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Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm excited today to share a conversation with my

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Speaker 1: friend Tia Cabral, also known as Spelling. I've known Spelling

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Speaker 1: since before she started making music a bit over a

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Speaker 1: decade ago, and I'll never forget when I first heard

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Speaker 1: some of the songs that became her sophomore album, The

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Speaker 1: Turning Wheel. It blew me away. For this friend, who

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Speaker 1: I've known for so long, to just be casually demoing

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Speaker 1: these beautiful songs with such a gorgeous voice, that was astonished.

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Speaker 1: Mind you, that album got a rare perfect ten rating

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Speaker 1: from Anthony Fantano. Her latest album, Portrait of My Heart,

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Speaker 1: sees Spelling taking yet another leap, pushing her avant garde

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Speaker 1: pop and even rock sensibilities to another level, adding new

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Speaker 1: dimensions to the mysticism and drama imbued in her music. Today,

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Speaker 1: Spelling opens up about her journey from teaching to touring,

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Speaker 1: what it means to build a sonic universe where every

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Speaker 1: detail is intentional, the early days of her musical journey,

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Speaker 1: when she was just getting started. This is broken record,

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Speaker 1: real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation with Spelling. We

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Speaker 1: should talk about the new album because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: more guitar, and then as the album progresses there gets

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Speaker 1: to be even more guitar. It's really cool, but it was,

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Speaker 1: but it was shocking. But maybe before we get to

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Speaker 1: talking about the guitar, just what was the genesis of

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Speaker 1: your new album?

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Speaker 2: The genesis, I mean, it's the same kind of approach

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Speaker 2: I always take, which is I'm just channeling my mood.

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Speaker 2: And I felt as though what I noticed after putting

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Speaker 2: out The Turning Wheel and touring a little bit and

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Speaker 2: just kind of that felt like this turning point in

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Speaker 2: my life where this is what I'm doing with my

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Speaker 2: life kind of a thing, whereas before it was I

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Speaker 2: was just you're meaning a lot, And I didn't imagine

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Speaker 2: my day to day being oriented around making music or

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Speaker 2: performing music really until post Turning Wheel. And there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of variables to that. I think I'm in my thirties,

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Speaker 2: Like I didn't really actually activate this craft until I

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Speaker 2: was in my like mid twenties, you know, So there

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Speaker 2: was this I felt like I'd already gone through this

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Speaker 2: evolution in my life where I felt like I know

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Speaker 2: who I am, you know, I have this sense of

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Speaker 2: self and confidence that's not rooted in being a musician,

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Speaker 2: so you know, going through that, putting out the album,

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Speaker 2: getting like an amazing amount of support for it and

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Speaker 2: growing my audience and all that, and I just was like, whoa,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm having this second sort of adolescence

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Speaker 2: in my life where I'm like once again being shaken up,

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Speaker 2: like having an identity crisis almost like who am I now?

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Speaker 2: And how does this change my life path? And all

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Speaker 2: of those things and just insecurities coming up I just

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Speaker 2: never thought I'd have to encounter again, Like I already

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Speaker 2: went through this as a teenager, just being like what

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Speaker 2: does it mean to like, you know, my image, my

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Speaker 2: relationships and my romantic connections, my friendships, all of that

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Speaker 2: started to kind of get re oriented around now pursuing

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Speaker 2: this thing like full full force and full heartedly, and

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Speaker 2: so Portrait of my Heart. A lot of those songs

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Speaker 2: are just like, yeah, stepping back into that sort of

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Speaker 2: adolescent space of like oh man, just like a restlessness,

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Speaker 2: sort of angst, a lot of grasping and questioning at

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Speaker 2: those sort of things that I just already thought I

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Speaker 2: had figured out.

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Speaker 1: Would you say it's the songs to you are more

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Speaker 1: questioning and reaching than your last record.

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Speaker 2: Just in a different scale. And I think prior to this,

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of comfort in my home space,

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Speaker 2: and I you know, had my like spiritual practices and routines,

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Speaker 2: like I meditate, I spend time in nature, and like

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Speaker 2: I was channeling from there, like my interests in like

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Speaker 2: you know, occult arts and magic and spirituality and cosmology

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Speaker 2: like all of that stuff. Like I spent a lot

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Speaker 2: of time reading and researching and just writing, and so

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Speaker 2: I would draw from that, like and I think things

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Speaker 2: were you know, there's songs on Turning Wheel that are

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Speaker 2: very much about like love and romance and connection, but

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Speaker 2: kind of more pointed in this like cosmic scale loves

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Speaker 2: in like universal love or you know, like love is

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Speaker 2: in cosmic love and that kind of analogy. But with

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Speaker 2: Portrait of my Heart, it's just it's more one to one.

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Speaker 2: It's more just like tea and real life situations and

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Speaker 2: like personal affairs and my own matters of a heart.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a big shift. And now now that

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about it, it's like, oh, yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: about to come out, and this is like my life,

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Speaker 2: and it's it's a little weird. It's it's like way

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Speaker 2: more vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it's interesting because I would have thought the opposite,

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Speaker 1: not that I mean both seem very sincere, but I

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Speaker 1: would have thought that that Turning Wheel was more directly

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Speaker 1: to do with your everyday life and sort of more

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Speaker 1: maybe more actually a portrait of your heart than this one.

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Speaker 1: But I guess that's why, and I guess that's why

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Speaker 1: you title this one.

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Speaker 2: It's all InTru laced too, you know, like it's just

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Speaker 2: kind of what I was, what I was describing as

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Speaker 2: being on a different scale. And but yeah, they're both.

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Speaker 2: I think the through line is intimacy. I think that's

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Speaker 2: a big theme on all the things that I make,

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Speaker 2: is like intimacy with the self and with relationship or

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Speaker 2: connection to spirit and the those kinds of things are

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Speaker 2: carrying through since Pantheon of Me and to Portrait of

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Speaker 2: my Heart as well.

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Speaker 1: Since you talked about like having different practices, whether it's

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Speaker 1: meditation or just kind of communing with nature. Is music

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Speaker 1: another version of that for you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, it kind of feels like for me it

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Speaker 2: was the big piece of like, Oh, I found where

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Speaker 2: I can really direct my purpose and feel like I

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Speaker 2: can direct my like particular gifts and talents in the

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Speaker 2: right way, and so music is that for me. And

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like my big take on spirituality in

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Speaker 2: general is just what can you do to you know,

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Speaker 2: elevate your like best abilities and you know, make an impact.

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Speaker 2: I struggle with connecting to people, even though I want to,

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Speaker 2: and I yeah, and I think that music kind of

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Speaker 2: like always helps me to bridge that. Like it's the

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Speaker 2: thing that connects me to all, like all let my

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Speaker 2: relationships and friendships, even my family.

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Speaker 1: Like how does that play out in your life? How

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Speaker 1: does that look in your life?

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Speaker 2: I mean it's really like it's really simple just sending

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Speaker 2: songs back and forth with friends. It feels like I

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Speaker 2: can know you so well just by that, you know.

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Speaker 2: And my dad and I our relationship is really been

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Speaker 2: kind of glued together through music, and you know, he'll

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Speaker 2: send me YouTube videos back and forth throughout the week.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of like how we mostly communicate is like

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Speaker 2: through songs. And I don't know, I think like knowing

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Speaker 2: what someone loves or what speaks to them is so

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Speaker 2: special and it like just access to something you couldn't

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Speaker 2: really describe really with words ever. And that's how I

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Speaker 2: feel about just like speaking in general, too, Like I

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Speaker 2: have such a hard time like saying what I mean

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Speaker 2: and how I feel, but I can do it with music.

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Speaker 1: And when I first met you, you were a writer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's how in my mind. Yeah, So when it comes

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Speaker 1: to writing, though, you're able to organize and your thoughts

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Speaker 1: and sort of clearly get out what you're trying to say.

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Speaker 2: Better than like conversation for sure, But even then it's

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Speaker 2: not as immediate like music just is like something that's

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Speaker 2: just so immediate and it doesn't need like a translation

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Speaker 2: for me, like I just feel like I can just

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Speaker 2: act as a conduit. And yeah, I started off with writing.

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Speaker 2: You know, you saw me doing poetry workshops and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that, and that was what really launched me into

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Speaker 2: making music. From there, I was like, oh, poetry is

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Speaker 2: this other like vein of music where you can say

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Speaker 2: a lot with just a few things and have all

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Speaker 2: these multiple meanings and just a couple of words. And

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Speaker 2: so I was playing around with that and then got

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Speaker 2: a loot pedal and good, all right, I think I

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Speaker 2: cringed thinking about that chapter of my life. We can

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Speaker 2: we don't need people digging into that.

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Speaker 1: But that was the first time I ever met you.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember, do you remember meeting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah at a workshop.

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Speaker 1: Not at a workshop. We were on like telegraph and

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Speaker 1: and you were, I think, just leaving a workshop. And

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Speaker 1: I had walked from like downtown, but on foot on

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Speaker 1: I was hooking it just like I was like, okay

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Speaker 1: a bus. I was like waiting for a bus and

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Speaker 1: was taking forever, so I wanted to start walking and

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Speaker 1: a bus will eventually. I don't know how. I walked forever,

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Speaker 1: and then finally a bus came and you came up.

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Speaker 1: A couple of different other.

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Speaker 2: People, Yeah, a couple of other poets, a couple of

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Speaker 2: the poets telegraph.

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Speaker 1: Casually a couple of the poets materialized and we rode

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Speaker 1: the bus together. And that was Remember that was for

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Speaker 1: something to me, like, yeah, we just came from this

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Speaker 1: you like like we were still over there this poetry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh man, what a time. Yeah, it really felt

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Speaker 2: like serendipitous, the friends I made along that journey, like

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Speaker 2: being at E. C. Berkeley and yeah, really just like

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Speaker 2: romanticizing walking around Telegraph Avenue, just like you were doing

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Speaker 2: it my little journal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but never did you know. It's fun And like

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Speaker 1: you say, you feel now almost like you're reaching a

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Speaker 1: second adolescence it's like I can relate because I never

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Speaker 1: I feel younger in a way than I ever did,

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Speaker 1: because back then I felt like old. I felt like

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Speaker 1: or like I was like.

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Speaker 2: Like, like, do you have a timeless quality to you?

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Speaker 2: I feel like you're like you could jump back back

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Speaker 2: and forth and thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'll accept that. I'd never considered that for myself, but

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Speaker 1: maybe that's the truth. But like that, I felt like

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Speaker 1: I was like running out of time. Like I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to explain that, but I felt I was like,

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Speaker 1: I remember when you picked up but then you were

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Speaker 1: about to say you started picking up some loop pedals.

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Speaker 1: If I remember were you getting music equipment? And I

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Speaker 1: remember like looking at you and just being like are

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Speaker 1: we too old for this?

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Speaker 2: Ship? I remember this conversation I feel like we were

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Speaker 2: talking about. I was like, I think I'm gonna start

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Speaker 2: doing this.

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Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm about to learn. Like you got

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Speaker 1: like a keep, you were so excited you got a keyboard,

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Speaker 1: and like all the time, I'm like like, and I

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Speaker 1: think you know somewhere, I think you know I probably

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Speaker 1: would have loved and have done the same thing.

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Speaker 2: The time you're trying to take me down, aren't we aren't.

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Speaker 1: We I just want to bring down with me, like

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Speaker 1: I think we're like too old for this ship, Like

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Speaker 1: what are you afterwards?

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Speaker 2: Like let me see if I can what I can. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it blew me.

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Speaker 1: Away because like it's like you you started doing that

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Speaker 1: and then like pretty quickly the music you were making

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Speaker 1: was psycho.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad that it was quick because I

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Speaker 2: didn't have time to waste, you know, like if it

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Speaker 2: was sorted out within the next few years, then what No.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think I've always had the mentality of

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Speaker 2: feeling like a late bloomer, feeling like my pace is

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Speaker 2: like a little bit behind everybody else. So good thing.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't in that frame of mind where I want

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Speaker 2: I wasn't running, you know. I was like this is

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Speaker 2: this is happening, and I'm doing it and yeah, there

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Speaker 2: there wasn't a lot of questioning right at that point

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Speaker 2: in my life. Now there is. Now there's a lot

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Speaker 2: more of like what's to come and what's next? And

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Speaker 2: I you don't I have to actively work to like

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Speaker 2: cast those thoughts away. But yeah, I'm curious, why do

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Speaker 2: you feel like you're you feel like younger than you

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Speaker 2: have previously, you feel like it's about sort of having

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Speaker 2: some security that.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know. I think it's

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Speaker 1: something to do with I don't know that that feeling

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Speaker 1: of running out of time has gone away, Like I

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Speaker 1: feel like I.

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Speaker 2: Have coasting, So I don't know.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know about coasting as much as I

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Speaker 1: hope I'm not gonna be maybe I hope not, though, No,

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Speaker 1: but I just feel like I have more time than that,

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Speaker 1: which is so I like the complete opposite feeling was

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Speaker 1: whereas then I felt like there was not there was

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Speaker 1: no time and I was late, and you know, like

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Speaker 1: now I'm like, oh, there's.

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Speaker 2: Nothing trying to catch that bus.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I just trying to catch that bus exactly. But

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Speaker 1: but now, yeah, I guess maybe now I'm on the

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Speaker 1: bus and I'm like, yo, there's there's nothing but time.

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Speaker 1: And so it's just that it's just a feeling. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it's even like a real thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's a real that thing that

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Speaker 2: can manifest physically though, Like I feel like you can

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Speaker 2: pause or slow down time depending on your perspective and mentality.

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Speaker 2: It's like it stretches and it contracts and it condenses

250
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Speaker 2: like depending on all of those things. But like you're

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Speaker 2: time traveling different than I am and everybody else. It's

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Speaker 2: an interesting sensation. I feel like time is just like

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Speaker 2: rapidly going by so fast, Like I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: constantly running out of time.

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Speaker 1: Totally switch physicians. So what change? What changed for you?

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Speaker 1: Because because you know, it's like, I don't know, I've

257
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Speaker 1: never like I don't even I hesitate to say that,

258
00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:17,036
Speaker 1: like you've clearly hit your stride because like I've always

259
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Speaker 1: thought of you as a person who was like top

260
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Speaker 1: tier at like whatever whatever you were doing, I always

261
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Speaker 1: feel like you were doing it well. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like you've kind of always been in your stride. So

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Speaker 1: I don't mean it that was competitive.

264
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Speaker 2: They gotta at least give that impression even if I'm not.

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Speaker 1: No, I believe I believe you are secretly competitive. But no,

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Speaker 1: but but it me. I mean, you've clearly like carved

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Speaker 1: out like a really nice space for yourself. So why

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Speaker 1: do you feel like now you're feeling.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just it's more of like a sentimentality thing,

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Speaker 2: like I don't want it to go away, Like I

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Speaker 2: don't want the I want it to last longer. So

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Speaker 2: maybe it's actively thinking about that that can speed up things.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's I think there's this resistance is an

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Speaker 2: interesting principle where it's like, yeah, the more you are

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Speaker 2: resistant to something, the more push back against you. So

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Speaker 2: I think me being like I want to dwell in

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Speaker 2: this moment for as long as I can, and like

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Speaker 2: kind of like almost like feeling like mourning that this

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Speaker 2: time is gonna not last forever. That makes it go

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Speaker 2: by quicker. So it's just like you got to practice

281
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Speaker 2: I tried to remind myself to practice like more presence,

282
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Speaker 2: and you know, everything runs its course in certain ways,

283
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Speaker 2: and who knows, Like, I mean, this is a current

284
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Speaker 2: that I'm in right now, but there's so many other

285
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Speaker 2: creative like potentials for the future, and like I didn't

286
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Speaker 2: see this coming for myself, Like at that time when

287
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Speaker 2: we were talking about music, I was just like, I'm

288
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Speaker 2: just gonna get some keyboards and mess around. I didn't

289
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Speaker 2: see this as where I would be at all, So

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Speaker 2: who knows what's next in ten years?

291
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Speaker 1: Yeah? Is this feeling where uh like, keep it keep

292
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Speaker 1: it alive comes from oh yeah a song?

293
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. That track makes me anxious to

294
00:16:10,556 --> 00:16:15,116
Speaker 2: listen to. I enjoy it, but yeah, that's definitely the

295
00:16:15,196 --> 00:16:19,356
Speaker 2: quality in it is trying to just stay ahead and

296
00:16:20,156 --> 00:16:28,756
Speaker 2: outpace the maybe responsibilities and you know, inevitable endings. It's

297
00:16:28,836 --> 00:16:31,476
Speaker 2: kind of the the vibe on that one.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember Strumer sitting down to write that.

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Speaker 2: I remember that strangely a lot of times, the songs

300
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Speaker 2: that I end up making our versions of other songs

301
00:16:43,356 --> 00:16:47,236
Speaker 2: that people might never make the connection to. Like I

302
00:16:47,316 --> 00:16:50,756
Speaker 2: was listening to it's like an eighties Marvin Gaye album,

303
00:16:51,156 --> 00:16:54,956
Speaker 2: and there's the opening of it. The strings on it

304
00:16:55,716 --> 00:16:59,756
Speaker 2: are doing something really weird, and I kind of ripped

305
00:17:00,036 --> 00:17:03,676
Speaker 2: the stringline a little bit from this track and it

306
00:17:03,916 --> 00:17:07,356
Speaker 2: created this sense of like chaos. But in his version,

307
00:17:07,396 --> 00:17:10,556
Speaker 2: of course, it's like super dreamy and romantic and like lush,

308
00:17:10,716 --> 00:17:13,476
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'm gonna kind of borrow this like

309
00:17:13,556 --> 00:17:16,836
Speaker 2: chord change and put it in this context and it's

310
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Speaker 2: gonna sound super hectic.

311
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Speaker 1: Was it the sexual Healing album?

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Speaker 2: No, it's Dream of a Lifetime, So it's it's it's madness.

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Speaker 2: You know that one, And I don't know that you

314
00:17:26,556 --> 00:17:29,916
Speaker 2: should listen to it. And now I'm wondering if you related.

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Speaker 1: At all, probably not because I didn't hear any Marven

316
00:17:33,076 --> 00:17:34,516
Speaker 1: on this, but I mean that's kind of the cool

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Speaker 1: That's why that's a that's a really cool approach to

318
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Speaker 1: making something because it's like it's kind of like it's

319
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Speaker 1: like sampling in a way, like it's like taking something

320
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Speaker 1: from something that you really like and it's turning it

321
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Speaker 1: making it work for you, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the song, like the lyrics, it's like he's

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Speaker 2: saying it's called it's madness, so he's kind of dealing

324
00:17:54,876 --> 00:17:58,076
Speaker 2: with I think, similar ideas with it where it's like

325
00:17:58,476 --> 00:18:01,196
Speaker 2: time running out and like sort of like living in

326
00:18:01,236 --> 00:18:06,276
Speaker 2: a cyclone in your mind, and he's he's like, oh

327
00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:10,996
Speaker 2: with is Mama, And he's like it's an interesting and

328
00:18:11,076 --> 00:18:13,836
Speaker 2: weird song where it's like super dreamy and beautiful, but

329
00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:16,796
Speaker 2: then the lyrics are kind of dark and yeah.

330
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Speaker 1: Well Marvin's Casey really was running out of time too,

331
00:18:18,636 --> 00:18:22,356
Speaker 1: which is the eerie thing. Yeah, but you know, like

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Speaker 1: I wonder like with him, you know you could you

333
00:18:26,156 --> 00:18:28,836
Speaker 1: can go to also like a like a like a

334
00:18:28,836 --> 00:18:31,636
Speaker 1: guy like Tupac obviously to right, he's always like rapping

335
00:18:31,676 --> 00:18:35,396
Speaker 1: about his own death and it's like prophetic yeah, like

336
00:18:35,716 --> 00:18:42,356
Speaker 1: was it prophetic or did you make it real? You know?

337
00:18:43,116 --> 00:18:46,716
Speaker 2: So I just wonder Jeff Buckley too, But I've been

338
00:18:46,756 --> 00:18:50,396
Speaker 2: spending a lot of time listening to Grace. That was

339
00:18:50,436 --> 00:18:53,876
Speaker 2: a sort of entry point into like how am I

340
00:18:53,916 --> 00:18:56,116
Speaker 2: going to shape the sounds on Portrait of My Heart too,

341
00:18:56,236 --> 00:19:00,516
Speaker 2: and thinking about his like it kind of sounds like

342
00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:06,236
Speaker 2: sometimes when he's singing, he can censor, like perceive running

343
00:19:06,236 --> 00:19:09,636
Speaker 2: out of time, and there's that like almost desperate to

344
00:19:09,716 --> 00:19:12,276
Speaker 2: his voice that makes it so good.

345
00:19:13,916 --> 00:19:17,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder though, like how much of that is

346
00:19:17,556 --> 00:19:22,236
Speaker 1: is like perceiving truth or reality or how much of

347
00:19:22,276 --> 00:19:25,716
Speaker 1: that is just like people reading signals wrong or just

348
00:19:25,956 --> 00:19:27,716
Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know, like.

349
00:19:28,116 --> 00:19:33,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, or sabotage self sabotage, sabotage you know, like yeah, yeah,

350
00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:37,756
Speaker 2: it's interesting. It's kind of like I always reference that

351
00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:41,676
Speaker 2: like meme of the cartoons on the bus, like ones

352
00:19:41,716 --> 00:19:44,116
Speaker 2: looking at the window all happy looking and the other

353
00:19:44,156 --> 00:19:47,476
Speaker 2: one's like sad, and it's like it'll stay the same thing,

354
00:19:47,556 --> 00:19:49,676
Speaker 2: Like I just saw it yesterday and it's like I

355
00:19:49,676 --> 00:19:52,676
Speaker 2: don't understand David Lynch And it's like someone looking at

356
00:19:52,676 --> 00:19:55,156
Speaker 2: the window looking all happy and then the sad person's

357
00:19:55,156 --> 00:19:58,996
Speaker 2: like I don't understand David Lynch. It's like it's just

358
00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,876
Speaker 2: like yeah, you know, like I'm running out of time,

359
00:20:02,476 --> 00:20:04,716
Speaker 2: like I could be really depressed about that, or I'm

360
00:20:04,756 --> 00:20:07,156
Speaker 2: running out of time like you know, things are just

361
00:20:07,156 --> 00:20:09,836
Speaker 2: gonna happen, and you can like it can be to

362
00:20:09,956 --> 00:20:14,156
Speaker 2: your empowerment to see it that way. Sure, I guess

363
00:20:14,236 --> 00:20:19,196
Speaker 2: I don't, Like I don't know next topic.

364
00:20:21,236 --> 00:20:23,076
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can find the framing of

365
00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:25,556
Speaker 1: that to be a I mean, it might be maybe

366
00:20:25,676 --> 00:20:30,716
Speaker 1: that's my limited perspective. That might be my you know,

367
00:20:30,996 --> 00:20:33,916
Speaker 1: my hang up. I'm not sure, but I know what

368
00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:36,116
Speaker 1: that feeling is, and you know, I just so much

369
00:20:36,156 --> 00:20:42,556
Speaker 1: preferred not to be it's a because it can be

370
00:20:42,676 --> 00:20:44,916
Speaker 1: limiting in its own way, you know, Like like again

371
00:20:45,036 --> 00:20:48,116
Speaker 1: like where you were when you started this music thing

372
00:20:48,236 --> 00:20:51,876
Speaker 1: is like certainly you were not in that space and

373
00:20:52,596 --> 00:20:58,916
Speaker 1: that allowed you to, you know, just be more improvisational,

374
00:20:59,036 --> 00:21:02,036
Speaker 1: like I want to get this keyboard and mess around

375
00:21:02,076 --> 00:21:04,156
Speaker 1: and then you know, you just never know when you're

376
00:21:04,196 --> 00:21:07,156
Speaker 1: improvising in life like what that can lead to, you know,

377
00:21:07,236 --> 00:21:12,316
Speaker 1: And that's a living more in that space to me,

378
00:21:12,516 --> 00:21:14,636
Speaker 1: even though like you know, you listen to more and

379
00:21:14,636 --> 00:21:16,996
Speaker 1: that guy he's just he's so tortured and the music

380
00:21:17,236 --> 00:21:22,276
Speaker 1: is so beautiful, but I just prefer it just seems

381
00:21:22,316 --> 00:21:25,076
Speaker 1: like life is better when you're when when when you're

382
00:21:25,116 --> 00:21:29,316
Speaker 1: allowing yourself the lee way to you know, try things

383
00:21:29,396 --> 00:21:31,796
Speaker 1: and not feel like I have to do this because

384
00:21:32,276 --> 00:21:34,516
Speaker 1: there's not you know, I don't enough time.

385
00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:36,716
Speaker 2: I got to do this now, I know, I know,

386
00:21:37,356 --> 00:21:39,956
Speaker 2: and I want. I think going forward a lot of

387
00:21:39,996 --> 00:21:44,996
Speaker 2: conversations and like some album interviews I've been doing, the

388
00:21:45,036 --> 00:21:48,996
Speaker 2: more I talk about the like journey and the origins

389
00:21:49,116 --> 00:21:52,036
Speaker 2: of this project and where it's headed, I feel so

390
00:21:52,356 --> 00:21:57,196
Speaker 2: like I have to continue to nourish the things that

391
00:21:57,236 --> 00:21:59,436
Speaker 2: feed that and feel that because it's gotten me to

392
00:21:59,476 --> 00:22:03,596
Speaker 2: this place. And the more I try to like play

393
00:22:03,876 --> 00:22:08,556
Speaker 2: by the book or follow them the sort of industry standard,

394
00:22:09,276 --> 00:22:13,396
Speaker 2: it's gonna strip away more than it's going to add.

395
00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:17,596
Speaker 2: And I don't necessarily know what that will look like yet,

396
00:22:17,876 --> 00:22:22,116
Speaker 2: but I think it's something that's just actively on my

397
00:22:22,196 --> 00:22:25,796
Speaker 2: mind and going to start, you know, looking for more

398
00:22:26,556 --> 00:22:31,956
Speaker 2: opportunities to recreate kind of like the improvisational space you're describing,

399
00:22:31,996 --> 00:22:35,916
Speaker 2: where it's like you're not I'm not feeling pressured to

400
00:22:36,396 --> 00:22:40,916
Speaker 2: or obligated to do things a certain way and with

401
00:22:40,996 --> 00:22:42,916
Speaker 2: the portrait of my heart, and I had to see

402
00:22:42,916 --> 00:22:44,836
Speaker 2: it through. It was what was calling to me. And

403
00:22:44,916 --> 00:22:47,836
Speaker 2: I'm really happy with how it all came together. And

404
00:22:48,196 --> 00:22:50,956
Speaker 2: but there is this I can feel my intuition being

405
00:22:50,996 --> 00:22:55,596
Speaker 2: like what's next is stripping back again and kind of

406
00:22:55,596 --> 00:23:00,916
Speaker 2: going back into like a solo approach and getting messier

407
00:23:01,156 --> 00:23:04,756
Speaker 2: with my stuff because I've gained a lot of technical

408
00:23:04,876 --> 00:23:07,876
Speaker 2: skill and like you know, spent that put the work

409
00:23:07,916 --> 00:23:10,076
Speaker 2: in on, Like I know how to make the things

410
00:23:10,116 --> 00:23:13,276
Speaker 2: I want and they can somewhat match what ideas I have.

411
00:23:13,436 --> 00:23:15,956
Speaker 2: I didn't have that when I was working on Pantheon.

412
00:23:16,076 --> 00:23:21,916
Speaker 2: I was just like fruit Loop, Studio free Edition, like Audacity,

413
00:23:22,236 --> 00:23:24,876
Speaker 2: just like record. I don't know how to fix that.

414
00:23:24,956 --> 00:23:27,756
Speaker 2: So it's just going to be that way. And then

415
00:23:28,196 --> 00:23:29,836
Speaker 2: you know, like I don't know what I was doing

416
00:23:29,876 --> 00:23:30,356
Speaker 2: at all, so.

417
00:23:30,756 --> 00:23:32,636
Speaker 1: But you didn't know, and but like you, but like,

418
00:23:32,876 --> 00:23:34,996
Speaker 1: but it's not true, Like you you managed to make

419
00:23:35,076 --> 00:23:37,836
Speaker 1: something that felt right to you at least I think

420
00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:39,636
Speaker 1: or felt right to other people. I mean, that's a

421
00:23:39,836 --> 00:23:43,436
Speaker 1: that's a great project. But you've definitely gained like the

422
00:23:43,476 --> 00:23:45,716
Speaker 1: ability to maybe be more precise.

423
00:23:45,436 --> 00:23:51,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe be more precise, and yeah, just know more

424
00:23:52,236 --> 00:23:55,556
Speaker 2: how to use like do things more efficiently because I

425
00:23:55,596 --> 00:23:57,636
Speaker 2: spent a little like it took a long time to

426
00:23:57,676 --> 00:24:00,236
Speaker 2: make things that I could do a lot quicker now.

427
00:24:02,716 --> 00:24:04,916
Speaker 2: But yeah, I look forward to that. I want to

428
00:24:04,996 --> 00:24:10,276
Speaker 2: just I have another set of songs that I was

429
00:24:10,396 --> 00:24:13,116
Speaker 2: working on kind of alongside Portrait of My Heart and

430
00:24:14,356 --> 00:24:17,236
Speaker 2: decided to just go with the like funnel those and

431
00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:22,156
Speaker 2: to the like a little more pop sensibility album. But

432
00:24:22,196 --> 00:24:24,836
Speaker 2: then the other stuff is like a lot more lo

433
00:24:24,996 --> 00:24:29,796
Speaker 2: fi and just more like the Witchy Spelling origin stuff.

434
00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:33,756
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more from Spelling after this break.

435
00:24:38,356 --> 00:24:41,516
Speaker 1: Spelling as the uh you know the name you release

436
00:24:41,556 --> 00:24:44,436
Speaker 1: stuff under, is that is that witchy in origin?

437
00:24:45,436 --> 00:24:48,996
Speaker 2: It's yeah, somewhat, yeah, sort of in the more of

438
00:24:49,156 --> 00:24:51,636
Speaker 2: like it was funny to me as a name. I

439
00:24:51,796 --> 00:24:54,116
Speaker 2: liked that the word itself kind of made me think

440
00:24:54,156 --> 00:24:56,796
Speaker 2: of like a creature and I would like imagine myself

441
00:24:56,836 --> 00:25:03,676
Speaker 2: as this little like elevin creature name spelling, and but yeah,

442
00:25:03,836 --> 00:25:07,036
Speaker 2: just it was just a reference to words, and like

443
00:25:07,276 --> 00:25:11,596
Speaker 2: words is magic and cantation, and I think, yeah, the

444
00:25:11,636 --> 00:25:15,076
Speaker 2: early stuff I was making like Creola Church. It was

445
00:25:15,196 --> 00:25:17,556
Speaker 2: like a lot of repetition, just a lot of like

446
00:25:17,676 --> 00:25:20,556
Speaker 2: repeating words over and over until it felt like it's

447
00:25:20,596 --> 00:25:24,396
Speaker 2: turning into some sort of hypnotic state. And that's where

448
00:25:24,436 --> 00:25:25,396
Speaker 2: that comes from.

449
00:25:25,876 --> 00:25:28,436
Speaker 1: In this Is there any of that in your mind

450
00:25:28,676 --> 00:25:32,116
Speaker 1: in the on the new project, in the new album, Like,

451
00:25:32,276 --> 00:25:37,076
Speaker 1: is that still a part of what you're doing or somewhat?

452
00:25:37,156 --> 00:25:40,916
Speaker 2: I mean, I think I'm always the biggest things I'm

453
00:25:40,916 --> 00:25:47,796
Speaker 2: always inspired by are usually like books and literature, poetry,

454
00:25:47,996 --> 00:25:51,556
Speaker 2: and so those influencers are always there. Even when I'm

455
00:25:51,636 --> 00:25:54,436
Speaker 2: describing like oh, these are like more just like matters

456
00:25:54,436 --> 00:25:58,036
Speaker 2: of the heart and like situational like love stories and

457
00:25:58,076 --> 00:26:00,676
Speaker 2: things like that, It's still still very much being drawn

458
00:26:00,716 --> 00:26:04,516
Speaker 2: from like a lot of like research and interests and

459
00:26:05,756 --> 00:26:09,356
Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. And Portrait in My Heart was

460
00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:12,276
Speaker 2: the first song that kind of opened up the floodgates

461
00:26:12,276 --> 00:26:13,876
Speaker 2: for what was to come after with the rest of

462
00:26:13,916 --> 00:26:14,356
Speaker 2: the album.

463
00:26:14,436 --> 00:26:16,116
Speaker 1: And that was the first song you wrote.

464
00:26:16,156 --> 00:26:18,596
Speaker 2: That was the first song I wrote. Yeah, And I remember.

465
00:26:19,836 --> 00:26:26,676
Speaker 3: The line thea like that came to me on the

466
00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,756
Speaker 3: when I was on the piano, and I remember it

467
00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:38,396
Speaker 3: sounding kind of like a halftime thing likea.

468
00:26:37,436 --> 00:26:41,796
Speaker 2: Like that, I'm very like slow, and I was like

469
00:26:41,836 --> 00:26:44,516
Speaker 2: this is cool, Like this is giving. I don't know

470
00:26:44,556 --> 00:26:48,596
Speaker 2: what this is giving, but it's got something. And then

471
00:26:49,396 --> 00:26:53,076
Speaker 2: I was frustrated with like I felt like it needed

472
00:26:53,116 --> 00:26:55,996
Speaker 2: to be more aggressive and I felt fresh, Like I

473
00:26:56,036 --> 00:26:59,196
Speaker 2: was like, I don't want to make another like long, slow,

474
00:26:59,276 --> 00:27:01,196
Speaker 2: dramatic song like I want to. I just want to

475
00:27:01,236 --> 00:27:03,236
Speaker 2: switch it up. So then I started messing around with

476
00:27:03,236 --> 00:27:07,756
Speaker 2: the drum machine and when I had that like like that,

477
00:27:08,036 --> 00:27:11,156
Speaker 2: and then I changed the way that the line came through,

478
00:27:15,236 --> 00:27:20,236
Speaker 2: and then Yeah, the vibe of that whole track on

479
00:27:20,316 --> 00:27:23,236
Speaker 2: my mind at the time was like what's next and

480
00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:25,116
Speaker 2: what's to come? Like feeling like I'm running out of

481
00:27:25,196 --> 00:27:27,316
Speaker 2: time all those things, and like feeling a lot of

482
00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:33,316
Speaker 2: apprehension and self doubt as far as like god, being

483
00:27:33,316 --> 00:27:37,756
Speaker 2: an artist, you're just like constantly thinking about yourself, like

484
00:27:38,396 --> 00:27:41,916
Speaker 2: this kind of sucks, Like I'm tired of this, Like

485
00:27:41,956 --> 00:27:45,156
Speaker 2: I'm tired of hearing my own boys, I'm tired of

486
00:27:45,356 --> 00:27:48,876
Speaker 2: what I have to do next, And I just feeling

487
00:27:48,916 --> 00:27:52,356
Speaker 2: like it's so selfish to be my so self absorbed,

488
00:27:52,436 --> 00:27:54,876
Speaker 2: you know, with but that's what it takes to make

489
00:27:54,956 --> 00:27:57,676
Speaker 2: the thing. So yeah, the song is kind of about

490
00:27:57,676 --> 00:28:01,036
Speaker 2: that and just feeling like, you know, you're pursuing your

491
00:28:01,316 --> 00:28:04,156
Speaker 2: pursuing your idea to this extreme where you're starting to

492
00:28:04,276 --> 00:28:07,716
Speaker 2: like lose track of reality, lose track of what's important

493
00:28:07,756 --> 00:28:10,636
Speaker 2: to you and your life, and things really just start

494
00:28:10,636 --> 00:28:13,196
Speaker 2: to fade away, and you like live in a delusion,

495
00:28:13,436 --> 00:28:15,836
Speaker 2: and a lot of times, like to make the best things,

496
00:28:15,836 --> 00:28:20,956
Speaker 2: you gotta like live in the delusion. And so I

497
00:28:21,036 --> 00:28:24,236
Speaker 2: was fully living in that, and the lyrics came through

498
00:28:24,316 --> 00:28:26,916
Speaker 2: like that, like lost, shattered in the dark, stranger in

499
00:28:26,916 --> 00:28:32,316
Speaker 2: my head. It's like grappling with like the artist self

500
00:28:32,756 --> 00:28:37,116
Speaker 2: and creating a kind of like a prison of your

501
00:28:37,156 --> 00:28:42,076
Speaker 2: own imagination. Yeah.

502
00:28:42,076 --> 00:28:43,476
Speaker 1: I haven't really thought about it that way, but it's

503
00:28:43,516 --> 00:28:45,916
Speaker 1: like one of the great ironies of being an artist,

504
00:28:45,956 --> 00:28:48,996
Speaker 1: I guess is you're constantly I guess it's by nature

505
00:28:48,996 --> 00:28:51,516
Speaker 1: a bits it is a bit selfish, or maybe there's

506
00:28:51,516 --> 00:28:54,156
Speaker 1: another way of thinking about it, but that definitely is

507
00:28:54,756 --> 00:28:55,876
Speaker 1: you know, yeah it.

508
00:28:55,996 --> 00:28:57,836
Speaker 2: I mean it's a beautiful part of it too, and

509
00:28:57,956 --> 00:29:01,156
Speaker 2: that's that's the song is kind of just questioning all

510
00:29:01,196 --> 00:29:04,556
Speaker 2: these things, and I think the spiritual portion that comes

511
00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:08,716
Speaker 2: in is like this feeling or sensation sometimes that I have.

512
00:29:08,796 --> 00:29:12,676
Speaker 2: It's like my relationship with God and feeling like God

513
00:29:12,756 --> 00:29:15,756
Speaker 2: is the ultimate artist, and like has you know, placed

514
00:29:15,796 --> 00:29:21,596
Speaker 2: certain like circumstances or situations for each individual life and

515
00:29:21,636 --> 00:29:24,196
Speaker 2: like what you push back or what you contribute towards

516
00:29:24,196 --> 00:29:27,796
Speaker 2: it versus what you don't how much of that is

517
00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:32,276
Speaker 2: like your responsibility and like almost even like as being

518
00:29:32,276 --> 00:29:36,116
Speaker 2: as an artist, are you like challenging against like your

519
00:29:36,236 --> 00:29:38,676
Speaker 2: nature and what God intended you to do? So that

520
00:29:38,676 --> 00:29:40,156
Speaker 2: that's kind of like I.

521
00:29:40,076 --> 00:29:42,116
Speaker 1: Mean, so you feel like maybe God was not intending

522
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:42,716
Speaker 1: for you to be an.

523
00:29:42,636 --> 00:29:48,116
Speaker 2: Artist, yeah, or maybe that your those like your gifts

524
00:29:48,196 --> 00:29:52,076
Speaker 2: or abilities could be better placed through other things instead

525
00:29:52,076 --> 00:29:53,236
Speaker 2: of this, Like was.

526
00:29:53,196 --> 00:29:55,316
Speaker 1: It teaching that was the other thing?

527
00:29:55,356 --> 00:29:56,396
Speaker 2: Could you another thing?

528
00:29:56,476 --> 00:29:56,676
Speaker 1: Yeah?

529
00:29:56,716 --> 00:29:59,036
Speaker 2: I could see another life path where that was like

530
00:29:59,596 --> 00:30:04,396
Speaker 2: where I like put my efforts and my gifts towards

531
00:30:04,476 --> 00:30:06,796
Speaker 2: or I don't know, like being a mother or being

532
00:30:06,916 --> 00:30:09,636
Speaker 2: like you know, these other roles or yeah, these other

533
00:30:09,716 --> 00:30:12,436
Speaker 2: roles in life that like I haven't necessarily chosen or

534
00:30:12,476 --> 00:30:17,796
Speaker 2: hasn't haven't happened. So that was the crisis of that song.

535
00:30:19,636 --> 00:30:21,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, like choosing Yeah, I don't know,

536
00:30:21,876 --> 00:30:23,756
Speaker 1: just as like a parent now three times over. I

537
00:30:23,796 --> 00:30:25,756
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think I've ever chose.

538
00:30:27,876 --> 00:30:28,676
Speaker 2: You were chosen.

539
00:30:29,596 --> 00:30:32,356
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was that was the other way I was chosen. So,

540
00:30:32,636 --> 00:30:36,116
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just sure when it's funny, we always

541
00:30:36,116 --> 00:30:37,596
Speaker 1: think about that as a good you know, when I

542
00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:39,396
Speaker 1: talk to other people, like, I don't know if I

543
00:30:39,436 --> 00:30:41,116
Speaker 1: want to, I don't know if it's like so much

544
00:30:41,156 --> 00:30:42,916
Speaker 1: up to you, you know, I don't know it's so

545
00:30:42,956 --> 00:30:47,316
Speaker 1: much up to any of us, you know. So you know,

546
00:30:48,156 --> 00:30:49,276
Speaker 1: but it's interesting.

547
00:30:49,316 --> 00:30:51,636
Speaker 2: I mean, well, it's not that I see it that way.

548
00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:55,036
Speaker 2: It's just that kind of like those curiosities coming up,

549
00:30:55,156 --> 00:31:00,756
Speaker 2: you know. And yeah, I encountered some like weird poem

550
00:31:00,796 --> 00:31:03,836
Speaker 2: that was talking about an artist as like a thief

551
00:31:04,076 --> 00:31:07,356
Speaker 2: or like a sort of like a con artist, like

552
00:31:07,596 --> 00:31:10,916
Speaker 2: you know, like portray reality in a way that it's

553
00:31:10,956 --> 00:31:13,836
Speaker 2: not and like taking your money for it.

554
00:31:14,076 --> 00:31:14,316
Speaker 1: You know.

555
00:31:14,356 --> 00:31:16,676
Speaker 2: And it's it's just like a weird, funny, interesting concept

556
00:31:16,756 --> 00:31:18,836
Speaker 2: to me, right where it's like an artist kind of

557
00:31:18,876 --> 00:31:22,916
Speaker 2: demands a lot from you they can, and there's this

558
00:31:23,236 --> 00:31:26,276
Speaker 2: of like narcissism involved, and it's like their their job

559
00:31:26,436 --> 00:31:30,236
Speaker 2: is to like create a reality that's not reality. And

560
00:31:30,316 --> 00:31:31,916
Speaker 2: like sell you on it.

561
00:31:32,796 --> 00:31:38,756
Speaker 1: This is a that's a very Bay area. Yeah, person,

562
00:31:39,036 --> 00:31:40,396
Speaker 1: I'm living down here in l A. And it's like

563
00:31:41,396 --> 00:31:43,396
Speaker 1: normal than me. Take the money and run.

564
00:31:45,036 --> 00:31:46,716
Speaker 2: I know. That's why I need to move down here.

565
00:31:48,876 --> 00:31:50,876
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, but it's not like it's not a

566
00:31:51,116 --> 00:31:54,156
Speaker 1: it's not a wrong interpretation, but you know, or that

567
00:31:54,236 --> 00:31:55,756
Speaker 1: certainly can seem true.

568
00:31:56,116 --> 00:31:56,676
Speaker 3: Yeah.

569
00:31:56,756 --> 00:32:00,436
Speaker 1: What other stuff were you reading or watching or listening

570
00:32:00,476 --> 00:32:02,356
Speaker 1: to around this?

571
00:32:02,836 --> 00:32:05,076
Speaker 2: Hmm? I did a lot less of that. I mean

572
00:32:05,396 --> 00:32:07,276
Speaker 2: also for Portrait of My Heart. I had seen that

573
00:32:07,316 --> 00:32:11,676
Speaker 2: movie What Dreams Bake and that also like inspired with

574
00:32:11,756 --> 00:32:15,636
Speaker 2: Robin Williams and Cuba getting juniors in it, and he's

575
00:32:15,676 --> 00:32:18,196
Speaker 2: the angel if I ever saw it, he did it.

576
00:32:18,396 --> 00:32:19,956
Speaker 1: I remember the movie It's Freaky.

577
00:32:20,876 --> 00:32:23,596
Speaker 2: That also lended into a lot of the like imagery

578
00:32:23,636 --> 00:32:26,996
Speaker 2: in that song, because it's like he his wife passes

579
00:32:27,036 --> 00:32:29,276
Speaker 2: away and he's trying to like rescue her from health

580
00:32:29,956 --> 00:32:32,916
Speaker 2: and he goes on this whole odyssey and uh, the

581
00:32:32,996 --> 00:32:35,036
Speaker 2: way she was a painter in the movie and so

582
00:32:35,236 --> 00:32:38,516
Speaker 2: like her re out, like her Heaven I think is

583
00:32:38,596 --> 00:32:41,916
Speaker 2: like all like watercolor painting, and it's like really beautiful.

584
00:32:42,076 --> 00:32:44,236
Speaker 2: She moves through it and it's like the trees are

585
00:32:44,276 --> 00:32:47,636
Speaker 2: all rippling with paint and stuff, and so that that

586
00:32:47,756 --> 00:32:49,756
Speaker 2: was the I had seen it a long time ago

587
00:32:50,236 --> 00:32:53,476
Speaker 2: and always was kind of freaked out by it by

588
00:32:53,556 --> 00:32:56,716
Speaker 2: it and it's a really intense movie, but it's also

589
00:32:56,756 --> 00:32:58,596
Speaker 2: so beautiful, and I had watched it again and that

590
00:32:58,676 --> 00:33:00,996
Speaker 2: kind of helped me with that song Portrait of My

591
00:33:01,036 --> 00:33:02,796
Speaker 2: Heart and just like kind of like that theme in

592
00:33:02,836 --> 00:33:06,636
Speaker 2: general of just like painting and yeah, and yeah, other

593
00:33:06,756 --> 00:33:11,796
Speaker 2: books like mount Anlo that's a song based off that,

594
00:33:12,036 --> 00:33:14,676
Speaker 2: And that's a book that I really enjoyed. I found

595
00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:15,156
Speaker 2: it at.

596
00:33:15,116 --> 00:33:17,476
Speaker 1: Wait, it's a book, Mountain, not analog. I didn't know

597
00:33:17,516 --> 00:33:19,276
Speaker 1: there was a book. Yeah, I loved that title.

598
00:33:19,636 --> 00:33:22,596
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just gonna call it an analog. But

599
00:33:22,676 --> 00:33:24,836
Speaker 2: I'm glad I threw I kept the Mountain so anyone

600
00:33:24,876 --> 00:33:28,476
Speaker 2: can like look it up and hopefully read it. It's

601
00:33:28,796 --> 00:33:33,396
Speaker 2: I found it. There's this bookstore and Silverlate called Stories.

602
00:33:33,876 --> 00:33:35,436
Speaker 2: One of the times I was out here, it was

603
00:33:35,556 --> 00:33:39,076
Speaker 2: up on the shelf for like staff picks, and I

604
00:33:39,156 --> 00:33:45,156
Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's like inspired Alejandro Jodrowski's Holy Mountain,

605
00:33:45,516 --> 00:33:48,236
Speaker 2: and so he was inspired by that book to make that.

606
00:33:48,116 --> 00:33:51,436
Speaker 1: Movie and analog. Yeah, no way, well.

607
00:33:51,436 --> 00:33:55,796
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and it's beautiful. It's just like it's like

608
00:33:55,876 --> 00:34:00,636
Speaker 2: an adventure story about a group of mountaineers that try

609
00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:05,076
Speaker 2: to scale this mythic mountain that's supposed to exist somewhere,

610
00:34:05,156 --> 00:34:08,436
Speaker 2: but it's like hidden from from view and you can

611
00:34:08,436 --> 00:34:13,636
Speaker 2: only you know, find it if you're coming with like

612
00:34:13,676 --> 00:34:17,996
Speaker 2: a pure heart and intentions. And there's just like weird

613
00:34:18,356 --> 00:34:22,716
Speaker 2: mystical concepts in it that I really latched onto and

614
00:34:23,716 --> 00:34:26,076
Speaker 2: it tried to infuse in the song. And you know,

615
00:34:26,116 --> 00:34:29,396
Speaker 2: they're like sailing towards this mountain, so I'm sort of

616
00:34:29,476 --> 00:34:33,316
Speaker 2: trying to create that. Like there's like this noise starts

617
00:34:33,356 --> 00:34:35,196
Speaker 2: and like grows all the way up till the end

618
00:34:35,196 --> 00:34:37,916
Speaker 2: of the song. It'supposed to sound like waves. Tried to

619
00:34:37,956 --> 00:34:39,196
Speaker 2: like set the scene that way.

620
00:34:39,556 --> 00:34:42,796
Speaker 1: Yeah, good music can be so dense sometimes in like

621
00:34:42,996 --> 00:34:46,636
Speaker 1: really cool ways, Like like I don't mean that dense,

622
00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:51,716
Speaker 1: maybe lush is the word, but do things tend to

623
00:34:51,756 --> 00:34:54,916
Speaker 1: start more simply and then did they come to you

624
00:34:54,956 --> 00:34:58,036
Speaker 1: sort of like with almost pre arranged in a sense

625
00:34:58,036 --> 00:35:00,676
Speaker 1: of like you kind of know all the different kinds

626
00:35:00,676 --> 00:35:02,556
Speaker 1: of sounds you want in this thing.

627
00:35:02,996 --> 00:35:05,676
Speaker 2: I think that's that's more the case like I usually have.

628
00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:09,876
Speaker 2: It's more about reeling back than like adding a bunch

629
00:35:09,956 --> 00:35:12,716
Speaker 2: more like That's never really been a big struggle with

630
00:35:12,756 --> 00:35:15,516
Speaker 2: me as far as like arranging or writing a song.

631
00:35:15,676 --> 00:35:18,196
Speaker 2: Was just like some people describe like they can't stop

632
00:35:18,276 --> 00:35:20,916
Speaker 2: or they keep adding stuff or don't know when to stop.

633
00:35:20,956 --> 00:35:23,876
Speaker 2: I feel like I always know when to stop, and

634
00:35:24,276 --> 00:35:27,036
Speaker 2: usually I'm kind of stripping things back. That's kind of

635
00:35:27,036 --> 00:35:30,836
Speaker 2: more the process and some more than others. Like I

636
00:35:30,876 --> 00:35:34,556
Speaker 2: think the most challenging track was Waterfall, where I played

637
00:35:34,556 --> 00:35:37,316
Speaker 2: around with so many different versions and like tempos and

638
00:35:37,476 --> 00:35:40,916
Speaker 2: nothing felt quite right and we landed somewhere that I'm

639
00:35:40,956 --> 00:35:44,516
Speaker 2: happy with. That's my favorite song on the album, as

640
00:35:44,516 --> 00:35:48,116
Speaker 2: long as it's capturing the core in a really authentic

641
00:35:48,156 --> 00:35:49,836
Speaker 2: way that I'm happy and I kind of feel like

642
00:35:49,876 --> 00:35:52,916
Speaker 2: the ornamentation of things can kind of be interchangeable.

643
00:35:53,996 --> 00:35:56,716
Speaker 1: What makes Waterfall your favorite song?

644
00:35:57,876 --> 00:36:00,876
Speaker 2: I think because it was such a puzzle to hack

645
00:36:00,956 --> 00:36:03,676
Speaker 2: and like figure out that it was just so satisfying

646
00:36:03,716 --> 00:36:05,876
Speaker 2: once it really clicked, because I was kind of like, damn,

647
00:36:05,916 --> 00:36:07,836
Speaker 2: am I going to compromise and just kind of put

648
00:36:07,836 --> 00:36:10,236
Speaker 2: this out even though it doesn't feel one hundred percent right,

649
00:36:10,276 --> 00:36:12,356
Speaker 2: and I really didn't want to do that. And then

650
00:36:12,436 --> 00:36:15,036
Speaker 2: at the last minute it kind of fell together. And

651
00:36:16,156 --> 00:36:22,716
Speaker 2: I was in Athens, Georgia mixing the album with Yeah,

652
00:36:23,036 --> 00:36:26,516
Speaker 2: like a couple days left, and I still didn't have

653
00:36:26,556 --> 00:36:29,116
Speaker 2: the lyrics really figured out. I was like, well, mix

654
00:36:29,196 --> 00:36:32,836
Speaker 2: the song last and like hopefully something comes together. And

655
00:36:33,596 --> 00:36:36,516
Speaker 2: I was driving home and it's like the like the

656
00:36:36,676 --> 00:36:41,116
Speaker 2: like country South darkness that's like ooh, like it's just

657
00:36:41,276 --> 00:36:43,396
Speaker 2: you feel it and your bones kind of a thing.

658
00:36:43,436 --> 00:36:45,956
Speaker 2: And I was driving and listening to the demo and

659
00:36:45,996 --> 00:36:51,556
Speaker 2: like started to get that like shivery feeling where it's

660
00:36:51,596 --> 00:36:54,596
Speaker 2: like ooh, I feel like kind of scared but like

661
00:36:54,916 --> 00:36:57,596
Speaker 2: also like dangerous right now. And I felt like this

662
00:36:57,756 --> 00:37:00,876
Speaker 2: rush of like I don't know, just like a flash

663
00:37:00,876 --> 00:37:03,996
Speaker 2: of inspiration and helped me figure out the lyrics on that.

664
00:37:04,716 --> 00:37:07,476
Speaker 2: But it was amazing. There's always there's always a story

665
00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:11,116
Speaker 2: like that, like last minute some things like he had

666
00:37:11,116 --> 00:37:14,516
Speaker 2: to get to this point to finally be handed that.

667
00:37:14,516 --> 00:37:16,796
Speaker 2: That's how I feel about that track, So it's a favorite.

668
00:37:16,836 --> 00:37:19,436
Speaker 2: And also just the lyrics are super special to me.

669
00:37:20,316 --> 00:37:25,036
Speaker 2: It's about losing somebody and like I lost a friend

670
00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:29,676
Speaker 2: of mine, David who also inspired me to start making music,

671
00:37:30,396 --> 00:37:32,116
Speaker 2: and so I had him in mind and was like

672
00:37:32,156 --> 00:37:35,996
Speaker 2: thinking about him through this process and like kind of

673
00:37:35,996 --> 00:37:40,596
Speaker 2: being like my guiding angel through this whole experience of

674
00:37:40,716 --> 00:37:43,276
Speaker 2: being an artist. Now, so the song is dedicated to

675
00:37:43,396 --> 00:37:47,956
Speaker 2: him and thinking about grief as like it's just change

676
00:37:48,036 --> 00:37:48,716
Speaker 2: as a form.

677
00:37:48,556 --> 00:37:51,716
Speaker 1: Of change, and yeah, yes, what what happened?

678
00:37:52,476 --> 00:37:57,636
Speaker 2: He died tragically and he was hit by a unibus

679
00:37:57,916 --> 00:38:01,436
Speaker 2: and it was like he was only we were all

680
00:38:01,476 --> 00:38:04,596
Speaker 2: like in our early twenties twenty two at the time.

681
00:38:04,876 --> 00:38:06,956
Speaker 2: This was at the Telegraph house that we were all

682
00:38:07,036 --> 00:38:08,876
Speaker 2: living in, so he was one of my roommates. And

683
00:38:09,276 --> 00:38:16,236
Speaker 2: this is like a beautiful, flamboyant person who would just

684
00:38:16,276 --> 00:38:18,196
Speaker 2: like bust into my room all the time and be like,

685
00:38:18,956 --> 00:38:23,036
Speaker 2: let's go do stuff together. So I moved into his

686
00:38:23,156 --> 00:38:26,276
Speaker 2: room after he had passed, like later months later, and

687
00:38:26,356 --> 00:38:28,436
Speaker 2: that's when I started getting music equipment because I was

688
00:38:28,436 --> 00:38:30,196
Speaker 2: like I feel him. I could feel him in the room,

689
00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:33,676
Speaker 2: and I feel like he would want me to be

690
00:38:33,836 --> 00:38:37,996
Speaker 2: making stuff. Wow, Yeah, I wanted to, like I always

691
00:38:38,316 --> 00:38:40,956
Speaker 2: sing and like make things, but I didn't think my

692
00:38:41,036 --> 00:38:43,916
Speaker 2: voice was strong, Like it was something that I didn't

693
00:38:44,436 --> 00:38:48,556
Speaker 2: push it or try to like take it seriously. So yeah,

694
00:38:48,636 --> 00:38:50,596
Speaker 2: I was like, this is just another tool for me

695
00:38:50,796 --> 00:38:53,916
Speaker 2: when I started making music to like, you know, just

696
00:38:53,996 --> 00:38:56,156
Speaker 2: kind of like the like producer who also makes music

697
00:38:56,236 --> 00:39:00,596
Speaker 2: sort of thing where the voice is just being utilized

698
00:39:00,636 --> 00:39:03,196
Speaker 2: hopefully like as another instrument. But it wasn't something like

699
00:39:03,236 --> 00:39:05,676
Speaker 2: where I came in as like I'm a singer and

700
00:39:05,716 --> 00:39:08,596
Speaker 2: then you know, I feel a lot more confident in

701
00:39:08,596 --> 00:39:13,156
Speaker 2: my voice now it's grown on me. But yeah, moments

702
00:39:13,196 --> 00:39:15,516
Speaker 2: of songs like Alibi or certain songs, I'm just like

703
00:39:16,236 --> 00:39:18,716
Speaker 2: it feels like to me, like to me too much

704
00:39:18,796 --> 00:39:19,356
Speaker 2: me in there.

705
00:39:20,276 --> 00:39:20,996
Speaker 1: It's interesting.

706
00:39:21,276 --> 00:39:24,716
Speaker 2: It's too much like in this track like Analog, where

707
00:39:24,716 --> 00:39:26,316
Speaker 2: it's like I can kind of feel like I'm like

708
00:39:27,316 --> 00:39:30,876
Speaker 2: I'm just a part of the music more got it, Yeah,

709
00:39:30,916 --> 00:39:33,356
Speaker 2: part of the tapestry. And then in Alibi it's like

710
00:39:33,476 --> 00:39:37,956
Speaker 2: I'm gotta be like deliver in this this other way

711
00:39:37,996 --> 00:39:41,156
Speaker 2: where it's just a different sensation.

712
00:39:41,836 --> 00:39:44,436
Speaker 1: It is a pretty straight straight ahead song. You know

713
00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:47,636
Speaker 1: that feels new for you on the album, And I

714
00:39:47,676 --> 00:39:51,396
Speaker 1: was mentioning earlier like the abundance of guitar also feels

715
00:39:51,556 --> 00:39:54,756
Speaker 1: new for you. Yeah, how did that come together? Like

716
00:39:54,796 --> 00:39:58,156
Speaker 1: what when did you realize you were gonna that was

717
00:39:58,156 --> 00:40:00,116
Speaker 1: gonna be drive a lot of the sound.

718
00:40:00,836 --> 00:40:03,636
Speaker 2: I guess when Portrait clicked in the way that it did,

719
00:40:03,836 --> 00:40:07,196
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I'm going back in time. I'm

720
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:10,236
Speaker 2: going back to this like sort of high school self.

721
00:40:10,276 --> 00:40:12,916
Speaker 2: What was I listening to then? What were the things

722
00:40:12,916 --> 00:40:16,556
Speaker 2: that fueled that attitude? And I needed to kind of

723
00:40:16,596 --> 00:40:21,716
Speaker 2: like get in my radio head bag, my like system

724
00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:25,156
Speaker 2: of a down and smashing pumpkins and all of the

725
00:40:25,276 --> 00:40:31,396
Speaker 2: like kind of nineties grunge rock stuff, And that just

726
00:40:31,636 --> 00:40:34,596
Speaker 2: made it sense to me, like, oh, I'm gonna it's

727
00:40:34,636 --> 00:40:38,916
Speaker 2: gonna be guitar based, and that'll be a sort of

728
00:40:38,956 --> 00:40:42,236
Speaker 2: like touchstone for the first time, because I think before

729
00:40:42,276 --> 00:40:45,756
Speaker 2: then I never like I didn't just made whatever and

730
00:40:45,796 --> 00:40:49,516
Speaker 2: like let the song demand what instruments to use. And

731
00:40:49,596 --> 00:40:51,316
Speaker 2: this time I'm like, I want to have a little

732
00:40:51,316 --> 00:40:55,276
Speaker 2: bit more of a centerpiece here. So rock Palette.

733
00:40:54,996 --> 00:40:58,636
Speaker 1: You forced the issue, We're gonna issue.

734
00:40:59,076 --> 00:40:59,756
Speaker 2: Sit on it.

735
00:40:59,956 --> 00:41:04,636
Speaker 1: Yeah, stay visits down what I don't even know who

736
00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:05,476
Speaker 1: played guitar on that?

737
00:41:05,956 --> 00:41:08,196
Speaker 2: No, my band, So in my band right now, Wyatt

738
00:41:08,236 --> 00:41:12,596
Speaker 2: plays guitar. He played all the songs on Portrait, and

739
00:41:12,636 --> 00:41:16,076
Speaker 2: we had a couple of guests like on Alibi, Pat

740
00:41:16,116 --> 00:41:21,676
Speaker 2: from Turnstile like also played on that and Braxton from Zulu.

741
00:41:22,036 --> 00:41:24,956
Speaker 2: So yeah, but Whyatt held down and like helped me

742
00:41:25,076 --> 00:41:27,236
Speaker 2: like arrange and write a lot of this stuff. And

743
00:41:28,436 --> 00:41:31,596
Speaker 2: then Julio it's our bass player. He's a jazz player.

744
00:41:31,836 --> 00:41:35,956
Speaker 2: He's like you know his style. He's like a music addict.

745
00:41:35,956 --> 00:41:38,476
Speaker 2: He can't stop playing music, you know, like every day

746
00:41:38,476 --> 00:41:41,956
Speaker 2: he has a gig. And he always mixed the live

747
00:41:42,036 --> 00:41:46,956
Speaker 2: performances really dynamic. And I'll be like, Okay, we have

748
00:41:46,996 --> 00:41:49,196
Speaker 2: our set lists. This is what we're gonna do every night,

749
00:41:49,556 --> 00:41:51,316
Speaker 2: you know, because it feels good to kind of just

750
00:41:51,316 --> 00:41:54,516
Speaker 2: like lock in and get better at the same thing.

751
00:41:54,556 --> 00:41:57,156
Speaker 2: And he'll be like, this is boring. We gotta do

752
00:41:57,356 --> 00:41:59,516
Speaker 2: like I'm gonna do something different every night, you know.

753
00:41:59,676 --> 00:42:02,756
Speaker 1: Like, so who's on Satisfaction? Is that? Why?

754
00:42:03,716 --> 00:42:04,156
Speaker 2: Yeah?

755
00:42:04,316 --> 00:42:08,316
Speaker 1: That gets pretty hardcore? What did that call him at

756
00:42:08,316 --> 00:42:10,636
Speaker 1: the end? Or were you like we're gonna for sure

757
00:42:10,796 --> 00:42:13,196
Speaker 1: just gonna like funny, did you know from the jump

758
00:42:13,276 --> 00:42:16,596
Speaker 1: that you were going to song would end up like yeah,

759
00:42:17,036 --> 00:42:18,156
Speaker 1: turn that into like a slayer.

760
00:42:20,996 --> 00:42:24,516
Speaker 2: I'm trying to remember where that song even when I

761
00:42:24,556 --> 00:42:27,996
Speaker 2: wrote that one. I think it was kind of like

762
00:42:28,076 --> 00:42:32,916
Speaker 2: having this more like wicked synth flare to it at first,

763
00:42:32,996 --> 00:42:37,076
Speaker 2: Like I remember making that the guitar line that's like

764
00:42:37,276 --> 00:42:40,956
Speaker 2: no no, no, no no no, and it kind of

765
00:42:40,996 --> 00:42:43,436
Speaker 2: had more of like a Queen of Wands sort of

766
00:42:43,516 --> 00:42:48,876
Speaker 2: like prog synth rock feeling to it. Like I started

767
00:42:48,916 --> 00:42:51,956
Speaker 2: to get real theatrical with like all the synth work

768
00:42:52,036 --> 00:42:53,356
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I'm like, what would it sound like

769
00:42:53,356 --> 00:42:54,916
Speaker 2: it was stripped down and just like a much more

770
00:42:54,956 --> 00:42:58,396
Speaker 2: brutal and just guitar instead of all this like chaotic

771
00:42:59,036 --> 00:43:00,556
Speaker 2: synth stuff happening.

772
00:43:01,236 --> 00:43:05,436
Speaker 1: Like the guitar was down bad for a while. Yeah,

773
00:43:05,836 --> 00:43:10,876
Speaker 1: like it could use a renaissance, like I like having music,

774
00:43:10,916 --> 00:43:12,596
Speaker 1: so I was, but it's just it was such a

775
00:43:12,636 --> 00:43:17,396
Speaker 1: wild that wasn't a flavor I was used to from

776
00:43:17,476 --> 00:43:18,556
Speaker 1: your song.

777
00:43:19,276 --> 00:43:24,076
Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I know. I mean I think about

778
00:43:24,076 --> 00:43:27,356
Speaker 2: some Pantheon stuff and like I would have the impulse

779
00:43:27,436 --> 00:43:30,036
Speaker 2: to do kind of what I'm doing on Satisfaction or

780
00:43:30,076 --> 00:43:32,196
Speaker 2: with like other heavier tracks, but it's like I just

781
00:43:32,236 --> 00:43:35,956
Speaker 2: didn't have the means too, like real fun. I tried

782
00:43:35,996 --> 00:43:38,356
Speaker 2: to kind of go there and make this like sort

783
00:43:38,356 --> 00:43:42,276
Speaker 2: of like doom metal guitar, but with the synth. So

784
00:43:42,276 --> 00:43:45,356
Speaker 2: I would just like emulate what I wanted to sound

785
00:43:45,436 --> 00:43:49,076
Speaker 2: like on on the gino And what did it lived

786
00:43:49,156 --> 00:43:52,756
Speaker 2: like that I was saying, I feel like the got

787
00:43:52,796 --> 00:43:55,676
Speaker 2: to channel some of those like the first instances of

788
00:43:55,796 --> 00:43:59,796
Speaker 2: music that felt like they were different than what I

789
00:43:59,876 --> 00:44:03,276
Speaker 2: was like growing up listening to, Like my mom listened

790
00:44:03,276 --> 00:44:05,116
Speaker 2: to a lot of neo soul and R and B

791
00:44:05,436 --> 00:44:08,796
Speaker 2: and all that stuff really still comes through too, like

792
00:44:09,436 --> 00:44:11,716
Speaker 2: in the nineties, like Mary J. Blige, like she's one

793
00:44:11,716 --> 00:44:14,116
Speaker 2: of the people who taught me how to sing, and

794
00:44:14,196 --> 00:44:16,836
Speaker 2: Randy and Monica and Tony and like.

795
00:44:16,836 --> 00:44:18,276
Speaker 1: You was like singing other records.

796
00:44:18,516 --> 00:44:21,036
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and then you know, so that was the

797
00:44:21,076 --> 00:44:22,796
Speaker 2: music I was like raised on and like in my

798
00:44:22,836 --> 00:44:25,116
Speaker 2: household and like but then I think some of the

799
00:44:25,196 --> 00:44:28,116
Speaker 2: like alt rock stuff I got into, like AFI and

800
00:44:28,596 --> 00:44:30,276
Speaker 2: like pop punk stuff.

801
00:44:30,356 --> 00:44:31,556
Speaker 1: That was your dad. Yeah.

802
00:44:31,716 --> 00:44:34,996
Speaker 2: No, it was like me in like a suburb and

803
00:44:35,076 --> 00:44:38,076
Speaker 2: like going to Borders Bookstore and being like raised by

804
00:44:38,116 --> 00:44:42,396
Speaker 2: Borders Bookstore and like you know that I'm speaking to

805
00:44:42,516 --> 00:44:46,756
Speaker 2: kind of like oh, hearing something else and feeling like

806
00:44:46,916 --> 00:44:49,836
Speaker 2: what is this like for hearing like system of a

807
00:44:49,916 --> 00:44:53,116
Speaker 2: down for the first time and being like, oh, what

808
00:44:53,356 --> 00:44:56,876
Speaker 2: is this feeling happening right now? Like I didn't know

809
00:44:56,956 --> 00:45:00,396
Speaker 2: I had like these sort of sensations inside, but it's

810
00:45:00,396 --> 00:45:04,676
Speaker 2: speaking to something that was there. And yeah, so Portrait

811
00:45:04,716 --> 00:45:06,796
Speaker 2: of my Heart kind of like drawing from that alt

812
00:45:06,876 --> 00:45:08,836
Speaker 2: rock palette that kind of felt like it kind of

813
00:45:09,196 --> 00:45:14,156
Speaker 2: fueled this new fascination and interests in like this is

814
00:45:14,156 --> 00:45:16,116
Speaker 2: my music too, Like this this is stuff that I

815
00:45:16,156 --> 00:45:16,916
Speaker 2: really connect with.

816
00:45:16,996 --> 00:45:19,796
Speaker 1: And like, you play and you played some shows with Turnstile,

817
00:45:19,916 --> 00:45:20,356
Speaker 1: didn't you?

818
00:45:20,636 --> 00:45:26,556
Speaker 2: I did? Yeah, yeah that's I saw Brendan Gates go

819
00:45:26,636 --> 00:45:30,236
Speaker 2: on some podcast maybe and say how he loves Little

820
00:45:30,236 --> 00:45:37,716
Speaker 2: Deer and I was like what it made me so happy?

821
00:45:38,636 --> 00:45:41,156
Speaker 2: And then I think I reached out like DM tim

822
00:45:41,236 --> 00:45:43,716
Speaker 2: or something was like no way, Like that's so cool

823
00:45:43,756 --> 00:45:47,396
Speaker 2: that you even listened to Spelling asked us to play

824
00:45:47,476 --> 00:45:51,276
Speaker 2: some shows. We played open for them in Vegas and

825
00:45:51,476 --> 00:45:54,676
Speaker 2: like Tucson, I think, no, Yeah, it was. It was

826
00:45:54,796 --> 00:45:57,636
Speaker 2: so interesting to stand up there in front of their

827
00:45:57,676 --> 00:45:59,396
Speaker 2: crowd in Vegas.

828
00:45:59,996 --> 00:46:00,476
Speaker 1: Vegas.

829
00:46:02,116 --> 00:46:08,116
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of confusion. Yeah, there's a

830
00:46:08,116 --> 00:46:12,156
Speaker 2: lot of like puzzled looks and then kind of like

831
00:46:12,316 --> 00:46:14,156
Speaker 2: saw some people converted, like.

832
00:46:14,276 --> 00:46:16,756
Speaker 1: The best kinds of shows of I love those, man.

833
00:46:16,796 --> 00:46:19,876
Speaker 1: I love when it's just not like the perfect match

834
00:46:19,916 --> 00:46:23,276
Speaker 1: for the audience, you know, like that's the most fun. Yeah.

835
00:46:23,396 --> 00:46:27,116
Speaker 2: I thrive on that too, Like I like seeing the

836
00:46:27,276 --> 00:46:32,676
Speaker 2: sort of perplexed crowd and then some heads nodding and

837
00:46:32,756 --> 00:46:42,476
Speaker 2: be like I don't know, okay, Yeah, it was a

838
00:46:42,516 --> 00:46:45,716
Speaker 2: lot of fun. And I love his voice like a

839
00:46:45,796 --> 00:46:49,556
Speaker 2: portrait of my heart. We're working on doing a remix

840
00:46:49,596 --> 00:46:53,156
Speaker 2: with him, so like featuring him on one of the tracks.

841
00:46:53,196 --> 00:46:54,436
Speaker 2: It's just gonna be really great.

842
00:46:55,596 --> 00:46:57,076
Speaker 1: After this break, we'll be back with the rest of

843
00:46:57,116 --> 00:47:04,436
Speaker 1: my conversation with Spelling. Yeah, you're doing a whole remix

844
00:47:05,036 --> 00:47:07,436
Speaker 1: like release of that album, but it's not gonna come.

845
00:47:08,596 --> 00:47:11,916
Speaker 2: Yeah, just be a few tracks, and like Simon and

846
00:47:11,916 --> 00:47:15,596
Speaker 2: I are working on those like remixed versions. And the

847
00:47:15,716 --> 00:47:18,916
Speaker 2: last two years of just put more effort into connecting

848
00:47:18,956 --> 00:47:22,076
Speaker 2: with other artists like that I really like like Brendan,

849
00:47:22,196 --> 00:47:25,676
Speaker 2: and it to me like that's the biggest like affirmation

850
00:47:25,756 --> 00:47:27,836
Speaker 2: along the way, like, oh, these artists I really love,

851
00:47:28,796 --> 00:47:32,396
Speaker 2: like they love Spelling, and what can I like gain

852
00:47:32,476 --> 00:47:35,516
Speaker 2: from that as far as just like creative collaboration and

853
00:47:35,916 --> 00:47:38,156
Speaker 2: seeing what fusion will come from, because I think it's

854
00:47:38,196 --> 00:47:40,716
Speaker 2: pretty all over the spectrum. Like the people who are

855
00:47:40,756 --> 00:47:43,716
Speaker 2: interested in Spelling isn't like they aren't coming from this,

856
00:47:43,916 --> 00:47:48,356
Speaker 2: Like I'm interested in the music because I like hardcore music,

857
00:47:48,436 --> 00:47:51,156
Speaker 2: or I like, you know, this style of music, or

858
00:47:51,636 --> 00:47:53,236
Speaker 2: it's just all over the map.

859
00:47:53,196 --> 00:47:55,676
Speaker 1: Like because I don't know if there's like I don't

860
00:47:55,676 --> 00:47:58,596
Speaker 1: know if you could do an algorithmic like if you

861
00:47:58,676 --> 00:48:01,396
Speaker 1: listen to Spelling, you would also like like it's nothing

862
00:48:04,036 --> 00:48:06,196
Speaker 1: like father to your style.

863
00:48:06,356 --> 00:48:10,956
Speaker 2: You know, there's like sometimes I've like heard my music

864
00:48:10,956 --> 00:48:14,196
Speaker 2: pop up on things I wouldn't expect it to, like algorithmically,

865
00:48:14,876 --> 00:48:16,796
Speaker 2: But then I'm like, oh, I do see the crossover there,

866
00:48:16,996 --> 00:48:21,396
Speaker 2: Like what, I'm a big fan of Cibo Matto and

867
00:48:21,556 --> 00:48:24,076
Speaker 2: I was listening to their album that it sort of

868
00:48:24,076 --> 00:48:27,516
Speaker 2: shuffling other stuff, and then one of my old songs

869
00:48:27,596 --> 00:48:30,116
Speaker 2: was like a jump scare. I was like, what, why

870
00:48:30,116 --> 00:48:33,796
Speaker 2: does this sound so familiar? It was Dirty Desert Dreams

871
00:48:33,836 --> 00:48:38,836
Speaker 2: from Mazy Fly, and I was like, why is this

872
00:48:38,916 --> 00:48:42,636
Speaker 2: playing right now? Yeah? That just sort of I guess

873
00:48:42,676 --> 00:48:44,636
Speaker 2: like synth music.

874
00:48:45,156 --> 00:48:48,756
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess, but I don't know. I mean, yeah, yeah,

875
00:48:49,116 --> 00:48:54,156
Speaker 1: you definitely have a unique style. Yeah, an amalgamation a lot.

876
00:48:54,316 --> 00:48:57,436
Speaker 1: There's a lot going on in there. This is the

877
00:48:57,596 --> 00:49:01,196
Speaker 1: remix I guess, or they just like duets or like

878
00:49:01,516 --> 00:49:04,356
Speaker 1: wait what are the Yeah? How much are you changing

879
00:49:04,396 --> 00:49:04,956
Speaker 1: the songs?

880
00:49:05,516 --> 00:49:07,996
Speaker 2: I want to change them more like Simon and I.

881
00:49:08,196 --> 00:49:11,916
Speaker 2: He's fantastic also, like we have great chemistry. He worked

882
00:49:11,956 --> 00:49:15,996
Speaker 2: on the track sometimes on That's Just My Bloody Valentine

883
00:49:15,996 --> 00:49:18,796
Speaker 2: cover on Portrait of My Heart, and he also did

884
00:49:18,876 --> 00:49:22,276
Speaker 2: Waterfall and Drain, so he helped me just co produce

885
00:49:22,356 --> 00:49:25,036
Speaker 2: those and then I was like, oh man, this was

886
00:49:25,076 --> 00:49:26,996
Speaker 2: so cool. And I didn't really connect with him until

887
00:49:27,036 --> 00:49:29,556
Speaker 2: towards the tail end of the whole process, and I

888
00:49:29,596 --> 00:49:32,036
Speaker 2: was like, I wish we would have connected way earlier.

889
00:49:32,076 --> 00:49:35,276
Speaker 2: But it's cool. And now I'm like, yeah, let's definitely

890
00:49:35,276 --> 00:49:38,596
Speaker 2: do the remixes together. So so far we're working on three.

891
00:49:38,756 --> 00:49:41,356
Speaker 2: There's I kind of wanted to like keep this a

892
00:49:41,396 --> 00:49:43,596
Speaker 2: surprise though, like who the features are.

893
00:49:43,596 --> 00:49:46,476
Speaker 1: Gotta gotta gotta got it. He worked with the Rabbi

894
00:49:46,636 --> 00:49:50,716
Speaker 1: Zell on the project. Who you know, it's done a

895
00:49:50,756 --> 00:49:53,436
Speaker 1: lot of good work for us and like a bunch

896
00:49:53,436 --> 00:49:55,356
Speaker 1: of other people, how was that?

897
00:49:56,156 --> 00:49:58,916
Speaker 2: It was great? You know, I feel like that was

898
00:49:59,596 --> 00:50:04,316
Speaker 2: my first experience working with the producer. Everything has been

899
00:50:04,356 --> 00:50:07,796
Speaker 2: self produced before, so there's there was definitely like a

900
00:50:07,996 --> 00:50:12,196
Speaker 2: sort of an internal struggle at the concept at first,

901
00:50:12,236 --> 00:50:16,636
Speaker 2: and I knew it would really it would really benefit

902
00:50:16,716 --> 00:50:20,756
Speaker 2: me and help me grow just to get that opportunity.

903
00:50:20,836 --> 00:50:23,796
Speaker 2: So when in and I feel like fifty to fifty,

904
00:50:23,956 --> 00:50:26,316
Speaker 2: like you don't know if you're gonna vibe with someone

905
00:50:26,556 --> 00:50:28,876
Speaker 2: then you can even if you like get along, and

906
00:50:28,916 --> 00:50:31,676
Speaker 2: like it's like, how is that going to translate when

907
00:50:31,716 --> 00:50:35,036
Speaker 2: it comes to like these creative decisions? And so I've

908
00:50:35,076 --> 00:50:37,116
Speaker 2: come a long way as a person as far as

909
00:50:37,196 --> 00:50:39,996
Speaker 2: like being able to even be in that scenario and

910
00:50:40,076 --> 00:50:42,436
Speaker 2: context like what you so would probably just give me

911
00:50:42,476 --> 00:50:47,716
Speaker 2: so much dread and anxiety. But he's the loss of control,

912
00:50:47,876 --> 00:50:51,236
Speaker 2: the loss of control and also just having to make

913
00:50:51,276 --> 00:50:55,276
Speaker 2: decisions with someone, you know, because I think when I'm

914
00:50:55,316 --> 00:50:57,596
Speaker 2: working on my own and solo capacity, which I usually

915
00:50:57,636 --> 00:51:01,476
Speaker 2: do producing, it's like I can take as much time

916
00:51:01,476 --> 00:51:04,796
Speaker 2: as I need and like, you know, like there isn't

917
00:51:04,836 --> 00:51:08,556
Speaker 2: this need to communicate actively, like it's just an internal communication.

918
00:51:08,676 --> 00:51:12,636
Speaker 2: So I was like still a little nervous, but he's great,

919
00:51:12,716 --> 00:51:15,796
Speaker 2: Like he's made everything feel so casual. I don't know

920
00:51:15,876 --> 00:51:18,916
Speaker 2: what I was expecting, but yeah, he just had this

921
00:51:19,236 --> 00:51:23,036
Speaker 2: confidence and like he remember him being like he showed

922
00:51:23,036 --> 00:51:25,716
Speaker 2: me what he was sort of starting out with and

923
00:51:25,756 --> 00:51:28,516
Speaker 2: he's like and I was already really digging it, and

924
00:51:28,516 --> 00:51:30,236
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, don't worry, You're gonna leave here with

925
00:51:30,236 --> 00:51:35,436
Speaker 2: something you love. Like just like I was like, okay, confidence,

926
00:51:38,916 --> 00:51:41,916
Speaker 2: I promise, I guarantee it. No, So he just had

927
00:51:41,956 --> 00:51:43,676
Speaker 2: like a really good like, Oh he's great.

928
00:51:43,556 --> 00:51:46,156
Speaker 1: Like he knows how to like, you know, he knows.

929
00:51:45,956 --> 00:51:47,596
Speaker 2: What he's doing, he knows what he's doing, and he

930
00:51:47,676 --> 00:51:50,756
Speaker 2: had I like that sense of assurance because I, you know,

931
00:51:51,116 --> 00:51:52,316
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in the room with someone

932
00:51:52,356 --> 00:51:54,956
Speaker 2: that's like m you know, like uh, like I want

933
00:51:55,076 --> 00:51:58,836
Speaker 2: like do what you do best and like work from that.

934
00:51:59,036 --> 00:52:02,236
Speaker 2: And like that felt really comforting just to like things

935
00:52:02,236 --> 00:52:05,756
Speaker 2: didn't feel awkward at all. And also it was just

936
00:52:05,796 --> 00:52:07,916
Speaker 2: awesome to see that was my kind of my all

937
00:52:08,156 --> 00:52:11,076
Speaker 2: only one of few experiences seeing someone just like operate

938
00:52:11,156 --> 00:52:13,556
Speaker 2: as a producer too, and I'm like, oh, he's doing

939
00:52:13,596 --> 00:52:15,836
Speaker 2: these things or whatever, and like I do a lot

940
00:52:15,876 --> 00:52:18,036
Speaker 2: of this stuff too, you know, Like it was just

941
00:52:18,036 --> 00:52:20,876
Speaker 2: like affirming to be like, oh, there wasn't a blueprint.

942
00:52:20,916 --> 00:52:24,996
Speaker 2: There's so much experimentation. There's so much just like fucking

943
00:52:25,036 --> 00:52:29,356
Speaker 2: around with this like tape reel and still the like

944
00:52:29,436 --> 00:52:31,876
Speaker 2: sensations of imposter syndrome come up or it's like what

945
00:52:31,996 --> 00:52:33,996
Speaker 2: I do, is that good enough? Or is it like

946
00:52:34,116 --> 00:52:38,756
Speaker 2: refined enough or whatever? And techniques and it's like we

947
00:52:38,836 --> 00:52:42,596
Speaker 2: all don't know what we're doing in some capacity, like

948
00:52:43,116 --> 00:52:48,116
Speaker 2: the idea of expertise is so relative, and especially in art. Yeah,

949
00:52:48,236 --> 00:52:51,876
Speaker 2: but yeah, he's he's brilliant and like really helped me

950
00:52:51,956 --> 00:52:54,836
Speaker 2: to like stand on ideas I had and be like no,

951
00:52:55,196 --> 00:52:58,396
Speaker 2: like try it, like actually do it, and would follows through.

952
00:52:59,476 --> 00:53:01,716
Speaker 2: And we came up with some just like some really

953
00:53:01,756 --> 00:53:05,076
Speaker 2: fun stuff on Portrait, particularly like we were like strumming

954
00:53:05,076 --> 00:53:08,236
Speaker 2: this trying to get real like pet sounds with it,

955
00:53:08,516 --> 00:53:12,516
Speaker 2: like i'ming the piano keys and like doing all these

956
00:53:12,516 --> 00:53:16,476
Speaker 2: effects on it and just adding subtle little like stuff

957
00:53:16,516 --> 00:53:19,156
Speaker 2: that made a big difference. And I came in with

958
00:53:19,196 --> 00:53:22,516
Speaker 2: this version of the song that was like once again

959
00:53:22,596 --> 00:53:24,756
Speaker 2: like an eight. It was like eight minutes long, and

960
00:53:24,796 --> 00:53:27,796
Speaker 2: he's like, this is cool, but cut this, cut like

961
00:53:28,716 --> 00:53:29,436
Speaker 2: cut it in half.

962
00:53:31,276 --> 00:53:34,036
Speaker 1: Was there like other sections or the preamble.

963
00:53:34,116 --> 00:53:36,356
Speaker 2: I always do this too, And he's like, it's just

964
00:53:36,596 --> 00:53:39,236
Speaker 2: my pop mind, just kind of saying like this doesn't

965
00:53:39,316 --> 00:53:43,476
Speaker 2: happen again anywhere else in the song. I'm like, it

966
00:53:43,516 --> 00:53:48,996
Speaker 2: was this intro stringline countermelody, and I thought that was

967
00:53:49,036 --> 00:53:50,956
Speaker 2: the sickest part of the song. And I was like,

968
00:53:51,036 --> 00:53:52,956
Speaker 2: there's no way, what like, what do you mean cut that?

969
00:53:53,036 --> 00:53:55,156
Speaker 2: Like that? That is the song right there. And he's like,

970
00:53:55,236 --> 00:54:00,236
Speaker 2: it just doesn't happen ever again, like and I'm like, oh,

971
00:54:00,396 --> 00:54:01,996
Speaker 2: you know, like and I'm like, fine, we'll just let's

972
00:54:02,036 --> 00:54:04,476
Speaker 2: try it. Let's try it, and like that little voice

973
00:54:04,516 --> 00:54:07,276
Speaker 2: in my head coming up being like this is a

974
00:54:07,316 --> 00:54:12,796
Speaker 2: mistake working with someone else, like I hate this, no, no, no,

975
00:54:12,836 --> 00:54:14,356
Speaker 2: But it was really good for me to kind of

976
00:54:14,436 --> 00:54:17,396
Speaker 2: just see that happen, like, oh, you know, the thing

977
00:54:17,436 --> 00:54:21,156
Speaker 2: that you think is absolutely right sometimes isn't or that like.

978
00:54:21,916 --> 00:54:25,556
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know to your point about there's no expertise,

979
00:54:25,636 --> 00:54:28,396
Speaker 1: like yeah, we can't even be experts about ourselves and

980
00:54:28,396 --> 00:54:30,156
Speaker 1: what we you know, it's hard to be objective about

981
00:54:30,156 --> 00:54:31,196
Speaker 1: ourselves to anyway.

982
00:54:31,436 --> 00:54:33,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, to be objective, and I always want to just

983
00:54:33,876 --> 00:54:35,556
Speaker 2: do it. It was a good reminder do it takes

984
00:54:35,556 --> 00:54:37,876
Speaker 2: to serve the song, and like, let's just at least

985
00:54:37,876 --> 00:54:40,436
Speaker 2: try it. And I needed that like an outside brain

986
00:54:40,516 --> 00:54:43,356
Speaker 2: to just show it to me in a different lay.

987
00:54:43,556 --> 00:54:45,396
Speaker 2: So bed a really good time.

988
00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:48,036
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting that on this project you both

989
00:54:48,156 --> 00:54:52,236
Speaker 1: want learned how you can work with a producer, but

990
00:54:52,316 --> 00:54:57,036
Speaker 1: also like you like reified your own sort of abilities

991
00:54:57,076 --> 00:55:00,276
Speaker 1: as a producer too, Like you kind of moving forward,

992
00:55:00,316 --> 00:55:02,676
Speaker 1: do you think you want to self produce again or

993
00:55:02,676 --> 00:55:05,676
Speaker 1: do you want to work with someone else again, or there's.

994
00:55:05,516 --> 00:55:07,596
Speaker 2: A sense of like relief and like I was saying,

995
00:55:07,596 --> 00:55:09,596
Speaker 2: I wanted to just go back to me for this

996
00:55:09,716 --> 00:55:13,636
Speaker 2: next project and see what comes out of that. I'm

997
00:55:13,756 --> 00:55:16,996
Speaker 2: really excited to. Like, yeah, I think that that experience

998
00:55:17,036 --> 00:55:19,276
Speaker 2: with Rob was super affirming. I'm like, I feel like

999
00:55:19,316 --> 00:55:21,756
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a strong producer, Like I know what I want,

1000
00:55:21,996 --> 00:55:24,076
Speaker 2: and I think that's the most important thing, is like

1001
00:55:24,156 --> 00:55:28,316
Speaker 2: knowing essentially what you want and acting on it, Like

1002
00:55:28,596 --> 00:55:30,356
Speaker 2: because you could sit there all day with there's so

1003
00:55:30,476 --> 00:55:34,316
Speaker 2: many other versions and options, but ultimately I do know

1004
00:55:34,316 --> 00:55:37,356
Speaker 2: what I want strongly, So I think I'm motivated to

1005
00:55:37,436 --> 00:55:39,876
Speaker 2: kind of just go there for the for what's next

1006
00:55:40,076 --> 00:55:41,236
Speaker 2: like self produce it.

1007
00:55:41,916 --> 00:55:45,116
Speaker 1: So future for spelling is let this album come out,

1008
00:55:45,316 --> 00:55:50,876
Speaker 1: do the tour, move to LA. It's self produced record.

1009
00:55:51,236 --> 00:55:52,076
Speaker 2: Sounds about right.

1010
00:55:52,356 --> 00:55:55,196
Speaker 1: Yeah, well glad you'll be around more.

1011
00:55:55,716 --> 00:56:00,516
Speaker 2: Me too. It's been I don't know. LA is just everything.

1012
00:56:00,756 --> 00:56:03,516
Speaker 2: It's like everything everyone says about it at the same time,

1013
00:56:03,636 --> 00:56:05,516
Speaker 2: like the good and bad. It's all there and.

1014
00:56:05,836 --> 00:56:06,596
Speaker 1: That's very true.

1015
00:56:06,756 --> 00:56:09,836
Speaker 2: Yeah, most of the good mostly mostly kid.

1016
00:56:11,836 --> 00:56:13,796
Speaker 1: Well, congratulations on the new album.

1017
00:56:13,916 --> 00:56:14,316
Speaker 2: Thank you.

1018
00:56:14,996 --> 00:56:18,516
Speaker 1: It's really great and I'm looking forward to spending more

1019
00:56:18,556 --> 00:56:19,076
Speaker 1: time with it.

1020
00:56:19,476 --> 00:56:22,476
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Thanks justin. It's fun talking to you

1021
00:56:22,556 --> 00:56:26,036
Speaker 2: and very official.

1022
00:56:29,876 --> 00:56:32,276
Speaker 1: An episode description, you'll find a link told playlist of

1023
00:56:32,316 --> 00:56:35,156
Speaker 1: some of our favorite spelling songs. Be sure to check

1024
00:56:35,156 --> 00:56:37,876
Speaker 1: out YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast to see

1025
00:56:37,916 --> 00:56:40,556
Speaker 1: all of our video interviews, and be sure to follow

1026
00:56:40,636 --> 00:56:43,756
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod. You can

1027
00:56:43,796 --> 00:56:47,116
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is

1028
00:56:47,156 --> 00:56:50,196
Speaker 1: produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing help from

1029
00:56:50,276 --> 00:56:53,876
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tollinday.

1030
00:56:54,516 --> 00:56:58,036
Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you

1031
00:56:58,116 --> 00:57:01,396
Speaker 1: love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to

1032
00:57:01,516 --> 00:57:05,476
Speaker 1: pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers

1033
00:57:05,516 --> 00:57:08,596
Speaker 1: bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine

1034
00:57:08,636 --> 00:57:12,596
Speaker 1: a month. Look for pushing and Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions,

1035
00:57:13,396 --> 00:57:16,036
Speaker 1: and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate,

1036
00:57:16,076 --> 00:57:18,876
Speaker 1: and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's

1037
00:57:18,876 --> 00:57:20,956
Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.