1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: That time you got home from a week of double 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: shifts and your dog didn't recognize you. Hate me? Hate me? 3 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: Do you want to treat? You want to treat? You 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: knew it was time for something new. Let's job it up. 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: At career Builder. You can find jobs with the work 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: life balance and salary you want, plus build a resume 7 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: and apply to multiple jobs in just one click. Start 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: your search at career builder dot com. The moment you 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: realized you were mistaking your kids for co workers? Okay, team, 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: I'm now What was the moment you knew it was 11 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: time to get back to work. Let's job it up 12 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: at career Builder. Are simple, customizable search tool lets you 13 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: search for part time, full time, and even work from 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: home jobs so you can find a job that fits 15 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: your lifestyle. Get started now at career builder dot com. 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: Still living in manually taking notes, there is a better 17 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:06,839 Speaker 1: way to start the new year with auto dot ai 18 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: automatically get meeting notes. Auto dot ai works for virtual 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and Google Meet. Sign up 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: on the web for free or download in the app stores. 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: Auto dot Ai. That's O T T E R dot Ai. 22 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric and I'm bosmas st John 23 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: and this is Back to Biz with Katie and Bose Bose. 24 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to have Brian Chesky on our podcast today. 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: I've known him for a long time. He's been the 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,839 Speaker 1: boy wonder as the CEO of air B and B. Yes, 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: for sure. I mean even when I was in Silcom 28 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,639 Speaker 1: Valley at Apple and then at Uber, I was always 29 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: impressed by what he was doing. But his backstory is 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: so interesting for people who don't know. Brian started the 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: company twelve years ago, yes, during a recession, with two buddies. 32 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: He had studied industrial design at Risdy. He moved to 33 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: San Francisco Go so he and his friends rented out 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: their apartment. When there was a convention in town, but 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: not enough hotel rooms, they blew up a few air 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 1: mattresses and voila. The idea was born. Air Go Airbnb, 37 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: get it. Listen. I'm a marketer, and that joint is fresh. 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: I like it, very fresh. But the last couple of 39 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: months have been crazy, right, he was about to go 40 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: public and then bam, here comes the pandemic. I can't 41 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: imagine bows the stress he's been under in recent weeks. 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: So we started there, we asked Brian just how he's 43 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: managing right now? Yeah, let's get to it. Yeah, I'm 44 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: I think I'm I'm doing about as well as somebody 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: in my circumstance could be doing. Right. Um, it's been 46 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: a pretty uh intense and harrowing four months or so, 47 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,240 Speaker 1: and I'm sure I'm sure most people listening will have 48 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: identified with that experience. You know, when we started Airbnb 49 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: a dozen years ago, I told myself, no, I don't 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: think I'll ever do something as crazy as that. Uh, 51 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: And I think I've just we have experienced something that 52 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: is probably even crazier than starting this company. When you're 53 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: the child the two social workers and you're like unemployed, 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: and suddenly twelve years later you have a company like 55 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: Airbnb and you're gonna go public, you just you have 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: this real sense of, um, wow, I've really done something 57 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: the last twelve years. So then to lose eight of 58 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: it in five weeks is like, um, you know that 59 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: was definitely um. And if if I thought my life 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: was crazy the first twelve years, the next five weeks 61 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: got even crazier. Losing eight percent of it or of 62 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: it and um, and then suddenly you know, we found 63 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: ourselves in this kind of total crisis where it felt like, 64 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, probably like a lot of people, 65 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: you feel like you're staring into the abyss and you 66 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: can't quite tell if it will ever be better. And 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: for me, so much of it was your psychology. It 68 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: would have been so easy to just say the spiral 69 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: and you know, when you're responsible for thousand the people 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: and you know everyone's pretty scared and a little freaked out, 71 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: it's really really important that the psychology organization maps, matches 72 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: and mirrors the psychology of the leader. And so you 73 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: have to find your way to stay positive and you 74 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: have to find a way to say, for every single 75 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: bad thing, this is an opportunity. I'm not gonna exploit this, 76 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: but every moment is a moment for us to do 77 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: something that's defining to make us better. And that was 78 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: the thing that we like went into this crisis with. 79 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: How did the pandemic fundamentally change your business? As you 80 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: said you were set to go public, Uh, instead, you've 81 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: taken a huge hip, you had to lay off of 82 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: your workforce in may Um. I know you've tried to 83 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: be very generous to your employees. You let them keep 84 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: their laptops, keep their health insurance for a year. But um, 85 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: you know, how did you figure out how to move forward? 86 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: And with all your hopes and dreams, as you said, 87 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: shattered in a period of five weeks. Boo oh god, Yeah, 88 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean, and I felt so terrible because it wasn't 89 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: just our hopes and dreams. It was all these employees 90 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 1: who had stock and you know, I, you know, and 91 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: many people. I'm sure they were employed planning to do 92 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: things like buy homes and stuff with that money, and 93 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: they really counting on it. And investors have been really 94 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: paci with me. Probably the hardest thing though, um with 95 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: the host. We have four million hosts and of them 96 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: telling us they depend on me to pay their rent 97 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: or the mortgage. And we had guests who wanted to 98 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: cancel their their future A bookings because they told us 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: I can't travel. Well. Was more than a billion dollars 100 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: of cancelations and the problem was that these were a 101 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: host who were depending on the money to pay the 102 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: rent or mortgage entering an economic recession. So what do 103 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: you do when guests are telling you I feel unsafe, 104 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: I can't travel, I need a refund, and host saying 105 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: if you refund them their money, I'm going to be 106 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: in a really bad economic position. And we ultimately did 107 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: the following. We decided to refund the guests the money. 108 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: We felt like, we told the host like, we have 109 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: to do this because we can't. We have to say 110 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 1: we were not signing with the guests, were signing with 111 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: health and safety. We can't have people being put in 112 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: harm's way. And you know, um, this is a global 113 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: at the time was global shutdown too, and a billion 114 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: people shutdowns. So we can't be part of everyone traveling 115 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: right now if they don't want to travel and they 116 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: want their money back. But then you know, there was 117 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: a huge uproar and host were like super upset and 118 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: they were very upset with us and me, and we 119 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: decided to take and this was at the depth of 120 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: our kind of our own despair. Um, two million dollars 121 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 1: of our own money. Now in good times it's you know, 122 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: you could you raise money, and bad times though, it 123 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: wasn't clearly we'd be able to raise any money. So 124 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: this was two we thought we'd probably need and we 125 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: just gave it to our host. Um, we didn't make 126 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: them whole, but it was the most we could do. 127 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: And then something crazier happened. Our employees pulled together of 128 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: their own money, a million dollars in their own money 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: UM to of the host and so then we the founders, 130 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: we we put some of our own money in and 131 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: we started doing all these things. And that was probably 132 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: the first kind of defining action we did. And then 133 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: after that we said to ourselves, you know, we can't 134 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: we're not as relevant right now as we used to 135 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: be because people aren't traveling, but we can be useful 136 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: in a crisis. And so we noticed that these nurses 137 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: and UM and fireworks, firefighters and others UM and doctors, UM, 138 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: we're going to sites and they needed Airbnb. They need 139 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: homes to stay in or they didn't want to stay 140 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: with their families and get their families sick. So we 141 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: worked with our host community and two thousand of our 142 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: hosts offered homes for workers on the front line for 143 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: a discount, and we kind of shared the discount. We 144 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: had these products, this product called Experiences where you can 145 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: do these three our activities with locals. I remember, I remember, Brian, 146 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: when you and I talked about how you were expanding 147 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: that that service to Airbnb. You know, and it was 148 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: the next second act of Airbnb, and then it got 149 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: stopped because, um, you know, social distancing. You can't be 150 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: bringing travelers together from countries. It's like the exact opposite 151 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: what people want. So our host said, well, we're um, 152 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,119 Speaker 1: can we offer them online? And so in fourteen days 153 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 1: our team build a product to create online experiences, which 154 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: ended up being like the fastest growing product we ever created. 155 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: So that worked out really well. But like master classes, yeah, yeah, 156 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: they're they're kind of but they're interactive so um so 157 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: basically it's a one hour activity. So I'll give you 158 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: an example. We have Olympic athletes, so we did a 159 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: partnership we did we're one of the sponsors the Olympics. 160 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: The Olympics aren't happening this year. We got I think 161 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: thirty Olympian athletes and by the way, the average Olympic athlete, 162 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know this, lives around the 163 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: poverty line because a lot of them, you know there 164 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: that you dedicate your life to your sport and then 165 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: a lot of sports you don't get a sponsorship, so 166 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: they kind of have to start their careers over. And 167 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 1: so we said, well, you know, we we created a 168 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 1: way for them to be able to offer a one 169 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: hour kind of online class. Um. You know, it could 170 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: be a workout, it could be like learning about setting goals, 171 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: it can be a bunch of things. We have about 172 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: thirty of them now and hope they hope to get 173 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: a lot more. And then of course we had to 174 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: raise two billion dollars because we were burning cash very 175 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: very quickly. And then of course we had the layoff, 176 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: which was probably the heart decision I've ever made in 177 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: my life. And um, and it became an unavoidable truth 178 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 1: when we we realized, you know, travel stopped, and we 179 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna return, and when it does return, 180 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: we know it's going to be different. When you're in 181 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: a crisis, you learn a lot about yourself in a crisis. 182 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: You also get clarity in a crisis that you may 183 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: not have had in any other period in your life. 184 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: And in this crisis, I kind of got clarity and 185 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,199 Speaker 1: like like we got clarity, like why are we even 186 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: doing this in the first place? Like what would the 187 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: world lose if we just disappeared tomorrow? And it became 188 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: really clear that the part of yournb that was special, 189 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: where the everyday host that we're offering, like connection and belonging, 190 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: and if we disappeared from this earth and they couldn't 191 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: offer what they're offering, that would be the thing that 192 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: would be bad. And she thought, you know, that's what 193 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: we need to get back to. We need to get 194 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: it back to why we started this company. Back to belonging, 195 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: back to connection, back to empowering regular people, um, back 196 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: to our roots. And so we decided we're gonna like 197 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,680 Speaker 1: scale back or shut down things that aren't that. So 198 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,559 Speaker 1: we paused our transportation effort, we had a content effort, 199 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: we paused that. We scaled back our hotels business. You 200 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: really just got really focused and we said, that's what 201 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: we're gonna do. And UM, you know, I think we're 202 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: gonna build off that base now. So we can't do it. 203 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: We're not as big as we were in some ways, 204 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 1: we can't do everything we used to. But things we're 205 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: gonna do, we're gonna be very very passionate about. And 206 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: I I think ultimately, I'm hoping years from now, we'll 207 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: look back on that as a really important decision when 208 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: we come back. Brian Chesky on how travel will forever change, 209 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: whether your event needed one room or an entire conference center. 210 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: Hoppin has revolutionized the way people come together. 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Start your search at career builder dot. 244 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. 245 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: Let's return to our conversation with Airbnb CEO Brian Chesky. 246 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: By the way, I do have a confession for you 247 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: that when I was at uber Um. First of all, 248 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm a nerd of marketing, right I I obsess 249 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: over everyone's creative, everyone's strategy, everyone's vision. And I was 250 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: absolutely in love with the idea of belonging. But I 251 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: thought it was just it just hit the mark so 252 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: beautifully because in that instance, you don't have to pick 253 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: a side. You know, it's not you're you know, the 254 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 1: folks who are booking versus the host. You know, it's 255 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: not it's not versus, it's just belonging. Everybody wants to 256 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: belong and we all understand that from a very deeply 257 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: emotional human level. And it is still true, you know, 258 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: it's what we are dealing with right now with the 259 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: crises in the world around racial inequality and everything else. 260 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: Everybody wants to belong. It is the fundamental need, you know. 261 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: And now I think there's also an opportunity to serve 262 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: in sort of future hope about continuing to belong to 263 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: the world, because what this pandemic has done has brought 264 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: us home and we are you know, inside, and we 265 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: are concerned and we're anxious, but we also want to 266 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: connect back to people and back to outside, and you know, 267 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: we all have a deep longing for that. So what 268 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: do you think is the future of travel and of 269 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: that belonging to the world. Because let me tell you something, 270 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm tired of my house. Can I get some kind 271 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: of membership, you know, for Airbnb where I could just, 272 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, frequently, just move around the way I want to, 273 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: because because I would like that future for myself. That's 274 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: actually a really good idea to talk about. That, I mean, 275 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: a really good idea we should definitely talk about. Um, 276 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: what is the future of travel? Well, um, I'm hoping, 277 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: and I think that travel will get more focused on communities, 278 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: more focused on people, more intimate, authentic, small, off the 279 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 1: beaten path, truly being connected to communities where you go, 280 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: not being an outsider, being an insider. And I think 281 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: that the last fifty years of travel has been very 282 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: defined by being an outsider. The only other thing I'd 283 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: say is I think that we used to live in 284 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: this world where you lived in one place and you 285 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: would take a week vacation somewhere else, or you travel 286 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: for business, and I think that is also changing. I 287 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: think that living and traveling will blur together because now 288 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: you could instead, like you could go somewhere for a 289 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: few months. Is that living or traveling or is that 290 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: something in between? And so I think you're gonna see 291 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: this blurring this the idea that people will be mobile. 292 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: They won't just have moble devices, they themselves would be mobile. 293 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: I think that you're gonna see UM travel being longer 294 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: length of stay, two smaller communities, UM to you know, local, authentic, 295 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: and UM more immersive, more experiential. Maybe the one thing 296 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: that makes that obvious to me is you ever want 297 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: to know what the future will look like, just look 298 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: at what young people want, because they're going to define 299 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: that future. And the younger the person is, the more 300 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: they want something that's authentic, and the more they want 301 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: to have an experience, not own a thing. I remember 302 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: reading that all these small towns across America were dying 303 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 1: because the older residents were passing away, the younger people 304 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: didn't stick want to stick around, and they were all 305 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: migreeting to cities because that was where the exciting cultural 306 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: things were happening. So I'm curious what you what you 307 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: see in the future for some of these major metropolitan areas. 308 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 1: Do you think that there will be a return to 309 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: more rural kind of pastoral or bucolic and all those 310 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 1: words lifestyles? Yeah, I think the short answer is yes, 311 00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: but UM, I thought that the small communities, UM, Pittsburgh's um, 312 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: you know, like I'll just pick Pittsburgh and Cleveland. I 313 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: thought they were going to see a resurgence, but I 314 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: thought that would happen over the course of ten years. 315 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: So I thought, you know, before COVID, that maybe by 316 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: the orty that you would see the rise of small communities. 317 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 1: And the reason why was, UM, you know, for the 318 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: first time in human history, more people live in cities 319 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: than out of cities. And the cities they're they're they're 320 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: congering to are not just metropolis mega metropolisis so these 321 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: are like ten million plus cities like New York or 322 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: you know, SF is only a million, but it feels 323 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: really dense, the second densist city in the country, and 324 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: then outside of the United States. And I think there 325 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: was this problem where there was a little bit of 326 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: an alienation of urban living. So UM people lived in 327 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: apartment buildings, but they didn't quite know their neighbors. It 328 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: was really expensive live in cities, and if you live 329 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 1: in if you live in San Francisco, l A, New York, London, you'll, 330 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean anyone living these seas will know how expensive 331 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: it is. And they're really it was becoming like city 332 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,719 Speaker 1: life was becoming a thing really really hard, and for 333 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: each new generation going to city, I think it was 334 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: it was it was getting a little bit difficult. And 335 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: so we're in a way. I think we were reaching 336 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: what I call a temporary not a permanent, a temporary 337 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: peak city moment um. I thought that was going to 338 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: take a lot longer, and I think what COVID did 339 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: is I think it accelerated that. And I think the 340 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: big other unlock was Zoom, because now people are realizing, actually, 341 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: you can get work done without being in the space. Now. 342 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: To be clear, I do think there's a huge value 343 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: people being together, and I also want to be clear 344 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: that I do not think this is the death of 345 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: the city at all. I think it's a sign wave. 346 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: So I think you're gonna see over the next five 347 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: years people doing what I'm what we're calling travel redistribution 348 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: and population redistribution. Um. I think you're gonna see people 349 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 1: traveling to smaller communities. And I think people are kind 350 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: of We've got used to this industrialized mass tourism world 351 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: where you were in lines and crowds, and I think 352 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: people really want something more intimate more authentic. What I 353 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: would say, though, is the is the following. I think 354 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: New York's best days are ahead of it. I think 355 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: Los angeles best days are ahead of it. I think 356 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: big cities best days are ahead of them, not behind them. 357 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,239 Speaker 1: But I think before they get better, they're gonna get 358 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 1: a little tougher. And I think what's going to happen 359 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: is that you're gonna see, um, the business predictions. So 360 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: it's the risk of predictions. Is I'm wrong, um but 361 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: um But I do think you're gonna see a population 362 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: slow down in urban cities. A lot of creative people 363 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: I come from a creative background, are going to choose. 364 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,119 Speaker 1: They were already a lot of creative people were already 365 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: not living in New York. They were going to New Jersey, 366 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: they were going all sorts of other places. It was 367 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: just too expensive. They're going to redistribute. And then I 368 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: think what's gonna happen is cities are gonna be cheaper. 369 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: And as cities like New York gets cheaper than a 370 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: new generation of people are going to go into cities. 371 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 1: But they're gonna come and they're gonna bring a whole 372 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: fresh perspective to new urban living. And I think they're 373 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: gonna do something awesome that like, and I'll be like, 374 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: you know, in the next five or ten years, I 375 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: can't predict, and I think the city will be something 376 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: different when we come back. We asked Brian about Airbnb's 377 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: race problem. 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This episode is brought to you by 396 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: Death on the Nile, exclusively in theaters February eleven. The 397 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: greatest detective of all time, Hercule Poiro, returns to solve 398 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: another deadly case. Join Poiro on a wild ride down 399 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: the Nile River, promising luxury, intrigue, and murder. Grab your 400 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: friends and get ready to solve this murder mystery on 401 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: the big Screen, starring Kenneth Branda and Galgha dot premiering 402 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: only in theaters February eleven. Hi, everyone, you're listening to 403 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bows. Let's pick back 404 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: up with Brian Chesky. One of the things I'm hearing 405 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: you say, Brian, is you think this pandemic is going 406 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: to result in a real reset for society for all 407 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: of us. Our priorities, our relationships are, you know, our 408 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: hopes and dreams, how we want to live our lives 409 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: um and and I'm wondering, you know, I hope so, 410 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: because I think the world needed to be recalibrated. There 411 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: was something that was off. But I wonder after a 412 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: vaccine is is uh you know comes about do you 413 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: worry and wonder is it just going to go back 414 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: to the way it was or do you think we 415 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: will be forever changed. I think it will be forever changed. 416 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: I think the big question is how long does this 417 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: go on? And the longer the shutdown happens, the more 418 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: we can't go back, and the more profound the shifts, 419 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: because where people are gonna invent and they're gonna adapt, 420 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: they're going to create new habits. And I think the 421 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: way to ask this question is how many things were 422 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,200 Speaker 1: we doing in the old way just because we were 423 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 1: doing them or because they were habits. Because now we're 424 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: gonna have to make a choice to go back to 425 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: the old way. We're not going to be doing that 426 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,959 Speaker 1: because we were just doing it all along. And so 427 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,679 Speaker 1: I think we will go back to a bunch of 428 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 1: stuff because people will choose, but they're not gonna choose everything. 429 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: They're going to choose to only go back to the 430 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,720 Speaker 1: things that were essential. And then I think new things 431 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: are going to emerge, so we'll go back a little bit. 432 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: It's like a pendulum. We we're gonna but we're not. 433 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: I don't think we go back all the way. And 434 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: my my point of view on this would be um 435 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: less will return than than than is intuitive that that 436 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: that this is a new world. Um and I think 437 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: we're only the beginning of it, because what are we 438 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: only four months into this? So I mean, and it's 439 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: probably gonna go on, Like we may not be in 440 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: lockdown the rest of the year, but like you know, 441 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: I think another four months of this, you know, Like 442 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: I know, our industry is going to be changed forever, 443 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: and I doubt we're the only one. Yeah. Well, I 444 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed the conversation around change because we've been 445 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: waiting for it a long time, especially as it relates 446 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: to diversity, inclusion, just crimination. Like this is a time 447 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 1: of real change. And you know, as a as a 448 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: black woman who travels alone by her you know, a 449 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: lot for work and sometimes were personal. Um, it's always 450 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: been on my mind, you know how discrimination or my 451 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: own safety, Uh how I managed that in the world. 452 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: And I wish that more companies and more businesses would 453 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: pay attention, you know, to my particular plight. I know 454 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: Airbnb is certainly one in which you know, discrimination on 455 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: the platform and within you know the product has been 456 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: a challenge and so what what are you thinking around that? Yeah? 457 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: I think this has been like a wake up call 458 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: for a lot of a lot of US and white 459 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: people and like business leaders and others, like it's been 460 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: a it's just been a it's has just been like 461 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: a fundamental wake up call that I think that everyone needed. 462 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: And so I think that's another example and a good example. 463 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: But we're not going back act like whatever change happens 464 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: this front, it's it's it's happened, and it's not going backwards. UM. 465 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: I think specifically to Airbnb, UM, we have a unique 466 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: history in this area. You know, in two thousand sixteen, 467 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: there was a hashtag that was trending on Twitter and 468 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: the hashtag was airbm hashtag Airbnb wall black, and the 469 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: hashtag basically meant that black travelers, primarily United States, We're 470 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 1: chronicling their experiences trying to book an Airbnb and being 471 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: rejected by white hosts primarily. And it took me by surprise, 472 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: and you know, we were not fully conscious that some 473 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: of our platform could be used for discrimination. So this 474 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: became an existential risk to our business and we um 475 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,479 Speaker 1: we ended up actually bringing Eric Holder before Uber, so 476 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: we were the first ones to I think bring an 477 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: Airic Holder and he did. He did a whole report 478 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: and analysis. We worked in the American Civil Liberties Union, 479 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: this woman Laura Murphy, and we basically created Anti Discrimination 480 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: TAW Force and we made a bunch of progress. We 481 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: did a couple of things, like one of the things 482 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: we did, which seems really basic, was we asked everyone 483 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 1: to basically like a test. It's kind of like checking 484 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: a box, like in terms of service box saying that 485 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: you will not discriminate on the base of like age, race, religion, 486 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: um orientation, gender, things like that. In one point three 487 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: million people chose not to do that. So we said, fine, 488 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 1: see you later. We were moving through the platform and 489 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: so but we we we had we had limitations because 490 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: we were not measuring the amount of discrimination or platform. 491 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: And as you know in Silken Valley, what you can't measure, 492 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: you don't often optimize, and we were only responding to anecdotes. Now, 493 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: it's really hard to measure discrimination. How do you do it? 494 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: You have to know people's races to do that. Well, 495 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: how do you find out someone's race without violating their privacy? 496 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: And so we ended up doing two years ago, as 497 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: we started engaging with Color of Change. There obviously you 498 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: know the I think they're the largest online civil rights 499 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 1: group UM, and we worked with them other civil rights 500 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: organizations and c P and we worked at privacy groups 501 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,959 Speaker 1: because you know, you've got to be thinking of us 502 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: the rights and privacy. And we designed a way where 503 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: and we just launched this like I think it was 504 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: a week ago, where we can collect this thing called 505 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: perceived race data because of course discrimination is about perceived race, 506 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: because no one asked somebody what their races. They just 507 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: perceive a race. But we had to do it in 508 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: a way that was UM consistent with privacy. So it 509 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: took us longer than I wouldn't want admit, and we 510 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: developed a bunch of principles. We said, you know, we're 511 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: gonna anyone who doesn't want to be in this research 512 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: can opt out. UM, we're gonna decouple your perceived race 513 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: from your account, and we're gonna be transparent about UM 514 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: what we're doing with this information and the results. And 515 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: so now we have a way to like follow cohorts 516 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,719 Speaker 1: of data on our platform and then measure the bias 517 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: and discrimination on our platform, and hopefully with that data 518 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: we can then design our platform to be more equitable 519 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: and UM and and create more belonging. I'm hoping there's 520 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: a really big silver lining here, and we're going to 521 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,400 Speaker 1: open source our learnings around discrimination and also even how 522 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: we work to anonymize this data. So this is just 523 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: one of the things we're doing. And I don't say 524 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: this to pat ourselves in the back, because frankly, we 525 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: got issues we gotta work on. But I think we'll 526 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 1: be remembered for what we do, and I think that 527 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: every tech company and probably every company, but every tech 528 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 1: company the world will remember what we did on this issue. 529 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: We can either choose to be a mirror to society, 530 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 1: or we can be a mirror to what we want 531 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: society to look like. Those are those are literally choices 532 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: we have and why wouldn't we make that second choice? 533 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: And why don't we at least try, And so that's 534 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: what we're doing. I'm also very proud of Alexis Sahanian, 535 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: who is a is a friend because some friends with 536 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: Serena williams Um But I am very impressed by his 537 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: decision to, you know, stepped down from Reddit's board so 538 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: that it could be flat filled by a black candidate. 539 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: And can I tell me? Can I tell you about 540 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,400 Speaker 1: who that person is. Do you know him? Yes? Yes, yes, 541 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: Michael right, you know his history with Airbnb? No? No, 542 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: please share. Had it not been from Michael Cybel, I 543 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't be here telling you this story. Michael Cybel 544 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: um is um. Joe Night and I started Airbnb, and 545 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: I remember telling like people about Airbnb and they thought 546 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: it was like like the worst day they've ever heard of. 547 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: And so we were trying to raise a hundred fifty 548 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: dollars at a one point five million dollar evaluation. Nobody 549 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: wanted that deal. I mean, just like we remember we 550 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: got in True to twenty investors couldn't get raised money 551 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: and we ended up meeting Michael Cybel. We met Michael 552 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: Cybel in March. Now we launched in October Town seven 553 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: and he basically when I was like we were nobody 554 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: and we didn't know anybody, he took us under his 555 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: wing because our roommate, my roommate Joe and I, my 556 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: roommate had was this guy named Phil. He worked for 557 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,800 Speaker 1: a company called Justin Do TV. Michael Cybel was a 558 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: CEO justin I TV, which is the basically the predecessor 559 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: to Twitch with Amasam bought and Michael basically met with 560 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 1: us every Friday, and I'm not exaggaly for like three 561 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: to five hours. We'd go for a happy hour. He'd 562 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 1: take us through a site and we'd be there until 563 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: like late in the evening. And he eventually helped us 564 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: get into y Combinator. And I think that he's probably, 565 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 1: after the founders, the most significant person um in the 566 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: founding story of Airbnb. Um, you know, and I think 567 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: we used to call Michael the god founder because like 568 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: the Godfather, we'd go every week to him everything. Michael, 569 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: we got problems, can you help us? But I just 570 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: wanted to give a shout out to Michael because um, 571 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: you know, he's he he embodies the culture of Silk 572 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: and Valley, you know, he he he didn't want something 573 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: from us and we he said, this is the culture 574 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 1: is a culture of trust and you pay it forward. 575 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: I think that's so. I mean, that's a that's an 576 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: amazing story. But it goes to the Testament and probably 577 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: points out even more so why there needs to be 578 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 1: more open spots, you know, for people of color, black 579 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: people to be on board, you know, ordinarily wouldn't make it. 580 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: So is there another Michael cybel or MICHAELA Cybel somewhere 581 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: who can step onto your board. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. I 582 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about that, Brian, because you know, 583 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: there's a Courts article granted from two thousand and sixteen 584 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 1: that says the dirty secret of Airbnb is that it's really, 585 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: really white. So I'm curious about how you if you've 586 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: managed to change that, and how you plan to continue 587 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: changing it in the future. Yeah. We're part of the 588 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: way there, but not not nearly where we need to be. UM. 589 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: We've just let's start with the board. So probably the 590 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: time that article was written, UM, it was it would 591 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: have been five people on the board. Were three founders 592 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 1: were white guys, and then we had to venture capitalists. 593 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: You know, when you raise money, a VC takes a 594 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: board seat, typically in UM. And so since then we've 595 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 1: appointed four independent board members. UM. Three were women, UM, 596 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: including my former CEO. We have an Mathers. She was 597 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: the CFO of Pixar for Steve Jobs, Audit Chaff, Google 598 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: and Netflix. And then Angela Renz you probably know she 599 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: UM ran Apple Retail. Before that was CEO Burbery, and 600 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,320 Speaker 1: then we added Ken Channel, who was CEO of amex 601 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: um so UM not to make excuses, but we are 602 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: we are trying, but we definitely need to get more diverse, 603 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: even on the board. And so absolutely, I I would 604 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: definitely be interested in US, UM continuing to add a 605 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: couple more people, UM, you know, in time I don't 606 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 1: know win, but absolutely on the executive team. UM. You know, 607 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 1: we UM, we also need to make progress. We UM 608 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: we we we were. We We have set diversity targets 609 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: that we want by the end of next year of 610 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: our board and executive team to be people of color. UM. 611 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: I think I think we can get there for sure. 612 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: UM and maybe we can we can beat that actually 613 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: and UM, and you know, I think that we've the 614 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: last three hires I made to them or women, UM, 615 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: my head of operations, UM, Tara Bunch, she was running 616 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: operations for Apple. And I hired this woman named Katherine Powell, 617 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: who ran basically seventy of the Disney parks. And I mean, 618 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,960 Speaker 1: I would just say from my experience that I can 619 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: say this, UM, a more diverse company is not only 620 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 1: the responsible thing to do, it is actually a competitive advantage. 621 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: UM you know, And I really mean that, like, like 622 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: we we became so much higher performing when we started 623 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 1: becoming more diverse, and we're not there. We're not even 624 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: close to where we need to be. We should at 625 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: least map to the demographics and the country you operate. 626 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,280 Speaker 1: So if you know, like you shouldn't and you could 627 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: be better, but you shouldn't be worse than that. So 628 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: we want to go a lot further. I was going 629 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,080 Speaker 1: to say, given this reckoning that and the movement we're 630 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: witnessing and this realization and wake up call as you 631 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: referred to it, Brian too of systemic racism and what, 632 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: it's just no longer acceptable. I mean, you can't really 633 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: get away without with with not being diverse. I mean, 634 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: not only for all the reasons you just outlined, but 635 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,719 Speaker 1: let's face it, it's just not it's not an acceptable 636 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: look anymore. No, it's and and that is as it 637 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: should be. Um. It probably overdue and and um and 638 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: so that will be one of the one of the 639 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: good that come out of a crisis. Are you embarrassed 640 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: you haven't done more? Brian? Um? I wish I did more. 641 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 1: I wish I did more sooner um and um and 642 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 1: I'm proud of what we have done. Um. I think 643 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: that UM, I think you know, coming like ours um 644 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: mission is built around belonging connection. I think that's like 645 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: really really important and so um yeah, if I could 646 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: it over again, I would have done more sooner. And 647 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: I think that's a good lesson here for everyone, that 648 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: every one of us could be doing more sooner. Bose. 649 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,399 Speaker 1: I think Brian is absolutely right. I think there wasn't 650 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: an urgency to fix this problem before, but there's certainly 651 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: an urgency now and hopefully this will be a real 652 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: moment in time where things will change for the better finally, 653 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: I really hope. So. I mean, we're demanding more of 654 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: ourselves right now, and that's really what matters. Again, we've 655 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: been talking to Brian Chesky, the CEO of Airbnb, and 656 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: that does it for this week's episode of Back to 657 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: Biz with Katie and Bow. If you're not already, you 658 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: can subscribe to the podcast on the I Heart Radio app, 659 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, 660 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: and you can learn more about all the cool people 661 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: were talking to, as well as our favorite moments from 662 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: these interviews on our Instagram feeds and stories. Until next time, 663 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Currik and I'm Bozema st. John and this 664 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:28,520 Speaker 1: is Back to Biz. With Katie and Bo's Thanks for listening. Everybody. 665 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production 666 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Curve Media. The executive 667 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,240 Speaker 1: producers are Katie kurrit bozmus St John, and Courtney Litz. 668 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are 669 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,000 Speaker 1: Derrek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derek 670 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derek Clements. Special thanks 671 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go 672 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,280 Speaker 1: to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow Katie 673 00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: Kirk and both St John on Twitter and Instagram. For 674 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,919 Speaker 1: more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I Heart 675 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your 676 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: favorite shows. So I Want Fresn State, whoever football in Latina, 677 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 1: in San Yankee there, but always keeps k okay There, 678 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 1: cal Hope, Punta La Judas Let's pans will be a 679 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,399 Speaker 1: key in California