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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, and today we

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Speaker 1: are talking about women's role in peace keeping, peace making

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Speaker 1: in the context of global security, conflict resolution, ending, wars

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Speaker 1: um and apparently we're good at that. Yeah, we're really

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Speaker 1: great at it. And by we I mean women, not

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Speaker 1: necessarily Caroline and I yeah, I've never made or kept peace.

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Speaker 1: You're just on the global scale. You just make fights,

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Speaker 1: global fight, fist fight. Hey, um. Yeah. We wanted to

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Speaker 1: to talk about women in peace today, partially because of

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Speaker 1: some comments that Hillary Clinton made. Hillary Clinton, also known

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Speaker 1: as Not also known as but her providential title as

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Speaker 1: a Secretary of State of the United States of America.

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Speaker 1: She was at a women's breakfast in Munich in early February,

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Speaker 1: and she was commenting on the need to get more

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Speaker 1: women involved in the international peacekeeping process because she points

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Speaker 1: out that women and children are the primary victims of

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Speaker 1: twenty one century conflict and says, quote, in the last

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Speaker 1: two decades, dozens of conflicts have persisted because peace efforts

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Speaker 1: were unsuccessful. Talks broke down, agreements were broken, Parties found

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Speaker 1: it easier to fight than to negotiate, and far too

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Speaker 1: often in these failed efforts, women were marginalized, making up

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Speaker 1: by one estimate, just eight percent of all peace negotiators, right,

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Speaker 1: which is it is a very tiny percent, and she

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Speaker 1: is she speaks the truth. But there are three very

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Speaker 1: important women that we should talk about who have been

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Speaker 1: involved in the peace process, and those are the winners

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Speaker 1: of the Nobel Peace Prize which was awarded in October,

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Speaker 1: and they went to Liberian President Ellen Johnson sir Leaf,

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Speaker 1: who is a Harvard educated economist and the first woman

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Speaker 1: to be elected president in modern Africa, peace activist Lema Goobowie,

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Speaker 1: also of Liberia, and a pro democracy campaigner from Yemen,

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Speaker 1: Tawakl Carmen. And this was seen as UM a really

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Speaker 1: significant acknowledgement of UM women's role in peacemaking and also

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Speaker 1: sort of a call to get more more women actively

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Speaker 1: involved in the formal processes, because, as we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: in the podcast, it isn't that women have been completely inactive,

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Speaker 1: it's just that we've had to work outside of UM.

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Speaker 1: The formal negotiating processes through grassroots organizations, protesting, organizing other

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Speaker 1: women in the community in order to get attention and

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Speaker 1: uh and work in that way a So, the the

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Speaker 1: United Nations is also going to be a pretty strong

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Speaker 1: theme in today's episode because it's getting more women to

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Speaker 1: the peace talks tables. Um is one of their primary

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Speaker 1: focuses right now. And this goes back to the year

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Speaker 1: two thousand when former UN Secretary General Kofee and Non

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Speaker 1: said that for generations, women had served as peace educators,

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Speaker 1: both in their families and in their societies, and they

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Speaker 1: proved instrumental in building bridges rather than walls. And I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you, Caroline, but that quote right there

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Speaker 1: really starts to hint at the undercurrents of why women

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Speaker 1: are so desired at the peace table, the theory behind

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Speaker 1: what women bring, our unique skill sets that we bring

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Speaker 1: with us. We do have unique skill sets, and as

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Speaker 1: as Gabowie said after the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded,

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Speaker 1: she said, it's finally a recognition that we can't ignore

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Speaker 1: the other half of the world's population and we cannot

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Speaker 1: ignore their unique skills. And so, yeah, what what are

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Speaker 1: our unique skills? As women um. According to retired Lieutenant

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Speaker 1: General or at A Dato of the Israeli Defense Forces UH,

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Speaker 1: she says that we have soft skills. She spoke with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other female peacemakers at a meeting at

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Speaker 1: Harvard University back in January, and she said that we

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Speaker 1: have skills like the ability to see the whole picture,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time to identify and give our

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Speaker 1: attention to the details, to contain situations and deal with them,

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Speaker 1: and to balance priorities. Another woman who was at the

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Speaker 1: meeting with Samira Hammony, director of the Afghan Women's Network,

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Speaker 1: who said that women are likely to show commitment to

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Speaker 1: the process in Rebecca Joshua Akwaisi, founder of the Sudanese

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Speaker 1: Women Empowerment for Peace uh SO that women recognize the

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Speaker 1: importance of building up civil society and individual rights to

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Speaker 1: create long lasting peace. And the idea behind that is

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Speaker 1: that women are particularly invested in preventing and stopping conflict

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Speaker 1: because we are the ones who deal with the impact

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Speaker 1: the communal impact UM. I can't remember where the quotes from,

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Speaker 1: but it's a common brunt that women have to bear

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Speaker 1: on on the home front, no matter where they are

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Speaker 1: or what side of a conflict UM their their respective

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Speaker 1: UH nations might be part of. But another reason too

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Speaker 1: why women need to be brought into the peacemaking effort

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Speaker 1: is that there is such a legacy of failure at

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Speaker 1: this point from how the traditional peace negotiations usually work.

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Speaker 1: And this is coming from the U. S State Department UM.

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Speaker 1: For instance, nearly half of the agreements into conflicts in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties failed within five years of signing it

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Speaker 1: five years, making it pretty incredible that you know that

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Speaker 1: the UM civil war resolution in the United States even

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Speaker 1: is held on for so long. UM. Also, according to

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Speaker 1: the World Bank speaking of civil wars, of civil wars

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Speaker 1: in the twenty first century occurred in countries that already

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Speaker 1: had a civil war in the previous thirty years, And

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Speaker 1: so they think that the pitiful success rate might also

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Speaker 1: have something to do with that lack of a female

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Speaker 1: element that might theoretically look beyond just getting that handshake,

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Speaker 1: getting the signature on the peace treaty to actually building

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Speaker 1: those community bridges and rebuilding those nations exactly. And speaking

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Speaker 1: of rebuilding, this is also UM. This was cited on

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Speaker 1: the State Department website. According to research connected by the

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Speaker 1: International Crisis Group. In Sudan, Congo and Uganda, women who

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Speaker 1: participate in peace talks often raised such issues as human rights, security, justice, employment, education,

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Speaker 1: and healthcare, all of these being issues that are fundamental

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Speaker 1: to reconciliation and rebuilding, which basically serves as the foundation

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Speaker 1: for lasting peace, not just bringing down or bringing the

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Speaker 1: conflict to a close, but actually supporting people in their

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Speaker 1: efforts to rebuild. And the fact of the matter is

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Speaker 1: women have also proven themselves as capable peacemakers and community

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Speaker 1: members and menders um in a in a global context

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Speaker 1: and just some examples in Rwanda, for instance, in the

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Speaker 1: two thousand three parliamentary elections, women won forty nine percent

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Speaker 1: of the seats and in two thousand eight it became

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Speaker 1: the first nation with women making up more than half

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Speaker 1: of parliament with fifty six point to five per cent

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Speaker 1: of the seats. And because of that, they have made

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Speaker 1: significant contributions to post genocide recovery and reconciliation UM And

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Speaker 1: on the other side of the world, in El Salvador,

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Speaker 1: women's participation in negotiations have had a significant impact on

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Speaker 1: the inclusion of women and non combatants in reintegration benefits programs.

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Speaker 1: And that's a really good example of how UM A

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Speaker 1: lot of times when you when you look at these

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Speaker 1: case studies of how or the different issues that women

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Speaker 1: have brought to the table, it is more inclusive of

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Speaker 1: minority members or overlooked members of the community right and

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Speaker 1: women are typically according to a lot of these studies

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Speaker 1: that we found more more willing to cross lines, whether

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Speaker 1: those are ethnic lines, party lines. And going back to Rwanda,

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Speaker 1: which you mentioned UM, after the genocide, UH, several of

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Speaker 1: the wives of the men who were involved in in

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Speaker 1: this atrocity, they came from different ethnic groups and political

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Speaker 1: parties and ended up working together to create programs to

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Speaker 1: assist survivors with housing, healthcare, education and employment. So again

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Speaker 1: they're coming together from these opposite corners to help support citizens. UM.

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Speaker 1: And just for another example, going over to North Ireland,

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Speaker 1: in with the Good Friday Agreement, women negotiators secured commitments

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Speaker 1: to involve young people and victims of violence and reconciliation

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Speaker 1: and to accelerate the release and reintegration of political prisoners,

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Speaker 1: and also to ensure integrated education. Another thing that comes

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Speaker 1: up a lot of times, integrated education systems and housing

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Speaker 1: into those peace accords. Yeah, and UH, women were also

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Speaker 1: seen as honest facilitators. I don't know what the perception

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Speaker 1: is of men, if they're dishonest in particular, but according

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Speaker 1: to a uniform report that reference interviews with peace negotiators,

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Speaker 1: they revealed that women's abilities to communicate, empathize, which we've

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Speaker 1: talked about several times on the podcast Build Trust and

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Speaker 1: Engage all sides, fostered negotiation and compromise, and just their

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Speaker 1: presence just being there seemed to calm men down. Apparently,

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Speaker 1: men were less likely to be aggressive around the negotiating

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Speaker 1: table if women were present. M m m mmm. So

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Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot about a lot about what

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Speaker 1: women bring to the table and why it is so

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Speaker 1: important to have them there. Um, Closing the gender gap

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Speaker 1: alone in in negotiations like this can often lead to

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Speaker 1: a more stable society and more productive peace talks. And

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Speaker 1: in recognition of this, and in a way to encourage

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Speaker 1: more women to be involved, UH, the U n Security

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Speaker 1: Council adopted Resolution thirty five in the year two thousand

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Speaker 1: and it urged member nations to ensure increased representation of

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Speaker 1: women at all decision making levels and in the mechanisms

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Speaker 1: for the prevention, management and resolution of conflict, and it

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Speaker 1: basically called for the inclusion of women in the entire process.

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Speaker 1: And we mentioned that, you know, Uh Clinton had this

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Speaker 1: this breakfast in Munich for women. This Hillary Clinton eate

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Speaker 1: breakfast breakfast in Munich one time, and she said, uh

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Speaker 1: that with the adoption of the resolution, we tried to

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Speaker 1: make a very clear statement that women are still largely

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Speaker 1: shut out of the negotiations that seek to end conflicts. Well.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's also this this huge issue of

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Speaker 1: the nature of twenty one century conflict where a lot

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Speaker 1: of times, UM, the major damage is not done on

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Speaker 1: the front lines anymore, but felt more in those communities. UM.

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Speaker 1: And because men and women experience conflict differently, they understand

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Speaker 1: the peace process differently. And only by bringing everyone to

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Speaker 1: the table. We're not saying that the men should be

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Speaker 1: excluded by any means, but by including more women, the

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Speaker 1: u N thinks that, UM, they can ensure greater global security. UM.

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Speaker 1: So what has happened since they voted unanimously for resolution,

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Speaker 1: well mixed results, UM. Just to understand their logic for it, UM,

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Speaker 1: the u N felt that women are critical for empowering

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Speaker 1: women in the host community, for the screening of female

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Speaker 1: ex combatants, assisting female ex combatants during the process of

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Speaker 1: demobilizing and reintegration into civilian life, especially for preventing UM

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Speaker 1: sexual violence and abuse UM, and also interviewing survivors of

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Speaker 1: gender based violence, mentoring female cadets at police and military academies.

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Speaker 1: And this is a really key one that we've seen

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Speaker 1: with how the US military has used female soldiers in

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Speaker 1: Iraq and Afghanistan to engage with the community UM. This

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Speaker 1: issue of interacting with women in societies where women are

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Speaker 1: prohibited from speaking two men and at that point, like

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Speaker 1: having having female police officers and female soldiers in those

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Speaker 1: UM conflict written areas is so crucial for engaging the

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Speaker 1: community UM. And they also say that the presence of

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Speaker 1: women peacekeepers can help by doing all of that reduced

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Speaker 1: conflict and confrontation, improve access in support for local women,

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Speaker 1: empower women in the community, which as we've mentioned on

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Speaker 1: the podcast many times, is linked to UM greater community security,

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Speaker 1: better education, better outcomes for the children. According to UNIFORM,

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Speaker 1: they UNIFORM very important organization. They took a look at

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Speaker 1: women's roles UH since two thousand. The typical roles that

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Speaker 1: women have had in peace negotiations, and really the roles

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Speaker 1: have mostly been from the sidelines traditionally going way back,

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Speaker 1: not just not just since the resolution. But um, it

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Speaker 1: turns out that the u N has never officially appointed

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Speaker 1: a woman as chief mediator of a peace process, which

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Speaker 1: that's just silly. Uh. And few women have actually been

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Speaker 1: signatories to the text of accords, so we haven't been

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Speaker 1: putting our John Hancock on them either. And Uh. While

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Speaker 1: women have served as witnesses to the process, their role

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Speaker 1: is largely representational. We end up we women, not me. Again, UM,

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Speaker 1: we usually end up holding parallel peace conferences uh to

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Speaker 1: to the major one, just so that people are aware

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Speaker 1: of our opinions and what we find to be important.

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Speaker 1: So it also kind of sir to highlight the fact

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Speaker 1: that we are often excluded. So we end up holding

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Speaker 1: these parallel uh, either grassroots type of protests or just

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Speaker 1: meetings in general. But Caroline, one reason why there might

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Speaker 1: be still a limited role for women in peacekeeping is

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Speaker 1: this key statistic that ten years after resolution went into effect,

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Speaker 1: only sixteen countries had developed national action plans for implementation,

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Speaker 1: which was part of that You and UM Security resolution

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Speaker 1: asking all of its member nations to sit down and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: how can we get more women involved? And since a

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Speaker 1: lot of those nations haven't even done that. For instance, uh,

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Speaker 1: the U S National Plan Action Plan on Women, Peace

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Speaker 1: and Security was only drafted last year. UM. I think

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Speaker 1: that's one of one of the reasons why we're still

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Speaker 1: seeing that big gender gap. But one question that we

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Speaker 1: haven't addressed yet is whether or not gender the you know,

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Speaker 1: the construct of gender really makes all of a difference

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Speaker 1: because all of this is based on the notion of

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Speaker 1: gender mainstreaming UM, which is a process of assessing implications

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Speaker 1: for women and men of any planned action, including legislation, policies, programs,

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Speaker 1: in all areas and at all levels. Essentially, it's it's providing,

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Speaker 1: you know, trying to equalize those numbers of women and men.

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Speaker 1: But is gender the issue or are we only perpetuating

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Speaker 1: stereotypes of the female you know, the construct that we're

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Speaker 1: just that we're nurturing and we're bringing all these soft

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Speaker 1: skills to the table and unnecessarily masculinizing the people who

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Speaker 1: are already there. Yeah, I mean that that's a very

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Speaker 1: good point, um, But it seems to be that well,

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Speaker 1: I can't answer that but it seems to be that

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Speaker 1: women are bringing just a different perspective and a different

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Speaker 1: set of skills, whether they are softer or hard skills,

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Speaker 1: to the table. And we seem to be bringing different demands.

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Speaker 1: And according to uniform UM and about sevent of the

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Speaker 1: demands that they looked at from from women negotiators, women

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Speaker 1: have highlighted sexual violence as a special concern. So we're

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Speaker 1: bringing a perspective that maybe male negotiators aren't putting as

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Speaker 1: much weight on. But one argument against this emphasis on

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Speaker 1: gender is the idea that it's unnecessarily feminizing peacekeeping UM.

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Speaker 1: And it's this thing that because women's innate peacefulness I

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Speaker 1: say innate in quotes has long been lodged as an

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Speaker 1: argument against allowing women's participation in the military, it's now

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Speaker 1: being used as a force for their inclusion. So it

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Speaker 1: seems like these kind of uh there, it's the opposite

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Speaker 1: sides of the same coin. But like you said, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the kind of issues that that women are bringing to

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Speaker 1: the table UM are are very important. Those the huge

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Speaker 1: issues is actually of post conflict sexual violence, right, which

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Speaker 1: is often used as UM a way to oppress an

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Speaker 1: entire group of people. UM it's it's definitely a tactic

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Speaker 1: of warfare. It's not the issue of gender but empowerment

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Speaker 1: that makes the difference. And this is coming from a

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Speaker 1: study of gender and conflict resolution within a workplace context,

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Speaker 1: but I feel like it applies pretty nicely to peacekeeping

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Speaker 1: as well. And this is coming from Carol Watson at

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Speaker 1: Rutgers University's Center for Negotiation and Conflict Resolution, and they

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Speaker 1: found that in in conflict resolution scenarios, power was a

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Speaker 1: better predictor of feelings, behavior, and outcomes of managerial negotiations

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Speaker 1: than gender, and regardless of gender, empowerment correlated to greater

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Speaker 1: expectations of cooperation from opponents, feeling more powerful in control,

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Speaker 1: and more satisfied with outcomes. So it's kind of the

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Speaker 1: idea that if you, if we open up these doors

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Speaker 1: for women to sit down at that table instead of

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Speaker 1: having to go through these external routes um just to

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Speaker 1: get someone's attention, uh and and bring equal power to

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Speaker 1: the negotiating tables, then perhaps we could break beyond those

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Speaker 1: gender barriers and really come up with something lasting and

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Speaker 1: long term. I mean, again, this is all theory, but

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Speaker 1: I thought that that was, uh an interesting component to

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Speaker 1: add to this discussion. And I also feel like one

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Speaker 1: one thing that's important to bring up from the US

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Speaker 1: National Action Plan on Women, Peace and Security, which is

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Speaker 1: their outline for their goals for gender mainstreaming with UM

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Speaker 1: conflict resolution, disaster relief, humanitarian efforts, and one of those

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Speaker 1: is mobilizing men as allies. And I think that's something

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Speaker 1: else that's often left out of this conversation of the

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Speaker 1: you know, the need to bring women to the peace table,

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Speaker 1: but also UM bringing in the men and remembering, uh,

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Speaker 1: that half of the conversation as well, because this isn't

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Speaker 1: about gender exclusion, you know, this is more about an inclusion,

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Speaker 1: and I think that it's important to remember that that

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Speaker 1: those guys are also the allies too. So we've definitely

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Speaker 1: touched on how more than touched on it, but we've

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Speaker 1: we've we've shown you how women are not as involved

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Speaker 1: in the peace process as they should or could be,

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Speaker 1: and the gender blind peace accords are still the norm.

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Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier about how women are more likely to

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Speaker 1: bring up sexual abuse as a tactic of warfare and

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Speaker 1: how that needs to be prevented, and UM Uniform took

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Speaker 1: a look at three peace agreements and that roughly corresponded

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Speaker 1: to peace processes since and only eighteen mentioned sexual gender

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Speaker 1: based violence. UM. So maybe if we do bring more

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Speaker 1: women to the table, bringing their perspective, these peace agreements

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Speaker 1: will not just focus on women as an accessory, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and also to that point, UM, with that

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Speaker 1: uniform study that you mentioned, out of the peace agreements,

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Speaker 1: only twenty five even referenced UM general political and legal

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Speaker 1: equality on the basis of gender or non discrimination. So

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Speaker 1: it's beyond just sexual violence. I mean, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times just issues of human rights are overlooked. And UM,

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Speaker 1: since women are often marginalized, more marginalized than men, that

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Speaker 1: is a unique perspective that needs to be brought to

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Speaker 1: these tables. UM. So we don't have all of the

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Speaker 1: answers for it, but I think that it's pretty clear

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Speaker 1: that while UM women are not necessarily superior peacemakers, we

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Speaker 1: are necessary UM actors in that process, right because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, we talked about gender equality and gender mainstreaming

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Speaker 1: to get people men and women on an equal footing.

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Speaker 1: I just think that women issues are not just women's issues,

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Speaker 1: they're human rights issues. And women who are raped or

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Speaker 1: attacked during wartime, that's a major issue for the society

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Speaker 1: in which the conflict is happening, and so that needs

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Speaker 1: to be a major focus of whatever peace agreements going

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Speaker 1: on as well. It can't just be yeah, I mean, yes,

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Speaker 1: we want to in the conflict, but it can't just

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Speaker 1: be about like, okay, it's done, now, let's move on.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's happy now right now, there has to be some

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Speaker 1: attention paid to rebuilding these people and rebuilding these towns,

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Speaker 1: right and that also goes for disaster relief efforts, humanitarian efforts,

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Speaker 1: basically gender mainstreaming across the board. Whenever it comes to

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Speaker 1: community rebuilding, it's something important that needs to happen and hopefully,

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Speaker 1: um we will see more, more action, more empirical data

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Speaker 1: to prove that the people are really taking you and

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Speaker 1: security resolution more seriously. I think it's pretty read in

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Speaker 1: the meantime that like Hillary Clinton is speaking out on

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Speaker 1: behalf of getting more women to the table. So that's

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Speaker 1: all we have to say about women in peace. Anyone

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Speaker 1: out there who has studied this or has been active

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Speaker 1: in peace processes of any sort, uh, yeah, at the

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Speaker 1: at the top or maybe just a grassroots Hillary Clinton.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're listening to school too, you can

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Speaker 1: email us Moms stuff at Discovery dot com, and we

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Speaker 1: have a couple of completely unrelated letters. Do read to

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Speaker 1: you all right. This is an email from Ryan about

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Speaker 1: our wrestling podcast, and he said, this is incredible. I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad, I'm so glad to emailed us. He said

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Speaker 1: that my wife's aunt, Johnny may Young, started pro wrestling

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Speaker 1: in She's gone by multiple titles, including Matriarch of the mat.

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Speaker 1: She appeared in a raw event as Latest two thousand two.

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Speaker 1: But one of our favorite bits about her is her

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Speaker 1: has it due to copyright, but it was hilarious. I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen it yet, but a documentary was made about

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Speaker 1: her and her wrestling partner called Lipstick and Dynamite and

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Speaker 1: he uh, he references Wikipedia if you want to read

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Speaker 1: more about Jenny may Young and I've got one here

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Speaker 1: in response to our episode on faking orgasms from a

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Speaker 1: fabio and he writes, don't do it. You are basically

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Speaker 1: rewarding for bad performance and teaching the man that what

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Speaker 1: he just did was correct. The result is that he

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Speaker 1: will continue doing the wrong thing. Don't worry about the ego.

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Speaker 1: It's a myth that guys are fragile about prowess. The

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Speaker 1: attitude of Harry in the movie is not accurate at all.

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Speaker 1: That's when Harry meant Sally. We know very well that

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Speaker 1: when that we get faked, because most of the time

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Speaker 1: we can tell, we don't say anything. So it's not

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Speaker 1: to make a fuss and bruise your ego. For some reason,

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Speaker 1: many women think that they're awesome at faking it, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it just makes you look shallow when praise

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Speaker 1: is a lie, it's just bitter. Not faking will also

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Speaker 1: make all those times when it does happen all the

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Speaker 1: more special, and he might just stick around and talk

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Speaker 1: a little he might, and he might just stick around

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Speaker 1: and talk a little longer during the afterglow. We also

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Speaker 1: know that some women simply can't or don't consider it

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Speaker 1: a necessity, and that school the only time you can

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Speaker 1: justify faking is if you want to get it over

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Speaker 1: with and plan to never have sex with that person again.

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Speaker 1: So there's a guy's perspective on faking orgasms. That's what

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Speaker 1: I mean faking, uh And if you have anything again

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Speaker 1: to send our way, mom, stuff at Discovery Dot com

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Speaker 1: is the address. You can also head over to Facebook

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Speaker 1: and leave us a comment there, or tweet us at

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Speaker 1: mom stuff Podcast, and you can read all of the

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