1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: fm to get started. 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 2: Thank you. 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 3: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space. 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 4: I'm talking about talking to your girlfriend, laying on the bed, 14 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 4: talking to your girlfriend and telling her what you've never 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 4: told her. I'm talking about telling your husband the reason 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 4: why you jump every time he touches you on the 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 4: back of your ear. That's what I'm talking about, because 18 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 4: those things don't go away if you don't deal with it. 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: Than today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration, 20 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 3: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments, 21 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 3: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 3: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also, 23 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 3: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe 24 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 3: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 3: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab. 26 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting 27 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: women like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Bussard, a 28 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: college professor and psychologist. 29 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 5: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 5: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please 31 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 5: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from 32 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 5: five roads to fake friends, and create a safe space 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 5: where black women can just be. 34 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 6: Hey, lady, it's Terry here from the Cultivating her Space podcast. 35 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 6: I'm hosting a free podcasting masterclass where I'm going to 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 6: teach you how to create your impactful podcast and how 37 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 6: you can generate multiple streams of income. You can visit 38 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 6: podcast with Terry dot com to register for free. I 39 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,360 Speaker 6: hope to see you there, lady. Today, we have a 40 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,959 Speaker 6: very special guest. We have a heavy topic, but a 41 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 6: very special guest that is going to gently walk us 42 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 6: through this topic. Katherine Barner is a grief and trauma expert, author, speaker, 43 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 6: sexual abuse advocate, and psychotherapist. She's passionate about helping women 44 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:44,080 Speaker 6: who suffer in silence live in a perfect peace. Catherine 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 6: wants women to know that they don't have to live 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 6: in the shadows of abuse. They don't have to remain 47 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 6: silent about their trauma for fear of not being believed. 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 6: She knows that healing is indeed possible and life can flourish. Katherine, 49 00:02:59,040 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 6: welcome to Cultivating. 50 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you, Thank you, ladies, Terry and doctor Dom. 51 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 4: I'm excited to be with you, guys. 52 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 2: This is this is gonna be good. 53 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 5: Yes, it is. We are so excited that you're here. 54 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: Yes, and we are looking forward to engaging in this important, 55 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: important conversation. And so our quote of the day. I 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: don't know who needs to hear this, but the adults 57 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: who are supposed to protect you. You weren't supposed to 58 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: protect yourself. It's not a child's job to take care 59 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: of themselves emotionally, physically, or otherwise. And this quote comes 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: to us from Nedra Tawer. So, Catherine, when you hear 61 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: this quote and think about, like our topic for today, 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: what comes up for you around this quote. 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's so beautiful and I think what 64 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 4: comes to me is just the idea of true and 65 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 4: just how honest that is, and the idea that we're 66 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 4: not supposed to as children be the heavy as I 67 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: call it. The adults in the room are supposed to 68 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 4: be the ones to take care of us, to nurture us, 69 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 4: to protect us, to love us, all of those things. 70 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 4: So the big what I hear ringing in my ear 71 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 4: as you read that is just the truth of that statement, 72 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 4: the truth of that quote and how powerful it is. 73 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 5: Kathaan, can you talk a bit about your origin story 74 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 5: and what prompted you to dive into this heavy world 75 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 5: of grief and trauma healing? Because I know that people 76 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 5: appreciate the work, but you have to have your own 77 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 5: self care practices, I'm sure when you're diving into stuff 78 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 5: like this. So what if I prompted you to dive 79 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 5: into this world? 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I think, as with most things, most 81 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 4: things that become my passion, it is my story on 82 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 4: both sides of the fence, the grief as well as 83 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 4: the trauma. With respect to the grief, you know, I've 84 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 4: been doing mental health for over twenty five years and 85 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 4: I've done you know, absolutely everything, you know, I like 86 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 4: to say, you know, adults, children, prison, jail, dogs, cats, 87 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 4: and everything in between, But the grief portion really came 88 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 4: I'd say probably my mother passed away in twenty eleven, 89 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 4: and obviously I had done grief work and worked with 90 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 4: both were grieving a new and had all of the 91 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 4: head knowledge. So when my mother passed away, it hit 92 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 4: me in a way that nothing on earth ever had 93 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 4: because my mother and I were extremely close. My mother 94 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,599 Speaker 4: was literally my everything, and so when she passed away, 95 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 4: I was like, okay, old, oh, wait a minute, what 96 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 4: we're doing and how are we going to do this? And 97 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: I got to this point where I was like, wait 98 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 4: a minute. If I know everything that I know about 99 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 4: grief as the professional in the room, having done the 100 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 4: work that I had done for so many years prior, 101 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: and I'm struggling the way that I'm struggling, how in 102 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: the world. 103 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 2: Is everybody else doing this? 104 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 4: And I came to the realization that they're not doing it, 105 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 4: and if they are, they're not doing it the right way. 106 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 4: And so that's really what prompted me to dig deeper 107 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 4: into the grief space and really really hone in on 108 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 4: that as my specialty. Again just born out of my 109 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 4: own place of hurts and need to heal. And then 110 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 4: the same with the sexual with the trauma specific to 111 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 4: sexual abuse and specific to African American women, that too 112 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 4: is a part of my story as a survivor of 113 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 4: childhood sexual abuse. And so again I walked through all 114 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 4: of the things that I say, all of the things 115 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: I walk through, most of the things that survivors go through. 116 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 4: But the realization I came to on that side of 117 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 4: the house was that I came out and I say this, 118 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 4: and it may sound interesting to some people relatively unscathed, 119 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 4: and what I mean by that is, obviously I had many, 120 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 4: many issues to deal with and all of the things 121 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 4: that go with that, but I did not fall into 122 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 4: a lot of those maladaptive behavior that many survivors do 123 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 4: just trying to live and cope and move forward. I 124 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 4: didn't do that. And it's only by the grace of God. 125 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 4: It has nothing to do with me, you know, being 126 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 4: able to figure it out. And so again I came 127 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 4: to this point where I was like, I know that 128 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 4: there are women who've gone through the same thing that 129 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 4: I've gone through, as children, who've gone through more, who've 130 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 4: gone through less, who are struggling in a mighty, mighty way. 131 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 4: And so again, the work that I do specific to 132 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 4: trauma and women recovering from childhood sexual abuse as adults 133 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 4: is really from that place of knowing that my own 134 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 4: journey and recognizing that they can come to a point 135 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 4: of peace, they can find a place of healing, they 136 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 4: can live what I call living beyond what happened. And 137 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 4: I talk a lot about breaking the cycle of secret silence, 138 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 4: because that's really what it's about. And I know, doctor dom, 139 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 4: I'm sure you know this as you've practiced. It's just 140 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 4: this idea of quiet and the shame and all of 141 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 4: the things then that you carry throughout life and how 142 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 4: that then manifests itself literally in every other relationship that 143 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 4: you have. So that's really where the work came from, 144 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: the passion for the work, I'll put it that way, 145 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 4: where it came from in those two areas with respect 146 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 4: to grief and trauma. 147 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. 148 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: And you know, the question that I'm wondering as I 149 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: was listening to you is something that you pointed out 150 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: that I know that a lot of therapists encounter, right, 151 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: is that we have the head knowledge, we have the 152 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: books to tell us how to navigate certain things that 153 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: we might not have personally experienced, and then when we 154 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: experience it for ourselves, there's a shift, right, And so 155 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about that shift, right, Like, 156 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: what are some of the things that changed in your 157 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: approach to working with clients who were experiencing grief after 158 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: you had your own experience. 159 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 4: That's a great question, and I think you know, one 160 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 4: of the things that I've always been able to do 161 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 4: in working with clients is when I leave the room. 162 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 4: And again, doctor, don you know this. When I leave 163 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 4: the room, I'm able to close the door and I'm good, 164 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: i can come home, and I'm very good at closing 165 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 4: that door when the grief issue, and I've been able 166 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 4: to do that for years. When the grief issue came 167 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 4: up for me, I found myself in the room not 168 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 4: being able to close the door anymore. And that's when 169 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 4: I knew I had to do my work so that 170 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: my emotional work, so that I can then continue doing 171 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 4: my professional work. But a lot of it was really again, 172 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: it was that point of being in the room with 173 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: a client thinking that I was okay, because of course, 174 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 4: you know, we're taught to move through and all of that, 175 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 4: and sometimes we can be the worst patients as therapists. 176 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 4: So I found my myself not being present for my clients, 177 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 4: and that ain't good because they didn't They came to 178 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 4: me with their stuff and I'm supposed to be walking 179 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 4: with them. And when I when I realized that I'm 180 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 4: sitting in this space and I'm not present, Oh no, 181 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 4: we got to do something about this. And so for me, 182 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 4: that was really it. It was backing away and doing 183 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 4: my own work at that point to heal. And so 184 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 4: then what that also allowed me to do was to 185 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 4: take a lot A lot of the things I've been 186 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 4: telling my clients to do I never really had to 187 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 4: do because I hadn't had that hurt. So it allowed 188 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 4: me to do the things that I had really been 189 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: talking to them and teaching them to do. And it 190 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 4: also allowed me to find some some new things that 191 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 4: I could talk to my clients about, to bring some 192 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 4: other practices in, to bring some other techniques in to 193 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 4: help them. 194 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: Move through that space. 195 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 4: So that that was really the shift for me when 196 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 4: when I found myself not being present for my clients, 197 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 4: because that's it's such a it's such a powerful position 198 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 4: that we. 199 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: Have in a lot of ways. 200 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 4: And I mean we're literally holding someone's life at times 201 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 4: in our hands, and they are coming to us with 202 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 4: the deepest, darkest parts of them. And whenever we can't 203 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 4: honor that in the way that we need you to 204 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 4: help them move, we have to step back and be 205 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 4: honest enough to step back and say, hope, wait a minute, 206 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 4: let me deal with me so I can help you 207 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 4: deal with you. 208 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 5: I appreciate you sharing it. I have to say, as 209 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 5: someone who partickes in therapy and who probably will the 210 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 5: rest of my life, it's been so useful to me 211 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 5: at different stages. It's so sobering to hear mental health 212 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 5: professionals talk about the things that you and doctor don 213 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 5: talk about. And to know that you all have your 214 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 5: own therapists, I mean that does something to me. It's 215 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 5: so special. And to know that you're still doing the 216 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 5: work and you know the transparency and the mindfulness and 217 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 5: the care that you have for the profession I think 218 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 5: that's amazing. And I do want to know what would 219 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 5: you say are some of the common misconceptions about survivors 220 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 5: of child sexual abuse? 221 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 4: Oh? My, what a loaded question. There's so many. The 222 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 4: first thing I would say is this idea of prevalence. 223 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 4: I talk about prevalence and perpetrators, and when I talk 224 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 4: about prevalence, the idea that people don't really understand the 225 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 4: magnitude that childhood sexual abuse takes place. But statistics say 226 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 4: that one in four girls and one in six boys 227 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 4: have experienced childhood sexual abuse. When we talk about African 228 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 4: American women, the statistics say that sixty percent of Black 229 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 4: girls have experienced childhood sexual abuse before they're eighteen. So 230 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 4: when you think about those numbers, but people really don't, 231 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 4: they don't see it that way. And I think one 232 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 4: of the things is because we don't know how to 233 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:54,119 Speaker 4: deal with it as a society, as families, as a community, 234 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 4: and so it's very easy then just to push it 235 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 4: aside and put on the blinders and say that it 236 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 4: doesn't have happen. The other myth that I think is 237 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 4: is so important is this idea of predators. 238 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: Again. 239 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 4: You know, we talk about stranger danger. Again, the statistics 240 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 4: say that ninety percent of the cases that are reported. 241 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 4: We're never gonna talk about what's not reported. Ninety percent 242 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 4: of the cases that are reported are someone who the 243 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 4: child knows. These aren't people who are lurking behind a 244 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 4: tree in the park. Yes, do those things happen, Yes 245 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 4: they do. But again, the stats say that ninety three 246 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 4: percent of children know their abuser. So we're talking about unfortunately, 247 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 4: we're talking about family members, we're talking about friends of families, 248 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 4: we're talking about church members. Unfortunately, these are people that 249 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 4: children know. So those are two big misconceptions. Other ones 250 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 4: that I talk about this idea that it is the 251 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 4: child's fault, which is a whole nother story in and 252 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 4: of itself, that idea, and then again that because it 253 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 4: happened as a child, when we talk about adults, because 254 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 4: it happened as a child, then there's no impact or effect. 255 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 2: Now, if we're talking about. 256 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 4: You know, a young woman who's in college, or someone 257 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 4: who's thirty thirty five and she's married and she has 258 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 4: two kids, and she has you know, the job, and 259 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 4: you know, and the car and the house and all 260 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 4: the things, well, then obviously she's fine. But again we 261 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: know that that's not true. There are so many things 262 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 4: that fall out from childhood abuse, particularly when it hasn't 263 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 4: been dealt with, when it hasn't been uprooted, when it 264 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: hasn't been spoken out into the universe. I always say, 265 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 4: shame is is a horrible, horrible thing. But what I 266 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 4: always talk about, particularly with survivors, in getting their story out. 267 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 4: And when I talk about the story, I'm not talking about, 268 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 4: you know, being on a stage and podcasts and all that. 269 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 4: I'm talking about talking to your girlfriend, laying on the bed, 270 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 4: talking to your girlfriend and telling her what you've never 271 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 4: told her. I'm talking about telling your husband the reason 272 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: why you jump every time he touches. 273 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 2: You on the back of your ear. That's what I'm 274 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: talking about. 275 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 4: Because those things don't go away if you don't deal 276 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 4: with it. So again, those are the things, and of 277 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 4: course they're you know, when we talk about the prevalence 278 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 4: of substance abuse, when we talk about the preblemce of PTSD, 279 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 4: when we talk about those the prevalence of mental health issues, 280 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 4: depression and anxiety, all of those things that are carried 281 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 4: through life because we haven't dealt with that pain from childhood. 282 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 4: And it looks different on theirs some commonalities, but it 283 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 4: looks different on everyone. So those are some of the 284 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 4: myths that I think that I know are out there, 285 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 4: and some of the ones crite frankly, that make me 286 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 4: cringe the most, and the ones that we really got 287 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 4: to be honest and talk about, you just. 288 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 5: Thinking about how damaging they are as you said them, 289 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 5: just like putting my hands in my I'm like, this 290 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 5: is just so damaging, you know. So I can totally 291 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 5: understand that. 292 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And when you say so, ninety three percent 293 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: of the instances that are reported are from people that 294 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: the child knows. And so, how can we keep our 295 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: children safe from predators, especially if it's someone when we 296 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: when we see that the stats say that it's more 297 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: than likely, almost a guarantee, that it's someone the child knows. 298 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: What do we do to keep our children safe? 299 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 4: It's a great question, it's a difficult question, but I 300 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 4: think it starts with Gota. We gotta get honest about 301 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 4: the fact that this is happening. I think one of 302 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 4: the things that we struggle with, just as society in general, 303 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 4: is believing that people that we know can do some 304 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 4: really bad things, do some really horrible things. That there 305 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 4: can be this duality in people where they're a great 306 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: guy or girl for that matter, and they have a 307 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 4: great job, and they're really nice and they have a 308 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 4: wife and all these things, but there can also be 309 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 4: that other side where they do some really really horrible things, 310 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 4: and that's hard for us to comprehend, just in general 311 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 4: as society and as people. So I think the first 312 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,360 Speaker 4: thing is we got to we have to recognize that 313 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 4: it is happening. And that's why I like to throw 314 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,639 Speaker 4: those stats out and quote those stats, because the stats 315 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 4: don't lie. The other thing I think that we have 316 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 4: to do to protect our children is we got to 317 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 4: listen to our children. We have to get to a 318 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 4: point where when children say I don't want to go 319 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 4: see Uncle Joe, that we don't just say, girl, get 320 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 4: in that car and go see your uncle. 321 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: Girl, Go give your uncle a. 322 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 4: Hug, girl, because there may be something there. 323 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 2: And we have to step back as adults and. 324 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 4: Give our young people the room and the space to 325 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 4: express when they are uncomfortable, when they're feeling some anxiety 326 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 4: about being around someone. Now, it may turn it may 327 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 4: turn out that uncle Joe, you know, just likes to 328 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 4: like jokes and scare the children when they come over. 329 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 4: And if that's the case, fine, but we've got to 330 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 4: do a little investigating to find that out. And so 331 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 4: if that's the case, then that's that's as simple as 332 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 4: a conversation with Uncle Joe, but it may be something. 333 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 2: A whole lot deeper. 334 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 4: We've got to listen to our children and we and 335 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 4: again give them permission to in this, particularly in African 336 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 4: American community, because you know, we we believe in do 337 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 4: what I say, don't ask me no questions. Go sit 338 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 4: down over there. If I told you to do it, 339 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 4: don't ask me why I told you to do it. 340 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 4: All that good, so right, But we really do have 341 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 4: to find a balance in allowing children to express themselves, 342 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 4: allowing them to ask questions, allowing them to have some 343 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 4: some responsibility, some freedom, some autonomy, so that when they 344 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 4: begin communicating these things to us, we don't just brush 345 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 4: it off, paying attention to behaviors. When behaviors change in children. 346 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 4: There's a reason why children. They don't just do things 347 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 4: out of the box for no reason. There's something going 348 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 4: on behind it. So the biggest thing I think is 349 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 4: asking questions, being aware that, being honest enough to say 350 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 4: that this is happening. And then the other thing is 351 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 4: we got to start telling the truth about what happened 352 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 4: to us, because it doesn't happen in a vacuum. We 353 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 4: gotta be honest and start telling our own stories within 354 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 4: our families to unearth some of this stuff so that 355 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 4: children are aware, so that family members are aware, and 356 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 4: so that we can then protect our family, our children 357 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 4: in particular the way that we need to. So those 358 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 4: are some of the things that I think we have 359 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 4: to start doing to protect our babies. 360 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 5: That is so helpful. Thank you so much for sharing those. 361 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 5: I do want to say, Catherine, as a survivor, I 362 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 5: have a hybrid sensitivity around the topic and had so 363 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 5: much anxiety before I even had kids. I was talking 364 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 5: about this in therapy here's for a kids, because I 365 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 5: knew that down the line there were some creepy people 366 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 5: that I'm like, I don't want my child to be 367 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 5: in close proximity and whatnot. So as having a newborn daughter, 368 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 5: and this will be the same for a son. One 369 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 5: of the things that I've done is I'm mindful of 370 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 5: who's around when I'm changing her diaper. Me and my 371 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 5: husband's changing her diaper, and who changes the diaper. We 372 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 5: have a very short list of anyone that could possibly 373 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 5: do that. My question for you is when it comes 374 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 5: to I know many of us, do you have that 375 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 5: you know creepy uncle that creepy guy, or even women. 376 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 5: We have to stop letting women get a past because 377 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 5: there are some women as well. What do you do 378 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 5: if you're in a situation where you know in your 379 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 5: family that this person has been a predator, they've done 380 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 5: things in the past. Maybe no one's talking about it, 381 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 5: but you know that would what would you advise someone 382 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 5: to do in that situation. 383 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 4: You got to call it out. You got to call 384 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,199 Speaker 4: it out for what it is. You have to if 385 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 4: it's a situation you know where it's gone on in 386 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 4: the past, and as far as you know, you know 387 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 4: it stopped and there's nothing going on. But there's nothing 388 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 4: wrong with saying not going to the barbecue. You know, 389 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 4: I'm not going to Christmas because I'm not particularly if 390 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 4: people aren't willing to call it out for what it is, 391 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,239 Speaker 4: I'm not going to the barbecue. And if I go 392 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 4: to the barbecue, and I'll use Uncle Joe since we're 393 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 4: using him today, and if Uncle Joe happens to show up, 394 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 4: you know, either y'all ask him to leave or I'm 395 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 4: going to ask him to leave. There has to be 396 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 4: a zero tolerance that Uncle Joe doesn't get to go 397 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 4: in the house when the kids are in the house 398 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,199 Speaker 4: playing or when the kids are in the house resting, 399 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 4: if we know that this has happened. But again, it's 400 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 4: about calling it out. Obviously, if we're talking about something 401 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,200 Speaker 4: that we know is happening currently, it's the same thing. 402 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 4: We've got to call it out, and we've got to 403 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 4: call the authorities. We have to protect our children, and 404 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 4: you know, and it's so I know that it's difficult 405 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 4: for many people, particularly when you're talking about fathers and 406 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 4: uncles and again, as you say, we're not going to 407 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 4: just talk about men, but unties as well and mothers, 408 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 4: because it's on both sides of the spectrum. And when 409 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 4: you're talking about a situation where children are reporting to 410 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 4: a parent that another parent has in some way abuse them, 411 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 4: that's a whole can of worms on so many levels 412 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 4: that it's so extremely difficult to move through as a family. 413 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 4: But we have to keep in mind the other thing 414 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 4: that the vast majority of children who talk about children 415 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 4: and women in general who report childhood abuse or rape, 416 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 4: they're not lying. Again, the statistics say that they're not lying. 417 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 4: So I think hopefully that answers your question. I think 418 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 4: that's really how we have to handle that. 419 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: I think that that's important that we do that we 420 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: I love what you said about the zero talerance, right, 421 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: and I love Terry how you pointed out that we 422 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: have to open the conversation to the pieces of abuse 423 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: that we don't talk about, right, so that women are 424 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: abusers as well. And in that regard, I think about 425 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: young teenage boys who thirteen, twelve, fourteen, fifteen, who end 426 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: up having sex with a woman who's over eighteen, sometimes 427 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: maybe even over twenty one, and the story, the narrative 428 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: that they put out there is oh, I'm a maid, 429 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,360 Speaker 1: right like that I got I got that cool girl, 430 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: I got that older woman, when in reality, if you 431 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: were fourteen years old and that woman is over eighteen, 432 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: that's abuse. 433 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think that's something that we that we 434 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 7: that society can kind of normalize and keep young boys 435 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 7: from acknowledging that that's actually abuse and that that's a 436 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 7: problem that they had that experience. 437 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 438 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 4: I think you're absolutely right, and I think what you 439 00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 4: just said, they're this issue that society we have. We've 440 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 4: got to completely different standards. You know, we want our 441 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 4: young girls to be you know, cute and pretty and 442 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 4: chaste and all of these things. But our young boys 443 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 4: it's about you know, collecting trophies and how many and 444 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 4: you know, we talk about locker room talk and all 445 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 4: of those kinds of things. We've got to start normalizing 446 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 4: the same message that we give to our young women 447 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,400 Speaker 4: with respect to sex and sexuality and abuse and all 448 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 4: those things. We've got to be having the same conversations 449 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 4: with our young men, the exact same conversation. 450 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, just this idea. 451 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 4: That you know, when we normalize this idea of conquering 452 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 4: and you know, how many trophies do I have? How 453 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 4: many notches do I have on my belt? This is 454 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,880 Speaker 4: the same young men who at some point are going 455 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 4: to be in relationships with young women. And so if 456 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 4: we've taught them that, then how are they going to 457 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 4: engage with their wife? How are they going to then 458 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: engage with their daughter? And so I always talk about 459 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 4: this duality of you know, and I find it really interesting. 460 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: Even when we have this idea of you know, when 461 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 2: young girls go go. 462 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 4: Off to prom and you know, the dad stand at 463 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 4: the door with you know, with the rifle or whatever, 464 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 4: and people laugh about that, but my thought is, but 465 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: there's a young man, you know, you have a son, 466 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,160 Speaker 4: and so what if someone did that to your son. 467 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 4: So all of these things that we normalize in our society, 468 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 4: I think we've really got to get to a place 469 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 4: of being honest about telling the same story across the board, 470 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,440 Speaker 4: and being honest about the long term effects that they 471 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 4: have on young people as they get into relationships, as 472 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 4: they go away to college, and they're trying to navigate 473 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 4: just all the natural things that happen, you know, in adolescence, 474 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 4: in young adulthood that you know, make us all looney 475 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 4: tunes sometimes, so when you layer all these other things 476 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 4: on top of it, it makes it that much worse. 477 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 5: Okaytain question for you, what if you heard as it 478 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 5: relates to the presence of alcohol or other substances when 479 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 5: it comes to child abuse as far as from the. 480 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 2: Abuser, you know, that's an interesting question. 481 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 4: There are people who will use that sometimes and say, well, well, 482 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 4: he was just drunk, just drunk, you know, or he 483 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 4: was drinking that sort of thing. I do believe that 484 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 4: their instances obviously, when people are you know, drunk or inebriated, 485 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 4: when when they will do things. But in general, alcohol 486 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 4: doesn't cause you to abuse children. It just doesn't exactually, 487 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 4: so yeah. 488 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: So now I know that sometimes alcohol and drug use 489 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: can be a way to cope for someone who is 490 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: a survivor of sexual abuse. And so, what are some 491 00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: of the long term mental health effects that a survivor 492 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: might experience? 493 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 2: And this is like a two part question. 494 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, how do they heal from the experience? 495 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, great question, And you're absolutely right. You know, again, 496 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 4: the numbers say that you know, women and people in general, 497 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 4: and I talk about a lot about women because that's 498 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 4: where I work, But again, women and men are there 499 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 4: are four times more likely to suffer from substance abuse, 500 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 4: They're four times more likely to be diagnosed with PTSD, 501 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 4: They're five times more likely than the general population we're 502 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 4: talking about to experience depression, anxiety, and those sorts of things. 503 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 4: And so, because what it comes down to, again is 504 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 4: learning how to cope. And the reality is is that 505 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 4: alcohol and drugs if I don't have to feel, whatever 506 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 4: I can do to not feel that pain, that's what 507 00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 4: I'm going to do. And if alcohol does it, hey 508 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 4: let's do it. And so you find that with a 509 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 4: lot of individuals who have experienced abuse, because it's it's maladaptive. 510 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 4: With coping, but it is a way of coping. It 511 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 4: is going to stop the pain, it's going to stop 512 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 4: the thoughts, it's going to stop the the memories, it's 513 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 4: going to stop the flashbacks at least for a time, 514 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 4: and then I can do what I need to do 515 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 4: and then go on with my life. And when it 516 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 4: comes back, I'm just gonna drink again. And so to 517 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 4: your question of you know, how do they cope, it 518 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 4: really does begin with finding a safe space to say 519 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 4: this is what happened to me. And a safe space, unfortunately, 520 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 4: may not be family. A safe space, unfortunately, may not 521 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 4: be telling mom. A safe space unfortunately may not be 522 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 4: telling Dad, or it may not be there. That is 523 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 4: the sad reality. But there are so many programs out there. 524 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 4: There are therapists, and when I talk about therapists and 525 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 4: people looking for therapists, particularly when we talk about recovering 526 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 4: from these types of things, you gotta have a trauma 527 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 4: informed therapist. Going to therapy to heal from abuse, childhood, 528 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 4: sexual abuse, those sorts of things is very, very different 529 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 4: than going to abuse and saying, you know, I'm just 530 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 4: you know, I'm having a little, you know, trouble sleeping 531 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 4: because you know, my kid just left and went away 532 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 4: to college, and I'm just, you know, I'm having some 533 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 4: adjustment issues as we call them. That looks very different. 534 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 4: And so you need a therapist who's going to understand 535 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: trauma informed care, who can walk you through that, who's 536 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 4: going to be patient with you, who's going to know, 537 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 4: I call it not pushing too far too fast, who's 538 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 4: going to be able to because a lot of the 539 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 4: work in the beginning, when you're working with survivors in 540 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 4: this way, is really about giving them some tools so 541 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: that when you get to the hard stuff, they don't 542 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 4: jump out of their skin. It's about giving them resources, 543 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 4: you know, It's about teaching them how to read, it's 544 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 4: about teaching them what to do when they when their 545 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 4: body starts to do whatever it does when when that 546 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 4: anxiety builds up. So it's super important that that people 547 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 4: engage with a therapist really understands that work and understands 548 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 4: what to do, and quite frankly, isn't afraid of it 549 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 4: because it's it can be ugly, and it can be messy, 550 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 4: and it's hard and it's painful for people. But to 551 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 4: say it is it's necessary in order to get to 552 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 4: the other side. And I do believe that people can 553 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 4: live a life of peace and not have all of 554 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 4: that trauma, you know, just weighing down on them. And 555 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 4: I say that because because I'm here, that's the only 556 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 4: reason quite frankly, that I'm sane and sober, you know, 557 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 4: and not on drugs, and you know, quite frankly, not 558 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 4: doing or not in jail or not you know, homeless, 559 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 4: all of the other things that fall out from that 560 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 4: when you don't have those coping skills. 561 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 5: That is so powerful. Thank you so much for that, Catherine. 562 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 5: I do want to ask you, what would you say 563 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 5: to someone who is listening right now who is a 564 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 5: victim of child abuse and they maybe feel ashamed or 565 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 5: guilty because their body may have responded to the abuse 566 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 5: in the way that they they did not reflect the 567 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 5: true feelings of the violation, and they're really grappling with that. 568 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 4: Perry, That's an excellent, excellent question. Here's what I would say. 569 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 4: Let's say two things. One is understanding that trauma affects 570 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 4: our body and our brains, okay, and our bodies are 571 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 4: built to God built them to do what they do. 572 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 4: And it's such a good question because a lot of individuals. 573 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 4: Again I say one, but a lot of individuals do 574 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 4: struggle with what their body may have done in that moment. 575 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 4: And a lot of times, most of the time, the 576 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 4: vast majority of the time, I hesitate to say all, 577 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 4: but the vast majority of the time, our bodies are 578 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 4: so responding to the way it was it was built 579 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 4: to respond. And in those moments, we're gonna do one 580 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 4: of two things. We're you know, one of three. We 581 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 4: hear about the fight, like the freeze, and you know, 582 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 4: either we're going to fight to get away, you know, 583 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 4: we're going to try to flee, or we're gonna freeze. 584 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 4: And when we freeze, our brain is going to stop. 585 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 4: This whole idea of you know, the Olympic system, and 586 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 4: I don't want to get into the you know, the 587 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 4: brain biology of it, but the whole thing that our 588 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 4: body does when we find ourselves dealing with trauma. And 589 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 4: so what I would say to them is take a 590 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 4: step back and forgive yourself for what you had no 591 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 4: control over your It's kind of like when you catch 592 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 4: a cold and your nose keeps running even though you 593 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 4: want your nose to start is running because you have 594 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 4: a cold, and it's just gonna run until that's over. 595 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 4: And so you can blow it, you can wipe it. 596 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 4: But it's not your fault that your nose is running, 597 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 4: you know. It's you didn't do anything wrong to cause 598 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 4: your notes run. You have a cold, okay, and maybe 599 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 4: you have a cold because you know, if you live 600 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 4: in Texas like me, is call one day and it's 601 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 4: a thousand degrees the next. 602 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: So there we go. 603 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 4: So I use it as an example, and it's the 604 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 4: same thing with our bodies. 605 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: But I do know it can be. So it can be. 606 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 4: So people can be so guilt written and they can 607 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 4: carry that shame. But one of the things I tell 608 00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 4: them with particularly with respect to shame, is that the 609 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 4: person who deserves the shame is the is the perpetrator 610 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 4: who abused you. You did nothing wrong. The shame belongs 611 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 4: to that other individual. And I talk about a lot 612 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 4: of times, you know, in terms of going getting up 613 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 4: in the morning and going to get dressed, and so 614 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 4: you walk in your closet and you put on your clothes, 615 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 4: and then you go across the hall and you put 616 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 4: on your husband's jacket, and then you go downstairs and 617 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 4: then you put on your son's hat on top of that, 618 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 4: so all day long you have on everybody else's clothes 619 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 4: and that stuffs. So not ridding yourself of that guilt 620 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 4: and that shame off everything that does not belong to you, 621 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,399 Speaker 4: and the guilt and the shame of the abuse is 622 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 4: not yours security. It belongs to whomver, or if there 623 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 4: were multiple whomevers, you give that back to them. Now 624 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 4: are there things that you have to work through, certainly, 625 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,880 Speaker 4: but give them their stuff because it ain't yours. So 626 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: that's what I talk about a lot of times, and 627 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 4: letting go of that guilt and that shame, and it 628 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 4: can be difficult. And again because society, we all we 629 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 4: blame the victim. We asked, well, what was she wearing 630 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 4: or what was she doing? Or why was she drinking? 631 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 4: Or well, why did she go over there? All of 632 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 4: these whys when the question is, well, I because I 633 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 4: just wanted to go see my friend at our house 634 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,479 Speaker 4: and we were playing hopscotch and I was twelve years old. 635 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 4: If that's the story, So at twelve years old playing hopscotch, 636 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 4: how is that it might fault then that an adult 637 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 4: then comes and takes advantage of me. 638 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 2: So I hope that which is a question. 639 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,600 Speaker 4: As you can tell that, that's one that I get 640 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,240 Speaker 4: real passionate about because it's the guilt and the shame 641 00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 4: that leads to all the other things that we're talking about, 642 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 4: that leads to the drug abuse, at leads to the alcohol, 643 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 4: that leads to all of those other behaviors that impact 644 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 4: women's lives for decades on end, and they're not able 645 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 4: to really thrive and live in a place of peace 646 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 4: in their mind and in their hearts and in their bodies. 647 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 5: That was so powerful. 648 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 3: Thank you, yes, thank you so much for that. 649 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: So the work that you do, not everybody can do 650 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: it right, And as you mentioned before, not all therapists 651 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: are trained to do this work right right. Not all 652 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: therapists are trained to be trauma informed therapists. And so 653 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,359 Speaker 1: one of the things that I know from doing this. 654 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 3: Work is that. 655 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: Your own self care, it's super important. 656 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 2: Right, Yes, So what do you do. 657 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 3: For your own self care? 658 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: Because I could imagine like as the work that you're 659 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: doing the way I like to look at it as 660 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: like this analogy of a cup, and your care is 661 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,000 Speaker 1: like this cup, and as you give to other people, 662 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: you're pouring from your cup. How what do you do 663 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,080 Speaker 1: to pour into your cup so that your cup is 664 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: constantly overflowing, so that you can give. 665 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 4: Listen, y'all, I pray a whole lot. I listen to 666 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 4: a whole lot of CC winings. I believe, for me, 667 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 4: my faith is really the cornerstone of it all. I 668 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 4: could not do this without my faith, without God, without that, 669 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 4: and as I mentioned, I know that that is the 670 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 4: only reason that I'm that I am in the space 671 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 4: that I'm in with respect to the things that happened 672 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 4: to me, and I know that that's the only reason 673 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 4: that I'm able to do the work. And so my 674 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 4: faith is a huge part of it. My Like I said, 675 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 4: I pray a whole lot, listen to a whole lot 676 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 4: of Czy one and some other folks. But then, you know, 677 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 4: I spend a lot of time with my husband. We're 678 00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 4: empty nesters, and so we don't really have to take 679 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 4: care of we want to take care of nobody, so 680 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,839 Speaker 4: we just kind of, you know, do our own thing, 681 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 4: come and go. I do have, you know, a wonderful, 682 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 4: beautiful new granddaughter, so you know, getting to see her, 683 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,240 Speaker 4: hanging out with my girlfriends. I was just at brunch 684 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 4: this morning, so those kinds of things. That's Those are 685 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 4: the things that nurture me. Being with my family, being 686 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 4: with my friends, hanging with my girlfriends, and then you know, 687 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 4: I love horses, and I love jet skis, and I 688 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 4: love motorcycles, and I love being by the water. So 689 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 4: all of those things I try to make sure that 690 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,919 Speaker 4: I'm doing consistently, because you're right, it is difficult work. 691 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 4: It's hard work when you're hearing the things that you're 692 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 4: hearing constantly from women and the pain that they're in. 693 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 2: I mean, so you're right. 694 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 4: You do have to have to be able to operate 695 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 4: from a space that you can continue to pour out, 696 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 4: but at the same time, you've got to be refilled. 697 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 4: And for me, those are the things I do. Like 698 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 4: I said, my faith. You know, people say, you know, faith, 699 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 4: family and all these things that make these you know, alliterations, 700 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 4: but it really is true for me my faith, definitely, 701 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 4: my family, and I have some amazing girlfriends that you 702 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 4: know that I hang out with. 703 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 5: So that sounds so beautiful. I caught the vibe that 704 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 5: you talked about it. I'm like, oh, that sounds like 705 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 5: you have such a great self care practice in place, 706 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 5: So good for you. Catherine, We appreciate you and the 707 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 5: work that you do for sure, and what we want 708 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 5: to do right now is just shift up the energy 709 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 5: of the interview. We definitely dove into some heavy topics 710 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 5: today that we want to lighten the load and lighten 711 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 5: the mood as we transition on to the close of 712 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 5: the interview. And So, Catherine, because we recognize, appreciate, and 713 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,959 Speaker 5: celebrate the multifaceted woman, and we believe that it's okay 714 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 5: to be classy and wratchet, and we believe that you 715 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 5: can dance to strip club music instead be elegant, we 716 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 5: want to invite you to the oh you clatchet segment? 717 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 5: So do you take on the challenge? Catherine? 718 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 2: I will take on the challenge. So, now that you've agreed, 719 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: we're gonna tell you what's about to go dance? 720 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 4: See I agree before I asked what was really involved? 721 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 2: But that's okay. I'm good. I'm good. 722 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 5: So we're gonna ask you three questions. We're gonna share 723 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 5: three sentence completions, and then we have three photos of 724 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,399 Speaker 5: you that are pulled up on the screen and we're 725 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 5: gonna have you choose the number one through three and 726 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 5: you'll tell us more about the photo that we show you. 727 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: Okay, that's it. I'm nervous. Okay, really don't be nervous, 728 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 2: So don't be nervous. I'm gonna pass on over to 729 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 2: doctor Dom. 730 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,560 Speaker 1: Okay, So what is the best piece of wisdom or 731 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: advice that you've ever received? 732 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 2: Ooh, the best piece of wisdom or advice? 733 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 4: You know what I'm gonna say. My grandmother used to say, 734 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,879 Speaker 4: you know, all the time, keep a living, baby, keep 735 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 4: a living. And I had no idea what she was 736 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 4: talking about. But now that I'm older, I understand what 737 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 4: that meant. So yeah, that's it. Just just keep a 738 00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,399 Speaker 4: living and you will see you know what is to come. 739 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: Yes, my grandmother says the same thing. So yes, I'm 740 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: familiar with that one. Yes, and I love it. 741 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,919 Speaker 5: Right now, right now. 742 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 2: For words for you, Catherine? All right? 743 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:32,800 Speaker 5: Fork or two step? 744 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 2: Two step? 745 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 1: Okay, all right, we got to two step, two step, 746 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: And Catherine, what's the sexiest item that you own? 747 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 4: Oh? 748 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 2: My goodness. 749 00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 4: Oh so this is Joe behind this, my husband, as 750 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 4: I said, he's amazing and he you know, he will 751 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 4: buy me. You know, the star behind the left diper, 752 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 4: you know, around the side of the moon. If I 753 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,720 Speaker 4: ask for it. But the one thing that my husband 754 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 4: will not buy for me or. 755 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 2: Shoes because I just. 756 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 4: Just they're too many, and it's simply because there's nowhere 757 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 4: else to put them in the closet. However, he bought 758 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 4: me one pair of heels and they they're the ones 759 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 4: that that you know that you wear when you know 760 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 4: that you want to thank him or you want to 761 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 4: bless him for being the man that he is. 762 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,879 Speaker 2: So those heels when you want to bless. 763 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 4: Him for being the man that he is. So I 764 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 4: would say those heels, yeah, and I you know, I 765 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 4: don't wear them often. They're you know, they're for a 766 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,720 Speaker 4: special case. I've got a special spot in the top. 767 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,200 Speaker 2: Of the closet. So we'll go. I'll go with those pumps. Yeah, 768 00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,399 Speaker 2: they're about five inches. Sharing they're about five inches. Oh, 769 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 2: thank you for sharing that. 770 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 5: I'm going to have to start using that one right there. 771 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 2: We want to bless themm. 772 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 4: You want to bless like just being just want to 773 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,279 Speaker 4: for being the man that you are bathing. 774 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,720 Speaker 5: So, Okatherine, one question or topic I wish people asking 775 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,920 Speaker 5: more often is, oh. 776 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 2: My goodness, that's a good question. One question or topic, Oh. 777 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 4: My gosh, Yeah, I'll probably go back to what we said, 778 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 4: you know, how to get over the trauma? How they 779 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 4: ask it, and so maybe not that how to get 780 00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 4: over the trauma, but then how to do the work 781 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 4: to get over the trauma. I'll put it that way, 782 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:19,440 Speaker 4: because I asked the question how to get over it, 783 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,879 Speaker 4: but how to really do. 784 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,560 Speaker 2: The work to get over the trauma. I'll go with that. 785 00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: And then the next statement is the most embarrassing thing 786 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: I've ever done to get my husband's. 787 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:35,840 Speaker 2: Attention is. 788 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 4: Okay, this is one during the during the pandemic, because 789 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 4: you know, we all had to had to shift how 790 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 4: we took care of our crowns. 791 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,439 Speaker 2: And I am I'm not a hair girl. 792 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 4: I've never been wanted to really do my own hair, 793 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 4: so you know, in the pandemic, it is what it is, 794 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 4: got to make stuff happen. So I actually decided that 795 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 4: I was going to, you know, do the natural thing 796 00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 4: for a while. 797 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 2: I was going to do some wand curls. 798 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 4: I put them in, sat under the dryer, and came 799 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 4: out and I realized, because I'd had my hair done 800 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,399 Speaker 4: for so long, my husband had never really had never 801 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 4: seen me in that state with wind curls in my head, 802 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 4: you know, looking like Alicia from Friday. And we laughed 803 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,440 Speaker 4: about it because you know, I leave, you know, and 804 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,479 Speaker 4: I go to the salon and I come back and 805 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,799 Speaker 4: there's hair, and it's realizing never happened. So that would 806 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 4: probably be the most embarrassing thing when I took the 807 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 4: dryer off, looking like. 808 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,600 Speaker 2: Alicia's little sister and it. Yeah, we still laugh about it. 809 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 2: So that's a good one. 810 00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,399 Speaker 5: That is a really good one. 811 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 2: We like that. 812 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 5: Thank you for sharing. 813 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 2: Not getting a visual as you shared. 814 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 5: Listen, the last sentence of compleaching for you is what 815 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 5: I love most about myself is that's a tough. 816 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 2: One, y'all, because I don't, okay, what I love most 817 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 2: about myself. You know what I'm gonna go with this. 818 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw you out for a loop. My thighs. 819 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,839 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with that. Yeah, okay, I wanna go 820 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,759 Speaker 2: with that. Go ahead. I was gonna go I was 821 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 2: gonna go deep, but I was. You know, we're gonna 822 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,879 Speaker 2: go with thighs on this wo lash. 823 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:19,919 Speaker 5: That's very caution. 824 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 2: We love that. 825 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 5: And so now Catherine, we want you to choose the 826 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,080 Speaker 5: number one to three and we will show you that 827 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,640 Speaker 5: picture on screen, so you can give us more context 828 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:32,880 Speaker 5: that we can't see if I'm just being the picture. 829 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,760 Speaker 5: So one through three. 830 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:35,879 Speaker 2: I'll go with two. 831 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 4: Y'all are a mess, So tell us so this is 832 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,520 Speaker 4: this is my baby boy. He's not obviously our baby anymore. 833 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 4: He's twenty two. This is our youngest son. He I'm 834 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 4: my gosh, I think it's twenty seventeen. So yeah, so 835 00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,880 Speaker 4: he was still a senior in high school at this point. 836 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,959 Speaker 4: He was actually working at the movie theater. He had 837 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 4: either had the day off taking off, I don't know which. 838 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,839 Speaker 2: So he took me to the movie. So we were 839 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 2: hanging out that day. 840 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I at the time, I obviously always have 841 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 4: tons of work to do, so you see the caps there, 842 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,279 Speaker 4: had a ton of work to do. He said, you know, 843 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 4: we were going to hang out. He was taking his 844 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 4: mommy to the movie. So that's what that was. 845 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so sweet. 846 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,239 Speaker 5: And just for just for last I have to say 847 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 5: you number three, these are the curls. 848 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,719 Speaker 2: These are they I think you may have been talking about. 849 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,080 Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, that's so funny that you 850 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 2: that's a visual that's when is that's when it's done. 851 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,520 Speaker 2: When Yeah, that's what it's done with the role. Catherine, 852 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 2: you are such a gym. 853 00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 5: We just want to thank you so much for good time, 854 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 5: your energy, your expertise, what you do for the world, 855 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,760 Speaker 5: and how you show up. I just want to emphasize 856 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 5: that this was a difficult conversation to have, but it's 857 00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 5: so necessary and I just really appreciate the fact that 858 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,799 Speaker 5: we have someone like you in the world doing this 859 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,960 Speaker 5: work for for survivors and folks that are trying to heal. 860 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:56,919 Speaker 5: So thank you so much. 861 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,000 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you both so much. This is I agree 862 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 2: with you. 863 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 4: It's a heavy topic, but this has been fun. You 864 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 4: guys have certainly made it enjoyable. I appreciate you. I 865 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,960 Speaker 4: appreciate the work that you all are doing again, and 866 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 4: so anything that I can ever do to help the 867 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 4: two of you in any way, feel free to reach 868 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 4: out at any time, and doctor Don will have to 869 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,439 Speaker 4: We'll have to check on the family tree because we might. 870 00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 4: I'll claim you as my cousin anyway, even if we 871 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,200 Speaker 4: find out we're not. 872 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 2: Yes, we're gonna we're gonna go. We don't just say 873 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 2: we cousins anyway. 874 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 5: So yeah, yes, that's your cousin, that's my cousin. 875 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:36,319 Speaker 1: Yes, and so and so cousin Catherine, Yes, ma'am. Thank 876 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,960 Speaker 1: you again for being on the show. Where can people 877 00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,879 Speaker 1: find you on social media? And also for our listeners, 878 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:50,320 Speaker 1: where are you licensed? So that folks who are looking 879 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: to start their therapy journey, how can they get in 880 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 1: contact with you? 881 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 4: Excellent questions. So I can be found on all social 882 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:05,400 Speaker 4: media at missus Cat Speaks, So Mrskat speaks on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. 883 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 4: Don't do a whole lot on Twitter, obviously. My website 884 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,080 Speaker 4: is Katherine Barner dot org. I am licensed in the 885 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,279 Speaker 4: state of Texas, So any professional counseling that I do, 886 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 4: obviously that's here in Texas. But I also do some coaching, 887 00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:22,760 Speaker 4: doing some courses, those sorts of things with our sister 888 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 4: Speak Up Academy that we're going to be opening pretty soon, 889 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 4: going to be doing Living Beyond Loss Academy that's going 890 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 4: to start in January. Starting in October, we're going to 891 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 4: be having our Managing Grief during the Holidays course that's 892 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 4: just going to be a one day course to help 893 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,799 Speaker 4: people move through the holidays, kind of prepare them for 894 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 4: November and December, and then we'll roll into the longer 895 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 4: Academy in January. So also you can find me on 896 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 4: Clubhouse just Katherine Barner. So yeah, I would love to 897 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,000 Speaker 4: connect with anyone that has questions, anyone that would love 898 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 4: to work with me. 899 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:54,000 Speaker 2: I'd be more than happy to do that. 900 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 4: You know, I always say I absolutely love this work. 901 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 4: As I say, it is hard, Yeah, it is difficult, 902 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 4: but it is so necessary but and I absolutely love it. 903 00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 2: So again, thank you guys so much. 904 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,440 Speaker 1: Hey lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her 905 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,480 Speaker 1: Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state 906 00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,960 Speaker 1: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, 907 00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:25,000 Speaker 1: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com. 908 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:30,440 Speaker 1: That's d R D O M I N I q 909 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: U E B R O U s ss ar D 910 00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I 911 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:46,240 Speaker 1: look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for joining us today. 912 00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: Please note that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice, 913 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: self empowerment, and mental health, but is by no means 914 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,839 Speaker 1: meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal relationship 915 00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: with a trained mental health provider. If you are someone 916 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,320 Speaker 1: you know is in need of mental health care. Please 917 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,560 Speaker 1: visit a Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today or 918 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,320 Speaker 1: contact your insurance provider. 919 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:17,879 Speaker 5: If you liked what you heard and want to keep 920 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,480 Speaker 5: the conversation going, visit our website, cultivatingherspace dot com, and 921 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 5: be sure to click the Patreon tab to get access 922 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:30,000 Speaker 5: to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show and 923 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 5: before we meet again, repeat after me. Greatness is my birthright, 924 00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 5: so I no longer ask for permission,