1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:07,080 Latham Thomas: Welcome back to She Pivots. I'm Latham Thomas. 2 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,599 Emily Tisch Sussman: Welcome back to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk 3 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: with women who dare to pivot out of one career 4 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: and into something new and explore how their personal lives 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:34,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: impacts these decisions. I'm your host Emily Tish Sussman. Today 6 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:38,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: I'm delighted to welcome Latham Thomas Do she Pivots. She 7 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:41,879 Emily Tisch Sussman: is the visionary founder of Mama Glow, a global maternal 8 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: health brand that is redefining the way we think about birth, 9 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: wellness and the power of motherhood. But before she became 10 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: known as the Birth Visionary, Latham's life looked very different. 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: When she gave birth to her son. Everything changed. In 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: her words, twenty minutes after he was born, I knew 13 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: I had to protect this process. That moment sparked her pivot. 14 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: She realized there was a profound lack of cohesive information 15 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,640 Emily Tisch Sussman: and support for birthing people. If she was feeling that gap, 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,119 Emily Tisch Sussman: she wondered, what were women everywhere else experiencing. And while 17 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: that moment in the hospital was the catalyst, the seeds 18 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: of Mama Glow had been planted much earlier. Latham grew 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Emily Tisch Sussman: up with the mother who emphasized bodily autonomy and self knowledge, 20 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: and she often dreamed about what motherhood would one day 21 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,759 Emily Tisch Sussman: mean in her own life. Those influences, combined with her 22 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: personal awakening following her son's birth, led her to build 23 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: something bigger than herself, an organization designed to empower, educate, 24 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: and support birthing people in reclaiming joy and power through 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:54,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: the process of becoming parents. Through Mamma Glow, Latham has 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:58,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: trained hundreds of dulas, supported countless families, and sparked an 27 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: important conversation about maternal health, particularly for Black women in America, 28 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: who continue to face alarming disparities and care. She's also 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: the author of Own Your Glow, a book that blends 30 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: self care, spiritual growth, and women's empowerment. Today, on she Pivots, 31 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: you'll hear how lath Them turned the most personal moment 32 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: of her life into a global movement. Let's jump right in. 33 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,880 Latham Thomas: My name is Latham Thomas, and I'm the founder of 34 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,040 Latham Thomas: the global maternal health and education platform Mama Glow. 35 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: So we're going to go all the way back to childhood. 36 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: Tell us about your family, tell us about you as 37 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: a young kid, Like what did you want to be when you grew up. 38 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,360 Latham Thomas: Well, if we take it all the way back, I 39 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,639 Latham Thomas: think I would start around age four. I grew up 40 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,120 Latham Thomas: with a single mom, and when my mom was pregnant 41 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,520 Latham Thomas: with my sister, I was four years old, and that 42 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,880 Latham Thomas: was kind of a pivotal time because not only was 43 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,560 Latham Thomas: she pregnant, my aunt and my great aunt were also 44 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,880 Latham Thomas: pregnant at the same time, so do within a month 45 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,520 Latham Thomas: of each other, March, April and May. And I was 46 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,520 Latham Thomas: going to be a big sister. And it was exciting. 47 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,880 Latham Thomas: And I think when you're a toddler and you see 48 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,720 Latham Thomas: the world through this lens of fascination, a baby coming 49 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Latham Thomas: into the world is quite exciting. And so I had 50 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Latham Thomas: all the feels. I was really excited to be a 51 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,240 Latham Thomas: big sister. And my mom really prepared me. And what 52 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,880 Latham Thomas: I really will credit her with is, you know, beyond 53 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,640 Latham Thomas: things like pushing us educationally and being kind of a 54 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:36,559 Latham Thomas: sort of a no nonsense. I mean, for many people we grew up in 55 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Latham Thomas: These households whereas like grades, you know, do well in school, 56 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,080 Latham Thomas: and you know, and your performance really matters. But foundationally 57 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,640 Latham Thomas: that came from this desire for me to understand the 58 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,760 Latham Thomas: world around me, and so how she did that was 59 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,400 Latham Thomas: through my interests and so I seemed very interested in 60 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,320 Latham Thomas: the human body and what was happening through her pregnancy. 61 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,160 Latham Thomas: So my mom gave me gray's anatomy coloring books. I 62 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,880 Latham Thomas: learned the anatomical parts by name. And this is really 63 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,040 Latham Thomas: something that people think, well, kids are too young to 64 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,640 Latham Thomas: learn these things. Every young person that I have met, 65 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,880 Latham Thomas: every like little baby under age like five six, they 66 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,520 Latham Thomas: have something that they're obsessed by and they're really good at. 67 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,400 Latham Thomas: Like I have, like doula babies that are like you know, 68 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,680 Latham Thomas: can do the periodic table of elements and like recite 69 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,720 Latham Thomas: it and I'm like, I don't even remember the periodic people elements, right, So. 70 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,359 Latham Thomas: Every kid has this capacity, right, and so it's really 71 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Latham Thomas: an important time to like nurture that and lean in 72 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Latham Thomas: the direction of their desire, but also what's exciting them 73 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,919 Latham Thomas: for learning, and so that's what my mom did. So 74 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:51,360 Latham Thomas: it was all about really, you know, the natural sciences. 75 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,360 Latham Thomas: It was about exploring the human body through a lens 76 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,560 Latham Thomas: also of autonomy and a lens of body literacy. And 77 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,240 Latham Thomas: so she taught me many things, but mainly the big 78 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,760 Latham Thomas: thing for her was also like using the right words 79 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,880 Latham Thomas: to describe our parts. And I think that that was 80 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,960 Latham Thomas: foundationally important because it also helped me, as an older 81 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,800 Latham Thomas: person and a grown version of myself, come to know 82 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,960 Latham Thomas: my body in a way that was empowering. And so 83 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,719 Latham Thomas: and I think in the climate that we currently live, 84 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,120 Latham Thomas: it is important not only to be able to name 85 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,960 Latham Thomas: our parts, but understand how our bodies function, but also 86 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,080 Latham Thomas: understand what we're fighting for, right And so as a child, 87 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,400 Latham Thomas: those seeds were planted, and so that was really for 88 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,240 Latham Thomas: me kind of like the foundation was like having this 89 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,640 Latham Thomas: mom who was really like, you know, educationally focused and 90 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Latham Thomas: who leaned into like my sensibilities. And then fast forward 91 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,400 Latham Thomas: she had my sister. I was really obsessed, you know, 92 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:53,200 Latham Thomas: with the newborn, but also with the process. And my 93 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,520 Latham Thomas: mom reminds me all the time that, you know, she said, 94 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,760 Latham Thomas: we were in the store and someone's like, oh, your 95 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,080 Latham Thomas: mother has a baby in her tongue. Me, I said, no, 96 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,880 Latham Thomas: my mother has a baby in her uterus and it's 97 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,800 Latham Thomas: going to come out of her vagina. And so I 98 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,640 Latham Thomas: was really really ready, you know, for the world in 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,440 Latham Thomas: this sense. So yeah, I would say like my childhood 100 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,200 Latham Thomas: and my upbringing was really about that knowledge sharing and 101 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,600 Latham Thomas: having someone who believed that like I was old enough 102 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Latham Thomas: right to handle this information, and I really now to 103 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,680 Latham Thomas: this day, I encounter so many people in my role, 104 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,560 Latham Thomas: you know, at Mama Glow as an educator and also 105 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,760 Latham Thomas: as a doula to so many people I encounter haven't 106 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:36,160 Latham Thomas: had this education foundationally, and so a lot of what 107 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:40,359 Latham Thomas: we're doing is helping people to remember and recall this information, 108 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,839 Latham Thomas: helping to plant seeds of advocacy but also of empowerment 109 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,200 Latham Thomas: through our bodies and teach body literacy later in life, 110 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,520 Latham Thomas: which is fine, but I do think that it's an 111 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,760 Latham Thomas: incredible thing to learn as early as I did. 112 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: You've mentioned that she taught a really natural perspective, like 113 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: a very natural holistic mind. I don't know how to 114 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:04,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: put it exactly, sort of like a natural holistic I 115 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: guess mindset for raising you and your sister. Did that 116 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,000 Emily Tisch Sussman: come from your mom? Or was that driven by you? 117 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: Who really framed that for you and your upbringing? 118 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:21,240 Latham Thomas: I mean, I think my mom was really intense. She's 119 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,720 Latham Thomas: still here. We connect in different ways now, you know, 120 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:29,200 Latham Thomas: But I think that my upbringing and my experience of 121 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:34,080 Latham Thomas: her parenting was that sometimes it was too much right, 122 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,160 Latham Thomas: so I needed I believe and children can always kind 123 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Latham Thomas: of assess later in life sometimes right, like oh I 124 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,600 Latham Thomas: needed more space, right, or I needed more containment or 125 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,920 Latham Thomas: whatever it is. And so for me, I feel like 126 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:56,040 Latham Thomas: there was a lot of learning that was happening by example. 127 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,720 Latham Thomas: And also there was a lot of strict guydence that 128 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,840 Latham Thomas: could not be like you had to adhere to it, right. 129 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Latham Thomas: There was like not choice. And so I grew up 130 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,240 Latham Thomas: in a house where even though there was like a 131 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,400 Latham Thomas: lot of flow and you know, listening to the body 132 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,080 Latham Thomas: and your natural rhythms, and everybody was naked, and you know, 133 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,200 Latham Thomas: it was like, you know, we come home, we threw 134 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,800 Latham Thomas: off our clothes, like we were never wearing clothes, and so, 135 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,520 Latham Thomas: you know, that kind of upbringing was awesome. But then 136 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,320 Latham Thomas: also there was like a lot of pressure right in 137 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:35,719 Latham Thomas: terms of expectation and performance and perfection. That also created 138 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,600 Latham Thomas: a neurosis that I still have, right, And so I 139 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,680 Latham Thomas: think that you don't realize that until you have a 140 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,880 Latham Thomas: longer time horizon to look at, right, when you think 141 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,280 Latham Thomas: about how much time you've lived. And I'm forty five 142 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,319 Latham Thomas: years alive, and so if I look at this time horizon, 143 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,440 Latham Thomas: I think back, right, I can go back twenty thirty 144 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:02,000 Latham Thomas: forty years and I'm like, oh, this is where this started. Right. 145 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,640 Latham Thomas: So I thank my mom for a lot of the 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,679 Latham Thomas: lessons and stuff, But there's a lot of things that 147 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,840 Latham Thomas: I still work through that were challenging. But I would 148 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:16,840 Latham Thomas: say the nurturing that I needed that maybe wasn't naturally 149 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:22,480 Latham Thomas: coming from the parenting I learned in the world around me, right, 150 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:24,920 Latham Thomas: And so I found it in nature. I found it 151 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,080 Latham Thomas: in my study of plants and plant systems. I found it in building community. 152 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:32,640 Latham Thomas: I found it with other family members in the spaces 153 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,880 Latham Thomas: that we shared together because we were sort of brought 154 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,760 Latham Thomas: up in a broader community, which was really great, but 155 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,800 Latham Thomas: it definitely wasn't like a singular experience. It was definitely like, 156 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,559 Latham Thomas: you know, my grandmother and like my grandpa and my 157 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,120 Latham Thomas: aunts and cousins, like a lot of that sort of 158 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,200 Latham Thomas: childhood was colored by having those people there too, and 159 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,080 Latham Thomas: their influence, like my grandmother's influence, who she was my 160 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,880 Latham Thomas: favorite person really and she's passed on. But everything I 161 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,040 Latham Thomas: wanted to do when I was little, she was just entertained, 162 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,439 Latham Thomas: you know. Like I remember I was picking things out 163 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,280 Latham Thomas: of the garden and I was like, Okay, we're going 164 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:09,920 Latham Thomas: to make a soup.Granny, like, I really want to make a soup. 165 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,319 Latham Thomas: And so I remember I picked these vegetables and I 166 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,920 Latham Thomas: carried them with me in this like little bucket the 167 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,559 Latham Thomas: whole day, and I went all over and I was like, 168 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,640 Latham Thomas: I got to get my vegetables and they were covered 169 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,720 Latham Thomas: in dirt, and I remember I just brought them into 170 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,880 Latham Thomas: the kitchen. I was like, okay, Granny, we have to 171 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,800 Latham Thomas: make soup. And so she was like okay. And then 172 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,600 Latham Thomas: so she cooked everything for me, and she took all 173 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,600 Latham Thomas: the veggies that I made that I brought and she 174 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,680 Latham Thomas: made them into soup and then I ate the soup, 175 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Latham Thomas: and I was so proud of myself. And so she 176 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,520 Latham Thomas: also was one of those people who I felt like 177 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:49,240 Latham Thomas: really just entertained our, you know, our whims as children. 178 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,560 Latham Thomas: She also, you know, my grandmother also gave us like coffee when we were kids, and so so we were drinking coffee and eating pound cake and stuff and like running around and I don't drink coffee today, but as a child. I'm like, why was I drinking coffee at like nine. 179 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,920 Latham Thomas: So there was just this interesting experience of just like 180 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,760 Latham Thomas: the joy and celebration and just sort of living into 181 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:20,000 Latham Thomas: the culture that I was born into and having these 182 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,480 Latham Thomas: matrilineal figures, you know, who were so powerful. 183 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,600 Latham Thomas: But also that I really learned through example, like so 184 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:31,440 Latham Thomas: many things were not spoken, but like we're experienced, right, 185 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,640 Latham Thomas: And so there's a lot of things like even preparation 186 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,640 Latham Thomas: of food where you wouldn't get a recipe, you would 187 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,520 Latham Thomas: just have to be in the kitchen. And if you 188 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,680 Latham Thomas: didn't sit in the kitchen, you wouldn't learn. And so 189 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,280 Latham Thomas: we learned at an early age to sit at the 190 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,719 Latham Thomas: feet of our elders while they were doing things, and 191 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:53,040 Latham Thomas: that we didn't get to actually pick up a spoon or a knife or whatever. We had to watch. 192 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Latham Thomas: And so so much of it was why watching and learning, 193 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Latham Thomas: and that I think primed me for the work I 194 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,880 Latham Thomas: do today with patients, like being able to watch and observe, 195 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Latham Thomas: Like that skill also is really applicable in like doula work, 196 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Latham Thomas: right when you have to watch and really just observe 197 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:22,120 Latham Thomas: someone undergoing this magical process that's unfolding that is not 198 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:25,360 Latham Thomas: about you, right, And so you decenter yourself in these 199 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,080 Latham Thomas: spaces of community where you're invited to learn. And so 200 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,520 Latham Thomas: a lot of these kind of lessons and stuff are 201 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,199 Latham Thomas: things that I pull from professionally, but we're just sort 202 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,120 Latham Thomas: of part of the natural rhythms of how we were raised. 203 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: It's so funny you came back to this point because 204 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:43,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: I made a mental note to ask you to follow 205 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: up on it that you said that a lot of 206 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: things you learned from your mother by observing. Were you 207 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:51,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: thinking specifically of the cooking or was it more the 208 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: way she moved through the world or how she worked. 209 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,120 Latham Thomas: It was that both of those things. It was the 210 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,040 Latham Thomas: way that she moved the world. I learned a lot and. 211 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:07,040 Latham Thomas: Also how she worked as well. She was a project manager. 212 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,080 Latham Thomas: She's really good at being a boss, a leader. She's 213 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,640 Latham Thomas: a really tough boss. So I think it's not like 214 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,280 Latham Thomas: I don't think there's people that can actually work for her, 215 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:20,360 Latham Thomas: but she is really good at leadership, organization, problem solving, right, 216 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,320 Latham Thomas: And I watched a lot of how she did that. 217 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,959 Latham Thomas: But also I watched, you know, how she took care 218 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,880 Latham Thomas: of herself. So she would do massages on Wednesdays, and 219 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,040 Latham Thomas: so there was a girl who would come over, she 220 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,840 Latham Thomas: would bring the table. My mom would essentially go to 221 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:40,760 Latham Thomas: bed almost like she would She would have it be 222 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,120 Latham Thomas: after work that the massage would take place, then she 223 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,760 Latham Thomas: would go to bed, and so me and my sister 224 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,240 Latham Thomas: had to take care of ourselves. So we would I 225 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,520 Latham Thomas: would cook dinner for us, we would look after ourselves 226 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,720 Latham Thomas: with an After the massage, we would have dinner with 227 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,000 Latham Thomas: the massage therapist and then she would teach us skills 228 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,680 Latham Thomas: and so we learned things as well. So I learned 229 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,600 Latham Thomas: really amazing skills that I could use on myself or 230 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,360 Latham Thomas: in my personal life or just know and understand what 231 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,880 Latham Thomas: good touch is, right. And so I think part of that, 232 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,160 Latham Thomas: you know, therapeutic touch was learned, but also something I 233 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,520 Latham Thomas: could harness. And so that was through this broader community 234 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,000 Latham Thomas: of you know, people who were also part of my 235 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,200 Latham Thomas: mom's self care network. So she had that and I 236 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,160 Latham Thomas: learned from that. And then one of the first things 237 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,080 Latham Thomas: she got me when I was an adult was a 238 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,360 Latham Thomas: massage table. Even though I was like, Mom, I can't 239 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,360 Latham Thomas: afford to actually have somebody come, but thank you, you know, 240 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,720 Latham Thomas: and so, but it was nice to have her think 241 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:41,160 Latham Thomas: that this is a way for me to take care 242 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,000 Latham Thomas: of myself. I also saw that, you know, she and 243 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,240 Latham Thomas: my grandmother had these beauty routines like before bed, and 244 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:50,160 Latham Thomas: I you know, if I spent then at my grandmother's 245 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,160 Latham Thomas: house just watching her, like brush her hair and then 246 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,160 Latham Thomas: annoyed her skin and all the things that she would 247 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,440 Latham Thomas: do to kind of take care of herself. When she 248 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,840 Latham Thomas: passed away, she'd like, no ringk. You know, I'm not 249 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,840 Latham Thomas: saying that in a way like that there's an issue 250 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:06,960 Latham Thomas: with them or not, but just like the way that 251 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,520 Latham Thomas: her skin was so preserved that you would have thought 252 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:13,960 Latham Thomas: she was like years younger, but it was because part 253 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,040 Latham Thomas: of it was her maintenance, her self maintenance, right, And 254 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,960 Latham Thomas: I learned through watching her. I learned a lot about 255 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,400 Latham Thomas: self maintenance. And because a lot of I guess how 256 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,520 Latham Thomas: we were brought up, it's like everything was out in 257 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,480 Latham Thomas: the open. My mom told me this once, and I've 258 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,800 Latham Thomas: seen this actually with babies. She told me once that 259 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,560 Latham Thomas: she was in the bathroom and I had a diaper 260 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,040 Latham Thomas: on and I was like bending over like I was 261 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:41,720 Latham Thomas: in half, and I had a tam fon. I was 262 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,720 Latham Thomas: like trying to put it through my diaper, and I 263 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:45,440 Latham Thomas: was like, that is so funny. But then I've seen 264 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,080 Latham Thomas: other babies do that, right, So it's like you're just 265 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,440 Latham Thomas: gonna kind of your dramatic play or the things that 266 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,280 Latham Thomas: you mimic and learn are going to be sort of 267 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,160 Latham Thomas: what you're observing. And so, yeah, a lot of it 268 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:01,800 Latham Thomas: was just observation and not separating children from adult space. 269 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,080 Latham Thomas: And I think that that's really important for them to 270 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,920 Latham Thomas: learn socialization, for them to learn about their culture, for 271 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,680 Latham Thomas: them to understand the language, for them to understand cultural 272 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Latham Thomas: food stuffs, and also practices that we utilize as community 273 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,600 Latham Thomas: to be well. And so whether that's like how we 274 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,960 Latham Thomas: cook and prepare food, or how we move our bodies 275 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,400 Latham Thomas: through dance, or you know, maybe like community things we 276 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,600 Latham Thomas: do like games or other ways that we gather for meals, 277 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,920 Latham Thomas: et cetera. All those things teach us something about culture 278 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,120 Latham Thomas: and where we sit inside of it, right, and what 279 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,920 Latham Thomas: it means to be what it means to be long right, 280 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,560 Latham Thomas: And so I think a lot of yeah, a lot 281 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,880 Latham Thomas: of it was observance. And so for my mom, it 282 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,040 Latham Thomas: was seeing her be in the world in a certain 283 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,680 Latham Thomas: way that I knew that it was possible to kind of be a leader. 284 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,400 Latham Thomas: I didn't know that I would be a leader or 285 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,200 Latham Thomas: that I wasn't like a desire, but I did sort 286 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,040 Latham Thomas: of show up in spaces, you know, academically where I've 287 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,720 Latham Thomas: you know, kind of ended up in you know, positions 288 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,399 Latham Thomas: where I was like a leader or part of a 289 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,400 Latham Thomas: I don't know whether it be like a athletic thing, 290 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,800 Latham Thomas: you know, whatever it was, there were some opportunities where 291 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,520 Latham Thomas: I was called to be a bigger version of myself. 292 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,280 Latham Thomas: I was shy though, Like I was really shy. I 293 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Latham Thomas: did not like the idea of public speaking. I would 294 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,280 Latham Thomas: rather like die at the time, right, And I grew 295 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,040 Latham Thomas: into being a capable of that over time in my 296 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:30,680 Latham Thomas: adult life. Right. 297 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,200 Latham Thomas: But it was really modeled, for sure by the power 298 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,320 Latham Thomas: that my mom sort of showed up in the world with. 299 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:43,120 Latham Thomas: I think, like this kind of sorceress, you know, magical power, 300 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,640 Latham Thomas: this energy also of like I would see her stand 301 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Latham Thomas: up to men, you know, and be in spaces that 302 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,480 Latham Thomas: were male dominated, like she was in real estate I member, 303 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Latham Thomas: and it was in our community, was like only men 304 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,080 Latham Thomas: doing what she was doing. And so I watched her 305 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,400 Latham Thomas: kind of in spaces where she was also outnumbered, outpowered, 306 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,760 Latham Thomas: and it seemed that sometimes it wasn't safe, and so 307 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,840 Latham Thomas: I was nervous for her sometimes because I'm like, is 308 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,440 Latham Thomas: she okay? You know, But she took care of herself. 309 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,280 Latham Thomas: But I did learn that she didn't let anything really 310 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,880 Latham Thomas: stop her, right, So I kind of saw that growing up. 311 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: When we come back, we dive into Latham becoming a 312 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:46,040 Emily Tisch Sussman: mother and how that moment changed her forever. You became 313 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: pregnant with your son soon after graduating from Columbia with 314 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,639 Emily Tisch Sussman: a degree in visual arts and environmental science. So what 315 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: did you think you wanted to do with your career 316 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,159 Emily Tisch Sussman: at that point, Like, did it changed your vision of 317 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: what your career would be change when you got pregnant. 318 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,879 Latham Thomas: I love that you did research. 319 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:07,480 Latham Thomas: Yeah, so my son just recently graduated from college himself, 320 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,600 Latham Thomas: which has been so wonderful to have this full circle 321 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,360 Latham Thomas: moment of now I have an adult, right? 322 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,240 Latham Thomas: So I was in a relationship and had a great 323 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,080 Latham Thomas: I mean, we were both young, so it was something 324 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,560 Latham Thomas: that I would always say was unplanned, but not unwanted. 325 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,600 Latham Thomas: You know that the timing was what it was, and 326 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,200 Latham Thomas: if I were to do it again, I would still 327 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,639 Latham Thomas: do it the same. But if I had at the 328 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,320 Latham Thomas: time a choice, I probably would have not had it 329 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,960 Latham Thomas: be right after school. But I just I'm thankful. 330 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,840 Latham Thomas: Because I really feel like it helped me grow into 331 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,879 Latham Thomas: an adult. Like my son coming here also organized me 332 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,680 Latham Thomas: and reorganized every cell in my body but also reorganized 333 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,240 Latham Thomas: me into being an adult. And so, yeah, I was 334 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,480 Latham Thomas: with his father. We're really close friends now. I think 335 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,480 Latham Thomas: at the time as children, we were just you know, 336 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,840 Latham Thomas: it was like being with a stranger that was figuring out. 337 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,600 Latham Thomas: We were literally strangers really, I mean, we knew each other, 338 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,200 Latham Thomas: but not well enough to decide to embark on this 339 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Latham Thomas: journey together. And we talk about it all the time, 340 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,439 Latham Thomas: like we basically didn't know each other really and we 341 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,600 Latham Thomas: just said, yeah, let's do this. And I'm like, yeah, 342 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,520 Latham Thomas: that was wild, but only young people do things like that, right, 343 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,000 Latham Thomas: And our parents had things to say, but we went 344 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,880 Latham Thomas: forth because we knew something inside. We knew that there 345 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,879 Latham Thomas: was something about us coming together that was important, and 346 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,080 Latham Thomas: we knew that this child was supposed to be here, 347 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,359 Latham Thomas: like he chose to come through us, and we just 348 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,000 Latham Thomas: sort of were in a posture of acceptance of that. 349 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,959 Emily Tisch Sussman: Latham called on her roots and what she learned from 350 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,679 Emily Tisch Sussman: her mother and leaned into this personal moment, letting it 351 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:00,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: guide her. After the break, we dive into how this deeply personal time in her life led her to her biggest pivot and the creation of Mamma Glow. Stay Tuned. 352 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,080 Latham Thomas: And so career wise, I hadn't even oriented around what 353 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:35,320 Latham Thomas: I would do. I knew that I would start. Well, 354 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,840 Latham Thomas: I guess I should say this. I was working as 355 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,479 Latham Thomas: a contractor right like doing the work teaching, and so 356 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,879 Latham Thomas: I used sort of like my arts background with my 357 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,640 Latham Thomas: science background to merge curriculum development, which I did for 358 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,320 Latham Thomas: the Brooklyn Center for the Urban Environment and the audubonn 359 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,160 Latham Thomas: Center at the time. And I worked for the City 360 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,840 Latham Thomas: of New York to kind of bring the outdoors indoors 361 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,520 Latham Thomas: for students that were in public schools. But where it 362 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,640 Latham Thomas: shifted for me was when I became pregnant with Filano 363 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:14,840 Latham Thomas: and I felt this, this sort of surface was surfacing 364 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,159 Latham Thomas: for me. Was this knowing and this calling to step 365 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:26,680 Latham Thomas: into another area of learning but also of leadership and 366 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,040 Latham Thomas: a career path that I didn't know existed for me. 367 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,239 Latham Thomas: And it was a calling back to my childhood and 368 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,359 Latham Thomas: the times where I was stuffing cabbage patch dolls under 369 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,320 Latham Thomas: my shirt and me and my cousin were pretending to 370 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,719 Latham Thomas: deliver each other's babies. It was a calling back to, 371 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,199 Latham Thomas: you know, my first moment, to seeing my sister, you know, 372 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:54,760 Latham Thomas: upon arrival. It was also this kind of awakening that 373 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,840 Latham Thomas: I was feeling as I was, you know, cultivating new 374 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:02,639 Latham Thomas: life that was growing within me, and I knew that 375 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,960 Latham Thomas: I had to do something differently, and coming from a 376 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,880 Latham Thomas: background of problem solving and like looking at a mom 377 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,719 Latham Thomas: who was like that was what she did was problem 378 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,040 Latham Thomas: solving and project management, right, So I was keen on 379 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,800 Latham Thomas: finding a solution to what I was seeing as a 380 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,160 Latham Thomas: lack of cohesive information. In the landscape of birthing. 381 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,359 Latham Thomas: But once I started to kind of get more be 382 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,479 Latham Thomas: called back into the birth of it all, into the 383 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,080 Latham Thomas: life sciences that was on the sort of reproductive health 384 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,359 Latham Thomas: side of things. That's where everything started to stir and 385 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Latham Thomas: also come together for me, right, And it was really 386 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,639 Latham Thomas: the rudiments. It was really the building blocks and also 387 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,879 Latham Thomas: the you know, me thinking it all through and like 388 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,919 Latham Thomas: planning and developing like a roadmap for what could be 389 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,440 Latham Thomas: a company later, right, because it couldn't happen in the beginning. 390 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,119 Latham Thomas: And when Falaen was very small, it was like really 391 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,879 Latham Thomas: me just kind of mapping out and I'm really. Like visual, so I'd have like little float charts. 392 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,399 Latham Thomas: And notes and you know, journaling, and I'd write everything 393 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,879 Latham Thomas: out and that's how I was doing it, and then 394 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,960 Latham Thomas: I started with everything being really small. I just started, 395 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,119 Latham Thomas: you know, like little groups that would meet in my 396 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,600 Latham Thomas: living room, and then from there like kind of people 397 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,719 Latham Thomas: like oh, recommending me, and I did this doula fellowship, 398 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,720 Latham Thomas: and like all these things kind of happened to kind 399 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:24,720 Latham Thomas: of create like a little what do you call like 400 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,760 Latham Thomas: a foundation a foundation, and that was helpful right for 401 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,200 Latham Thomas: me to kind of then expand this work. But certainly 402 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,520 Latham Thomas: I did not know coming out of school. I had 403 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,200 Latham Thomas: no idea what I was going to do. I definitely, 404 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,240 Latham Thomas: if I could look back, I absolutely did not have 405 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,800 Latham Thomas: this as a career trajectory on my Bengo card, I 406 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,040 Latham Thomas: would have. It makes sense to me because I think about, like, 407 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,680 Latham Thomas: you know, the constellation of these breadcrumbs in my life. 408 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,080 Latham Thomas: It makes sense, but I wouldn't have understood it. If 409 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,679 Latham Thomas: I go back to myself being a child, I wouldn't 410 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,119 Latham Thomas: have seen this, right, So that's really what it is. 411 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,280 Latham Thomas: And I think the other thing too is, you know, 412 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,359 Latham Thomas: raising a child very similarly to when you decide to 413 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,840 Latham Thomas: launch a business, there is a lot of fear, a 414 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,480 Latham Thomas: lot of anxiety around whether or not you can do it, 415 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,479 Latham Thomas: or if you can do it well, you have to 416 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,440 Latham Thomas: build up courage and faith and you actually have to 417 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,919 Latham Thomas: keep going. And so when you have a child, you 418 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,200 Latham Thomas: know that right you can't like it's like you don't 419 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,400 Latham Thomas: get to stop. You know, you can't cut anything off. 420 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,280 Latham Thomas: It's like they're there and they depend on you. And 421 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,920 Latham Thomas: for a business, it's quite similar in that you're nurturing 422 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,080 Latham Thomas: and cultivating and incubating something that you then deliver unto 423 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,600 Latham Thomas: the world. And eventually, you know, there's times where you feel, 424 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,760 Latham Thomas: oh my gosh, like I can't today, you know, or 425 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,920 Latham Thomas: I'm like exhausted or I'm over this or whatever it 426 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,600 Latham Thomas: might be, and you can't away. And the people who 427 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,520 Latham Thomas: are successfully keep going. And so that's what I did. 428 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,760 Latham Thomas: I did a lot of research, I met different practitioners, 429 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,359 Latham Thomas: I explore products and services, and the kind of what 430 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,640 Latham Thomas: I came up with become the Rudiments of Mama Glow, 431 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,800 Latham Thomas: which is my first book in twenty twelve that came out. 432 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,080 Latham Thomas: But also it would kind of help flesh what I 433 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,560 Latham Thomas: understood to be the real needs for people who were 434 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,240 Latham Thomas: like me. And so I built this kind of holistic 435 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,639 Latham Thomas: framework around this birthing process that I desired and that 436 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,560 Latham Thomas: I hoped to be able to facilitate for others. And that would become Mama Glow. 437 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,840 Latham Thomas: Hi, I'm Latham Thomas, founder of Mama Glow, and today 438 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,200 Latham Thomas: we're going to get into our Yoga flow practice. 439 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,760 Latham Thomas: What those major life events are. We always have someone 440 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,320 Latham Thomas: who's holding our hand and guiding us, and so birth 441 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,000 Latham Thomas: is no different. 442 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,639 Latham Thomas: The doula is there to like do all the emotional stuff. 443 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,800 Latham Thomas: What's beautiful is that you see people that they're most 444 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,919 Latham Thomas: vulnerable but also their most powerful. 445 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: It does have children. The founder of Mama Go lay them Thomas, shout out to you. You've done something very very special. 446 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 4: Today is a very special day because I am going 447 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 4: to share the mic with an amazing female wellness warrior 448 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 4: whom I admire. She is the founder of Mama Glow. Her handle is at Mama glow. 449 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,960 Emily Tisch Sussman: I really want to just focus in on this point 450 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: that you've made about whatever success looks like to you, 451 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: like however you are winning because it can mean so 452 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,840 Emily Tisch Sussman: many different things to different people, and it can mean 453 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: different things at different points in your life. When people here, 454 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,720 Emily Tisch Sussman: especially when they think about starting a business, for it 455 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: to be successful, they think, oh, scale, right, like profitable, 456 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:50,160 Emily Tisch Sussman: big scale, But maybe that's not what success means to you. 457 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: You could be in a situation where you say, well, 458 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: actually I don't want scale because I get when I run a business, 459 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: Now I'm a business person, and so now I'm running 460 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: a business, and it takes you out of the individual work, 461 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: you know. I talk to a lot of women who 462 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: are going in and out of different careers and thinking 463 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,800 Emily Tisch Sussman: about pivoting, and this piece about what scale means and 464 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: what winning means to them goes back and forth all 465 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: the time, Like, if you're small, you want to be big. 466 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,280 Emily Tisch Sussman: If you're big, you want to be more connected to 467 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: the work. And it really just depends on I feel 468 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,240 Emily Tisch Sussman: like where you are in your life. 469 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,720 Latham Thomas: That's, first of all, so true, and thank you for bringing this in. 470 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,960 Latham Thomas: I think that a lot of our orientation around success 471 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:34,359 Latham Thomas: has been driven by male standards, and particularly those of 472 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520 Latham Thomas: male work patterns. Right, And so if we think about 473 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,479 Latham Thomas: like the ways in which we've had to navigate professional space, 474 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,600 Latham Thomas: all the spaces that we enter into have been created 475 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Latham Thomas: for and by men, and so also the metrics have 476 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,280 Latham Thomas: been as well. So metrics for success are also based 477 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,239 Latham Thomas: on how men can perform in these environments that are 478 00:28:54,280 --> 00:29:00,320 Latham Thomas: designed to weave people out and deplete people, and the 479 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,960 Latham Thomas: people who can get through this gauntlet right in corporate 480 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,080 Latham Thomas: life succeed. And so women who are in these positions 481 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,120 Latham Thomas: are isolated, but also have sacrificed a lot and are 482 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,840 Latham Thomas: like almost sometimes shells of themselves because of what they've 483 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,160 Latham Thomas: had to supplicate to like actually and give up to 484 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:20,240 Latham Thomas: be in those positions. Right. And so when we're talking about like also. 485 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,240 Latham Thomas: You know, our work and you know, being entrepreneurs and 486 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,160 Latham Thomas: leaders and business and so forth, there is a conversation 487 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,800 Latham Thomas: to be had always about what what am I giving over, 488 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,360 Latham Thomas: what am I giving up? And what am I sort 489 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,880 Latham Thomas: of expanding or receiving like in this process or this 490 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,280 Latham Thomas: transaction or whatever it's going to look like. Because I 491 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,480 Latham Thomas: think it's really important to understand also that there's ways 492 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,480 Latham Thomas: that you can scale that are sustainable and that the 493 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,560 Latham Thomas: models that currently exist are not real. And so when 494 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:05,680 Latham Thomas: people a cash infusion into a business for the purposes 495 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,400 Latham Thomas: of displacing the market, funneling in like a product or 496 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,480 Latham Thomas: service at a very low rate so that people start 497 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,480 Latham Thomas: to now like it or use it whatever, then to 498 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,560 Latham Thomas: you know, raise the prices later and then to have 499 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,239 Latham Thomas: to like you know, change the actual core right of 500 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,240 Latham Thomas: like your offerings or whatever it might be to accommodate investors. This is not real. 501 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,000 Latham Thomas: This is not real. 502 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,520 Latham Thomas: This is not actually This is like a pretend scenario 503 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,240 Latham Thomas: that's inside a petri dish right, and the performance is 504 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:45,560 Latham Thomas: based on your ability within that sort of mechanism to 505 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:51,720 Latham Thomas: outperform competitors through sales. But like, it's not real. And 506 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,440 Latham Thomas: so it's like, if you don't have any revenues, you 507 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,600 Latham Thomas: don't have a business. Like so I think that, you know, 508 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,760 Latham Thomas: the idea of I'm going to take money and then 509 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,280 Latham Thomas: answer to people and then be under the pressure of 510 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,800 Latham Thomas: having to perform and do things that are like not 511 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,240 Latham Thomas: aligned with my values. It's something people have to really 512 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,920 Latham Thomas: think about because that's what you're doing. When you take money, 513 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:19,000 Latham Thomas: it costs you. It's not just expensive in terms of 514 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,640 Latham Thomas: what you have to give up. It's expensive for what 515 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,239 Latham Thomas: you have to give over, right and because giving up 516 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,840 Latham Thomas: is you know, more like, okay, some of my power 517 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,680 Latham Thomas: as it relates to the business, giving over is part 518 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,280 Latham Thomas: of who you are. I have to give over parts 519 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,680 Latham Thomas: of who I am to like steal be inside this business. 520 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,720 Latham Thomas: And then you see so many people leave right once 521 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,320 Latham Thomas: they do it, and they're like, I can't do this. 522 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,479 Latham Thomas: I can't answer to people I can't answer to like 523 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,080 Latham Thomas: a you know, a Stanford MBA that's like twenty years 524 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,160 Latham Thomas: old that's going to come run my business and knows 525 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,040 Latham Thomas: nothing about what I do. 526 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040 Latham Thomas: That is what the model is. It's disruptive, but it's 527 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,360 Latham Thomas: also it's like it's not real. And so I don't 528 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:00,200 Latham Thomas: mean that people shouldn't take money. I do think people 529 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840 Latham Thomas: should do what works for them. But the best time 530 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,719 Latham Thomas: to take it is when you don't need it. The 531 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,960 Latham Thomas: best time is like when you're really in a good 532 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,600 Latham Thomas: position where it's expensive for them and it's not for you, 533 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,520 Latham Thomas: and you're in a very powerful position to determine how 534 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,680 Latham Thomas: you're going to use that money and also what it 535 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,880 Latham Thomas: means and how much you'll take because you don't have 536 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,719 Latham Thomas: to take a lot. Sometimes it's just like you might 537 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:23,800 Latham Thomas: need a little bit of cash to get something done 538 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,120 Latham Thomas: that might be alone, it might be better, right, There's 539 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,200 Latham Thomas: all kinds of ways to think through how to do it. 540 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,120 Latham Thomas: And I believe in designing a business that if I mean, 541 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,640 Latham Thomas: we've never taken money, right, so for us, it's like 542 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,920 Latham Thomas: designing a business that can actually exist in space through 543 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,280 Latham Thomas: our contracts and partnerships and things that we develop that 544 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,719 Latham Thomas: allows us to take care of our staff right, and 545 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,680 Latham Thomas: so you know, these are things we have to think about. Right. 546 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,040 Latham Thomas: I could have data Solopreneur Dulah that would have been fine, 547 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,000 Latham Thomas: but instead we developed a program and trained over three 548 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,680 Latham Thomas: thousand doulahs globally so they can go do the work right. 549 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,640 Latham Thomas: And now we're in Brown University where I teach students there. 550 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,400 Latham Thomas: And now we're you know, in CBS Health at now 551 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,000 Latham Thomas: where we teach nurses there, and you know, we do 552 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,240 Latham Thomas: all kinds of program development because I see that as 553 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,680 Latham Thomas: at the core of what I'm supposed to be doing 554 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,640 Latham Thomas: right is knowledge sharing and bridging healthcare gaps with what 555 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,560 Latham Thomas: we know to be the future leading you know, in 556 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,280 Latham Thomas: this space. And I can't do it as an individual 557 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,960 Latham Thomas: if I'm attending births and like impacting one person or 558 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,480 Latham Thomas: their community, I can do it from this space, right, 559 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,760 Latham Thomas: and it can be from an institutional level. And so 560 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,280 Latham Thomas: for me, that's what's important now. At one point, it 561 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,320 Latham Thomas: was really important to be one on one right, and 562 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,000 Latham Thomas: then another call came, which was beyond serve. Like the 563 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,480 Latham Thomas: first call was like to me via service as a doula, right. 564 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,560 Latham Thomas: The second one was for me to teach, and I 565 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,120 Latham Thomas: answered that call, and the third one was for me 566 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,120 Latham Thomas: to lead, and that was really about, like, you know, 567 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,800 Latham Thomas: thinking about how we change systems. And so I believe 568 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,840 Latham Thomas: that the most important thing to do is listen for 569 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,400 Latham Thomas: the call, but also know that it changes, like that 570 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,960 Latham Thomas: your journey, even if your path and the commitment that 571 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Latham Thomas: you have and the work that you do at its 572 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:21,080 Latham Thomas: core maybe not change, but the actual delivery of like 573 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,239 Latham Thomas: what you're supposed to be doing, how you're showing up 574 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,560 Latham Thomas: the workflow might change. That it has changed for me, 575 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,200 Latham Thomas: like it's changed from being hands on with like a 576 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,319 Latham Thomas: family or couple, to then in the classroom to then 577 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,120 Latham Thomas: in you know, institutional settings making decisions and hopefully benefiting 578 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,080 Latham Thomas: our broader community you know of women and birthing individuals. 579 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,479 Emily Tisch Sussman: Is there something it could be something we talked about 580 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,440 Emily Tisch Sussman: or something different that something that at one point you 581 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,360 Emily Tisch Sussman: saw as a real low point for you, but now 582 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: you see as having really launched you into the success 583 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:53,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: you are today. 584 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,520 Latham Thomas: I mean, I would say there's always highs and lows 585 00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:01,560 Latham Thomas: right in this journey, and it is very isolating doing 586 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,920 Latham Thomas: work as an entrepreneur, as a parent. 587 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,759 Latham Thomas: At the same time, I wouldn't say that there was a particular low point, but 588 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,200 Latham Thomas: what I would say is that what I could say 589 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,360 Latham Thomas: is that there's like ebbs right and flows where some 590 00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,600 Latham Thomas: days you're like, oh, everything's really great, and then some 591 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,800 Latham Thomas: days where you're you know not. What I would say 592 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,400 Latham Thomas: that is important and that is sustaining is like really 593 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,480 Latham Thomas: celebrating your wins and they don't have to be some crazy, 594 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,160 Latham Thomas: like over the top like you know, but just little 595 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,440 Latham Thomas: things like tiny victories. I think help us so that 596 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,839 Latham Thomas: when we are having those low moments where we do 597 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,319 Latham Thomas: feel like maybe we're undersupported or we're just struggling, we're 598 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,480 Latham Thomas: reminded of our greatness and also of the impact of 599 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,880 Latham Thomas: the work. And one of the ways that I have 600 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,320 Latham Thomas: done that is like through a little group of friends, 601 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,560 Latham Thomas: right that we just kind of connect with each other 602 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,880 Latham Thomas: and when something happens that's cool that we may not 603 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,839 Latham Thomas: necessarily announce to the world. We share there and it's 604 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,960 Latham Thomas: like the biggest cheerleading squad. Like the way that these 605 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,719 Latham Thomas: women celebrate and just love on each other is so 606 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,239 Latham Thomas: fueling and especially for me who comes from a background 607 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,719 Latham Thomas: in a childhood where like you weren't praised for succeeding. 608 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,839 Latham Thomas: It was expected, but there was no praise. And so 609 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,719 Latham Thomas: I come into adulthood not celebrating things that are really 610 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:40,560 Latham Thomas: important to celebrate. And so I'm now embracing that. And 611 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,760 Latham Thomas: so I would say instead of like in a sense, 612 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,400 Latham Thomas: like you know, you could have these moments that are 613 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,040 Latham Thomas: really high and not even realize are happening because you're 614 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,240 Latham Thomas: so focused On the next thing. 615 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,120 Latham Thomas: And that happens a lot here, Like, you know, we're 616 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,720 Latham Thomas: so busy sometimes that like I'm like, this thing happened, 617 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:58,279 Latham Thomas: it was amazing. Okay, on to the next, you know, 618 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,279 Latham Thomas: And so people, even staff, doesn't get an opportunity to 619 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,319 Latham Thomas: like really live into the success and of the things 620 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,960 Latham Thomas: because we're moving so fast. But I definitely would say 621 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,040 Latham Thomas: that that's how I kind of handle the joys and 622 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,319 Latham Thomas: it's also how I handle the hardship. And so that 623 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,640 Latham Thomas: same kind of group text area is like if I'm 624 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,719 Latham Thomas: having a rough day or something just is coming up 625 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,600 Latham Thomas: and I'm like struggling with I go into that and 626 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,040 Latham Thomas: I want to share that. You know, for a lot 627 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,480 Latham Thomas: of us, we think that, oh, I don't want to 628 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,520 Latham Thomas: burden my friends or I don't want and I talk 629 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,200 Latham Thomas: to people all the time about this, and I'm like, 630 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:39,440 Latham Thomas: you know, we're actually primed, like literally primed to connect 631 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,040 Latham Thomas: in this way. We're prime to seek supportive networks, especially 632 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:48,400 Latham Thomas: when we're in times of discomfort or stress. Like we 633 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,320 Latham Thomas: literally have built in our biology this desire to connect 634 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,000 Latham Thomas: with people who will support us through the most challenging times. 635 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,600 Latham Thomas: And so I want to bring that to this conversation 636 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,000 Latham Thomas: because I think it's so important to develop that connection 637 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,759 Latham Thomas: to people and to have that village so that when 638 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,400 Latham Thomas: these hardships come, as you're building something, you have somewhere 639 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,040 Latham Thomas: to pour Into and people who can pour into you. Because it's so needed. 640 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,239 Latham Thomas: And I know that the times we're living in now 641 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,239 Latham Thomas: require community coalition building. It requires us to show up 642 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,759 Latham Thomas: so much differently than we did before for our survival. 643 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,600 Latham Thomas: And for those of us who are committed to building 644 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,680 Latham Thomas: business and who are making shifts and pivots and like 645 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:36,840 Latham Thomas: how you're expressing yourselves and like what your businesses I 646 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,560 Latham Thomas: look like, and even if you're just at a different 647 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,319 Latham Thomas: life stage, because a lot of us are moving through 648 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,719 Latham Thomas: things happening in our actual lives that then impact the 649 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,200 Latham Thomas: business trajectory. You need a container of safety for that, 650 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,799 Latham Thomas: and I think therapy is a great container, but friendship 651 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,080 Latham Thomas: is so important and having that space and so that's 652 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,200 Latham Thomas: how I kind of get through when I have those moments. 653 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:02,080 Latham Thomas: But I would definitely say those moments happen. It's not 654 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,440 Latham Thomas: just like there's one. It's like you have these waves 655 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,359 Latham Thomas: and there's hardship when you're building something like things come 656 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,279 Latham Thomas: up and you just have to have the fortitude but 657 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,000 Latham Thomas: also those resources to kind of get yourself through. 658 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,359 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thank you so much, Latham, Thank you for joining us. 659 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,480 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thank you for having me. Appreciate you. 660 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: Latham is continuing to grow Mama Glow and has personally 661 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: worked with the likes of Anne Hathaway, Alicia Keys, and 662 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: Gabrielle Union. To stay up to date with Latham, be 663 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,880 Emily Tisch Sussman: sure to follow her on Instagram at Glow Maven. 664 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,239 Emily Tisch Sussman: Thanks for listening to this episode of she Pivots. I 665 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,680 Emily Tisch Sussman: hope you enjoyed it and if you did, leave us 666 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:45,760 Emily Tisch Sussman: a rating and tell your friends about us. To learn 667 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,080 Emily Tisch Sussman: more about our guests, follow us on Instagram at she 668 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,600 Emily Tisch Sussman: Pivots the podcast, or sign up for our newsletter where 669 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,719 Emily Tisch Sussman: you can get exclusive behind the scenes content. On our 670 00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:02,560 Emily Tisch Sussman: website at she Pivots the podcast dot com. This episode 671 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,120 Emily Tisch Sussman: was produced and edited by Emily Etta Volosek, with sound 672 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,920 Emily Tisch Sussman: editing and mixing from Nina Pollock. Audio production and social 673 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,320 Emily Tisch Sussman: media by Hannah Cousins, research by Christine Dickinson, and logistics 674 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,400 Emily Tisch Sussman: and planning by Emma Stopek and Kendall Krupkin. She Pivots 675 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,520 Emily Tisch Sussman: is proud to be a part of the iHeart podcast Network. 676 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 4: I endorse she pivots