WEBVTT - Spellling 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:22.316 Pushkin. I'm excited today to share a conversation with my 0:00:22.436 --> 0:00:26.716 friend Tia Cabral, also known as Spelling. I've known Spelling 0:00:26.796 --> 0:00:29.076 since before she started making music a bit over a 0:00:29.116 --> 0:00:31.636 decade ago, and I'll never forget when I first heard 0:00:31.636 --> 0:00:34.076 some of the songs that became her sophomore album, The 0:00:34.156 --> 0:00:37.596 Turning Wheel. It blew me away. For this friend, who 0:00:37.596 --> 0:00:39.836 I've known for so long, to just be casually demoing 0:00:39.876 --> 0:00:43.276 these beautiful songs with such a gorgeous voice, that was astonished. 0:00:44.156 --> 0:00:46.636 Mind you, that album got a rare perfect ten rating 0:00:46.636 --> 0:00:50.076 from Anthony Fantano. Her latest album, Portrait of My Heart, 0:00:50.236 --> 0:00:53.916 sees Spelling taking yet another leap, pushing her avant garde 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:57.716 pop and even rock sensibilities to another level, adding new 0:00:57.756 --> 0:01:01.756 dimensions to the mysticism and drama imbued in her music. Today, 0:01:01.796 --> 0:01:04.836 Spelling opens up about her journey from teaching to touring, 0:01:05.076 --> 0:01:07.276 what it means to build a sonic universe where every 0:01:07.356 --> 0:01:10.636 detail is intentional, the early days of her musical journey, 0:01:10.716 --> 0:01:16.356 when she was just getting started. This is broken record, 0:01:16.796 --> 0:01:27.236 real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with Spelling. We 0:01:27.236 --> 0:01:30.116 should talk about the new album because there's a lot 0:01:30.156 --> 0:01:32.476 more guitar, and then as the album progresses there gets 0:01:32.516 --> 0:01:36.116 to be even more guitar. It's really cool, but it was, 0:01:36.156 --> 0:01:38.876 but it was shocking. But maybe before we get to 0:01:38.916 --> 0:01:42.636 talking about the guitar, just what was the genesis of 0:01:43.076 --> 0:01:43.956 your new album? 0:01:44.396 --> 0:01:47.956 The genesis, I mean, it's the same kind of approach 0:01:47.996 --> 0:01:51.276 I always take, which is I'm just channeling my mood. 0:01:52.036 --> 0:01:56.396 And I felt as though what I noticed after putting 0:01:56.396 --> 0:01:59.436 out The Turning Wheel and touring a little bit and 0:01:59.516 --> 0:02:01.916 just kind of that felt like this turning point in 0:02:01.916 --> 0:02:04.916 my life where this is what I'm doing with my 0:02:04.996 --> 0:02:08.436 life kind of a thing, whereas before it was I 0:02:08.556 --> 0:02:10.836 was just you're meaning a lot, And I didn't imagine 0:02:10.876 --> 0:02:14.836 my day to day being oriented around making music or 0:02:14.996 --> 0:02:19.876 performing music really until post Turning Wheel. And there's a 0:02:19.916 --> 0:02:24.356 lot of variables to that. I think I'm in my thirties, 0:02:24.476 --> 0:02:30.676 Like I didn't really actually activate this craft until I 0:02:30.756 --> 0:02:33.956 was in my like mid twenties, you know, So there 0:02:34.036 --> 0:02:36.916 was this I felt like I'd already gone through this 0:02:36.956 --> 0:02:39.956 evolution in my life where I felt like I know 0:02:39.996 --> 0:02:42.716 who I am, you know, I have this sense of 0:02:42.756 --> 0:02:46.756 self and confidence that's not rooted in being a musician, 0:02:47.316 --> 0:02:50.396 so you know, going through that, putting out the album, 0:02:50.476 --> 0:02:53.636 getting like an amazing amount of support for it and 0:02:55.116 --> 0:02:58.916 growing my audience and all that, and I just was like, whoa, 0:02:58.996 --> 0:03:01.796 I feel like I'm having this second sort of adolescence 0:03:02.236 --> 0:03:05.636 in my life where I'm like once again being shaken up, 0:03:05.636 --> 0:03:08.436 like having an identity crisis almost like who am I now? 0:03:08.596 --> 0:03:13.476 And how does this change my life path? And all 0:03:13.516 --> 0:03:16.796 of those things and just insecurities coming up I just 0:03:16.876 --> 0:03:19.236 never thought I'd have to encounter again, Like I already 0:03:19.316 --> 0:03:21.796 went through this as a teenager, just being like what 0:03:21.836 --> 0:03:24.916 does it mean to like, you know, my image, my 0:03:25.116 --> 0:03:29.716 relationships and my romantic connections, my friendships, all of that 0:03:29.756 --> 0:03:35.356 started to kind of get re oriented around now pursuing 0:03:35.396 --> 0:03:39.516 this thing like full full force and full heartedly, and 0:03:39.556 --> 0:03:42.916 so Portrait of my Heart. A lot of those songs 0:03:43.556 --> 0:03:45.676 are just like, yeah, stepping back into that sort of 0:03:45.716 --> 0:03:50.356 adolescent space of like oh man, just like a restlessness, 0:03:50.516 --> 0:03:55.196 sort of angst, a lot of grasping and questioning at 0:03:55.476 --> 0:03:58.876 those sort of things that I just already thought I 0:03:58.916 --> 0:03:59.996 had figured out. 0:04:00.996 --> 0:04:03.116 Would you say it's the songs to you are more 0:04:03.756 --> 0:04:06.436 questioning and reaching than your last record. 0:04:06.676 --> 0:04:09.996 Just in a different scale. And I think prior to this, 0:04:10.556 --> 0:04:14.316 I had a lot of comfort in my home space, 0:04:14.676 --> 0:04:18.676 and I you know, had my like spiritual practices and routines, 0:04:18.716 --> 0:04:21.276 like I meditate, I spend time in nature, and like 0:04:21.316 --> 0:04:25.036 I was channeling from there, like my interests in like 0:04:25.796 --> 0:04:31.516 you know, occult arts and magic and spirituality and cosmology 0:04:31.596 --> 0:04:33.116 like all of that stuff. Like I spent a lot 0:04:33.156 --> 0:04:36.356 of time reading and researching and just writing, and so 0:04:36.836 --> 0:04:40.436 I would draw from that, like and I think things 0:04:40.436 --> 0:04:43.076 were you know, there's songs on Turning Wheel that are 0:04:43.196 --> 0:04:46.036 very much about like love and romance and connection, but 0:04:46.156 --> 0:04:51.276 kind of more pointed in this like cosmic scale loves 0:04:51.316 --> 0:04:53.916 in like universal love or you know, like love is 0:04:53.956 --> 0:04:58.076 in cosmic love and that kind of analogy. But with 0:04:58.436 --> 0:05:00.756 Portrait of my Heart, it's just it's more one to one. 0:05:00.956 --> 0:05:05.156 It's more just like tea and real life situations and 0:05:05.236 --> 0:05:09.556 like personal affairs and my own matters of a heart. 0:05:09.796 --> 0:05:13.876 So yeah, it's a big shift. And now now that 0:05:13.916 --> 0:05:17.076 I'm talking about it, it's like, oh, yeah, this is 0:05:17.116 --> 0:05:19.196 about to come out, and this is like my life, 0:05:19.236 --> 0:05:22.116 and it's it's a little weird. It's it's like way 0:05:22.156 --> 0:05:23.556 more vulnerable. 0:05:23.196 --> 0:05:27.236 Wow, it's interesting because I would have thought the opposite, 0:05:27.316 --> 0:05:30.276 not that I mean both seem very sincere, but I 0:05:30.276 --> 0:05:34.436 would have thought that that Turning Wheel was more directly 0:05:34.516 --> 0:05:37.236 to do with your everyday life and sort of more 0:05:38.556 --> 0:05:41.116 maybe more actually a portrait of your heart than this one. 0:05:41.156 --> 0:05:43.276 But I guess that's why, and I guess that's why 0:05:43.276 --> 0:05:44.036 you title this one. 0:05:44.796 --> 0:05:48.036 It's all InTru laced too, you know, like it's just 0:05:48.116 --> 0:05:50.076 kind of what I was, what I was describing as 0:05:50.116 --> 0:05:53.636 being on a different scale. And but yeah, they're both. 0:05:53.916 --> 0:05:57.716 I think the through line is intimacy. I think that's 0:05:57.716 --> 0:06:00.236 a big theme on all the things that I make, 0:06:00.436 --> 0:06:06.716 is like intimacy with the self and with relationship or 0:06:07.036 --> 0:06:10.116 connection to spirit and the those kinds of things are 0:06:10.476 --> 0:06:13.836 carrying through since Pantheon of Me and to Portrait of 0:06:13.876 --> 0:06:16.436 my Heart as well. 0:06:16.716 --> 0:06:21.116 Since you talked about like having different practices, whether it's 0:06:21.156 --> 0:06:24.396 meditation or just kind of communing with nature. Is music 0:06:24.436 --> 0:06:26.556 another version of that for you? 0:06:27.356 --> 0:06:30.196 Yeah? Absolutely, it kind of feels like for me it 0:06:30.436 --> 0:06:34.276 was the big piece of like, Oh, I found where 0:06:34.276 --> 0:06:38.236 I can really direct my purpose and feel like I 0:06:38.276 --> 0:06:43.876 can direct my like particular gifts and talents in the 0:06:43.956 --> 0:06:47.116 right way, and so music is that for me. And 0:06:48.156 --> 0:06:51.236 it's kind of like my big take on spirituality in 0:06:51.236 --> 0:06:55.836 general is just what can you do to you know, 0:06:55.956 --> 0:07:01.276 elevate your like best abilities and you know, make an impact. 0:07:01.636 --> 0:07:07.756 I struggle with connecting to people, even though I want to, 0:07:08.516 --> 0:07:10.836 and I yeah, and I think that music kind of 0:07:10.876 --> 0:07:12.876 like always helps me to bridge that. Like it's the 0:07:12.916 --> 0:07:14.596 thing that connects me to all, like all let my 0:07:14.676 --> 0:07:17.436 relationships and friendships, even my family. 0:07:17.236 --> 0:07:20.476 Like how does that play out in your life? How 0:07:20.516 --> 0:07:21.996 does that look in your life? 0:07:22.356 --> 0:07:25.476 I mean it's really like it's really simple just sending 0:07:25.516 --> 0:07:27.836 songs back and forth with friends. It feels like I 0:07:27.836 --> 0:07:30.276 can know you so well just by that, you know. 0:07:30.396 --> 0:07:35.756 And my dad and I our relationship is really been 0:07:35.836 --> 0:07:38.916 kind of glued together through music, and you know, he'll 0:07:38.916 --> 0:07:40.916 send me YouTube videos back and forth throughout the week. 0:07:40.956 --> 0:07:43.116 That's kind of like how we mostly communicate is like 0:07:43.196 --> 0:07:46.956 through songs. And I don't know, I think like knowing 0:07:46.996 --> 0:07:50.596 what someone loves or what speaks to them is so 0:07:50.716 --> 0:07:52.996 special and it like just access to something you couldn't 0:07:53.036 --> 0:07:56.156 really describe really with words ever. And that's how I 0:07:56.156 --> 0:07:58.796 feel about just like speaking in general, too, Like I 0:07:58.836 --> 0:08:02.356 have such a hard time like saying what I mean 0:08:02.476 --> 0:08:04.876 and how I feel, but I can do it with music. 0:08:04.956 --> 0:08:09.716 And when I first met you, you were a writer. Yeah, 0:08:09.796 --> 0:08:12.836 it's how in my mind. Yeah, So when it comes 0:08:12.836 --> 0:08:16.036 to writing, though, you're able to organize and your thoughts 0:08:16.036 --> 0:08:19.276 and sort of clearly get out what you're trying to say. 0:08:18.756 --> 0:08:23.156 Better than like conversation for sure, But even then it's 0:08:23.196 --> 0:08:25.836 not as immediate like music just is like something that's 0:08:25.876 --> 0:08:30.156 just so immediate and it doesn't need like a translation 0:08:30.476 --> 0:08:32.196 for me, like I just feel like I can just 0:08:32.996 --> 0:08:36.476 act as a conduit. And yeah, I started off with writing. 0:08:36.956 --> 0:08:41.356 You know, you saw me doing poetry workshops and stuff 0:08:41.356 --> 0:08:44.396 like that, and that was what really launched me into 0:08:44.676 --> 0:08:48.756 making music. From there, I was like, oh, poetry is 0:08:48.796 --> 0:08:53.156 this other like vein of music where you can say 0:08:53.196 --> 0:08:55.676 a lot with just a few things and have all 0:08:55.716 --> 0:08:58.156 these multiple meanings and just a couple of words. And 0:08:58.236 --> 0:09:00.556 so I was playing around with that and then got 0:09:01.156 --> 0:09:10.156 a loot pedal and good, all right, I think I 0:09:10.196 --> 0:09:15.636 cringed thinking about that chapter of my life. We can 0:09:16.276 --> 0:09:17.876 we don't need people digging into that. 0:09:19.396 --> 0:09:21.476 But that was the first time I ever met you. 0:09:21.476 --> 0:09:22.636 Do you remember, do you remember meeting. 0:09:22.796 --> 0:09:24.116 Yeah at a workshop. 0:09:25.556 --> 0:09:29.996 Not at a workshop. We were on like telegraph and 0:09:29.996 --> 0:09:32.516 and you were, I think, just leaving a workshop. And 0:09:32.556 --> 0:09:37.076 I had walked from like downtown, but on foot on 0:09:37.516 --> 0:09:39.756 I was hooking it just like I was like, okay 0:09:39.756 --> 0:09:40.996 a bus. I was like waiting for a bus and 0:09:41.156 --> 0:09:42.836 was taking forever, so I wanted to start walking and 0:09:42.836 --> 0:09:46.356 a bus will eventually. I don't know how. I walked forever, 0:09:47.356 --> 0:09:50.396 and then finally a bus came and you came up. 0:09:50.596 --> 0:09:51.596 A couple of different other. 0:09:51.476 --> 0:09:54.036 People, Yeah, a couple of other poets, a couple of 0:09:54.076 --> 0:09:55.396 the poets telegraph. 0:09:55.956 --> 0:10:00.076 Casually a couple of the poets materialized and we rode 0:10:00.076 --> 0:10:02.196 the bus together. And that was Remember that was for 0:10:02.316 --> 0:10:03.636 something to me, like, yeah, we just came from this 0:10:03.716 --> 0:10:05.836 you like like we were still over there this poetry. 0:10:06.116 --> 0:10:09.996 Yeah, oh man, what a time. Yeah, it really felt 0:10:10.196 --> 0:10:15.156 like serendipitous, the friends I made along that journey, like 0:10:15.276 --> 0:10:18.396 being at E. C. Berkeley and yeah, really just like 0:10:18.516 --> 0:10:25.436 romanticizing walking around Telegraph Avenue, just like you were doing 0:10:25.476 --> 0:10:26.636 it my little journal. 0:10:29.356 --> 0:10:32.596 Yeah, but never did you know. It's fun And like 0:10:32.636 --> 0:10:36.356 you say, you feel now almost like you're reaching a 0:10:36.356 --> 0:10:41.076 second adolescence it's like I can relate because I never 0:10:41.116 --> 0:10:43.556 I feel younger in a way than I ever did, 0:10:43.556 --> 0:10:46.916 because back then I felt like old. I felt like 0:10:47.036 --> 0:10:48.516 or like I was like. 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:50.876 Like, like, do you have a timeless quality to you? 0:10:50.956 --> 0:10:53.276 I feel like you're like you could jump back back 0:10:53.316 --> 0:10:54.676 and forth and thank you. 0:10:54.756 --> 0:10:57.876 I'll accept that. I'd never considered that for myself, but 0:10:58.476 --> 0:11:00.916 maybe that's the truth. But like that, I felt like 0:11:00.956 --> 0:11:02.476 I was like running out of time. Like I don't 0:11:02.476 --> 0:11:03.956 know how to explain that, but I felt I was like, 0:11:04.556 --> 0:11:06.916 I remember when you picked up but then you were 0:11:06.956 --> 0:11:08.516 about to say you started picking up some loop pedals. 0:11:08.596 --> 0:11:11.716 If I remember were you getting music equipment? And I 0:11:11.716 --> 0:11:14.476 remember like looking at you and just being like are 0:11:14.596 --> 0:11:15.316 we too old for this? 0:11:15.436 --> 0:11:18.916 Ship? I remember this conversation I feel like we were 0:11:18.916 --> 0:11:21.396 talking about. I was like, I think I'm gonna start 0:11:21.476 --> 0:11:22.076 doing this. 0:11:22.036 --> 0:11:24.156 And you're like, I'm about to learn. Like you got 0:11:24.196 --> 0:11:26.596 like a keep, you were so excited you got a keyboard, 0:11:26.876 --> 0:11:29.356 and like all the time, I'm like like, and I 0:11:29.396 --> 0:11:31.556 think you know somewhere, I think you know I probably 0:11:31.556 --> 0:11:32.716 would have loved and have done the same thing. 0:11:32.876 --> 0:11:37.276 The time you're trying to take me down, aren't we aren't. 0:11:36.996 --> 0:11:41.076 We I just want to bring down with me, like 0:11:41.196 --> 0:11:42.756 I think we're like too old for this ship, Like 0:11:42.796 --> 0:11:44.716 what are you afterwards? 0:11:44.796 --> 0:11:48.396 Like let me see if I can what I can. Yeah, 0:11:48.556 --> 0:11:49.116 but it blew me. 0:11:49.116 --> 0:11:51.436 Away because like it's like you you started doing that 0:11:51.596 --> 0:11:54.716 and then like pretty quickly the music you were making 0:11:54.836 --> 0:11:55.236 was psycho. 0:11:55.316 --> 0:11:57.196 I mean, I'm glad that it was quick because I 0:11:57.236 --> 0:11:59.276 didn't have time to waste, you know, like if it 0:11:59.436 --> 0:12:02.756 was sorted out within the next few years, then what No. 0:12:03.036 --> 0:12:05.076 I mean, I think I've always had the mentality of 0:12:05.116 --> 0:12:08.316 feeling like a late bloomer, feeling like my pace is 0:12:08.396 --> 0:12:12.436 like a little bit behind everybody else. So good thing. 0:12:12.516 --> 0:12:14.916 I wasn't in that frame of mind where I want 0:12:15.356 --> 0:12:17.156 I wasn't running, you know. I was like this is 0:12:18.076 --> 0:12:22.196 this is happening, and I'm doing it and yeah, there 0:12:22.236 --> 0:12:24.956 there wasn't a lot of questioning right at that point 0:12:25.036 --> 0:12:27.396 in my life. Now there is. Now there's a lot 0:12:27.476 --> 0:12:31.276 more of like what's to come and what's next? And 0:12:32.436 --> 0:12:35.796 I you don't I have to actively work to like 0:12:36.276 --> 0:12:39.196 cast those thoughts away. But yeah, I'm curious, why do 0:12:39.236 --> 0:12:42.436 you feel like you're you feel like younger than you 0:12:42.476 --> 0:12:45.756 have previously, you feel like it's about sort of having 0:12:45.836 --> 0:12:49.796 some security that. 0:12:48.356 --> 0:12:51.476 That's a good question. I don't know. I think it's 0:12:51.476 --> 0:12:53.316 something to do with I don't know that that feeling 0:12:53.396 --> 0:12:57.476 of running out of time has gone away, Like I 0:12:57.476 --> 0:12:58.116 feel like I. 0:12:58.036 --> 0:13:00.436 Have coasting, So I don't know. 0:13:00.556 --> 0:13:03.676 No, I don't know about coasting as much as I 0:13:03.676 --> 0:13:06.556 hope I'm not gonna be maybe I hope not, though, No, 0:13:06.636 --> 0:13:08.916 but I just feel like I have more time than that, 0:13:09.556 --> 0:13:11.876 which is so I like the complete opposite feeling was 0:13:11.916 --> 0:13:13.956 whereas then I felt like there was not there was 0:13:14.036 --> 0:13:19.436 no time and I was late, and you know, like 0:13:19.516 --> 0:13:20.596 now I'm like, oh, there's. 0:13:20.436 --> 0:13:22.076 Nothing trying to catch that bus. 0:13:22.436 --> 0:13:25.036 Yeah, I just trying to catch that bus exactly. But 0:13:25.036 --> 0:13:27.116 but now, yeah, I guess maybe now I'm on the 0:13:27.116 --> 0:13:29.276 bus and I'm like, yo, there's there's nothing but time. 0:13:29.716 --> 0:13:31.676 And so it's just that it's just a feeling. I 0:13:31.716 --> 0:13:34.156 don't know if it's even like a real thing. 0:13:34.236 --> 0:13:37.796 I mean, I think that's a real that thing that 0:13:37.836 --> 0:13:40.436 can manifest physically though, Like I feel like you can 0:13:41.276 --> 0:13:44.996 pause or slow down time depending on your perspective and mentality. 0:13:45.036 --> 0:13:48.756 It's like it stretches and it contracts and it condenses 0:13:48.956 --> 0:13:52.716 like depending on all of those things. But like you're 0:13:52.876 --> 0:13:56.116 time traveling different than I am and everybody else. It's 0:13:56.396 --> 0:13:59.076 an interesting sensation. I feel like time is just like 0:13:59.316 --> 0:14:02.396 rapidly going by so fast, Like I feel like I'm 0:14:02.396 --> 0:14:03.516 constantly running out of time. 0:14:04.036 --> 0:14:09.436 Totally switch physicians. So what change? What changed for you? 0:14:09.676 --> 0:14:12.476 Because because you know, it's like, I don't know, I've 0:14:12.516 --> 0:14:14.556 never like I don't even I hesitate to say that, 0:14:14.836 --> 0:14:17.036 like you've clearly hit your stride because like I've always 0:14:17.036 --> 0:14:19.556 thought of you as a person who was like top 0:14:19.636 --> 0:14:21.756 tier at like whatever whatever you were doing, I always 0:14:21.756 --> 0:14:23.956 feel like you were doing it well. So I feel 0:14:23.956 --> 0:14:26.476 like you've kind of always been in your stride. So 0:14:26.476 --> 0:14:27.916 I don't mean it that was competitive. 0:14:28.996 --> 0:14:31.876 They gotta at least give that impression even if I'm not. 0:14:32.236 --> 0:14:35.676 No, I believe I believe you are secretly competitive. But no, 0:14:35.716 --> 0:14:38.076 but but it me. I mean, you've clearly like carved 0:14:38.116 --> 0:14:40.676 out like a really nice space for yourself. So why 0:14:40.716 --> 0:14:43.516 do you feel like now you're feeling. 0:14:45.676 --> 0:14:49.356 I mean, I just it's more of like a sentimentality thing, 0:14:49.396 --> 0:14:51.316 like I don't want it to go away, Like I 0:14:51.356 --> 0:14:54.996 don't want the I want it to last longer. So 0:14:55.036 --> 0:14:59.476 maybe it's actively thinking about that that can speed up things. 0:14:59.556 --> 0:15:04.196 You know, it's I think there's this resistance is an 0:15:04.196 --> 0:15:07.356 interesting principle where it's like, yeah, the more you are 0:15:07.476 --> 0:15:10.396 resistant to something, the more push back against you. So 0:15:10.996 --> 0:15:13.796 I think me being like I want to dwell in 0:15:13.836 --> 0:15:16.556 this moment for as long as I can, and like 0:15:16.636 --> 0:15:20.676 kind of like almost like feeling like mourning that this 0:15:20.836 --> 0:15:24.236 time is gonna not last forever. That makes it go 0:15:24.316 --> 0:15:27.436 by quicker. So it's just like you got to practice 0:15:27.476 --> 0:15:30.196 I tried to remind myself to practice like more presence, 0:15:30.316 --> 0:15:33.596 and you know, everything runs its course in certain ways, 0:15:33.596 --> 0:15:37.156 and who knows, Like, I mean, this is a current 0:15:37.196 --> 0:15:39.996 that I'm in right now, but there's so many other 0:15:40.396 --> 0:15:44.076 creative like potentials for the future, and like I didn't 0:15:44.076 --> 0:15:47.996 see this coming for myself, Like at that time when 0:15:47.996 --> 0:15:50.236 we were talking about music, I was just like, I'm 0:15:50.276 --> 0:15:52.356 just gonna get some keyboards and mess around. I didn't 0:15:52.396 --> 0:15:55.596 see this as where I would be at all, So 0:15:55.796 --> 0:15:57.396 who knows what's next in ten years? 0:15:57.756 --> 0:16:01.636 Yeah? Is this feeling where uh like, keep it keep 0:16:01.676 --> 0:16:04.476 it alive comes from oh yeah a song? 0:16:04.716 --> 0:16:10.436 Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. That track makes me anxious to 0:16:10.556 --> 0:16:15.116 listen to. I enjoy it, but yeah, that's definitely the 0:16:15.196 --> 0:16:19.356 quality in it is trying to just stay ahead and 0:16:20.156 --> 0:16:28.756 outpace the maybe responsibilities and you know, inevitable endings. It's 0:16:28.836 --> 0:16:31.476 kind of the the vibe on that one. 0:16:32.636 --> 0:16:34.676 Do you remember Strumer sitting down to write that. 0:16:35.156 --> 0:16:39.636 I remember that strangely a lot of times, the songs 0:16:39.676 --> 0:16:43.356 that I end up making our versions of other songs 0:16:43.356 --> 0:16:47.236 that people might never make the connection to. Like I 0:16:47.316 --> 0:16:50.756 was listening to it's like an eighties Marvin Gaye album, 0:16:51.156 --> 0:16:54.956 and there's the opening of it. The strings on it 0:16:55.716 --> 0:16:59.756 are doing something really weird, and I kind of ripped 0:17:00.036 --> 0:17:03.676 the stringline a little bit from this track and it 0:17:03.916 --> 0:17:07.356 created this sense of like chaos. But in his version, 0:17:07.396 --> 0:17:10.556 of course, it's like super dreamy and romantic and like lush, 0:17:10.716 --> 0:17:13.476 and I'm like, I'm gonna kind of borrow this like 0:17:13.556 --> 0:17:16.836 chord change and put it in this context and it's 0:17:16.876 --> 0:17:18.116 gonna sound super hectic. 0:17:19.196 --> 0:17:20.556 Was it the sexual Healing album? 0:17:20.676 --> 0:17:24.036 No, it's Dream of a Lifetime, So it's it's it's madness. 0:17:24.796 --> 0:17:26.556 You know that one, And I don't know that you 0:17:26.556 --> 0:17:29.916 should listen to it. And now I'm wondering if you related. 0:17:29.596 --> 0:17:33.076 At all, probably not because I didn't hear any Marven 0:17:33.076 --> 0:17:34.516 on this, but I mean that's kind of the cool 0:17:34.796 --> 0:17:38.196 That's why that's a that's a really cool approach to 0:17:38.436 --> 0:17:41.636 making something because it's like it's kind of like it's 0:17:41.676 --> 0:17:44.156 like sampling in a way, like it's like taking something 0:17:44.236 --> 0:17:46.156 from something that you really like and it's turning it 0:17:46.236 --> 0:17:47.556 making it work for you, you know. 0:17:47.676 --> 0:17:51.396 Yeah, and the song, like the lyrics, it's like he's 0:17:51.436 --> 0:17:54.796 saying it's called it's madness, so he's kind of dealing 0:17:54.876 --> 0:17:58.076 with I think, similar ideas with it where it's like 0:17:58.476 --> 0:18:01.196 time running out and like sort of like living in 0:18:01.236 --> 0:18:06.276 a cyclone in your mind, and he's he's like, oh 0:18:06.356 --> 0:18:10.996 with is Mama, And he's like it's an interesting and 0:18:11.076 --> 0:18:13.836 weird song where it's like super dreamy and beautiful, but 0:18:13.876 --> 0:18:16.796 then the lyrics are kind of dark and yeah. 0:18:16.476 --> 0:18:18.636 Well Marvin's Casey really was running out of time too, 0:18:18.636 --> 0:18:22.356 which is the eerie thing. Yeah, but you know, like 0:18:22.396 --> 0:18:26.156 I wonder like with him, you know you could you 0:18:26.156 --> 0:18:28.836 can go to also like a like a like a 0:18:28.836 --> 0:18:31.636 guy like Tupac obviously to right, he's always like rapping 0:18:31.676 --> 0:18:35.396 about his own death and it's like prophetic yeah, like 0:18:35.716 --> 0:18:42.356 was it prophetic or did you make it real? You know? 0:18:43.116 --> 0:18:46.716 So I just wonder Jeff Buckley too, But I've been 0:18:46.756 --> 0:18:50.396 spending a lot of time listening to Grace. That was 0:18:50.436 --> 0:18:53.876 a sort of entry point into like how am I 0:18:53.916 --> 0:18:56.116 going to shape the sounds on Portrait of My Heart too, 0:18:56.236 --> 0:19:00.516 and thinking about his like it kind of sounds like 0:19:00.556 --> 0:19:06.236 sometimes when he's singing, he can censor, like perceive running 0:19:06.236 --> 0:19:09.636 out of time, and there's that like almost desperate to 0:19:09.716 --> 0:19:12.276 his voice that makes it so good. 0:19:13.916 --> 0:19:17.556 Yeah, I wonder though, like how much of that is 0:19:17.556 --> 0:19:22.236 is like perceiving truth or reality or how much of 0:19:22.276 --> 0:19:25.716 that is just like people reading signals wrong or just 0:19:25.956 --> 0:19:27.716 you know, like I don't know, like. 0:19:28.116 --> 0:19:33.596 Yeah, or sabotage self sabotage, sabotage you know, like yeah, yeah, 0:19:33.636 --> 0:19:37.756 it's interesting. It's kind of like I always reference that 0:19:37.876 --> 0:19:41.676 like meme of the cartoons on the bus, like ones 0:19:41.716 --> 0:19:44.116 looking at the window all happy looking and the other 0:19:44.156 --> 0:19:47.476 one's like sad, and it's like it'll stay the same thing, 0:19:47.556 --> 0:19:49.676 Like I just saw it yesterday and it's like I 0:19:49.676 --> 0:19:52.676 don't understand David Lynch And it's like someone looking at 0:19:52.676 --> 0:19:55.156 the window looking all happy and then the sad person's 0:19:55.156 --> 0:19:58.996 like I don't understand David Lynch. It's like it's just 0:19:59.116 --> 0:20:01.876 like yeah, you know, like I'm running out of time, 0:20:02.476 --> 0:20:04.716 like I could be really depressed about that, or I'm 0:20:04.756 --> 0:20:07.156 running out of time like you know, things are just 0:20:07.156 --> 0:20:09.836 gonna happen, and you can like it can be to 0:20:09.956 --> 0:20:14.156 your empowerment to see it that way. Sure, I guess 0:20:14.236 --> 0:20:19.196 I don't, Like I don't know next topic. 0:20:21.236 --> 0:20:23.076 I don't know if I can find the framing of 0:20:23.116 --> 0:20:25.556 that to be a I mean, it might be maybe 0:20:25.676 --> 0:20:30.716 that's my limited perspective. That might be my you know, 0:20:30.996 --> 0:20:33.916 my hang up. I'm not sure, but I know what 0:20:33.956 --> 0:20:36.116 that feeling is, and you know, I just so much 0:20:36.156 --> 0:20:42.556 preferred not to be it's a because it can be 0:20:42.676 --> 0:20:44.916 limiting in its own way, you know, Like like again 0:20:45.036 --> 0:20:48.116 like where you were when you started this music thing 0:20:48.236 --> 0:20:51.876 is like certainly you were not in that space and 0:20:52.596 --> 0:20:58.916 that allowed you to, you know, just be more improvisational, 0:20:59.036 --> 0:21:02.036 like I want to get this keyboard and mess around 0:21:02.076 --> 0:21:04.156 and then you know, you just never know when you're 0:21:04.196 --> 0:21:07.156 improvising in life like what that can lead to, you know, 0:21:07.236 --> 0:21:12.316 And that's a living more in that space to me, 0:21:12.516 --> 0:21:14.636 even though like you know, you listen to more and 0:21:14.636 --> 0:21:16.996 that guy he's just he's so tortured and the music 0:21:17.236 --> 0:21:22.276 is so beautiful, but I just prefer it just seems 0:21:22.316 --> 0:21:25.076 like life is better when you're when when when you're 0:21:25.116 --> 0:21:29.316 allowing yourself the lee way to you know, try things 0:21:29.396 --> 0:21:31.796 and not feel like I have to do this because 0:21:32.276 --> 0:21:34.516 there's not you know, I don't enough time. 0:21:34.556 --> 0:21:36.716 I got to do this now, I know, I know, 0:21:37.356 --> 0:21:39.956 and I want. I think going forward a lot of 0:21:39.996 --> 0:21:44.996 conversations and like some album interviews I've been doing, the 0:21:45.036 --> 0:21:48.996 more I talk about the like journey and the origins 0:21:49.116 --> 0:21:52.036 of this project and where it's headed, I feel so 0:21:52.356 --> 0:21:57.196 like I have to continue to nourish the things that 0:21:57.236 --> 0:21:59.436 feed that and feel that because it's gotten me to 0:21:59.476 --> 0:22:03.596 this place. And the more I try to like play 0:22:03.876 --> 0:22:08.556 by the book or follow them the sort of industry standard, 0:22:09.276 --> 0:22:13.396 it's gonna strip away more than it's going to add. 0:22:13.916 --> 0:22:17.596 And I don't necessarily know what that will look like yet, 0:22:17.876 --> 0:22:22.116 but I think it's something that's just actively on my 0:22:22.196 --> 0:22:25.796 mind and going to start, you know, looking for more 0:22:26.556 --> 0:22:31.956 opportunities to recreate kind of like the improvisational space you're describing, 0:22:31.996 --> 0:22:35.916 where it's like you're not I'm not feeling pressured to 0:22:36.396 --> 0:22:40.916 or obligated to do things a certain way and with 0:22:40.996 --> 0:22:42.916 the portrait of my heart, and I had to see 0:22:42.916 --> 0:22:44.836 it through. It was what was calling to me. And 0:22:44.916 --> 0:22:47.836 I'm really happy with how it all came together. And 0:22:48.196 --> 0:22:50.956 but there is this I can feel my intuition being 0:22:50.996 --> 0:22:55.596 like what's next is stripping back again and kind of 0:22:55.596 --> 0:23:00.916 going back into like a solo approach and getting messier 0:23:01.156 --> 0:23:04.756 with my stuff because I've gained a lot of technical 0:23:04.876 --> 0:23:07.876 skill and like you know, spent that put the work 0:23:07.916 --> 0:23:10.076 in on, Like I know how to make the things 0:23:10.116 --> 0:23:13.276 I want and they can somewhat match what ideas I have. 0:23:13.436 --> 0:23:15.956 I didn't have that when I was working on Pantheon. 0:23:16.076 --> 0:23:21.916 I was just like fruit Loop, Studio free Edition, like Audacity, 0:23:22.236 --> 0:23:24.876 just like record. I don't know how to fix that. 0:23:24.956 --> 0:23:27.756 So it's just going to be that way. And then 0:23:28.196 --> 0:23:29.836 you know, like I don't know what I was doing 0:23:29.876 --> 0:23:30.356 at all, so. 0:23:30.756 --> 0:23:32.636 But you didn't know, and but like you, but like, 0:23:32.876 --> 0:23:34.996 but it's not true, Like you you managed to make 0:23:35.076 --> 0:23:37.836 something that felt right to you at least I think 0:23:37.916 --> 0:23:39.636 or felt right to other people. I mean, that's a 0:23:39.836 --> 0:23:43.436 that's a great project. But you've definitely gained like the 0:23:43.476 --> 0:23:45.716 ability to maybe be more precise. 0:23:45.436 --> 0:23:51.836 Yeah, maybe be more precise, and yeah, just know more 0:23:52.236 --> 0:23:55.556 how to use like do things more efficiently because I 0:23:55.596 --> 0:23:57.636 spent a little like it took a long time to 0:23:57.676 --> 0:24:00.236 make things that I could do a lot quicker now. 0:24:02.716 --> 0:24:04.916 But yeah, I look forward to that. I want to 0:24:04.996 --> 0:24:10.276 just I have another set of songs that I was 0:24:10.396 --> 0:24:13.116 working on kind of alongside Portrait of My Heart and 0:24:14.356 --> 0:24:17.236 decided to just go with the like funnel those and 0:24:18.076 --> 0:24:22.156 to the like a little more pop sensibility album. But 0:24:22.196 --> 0:24:24.836 then the other stuff is like a lot more lo 0:24:24.996 --> 0:24:29.796 fi and just more like the Witchy Spelling origin stuff. 0:24:31.396 --> 0:24:33.756 We'll be back with more from Spelling after this break. 0:24:38.356 --> 0:24:41.516 Spelling as the uh you know the name you release 0:24:41.556 --> 0:24:44.436 stuff under, is that is that witchy in origin? 0:24:45.436 --> 0:24:48.996 It's yeah, somewhat, yeah, sort of in the more of 0:24:49.156 --> 0:24:51.636 like it was funny to me as a name. I 0:24:51.796 --> 0:24:54.116 liked that the word itself kind of made me think 0:24:54.156 --> 0:24:56.796 of like a creature and I would like imagine myself 0:24:56.836 --> 0:25:03.676 as this little like elevin creature name spelling, and but yeah, 0:25:03.836 --> 0:25:07.036 just it was just a reference to words, and like 0:25:07.276 --> 0:25:11.596 words is magic and cantation, and I think, yeah, the 0:25:11.636 --> 0:25:15.076 early stuff I was making like Creola Church. It was 0:25:15.196 --> 0:25:17.556 like a lot of repetition, just a lot of like 0:25:17.676 --> 0:25:20.556 repeating words over and over until it felt like it's 0:25:20.596 --> 0:25:24.396 turning into some sort of hypnotic state. And that's where 0:25:24.436 --> 0:25:25.396 that comes from. 0:25:25.876 --> 0:25:28.436 In this Is there any of that in your mind 0:25:28.676 --> 0:25:32.116 in the on the new project, in the new album, Like, 0:25:32.276 --> 0:25:37.076 is that still a part of what you're doing or somewhat? 0:25:37.156 --> 0:25:40.916 I mean, I think I'm always the biggest things I'm 0:25:40.916 --> 0:25:47.796 always inspired by are usually like books and literature, poetry, 0:25:47.996 --> 0:25:51.556 and so those influencers are always there. Even when I'm 0:25:51.636 --> 0:25:54.436 describing like oh, these are like more just like matters 0:25:54.436 --> 0:25:58.036 of the heart and like situational like love stories and 0:25:58.076 --> 0:26:00.676 things like that, It's still still very much being drawn 0:26:00.716 --> 0:26:04.516 from like a lot of like research and interests and 0:26:05.756 --> 0:26:09.356 that kind of stuff. And Portrait in My Heart was 0:26:09.396 --> 0:26:12.276 the first song that kind of opened up the floodgates 0:26:12.276 --> 0:26:13.876 for what was to come after with the rest of 0:26:13.916 --> 0:26:14.356 the album. 0:26:14.436 --> 0:26:16.116 And that was the first song you wrote. 0:26:16.156 --> 0:26:18.596 That was the first song I wrote. Yeah, And I remember. 0:26:19.836 --> 0:26:26.676 The line thea like that came to me on the 0:26:26.956 --> 0:26:29.756 when I was on the piano, and I remember it 0:26:29.836 --> 0:26:38.396 sounding kind of like a halftime thing likea. 0:26:37.436 --> 0:26:41.796 Like that, I'm very like slow, and I was like 0:26:41.836 --> 0:26:44.516 this is cool, Like this is giving. I don't know 0:26:44.556 --> 0:26:48.596 what this is giving, but it's got something. And then 0:26:49.396 --> 0:26:53.076 I was frustrated with like I felt like it needed 0:26:53.116 --> 0:26:55.996 to be more aggressive and I felt fresh, Like I 0:26:56.036 --> 0:26:59.196 was like, I don't want to make another like long, slow, 0:26:59.276 --> 0:27:01.196 dramatic song like I want to. I just want to 0:27:01.236 --> 0:27:03.236 switch it up. So then I started messing around with 0:27:03.236 --> 0:27:07.756 the drum machine and when I had that like like that, 0:27:08.036 --> 0:27:11.156 and then I changed the way that the line came through, 0:27:15.236 --> 0:27:20.236 and then Yeah, the vibe of that whole track on 0:27:20.316 --> 0:27:23.236 my mind at the time was like what's next and 0:27:23.276 --> 0:27:25.116 what's to come? Like feeling like I'm running out of 0:27:25.196 --> 0:27:27.316 time all those things, and like feeling a lot of 0:27:28.396 --> 0:27:33.316 apprehension and self doubt as far as like god, being 0:27:33.316 --> 0:27:37.756 an artist, you're just like constantly thinking about yourself, like 0:27:38.396 --> 0:27:41.916 this kind of sucks, Like I'm tired of this, Like 0:27:41.956 --> 0:27:45.156 I'm tired of hearing my own boys, I'm tired of 0:27:45.356 --> 0:27:48.876 what I have to do next, And I just feeling 0:27:48.916 --> 0:27:52.356 like it's so selfish to be my so self absorbed, 0:27:52.436 --> 0:27:54.876 you know, with but that's what it takes to make 0:27:54.956 --> 0:27:57.676 the thing. So yeah, the song is kind of about 0:27:57.676 --> 0:28:01.036 that and just feeling like, you know, you're pursuing your 0:28:01.316 --> 0:28:04.156 pursuing your idea to this extreme where you're starting to 0:28:04.276 --> 0:28:07.716 like lose track of reality, lose track of what's important 0:28:07.756 --> 0:28:10.636 to you and your life, and things really just start 0:28:10.636 --> 0:28:13.196 to fade away, and you like live in a delusion, 0:28:13.436 --> 0:28:15.836 and a lot of times, like to make the best things, 0:28:15.836 --> 0:28:20.956 you gotta like live in the delusion. And so I 0:28:21.036 --> 0:28:24.236 was fully living in that, and the lyrics came through 0:28:24.316 --> 0:28:26.916 like that, like lost, shattered in the dark, stranger in 0:28:26.916 --> 0:28:32.316 my head. It's like grappling with like the artist self 0:28:32.756 --> 0:28:37.116 and creating a kind of like a prison of your 0:28:37.156 --> 0:28:42.076 own imagination. Yeah. 0:28:42.076 --> 0:28:43.476 I haven't really thought about it that way, but it's 0:28:43.516 --> 0:28:45.916 like one of the great ironies of being an artist, 0:28:45.956 --> 0:28:48.996 I guess is you're constantly I guess it's by nature 0:28:48.996 --> 0:28:51.516 a bits it is a bit selfish, or maybe there's 0:28:51.516 --> 0:28:54.156 another way of thinking about it, but that definitely is 0:28:54.756 --> 0:28:55.876 you know, yeah it. 0:28:55.996 --> 0:28:57.836 I mean it's a beautiful part of it too, and 0:28:57.956 --> 0:29:01.156 that's that's the song is kind of just questioning all 0:29:01.196 --> 0:29:04.556 these things, and I think the spiritual portion that comes 0:29:04.556 --> 0:29:08.716 in is like this feeling or sensation sometimes that I have. 0:29:08.796 --> 0:29:12.676 It's like my relationship with God and feeling like God 0:29:12.756 --> 0:29:15.756 is the ultimate artist, and like has you know, placed 0:29:15.796 --> 0:29:21.596 certain like circumstances or situations for each individual life and 0:29:21.636 --> 0:29:24.196 like what you push back or what you contribute towards 0:29:24.196 --> 0:29:27.796 it versus what you don't how much of that is 0:29:27.876 --> 0:29:32.276 like your responsibility and like almost even like as being 0:29:32.276 --> 0:29:36.116 as an artist, are you like challenging against like your 0:29:36.236 --> 0:29:38.676 nature and what God intended you to do? So that 0:29:38.676 --> 0:29:40.156 that's kind of like I. 0:29:40.076 --> 0:29:42.116 Mean, so you feel like maybe God was not intending 0:29:42.116 --> 0:29:42.716 for you to be an. 0:29:42.636 --> 0:29:48.116 Artist, yeah, or maybe that your those like your gifts 0:29:48.196 --> 0:29:52.076 or abilities could be better placed through other things instead 0:29:52.076 --> 0:29:53.236 of this, Like was. 0:29:53.196 --> 0:29:55.316 It teaching that was the other thing? 0:29:55.356 --> 0:29:56.396 Could you another thing? 0:29:56.476 --> 0:29:56.676 Yeah? 0:29:56.716 --> 0:29:59.036 I could see another life path where that was like 0:29:59.596 --> 0:30:04.396 where I like put my efforts and my gifts towards 0:30:04.476 --> 0:30:06.796 or I don't know, like being a mother or being 0:30:06.916 --> 0:30:09.636 like you know, these other roles or yeah, these other 0:30:09.716 --> 0:30:12.436 roles in life that like I haven't necessarily chosen or 0:30:12.476 --> 0:30:17.796 hasn't haven't happened. So that was the crisis of that song. 0:30:19.636 --> 0:30:21.756 Yeah, I don't know, like choosing Yeah, I don't know, 0:30:21.876 --> 0:30:23.756 just as like a parent now three times over. I 0:30:23.796 --> 0:30:25.756 don't know, I don't think I've ever chose. 0:30:27.876 --> 0:30:28.676 You were chosen. 0:30:29.596 --> 0:30:32.356 Yeah, it was that was the other way I was chosen. So, 0:30:32.636 --> 0:30:36.116 you know, I'm just sure when it's funny, we always 0:30:36.116 --> 0:30:37.596 think about that as a good you know, when I 0:30:37.636 --> 0:30:39.396 talk to other people, like, I don't know if I 0:30:39.436 --> 0:30:41.116 want to, I don't know if it's like so much 0:30:41.156 --> 0:30:42.916 up to you, you know, I don't know it's so 0:30:42.956 --> 0:30:47.316 much up to any of us, you know. So you know, 0:30:48.156 --> 0:30:49.276 but it's interesting. 0:30:49.316 --> 0:30:51.636 I mean, well, it's not that I see it that way. 0:30:51.796 --> 0:30:55.036 It's just that kind of like those curiosities coming up, 0:30:55.156 --> 0:31:00.756 you know. And yeah, I encountered some like weird poem 0:31:00.796 --> 0:31:03.836 that was talking about an artist as like a thief 0:31:04.076 --> 0:31:07.356 or like a sort of like a con artist, like 0:31:07.596 --> 0:31:10.916 you know, like portray reality in a way that it's 0:31:10.956 --> 0:31:13.836 not and like taking your money for it. 0:31:14.076 --> 0:31:14.316 You know. 0:31:14.356 --> 0:31:16.676 And it's it's just like a weird, funny, interesting concept 0:31:16.756 --> 0:31:18.836 to me, right where it's like an artist kind of 0:31:18.876 --> 0:31:22.916 demands a lot from you they can, and there's this 0:31:23.236 --> 0:31:26.276 of like narcissism involved, and it's like their their job 0:31:26.436 --> 0:31:30.236 is to like create a reality that's not reality. And 0:31:30.316 --> 0:31:31.916 like sell you on it. 0:31:32.796 --> 0:31:38.756 This is a that's a very Bay area. Yeah, person, 0:31:39.036 --> 0:31:40.396 I'm living down here in l A. And it's like 0:31:41.396 --> 0:31:43.396 normal than me. Take the money and run. 0:31:45.036 --> 0:31:46.716 I know. That's why I need to move down here. 0:31:48.876 --> 0:31:50.876 Yeah, but no, but it's not like it's not a 0:31:51.116 --> 0:31:54.156 it's not a wrong interpretation, but you know, or that 0:31:54.236 --> 0:31:55.756 certainly can seem true. 0:31:56.116 --> 0:31:56.676 Yeah. 0:31:56.756 --> 0:32:00.436 What other stuff were you reading or watching or listening 0:32:00.476 --> 0:32:02.356 to around this? 0:32:02.836 --> 0:32:05.076 Hmm? I did a lot less of that. I mean 0:32:05.396 --> 0:32:07.276 also for Portrait of My Heart. I had seen that 0:32:07.316 --> 0:32:11.676 movie What Dreams Bake and that also like inspired with 0:32:11.756 --> 0:32:15.636 Robin Williams and Cuba getting juniors in it, and he's 0:32:15.676 --> 0:32:18.196 the angel if I ever saw it, he did it. 0:32:18.396 --> 0:32:19.956 I remember the movie It's Freaky. 0:32:20.876 --> 0:32:23.596 That also lended into a lot of the like imagery 0:32:23.636 --> 0:32:26.996 in that song, because it's like he his wife passes 0:32:27.036 --> 0:32:29.276 away and he's trying to like rescue her from health 0:32:29.956 --> 0:32:32.916 and he goes on this whole odyssey and uh, the 0:32:32.996 --> 0:32:35.036 way she was a painter in the movie and so 0:32:35.236 --> 0:32:38.516 like her re out, like her Heaven I think is 0:32:38.596 --> 0:32:41.916 like all like watercolor painting, and it's like really beautiful. 0:32:42.076 --> 0:32:44.236 She moves through it and it's like the trees are 0:32:44.276 --> 0:32:47.636 all rippling with paint and stuff, and so that that 0:32:47.756 --> 0:32:49.756 was the I had seen it a long time ago 0:32:50.236 --> 0:32:53.476 and always was kind of freaked out by it by 0:32:53.556 --> 0:32:56.716 it and it's a really intense movie, but it's also 0:32:56.756 --> 0:32:58.596 so beautiful, and I had watched it again and that 0:32:58.676 --> 0:33:00.996 kind of helped me with that song Portrait of My 0:33:01.036 --> 0:33:02.796 Heart and just like kind of like that theme in 0:33:02.836 --> 0:33:06.636 general of just like painting and yeah, and yeah, other 0:33:06.756 --> 0:33:11.796 books like mount Anlo that's a song based off that, 0:33:12.036 --> 0:33:14.676 And that's a book that I really enjoyed. I found 0:33:14.716 --> 0:33:15.156 it at. 0:33:15.116 --> 0:33:17.476 Wait, it's a book, Mountain, not analog. I didn't know 0:33:17.516 --> 0:33:19.276 there was a book. Yeah, I loved that title. 0:33:19.636 --> 0:33:22.596 Yeah, I was just gonna call it an analog. But 0:33:22.676 --> 0:33:24.836 I'm glad I threw I kept the Mountain so anyone 0:33:24.876 --> 0:33:28.476 can like look it up and hopefully read it. It's 0:33:28.796 --> 0:33:33.396 I found it. There's this bookstore and Silverlate called Stories. 0:33:33.876 --> 0:33:35.436 One of the times I was out here, it was 0:33:35.556 --> 0:33:39.076 up on the shelf for like staff picks, and I 0:33:39.156 --> 0:33:45.156 was like, oh, it's like inspired Alejandro Jodrowski's Holy Mountain, 0:33:45.516 --> 0:33:48.236 and so he was inspired by that book to make that. 0:33:48.116 --> 0:33:51.436 Movie and analog. Yeah, no way, well. 0:33:51.436 --> 0:33:55.796 Yeah, yeah, and it's beautiful. It's just like it's like 0:33:55.876 --> 0:34:00.636 an adventure story about a group of mountaineers that try 0:34:00.676 --> 0:34:05.076 to scale this mythic mountain that's supposed to exist somewhere, 0:34:05.156 --> 0:34:08.436 but it's like hidden from from view and you can 0:34:08.436 --> 0:34:13.636 only you know, find it if you're coming with like 0:34:13.676 --> 0:34:17.996 a pure heart and intentions. And there's just like weird 0:34:18.356 --> 0:34:22.716 mystical concepts in it that I really latched onto and 0:34:23.716 --> 0:34:26.076 it tried to infuse in the song. And you know, 0:34:26.116 --> 0:34:29.396 they're like sailing towards this mountain, so I'm sort of 0:34:29.476 --> 0:34:33.316 trying to create that. Like there's like this noise starts 0:34:33.356 --> 0:34:35.196 and like grows all the way up till the end 0:34:35.196 --> 0:34:37.916 of the song. It'supposed to sound like waves. Tried to 0:34:37.956 --> 0:34:39.196 like set the scene that way. 0:34:39.556 --> 0:34:42.796 Yeah, good music can be so dense sometimes in like 0:34:42.996 --> 0:34:46.636 really cool ways, Like like I don't mean that dense, 0:34:47.836 --> 0:34:51.716 maybe lush is the word, but do things tend to 0:34:51.756 --> 0:34:54.916 start more simply and then did they come to you 0:34:54.956 --> 0:34:58.036 sort of like with almost pre arranged in a sense 0:34:58.036 --> 0:35:00.676 of like you kind of know all the different kinds 0:35:00.676 --> 0:35:02.556 of sounds you want in this thing. 0:35:02.996 --> 0:35:05.676 I think that's that's more the case like I usually have. 0:35:06.356 --> 0:35:09.876 It's more about reeling back than like adding a bunch 0:35:09.956 --> 0:35:12.716 more like That's never really been a big struggle with 0:35:12.756 --> 0:35:15.516 me as far as like arranging or writing a song. 0:35:15.676 --> 0:35:18.196 Was just like some people describe like they can't stop 0:35:18.276 --> 0:35:20.916 or they keep adding stuff or don't know when to stop. 0:35:20.956 --> 0:35:23.876 I feel like I always know when to stop, and 0:35:24.276 --> 0:35:27.036 usually I'm kind of stripping things back. That's kind of 0:35:27.036 --> 0:35:30.836 more the process and some more than others. Like I 0:35:30.876 --> 0:35:34.556 think the most challenging track was Waterfall, where I played 0:35:34.556 --> 0:35:37.316 around with so many different versions and like tempos and 0:35:37.476 --> 0:35:40.916 nothing felt quite right and we landed somewhere that I'm 0:35:40.956 --> 0:35:44.516 happy with. That's my favorite song on the album, as 0:35:44.516 --> 0:35:48.116 long as it's capturing the core in a really authentic 0:35:48.156 --> 0:35:49.836 way that I'm happy and I kind of feel like 0:35:49.876 --> 0:35:52.916 the ornamentation of things can kind of be interchangeable. 0:35:53.996 --> 0:35:56.716 What makes Waterfall your favorite song? 0:35:57.876 --> 0:36:00.876 I think because it was such a puzzle to hack 0:36:00.956 --> 0:36:03.676 and like figure out that it was just so satisfying 0:36:03.716 --> 0:36:05.876 once it really clicked, because I was kind of like, damn, 0:36:05.916 --> 0:36:07.836 am I going to compromise and just kind of put 0:36:07.836 --> 0:36:10.236 this out even though it doesn't feel one hundred percent right, 0:36:10.276 --> 0:36:12.356 and I really didn't want to do that. And then 0:36:12.436 --> 0:36:15.036 at the last minute it kind of fell together. And 0:36:16.156 --> 0:36:22.716 I was in Athens, Georgia mixing the album with Yeah, 0:36:23.036 --> 0:36:26.516 like a couple days left, and I still didn't have 0:36:26.556 --> 0:36:29.116 the lyrics really figured out. I was like, well, mix 0:36:29.196 --> 0:36:32.836 the song last and like hopefully something comes together. And 0:36:33.596 --> 0:36:36.516 I was driving home and it's like the like the 0:36:36.676 --> 0:36:41.116 like country South darkness that's like ooh, like it's just 0:36:41.276 --> 0:36:43.396 you feel it and your bones kind of a thing. 0:36:43.436 --> 0:36:45.956 And I was driving and listening to the demo and 0:36:45.996 --> 0:36:51.556 like started to get that like shivery feeling where it's 0:36:51.596 --> 0:36:54.596 like ooh, I feel like kind of scared but like 0:36:54.916 --> 0:36:57.596 also like dangerous right now. And I felt like this 0:36:57.756 --> 0:37:00.876 rush of like I don't know, just like a flash 0:37:00.876 --> 0:37:03.996 of inspiration and helped me figure out the lyrics on that. 0:37:04.716 --> 0:37:07.476 But it was amazing. There's always there's always a story 0:37:07.556 --> 0:37:11.116 like that, like last minute some things like he had 0:37:11.116 --> 0:37:14.516 to get to this point to finally be handed that. 0:37:14.516 --> 0:37:16.796 That's how I feel about that track, So it's a favorite. 0:37:16.836 --> 0:37:19.436 And also just the lyrics are super special to me. 0:37:20.316 --> 0:37:25.036 It's about losing somebody and like I lost a friend 0:37:25.076 --> 0:37:29.676 of mine, David who also inspired me to start making music, 0:37:30.396 --> 0:37:32.116 and so I had him in mind and was like 0:37:32.156 --> 0:37:35.996 thinking about him through this process and like kind of 0:37:35.996 --> 0:37:40.596 being like my guiding angel through this whole experience of 0:37:40.716 --> 0:37:43.276 being an artist. Now, so the song is dedicated to 0:37:43.396 --> 0:37:47.956 him and thinking about grief as like it's just change 0:37:48.036 --> 0:37:48.716 as a form. 0:37:48.556 --> 0:37:51.716 Of change, and yeah, yes, what what happened? 0:37:52.476 --> 0:37:57.636 He died tragically and he was hit by a unibus 0:37:57.916 --> 0:38:01.436 and it was like he was only we were all 0:38:01.476 --> 0:38:04.596 like in our early twenties twenty two at the time. 0:38:04.876 --> 0:38:06.956 This was at the Telegraph house that we were all 0:38:07.036 --> 0:38:08.876 living in, so he was one of my roommates. And 0:38:09.276 --> 0:38:16.236 this is like a beautiful, flamboyant person who would just 0:38:16.276 --> 0:38:18.196 like bust into my room all the time and be like, 0:38:18.956 --> 0:38:23.036 let's go do stuff together. So I moved into his 0:38:23.156 --> 0:38:26.276 room after he had passed, like later months later, and 0:38:26.356 --> 0:38:28.436 that's when I started getting music equipment because I was 0:38:28.436 --> 0:38:30.196 like I feel him. I could feel him in the room, 0:38:30.236 --> 0:38:33.676 and I feel like he would want me to be 0:38:33.836 --> 0:38:37.996 making stuff. Wow, Yeah, I wanted to, like I always 0:38:38.316 --> 0:38:40.956 sing and like make things, but I didn't think my 0:38:41.036 --> 0:38:43.916 voice was strong, Like it was something that I didn't 0:38:44.436 --> 0:38:48.556 push it or try to like take it seriously. So yeah, 0:38:48.636 --> 0:38:50.596 I was like, this is just another tool for me 0:38:50.796 --> 0:38:53.916 when I started making music to like, you know, just 0:38:53.996 --> 0:38:56.156 kind of like the like producer who also makes music 0:38:56.236 --> 0:39:00.596 sort of thing where the voice is just being utilized 0:39:00.636 --> 0:39:03.196 hopefully like as another instrument. But it wasn't something like 0:39:03.236 --> 0:39:05.676 where I came in as like I'm a singer and 0:39:05.716 --> 0:39:08.596 then you know, I feel a lot more confident in 0:39:08.596 --> 0:39:13.156 my voice now it's grown on me. But yeah, moments 0:39:13.196 --> 0:39:15.516 of songs like Alibi or certain songs, I'm just like 0:39:16.236 --> 0:39:18.716 it feels like to me, like to me too much 0:39:18.796 --> 0:39:19.356 me in there. 0:39:20.276 --> 0:39:20.996 It's interesting. 0:39:21.276 --> 0:39:24.716 It's too much like in this track like Analog, where 0:39:24.716 --> 0:39:26.316 it's like I can kind of feel like I'm like 0:39:27.316 --> 0:39:30.876 I'm just a part of the music more got it, Yeah, 0:39:30.916 --> 0:39:33.356 part of the tapestry. And then in Alibi it's like 0:39:33.476 --> 0:39:37.956 I'm gotta be like deliver in this this other way 0:39:37.996 --> 0:39:41.156 where it's just a different sensation. 0:39:41.836 --> 0:39:44.436 It is a pretty straight straight ahead song. You know 0:39:44.716 --> 0:39:47.636 that feels new for you on the album, And I 0:39:47.676 --> 0:39:51.396 was mentioning earlier like the abundance of guitar also feels 0:39:51.556 --> 0:39:54.756 new for you. Yeah, how did that come together? Like 0:39:54.796 --> 0:39:58.156 what when did you realize you were gonna that was 0:39:58.156 --> 0:40:00.116 gonna be drive a lot of the sound. 0:40:00.836 --> 0:40:03.636 I guess when Portrait clicked in the way that it did, 0:40:03.836 --> 0:40:07.196 I was like, Okay, I'm going back in time. I'm 0:40:07.196 --> 0:40:10.236 going back to this like sort of high school self. 0:40:10.276 --> 0:40:12.916 What was I listening to then? What were the things 0:40:12.916 --> 0:40:16.556 that fueled that attitude? And I needed to kind of 0:40:16.596 --> 0:40:21.716 like get in my radio head bag, my like system 0:40:21.716 --> 0:40:25.156 of a down and smashing pumpkins and all of the 0:40:25.276 --> 0:40:31.396 like kind of nineties grunge rock stuff, And that just 0:40:31.636 --> 0:40:34.596 made it sense to me, like, oh, I'm gonna it's 0:40:34.636 --> 0:40:38.916 gonna be guitar based, and that'll be a sort of 0:40:38.956 --> 0:40:42.236 like touchstone for the first time, because I think before 0:40:42.276 --> 0:40:45.756 then I never like I didn't just made whatever and 0:40:45.796 --> 0:40:49.516 like let the song demand what instruments to use. And 0:40:49.596 --> 0:40:51.316 this time I'm like, I want to have a little 0:40:51.316 --> 0:40:55.276 bit more of a centerpiece here. So rock Palette. 0:40:54.996 --> 0:40:58.636 You forced the issue, We're gonna issue. 0:40:59.076 --> 0:40:59.756 Sit on it. 0:40:59.956 --> 0:41:04.636 Yeah, stay visits down what I don't even know who 0:41:04.676 --> 0:41:05.476 played guitar on that? 0:41:05.956 --> 0:41:08.196 No, my band, So in my band right now, Wyatt 0:41:08.236 --> 0:41:12.596 plays guitar. He played all the songs on Portrait, and 0:41:12.636 --> 0:41:16.076 we had a couple of guests like on Alibi, Pat 0:41:16.116 --> 0:41:21.676 from Turnstile like also played on that and Braxton from Zulu. 0:41:22.036 --> 0:41:24.956 So yeah, but Whyatt held down and like helped me 0:41:25.076 --> 0:41:27.236 like arrange and write a lot of this stuff. And 0:41:28.436 --> 0:41:31.596 then Julio it's our bass player. He's a jazz player. 0:41:31.836 --> 0:41:35.956 He's like you know his style. He's like a music addict. 0:41:35.956 --> 0:41:38.476 He can't stop playing music, you know, like every day 0:41:38.476 --> 0:41:41.956 he has a gig. And he always mixed the live 0:41:42.036 --> 0:41:46.956 performances really dynamic. And I'll be like, Okay, we have 0:41:46.996 --> 0:41:49.196 our set lists. This is what we're gonna do every night, 0:41:49.556 --> 0:41:51.316 you know, because it feels good to kind of just 0:41:51.316 --> 0:41:54.516 like lock in and get better at the same thing. 0:41:54.556 --> 0:41:57.156 And he'll be like, this is boring. We gotta do 0:41:57.356 --> 0:41:59.516 like I'm gonna do something different every night, you know. 0:41:59.676 --> 0:42:02.756 Like, so who's on Satisfaction? Is that? Why? 0:42:03.716 --> 0:42:04.156 Yeah? 0:42:04.316 --> 0:42:08.316 That gets pretty hardcore? What did that call him at 0:42:08.316 --> 0:42:10.636 the end? Or were you like we're gonna for sure 0:42:10.796 --> 0:42:13.196 just gonna like funny, did you know from the jump 0:42:13.276 --> 0:42:16.596 that you were going to song would end up like yeah, 0:42:17.036 --> 0:42:18.156 turn that into like a slayer. 0:42:20.996 --> 0:42:24.516 I'm trying to remember where that song even when I 0:42:24.556 --> 0:42:27.996 wrote that one. I think it was kind of like 0:42:28.076 --> 0:42:32.916 having this more like wicked synth flare to it at first, 0:42:32.996 --> 0:42:37.076 Like I remember making that the guitar line that's like 0:42:37.276 --> 0:42:40.956 no no, no, no no no, and it kind of 0:42:40.996 --> 0:42:43.436 had more of like a Queen of Wands sort of 0:42:43.516 --> 0:42:48.876 like prog synth rock feeling to it. Like I started 0:42:48.916 --> 0:42:51.956 to get real theatrical with like all the synth work 0:42:52.036 --> 0:42:53.356 and stuff, and I'm like, what would it sound like 0:42:53.356 --> 0:42:54.916 it was stripped down and just like a much more 0:42:54.956 --> 0:42:58.396 brutal and just guitar instead of all this like chaotic 0:42:59.036 --> 0:43:00.556 synth stuff happening. 0:43:01.236 --> 0:43:05.436 Like the guitar was down bad for a while. Yeah, 0:43:05.836 --> 0:43:10.876 like it could use a renaissance, like I like having music, 0:43:10.916 --> 0:43:12.596 so I was, but it's just it was such a 0:43:12.636 --> 0:43:17.396 wild that wasn't a flavor I was used to from 0:43:17.476 --> 0:43:18.556 your song. 0:43:19.276 --> 0:43:24.076 I know, yeah, I know. I mean I think about 0:43:24.076 --> 0:43:27.356 some Pantheon stuff and like I would have the impulse 0:43:27.436 --> 0:43:30.036 to do kind of what I'm doing on Satisfaction or 0:43:30.076 --> 0:43:32.196 with like other heavier tracks, but it's like I just 0:43:32.236 --> 0:43:35.956 didn't have the means too, like real fun. I tried 0:43:35.996 --> 0:43:38.356 to kind of go there and make this like sort 0:43:38.356 --> 0:43:42.276 of like doom metal guitar, but with the synth. So 0:43:42.276 --> 0:43:45.356 I would just like emulate what I wanted to sound 0:43:45.436 --> 0:43:49.076 like on on the gino And what did it lived 0:43:49.156 --> 0:43:52.756 like that I was saying, I feel like the got 0:43:52.796 --> 0:43:55.676 to channel some of those like the first instances of 0:43:55.796 --> 0:43:59.796 music that felt like they were different than what I 0:43:59.876 --> 0:44:03.276 was like growing up listening to, Like my mom listened 0:44:03.276 --> 0:44:05.116 to a lot of neo soul and R and B 0:44:05.436 --> 0:44:08.796 and all that stuff really still comes through too, like 0:44:09.436 --> 0:44:11.716 in the nineties, like Mary J. Blige, like she's one 0:44:11.716 --> 0:44:14.116 of the people who taught me how to sing, and 0:44:14.196 --> 0:44:16.836 Randy and Monica and Tony and like. 0:44:16.836 --> 0:44:18.276 You was like singing other records. 0:44:18.516 --> 0:44:21.036 Yeah yeah, and then you know, so that was the 0:44:21.076 --> 0:44:22.796 music I was like raised on and like in my 0:44:22.836 --> 0:44:25.116 household and like but then I think some of the 0:44:25.196 --> 0:44:28.116 like alt rock stuff I got into, like AFI and 0:44:28.596 --> 0:44:30.276 like pop punk stuff. 0:44:30.356 --> 0:44:31.556 That was your dad. Yeah. 0:44:31.716 --> 0:44:34.996 No, it was like me in like a suburb and 0:44:35.076 --> 0:44:38.076 like going to Borders Bookstore and being like raised by 0:44:38.116 --> 0:44:42.396 Borders Bookstore and like you know that I'm speaking to 0:44:42.516 --> 0:44:46.756 kind of like oh, hearing something else and feeling like 0:44:46.916 --> 0:44:49.836 what is this like for hearing like system of a 0:44:49.916 --> 0:44:53.116 down for the first time and being like, oh, what 0:44:53.356 --> 0:44:56.876 is this feeling happening right now? Like I didn't know 0:44:56.956 --> 0:45:00.396 I had like these sort of sensations inside, but it's 0:45:00.396 --> 0:45:04.676 speaking to something that was there. And yeah, so Portrait 0:45:04.716 --> 0:45:06.796 of my Heart kind of like drawing from that alt 0:45:06.876 --> 0:45:08.836 rock palette that kind of felt like it kind of 0:45:09.196 --> 0:45:14.156 fueled this new fascination and interests in like this is 0:45:14.156 --> 0:45:16.116 my music too, Like this this is stuff that I 0:45:16.156 --> 0:45:16.916 really connect with. 0:45:16.996 --> 0:45:19.796 And like, you play and you played some shows with Turnstile, 0:45:19.916 --> 0:45:20.356 didn't you? 0:45:20.636 --> 0:45:26.556 I did? Yeah, yeah that's I saw Brendan Gates go 0:45:26.636 --> 0:45:30.236 on some podcast maybe and say how he loves Little 0:45:30.236 --> 0:45:37.716 Deer and I was like what it made me so happy? 0:45:38.636 --> 0:45:41.156 And then I think I reached out like DM tim 0:45:41.236 --> 0:45:43.716 or something was like no way, Like that's so cool 0:45:43.756 --> 0:45:47.396 that you even listened to Spelling asked us to play 0:45:47.476 --> 0:45:51.276 some shows. We played open for them in Vegas and 0:45:51.476 --> 0:45:54.676 like Tucson, I think, no, Yeah, it was. It was 0:45:54.796 --> 0:45:57.636 so interesting to stand up there in front of their 0:45:57.676 --> 0:45:59.396 crowd in Vegas. 0:45:59.996 --> 0:46:00.476 Vegas. 0:46:02.116 --> 0:46:08.116 Yeah, there was a lot of confusion. Yeah, there's a 0:46:08.116 --> 0:46:12.156 lot of like puzzled looks and then kind of like 0:46:12.316 --> 0:46:14.156 saw some people converted, like. 0:46:14.276 --> 0:46:16.756 The best kinds of shows of I love those, man. 0:46:16.796 --> 0:46:19.876 I love when it's just not like the perfect match 0:46:19.916 --> 0:46:23.276 for the audience, you know, like that's the most fun. Yeah. 0:46:23.396 --> 0:46:27.116 I thrive on that too, Like I like seeing the 0:46:27.276 --> 0:46:32.676 sort of perplexed crowd and then some heads nodding and 0:46:32.756 --> 0:46:42.476 be like I don't know, okay, Yeah, it was a 0:46:42.516 --> 0:46:45.716 lot of fun. And I love his voice like a 0:46:45.796 --> 0:46:49.556 portrait of my heart. We're working on doing a remix 0:46:49.596 --> 0:46:53.156 with him, so like featuring him on one of the tracks. 0:46:53.196 --> 0:46:54.436 It's just gonna be really great. 0:46:55.596 --> 0:46:57.076 After this break, we'll be back with the rest of 0:46:57.116 --> 0:47:04.436 my conversation with Spelling. Yeah, you're doing a whole remix 0:47:05.036 --> 0:47:07.436 like release of that album, but it's not gonna come. 0:47:08.596 --> 0:47:11.916 Yeah, just be a few tracks, and like Simon and 0:47:11.916 --> 0:47:15.596 I are working on those like remixed versions. And the 0:47:15.716 --> 0:47:18.916 last two years of just put more effort into connecting 0:47:18.956 --> 0:47:22.076 with other artists like that I really like like Brendan, 0:47:22.196 --> 0:47:25.676 and it to me like that's the biggest like affirmation 0:47:25.756 --> 0:47:27.836 along the way, like, oh, these artists I really love, 0:47:28.796 --> 0:47:32.396 like they love Spelling, and what can I like gain 0:47:32.476 --> 0:47:35.516 from that as far as just like creative collaboration and 0:47:35.916 --> 0:47:38.156 seeing what fusion will come from, because I think it's 0:47:38.196 --> 0:47:40.716 pretty all over the spectrum. Like the people who are 0:47:40.756 --> 0:47:43.716 interested in Spelling isn't like they aren't coming from this, 0:47:43.916 --> 0:47:48.356 Like I'm interested in the music because I like hardcore music, 0:47:48.436 --> 0:47:51.156 or I like, you know, this style of music, or 0:47:51.636 --> 0:47:53.236 it's just all over the map. 0:47:53.196 --> 0:47:55.676 Like because I don't know if there's like I don't 0:47:55.676 --> 0:47:58.596 know if you could do an algorithmic like if you 0:47:58.676 --> 0:48:01.396 listen to Spelling, you would also like like it's nothing 0:48:04.036 --> 0:48:06.196 like father to your style. 0:48:06.356 --> 0:48:10.956 You know, there's like sometimes I've like heard my music 0:48:10.956 --> 0:48:14.196 pop up on things I wouldn't expect it to, like algorithmically, 0:48:14.876 --> 0:48:16.796 But then I'm like, oh, I do see the crossover there, 0:48:16.996 --> 0:48:21.396 Like what, I'm a big fan of Cibo Matto and 0:48:21.556 --> 0:48:24.076 I was listening to their album that it sort of 0:48:24.076 --> 0:48:27.516 shuffling other stuff, and then one of my old songs 0:48:27.596 --> 0:48:30.116 was like a jump scare. I was like, what, why 0:48:30.116 --> 0:48:33.796 does this sound so familiar? It was Dirty Desert Dreams 0:48:33.836 --> 0:48:38.836 from Mazy Fly, and I was like, why is this 0:48:38.916 --> 0:48:42.636 playing right now? Yeah? That just sort of I guess 0:48:42.676 --> 0:48:44.636 like synth music. 0:48:45.156 --> 0:48:48.756 Yeah, I guess, but I don't know. I mean, yeah, yeah, 0:48:49.116 --> 0:48:54.156 you definitely have a unique style. Yeah, an amalgamation a lot. 0:48:54.316 --> 0:48:57.436 There's a lot going on in there. This is the 0:48:57.596 --> 0:49:01.196 remix I guess, or they just like duets or like 0:49:01.516 --> 0:49:04.356 wait what are the Yeah? How much are you changing 0:49:04.396 --> 0:49:04.956 the songs? 0:49:05.516 --> 0:49:07.996 I want to change them more like Simon and I. 0:49:08.196 --> 0:49:11.916 He's fantastic also, like we have great chemistry. He worked 0:49:11.956 --> 0:49:15.996 on the track sometimes on That's Just My Bloody Valentine 0:49:15.996 --> 0:49:18.796 cover on Portrait of My Heart, and he also did 0:49:18.876 --> 0:49:22.276 Waterfall and Drain, so he helped me just co produce 0:49:22.356 --> 0:49:25.036 those and then I was like, oh man, this was 0:49:25.076 --> 0:49:26.996 so cool. And I didn't really connect with him until 0:49:27.036 --> 0:49:29.556 towards the tail end of the whole process, and I 0:49:29.596 --> 0:49:32.036 was like, I wish we would have connected way earlier. 0:49:32.076 --> 0:49:35.276 But it's cool. And now I'm like, yeah, let's definitely 0:49:35.276 --> 0:49:38.596 do the remixes together. So so far we're working on three. 0:49:38.756 --> 0:49:41.356 There's I kind of wanted to like keep this a 0:49:41.396 --> 0:49:43.596 surprise though, like who the features are. 0:49:43.596 --> 0:49:46.476 Gotta gotta gotta got it. He worked with the Rabbi 0:49:46.636 --> 0:49:50.716 Zell on the project. Who you know, it's done a 0:49:50.756 --> 0:49:53.436 lot of good work for us and like a bunch 0:49:53.436 --> 0:49:55.356 of other people, how was that? 0:49:56.156 --> 0:49:58.916 It was great? You know, I feel like that was 0:49:59.596 --> 0:50:04.316 my first experience working with the producer. Everything has been 0:50:04.356 --> 0:50:07.796 self produced before, so there's there was definitely like a 0:50:07.996 --> 0:50:12.196 sort of an internal struggle at the concept at first, 0:50:12.236 --> 0:50:16.636 and I knew it would really it would really benefit 0:50:16.716 --> 0:50:20.756 me and help me grow just to get that opportunity. 0:50:20.836 --> 0:50:23.796 So when in and I feel like fifty to fifty, 0:50:23.956 --> 0:50:26.316 like you don't know if you're gonna vibe with someone 0:50:26.556 --> 0:50:28.876 then you can even if you like get along, and 0:50:28.916 --> 0:50:31.676 like it's like, how is that going to translate when 0:50:31.716 --> 0:50:35.036 it comes to like these creative decisions? And so I've 0:50:35.076 --> 0:50:37.116 come a long way as a person as far as 0:50:37.196 --> 0:50:39.996 like being able to even be in that scenario and 0:50:40.076 --> 0:50:42.436 context like what you so would probably just give me 0:50:42.476 --> 0:50:47.716 so much dread and anxiety. But he's the loss of control, 0:50:47.876 --> 0:50:51.236 the loss of control and also just having to make 0:50:51.276 --> 0:50:55.276 decisions with someone, you know, because I think when I'm 0:50:55.316 --> 0:50:57.596 working on my own and solo capacity, which I usually 0:50:57.636 --> 0:51:01.476 do producing, it's like I can take as much time 0:51:01.476 --> 0:51:04.796 as I need and like, you know, like there isn't 0:51:04.836 --> 0:51:08.556 this need to communicate actively, like it's just an internal communication. 0:51:08.676 --> 0:51:12.636 So I was like still a little nervous, but he's great, 0:51:12.716 --> 0:51:15.796 Like he's made everything feel so casual. I don't know 0:51:15.876 --> 0:51:18.916 what I was expecting, but yeah, he just had this 0:51:19.236 --> 0:51:23.036 confidence and like he remember him being like he showed 0:51:23.036 --> 0:51:25.716 me what he was sort of starting out with and 0:51:25.756 --> 0:51:28.516 he's like and I was already really digging it, and 0:51:28.516 --> 0:51:30.236 he's like, yeah, don't worry, You're gonna leave here with 0:51:30.236 --> 0:51:35.436 something you love. Like just like I was like, okay, confidence, 0:51:38.916 --> 0:51:41.916 I promise, I guarantee it. No, So he just had 0:51:41.956 --> 0:51:43.676 like a really good like, Oh he's great. 0:51:43.556 --> 0:51:46.156 Like he knows how to like, you know, he knows. 0:51:45.956 --> 0:51:47.596 What he's doing, he knows what he's doing, and he 0:51:47.676 --> 0:51:50.756 had I like that sense of assurance because I, you know, 0:51:51.116 --> 0:51:52.316 I don't want to be in the room with someone 0:51:52.356 --> 0:51:54.956 that's like m you know, like uh, like I want 0:51:55.076 --> 0:51:58.836 like do what you do best and like work from that. 0:51:59.036 --> 0:52:02.236 And like that felt really comforting just to like things 0:52:02.236 --> 0:52:05.756 didn't feel awkward at all. And also it was just 0:52:05.796 --> 0:52:07.916 awesome to see that was my kind of my all 0:52:08.156 --> 0:52:11.076 only one of few experiences seeing someone just like operate 0:52:11.156 --> 0:52:13.556 as a producer too, and I'm like, oh, he's doing 0:52:13.596 --> 0:52:15.836 these things or whatever, and like I do a lot 0:52:15.876 --> 0:52:18.036 of this stuff too, you know, Like it was just 0:52:18.036 --> 0:52:20.876 like affirming to be like, oh, there wasn't a blueprint. 0:52:20.916 --> 0:52:24.996 There's so much experimentation. There's so much just like fucking 0:52:25.036 --> 0:52:29.356 around with this like tape reel and still the like 0:52:29.436 --> 0:52:31.876 sensations of imposter syndrome come up or it's like what 0:52:31.996 --> 0:52:33.996 I do, is that good enough? Or is it like 0:52:34.116 --> 0:52:38.756 refined enough or whatever? And techniques and it's like we 0:52:38.836 --> 0:52:42.596 all don't know what we're doing in some capacity, like 0:52:43.116 --> 0:52:48.116 the idea of expertise is so relative, and especially in art. Yeah, 0:52:48.236 --> 0:52:51.876 but yeah, he's he's brilliant and like really helped me 0:52:51.956 --> 0:52:54.836 to like stand on ideas I had and be like no, 0:52:55.196 --> 0:52:58.396 like try it, like actually do it, and would follows through. 0:52:59.476 --> 0:53:01.716 And we came up with some just like some really 0:53:01.756 --> 0:53:05.076 fun stuff on Portrait, particularly like we were like strumming 0:53:05.076 --> 0:53:08.236 this trying to get real like pet sounds with it, 0:53:08.516 --> 0:53:12.516 like i'ming the piano keys and like doing all these 0:53:12.516 --> 0:53:16.476 effects on it and just adding subtle little like stuff 0:53:16.516 --> 0:53:19.156 that made a big difference. And I came in with 0:53:19.196 --> 0:53:22.516 this version of the song that was like once again 0:53:22.596 --> 0:53:24.756 like an eight. It was like eight minutes long, and 0:53:24.796 --> 0:53:27.796 he's like, this is cool, but cut this, cut like 0:53:28.716 --> 0:53:29.436 cut it in half. 0:53:31.276 --> 0:53:34.036 Was there like other sections or the preamble. 0:53:34.116 --> 0:53:36.356 I always do this too, And he's like, it's just 0:53:36.596 --> 0:53:39.236 my pop mind, just kind of saying like this doesn't 0:53:39.316 --> 0:53:43.476 happen again anywhere else in the song. I'm like, it 0:53:43.516 --> 0:53:48.996 was this intro stringline countermelody, and I thought that was 0:53:49.036 --> 0:53:50.956 the sickest part of the song. And I was like, 0:53:51.036 --> 0:53:52.956 there's no way, what like, what do you mean cut that? 0:53:53.036 --> 0:53:55.156 Like that? That is the song right there. And he's like, 0:53:55.236 --> 0:54:00.236 it just doesn't happen ever again, like and I'm like, oh, 0:54:00.396 --> 0:54:01.996 you know, like and I'm like, fine, we'll just let's 0:54:02.036 --> 0:54:04.476 try it. Let's try it, and like that little voice 0:54:04.516 --> 0:54:07.276 in my head coming up being like this is a 0:54:07.316 --> 0:54:12.796 mistake working with someone else, like I hate this, no, no, no, 0:54:12.836 --> 0:54:14.356 But it was really good for me to kind of 0:54:14.436 --> 0:54:17.396 just see that happen, like, oh, you know, the thing 0:54:17.436 --> 0:54:21.156 that you think is absolutely right sometimes isn't or that like. 0:54:21.916 --> 0:54:25.556 Yeah, you know to your point about there's no expertise, 0:54:25.636 --> 0:54:28.396 like yeah, we can't even be experts about ourselves and 0:54:28.396 --> 0:54:30.156 what we you know, it's hard to be objective about 0:54:30.156 --> 0:54:31.196 ourselves to anyway. 0:54:31.436 --> 0:54:33.836 Yeah, to be objective, and I always want to just 0:54:33.876 --> 0:54:35.556 do it. It was a good reminder do it takes 0:54:35.556 --> 0:54:37.876 to serve the song, and like, let's just at least 0:54:37.876 --> 0:54:40.436 try it. And I needed that like an outside brain 0:54:40.516 --> 0:54:43.356 to just show it to me in a different lay. 0:54:43.556 --> 0:54:45.396 So bed a really good time. 0:54:45.716 --> 0:54:48.036 I mean it's interesting that on this project you both 0:54:48.156 --> 0:54:52.236 want learned how you can work with a producer, but 0:54:52.316 --> 0:54:57.036 also like you like reified your own sort of abilities 0:54:57.076 --> 0:55:00.276 as a producer too, Like you kind of moving forward, 0:55:00.316 --> 0:55:02.676 do you think you want to self produce again or 0:55:02.676 --> 0:55:05.676 do you want to work with someone else again, or there's. 0:55:05.516 --> 0:55:07.596 A sense of like relief and like I was saying, 0:55:07.596 --> 0:55:09.596 I wanted to just go back to me for this 0:55:09.716 --> 0:55:13.636 next project and see what comes out of that. I'm 0:55:13.756 --> 0:55:16.996 really excited to. Like, yeah, I think that that experience 0:55:17.036 --> 0:55:19.276 with Rob was super affirming. I'm like, I feel like 0:55:19.316 --> 0:55:21.756 I'm I'm a strong producer, Like I know what I want, 0:55:21.996 --> 0:55:24.076 and I think that's the most important thing, is like 0:55:24.156 --> 0:55:28.316 knowing essentially what you want and acting on it, Like 0:55:28.596 --> 0:55:30.356 because you could sit there all day with there's so 0:55:30.476 --> 0:55:34.316 many other versions and options, but ultimately I do know 0:55:34.316 --> 0:55:37.356 what I want strongly, So I think I'm motivated to 0:55:37.436 --> 0:55:39.876 kind of just go there for the for what's next 0:55:40.076 --> 0:55:41.236 like self produce it. 0:55:41.916 --> 0:55:45.116 So future for spelling is let this album come out, 0:55:45.316 --> 0:55:50.876 do the tour, move to LA. It's self produced record. 0:55:51.236 --> 0:55:52.076 Sounds about right. 0:55:52.356 --> 0:55:55.196 Yeah, well glad you'll be around more. 0:55:55.716 --> 0:56:00.516 Me too. It's been I don't know. LA is just everything. 0:56:00.756 --> 0:56:03.516 It's like everything everyone says about it at the same time, 0:56:03.636 --> 0:56:05.516 like the good and bad. It's all there and. 0:56:05.836 --> 0:56:06.596 That's very true. 0:56:06.756 --> 0:56:09.836 Yeah, most of the good mostly mostly kid. 0:56:11.836 --> 0:56:13.796 Well, congratulations on the new album. 0:56:13.916 --> 0:56:14.316 Thank you. 0:56:14.996 --> 0:56:18.516 It's really great and I'm looking forward to spending more 0:56:18.556 --> 0:56:19.076 time with it. 0:56:19.476 --> 0:56:22.476 I appreciate it. Thanks justin. It's fun talking to you 0:56:22.556 --> 0:56:26.036 and very official. 0:56:29.876 --> 0:56:32.276 An episode description, you'll find a link told playlist of 0:56:32.316 --> 0:56:35.156 some of our favorite spelling songs. Be sure to check 0:56:35.156 --> 0:56:37.876 out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see 0:56:37.916 --> 0:56:40.556 all of our video interviews, and be sure to follow 0:56:40.636 --> 0:56:43.756 us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can 0:56:43.796 --> 0:56:47.116 follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is 0:56:47.156 --> 0:56:50.196 produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from 0:56:50.276 --> 0:56:53.876 Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinday. 0:56:54.516 --> 0:56:58.036 Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you 0:56:58.116 --> 0:57:01.396 love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to 0:57:01.516 --> 0:57:05.476 pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers 0:57:05.516 --> 0:57:08.596 bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine 0:57:08.636 --> 0:57:12.596 a month. Look for pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, 0:57:13.396 --> 0:57:16.036 and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, 0:57:16.076 --> 0:57:18.876 and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's 0:57:18.876 --> 0:57:20.956 by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.