WEBVTT - Back to Biz with Katie and Boz: Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.320 That time you got home from a week of double 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:10.520 shifts and your dog didn't recognize you. Hate me? Hate me? 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.320 Do you want to treat? You want to treat? You 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.360 knew it was time for something new. Let's job it up. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.759 At career Builder. You can find jobs with the work 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:24.360 life balance and salary you want, plus build a resume 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.560 and apply to multiple jobs in just one click. Start 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:33.519 your search at career builder dot com. The moment you 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:38.360 realized you were mistaking your kids for co workers? Okay, team, 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:44.519 I'm now What was the moment you knew it was 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:47.479 time to get back to work. Let's job it up 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.720 at career Builder. 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That's O T T E R dot Ai. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:22.959 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric and I'm bosmas st John 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.319 and this is Back to Biz with Katie and Bose Bose. 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:32.800 I'm really excited to have Brian Chesky on our podcast today. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.920 I've known him for a long time. He's been the 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.839 boy wonder as the CEO of air B and B. Yes, 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:41.920 for sure. I mean even when I was in Silcom 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:44.639 Valley at Apple and then at Uber, I was always 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.600 impressed by what he was doing. But his backstory is 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.280 so interesting for people who don't know. Brian started the 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:55.920 company twelve years ago, yes, during a recession, with two buddies. 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.280 He had studied industrial design at Risdy. He moved to 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.800 San Francisco Go so he and his friends rented out 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.280 their apartment. When there was a convention in town, but 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.920 not enough hotel rooms, they blew up a few air 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:13.239 mattresses and voila. The idea was born. Air Go Airbnb, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:17.520 get it. Listen. I'm a marketer, and that joint is fresh. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.680 I like it, very fresh. But the last couple of 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:24.680 months have been crazy, right, he was about to go 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.760 public and then bam, here comes the pandemic. I can't 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.200 imagine bows the stress he's been under in recent weeks. 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:35.200 So we started there, we asked Brian just how he's 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:40.120 managing right now? Yeah, let's get to it. Yeah, I'm 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.200 I think I'm I'm doing about as well as somebody 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.920 in my circumstance could be doing. Right. Um, it's been 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.440 a pretty uh intense and harrowing four months or so, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.240 and I'm sure I'm sure most people listening will have 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.280 identified with that experience. You know, when we started Airbnb 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.280 a dozen years ago, I told myself, no, I don't 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:00.800 think I'll ever do something as crazy as that. Uh, 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:03.640 And I think I've just we have experienced something that 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.880 is probably even crazier than starting this company. When you're 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.200 the child the two social workers and you're like unemployed, 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:11.160 and suddenly twelve years later you have a company like 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.160 Airbnb and you're gonna go public, you just you have 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.560 this real sense of, um, wow, I've really done something 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.880 the last twelve years. So then to lose eight of 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.960 it in five weeks is like, um, you know that 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:29.240 was definitely um. And if if I thought my life 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.640 was crazy the first twelve years, the next five weeks 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.440 got even crazier. Losing eight percent of it or of 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.760 it and um, and then suddenly you know, we found 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:42.160 ourselves in this kind of total crisis where it felt like, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:44.600 you know, I don't know, probably like a lot of people, 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.040 you feel like you're staring into the abyss and you 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.880 can't quite tell if it will ever be better. And 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.760 for me, so much of it was your psychology. It 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:57.040 would have been so easy to just say the spiral 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.480 and you know, when you're responsible for thousand the people 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:03.400 and you know everyone's pretty scared and a little freaked out, 0:04:04.000 --> 0:04:08.080 it's really really important that the psychology organization maps, matches 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:10.920 and mirrors the psychology of the leader. And so you 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.080 have to find your way to stay positive and you 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.240 have to find a way to say, for every single 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:18.480 bad thing, this is an opportunity. I'm not gonna exploit this, 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.640 but every moment is a moment for us to do 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.960 something that's defining to make us better. And that was 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:27.279 the thing that we like went into this crisis with. 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:31.880 How did the pandemic fundamentally change your business? As you 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.480 said you were set to go public, Uh, instead, you've 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:38.320 taken a huge hip, you had to lay off of 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.680 your workforce in may Um. I know you've tried to 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.680 be very generous to your employees. You let them keep 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:49.880 their laptops, keep their health insurance for a year. But um, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.160 you know, how did you figure out how to move forward? 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.599 And with all your hopes and dreams, as you said, 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:02.280 shattered in a period of five weeks. Boo oh god, Yeah, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:06.000 I mean, and I felt so terrible because it wasn't 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.000 just our hopes and dreams. It was all these employees 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.599 who had stock and you know, I, you know, and 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.560 many people. I'm sure they were employed planning to do 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.520 things like buy homes and stuff with that money, and 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.080 they really counting on it. And investors have been really 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:24.960 paci with me. Probably the hardest thing though, um with 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.640 the host. We have four million hosts and of them 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.960 telling us they depend on me to pay their rent 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.960 or the mortgage. And we had guests who wanted to 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.160 cancel their their future A bookings because they told us 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:40.080 I can't travel. Well. Was more than a billion dollars 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.680 of cancelations and the problem was that these were a 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:45.360 host who were depending on the money to pay the 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.599 rent or mortgage entering an economic recession. So what do 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.520 you do when guests are telling you I feel unsafe, 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.520 I can't travel, I need a refund, and host saying 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.280 if you refund them their money, I'm going to be 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.120 in a really bad economic position. And we ultimately did 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.640 the following. We decided to refund the guests the money. 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:04.279 We felt like, we told the host like, we have 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:06.599 to do this because we can't. We have to say 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.320 we were not signing with the guests, were signing with 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.120 health and safety. We can't have people being put in 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.080 harm's way. And you know, um, this is a global 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.520 at the time was global shutdown too, and a billion 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.480 people shutdowns. So we can't be part of everyone traveling 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.240 right now if they don't want to travel and they 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.680 want their money back. But then you know, there was 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:27.080 a huge uproar and host were like super upset and 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:31.320 they were very upset with us and me, and we 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.120 decided to take and this was at the depth of 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.279 our kind of our own despair. Um, two million dollars 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:41.039 of our own money. Now in good times it's you know, 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.240 you could you raise money, and bad times though, it 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.160 wasn't clearly we'd be able to raise any money. So 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.479 this was two we thought we'd probably need and we 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.360 just gave it to our host. Um, we didn't make 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.320 them whole, but it was the most we could do. 0:06:53.880 --> 0:06:57.080 And then something crazier happened. Our employees pulled together of 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:59.360 their own money, a million dollars in their own money 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.719 UM to of the host and so then we the founders, 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:04.599 we we put some of our own money in and 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.839 we started doing all these things. And that was probably 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.640 the first kind of defining action we did. And then 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:12.480 after that we said to ourselves, you know, we can't 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.200 we're not as relevant right now as we used to 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.400 be because people aren't traveling, but we can be useful 0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:20.360 in a crisis. And so we noticed that these nurses 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:26.080 and UM and fireworks, firefighters and others UM and doctors, UM, 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:28.720 we're going to sites and they needed Airbnb. They need 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.320 homes to stay in or they didn't want to stay 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.280 with their families and get their families sick. So we 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:36.960 worked with our host community and two thousand of our 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.200 hosts offered homes for workers on the front line for 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.760 a discount, and we kind of shared the discount. We 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.760 had these products, this product called Experiences where you can 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:49.760 do these three our activities with locals. I remember, I remember, Brian, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.760 when you and I talked about how you were expanding 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:57.160 that that service to Airbnb. You know, and it was 0:07:57.360 --> 0:08:01.080 the next second act of Airbnb, and then it got 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.360 stopped because, um, you know, social distancing. You can't be 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:08.040 bringing travelers together from countries. It's like the exact opposite 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:12.200 what people want. So our host said, well, we're um, 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.119 can we offer them online? And so in fourteen days 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.040 our team build a product to create online experiences, which 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.600 ended up being like the fastest growing product we ever created. 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.680 So that worked out really well. But like master classes, yeah, yeah, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.440 they're they're kind of but they're interactive so um so 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:30.680 basically it's a one hour activity. So I'll give you 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.640 an example. We have Olympic athletes, so we did a 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.000 partnership we did we're one of the sponsors the Olympics. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:38.000 The Olympics aren't happening this year. We got I think 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.400 thirty Olympian athletes and by the way, the average Olympic athlete, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:43.120 a lot of people don't know this, lives around the 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:45.680 poverty line because a lot of them, you know there 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:48.080 that you dedicate your life to your sport and then 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.520 a lot of sports you don't get a sponsorship, so 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:53.080 they kind of have to start their careers over. And 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.120 so we said, well, you know, we we created a 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.079 way for them to be able to offer a one 0:08:58.120 --> 0:09:01.360 hour kind of online class. Um. You know, it could 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:03.800 be a workout, it could be like learning about setting goals, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:05.360 it can be a bunch of things. We have about 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.600 thirty of them now and hope they hope to get 0:09:07.600 --> 0:09:10.520 a lot more. And then of course we had to 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.080 raise two billion dollars because we were burning cash very 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:16.760 very quickly. And then of course we had the layoff, 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.520 which was probably the heart decision I've ever made in 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:23.880 my life. And um, and it became an unavoidable truth 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.199 when we we realized, you know, travel stopped, and we 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.319 don't know what's gonna return, and when it does return, 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.360 we know it's going to be different. When you're in 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:35.160 a crisis, you learn a lot about yourself in a crisis. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.760 You also get clarity in a crisis that you may 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.520 not have had in any other period in your life. 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.679 And in this crisis, I kind of got clarity and 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.199 like like we got clarity, like why are we even 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:46.880 doing this in the first place? Like what would the 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.480 world lose if we just disappeared tomorrow? And it became 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:52.720 really clear that the part of yournb that was special, 0:09:53.360 --> 0:09:57.520 where the everyday host that we're offering, like connection and belonging, 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:00.360 and if we disappeared from this earth and they couldn't 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.280 offer what they're offering, that would be the thing that 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.839 would be bad. And she thought, you know, that's what 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:06.440 we need to get back to. We need to get 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.160 it back to why we started this company. Back to belonging, 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.120 back to connection, back to empowering regular people, um, back 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.520 to our roots. And so we decided we're gonna like 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.680 scale back or shut down things that aren't that. So 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.559 we paused our transportation effort, we had a content effort, 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.839 we paused that. We scaled back our hotels business. You 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.360 really just got really focused and we said, that's what 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.800 we're gonna do. And UM, you know, I think we're 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:34.960 gonna build off that base now. So we can't do it. 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:36.880 We're not as big as we were in some ways, 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.079 we can't do everything we used to. But things we're 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.320 gonna do, we're gonna be very very passionate about. And 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:45.000 I I think ultimately, I'm hoping years from now, we'll 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.280 look back on that as a really important decision when 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:53.280 we come back. Brian Chesky on how travel will forever change, 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:04.720 whether your event needed one room or an entire conference center. 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.559 Hoppin has revolutionized the way people come together. 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You can find 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.200 jobs with the work life balance and salary you want, 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.480 Plus build a resume and apply to multiple jobs in 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:59.880 just one click. Start your search at career builder dot. 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.840 You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:10.800 Let's return to our conversation with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.480 By the way, I do have a confession for you 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.800 that when I was at uber Um. First of all, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.120 I'm I'm a nerd of marketing, right I I obsess 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:28.360 over everyone's creative, everyone's strategy, everyone's vision. And I was 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:33.400 absolutely in love with the idea of belonging. But I 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.160 thought it was just it just hit the mark so 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.080 beautifully because in that instance, you don't have to pick 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.000 a side. You know, it's not you're you know, the 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.160 folks who are booking versus the host. You know, it's 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.559 not it's not versus, it's just belonging. Everybody wants to 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.760 belong and we all understand that from a very deeply 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.960 emotional human level. And it is still true, you know, 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.480 it's what we are dealing with right now with the 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:03.960 crises in the world around racial inequality and everything else. 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:08.840 Everybody wants to belong. It is the fundamental need, you know. 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:12.560 And now I think there's also an opportunity to serve 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.000 in sort of future hope about continuing to belong to 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.720 the world, because what this pandemic has done has brought 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.800 us home and we are you know, inside, and we 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:27.040 are concerned and we're anxious, but we also want to 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:30.800 connect back to people and back to outside, and you know, 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.760 we all have a deep longing for that. So what 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.840 do you think is the future of travel and of 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.640 that belonging to the world. Because let me tell you something, 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:41.280 I'm tired of my house. Can I get some kind 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:44.560 of membership, you know, for Airbnb where I could just, 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:46.760 you know, frequently, just move around the way I want to, 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.920 because because I would like that future for myself. That's 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.720 actually a really good idea to talk about. That, I mean, 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.120 a really good idea we should definitely talk about. Um, 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:01.200 what is the future of travel? Well, um, I'm hoping, 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:04.520 and I think that travel will get more focused on communities, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.960 more focused on people, more intimate, authentic, small, off the 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:13.000 beaten path, truly being connected to communities where you go, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.520 not being an outsider, being an insider. And I think 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.440 that the last fifty years of travel has been very 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.760 defined by being an outsider. The only other thing I'd 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.000 say is I think that we used to live in 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.800 this world where you lived in one place and you 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.720 would take a week vacation somewhere else, or you travel 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:35.600 for business, and I think that is also changing. I 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.640 think that living and traveling will blur together because now 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.400 you could instead, like you could go somewhere for a 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:44.360 few months. Is that living or traveling or is that 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.400 something in between? And so I think you're gonna see 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.920 this blurring this the idea that people will be mobile. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.800 They won't just have moble devices, they themselves would be mobile. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.720 I think that you're gonna see UM travel being longer 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.360 length of stay, two smaller communities, UM to you know, local, authentic, 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.800 and UM more immersive, more experiential. Maybe the one thing 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.920 that makes that obvious to me is you ever want 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:10.480 to know what the future will look like, just look 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.520 at what young people want, because they're going to define 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.120 that future. And the younger the person is, the more 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.360 they want something that's authentic, and the more they want 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.720 to have an experience, not own a thing. I remember 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:24.600 reading that all these small towns across America were dying 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.960 because the older residents were passing away, the younger people 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.200 didn't stick want to stick around, and they were all 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:36.520 migreeting to cities because that was where the exciting cultural 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.640 things were happening. So I'm curious what you what you 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.480 see in the future for some of these major metropolitan areas. 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.600 Do you think that there will be a return to 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:51.640 more rural kind of pastoral or bucolic and all those 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:55.840 words lifestyles? Yeah, I think the short answer is yes, 0:16:55.880 --> 0:17:02.520 but UM, I thought that the small communities, UM, Pittsburgh's um, 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.960 you know, like I'll just pick Pittsburgh and Cleveland. I 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.840 thought they were going to see a resurgence, but I 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:09.800 thought that would happen over the course of ten years. 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.439 So I thought, you know, before COVID, that maybe by 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.800 the orty that you would see the rise of small communities. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.480 And the reason why was, UM, you know, for the 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:23.840 first time in human history, more people live in cities 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.840 than out of cities. And the cities they're they're they're 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.160 congering to are not just metropolis mega metropolisis so these 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.680 are like ten million plus cities like New York or 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.240 you know, SF is only a million, but it feels 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.560 really dense, the second densist city in the country, and 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.040 then outside of the United States. And I think there 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.000 was this problem where there was a little bit of 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:46.960 an alienation of urban living. So UM people lived in 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.399 apartment buildings, but they didn't quite know their neighbors. It 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.560 was really expensive live in cities, and if you live 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.400 in if you live in San Francisco, l A, New York, London, you'll, 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:56.520 I mean anyone living these seas will know how expensive 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:00.520 it is. And they're really it was becoming like city 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:02.719 life was becoming a thing really really hard, and for 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.080 each new generation going to city, I think it was 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:06.639 it was it was getting a little bit difficult. And 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.080 so we're in a way. I think we were reaching 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.960 what I call a temporary not a permanent, a temporary 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.320 peak city moment um. I thought that was going to 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:16.200 take a lot longer, and I think what COVID did 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.080 is I think it accelerated that. And I think the 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.920 big other unlock was Zoom, because now people are realizing, actually, 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.879 you can get work done without being in the space. Now. 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.760 To be clear, I do think there's a huge value 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.280 people being together, and I also want to be clear 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:32.600 that I do not think this is the death of 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.080 the city at all. I think it's a sign wave. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.720 So I think you're gonna see over the next five 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:42.760 years people doing what I'm what we're calling travel redistribution 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.800 and population redistribution. Um. I think you're gonna see people 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.720 traveling to smaller communities. And I think people are kind 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:52.640 of We've got used to this industrialized mass tourism world 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:54.960 where you were in lines and crowds, and I think 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.720 people really want something more intimate more authentic. What I 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:01.520 would say, though, is the is the following. I think 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:03.800 New York's best days are ahead of it. I think 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.240 Los angeles best days are ahead of it. I think 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:09.280 big cities best days are ahead of them, not behind them. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.239 But I think before they get better, they're gonna get 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:14.440 a little tougher. And I think what's going to happen 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.040 is that you're gonna see, um, the business predictions. So 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.399 it's the risk of predictions. Is I'm wrong, um but 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.520 um But I do think you're gonna see a population 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.480 slow down in urban cities. A lot of creative people 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.200 I come from a creative background, are going to choose. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.119 They were already a lot of creative people were already 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.760 not living in New York. They were going to New Jersey, 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:34.760 they were going all sorts of other places. It was 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:38.159 just too expensive. They're going to redistribute. And then I 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.280 think what's gonna happen is cities are gonna be cheaper. 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:42.960 And as cities like New York gets cheaper than a 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.080 new generation of people are going to go into cities. 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.000 But they're gonna come and they're gonna bring a whole 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:50.440 fresh perspective to new urban living. And I think they're 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:53.720 gonna do something awesome that like, and I'll be like, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:55.840 you know, in the next five or ten years, I 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:58.359 can't predict, and I think the city will be something 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:03.480 different when we come back. We asked Brian about Airbnb's 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:13.080 race problem. That's right after this, still living in and 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:16.080 manually taking notes. 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