WEBVTT - 3: Welcome to the Family 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:14.720 Ya novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:24.840 content that some listeners might find distressing. Previously, on Deliver 0:00:25.000 --> 0:00:29.080 Us from Herbal, Hervil thought that if he got rid 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:31.720 of Joel, he could just move in and take leadership 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:37.600 with Joel's people. Well, it didn't work, that's the problem. 0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.760 After he had murdered Joel, it was always the fear 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:43.879 of them coming an attack in our town. We are 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:51.600 driving toward Los Molinas. They threw an attack. The attack 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:57.320 mostop the attacks were kids went and looked through the 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.520 window and at the moment he opened the cord and 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.920 he got shut into head in them. He killed my dad. 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.640 He should paid for it. And it doesn't matter if 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:12.360 he became possess or obsessed with evil spirit. He doesn't 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.760 change the fact that for me, Herbal was a beautiful soul. 0:01:16.720 --> 0:01:33.600 I still love Herbal. Oh, yes, a lot deliberous. The 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.880 host of the following program is solely responsible for the 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:41.399 program's content. Once for a prophet name Ross, He's had 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:45.480 to roll wise for just one hoss religion he knows, 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.400 including UFOs, and in all his houses he's the boss. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.400 Call him please, He's got the keys. Every Friday from 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:56.760 noon to one. He's the mighty, He's the strong, He's 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:04.400 the one. Ross Labara, noon to one Friday. Around the 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:08.040 same time as Irvil LeBaron was forming a cult, having 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.640 his own brother killed and attacking the town of Los 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:15.720 Milinos across the border in America, another LeBaron voice was 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:20.000 making waves with his own radio show, older brother to 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:27.040 Irville and Joel. Ross LeBaron opinionated, controversial, but not exactly 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:31.440 a smooth talker. Okay, this is Ross LeBaron, they home. 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:37.080 This will be the first program I done and operated 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:41.079 from the board. Although he certainly didn't lack in self confidence. 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:47.160 I know more about God, about the priesthood, about the prophecies, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.400 about the future and how it operates than any man on. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:55.240 And just like so many talk show hoss and podcasters today, 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.440 Ross was into some pretty out their ideas out when 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.600 Adam came here and when he lived in the Garden 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:06.639 of Eden, he had spaceships. You heard that right, spaceships 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.080 to take the faithful to Heaven. Space Ships were called 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:13.440 Chair of Them and the Flaming Sword. Ross LeBaron had 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:17.000 already started building these spaceships out in the Chihuahua Desert. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.920 This was back when he lived in colonial LeBaron in 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.080 the fifties, but by the sixties he left that Mexican 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.800 town and moved his spaceship Operation I guess you could 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.160 call it to Utah. And while Joel and Herville were 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.000 starting out with those pamphlets to spread the message of 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:36.000 their dream of Zion, Ross saw the power of radio, 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.600 initially as a guest on other talk shows and then 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.240 with a program of his very own to connect him 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:48.320 with the masses. My therapy on miss program is too full, stale, 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:52.400 Martin is um like Christ will build the Law of Moses. 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.120 There is actually a lot I recognize when I or 0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:03.160 Ross le Baron on the radio, all his references to 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.800 doctrine and covenants. I grew up with these terms too, 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:12.600 So listening in on the scratchy radio clips mixing mainstream 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:16.320 Mormon stuff with talk of rockets to outer space, it's 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:19.400 kind of funny. Funny. You're still when you get to 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:24.320 the show's calling segment, where Ross is often confronted by confused, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:32.760 sometimes even angry listeners. Hello, uh am, I aunt, this 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:39.720 is John Salas. That's very good. You're good, go ahead, Yeah, 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:43.640 I just wanted to that. They're you know, makes me suggesting, 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.160 could you kind of you know, seems to could change 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.960 your flat with the behind because when you come on 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:56.760 it than you. But as funny as he sometimes sounds, 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.600 it would be foolish to laugh too hard at Ross 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.360 labar Arn, to not take him and his kind seriously, 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:07.480 because Ross le Baron and the shows he would make 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.880 guest appearances on were a kind of lightning rod for 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:17.000 certain kinds of listeners, often male, usually feeling isolated. They 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.080 can't understand why they don't have it better in life. 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:26.080 It's an audience hundreds of podcasters and YouTubers, cable news hosts, 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:32.120 and politicians cater to today this distinctive cocktail of anger 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:39.720 and confusion seething just below the surface, and a sort 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:45.040 of quiet desperation to believe in something where you're at 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:49.119 the center, where you have value and a role to play. 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.200 Among the listeners to Ross le Baron in the nineteen 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:04.120 sixties was a man named Lloyd Sullivan. He lived in Vincennes, Indiana. 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.840 In the photos I've seen of him, he's wearing thick 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.320 coke bottle glasses, dark hair, and a sort of shell 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:15.760 act pompadour. Lloyd Sullivan was of River people's stock, which 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.520 means his family was one of many that lived in 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.800 shanty boats up and down the Mississippi or Ohio River 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:26.320 Valley after the Great Depression of the nineteen thirties, drifting 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.920 looking for work on paper. Lloyd didn't have much going 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:36.800 for him, not that educated, not too smart, orphaned as 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.640 a child. Now in his thirties and divorced with a 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.840 couple of kids, had a grown son named Don Sullivan, 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.400 who followed him like a shadow. Lloyd Sullivan started out 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.080 in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.279 the church I grew up in, but he started to 0:06:54.320 --> 0:07:00.760 find that mainstream Mormon doctrine was too well mainstream, too dull, 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:04.960 so he moved on, initially to a far right group 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:08.520 called the John Birch Society, like a precursor to Q 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:13.720 and On Proud Boys, oath Keepers, et cetera. The society 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.440 believed their race made them part of the Chosen Few, 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.880 an army of American patriots rooting out the Commies and 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:29.200 restoring the US to its white Christian foundations. That depressingly 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:34.560 familiar rhetoric that echoes through much of today's America. Anyway, 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.320 Lloyd Sullivan got bored of that too, and so he 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:42.520 went back to Mormonism, but this time to the fundamentalist groups, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.360 which by the late nineteen sixties had sprung up across 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:51.480 the American Southwest like weeds. But one stood out to Lloyd, 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:55.360 the one he heard about on the radio. Solaine Halt 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.400 and the blind will gather with me, and the children 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.240 of the kings will be guessed out. The prophecy says, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.400 the streets of saw Lake wool running blood after they've 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:08.120 heard my message. Wait a minute, I imagine I'm thinking, 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.800 his ears pricking up while tooling around under a hood 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:17.560 in his garage. This isn't dull. They'll litter be wiped 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:24.920 off as the city literally. This is how Lloyd Sullivan 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:28.960 was pulled into the La Baron orbit. He heard ross 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.960 LeBaron in the sixties as a guest on an ultra 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:37.080 conservative radio show in Utah, and Ross LeBaron set him 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:39.520 on a path that would lead him, in just a 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:44.240 few years, right to the heart of Hervil's expanding crime empire. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.280 His story is just one example of what that journey 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.560 could look like, but it's similar to so many who 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.360 ended up killing in the name of Hervil. LeBaron, raised 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.720 in the mainstream Mormon Church, then taken in by the 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.680 amis of a return to an old school style of Mormonism, 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.839 and then sucked in further by the draw of an 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:13.520 uncompromising leader. Lloyd and his shadow, Don Sullivan, moved down 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.640 to colonial LeBaron in seventy two. When Lloyd met Irva 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.880 le Baron, it didn't take long four days. In fact, 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:27.160 after arguing theology and the finer points of fundamentalist Mormon doctrine, 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:33.000 Lloyd realized he'd been wrong again. Ross wasn't the one 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:39.840 mighty and strong Herville was. A month later, Joel is dead. 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:45.240 Two years after that, Lloyd and Don Sullivan would be 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:50.880 instrumental in the massacre at Los Milinos. In fact, for 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.640 a while, Lloyd and Don Sullivan would become Irvill LeBaron's 0:09:54.960 --> 0:10:00.440 most enthusiastic soldiers. What Herba was building with his cruits 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:04.000 he may have called a church, but it had quickly 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:09.160 morphed into something else. A crime family intermarried, so they 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:16.040 became intertwined with Merville's own branch of the Labarns family, 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:23.800 members whose ultimate loyalty would be to him. Within a generation, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:29.200 his family tree would mushroom splinter multiply into what he 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:34.520 saw as the beginnings of a kingdom, something altogether different 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:38.280 than what had begun in colonial LeBaron. God's kingdom as 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:41.840 a kind of mafia, now bound to each other not 0:10:42.000 --> 0:10:46.679 just by faith, but by blood, shaped by a theology 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:51.280 rooted mostly in vengeance. And for those who resisted, who 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:55.720 refused to bend the knee, well, they would face the 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.080 same consequences as Joel and the town of Los Milinos. 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:04.800 They would fill the full force of God's wrath. Delivered 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:18.960 by Hervil LeBaron's colt from the Team's at novel and 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.959 I Heart Radio. This is deliver us from Herbal I'm 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:41.560 jesse Hyde, Chapter three, Welcome to the Family. Dorothy Solomon 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.240 already was just six years old in nineteen when the 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:50.000 two men unexpectedly showed up at her Utah home. They 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:55.080 came in an old, beat up truck. They pulled into 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:59.199 our driveway. They drove too fast, is screeched to a stop. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.959 The Labarns had arrived unannounced Merville with an older brother, 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:09.720 then the one who called himself the Elephant Strangler. This 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.360 was back when Rville was still signing up followers for 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.480 Joel's church and the La Barren brothers were on a 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.360 recruitment drive. We ran into hiding and I watched them 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:23.040 get out of the truck and slammed the doors and 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:30.000 yell anybody home. Dorothy's father was a man named Rulin Alred. 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.800 Like the la Barons, he was a polygamist. He had 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:39.560 seven wives and forty eight children, but just one legal wife, Myrtle. 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:44.240 Having just one legal wife is how polygamas avoided prosecution 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:49.200 still do. And it was my father's legal wife, Myrtle, 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.760 who met them and told them that Rulin wasn't there, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.200 that they should go away and come back later, and 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.800 they said they weren't going to leave until they could 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:04.320 speak to him. The two La Baron brothers decided to 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:07.800 demonstrate just how mighty and strong they really were, and 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.560 they started doing push ups in the driveway. That's when 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:18.840 they had the stone spitting contest. They were peculiar. Dorothy 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.280 watched as the two men strutted around in front of 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.400 the house like two little bantie roosters. They moved with 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:31.360 a kind of redneck self assurance. They moved aggressively, not confidently, 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.800 but aggressively. That's why I associate it with redneck men. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.959 There was a very specific reason why the la Barons 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.920 were at Dorothy's house that day and why they wanted 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.600 to speak to Dr. Alred. He wasn't just the head 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.720 of a huge family, but the head of a sort 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:58.760 of growing organization too. Around the same time that Joel 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.000 and Herville were built holding their churches, there were a 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:07.320 few large polygamous factions that existed in America, like the Kingston's, 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.559 the Short Creek Group, and the Alreds. In a way, 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:14.840 they were kinds of organized crime families too, not killers 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.760 like Rvila Barn's offshoot or even violent, but they all 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:25.080 lived in the underground, in the shadows. Their crime was polygamy, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:29.480 which remember, was illegal. So these families they all sort 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.640 of did business with each other or helped each other out. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:36.160 After all, if you believe in polygamy, it's not that 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.080 easy to find a wife. And so these families would 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:43.000 visit each other, intermarry, and some of these families had 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:50.960 built empires, amassed fortunes. Hervill coveted. The Kingston's, for example, 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:54.520 had a catoranche in Nevada, a coal mine in central Utah. 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:58.520 Eventually they would have pawn shops, their own grocery store, 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:02.680 a casino and Cali fournia, and trailer parks in Las Vegas. 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.360 From pretty much the start of colonial LeBaron Rvill had 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.880 been trying to get rich too. It wasn't just his 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.920 Mara Lago style plans for Los Melinos. His cult would 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.600 attempt other less glamorous business ventures over the years, from 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:26.000 mushroom farms to washing machine repair businesses. And then, of 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:31.000 course there were their criminal enterprises, from welfare fraud to 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.320 stealing cars, which it turned out they were quite good at. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.840 Eventually they'd start stealing cars to order for clients in Mexico, 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.760 switched the plates and ship them south of the border. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.760 And yet, for all Rville's efforts to grow his empire, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.479 it paled in comparison to what the other large fundamentalist 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.040 communities were building. But Erville didn't want to emulate those 0:15:55.080 --> 0:16:00.400 other big fundamentalist organizations. He wanted to consume them money. 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:08.400 After all, as far as he was concerned, he was 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:13.240 the one, mighty and strong, and these other families they 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:18.200 all owed him tithing. The Kingston's, the people in Short Creek, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:25.480 the Allreds, especially the Alreds you see with them. It 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:30.120 was personal. Irville wanted what they had. He thought he 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:42.320 could get it, He thought he should get it. Shortly 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:45.080 before Dorothy was born, the all Reds had been one 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.760 of the first families settling in colonial a Baron. When 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.600 they arrived and they got down from the truck that 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.640 carried their belongings, they burst into tears because it was 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:01.720 a wasteland. There was a small garden, and otherwise it 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:07.000 was sage brush and rattlesnakes and blackwodow spiders and trunchs. 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.720 They might have been polygamist refugees, but they saw the 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:17.280 harsh reality of early life in colonial LeBaron. Less than 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.879 a year after they had got down from that truck, 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:24.959 the Alreds got back on it. They rejected the LeBaron 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.000 Zion took their chances living polygamy in the shadows back 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:34.359 in the US, and there they had prospered. In Utah, 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.119 ruling already established what would become one of the largest 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.879 Mormon fundamentalist sects to ever exist. Today, there's still one 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.560 of the biggest. If you've ever seen the TV show 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.520 Sister Wives, that family comes from the sect ruling started. 0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:54.240 And what's more, Rulin already did this without ever needing 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.760 to use those grandiose titles Irville or his brothers did. 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.840 He never claimed to be a prophet. There are people 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.160 who hold him as a prophet, but I heard him 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:09.840 say on different occasions that he was not a replacement 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:14.680 for the leader. And there are many fundamentalists who have 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:24.480 commandeered lives, and commandeered brides, child brides, and done violence 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:28.679 to people, become tyrants over people in the name of 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.840 being the one mighty and strong. And I want it 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:39.480 clear that my father never aspired to that. Dorothy grew 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.560 up in a big gray house in the foothills of 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:46.119 a place in Utah called Bluff Bell. They had twenty 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:52.280 acres meadows and swamps and skiing hills, and it was 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:56.480 a beautiful place to grow up and all the playmates 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.800 you could ever want. Of course, with seven women broke 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.600 creating all at once. I had many, many siblings near 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:09.560 my age, and I loved them. The world Dorothy remembers 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.719 as a child in Utah was kind of the polar 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:17.679 opposite from the childhood that Stephanie Spencer endured. Stephanie, who 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:21.600 was regularly beaten and humiliated by her fundamentalist parents in 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:27.560 Colonia le Baron. Dorothy's childhood in Utah sounds pretty storybook, 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.640 devoid of the violence and fear. With so many kids around, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.359 it was hard for Dorothy to find time with her father. 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:38.480 I used to go out to the barns with him 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.760 in the morning, because that was time I could spend 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:45.960 just with him. Nobody else wanted to milk, and my 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:49.320 mother would indulge me. She'd put on my sweater and 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:54.119 wash my face and send me out smiling, and he 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.000 helped me milk the cow. And you know, that was 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:01.080 kind of a theme. I wanted to be like my father. 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:12.080 I wanted to have that much respect and power, respect power. 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.199 Merville wanted that, and Rulin had it, the kind of 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.520 effortless stature Hervill could only dream of, could only covet. 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:27.359 My father was a reluctant leader. He wasn't proselyting, he 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:33.399 wasn't trying to increase his numbers. He was simply trying 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.720 to protect those who believed that he was there leader. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:42.240 And he had a council of men advising him too. 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.199 He didn't try to lead by himself. Rulin was a 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:50.760 natural pathic doctor, a healer, a medicine man for the 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:56.040 new age, didn't do surgery, didn't prescribe medicine. It was 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:02.360 all natural homeopathic. He had a thriving actus, mostly fundamentalists 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:07.320 who avoided hospitals because hospitals asked too many personal questions. 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.520 That day, when Irville and Ben barged up to Dorothy's 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.320 home started doing push ups in the driveway, Rulin was 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:20.639 at his office. Rulin's wife, Myrtle, called him and said 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.200 the La Baron boys had showed up, and Rulin was alarmed. 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:28.240 My father came home from his office that day too, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.600 had them off because he was worried about the safety 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:35.359 of his family. He could sense there was a darkness around. 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.920 He wrote about it in his journals that he had 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:44.119 disagreements with Therville, who felt strongly that he should be 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.680 in charge of not only the mainstream Church of Latter 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:54.840 day Saints, but the United States government. Of course, when 0:21:54.920 --> 0:22:03.680 Joel was killed, then everybody's antennas sprang up. After Joel's 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.800 death in seventy two, Dorothy remembers her dad returning from Mexico, 0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:12.440 where he had attended the funeral in Colonial LeBaron. Arriving home, 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.679 he told the family what he had learned. It was 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.920 really true, Joel le Baron had been murdered, and it 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:28.960 was Joel's own brother, Herbal, who was responsible. It wasn't 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:32.560 long after that that the alred started to receive chilling threats. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:49.000 That's coming up after the break. About a month before 0:22:49.040 --> 0:22:52.760 Dervil's followers carried out the massacre and Los Milinos, Herville 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:55.879 met with a man in a diner in Salt Lake City. 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.560 It was November of seventy four. The man belonged to 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:04.480 the Kingston's, or as they called themselves, the Davis County Coop, 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:09.440 one of those large fundamentalist groups I mentioned earlier. Herville 0:23:09.480 --> 0:23:13.000 brag to him he was untouchable. You could try to 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:16.280 shoot him with a pistol, but the pistol wouldn't fire. 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:21.240 God protected him. Hervill also told him that within a 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.760 year he'd be the head of a separate nation which 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.560 would have power over the whole planet. To do that, 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:32.439 he had to cleanse the earth. He asked for a 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.280 meeting with the head of the Kingston Clan. The meeting 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:38.600 was set up and Rville told the Kingston's they owed 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:43.719 him tithing. In fact, all the fundamentalist groups did, the Kingston's, 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.160 the Alreds, the council of friends down his Short Creek. 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.160 He was the one mighty and strong, and he had 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.880 been for twelve years. For twelve years, he'd been asking 0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:00.679 for tything, and they hadn't given it, And so Herbal 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:05.000 gave them a deadline. They had until January one, nine, 0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:10.160 one year, basically to pay him a ten percent cut 0:24:10.400 --> 0:24:14.120 from all their businesses, the cattle ranch, the pawn shops, 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:18.080 the coal mine, or as he put it, there would 0:24:18.080 --> 0:24:24.600 be bloodshed. He'd burned their businesses down. Herval had come 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:27.080 as a man of God, but this felt more like 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:32.400 a mafia style shakedown, as they say in Mexico Plata Oploma, 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:38.200 silver or lead. Herville visited Short Creek and the Alreds 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:42.080 and gave them the same ultimatum, pay up or else. 0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:48.600 The man was done waiting around. My father actually had 0:24:48.800 --> 0:24:53.200 people come and try to protect him during these times 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:59.000 of threat. Dorothy Alred remembers the intimidation wasn't just escalating, 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:04.160 it was becau coming more direct. My mother came home 0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:09.639 one night and saw printed in footprints on the deep snow, 0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:17.679 we'll be back. This particular threat happened on December, a 0:25:17.720 --> 0:25:21.520 few days after the Los Milinos attack. Just as word 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:26.240 of the massacre had started to spread. Now across the border. 0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:29.840 Up in Utah, cars were seen prowling around the all 0:25:29.880 --> 0:25:33.919 Red compound. Rocks were thrown at their home, and then 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:39.280 someone cut the electricity the phone ring. You think you 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:44.600 were very secure, don't you. There was a string of threats, 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:49.720 pamphlets left on the windshield of his car with handwritten 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:54.440 threats affixed to them, Threats that if he didn't repent 0:25:55.320 --> 0:26:00.160 and follow the true prophet, he was going to die. 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.600 Up until the spring of seventy seven, these threats against 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:11.560 Rulin Allred had remained just that threats, no actual violence. 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:14.879 One reason for this might have been that Rville was 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:21.399 occupied with another target, his younger brother Virlin LeBaron, Virlin, 0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:24.440 who was still head of Colonial LeBaron and the Church 0:26:24.520 --> 0:26:28.320 of the Firstborn, the church Ervil had helped start with 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:33.080 his brother Joel. Since the Los Milinos massacre in seventy four, 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:37.040 when Rville had first tried and failed to have Virlin killed, 0:26:37.520 --> 0:26:41.600 Merville's hatred for him had only grown with a venom 0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:46.520 and passion that even startled some of Rvill's followers. Virlin 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:50.480 knew this, and from seventy four, he was living in hiding. 0:26:51.400 --> 0:26:56.160 Herville continued to hunt him through seventy six and into 0:26:56.200 --> 0:27:00.720 seventy seven. He attempted further hits, got cult members to 0:27:00.800 --> 0:27:04.080 dress in disguise and patrol the streets of Mexican towns 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:07.440 where he thought Virlin might be holed up. They had 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.600 orders to shoot to kill on site, but these missions 0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:17.840 had also ended in failure. By the spring of seventy seven, 0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:22.520 Hervil's more zealous followers like Lloyd Sullivan, We're getting impatient. 0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:28.359 Why wasn't this getting done? Lloyd wanted to know. Why 0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:32.359 weren't there businesses growing faster. Why weren't they able to 0:27:32.400 --> 0:27:36.920 take over these other fundamentalist clans to unite the entire 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:41.760 Mormon Church. Why wasn't their profit Hervill able to deliver. 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:52.400 On April, Herville called a military emergency meeting. He got 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:55.040 up and announced he had a plan to finally get 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:59.679 to Rlin. If they couldn't find him, they draw him 0:27:59.680 --> 0:28:03.160 out into the open. His plan was to use a funeral, 0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:08.200 the funeral of one of Rlin's close friends, someone who 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:15.640 had married two of Rlin's nieces. Ruling alread Rulin, then 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:19.640 Verlin hervill would take them both out one after the other. 0:28:21.000 --> 0:28:25.439 Then maybe people would finally take him seriously pay that 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:30.119 tithing he felt they owed. Rulin's assassination was going to 0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:33.240 be the spark that would start the fire. It would 0:28:33.240 --> 0:28:36.240 be carried out by one of Gerville's most trusted followers, 0:28:36.920 --> 0:28:42.120 from a bedrock family of his crime empire. This particular 0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:56.480 family were called the Chinnas. The city of East Layton, 0:28:56.840 --> 0:28:59.840 a little north of Salt Lake City, Utah, is surrounded 0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:03.880 by pasture and open land in the winter, snow capped mountains. 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:08.000 It's peaceful, but also kind of boring in that way. 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:16.040 Most suburbs are sleepy, well ordered, unremarkable, both figuratively and literally, 0:29:16.200 --> 0:29:19.040 more than a thousand miles away from the extremes of 0:29:19.080 --> 0:29:23.240 the Chihuahua Desert and colonial a Baron, but it used 0:29:23.280 --> 0:29:27.800 to share one key characteristic with that Mexican town. Almost 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:32.240 everyone who lived there was Mormon. This was the upbringing 0:29:32.400 --> 0:29:39.600 of Glenn shinaf All right, well, Glenn, First off, thank you. Um. 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:42.720 I'm sitting in Glenn's living room on a cold December morning. 0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:46.400 That dog a problem. He's got a couple of little 0:29:46.440 --> 0:29:48.440 dogs that he's putting in a kennel off in the 0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:52.160 kitchen to keep them from jumping up on me, not 0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:58.560 of me. Glenn seventy nine is wearing blue coveralls, sturdy 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:02.840 black boots, thick glasses, blue collars, like all the uncles 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:06.320 I grew up with who worked construction. There's a picture 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:08.640 of Jesus on the wall, like the one my grandpa 0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:11.960 had in his double wide trailer. It's all very familiar, 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.320 even Homie sitting with him, like we could be related. 0:30:15.840 --> 0:30:18.800 Although Glenn and I are a few generations apart. His 0:30:18.920 --> 0:30:22.880 upbringing was much more like mine than anything that happened 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:27.400 in colonial LeBaron. We're both products of the mainstream Mormon church. 0:30:28.120 --> 0:30:32.040 In both our families, religion was front and center. It 0:30:32.120 --> 0:30:35.720 was pretty well the only thing. My dad was worked 0:30:35.720 --> 0:30:39.360 out at the Hill Air Fource base. My mom was 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:44.240 very religious. We went to church, went to all the activities, 0:30:44.920 --> 0:30:50.000 family prayer, church, basketball games, campouts with the local congregation 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.800 up in the mountains Rockwellian. And then of course there 0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:58.480 were Glenn's siblings, Mark the musician. Mark was a really 0:30:58.520 --> 0:31:01.800 good piano player. Just bring a piano up and he 0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:05.520 could just make it, saying younger brother Victor, who was 0:31:05.600 --> 0:31:08.880 five years my junior. He was well built. I remember 0:31:09.120 --> 0:31:12.640 I couldn't pick him up, and he wasn't fat, he 0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:16.280 was just solid built little guy. His little sister, Lorna 0:31:16.600 --> 0:31:19.280 age wise, I was closest to her, but she was 0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.600 a pain in the but little sister to me. And 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:26.720