Speaker 1: Personally listening Feldsman.
Speaker 2: After Valentine's Day this past week, I decided it would
Speaker 2: be fun to do a post Valentine's episode about dating apps.
Speaker 2: I'm bringing on dating coach and truly a dating app expert, Erica,
Speaker 2: to share her no nonsense ways to dating in today's culture.
Speaker 2: Then I'm bringing on my good friend Jamie to share
Speaker 2: a little about our dating app experiences and what our
Speaker 2: dating profiles look like.
Speaker 3: And potentially judge each other for them.
Speaker 2: So let's get down to some love business. Erica, thank
Speaker 2: you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 1: Thank you? I'm good. I've been really excited to talk
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: You know, I've been following you on Instagram for a
Speaker 2: while now, and I just love what you are doing.
Speaker 2: I love it everything that you're doing on Instagram. It's
Speaker 2: this no nonsense dating advice, which I feel like we
Speaker 2: need more of.
Speaker 3: So amazing. Just what you're doing is amazing.
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that I was saying to someone earlier today.
Speaker 1: It's like most of my advice is pretty common sense.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you don't know ask say the thing
Speaker 1: that's on your mind. But when you're dating, it's really
Speaker 1: easy for common sense to go out the window because
Speaker 1: we have such a narrow view of things and we're
Speaker 1: so in the situation that we can't see anything outside
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Well, and honestly, common sense is just hard these days.
Speaker 2: We all have a different version of it and.
Speaker 1: It's not common Actually, maybe it's like uncommon sense.
Speaker 2: I was just having that conversation the other day where
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, we just really don't have common
Speaker 2: sense anymore. So sometimes being reminded of the very small
Speaker 2: things is so important.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, I appreciate the compliment, so thank you.
Speaker 3: Of course. Now let's get into it.
Speaker 4: Let's dating.
Speaker 2: You talk about dating apps all the time because most
Speaker 2: people are on dating apps, so we're.
Speaker 3: Gonna start with a very hot topic.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 2: Do you think we need dating apps or can we
Speaker 2: meet people in real life?
Speaker 1: Oh? We need dating apps because look, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: had TikTok actually been removed, once you get used to
Speaker 1: having a thing in your life, it would have been
Speaker 1: very hard. I don't do TikTok, so I didn't really
Speaker 1: it didn't affect me, but it would have been really
Speaker 1: hard to go back to a life where something you
Speaker 1: know exists no longer exists. And so maybe pre twenty
Speaker 1: twelve when Tinder came out, I would have said, what
Speaker 1: is this new fangled? Absolutely not, But now that it's here,
Speaker 1: it has actually provided a crutch, for better or for worse,
Speaker 1: so that people are not as good at approaching people
Speaker 1: in person, and so without the dating apps, many couples
Speaker 1: would not meet. So yes, we need them.
Speaker 3: Oh I love that. I think that's a good perspective
Speaker 3: to have.
Speaker 2: Now with the dating apps, though, has come, as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: our lack of ability to connect with people.
Speaker 1: That's correct, which is I don't think that's just with
Speaker 1: dating apps. I think that's with technology in general. It's
Speaker 1: with everyone you know, behind their screens all the time.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm on the subway and I just watch
Speaker 1: everyone playing their candy crush and reading whatever, and it's
Speaker 1: like no one interacts anymore. Has nothing to do with
Speaker 1: the dating apps. I think it's just the day and
Speaker 1: age we live in.
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, And to your point, it has created a
Speaker 2: little bit of a crutch. You're like, well, I don't
Speaker 2: have to go outside of my house and go meet anybody.
Speaker 2: I can just sit here while I'm watching a movie
Speaker 2: and swipe left.
Speaker 1: And right exactly. I mean you eventually hopefully meet the
Speaker 1: person in real life. That is the point. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it has become easier and harder in many ways. Easier because,
Speaker 1: like you said, you don't have to get dressed, you
Speaker 1: don't have to put on pants. Harder in that because
Speaker 1: the dating apps are so prevalent in society, you have
Speaker 1: to one try harder to stand out, and two we'd
Speaker 1: through more people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I was on the phone with my
Speaker 2: mom earlier today and I was talking about I am
Speaker 2: on the dating apps, so I am a perfect specimen
Speaker 2: for this episode. While I was talking to my mom,
Speaker 2: and I had a few first dates in the last
Speaker 2: few weeks, and She's like, well, how.
Speaker 3: Are they going? Where are we looking?
Speaker 2: And I said, honestly, I don't know that we have
Speaker 2: much prospects. I could be wrong, but the way that
Speaker 2: it's looking, this is what it is.
Speaker 3: And it really is all about.
Speaker 2: Going through the experience and meeting people and understanding what
Speaker 2: you like and what you don't like.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's about putting in the time and energy
Speaker 1: and effort to doing the online dating apps. Well. I
Speaker 1: think unfortunately a lot of people think they're too good
Speaker 1: for it. I shouldn't have to put in the work.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have to do it. It should be easy. It
Speaker 1: should go nothing in life is Nothing in life that's
Speaker 1: actually important is easy. You know, if you get laid off,
Speaker 1: you're not going to just like put together a crummy
Speaker 1: cover letter and resume and then send out a few
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, well it didn't work because I
Speaker 1: won't have a job. Like So, why is it that
Speaker 1: people think it should be so easy? I would say
Speaker 1: choosing your you know, life partner is perhaps more important
Speaker 1: than choosing your next job. So I think most things
Speaker 1: in life that are important take time, energy and work.
Speaker 3: Yes, say very money they do.
Speaker 2: And you know, I also pay attention to I was
Speaker 2: telling her that it's very important to me with intention.
Speaker 2: We were talking about the filters of going and being
Speaker 2: on a dating app now and I want you to
Speaker 2: kind of talk through this with me and share your thoughts.
Speaker 2: So it's very important to me when I go to
Speaker 2: somebody's profile, did they take the time to fill it
Speaker 2: out where I'm actually learning stuff about them?
Speaker 3: Are they showing.
Speaker 2: Pictures that accurately represent their life? Are they sharing correct
Speaker 2: information about who they are?
Speaker 3: That's flter one.
Speaker 1: This is all just the filter, and that's all normal
Speaker 1: stuff you should be looking for. Yes, Because I always
Speaker 1: say lazy profile equals lazy dat. If someone writes no
Speaker 1: words or like a word for each prompt, they're not
Speaker 1: invested in this. And then later you're gonna wonder why
Speaker 1: the conversation's not going well, of course it's not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're showing you who they are, so you're having
Speaker 3: to be negative, But like.
Speaker 2: Come on, yeah, you know you're They're showing you this
Speaker 2: is the type of person there, and that's.
Speaker 1: Exactly this is what they're investing in this. And that's
Speaker 1: fine for them, it's not for you.
Speaker 3: Yes, So that's step one.
Speaker 2: Then step two is when the matching happens. I'm and
Speaker 2: I'm always paying attention. I don't want to. I don't
Speaker 2: have the time or energy to be twenty different people's
Speaker 2: pen pals. So are we going to sit here and
Speaker 2: at least get to know each other for a little bit,
Speaker 2: and then it's going to evolve into a real date
Speaker 2: situation where we're gonna meet in person. That's the second
Speaker 2: fil term paying attention too.
Speaker 1: Yes, And a lot of people will just beat around
Speaker 1: the bush or want to be pen pals, and some
Speaker 1: it's because they never want to meet, and some it's
Speaker 1: because they don't know when the appropriate time to ask
Speaker 1: somebody out is. Because for every person out there who
Speaker 1: wants to meet sooner, there's another out There's there's like
Speaker 1: alter ego, you who wants to chat for two once,
Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. And then there's someone at the other
Speaker 1: end thinking, well, I just asked the last person out
Speaker 1: within a week, and that person said no, that's not
Speaker 1: long enough. So now they're waiting too long to ask
Speaker 1: the next one out, even though she's the person who
Speaker 1: wants to meet sooner. And it's just like, no one wins.
Speaker 1: And so that's why I give a lot of scripts
Speaker 1: in what I share about how to move things along. Like,
Speaker 1: for example, if you're talking to someone for too long
Speaker 1: and you're like, okay, well it's good to move on.
Speaker 1: You can say one of a few things. You could
Speaker 1: just simply ask if they want to meet. You could
Speaker 1: also say I'm enjoying our conversation. Where should we go
Speaker 1: from here? Or that was a really good question, maybe
Speaker 1: easier to chat in person. Any of those should lead
Speaker 1: to a date. If it's going to lead to a.
Speaker 3: Date, yes, that oh gosh, I'm so happy you say that,
Speaker 3: because the.
Speaker 2: Pimpelling thing is what's super frustrating on dating apps, because
Speaker 2: you get on there with great intentions, when the constant
Speaker 2: pimpelling happens, you get very frustrated. Why do you think
Speaker 2: it is that people find themselves in this kind of
Speaker 2: rotating pin pal type situation?
Speaker 1: Again, I think most people are generally clueless. They don't
Speaker 1: know how to how or when to transition from that
Speaker 1: conversation to the date, and so if I can do
Speaker 1: anything to help people speed that up, I certainly will.
Speaker 1: I don't think people have I don't think i'm in general,
Speaker 1: I don't think people have some nefarious intentions to just
Speaker 1: waste your time on it. Some people do. Sure, some
Speaker 1: people are doing it for that validation. Oh look at me,
Speaker 1: I'm still desirable. But I never want to meet these people.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm just out of a relationship. I don't actually
Speaker 1: want a date. I just want to make sure people
Speaker 1: still like me. Yeah, of course there are some people
Speaker 1: out there like that. But on the whole, I think
Speaker 1: people generally do want to meet and they really just
Speaker 1: don't like. No one taught this skill in school. It's
Speaker 1: a new skill, and so people really just don't know.
Speaker 1: So I would say, give the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: That's why you're going to use your language to try
Speaker 1: to get it closer to a date, or just ask
Speaker 1: yourself and then you know from their answer, because they
Speaker 1: could either just not answer you, in which case there's
Speaker 1: clearly no date. They could ignore your suggestion of meeting,
Speaker 1: in which case they either didn't understand or have no
Speaker 1: interest in meeting, or they could grab it and run
Speaker 1: with it. You win either way because you know exactly
Speaker 1: what your next step is.
Speaker 3: It's the basic skill of communicating, which it is.
Speaker 1: But but again, maybe it's not basic, maybe it's not common,
Speaker 1: Maybe it's not basic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also have this step which I love and
Speaker 2: I've incorporated into my dating and it's been super helpful
Speaker 2: to find who really is a good communicator.
Speaker 3: Is the ask two questions and then make a statement.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, So tell everyone about it in
Speaker 1: case they don't help.
Speaker 3: Well, I want you to tell them you're the expert.
Speaker 3: You came up with it.
Speaker 1: I mean you you nailed it. So okay, So let's
Speaker 1: have a mock conversation. So we are on a dating app,
Speaker 1: we match and send me a message what would you
Speaker 1: ask me whatever anything?
Speaker 3: I don't care.
Speaker 2: Hi, Erica, what are your favorite genres of food?
Speaker 1: I love Italian and tie?
Speaker 3: Oh that's really exciting. What's your favorite place in town
Speaker 3: to go to?
Speaker 1: Uh, there's this place called Regent Tie. I really like.
Speaker 3: Oh that's really good. We did it.
Speaker 1: We did it. That was the exercise. So exactly what
Speaker 1: we did here. You're engaging me in conversation, and I
Speaker 1: am shutting it down at every turn by not asking
Speaker 1: you a question back, even an and you and you
Speaker 1: would be anything, would be so easy. And so my recommendation,
Speaker 1: I call it two qs, two questions in a statement.
Speaker 1: So you ask question one what type of food? I
Speaker 1: gave a statement, Italian and tie. Question two, oh, do
Speaker 1: you have any favorite places? I gave a statement Regent Tie.
Speaker 1: And then you're not going to keep asking me questions.
Speaker 1: You're not my interviewer here. And but the reason I
Speaker 1: do have you sort of that last message in a
Speaker 1: statement is because I never ever want anyone to accuse
Speaker 1: you of ghosting them or not answering. And so we're
Speaker 1: simply closing out the conversation with a statement. Sounds great,
Speaker 1: sounds delicious, yum yum. I love pad Thai, I don't care.
Speaker 1: So ninety percent of the time the conversation was done anyway,
Speaker 1: and you're just sort of shutting the door. They already
Speaker 1: shut the door. You're just like putting the deadlock on it.
Speaker 1: Ten percent of the time the other person will come
Speaker 1: back and ask you a question because they go back
Speaker 1: to the conversation realize there's nothing to talk about, Realize, oh,
Speaker 1: I didn't ask a question. Half of that ten percent
Speaker 1: will be how's it going or how's your day, which
Speaker 1: is a non starter.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know how many conversations I've had where it's been
Speaker 2: how's your day? Oh, it's great, Okay, cool, mind.
Speaker 1: I don't even ask my friends, like I love my friends,
Speaker 1: I don't send daily how's you I don't care. I
Speaker 1: want to say I don't care. I care, but like
Speaker 1: we don't care, we don't care. I'm not asking a
Speaker 1: general how's your day? Like I'll ask if they did
Speaker 1: the thing that they told me they were gonna do
Speaker 1: mm hmm. But how's your day is just so boring,
Speaker 1: especially if your profile is filled out really well. There's
Speaker 1: a million other things you can ask, So I'm not
Speaker 1: saying discount someone immediately if they ask how's your day,
Speaker 1: give it one shot. I wouldn't do it's good, how
Speaker 1: about you, because like that's going nowhere. But you could say,
Speaker 1: you know, it's really good. I surprisingly had the most
Speaker 1: delicious canole today, how about you? They'll either say okay,
Speaker 1: when you ask someone how their day is, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I can't shut up about this. When you ask someone
Speaker 1: how their day, I did have a canola, which is
Speaker 1: why I'm like probably sooped up on sugar, they either
Speaker 1: say work, relaxing, or laundry. It's like all people say.
Speaker 1: So if you give them a lead in with the
Speaker 1: cano and they take it and ask about desserts or
Speaker 1: say something of relevance, Okay, maybe it'll turn into a conversation.
Speaker 1: Maybe it won't.
Speaker 2: No, that's really helpful advice because it is we get
Speaker 2: in this kind of monotonous way of doing things where
Speaker 2: somebody's asking how your day, you're responding you ask how exactly?
Speaker 1: It's so boring. And then another piece of advice is
Speaker 1: don't eat a two day old cannoli that's been in
Speaker 1: your fridge because it's it's not that good, you know,
Speaker 1: I say, it was very soggy.
Speaker 2: I feel like that could be also a start of
Speaker 2: your fun fact that is going to turn into an
Speaker 2: actual fun fact when they don't have a real fun
Speaker 2: fact on their profile.
Speaker 3: And I love that.
Speaker 4: Get to that.
Speaker 3: Those are my favorite things to watch every time. You're like,
Speaker 3: this is not a fun fact.
Speaker 1: Random fact I love is sunshine. No. No. A fun
Speaker 1: fact I'm obsessed with is microphones.
Speaker 2: I just can't oh the amount of times I've seen this.
Speaker 2: I'm like, that is not a fun fact.
Speaker 1: Comprehension people, anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about the profile, like when you
Speaker 2: set up a good dating profile versus one that's not good.
Speaker 3: Give us the good one, give us the bad one.
Speaker 1: Okay, Uh well, I always keep a representative sample on
Speaker 1: my phone of good ones. So I'll read you a
Speaker 1: Hinge one right now. Perspect here's a good one. It's
Speaker 1: it's with my information. I just keep it on my
Speaker 1: phone to read. I geek out on This is on
Speaker 1: hinge where we have three prompts. A geek out on puns.
Speaker 1: Oh well, okay, you'll see puns, ping pong, speakeasy slash,
Speaker 1: bourbon omakase like sushi, push ups, Broadway musicals, crosswords, and
Speaker 1: a well placed ellipsis like a dot dot dot. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: there's so much what I call message bait in there
Speaker 1: that you can start a conversation on. I'll fall for
Speaker 1: you if the idea of telling each other the minutia
Speaker 1: of our day, like what we ate for lunch and
Speaker 1: putting our dates in a Google calendar sounds like the
Speaker 1: epitome of a romance too.
Speaker 2: There's what I'm really sensing here is detailed because tale
Speaker 2: inviting questions, it's inviting a conversation.
Speaker 1: Lastly, and this one's interactive. Do you agree or disagree
Speaker 1: that riding the subway is actually fun? Locks on a
Speaker 1: raisin bagel is a revelation? Please don't argue with me.
Speaker 1: Socks are to be worn to sleep.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so hot topics there, you're like not abating them.
Speaker 1: Any hot takes? Like today, someone wrote I was I
Speaker 1: was on a call with a guy, and a woman
Speaker 1: had written, Oh, it made me so angry. She wrote,
Speaker 1: do you agree or disagree that Tom Hanks is a
Speaker 1: zero out of ten? I was angry, so I told
Speaker 1: him to write he is at least a five out
Speaker 1: of ten, and if you count big, he is a
Speaker 1: ten out of ten.
Speaker 3: But see look at that.
Speaker 2: It starts this great conversation that say, isn't how are
Speaker 2: you well?
Speaker 1: Exactly? And so if you've taken the time to fill
Speaker 1: out your profile and someone gives you how are you again,
Speaker 1: I'm not saying completely say no, but it does tell
Speaker 1: you something about their laziness.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is this piece that Again.
Speaker 2: When I was talking to my mom, I said, I'm
Speaker 2: really paying attention to how they're going about planning a date.
Speaker 3: The first one doesn't have to be alive. We're just meeting.
Speaker 2: We're exercising an opportunity to get to know each other
Speaker 2: in real life. But past that first date and we
Speaker 2: continue a second, a third, and down the line. I'm
Speaker 2: paying attention to how you're planning a date because if
Speaker 2: you can't plan a date, you can't plan a relationship.
Speaker 1: You can't people. Yeah, people say that. I would say, like,
Speaker 1: everyone's planning styles are a little bit different, so you
Speaker 1: can sort of push someone into the kind of kind
Speaker 1: of planning you want. Like if they say, is there
Speaker 1: a spot near you that you like and you really
Speaker 1: prefer that they plan, you can say I would love
Speaker 1: for you to surprise me, or I would love your
Speaker 1: recommendations that's positive reinforcement, but also explaining to them how
Speaker 1: you want it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really good. Also, you have so many good tips.
Speaker 2: This is also why I follow you on Instagram because
Speaker 2: it's just great to again back to the no nonsense.
Speaker 2: You're just cutting down this questioning of so many things
Speaker 2: that's happening in the dating world.
Speaker 1: We question ourselves to our death right, or we could
Speaker 1: just go on dates. And like, my whole thing is,
Speaker 1: I don't even care if people do online dating like
Speaker 1: I think most people should. What I do care is
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do it, I want you to do
Speaker 1: it well because I get frustrated, honestly. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: on zoom calls all day with clients and I have
Speaker 1: them share their screen with me, and I see what's
Speaker 1: going on, and I get frustrated when I see you
Speaker 1: just not using it well, like passively or ignoring good people,
Speaker 1: or like saying no to or swiping left on people
Speaker 1: who seem great. For Oh, I didn't like one, I
Speaker 1: didn't like the background, I didn't like that chair, come on,
Speaker 1: you know, And I see this all the time, and
Speaker 1: that's what frustrates me. So I just want to make
Speaker 1: sure people are using the tools as best they can.
Speaker 2: Something that you said in there kind of struck my
Speaker 2: attention to lead you into this. So when somebody matches
Speaker 2: with you, like say you like somebody's photo, but they
Speaker 2: don't say anything, They just like your.
Speaker 3: Photo to match, who do you feel like?
Speaker 1: Starts that conversation you And when I say you, I
Speaker 1: mean anybody. So it is lazy that most people will
Speaker 1: just we're talking about on Hinge here, when people just
Speaker 1: like a photo and don't write anything. I advise everyone
Speaker 1: who works with me and everyone who follows me to
Speaker 1: write a message. Clearly. However, I can't get through to
Speaker 1: the world and most people are lazy. So what I
Speaker 1: recommend is, you got six pictures on hinge. I'm sure
Speaker 1: you've seen this, write yourself what I call a Hinge
Speaker 1: cheat sheet. Okay, for every photo you have posted on hinge,
Speaker 1: write a little canned message that has to do with
Speaker 1: that picture that you can then send to start the conversation. So,
Speaker 1: for example, let's say you have a picture of yourself
Speaker 1: in front of a podcasting microphone. Someone likes that picture
Speaker 1: and say, you don't have to tell them you host
Speaker 1: a podcast. If you don't want to, you could say, like, oh,
Speaker 1: any guesses what I'm doing ted talk or podcast that
Speaker 1: would be you know, or stand up whatever, anything like that.
Speaker 1: You have a picture of you at a winery again
Speaker 1: I'm making this up. Oh thanks for the like that
Speaker 1: was actually at a winery in Virginia. Ever, you know,
Speaker 1: have you ever been something quick and easy that starts
Speaker 1: the conversation. It's still a tailored message, but it's also
Speaker 1: like you can use that message for every time somebody
Speaker 1: likes that same picture.
Speaker 3: Well, it's helping them.
Speaker 2: As your Instagram is called a little nudge in the direction.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because then it'll be very clear because if
Speaker 1: you just like someone back, the conversation never starts. I mean,
Speaker 1: like most people don't start a conversation. I'd rather you
Speaker 1: start it and then you'll know immediately if someone's going
Speaker 1: to engage with you or not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is also good. I keep saying
Speaker 2: this is great price.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I hope we're recording this.
Speaker 3: It's here for a reason. I can't I can't help it. Now.
Speaker 2: I do want to talk about ghosting. Ghosting is wild.
Speaker 2: It is a truly wild West situation out here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what are your thoughts on ghosting? Let's start there.
Speaker 1: Don't do it. Okay, Here's how I define How do
Speaker 1: you define ghosting?
Speaker 2: I define ghosting if I if I haven't met you,
Speaker 2: I don't really read too much of an into it.
Speaker 3: A conversation falls off.
Speaker 2: But I do like the respectful as long as there
Speaker 2: is a close whether it just be hey, thanks, it
Speaker 2: was really great to meet you, into conversation, nothing comes
Speaker 2: of it, that's what happened. But if you're actively having
Speaker 2: a conversation with someone and there's any inclination that you
Speaker 2: may be going out again, yeah, you have to say, hey,
Speaker 2: I don't want to go out again at that point
Speaker 2: in time.
Speaker 3: Wherever that is in the situation for somebody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I mean, that's pretty much my definition. If
Speaker 1: someone makes themselves vulnerable. And when I say vulnerable, I
Speaker 1: don't mean like, oh my god, I tell you my
Speaker 1: family history. I mean like asks you a question that
Speaker 1: requires a response and you don't answer. I consider that ghosting,
Speaker 1: not you a collective you. So do you want to
Speaker 1: go out again? You have to answer. You owe the
Speaker 1: person an answer. That's like basic, that's basic.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 1: Even worse is you've been out a number of times
Speaker 1: and you ask a question and the other person doesn't answer.
Speaker 1: That's horrible. You know, there has to be some acknowledgment.
Speaker 2: Well, because then it creates the cycle effect too, because
Speaker 2: somebody gets ghosted, then they're going to go somebody else
Speaker 2: because this is how it was handled this way, It's
Speaker 2: like the cycle continues to repeat itself.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the worst part or it's
Speaker 1: more what did I do wrong? I'm going to overanalyze
Speaker 1: everything that I ever said and did to this person. Me, me, me,
Speaker 1: when it really has nothing to do with you. It's
Speaker 1: just the other person's inability to communicate. And so I
Speaker 1: don't actually think I wonder if there's a study on
Speaker 1: this or if I should do one. I don't actually
Speaker 1: think getting ghosted would make someone ghost someone. I think
Speaker 1: it would make them think twice about ghosting someone because
Speaker 1: it kills. I think it's more it's hurtful because there's
Speaker 1: no closure, and you can get over someone if they
Speaker 1: tell you no, but it's really hard to get over
Speaker 1: someone if they tell you nothing.
Speaker 3: It's true, and I've seen it both ways.
Speaker 2: I've had both experiences where somebody's I personally have been ghosted,
Speaker 2: and I make sure that I don't because I've had
Speaker 2: that experience. But I've also talked with people who say, well,
Speaker 2: they somebody else did it.
Speaker 3: To me, so you know, I'm just gonna do it
Speaker 3: to somebody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the worst rationale I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm entirely with you. It's crazy. I feel I'm
Speaker 2: not like I know, yeah.
Speaker 3: But it's crazy that it is.
Speaker 2: It goes those both ways, right, and that's ghosting to
Speaker 2: me is just such an impersonal way of existing within
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 3: But it's very common.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: How do you handle when somebody is is being ghosted? Say,
Speaker 2: put me in the chair, say I get ghosted. Do
Speaker 2: I reach out to this person again to trying it closure?
Speaker 2: Or do I just accept that the ghosting happened.
Speaker 1: What do you want to do? And how long has
Speaker 1: it been? Let's make an actual scenario here.
Speaker 2: Okay, gosh, it's been a minute because I'm an over
Speaker 2: communicator at this point my life.
Speaker 3: Make no.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't mean how long has it been
Speaker 1: since you got ghosted? I mean in our scenario, yeah,
Speaker 1: how many dates have you been on?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Where are we?
Speaker 3: Say? We've gone on five dates?
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good, and we are.
Speaker 2: Having a great time, The conversation feels like we're headed
Speaker 2: to continue doing this.
Speaker 3: The person disappears.
Speaker 1: And you might ask something that clearly required a response.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or at least said hey, like you know, can't
Speaker 2: wait to see you again, or excited to see you again,
Speaker 2: something that insinuated hey, we are on track to be
Speaker 2: able to go out again.
Speaker 1: You usually communicate daily. You can make this up. This
Speaker 1: is a fake scenario.
Speaker 2: I would say most people, at least this day and age,
Speaker 2: especially with their phones, tend to communicate at somewhat.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's out of characters what I'm asking? Yes, okay?
Speaker 1: How many days go by before you're like, am I
Speaker 1: being ghosted?
Speaker 3: Three days? Okay?
Speaker 1: What do you want to do it? Three days?
Speaker 2: I think me as a natural person, I think most people,
Speaker 2: especially having been out that many times, would want to
Speaker 2: communicate and find out why.
Speaker 1: I agree with you. Unfortunately, a lot of people say
Speaker 1: to themselves, well, if they didn't reach out to me,
Speaker 1: I don't want to reach out to them. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give the same energy. I disagree with that. I think
Speaker 1: the first thing I actually posted a video on this today.
Speaker 1: It was exactly the scenario, but it was seven days
Speaker 1: I would just check in, just checking in, haven't heard
Speaker 1: from you everything? Okay? Yeah, Now if you don't get
Speaker 1: an answer to that, I think this is your question.
Speaker 1: What do I do? First of all, it's stinks, and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry because I hate this shows. Can you even
Speaker 1: imagine being in an actual relationship with this person? They
Speaker 1: have an issue and just like, what's the equivalent walk
Speaker 1: out the door never to return again. That's horrible.
Speaker 3: Anyway, it does.
Speaker 2: Give you an insight into who they are and how
Speaker 2: they act in a relationship, so you are better off.
Speaker 3: But I know there's so many people.
Speaker 1: Yes, what do you want to do in the moment,
Speaker 1: and then I'll give you my advice.
Speaker 2: I think there's a large part of me that if
Speaker 2: I already said hey, I'd like to see you again
Speaker 2: and they did it, I think I would just let
Speaker 2: it go and try to move on.
Speaker 1: Letting it go is a valid choice. I never let
Speaker 1: things go, which could be good or bad. I was
Speaker 1: once talking to my mom and she was like, you
Speaker 1: need a lot more closure than I do. I'm like,
Speaker 1: that's nice, but everyone's on their phone, so like it
Speaker 1: was different then, you know, so I generally recommend if
Speaker 1: you cannot move passed this without saying something, and that's
Speaker 1: an if, because not reaching out is also a valid choice.
Speaker 1: I would say something that doesn't brate the other person,
Speaker 1: that doesn't ask another question, that doesn't make them tell
Speaker 1: you they don't like you, because that's clearly what it is.
Speaker 1: They don't like you anymore. I don't know why. Rather,
Speaker 1: this message would be solely for the purpose of getting
Speaker 1: your own closure and setting yourself free. So it's something like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure why I haven't heard from you since
Speaker 1: our last message, or I'm disappointed I haven't heard from
Speaker 1: you since our last message. I really enjoyed our five
Speaker 1: dates together and was hoping to keep getting to know
Speaker 1: each other. I wish you the best.
Speaker 3: Actually enclosure piece.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sent it to someone today. Let me just
Speaker 1: read it what I actually wrote. I'm not sure what happened,
Speaker 1: but basically what I just said. But I'm disappointed I
Speaker 1: never heard back from you after what I considered. In
Speaker 1: this case, it was six weeks. We'll go with five
Speaker 1: wonderful dates. I do wish you had kindly let me
Speaker 1: know you were no longer interested. Regardless, this will be
Speaker 1: my last communication.
Speaker 3: It's respectful, it's honest and it's allowing you to move forward.
Speaker 1: It's not giving them any power. It's saying I noticed,
Speaker 1: I don't like it, goodbye. It's not saying why why why?
Speaker 1: Because someone told me this analogy and I don't know
Speaker 1: where they got it, but I liked it. If a
Speaker 1: snake bites you, is your first inclination to tend to
Speaker 1: your wound? Or is it to run after the snake
Speaker 1: asking why it bit you?
Speaker 3: Obviously not.
Speaker 1: Now you can say curses, snake, I hate you, which
Speaker 1: is basically what this text is, but nicer. But you're
Speaker 1: gonna tend to your wounds?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yet we still like to chase after the snake.
Speaker 1: Sometimes, Yeah, you can tell the snake off, but nicely
Speaker 1: in this way. I just which is basically like, I
Speaker 1: noticed you, snake, I wasn't into it, didn't deserve that
Speaker 1: be Well, yes cha, I'm gonna chase a snake. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: why did you blame me?
Speaker 3: It's just no, yeah, there, nobody gets anything out of that.
Speaker 3: There is no win there.
Speaker 1: So I do like that closure message. I think it's
Speaker 1: extremely empowering. You ask two people, one calls it empowering,
Speaker 1: one calls it desperate, which I disagree with that's my recommendation.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you know, and you have to go with it.
Speaker 2: I do think there's different scenarios for different things too.
Speaker 2: To your point, you're you know, there's sometimes where you
Speaker 2: feel you really need to send that message if you
Speaker 2: have a really special connection. Other times you're like, well
Speaker 2: maybe this wasn't what I thought it was kind of thing,
Speaker 2: And I think it depends on the connection that you
Speaker 2: have with that.
Speaker 1: Yes, the connection the timeframe. Look in five dates, maybe
Speaker 1: you will have slept with someone at that point. That
Speaker 1: would hurt way more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, speaking of sleeping with not that that's
Speaker 2: the conversation I've headed, but it's getting me in this direction.
Speaker 3: One of your other very strategic things that you tell.
Speaker 2: People is dating NATO, which is not attached to the outcome.
Speaker 2: And I've adapted this into my dating and it's been
Speaker 2: super helpful because I think I had reached a point where,
Speaker 2: you know, you date enough and I've gone on many
Speaker 2: dates in my lifetime and I've learned a lot about people.
Speaker 2: I've learned a lot about myself. But you do get
Speaker 2: to a point where you feel hopeless and you're just yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes yea, yeah, you get bummed and you get tired,
Speaker 2: and then you go back up you're like, okay, we're
Speaker 2: ready again. Yeah, but having this really has helped me
Speaker 2: not kind of go on that rollercoaster ride as much.
Speaker 1: That makes me really happy. That's great. So how do
Speaker 1: you I mean, I know how I write it, but like,
Speaker 1: how do you interpret that at what? Like in Layman's terms,
Speaker 1: what does it mean to.
Speaker 2: You that you go out with someone with the intention
Speaker 2: that you would like to meet someone, but you're not
Speaker 2: attached yourself to what's gonna happen after that date is over?
Speaker 1: Okay exactly. So many people put pressure on themselves like
Speaker 1: is this the one? Is this my future long term relationship?
Speaker 1: Is this my future spouse? Is this my future parent
Speaker 1: of my future? Trying so much and it's like this
Speaker 1: is a stranger. I don't know because when you put
Speaker 1: so much pressure on yourself, one, you're not even present
Speaker 1: on the date anymore because you're just evaluating this person
Speaker 1: against some criteria that they don't even know about. But two,
Speaker 1: you're saying, there's only one definition of success. And I
Speaker 1: understand that the end goal for many people is that
Speaker 1: long term relationship, But to try to backfill this stranger
Speaker 1: into could you be my future partner? When you don't
Speaker 1: know each other, It's just I don't know, it's counterproductive.
Speaker 1: So I'd rather you just meet a new person, see
Speaker 1: how you feel about this person, And the only thing
Speaker 1: you need to know after a first date is am
Speaker 1: I curious enough about this person to go on a
Speaker 1: second date? That's about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really love to this.
Speaker 2: This has genuinely shifted, especially just in the dating truly,
Speaker 2: because in the dating world for me, I've been in it,
Speaker 2: in and out of it for so long that you
Speaker 2: do you just you start to get into your habits,
Speaker 2: and you start to do things the way that you
Speaker 2: think they're supposed to be done. And I feel like
Speaker 2: you just bring such a fresh perspective and just truly
Speaker 2: thinking of things just so bluntly versus you know, let's
Speaker 2: sake here an analysis for thirty minutes.
Speaker 1: Well exactly, I mean it. Yeah, I try to be nice,
Speaker 1: but like I do, try to cut through all of
Speaker 1: the stuff just to see exactly what is going on.
Speaker 2: Well, it's more helpful than somebody just kind of helping
Speaker 2: me beat around a bush call.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm paying me to like to be like, Okay,
Speaker 1: sweet you know. I mean again, I'm nice. I mean
Speaker 1: someone today told me I called her out on something
Speaker 1: and then she was like I could tell she didn't
Speaker 1: like it, and then she was like, no I needed it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, no, we all we all need that friend.
Speaker 2: And you've become that friend for a lot of people.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Being my real friend, though, is always interesting because I
Speaker 1: got to keep my big mouth shut because they're not
Speaker 1: asking for advice.
Speaker 3: So it is true. You have to be prepared.
Speaker 2: You're like, Okay, I'm just a listener in this situation.
Speaker 2: I am not an advice giver.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: I had such a struggle yesterday with something. I don't
Speaker 1: even know why I'm bringing this up, but I'm telling
Speaker 1: you anyway. So I was at the gym, and I
Speaker 1: would call this woman a friendly acquaintance. We're friendlier of
Speaker 1: an acquaintances, Like we've gotten drinks before, and she's wedding
Speaker 1: planning and I've met her fiance, nice guy. And she
Speaker 1: told me, God, I hope she's not listening to this.
Speaker 1: She told me they're planning their wedding and it's been
Speaker 1: stressful because she wants to get married in a church
Speaker 1: and he doesn't, and Ultimately, he conceded and said that
Speaker 1: he would get married in the church, and she was
Speaker 1: still upset because she wanted him to want to get
Speaker 1: married in the church. And she told me that before
Speaker 1: class and the whole class, I mean, what else are
Speaker 1: you thinking about? I'm like, on the rower, like what
Speaker 1: am I going to think of? So I'm thinking about this,
Speaker 1: And to me, it was so clear that all he
Speaker 1: needs is some appreciation for conceding and doing the thing
Speaker 1: he doesn't really want to do, but he wants to
Speaker 1: make her happy. And I thought the whole time, I'm like, Erica,
Speaker 1: don't say this is not She did not ask your advice, nothing, hm.
Speaker 1: But I could tell he'll stress you. I didn't know
Speaker 1: what to do. So after class, I said, would you
Speaker 1: be open to some advice I have. You can say no,
Speaker 1: and she said yes, and I said, okay. I said,
Speaker 1: if I am overstepping, tell me to shut up. And
Speaker 1: I told her exactly what I just said to you.
Speaker 1: I said, I think he's just looking for some appreciation.
Speaker 1: And I said to her, he's never gonna want it
Speaker 1: like you do, ever. And I made an analogy. I said,
Speaker 1: let's say you and I are going to lunch, you
Speaker 1: want to go next door, and I want to go
Speaker 1: to a place in my neighborhood. And you see, it's
Speaker 1: important to me to go in my neighborhood, so you
Speaker 1: agree to go in my nihborhood. And instead of being
Speaker 1: grateful that you've said, okay, I'll do what you want,
Speaker 1: I'm upset that you don't want to come to lunch
Speaker 1: in my neighborhood, that you're just going through the motions.
Speaker 1: Instead I could just say to you, that's really nice
Speaker 1: of you. I really appreciate that. I know it's not
Speaker 1: what you wanted, and I think that would bode better
Speaker 1: for our relationship. And I still feel weird about giving
Speaker 1: the advice, and I still kind of regret bringing it
Speaker 1: up because she didn't ask. On the other hand, it
Speaker 1: was good advice, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think sometimes honestly though, just like your Instagram is,
Speaker 2: some people need that push in a direction that they're.
Speaker 3: Not going to think about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it is really hard, but again, you didn't
Speaker 2: just go in and say that advice, but that would you. Ever?
Speaker 1: I always ask it, and even with clients, even though
Speaker 1: they're literally paying me to do my job, I always
Speaker 1: say before I say any critique, positive or otherwise about
Speaker 1: their profile. I always say, do I have to be honest?
Speaker 1: Or if I see something physical I think might be
Speaker 1: hurting them. If it's a simple fix that will cost
Speaker 1: no money, I might suggest it, suggest it, and I'll say,
Speaker 1: do I have permission to make a physical observation? Only
Speaker 1: one person in almost fourteen years has said no, and
Speaker 1: I didn't.
Speaker 3: But you know they're also not getting their money's worth.
Speaker 3: But that's a different story.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, I think you did the right thing in
Speaker 2: the scenario, and I think it's hope in the long run,
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I did, but I hope it helped, because,
Speaker 1: like I could see how stress anyway. I know that's
Speaker 1: a little off topic.
Speaker 2: No, but it's also kind of on because you know,
Speaker 2: that is a very great Here's the thing. We all
Speaker 2: focus so heavily on the dating and getting on the
Speaker 2: date and finding the partner that we almost forget when
Speaker 2: we find the partner, how to be a partner.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like the work's not over, yeah, and it
Speaker 1: should be fun. I know work has a bad connotation,
Speaker 1: but like you have to maintain, yeah, maintenance mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you one more thing before we go,
Speaker 2: because it's such a hot topic on social media.
Speaker 4: The ick.
Speaker 3: Oh god, Okay, people get the ick. I'm guilty of it.
Speaker 2: You know everybody has had their moments where they've gotten
Speaker 2: the ick on ridiculous or just valid things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, some are valid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but how do you feel about the ick?
Speaker 4: What are we doing?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: It's so overused. I'm so tired of hearing about the ick.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, did this one little baby thing and
Speaker 1: I got the ick? Get over it? Because like, if
Speaker 1: everyone gets the ick, there's nobody left. And some are
Speaker 1: completely valid, some are like way more than an ick,
Speaker 1: some are a red flag, or some are just problems.
Speaker 1: But if someone just okay, this is I don't know.
Speaker 1: This may have been before you started following me, but
Speaker 1: this girl wrote in once and she was like, I
Speaker 1: got the ick because he used his napkin wrong. Do
Speaker 1: you remember this?
Speaker 3: I've seen the funny ones, but this one was funny.
Speaker 1: It was hilarious, and I had to know, how do
Speaker 1: you use a napkinrol? Like I thought, maybe he put
Speaker 1: it on his chest like a bib he put on
Speaker 1: his head. I don't know, how do you use a
Speaker 1: napkin roll? Anyway, she said that he had it rolled
Speaker 1: up around the utensils and just like dab dab dabbed
Speaker 1: his face without unrolling the napkin, which is weird.
Speaker 3: I'll admit it is weird.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe he was nervous anyway to get the
Speaker 1: ick from that. I don't know. I personally in the
Speaker 1: moment would be like, you can unroll that, Like that's
Speaker 1: my personality, clearly it was not hers or my mom
Speaker 1: always taught me you enrolled the dackin, but that to
Speaker 1: me is the silliest. Or like someone told me she
Speaker 1: got the iick because he had a Superman wallet, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what if his nephew gave it to him
Speaker 1: and it's his like prized possession. So we have to
Speaker 1: There are ranges of icks, you know.
Speaker 3: There are.
Speaker 1: If you get the ick because someone is rude to
Speaker 1: a server, that's not an dick. That's a red flag.
Speaker 2: Yes, very different. We've kind of muddied those waters between
Speaker 2: a nick and a red flag for sure. So that's
Speaker 2: why I wanted to ask you, because it is listen again.
Speaker 2: Some of them are valid, some of them are just
Speaker 2: your preferences, and maybe you just say this.
Speaker 1: Is my preference exactly exactly, So what's never? I won't
Speaker 1: put you on the spot.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's okay, you, it's.
Speaker 1: Like a funny one. You annoyed you.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a funny one because it always leads
Speaker 2: somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Okay, but I get the ick if i've so.
Speaker 2: Say I'm dating a guy for a while and then
Speaker 2: I go to his house and he doesn't have a headboard.
Speaker 3: I know that sounds strange here.
Speaker 1: It does not sound strange. Actually, you want a grown
Speaker 1: up with a grown up bed.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the reason.
Speaker 2: I'm like, if we can't even have a headboard, sir,
Speaker 2: I don't know that this is going to work in
Speaker 2: the capacity as we keep going down the line. This
Speaker 2: is really fun and casual. But that's what your bed's
Speaker 2: screaming at me.
Speaker 1: I don't hate that ick.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm not bad for that one.
Speaker 1: No, you're not bad.
Speaker 2: But it is a funny one, and it's I've never
Speaker 2: I had a guy that I dated for a while
Speaker 2: who didn't have one. So it wasn't enough for me
Speaker 2: to like not, but it definitely alerted me to say, hmm,
Speaker 2: what else do we not have together? Let's pay attention
Speaker 2: to the rest of our life. What else are we
Speaker 2: not one hundred percent working on? And it just allowed
Speaker 2: me to like open my mind and see what else
Speaker 2: was going on in his life.
Speaker 1: It's funny, though, because we don't notice our own stuff.
Speaker 1: So if he's never had a headboard, he probably doesn't
Speaker 1: even notice that he doesn't have a headboard.
Speaker 2: And that's why it can be a controversial itch because
Speaker 2: some people just are like, what I don't have No,
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to have one.
Speaker 1: We don't notice our own I mean I have one,
Speaker 1: but it's neither here nor there.
Speaker 3: Every pretty much every woman I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't be caught dead sleeping anyway. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: So there's mine. That is my controversial one.
Speaker 1: I will it could be way worse.
Speaker 3: It could be.
Speaker 2: I've got I listen, Especially as I've gotten older, I've
Speaker 2: you just learned and you experience a lot of things
Speaker 2: and you understand people better. And that's part of dating
Speaker 2: is experience and understanding the world.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I totally.
Speaker 3: Well, Erica, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Is there any last words of wisdom that you maybe
Speaker 2: want to share or something that's just on your chest
Speaker 2: your heart? You're like, I feel like the people, especially
Speaker 2: my single people, need to know this.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I feel like I've shared all of
Speaker 1: my wisdom. What to do? What to do? I don't
Speaker 1: want to say no, but I can say no. I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna leave on a high note. I think
Speaker 1: this was pretty good.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, Erica, thank you for chatting with me and
Speaker 2: talking all things dating again. You are a great follow
Speaker 2: on Instagram, so go check her out at a little nudge.
Speaker 3: I personally follow her. She's my dating coach.
Speaker 2: She doesn't even know it, and I utilize a lot
Speaker 2: of stuff she said. So thank you again, Erica, just
Speaker 2: for being here.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: On the second half of this podcast, I'm bringing on
Speaker 2: one of my newer friends, Miss Jamie.
Speaker 3: Hello Jamie, how are you?
Speaker 4: Hello, Morgan, how are you you?
Speaker 2: When I say newer friends, this is in the last year,
Speaker 2: Jamie and I actually became friends. I had started working
Speaker 2: out at a new gym called Seven Minutes Fitness here
Speaker 2: in Nashville, and she's a trainer there and we.
Speaker 3: Were kind of friends. And then I went through my
Speaker 3: breakup last year and.
Speaker 2: Jamie came in and slipped in and was my savior
Speaker 2: and made me eat food when I didn't want to
Speaker 2: eat for like a week, and then we became best
Speaker 2: friends pretty much ever since that moment, which is crazy
Speaker 2: because that's only been a couple months. It feels like
Speaker 2: I've known you a lifetime at this point of a
Speaker 2: lot of the conversations we've had. But it's wild to
Speaker 2: me that you're one of my newer friends.
Speaker 4: I know, it's kind of weird to think about.
Speaker 3: I know you've seen me in multiple faces already too.
Speaker 5: I know life's been crazy this past year. I think
Speaker 5: I don't even think it's been a year yet. You're right,
Speaker 5: just crazy, I know.
Speaker 2: And that's why I wanted to bring you on though,
Speaker 2: because you do often give me some different perspective and
Speaker 2: we have some very real conversations, especially when it comes
Speaker 2: to dating. You've known me as I was dating someone,
Speaker 2: when I broke up with someone, and now is Morgan
Speaker 2: who's dating people. You've seen me in the three phases
Speaker 2: that exist within the dating realm.
Speaker 3: Just not married yet.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's on the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jamie likes to remind me tell the people a
Speaker 2: little bit about you and kind of your dating story,
Speaker 2: your background, if you will.
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, it's not super lengthy as one thing, but
Speaker 5: I was in a long term relationship out of high
Speaker 5: school through high school and then in college or just
Speaker 5: kind of had fun, not like that kind of fun,
Speaker 5: but I just didn't really get serious with anyone. And
Speaker 5: I haven't really been serious with anyone since. So it's
Speaker 5: just been me, which is kind of different than most
Speaker 5: people can say. I mean, there's been like a few
Speaker 5: things where I'm dating them for a little bit, but
Speaker 5: I haven't had a long term relationship in a while.
Speaker 4: I'm kind of boring.
Speaker 3: This is why I think it's interesting.
Speaker 2: We have very, very vastly different experiences. So would you
Speaker 2: say one really long term relationship.
Speaker 5: For you then, yeah, I mean it's five years, so
Speaker 5: it was pretty long.
Speaker 2: And this is somebody that I assume you thought you
Speaker 2: were going to marry at one point.
Speaker 5: Oh for sure. Yeah, instantly, you know, in high school,
Speaker 5: you're like, I'm gonna marry him, and then college comes
Speaker 5: around and life gets crazy for both of you and
Speaker 5: you're young and it just didn't work out, which is okay.
Speaker 2: But since then, do you feel like that has had
Speaker 2: a reason as to why you haven't pursued dating as
Speaker 2: much because of that relationship.
Speaker 5: I mean, it totally could be. I think I've worked
Speaker 5: on a lot with myself and maybe kind of tossed
Speaker 5: it to the side and what I went through and
Speaker 5: just kind of learned about myself after the fact instead
Speaker 5: of blaming him, which I think took a long time
Speaker 5: to realize that I'm part of the equation as well.
Speaker 5: So how am I Showing up in a relationship is
Speaker 5: super important and you can point at the other person
Speaker 5: in the whole time and say, oh, it's because he
Speaker 5: did this, because she did that. I mean, looking inward
Speaker 5: is huge, and I think that's maybe why it's taken
Speaker 5: a little while and some trial and errors there. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean I don't it could be it.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be, but I assume it is
Speaker 3: most of the time.
Speaker 2: When we've gone through something like that, especially spending five
Speaker 2: years of time with somebody, you have some things to
Speaker 2: work through when that ends. So and now what are
Speaker 2: you doing to date? What does your dating look like?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: Oh? Morgan?
Speaker 5: So Morgan has pushed me to be on the dating apps,
Speaker 5: which I find it funny. I will download Tender Hinge.
Speaker 5: I don't have I been on Tender. I've been on
Speaker 5: Tender once. I think maybe twice. Bumble is apparently the
Speaker 5: good one. Now I'm literally the worst. I get on
Speaker 5: there and I like swipe for about ten minutes and
Speaker 5: I'm like, what am.
Speaker 4: I looking at? And then just I never go on it.
Speaker 5: I actually downloaded it last because I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: there's a hunting convention coming to town.
Speaker 4: That's what Jamie's into, So let's see what's showing up.
Speaker 4: You know, I haven't been on.
Speaker 2: This week, So no, you just got on for that
Speaker 2: one brief.
Speaker 5: No, Oh am I on there?
Speaker 4: But I'm not on there?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, And so if you're not using the dating aps,
Speaker 2: please tell the people what you are doing to.
Speaker 3: Date then.
Speaker 5: So to be honest, I think I've gone on like
Speaker 5: maybe two real dates, like formal dates.
Speaker 4: That aren't like hey, let's go on a hike.
Speaker 5: Hey like to me, like, I feel like a formal
Speaker 5: date is showing up for dinner, he picks you up,
Speaker 5: or he plans something. Right.
Speaker 3: I'm very old school. We like old school traditional. It's
Speaker 3: a good thing.
Speaker 5: I'm a little traditional, So I haven't. I think it's
Speaker 5: been about This is so sad to say, maybe four
Speaker 5: years since someone has asked.
Speaker 4: Me formally on a date. I haven't gone on a
Speaker 4: formal date.
Speaker 2: Here, okay, But to my point of why I've pushed
Speaker 2: you to be on dating apps, I think that's why,
Speaker 2: because like this is, you are someone to who's in
Speaker 2: a gym environment. You also work in photography, like you
Speaker 2: do all kinds of things that you're in positions to.
Speaker 3: Meet a wide variety of human beings. My job not
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 2: I'm around the same nine people every single day and
Speaker 2: it's the same pattern. So the only way I put
Speaker 2: myself out there is when I'm going out into the
Speaker 2: world outside of work, right, So you do have a
Speaker 2: leg up there in your work situation, but beyond that,
Speaker 2: it's again going out and doing things.
Speaker 3: And I don't feel like people talk to each other
Speaker 3: in the real world anymore.
Speaker 4: They don't. And I've been told I have an RBF.
Speaker 4: You do.
Speaker 5: I do.
Speaker 3: I didn't think you liked me at first.
Speaker 5: It's true, that's the normal thing, but I mean, I'm
Speaker 5: a little soft to you when it comes down to it,
Speaker 5: but you gotta kind of crack me open.
Speaker 3: So I think you are, and we did.
Speaker 2: We have discussed this. You have black Cat energy, I
Speaker 2: have Golden Retree energy. We very well mesh together.
Speaker 4: You're like bee bright and happy.
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, I don't know about this one, and
Speaker 5: yet here we are, here, we are So I feel
Speaker 5: like my approach Like this year, I told myself to
Speaker 5: be a little bit more approachable, and I feel like
Speaker 5: moving to the south from Arizona has made me way
Speaker 5: more approachable. My parents are from Chicago, very midwestern. I
Speaker 5: was raid Midwestern but raised not raid. But living in Arizona,
Speaker 5: the people are different. It's a little more West coast vibe,
Speaker 5: La not so much my speed. But coming here, I've
Speaker 5: noticed that people are just so nice and everybody is
Speaker 5: just kind of like, hey.
Speaker 3: What do you do?
Speaker 4: I like you?
Speaker 5: You look cool, Like it's okay to be like that.
Speaker 5: But what I've noticed in the dating realm, like business wise,
Speaker 5: it's great dating rom I don't know what it is
Speaker 5: with the dudes.
Speaker 4: I really don't.
Speaker 5: And I want, like a nice southern gentleman to just
Speaker 5: walk on my doorstep. Oh I'm waiting, which is not good.
Speaker 5: I know that's not good. You've told me I need
Speaker 5: to be out about.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, that doesn't happen. Can a test? As
Speaker 2: also as somebody who gave my phone number to a
Speaker 2: man who ended up on my front porch at one point.
Speaker 3: Can very much attest that they do not show.
Speaker 2: Up on your front porch, and even when they do,
Speaker 2: it doesn't quite work.
Speaker 3: Out in the way that you wanted to.
Speaker 2: So, yes, I wanted to show this perspective of just
Speaker 2: two different people taking dating approaches in different ways, like
Speaker 2: we have very different I'm actively on dating apps and
Speaker 2: I'm very intentionally using dating apps, but I also would love.
Speaker 3: To meet somebody in real life.
Speaker 2: However, neither one of us also go up to people.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: We've been out together so many times, and we're really
Speaker 2: good at perusing, like Miss Reese Witherspoon says, we love
Speaker 2: to peruse, but we don't really go up to anybody.
Speaker 5: No, we just get mozzarellistics and sit in a boot
Speaker 5: and just talk and leave by eleven.
Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't need to be called out that hard,
Speaker 3: But I'm with.
Speaker 2: You, though I'm calling us out, It's okay, we do okay.
Speaker 3: So this is to my point.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you straight up, then you're not
Speaker 2: on dating apps actively, you don't go up to people
Speaker 2: on your life, how do you feel like you are
Speaker 2: gonna go on dates?
Speaker 3: How do you feel like this is gonna happen genuinely?
Speaker 4: Genuinely?
Speaker 5: I you know what's funny is when I do have
Speaker 5: the slightest interest in someone, or I'm like, oh, and
Speaker 5: I do talk to them. I do actively kind of
Speaker 5: you know, dip my toe in with them, and when
Speaker 5: they do show up where I work or whatever, I'm like, hey,
Speaker 5: and then I found out they have a girlfriend or
Speaker 5: they're getting engaged, or I'm the girl they date, and
Speaker 5: then we don't work out, and the next girl that
Speaker 5: they're with they marry.
Speaker 4: Like it is like to a tea that.
Speaker 5: That's what happens.
Speaker 3: We have a good luck Chuck situation.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 3: It's so bad, Jamie. Should we date so like then
Speaker 3: we can help each other out.
Speaker 5: I don't really know how this works. I need a
Speaker 5: duel income for the things I need working.
Speaker 3: I know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: How do we like reverse engineer that magic of the
Speaker 2: good luck Chuck?
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: But this is why I want you to to like
Speaker 2: genuinely process this as we're sitting here on this podcast
Speaker 2: of like, you have to start utilizing the dating apps.
Speaker 3: You have to Yeah, and not in a way.
Speaker 2: That like, I trust me as somebody who I would
Speaker 2: love to meet somebody in real life. I would love
Speaker 2: to go to a grocery store and we both reach
Speaker 2: for it than apple and we're like, oh, you're cute, hey,
Speaker 2: can I remember?
Speaker 3: Like, but it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: I've seen cute people at the store and I run
Speaker 2: away from them, and maybe they keep people up seen
Speaker 2: me and they run away from me. But either way,
Speaker 2: it's not happening, right, So we have to change the narrative,
Speaker 2: which is what I'm saying. And dating on the apps now,
Speaker 2: I say that wholeheartedly knowing that also the dating apps
Speaker 2: have not worked for me yet either. And that's somebody
Speaker 2: who's been actively.
Speaker 4: You're scaring me. I see how active you are, And.
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, what's happening with Morgan? Like Morgan's out there,
Speaker 5: she's like the social butterfly, the Golden triever energy. What
Speaker 5: it happens if you put the black cat on there
Speaker 5: and the black cat tries that.
Speaker 3: Maybe it works better for the black cat. Maybe the
Speaker 3: Golden retriever just likes too many people and wants to
Speaker 3: hang out with too many people.
Speaker 2: And then you know she can't really attach to one.
Speaker 5: It took the black Cat matched with a gentleman a
Speaker 5: year ago or more, took a year for the black
Speaker 5: Cat to meet this gentleman.
Speaker 3: What were you guys doing for a year, just.
Speaker 4: Like come and go?
Speaker 5: And I'm like, wait, I haven't really met this person yet,
Speaker 5: so probably she'll get No.
Speaker 3: We can't do that to.
Speaker 4: Jamie.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not. First of all, we don't need pin pals.
Speaker 3: I love I hate pin pals.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna send every pin Pal that comes to me
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 3: I hate pin pals.
Speaker 5: That's my we're friends.
Speaker 3: Why do you like pin pals?
Speaker 5: I mean, I guess it's just like you kind of
Speaker 5: get to know a person like it. Honestly, I just
Speaker 5: love friends too, So like getting to write to someone
Speaker 5: and like they get to just kind of help you
Speaker 5: about their day and it's I don't know, it's.
Speaker 2: Fun, jamielets Okay, I'm not talking about an actual pin
Speaker 2: Pal letter thing.
Speaker 3: Okay, that is cute, that's adorable if you can do that.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about a dude who gets your phone number
Speaker 2: and you just become pin pals for six months aka
Speaker 2: a year.
Speaker 4: But we wouldn't even talk all the time. It was
Speaker 4: like nonchalant. It was weird.
Speaker 5: But then I was also kind of seeing someone and
Speaker 5: then you know the pattern, so like, it's not like
Speaker 5: I put for the effort to him either, So then
Speaker 5: it just happened to match up a year later.
Speaker 2: Wait, so then you do like texting pinpals or you don't.
Speaker 5: I don't, Okay, I mean when I like the right,
Speaker 5: I was singing like the.
Speaker 4: Right, No traditional.
Speaker 2: I was trying to use a younger person term. Okay,
Speaker 2: pin pal like texting pin pals. It is my giant
Speaker 2: pet peeve when a man you map with a man
Speaker 2: on a dat map and they somehow manage their like, okay,
Speaker 2: well let's move this to texting.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, let's also plan.
Speaker 2: A date before we move to the text scene, because
Speaker 2: as soon as we get numbers, it becomes this pin
Speaker 2: pal exchange for months, and.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what are we doing?
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't care. I don't even know you enough.
Speaker 2: To care yet because I haven't met you.
Speaker 3: Heck, I don't even know if you look like.
Speaker 2: Your profile pictures, let alone the fact if you are
Speaker 2: actually a real person. So no, I don't want to
Speaker 2: hear about your day five times over until I meet you.
Speaker 4: So that's me with the dating apps.
Speaker 3: You don't even want to get to the point of
Speaker 3: finding out who they are.
Speaker 5: I mean, they don't put forth that effort right off
Speaker 5: the bat. So maybe I'm just like, oh, they're not
Speaker 5: asking me out to do anything right away, so I
Speaker 5: just don't answer.
Speaker 4: It's just like, Hi, how was your Monday?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 4: It was good? What do you do? Blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, let's get to the point.
Speaker 3: Okay, I agree with that. How are you?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 2: I had a dating coach on but before you came on,
Speaker 2: and her name's Erica, and she's so blunt and just
Speaker 2: so she cuts out the noise in dating and I
Speaker 2: love that about her, and she one of the things
Speaker 2: she hates is asking how are you? It's the most
Speaker 2: stupid in death defying part of a conversation when you're
Speaker 2: getting to know somebody.
Speaker 3: So part of that, though, I challenge you, is what's
Speaker 3: on your profile?
Speaker 2: Because she also challenged me in this okay, and if
Speaker 2: you put detailed stuff on your profile opens up. Now
Speaker 2: there's always gonna be lazy people. There's always going to
Speaker 2: be lazy matches. There's always going to be attractive men
Speaker 2: who don't care, and there's gonna be unattractive men who
Speaker 2: also care, and.
Speaker 3: All across the board of the variety.
Speaker 2: Of things you will receive now more often than not, though,
Speaker 2: if you have your profile intentionally filled out, you're going
Speaker 2: to get better responses and better engaging conversation based off
Speaker 2: your prompts. Okay, so do you feel like you've intentionally
Speaker 2: filled out your prompts on your dating app?
Speaker 4: No, I'm a dry sense of humor girl.
Speaker 3: That's okay, that's a good thing.
Speaker 5: So I'm kind of like goofy in a way.
Speaker 4: So I'll put jokes we love.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just kind of showing a little bit of my personnel,
Speaker 5: like I'm serious, but like I'm not super serious all
Speaker 5: the time. I make them so quick. You haven't gone
Speaker 5: over my bumbles or hinges?
Speaker 2: Can I see and can we go over I'm gonna hear.
Speaker 3: Will you grab my phone too?
Speaker 2: And we'll we'll look at each other's This will be
Speaker 2: really good experience of what we're doing if we can
Speaker 2: provide feedback to each other.
Speaker 3: Which one are you on?
Speaker 4: I'm on bumble?
Speaker 2: Okay, I have my hinge profile, so we're like on
Speaker 2: different dating apps.
Speaker 3: But this will be good. Okay, you have it pulled up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: are you ready?
Speaker 4: We're swapping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're okay. I'm gonna go first. You can look
Speaker 2: everyone I know, so do you, But I want to
Speaker 2: go first. Okay, Jamie's new here, You're always new here.
Speaker 3: It looks like you go in and out of relationships
Speaker 3: all the time because you're.
Speaker 5: Like, I know, you probably looks so bad. The guy's
Speaker 5: probably seem to go, whoa, now they're failed thing. This
Speaker 5: girl's probably crazy, not.
Speaker 3: That far but a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, we love the first We love this picture.
Speaker 2: I love this picture.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: The one thing I'll say, as I'm gonna go down
Speaker 2: as this, I think we need to show your face
Speaker 2: in the first photo because first photo is what matters.
Speaker 2: The first photo is like all of it combined. Do
Speaker 2: you want to show like a full body first?
Speaker 3: You want to like it's just like a first impression,
Speaker 3: the first thing. Now, like you're hot.
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued, but I don't know entirely what you look like.
Speaker 2: It's also a mistake a lot of guys make because
Speaker 2: they put so many freaking pictures of them in sunglasses
Speaker 2: and do you know how much sunglasses, change of face, Yes,
Speaker 2: so much. Okay, we have very detailed information about who.
Speaker 3: You are, what you're looking for. This is great.
Speaker 2: You should always fill out all of it because that's
Speaker 2: how you narrow it down. That's some people fill out nothing.
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, I don't know who you are, what
Speaker 2: you're looking for. That benefits me zero. You could be
Speaker 2: the most attractive person in the world and swipe left right.
Speaker 2: Second picture is great. I even think you swap them
Speaker 2: again cause you can see your face better. You see
Speaker 2: who you are. You're smiling. There's no RBF happening. Correct,
Speaker 2: You got to open up a little bit. Your Your
Speaker 2: first prompt is my ultimate green flag is no one
Speaker 2: lies with brown eyes.
Speaker 3: Okay, funny, Jamie, I'm already looking at the prompts.
Speaker 4: The prompts gotta change.
Speaker 2: I think it's hilarious, but that doesn't tell anybody one.
Speaker 3: They don't have anything to.
Speaker 2: Go off of there besides saying like I have brown eyes.
Speaker 3: And that's literally not gonna help you.
Speaker 2: Low key, I think I am addicted to cheese.
Speaker 4: I feel like I wanted it is blindly fight.
Speaker 3: You were drunk on a Friday night, were like, let me.
Speaker 5: This was Sunday. This was Sunday after the Super Bowl,
Speaker 5: after I had takeout Chinese and I was like, I'm
Speaker 5: gonna make bumble and put it on airplay on my
Speaker 5: TV and just was laughing.
Speaker 2: Okay, so you made this attention of laughing again, lack
Speaker 2: of intentionality. I think, low Ki, you're addicted to cheese
Speaker 2: is great, but I can relate, and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people can't. But I think you need to
Speaker 2: add some more to this, Like you love Mozzarella Stix
Speaker 2: and both of our favorite ones are at Ella's and
Speaker 2: at Like Side Lounge in Nashville.
Speaker 3: Add that to their like, be like these are my
Speaker 3: two favorite places.
Speaker 2: It gives them something to talk about from different places
Speaker 2: and potentially somewhere.
Speaker 3: To meet for a first date.
Speaker 5: Okay, to bring up Ella's. You're smart about that one.
Speaker 5: I like it.
Speaker 3: We just add some detail. You're not giving them a
Speaker 3: lot of room to make a move.
Speaker 5: Because I'm closed off black cat energy.
Speaker 2: I think overall the photos and stuff are good. I'd
Speaker 2: swap so you have a really great first image shot
Speaker 2: of who you are in the first one. Unfortunately, in
Speaker 2: this dating world. What I've learned from Miss Erica all
Speaker 2: I'm doing is taking what she's given me and translating
Speaker 2: it back to you. Is to make it so easy
Speaker 2: to know who you are and what you want and
Speaker 2: what you want to talk about.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: It takes out any of the guesswork of dating, and
Speaker 2: then I think you have greater chances for success. And
Speaker 2: then I think you don't hate the dating apps as much.
Speaker 5: That's true, and that kind of like brings me back
Speaker 5: to like what I've feedback I've gotten from dating was
Speaker 5: that I was hard to read. They weren't sure, It
Speaker 5: wasn't upfront. I'm just kind of like, well, read my mind,
Speaker 5: and I guess that is showing that as well well
Speaker 5: on paper a little bit.
Speaker 3: A little bit. But also you're not like that as
Speaker 3: a person.
Speaker 2: You've had a reason to be closed off, and you've
Speaker 2: had a reason in dating to not want to be
Speaker 2: open and not have these experiences with people. But this
Speaker 2: is where your growth comes into play, and you have
Speaker 2: to trust yourself enough to know that you've done the
Speaker 2: work and you've done all the right things that you
Speaker 2: have to open up to be willing to have any
Speaker 2: of this happen to you. And you can also because
Speaker 2: I know you like more traditional, you can still have
Speaker 2: somebody who will put forth the effort and plan things
Speaker 2: and do things for you. As long as I put
Speaker 2: everything out on the playing field where I'm like, Hey,
Speaker 2: this is what I like, this is who I am,
Speaker 2: this is what I'm expecting.
Speaker 3: I set me and them up for success in a.
Speaker 2: Relationship versus me trying to get them to understand. Now,
Speaker 2: that's very different than you having to teach somebody something
Speaker 2: multiple times over and hoping for a different result.
Speaker 3: That's not the same thing.
Speaker 2: But I do think there's a little bit in you
Speaker 2: that really just wants them to be traditional and make
Speaker 2: some moves and do things, which they can, but they
Speaker 2: do have to have a little knowledge on you to do.
Speaker 3: So, right.
Speaker 4: They don't want to go in completely blind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nobi does, just like you on the other side.
Speaker 2: But I know that's hard because of what you're looking for.
Speaker 2: But you have to give a little to get a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not just I love cheese, No, give them a little
Speaker 2: bit more than that, you know, like what kind.
Speaker 3: Of and maybe where we can go.
Speaker 2: Other than that, you look amazing. I'm proud of you
Speaker 2: for being on the dating apps.
Speaker 3: I'm there, you are there.
Speaker 2: But maybe they're going to help you have a better
Speaker 2: experience with the dating apps.
Speaker 3: Yes, if you want to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also support you if you want to keep
Speaker 2: trying to find someone to look in real life. But
Speaker 2: just given the state of dating, I know it's a
Speaker 2: little bit more unlikely to have really great multiple experiences.
Speaker 3: IRL give me the breakdown.
Speaker 2: You can be ruthless black cat energy.
Speaker 5: This isn't anything to be ruthless about. Though you look gorgeous.
Speaker 5: I love this picture of you in the red dress.
Speaker 5: That Christmas picture.
Speaker 4: Is very Morgan.
Speaker 5: And then which is worth splurging on? So she has
Speaker 5: some questions. A great dinner, a fun experience, A vacation, Yes,
Speaker 5: that can say a lot about someone.
Speaker 3: Yes you did you know?
Speaker 2: Sneakly what I always want them to say, like, really
Speaker 2: the correct there is a correct answer in.
Speaker 3: There, experience or a vacation. I agree with all of
Speaker 3: them in different settings, but vacation is really what I'm
Speaker 3: looking for, mostly because it's somebody who's looking at a
Speaker 3: bigger picture.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, I see that point.
Speaker 2: There's not really technically a wrong answer. They could say
Speaker 2: all of them if they have a good reason, then cool.
Speaker 5: Biggest risk I've taken taking a brand new jeep off
Speaker 5: roading was zero experience and getting stuck within the first
Speaker 5: five minutes to ten would do it again, my girl, because.
Speaker 4: It is the TV of now.
Speaker 2: No, it was one that I got loaned for the weekend.
Speaker 2: Oh no, and I got stuck in a track rad
Speaker 2: to full.
Speaker 5: As because then he's like, oh, I could help you
Speaker 5: with that?
Speaker 4: Is he enough?
Speaker 3: I've had that. I've had those responses.
Speaker 5: Guess where this photo was taken? You strutting it in Europe?
Speaker 5: Is that in Barcelona?
Speaker 2: I look like a world traveler and they're all from
Speaker 2: the same time where you literally do it's the fits.
Speaker 5: It looks great and it like if he's looking through
Speaker 5: your profile intentionally, he would select vacation.
Speaker 3: Then mm hmmm, so that's good. See he pays attention
Speaker 3: hidden Easter eggs. We like a man that pays attention
Speaker 3: and is intentional.
Speaker 5: My simple pleasures Patatas Patatas, piatas bravas on a weeknight
Speaker 5: hiking at sunset with my dog Coco Dulche chocolates.
Speaker 3: Yeah you got it.
Speaker 5: Helping animals get adopted and binging a show while ordering
Speaker 5: takeout from multiple places. Yeah, he could select one in
Speaker 5: your set.
Speaker 2: He could go on in the avenue there now, granted
Speaker 2: you are looking at my dame profile. After I did
Speaker 2: this interview with Erica that we had earlier, I went
Speaker 2: back and added details. So I had some of those prompts,
Speaker 2: but they were much less detail.
Speaker 3: I did not have a lot to them.
Speaker 2: They were kind of like quick answers, a lot like yours.
Speaker 2: I just edited my refreshened it up two weeks ago.
Speaker 5: So I feel like my plainness and maybe you can
Speaker 5: relate to this is kind of I've always had a
Speaker 5: fear of talking too much or sharing too much, and
Speaker 5: like they just don't care. So I feel like I
Speaker 5: channel that when writing about myself because I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: they just don't they don't care, Like I don't want to.
Speaker 5: I don't want to overdo it. I don't want to
Speaker 5: overstep because I was constantly told it's too much, like
Speaker 5: leave me alone, like whatever, like that kind of energy back.
Speaker 5: So I feel like I have that sort of fear
Speaker 5: to do that. So seeing this, I'm like, oh, but.
Speaker 3: This fear, it should no longer exist. It's it's valid
Speaker 3: that you have it because you've been told that.
Speaker 2: I've been told that you know how many times I've
Speaker 2: been told them too much, or what I'm looking for,
Speaker 2: I'm asking for too much.
Speaker 3: Or et cetera.
Speaker 2: Go on, hm, but you're not. Nothing about you is
Speaker 2: too much. If anything, what you're going to do is
Speaker 2: filter through the person who's going.
Speaker 3: To tell you that you don't want right.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you rather know right across the bat that that
Speaker 2: person is not somebody that you want to be with,
Speaker 2: versus getting four or five dates in and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm too much for this person. Yeah, And I feel
Speaker 2: that I've gone on dates with guys where I'm like, well, dang,
Speaker 2: they're not interested in what I have to say, and
Speaker 2: they love to talk about themselves.
Speaker 3: It's lovely, but this is not for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you will pick up on that, and that's
Speaker 2: what helps you find that again, back to the dating.
Speaker 2: Very intentionally, you're crossing people off who cannot handle you,
Speaker 2: and you aren't too much. You are literally not too much.
Speaker 2: I don't know who else needs to hear that out there,
Speaker 2: but nothing about you is too much. You are exactly
Speaker 2: who you are supposed to be.
Speaker 5: Keep showing up, you should, and you're a.
Speaker 3: Great human being. And what you have to say matters.
Speaker 3: What you care about matters.
Speaker 2: I hate that there's people out there as partners who've
Speaker 2: made both of us feel that way, and a lot
Speaker 2: of people feel that way. But just because you're too
Speaker 2: much for somebody doesn't mean you're not going to be
Speaker 2: just the right much for the right person. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: don't forget that and don't let that sway.
Speaker 3: You and changing your pup. But it makes sense.
Speaker 5: That that's yeah, you hold back a little bit.
Speaker 2: And it's funny that, like you looking at mine made
Speaker 2: you like kind of click that because.
Speaker 5: I know like your experiences and it's pretty similar in
Speaker 5: both realms, so it's like, oh, we'regan sharing all of this. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so I'm like, huh okay, I love this, Like it
Speaker 5: makes me think like, oh yeah, that's totally her, and
Speaker 5: then if someone were to read that, it makes it
Speaker 5: easier to understand the person as well.
Speaker 2: So mm hmm okay, So what do you think give
Speaker 2: me a a my new profile? I think it's great
Speaker 2: you haven't roasted me at all. Can you roast me
Speaker 2: at at least a little bit? I feel like I
Speaker 2: deserve it from you. You're not giving very black cat.
Speaker 3: Energy right now. You're giving me, my golden retriever.
Speaker 4: This is my true self.
Speaker 2: I know this is your true self is a podcast,
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 4: My true form.
Speaker 3: Everybody.
Speaker 4: Don't let the front fool you.
Speaker 2: But you do also roast me, and you keep me checked.
Speaker 2: You really do keep me, You keep me aligne.
Speaker 5: I do think you've taken a bigger risk than a
Speaker 5: off roading. I do think there's being true. But it's
Speaker 5: a great conversation starter.
Speaker 4: So that's why I can't roast it. That's just you.
Speaker 5: I'm asking you to open up more there. But like
Speaker 5: that's your profile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's my fair that's honestly the only one
Speaker 2: I can come up with.
Speaker 3: That kind of makes me look cool, but not really cool.
Speaker 2: It's cool that I wanted to do it, but it's
Speaker 2: like not cool that, like I couldn't do it. I
Speaker 2: do wish I had a little bit more sillier photos
Speaker 2: or stuff. You know something I've really realized across my
Speaker 2: friendships and stuff, really, honestly, until our friendship, you're the
Speaker 2: first person who really actively takes we take impromp two
Speaker 2: photos of each other.
Speaker 3: But I've never really had that in a friendship before.
Speaker 2: I just don't know that any of my friends really
Speaker 2: cared enough in the same way, Like you and I
Speaker 2: both love taking photos.
Speaker 3: That's just something we like to do.
Speaker 2: So we take just funny photos of each other all
Speaker 2: the time, versus despite like just asking like, hey, can
Speaker 2: you take a.
Speaker 3: Photo of me? We just do it. Yeah, And this
Speaker 3: is the first friendship where that's happened. So I don't
Speaker 3: really have what I wish I have was more like
Speaker 3: kind of.
Speaker 2: Impromptu, like silly, goofy photos when I'm truly my alter
Speaker 2: ego because she's a riot, she's great, are my first?
Speaker 3: Always done that for me.
Speaker 5: We have a whole summer coming up to build this.
Speaker 3: We do hot girl summer? Is that gonna be a
Speaker 3: thing again. I don't think I have the capacity for
Speaker 3: another hot girl summer.
Speaker 5: I don't even think last summer was a hot girl summer.
Speaker 5: I honestly can I admit. I think I blacked out
Speaker 5: last year. I did so much last year. When I
Speaker 5: think of like summer, I'm like, wow, that was two
Speaker 5: years ago. No, honey, you haven't even reached a year yet.
Speaker 2: And I got to the point where I was like,
Speaker 2: I can't do this anymore, Jamie, I'm tired.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't that I didn't want to have with you.
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't be out in the world anymore.
Speaker 3: I seen say no to all kinds of things I know.
Speaker 4: And then I.
Speaker 3: Started going on dates again. I was like, I hate dating.
Speaker 3: This is horrible. I literally would text me be like
Speaker 3: I have a date, FMN.
Speaker 4: No track me.
Speaker 5: So I'm like, I get up atfore in the morning
Speaker 5: to work out, and I'm just like, I wake up
Speaker 5: in the middle and I was like, where's Morgan.
Speaker 4: You good?
Speaker 3: Okay? Like I haven't had a four night a hot minute.
Speaker 5: We've been boring lately. Halloween fall had a wild.
Speaker 4: Hair, we had feral fall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was feral girl fall. It was so good.
Speaker 3: But then Christmas we weren't even a feral We really weren't.
Speaker 3: It was fun to say that we were.
Speaker 4: But we're all talk guys.
Speaker 3: I think I've slowed down a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean, even again, just going on a few days
Speaker 2: from the dating apps.
Speaker 3: I've been on quite a few and I'm just tired.
Speaker 3: I'm so exhausted. Yeah, I can't keep up with it.
Speaker 4: My fear.
Speaker 5: See, Morgan, I live through you and I watch you.
Speaker 4: I don't live through me.
Speaker 3: I need somebody else. To experience when I'm experiencing.
Speaker 5: Having been the youngest sibling, I've always watched what my
Speaker 5: older brother would do. And then when I have like
Speaker 5: friends that are doing other things, I'm very intentional with them.
Speaker 5: I kind of experience and watch like, yeah, it's not
Speaker 5: for me.
Speaker 4: I don't want to go through that.
Speaker 2: We are very different variations of the youngest child. We
Speaker 2: are both youngest. You like sit and observe.
Speaker 3: I would watch and be like, I'm doing that.
Speaker 4: I just did it all.
Speaker 5: You did it.
Speaker 4: I do it.
Speaker 3: Okay, you did that. I do that. I'm just a
Speaker 3: little spitfire.
Speaker 5: I feel like I've done things that they haven't or
Speaker 5: they have mentioned they would maybe want to. I'm like,
Speaker 5: I'll probably just do it, like moving across the country
Speaker 5: through big little curveball to the family. Now that is
Speaker 5: true for no reason, there's nothing here for me.
Speaker 3: Isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2: What happens when you just take a different jump or
Speaker 2: a leap of faith if you will, in a different
Speaker 2: direction that you really didn't see coming.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, Like scared to take the leap with someone else,
Speaker 5: but you, I'm trusting myself enough and showing the trust
Speaker 5: in myself to take leaps for myself, like moving here
Speaker 5: m hm and just letting it happen.
Speaker 2: Dating can be so exhausting, and when you've gotten to
Speaker 2: a place in your life where you kind of might
Speaker 2: be there too. I'm definitely in place now where I'm
Speaker 2: just so happy and I'm so comfortable and i have
Speaker 2: the life that I want that it's going to take
Speaker 2: a very special person to come in and allow them
Speaker 2: in that space and that really comfortable place that I've created,
Speaker 2: especially after coming out of my last relationship, where I
Speaker 2: really had confidence that this was one a great person
Speaker 2: in somebody that I could see myself having a future
Speaker 2: with to being blindsided. I'm now even more cautious than
Speaker 2: I already was before I started dating him, And that
Speaker 2: does scare me a little bit, because I was very
Speaker 2: cautious going into that and very protective of myself, and
Speaker 2: I've been protective not even just with him, but the
Speaker 2: ex before him, after experiences that I had, and both
Speaker 2: times I kind of got screwed, and not unlike in
Speaker 2: this recent one, it was a better screwed than the
Speaker 2: last one.
Speaker 4: At least it was just it didn't work out.
Speaker 3: It's a better screwed, you know, an.
Speaker 4: I find him.
Speaker 3: It's I love it.
Speaker 2: Was a better screwed it because like I was blindsided,
Speaker 2: but he didn't hurt me in the capacity that I
Speaker 2: had been hurt before. He just hurt me in a
Speaker 2: different emotional way. It does scare me because I've tried
Speaker 2: so hard to like use my growth, be who I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to be and and really like channel this safe
Speaker 2: energy and have the right boundaries and do all the
Speaker 2: right things. And just like the dating apps, I'm doing
Speaker 2: all the things I'm supposed to be doing. I'm being intentional,
Speaker 2: I'm looking at quality, I'm paying attention. And one love
Speaker 2: the space I've created, don't.
Speaker 3: Really want to let anybody in.
Speaker 2: And two I'm so tired of I had to do
Speaker 2: all of that stuff just to get here, and now
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 3: To go on dates, you know what I mean. Like
Speaker 3: it's so much work.
Speaker 2: And so much effort, and I'm tired.
Speaker 4: Energy for this.
Speaker 5: I don't Yeah, And I like back to the screwed
Speaker 5: in a better way kind of thing, a less hard.
Speaker 5: It's like we go through these lessons multiple times and
Speaker 5: it's like, Okay, this was like a different version of
Speaker 5: the lesson. This time I was guarding I was more
Speaker 5: aware of everything, but it still happened to me. So
Speaker 5: I feel like we constantly go and I have a
Speaker 5: fear of going through the things again. So I always
Speaker 5: like look at you and I'm like proud of you
Speaker 5: because you face it, you've gone through it, and you're
Speaker 5: like all right, suit back up, go back out there.
Speaker 5: Where I'm like, yeah, I've felt that before.
Speaker 4: I ain't feeling that again.
Speaker 5: But it's like you kind of got to open up
Speaker 5: the hands and let it happen because the lessons are
Speaker 5: going to keep coming and the right person is going
Speaker 5: to come in, step in and make everything feel safe.
Speaker 2: You are very good at that, You're very good at
Speaker 2: the hopeful side. And potentially that's because I have done
Speaker 2: quite a bit of dating and we are on different
Speaker 2: plane fields, I guess when it comes to that.
Speaker 3: So your optimism and your hope is still there where
Speaker 3: mine is like a little bit cracked.
Speaker 5: Been like super It's just like I've seen it, is
Speaker 5: it forky?
Speaker 2: I am, I'm arety forky whatever, And I'm just like
Speaker 2: hanging on bath thread.
Speaker 5: I'm holding her like Woodie, come.
Speaker 2: On, buddy, if that doesn't define who we are, And
Speaker 2: like dating, I'm like no, you don't understand.
Speaker 3: I've seen and done some things and I'm tired. I'm good.
Speaker 4: It's so true.
Speaker 5: The image is like, I think that to be our
Speaker 5: Halloween cost.
Speaker 3: I was just about to say, I think we have
Speaker 3: our next Halloween cost.
Speaker 2: But can you to end us on a highlight positive note,
Speaker 2: because you are so good at instilling hope back in me,
Speaker 2: can you leave us all on some piece of hope
Speaker 2: When it comes to love and being single and finding
Speaker 2: our person.
Speaker 5: Life is always going to be beautiful and you always have
Speaker 5: love around you. And love may not be with the
Speaker 5: romantic side, but love comes into your life in so
Speaker 5: many different forms, your animals, your friends that come along
Speaker 5: that are new, your old friends, some old friends that
Speaker 5: you don't talk to anymore. But that love is still
Speaker 5: there no matter what. Holding on to the romantic side
Speaker 5: it's kind of going to stray you away from what's
Speaker 5: right in front of you with everybody else. So I've
Speaker 5: just kind of this year is just being a little
Speaker 5: more intentional with the people that do love me, and
Speaker 5: I know they're going to guide me to who is
Speaker 5: going to be in love with me and who I'm
Speaker 5: going to be in love with as well.
Speaker 3: See yourself being.
Speaker 4: Helpful, little teer.
Speaker 2: I'm hopeful in every aspect of my life besides this one,
Speaker 2: and you put it back into me. So thank you
Speaker 2: for doing it for everybody. Of course, thank you for
Speaker 2: talking with me and allowing us.
Speaker 5: To go over our dating yourself together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now you know, sit me out on another date
Speaker 2: and I'll come back a little broke it again.
Speaker 4: Let's try you remind me about love.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have a sporkys eyebrow hanging off and it'll
Speaker 2: be fine. I just like, what is the love, Jamie, Jamie,
Speaker 2: The amount of breakup playlist I have is insane.
Speaker 3: We don't need to walk down that road love it.
Speaker 4: Anyways.
Speaker 3: I hope everybody had a great outside straight and Jamie,
Speaker 3: thanks for being here. I love you. You're amazing.
Speaker 4: I love you too. Morgan.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining this week's love or anti love episode,
Speaker 2: depending on how you look at it. I truly hope
Speaker 2: you enjoyed it. And for all my single people, I
Speaker 2: hope you feel seen on this week's episode. And if
Speaker 2: you're looking for love all around you, much like Jamie suggests,
Speaker 2: then I hope you know that I love you and
Speaker 2: I'm really happy that you're here.
Speaker 3: Bye friends,