1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: Gamp Safe Media. Gayboarties, one of the highest ranking law 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: enforcement officers in the state of Texas, knows how to 3 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 1: run a criminal investigation, how to organize and deploy resources, 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: how to ask questions and evaluate evidence, how to build 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,319 Speaker 1: a case against the bad guys. In fact, when his 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: brother Larry was murdered, he was a major in the 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: Criminal Investigation Division of the Texas Department of Public Safety. 8 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: Criminal investigations were literally written into his title. Now, any brother, 9 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: and especially one with those particular skills, would want to 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: track down the people who killed Larry, But Gabe is 11 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: also a professional. Criminal investigations are supposed to be unbiased. 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: Facts can't be colored by emotion, Decisions can't be made 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: out of anger or vengeance. There are also jurisdictional boundaries. 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: A murder in Brazoria County is typically investigated by authorities 15 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: in Brasoria County, not a major for a state agency 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: based in Austin, even if or especially if the victim 17 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: was that major's brother. Gabe is aware of all of this, 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: so in those first hours and days after Larry died, 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: he's trying to stay out of the way. He doesn't 20 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: want to interfere or even appear to interfere with a 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: proper investigation. But if he's asked, he can still be helpful. 22 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: I got a call from investigators and they said, hey, 23 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: your nephew is not really being forthcoming. 24 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: Gabe's nephew is Larry's son, Larry the Third. He got 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 1: that call not long after the shooting. 26 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,839 Speaker 2: Like, we feel like there's a lot more that he knows. 27 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: And that really pissed me off. Because your dad has 28 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: just been murdered. You need to tell it all. You 29 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: need to cooperate fully, tell them everything you know. 30 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: Did you talk? 31 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? 32 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: I did. One of the things I him is like 33 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 2: did you know about this? Were you involved in this? 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: And he said no, Uncle Gabe, I would never do that, 35 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 2: Like why wouldn't do that? And I'm like, well, what 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: do you know? It's like, you need to fucking cooperate 37 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 2: with law enforcement. That was your dad, but that was 38 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 2: my brother. And if you know something and if there's 39 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 2: some connections to the people that you know that we're 40 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: involved in this, then you need to cooperate. I said, 41 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: do you understand me? 42 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: From Campside Media and iHeart podcasts, this is the Brothers 43 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: or Teas episode eight, Generations I'm Sean Flynn. 44 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 4: Third was always getting in trouble for something. 45 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: This is Gloria, Larry's mother and Third's grandmother. We reached 46 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: out to Third multiple times and through multiple people, and 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: he never got back to us. But his family, sister's aunt, uncle, grandmother, 48 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: they all tell the same basic story that Third had 49 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: been in and out of trouble for years, mostly minor 50 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: and mostly involving drugs. 51 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 4: Larry would always pay him out of jail or you know, 52 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 4: give him money. He knew Third was doing things that 53 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 4: he wasn't supposed to be doing. He wanted to tell 54 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 4: him that it wasn't right. But I'm seeing in Third thinking, hey, 55 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 4: you know you used to do it, so why are 56 00:03:57,560 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 4: you trying to tell me not to? 57 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 5: You know, man that broke his ord. 58 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: And here's Antonio, who knew Larry since there were kids. 59 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 5: I mean, he tried his best he could with Third, 60 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 5: but you know, he was a grown man. And I 61 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 5: tell Larry all the time, man, he's gonna find his 62 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 5: own way. He's got to find his own way. But 63 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 5: he tried. He always tried to look out for Third. 64 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 6: Situation with Third, which is my nephew, it was pretty 65 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 6: tough for. 66 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: Him, and this is Wad Larry's brother in law. 67 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 5: But being that he was a father and kind of 68 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 5: went down that same road too, I would say maybe 69 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 5: he even took that personal. 70 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 7: Larry didn't want him to go down that path and 71 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 7: was not gonna enable or make it easy for. 72 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: Him cousin Vanessa. 73 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 3: But then at the. 74 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 7: Same time, Third could always piggyback off of who Larry 75 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 7: was and those connections were still there for him. And 76 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 7: I do also feel like where Larry was alive, that 77 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 7: Third could get away with a lot because of who 78 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 7: his dad was. It's like, Okay, I'm not gonna beat 79 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 7: your ass because I know who your dad is and 80 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 7: I'm cool with your pops, but you're on some shit 81 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 7: Like I think that being who he was saved him 82 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 7: from getting his ass beat a lot. 83 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 6: When we got there, it was a pretty chaotic scene. 84 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: This is Lieutenant Jeff Mink with the Brissooria County Sheriff's Office. 85 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: He was one of the first detectives on the scene 86 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: after Larry was shot. 87 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,799 Speaker 6: Third was very emotional. He had one of us scators 88 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 6: try to interview him. It was not working. He was 89 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 6: running around hollering. 90 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 1: Third friend Lucas is at the house too. He's not 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: being any more useful. Here's third sister, Larissa. 92 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 3: He's like, I'm not talking to no cops. I was 93 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: just robbed too long ago and the cops didn't do 94 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 3: nothing for me. And Da da da da da da. 95 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: Larissa saw Lieutenant Mink, who she knew. It was a 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: small town. She said she wanted to talk to him. 97 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: I remember telling him like, I don't trust Lucas. I 98 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 3: feel like he knows more than what he's leading. So 99 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: y'all need to question him. Y'all need to press him 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 3: and just see what he will tell y'all. 101 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 6: So the decision was to pull Lucas out of that environment. 102 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: Mink corrolled Lucas and drove him to the Sheriff's office. Lucas, 103 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: for the record, wasn't charged or implicated in any way 104 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: in the death of his friend's dad. We wanted to 105 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: talk to Lucas, but we couldn't find him. Even his 106 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: father didn't know how to reach him. At the Sheriff's office, 107 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: Mink thought Lucas was hesitant. 108 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 6: They weren't given us straight, straight answers. We weren't getting 109 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 6: even in the interview room at the Sheriff's office. Lucas was, 110 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 6: you know, just not wanting to give the information. 111 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,840 Speaker 1: Up, but he did give investigators one very useful piece 112 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: of information, the Instagram handle for a woman he'd met 113 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: up with at the club. It wasn't much, but it 114 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 1: was enough to get started, like finding the first corner 115 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: of a thousand piece jigsaw buzzle. With that peace, just 116 00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 1: like with the jigsaw, Mink and the rest of the 117 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 1: could begin putting together the full picture of what they 118 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: allege happened that night, the how and the why, and 119 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: eventually the who. That username led investigators to a woman 120 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: named Elina that night. She was twenty years old, with 121 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: her round face and long, dark hair and the outline 122 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: of a heart tattooed on her throat. We're not using 123 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: her full name because it's not important right now. She's 124 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: been convicted of nothing illegal involving the death of Larry Ortiz. 125 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: She just happened to know Lucas from Instagram. Third had 126 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: left the beach house earlier in the evening, about the 127 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: time Larry was winding things down. He drove over the 128 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 1: bridge to Freeport, then headed inland, where he met Lucas. 129 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: They started off there downtown like Jackson drinking. 130 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: Their first This is Larissa again. 131 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 3: Then over time they ended up at fifteen oh four, 132 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 3: which is a was a night club in Freeport. It's 133 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: no longer there anymore. 134 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: The owner of fifteen o four happened to be Larissa's 135 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: old softball coach and an old friend of Larry's, and later, 136 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: after everything happened, she reached out to Larissa. 137 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 3: She was like telling me what she's singing and stuff 138 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 3: and how they were acting. And basically, Lucas was flashing 139 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: a whole bunch of money and buying all the girls' drinks, 140 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 3: buying all kinds of people drinks. 141 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: And this is where Lena comes in. While Lucas is 142 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: in the club, apparently buying drinks and flashing cash, he 143 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: opens up Instagram starts chatting with her. She's with a friend, 144 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 1: another dark haired twenty year old. Her name is Ainsley. 145 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: Third and Lucas invite Ainsley and Elina to meet them, 146 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: but by the time the women arrived, fifteen oh four 147 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: is closing. They missed last call, but they're not ready 148 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: to call it at night. Third has the key to 149 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: an apartment nearby, except it's empty, just to couch, nothing else. 150 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: They decide to go to the beach house, where Third's parents, 151 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,840 Speaker 1: his siblings, his nieces and nephews are all staying. 152 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: It's just frustrating because it's like you knew that you 153 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: barely had room to lay your head to sleep. I 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 3: would you invite extra people? You know? You weren't being considerate, 155 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 3: you weren't in thinking. And then you're like, you knew 156 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: there were kids there, why would you bring girls back? 157 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 3: But you didn't care. You were just thinking about yourself 158 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 3: and your greed and having fun. 159 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: Third and Lucas drive back to Treasure Island, Alena and 160 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: her friend following at Toyota Corolla. 161 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: I can't tell you exactly what time it is, but 162 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 3: I remember getting woken up by my brother. He came 163 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 3: in the room that I was in and was like, 164 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: I'm so fucked up. 165 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: Third, Lucas, and the two women go to one of 166 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: the other bedrooms. Elena's on her phone texting, but no 167 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: one thinks anything of it. 168 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: I laid my head down for like not even point 169 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: two seconds. I start hearing a lot of noise, and 170 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: that's when I kind of seen what I seen, which 171 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 3: was a man with a mask standing in front of 172 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 3: the door. 173 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: Elena had been texting with two other people, one who 174 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: called himself Big three E and the other who went 175 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: by Baby Ape. Eleena had been texting with him for 176 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: almost six hours since nine oh three Friday night, but 177 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: the relevant parts, the parts that led to Larry being dead, 178 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: started at one in the morning, when Elena reported that 179 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: she and Angeley were at the club with Third and Lucas. 180 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: Six minutes later, she told Baby Ape and Big three 181 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: E that they were leaving. Baby Ape told her that 182 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: if Third and Lucas got touchy, just played cool. But 183 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: we're quoting here. Don't let them do too much. Elena 184 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: continued texting with them while she followed Third's truck out 185 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: to Treasure Island. At two thirty eight in the morning, 186 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: after she'd walked through the main floor of the beach house, 187 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: she texted to the group, this hoe got kids in here. 188 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: Minutes later, Big three E and two other people in 189 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: the front door. Very shortly after that, Big three E 190 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: shot Larry in the chest. What investigators allege is that Elena, Ainsley, 191 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: Baby Ape, Big three E, and two others were all 192 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: working together as part of the same drug rip crew 193 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: in that scenario. In that theory, Elena and her friend 194 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: would have been the bait. Their job, again allegedly, would 195 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: have been to get close to the targets to Lucas, 196 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 1: and third to get access, gather intelligence. How many people 197 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: are there, do they have guns? That sort of thing. 198 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: And then characters like Big three E and the other 199 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: two who kicked in the door, they would have been 200 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: the muscle. And someone like Baby Ape he would have 201 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: been coordinating the whole thing. To investigators, that's exactly what 202 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: this looked like. A drug ripoff, which is neither complicated 203 00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: nor uncommon. Bad guys stealing from other. Bad guys are 204 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: at least guys who are doing things that aren't legal. 205 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: What are they going to do? Call the cops? 206 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 2: No, what I learned is my nephew and his friend, Lucas, 207 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,959 Speaker 2: we're going to a lot of bars nightclubs in Houston, 208 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: and apparently this crew they see him flashing money. They're 209 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: living this lavish lifestyle and obviously I think it's just 210 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 2: and they look like they have a lot more money 211 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 2: than what they really do. So yeah, they thought, hey, 212 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 2: this is an easy mark and you know, we'll hit 213 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: a lick and get a little cash and maybe a 214 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: little dope. The crew was looking for the right opportunity to. 215 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 1: Strike, investigators believe, and that Baby a text threats suggests 216 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: that Third and Lucas were not the original targets that night, 217 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: Baby Ape and Big three E. We're talking about other victims, 218 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: and Elena and Ainsley were allegedly at other clubs, and 219 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: all of them were sharing their location so they wouldn't 220 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: lose each other again allegedly, but for whatever reasons, those 221 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: other prospects fell apart, and then Elena got hit up 222 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:20,599 Speaker 1: on Instagram by Lucas and Third. This was all happenstance, 223 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: This operation, if you can call it, that went wrong 224 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,160 Speaker 1: from the very beginning. Let's start with the alleged targets. 225 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: Lucas and Third weren't really worth robbing. They just like 226 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: to front. 227 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, basically just setting yourself up. 228 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: Here's Larissa again. 229 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 3: I get you want to impress girls, but you're not 230 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 3: impressing girls. You're basically getting yourself set up every time, 231 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 3: because there's guys out here that literally prey on people 232 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 3: like that, or they send girls who think they're interested 233 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: in you and they're really not. And the whole time, 234 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: y'all don't even have anything, so stuff that could have 235 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 3: been prevented. How you not been flashing dollar bills and 236 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 3: twenty dollars and stuff. 237 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: Second, it was rushed, Elena didn't even have time to 238 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: count how many people were in the house, let alone 239 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: determined if any of them had weapons they didn't, or 240 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: if there was a big protective guy like Lariat's side. 241 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: In fact, one of the last things she texted was 242 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: that she was trying to see who was there, and 243 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: she typed that message immediately after this Hoe got kids 244 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: in here. 245 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: Even in prison, there's a code, you know, you don't 246 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: fuck with kids. Apparently that same code does not apply 247 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 2: to a lot of robbery crews. A lot of them 248 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: get you know, they're younger and younger, and you know 249 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 2: they just don't have the same code of ethics. Obviously, 250 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 2: my brother was murdered, and that's the tragedy. But I've 251 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: also thought, and it's what really pissed me off, is Okay, 252 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: you go into the house and you realize there's kids, 253 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: just fucking leave, go somewhere else, find find somebody else. 254 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: And finally one of them shot and killed Larry, and 255 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: a pair of drug ripoff that they expected would never 256 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: be reported is now a murder case and one that's 257 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: going to get an extraordinary amount of attention from the authorities. 258 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: Brissooria County officials ran the investigation into Larry's murder. It 259 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: happened in their jurisdiction, so of course they took the lead. 260 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: Starting with that first Instagram handle from Lucas, they built 261 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: a case against six people spread across four Texas counties. 262 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: You'll hear more from Lieutenant Mank in a later episode 263 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: about how exactly all those pieces were assembled into a hole. 264 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: As for Gabe, he made his early phone calls, but 265 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: he mostly tried to stay out of the way. He 266 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: had to wait, just like the rest of the family. 267 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 2: It's probably about a month, well over a month later, 268 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: that they were able to get the murder warrs. And 269 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 2: I remember sitting at a restaurant with two other officers 270 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: when I get the phone call that hey, we've got 271 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: good news. We just got the judge to sign off 272 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: on these murder awards. 273 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 1: For all six of the suspects. 274 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: And I remember sitting at the table and I was like, 275 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 2: fuck yeah. 276 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: Big three E from the text Threat. His real name 277 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: is Richard Horne Junior. He's an ex con and a 278 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: tattoo artist who at the time lived in Sageen, which 279 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: is near San Antonio. He was the one who shot Larry, 280 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: the one who actually killed him, but the other five 281 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: were also charged with murder. That's because the state of 282 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: Texas has what's called a joint venture theory of crime. 283 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: If you commit felonies with your friends, like say, armed 284 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: robbery or home invasion, and someone gets killed, you're all 285 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: on the hook. So a magistrates signed order warrants for 286 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: Elena and Ainsley, who allegedly set up third in Lucas. 287 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: There were also warrants for the other two people who 288 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: allegedly kicked in the beach house door and pointed guns 289 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: at children, Guadalupe who was Richard's girlfriend, and Marvin, who 290 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: lived with them and their trailer and Sagein. The last 291 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 1: warrant was for Baby Ape. His name is Kirsten and 292 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: he allegedly was the organizer in the text thread. He 293 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: gave orders like turn the whole house upside down, shoe 294 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: boxes and all, and at the very end, when everything 295 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: had gone so terribly wrong, he typed delete group chat. 296 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: The plan for authorities in early March twenty twenty three 297 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: is to arrest all six of them at once, so 298 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: that they can't be tipping each other off. The problem, though, 299 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: again is that they're not all in the same place. 300 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 2: All six were spread out in different counties, and they said, hey, 301 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 2: Rissori County doesn't have the resources to execute all these 302 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 2: arrest warrants. Can DPS help. 303 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: DPS is the Texas Department of Public Safety, where Gabe 304 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: at the time was a major. 305 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,360 Speaker 2: And I'm Mike Apps a fucking lutely we can. Everybody 306 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: in DPS knew that my brother was murdered, and and 307 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,360 Speaker 2: all that took was, hey, man, we're trying to execute 308 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: these murder warrans. Can we get Oh yeah, bro, like 309 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: tell us when and where, Like, We're on it, whatever 310 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 2: you need. 311 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,719 Speaker 1: Richard Horn and Guadalupe Navarro were presumed to be at 312 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: their trailer in Sagein. 313 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: So we had a team go there, and when the 314 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 2: detectives said, hey, if you want to meet us somewhere 315 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: and give us a set of your handcuffs, we'll put 316 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: those handcuffs on Richard Horn. 317 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 1: In case that's not clear, a detective was offering to 318 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: click Gabe's personal state issued handcuffs around the wrists of 319 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: the man who killed Gabe's brother. 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 2: And I was like, that'd be fucking awesome. So I'm 321 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 2: going to meet with these investigators. 322 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: Then those investigators call back. They've been diverted. Now they're 323 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: heaving toward Houston. 324 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 2: But there's more and oh, by the way, they just 325 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 2: arrested Guadalup bin Ovarro and I'm like awesome. They're like, hey, 326 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 2: but but Richard Horn is actually at a tattoo parlor 327 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: in New Bronfels and I was like, I was like, okay, great. 328 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 2: They said, so you can probably contact one of your 329 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: dps CID agents and coordinate with them about getting them 330 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: your handcuffs because they're about to go to this tattoo part. 331 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: So initially I was driving towards the Dean and then 332 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 2: now I'm driving toward New Bronfels and the whole tires 333 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 2: a lot of emotions. I'm like, man, this is you know, 334 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 2: this is awesome. And the crazy thing is I'm in 335 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,240 Speaker 2: my personal vehicle. I was just going to go drop 336 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 2: off some handcuffs. My wife Melinda's with me, and we're driving. 337 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 2: I'm like I'm like, hey, okay, we'll just go find 338 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: someplace to meet these agents and they're going to put 339 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: my handcuffs on Richard Horn. And so we're going to 340 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: New Brounfels and I get a call from one of 341 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 2: the agents. Is that said, sir, we just arrested Richard Horn. 342 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 2: And in my mind I'm thinking, I'm like, okay, hey, 343 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: you know what, that's awesome. I don't need to they said, 344 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: he said, but we're waiting for you. And I'm like, 345 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 2: well for what you got to guys already have them custody. 346 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, don't you want to put your 347 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 2: handcuffs on it? And so I was like, now, I'm 348 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 2: about thirty minutes away. You know it's going to be 349 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: They're like, we'll wait. They give me the address and 350 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 2: at tattoo parlor, we drive down and he's already in 351 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 2: the vehicle. We pull up and I tell Mill and 352 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: them's like, hey, just wait here, and uh so I 353 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 2: get out and they're like, hey, sir, he's here. And 354 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: they pull him out of the vehicle and he's handcuffed, 355 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: and so I turned him around and look him in 356 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 2: the eye. 357 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: Let's pause here just long enough to sharpen the focus. 358 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 1: See the moment from Gabe's perspective. His brother Larry did 359 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: some things, maybe a lot of things that were not legal, 360 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: and he paid for it and went to prison, missed 361 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: the best years of his kids' lives, the best years 362 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: of his life. But he was trying, Lord knows he 363 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: was trying. That's really what he was telling Gabe a 364 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving when they were drinking whiskey on the patio. When 365 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: Larry said he shot a guy years before, he wasn't bragging. 366 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: He was confessing when he told Gabe he was back 367 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: in the game. That wasn't swagger. It was desperation. Larry 368 00:21:56,240 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: wanted to do better, had done better, and now Abe 369 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: face to face with the guy who shot him. 370 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: I look him in the eye and I say, you're 371 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 2: the one that killed my brother. He said, I ain't 372 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: fucking killed nobody. I'm like, no, you killed my brother. 373 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 2: It's like, you have no idea who you fucked with, 374 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: and you're gonna fucking pay for what you did. And 375 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: I turned him around and put my handcuffs on him, 376 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 2: took to the other agent's handcuffs off, gave it to him, 377 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 2: and I put him in the vehicle. And probably the 378 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 2: hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. Why, 379 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 2: there's a lot of things going on in my mind 380 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: at that time, and uh, you know, their first second, 381 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: I was like, man, I could just easily put a 382 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 2: bullet in this guy's head, you know, instant retribution. For 383 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,480 Speaker 2: a second, I just wanted to put it pulling his head. 384 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 2: But I'm like, then what. 385 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: Gabe obviously walked away, he went back to his truck, 386 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: back to Melinda tried to calm him down. 387 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 2: And I'm shaying and I was just just wound up 388 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 2: and I'm just shaking and for a while, and then 389 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 2: I started getting text messages that the other suspects are 390 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 2: being arrested. Hey, we just arrested you know, Marvin, Hey, 391 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 2: we just arrested you know, Alena, Hey, we just arrested. 392 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: So just one by one. 393 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: Gave has created a family text threat. 394 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,120 Speaker 2: I'm letting him know, just kind of keep them updated. Here, 395 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: here's what's going on. We just arrested. And they turned 396 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 2: it into a drinking game. And so every time I said, hey, 397 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:49,199 Speaker 2: we just arrested one, and everybody's taking a shot wherever 398 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 2: they were. 399 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: That's actually kind of a nice tribute. Larry whatever appreciated it. 400 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: Why my dad chose the life he chose over my 401 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 3: uncle Gabe's life. I don't know. You know, those are 402 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,439 Speaker 3: questions that he's not here to answer for me. 403 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: This is Larissa, because like I said, he would. 404 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 3: Never really share those things. It was always making up 405 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 3: for lost times and just keeping us on the right path. 406 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 3: It's been a struggle. So I'm been in a very 407 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 3: dark place. I don't talk to nobody because I don't 408 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 3: feel like I can talk to anybody because the only 409 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 3: person I talked to about anything was my dad. No 410 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 3: matter what you tell my dad, he always found positive 411 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 3: in everything. There was always a positive solution. It could 412 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 3: be the dumbest thing, he was going to turn it 413 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 3: around into something so positive. 414 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,719 Speaker 1: It's been two years since Larry was killed. When Larissa 415 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 1: is telling me these things, Richard Horn, the shooter, he's 416 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: in prison. He could be guilty to murder. In January 417 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, in exchange for a forty year sentence, 418 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: Guadalupe Navarro was offered thirty five years. She actually provided 419 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: a fairly helpful statement that was worth a few years 420 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: offer sentence, but she declined. She pleaded guilty to murder, 421 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: but took her chances on sentencing with a jury. She 422 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: got seventy five years. As for the other four defendants, Ainsley, Elena, Marvin, 423 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: and Kirsten, as of June twenty twenty five, they had 424 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: all pleaded not guilty, but none of them could make bail. 425 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,680 Speaker 1: They were still being held in the Brasouria County Jail, 426 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: the same jail where Larry spent so much time as 427 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: a younger man, the same jail where his own son 428 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: third would be locked up an occasion, Larry senior dad, 429 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: maybe he would have seen that as one of those 430 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: generational curses. He'd been in that jail too, so that's 431 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,639 Speaker 1: one way of looking at it. But if there was 432 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: a curse, if you believe in such things, maybe Larry 433 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: could have broken it. Maybe he was almost there. Within 434 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: the Ortiz family, there was some dissent when it came 435 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: to prosecutors offering Richard Horne a plea deal. Some relatives 436 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: understandably wanted maximum vengeance. They wanted the man who killed Larry, 437 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,719 Speaker 1: their son, husband, uncle, brother Larry to stand trial, to 438 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: be judged by a jury of his peers, who they 439 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: believed would surely find him guilty and put him away 440 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: for the rest of his natural life. 441 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: I kind of explained to him, like, hey, look, no 442 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 2: amount of time is going to bring Larry back. And 443 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 2: do we really want to go to a jury trial? 444 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 2: I said, juries are very quirky. You just never know 445 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: what you're going to get. And obviously there was a 446 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: lot of people in that house that day, to include 447 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: family members that I have criminal histories, and a good 448 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 2: defense attorney can spin this and make it look like, hey, 449 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 2: there was a lot of you know, crooks in this family, 450 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 2: and you know this guy was a gang member and 451 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 2: he was a dope dealer, and you know it's just 452 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: a dope deal gone bad type situation, and you know, 453 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 2: you just never know how they can spin it. And 454 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 2: I told the family and I said, do you really 455 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: want to put the entire family through all of this 456 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 2: and not really knowing what the end result was going 457 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: to be? 458 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,159 Speaker 1: And that is the final irony, the final tragedy. For years, 459 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: people who loved Larry were afraid he would die young 460 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: and probably violently. But in the end, Larry wasn't killed 461 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: because of his criminal lifestyle, because he was doing something illegal, 462 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: or even because he got into a fight with some nodhead. 463 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: Larry died protecting his family, which in his own way, 464 00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: was the only thing that ever really mattered. The Brothers 465 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: Orties is a production from Campside Media in partnership with 466 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 467 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. The Brothers Orties was written, reported, 468 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: and hosted by me Sean Flynn. Lane Rose is our 469 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: senior producer. Story editing by Audrey Quinn, sound design, mix 470 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: and engineering by Garrett Tiedeman, original music by Garrett Tiedeman. 471 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Savannah Wright. iHeart Podcasts executive producers are 472 00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: Lindsay Hoffman and Jennifer Bassett. Campside Media's executive producer Josh 473 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: gen Vanessa Grigoriatis, Adam hoff and Matt Cher. A special 474 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: thanks to our operations team Doug Lawin, Ashley Warren and 475 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: Sabina Mara. If you enjoyed The Brothers Ortiz, please rate 476 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 1: and review the show wherever you get your podcasts, and 477 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: thanks for listening.