1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Murder in Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Let me 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: get my head around this. You drop out of journalism 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, moved to Miami and end up working 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,959 Speaker 1: for a detective agency that's a front for a major 5 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: drug operation with CIA connections. 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, how stupid? Can you be? Right? 7 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: Phil? I've known you for a long time and your 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: many things, but you're not stupid. You're going to have 9 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: to tell me how you got caught up in all 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: of this. 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something I've been trying to figure out myself 12 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 3: for years now. 13 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: And the guy you replaced was murdered. 14 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. 15 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 3: It started when I took place of the detective the 16 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 3: guy had been murdered, but that was just for starters. 17 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 3: It got crazier as time went on. And if I 18 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: do say so, it's a pretty good story. 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: I'm Lauren breg Pacheco and this is Murder in Miami. 20 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 1: Journalist Phil Stanford and I first cross paths during my 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 1: first podcast, Happy Face, about Keith Hunter Jesperson, the serial 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: killer and rapist in the nineteen nineties. Stanford was the 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: newspaper reporter at the Oregonian who had received an anonymous 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: letter from Jessperson basically bragging about his kills creepily signed 25 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: with a smiley face. As a result, Stanford coined the 26 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: happy face killer moniker and it stuck. 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, I certainly don't take credit for the happy face nickname. 28 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: That was him. 29 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 3: That was Keith Jefferson. He drew all those little happy faces. 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 3: That's who he wanted to be. 31 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: Stanford ended up connecting with the hulking, nearly six foot 32 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 1: eight killer in person for a pretty interesting reason. 33 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: He was arrested. 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 3: He wanted credit for a murder that two people were 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 3: already serving time for, and I had written about those 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 3: two people trying to point out that the case against 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 3: them was completely full of it. Jesperson was coming at 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 3: it from a slightly different angle. He wanted credit. 39 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: Stanford's subsequent reporting helped prove Jessperson had indeed killed twenty 40 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: three year old Tanya Bennett and contributed to getting the 41 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: two people already serving time for her murder out of prison. 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: But by the time I'd tracked Stamford down, he was 43 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: pretty sick of talking about Keith Hunter. Jesperson. 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 3: Well, he was certainly no Hannibal Lecter. He's just a 45 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 3: big dummy driven by compulsions he didn't understand himself. 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: When we connected. Stamford, who was at one point the 47 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: most successful columnist in Oregon, was so tired of talking 48 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: to people in general. He'd pretty much dropped off the grid, 49 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: living as far west as he could without falling into 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: the ocean. 51 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was one of the more remote places in 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 3: the United States. I think Gold Beach, Oregon, which is 53 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: down at the southern tip of Oregon on the coast 54 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 3: just above the California line. 55 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: After some politely persistent stalking, Stanford begrudgingly agreed to be interviewed. 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 2: I'm glad you finally found me. Yes. 57 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: Well, to get to you, I had to go through 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: your publishers, who were quite pragmatic in letting me know 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: that they could reach out to you. But the likelihood 60 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: was that you would want nothing to do with me. 61 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: It's oh. 62 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: The Bill Stamford, I'd grow to know was extremely private 63 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: and more than a bit guarded and senecal, understandable given 64 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: the story that motivated his departure from his career as 65 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: a reporter. Due to the politics that surrounded the nineteen 66 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: eighty nine murder of Michael Frankie. 67 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 3: Ahead of the Oregon's Correction department had discovered a rat's 68 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 3: nest of corruption in his department and was going to 69 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: expose it clean house, and he was murdered. He was 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 3: assassinated out in front of the building where he worked 71 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 3: in Salem, Oregon, stabbed to death. That was the night 72 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 3: before he was supposed to address a Senate committee on 73 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 3: the subject. 74 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: Using his newspaper column as a platform, Stanford started relentlessly 75 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: questioning Frankie's highly suspicious murder and the guilt of the 76 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: low level drug dealer it was penned on, all while 77 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: calling out the corruption that surrounded the case. 78 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: And it was denied, absolutely denied, that his murder could 79 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 3: have had anything to do with corruption, because of course 80 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: there was no corruption in Oregon, and I was writing 81 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 3: a column for The Oregonian at the time. Smelled a rat, 82 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: and I kept raising questions. 83 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:00,799 Speaker 1: Doing so would ultimately cost Stanford his job take its toll. 84 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: When we first met in person, here's how I described Phil. 85 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Phil's a fiercely loyal guy with a choppy head of 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: silver hair that matches the stubble of his beard, and 87 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 1: soft brown eyes that seem to have seen a bit 88 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: too much of the corruption. He writes about thirty years 89 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: after Michael Frankie's death, the Murder in Oregon podcast would 90 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: again raise questions about Oregon's Department of Corrections and Corruption. 91 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 4: A new hit podcast called Murder in Oregon is uncovering 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 4: new information about the stabbing death of forty two year 93 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 4: old Michael Frankie. 94 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: In the process, Phil and I would become pretty good friends, 95 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: speaking regularly and crossing paths in person whenever possible. That's 96 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: how I became familiar with his time spent working as 97 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: a private investigator in Miami. 98 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 3: It's a story that just gets crazier and crazier as 99 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 3: we go along. 100 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:58,559 Speaker 1: And it's one filled with drugs, deception, conspiracies, and more 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: than one daly questionable killing. Set in the time and 102 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: place that was equally extreme Miami in the early nineteen eighties. 103 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: Pastels and palms, dancers, and a hint of danger. Together 104 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: they can pride the image of Miami, a city some 105 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: have described as America's Casablanca. By the nineteen seventies, parts 106 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: of Miami, especially Miami Beach, had fallen from the glory 107 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: of its nineteen thirties Art Deco heyday. The glamour that 108 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: carried it through the nineteen fifties and sixties as a 109 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: trendy tropical hotspot for the jet set had dissipated and 110 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: Miami settled into more of a mundane destination for retired 111 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: snowbirds fleeing snowy northern winters. But as the eighties approached, 112 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: the city was about to be revitalized by a different 113 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: sort of white powder. 114 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 5: Cocaine comes from the leaves of the coquetree, found chiefly 115 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 5: in Peru and Bolivia, then processed in Colombia. 116 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 6: About a third of the world's production finds its way 117 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 6: to the United Slime States. 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: And its preferred point of entry, Florida. As nineteen eighty approached, 119 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: Miami was on its way to becoming the skyline. Built 120 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: by cocaine and overrun by drug cartels, crowned the murder 121 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: capital of America, setting the stage for the salacious scene 122 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: that would be dramatized and immortalized when the hit television 123 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: show Miami Vice first aired in nineteen eighty five. Will 124 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: dive more deeply into all of that a bit later, 125 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: But the Miami Stanford ended up moving into was definitely dangerous. 126 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: Maybe that's part of what Pollsville to Miami. 127 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 3: Okay, it's nineteen eighty. I'm working as a columnist for 128 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: political magazine in Washington, d C. Except I don't like 129 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: politics or government or military affairs. Written about that too, 130 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 3: and I want to write about crime. 131 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: Okay, So how did you end up chucking it off 132 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: and heading to Miami. 133 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: Well, like I said, I was sick of writing about 134 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: politics and government. 135 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,559 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you just stay in Washington then and write 136 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: about what you wanted to Why just walk away from 137 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: everything that you built in terms of your career. 138 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: Well, I suppose that's entirely too sensible. 139 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: But in fact I had tried to get out of 140 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: the political rut I was in. I'd actually gone down 141 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 3: to Miami for another smaller magazine called Quest and covered 142 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 3: a big. 143 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: Drug trial, the Black Tuna. 144 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Black Tunic case. 145 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 4: Drug smuggling was also the topic at federal court today 146 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 4: with the beginning of testimony in the government's Black Tuna case. 147 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: The Black Tuna gang ran Miami's drug trade in the 148 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies. The name was coined by the media based 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: on the solid gold medallion with a black Tuna emblem 150 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: worn by members to identify themselves at the time, the 151 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: Black Tuna Gang was alleged by the DA to be 152 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: one of the most sophisticated drug smuggling organizations in existence. 153 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 4: Federal Judge James King listened as one time smuggle turned 154 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 4: government informant Luke McLeod told of the eight tons of 155 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 4: marijuana which he claims to have delivered to the key defendants, 156 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 4: Robert Meinster and Robert Plattshorn in nineteen seventy four nineteen 157 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 4: seventy five, the. 158 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: Gang was accused of importing around five hundred tons of 159 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: marijuana and to the United States over the course of 160 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: sixteen months, operating at one point from a suite in 161 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: the Fontaine Blue Hotel in Miami Beach. But we'll come 162 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: back to all of that later. Back to Phil in 163 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: his time covering the trial. 164 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: I remember sitting there in this big courtroom with stone floors, 165 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: I think they call it Chattahoochee or something like that. 166 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 3: And the courtroom was never packed, you know, it was 167 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 3: always about a third full. Sometimes there were more defendants 168 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 3: up there behind the railing than spectators and reporters from 169 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 3: the local papers in Miami, and few others than me. 170 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: Was a big deal of a trial at the time. 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 2: The government was making a big thing of it. 172 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 3: Now, I was always disposed to excuse marijuana smugglers anyway, 173 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 3: you know. I thought it was ridiculous that there was 174 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 3: a law against this, regardless of how much they were 175 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 3: supposed to have smuggled in. And it turns out the 176 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 3: government greatly exaggerated the amount they did smuggle. But they 177 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 3: charged Platschorn under a Kingpin statute that was meant for 178 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 3: much heavier drug offenses. And what I really remembered about 179 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: that is that he got sixty years for smuggling marijuana 180 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 3: in the United States. 181 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: Remember the length of that sentence. Sixty years will come 182 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: back to it. Because it wasn't entirely motivated by drugs. 183 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: I certainly didn't understand things as well as I might 184 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 3: have when they were happening. I think I probably got 185 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 3: taken in an awful lot by the government. I was 186 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: fascinated by the agents too. They were living in a 187 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: very exciting life and got to know a couple of them. 188 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: It was way better than Washington, d C. That's for sure. 189 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: While Stanford definitely found the trials top bit more compelling 190 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: than Washington based politics, he was equally attracted to its setting. 191 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 3: I was fascinated by Miami. I was fascinated by the 192 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: whole vibe. 193 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: Back then. 194 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: It was wild, and the Miami assignment was a welcomed 195 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: break from his usual beat. 196 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 3: But other than that, I wasn't having any luck getting 197 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: any assignments. I remember sitting in the office at Harper's 198 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 3: Magazine in New York talking to the editor. I totally 199 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 3: wanted to do stuff on crime, and he wanted me 200 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 3: to do some government procedural peace and I said, oh 201 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: my god. And it was about that time I decided 202 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 3: to chuck it all and go to Miami. 203 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: Well, in a way that kind of makes sense, because Miami, 204 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: particularly at that time, was swimming in crime, just in 205 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: terms of the drug trade and everything, and it must have, 206 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: on top of being romantic, it must have felt like 207 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: an outlaw town. 208 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah. 209 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: I mean there was a vibe there, really was, and 210 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 3: people were different down there. I mean, DC is really 211 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 3: a very boring place. 212 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: And Stamford was basically bored of his life and the 213 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: way he was making a living. 214 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 3: I was stuck professionally. That's what I meant by wanting 215 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: to write about crime. But in a way that's sort 216 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 3: of a mental dodge. I suppose the way we give 217 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 3: ourselves more palatable excuses for what's really going on underneath. 218 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 3: And it was personal as well. 219 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: How old were you at the time. 220 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: I was thirty eight, And of course there was the 221 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 3: divorce certainly had something to do with it. 222 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 2: I was missing my boys. 223 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: Phil had two sons with his first wife. After the divorce, 224 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: she relocated with him to Oregon, leaving Stamford feeling unsettled 225 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: and a bit adrift. 226 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 3: And I was having these dreams every two weeks regularly. 227 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: I was in a. 228 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 3: Desert somewhere there's nighttime, just moonlight or starlight, looking out 229 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 3: across the desert at a walled city after midnight, you know, 230 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 3: still a few lights shining through windows, maybe a caravan 231 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 3: leaving what I remember hearing the camel bills in the dream, 232 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 3: and concealing myself behind some sort of sand dune. This 233 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 3: walled city is maybe a quarter mile a half mile away, 234 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: and knowing that I have to get into the city 235 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 3: without being noticed and come back with something I don't 236 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: know what it is. And so I'm there waiting, waiting 237 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:36,080 Speaker 3: to go, but not really daring to go. And it 238 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 3: starts to get lighter, and lighter. Here a rooster crow, 239 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 3: and that's it. I have this dream once a week 240 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 3: or so, and even I can see is some connection 241 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: with Miami. I'd already been down to Miami for the 242 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:53,199 Speaker 3: Black Tuna trial. 243 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: So the dream is about an opportunity that you're going 244 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: to miss if you don't make a. 245 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 3: Move, or something is telling me that there's something I 246 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 3: have to find out. 247 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: I don't know. 248 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you left Washington in a bit of a rush. 249 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 3: Nine or two before I left, there was a party 250 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 3: at the place where I was living. There wasn't a 251 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: going away party, it was just a party telling everyone 252 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 3: talking about going to Miami. And someone says, do you 253 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: have a job yet? I know this person is much 254 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 3: more practical than I am. I guess said, well, I 255 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: know the publisher of a newspaper down there. I'll give 256 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: him a call and he'll be expecting to hear from you. 257 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 3: Maybe you can work out something there. So I quit 258 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 3: my job on very short notice. I'm ashamed to say, 259 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 3: load everything into my old beat up Capri and head 260 00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 3: to Miami. Attribute its exit and driving down that It 261 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 3: was a huge change from Washington, d C. It was 262 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 3: during the winter months and DC everything is drab, and 263 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 3: you've got the dirty ice and overcast sky and the 264 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 3: farther south. I'd get the writer. I'd finally in Miami, 265 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 3: the sun just burst upon you and primary colors. 266 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 2: Miami just it was. 267 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 3: Another world, bright blue, dark green vegetation, the sea, blue 268 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 3: green sea, lit with the sun, and it was a 269 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: glorious place, it seemed to me. 270 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 2: I parked in front. 271 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 3: Of the Miami News building, which was on the right, 272 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 3: on the edge of the Bay. I persuade the managing 273 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 3: editor of the Miami News, a very nice lady named 274 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: Gloria Anderson, to give me a job writing what I 275 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: referred to as detective stories. 276 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: So you start doing investigating crime stories. 277 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. 278 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I liked what I was doing, long stories 279 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 3: divided by chapters, and I think readers liked them too. 280 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 3: Miami was full of great stories back then. And I 281 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 3: did several unsolved murderers, Jewelry heis pirates off the shore 282 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: of Andros Island. 283 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,359 Speaker 1: And then you decided to take on one of Miami's 284 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: biggest unsolved mysteries. 285 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 286 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 3: I started working on a story about a pretty young 287 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 3: seventeen year old girl, Amy Billig, who about what five 288 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 3: or six years before, had been walking down the street 289 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 3: near her home in Coconut Grove on the way to 290 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: the store or something like that, and she just disappeared, 291 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: as far as anyone who vanished into thin air. No 292 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: one saw her again, ever, and the mother, to her credit, 293 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 3: never let it go. She kept demanding answers. And so 294 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: I got in touch with the mother and she had 295 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 3: a new lead. Someone had called her three o'clock in 296 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 3: the morning, called or collect and told her daughter was alive. 297 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 3: And well, so you know, this was well before the 298 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 3: cell phones. 299 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 2: Or call her id. She had to go down to 300 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 2: the phone company to. 301 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 3: Get the address of the of the person who called, 302 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 3: which she had because she'd had accepted the call. Someone 303 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: had called her turns out from a little town in Oklahoma, Ceman, Oklahoma. 304 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 3: So I was going to go out there, Toman, Oklahoma 305 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 3: and solve this case and probably make a name for myself. 306 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking at the time. 307 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: And how would you do. 308 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 3: Well at that point, the story was taking too long anyway. 309 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 3: After several weeks, Gloria calls me into her office and says, 310 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 3: the publisher is getting a little bit restive about our 311 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 3: little experiment with detective stories. This one is taking too long. 312 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 3: He doesn't think it's good use of the time. And 313 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 3: if I don't come up with something pretty quick on 314 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 3: the Amy Billy case, we would have to reassess our arrangement. 315 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: And I say, Gloria, but I have a new lead. 316 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 3: And I tell her about that phone call and how 317 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 3: I want to go out to Seaman, Oklahoma, and all 318 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 3: I need is an airline ticket and money for a 319 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 3: rental car. Come on if it works out as Pulletzer 320 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: prize material. And she says, okay, but I'm telling you. 321 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 3: So I get my ticket and I get all packed 322 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 3: and ready to go, and the night before I'm with 323 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 3: my girlfriend Ruth in the Prying Pub. 324 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 2: That's where we hung out. 325 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: Who was Ruth? Did you meet her in Miami? 326 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:33,640 Speaker 2: Yeah? 327 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 3: She was Gloria's secretary and we sort of took up 328 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,679 Speaker 3: together after I started working at the News. It's a 329 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 3: very talkative, cute redhead who'd spend some time hanging around 330 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 3: with country bands in Nashville. 331 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: So she had no problem attracting mail attention, none at all. 332 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: And Stanford's not exaggerating. I tracked down a candid photo 333 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: of the couple at the time, and it actually looks 334 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: like a paparazzi shot. It's in black and white, and 335 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: the two appear to be arriving at some sort of event. 336 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: Phil's glancing back towards Ruth. He's wearing a blazer and 337 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: a collared shirt unbuttoned far enough to reveal a disco 338 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: era amount of tanned chest, and Ruth is smiling broadly 339 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: at the camera from underneath thick bangs, her face framed 340 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: in a wavy mane that just falls past her shoulders. 341 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: Her vibe is as cool and confident as the silky 342 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: top that accentuates her slim, yet pronounced curves. They made 343 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: a stunning couple. Here's Ruth, that former girlfriend recollecting Phil Well. 344 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 7: I met him in the newsroom Miami News. My first 345 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 7: impression was he was basically kind of an explosing personality. 346 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 7: Most of our reporters and all were kind of laid 347 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 7: back and all that, but Phil was always on charge, 348 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 7: very verbal and outspoken. Dolly's traveling at one hundred miles 349 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 7: an hour, there was no down mellow time would fail that. 350 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 7: He was so smart and interesting. Our conversations were just 351 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 7: so different than you have with most guys. You know, 352 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 7: and Bill was very good looking. Oh yeah, and he 353 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 7: had a great body. 354 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: Okay, back to Phil and Ruth. In that bar in Parime, we. 355 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 3: Were sitting in the bar there, the big horseshoe shaped bar, 356 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 3: and she's telling the bartender about how I'm going out 357 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 3: to Oklahoma and I was going to solve the Amy 358 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 3: Billy kicks. And one of the things she's saying to 359 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 3: the bartender is that the theory at that time was 360 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 3: that Amy Billy had been snatched off the street by 361 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 3: some bikers who were coming through tent and down at 362 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 3: the end of the bar a few places away, there's 363 00:20:53,359 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 3: this guy, long hair, sort of good looking guy who says, say, 364 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 3: I'm going to be talking to some bikers here over 365 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 3: the weekend. 366 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 2: Maybe I can help. 367 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 3: And it turns out he's a private investigator, hands me 368 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 3: his card, says Clay Williams Intercept Detective Agency. 369 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 7: I remember a guy doing that, but he didn't register 370 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 7: with me that much, you know, because people, when they 371 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 7: knew you were reporters, are always giving you their cards. 372 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: While the offering of the card wasn't noteworthy, Ruth recalls 373 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: the guy offering it was. 374 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 7: I remember he was kind of unusual for that bar. 375 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:38,679 Speaker 7: You know what I'm saying. The way he looked and 376 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 7: dressed and everything. 377 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember him? 378 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:41,520 Speaker 8: What way? 379 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 7: Well, he was just a little more high rent than 380 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 7: most of the customers there, well dressed and all that which. 381 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 7: The Parime Pub was the kind of bar you go 382 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,360 Speaker 7: in and your pajamas if you wanted to. There's nothing 383 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 7: about it sophisticated or chic. 384 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,199 Speaker 1: And it was very small. 385 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 7: It wasn't a big bar at all. 386 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: That card and the man it belonged to, Clay Williams, 387 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: would end up having an enormous impact on Stanford. 388 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: And this story, okay, Well, to make a short story short, 389 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,640 Speaker 3: I'd fly out to Seam in Oklahoma, get a rental car, 390 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 3: go to this little town, just two thousand population, find 391 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,880 Speaker 3: the address, knock on the door, and the woman there, 392 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 3: of course doesn't look anything like Amy Belling. Her husband's there. 393 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 3: And the story is they have parties all the time, 394 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 3: people coming in and out of the house, and on 395 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 3: this particular night when a mother got the call, they 396 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 3: were having one of those big parties. They have no 397 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 3: idea who is there. In other words, it was a 398 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 3: complete flop. I go back to the airport, get on 399 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 3: the plane, go back to Miami, and I know I'm 400 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 3: in trouble. 401 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: Stanford figured he was likely to lose his job at 402 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: the paper. Then he remembered that stranger from the bar, 403 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: Clay Williams, the private investigator who'd offered to ask the 404 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: bikers about Amy Billig. 405 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 3: So I get out the card for Clay Williams, which 406 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: I thought I'd never have to use because I was 407 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 3: so sure that this was going to be it, and 408 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 3: I called the number on it. Intercept secretary answers. I 409 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 3: asked for Clay Williams and she says, I'm sorry, we 410 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 3: don't have a Clay Williams here. 411 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 2: And I said what she said? No. 412 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: At this point, Stanford's not only desperate, he's confused and annoyed. 413 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 2: So I jump in my car drive out there. 414 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 3: They're actually in Perne too. They have nice offices in 415 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: the Bank of Parne, third floor. And barge into the 416 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 3: office and I'm waiving this card and the secretary and 417 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 3: I said, look, I have his card. 418 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: It says he works here. 419 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: And this big burly guy comes out of the office, 420 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 3: introduces himself Bob Adams. He's an inventor scept going in 421 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 3: and let's talk and so we go into his office. 422 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 2: The first thing we noticed there's. 423 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 3: This big poster of Casablanca behind his desk. Turns out 424 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 3: he's something of a romantic. So we talk and he says, 425 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 3: sorry about the confusion, but we didn't know who you 426 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: were when you called. You know, we get all sorts 427 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 3: of calls from all sorts of people, but yeah, Clay 428 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,399 Speaker 3: Williams did some work for us, and we haven't been 429 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 3: able to get in touch with him for two or 430 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: three days. I guess it was. And we're worried about 431 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 3: him too. And I say, I'm worried about him because 432 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 3: I think I may be responsible. 433 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: Worried Williams wound up in trouble after asking bikers about 434 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 1: Amy Billig. Stanford fears it's his fault. The guy's gone missing. 435 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: When he conveyed that to Bob Adams, Adams offered to 436 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: assist Stanford in his search for Clay Williams. 437 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 3: The next few days, they sort of squire me around 438 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 3: as a dog and pony show. We're looking for Clay Williams, 439 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 3: and of course we don't find him. 440 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: Did he ever turn up? 441 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. 442 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: About two weeks later, got a call from Bob. He 443 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 3: said they found Clay. 444 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: He's dead. They found his body in the Everglades. 445 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,400 Speaker 1: Suddenly Stamford is really regretting that exchange in the bar. 446 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: Now I am quite convinced I'm responsible for Clay Williams's death. 447 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 3: I told Bob too that I was worried that I'd 448 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: caused Clay's death because he was doing research for me. 449 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,520 Speaker 3: And he says, well, look, you're still working for the newspaper, 450 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 3: right And I said yeah, And he said, well, why 451 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 3: don't you go down to the Sheriff's office talk to 452 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 3: the detectives working on this case and see what they know. 453 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 3: And so I go down Miami Dade Sheriff's Office tell 454 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: the person at the entrance that I'd like to talk 455 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 3: to the detectives from the Miami News and I might 456 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 3: have some information that's useful on Clay Williams. One of 457 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 3: the detectives comes out, tall, lanky guy, sort of detective 458 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 3: issue suit, and leads me back to the room where 459 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,760 Speaker 3: his partner is and I sit in front of their 460 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 3: desk and I tell them about the Amy Billy case. 461 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,919 Speaker 3: I think I might be responsible for this death, and 462 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 3: they say right away, no, this has nothing to do 463 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 3: with the missing girl. They think it's drugs, and I 464 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 3: said no, no, no, no. So we go back and forth, 465 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 3: and at a certain point they start pulling out pictures 466 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 3: of Clay Williams's body, polaroids taken out in the Everglades, 467 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 3: and he's just this is after two weeks now. He's 468 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 3: a skeleton with long hair down to his shoulders. Most 469 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 3: of the flesh has gone from his face, and the 470 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: alligators have taken off an arm and part of a leg. 471 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 3: And they show me more photos of the body and 472 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: they say, you better watch what you're getting into. I 473 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 3: said no, no, I'm fine, and so they just sort 474 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 3: of throw up their hands escort me to the. 475 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: Door, but not without offering Phil a final warning. 476 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 3: They said, look, you're involved with some dangerous people here. 477 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 2: And I report back to Bob. I call and tell 478 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: them what I found out. 479 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 3: They said, good work, good work, And so that was 480 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: sort of my first job for. 481 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: Intercept as a private detective. 482 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 3: As a newspaper reporter slash private detective. 483 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: Yes, as gruesome as Clay Williams's death may sound, apparently 484 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: it didn't even make news. I couldn't find any information 485 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: about it online or in any of the newspaper archives, 486 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: but that could be because it was just one of 487 00:27:54,640 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: an avalanche of murders in that year. In nineteen eighty alone, 488 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 1: Miami had a record five hundred and seventy three murders. 489 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: The Miami Dade Morgue was so overwhelmed with corpses that 490 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: the Medical Examiner's office had to lease a refrigerated truck 491 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: to keep the cascades of bodies on ice, and Miami 492 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: earned the dubious distinction of being the nation's murder capital, 493 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 1: largely as a result of shootouts among cocaine cowboys and 494 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: violent crimes committed by Mariolito's crime games of mostly male 495 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: Cubans who'd poured into Miami at the time straight from 496 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 1: the prisons in Cuba. It was a recipe for violence 497 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: and volatility. Here's how Ruth Phil's then girlfriend, who also 498 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: worked at the Miami News at the time, remembers it. 499 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 7: During those years in Miami, there were so many people 500 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 7: that turned up dead because anybody crossed the cartails and 501 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 7: any white. They just killed everybody that was home. One 502 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 7: of the people that got arrested even said that we 503 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 7: just killed everybody that was at home, And there were 504 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 7: so many murders that were just inexplicable. Back then, it 505 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 7: was a crazy time in. 506 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: Miami and a time when drug money fueled the mayhem, as. 507 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 7: We say in the South, money tops and bullshit walks, 508 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 7: because I had millions of millions of dollars that I 509 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 7: were making from. 510 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: That money made on supply and demand during the eighties. 511 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 5: The number of Americans abusing cocaine has skyrocketed. In the 512 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 5: early part of the decade, this white powder was considered 513 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 5: a white collar drug. Coke was it. Coke was chic, 514 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 5: and at one hundred dollars a gram, it had the 515 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 5: high price tag to match cocaine his big business. Americans 516 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 5: are spending over thirty billion dollars a year on it. 517 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 5: Both suppliers and users are a formidable adversary in the 518 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 5: war on drugs. 519 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: And in nineteen eighty Miami was the undisputed ground zero 520 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: in that battle. 521 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 9: I tell people that that was our capolan era because 522 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 9: it was just crazy with all the achilles. 523 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: That's Israel reeis a former Circuit court judge of the 524 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: eleventh Judicial Circuit of Florida. Today, he runs his own 525 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: law firm. After nearly thirty years of public service as 526 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: a judge and assistant State's Attorney. I sought him out 527 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: because from nineteen eighty until nineteen ninety five he was 528 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: also a police officer detective with the Miami Dade Police Department, 529 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: where at various times he worked in the Homicide Bureau, 530 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: Media Relations Section, and Special Investigations divisions Criminal Conspiracy and 531 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: Racketeering squads. So he was no stranger to drug related violence. 532 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 9: My first exposure to that was when I was still 533 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 9: a patrol officer in nineteen eighty or eighty one, when 534 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,840 Speaker 9: I was dispatched to a shooting in the New part 535 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 9: of Miami Les, Florida. I mean Lakes is now an 536 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 9: incorporated town, but back then it was just an unincorporated 537 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 9: area of Day County. 538 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 10: As I arrived on the scene, I was the first 539 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 10: officer on the scene. 540 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 9: That was the victim was lying in his driveway and 541 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 9: he had been peppered with either a Mac ten or 542 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 9: a Mac eleven, which is a small panheld submachine gun 543 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 9: that was used a lot by the Colombian pitman. 544 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 6: I remember he was lying in his driveway there and 545 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 6: the garage store was behind him in the five story 546 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 6: was just littered with holes because they just kept shooting 547 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 6: at this guy with this automatic submachine gun. 548 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: In that era, most if not all, of Miami's violent 549 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: crimes were meant to serve as messages or warnings to 550 00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,200 Speaker 1: those who'd crossed the drug cartels or even considered it. 551 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 10: We would just hear about these different cases people just 552 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 10: being killed. I think there was like eight or nine 553 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 10: people killed inside a housing Kendall, which was, you know, 554 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 10: the South Date area, a nice middle class area. Eight 555 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 10: or nine people killed there. There were a lot of 556 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 10: kidnappings for ransom. 557 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just. 558 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 7: Day in and day out. 559 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: Former detective Jeff Lewis, who is now a private investigator, 560 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: started out as a uniformed officer in the Liberty City 561 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: area of Miami in nineteen eighty before going on to 562 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: become an undercover detective, robber detective, and homicide detective in 563 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: Miami Dade. He also gave me his take on the times. 564 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 11: I would categorize it as the wild will left. Every 565 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 11: day somebody was getting shot, murdered, robbed, victimized. The crime 566 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 11: was definitely out of control in that particular time. 567 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: Buyed by the influx of drug related conflicts, the crime 568 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: wave hit with a gruesome severity not before seen in 569 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: the US, and. 570 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 11: Then started in Miami because that's what the money was 571 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 11: and that's what the people that wanted to make money came. 572 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 11: The term home invasion robbery was coined in Miami. You 573 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,400 Speaker 11: didn't have all invasion robberies in la or Chicago or 574 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 11: New York like we did in Miami. That's where it started, 575 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,840 Speaker 11: because that's where a drug trade really started and blew up. 576 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 11: One of our sergeants coined the term home nation robbery. 577 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: Wow. And so that was a direct result of the 578 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: influence of the violence that the cartels brought with the business. 579 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 11: Absolutely. I mean, you know, between the Columbians and Mary 580 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 11: Elitos and a lot of those Cubans that came over. 581 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: Everybody saw the movie Star Base. 582 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 11: I mean, that's what would happened if you were a 583 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 11: criminal and you came to Miami from Maryelle. If you 584 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 11: didn't become a drug dealer, you became a drug robin, 585 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 11: and then you would recruit those to work for you, 586 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 11: and usually those were the people you were in prison 587 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 11: with inquboat. So it was a big vicious cycle and it. 588 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 2: Was a business. 589 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 10: You had two businesses with that. 590 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 11: You had the drug dealers and then you had the 591 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 11: people that were robbing a drug dealer. So our hands 592 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 11: were full because we had to deal with both both groups, 593 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 11: and they were vicious and they were nasty. I mean, 594 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 11: these guys were ruthless. Victims were hurt so bad they 595 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 11: had to call the police or an ambulance or go 596 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 11: to the hospital, and otherwise they probably wouldn't even call 597 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 11: the police. We would have on cooperative viness and that 598 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 11: was a problem as a robbin detective was very prevalent. 599 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: And so it was also pretty prevalent that many of 600 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: these crimes went unsolved, especially ones involving discarded bodies like 601 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: the body of Clay Williams. 602 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,879 Speaker 11: During that specific time, and they had what they would 603 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 11: call body dumps out in the redlands or out in 604 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 11: the swamp areas or anywhere outside of the cities. Sometimes 605 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 11: they would get the individual identified, sometimes they wouldn't. But 606 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 11: a lot of those cases turn out to be drug related, 607 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 11: and they didn't get the assistance from the Vickers family 608 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,800 Speaker 11: because they were either too afraid or they were also 609 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 11: involved in the drug trade. So a lot of those 610 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 11: cases went unsolved. But it was basically drug dealers killing 611 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,280 Speaker 11: other drug dealers. 612 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: And if the rise in drug dealing was linked to 613 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 1: the rise in body counts. So was the violence those 614 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,240 Speaker 1: bodies endured before being found. 615 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 11: And you just don't kill a lot of times. Either 616 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:56,720 Speaker 11: that person stole from you, lie to you, it's something 617 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 11: to your family in regards to drugs, or they knew 618 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 11: where big stash was or whatever. So they're going to 619 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 11: torture you. They're going to kill you. Now they've got 620 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 11: to get rid of the body out there in the Everglades. 621 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 11: You go out there where nobody goes, and middle of 622 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 11: the night, dump the body and leave no id. Sometimes 623 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 11: you might pull the teeth, cut the fingers off, maybe 624 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 11: the head. You know, you don't want the body to 625 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 11: get identified, or you put it in there and hope 626 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 11: the gators will get it. That's not a myth. I mean, 627 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 11: there's been plenty of bones found in the Everglades even today. 628 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 11: I'm sure there's bones still out there. I'd say that's 629 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 11: part of the deal. Cost of doing business in the 630 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 11: drug trade and crossing somebody. 631 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: Phil Miami and the situation you were walking into sounded 632 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 1: outright dangerous. Didn't you realize any of this? 633 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 2: Well, sure I did. 634 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,400 Speaker 3: When I was at the News, I had written a 635 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 3: front page story about how Miami had become the murder 636 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 3: capital of the United States. I just looked at the 637 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 3: FBI crime statistics and did the necessary arithmetic, and it 638 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 3: had the highest per capita rate of murders in the 639 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 3: United States clips Houston, New York City was murder City USA. 640 00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 3: Kind of interesting that after it appeared on the front page. 641 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 3: I mean it was a banner headline across the front page. 642 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 3: The delegation from the Chamber of Commerce came in and 643 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 3: there were hush meetings with the editors back behind those 644 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 3: little glass cubicles, and they were upset that newspaper would 645 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 3: be pointing this out. 646 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: When Bob Adams made Phil Stanford and offered a work 647 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: at Intercept Agency, basically replacing Clay Williams, Phil didn't suspect 648 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: Intercept and its activities may actually have been responsible for 649 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: Clay Williams being murdered and left to the alligators in 650 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: the Everglades. 651 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 3: At this point, I don't know exactly what it was 652 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 3: that got him killed. 653 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: So after his gruesome death, being warned by police detectives 654 00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 1: that you're getting involved with dangerous people, taking the job 655 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: of a man who was just murdered dumped in the 656 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,919 Speaker 1: Everglades and half eaten by alligators. 657 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:09,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I suppose you could look at it that way. 658 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: And you realize that the murder of Clay Williams has 659 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: never been solved. 660 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently that's the case. 661 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: So after you gave me his name, I put in 662 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: a formal request for information on the case months ago 663 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 1: in January with the Miami Dade Sheriff's Office, and to 664 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: date they can't seem to find the file. I mean, 665 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: they're still looking for it, but they believe it may 666 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: have been misfiled or even lost. 667 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,480 Speaker 3: Now that's ridiculous. A cold case murder, and they think 668 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:40,720 Speaker 3: maybe they lost the file. 669 00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 1: But you must have realized even at the time that 670 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: something wasn't right. 671 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: I wasn't thinking about that. 672 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 3: I was at a point in my life where I 673 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 3: was just sort of throwing my fate to the wind. 674 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 3: It's one of those times when all your plans are 675 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 3: coming to nothing, when nothing's working. 676 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: Maybe the best player of all is no plan at all. 677 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 2: And I ended up working for Intercend What could go. 678 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: Wrong more, it turns out than Phil could have ever imagined. 679 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: Because Intercept, that private investigation firm. Phil now worked for 680 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,280 Speaker 1: wasn't exactly what it seemed, But of course. 681 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,919 Speaker 3: I had no way of knowing the detective Agency would 682 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 3: turn out to be a front for a major drug 683 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 3: operation that was about to be indicted in federal court. 684 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: Wow. 685 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 3: And when the indictment came down, the guy they were 686 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 3: working for, this dashing drug pilot by the name of 687 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 3: Lamar Chester, would claim he did it all. 688 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,200 Speaker 2: For this CIA. Did he have proof, he said, if they. 689 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 3: Put him on trial, he was going to spill the 690 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 3: beams on the CIA and it would shake the foundations 691 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 3: of the government to its core. 692 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: Did he give you any idea of what kind of 693 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 1: secrets he had? 694 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 3: Well, that's where things start to get interesting and maybe 695 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 3: a little bit dangerous too. 696 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: So Clay wasn't the only person who oh no on 697 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: the next murder in Miami. Months of researching the mysterious 698 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,880 Speaker 1: death of Clay Williams raises more questions than answers. 699 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,840 Speaker 2: It was a strange funeral anyway. 700 00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 3: Standing in the back end of the trailer were about 701 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 3: four or five very big guys, obviously detectives. They were 702 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 3: there to send a message. 703 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: Stanford was all too willing to dive into the new 704 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: role of private investigator. 705 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 3: I'm just there to handle the stuff that comes in 706 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 3: from the Yellow Pages. 707 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:37,279 Speaker 2: So the rest of the. 708 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 3: Guys contend to the real business, which was the drug business. 709 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,279 Speaker 3: Of course, this is Miami, and there was no big 710 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 3: secret at all that their biggest client at the time 711 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,280 Speaker 3: was this dashing dope pilot by the name of Lamar Chester. 712 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 8: He introduced me to Bob Adams and another fellow there, 713 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 8: and I had understood from that these were former intelligence 714 00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 8: people from the federal government, whether it's CIA, Army intelligence, 715 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 8: they were all associated. I think that's how Clay got 716 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 8: to know these people. 717 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: Murder Miami is a production of iHeartRadio. Executive producers are 718 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,319 Speaker 1: Lauren Brei Pacheco, Taylor Chackoine, and Phil Stamford. Written by 719 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: Bill Stamford and Lauren bred Pacheco, Audio editing and sound 720 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: design by Nicholas Harder, Evan Tyer, and Taylor Chackoine, featuring 721 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: music by Evan Tyre, Phil Mayer, John Murchison and Taylor Chackoine. 722 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,320 Speaker 1: Archival elements provided by Lennon Lewis Wolfson, the Second Florida 723 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 1: Moving Image Archives and phil Archives Incorporated. For more podcasts 724 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts, or 725 00:40:50,880 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: wherever you get the stories that matter to you.