WEBVTT - The Interview: Steve Burke of GamersNexus 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:03.960 Alz Media. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.600 Hell and welcome to this week's Better Offline. I'm, of 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.080 course your host ed Zittron and for this week's episode, 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.080 I flew out to North Carolina to do a longer 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:13.960 form interview, the first of it's kind on the show, 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.480 a little slower, a little more fun, and I did 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.000 it with Steve Burke, founder and host of gamers Nexus, 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.599 an incredible hardware YouTube channel that's been going since two 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.360 thousand and eight and has over two and a half 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:27.000 million subscribers. We talked about the history of gamers Nexus, 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:30.680 the state of the hardware industry, tech journalism, gamers Nexus 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.240 is incredibly scientific approach to hardware testing, and of course 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.199 a little bit about AI. I think you're going to 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:50.600 really like it enjoy. So how long has the channel 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:52.600 been running? How long have you been doing this? Now? 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:55.840 About seventeen years and five months. 0:00:55.960 --> 0:01:00.319 And we started off just doing gaming content. I did 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.560 go back in the files and found like a Modern 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.160 Warfare trailer I think, and then the Office Space parody, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:05.920 which is awesome. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:06.759 Yeah. Yeah. 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:12.440 So it started as game reviews and trailer analysis videos, 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:16.360 which was the Modern Warfare one and battlefield trailer analysis 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.760 that was like a whole subgenre. Back then you got 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.640 the trailer, you kind of picked apart what's going to 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.200 be in this game? And you know, then I did 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.600 game interviews. We spotlighted a bunch of indie games through 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.960 Steam's green Light program, and it kind of slowly got 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:31.560 into hardware. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.960 What was Greenlight? Is that? Like? Is that kind of 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.080 the early early access. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.480 Yeah, that was Steam's thing where they gave indie developers 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.399 who are unestablished kind of a way to try and 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:42.199 get onto Steam. 0:01:42.760 --> 0:01:44.840 And so we did a lot of early coverage of games. 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:48.120 Yeah, I saw you doing a lot of convention interviews. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.920 How did you grow from there to where you are today? 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.160 Which is said huge studio and massive testing facilities and such. 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.280 The interviews and the stuff at the conventions was kind 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.600 of the turning point for me because I was up 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:02.400 until maybe twenty twelve or something like that plus and 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.200 minus year, I was still technically in college. And then 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.959 I went to I went to pas Penny Arcade XPO. 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:13.799 I think I went to the twenty ten to one, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.440 and after I got home from that, I decided, this 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.200 is kind of the only thing I want to do 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:20.640 go to stuff like this, And so it took me 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:22.520 two years but you know, eventually just dropped out and 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.200 then yeah, then just started doing more of those, and 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.200 it was it was the best way. First of all, 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:32.240 they're just fun, but then secondly it was sort of 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.880 how I started actually meeting the people we would end 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:36.920 up working with in the hardware industry. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.919 Right, and did Well, how'd you get into testing? Because 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:42.560 I found one of you, I think your first viral clips, 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.800 which was the testing a power supply with a paper clip, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:45.200 I believe. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.920 Oh that was the that was to jumpstart a power 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:51.160 supply to yeah, test it, yeah, to make sure it works. 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.280 So how did you move into that? Because it it 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.120 seemed like it took a minute to get there. 0:02:56.360 --> 0:03:00.960 Yeah, so I think around So I started the site 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.640 in two thousand and eight, I think officially, and then 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.280 got into publishing PC build guides in around twenty ten 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.040 or so. So that's when the hardware really started. And 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:16.160 I'd already been building computers but hadn't actually really published 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.919 much about it, So start publishing build guides. I think 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:20.919 it was just as simple as those were the first 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.519 thing that had any kind of like readership because it 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:26.840 was all articles back then, right, and so they were 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.360 so you started out writing yeah, exclusively, and then the 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.280 channel got added in two thousand and nine, but it 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:36.240 wasn't treating you know, YouTuber was not that's not a 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.160 job in two thousand and nine like that. Yeah, it's 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.720 a little before you like you had maybe Casey Nystadt 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:42.680 was at the front edge of that. 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.640 Yeah, I think I think it was like maybe Vine 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.120 was it was, it was still around when did Vine 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.400 pop up? Christ it was still asl but no back then, 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:52.680 so you were just on the fringe of this new content. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:53.840 Yeah, and it was. 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:56.880 I did not start a YouTube channel with the intent 0:03:56.960 --> 0:04:00.960 of making it a job, because I don't. If you 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.520 go on Internet archive, I didn't actually even remember this 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:06.320 until recently. And you look at the gamers Excess website 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.160 and you go to the about page from like two 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.000 thousand and eight or nine or ten, you'll see that 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:14.840 somewhere in those really early years, I had said that 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.560 we were running it without any form of banner ads, 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.280 which is actually true today too. We got rid of 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:26.039 the ads when we reintroduced the website recently. Right, But 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:31.800 like point being, you don't do that having no revenue 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:34.480 unless you aren't really thinking about trying to make it 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:35.360 a sustainable thing. 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.159 Right, it was purely for fun. 0:04:37.400 --> 0:04:40.279 And how did it become a sustainable How did it 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.320 become your main job? 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:42.479 Yeah? 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:47.280 I think as YouTube grew basically, so we were kind 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.039 of in the early We weren't the first sort of 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.719 i'll call it generation of YouTubers who were able to 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.320 successfully make it a job, but I would say we were 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.840 maybe in the next generation right after that. And so yeah, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.920 I started publishing more videos alongside the articles. So it 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.919 really was with case reviews computer case reviews, where we 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.080 would originally just focus on only writing a case review. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.400 At some point, I'm saying we a lot. For a 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.520 while it was just me and then every now and 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:19.360 then it'd be soone to. 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.640 Help, but we would do case reviews. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.520 And then I realized this would do well with video 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.760 because there's depth to it and there's like just a 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:34.039 lot of mechanical stuff, and those videos started doing pretty okay. 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.000 And did you move away? When did you move away 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:37.800 from the website, because I know you've come back to it. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:43.240 Yeah, we probably around twenty I think around twenty eighteen 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.400 maybe is when I kind of like mothballed it basically 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.360 for a couple of years. And that was just because 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.560 at that point, we had just moved out of the 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.280 house and into an office and then into the first office, 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.320 and there was just too much content flow on the 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:05.960 video side. And up until that point, I was the 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.840 only one who was capable of maintaining the site and 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.279 publishing to it, not because it was a special skill, 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.359 but because the website was so completely fucked up and 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:16.600 cobbled together because. 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:18.320 I didn't have a CMS or anything it did, but 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.360 I built it like, oh so right, okay, yes. 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:24.359 So I had a CMS, but I had stuff bolted 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:25.839 onto it over twelve. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.440 Years classic CMS. Shit. 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.440 Yeah, and I'm not a professional web developer. 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.080 And don't worry, most CMS developers on either. 0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:37.760 Yes, that was something I came to realize. And so anyway, 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.880 it's just more and more, you know. 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:41.880 All the pieces were falling off the car while I 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:44.400 was driving it, and eventually I was like, I can't, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.000 I can't, Like I have to just do one thing 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.719 and YouTube is not a platform I need to maintain, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:55.719 which is good and bad. Yes, but yeah, we kind 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.159 of put the website on ice for a while and 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:01.400 then it wasn't until Wendell for Level one Text eventually 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:03.760 approached me and he was like, hey, I'm a web 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.960 developer actually, and he really wanted us to get our article, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:13.679 our content script preserved in article form again, right, because 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.680 he's worried about just the loss of information you know 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.040 through video, right, And so he set us up to 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:21.720 where now people on the team like Jimmy are able 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:22.720 to maintain the site. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.040 That's really cool. Yeah, and you've brought it back though 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.840 you're somewhat more fun Like is it do you ever 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.360 see the website growing into more of a media outlet 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.480 or is it just and is it just you writing 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:34.960 it as well? 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.040 Yeah, it's just us, you know, it's the same team. 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.480 It's the it's basically the video scripts that the team 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:44.040 rights converted into an article and so sometimes like it's not. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.640 Going to read as naturally as a pure article. 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:52.480 Might, but we try to adapt it and if there's 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.640 any right now to me, it's like sort of a 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.880 community resource where I know for us, at least internally, 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:03.840 it's way more useful to have words, right, you. 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.600 Know, just skin through and control app than a video. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.520 But also just like preservation wise, it's easier to preserve 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:11.960 articles and videos. 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:16.960 Are you how is YouTube as a platform though, is it? 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.280 Are you a slave to the algorithm so much do 0:08:19.320 --> 0:08:21.880 you try and appeal to it? Do you just make content? 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:27.280 I think their YouTube has a platform. There's a lot 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.840 of ways to feel about it. For me, it's it's 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.199 almost like asking me how I feel about water at 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:35.800 this point, right, you know, it's like, how do you 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:36.440 feel about water? 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.800 It's like, well, I mean, if I don't drink it, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:39.200 I die. 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.520 But like YouTube, it's it's not something I try to 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:46.760 game or play to. 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.520 It's basically just a fact of life, right, you know. 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.760 It's like it's it's there, and I have to think 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.920 about it, and every now and then I'll probably complain 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:59.120 about it. But realistically, I personally, I think it's kind 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:03.600 of a fool's errand to chase quote unquote the algorithm 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:09.120 too much because it kind of stifles and takes focus 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.800 away from the thing that actually matters, which is the content, 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.480 you know, and so like, yeah, there's things you can do, 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.000 like you can play with the thumbnail or the title, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.240 but what I really wouldn't want to do is change 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:23.640 the actual type of content that's been produced just for 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.240 algorithmic purposes, because I think that that also creates kind 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.599 of like a almost like a black hole of creativity 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.400 where you stop producing the content for the purpose it 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.080 was intended and you start producing the content to be 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.840 a farm. To use your phrase, at that point, become 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.920 basically a slave to the algorithm where you can't escape it. 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:45.560 Once you start doing that, I think. 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.920 Yeah, at that point, you'll coverage is just dancing for 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:50.360 somebody else who changes their mind constantly. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.040 Right exactly, because it's you no longer know who the 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.640 viewer is. And it's impossible to know what YouTube wants 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.280 because YouTube doesn't know what it wants. You could probably 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:02.880 ask a YouTube bene near a pointed specific question right 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.000 about the algorithm and they would probably tell you they 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:05.360 don't know. 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.600 So and has that has your experience with them being 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:10.000 chaotic or is it? 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:10.760 Uh? 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:15.520 No, because believe it or not, they don't talk to us. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.360 So, I mean, I've heard content creators who do argue 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.280 with them. I've heard ones that don't talk to them 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.720 at all. It's interesting to hear, especially your your two 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.199 point six million this I think so yeah, that they 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:27.120 don't interact. 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.320 Yeah, So there was a period where they would assign 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.680 basically a channel rep to you, and so I would 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.120 get on a call, I don't know, somewhere around maybe 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.400 it wasn't the high hundreds of thousands of subs, And 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.320 that was kind of cool because like, Okay, if something 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:48.280 catastrophic happens, like let's just say, I don't know whatever, 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:50.679 I get locked out of my account because I fudge 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:52.640 the password too many times, something stupid like that, Right, 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.280 like I at least have someone I can talk to. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.440 Those people were rotated through. 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.040 Revolving door basically every three or four months, so right 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.040 when you start to know the person and they can 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:05.960 help you, they're gone. And that was by design, I think, 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:09.600 as far as I understood it, that program got killed. 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:14.960 We don't have a REP now, which is normal, and 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.960 and the best I have is a a liaison. He's 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:20.880 called and he's a great guy. He's very nice. It's 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.760 not really his job, you know, to help us, but 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.560 he does it because he's a nice guy, and so 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.040 he's like the guy for like dozens of creators. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.479 Yeah, it's just so bizoved to me that there isn't 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:35.840 a specific rep with with other people. But like a 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.160 rep whose job it is to kate, you would think 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.520 that your entertainment talent on some level, you'd. 0:11:42.320 --> 0:11:45.280 Think they'd want to be available to help, and I'm 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.040 sure if you asked Google they would say that they 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:49.880 do want to be available to help, and they are 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:51.800 and you can tweet at them, you know. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.719 Yeah, great. Yeah, but that's the weird thing about these platforms. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.160 It does feel like they're like they benefit as much 0:11:58.160 --> 0:11:59.320 as possible while providing. 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.000 So the revenue share is public, you know, for ad 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.079 Sense YouTube ad Sense, so tho's the ads before after, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.480 in the middle of videos whatever. I think it's forty 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.240 five fifty five, with them getting forty five percent. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.400 For perspective something like Steam. 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.320 I'm not an expert on this, but the last nieber 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.040 I saw was something like thirty percent for Steam, and 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:23.760 I think it's very able dependent on them for them, yeah, 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.920 for them, So you know, YouTube certainly benefits. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.679 They to argue in their favor, Hosting videos is unbelievably expensive, 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:33.800 so I get it. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:34.760 I didn't know that. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:36.800 Yeah, yeah, well the split's pretty high. 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.480 I'm okay with it, Like I actually, I'm fine with 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.320 it with them getting forty five percent or whatever. It 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.240 is a bad sense because they don't impose restrictions on 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:49.600 things like us selling our own ads, right, So it's 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:51.920 like I don't really care, you know, and I don't 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.760 care if people block ads on our channel or whatever. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:54.720 I don't give a shit. 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.800 But like the I think it's it's only if if 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.520 they ever overstep and they start restricting what you're allowed 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.960 to put in your content in a way that beyond 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.440 like I don't know, whatever they have their own rules 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.640 about like hate. 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:10.439 Speech and stuff like that. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.600 Right, it is fam Yeah, but like in terms of 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.120 if they start restricting, let's just say they decide, yeah, 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:19.200 you're not allowed to sell merch without giving us a cut. 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:21.679 No, then I'd have a big. 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.800 Propool style is the YouTube way you make most of the. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.319 Revenue in one way or another. Yeah, I mean YouTube 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.000 is the reason it's possible to do any of this 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.840 because I was doing it as articles only, and YouTube 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.240 didn't really become a focus until I said, like twenty 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.440 eighteen or so as a primary source. 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.240 And so yeah, through. 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.920 Mostly merchandise sales on our store, through Patreon support, which is, 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.080 you know, the monthly donations from viewers, and then sort 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.839 of after that it's like ads we sell. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:59.120 And then ad sense right and wait, so you spent 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:02.319 like a decade mostly just writing pretty much. 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:06.880 Yeah, probably probably till I would say, like till twenty fifteen, 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.040 very seriously focused, not only writing. 0:14:09.120 --> 0:14:12.240 Yeah, so was that your full time thing? Did you 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:13.360 have other jobs as well? 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:19.960 I did several side quests? Yes, I would collect side 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.640 quests from local business owners, you know, like Greeting's adventure. 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.160 I need a local website. Can you build that for me? 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.000 It's a living, as they say in the Flintstones, it's 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:35.040 and let's actually get really not necessarily super specific. But 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.400 what's your history, like, without getting to biographical, like how 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:40.360 did you come in to do? Are you? Were you 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.320 just naturally interested in this? Was this just a childhood thing? 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.000 I guess depends how far back we go. 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:50.880 But gaming was always an interest and continues to be 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:54.480 an interest, of course, I don't know. I mean the 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:57.280 first game I played was probably Lemmons. 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.160 Hell yes, yeah, hell yes Humans for me? Yeah yeah, 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:06.480 like first Lemmings game, yeah yeah, hell yes. Now I'm 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.119 so you were primarily a PC gamer though, yeah. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:09.200 For sure? 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.920 Yeah so Lemmons, and then there are some other ones 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.800 back then, and uh I played a lot of nes 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:18.440 S nes N sixty four game, keep all that stuff, 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.720 a lot of Nintendo eventually. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:21.400 Got a PS two as well. 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:24.480 But but after the N sixty four era, so like 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:25.560 early two. 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.080 Thousands was when I built my first computer. 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:34.120 Right before that, I was playing games like Command and Conquer, 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:38.280 Red Alert, yeah, and things things of that nature on 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.000 what you know. This was back when every family had 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.480 a quote unquote computer room, right, yeah, like there was 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:47.920 a room for the computer. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.760 Or a nook in Mike England's so small. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.520 Right yeah, but like point being where it's just like 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.480 this is the this is the dedicated computer area for 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:57.640 the computer, this household chair. 0:15:57.880 --> 0:15:58.120 Yes. 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.400 So I played games on that built computer, you know, 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:08.080 early twenty penny and four and remained interested, and I 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:10.920 guess I started really getting more interested in the coverage 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.240 when we don't feel free to ask a file up 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:15.280 if you're interested in this. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.400 But basically I was running like a gaming guild like 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:20.640 group of friends, you. 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.280 Know, nice So well, what were you gaming together? Is that? Yeah? 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:29.240 Counter Strike, Source Age, Evampires three ever, request, things like 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:30.240 that you played? 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:30.720 Request? 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:31.240 Yeah? 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:32.080 Whatsoever? 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.400 I think I was on Kurana, I was on the Raith, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.240 I was moving. I think Karana merged into the race. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.640 I went on storm Hammer as well. I paid the 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.720 extra It was not worth it, man, oh, good to know. Yeah, 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:46.440 same scars. 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:48.800 Then I interviewed Brad McQuaid. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.760 I have a long and storied history of being a 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:56.000 problem for Sony online. Statement asking like the one British 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:59.880 journalist who asked any questions about this game, I got 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:00.640 in lots of trouble. 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:02.520 Ever, ever quest I remember buying it. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.040 When I bought it was when it was sort of 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:11.680 demonized in some media as yeah, and also though specifically 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:13.600 as like the don't there was like some kind of 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.280 devil worshiping, like whatever, kind of like D and D. Right, Yeah, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:19.760 D and D got the same treatment. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:21.640 They didn't, but they didn't seem to have a problem 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:23.960 with the fact that getting to level fifty was a job. 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.840 Right you had to work eight hours a day. Yeah, 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.000 Oh god, so you had this guilt? 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:31.320 Sorry? 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:36.040 Yeah, And long story short. The website I had built 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:39.360 for that group of friends with a forum that had 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.360 all these gaming guides on it, we worked. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.720 Very hard on. As you know, we were pretty at 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:44.160 that point. 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.199 We were mostly high school early college age at the 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.800 at the highest end, and everyone put a lot of 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.240 effort into making these guides. And then at one point 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:58.399 the website was hacked by just some common CMS breach, right, 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:01.560 and I didn't know how to to restore from backup 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.040 and didn't really know what I was doing, so I 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.840 lost all the data. And so you could imagine for 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.440 a group of like teenagers, losing gaming guides is like devastating. 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.360 Yeah, it's like here, like my life's work. A guy 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:14.960 for how to rush and Asian Vampires. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.440 Yeah, oh my, well, I mean that was game e 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.639 fa ques there, I guess, but yeah, if you were 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:22.240 making your own, they can't have been that good on 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:23.040 game efic hues. 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:23.760 Yeah. 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:26.520 So the Library of Alexandria that yeah, sorry. 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.199 Yeah, yeah, so we lost that and that's when I 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.640 made a new website and that was the Gamer's next 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:32.200 to site. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.960 So so you're all self taught then pretty much? 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:36.359 Yeah. 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:40.359 I mean self taught in the sense that there's not 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.840 a lot of formal education, not self taught in the 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:47.960 sense that the people I've worked with over the years, 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.760 especially engineers in the industry, are the ones who actually 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.439 taught me a lot. Yeah, right, but nothing formal, I guess. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:54.119 Yeah. 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.200 And it seems that something I've noticed with your coverage 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.600 and actually the surrounding channels is it seems like people 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.000 in hodware are relatively generous with that time, like there 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.760 are some people who want but like a lot of 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.760 the scientific people seem very key to it and want 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.000 to help and make sure there's understanding. 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:09.919 Yeah, I think so. 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:12.920 I think people like the person who comes to mind 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:16.239 immediately is Tom Peterson, who currently works at Intel, used 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:17.040 to working on video. 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.600 But he's the type of guy where. 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.240 When you talk to him you can tell he's not 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.160 in it because he's trying to sell Intel's or previously 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:31.119 on videos product. He's in it because he likes the technology, right, 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:33.399 And so people like that, I think they tend to 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.119 be happy to just share yeah. 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.280 Which is really cool. And other YouTube channels as well 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.800 seem like Lewis Rossman around Box, they seem like very 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.760 they want to collaborate, which is really cool. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.680 Yeah. Yeah Rossman and Steve from hard run Box. I've 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:46.440 done a lot of videos with Yeah. 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:50.640 You're having fun, yes, because there's a lot of cynicism 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.560 and kind of depression in media because of the job environment, 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:55.919 but there's also even above that seems like just a 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.520 depression around the work, but it doesn't. It seems more 0:19:58.600 --> 0:20:01.879 fun what you're doing, and they indeed throughout the hogware people. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:06.159 I think it's one of the things I kind of 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.240 really actively spend a lot of time managing, is trying 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:15.560 to make sure there's a cadence to the content where 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:18.040 we actually just did this recently. I kind of look 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:19.280 at it and it's like, all right, this is We've 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:21.600 had a lot of heavy stuff recently. We had tariffs 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:25.359 into black Market, into Bloomberg, you know whatever, and so 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.560 then we switched to publishing more folks on reviews methodology. 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:31.600 I ran a review of a toy story. 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.200 Computer which I've seen and it's insanely cool. Yeah, I 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.280 actually kind of I don't know how good it is inside, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:37.199 but I love the look of it. 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:38.879 Fine, I had problems with shipping. 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.360 But but the point being, you know, we we do 0:20:42.480 --> 0:20:48.359 try to, like I try to manage what the tone 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:53.000 of the content is and for how long, because you 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.119 just you don't want to lose the fun of it, 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.920 you know, And so yeah, I would say I would 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.720 say also, even when it is a story that might 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.360 be more maybe categorized as depressing, so like if you're 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:06.720 covering some kind of corruption or something in the industry, 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:09.280 there is still. 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.480 Fun to the job. 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:16.639 Of covering that thing where like the fun part is 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.520 not necessarily the topic. It's the trying to piece together 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.320 something that's like really complex and figure out how to 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:24.400 explain it to anybody. 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:27.760 I mean, the GPU tariffs, the tarrist one and the 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:32.119 GPU black market stuff was very seemed like it probably 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:33.720 sucked a little of your soul out, but that looked 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:35.480 like fun. It looked like a fun ben. 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.760 Is I mean, the tarist one, you know, it was 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.240 It's a story that there were people we spoke to 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.679 who are very negatively affected, and you feel for those people. 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.520 And that part is sad if you, you know, put 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:51.080 yourself in that position. But then on the the kind 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.120 of keeping it fun for yourself covering it side, if 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:56.760 you really just kind of step back and look at 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.920 it's like how fortunate can you be to for your 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.640 job be like I'm going to get on a plane 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.040 in twelve hours, you know, and fly and then I'm 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.119 not going to know where I'm going next until I 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.560 get there. Like that on its own is pretty fun. Yeah, 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.959 And that's it's very privileged to be able to do 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.280 that and know that at the end of it it's 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:17.360 going to be fine, you know. 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.359 Right, And so those and those trips were kind of 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:21.440 semi chaotic. 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.360 Then they're very chaotic. But that's like, that's why it's 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:25.840 fun because you. 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.439 Got to was it Hong Kong and you immediately like 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:30.520 got a price sheet for GPU. 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:30.920 Yeah. 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.439 Yeah, we were speaking with some suppliers and so we 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:37.400 had a price sheet. Yeah, we went to we went 0:22:37.440 --> 0:22:41.119 to China for that trip. We met a guy we 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.960 weren't planning to meet. He was mister five in the 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:45.640 video and he was awesome. 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.480 And where do you find these? Is it people come 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:51.040 to you? Are they connections? I realized YOUNI laterally you 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:52.200 probably can't onnset. 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:56.440 But normally I normally I have a source for kind 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.480 of the first link in the chain, right, and then 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.679 it just kind of develops. You meet a person, you 0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:05.400 hopefully leave a good impression with them, and then they 0:23:06.000 --> 0:23:07.600 might say, you know, hey, I know someone who might 0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:09.320 be interested in talking to you, and you kind of 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:11.280 go from there. And I think the biggest thing is like, 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:17.560 and this is kind of challenging sometimes, but learning to 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:21.119 to kind of roll with it where I operate at 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:25.119 a relatively high level of anxiety in terms of preparedness, yeah, 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:28.080 you know, and so to have a wrench thrown in 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:29.879 where it's like, hey, you might be interested in meeting 0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:32.840 this guy. I'm like, well, like my schedule is really 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:35.520 I have figured it out. You have to be willing 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:36.320 to deviate from it. 0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.000 Yes, that's the only way to there's kind of any 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:40.000 good broadcast work. 0:23:40.080 --> 0:23:41.000 Yeah, and you pulled it off. 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.679 It's good. So you've got quite an operation here as 0:23:44.720 --> 0:23:46.720 well around how many people work. 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:48.520 With you day to day. 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:54.440 It's five to five to ten total day to day, 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:57.120 so it just depends you know who's doing what each. 0:23:57.080 --> 0:24:00.200 Day, right, And then mostly around editing the videos and stuff. 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.480 A couple editors slash camera operators. 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:08.480 We have a couple of writers slash testers, so kind 0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.679 of like if you're testing the product, you're probably the 0:24:11.680 --> 0:24:14.560 one who's going to write the review that often makes 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.160 the most sense, not always, but and then editors often 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:20.040 will shoot the b roll they need because they kind 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:22.399 of they hit a clip, they realize they need something. 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:24.200 Yeah. And then we've got. 0:24:25.960 --> 0:24:29.480 A remote researcher as well who's been contributing to some 0:24:29.520 --> 0:24:30.600 of the new stories coming up. 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.840 Very cool. Yeah, and how long does the video take? 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:36.560 Putting aside the obvious ones like the tarist one, which 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:38.639 I think a little bit different. How long does it 0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:42.000 take to get a review together, or like any particular video. 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.280 A review of I can give you actual numbers. A 0:24:45.280 --> 0:24:50.359 CPU cooler requires forty hours of testing work where there's 0:24:50.400 --> 0:24:54.480 some kind of manual involvement from the technician, so that 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:57.040 if we have one cooler, that's going to be someone's 0:24:57.119 --> 0:25:00.000 job for one week basically, right and so right now, 0:25:00.080 --> 0:25:04.119 that'll be Mike typically running those tests, and then the 0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:07.760 actual So if I write that review, it probably takes 0:25:07.800 --> 0:25:09.760 me two hours to write it, you know, it takes 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:13.560 me the runtime plus ten or twenty minutes to film it, 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:18.320 and then because you obviously have whatever mistakes that you know, 0:25:18.359 --> 0:25:21.800 you do retakes right, so runtime plus hundred twenty minutes, 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.400 and then the editors I would say they typically take 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:28.400 about eight hours to complete a relatively simple review edit 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:30.320 plus some camera work. 0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.480 So a cooler review you might be. 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:36.200 Somewhere in the range of fifty to max maybe sixty hours. 0:25:36.800 --> 0:25:38.320 And then something. 0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:42.760 Like like the black Market video. If you don't count 0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:46.680 my time, so if my time is zero, I don't 0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:48.520 remember exactly how many hours we had in it. 0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:48.879 It was. 0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:51.680 I know if you count my time it was over 0:25:51.720 --> 0:25:55.040 three hundred hours. Jesus, it might have been more like 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:58.960 four hundred. But and then the ASRock motherboard video we 0:25:59.040 --> 0:26:03.120 just did yeah on CPU failures and Azrok boards. That 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:06.959 one was like with editing and filming time, I think 0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:09.080 that was two hundred and forty hours. So like, that's 0:26:09.080 --> 0:26:12.160 an example of a content piece that we will lose 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:15.800 money on, but it's like it's subsidized. First of all, 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.400 I don't care because I want to do it. Secondly, 0:26:18.600 --> 0:26:21.240 you do have to pay for it somehow, and so 0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:23.880 for us, we basically we raised so much money from 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.600 the black market video, I'm able to go, Okay, that's paid. 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:29.240 For, you know, moove me through that situation. 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:32.000 Yeah, which the Azrok thing. 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:35.520 So the Azrok thing is they have some kind of 0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:38.679 yet unknown issue that is resulting in the death of 0:26:38.840 --> 0:26:42.800 CPUs expensive ones, and people don't know exactly what it is. 0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:45.320 They haven't been entirely forthcoming about it. It seems like they 0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:49.000 don't know what the fuck's going on. And so we 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:53.199 got a viewer's motherboard that had killed the CPU and 0:26:53.359 --> 0:26:55.800 did a bunch of diagnostics. This was one of the 0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.879 instances where we couldn't come to a conclusion, and we 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.439 decided let's just like, let's just publish everything and maybe 0:27:01.480 --> 0:27:02.560 someone can use it. 0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:05.040 As the company being communicative of they been trying to 0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:05.679 fix things. 0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:09.520 They appear to be trying to fix things, just not 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:12.879 very successfully. I would not say they've been communicative like 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:14.960 they haven't. I don't think they've done a good job 0:27:15.000 --> 0:27:17.439 at telling their customers what's going on. 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:20.399 Right. So, how is your relationship in general with the 0:27:20.400 --> 0:27:23.639 hardware manufacturers you mentioned the Intel. It sounds like you 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.560 have some people who are friendly and yeah, others. 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:27.280 Yeah, it depends, you know. 0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:31.400 I'm sure you've worked with enough people where the people 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:35.560 are often different from the company in terms of the stance, 0:27:36.320 --> 0:27:41.119 and it really depends person to person. But generally speaking, 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:46.000 the companies are able to maintain a fairly open line 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.720 of communication and be relatively mature about even criticisms because 0:27:49.760 --> 0:27:54.800 normally the people actually in between us and their bosses 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.080 are pretty good at their job, right, you know, And 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:02.679 so like there's a guy at who he's incredible at 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:06.080 what he does because and I really don't think consumers, 0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:08.680 I think a lot of people don't know this job 0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.560 role exists, but it's really important and the role is 0:28:11.600 --> 0:28:16.199 effectively to be like the translator between outside criticism and 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:17.320 internal action. 0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:19.879 Right right, So not quite a PR role, but like 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:22.040 a developer. Not quite developer really. 0:28:22.200 --> 0:28:26.760 It's almost like like tech marketing maybe yeah, but like 0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:30.879 they're not really marketing in the traditional sense. But so 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:32.320 the guy at AMD, he does a really good job 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:34.880 because he's told me how if we have a criticism. 0:28:34.960 --> 0:28:38.360 I asked me to what happens internally, and he said, well, normally, 0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:40.960 like marketing might go to him and kind of be like, 0:28:41.080 --> 0:28:43.240 what the fuck, Like why did Steve say this? Or 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:46.640 hardburn boxed or whoever, which is covered by Steve, I guess, 0:28:46.840 --> 0:28:48.840 but they might ask why did the Steve say this? 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:53.760 And it's his job to figure that out. And he 0:28:53.840 --> 0:28:55.560 was telling me he normally just asked them, well is 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.760 it true? Right, And if they say it's true, then 0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:01.360 he says, well, then make it not true by fixing it. 0:29:01.520 --> 0:29:03.240 See, this is the thing I've run a p off of. 0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:05.480 And it's like when clients come to White they say that, 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:08.320 I'm like, and many times said why did you do that? 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:08.800 Right? 0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:10.880 And they say, well, it's not a fair I'm like, 0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:12.960 how is it unfair? Because if you can explain to me, 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:14.800 I can go and get this fixed, right, you have 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.440 to explain to me for and it is interesting that 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:18.560 that role has to exist. 0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:21.120 But yeah, I mean, if it's just a communication problem, right, 0:29:21.160 --> 0:29:24.480 if they're like, well, it's it's true, but we didn't 0:29:24.720 --> 0:29:27.920 we don't like it. Yeah, right, so it's got to 0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:30.400 be a real reason. But yeah, most of the companies, 0:29:30.440 --> 0:29:32.920 the relationship is fine. 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:34.360 When they generally take criticism. 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:38.840 Well, the people who interface with us take the criticism well, 0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:42.400 because it's just a job. The companies don't always. 0:29:42.560 --> 0:29:44.800 Do you have any executive exposure? Do you know if 0:29:44.800 --> 0:29:45.920 any executives watch? 0:29:46.480 --> 0:29:50.560 I know that Johnson Juan once watched at least part 0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:54.400 of one of our videos, at least because it was 0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.040 communicated to me by someone it works. 0:29:56.800 --> 0:29:58.400 With him, all bold, all caps. 0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:02.200 Ye, I was told that he was not thrilled. 0:30:02.360 --> 0:30:05.200 Oh that doesn't that doesn't sound like Jensen. He's usually 0:30:05.200 --> 0:30:07.520 such a cool head. But do you do you know 0:30:07.600 --> 0:30:09.480 if I don't even need names, but do you know 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:11.280 if there's like a good amount. 0:30:10.920 --> 0:30:12.600 Of them, Uh? 0:30:13.160 --> 0:30:17.560 Sometimes, yeah, I mean we AMD we had a video 0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:21.440 where we were basically like begging them to not fuck 0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:24.520 up the launch of their nine thousand series GPS because 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.040 their competition like no one had showed up for the 0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:31.160 consumer Intel. They were kind of there, but they're like 0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:34.800 not super viable yet. And anyway, I know after that 0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:37.440 video they had emailed us and this wasn't a thread 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.920 I told them was on record, but they'd emailed us 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:44.760 and said, uh, you know, basically their sort of executive 0:30:44.760 --> 0:30:47.840 marketing team had watched it and they did talk about 0:30:47.880 --> 0:30:50.360 the problems we raised, and that's cool. It seemed like 0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:51.480 they addressed some of them. 0:30:51.560 --> 0:30:53.560 Yeah, do you ever try and get interviews with them? 0:30:54.080 --> 0:30:58.360 Yeah, occasionally, I mean, especially if there's like the Asus 0:30:58.400 --> 0:31:03.720 situation with their warranty as context for people has had 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:08.000 an ongoing problem with customer support, where people who need 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:11.920 a warranty field often end up posting online saying they 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:12.440 got screwed. 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:14.760 Is this across the board or with specific things? 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:18.520 Definitely Motherboard. I'm not sure about other categories because I 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:19.000 really liked the. 0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:21.680 Rock Gangs ally, but have had a few listeners say yeah, 0:31:21.720 --> 0:31:24.000 we've got some warranty issues and it's actually I kind 0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:25.520 of wanted to address that with you in the know. 0:31:26.320 --> 0:31:26.840 Well that one. 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.560 I know a lot about the ally specifically yeah, So 0:31:30.400 --> 0:31:33.080 to like close the loop on the executive question, the 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:38.680 Asus thing, I we published a series about the warranty problems. 0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:44.120 We proposed a number of fixes, and eventually I really 0:31:44.120 --> 0:31:46.560 pushed them to let us speak to an executive and 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:50.080 customer support. They put a director of marketing in front 0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:53.200 of us, very very nice guy, yeah, but by his 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.440 job right, And so I kept pushing back in him 0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:58.920 where I was like, look, man, nothing against you. You know, 0:31:59.280 --> 0:32:02.360 you're not the guy. And so they eventually got us 0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:05.440 to the to the right guy, which is something I 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:07.240 try to remember too. 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:10.360 We really try. 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:13.600 To go to executive levels if possible, because if it's 0:32:13.680 --> 0:32:15.640 just some dude who was told to do with in, 0:32:16.280 --> 0:32:18.080 I can't really press him on the decision. 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:20.680 You can't punish him. It's not really his decision making. 0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:23.840 It's company, yeah, and he's not paid enough to like 0:32:24.200 --> 0:32:26.880 deal with it, you know. So so we try to 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:30.440 go above that person. And we did the same with 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:32.480 New Egg. They sat a room. 0:32:32.320 --> 0:32:35.080 Full of like four, I think through four executives with 0:32:35.160 --> 0:32:36.800 us a couple of years ago. 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:40.040 Yeah, so they a lot of times they'll play ball, 0:32:40.080 --> 0:32:43.360 which like credit to them, you know. But the asues 0:32:43.400 --> 0:32:47.240 ally thing, the long story short on that is, we 0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:52.200 had a defect. I want to say it was like 0:32:52.200 --> 0:32:54.880 the joystick or something. We had some kind of defect. 0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.560 We sent it in for actual repair on our unit 0:32:57.720 --> 0:33:03.160 anonymously or you know, as a pseudonym, and they sent 0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:06.120 us a photo of the xtue of the chassis where 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:09.080 there was a tiny nick, like a tiny tiny crater 0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:13.880 that's basically the size of a pinpoint in the end 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:18.400 the edge of the chassis that is purely cosmetic. And 0:33:18.440 --> 0:33:20.840 this is something that like we literally put it under 0:33:20.840 --> 0:33:23.000 a microscope to see what they were talking about. 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:24.760 And they said it wasn't covered. 0:33:24.640 --> 0:33:27.240 And they said that they would have to charge us. 0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:29.000 I forget how much it was. It was like ninety 0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.560 or one hundred and eighty or something dollars goodness to 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:34.800 repair a problem that was unrelated to this cosmetic thing 0:33:35.160 --> 0:33:37.400 and was their fault, and they were trying to use 0:33:37.440 --> 0:33:41.160 it to charge us for the repair. Yeah, so we 0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:45.280 ran that as a story, and you know, I mean 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:51.760 eventually it was handled, but I don't count it as 0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.240 being done correctly if they find out who we are 0:33:54.280 --> 0:33:55.040 and then they fixed it. 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:56.719 That was the thing. Because you said it was anonymous, 0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:00.360 like a dummy thing, right, and I assume you it 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:02.000 with a different card with it, Like. 0:34:02.000 --> 0:34:04.760 I think I bought it from like a retail physical story, right, 0:34:04.840 --> 0:34:05.400 so there's no. 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:08.800 Trace because I like that thing. But now I'm like regretting. 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:09.800 That's a good device. 0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:11.680 But it's like, hopefully it doesn't break. 0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:13.759 Yeah, it's a great device as long as it never 0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:25.600 has a problem. 0:34:25.719 --> 0:34:28.920 So okay, let's change. Let's change tag to the industry 0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:30.399 at large. And I want to talk to you about 0:34:30.440 --> 0:34:33.719 electronic arts because I know you just did a video. 0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:37.800 My whole thing was, how does he get worse? Because 0:34:37.800 --> 0:34:40.239 there's a company they've been dog shit for a while. 0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:41.560 And that's a personal opinion. 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:43.360 I think that's an objective. 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:45.600 Yeah, I mean, look at the Maden franchise. 0:34:46.120 --> 0:34:51.120 I think I don't know. EA is like bizarre to me. 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:52.680 I don't get it. 0:34:53.200 --> 0:34:56.320 I know you can look at their financial reports and whatever, 0:34:56.400 --> 0:35:02.359 but the powers at play and the EA acquisition, it's 0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:08.000 multiple governments through one connection or another. And I think 0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.160 for a lot of people, regardless of what they think 0:35:10.360 --> 0:35:14.319 about social issues, it is just, if you really think 0:35:14.360 --> 0:35:19.560 about it, weird for government or government connected entities to 0:35:19.719 --> 0:35:24.960 start acquiring video game companies and I personally, like, I'm 0:35:25.080 --> 0:35:28.040 very skeptical of it because the US government in particular 0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:33.280 has dragged video games at every opportunity they get for decades. 0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:36.960 It's always like the video games cause violence, you know, 0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:39.720 and it's from people who've probably never played an actual 0:35:39.800 --> 0:35:41.640 game in their lives. 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:43.319 And from one instead of this deal, it's mostly it's 0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:45.040 like Saudi money and PE money. 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:48.640 Yes, So it's yes, So there's private equity. As he said, 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:51.080 there's Saudi money through the PAF and then on the 0:35:51.200 --> 0:35:56.520 US side Affinity Partners, which is helmed by Jared Kushner 0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.440 right to former senior advisor to the President, and I 0:35:59.440 --> 0:36:03.480 think who he just sent over to some kind of 0:36:03.480 --> 0:36:06.840 peace discussion or something, so he's still involved somehow. But anyway, 0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:10.560 so that's the US side where you've got PE money. 0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.799 You have somehow indirectly the US government but through a 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:18.000 former US government official and then his firm, the Affinity Partners, 0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:23.680 has received somewhere around two billion dollars of initial investment 0:36:23.760 --> 0:36:27.200 from the Saudi pif that was a New York Times 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:28.040 report previous. 0:36:27.840 --> 0:36:31.720 So is funded by the other people invested. 0:36:32.080 --> 0:36:35.360 Yeah, And I think if I remember the numbers correct, 0:36:35.440 --> 0:36:37.719 it was close to ninety million dollars out of there, 0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:40.080 one hundred and sixty or so million in management fees 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:45.359 for the last filing was from managing Saudi money. And 0:36:45.400 --> 0:36:49.080 then you've got the PIF from Saudi Arabia working with 0:36:49.160 --> 0:36:52.520 this firm to buy EA Games. One of the things 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.000 we didn't talk about in the video that I just 0:36:55.480 --> 0:36:57.080 I hadn't really thought too much about it, and I 0:36:57.120 --> 0:37:00.960 saw some excellent comments that made me think more about it, 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:07.439 But is that companies like EA Games control a huge 0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:10.320 amount of data that seems inconsequential on the surface. 0:37:10.800 --> 0:37:13.760 It's video game data, Like, right, what is okay? 0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:16.640 So what Let's just pretend there's a clean path for 0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:19.480 the data to exit EA Games and go to the 0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:21.960 US government or go to the Chinese or the Saudi 0:37:22.040 --> 0:37:24.919 rating whatever. Right, Let's just pretend there's a path there. 0:37:26.040 --> 0:37:28.280 They can't really do anything useful with your save game file. 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:33.120 But one of the things that does interest me, and 0:37:33.600 --> 0:37:37.080 I just want to maybe caution here that this isn't. 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:40.799 I don't think there's anything going on here right now, but. 0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:47.920 I think there is the opportunity to abuse anti cheat systems, 0:37:48.440 --> 0:37:52.440 which are like kernel level software in most cases that 0:37:52.520 --> 0:37:57.000 run on the computer. So if you wanted to deploy 0:37:57.080 --> 0:37:59.919 like some kind of root kit with very low level 0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:03.960 access to computers, you could do it through anti cheat solutions. 0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:05.399 Now, I don't think this is. 0:38:05.360 --> 0:38:07.960 Happening right, right, and so I want to make sure 0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:09.520 people know that because you don't want it sound like 0:38:09.520 --> 0:38:11.520 it's some crazy, wild conspiracy theory. 0:38:11.760 --> 0:38:13.800 I'm just saying it's possible for it to happen. 0:38:13.880 --> 0:38:15.640 But I mean there's probably a trophy of dated with 0:38:15.680 --> 0:38:18.600 the EA play or whatever horrible cloud service. 0:38:18.320 --> 0:38:18.680 For sure. 0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:22.879 Maybe they have chat logs that could be useful to elements. Right. 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:26.959 The US government has talked about wanting to bring Gabe 0:38:27.000 --> 0:38:31.600 Newell in for a testimony of some kind to talk 0:38:31.600 --> 0:38:35.680 about radicalization of teens who play video games. 0:38:35.560 --> 0:38:37.560 Right, and they're doing that with the Discord CEO. I 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:39.080 think or they are already did that. 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:41.080 Yeah, And I mean, if you want to go way back, right, 0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:44.560 this has been the circus has been had before. 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:46.719 It was just last time was with rock music. 0:38:47.160 --> 0:38:51.279 Right, So god, I just as just said, it's like, 0:38:51.360 --> 0:38:54.520 I don't know how EA gets worse though, because you 0:38:54.560 --> 0:38:56.040 were sports I don't know if you're a sports fan 0:38:56.160 --> 0:38:56.560 or anything. 0:38:56.600 --> 0:38:57.560 I'm aware of sports. 0:38:57.760 --> 0:39:00.480 Yeah, I said, this is the one of the pigs 0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.759 that buys Madden every year. It has got worse while 0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:06.200 also staying the same. And I don't know, I mean, 0:39:06.280 --> 0:39:07.799 the only way for them to make it worse is 0:39:07.800 --> 0:39:10.839 to just have it steal your money at this point, 0:39:10.960 --> 0:39:13.560 just actually go through your Walter. I just don't have 0:39:13.719 --> 0:39:16.920 they spoken of their plans for the company other than using. 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:22.920 AI Yeah, great, this is why you should film to expression. 0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:26.759 Yeah, just the the revulsions like you melt it. Yeah. 0:39:28.040 --> 0:39:30.319 And that most of the debt, it looks like he's 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:32.120 going to it's sort of most of the revenue is 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:33.160 going into the debt as well. 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:34.960 Yeah, I think it's I think it was like a 0:39:35.000 --> 0:39:38.560 twenty billion dollar debt or something that they have to 0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:40.520 pay down relatively fast. I don't remember how much pre 0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:42.640 you're off the top of my head, but it's it's 0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:47.520 enough where not sure exactly what the game plan is. 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:50.600 But the current CEO, who's remaining in the CEO at 0:39:50.680 --> 0:39:52.760 least right now, I think his name is Andrew Wilson, 0:39:52.800 --> 0:39:56.920 I want to say, has stated that they have plans 0:39:56.920 --> 0:40:01.640 for use of AI EEA, and I think the as 0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:07.279 a whole have stated use plans for agents AI agents. 0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:10.399 The very real thing that exists, great stuff fucking EA. 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:12.959 So that's how they do it. They become a AI 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:17.319 and it sucks even harder. But let's change topics to 0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:22.200 another weird acquisition investment. Intel, how do you feel about 0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:23.960 this in Nvidia Intel situation? 0:40:24.800 --> 0:40:28.520 I think the Nvidia Intel US government situation, Yes, it's 0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:32.680 really weird. I am not I mean I don't like it. 0:40:34.000 --> 0:40:38.040 I think I understand the US government's interest. I'm sure 0:40:38.480 --> 0:40:42.560 they look at it as absolutely a national security asset. 0:40:43.080 --> 0:40:46.280 It's our only way we can even dream of making 0:40:47.200 --> 0:40:51.640 relevant competitive chips in America. And so if for some 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:55.600 reason you needed a local resource to do that, Intel 0:40:55.719 --> 0:41:00.200 is it. So I get it, But at the same time, 0:41:01.600 --> 0:41:03.799 the way it came about is kind of bizarre to me. 0:41:03.880 --> 0:41:12.520 Where the timeline of events was. Trump says Intel CEO 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:18.040 lip Putin is quote highly conflicted, and that the only 0:41:18.120 --> 0:41:20.719 resolution to this problem of being highly conflicted would be 0:41:20.719 --> 0:41:24.560 for him to resign. The reasoning it seemed for that 0:41:25.600 --> 0:41:29.719 belief of being highly conflicted is pasted or current investments 0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:34.120 by Intel's current CEO in Chinese companies, including some which 0:41:34.120 --> 0:41:36.960 I have Chinese military ties. So that's my understanding of 0:41:37.000 --> 0:41:41.520 that event. Immediately following that, within days, well within one day, 0:41:41.520 --> 0:41:45.080 Intel respond publicly. Intel CEO within days gets on a plane, 0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:48.799 meets Trump. Now they're friends. Trump says it, calls him 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:54.799 a success. And then shortly after this, you know, you're 0:41:55.160 --> 0:41:57.560 on this this roller coaster, Intel stock the whole time 0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:00.160 plunges when he says he needs to resign. 0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:01.480 It's skyrockets, you know. 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:04.880 And then shortly after all that, the US government is 0:42:05.880 --> 0:42:10.239 effectively acquiring ten percent of Intel, right and yeah, I mean, 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:13.879 and on then video side, after a couple of weeks 0:42:13.880 --> 0:42:18.160 after this, Stop and Video is acquiring five billion dollars 0:42:18.200 --> 0:42:20.040 worth of Intel, which I think is around four percent 0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:21.400 or something according to Reuters. 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.520 So I just I don't really know. 0:42:26.000 --> 0:42:29.680 I guess my answer is, ed, I don't know what's 0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:30.719 happening anymore. 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.160 And that's kind of where I've come down in this whoop, 0:42:33.160 --> 0:42:35.560 because it's not clear what happens next. They're going to 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:37.839 do something together. Do you think they're going to keep 0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:40.080 making the elk GPUs or is that because they haven't 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:41.359 said they're going to stop making them. 0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:45.680 I think they're at risk. I that was a that 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:47.239 was an unintentional pun. 0:42:47.400 --> 0:42:50.880 Very few people will get no, I loved it nice. Yeah, 0:42:51.000 --> 0:42:54.560 I think there is some risk there. So, like the 0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:56.560 stated plan is that they're going to work together on 0:42:56.680 --> 0:42:59.759 X eighty six, which is an ISA and instruction you know, 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:05.120 architecture that is used in CPUs, and they want to 0:43:05.120 --> 0:43:07.200 work together on x eighty six solutions, which there's not 0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:09.920 a ton OF's. There's a lot of ARM there's Intel, 0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:11.879 and there's AMD for x eighty six for the most part, 0:43:11.960 --> 0:43:16.040 some via but and they also are planning to work 0:43:16.080 --> 0:43:22.120 together on envy Link integration, which was Nvidia's actually effective 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:23.319 solution was that. 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:25.200 They go through Mellano's acquisition. 0:43:25.440 --> 0:43:29.239 Mellanox is their networking infrastructure, right and envy Link is 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.640 there sort of on board, although now it's expanded, but 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:37.959 basically PCIe alternatives. Oh okay, so so PCI Express wasn't 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:40.799 doing it, friend VideA. This is actually one of the 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:43.879 areas where it's not just all marketing bullshit, Like envy 0:43:43.880 --> 0:43:46.399 Link serves a real purpose. It does a real thing 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.360 and and they need it. And so they're going to 0:43:49.400 --> 0:43:55.680 work with Intel to integrate this protocol into other products 0:43:56.000 --> 0:44:02.600 which will make end videos. GPUs more lolliable on CPUs 0:44:02.840 --> 0:44:04.160 like x eighty six CPUs. 0:44:04.400 --> 0:44:06.239 Right, do you think there could be a good thing 0:44:06.280 --> 0:44:08.560 about this? Could that actually be a positive? 0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:12.319 It'll definitely be better for Nvidia's solutions. I mean, if 0:44:12.320 --> 0:44:14.040 you want to look at it purely in a vacuum 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:18.560 of ignore literally all business and all competition aspects and 0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:21.960 look at only the product level, their product should be 0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:27.040 better as a result of it. In theory, I think 0:44:27.040 --> 0:44:31.560 there's risk to both and the end to Intel here. 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:34.000 So in particular, something that's interesting that a lot of 0:44:34.040 --> 0:44:37.800 people don't know is the mobile the laptop side of 0:44:37.840 --> 0:44:42.319 the business where this is another stated goal of NVIDI 0:44:42.400 --> 0:44:44.920 and Intel is they want to make laptop hardware, so 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:47.480 they want to make silicon with RTX chiplets, which is 0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:51.080 a tiny piece of silicon for the the sc or 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:54.440 the CPU. And on the laptop side of the business, 0:44:54.560 --> 0:44:58.480 the entire industry aligns to end Video's schedule. So if 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:01.880 Nvidia and Intel previous we're both launching a CPU and 0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:03.920 this just happened at about the same time they launched 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:05.440 a cp in a GPU between the two of them, 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:10.000 the vendors will align to Nvidia's GPU, meaning all of 0:45:10.080 --> 0:45:14.520 the marketing effort, the money, the sampling, the review guidance 0:45:14.600 --> 0:45:16.240 where you know they will get in touch. 0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:19.319 With reviewers and educate them on the new architecture. 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:25.400 All of that basically happens around Nvidia's timing because Nvidia 0:45:25.560 --> 0:45:31.960 sells units, right and so because of that, if Nvidia 0:45:32.120 --> 0:45:35.040 is suddenly, you know, if they launch a new GPU 0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:38.479 for mobile right now, Intel and A, it doesn't matter 0:45:38.480 --> 0:45:41.320 which CPU is in it, MSI or Asus or hpuor 0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:43.919 the Nobo or Dell. They' launch their notebook with whatever 0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:46.840 CPU doesn't matter. The Nvidio GPUs the part that matters 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:52.200 to them. If Nvidia is working with Intel, then suddenly 0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:57.120 it would seem that there's motive for them to leverage 0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:04.839 allocation of GPU Silicon with the intent being to get 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.879 more Intel Nvidia co branded. 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:10.839 CPUs deployed in notebooks. You see where I'm going with this. 0:46:10.840 --> 0:46:13.520 Yeah, because this is kind of a long tail thing. 0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:16.680 But it's like the old ms DOS situation, Yeah, where 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:20.040 OEMs just ultimately went with dot because could Nvidia push 0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:20.680 down prices? 0:46:20.719 --> 0:46:24.080 I su moor, Well, I mean they they historically have 0:46:24.160 --> 0:46:26.920 been I don't know. 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:31.440 I guess you'd say maybe revolted against an EVJ situation. 0:46:31.600 --> 0:46:33.359 But we've covered plenty of vendors in the past. I'll 0:46:33.360 --> 0:46:34.680 just name them now because it's been long enough. But 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:38.399 like a sus, MSI, Gigabyte, and EVJ have all told 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:43.040 us about times where allocation, which is the it's the 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:46.040 pot of gold, right, it's it's how many chips they get, 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:51.640 is withheld or is modulated based on their willingness to 0:46:51.719 --> 0:46:56.040 comply with whatever the current sort of requirements are. 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:57.400 And what would those requirements be. 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:02.239 In the past, it's been stuff like well, I mean, 0:47:02.239 --> 0:47:08.080 on an EVGA side of things, they had always told 0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:12.760 us about being restricted in their ability to design certain 0:47:12.840 --> 0:47:17.440 high end boards that might have like overclocking solutions, engineering solutions, 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:20.160 and so there was there was kind of like a 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:21.000 trade behind. 0:47:20.760 --> 0:47:23.360 The those restrictions happened. They do they need something of 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:24.520 an nvidious. 0:47:24.120 --> 0:47:27.120 Side or well sometimes yeah, but it can be like 0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:31.120 we need you to not do that, or we need 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:34.120 you to sell a certain amount of this priced class 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:36.239 of card. So as an example, there was a time 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:42.200 where we'd reported when multiple sources at EVGA informed us 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:48.640 that the MSRP cards were not actually real, like they 0:47:48.800 --> 0:47:51.160 were going to exist for a short period for launch 0:47:51.680 --> 0:47:55.000 to comply with Nvideo's requirement, and as soon as it 0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:57.240 was no longer a hard requirement to get the allocation, 0:47:57.320 --> 0:47:59.879 they were going to kill the product because they didn't 0:47:59.880 --> 0:48:01.000 have margin. 0:48:01.360 --> 0:48:03.520 And so they effectively had to release something that made 0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:04.120 the money. 0:48:04.360 --> 0:48:05.040 Yeah, basically. 0:48:05.160 --> 0:48:06.680 Yeah, there was one I think we reported on where 0:48:06.680 --> 0:48:09.520 they were making like four box or something, and that's 0:48:09.520 --> 0:48:12.200 on a that was I think that was like a 0:48:12.360 --> 0:48:14.560 three hundred dollars something Boar Christ Yeah. 0:48:14.719 --> 0:48:17.800 Yeah, so this is fairly typical for nvidio. 0:48:17.880 --> 0:48:22.399 This kind of allocation is is their leverage. Yeah, it's 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:25.640 also how they create internal competition between the board partners. 0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:28.960 Now AMD does this too, and so does Intel. I 0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:32.600 think with Intel the differences they don't really have anything that. 0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:34.839 A ton of leverage at the moment, not really. 0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:38.680 Yeah, and AMD, you know, they they also play games 0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:40.960 with allocation. I think the difference is nvideo is just 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:45.200 the difference is if you make nvideo products and you 0:48:45.239 --> 0:48:49.360 make am D products like GPUs, you can lose the 0:48:49.440 --> 0:48:52.160 AMD ones or ten percent of the supply or whatever 0:48:52.520 --> 0:48:54.799 and still be in business. But if you lose the 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:57.719 nvideo ones, you're fucked, right Like business is over. 0:48:58.160 --> 0:49:01.080 So they could use this with CPUs. There could be 0:49:01.120 --> 0:49:02.160 a scenario. 0:49:01.800 --> 0:49:02.800 That is my concern. 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:08.880 Yeah, my concern is if they're in mobile with CPU 0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:13.040 and GPU. Now it's not just they're aligning to Nvidya's GPUs. 0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:17.640 There's again a there's no evidence they're planning to do this, 0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:21.400 but I think I've seen enough historical context to be 0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:24.960 concerned about a possibility where they say, Hey, we'd really 0:49:25.040 --> 0:49:27.200 love it if you would put more of the Intel 0:49:27.360 --> 0:49:30.919 RTX CPUs in your notebooks so that you can get 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:32.360 enough fifty ninety GPUs. 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:35.200 Oh so they will, They'll use one, So okay, now 0:49:35.239 --> 0:49:37.400 I understand. So it's the leverage with other cards that 0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:40.719 they'll use the force of this. Yes, potentially potentially. I 0:49:40.760 --> 0:49:44.239 know that this is and this they've done this for years, like. 0:49:44.360 --> 0:49:46.719 Yeah, yeah, allocation is a is a big lever. 0:49:47.040 --> 0:49:49.320 Do you think they do similar things with the AI GPUs. 0:49:50.239 --> 0:49:51.879 Uh, I don't know. 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:56.320 I don't really talk to because that would be probably 0:49:56.360 --> 0:50:00.719 more like Dell HP like those big enterprise deployers. I 0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:03.880 don't really talk to people there. I mean to me, 0:50:04.000 --> 0:50:05.960 it just seems like this is kind of a company 0:50:05.960 --> 0:50:07.920 culture thing, and this is all this is all me 0:50:08.000 --> 0:50:11.480 speaking from what we've reported on. You know, we have 0:50:11.560 --> 0:50:13.759 some facts for some of the stuff where we've we've 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:17.800 covered it, like with the EVJ situation, but yeah, enterprise, 0:50:17.840 --> 0:50:20.160 I'm not sure how exactly that side works. 0:50:21.280 --> 0:50:25.040 So when it comes to AIGPUS, is there is it 0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:28.160 a limitation of your testing as the way you don't 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:30.319 look into them because it felt like it's the one 0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:32.319 thing I'm like surprised that you haven't dug into more 0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:34.560 with like a one hundreds h one hundreds, Like. 0:50:34.680 --> 0:50:37.239 Yeah, So there's sort of there's like two sides to it. 0:50:37.280 --> 0:50:40.920 There's testing and then there's just reporting on whatever the 0:50:40.960 --> 0:50:45.239 news is. And so the reporting part we did that 0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:51.360 with the black market video. The testing side, I guess 0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:54.080 there's there's like a couple of things that are nested 0:50:54.120 --> 0:50:56.120 with in testing. So we've done a little bit of 0:50:56.200 --> 0:50:59.880 quote unquote AI testing and that was on the RTX 0:51:00.080 --> 0:51:04.160 or six thousand Blackwell GPU. This is something that is 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:06.520 still new. It's not one hundred percent clear to me 0:51:06.600 --> 0:51:10.799 what is a reproducible reliable test, right It's part of 0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:14.760 the problem is if you're testing LLLMS or generative AI 0:51:14.960 --> 0:51:19.680 or whatever, something that makes images by nature of the application, 0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:23.919 it's almost semi it's different every time. 0:51:24.040 --> 0:51:27.280 We would also need a massive cluster to really emulate 0:51:27.320 --> 0:51:29.080 what it is because one A one hundred or eight 0:51:29.080 --> 0:51:30.440 one hundred isn't really gonna happen. 0:51:30.520 --> 0:51:33.480 Yeah, and that's kind of like you can run those tests. 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:39.240 But and this would be a valid request from the audience. 0:51:39.280 --> 0:51:41.919 I think an audience that really cares about it would 0:51:41.960 --> 0:51:43.840 be like okay, cool, So like what about if you 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:46.560 have you know, ten of them or whatever. 0:51:46.280 --> 0:51:48.200 And even then, how do you even practically? 0:51:48.560 --> 0:51:48.759 Yeah? 0:51:48.800 --> 0:51:51.239 And I just I think we can do it, and 0:51:51.239 --> 0:51:55.520 I do think we'll probably integrate some kind of long 0:51:55.600 --> 0:52:00.840 term testing for single GPU boards or dual GP single boards. 0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:05.959 But it's right now, it's so new that to test 0:52:06.000 --> 0:52:13.160 it properly requires a lot of research and a lot 0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:14.480 of sort of trial and error. 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:17.799 Well, so how would you even because with something like 0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:20.440 GB two hundreds or GB three hundred, they've got their 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:23.200 own distinct cooling. You're not going to get a giant 0:52:23.280 --> 0:52:24.759 racking wherever you want. 0:52:24.960 --> 0:52:27.160 Yeah, there's there's definitely a limit. 0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:29.480 And what are you testing for? It's just I've I 0:52:29.560 --> 0:52:31.640 have spoke spoke to a few listeners and like, oh 0:52:31.680 --> 0:52:33.520 what about AIJ why's you know, and it's kind of 0:52:33.800 --> 0:52:35.920 on some level, what would you even be testing? 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:38.360 Yeah, I think that's a big question for us, And 0:52:38.560 --> 0:52:41.759 I think that's where like the most immediate thing that 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:43.839 would maybe make sense for us would be some kind 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:47.600 of consumer level I really hate to call things AI, 0:52:47.760 --> 0:52:51.960 but like AI application. So maybe that's someone wants to 0:52:52.040 --> 0:52:56.040 just buy a fifty ninety or whatever, use it for gaming, 0:52:56.160 --> 0:52:59.360 and then at night they're training something on it, or 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:03.480 they're running some kind of system. That's the I think 0:53:03.520 --> 0:53:07.040 that's the most sensible thing we could test anything where 0:53:07.040 --> 0:53:11.560 you're getting into like actual data center workloads. I it 0:53:11.640 --> 0:53:13.719 seems like the only real source for that stuff is 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:15.560 basically first party at this point. 0:53:15.320 --> 0:53:16.960 And semi analysis to an extent. 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:19.920 Yeah, you spoke with them at all. They've reached out, 0:53:20.160 --> 0:53:22.320 not some analysis, but I know the work. 0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:25.960 Yeah. I mean it's a good news Letterum just cure surprise. 0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:28.879 They haven't the depth they go into. But let's talk 0:53:28.920 --> 0:53:31.799 about AI. Actually, how do you feel about AI? Like 0:53:32.040 --> 0:53:34.600 you you don't do a ton about it? Yeah, which 0:53:34.640 --> 0:53:36.400 is fine, it's just how do you feel about it? 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:38.520 And what? Why haven't you done more? 0:53:39.160 --> 0:53:39.279 That? 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:40.480 Not as a negative. 0:53:40.680 --> 0:53:45.640 Yeah, most of the coverage we've done has been news based, 0:53:45.760 --> 0:53:47.880 so it might be reports, you know, it might be 0:53:47.920 --> 0:53:50.919 like an investigation or whatever, but but not a lot 0:53:50.960 --> 0:53:54.720 of I don't know, like testing, like we're talking about 0:53:54.880 --> 0:54:00.359 the biggest problems I have with it right now are 0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:03.439 First of all, I think if we go like really 0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:06.799 big picture, I don't know to qualify everything. I think 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:11.400 there are use cases for things like LMS. The best 0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:15.640 use case I have that I've actually used is translation 0:54:16.360 --> 0:54:19.880 where I speak other languages, and I use Google Translate 0:54:19.920 --> 0:54:22.880 for most of that. Because Google Translate is a dumb translator. 0:54:22.960 --> 0:54:26.480 It translates the words you type into it. Sometimes that 0:54:26.520 --> 0:54:30.799 doesn't work for a colloquial phrase, right right, So if 0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:33.319 you take any idiom, it's not really going to do 0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:38.080 that well through Google Translate. Something like chat GPT makes 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:40.840 it a little easier sometimes to search for like really 0:54:40.880 --> 0:54:46.640 specific colloquial or idiomatic ways to express something. So I 0:54:46.640 --> 0:54:50.759 would say that's like a real use case. You can 0:54:50.800 --> 0:54:54.680 also be deep down there, Yeah, but it is like 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:57.200 the specific thing that they're kind of built around, so 0:54:57.520 --> 0:54:58.279 they do it well. 0:55:00.160 --> 0:55:01.120 I think the. 0:55:02.560 --> 0:55:04.600 With that qualifier out of the way, the big picture 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:11.239 concerns I have with AI are weaponization of things like 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:16.680 LMS to propagandas and so this could be for companies 0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:19.640 to market products, it could be for governments, it could 0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:21.240 be for unknown entities whatever. 0:55:21.560 --> 0:55:23.759 But having seen the bot comments on. 0:55:23.800 --> 0:55:26.799 Videos you know every day, is that the problem? It 0:55:26.840 --> 0:55:29.040 is a very consistent problem, and they're getting better. 0:55:29.200 --> 0:55:30.240 So what are they doing? 0:55:30.520 --> 0:55:33.600 So originally it started as the really obvious ones. There 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:36.319 were kind of two kinds. There's the bots that do 0:55:36.400 --> 0:55:39.320 financial scam scams where they basically. 0:55:40.640 --> 0:55:45.160 Post something about like some cryptocurrency, right, some scam coin. 0:55:46.560 --> 0:55:49.800 The other one would be the bots that have a 0:55:50.160 --> 0:55:54.319 photo of someone's ass, you know, and then three emojis 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:58.520 and some text about whatever. And that's the more like 0:55:58.600 --> 0:56:01.239 traditional trying to scam. Some went into interacting with a 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:04.800 fake user that presents themselves as an attractive person. 0:56:05.680 --> 0:56:07.200 So those are the two common types of bots. 0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:10.359 Historically, those have been really easy for a savvy user 0:56:10.400 --> 0:56:13.520 to identify because yeah, it's like it's always the same language. 0:56:13.600 --> 0:56:16.680 It's like the old old you know, Nigerian prints email 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:19.000 scam right right, you can read it and you're like, 0:56:19.000 --> 0:56:22.040 I know this is a scam. But where it's going 0:56:22.120 --> 0:56:24.479 now kind of concerns me because there have been times 0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:27.000 where I'm not sure if it's a bot or a 0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:29.520 real person, right, And there was one recently I just 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:33.680 banned from the channel that originally I thought it was 0:56:33.680 --> 0:56:37.319 a user because I forget what the message was. But 0:56:37.360 --> 0:56:40.480 it was like, I wonder what Steve and Wendell think 0:56:40.520 --> 0:56:44.520 about blah blah blah, And it was clearly polling stuff 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:47.040 from the title and or the transcript of the video 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:48.800 and then create an account. 0:56:49.080 --> 0:56:51.080 And I left it alone for a minute to see 0:56:51.080 --> 0:56:51.680 where it would go. 0:56:52.320 --> 0:56:55.040 And there's like replies under the thread where it's a 0:56:55.040 --> 0:56:58.200 bot replying to itself through different accounts I guess, uh, 0:56:58.600 --> 0:57:01.080 and eventually just tries to you off site to go 0:57:01.520 --> 0:57:04.360 you know, get scammed. So I banned all those accounts. 0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:08.879 But the thing that was concerning was was that it's 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:13.640 pulling context from the video transcript and forming a sentence 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:19.000 that makes sense, right, and then creating the appearance of 0:57:19.080 --> 0:57:22.880 a real dialogue between the appearance of real users about 0:57:22.880 --> 0:57:23.720 this subject that. 0:57:23.680 --> 0:57:26.120 Made sense to then scam someone. 0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:29.720 I've seen these people in blue sky for sure. Yeah, sorry, 0:57:29.840 --> 0:57:31.840 seeing these boots in blue sky where it's just someone 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:33.800 appearing to have a guy. It's like, wow, I read 0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:36.080 that from the thing. Well do you think about this? 0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:36.520 Right? 0:57:36.880 --> 0:57:38.880 I've never seen them get to sending me to a website, 0:57:38.920 --> 0:57:41.360 but I imagine that's that's a few down the change. 0:57:41.400 --> 0:57:42.520 The way it normally happens. 0:57:42.520 --> 0:57:45.240 If you go to like CNBC or any finance channel, 0:57:45.280 --> 0:57:47.560 and you'll see these on any new video they post. 0:57:47.960 --> 0:57:50.520 They all talk so like CNBC is my favorite one 0:57:50.560 --> 0:57:53.640 to look at for this because okay, you'll see and 0:57:53.680 --> 0:57:55.520 it's not their fault, they're just the target of it. 0:57:55.760 --> 0:57:57.920 But you'll see a bot comment that'll say something like 0:57:59.240 --> 0:58:01.880 I have hundreds of thousands of dollars and I don't 0:58:01.880 --> 0:58:05.680 know how to invest it right, right, And it's always 0:58:05.680 --> 0:58:06.680 some ridiculous number. 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:08.400 Yeah, and then there's a reply to it. 0:58:08.480 --> 0:58:12.480 It's like I had excellent luck with John Smith, and 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:15.240 John Smith is the comments like, yeah, they're comments. 0:58:15.440 --> 0:58:18.120 I've seen these in Korra. Okay, it's like, how do 0:58:18.160 --> 0:58:20.440 I invest one hundred and fifty thousand dollars? It's like, well, 0:58:20.520 --> 0:58:23.120 I did it on right oscoin or whatever. 0:58:23.480 --> 0:58:24.160 Yeah. 0:58:24.200 --> 0:58:26.360 But these they'll talk about like the name of a 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:32.360 person and have this fake conversation about some financial advisor 0:58:32.360 --> 0:58:35.439 who doesn't exist, and then you google that name, which 0:58:35.480 --> 0:58:38.080 is fairly unique, right, so that's the only thing that 0:58:38.080 --> 0:58:40.520 comes up. And then it's a website that's a scam, 0:58:41.400 --> 0:58:43.000 and they you know, these. 0:58:42.840 --> 0:58:45.520 Point new ones compared to the original one. 0:58:45.640 --> 0:58:47.840 It's it's less obvious than. 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:54.320 By questionable cryptocurrency or nft on website. 0:58:54.640 --> 0:58:57.960 Yeah. I don't know how you even deal with this. 0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:00.920 I don't know what the solution is other than just 0:59:01.000 --> 0:59:01.880 chutting them all down. 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:04.680 Yeah, the channel owners have to ban them, but there's 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:05.120 too many. 0:59:05.200 --> 0:59:07.439 You get a lot reddit to them, seeing I don't 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:10.080 know if you're active on your subreddit much. I haven't checked. 0:59:10.200 --> 0:59:10.720 Not too much. 0:59:10.880 --> 0:59:13.760 Yeah, I'm in mind too much. But I do catch 0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:19.560 someone occasionally who is just an obvious bar sick host, disgusting. Yeah, 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:22.360 but I just I ignorantly just assumed that they were 0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:24.959 being annoying and they were there to sow discord rather 0:59:25.000 --> 0:59:26.600 than send me to something to buy. 0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:30.440 Right. I think that's the thing too. I forget who 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:31.120 the report was from. 0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:34.040 There was a recent report about something close actually, I 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:37.480 think I saw it re reported and fact checked by 0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:41.760 Kurtzkazak to the channel where it was close to like 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:43.560 fifty percent of Internet traffic is bought. 0:59:44.120 --> 0:59:47.560 Yes, yeah, and that's gonna fuck the ad industry. 0:59:47.760 --> 0:59:50.520 It's gonna be bad for everything because like, fuck the 0:59:50.560 --> 0:59:53.200 ad industry. It's gonna be bad for humanity. 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:53.760 Well. 0:59:53.880 --> 0:59:56.000 Oh, to be clear, I don't care about the idea. 0:59:56.200 --> 0:59:58.360 I'm saying that that's how everything's paid for online. 0:59:58.480 --> 1:00:01.480 Yeah, it'll screw that all screw it's this is like 1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:06.200 Library of Alexandria is on fire. Yeah. Problem like this 1:00:06.280 --> 1:00:07.720 is this is like loss. 1:00:07.600 --> 1:00:12.320 Of of knowledge issues. And I think it's because, uh, 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:15.800 you know, there's there's been a consolidation of sites into 1:00:15.880 --> 1:00:21.360 media forms of media or media for presentation like videos, 1:00:21.400 --> 1:00:24.080 discord things where it's not well preserved. 1:00:24.720 --> 1:00:26.880 And as those. 1:00:26.680 --> 1:00:29.560 Things collapse, because like you said, the ad industry collapses 1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:32.360 or whatever, there's gonna be a loss of information and knowledge. 1:00:32.880 --> 1:00:38.040 The death of the internet. Uh, you know, it's gonna 1:00:38.080 --> 1:00:42.640 happen from the the fact that you can no longer 1:00:42.720 --> 1:00:45.560 tell if you're the only real human in the threat 1:00:45.640 --> 1:00:48.720 or not for the conversation, right, and so you're gonna 1:00:48.720 --> 1:00:51.680 stop interacting at all because you don't know if they're. 1:00:51.560 --> 1:00:52.120 Bots or not. 1:00:52.360 --> 1:00:53.560 You think that this is gonna happen. 1:00:53.880 --> 1:00:55.200 I think it's happening. 1:00:55.560 --> 1:01:00.000 What I don't know is are the companies that can 1:01:00.000 --> 1:01:03.760 control the large platforms incentivized to stop it. 1:01:04.760 --> 1:01:07.320 I wonder because there is a level of, like any engagement, 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:09.520 it's good engagement, but if people don't engage what they're 1:01:09.520 --> 1:01:09.760 going to. 1:01:09.800 --> 1:01:12.720 Do, there might be a tipping point. Maybe right now 1:01:13.360 --> 1:01:15.560 it's something they don't really touch. Like, you know, it 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:19.400 took YouTube and awfully long time to start effectively addressing 1:01:19.400 --> 1:01:21.720 the bot problem, right and they still haven't really done it, 1:01:22.480 --> 1:01:22.959 and so. 1:01:23.400 --> 1:01:25.320 And that was just bot commenters or so views. 1:01:25.640 --> 1:01:26.840 Yeah, well there's that too. 1:01:27.000 --> 1:01:29.400 Yeah, there's I don't know too much about the view side, 1:01:29.400 --> 1:01:34.600 but the bot commentser's side. They it's hard to know. 1:01:35.480 --> 1:01:38.920 Are they dragging their feet on this as a counterintelligence operation? 1:01:39.080 --> 1:01:43.080 If the bots are intentionally really stupid, then they could 1:01:43.160 --> 1:01:47.160 be useful for trying to determine what are YouTube's countermeasures 1:01:47.440 --> 1:01:48.440 to get rid of those. 1:01:48.280 --> 1:01:50.320 Bots so that they can still convent them. 1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:53.200 Right, So you maybe if you're playing YouTube side of it, 1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:57.120 you know, the thought is we don't want to just 1:01:57.160 --> 1:01:59.080 ban these because they're going to figure out our mechanisms 1:01:59.120 --> 1:02:00.400 we use for more important one. 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:02.520 It's exactly you know what, I actually buy that third 1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:04.400 because that's exactly what they did with s E. With 1:02:04.560 --> 1:02:06.440 sh They're just like, well, we couldn't possibly tell you 1:02:06.440 --> 1:02:08.320 how this works because someone would just do it. 1:02:08.560 --> 1:02:10.360 Yeah yeah with Google or Google. 1:02:10.440 --> 1:02:14.360 Yeah, they own YouTube, so it's like Jesus fucking cut. 1:02:14.200 --> 1:02:15.400 And the other thing too. You know. 1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:17.320 There's that, But there's also if you want to take 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:19.680 the more cynical side, the less YouTube side, it could 1:02:19.760 --> 1:02:22.600 be that they want to report high engagement numbers to shareholders. 1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:23.880 Yes, and bots do that. 1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:24.080 Well. 1:02:24.080 --> 1:02:26.360 I mean they did that with by combining Gemini with 1:02:26.400 --> 1:02:28.920 Google Assistance and they had three hundred million I think 1:02:29.080 --> 1:02:31.800 weekly active views or something, right, Yeah. 1:02:31.880 --> 1:02:34.720 So but then the result is there may be a 1:02:34.720 --> 1:02:40.760 tipping point maybe at some point human engagement that's like 1:02:40.800 --> 1:02:43.320 somehow verified, which is scary for a different reason. But 1:02:43.760 --> 1:02:48.760 human engagement becomes almost artisanal. Like the reason you buy 1:02:48.840 --> 1:02:51.640 something from Etsy instead of Amazon. You know, some guy 1:02:51.720 --> 1:02:54.720 made it in his garage. Yeah, and so. 1:02:55.080 --> 1:03:00.560 Etsy full of bots. Now that's ultimate. Do you subscribe 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:02.440 to the whole dead Internet theory? Do you think that? 1:03:03.080 --> 1:03:07.080 I think parts of it are starting to look. 1:03:09.000 --> 1:03:11.400 Practical, Like Facebook, I feel. 1:03:11.480 --> 1:03:14.120 That's my one where it's just like this is like 1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:16.400 old people screaming at their TV at this point. 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:20.680 Yeah, and it's filled with bots that either trick them 1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:23.560 or that and raise them into a response. 1:03:38.720 --> 1:03:40.560 One of my favorite things to do is if you 1:03:40.600 --> 1:03:43.320 go on Facebook and you type in Facebook support into 1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:46.040 the chat bot ah, and you find the groups that 1:03:46.160 --> 1:03:49.200 are people thinking they're posting on Facebook grip and I 1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:51.320 know there's one of them that has like ten thousand 1:03:51.360 --> 1:03:55.640 people on it, and it's people like boomeras. I hate 1:03:55.680 --> 1:03:58.120 to sound out, but it's like people in the seventies 1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:00.440 being like, I don't know how to compute work, and 1:04:00.560 --> 1:04:02.720 three guys from Indonesia responded like, I would love to 1:04:02.720 --> 1:04:06.840 help you. His number from Indonesia, which is Facebook support is. 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:10.840 I mean, it's kind of it is the the basically 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:13.760 there's investment comments like on CNBC I was talking about 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:17.720 where it looks like a real thing, you know, in 1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:21.080 this case, it maybe looks like actual Facebook support, right, 1:04:21.440 --> 1:04:25.919 And the end result is maybe maybe it's someone trying 1:04:25.920 --> 1:04:28.040 to help, Maybe they're enthusiasts, you really know face. 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:31.600 Oh it's all Indonesian scammers. Okay, I've looked through. I 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:34.440 may have spent a few hours of what like just 1:04:34.600 --> 1:04:36.840 I could be doing literally anything else just looking at them, 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:40.640 and it's entirely guys in the Global South just defrauding people. 1:04:41.480 --> 1:04:43.920 Yes, and there's whole channels now that are built around 1:04:44.160 --> 1:04:47.680 scam busting, right, Like I forget the names of some 1:04:47.760 --> 1:04:51.760 of them, but there's like YouTube channels where they'll they'll 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:56.000 walk through kind of the bot scam link. I think 1:04:56.040 --> 1:05:00.960 the AI stuff, the lms, you know, the core question 1:05:01.000 --> 1:05:03.040 of like what do I think of AI? All of 1:05:03.080 --> 1:05:06.760 those can be tools for good things. I think the 1:05:06.840 --> 1:05:11.840 bad things right now are very profitable. It's the dumbest 1:05:11.880 --> 1:05:13.520 bad thing that's profitable as a scam. 1:05:13.920 --> 1:05:16.040 But even then it's not profitable for the AI companies. 1:05:16.040 --> 1:05:18.920 It's profitable for the scammers. It's like the only people 1:05:18.920 --> 1:05:21.520 making money all Jensen Hwang and scammers. 1:05:21.760 --> 1:05:21.960 Right. 1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:26.360 Yeah, And maybe there's I don't know, there's probably some 1:05:27.680 --> 1:05:31.040 like Fortune five hundred company that thinks they're making money 1:05:31.080 --> 1:05:31.360 on it. 1:05:31.400 --> 1:05:32.840 I don't know that I've found. 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:35.200 But no, OK, maybe there's one. No, this is like 1:05:35.280 --> 1:05:38.680 my one hyper focus of like anyone who mentions the 1:05:38.760 --> 1:05:39.920 revenue with AI, I know. 1:05:40.200 --> 1:05:42.880 Well there was one, wasn't there some report that said, 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:46.160 what was it like over ninety. 1:05:45.920 --> 1:05:50.120 No ROI amazing report. Amazing report because you know it 1:05:50.160 --> 1:05:53.040 was good because immediately people said hit piece. The moment 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:55.000 it says hit piece, you know that it's the true 1:05:55.360 --> 1:05:57.840 just people immediately think it's a hit piece. 1:05:57.960 --> 1:05:59.480 Do you remember who the report was by. 1:05:59.680 --> 1:06:02.439 It was by the Nanda lab mit. 1:06:02.880 --> 1:06:03.240 Oh wow. 1:06:03.480 --> 1:06:06.080 And people got really assy about it because they said, oh, 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:08.120 it's just a bunch of interviews, that's how they did it. 1:06:08.160 --> 1:06:09.600 How the fuck do you think surveys work? 1:06:09.720 --> 1:06:10.040 Right? 1:06:10.280 --> 1:06:12.480 And so they spoke to no, they spoke to a 1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:16.600 bunch of Fortune one hundred I think CEOs and people 1:06:16.800 --> 1:06:18.919 really miss reddics. They said, oh, it's a learning gap 1:06:18.920 --> 1:06:22.480 between people using this and not understanding AI. No, the 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:25.000 paper says it's a learning gap because the ais don't learn, 1:06:25.240 --> 1:06:28.080 but no one reads. Okay, but it's it's so strange 1:06:28.080 --> 1:06:31.200 as well, because it's everywhere. But it's also nothing. And 1:06:31.240 --> 1:06:34.560 I mean it feels like there is AI within the hardware. 1:06:34.560 --> 1:06:38.320 Well with like I forget, forget the term the upscaling ones, Yes, 1:06:38.440 --> 1:06:39.439 do those generally work? 1:06:39.520 --> 1:06:42.560 That's actually a really good point. Yeah, so, and. 1:06:42.480 --> 1:06:45.840 That's different to large language books different transform based that's 1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:47.760 that's really good DLSS and such. 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:50.800 DLSS is like a real thing that works and does 1:06:51.080 --> 1:06:54.680 it's good. Broadly it's effective, I mean. 1:06:54.560 --> 1:06:56.280 And that's when it fills in the frames. 1:06:56.040 --> 1:06:57.400 Right DLS. 1:06:57.400 --> 1:06:59.880 So there's kind of like sub technologies they have, but 1:07:01.040 --> 1:07:05.160 broadly speaking, DLSS originally started as just it stands for 1:07:05.280 --> 1:07:08.400 deep learned super sampling, and it started where they would 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:12.800 take ground truth images, meaning like basically we're saying this 1:07:12.880 --> 1:07:16.320 is reality, and I think there were sixteen K resolution. 1:07:16.320 --> 1:07:19.880 They're ridiculously high resolution. They would train on all these 1:07:19.920 --> 1:07:26.040 images and then use that data game by game to 1:07:26.080 --> 1:07:31.200 be able to upscale from a lower native render resolution 1:07:32.040 --> 1:07:35.680 to a higher i'll call it projected resolution to the viewer, 1:07:35.800 --> 1:07:36.320 to the user. 1:07:36.800 --> 1:07:40.600 And that was the original implementation and it is pretty 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:41.000 good now. 1:07:41.080 --> 1:07:44.080 Like it's actually if you need to run at ten 1:07:44.160 --> 1:07:46.920 adp native so that your video card can handle the 1:07:46.920 --> 1:07:50.160 game at a good frame rate but make it look 1:07:50.240 --> 1:07:53.040 higher resolution, a lot of times it works and actually 1:07:53.080 --> 1:07:56.560 two N video's credit, DLSS in some situations can be 1:07:56.560 --> 1:08:00.280 better than native, which shouldn't be possible in theory, but 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:04.200 because of the way they've actually integrated the deep learning 1:08:04.240 --> 1:08:06.000 on it now, which has been rebranded. 1:08:05.560 --> 1:08:06.320 These days to AI. 1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:07.760 Of course what it was called. 1:08:07.600 --> 1:08:10.680 Deep learning because the way they've integrated it, it can 1:08:10.720 --> 1:08:14.120 sometimes reconstruct details that should be there but are not, 1:08:15.680 --> 1:08:17.200 and we've done some videos on that. 1:08:17.600 --> 1:08:19.599 But yeah, that's a use case of deep learning. 1:08:19.680 --> 1:08:22.000 Then that's completely different to the world of laws of language. 1:08:22.080 --> 1:08:23.040 Yeah, it's not an LM. 1:08:23.120 --> 1:08:26.200 Yeah, it's like it has a singular purpose, right, make 1:08:26.280 --> 1:08:28.600 the thing look better, or generate frames to insert to 1:08:28.640 --> 1:08:31.160 smooth it over, and that's overall not bad. 1:08:31.160 --> 1:08:33.080 Also, there's places it's really useless. 1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:36.479 Yeah, But I think also though, the difference is when 1:08:36.520 --> 1:08:40.840 that technology is useless, it's not really harmful, whereas when 1:08:40.840 --> 1:08:44.280 an LM is useless, it is harmful because it's it's 1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:46.160 putting bad information. 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:49.000 Out or just even if it's not being used particularly 1:08:49.040 --> 1:08:52.120 well and someone's just fucking around with it, it's incredibly environmentally damaging. 1:08:52.320 --> 1:08:53.479 That is a great point as well. 1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:56.400 Yes, they a fe your stuff being plagiarized for the models, 1:08:56.520 --> 1:08:56.800 you know. 1:08:56.920 --> 1:09:00.360 For models, Well, I know I did a there was 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:02.920 a great one where I did a Google search and 1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:07.160 I searched for the release date of a product, and 1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:09.720 you know, Gemini spat out in a. 1:09:09.720 --> 1:09:11.600 Year and it was wrong by two years, and I 1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:14.080 was like, what the fuck? And I clicked to see 1:09:14.120 --> 1:09:16.759 what its sources were, and one of its top source 1:09:16.880 --> 1:09:19.200 was us, and I was like, what the fuck? Did 1:09:19.240 --> 1:09:19.960 we screw that up? 1:09:20.040 --> 1:09:21.559 Yeah? Like what ended up happening? 1:09:21.680 --> 1:09:24.800 So I went to our own article and it was 1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:28.639 a revisit we had published two years after the original 1:09:28.720 --> 1:09:31.599 product came out, and we made that clear in the article. 1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:35.559 But it's just looking at the published date and mapping 1:09:35.600 --> 1:09:38.000 it to the product name, and it decided this is 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:40.040 the release date two years later, you know. 1:09:40.160 --> 1:09:41.000 And and so like. 1:09:42.920 --> 1:09:48.200 It learned or took from our content, misrepresented it, misrepresented it, 1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:52.639 and then credited the incorrect information to us. 1:09:53.120 --> 1:09:55.160 So now it also makes it look like I got it. 1:09:55.080 --> 1:10:00.120 Wrong, right, So everyone loses, including the customer. Yeah, it's 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.160 a shame though, but I mean I feel like in 1:10:02.200 --> 1:10:06.240 the whole AI generitive world, your stuff is more valuable, 1:10:06.280 --> 1:10:09.680 the very hands on, very specific work and the very 1:10:09.680 --> 1:10:10.880 hardcore testing you though. 1:10:11.040 --> 1:10:13.400 It's also we're fortunate that it's kind of at the 1:10:13.439 --> 1:10:18.320 front end of like, if we're reviewing products, then. 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:21.080 Someone who's an enthusiast trying. 1:10:20.840 --> 1:10:24.200 To decide on a purchase is still coming to us 1:10:24.240 --> 1:10:26.040 before it's useful in training. 1:10:26.240 --> 1:10:30.160 So I imagine the generative content is kind of antithetical 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:31.960 to the kind of testing you do as well, because 1:10:31.960 --> 1:10:34.240 you can't really fake because. 1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:37.040 Not really, you can't really like generate a review, you know, 1:10:37.040 --> 1:10:37.799 it would be obvious. 1:10:37.880 --> 1:10:41.040 And also you have these massive machines for testing stuff here, yeah, 1:10:41.040 --> 1:10:44.799 which are insanely cool. And actually that's a good question. 1:10:44.880 --> 1:10:46.439 How do you source this kind of stuff? Do you 1:10:46.439 --> 1:10:49.679 buy from industrial because you have like pressure tested, Well, actually, 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:51.520 maybe you could speak to some of the machines. 1:10:51.280 --> 1:10:51.760 Run through it. 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:55.360 Yeah, So yeah, we have a Hemiana Quick chamber, which 1:10:55.400 --> 1:10:59.040 is a sound chamber and acoustic test chamber. We have 1:10:59.680 --> 1:11:03.920 a laser scanner that does three D scans of like 1:11:04.600 --> 1:11:05.880 of products. 1:11:06.000 --> 1:11:07.679 And converted some into three D models. 1:11:07.960 --> 1:11:11.000 We have pressure testers, we have fan testers, cooler testing, 1:11:11.720 --> 1:11:14.760 and then more traditional power supply tester stuff like that, 1:11:15.680 --> 1:11:20.080 and so yeah, generally, the way we go about it 1:11:20.120 --> 1:11:26.280 is we identify a problem. Typically, this is kind of 1:11:26.280 --> 1:11:28.200 the part of the business I work on the most personally, 1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:31.879 is like basically test engineering or design. So we identify 1:11:31.880 --> 1:11:34.760 a shortcoming, which is like this product is claiming this thing. 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:38.280 We are not able to validate or invalidate their claims 1:11:38.320 --> 1:11:40.559 because we don't have the tool to do it. And 1:11:40.600 --> 1:11:43.360 then either I just do some research online and find 1:11:43.360 --> 1:11:46.280 the tool, or you know, sometimes the real challenge is 1:11:46.280 --> 1:11:49.040 knowing the name of a thing and that it exists. 1:11:49.720 --> 1:11:52.599 And so I went through this with current clamps, which 1:11:52.640 --> 1:11:54.240 is just a clamp you put on a wire to 1:11:54.280 --> 1:11:57.400 read the current going through it. A long time ago, 1:11:57.479 --> 1:11:58.920 when I started this, I didn't know that was a 1:11:58.920 --> 1:12:02.759 tool that existed. And it's like magic because you put 1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:06.320 a wire through a client a plastic looking clamp, and 1:12:06.360 --> 1:12:09.559 then through the magic of electromagnetics, it tells you what 1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:12.800 the amperage is. And when I found that, you know 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:17.120 early and it's not a new it's been around forever. 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:19.640 But when it was new to me, I was like, 1:12:19.680 --> 1:12:21.840 holy shit, this is If I only knew the name 1:12:21.880 --> 1:12:24.120 of this thing sooner, I could have bought it. 1:12:24.160 --> 1:12:25.880 And all of your testing is effectively new to you. 1:12:25.880 --> 1:12:27.799 You've had to kind of build it and learn yourself 1:12:28.160 --> 1:12:29.840 with help from right, with. 1:12:29.760 --> 1:12:31.520 A lot of expert help outside. 1:12:31.960 --> 1:12:35.840 And yeah, I would say sourcing it mostly comes from 1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:39.320 either just doing research or we tore a lot of 1:12:40.000 --> 1:12:43.320 factories and engineering facilities and make videos on it, and 1:12:43.920 --> 1:12:47.040 normally when I'm there, I do my best to talk 1:12:47.080 --> 1:12:50.880 to the actual people who use that equipment. And that's 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:52.760 that's kind of how we learned that it exists, you know, 1:12:52.800 --> 1:12:54.880 Like I did a tour recently of a facility where 1:12:55.520 --> 1:12:57.320 they showed us something that they had built for a 1:12:57.360 --> 1:13:00.000 client for testing cooling products. 1:13:00.320 --> 1:13:01.559 And when they. 1:13:01.439 --> 1:13:03.439 Were done explaining it so I could talk about it 1:13:03.439 --> 1:13:06.759 in a video, I said to them, can I buy. 1:13:06.600 --> 1:13:07.280 One of those? 1:13:07.720 --> 1:13:07.880 You know? 1:13:08.080 --> 1:13:12.679 But the yeah, yeah, yeah, they sell it, so that's 1:13:12.720 --> 1:13:13.840 so cool. Yeah. 1:13:13.880 --> 1:13:15.479 And do they come and train you to use it? 1:13:15.840 --> 1:13:16.840 Sometimes you can. 1:13:16.960 --> 1:13:18.680 You can either pay for training or they'll do it 1:13:18.680 --> 1:13:20.400 for free for up to whatever four. 1:13:20.240 --> 1:13:21.000 Hours or something. 1:13:21.040 --> 1:13:23.680 You know. And do you generally operate these machines or 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:24.680 do they train the. 1:13:24.680 --> 1:13:27.960 Crew generally, either I'm the first one to learn how 1:13:28.000 --> 1:13:31.960 to use it, or someone specific on the team might 1:13:32.000 --> 1:13:33.519 be one of the first ones to learn how to 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:33.840 use it. 1:13:34.280 --> 1:13:36.240 So like we had. 1:13:37.840 --> 1:13:41.719 For the laser scanner, it was Patrick on the team 1:13:42.040 --> 1:13:44.760 who ultimately in that case I had tasked him with 1:13:44.840 --> 1:13:47.160 learning how to use it, and he went through he 1:13:47.240 --> 1:13:50.400 documented it you know, and now anyone can use the sop. 1:13:50.360 --> 1:13:52.360 And the laser's kind of you describing to me earlier. 1:13:52.439 --> 1:13:56.160 It's used that to see if there's devotes ye, like 1:13:56.200 --> 1:13:59.400 in the in the cooling you explain. 1:13:59.120 --> 1:14:01.240 I'm surface, I'm doing it terrible job. Now you're pretty 1:14:01.320 --> 1:14:01.920 much right on it. 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:04.519 I mean it's yeah, cooling product has a flat surface 1:14:04.560 --> 1:14:07.080 that needs to contact a piece of silicon. And what 1:14:07.120 --> 1:14:10.080 we're looking for is, Okay, the performance is really good 1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:13.519 or really bad thermally, and we can't look at it 1:14:13.560 --> 1:14:15.920 and figure out why. Maybe if we scan this at 1:14:15.920 --> 1:14:18.920 a microscopic level, it'll reveal something. 1:14:19.400 --> 1:14:20.640 And so sometimes. 1:14:20.200 --> 1:14:24.240 It'll reveal that there's these like deep pits in the 1:14:24.280 --> 1:14:27.360 surface of the metal that you can't necessarily see by 1:14:27.400 --> 1:14:31.160 eye and can really affect the cooling performance. Other times 1:14:31.200 --> 1:14:35.160 you might see a curvature to it where maybe externally 1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:37.040 it's not obvious, but actually when you install it on 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:39.880 the silicon product, say only two thirds of it or 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:43.519 contact in the metal. And so this laser scanner scans 1:14:43.520 --> 1:14:46.320 the surface with the laser and then makes a three 1:14:46.400 --> 1:14:49.880 D model, and we can use that to inspect the problems. 1:14:50.240 --> 1:14:52.800 Do you ever get do companies ever reach out for 1:14:52.840 --> 1:14:54.000 any consultancy things. 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:57.240 They do that all the time. We reject all of it. 1:14:58.520 --> 1:15:02.400 So because it's too much. There's a lot of reasons. 1:15:02.439 --> 1:15:04.479 The core of all of it is it's too much 1:15:05.320 --> 1:15:09.920 conflict of interest, right where let's just like, let's just 1:15:10.000 --> 1:15:13.639 say it's possible to take a testing job, a private 1:15:13.680 --> 1:15:18.519 testing job, and do it with absolutely zero bias towards 1:15:18.600 --> 1:15:19.320 future reviews. 1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:22.120 I just we'll just accept that premise for a second. 1:15:22.680 --> 1:15:25.080 Even under those conditions, I still don't like it because 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:29.559 now I'm putting a weird spot where when that product launches, 1:15:30.479 --> 1:15:32.160 it's gonna be hard for me to review. 1:15:31.920 --> 1:15:35.120 It because you, oh, because you've already seen it. 1:15:35.240 --> 1:15:37.840 I've seen it, and I might have provided input on 1:15:37.880 --> 1:15:39.320 it that they paid for. 1:15:39.280 --> 1:15:40.320 If I'm involved. 1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:43.320 Right, So, now, like let's say I'm not happy with 1:15:43.360 --> 1:15:45.800 their execution, What am I gonna go say? 1:15:45.800 --> 1:15:47.280 I told them so, right, Like. 1:15:47.280 --> 1:15:49.639 That's not how much can you reveal? And even then 1:15:49.800 --> 1:15:52.000 I mentioned the trade secret so brilliant. 1:15:51.720 --> 1:15:53.120 You probably end up under an NDA. 1:15:53.960 --> 1:15:55.920 The best approach to that would be to recuse yourself 1:15:55.920 --> 1:15:58.680 from reviewing it at all. But then the problem is, 1:15:59.120 --> 1:16:01.280 like now I can't do my job for consumers. 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:02.439 Yeah, how good is the money on? 1:16:02.520 --> 1:16:02.920 I like? 1:16:03.280 --> 1:16:03.840 Yeah? 1:16:03.960 --> 1:16:07.000 And I also think it just cannibalizes the process where 1:16:07.439 --> 1:16:10.400 you're taking things that would make excellent public videos and 1:16:10.439 --> 1:16:13.479 public data, and you're presenting it privately to never be 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:14.320 seen by anyone. 1:16:15.000 --> 1:16:18.559 Right And by the nature of these agreements, I imagine they 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:20.280 could obfiscate your coverage on some level. 1:16:20.280 --> 1:16:20.880 I would think so. 1:16:21.160 --> 1:16:25.200 And also it's just, yeah, you're taking the thing that 1:16:25.280 --> 1:16:27.479 made you desirable to do the testing to begin with. 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:30.400 You're doing it privately, so it's not public, So the 1:16:30.479 --> 1:16:33.479 desire to have you do the private testing reduces, right, right, 1:16:33.520 --> 1:16:36.280 Like it seems like it's just a sort of self sabotage. 1:16:36.320 --> 1:16:38.840 But how do the hardware companies feel about you having 1:16:38.880 --> 1:16:40.120 such high level testing? 1:16:40.600 --> 1:16:43.160 Most of the people think it's cool, right, you know, 1:16:43.600 --> 1:16:48.679 I think the I'm sure a lot of them don't care. 1:16:49.680 --> 1:16:53.880 I know that some of the company representatives have told 1:16:53.880 --> 1:16:58.040 me how they'll be more careful with how they market 1:16:58.080 --> 1:17:01.799 certain things if they know we're gonna yeah rocks. 1:17:01.880 --> 1:17:03.320 I actually genuinely love that. 1:17:03.560 --> 1:17:04.080 Yeah. 1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:06.080 So, and that's not just us, you know, there's other 1:17:06.120 --> 1:17:09.360 reviewers who also do an excellent job. And because the 1:17:09.400 --> 1:17:14.200 review community. People kind of specialize in different areas. I 1:17:14.240 --> 1:17:17.479 think it just sort of collectively keeps companies somewhat on 1:17:17.520 --> 1:17:21.320 their toes. But obviously you know the company is going 1:17:21.400 --> 1:17:21.799 to company. 1:17:22.000 --> 1:17:36.479 Yeah, they will shit about regardless. What is a kind 1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:38.120 of testing you can't do right now that you want 1:17:38.120 --> 1:17:38.879 to in the future. 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:45.559 I would say the probably the the Well, so there's 1:17:45.560 --> 1:17:49.800 one we can do, but it's not really practical, and 1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:54.439 that would be basically more frequent transience testing. So there's 1:17:54.439 --> 1:17:58.599 something with power delivery. I know you've been studying lately 1:17:59.760 --> 1:18:03.400 where where there's transient spikes and so on a GPU 1:18:03.439 --> 1:18:03.960 or a CPU. 1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:04.599 This would be. 1:18:04.680 --> 1:18:10.719 A basically microscopic spike in the current or the power 1:18:10.720 --> 1:18:14.640 consumption right for really like normally like one hundred microseconds 1:18:14.720 --> 1:18:15.120 or something. 1:18:15.400 --> 1:18:17.200 We can test it. We've done in the past. 1:18:18.320 --> 1:18:21.920 But because if you're capturing data for seconds out of time, 1:18:22.120 --> 1:18:26.840 down to scales of thirty microsecond gaps or whatever, the 1:18:27.160 --> 1:18:29.519 amount of data is enormous, it's really hard to process. 1:18:29.520 --> 1:18:31.439 It's like a storage and processing problem. 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:33.320 Yeah, it's a major processing problem. 1:18:33.360 --> 1:18:35.120 And what would you want to be so is that 1:18:35.479 --> 1:18:37.639 if there is, what would those spikes mean? 1:18:38.040 --> 1:18:42.080 It would help us to stay on top of especially 1:18:42.120 --> 1:18:48.080 GPU manufacturers, but also CPU if if there's sudden spikes 1:18:48.080 --> 1:18:50.000 that might take a system offline. So as an example, 1:18:50.000 --> 1:18:54.680 this happened with a previous generation of both Nvidia and mdgpus, 1:18:54.680 --> 1:18:57.880 but where they would have large spikes and power draw 1:18:57.920 --> 1:19:00.840 that deviated from the non old draw. So if you're 1:19:00.840 --> 1:19:03.599 at four hundred and fifty watts and there's a spike 1:19:03.680 --> 1:19:07.040 to eleven hundred watts for one hundred micro seconds or something, 1:19:07.640 --> 1:19:11.280 this might be enough to trip over current protection on 1:19:11.280 --> 1:19:14.160 the power spot and just shut the computer off. And 1:19:14.160 --> 1:19:16.680 then the end user is like, what the fuck? My 1:19:16.720 --> 1:19:18.879 power supply is enough to handle four hundred and fifty. 1:19:18.640 --> 1:19:20.479 Watts right off? 1:19:20.520 --> 1:19:22.240 And this happened that Yeah. 1:19:22.080 --> 1:19:24.240 We saw this with I want to say it was 1:19:24.240 --> 1:19:29.400 the thirty series, the RTX thirty series, and like it 1:19:29.400 --> 1:19:31.679 was a problem that doesn't show up in normal power testing, 1:19:32.120 --> 1:19:33.680 but within a silloscope you can see it. 1:19:34.400 --> 1:19:39.920 And uh again credit to end video for the problems 1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:40.519 we point out. 1:19:40.560 --> 1:19:42.840 On the positive side, they did actually fix this problem 1:19:42.840 --> 1:19:43.639 in the forty series. 1:19:43.760 --> 1:19:47.040 Yeah, so here's here's a weird one, but I know 1:19:47.080 --> 1:19:50.519 it's near detO heart Linux Gaming. Yeah, are you actually, 1:19:50.640 --> 1:19:53.440 do you think this is a viable alternative to Windows 1:19:53.479 --> 1:19:56.960 with Windows ten kind of dying will being killed in 1:19:57.000 --> 1:19:57.439 the bag? 1:19:57.680 --> 1:20:01.559 Yeah, I think. I think Microsoft is the best marketing 1:20:01.600 --> 1:20:02.679 that Linux has ever had. 1:20:02.840 --> 1:20:04.840 I go on, Yeah, My. 1:20:05.240 --> 1:20:10.120 Biggest concern with Windows is not like the death of 1:20:10.240 --> 1:20:17.240 ten ongoing security support. It is the slow intrusion of spyware. 1:20:18.640 --> 1:20:19.479 Well like recall. 1:20:20.080 --> 1:20:23.639 Yes, you know where recall is marketed as this secure, 1:20:24.040 --> 1:20:32.040 locally saved, encrypted reel of your information. But to me, 1:20:32.880 --> 1:20:35.960 like capturing screenshots of your desktop while you use it 1:20:36.000 --> 1:20:37.640 at all is problematic. 1:20:37.960 --> 1:20:39.519 Yes, and we've done some testing. 1:20:39.560 --> 1:20:42.920 It's not published yet, but it'll do some dumb filtering 1:20:42.960 --> 1:20:44.800 so if it sees the word password on the screen, 1:20:44.880 --> 1:20:47.519 it won't take a screen shot, right, But like, you're 1:20:47.560 --> 1:20:49.280 not always going to have one of those words on 1:20:49.320 --> 1:20:52.679 the screen when it shouldn't take a screen shot. 1:20:52.960 --> 1:20:53.160 Right. 1:20:53.160 --> 1:20:56.280 Maybe you have some accounting documents open, you know, and 1:20:56.720 --> 1:20:59.559 it's information that's sensitive, but recall doesn't know it's sensitive. 1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:02.840 And uh, it's stuff like that that concerns me, where 1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:08.719 it's breachable and exploitable because it exists not necessarily because 1:21:08.720 --> 1:21:13.680 there is an exploit, right and uh, and then Windows 1:21:13.840 --> 1:21:19.120 eleven is continuing to add telemetry and user data and 1:21:19.160 --> 1:21:20.679 engagement monitoring tools. 1:21:20.800 --> 1:21:22.880 And that's kind of a big feature of home s, 1:21:23.120 --> 1:21:26.160 like all the horrible s operating systems, the cheap ones. 1:21:26.360 --> 1:21:30.760 Yeah, it's yeah, everything that. It's just there's so much 1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:35.080 data harvesting, you know, Microsoft's This is why I think 1:21:35.120 --> 1:21:37.360 Microsoft hasn't really cared too much in recent years. 1:21:37.400 --> 1:21:40.200 If you if you don't license Windows. They used to 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:40.719 really care. 1:21:40.600 --> 1:21:43.000 About that, yes, because now it's like, yeah, go ahead 1:21:43.000 --> 1:21:45.240 and steal it from us, like we're going to just 1:21:45.240 --> 1:21:46.640 take all your data and that's how we make the 1:21:46.680 --> 1:21:47.280 money anyway. 1:21:47.439 --> 1:21:50.880 Horrifying. But do you think Linux is viable as a 1:21:50.920 --> 1:21:51.400 gaming plot? 1:21:51.520 --> 1:21:54.240 I think it as a gaming platform specifically, I think 1:21:54.280 --> 1:21:57.639 it's becoming a lot more viable. So thanks to Valve 1:21:57.760 --> 1:22:03.160 and the Steam deck ands and it's pushed for Proton 1:22:03.240 --> 1:22:05.519 as a translation layer between the application and. 1:22:05.560 --> 1:22:06.880 The operating system. 1:22:06.920 --> 1:22:09.880 And what is that just for the Yeah, so Proton 1:22:10.439 --> 1:22:14.439 is it's a translation layer, which means it's working to 1:22:15.080 --> 1:22:19.200 effectively interpret the code that is that the game is 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:23.679 built with to run with better performance or at all 1:22:24.080 --> 1:22:26.760 on a different operating system in this case Linux or 1:22:26.800 --> 1:22:31.360 Stemos specifically, and so because of Valve's work on that 1:22:31.680 --> 1:22:36.719 to make games more compatible, run smoother, you know, deliver 1:22:36.880 --> 1:22:39.479 consistent frame rate and pacing of the frames. 1:22:39.760 --> 1:22:41.040 Because their work there. 1:22:41.880 --> 1:22:45.520 In some instances it actually has better performance than Windows. 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:45.840 Right. 1:22:46.840 --> 1:22:49.759 The limiting factor is still sometimes it just simply doesn't work, 1:22:50.320 --> 1:22:53.479 but that has become a lot less the case than 1:22:53.520 --> 1:22:55.120 what it was, say, ten years ago. 1:22:56.800 --> 1:22:57.840 It's not a fix for everybody. 1:22:57.880 --> 1:22:59.680 There's still times you're gonna try and run a game 1:22:59.720 --> 1:23:01.439 and it's not gonna work, and that's gonna suck. 1:23:01.640 --> 1:23:02.880 And how's the driver support? 1:23:02.960 --> 1:23:06.080 For example, hit and miss? So we're really early in 1:23:06.080 --> 1:23:07.599 this test in but. 1:23:09.600 --> 1:23:12.080 As an example, I know, Intel recently laid off a 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:17.880 bunch of their teams that maintains various Linux driversware. Yeah, 1:23:17.880 --> 1:23:19.960 and so it's kind of you know, we don't really 1:23:19.960 --> 1:23:22.479 know what happens there. Maybe the community picks it up, 1:23:22.479 --> 1:23:23.800 I guess, I hope so, but. 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:28.839 Yeah, he will, Yeah, yeah, it depends. 1:23:28.840 --> 1:23:31.080 Also, it really feels bad to just be like, who's 1:23:31.120 --> 1:23:33.280 gonna take responsibility for this thing we need? 1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:36.240 Yeah, and if it's even an open source driver to 1:23:36.280 --> 1:23:39.400 begin with. So yeah, it's hit and miss, but I 1:23:39.400 --> 1:23:41.880 would say that the biggest limitation of my experience with Linux, 1:23:41.880 --> 1:23:43.640 and I'm not an expert in Linux. There's no new 1:23:43.680 --> 1:23:44.960 people in your audience who. 1:23:45.080 --> 1:23:48.479 Know they email me whenever I say alternative y wes. 1:23:48.720 --> 1:23:50.439 Well, that's why we we better not even get into 1:23:50.439 --> 1:23:51.800 distributions of Linux. 1:23:51.560 --> 1:23:54.639 Or oh no, they will. They will be up my ass. 1:23:56.320 --> 1:24:01.400 Arch by the way, But yeah, I think the. 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:02.880 I think. 1:24:03.680 --> 1:24:07.680 I think the biggest you know, limiting factors is compatibility 1:24:07.680 --> 1:24:11.240 with things like daily applications. So the tools we use 1:24:11.280 --> 1:24:15.000 for video editing generally just don't work on Linux. We'd 1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:17.400 have to use something else. Yeah, and that's a problem. 1:24:17.520 --> 1:24:21.000 But well, adjacent to this Linux conversation, how are you 1:24:21.000 --> 1:24:22.160 feel about handheld gaming? 1:24:22.560 --> 1:24:23.559 Handhelds are really cool. 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:28.080 I think there's faster innovation happening and handhelds than most 1:24:28.120 --> 1:24:28.839 other places. 1:24:29.040 --> 1:24:32.000 Are there any really like? Because I know a zeus 1:24:32.520 --> 1:24:34.880 because being on the Naughty List a bit. But I 1:24:34.960 --> 1:24:36.960 like the steam Deck personally, But like, do you have 1:24:37.000 --> 1:24:38.160 at a favorite brand? 1:24:38.280 --> 1:24:41.520 The steam Deck and the Ally are both pretty cool devices, 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:45.640 despite the Ally's warranty issues, like it actually is a 1:24:45.680 --> 1:24:49.360 cool piece of hardware. I thought the Lenovo Legion Go 1:24:49.479 --> 1:24:54.599 the original was a really unique and innovative gimmick. 1:24:54.720 --> 1:24:56.360 And I don't use that word. 1:24:56.120 --> 1:24:57.280 To like degrade the gimmick. 1:24:57.360 --> 1:25:02.200 The gimmick was the controllers detached. I like the switch. Yeah, 1:25:02.240 --> 1:25:07.120 and then the steam deck is uh. 1:25:07.320 --> 1:25:09.559 It was just kind of the first in the new 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:13.280 round of handhelds. You know, GPD existed before them and 1:25:13.400 --> 1:25:14.599 Ioneo and those guys. 1:25:14.720 --> 1:25:18.000 I respect GPD. They're weird, but they're trying something. 1:25:18.200 --> 1:25:22.160 Yeah. GPD and Ioneo both are weird but trying something. 1:25:22.240 --> 1:25:25.240 Yeah. I appreciate you don't have American manufacturers do it. 1:25:25.280 --> 1:25:28.360 Actually it's good. Are the American manufacturers trying weird shit 1:25:28.479 --> 1:25:30.320 like that or is it predominantly. 1:25:32.000 --> 1:25:35.479 It depends like how you how you define American here 1:25:35.520 --> 1:25:43.120 because you know design, yes, like who depends on how 1:25:43.160 --> 1:25:45.960 you count Lenovo At this point, I don't know if 1:25:46.000 --> 1:25:48.200 you count them as American or not. 1:25:48.400 --> 1:25:49.840 Right, but they're trying weird shit. 1:25:50.360 --> 1:25:51.200 They are doing. 1:25:50.960 --> 1:25:54.640 Weird stuff, and and they you know, they certainly have 1:25:54.800 --> 1:25:58.240 large US headquarter offices. I don't know where their design happens. 1:25:58.520 --> 1:26:01.080 It's probably they have a base I think office. It's 1:26:01.120 --> 1:26:05.639 probably there. But Valve is definitely the coolest in terms 1:26:05.720 --> 1:26:12.280 of they set the tempo for this to reignite, Like 1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:16.160 they're the ones who made handheld interesting again, and everyone 1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:18.599 else jumped in and started doing stuff and that's pretty cool. 1:26:18.760 --> 1:26:21.600 And Valve also said, you know, we're gonna make Stemos 1:26:21.640 --> 1:26:25.960 available to other handheld manufacturers if they want to use it. 1:26:25.960 --> 1:26:27.479 I don't know if there's a license or not, but 1:26:27.920 --> 1:26:29.320 like it's available. 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:30.559 And that's not being picked up. I know you can 1:26:30.640 --> 1:26:31.559 kind of sideload it. 1:26:32.000 --> 1:26:33.240 Yeah, you can definitely sideload it. 1:26:33.280 --> 1:26:37.800 I think officially, I want to say Lenovo might have 1:26:37.880 --> 1:26:42.400 been the first one to actually offer it, right zeither Lenovo. 1:26:42.600 --> 1:26:45.200 I don't think it was asues, but but yeah, someone's 1:26:45.200 --> 1:26:45.680 picked it up. 1:26:45.720 --> 1:26:48.400 How do you feel about the Xbook's Rogue Ally. 1:26:49.600 --> 1:26:51.559 I think there's a lot of confusion around it in 1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:55.880 the more mainstream audience. I've noticed talment threads where people 1:26:55.880 --> 1:26:58.640 think it's going to be required to play what you 1:26:58.640 --> 1:27:02.920 would consider an Xbox game, But it's like basically a PC. 1:27:03.400 --> 1:27:06.120 It's just a rogue x ally with Xbox branding. 1:27:05.880 --> 1:27:09.479 Right basically yeh. And I'm sure there's some software gifts, 1:27:09.800 --> 1:27:10.160 you know. 1:27:10.120 --> 1:27:12.840 But I wonder if it works because that's not being 1:27:13.040 --> 1:27:15.560 I love my rogue ally, but the fucking software that 1:27:15.600 --> 1:27:17.559 pops up really gets in the way of gaming. 1:27:17.800 --> 1:27:18.040 Yeah. 1:27:18.120 --> 1:27:20.599 I don't really know what Microsoft is doing with Xbox. 1:27:20.640 --> 1:27:23.120 It just seems like they're they're not sure what to 1:27:23.160 --> 1:27:24.240 do with that brand right now. 1:27:24.360 --> 1:27:26.519 I have to I was gonna ask, like, what do 1:27:26.560 --> 1:27:28.920 you think Microsoft's deal with gaming is right now? They 1:27:29.040 --> 1:27:31.200 seem almost like they don't want to do it. 1:27:31.200 --> 1:27:35.519 It's weird because they they were so committed to locking 1:27:35.560 --> 1:27:38.000 people into the Xbox for like a generation or two, 1:27:38.760 --> 1:27:42.560 and then at some point my memory of it is 1:27:42.600 --> 1:27:44.960 they kind of realized, like, wait a minute, you know, 1:27:45.000 --> 1:27:50.639 as we moved to X eighty six architectures for consoles PC, 1:27:50.800 --> 1:27:53.960 gaming kind of works on both these devices, so we 1:27:53.960 --> 1:27:55.519 don't really care if they buy it on PC or 1:27:55.560 --> 1:27:57.960 on Xbox, as long as they use our device. 1:27:58.040 --> 1:28:00.280 And they raise the price on game Pass as well. 1:28:00.400 --> 1:28:02.559 Yeah, and and games oh. 1:28:02.560 --> 1:28:04.599 Of course at the same time, and also the Xbox. 1:28:04.720 --> 1:28:08.200 Yeah, and then you know, surprised the Pikachu face when 1:28:08.680 --> 1:28:10.639 they raised the price on games and then they raised 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:14.160 the press on games Pass and then everybody cancels. 1:28:14.360 --> 1:28:16.679 Well, they lost so much. I read something they lost 1:28:16.720 --> 1:28:19.960 like one hundred million dollars or something even more because 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:21.519 they put cool of duty on game Pass. 1:28:21.920 --> 1:28:23.640 Yeah, I'm sure it was genies. 1:28:23.280 --> 1:28:27.320 Fucking move lets it really. It's a shame as well, 1:28:27.400 --> 1:28:30.360 because when you get past all the horrible menus, it 1:28:30.479 --> 1:28:32.559 is kind of cool that you can just plug a game. 1:28:32.800 --> 1:28:34.559 I don't know, I've been playing PC games long enough 1:28:34.600 --> 1:28:36.559 that I was excited when you could just plug controller 1:28:36.680 --> 1:28:38.320 and it wasn't some sort of nightmare. 1:28:38.560 --> 1:28:38.880 Yeah. 1:28:38.960 --> 1:28:41.320 Yeah, though PS five controllers you still have to do 1:28:41.439 --> 1:28:43.400 the weird duel shock emulate a thing. 1:28:43.880 --> 1:28:49.120 Yeah, it's gotten a lot more accessible, but I think 1:28:49.400 --> 1:28:51.400 the handholds are are pretty cool. 1:28:52.040 --> 1:28:56.280 There's a lot of focus there. I'm not sure when 1:28:56.360 --> 1:28:57.120 Valve is going to do it. 1:28:57.200 --> 1:28:59.879 I really want them to bring Stemos to stop properly 1:29:00.439 --> 1:29:04.360 because it's not currently officially released for desktops, but they've 1:29:04.360 --> 1:29:06.599 done so much optimization work there where. Like the coolest 1:29:06.680 --> 1:29:09.320 thing that gets probably the least coverage outside of our 1:29:09.360 --> 1:29:15.679 space is they've really tuned the. 1:29:14.560 --> 1:29:17.200 Pacing of delivery of frames. 1:29:17.280 --> 1:29:20.799 So if you have sixty fps, sixty frames per second 1:29:21.479 --> 1:29:24.880 and it's delivered an inconsistent interval, so you have a 1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:29.120 frame delivered in sixteen milliseconds and then the next frame 1:29:29.200 --> 1:29:32.680 is delivered in one hundred milliseconds and that repeats. That's 1:29:32.720 --> 1:29:36.200 going to feel really bad. Despite being sixty fps averaged 1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:39.000 over the period, you might have some that are four milliseconds, 1:29:39.000 --> 1:29:40.599 some that are sixteen, some that are one hundred. 1:29:40.640 --> 1:29:42.840 We never thought that fps could be a marketing term, 1:29:43.520 --> 1:29:45.400 and now I finally, Oh Jesus, yeah. 1:29:45.439 --> 1:29:49.559 And so like the work they've done to optimize for 1:29:49.600 --> 1:29:52.280 the frame delivery is great where they sometimes have better 1:29:52.320 --> 1:29:56.439 frame time pacing than Windows, and I would like to 1:29:56.479 --> 1:29:57.600 see that come to desktop. 1:29:57.800 --> 1:30:00.920 So as we wrap up, what are you excited about? 1:30:00.920 --> 1:30:03.840 What in teke in hardware and whatever is actually like 1:30:04.400 --> 1:30:05.400 kind of bringing your chair. 1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:11.000 Yeah, I think on the DIY enthusiast side, there's still 1:30:11.040 --> 1:30:13.880 a lot of really cool innovation happening, especially in cases 1:30:13.960 --> 1:30:17.720 right now, believe it or not, like computer cases, you 1:30:17.760 --> 1:30:21.080 would think that it's like a pretty answered I mean 1:30:21.080 --> 1:30:26.960 it's it's all thermodynamics, which is well documented, right, It's 1:30:26.960 --> 1:30:28.000 not like stilicon. 1:30:27.640 --> 1:30:31.640 Engineering, but they're still there. I don't know. There's just 1:30:31.680 --> 1:30:32.880 a lot of improvement in. 1:30:34.640 --> 1:30:37.800 Getting an affordable, like good looking design that actually has 1:30:37.840 --> 1:30:39.880 a lot of function to it. So over the last 1:30:39.880 --> 1:30:42.280 six or seven years they've really switched to focus on 1:30:42.360 --> 1:30:46.040 coin performance and then coin performance that still looks good 1:30:46.240 --> 1:30:47.840 and so that's it's exciting to see that. 1:30:48.320 --> 1:30:50.759 And what does that edit? Does it the cases get smaller? 1:30:50.800 --> 1:30:52.040 Are they just they can? 1:30:52.200 --> 1:30:54.600 Yeah, there's better thermal management. 1:30:54.240 --> 1:30:57.200 Better thermals as a result of that, maybe lower noise. 1:30:58.400 --> 1:31:02.040 The computer just looks cooler. The smaller boxes have gotten 1:31:02.040 --> 1:31:03.599 a lot more viable. So if you want to build 1:31:03.680 --> 1:31:06.479 something that you take from I don't know, like if 1:31:07.280 --> 1:31:11.360 there's a kid who travels between a college dorm and 1:31:11.479 --> 1:31:14.160 home in the summer, you know, having like a small 1:31:15.520 --> 1:31:18.200 a small mini it x box is pretty appealing, and 1:31:18.240 --> 1:31:19.200 those have gotten really good. 1:31:19.360 --> 1:31:21.960 Yeah, the mani atxs are always so interesting to me. 1:31:22.040 --> 1:31:23.479 I love the idea of kind of like an Apple 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:26.400 TV sized one. That's a pipe dream, but still. 1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:27.280 It's not hard to do. 1:31:27.600 --> 1:31:30.519 It's yeah, I mean, they've gotten easier. But the other thing, 1:31:30.920 --> 1:31:33.160 I think coolers are also pretty exciting right now. A 1:31:33.240 --> 1:31:37.559 lot of really neat technological development on the cool end 1:31:37.560 --> 1:31:44.200 products GPUs I think are probably the biggest hang ups 1:31:44.200 --> 1:31:48.320 for people where the pricing has just gotten kind of 1:31:48.320 --> 1:31:52.880 stupid for consumer market GPUs, and yeah, I think that 1:31:52.880 --> 1:31:55.799 that's the one that's kind of like kind of a bummer. 1:31:55.920 --> 1:31:59.000 I guess, yeah. And I mean, do you see any 1:31:59.200 --> 1:32:02.519 viable competitor to win video and am D at any point? 1:32:02.560 --> 1:32:04.759 Do you think that there's any chance of any smaller competitor. 1:32:05.040 --> 1:32:08.080 The only one is Intel, which I never really answered 1:32:08.080 --> 1:32:09.960 your question on ARC. I think right now ARC is 1:32:09.960 --> 1:32:10.799 going to stick around. 1:32:10.880 --> 1:32:12.880 But yeah, right now it only goes up to like 1:32:12.880 --> 1:32:15.840 two hundred and fifty dollars and after that it's all 1:32:15.880 --> 1:32:20.519 AMD and Nvidia and AMD. You know, part of it's 1:32:20.560 --> 1:32:23.000 their fault. They need to really want it and compete, 1:32:23.320 --> 1:32:26.519 and they just aren't. Like the products are okay, but 1:32:26.600 --> 1:32:29.559 they keep doing the stupidest things with their prices and 1:32:29.600 --> 1:32:33.240 their marketing. And I think part of it is they 1:32:33.280 --> 1:32:36.160 sell every epic CPU they make, so they allocate all 1:32:36.160 --> 1:32:38.800 the way for supply to that, and GPUs are kind 1:32:38.800 --> 1:32:41.840 of back burnered. But you know, the end result is 1:32:41.880 --> 1:32:44.599 we just end up in this stalemate we've been in forever. 1:32:44.720 --> 1:32:45.880 Now, what about. 1:32:45.600 --> 1:32:48.800 Combined GPUs and CPUs, is that is that something you're 1:32:49.000 --> 1:32:51.479 seeing much growth from. Do you think that that's going 1:32:51.520 --> 1:32:53.160 to be a focus or is that kind of just the. 1:32:53.160 --> 1:32:57.920 CPUs basically, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean the the entire handheld. 1:32:57.520 --> 1:32:58.120 Market is that. 1:32:58.320 --> 1:33:00.639 Yeah, So there's a lot of success there and they're 1:33:00.680 --> 1:33:04.360 clearly good devices. Now for that, they're not good enough 1:33:04.360 --> 1:33:09.000 for like high fidelity, high resolution, high graphics quality gaming 1:33:09.640 --> 1:33:13.880 on a desktop, but yeah, mobile devices, they're great for 1:33:14.000 --> 1:33:19.040 their faults Upscalers like DLSS and FSR do make it 1:33:19.080 --> 1:33:23.280 more viable to run an integrated graphics solution and actually 1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:28.200 have a decent experience. Can't get close to a dedicated GPU, 1:33:28.439 --> 1:33:32.120 but they're good. They're just they're in the same spot 1:33:32.160 --> 1:33:34.840 they've been in for fifteen years where it's you know, 1:33:34.880 --> 1:33:38.479 it's it's not really a replacement for one hundred dollars. 1:33:38.479 --> 1:33:39.639 GPU is going to be better. 1:33:39.680 --> 1:33:42.000 Probably probably doesn't make enough money as well from the 1:33:42.080 --> 1:33:44.080 sink a bunch of R and D into it either. 1:33:44.360 --> 1:33:48.000 Or it becomes a problem of ballooning the die area 1:33:48.600 --> 1:33:52.080 because you have to allocate some amount of your silicon 1:33:52.320 --> 1:33:55.880 to the GPU and the CPU, and so if you 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:57.760 give more to the GP to make more powerful, you're 1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:00.840 making your CPU weaker. And the only really way to 1:34:00.880 --> 1:34:04.240 solve that is to put more silicon on the products, 1:34:04.280 --> 1:34:05.160 which is expensive. 1:34:05.400 --> 1:34:08.680 So yeah, So a couple questions before we wrap up, 1:34:09.000 --> 1:34:11.160 who are your favorite creators at the moment, because you 1:34:11.800 --> 1:34:14.840 there's a there seems like a good kind of solidarity 1:34:14.880 --> 1:34:16.240 between them. But who do you watch? 1:34:16.320 --> 1:34:21.000 What do you I think historically, like going back, the 1:34:21.120 --> 1:34:27.800 large influences were Tech Report, Scott Wasson specifically, if I 1:34:27.840 --> 1:34:29.880 remember correctly, he was involved in the early days of 1:34:29.880 --> 1:34:32.599 ours Technico also early early days. 1:34:32.800 --> 1:34:34.080 Oh oh sure, I'll have to look out. 1:34:34.320 --> 1:34:37.439 And so Scott Wasson did a lot of excellent like 1:34:38.479 --> 1:34:42.840 test design work. Ryan Shrout was part of his kind 1:34:42.880 --> 1:34:45.719 of era and the two of them with Tom Peterson 1:34:45.760 --> 1:34:47.920 from Intel now worked. 1:34:47.640 --> 1:34:48.519 On frame time testing. 1:34:48.600 --> 1:34:53.240 So so their publications set the framework for modern benchmarking 1:34:53.320 --> 1:34:56.320 with frame times and I that was you know, I 1:34:56.360 --> 1:34:59.920 still reference those content pieces and in tech I think 1:35:00.040 --> 1:35:03.439 as well respected but has been shut down by I 1:35:03.439 --> 1:35:04.879 think it was Future bought them. 1:35:05.360 --> 1:35:07.680 Yeah yeah, I mean anyone who's worked the Future knows 1:35:07.720 --> 1:35:10.680 what happened, which is the Future bought them and then 1:35:11.360 --> 1:35:12.439 just didn't do shit with them. 1:35:12.600 --> 1:35:15.240 Yeah, But who do you watch right now now? For 1:35:15.640 --> 1:35:17.040 I like the work that. 1:35:18.760 --> 1:35:23.360 Jared's Tech does on laptops, So he's an excellent laptop reviewer, 1:35:23.880 --> 1:35:25.040 does really good work there. 1:35:25.800 --> 1:35:28.400 We've helped. 1:35:29.800 --> 1:35:32.479 Just Josh Tech, who's another laptop reviewer, with some of 1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:35.320 his testing methodology, and I think they've been doing good 1:35:35.360 --> 1:35:38.400 things to really try to advance on that. They're still like, 1:35:38.479 --> 1:35:41.559 relatively new to testing, but they're really trying. I think 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:46.280 Jay's two cents with his recent changes to testing, He's 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:48.800 really kind of put in a lot of effort to 1:35:48.840 --> 1:35:52.439 overhaul it. And then the hard run box guys are 1:35:52.479 --> 1:35:57.000 also awesome. But yeah, it's there's there's I like, hesitate 1:35:57.040 --> 1:35:59.639 to start naming channels because there's a lot of channels 1:36:00.280 --> 1:36:02.919 you know that I like or we talk to at shows, 1:36:03.000 --> 1:36:04.200 and I hate to leave anyone. 1:36:04.360 --> 1:36:07.599 Oh no, I know, I wasn't trying to single anyone else. 1:36:07.680 --> 1:36:09.680 It's just I think that, especially in my own work, 1:36:09.720 --> 1:36:11.360 I could be quite critical. So it's good to just 1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:14.599 focus on the things you actually like. Yeah, so as 1:36:14.600 --> 1:36:17.320 we wrap, what's next for game is nextus? What do 1:36:17.360 --> 1:36:19.840 you want to do next beyond testing? Is there a 1:36:19.920 --> 1:36:21.559 virtually want to move into? I know you've got the 1:36:21.560 --> 1:36:22.360 other channel. 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.479 Going, yeah, yeah, I have to go to the UK 1:36:24.600 --> 1:36:24.840 for that. 1:36:25.400 --> 1:36:27.920 I'm sorry. 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:33.439 Recommendations from here leave okay, don't go where the airport is. 1:36:35.080 --> 1:36:38.439 Yeah, yeah, I think that we. 1:36:38.360 --> 1:36:42.120 Have some relatively large focus on that channel, which is 1:36:42.160 --> 1:36:45.160 like looking at some more consumer advocacy topics on the 1:36:45.200 --> 1:36:46.040 test inside. 1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:46.800 Uh. 1:36:47.439 --> 1:36:50.000 The biggest thing we're doing right now is overhauling our 1:36:50.760 --> 1:36:54.719 gaming benchmarks. So we're working to introduce some new types 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:58.840 of charts and metrics that don't exist right now in reviews, 1:36:58.840 --> 1:37:04.160 cold animation, error, and just trying to basically, we're taking 1:37:04.160 --> 1:37:08.679 a moment right now to try and find Yeah, Okay, 1:37:08.720 --> 1:37:11.200 we've been representing things a certain way in charge forever 1:37:11.479 --> 1:37:14.920 as a review community. Is there anything new here we 1:37:15.000 --> 1:37:17.719 can do? And that's kind of what we're trying to research. 1:37:17.800 --> 1:37:19.799 So that's the immediate focus. 1:37:20.200 --> 1:37:22.519 Well, Steve, it's been such a pleasure to come out here. 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:23.800 Thank you so much for your time. 1:37:24.000 --> 1:37:34.280 Thanks, thank you for listening to Better Offline. 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:36.840 The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song 1:37:36.920 --> 1:37:39.559 is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music 1:37:39.560 --> 1:37:43.240 and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T 1:37:43.240 --> 1:37:47.680 T O, s O W s ki dot com. You 1:37:47.720 --> 1:37:50.240 can email me at easy at Better Offline dot com, 1:37:50.320 --> 1:37:52.599 or visit Better offline dot com to find more podcast 1:37:52.680 --> 1:37:56.000 links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend 1:37:56.040 --> 1:37:57.960 you go to chat dot Where's Youreed dot at to 1:37:58.040 --> 1:38:00.280 visit the discord, and go to aslan. 1:38:00.120 --> 1:38:03.280 Bet off lines check out I'll Reddit. Thank you so 1:38:03.360 --> 1:38:06.800 much for listening Better. 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