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Speaker 1: During the campaign, there was polling that showed twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five was deeply on popular, but people just didn't believe

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Speaker 1: that Trump would do these things. They said, if Trump did,

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Speaker 1: you know, band abortion entirely, for example, I wouldn't like that.

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Speaker 1: But there's no chance he's going to do this. And

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Speaker 1: there's a whole list of those things. So I think

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Speaker 1: when people understand what it actually means, there will be

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Speaker 1: more pushback. But if they see it simply as a

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Speaker 1: kind of fuzzy pro family agenda, they may underestimate just

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Speaker 1: how sweeping and radical it is.

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Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to this episode of Next

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Speaker 2: Question You Know. Project twenty twenty five is a nearly

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Speaker 2: one thousand page document that is designed to serve as

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Speaker 2: a blueprint for transforming American society. Most people, of course,

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Speaker 2: heard of it prior to the election, but many people

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Speaker 2: hadn't and still haven't read it, and those who did

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Speaker 2: read it thought there was no way in hell that

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump would actually implement it. Well guess what he has.

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Speaker 2: So here are the questions, what does Project twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five actually say, what does it mean? And is there

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Speaker 2: any way to stop what seems to be this runaway train.

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Speaker 2: David Graham, who's a writer for the Atlantic, has written

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Speaker 2: a new book called The Project. How Project twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: five is reshaping America, and he's here to answer those

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Speaker 2: questions and more. I think you're one of the few people, David,

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Speaker 2: who has read Project twenty twenty five's Mandate for Leadership

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Speaker 2: cover to cover. It's almost one thousand pages, nine hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty two. So, in broad strokes, what was your

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Speaker 2: takeaway after reading the whole damn thing?

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Speaker 1: Right? You know, I'd read bits and pieces during the campaign,

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Speaker 1: but I hadn't read the whole thing, And when I

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Speaker 1: actually sat down to read it, I was pretty astonished.

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Speaker 1: It was a richer document that I had realized. It

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Speaker 1: was more radical, it was more interesting. There are these

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Speaker 1: conflicts in it, and it seemed like such a roadmap

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Speaker 1: to what we would expect from a Trump administration. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's exactly how it's played out.

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Speaker 2: You were initially somewhat skeptical of the hype around Project

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, but as you said, it was much

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Speaker 2: more radical than you thought. Can you tell us more

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Speaker 2: about that and what you ascertained that made you think

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Speaker 2: Jesus this is pretty serious stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, we get these kind of policy blueprints every

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Speaker 1: four years, and often there are just kind of lists

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Speaker 1: of policies people want, and that's what I thought this

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Speaker 1: was too. But this is really a whole scheme for

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Speaker 1: remaking the federal government and then remaking American society. I

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Speaker 1: think it's ambitions are just much broader, and it has methods.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they thought about how to make these things

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Speaker 1: happen in a way that the typical policy wishless just

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Speaker 1: doesn't have.

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Speaker 2: Like what I mean, tell us how they hope to

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Speaker 2: implement it to get widespread acceptance, and we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: its popularity or left up later, but it's much more

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Speaker 2: give us a little more meat to understand the methodology

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Speaker 2: they hope to incorporate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, the centerpiece is taking charge of the

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Speaker 1: federal government and taking charge of the executive branch in

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Speaker 1: a way that no president has before. So they lay

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Speaker 1: out how to take over the Justice Department, how to

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Speaker 1: use the Office of Management and Budget, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of a dusty agency as the command center for

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Speaker 1: taking charge of the federal government, how to use the

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Speaker 1: Office of Presidential Personnel, and then to sort of accrue

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Speaker 1: presidential power by taking over independent regulatory agencies, so things

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Speaker 1: like you know, the FCC or the FTC. Traditionally, you know,

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Speaker 1: they work relatively independently. They're appointed by the president and

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Speaker 1: their leaders, but then they do their own thing. They

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Speaker 1: think that's unconstitutional. They want Trump to be directing those things.

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Speaker 1: And once you have control of all of them, and

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Speaker 1: you start to push civil servants out as well, you

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Speaker 1: can make the federal government do what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: and that includes creating this very conservative vision of society.

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump during the campaign obviously distanced himself from Project

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Speaker 2: twenty five, but it seems like he is in it

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Speaker 2: hole hog, isn't it. Talk about the difference between how

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Speaker 2: he talked about this document and how it's been implemented

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Speaker 2: already during the course of his still young administration second administration.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's something like seventy contributors to Project twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. A quarter of them were in his first administration.

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Speaker 1: Some of them were cabinet members. Russell Vote, wh's kind

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Speaker 1: of the intellectual architect, was the head of OMB in

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Speaker 1: the first administration. He is again. He led Trump's policy

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Speaker 1: committee during the twenty twenty four campaign. So the idea

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Speaker 1: that there was really any distance I think was always

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Speaker 1: very flimsy. But now that he's in office, he's put

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Speaker 1: these people in top positions and he's followed their prescriptions

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Speaker 1: really closely. So, you know, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: executive orders we saw in the first week of the presidency,

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Speaker 1: thirty seven of forty seven I believe, according to Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: were directly from Project twenty twenty five. He's following the

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Speaker 1: blueprint right as it's laid out.

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Speaker 2: Tell me more about this Russell Vogue guy, because if

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Speaker 2: he is sort of the intellectual archaet of it, tell

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Speaker 2: me about his background, his philosophy, and how he has

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Speaker 2: imbued this document or this blueprint with his own ideas.

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Speaker 1: So votes an interesting guy because he comes from this

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Speaker 1: sort of traditional conservative, socially conservative, fiscally conservative wing of

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party, and he worked for Phil Graham and

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Speaker 1: the Senate. He came up through these these traditional channels.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't seem like naturally a Trump guy because he is

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Speaker 1: so socially conservative. But he got into the first Trump

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Speaker 1: administration and he found himself really frustrated by what he saw.

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Speaker 1: He saw civil servants, he felt who were obstructing Trump.

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Speaker 1: But he also saw political appointees who he thought were lazy,

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Speaker 1: or who were rhinos, or who were you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to obstruct Trump for whatever their ends were. And he

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Speaker 1: didn't want that to happen again. And so he designs

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Speaker 1: Projects twenty twenty five as a way to have staff

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Speaker 1: who would be on board, who'd be trained and ready

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Speaker 1: to go, and as a set of methods to sort

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Speaker 1: of drive through that opposition and to bring about the

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Speaker 1: you know, the Christian nation that he says we should be.

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Speaker 1: And we're founded as you who shocked.

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Speaker 2: I know you've read bits and pieces before you wrote

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Speaker 2: this book, but when you read it in its totality,

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Speaker 2: what was your reaction in general as just an American

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Speaker 2: citizen in terms of what they were trying to do.

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Speaker 1: I was amazed how radical it was. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is just a program for all of society, and they

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Speaker 1: want to change so many basically, you know, want to

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Speaker 1: change the way your children are taught and what you

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Speaker 1: get in classrooms. They want to change the way you

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Speaker 1: interact with your healthcare providers. They want to affect really everything,

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Speaker 1: every part of life. And I think I hadn't realized

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Speaker 1: that I mean, I remember reading through it and I

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Speaker 1: kept like, you know, walking out of my office to

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Speaker 1: my wife, like you won't believe what I'm reading here?

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Speaker 1: Can you believe that they're saying this? And you know,

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Speaker 1: I think it is. You know, it's important to understand

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Speaker 1: just how systematic it is. And that's what I didn't

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Speaker 1: grasp until I read the whole thing, and what I

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Speaker 1: hope I can convey in the book.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm curious if you saw it also

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Speaker 2: as a blueprint for autocracy, because you know, it sounds

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Speaker 2: both like it wants to go back in time right

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Speaker 2: and remove what most people see as progress or some

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Speaker 2: people see as progress in terms of equal rights, the

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Speaker 2: role of women, and marginalized communities, opportunities, you know, being

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Speaker 2: more full throated participants in American life, and autocracy. So

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Speaker 2: where do you see it philosophically? Landing it's a melding

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Speaker 2: of those two things, you know. So some of the

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Speaker 2: ideas here are things that we've heard from the Republican

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Speaker 2: Party or from social concertis for a long time. And

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Speaker 2: I think what sets this apart is the willingness to

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Speaker 2: use the federal government as a kind of coercive force

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Speaker 2: This is not a sort of, you know, Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 2: limited government idea. This is about accruing a lot of

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Speaker 2: presidential power and using it to, you know, to build

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Speaker 2: the society people want in a way that the Republican

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Speaker 2: Party has traditionally stood against. We'll talk about the Christian

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Speaker 2: nationalism part in a moment, because I don't want to

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Speaker 2: make listeners viewers think that I just was like glossing

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Speaker 2: that over. But first I want to talk about some

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Speaker 2: of the goals of Project twenty twenty five. They're four

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Speaker 2: of them, and let's talk about them. One is restore

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Speaker 2: the family is the centerpiece of American life and protect

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Speaker 2: our children. What does that mean exactly? From their vantage point.

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Speaker 1: It means a whole range of things. So it means,

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Speaker 1: for example, abolishing the Department of Education and giving parents

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Speaker 1: and giving religious organizations much more ConTroll over education, moving

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Speaker 1: things away from the public school system and towards private

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Speaker 1: schools and religious schools. It means banning abortion nationwide. It

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Speaker 1: means defining gender or defining sex as male and female

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Speaker 1: with nothing between, sort of pushing trans people into the shadows.

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Speaker 1: It means using things like welfare to encourage nuclear families

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Speaker 1: to encourage marriage and fatherhood. They lay out basically how

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Speaker 1: to use every department of the government as a way

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Speaker 1: to achieve these things.

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Speaker 2: How much of the document feels like, either blatantly or implicitly,

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Speaker 2: a backlash against progressive sort of liberal thinking in general.

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Speaker 2: Does it go without saying or is it specified within

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Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: It is specified at places. And they talk a lot

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Speaker 1: about wokeness. They don't tell us what they mean by that,

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Speaker 1: but they're clearly reacting against something. And in statements, you know,

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Speaker 1: in interviews elsewhere, Russell Vote and Paul Danz, who is

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Speaker 1: sort of his partner in building this, have talked about

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Speaker 1: their reaction to how society has changed, and they're feeling that,

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Speaker 1: you know, Christianity is being sidelined, and then the America

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Speaker 1: that they know and love is being taken away from

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Speaker 1: them and they want to reclaim it.

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Speaker 2: What do they think of separation of church and state.

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Speaker 1: They don't believe in it.

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Speaker 2: They don't.

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Speaker 1: It's simply not a factor. I mean, they say that

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Speaker 1: the government shouldn't establish a church, but they say this

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Speaker 1: is a Christian nation, it was founded as a Christian nation,

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Speaker 1: and it should be Vote speaking to Charlie Kirk a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago said, you know, the left uses

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Speaker 1: all these pejoratives for us. They call me a Christian nationalist,

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Speaker 1: But unlike a lot of the pejoratives, I think that's true.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Christian, I'm a nationalist. I think we should

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Speaker 1: have a Christian nation.

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Speaker 2: Another goal is to dismantle the administrative state and return

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Speaker 2: self governance to the American people. What does that mean exactly?

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Speaker 1: So, the administrative state is basically the executive branch as

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Speaker 1: we know it. We have hundreds of thousands of civil

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Speaker 1: servants who, you know, we interact with them when we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with social security. They are forecasting our weather, they

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Speaker 1: are sending grants to our schools, all of these things,

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Speaker 1: and they operate in a sort of semi autonomous way.

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Speaker 1: They're non political, they stay in the government no matter

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Speaker 1: what happens. They're also these independent agencies that act sort

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Speaker 1: of outside of the president's purview. They want to demolish

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Speaker 1: all of that. They think the president should have full

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Speaker 1: control of anyone who works at the executive branch, and

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Speaker 1: those people should be basically working towards his political goals,

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Speaker 1: whatever those might be. And so they want to lay

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Speaker 1: off civil servants. We've obviously seen a lot of that already,

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Speaker 1: and I will see more of it. They want to

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Speaker 1: convert other civil servants to being political appointees, and they

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Speaker 1: want to with you know, get rid of these guard

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Speaker 1: reels we've traditionally seen, like Justice Department independence example.

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Speaker 2: Scary, right, I mean, you're talking about it so matter

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Speaker 2: of factly, but you know, most civil servants aren't necessarily

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Speaker 2: there to push an ideological agenda. They're really there to

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Speaker 2: keep the government going right, the wheels of government operating right.

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Speaker 2: So it's almost a sense of paranoia that there are

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Speaker 2: dark forces lurking. I guess that's why they call it

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Speaker 2: the deep state, but dark forces lurking everywhere that have

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Speaker 2: a very concrete political agenda that they're trying to push.

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Speaker 2: But it really that's not really the case of government workers,

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Speaker 2: Isn't it exactly right?

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Speaker 1: It's not. I mean, you know, there are surveys that

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Speaker 1: show that government workers lean left in their politics, but

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Speaker 1: most of the things they do simply are not political.

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Speaker 1: And I think, you know a lot of Americans gripe

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Speaker 1: about bureaucrats, but when I read the prescriptions here, I

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Speaker 1: think is making these people, you know, appointed on the

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Speaker 1: basis of their politics, on their loyalty to the present.

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Speaker 1: Is that going to make services better or is it

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Speaker 1: going to make things worse? It seems to me it's

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Speaker 1: likely to make things worse.

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Speaker 2: The third thing is defend our nation's sovereignty, borders and

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Speaker 2: bounty against global threats. Help me understand that.

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Speaker 1: It's a little opaque.

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Speaker 2: I think that means a couple Also, what is bounty.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's a lofty term they want to use to

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Speaker 1: make this seem maybe a little bit.

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Speaker 2: More patriotic or old school or something.

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Speaker 1: I think that means first of all, borders, so it

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Speaker 1: means closing the border. It means reducing immigration, both legal

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Speaker 1: and I legal. There's a sense that there are too

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Speaker 1: many people coming into the country through whatever means. So

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Speaker 1: that means fewer visas, making it harder to immigrate. Those

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Speaker 1: are things that they value. And it also means a

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Speaker 1: kind of existential conflict with China. So throughout you see

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Speaker 1: the sense that China is a threat that Americans don't grasp.

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Speaker 1: They don't see how big a threat China is, and

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Speaker 1: it has to be confronted economically, culturally, and if necessary,

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Speaker 1: militarily as well.

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Speaker 2: And finally, secure are God given individual rights to live

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Speaker 2: freely what our Constitution calls the blessings of liberty. So

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Speaker 2: how do they view liberty because a lot of people

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Speaker 2: think that liberties are being taken away, not granted to

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Speaker 2: American citizens.

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Speaker 1: That's right. There's this chilling quote where Kevin Roberts, who's

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Speaker 1: the head of the Heritage Foundation which convened this, says you,

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Speaker 1: liberty is doing not just what we want, but what

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Speaker 1: we ought. So it's libert or willing. And I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is not liberty. And I think the way most

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Speaker 1: people understand it, it's using the federal government to tell

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Speaker 1: you how to live.

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Speaker 2: Where do you see the germ of this coming from.

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Speaker 2: Obviously we talked about a backlash against I guess pluralism, globalization,

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Speaker 2: equal rights right, and I think gender roles, DEI, affirmative action,

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Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, trying to level the playing field

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Speaker 2: in our society. But what else is really fomented this?

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Speaker 2: In your view having read.

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Speaker 1: It, yeah, I think it has a very long history.

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Speaker 1: And so you know DEI is a boogeyman often in

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Speaker 1: the document, but you go further back and their concerns

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Speaker 1: about you know, Title nine, for example, and they want

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Speaker 1: to use Title nine to enforce certain priorities. But also

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Speaker 1: they're very skeptical of it. They're skeptical of the Equal

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Speaker 1: Employment Opportunity Commission, they're skeptical of the New Deal itself. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a sense that over the last century

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Speaker 1: things have happened to change the way America works that

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Speaker 1: have taken us away from the Christian founding. They see

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Speaker 1: and they want to reclaim things in that way.

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Speaker 2: What if we told you it was possible to prevent, manage,

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Speaker 2: your cure all disease by the end of the century.

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Speaker 2: The Chans Zuckerberg Initiative is advancing biomedical research and leveraging

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Speaker 2: AI to change medicine for decades to come by bringing

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Speaker 2: together science, tech researchers, and engineers a better future for everyone.

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Speaker 2: Learn more at CZI dot com that's CZI dot com,

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Speaker 2: or follow them on social media. You talk about Russell

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Speaker 2: Vote casually mentioned he's a self described Christian nationalist, So

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Speaker 2: can you talk about what Christian nationalists believe and how

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Speaker 2: his principles bled into this document.

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Speaker 1: You know, they believe that this is a Christian nation.

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Speaker 1: They believe that.

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Speaker 2: Well, can you explain why they believe that?

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Speaker 1: You know, they look at the founders and they say,

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Speaker 1: many of the founders were Christians. They see language about God,

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Speaker 1: and they simply believe that since, you know, since European

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Speaker 1: settlers arrived in the in what is now the United States,

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Speaker 1: they would bring Christian ideas and that is the foundation

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Speaker 1: of the country. And they think that that has always

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Speaker 1: been in the DNA. But we've started to drift away

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Speaker 1: from that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so, how does this fit in with sort

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Speaker 2: of Donald Trump's seeming obsession with anti Semitism and sort

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Speaker 2: of Jewish American citizens.

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Speaker 1: You know, they often use this language about a Judeo

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Speaker 1: Christian society, and they talk about, for example, a biblically

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Speaker 1: grounded vision of the family. And so it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit broader, but very much it's focused around Christianity. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, you know, they think that there should be

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Speaker 1: all people should have a sabbath. You know, they should

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Speaker 1: not have to work for at least a day a week,

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Speaker 1: and if they do, they should have to get time

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Speaker 1: and a half. This is an idea that maybe could

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Speaker 1: have appeal across the spectrum, but it's phrasing these very

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Speaker 1: religious ways, and they say, we assume this would be Sunday,

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Speaker 1: but it could, for example, be Friday evening to Saturday

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Speaker 1: evening if for somebody of a different faith. So there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of accommodation. But the norm is very

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Speaker 1: much Christianity, and so much of the policy stems from Christianity.

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Speaker 2: Can you talk about the dark side of Christian nationalism

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Speaker 2: for people who are perhaps unaware of the sort of

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Speaker 2: nefarious ramifications of this kind of ideology.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's very much about telling people how to live,

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Speaker 1: and so it means shutting down abortion rights. It means

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Speaker 1: pushing women towards motherhood and out of the workplace. Not

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Speaker 1: out of the workplace, but away from the workplace. It

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Speaker 1: means knocking down, you know that many of the changes

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Speaker 1: we have seen in the last few decades of giving

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Speaker 1: women more leeway and more rights. It means discouraging things

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Speaker 1: like divorce. It means schools that are tutoring children in

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Speaker 1: biblical principles and that are not necessarily teaching things like evolution.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's a you know, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of ideas that are not popular, and it's a

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Speaker 1: very totalizing way to approach.

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Speaker 2: Life, but it is popular in some quarters. Can you

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Speaker 2: talk about where Project twenty twenty five resonated and the

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Speaker 2: segment of the population who might embrace this, if not wholeheartedly,

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Speaker 2: then half heartedly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that this vision of society,

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Speaker 1: and this the kind of backlash we're talking about, is

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Speaker 1: really core to Donald Trump's appeal. It is people who

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Speaker 1: feel like they are losing status in society. They feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a white man in particular, don't have the

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Speaker 1: same kind of status they once did. The Christians are persecuted,

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Speaker 1: that white people are persecuted. And for those people, Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump is very popular. They want to see this kind

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Speaker 1: of vision and they're willing to follow a plan that

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Speaker 1: offers some of these things. Now, I do think that

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Speaker 1: that's a little bit. I think it's a bit of

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Speaker 1: a shallow appeal. I think people have this really emotional

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Speaker 1: connection to it, but when they get to some of

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Speaker 1: the details of Project twenty twenty five, I don't think

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Speaker 1: they're going to be as fond of some of them.

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Speaker 2: What do you mean emotional appeal on principle for some

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Speaker 2: of these ideas.

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Speaker 1: I think that just the concept that that something's been

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Speaker 1: taken from you. We're going to put things back the

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Speaker 1: way they were at some point, and this is often

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Speaker 1: left quite, you know, a little bit vague. At some

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Speaker 1: point things started to change in this country and they're

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Speaker 1: not the way they once were, and this is often done.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of vague way, it's kind of a new window.

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Speaker 2: And what do you think they're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think they have to be studiously they because

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Speaker 1: no one wants to say things were better before the

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Speaker 1: Civil Rights Act, when on occasion we've seen politicians say

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Speaker 1: that it has gone very poorly for them, so they

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Speaker 1: have to sort of cloak it in this vagueness. This

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Speaker 1: is why when we say make America great again, Trump

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Speaker 1: never tells us exactly when it was that America was

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Speaker 1: great that he wants to go back to.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about sort of you talked about the

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Speaker 2: inherent sexism. What about the inherent racism of this document?

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Speaker 2: Clearly it is anti immigrant, right unless they're white immigrants,

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Speaker 2: white Christian immigrants, right, So can you talk about how

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Speaker 2: you interpreted the inherent racism that these people incorporated in

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Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 1: I think was a real paternalistic attitude and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the document. You know, they say that we need

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Speaker 1: to restore the family, and they say in you know,

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Speaker 1: for example, in poor black communities, they're not allowed enough

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Speaker 1: fathers living in the home. We need to encourage that.

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Speaker 1: You have in the chap on the Department of Housing

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Speaker 1: and Urban Development a sense that, you know, things like

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Speaker 1: housing vouchers or public housing are creating a culture of

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Speaker 1: dependency and people are not willing to help themselves. So

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Speaker 1: in some ways, these are things we've heard from the right.

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Speaker 2: I want to say, and I think there's some people,

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Speaker 2: even who are moderate who can say I could get

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Speaker 2: on board with the need to have more involved fathers

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Speaker 2: in all communities.

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Speaker 1: Back Obama was a big proponent of right.

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Speaker 2: So at its face, it's not that offensive. But is

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Speaker 2: it imbued with more sort of racist dog whistles or

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Speaker 2: innuendo that would be interpreted by the average person.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of that is not necessarily there.

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Speaker 1: They do keep us a very sort of color blind

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Speaker 1: approach at a lot of places. But what you see is

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Speaker 1: a disparate impact on people. If you start directing aid

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Speaker 1: on these ways, if you start putting it through religious groups,

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Speaker 1: if you take away things like the EEOC, you're going

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Speaker 1: to have disparate impact, and they say disparate impact is

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Speaker 1: a you know, a false concept that ought to be

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Speaker 1: thrown out.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, let's talk about that, because is there much

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Speaker 2: discussion on the impact of all these proposals and policies

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Speaker 2: and is there any kind of appreciation or acceptance of

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Speaker 2: how these things could go or wry.

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Speaker 1: No, I would say there's a little bit of a gap.

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Speaker 1: They talk about as sort of the shining future they imagine,

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Speaker 1: and they talk about the policies that they are, but

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Speaker 1: there's a gap in between about how exactly these things work.

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Speaker 1: And I think often they fail to really grapple with

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Speaker 1: the impacts of the things they suggest. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: they complain about politicization in the executive branch, and then

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Speaker 1: they offer a plan to politicize it that seems to

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Speaker 1: cut against what you want. They complain that Congress has

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Speaker 1: abdicated too much power and is you know, no longer

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Speaker 1: as a sort of as it should bete and they

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Speaker 1: want to give more power to the executive branch.

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Speaker 2: So they say Congress has abdicated it, but they don't

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Speaker 2: say the executive branch has seized it.

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Speaker 1: No, they one of the executive branch to seize much more.

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Speaker 2: Do you think Donald Trump is in lockstep with a

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Speaker 2: lot of these policies or do you think he simply

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Speaker 2: sees it as a means to an end, as a

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Speaker 2: means to a massive power grab by him and the

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Speaker 2: people around him who agree with him.

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Speaker 1: I think it's symbiosis. So for Trump, he gets trained employees,

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Speaker 1: you know, trained staffers who are loyal to his project,

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Speaker 1: who are ready to go on day one. He has

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Speaker 1: a whole policy agenda and he has ways, for example,

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Speaker 1: to clear out the deep state that he hates, and

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Speaker 1: to reak retribution by using the Justice Department, newly in

436
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 1: his control, as a tool of retribution. And for them,

437
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 1: they have a vessel. I mean they understand that these

438
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: things are hard to do, that they've been conservative priorities

439
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: for a long time and they haven't happened, and they

440
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 1: see Trump as someone who's willing to sort of force

441
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 1: it through. So each side gets something they want, but

442
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,439
Speaker 1: they're looking way beyond Trump. I mean, this is a

443
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 1: plan for decades to come, and Trump is just the

444
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: first stage of that.

445
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, tell us more about that. What is the

446
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 2: long view for the architects of Project twenty twenty five.

447
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,160
Speaker 1: They understand that the firste hundred days are very important,

448
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: as we've seen, they understand the first two years before

449
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: the midterms are very important. They want to get as

450
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: far as they can toward that. But the changes they're

451
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 1: making are not going to be reversed no matter, you know,

452
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: how Democrats do in the midterms or who the next

453
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 1: president is, because you can't rehire thousands of federal employees.

454
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 1: There's going to be so much brain drain. There's going

455
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: to be programs that are shut down. You know, there's

456
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: an end to basically all climate change research is kind

457
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: of plated here. Those are things that are hard to

458
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 1: put back. You can't rehire all the generals they've fired,

459
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: which is another Project twenty twenty five priority. So the

460
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: next president will inherit a government that is much smaller

461
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,199
Speaker 1: and is reoriented a lot, and they will have to

462
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: grapple with that rather than what Trump received on January twentieth.

463
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: Could you get on board with anything that was in

464
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five in terms of you know, so

465
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: called waste, fraud and abuse. I think it's so interesting

466
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: they're you know, getting rid of fraud by getting rid

467
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 2: of the people who are basically responsible for recognizing, recognizing

468
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: and doing something about it. Right.

469
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean people talk about waste, fraud, and abuse,

470
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 1: and obviously nobody is in favor of those things. But

471
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: it's a lot harder to find that than it seems

472
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: as Elon Musk has discovered. It's not just sitting there

473
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: waiting to be discovered. You know, I think there are

474
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,120
Speaker 1: some really interesting ideas in here, and I think, for example,

475
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: they're concerned about driving at birth rates, this pro natalist view,

476
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: but there's places that you can see, you know, crossover

477
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: with the left. They think duelas should be available to

478
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: all mothers. For example, they think that childcare should be

479
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,920
Speaker 1: more easily avaiable. They advocate for childcare in the workplace, saying,

480
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 1: you know, parents shouldn't have to be so far away

481
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:36,840
Speaker 1: from their children.

482
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 2: They want to give money to women or families where

483
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: they're six or more children.

484
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 1: M There's all these ways to encouraging and you know,

485
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 1: these are ideas that I think the left would like.

486
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: Often that they have diagnoses that I think are reasonable,

487
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 1: it's whether the prescription works, and that's often where the

488
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: problem is.

489
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: Give me an example of that.

490
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think talking about Congress is a

491
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,479
Speaker 1: great one. Congress is very broken. If you talk political

492
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 1: scientists or former members of Congress from either party, they'll

493
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 1: tell you that it's just that giving the president unfettered

494
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 1: power everything else isn't going to fix that problem. It's

495
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: not going to solve the problems in our politics.

496
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 2: I know that you right that the architects of Project

497
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five sought the year twenty twenty four as

498
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 2: a critical moment in time comparable to seventeen seventy six

499
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: or eighteen sixty. Can you describe that? And I guess

500
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 2: they look at it as a huge and dramatic inflection

501
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: point for American society.

502
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:38,719
Speaker 1: That's right. I mean, I think that they phrase it

503
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: this way tells us how important it is to them

504
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: and how sweeping their plan is. They're trying to meet

505
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: a moment like that. Kevin Roberts, the head of Heritage,

506
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: said last summer that we're in the midst of a

507
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: second American revolution and bloodless if the Left allows it

508
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: to be. I think that's pretty chilling, and it also explains,

509
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: I think why it's so important to pay attention to

510
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: this and understand what they want to do and understand

511
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: the methods they've layed out.

512
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: I would probably normally save this towards the end of

513
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: our interview, but you know, as I hear this, it

514
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 2: feels like a runaway train, right, And I think so

515
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 2: many people are wondering how can we stop this train?

516
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: And there don't seem to be the tools at our

517
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: disposal to say, hey, we don't want this society. And

518
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: in fact, I think only thirteen percent and who knows

519
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 2: how deep the understanding is of this plan approve of

520
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: Project twenty twenty five in America. But it is happening

521
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: at full speed. So how do you stop this or

522
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 2: how do you reverse course? If, in fact, so much

523
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: damage is going to be done in the first two

524
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 2: years of this administration.

525
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: I think it's a really tough question. I mean, I

526
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: think the first thing is understanding it, and I think

527
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: that is something we've missed. I think Democrats don't seem

528
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: to be looking ahead. I think a lot of the

529
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: population has been shocked by things that have happened. And

530
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things I wanted to do

531
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: in the book was explain to people where things are

532
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 1: going so that they can look ahead, and so they're

533
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: a little bit less surprised and they can start figuring

534
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: out how they want to respond. And I think that's

535
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: valuable for people who agree with Projects twenty twenty five too.

536
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: I think it's important to understand this. It's an important

537
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: part of being an American citizen to see where our

538
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: country is headed.

539
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 2: That's a pretty unsatisfying answer. I having to be honest

540
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 2: with you. I'm talk to me, so I agree. Understanding

541
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: it is the first step. But what can be done

542
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 2: at all? Or is that something you actually didn't focus

543
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: on in this book.

544
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: It's not something I focused on it.

545
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: Maybe you need to do a second book, right.

546
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: Being the sequel? Right? I mean, I think there was

547
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: so much in the document that I felt like I

548
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: had to get. I had to explain all of those

549
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: and break it down and figure out how to respond

550
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: to it as a such a vast topic too, you know,

551
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: I think people need to understand that what is going

552
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 1: to come later is not going to be returned to

553
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: where things were. We're not going to go back to

554
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: pre Project twenty twenty five. We have to rethink what

555
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: American government should be like. I think I've thought a

556
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 1: lot about the post Watergate reforms and whether we might

557
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: see something like those sorts of reforms to the government,

558
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: you know, after Trump leave's office.

559
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the Elon Musk of it all and

560
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: how he fits into Project twenty twenty five. How does

561
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,399
Speaker 2: he You.

562
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: Know, he's not contemplated and the speed with which he's

563
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: acted is something that has come to as a surprise

564
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: to me. The things he's done have not. It's really

565
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: been the space.

566
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: Is he operating with this playbook?

567
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: He is very much If you look at what he's doing,

568
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: he's following what they're doing it. He's doing it a

569
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: lot faster they you know, they these are people who

570
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: have served in government and thought really hard about how

571
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: they could work using the laws, using what's in place

572
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: to achieve what they wanted, and Musk kind of just

573
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: buldoze through it. He's made those things happen a lot faster.

574
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: But he's working closely with Russell Vote, and I think

575
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: for people like Russell Vote and other Project twenty twenty

576
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: five architects, Musk is just a vessel. In the same

577
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: way that Trump is a means to an end, Musk

578
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: is a means to an end as well.

579
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: They approve of what he's doing though right.

580
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: They do, absolutely. I think they're they're driving it. They're

581
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: encouraging him, they're pointing him where to go.

582
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: Is saying, now though, that DOGE will produce only fifteen

583
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: percent of the savings that promised, and the New York

584
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: Times is saying that estimate is inflated with errors and guesswork.

585
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: So how can they be pleased with the results if

586
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 2: they're not really, I guess, dismantling the deep state as

587
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: significantly as they had hoped.

588
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 1: You know, I think the efficiency is something he talks

589
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: about a lot. It's not their concern. Their concern is

590
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: getting rid of the employees. And we see these people

591
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: leaving every day. We see them. Russell Vote said he

592
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: wanted to put the federal bureaucracy in trauma, and I

593
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: think we see that happening all the time. Federal workers

594
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: are in fact in trauma. They're contemplating the exits, they're

595
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: being forced out. Just today, I see that the federal

596
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: watchdog in charge of employees is no longer going to

597
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: be fighting these dismissals. And so this progress is happening.

598
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: Even if they don't save money, they know that they're

599
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: putting things under the President's control, and they're moving things

600
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: toward this Christian society. Anything else is just kind of

601
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: collateral damage.

602
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 2: So who will replace all these people? There will have

603
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: to be a litmus test for your religious beliefs and

604
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: your loyalty to Donald Trump.

605
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: Right. They want people chosen on whether they're true to

606
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: the president, whether they are longtime MAGA believers. And you know,

607
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 1: we saw for example, people being question for their jobs

608
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: in the administration. Do you believe the twenty twenty election

609
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: was stolen? If you say no, you don't get a job.

610
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: These are the kind of tests that we're going to get.

611
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: Okay, dumb question, But isn't that against the law.

612
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that are ostensibly against the law,

613
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: and if you just do them and try to get

614
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: away with them, you can do that. And one thing

615
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: that the architects of Project twenty twenty five want to

616
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: do is push things to Supreme Court. So, for example,

617
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: it's illegal for the president to take control of or

618
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: to fire you know, members of the National Labor Relations

619
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: Board or the Federal Elections.

620
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 2: Commission aren't the chairman of the FED.

621
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: For example, but they want to they they believe that

622
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: it's unconstitutional if they can push that the Supreme Court.

623
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: They think they now have a conservative majority that will

624
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: rule with them and overturn ninety five years of president

625
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: About this, well.

626
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: Let's talk about how they view the judiciary branch of

627
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: the American government. What is discussed in Project twenty twenty

628
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: five about that.

629
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: They almost don't pay attention to any of the lower branches.

630
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: You know, we've seen the President Jdvan tell these people

631
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: attacking federal judges directly. The architects of Project twenty twenty

632
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: five mostly see the Supreme Court as allies, and they

633
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: think if they can push these cases to them, they're

634
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: going to get favorable rulings and be able to work

635
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: towards society they want.

636
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: And what do you think do you think the Supreme

637
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: Court will rubber stamp a lot of the stuff that's

638
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: being done, or do you think that they will say, hey,

639
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: wait a minute, this has gone too far and uphold

640
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 2: the decisions the lower courts may be making when they

641
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: are against what Donald Trump wants to do.

642
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: It's really hard to know. We've seen sometimes the Supreme

643
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: Court go along with what seemed like very far fetched

644
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: arguments from Trump. I mean, you know, give immunity the

645
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: immunity exactly, and then we saw them more recently shooting

646
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: down as alien Enemies Act use. So it's a little

647
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: bit hard to tell. I think the question is, you know,

648
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: we know there are two to three votes who will

649
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: agree with almost anything he says. They know there are

650
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: three votes that will vote against almost anything he says.

651
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 1: And the question is where these people in the middle.

652
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: You know where John robertson, where Cunny Barrett come out?

653
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: Really, because she offended people with a recent decision, tell

654
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: us about that.

655
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: You know, she is somebody who the right has worked

656
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: so hard to get judges in place who will work

657
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,520
Speaker 1: along with them, and I think you know those efforts

658
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: go right along with Projects twenty twenty five. They were

659
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: very upset about somebody like a David Suiter proving more

660
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: liberal than they expected. And so when they see a

661
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: judge who doesn't simply rubber stamp what Trump says, they

662
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: see this as disloyalty. So there's an implicit idea that

663
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: the judiciary should be listening to the president, that it

664
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't be an independent check, even if that's not something

665
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: that is directly stated.

666
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: This is so friggin' terrifying. If you want to get

667
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 2: smarter Every morning with a breakdown of the news and

668
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: fascinating takes on health and wellness and pop culture. Sign

669
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: up for our daily newsletter, Wake Up Call by going

670
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 2: to Katiecuric dot com. SO Project twenty twenty five calls

671
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 2: for drastic tax cuts, the elimination of federal regulations, massive

672
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: reduction in the federal workforce, but also is proposing a

673
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: slew of initiatives that would need to be paid for

674
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: and administered by you, guessed at the federal government. So

675
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 2: how do they reconcile just replacing perhaps one bureaucracy with

676
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 2: one that is closer to them ideologically.

677
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: I don't think they do. I think it's a real flaw.

678
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 1: And although, for example, they say a recurring theme because

679
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: it's organized by department, there's a chapter on each department,

680
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: is that the writers say that we need to get

681
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: rid of many federal employees, we need to hire some

682
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 1: more in this agency, we need to expand the Defense Department,

683
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: we need to expand the Department of Homeland Security. So

684
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I think there's a real flaw there, and they don't

685
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: explain how they're going to administer a lot of the things.

686
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,520
Speaker 1: If they have cleared out the experts and they're bringing

687
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: people who don't have any training in these things.

688
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 2: Let's talk about climate change. Since it is Earth Day today,

689
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 2: what is the document stance on global warming?

690
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 1: They don't say that global warming is a hoax. They

691
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: just don't want to deal with it. So any climate

692
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: related research would be shut down, Climate warnings would be

693
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: thrown out, environmental regulation would be trashed across the board.

694
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 1: So that's air pollution, water pollution, but that's also you know,

695
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: greenhouse gas issues. They think that the Interior Department should

696
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: basically be in charge of getting more oil and gas extracted.

697
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: Everything is arranged around fossil fuels.

698
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 2: But is protecting the earth and clean air, clean water?

699
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 2: Is that not a Christian value?

700
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: You know, you would think so. And the story they

701
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: tell I think is very strange. They say, back in

702
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: the seventies, the air was dirty, the water was dirty.

703
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: We cleaned things up. We should celebrate that. Why are

704
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: environmental that is always telling us how bad things are.

705
00:34:58,600 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: We need to look at all the things that are

706
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: really goot and we need to focus on things that

707
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: we can measure. And they say, you know, we can't

708
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: measure climate change well enough and so we just shouldn't

709
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,520
Speaker 1: worry about it, and I think that's it's very hard

710
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: to grasp.

711
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 2: One of the more radical proposals you highlight is the

712
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: privatization of NOAH, which is the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration,

713
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 2: which provides essential weather data. What do they have against

714
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: that agency?

715
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of things there. One is that

716
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: NOAH oversees a lot of climate research, and they you know,

717
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: they believe that that that's pernicious, that it's part of

718
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: the sort of leftist ideology that's pushing things. So they

719
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: want to put some of these things in the private sector,

720
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: and that's been a conservative party for a while. There

721
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,879
Speaker 1: was an attempt to privatize it in the first Trump

722
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 1: administration that didn't get very far. So you know, there's

723
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: an element of the private sector can do things better,

724
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: and also an element of we've got to get these

725
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: climate things out of the way and not be telling

726
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: people about this because it will make them believe the

727
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: climate change is a problem.

728
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: But doesn't know what does so much in terms of

729
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: you're saying they want to privatize sort of the National

730
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 2: Weather Service and telling people when storms are going to

731
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: be happening, and they want to erase sort of the

732
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 2: impact climate change may have on these weather events.

733
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: Right, if you're worried about hurricanes, you know, if you

734
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 1: live in a hurricane zone, you want the National Hurricane

735
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,479
Speaker 1: Center to be doing its best work, and you wanted

736
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: to be thinking about climate change because climate change affects hurricanes.

737
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: If we shut these things down, it's going to you know,

738
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: it's going to directly affect people's lives. It's going to

739
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: it threatens their very safety.

740
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: And also just about development, you know, if you want

741
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 2: to think about flooding or see exact levels and all

742
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: kinds of things that not only impact sort of quality

743
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: of life, but really life and death decisions, right for both,

744
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 2: you know, on the personal level and on the societal level, right.

745
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: Right, you know, they say, well, technology will fix these things,

746
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: but I think it's whistling past the graveyard.

747
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 2: How will technology fix these things?

748
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: They don't tell us that.

749
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,400
Speaker 2: I want to dig into the family first toenda a

750
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 2: little bit more, because it's super fascinating and kind of

751
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: the trad wife's dream. Right. One of the mandates is

752
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 2: restore the family is the centerpiece of American life. But

753
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 2: they have a very specific image of what a family

754
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 2: should be at a time where families have become increasingly diverse, right, right,

755
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 2: So talk about that, and you know, they have this

756
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 2: very Ossie and Harriet, yes, throwback vision of American families

757
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: and American life. And you say they want to push

758
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: women away from the workforce, but not completely get them

759
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: out of the workforce. Can you explain sort of how

760
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: they view what is sort of ideally this American family.

761
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: You know, for them, the highest calling for a woman's

762
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: motherhood and everything should be rerented around that. They want

763
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: women to be having more children. They want them to

764
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 1: be spending as much time as they can with the children,

765
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: so that ideally means being at home for the children.

766
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: Failing that, they should, you know, and they should have

767
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: childcare on site where they're working. The father should be working.

768
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 1: The father should be the bread winner. They should be

769
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: the focus of the family. The children should be gender conforming,

770
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: so their boys or their girls, they you know, wear

771
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 1: blue or pink. Trans people are sort of pushed into

772
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 1: the shadows. They're skeptical of same sex marriage. They don't

773
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: talk about overturning the precedents, but they say, and this

774
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: is not true, but they claim that same sex marriage

775
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: has higher divorce rates. I spend a long time trying

776
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 1: to track down how they justify this. There's no data

777
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 1: to back it up. You know, it's a whole program,

778
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: and it's a very old school I'd.

779
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: Say, yeah, and so anti women and I don't know,

780
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: just really bizarre.

781
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: You know they I think there are women involved who

782
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: would say that this is in fact, this is pro women,

783
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: this is this is a.

784
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: House so I mean, I think pro women is being

785
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 2: able to make the choice right.

786
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 1: It's I mean, this is very much this tad wife aesthetic.

787
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: As you say, you know, they think that women will

788
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: be happier in the circumstance.

789
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 2: Yes, or what was that woman's name, something Morgan, Marabelle Morgan.

790
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: Do you remember her?

791
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: Oh?

792
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,359
Speaker 2: No, I think she used to say you should greet

793
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: your husband when he comes home from work wrapped in

794
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: saranne wrap. I just remember, anybody remember Marabelle Morgan here? Anyway,

795
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: maybe google her and see if I'm right? Am I

796
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 2: we interrupt this podcast to get a little more context here.

797
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 2: Marabelle says you should greet your husband at the door

798
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: wearing nothing but saranne rap. I was right.

799
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: Wow, good recall, Yeah.

800
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 2: I'll take famous anti feminists for two thousand, please, Alex right.

801
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: I mean it is just so such a throwback and

802
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: honestly so insulting to women.

803
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: You know, they talk about it, And what did your.

804
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: Wife say about this when you came and said, wow,

805
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: you won't believe what it says here?

806
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: She was not a fan. You know, you talk about

807
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: gender ideology, they say all these things left to pushing

808
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: gender ideology and anything that is sort of contra their vision.

809
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: But I think they fail to understand how much what

810
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: their offering is an ideology too. They don't recognize that.

811
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: Well, when you say gender ideology, I mean what does

812
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 2: that mean exactly?

813
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: So that means, for example, the idea that you could

814
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: be non gender conforming, it means LGBTQ people in general,

815
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: all of these things they see not as you know,

816
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: not as real people who exist in the world, but

817
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: simply as a figment of leftist ideology.

818
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: There are currently forty Republican women serving in Congress at

819
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 2: the moment, eight women in cabinet level positions in the

820
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: current Trump administration. So how do they reconcile that would

821
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: they like to see those women just go home and

822
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: take care of their children or grandchildren.

823
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: They don't reconcile it. It's another one of these flaws,

824
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: you know. I think there are a lot of prominent

825
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: women in the White House and in the conservative movement

826
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: right now. The contributors to Project twenty twenty five, though,

827
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: are much more male than a lot of that, and

828
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: the sort of leading architects are very much male. I

829
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 1: think if somebody like Roger Severino, who wrote the chapter

830
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: on Health and Human Services and writes about a lot

831
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 1: of this, his wife, Carrie Severino, is a very prominent

832
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: lawyer in the conservative movement. She's been involved in confirming

833
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: judges for Trump. And so even as they're pushing these ideas,

834
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,280
Speaker 1: there are people in the orbit who don't really conform

835
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 1: to the vision.

836
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: They say, so what you know, you said that you

837
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,840
Speaker 2: didn't really know what the solution was. In terms of

838
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 2: pushing back. Is part of it providing an alternate vision

839
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: for America by say Democrats are people who are more

840
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 2: progressive in their thinking. You know.

841
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: Part of the reason I think it's unsatisfying is that

842
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: there are ideas that are more popular. A lot of

843
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: the things that the Democrats have been pushing are things

844
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: that pull much better, And I think people haven't understood

845
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: the details of Project twenty twenty five or they don't

846
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: believe it. So during the campaign there was polling that

847
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: showed Project twenty twenty five was deeply unpopular, but people

848
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 1: just didn't believe that Trump would do these things. They said,

849
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: you know, yes, I don't if Trump did, you know,

850
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: banned abortion entirely, for example, I wouldn't like that. But

851
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: there's no chance he's going to do this. And there's

852
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 1: a whole list of those things. So I think when

853
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: people understand what it actually means, there will be more pushback.

854
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: But if they see it simply as a kind of

855
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 1: fuzzy pro family agenda, they may underestimate just how sweeping

856
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: and radical it is.

857
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 2: But what do you think of this notion of an

858
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 2: alternative vision for America that perhaps maybe isn't as progressive

859
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 2: as some of these policies and actions were during previous administrations,

860
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:41,280
Speaker 2: but that represents something that is certainly far less radical

861
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: than this few of America.

862
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think there is a broad consensus

863
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 1: around a lot of things. I think most people understand

864
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: that trans people exist, and they may have hesitations about

865
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 1: specific policies, but they certainly don't want to write them

866
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 1: out of the language of the government. There are people

867
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: who you know, oppose abortion on moral grounds, but understand

868
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: that there's a danger in banning it nationwide need access

869
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: to healthcare. They're people who you know, something like medicaid

870
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 1: is an example here. Medicaid is wildly popular and people

871
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: on the right have been trying to cut it for decades.

872
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: It's something that people like. So some of the things

873
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: that are already there, and I think there's a consensus

874
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 1: that is just looking sort of to be marshaled and

875
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: organized around an alternative.

876
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: Do you think this got enough attention during the campaign?

877
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: I know many of my followers were saying, why aren't

878
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,320
Speaker 2: you talking more about Project twenty twenty five. At that point,

879
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 2: I felt like everybody was talking about it. But you

880
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: say people were talking about it but not taking it seriously.

881
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and I would count myself in this.

882
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: I had looked at it, and I looked at bits

883
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 1: and pieces. You know, you read some of the individual

884
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: policy points. You're writing about an issue, or you're covering

885
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: issue and you get a little bit of it, or

886
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: there's something you're passionate about it has to be read

887
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: as a whole, and that's very hard to do. You know,

888
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: this is nearly a thousand pages. It's an often very

889
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: technical language. You know. One thing I hope to do

890
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: in the book is to make these things more legible

891
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: and pull out what is important and make put in

892
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: terms that people can understand.

893
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 2: So this is kind of the cliff Notes version of

894
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 2: twenty five.

895
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: Yes, I want people to understand what's important and how

896
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: it all works without having to weigh through a lot

897
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: of technical language.

898
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 2: Well, David Graham, you've ruined my day. I'm very sorry,

899
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: but thank you, and I think this is a really

900
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 2: important book for people to read if they want to

901
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,200
Speaker 2: understand what's going on, because you really can't come up

902
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: with solutions or an antidote until you figure out what

903
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 2: the game plan is, so you can not only decide

904
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: what your defense is going to be, but what your

905
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: offense is going to be as well. Definitely, thank you

906
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: so much, Thank you, Thanks for listening everyone. If you

907
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 2: have a question for me, a subject you want us

908
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 2: to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about

909
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: how you navigate this crazy world, reach out send me

910
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 2: a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from

911
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 2: you next Us is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie

912
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 2: Couric Media. The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and

913
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 2: Courtney Ltz. Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our

914
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: producers are Adriana Fazio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed

915
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,480
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