WEBVTT - China Considers Musk as TikTok Lifeline 0:00:02.759 --> 0:00:09.880 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:15.680 where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:40.400 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.400 Live from New York. I'm Caroline Hyde and. 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.520 I'm Mike Shepard and Washington in for Ed Ludlow. This 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:42.840 is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:43.519 Coming up. 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:48.280 Could elon Musk be TikTok Savior? China is analyzing the 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:50.440 option to save the social media company in the United 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.240 States and work with the next administration. Plus Nvidia CEO 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:56.880 Johnson Wang goes to China this week as the company 0:00:56.920 --> 0:00:58.960 is slapped with curbs on the sale of its AI 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.440 chips abroad and off to the space race with a 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.520 space infrastructure startup, Lost Orbital out with new funding news 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:09.160 to operate its satellites in Low Earth orbit. But first 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.319 we check in on these markets which have been moved 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.840 around from a volatile perspective. On the positive side, inflationary headwinds, 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:18.800 cooling if you look at some of the wholesale prices, 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:20.520 does that bode well for CPI tomorrow? 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:22.440 But then we have the ongoing. 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.800 Narrative of how we impost harriffs on other countries, in 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:30.000 particular on China in the next administration. We're currently trading 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.440 flat as we have scoop after scoop coming from our 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.200 Washington based colleagues. Bitcoin, though managed to fend off some 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.760 of that risk sentiment. We're currently trading two point two 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.480 percent higher, perhaps more looking towards where we could see 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:42.880 Trump and the next administration. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.039 I in Crypto move on to have a look at. 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.440 What's happening in terms of the individual movers, and I 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.440 go to a key story of the day, were of 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:53.000 course going to be analyzing if Elon Musk could indeed 0:01:53.240 --> 0:01:56.800 take over the US operations. TikTok It is being eyed 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.280 by Chinese officials, but it has its impact on Meta, 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:01.720 which also has been falling lower. I might add because 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.080 if there's some concerns surrounding the fact that well, they're 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:06.920 going to be offloading some of their lowest performers at 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:08.360 a faster rate. We'll get to that in a moment. 0:02:08.600 --> 0:02:11.480 Snap currently off by six percent. If indeed TikTok us 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:15.240 could be staying for longer here in the United States, if, 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.000 of course, by January the nineteenth, it's deemed that it 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:20.639 has to be banned or divested. Could that divestment come 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.120 to one Elon Musk riding to the rescue. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:25.880 Let's get to all of this a Bloomberg Sarah Fryer. 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.160 And Sarah, Where has this narrative come from? That Chinese 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:33.000 officials not bite Dance, but Chinese officials might think that 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.959 Elon Musk could be a good owner of this key 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:37.080 social media company. 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.360 Well, from what our starts tell us, they have been 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:44.679 evaluating the potential options for TikTok. Should the band go through, 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:46.920 which it looks like, you know, based on the Supreme 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:50.320 Court arguments and how that went, then it's very likely 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.600 that that well, we will see the law being acted. 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.359 Elon Musk appealed to the Chinese government because he has 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:05.440 experience dealing with businesses in China through Tesla. He has 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:11.960 a you know, longstanding relationship with that country. The thing 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.000 I want to I want to give pause here on 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.320 is I mean, this is the Chinese government's idea. The 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:20.079 whole point of this entire exercise of you know, trying 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:26.240 to disentangle TikTok from its ownership was to reduce the 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:30.080 links to China. So it would they really go would 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.560 the US government really go with the solution that involves 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.520 somebody that is expected to be friendly with China. Well, 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.280 maybe it won't matter because of Elon Musk's close ties 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.360 to Donald Trump, which is Chinese. Chinese government is also 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.680 seeing as a positive according to our sources. You know, 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:50.480 he he has been at Trump's side day in and 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.320 day out. He gave more than two hundred and fifty 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.440 million in support of his campaign. So it's this really 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.600 complicated web of you know, we're trying to get the 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.560 US is trying to get this app out of connection 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.120 to the Chinese government, and the Chinese government has a 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:09.600 say and how that happens because of the TikTok algorithm. 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.040 So it's getting very complicated, very fast. 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:15.080 Sarah. 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.680 Back to Elon Musk, but more from the perspective of 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.880 him as a social media platform owner already. How would 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:26.520 acquiring TikTok work for him? Is this something he has 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.880 floated before or thought about before? 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.839 And how would he come up with the financing too? 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:36.240 It would be a pretty expensive purchase, Well, it would be. 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.600 It would be relatively insane to do this. I mean, 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:44.080 he just bought TikTok. Sorry, excuse me, he just bought 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.480 Twitter from forty four billion in twenty twenty two, and 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.840 he's still paying off those loans, so he's not very liquily. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:52.840 He's the richest man in the world, but his money 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:55.640 is not very accessible to him. If you were to 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:59.839 buy TikTok or propose such a thing, it would certainly 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:03.839 cost many billions. We don't We don't know exactly how much, 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.440 but some estimates put it around forty to fifty billion 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.560 for TikTok Us. It could it could be a different 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:16.560 price depending on the diplomatic interest and not kind of 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.240 a deal. We don't know yet if TikTok if it 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.599 would be sold, which you know nobody's talking about just 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.920 yet in the company. If it would be sold, then 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:30.440 wouldn't happen in a competitive process or would it be 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:35.120 more of a diplomatic arrangement between China and the US 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:38.039 and the company and whoever wants to buy it. So 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.599 some people are are already working on it. I know 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.839 Franklincort was on your show last week kept with Kevin O'Leary. 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:48.520 They have a bid, so it is. It is something 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:54.320 that could be an Elon Musk financing situation, but it 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.640 could also not even get to that point. 0:05:56.800 --> 0:05:59.880 Briefly, Sarah, the are any of all of this? Some 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.679 other Chinese owned social media companies are doing really rather well. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.240 People are moving off from TikTok potentially to find new homes. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.400 And you go to Apple's app store, what's trending? 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.040 The top apps are from China. And I think that 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.800 this is this is just indicating that the US consumer 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.480 is already embracing multiple Chinese apps. There's She, and there's Timu, 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.320 There's there's a lot of you know, nascent social apps 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:27.760 that are that are booming right now. And so I 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.760 think that this is this is going to be a 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:33.440 whack a mole problem. One of the solutions to the 0:06:33.480 --> 0:06:36.960 TikTok potential band could be that they just rename a. 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.720 New one Bloomberg. Sarah Frear, Thank you. 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.240 Now let's bring in Sarah Krepps into the conversation. She 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.120 is the director of the Tech Policy Institute at Cornell 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:52.280 University in Ithaca, New York. Sarah, this question of TikTok 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:55.640 is coming to a head now. Any buyer would have 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:59.520 to really demonstrate a complete separation from China. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.800 How would they go about doing that? 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:06.400 What would be the process once this sale were to 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.360 actually emerge if by Dance in China agreed. 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.600 I mean, it's such an interesting question, And it came 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:15.360 up in the Supreme Court hearing last week, and the 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:19.240 TikTok lawyer said he did not even think it was 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:25.800 possible to divest or separate TikTok from the owner Byte Dance. 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:28.760 He said it could take years if it's even possible. 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:32.160 So at the same time, the US Solicitor General and 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.040 those same hearings, said that she. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.720 Thought that maybe the Chinese government was playing this game. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.040 Of chicken and might at the last minute float some 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:43.560 sort of alternative. But you know, the TikTok lawyer, I 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.000 think sort of shot themselves a little bit in the 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:49.240 foot in the sense that he said, this is really complicated, 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:53.000 and as your last guest was just saying, essentially, the 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.320 US TikTok is Byte Dance, and the Chinese government now 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.920 stepping in at this stage is confirming what the Congress 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.040 members of Congress thought a year ago and years ago, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.640 which is that there is this Chinese government control over 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.160 a US social media company. It's hard to see how 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.680 you can do that, certainly not by the nineteenth And 0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:13.320 as the TikTok lawyer said, if. 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.240 At all, Sara, how would this fit into the broader 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.920 exchange and relationship between Washington and Beijing over matters including 0:08:21.000 --> 0:08:26.080 trade and other technology related security issues. Is this something 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.720 that China could offer perhaps as a bargaining chip as 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:29.800 Trump takes office. 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:32.080 Yeah, I think it's pretty savvy in two ways. 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:36.800 One is that they're very mindful of the influence that 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.880 Elon Musk has as an advisor in the incoming administration, 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.160 but also that the incoming administration really seems to want 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:50.960 to be making some like opening a door for better 0:08:51.000 --> 0:08:52.160 relations with China. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:53.760 Both of these countries. 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:56.200 In the last several years, including in the first term 0:08:56.200 --> 0:09:00.280 of the administrative Chump administration, technology really was at the 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:03.640 center of this rivalry, and so they've gone back and forth. 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:06.160 And TikTok is emblematic of this rivalry. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.960 But we see this in the chips space, in particular 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.200 in the chip space and AI. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.679 Just yesterday that the Administrator of the. 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.360 White House in the Biden administration, in its last days, 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.599 issued a new policy and AI diffusion policy trying to 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.439 make it more difficult for. 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.160 China to access US made chips. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:26.640 I want to reiterate to our audience that, of course 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.400 no comments have been made by thus far the Chinese officials. 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.080 We know that you know, Musk hasn't responded to this report, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:37.400 and indeed Bite Dots itself has called it fiction. But 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:39.640 I am interested, Sarah, to push us forward. What the 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.959 outcome seems to be of a potential TikTok ban has 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.840 been a movement onto other Chinese owned social media companies. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:48.160 How big a national security issue is that? 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:50.880 Then well, it's interesting to me. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:56.440 Either they don't understand the law or they are banking 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.679 on the fact that it will be just too difficult 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.320 to enforce, because last week on TikTok they were trying 0:10:01.360 --> 0:10:04.880 to push people to Lemonade, which is also Bite Dance owned. 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:07.880 Now they're trying to push people to Red Note, also. 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.400 Chinese owned, and so all of those social media platforms 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.680 would be covered under the law. There must just be 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.840 an assumption that enforcement of this will just be a 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.840 cat and mouse game, and maybe the incoming Trump administration, 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.320 who again seems warm to the idea of or has 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.000 looked and indicated that they don't support the ban, might 0:10:29.080 --> 0:10:31.760 just turn a blind eye to these kind of complicated 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:32.840 ownership structures. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.640 Or what's Red Note or what's Lemonade. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.400 Oh, that's Chinese owned and just kind of stain enough 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:39.920 behind it that something gets to perpetuate it. 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:41.160 But at the same. 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.520 Time, what I think the members of the National Security 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:46.600 risk here was that you had one hundred and seventy 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.720 million Americans in one space and actually to the extent 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.839 that they migrate elsewhere, that's actually. 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.200 A win interesting new Shaoholmshoe or red note, as it's 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:02.000 new known, it seems to be oldganic movement actually going 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.000 over to that particular app it's not related to Bite Darts. 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:07.000 But as you note, Lemonate certainly. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.280 Is so push us forward as to you said, how 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:14.640 difficult it is to disentangle us TikTok from ultimately the 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.440 rest of the parent company. China has some sort of 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:20.120 authority here, even though of course there's not much direct 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.160 ownership of a Bite Darts, but because they can control 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.760 who gets to have access to algorithms sold by Chinese companies. 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:30.800 Do you think in any way the Chinese would ever 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.560 want its algorithm held by US company, whether it's Elon 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:35.680 muscowned or otherwise. 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.320 No, I just don't see that scenario because it's too 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:45.880 lucrative that essentially TikTok is this very sophisticated and very 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.040 effective algorithm, and this is highly valuable to byte Dance, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.040 and there's no incentive for them other than to keep 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.920 operating in the US, but to share any of that. 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:01.400 And so I don't again, Lawyer himself said last week, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.160 I don't see how you can actually disentangle these because 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.720 then TikTok without that ad or algorithm, just becomes any 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.120 other social media platform. 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.520 Sarah Creps, it's great to have your expertise, Director of 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:15.559 Cornell University Tech Policy Institute. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:16.200 Thank you. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.079 Let's just relook at meta shares for a moment. As 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:20.840 I mentioned at the top, the company is planning to 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.600 cut about five percent of its lowest performers. This is 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.760 all according to an internal memo sent to employees now. 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.480 The memo reads, I've decided to raise the bar on 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.920 performance management and move out low performers faster, and of 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:37.480 course coming from CEO Mark Zuckerberg, the memo also mentioned intentions. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:38.960 To backfill these roles. 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.600 This year, all of course with an eye on where 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:43.960 the focus is around AI for the company in the future. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.560 The Biden administration is rolling out measures to boost car 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:59.600 manufacturing and AI development in the US, even as it 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.200 looks to sharpened curbs on Chinese technology and free tea 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.760 up potential restrictions for Donald Trump to enact. Let's bring 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.240 in Bloomberg's Mackenzie Hawkins for more. Mackenzie, You've done so 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:14.320 much reporting over the past year on this wave of 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.760 restrictions on everything from semiconductors to AI technology. 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:23.520 This is the final shot from the Biden team looking ahead. 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.640 Do we see the incoming Trump administration holding on to 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:27.959 some of those curbs. 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.959 So this week we've seen almost a new regulation or 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.840 two every day targeting China's tech industry and trying to 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:37.959 boost Americas and National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan said yesterday 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:40.559 that he does anticipate that Trump will maintain a lot 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.320 of the China contours that Biden is setting up in 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.400 his eleventh hour of his administration. But Trump is a 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.000 wildcard on China and many other things, So it remains 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:50.920 to be seen over the coming months what policies of 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:52.760 Biden's he will keep intact and which ones he'll do 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:53.160 away with. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.480 Just remind us how expansive these new rules are, what 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.839 indeed it includes, because it's not just AI chips. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.440 So the restrictions announced today are actually targeting Chinese automotive technology. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.400 We have restrictions on the import of cars that contain 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.640 certain software and hardware from China, and it's specifically Internet 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.080 connected cars, but that's pretty much every car. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:15.280 You can almost think of. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.559 A car as the BIDE administration does, like a smartphone 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.320 on wheels, and the goal is to prevent China from 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.600 gaining access to Americans' personal data as they travel along 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:28.360 American roads. But this is also a preemptive measure because 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:30.600 there aren't actually that many Chinese cars in the US 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.240 thanks to tariffs of over one hundred percent on Chinese evs. 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:34.760 Mackenzie. 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.920 Looking more broadly, some of these restrictions, including the ones 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.920 in particular unveiled yesterday on AI technology, have started to 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.440 hit a nerve. We heard video really objecting pretty loudly. 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:51.080 Do we expect some of those objections to now really 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:52.720 take hold and have some influence. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.200 So what we saw yesterday was the administration expanding what 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.720 has now been several years of curbs on the export 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:00.560 of AI chips to China and a bunch of other 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.400 nations to the entire world, with caps for specific countries 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.480 and caps for the maximumount that can go to any 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.840 one company. This set off a massive opposition in the 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.240 tech industry, led by Nvidia. His chips are going to 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.920 be the most affected, and absolutely they've been lobbying really hard. 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:18.600 They're hoping that they can get a better ear than 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.840 they feel like they've gotten the Biden administration when Trump 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:24.440 takes office. We saw them put out a pretty heavily 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:28.560 worded statement to kind of nodding toward the Trump administration 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:32.320 having a less aggressive regulatory approach. And even in Vidia 0:15:32.360 --> 0:15:35.680 CEO Jensen Wong said before the curves were officially announced 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.120 yesterday that he is sure that Trump will do the 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.000 right thing. So we'll see what happens. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.120 Putting Megs Mackenzie Holkins, thanks so much for tracking it, 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.360 and let's hone in a little bit more on Nvidia 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.040 and Jensen wom because while Washington is slapping on these 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.520 new curves at a time when Beijing is investigating the 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.240 company's own domestic presence, well, Jensen is embarking on a 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.800 trip to China and it's this week let's discussed being Megs. 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.520 Peter Elstrom to more on this, pieta interesting timing Jensen 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.120 Wang visiting the key capitals. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.560 Very sensitive timing. We know that Jensen Wang is going 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.200 to be in Taiwan this week. He's going to tend 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.400 to party there on Friday of this week, but after 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.440 that we've heard, according to sources, that he's going to 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.800 go over to mainland China. As you mentioned, he's going 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:23.320 to stop into Shenzen for New Year's party we understand, 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:25.440 to celebrate with some of the employees there, and then 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:27.800 his plans are to go to Shanghai and Beijing after that. 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.320 He could still change these plans, as you pointed out 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.520 how this is very sensitive time. It also comes just 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.000 ahead of Trump's inauguration. There's some expectation that maybe he 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.960 would go to that too, But he is building a 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:41.400 more substantial business within China at this point. 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:42.400 They've been adding. 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:46.000 Employees there, especially around autonomous vehicle. So the company had 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:49.640 a bit of a setback, as McKenzie was laying out earlier, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.960 with these new regulations around AI exports that affects in 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.080 Vidia very very directly. They've been outspoken about wanting to 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.040 oppose those curbs, but Jensen Wang is still trying to 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:01.560 build a bridge between some of these different markets that 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:05.359 are so important for his company, Peter. 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.000 One destination that doesn't seem to be on Jensen Wang's 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.280 list right now, is Washington or mar A Lago the 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:17.280 incoming president's base of operations. Do we expect him to 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.560 actually pay a visit, pay a call to Donald Trump? 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:26.560 So many other big tech CEOs have done so already. 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:28.679 So far, I would say, so far, we don't know 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:31.679 anything about his plans to attend either mar A Lago 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:34.840 or the inauguration. As you mentioned, I would, I would, 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:37.119 I would stick a pin in that and see exactly 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.560 what happens. At this point, It'd be very surprising if 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.320 he does not try to build that bridge to the 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.960 Trump administration, as you say, So many of the tech 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.160 companies have done this. Of course Elon Musk has sort 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.040 of led the way, but many, many others, including Mark Zuckerberg, 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.040 have also been trying to build a closer relationship with 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.320 the Trump administration as they come to power and they're 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.479 going to begin and implementing these policies that are so 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.280 important to the companies. And there are very few companypanies 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:03.160 that have more at steak than in Nvidia and by extension, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.120 Jensen Wang. So I'd be surprised if they don't meet sometime. 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.240 Soon, And indeed he spoke with our own ed Ludlow 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.560 last week saying if he's invited, he'd love to go. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:16.159 But Peter, how precedented or unprecedented is it for a 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.320 CEO such as Jensen to be going out to China when, 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.080 of course he is upping his spending on AVS and 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:25.000 R and D do. Lots of other companies when facing 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:28.120 this sort of anti trust issue and indeed political overhang, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:29.200 tend to make visits. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:31.000 Well. 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.320 We see a lot of these companies. Remember it was 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.240 not that long ago that globalization was the standard of 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:38.480 business every place in the world. You saw many of 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:40.800 these business leaders going to China and other parts of 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.399 the world to build whatever kinds of global operations that 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.840 they possibly could. I would say Tim Cook at Apple 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.399 is another one who very regularly visits China. They have 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.200 a huge operation there. Of course, their partner Fox Kahn 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.560 builds most of the iPhones that we use around the 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.959 world in China. Right now they're trying to do more 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.000 of them in India too. But you see Tim Cook, 0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:01.240 Jensen Wang, many other business leaders are going to China 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:05.960 because it's important either for their manufacturing operations, their research 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:10.040 and development, or in some cases, the marketing of their businesses. 0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:12.439 Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom, thank you. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.560 Coming up, data Bricks gets over five billion dollars in 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.200 financing from lenders. We'll have all the details next. This 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:35.640 is Bloomberg software maker. Data Bricks has clinched more than 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:40.200 five billion dollars of financing from lenders including Blackstone. 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.440 Apollo, and Blue Owl Capital. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.000 According to sources, this would be its largest debt RAYS 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.800 to date. Let's bring in Brody Ford for more. Brody, 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.720 what does all this money from this big rays mean 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.399 for the company and how does it help in this competition? 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.159 They are going toe to toe with Snowflake. We just 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.679 had the Snowflake CEO on yesterday. The two companies have 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.560 really locked horns in this space they're in. 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:06.680 Absolutely. 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.480 We've been seeing a lot of headlines with data bricks 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.640 and billion numbers, a lot of big numbers, big headlines. 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.280 You might say, what's going on here? The answer is 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.359 that in a different reality, if we were in twenty 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:20.480 nineteen twenty twenty, data bricks would have been public already. 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.120 But there's a trend right now where these big startups 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.760 data bricks canva figma. They're pushing the label a startup 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.800 a little bit by staying private quite long because they're 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.919 able to access these huge pools of funding from private institutions, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.840 and so Data Bricks often talks about the virtues of 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.239 remaining private a little longer, right, they're able to do 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.480 things like make big acquisitions or higher aggressively. 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:43.280 They say that a. 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.720 Lot of these AI startups their monetization didn't work out, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:48.439 and so they're going to try to either bring in 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.399 the right people or bring in their technology. This allows 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.159 Data Bricks to one offset some of the tax burden 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.359 from employees selling their shares, and two just continue to 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.760 invest in the business in a pretty aggressive way. 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:02.280 And that's what's so interesting. 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.080 That they're alleviating the tax burden for employees this liquidity 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.680 moment they can satiate with the secondary market. 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:10.879 They don't need IPO effectively. 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:14.520 Their funder raise last month was IPO size. They raised 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.080 ten billion dollars, you know, right, And the fact that 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.280 they then have to raise five billion in debt to 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:22.320 help their employees offset tax burden shows you just kind 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.600 of the garganguin scale of data breaks at. 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:27.119