1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: This is Laura, Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 3 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us. So today I 7 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: am delighted to welcome Natalie Nixon to Before Breakfast. Natalie 8 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: is the CEO of Figure eight Thinking and the author 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 1: of the new book Move Think Rest. So Natalie, welcome 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: to the show. 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 2: Thank you, Laura, It's great to be here. 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, so glad to have you. Why don't you tell 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: our listeners a little bit about yourself. 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: I am a creativity strategist. I made up my job title. 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 2: What that means is I advise and help leaders, executive 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: teams and organizations to connect the dots between creativity and 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: business results. And I do that through my global keynote, speaking, 18 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: through my my courses and my facilitations. And I'm from Philly. 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: I live in Philly. I lived a lot of different places, 20 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: but realize the grass is not greener and I'm off 21 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: there as well. 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: Well. I am in the greater Philly region as well. 23 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: So it turns out we're actually having this conversation locally. 24 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: We're very very rainy day. Where are you, Laura in. 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 1: The in the suburbs up in the Cameline area? Yeah, 26 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: how about how about you? 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,119 Speaker 2: I'm in the city in mount Airy. 28 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: Oh, I love it. I love it. Well, we are 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: not that far from each other. So I'm waving, waving 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 1: across the river. So so, Natalie, uh, you write in 31 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: this book Move Think Rest about the mt R framework. 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: Those are being the first initials of those words which 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: you call the motor framework. So why don't you tell 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: us a little bit about that? What is the Motor framework? 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: The Motor framework is a human centered operating system to 36 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 2: help all of us to flourish in a time of 37 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: ubiquitous technology. I'm precedent at burnout and new rules for work, 38 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: and the motor human centered operating system is people can 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: think of it as an on ramp to help them 40 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 2: do as I say, toggle between wonder and rigor, which 41 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: is related to my Wonder rigor theory. It's the way 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 2: that we can think in a more democratized way about creativity. 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: So the Move Think Rest operating system is a way 44 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 2: to build creativity as a capacity, to understand that creativity 45 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: is a strategic competency that will allow all of us 46 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: to innovate more consistently and sustainably. And if you want, 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: I can, I can kind of thirty thousand foot level 48 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 2: break down what each of those components are. 49 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: Well, sure, I'd love to hear, you know. I mean, 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: maybe people understand generally what move means, but maybe not. 51 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, So when I talk about movement, I'm not actually 52 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: talking only about exercise. Exercises great, and it's really important. 53 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: What I'm referring to is movement hygiene. We have begun 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: in our knowledge economy to think about the brain as 55 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 2: kind of disembodied, disembodied from the rest of the body, 56 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: and we also separate brain from mind. So when I'm 57 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: talking about movement, I'm talking about movement hygiene, which means 58 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: that we integrate movement throughout the day. We're making sure 59 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: we stand up, we take walks, and that's really important 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: because when we move, our ideas move, and so the 61 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 2: spinal cord, as some of us may or may not 62 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: be aware, is actually an extension of the brain, so 63 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: that when we are kind of slumped over at our 64 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: desk for long periods of time. Actually, anytime longer than 65 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: forty minutes at a time is kind of getting into 66 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: a danger zone. Then we actually are constricting blood flow 67 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 2: to the brain, which means we are restricting oxygen, which 68 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 2: means we're not going to actually be doing our best thinking. 69 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 2: So movement hygiene is really important. On the thought part, 70 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: I'm talking about the value of forecasting and back casting. 71 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: So backcasting is about the of memory and reflection. Forecasting 72 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: is about the imagination curiosity. And what's significant about both 73 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: backcasting and forecasting you need to slow down in order 74 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,119 Speaker 2: to do some really effective backcasting and forecasting. The reason 75 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 2: why that sort of thought matters is that while we 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: tend to focus on, you know, real sharp cognition and 77 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 2: clear thought, you actually will not be doing your clearest 78 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 2: thinking if you don't incorporate backcasting and forecasting and then rest. 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: I'm not just saying I'm not what. I'm not recognizing 80 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 2: that every office building have a nap room. I mean, 81 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: if that makes sense for your company, cool, But I'm 82 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 2: talking about intermittent rest. Intermittent rest that can be scaled. 83 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 2: So rest in terms of micro breaks, I actually calendar 84 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: in buffers on my calendar to make sure that I'll 85 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: be hard hitted, and I'll sit at the deskerage way 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 2: too long, and I'll make sure that I stand up, 87 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 2: step away from the desk, take a walk, I do 88 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 2: day dream breaks, but also scaling out to sabbatical. So 89 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: I interviewed almost sixty people for this book, and I 90 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: also interview people who have taken sabbatical work at nonprofit organizations, 91 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: tech firms, not only you know, people work in higher education. 92 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: So that's I mean, I'm sure a lot of us 93 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: are listening to that, Like WHOA forty minutes is the 94 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: danger zone and that's a problem because a lot of 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: work days are definitely set up with longer periods of 96 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: sitting than forty minutes. I wonder if you could talk 97 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: through what a work day might look like if it 98 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: incorporated this framework to optimize our creativity and our results. 99 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: Well, what it would not look like is back to 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: back zoom or team meetings. It would look like a 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 2: day where you are cognizant of when if you're too 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: the extent that you're able, where you're a cognizant of 103 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: where you get your best, sharp focused thinking of. And 104 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 2: that's different for different people. So for me, I can 105 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 2: do really deep focused thinking work in the mornings after 106 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: two o'clock, that's not the best time for me to 107 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: do that, So I like to do more kind of 108 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: responding to emails and those sorts of things in the afternoons. 109 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 2: It would look like a day where if it all possible, 110 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 2: if you're able to move Because I also interview people 111 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 2: who live with physical disability, so I was really interested 112 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: in what movement, thought, and rest looks like when you're 113 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: restricted in movement, or if you live in a socioeconomic 114 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 2: environment where it's not safe to just go for a 115 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 2: walk perhaps or the space isn't even designed for that. 116 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 2: So making sure that you start your morning with some 117 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: sort of walk or movement. Making sure that meetings, even 118 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: if they are done on zoom or in person, spark 119 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: new types of thinking. So something like question storming is 120 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 2: a really great technique to integrate into collaborative team meetings 121 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 2: so that you're not just doing solutions oriented thinking. They're 122 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: looking for the answer. We know that you can tell 123 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: lot more about people by the quality of the questions 124 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 2: if they're asking even more than their answers. So those 125 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 2: are just a few. 126 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: Examples what are your favorite kinds of breaks? I mean, 127 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: are those going to be like movement breaks? Often? I 128 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: guess you could get both the moving and the resting 129 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: together as well, exactly. 130 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 2: So that's a really good point. The move think rest 131 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 2: framework is not siloed. It's not first to move, then 132 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: you think, then you rest. So for example, when you 133 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,239 Speaker 2: stand up for a day dream break, that's affecting thought 134 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 2: as well as rest. I love to go for short 135 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: walks in the woods. The other thing I've learned in 136 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: my research A lot of times people aren't going for 137 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: a short walk because they think, oh, well, I don't 138 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 2: have thirty minutes. You don't need thirty minutes. I have 139 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: a three minute I have a walk that I know 140 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: it takes three minutes. I have a walk that I 141 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: know takes nine minutes. Sometimes I can take a fifteen 142 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: minute long walk and at the end of the day, 143 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: if I'm fortunate, I'll be able to take there's a 144 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: walk I take the thirty minutes. You and I live 145 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 2: in the Philadelphia area. Philadelphia is an incredible city where 146 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 2: nature is integrated throughout the city. So here in Mount Airy, 147 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: I live across the street from the woods, so I'm 148 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: really fortunate that I can just kind of dip into 149 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 2: the woods whenever I'm able. So my favorites are going 150 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: for a walk doing daydream breaks. My daydream breaks last 151 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: sixty to ninety seconds. That's really all it takes for 152 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: me to return to work revived and refresh. And I 153 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 2: didn't do it this morning, but I really try to 154 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: stretch my body for at least ten minutes on a 155 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,119 Speaker 2: yoga matt every single morning before I get to work. 156 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: Excellent habits for sure. Well, I'm going to take a 157 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: quick ad break and then we'll be back with more 158 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: from Natalie Nixon. Well, I am back talking with Natalie Nixon, 159 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: who is the author of the new book Move, Think Rest. 160 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: We've been talking about some of your favorite breaks, and 161 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: I love the idea of a day dreaming break here, 162 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people hear that, like, 163 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: wait a minute, So Natalie is daydreaming for sixty to 164 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: ninety seconds, what are you doing in that time? 165 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: Like? 166 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: How do you get yourself to the point where you're 167 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: I guess how does one set that up to incorporate 168 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: a daydream break intentionally into your life? 169 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: Well, I mentioned earlier that I actually have like I 170 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: call it buffer zones. In my calendar, there are typically 171 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: thirty minutes long twenty minutes song. I'm not daydream for 172 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: that long. But the cool thing about daydreaming is that 173 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: the more you do it, the more you long for 174 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 2: the more, the better you acclimate to it. What's actually 175 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: happening when we daydream is that our default mode network 176 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 2: is getting activated. So the default mode network, or the 177 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: regions in the brain where they're different neural synapses that 178 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 2: get activated, the default mote network. I call it the 179 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 2: washing machine of the brain. Because the default mote network 180 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: gets activated when we tap out of the world. So 181 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,080 Speaker 2: for example, when we are resting or in a nice 182 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 2: deep sleep, when we take a shower, when we're reading 183 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: a nice immersive book of fiction, when we are an engaging, rollicking, 184 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: laughing conversation with a friend. When we tap out of 185 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: the world, it's not that our brain stops working. It's 186 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 2: just working differently, and that's essential because that's where the 187 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: synchronization of all what I call the juicy bits of 188 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 2: productivity happen. That's why often if you stay rooted to 189 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 2: your chair and your desk and are trying to figure 190 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 2: out the answer to a problem, you're just stuck. It's 191 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 2: not going to come unless, counterintuitively, you step away and 192 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 2: you're actually letting the default mode network take place. You know, 193 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 2: originally I thought about calling this book invisible Work, because 194 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 2: that's really what I'm talking about. Some of our best 195 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: work is happening when it can't be tracked, when it 196 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 2: can't be monitored, because rest should not be treated as 197 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 2: a reward. Rest should actually be integrated into the day. 198 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 2: Movement should be integrated with about the day. The different ways 199 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,239 Speaker 2: of thought should be integrated throughout the day so that 200 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: that synchronization of different neurosyn apsis can happen. And that's 201 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 2: why when you come out of a nice shower, you think, oh, 202 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: that's what I was trying to think of. Oh, this 203 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 2: this new sort of of these new massive ideas kind 204 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: of lock into place. There's a reason for that if 205 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: I can gig out a bit. You know, when you 206 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 2: write a book, you learn a lot. And so one 207 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: of the things I learned is that there's something called 208 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 2: the hypnagogic state, and the hypna pompic state, and the 209 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: hypnaggic state. Think gogic, groggy, Right when you're about to 210 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: drift off to sleep. That's actually when science times is 211 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: now know the research those neurosynapses that really relate to 212 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 2: creativity are really superactive. So, for example, Thomas Edison noticed 213 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: that when he started to doze off to sleep, he 214 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: had the first time it happened, he had an orb 215 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 2: that's what the literature says, in his hand and it 216 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: kind of fell fell to the ground. He woke up, 217 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: and all of a sudden he was able to connect 218 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: the doct between a problem. So that's so. So what 219 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: you can do is plant the seat of a question 220 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: of what you're wondering about before a very short nap 221 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: or even a deep sleep. The hypn a pompic state 222 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 2: is that state of waking up. So when you've had 223 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 2: a good rest and you're just starting to wake up 224 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: to the dawn and the stillness of the room, and 225 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, for me at least a 226 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,360 Speaker 2: lot and I for a lot of other people, ideas 227 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 2: begin to synchronize. That's the hitpen a pompic state. Again. 228 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: You can see a question or query in your mind 229 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 2: before you rest, and a lot of the time the 230 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: answer does reveal itself. It's just incredible how the brain 231 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: works and how we can attune our body in different 232 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: habits to optimize our productivity and our creativity. 233 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's fascinating stuff. I mean, where are these ideas 234 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 1: come from? It sounds like, yeah, sitting at our desks 235 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: are probably about the least creative places we're going to be. 236 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,839 Speaker 1: But you mentioned one of the things with I mean, 237 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: sometimes thinking is done with others. Yes, and you had 238 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: an interesting thing. You know, the AI is the hot topic, 239 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: but you talked about using as a thinking partner. 240 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: Yes. 241 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: Are there particular ways that we could use AI to 242 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: sort of help us as we're coming up with Yes, 243 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: lots of ideas. 244 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: Yes. So a lot of people say, you know, AI 245 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 2: is your copilot, it's your co creator, and it is. 246 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: And I have been pronouncing and a lot of my 247 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: keynotes that we are actually in the middle of a 248 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: human revolution. We're not in the middle of a technological revolution. 249 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: We have this tech crush, this infatuation with the technology, 250 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 2: but in reality, the technology, if we play our cards right, 251 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 2: is there to leverage and optimize what makes us uniquely human. 252 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 2: Because let's face it, the AI is not going anywhere. 253 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 2: It is taking over basic tasks, It is eliminating hundreds 254 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,199 Speaker 2: of thousands, not millions of jobs. And what will be 255 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: your strategic advantage advantage is your capacity for the imagination, 256 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 2: the way you frame and reframe questions, the way you 257 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: think critically, the way you were able to take that 258 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 2: quick result that you get from a prompt and chat 259 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 2: GPTEE and acknowledge that now you have spaciousness, right, you 260 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 2: have spaciousness to think more critically, to collaborate more, to 261 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 2: have eyeball to eyeball conversations. So, for example, I love 262 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: the otter app because it's actually helped me and it's 263 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: given me a freedom in the way that I write. 264 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: I'm very oral and oral, and so I will in 265 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 2: advance just write up like five question prompts around a 266 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 2: chapter or a section I'm working on, and I'll just 267 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 2: take a walk. I actually did this during a writing 268 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: sabbatical that I gifted myself last year writing move Think Rest. 269 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: I did it in Miami. A friend gifted me her 270 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: Miami beachside condo at a really nice rate, and I 271 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 2: would just take a walk along the beach and do 272 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: a brain dump verbally of my thoughts and my ideas 273 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: into the otter app, which you know is a wonderful 274 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: transcription app and then I got back to the room 275 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 2: and I would sort and stept and make sense of 276 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: those ideas. But it gave me the freedom to just 277 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: do free association and just talk. And what it removed 278 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: was what I call her negative Nancy, who often sits 279 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 2: on my shoulder and criticizes, Oh, that's not important, No 280 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 2: one's going to read that. Who cares about that? That's stupid, 281 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 2: you know, So that went away. So otters are really 282 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: great app way. I like to use Quaud and chat 283 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 2: GPT are two. One of my favorite questions is to 284 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 2: ask is to put in something that I have drafted 285 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 2: and ask what am I missing? What have I not 286 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 2: thought about? Oftentimes it will it will remind me to 287 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: think about things differently from a geographical perspective, from a 288 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: historical perspective, from a cultural perspective. I miss what does 289 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 2: this mean? In healthcare? So it helps me also to 290 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 2: see the holes and the gaps. And that's what we 291 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 2: get when we have real in person collaboration with people 292 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 2: who have different training than we do, different levels of 293 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: seniority or junior You just think, look at the same issue, 294 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: but see it slightly differently. And that's essential for innovation. 295 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,120 Speaker 1: Wow, Well, we're all going to have a great brain 296 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: trust that we can bounce things off. 297 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: That's right. 298 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: In the future, it's going to be amazing. Well, we're 299 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: going to take one more quick ad break and then 300 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: I will be back with more from Natalie Nixon. Well, 301 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: I am back talking with Natalie Nixon. She is the 302 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: CEO of Figure eight Thinking. She is also the author 303 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: of the brand new book Move Think Rest. So, Natalie, 304 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: this show is called Before Breakfast. So we have a 305 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: lot of people who are really into morning routines. I 306 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: wonder if you happen to have any sort of morning routine. 307 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: I know you said you do your best thinking in 308 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: the morning, so maybe can tell us a little bit 309 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: about what your mornings look like. 310 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 2: So I try to start buffer my day in the 311 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,119 Speaker 2: mornings with c pushing it with silence and more stillness. 312 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: I pray, I do a shirt meditation. I typically do 313 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 2: my meditations while I'm stretching our reference. I'd like to stretch. 314 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: I have them in our home. I has something I 315 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: call the She's Sweet and it has like a Netflix 316 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 2: TV zone. It has a stretching zone, has a reading 317 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 2: fiction zone. So in that stretching zone, I burn incense, 318 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: I light a candle I put on I have a 319 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 2: whole playlist called Mellow Chill, and I play that sort 320 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: of music. I tend to be a kinesthetic meditator. I'd 321 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 2: never thought I was good at meditation until I learned 322 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: that through the research for Move Big Rest. But there's 323 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 2: something called kinesthetic meditation. So I'm a swimmer and I 324 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: and so as when you some lapse, for example, you 325 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 2: get into this kind of meditative state of just repetition 326 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 2: and you get out of your head into your body. Similarly, 327 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: stretching helps me to do that, where I just start 328 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: to focus on my breathing. I get more tuned to 329 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: my balance and where I'm at in my body. So 330 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: that's a big part of how I try to start 331 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 2: most mornings. They'll always succeed, but it always makes me 332 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:01,840 Speaker 2: feel incredibly better. But definitely a prayer meditation stretch. I 333 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: also have started tricking my brain into calling water brain juice. 334 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: I had a facial like a month ago, and I 335 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 2: have naturally oil a skin and the woman who did 336 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: the face and say, oh, your skin's dry, it's absorbing 337 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: whatever this stuff was. She's put on my face quick 338 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 2: and I thought I think I need to be drinking 339 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 2: more water, so I have a whole picture of water. 340 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 2: I make sure that I start to drink that because 341 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:24,400 Speaker 2: when you think about if you get a good seven 342 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 2: or eight hours of sleep, you haven't been hydrating at all. 343 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: So that's one of the first things up in your body. 344 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: It helps with the organ tissue. Your brain is a 345 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 2: really important organ that needs a lot of water for 346 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 2: lectrolytes and that sort of thing. And then I get 347 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 2: into the work. I typically have mapped out what I 348 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,119 Speaker 2: want to get achieve even get done between nine and twelve. 349 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 2: The other thing I've started doing and I interviewed the 350 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 2: co founder for moveth think Rest. I interviewed the copter 351 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 2: flown from moveth think Rests are wonderful kind of quirky 352 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,919 Speaker 2: company called I was really really suspicious about it or 353 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: skeptical about it when I first learned of it. But 354 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: I've also started using it as a room to enter 355 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: when I need to do deep thinking work. Flown as 356 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 2: UK base. It is basically a synchronous synchronicity. You drop 357 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: into a room that looks like a zoom room, and 358 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: it feel a little weird at first because everyone is 359 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 2: just like thinking. Everyone we all have like the same 360 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 2: expressions when we think and they're working, no one talks. 361 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 2: You can put into the chat era your intention like 362 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: I want to send five emails or I need to 363 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: write a rough draft outline or whatever or finish shape 364 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,719 Speaker 2: or proposal, and people will be thumbs up in your intention. 365 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 2: You can have a set a time limit. So it's 366 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 2: really like just as the principles a moth think rest, 367 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 2: it's really adheres to unique breaks throughout the day. When 368 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 2: you do a break with floone, you can opt into 369 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 2: a screen looking at nature, or you can do a puzzle. 370 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 2: So play is a big part. So Flown has been 371 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 2: a really cool work accessory and I highly recommend it 372 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 2: to your listeners, especially given the topic of your podcast. 373 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it's just it provides accountability and you mirror 374 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: other people who are working, and it hopefully brings out 375 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 1: the best in you as well. 376 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 2: It feels like you're walking into a hushed library. Yeah, 377 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 2: this is where we're going to work. We're all serious now, yes, yes, 378 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: so not Onalie. I asked all my guests a question. 379 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of the tagline of the show, but what 380 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: is something you have done recently to take a day 381 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: from great to awesome. 382 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 2: Mmm. Something I've done recently to take a day from 383 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 2: great to awesome. Well, I've started keeping a wins journal. 384 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: I learned that from a great book called I think 385 00:20:58,080 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: it's from their book called The Gap in the Game, 386 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 2: which is by Benjamin Hardy and Forgetting the co author. 387 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 2: But it helps me to identify even in days that 388 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: I think are just myth or ordinary small wins that 389 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: I've had. Right, I sent out five emails, I received 390 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 2: an inquiry for a new proposal. I drank an entire 391 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: picture of water. However, you want to define the scrip 392 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 2: of your winds. And that really has helped me take 393 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 2: a day. I forget if you say good to awesome 394 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: or great to awesome, but that really helps him because 395 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 2: it elevates my perception of my work. It helps me 396 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 2: account accountable to being as a former boss of mine 397 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 2: in the garment in the fashion streets to say, keep 398 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 2: your eye with the donut, not the hole. Don't focus 399 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 2: on what it should it could have been, but what is. 400 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 2: So when I do that, winsdow and I keep it 401 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 2: in the drawer in my desk. I used to do 402 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: it at the end of the day, but I've started 403 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: just documenting it throughout the day. If I'm traveling, I 404 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 2: have I keep a winds file in my notes app 405 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 2: that helps me to make a day go from good 406 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:12,240 Speaker 2: to great to awesome. 407 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. That is wonderful. What 408 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: are you looking forward to right now? 409 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to going to London next week. I 410 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 2: leave for London on Saturday. I have been I was 411 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 2: nominated as part of the Thinkers fifty twenty twenty four 412 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: cohort and I've been nominated for their Talent Award for 413 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: this year. So gonna go to their gala and meet 414 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 2: some really interesting thought leaders from around the world. I'm 415 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 2: gonna be on a Deloitte podcast and I'm collaborating with 416 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: a colleague and pal of minding, James Hewitt, who is 417 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: Real Vivia, an incredible guest for your podcast. I'll connect 418 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 2: the two of you. He's a performance scientist and we're 419 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 2: doing a conversation next Wednesday after the Thinkers fifty events 420 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: at Tavas, which is a global consultancy. We'll be interviewed 421 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: by the chief Medical Officer about future work ideas and 422 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 2: the title of our of our conversation is the future 423 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 2: works open for end when humans thrive. So we both 424 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,439 Speaker 2: have a vested interest in amplifying, leveraging what makes us 425 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 2: uniquely human and a time of so much change in technology. 426 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:24,560 Speaker 1: Wonderful. That sounds very exciting and London is lovely, so yes, great, it's. 427 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: Gonna be great. Yeah. 428 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,159 Speaker 1: So Natalie, where can people find you? 429 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: Just go to Figure eight Thinking dot com. That's the 430 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: number eight, Figure eight, like this ice gatting figure athinking 431 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: dot com and definitely sign up for the newsletter because 432 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 2: that's where you'll be able to tune into all the 433 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 2: great tips and techniques site. I have beware of the 434 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 2: blogs and my fast company articles and we just started 435 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 2: a sixty six day motor challenge. Not too late to join, 436 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: but just go to Figure a Thinking dot com and 437 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: the first step is to sign up. 438 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: For the newsletter wonderful. Please go do that and check 439 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: out the book Move Think rest as well. So Natalie, thanks, 440 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to 441 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or 442 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: any other episode, you can always reach me at Laura 443 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura, 444 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,160 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and here's to making the most. 445 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 2: Of our time. 446 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've got questions, ideas, 447 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 1: or feedback, you can reach me at Laura at Laura 448 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a production of iHeartMedia. 449 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit the iHeartRadio app, 450 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.