom.

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Speaker 4: I literally I literally didn't take that note because I

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Speaker 4: couldn't pronounce any of those words. Just so you know,

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Speaker 4: I also found that all.

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Speaker 2: Well, no, that's the thing though, I just want you

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Speaker 2: to to be very comfortable. A big part of this

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Speaker 2: show is the fact that we don't try that hard

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Speaker 2: to pronounce things correctly.

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Speaker 1: Other than wonder yes, because we do have We don't

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Speaker 1: want to be vague about this, We want to be specific.

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Speaker 1: We we have a francophone and our super producer, Wonderful,

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Speaker 1: he will he will handle a lot of the French

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Speaker 1: for us.

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Speaker 3: That's also because the French are the most judging.

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Speaker 1: Well, occasionally, it's because occasionally he'll he'll do it with

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Speaker 1: some reluctance, because we have just sprang it on him

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Speaker 1: and said, hey, Casey, here's a paragraph of French. Could

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Speaker 1: you just translate this for us?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he you know, he understands the game and

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Speaker 2: he is he is taken to it over time, and

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Speaker 2: now he doesn't even make a face anymore when we

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Speaker 2: ask him to help us.

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Speaker 1: Pronounce it takes a face on the inside.

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Speaker 2: As long as I don't see it.

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Speaker 3: He is a he is a champion.

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Speaker 2: Among that, I also feel like it's largely about yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're totally right, like getting rid of the early stages

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Speaker 2: of something so doesn't become something worse. But usually it's

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Speaker 2: about a problem right, or it's about like a person

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Speaker 2: it's like, we're gonna nip this in the bu We're

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Speaker 2: gonna like sort out this disagreement now before it gets

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Speaker 2: out of control and everything gets blown out of proportion.

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Speaker 2: That seems to be the way that I'm familiar with

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Speaker 2: it being.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Now, now I'm increasingly a fan, and thank

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Speaker 1: you for this rowin of uh nip it in the butt.

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Speaker 1: I am just gonna see you've just been sitting over there,

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Speaker 1: how long I can pull that off in normal conversation

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Speaker 1: before someone.

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Speaker 4: They do, but they do the finger wag and the

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Speaker 4: glasses and they go.

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Speaker 2: Actually, it's the butt. And I learned that from roun

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Speaker 2: Nubye on Ridiculous History.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, you know, I I co founded a host

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Speaker 1: that show, and then and they'll say who are you?

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Speaker 1: And I will, naturally, of course, as I always do

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Speaker 1: it in airport, say my name is Casey Pegram and

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Speaker 1: then proceeds to wage mayhem across the terminal, but well,

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Speaker 1: nipping it in the butt aside. Uh, this is I

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Speaker 1: think this is a I've learning a lot. I don't

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Speaker 1: know about you, guys.

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Speaker 2: Every day is a shiny new penny. As our cohort

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Speaker 2: Holly fod I likes to.

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Speaker 3: Say, and every day is a winding road.

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Speaker 4: As Cheryl Crow once said, It's true only once though,

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Speaker 4: Well I don't know that that song was pretty hot.

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Speaker 3: No, I mean she did it in one tech you

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Speaker 3: think so? No?

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Speaker 4: Is that true? This is also lies about Cheryl Crow podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: watch out, she listens to this show regular No.

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Speaker 1: She is also notorious heltigious, yes, incredibly touchy right, sorry,

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Speaker 1: and pedantic, Cheryl.

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Speaker 3: I'm just rasing you. I'm just nipping you in the butt.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: All of our iTunes reviews that are not favorable are

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Speaker 1: in fact written by Cheryl Crow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: She has like a clip farm, like in somewhere in

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Speaker 2: you know, Taiwan, where it's just like fifty young children

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Speaker 2: just writing mean reviews about ridiculous history.

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Speaker 1: It's where most of her royalties have gone. Actually, she's

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Speaker 1: put a lot of time in this, have to.

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Speaker 4: So most of your streams too, are from her click farm.

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Speaker 2: Yes, gosh, but you know you've made it when you

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Speaker 2: have like a true nemesis. And what better nemesis to

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Speaker 2: have than the multi Grammy award winning artist like Sheryl Crow.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys, you made this. Yeah, it's made it.

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Speaker 3: I've made it.

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Speaker 1: We're all holding hands right now, by the way, and

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Speaker 1: we it might sound like we're joking, but I want

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Speaker 1: to be completely sincere. I would like to confess something

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Speaker 1: about my personal life. As a child, I had a dream,

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Speaker 1: a recurring dream, where the violinist of Dave Matthew's band

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Speaker 1: hated me somehow knew who I was and despised me.

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Speaker 1: And eventually I thought, maybe that's maybe that's correct, maybe not,

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Speaker 1: just like I didn't think specifically of a nemesis, but

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Speaker 1: I thought, man, it would be amazing if I had

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Speaker 1: a celebrity, not a huge, huge celebrity, but someone who

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Speaker 1: was a celebrity who just knew me and intensely and

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Speaker 1: publicly didn't care for my whole life.

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Speaker 2: How did this manifest hself? Did he swat you with

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Speaker 2: his bow?

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Speaker 1: In the dream, which was a recurring dream, again, I

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Speaker 1: would go to a concert, a Dave Matthews concerts when

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Speaker 1: they were pretty big.

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Speaker 2: How you knew it was a dream because you never

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Speaker 2: go to a Dave Matthews concerts.

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Speaker 3: Some dream logic there my friends.

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Speaker 1: And I was, I was in the I was in

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Speaker 1: the concert. I was inevitably on a date. The person

441
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 1: I was dating would change because I had this dream

442
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: over a number of years. And then at some point

443
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: in the concert when they paused between songs, the violinist

444
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: of Dave Matthews group would come up and say, uh,

445
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,399
Speaker 1: I know Ben Bolan is in the crowd tonight and

446
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,959
Speaker 1: say horrible, horrible stuff about me. This is a true story.

447
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 3: Wow.

448
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: And I used to think it meant that I was

449
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: destined to go to a Dave Matthews concert, but I

450
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: have not done.

451
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: So I have an alternate theory. Well, first of all,

452
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 2: I inexplicably know that the violinist for Dave Matthews band's

453
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 2: name is Boyd Tinsley.

454
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 3: Wow, and he passed away.

455
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: He did pass well? No, I think he actually just

456
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: got kicked out of the band because it turns out

457
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,399
Speaker 2: he was not a good guy. I think he was

458
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: accused of some sexual harassment and and he got fired.

459
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:10,439
Speaker 1: Oh man, I might, in some incredibly useless way be

460
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 1: capable of precognitive dreams.

461
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 3: Possible.

462
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 2: I think that that Boyd Tinsley of the day of

463
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: Matthew's band represented your inner insecurity's been and it manifested

464
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 2: its front of God and everyone and and and you

465
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 2: had to contend with that night after night after night

466
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: like some kind of fresh personal hell.

467
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 4: Plus you went on. You were saying there was always

468
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: dates and that the girl changed that for the time.

469
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 4: It's probably because you were taking her to Dave Matthews

470
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 4: con never saw you again. What are you doing?

471
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: For the record? I believe it was Leroy Moore who

472
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: actually passed away. And the clarinets all right, and so

473
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,399
Speaker 1: so back to the subject of the podcast. Thank you

474
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: for joining me on that strange dream journey. Guys, I

475
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: hope I don't have that dream again in or how

476
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: long has it been It has been at lee at

477
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: least a decade.

478
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 3: Then you're cured.

479
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 4: We say that now there's really only two outcomes here.

480
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 4: One that you start having that dream again horribly in abundance,

481
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 4: or you never have it again because you've finally gotten

482
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 4: this off your chest and now.

483
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,640
Speaker 3: You're you're safe.

484
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: What would be the modern day equivalent of the violinist

485
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: for Dave Matthews Band. I know they're still around, but

486
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: would it be.

487
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: John Mayor of Dave Matthews Band, there you go, or

488
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 1: anybody in Coldplay aside from the main guy.

489
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, are you saying like the equivalent meaning another violinist.

490
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: Another sort of ancillary player and like a very like

491
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 2: contemporary giant, uber popular jam band who might possibly start

492
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,239
Speaker 2: appearing in Ben's dreams and talking smack dam.

493
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,439
Speaker 1: We may have cursed, we may have cursed me. It

494
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: may just be Sheryl Crow.

495
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 4: I was gonna say the guitarist for like regigainst the

496
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: Machine or Slash, you know, one of those like vice

497
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,239
Speaker 4: presidents of the band essentially where they're as famous but

498
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 4: not really. You know, you'll just all of them will

499
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: meet you, like uh at a dinner table. It will

500
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 4: be Slash, Keith Richards.

501
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: You know it's not you guys, I will carry Oh

502
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: no what, We will have your back, sir, We will.

503
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,919
Speaker 2: We will fight off this horde of trash talking.

504
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 4: Dream villains, weird bad band dream villains. But hey, we

505
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 4: should probably nip this in the buzz. And here from

506
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 4: nol my turn.

507
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 3: Pretty good? All right, that was pretty good.

508
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: It was absolutely proper use of that expression. And now

509
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 2: we actually know know a little bit more about where

510
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 2: it comes from. So here's mine. The funny thing about

511
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 2: a lot of these phrases is out of context. Like you,

512
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: you get so used to hearing them that you never

513
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: even think about what the words even really mean, right, I.

514
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 3: Think that's a big part of this.

515
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 2: So for me it was basket case, right, So I

516
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 2: we all know how basket cases you just referring to

517
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: someone that doesn't have their their life together. It's like

518
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 2: having a crisis or whatever you're saying or you can

519
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: say about yourself. It's like, oh, I'm such a basket

520
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: case today, nothing's going right for me. Disorganized, but more specifically,

521
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 2: it's like more of having like a bit of a

522
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 2: mental health break down. I think we can all remember

523
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 2: the seminole I've been using that word a lot in

524
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 2: this episode today, but I'm going to keep rolling with it.

525
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: Nineteen nineties Green Day song basket Case, where he talks

526
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 2: about how, you know, he gives himself the creeps, his

527
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: mind plays tricks on him.

528
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: He's cracking up.

529
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: He thinks he's had enough, he's paranoid, or he might

530
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 2: just be stoned. But he's having a hard time Billy

531
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 2: Joe Armstrong in his faux British accent.

532
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: And he's having a really hard.

533
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 4: Time that he is just he is just rolling the back.

534
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, he really has.

535
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: So here's the problem that I had when I started

536
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,960
Speaker 2: really thinking about before doing the research about basket case,

537
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: I think of the word case, and I think of

538
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: it as like a like a suitcase. So I'm like,

539
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: but isn't a basket already a case for things? Sure,

540
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 2: it's sort of a wicker case, right, it's a basket,

541
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: saying ATM machine. So when I thought it's a little redundant,

542
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: so I thought, maybe it just meant a useless thing

543
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: or a redundant, silly, ridiculous thing. Who needs a case

544
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 2: for a basket? A basket's already its own case. It's

545
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: like having a bag for a bag.

546
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: A waste.

547
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 2: Turns out nothing to do with any of that, Absolutely

548
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: nothing to do with any of that. The origins of

549
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 2: the term basket case date back to nineteen nineteen during

550
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: World War One, and it was a term that was

551
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 2: used to describe a particularly brutal type of wound or

552
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: series of wounds experienced.

553
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: By soldiers, the.

554
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: Dreaded quadruple amputation.

555
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: I think rember the quadruple amputation.

556
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: So you've lost your arms and your legs and are

557
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: therefore in need of being carried around in a basket. Therefore,

558
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: you are a basket case. And it of course is

559
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 2: morphed over time, and we'll get to that.

560
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 3: But here's the thing.

561
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 2: It actually has been consistently denied by army officials that

562
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: there ever were any basket cases. So here's the thing.

563
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: Early in World War One, well, and it goes on,

564
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 2: so the Surgeon General of the Army in nineteen nineteen,

565
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: the United States Surgeon General, said that there were no

566
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: foundation for any of the stories that have been circulated

567
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 2: because this term kind of had been making the rounds.

568
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 2: And he uses the term basket case to describe a

569
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: thing that he says doesn't exist. So he acknowledges the

570
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: term in its existence, but he says, but there are

571
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: no such cases as would be required to be carried

572
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: in baskets.

573
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: Right, So it's a paradox.

574
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: It's a bit of a paradox. But then you know,

575
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: we've got World War Two and the term kind of

576
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 2: stuck around in the zeitgeist, and yet again Surgeon General

577
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty four says, quote, there is nothing to

578
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: rumors of so called basket cases, and then goes on

579
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 2: to say cases of men with both arms and legs amputated.

580
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: So here's the interesting part. Apparently there was a case

581
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: of a Canadian soldier that is pretty well documented who

582
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: did experience quadruple amputations, but he actually went on to

583
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 2: lead a very productive life, and he was fitted with

584
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: prosthetic legs and even had a prosthetic arm fitted to

585
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,719
Speaker 2: him that allowed him to be able to write and

586
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: lived a very normal and productive life. And this comes

587
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: from a fantastic article on grammarphobia dot com that refers

588
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: to the basket case myth.

589
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 3: So obviously the term evolved over.

590
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: Time and became much more of an expression referring to

591
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: mental health and someone who, as we said at the top,

592
00:29:53,720 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: is experiencing trauma or anxiety or having some kind of breakdown. Right, So,

593
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 2: after World War Two, the term stopped being used to

594
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: refer to these kind of imaginary basket cases because there

595
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 2: was really no proof of them ever having existed. But

596
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 2: considering I don't know, Ben, you're a bit of a

597
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 2: war historian yourself in terms of your interests, can't you

598
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: imagine that there must have been at least a handful

599
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 2: of cases where someone had been injured so badly by

600
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: explosions that they may have had to happen. It doesn't

601
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: it seem a little fishy? This official line was like,

602
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: this never happened.

603
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: Well, here's the grizzly thing. It probably did happen, but

604
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: people's odds of surviving that that's the lower.

605
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: That's right, that's why the Canadian case was noteworthy.

606
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 3: That's a good point.

607
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: But that's an extraordinary story, man, Yeah it is.

608
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 2: And then somehow it just kind of, like things do,

609
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: evolved to a completely different meaning entirely because of the

610
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 2: fact that these cases didn't exist. But the term was

611
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: still floating around in that zeitgeist. People kind of started

612
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: adapting it and referring to people that didn't have their

613
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 2: act together. But then it's still it's still used today.

614
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is, obviously is a little bit

615
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: of a in poor taste kind of term. No matter

616
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: how you use it, right, it's a pejorative, especially if

617
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 2: you're talking about any person with a disability, and then

618
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: when you apply it to somebody that's having trouble psychologically,

619
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: that's also not very nice. So it's actually become more

620
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 2: in style to use it to refer to things and

621
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 2: nations as opposed to people. And there's a really interesting

622
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 2: article in The Guardian, I think it was a letter

623
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 2: to the editor, and it's called basket case the case

624
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: against and it talks about how it is just lazy

625
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 2: writing and it should not be used, and that then

626
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: it goes in cites how often it is used. So

627
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: apparently the Sun in the UK thinks that Greece, Zimbabwees

628
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 2: and Spain are basket cases, and that Prince William could

629
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: have been one, but then he married Kate Middleton, so

630
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 2: now he's okay, he's not a basket case. And then

631
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: you've got the Times that believes Greece and Argentina are

632
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: basque cases.

633
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 3: Africa once was, but now isn't.

634
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: They now refer to it as a bread basket. And

635
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 2: then they also talk about particular governments that are basket cases.

636
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: Companies too, companies that are basket cases.

637
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,400
Speaker 2: And this writer makes the case that it's just bad

638
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: writing and that it doesn't have any metaphorical power anymore

639
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: and to just let it go. And I would be

640
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: inclined to agree.

641
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: In some aspect. They got that from George Orwell's Rules

642
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 1: of writing. He is the guy who famously said never

643
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: use an idiom figure, speech or phrase that you are

644
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: used to seeing in print, and he broke that rule

645
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: often just by.

646
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 2: The way, yeah, and This commentary was by a writer

647
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: named David marsh and Ben. As you said at the

648
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 2: top of the podcast, war often brings new idioms into circulation,

649
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: and it makes sense because you have people of different

650
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: ethnicities mixing under times of great duress, and you've got

651
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: a lot of like kind of phrases commingle and take

652
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,720
Speaker 2: on new meaning and get adopted, you know, by different cultures.

653
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 2: And I think we had a couple that we want

654
00:32:58,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 2: to just throw out real quick.

655
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, sure. There's for instance, boondocks, which now is

656
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: meant to indicate a place in the middle of nowhere, right,

657
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: The boom doocks originally was a phrase in Tagalak in

658
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: the Philippines, and it just meant mountain. Or there's what's

659
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: another one, Pip squeak, Right, that's one.

660
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: Pips Squeak's an interesting one because that was actually a

661
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: very particular type of small German gun that was used

662
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: in trench warfare during World War One. And then you have,

663
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: speaking of trench warfare, the trench coat was very specifically

664
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 2: one a garment that was worn originally in trench warfare.

665
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 2: So that was a thing they didn't have a name for,

666
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 2: and then they called it a trench coat.

667
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 4: Interesting, I mean you call pip squeaks. You refer to

668
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 4: someone as a pip squeak if they're kind of just

669
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 4: a nerdy, precocious kid now.

670
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: Or in any way diminutive and not worthy of your respect.

671
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 3: Right?

672
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 4: Sure, that reminded me of another one flea bag actually,

673
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: as in like a flea bag hotel.

674
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: Oh I missed that phrase.

675
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, first to uh, grimy and just unsuitable sleeping arrangements.

676
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 4: You know, the word comes from slang actually used by

677
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 4: soldiers in the trenches referring to their sleeping bags.

678
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 2: So that would have often been absolutely infested with fleas

679
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: under these horrible conditions. So you know, from awful circumstances

680
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 2: sometimes come fun.

681
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 3: Idioms, yes, yes, and fun idioms, fun idioms, fun idioms.

682
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: Actually we anoyed. We have tintinabulated that way right, speaking

683
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: of downtown abbe it what I said, nintinabulated. So tintinabulation

684
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite examples of how you can

685
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: simply create a word out of more or less whole cloth.

686
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: I believe it was Edgar Allam Poe who used who

687
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: coined the term tintinabulation to mean the sound of bells ringing.

688
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 1: Whoa yeah, just the sound of ringing bells or the

689
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: sound after a bell has been rung. He just made

690
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: it up. He just styled on it. Or as we've

691
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 1: said before on this show, he churchified it. This idea

692
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: of bags, flea bags. It's an excellent segue. I have

693
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:15,320
Speaker 1: one that will be familiar to you Nolan, to you Casey,

694
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: and perhaps to you long time ridiculous historians or fans

695
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: of other shows. It is the phrase to let the

696
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: cat out of the bag or the badger, oh a

697
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 1: classic yes, yes, or in our case the badger. So

698
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: going back to what you said earlier, knowl about how

699
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: it's strange that certain phrases can just feel normal because

700
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: of the context in which they occur. Let the cat

701
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: out of the bag is something that everyone who speaks

702
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: English typically understands. Right to reveal a secret of some sort,

703
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: sometimes an unpleasant truth, sometimes a pleasant surprise. But when

704
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 1: you think about it, it's really strange, Like when's the

705
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,320
Speaker 1: last time you walk around with a cat in a bag?

706
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: Or someone was like, hey, will you hold this.

707
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: Bag for me?

708
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: Be careful it has a kit full of cats, full

709
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: of cats. There's no time to explain.

710
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: It feels like a very old person, bad habit, and

711
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,879
Speaker 4: it might stem from like a granny who was going

712
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 4: through a serious episode of dementia and had a foot

713
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,279
Speaker 4: kitty cat in a bag.

714
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: Or simply refused to pay for one of those cat carriers.

715
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 4: Right, and so I'm not gonna pay for it, though

716
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 4: I wasste fifteen dollars. I got this perfectly good bag.

717
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 2: I tend to picture the bag as being a pillowcase

718
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 2: and the act being much more of like I'm hunting

719
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 2: cats and I'm put the cat in the bag and

720
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: then I'm going to hit the bag drowning kittens.

721
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,399
Speaker 3: Or something like that Gumma style. Not good.

722
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 1: Well, luckily it's quite possibly not that dark, I have

723
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: to say, quite possibly. So. The first recorded use of

724
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:57,760
Speaker 1: this frame.

725
00:36:57,600 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: The positive the cat got out of the bag.

726
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: The first recorded use of it comes from this book

727
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: review in seventeen sixty in London magazine, and the reviewer

728
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: is complaining about this book that they've read, and they say,

729
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 1: we could have wished that the author had not let

730
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 1: the cat out of the bag. And so in this

731
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 1: context it seems like it still as a present day meaning,

732
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: which is that the author not spoiled a surprise or

733
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 1: secret in the book, but this was used other times

734
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: in print, and there are a few origin stories about

735
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: how it came about. I'll give you, guys the first

736
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: one and then tell you why I think it makes

737
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: no sense. So the first one is this idea that

738
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to open air market in

739
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: Britain and the concept of unscrupulous tradesmen or con artist.

740
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 1: The thing is that they would trade livestock right, including pigs,

741
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,959
Speaker 1: which were a big deal at the time, and people

742
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: would sometimes sell piglets in bags, or, as the expression goes,

743
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: pigs in a poke. Poke would be another one for bag,

744
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: not a blanket, not a blanket in front. They didn't

745
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: get it.

746
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 4: Not as delicious, not well, you know, to each their own.

747
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 4: But that's a corn dog actually, yeah, a pig and

748
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 4: a pillow. I'm sorry, going, no.

749
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 3: That's great.

750
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: Is that really a term?

751
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 3: No, man, it is as of right now, all.

752
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: Right, tend to nabulate it. So the idiom that's related

753
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,959
Speaker 1: to is when a pig is offered open the poke,

754
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: meaning that one should always check and inspect what you

755
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: have before you leave, after you buy it. Don't buy

756
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: some mystery thing in a bag just because someone told

757
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: you what it was. That concept or figure speech dates

758
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: back to at least the sixteenth century. I forgot where

759
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 1: an audio podcast, So everybody, I'm sort of feudally gesturing

760
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: with my thumb over my right shoulder for some reason.

761
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: That's where the sixteen hundreds are.

762
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: Well, now you made it audible, so we can picture it.

763
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: Now, there we go.

764
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,360
Speaker 3: Case you can throw in some sound effects too.

765
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: You've saved the show. So the idea is that these

766
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 1: con artists would instead of giving somebody a piglet sold

767
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: in a bag, they would capture and sell a much

768
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: less valuable feral cat. This was a profitable practice for

769
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: the con artist. But either way, the moment of the

770
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 1: revelation or the origin of the phrase in this story

771
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: is that someone would get home and they would open

772
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: the bag, and this we can only imagine incredibly irritated

773
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: cat would burst forth and recavoc you know, become an

774
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: agent of chaos. But this doesn't really make sense because

775
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: even the largest cat is going to weigh less than

776
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: a pig right, true, right, like a I'm not an

777
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: expert piglet handler, Yeah, it's not in my skill set.

778
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: Yet your cats are pretty big. They're almost piglets sized.

779
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: Oh I think, yeah, they're sort of luxurious, furry soft piglets.

780
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

781
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 3: Hey, and I've seen some emaciated pigs out there too.

782
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 1: So maybe there's a ven there's a sweet spot, there's

783
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: a ven diagram here.

784
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 4: Or maybe they made it a pig and a cat.

785
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna leave it at that. Okay, rhymes, that

786
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 4: was very doctor.

787
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, they made it a cat, and I'll leave it

788
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 3: at that.

789
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: Sound effects, So there's but there's the thing, all right,

790
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,120
Speaker 1: So this doesn't really make sense because additionally, pigs and

791
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: cats make audibly different noises. We can only assume that

792
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: they would probably not be chilling in a bag, so

793
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: we would hear some squeeze, some oincs, et cetera, and

794
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 1: then we hear some loud hisses and mews and uh,

795
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: you know, that seems easy to differentiate. But there's the

796
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: other idea that it comes from a Spanish phrase, the

797
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: Spanish equivalent do regato libre to give a cat for

798
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: a hair, because rabbits, sorry h r e rabbits are

799
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: commonly eaten. During the fourteenth fifteenth century, cat and a

800
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: rabbit are more similar in size, and it seems more

801
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 1: plausible to pull this switch ru this way. But the

802
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: third theory is that sailors would get in trouble in

803
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,879
Speaker 1: the Royal Navy, and the Royal Navy would keep them

804
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: in line with a coat of a cat of nine tails,

805
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: and that this was originally kept in a red sack

806
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: that people could that everybody was aware of, you know,

807
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: kind of a warning hanging out in public view. And

808
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 1: then when someone is going to be punished, the captain

809
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: would order that they'd be trotted out. Everybody on the

810
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: ship has to join on deck and then boom out

811
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: comes the red cloth bag and then boom out comes

812
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: the cat of nine tails and then upshrints and repeat.

813
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: So that's a little more grizzly. I'm also I mean

814
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: can take it out a pad of tails in a fact.

815
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 2: You know, that's interesting, Ben, because they both imply a

816
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 2: negative thing being released that can wreak some havoc when

817
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 2: it's let out into the world and one so they

818
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: both kind of hold true. I have one quick question, Bene.

819
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 2: You talked about the original let the Pig out of

820
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 2: the Poke or whatever it was about examining a purchase

821
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 2: you're going to make and how it would be smart

822
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:24,479
Speaker 2: to do that.

823
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 1: I think I know where you're going.

824
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: It's kind of the opposite of looking a gift horse

825
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 2: in the mouth, right, because that's impolite. If you're like

826
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: examining a horse's teeth that was given to you as

827
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: a gift, that's the no.

828
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,280
Speaker 3: No, even though it would be prudent.

829
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: Maybe, you know, even if a horse is a lot

830
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 2: of responsibility, even if it was a gift, I would

831
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: want to make sure I wasn't getting some kind of trash,

832
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 2: you know, diseased horse.

833
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want a horse to go to the dentist

834
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 3: through regularly.

835
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: Well you can tell the age of the oh, I

836
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: think is one of the one of the factors.

837
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: Or just I don't want a sickly horse, because then

838
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: I have to dispose of the horse. I might get

839
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,920
Speaker 2: close to the horse and become its pale, go on adventures,

840
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden the horse drops dead

841
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 2: and I'm left sad and alone. Horse, I want to

842
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 2: take a stick my head all the way.

843
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 3: In that mouth.

844
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 4: So that was it, And not to kick a dead

845
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 4: horse if you will, Okay, but yeah, I mean, if

846
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 4: who's given away horses. That's in thing.

847
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,959
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be at that point in my life where

848
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,880
Speaker 1: someone's like, hey man, I have this horse that I

849
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: thought of you. I don't know what I would do

850
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:29,959
Speaker 1: with it, but.

851
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 4: It would definitely be a well, wow, thanks. Do you

852
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 4: also give me a farm?

853
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 2: Nay, it's like somebody giving you, like, here's a field

854
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: for you to cultivate and farm.

855
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 3: And take care of and water.

856
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 1: It's an obligations, but that's a whole new career. Yeah.

857
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 1: The last thing about this cat and the bag idiom

858
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: whence you guys can tell you went on a little

859
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,759
Speaker 1: bit of a rabbit hole on is the idea that

860
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: it is a thing that cannot be reversed. It is

861
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: very difficult to get that cat back in the bag, right.

862
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: It's a Pandora's box or Pandora's jar situation. Pandora's bag,

863
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: Pandora's bag, thank you, Pandora's basket Handora's basket case bag.

864
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: So now oh we are now we are armed with that,

865
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: and I'm liking the I think I took us in

866
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: a weird animal direction, but I was just captivated because

867
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: I really wanted to know if there had ever been

868
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: you know, some prominent myth or some real life historical

869
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: occurrence wherein someone was like, all right, guys, I've got

870
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: this bag. I think there's a cat in it.

871
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 4: There's with me exactly? Well, it kind of was. I

872
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 4: guess cat out of the bag? Everybody you heard it.

873
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: Her first was the OG spoiler alert. Ah, yeah, that's

874
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: the cool way of saying it. Now, But God's out

875
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 4: of the bag. No one likes to say that. You know,

876
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 4: when you ruined the ending.

877
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 3: Of sixth Sense? All right, Grandpa?

878
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,919
Speaker 4: More more like the plots out of the bag, right, Yeah,

879
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 4: because that that guy is Bruce Willis the whole time.

880
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 4: That's true, always he was, Hailey Joe Osmond ambers, well

881
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 4: as the whole time.

882
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: I've just got to say it. I saw an episode

883
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 1: of Future Man.

884
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 3: You guys know that I thought you were just about

885
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 3: to ruin the ending of sixth Sense.

886
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: I just gotta say that.

887
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 2: I think that's past the statute limitation of Estaish this

888
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: and other shows.

889
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 3: But still, it's just what were you going to say?

890
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 1: Well, Haley Joel Osmond is still acting.

891
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was in Silicon Valley.

892
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: He looks very, very different. He looks he's a very

893
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: and I don't mean this in disrespectful way. He's got

894
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: he still has the same facial features in the same arrangement, but.

895
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 2: He's he's large, big, but the face is just kind

896
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: of thropped in the middle of his head.

897
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

898
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: I think he's really funny and I really good guy.

899
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: He's on Comedy Bang Bang a lot, and he on

900
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: the Comedy Band Bang TV show, and they kind of

901
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: played into that slightly odd look because he plays a

902
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 2: character called slow Joey, So I mean, I didn't that

903
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 2: wasn't my idea, but.

904
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 4: You know, he definitely has a sense of humor and

905
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 4: oh absolutely, I mean like him on Silicon Valley is

906
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 4: a similar kind of you know, hair brained character, Isn't.

907
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: He also kind of a weird back an alien, kind

908
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 2: of debauched, weird Hollywood execuey type guy who is always

909
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 2: drugging and boozing and womanizing.

910
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 3: Did I make that up?

911
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:34,399
Speaker 4: I kind of he seems more like dopey and brought

912
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 4: out of Bushatail as opposed to the other guy who's

913
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: like that, who's like really maniacal.

914
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: Characters.

915
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 2: Well, Haley Jolas, But if you're listening, is he on

916
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:44,319
Speaker 2: Future Man?

917
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: Is that Future Man? He is without spoiling the thing.

918
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: He's also unhinged in future, man, I was just watching

919
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,319
Speaker 1: on surprise because I didn't believe it was him at first.

920
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 3: I've never seen it.

921
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 1: You know it's worth your time.

922
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 4: I'll watch it in the future, man.

923
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: Right, well, let the cat out of the back row

924
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: a movie? What else do you have for us? Hey?

925
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 4: You know both of you two.

926
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 3: I like the cut of y'all's jib. It's true.

927
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 4: Is jib right here? That jib this whole thing? Uh

928
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 4: huh the jib over there too.

929
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: I stay jib and I see it.

930
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 3: You guys have heard this probably, Oh yeah, kind of

931
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:18,879
Speaker 3: you can.

932
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,760
Speaker 2: Assume mainly on the Sopranos.

933
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 4: Mainly on the Sopranos, for sure. It's actually from maritime traditions.

934
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 4: It's as old as like seventeenth century, eighteenth century. It's

935
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 4: referencing the triangular shaped sail known as the jib. Some

936
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 4: ships actually have more than one jib sail. They all

937
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 4: have their own style. And I guess that's kind of

938
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:39,400
Speaker 4: refers to when you say I like the cut of

939
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 4: your jib, it's like, oh, like, I like your style, man,

940
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 4: I like your vibe.

941
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so.

942
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 2: This is actually, the jib is the fabric the sale exactly.

943
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 3: Okay.

944
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 4: Oh and another thing, and I don't know if this

945
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 4: was verified or but I read that because these jib

946
00:47:55,640 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 4: sails look vaguely like a nose, it could refer very

947
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 4: specifically to someone's facial features, which is pretty interesting.

948
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very specific compliment to give someone, right.

949
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: I feel like you have to know someone pretty well for.

950
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 4: Sure to be like, Hey, hey, Jimmy Duranty, I like

951
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 4: the cut of your jib. You know that's a joke

952
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 4: for the elders. Everyone googled Jimmy nose.

953
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: Come on, guys, doesn't he say like or something? He says,

954
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: make that up?

955
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,280
Speaker 2: Isn't his big nose isn't. Also quite red and largely

956
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,239
Speaker 2: probably due to burst blood vessels from alcoholism.

957
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: Bulbous from the gin gin face for days. That makes sense.

958
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: So wait, what is a jibsail? Though we know it's

959
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,280
Speaker 1: a sail, is it you said they have multiple ones?

960
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 4: Well, it's I'm assuming affiliated with the mass of the boat.

961
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 4: So which is the big wooden middle part that then

962
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 4: hoists the jib sail? I don't quote me on that,

963
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 4: but this is what I took in when I was,

964
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 4: you know, scrambling to learn the anomology of chip.

965
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: And I'm surprised to learn that there's this nasal illusion.

966
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna start calling people's noses jibs for sure.

967
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 3: Keep you jib clean, Keep you jib clean.

968
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: Man, Well you mean so.

969
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 4: With noses, peop, don't be putting your jib in other

970
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 4: people's you know, jibs.

971
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 3: This Do you remember jib jab? Okay, we're going off tangent.

972
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: No, no, Now, I'm just going to replace the word

973
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,319
Speaker 1: nose with jib every time I every time the opportunity

974
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,720
Speaker 1: presents this, along with nippet in the butt, is setting

975
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: up my next.

976
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 4: Oh my god, butts and noses, and then that's that's

977
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 4: a perfect setup for a brown nose. Of course, think

978
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 4: about that, which is kind of one that I thought

979
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 4: about earlier as well.

980
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 3: That's disgusting. Fair enough, that's discussed.

981
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 4: Because it refers to the on news because you're kissing

982
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,880
Speaker 4: someone's booty so hard, well, you know, the rest is obvious.

983
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 3: But then that's why I didn't actually choose that one,

984
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:08,360
Speaker 3: because it seems obvious.

985
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: Well, there's someone maybe who has a who's just having

986
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 1: a uh. The more you know moment right now, Brown.

987
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: Right, the light bulb over their head just bursts.

988
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 4: They're like, oh okay, I get it, Brown, Nos got it, Pope.

989
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: I want to check in real quick, Casey or any

990
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: of these surprising you so far?

991
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 3: Uh? I hate to be the unactually guy. But no, not.

992
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 4: Well hold on, Casey, you didn't know the history of

993
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 4: all these. You assumed this is an educational program. This

994
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 4: is true, this is true.

995
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: Well, we still luckily have one more shot to uh

996
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: surprise and unactually are again very beloved super produce.

997
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 4: Unactually Is that cannot be our next podcast?

998
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: I love Unactual Actually?

999
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: Noel are our hopes for this episode? Today rests with you,

1000
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: my friends. Oh man, that's a lot of pressure.

1001
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 2: And I'm struggling right now because our internet has has

1002
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 2: just abandoned me.

1003
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: It has forsaken me. We don't use the wall recording.

1004
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:23,360
Speaker 4: That is a lie. This is straight from our endless

1005
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 4: Jeopardy brands.

1006
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's that's very very nice, Very nice of

1007
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: you to think that Rowan knew me.

1008
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 3: But alas that is not the case.

1009
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 2: Although to be fair, Ben and I are the only

1010
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 2: ones with laptop machines in front of us, right now.

1011
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,360
Speaker 3: Rowan is pure pen and paper. I am more paper

1012
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 3: and brains. Well that's what rowan is.

1013
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: Doom doom, doom, doom doom.

1014
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 2: Are you doing Ice Ice baby or under pressure?

1015
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 1: You know what? Man, Let's be honest. Vanilla Ice ripped

1016
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: it off.

1017
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: They're just kind of intertwined at this point, right, that.

1018
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,520
Speaker 1: Great moment in that VH one, uh whatever the show was,

1019
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: We're he tries to play the music yeah yeah, where

1020
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: he tries to explain they're different because he.

1021
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 4: Says, there's a yeah, this is an extra, an extra

1022
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 4: blipt up.

1023
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 2: Well, you guys, I'm I'm ready.

1024
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: I'm ready to take on this.

1025
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:23,319
Speaker 2: And it's actually really serendipitous. I I did know what

1026
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: our pale rowan was going to do with the cut

1027
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: of the GiB and all, but I didn't actually do

1028
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 2: any research into it.

1029
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 3: I had no idea that it was a nautical term.

1030
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 2: As it turns out, mine is also a nautical term,

1031
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: and it involves not the jib or the sail itself.

1032
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 2: And it's actually really interesting because I think that these

1033
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 2: things sound god like they should be flipped. Mine is

1034
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: three sheets to the wind, and as it turns out,

1035
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:50,279
Speaker 2: in nautical parlance, a sheet which you would think would

1036
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 2: be the sail. Not so, it's the line that tether's

1037
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 2: the sail.

1038
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: Interesting, right, and someone is very inebriate.

1039
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 3: And very aebriated. I I didn't know this one at all.

1040
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 3: I didn't even have any inkling.

1041
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 2: It's one of those ones that I just chose blindly

1042
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 2: to use. Sometimes I would even go so far as

1043
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,960
Speaker 2: to say more than three sheets, you know, for sure

1044
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 2: sheets your seven sheets, you're ten sheets to fifteen sheets to.

1045
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: The wind, target linen department, to the exactly your blotto.

1046
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 3: Wind, exactly whatever.

1047
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Rowin you may not have I don't know

1048
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 2: how much of a steadfast Fana ridiculous history you are.

1049
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 2: But we did do an episode where we kind of

1050
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 2: listed through Benjamin Franklin's expressions for being drunk, and ben

1051
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 2: just listed a few there great, But one that Benjamin

1052
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:44,279
Speaker 2: Franklin did not come up with is three sheets to

1053
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 2: the wind. And this is this is so crazy to me,

1054
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,800
Speaker 2: because yeah, these were not sheets or sails as you

1055
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 2: might think. There wasn't even wind, well there hopefully was,

1056
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 2: or else the ship's not going to go.

1057
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 4: Sorry.

1058
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 2: They were lines, ropes, sometimes they were chains and they're

1059
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: the things if you've ever been on a sailboat or

1060
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 2: a sloop of some sort of perhaps a barge. No,

1061
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: barges don't have sails.

1062
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1063
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 4: I'm not a I'm a I'm a bit of a

1064
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 4: I'm a land love what they call that.

1065
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're fixed to the bottom corners of the sails

1066
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,120
Speaker 2: to hold them in place so that they catch the wind.

1067
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 2: And again, if there's any sailor types out there, forgive

1068
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: my ignorance. I'm doing the best I can. But I

1069
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 2: believe a sail would require three sheets to be properly

1070
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 2: fastened and uh and you know, tightened so that you

1071
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,560
Speaker 2: could actually manipulate it and put it, you know, in

1072
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:38,439
Speaker 2: the direction of the wind so it catches the wind.

1073
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,439
Speaker 2: So but again, this to the wind business doesn't even

1074
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: refer to the wind that's catching the sails.

1075
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 3: It refers to the.

1076
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 2: Sheets or the lines being loose range or in the wind.

1077
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 3: Huh.

1078
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 2: You know, like if there be steered, it can't be steered.

1079
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,640
Speaker 2: Not only that it's gonna be erratic because the the

1080
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 2: sail is there and catching some of the win, but

1081
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,920
Speaker 2: it's flopping around like crazy. And so in sort of

1082
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: resembling a drunk person stumbling around. Yeah, okay, so there

1083
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 2: are actually variations on this, right, So if you're one

1084
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 2: sheet to the wind, you're gonna not be quite as tight.

1085
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 2: You're gonna have a little bit of a little bit

1086
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 2: of a little tipsy yes, right. And then if you

1087
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 2: got two sheets, you're kind of in the middle there.

1088
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: And if you got three sheets, you're not looking good.

1089
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,280
Speaker 2: You're embarrassing yourself. Dad, go home.

1090
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 4: Your boat has sprung a leak, really will if you

1091
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 4: do not get an uber boat home?

1092
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 3: Yes, the thing and if it's not as should be.

1093
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 1: Also side note, in the time of f Scott Fitzgerald,

1094
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: the phrase tight was used to mean getting drunk.

1095
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.

1096
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a that is a very very good

1097
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: addition there, Ben. So it's interesting because this expression goes

1098
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 2: back to eighteen ninety one in a book by Pierce

1099
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 2: Egan called Real Life in London, and it this is

1100
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: out of context, and I'm getting this from an article

1101
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: on phrases dot org dot uk, which is fantastic for

1102
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 2: these etymological explorations, and the quote that they cite out

1103
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 2: of context is fantastic. Old wax and bristles is about

1104
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: three sheets in the wind.

1105
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,840
Speaker 4: It was old wax and I guess old wax and bristles.

1106
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 4: Everybody here, everybody was old wax and bristles, old wax

1107
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 4: and bold. And I like, it's three sheets in the wind,

1108
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 4: not to the winds in that, yeah, exactly.

1109
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 2: And then then it got changed to the wind and yeah.

1110
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: And then in this article as well, they talk about

1111
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 2: the scale of drunkenness that sailors had, where like I

1112
00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:45,720
Speaker 2: said before, three sheets was completely stupefied, falling over yourself, drunk,

1113
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: your tipsy, like you said, rowan was one sheet and

1114
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 2: then or a sheet in the wind's eye. And actually

1115
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 2: they don't listed two sheets, but surely two sheets was

1116
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: the middle ground has to be right, because that's going

1117
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,720
Speaker 2: to give you some stability on that sale, but not enough.

1118
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,080
Speaker 2: And they even have another example using a windmill, like

1119
00:57:05,120 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 2: a Dutch windmill, which would have four that's good, they

1120
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 2: would have four What do you call them turbans? No,

1121
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,799
Speaker 2: that's not one wing on a turbine is not a turban.

1122
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 2: The turbine, well they some some people in the engineering

1123
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:19,920
Speaker 2: community pronounce it turbine.

1124
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh, I know it's true.

1125
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,280
Speaker 2: I only know this because I used to work public

1126
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: radio and I covered the nuclear industry and I would

1127
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: interview these engineering nuclear nerds and they would call them turbans,

1128
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: and they actually and I'm doing it.

1129
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 3: I'm actually right now.

1130
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: And I'm pro nerd.

1131
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 2: So I love nerds, and I'm saying that sort of

1132
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 2: that is not what I'm doing it all, Ben, I

1133
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 2: love nerds. There are some Okay, you guys are really

1134
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 2: making me, but here we go. So, yeah, if you

1135
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: have four of these, you know, let's call them, what

1136
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: do you call one thing in a propeller, one part

1137
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 2: of a blades, blade, blades? Gosh, I am not doing yeah.

1138
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 2: So if you have like four of them, right, So

1139
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 2: if one of them is out of commission, he got three,

1140
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 2: that's going to be a very unstable.

1141
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 3: Turban, right, I mean for sure.

1142
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 2: So three sheets to the wind anyway, So there's more.

1143
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 2: It actually carries on in literary history in a novel

1144
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 2: called The Fisher's Daughter by a writer named Catherine Ward.

1145
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,440
Speaker 2: And here's another quote from this phrases dot Org article.

1146
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: From this work, Wolf replenished his glass at the request

1147
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,480
Speaker 2: of mister Blust, who, instead of being one sheet in

1148
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 2: the wind, was likely to get to three before he

1149
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 2: took his departure.

1150
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that makes sense.

1151
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: It's beautiful, beautiful expression. Is a beautiful qusson.

1152
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,360
Speaker 2: At this point we're still three sheets in the wind.

1153
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: And then we have the modern three sheets to the

1154
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 2: wind that comes in a book called the Journal of

1155
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: Francis Asbiret that talks about this gentleman's travels through Kentucky,

1156
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 2: through Kentucky and the United States. But yet this is

1157
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: an Englishman and the writer also English, and this is

1158
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 2: the line from this work. The tavern keepers were kind

1159
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 2: and polite, as Southern folks should be, and as Southern

1160
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: folks ought not to be. They were sometimes two sheets

1161
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: in the wind.

1162
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 3: Oh that liquid fire. That's so great.

1163
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 2: Not to crib too hard from the Incredible Phrases dot

1164
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 2: Org article, but it goes on to talk about how

1165
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 2: Robert Lewis Stevenson really popularized this phrase for a wider audience,

1166
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 2: because obviously Treasure Island was like a blockbuster of a novel,

1167
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 2: gave us all kinds of pirate parlance, right like shiver

1168
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 2: me timbers and talking about searching for treasure. You got

1169
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 2: your ex that marks the spot. The image of a

1170
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 2: pirate with a peg leg and a parrot. You know

1171
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 2: that whole all that, all that, all that imagery comes

1172
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 2: from from Robert Lewis Stevenson. And the quote that he

1173
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 2: uses with this phrase goes back to the old way,

1174
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 2: which is, maybe you think we are all a sheet

1175
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 2: in the wind's.

1176
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 3: Eye, but I tell you I was sober. Nah.

1177
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of great pirate slang in Treasure Island.

1178
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 1: I think there are also some arguments about how much

1179
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 1: of that was Stevenson going this is what I think

1180
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: a pirate will sound like, and how much of it

1181
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 1: was actual pirate speech. And you know what, we could

1182
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: do a great piece on genuine pirate speech because a

1183
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: lot of these guys tended to be polyglots. You know,

1184
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:39,440
Speaker 1: they met so many other people. But before we continue, Casey,

1185
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: could we have a drum roll? Please? Did Noel save

1186
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: the day? Was this a phrase that you were unaware

1187
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: of origin? Story wise?

1188
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 3: Yes, Casey on the case, I did it?

1189
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 4: Wowoa, WHOA.

1190
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 2: Just kidding, guys, it's getting We all did it. Everyone

1191
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 2: brought amazing stuff to the table. Thank you so much.

1192
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 2: Rowan Newby of Pitches Podcast Fame. Check it out. I

1193
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: think it's on SoundCloud now, but soon it will be

1194
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: on iTunes and all the places you find podcast at

1195
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,920
Speaker 2: Pitches podcast not for the kiddos.

1196
01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 3: It's it gets it.

1197
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 2: Gets pretty pretty blue at times.

1198
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:21,959
Speaker 3: It gets a little blue.

1199
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,760
Speaker 1: Well, if you want your kids to have an accelerated

1200
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:34,320
Speaker 1: learning course in the ways of languish, yeah, it's not

1201
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: that bad.

1202
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 3: You guys.

1203
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 1: Well, if you like the cut of ridiculous Histories jib

1204
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 1: we imagine that you uh, you will go bananas. We

1205
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,800
Speaker 1: didn't look into what that means, but you will go pitches.

1206
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: So check it out. As Noel said, don't hesitate to

1207
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:55,280
Speaker 1: get thee to the internet in the meantime. Yeah, thanks

1208
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 1: so much for coming broin.

1209
01:01:56,640 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 3: Really been a pleasure.

1210
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,520
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure here too. It's always a pleasure

1211
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 2: hanging out rowing just like me and Ben. We always

1212
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 2: say this. I think we say it so much people

1213
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 2: might think we're not telling the truth, but I swear

1214
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,640
Speaker 2: we are in fact all friends outside of the show

1215
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: and we hang out. And it was nice to have

1216
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 2: you enter the shipping container, the podcasto sphere with ridiculous history.

1217
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:19,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I'd actually like to get a picture of you

1218
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: Rowan if you're comfortable with that. Its been port of

1219
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: face to a name, and we'll pop it up on

1220
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: my Instagram which is at ben Bulin. Maybe we'll get

1221
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 1: our ridiculous history folks to retweet it or I'm sorry regram.

1222
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 2: It was that a thing has a separate app for that.

1223
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:37,400
Speaker 2: It's a really annoying analyst that it's a weird one.

1224
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 2: I'm really into the stories. I think it's a lot

1225
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:41,480
Speaker 2: of fun. That's really the closest thing you can do

1226
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 2: to regramming stuff. Put them on those stories. You can

1227
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 2: check me out at Embryonic Insider. You can check rowing

1228
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,040
Speaker 2: out at Pitches podcast. On the Instagram, you can check

1229
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:53,360
Speaker 2: out Ridiculous History at Ridiculous History. Also, if you want

1230
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: to hang out with your fellow Ridiculous historians, you can

1231
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 2: do that on our Facebook group which is the Ridiculous Historians.

1232
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 2: You just have to name one of our names, or

1233
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: Casey's name, or you know what we make us laugh?

1234
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:07,000
Speaker 3: Oh, name dropping. That's another one we didn't talk about.

1235
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,320
Speaker 3: That's very true. That can probably figure out where that

1236
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 3: one go.

1237
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,160
Speaker 2: Big Thanks to super producer Casey Pegrim and Alex Williams,

1238
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 2: who composed our theme.

1239
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 1: Yes, Thanks as always to our research associate team. Thanks

1240
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,680
Speaker 1: very much to you guys out there listening in podcast land.

1241
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:28,680
Speaker 1: This episode is over, but the story of strange phrases continues.

1242
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: When you are reaching out to us, let us know

1243
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: what phrase always sounded very strange to you, the.

1244
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 2: Origin story of something, and let us know if you

1245
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,840
Speaker 2: want to see idiots on idioms or idiomatic for the

1246
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 2: people rearing its head once again, iracy. There you go

1247
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 2: in the ridiculous history and a sphere.

1248
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: There we go.

1249
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,480
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time, folks.

1250
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1251
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.