WEBVTT - Mehdi vs. Jubilee with Mehdi Hasan 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.600 Native Lampod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.279 Reason Choice Media. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.880 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Welcome. 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:14.040 Home, Everybody. This is episode counted ninety one, Just nine Shype, 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.279 our one hundredth episode of Native Lampod where we give 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:19.880 you our breakdown on all things politics and. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:20.880 Of course culture. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:26.120 We're your co hosts today, Angelouri, Andrew Gillham, and our 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.280 sister friend Tiffany Cross, who is the third co host. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:34.080 Happens to be away, but we got an update from 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:36.360 the ground directly from her, so you don't want to 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.040 miss that. Angela, what will be talking about today, Well, we. 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.640 Are talking about missing our sister Tip, but also you 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.040 all won't miss her because you'll hear from her. But 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:51.239 I am really excited. We did a mini pod yesterday 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:53.760 on Texas redistricting. Andrew, We're going to get into how 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:55.840 this is in all the states and we might have 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.200 missed a major key alert in North Carolina in twenty 0:00:59.200 --> 0:00:59.680 twenty four. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.000 Well, along with those topics, we're going to be able 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.279 to get into it with our first guest, Meddi Hassan, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.080 who some of you may know from a viral video 0:01:08.680 --> 0:01:12.039 going around, and ju believe where he debated a room 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.600 full of well, I'll let him describe what the room 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:16.280 was full of coming up next to you here from 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.959 the man himself, Meddi. But before we do that, we 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.440 want to remind you if you like this show. In fact, 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.640 if you love this show or if you like it, 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.360 we want you to go ahead and please rate and review, 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:30.520 share this episode or whatever your favorite episode may be, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.360 with your friend's family, loved ones, frenemies, et cetera, et cetera. 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:36.360 And if you don't like it, jump in the lake. 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.600 That's what he was trying to say. Also, you know 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:40.720 the other thing, Andrew, we should tell people right now 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:43.200 is we have a survey right now. Black people like 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.240 free stuff. I think there's some other people in the 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.160 world that like free stuff too, So if you do, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.680 you might want to fill out this survey. We launched 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.800 it this past Monday, and folks are already chiming in. 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.840 We got a little fifty dollars gift card for you, 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.480 and also a signed poster of us because somebody wants that. 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.560 Somebody may want it, Andrew, but I don't need a sign. 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.880 Anytime, but there may be some out there who might 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:12.399 appreciate it. Maybe your three year old child's loves our faces. 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:19.160 And Davis Davis is absolutely in the building, by the way, 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.560 along with gall I am managing them from upstairs. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.480 We don't detain my nephews and my niece. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.519 Please listen well to the audience, y'all stay tuned, because 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:32.799 we've got some very great, great, great, great great show. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:39.519 On the other side of this, we've got Neddie Hassan 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:44.320 who is repping real hard that shirt today, representing the 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:46.240 network that he has found then and is now in 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:49.720 charge of Zito. Now he's teased Angela and I that 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.799 this merch that you're looking at, it is priced in 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.120 pounds and so you want to compare the. 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.480 Diction about it if you're in the UK. Thanks guys 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:00.320 for having me, and thanks for the plug. But it 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:03.760 isn't dollars the tail dot com shop dot detail dot com. 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:05.200 I'm a shameless small businessman. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:09.760 Now we should be jos, but I have to I 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.600 have to do this. I did tell him before we 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.600 got on, y'all that it's more expensive because we say merch. Maddie, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:16.480 what do you say. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.480 I say, merch much that's much more priceing. 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:23.760 I've been in ten years. I've been a citizen for 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.280 five years. I'm proud to still keep my accent speaking. 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:29.680 Of you being a citizen. We sorry you tearing it 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.240 up on Jubilee, and we actually want to go right 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:34.760 to that clip. Let's watch. 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.119 Do you believe the wages? I'm just wondering how naive 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.040 you are. You believe that the one percent will. 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:43.080 Raise wages in the federal wage They will be forced 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.360 to when you increase labour's relationship to capital. Okay, and 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.240 you give labor more bargaining power because you're understanding economics. 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.040 Because you explain I'm wrong, I'm telling you how you're wrong, 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.160 because you're ignoring the fact that when immigrants come into 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:59.880 an area, they spend money, they create jobs, they spend 0:04:00.400 --> 0:04:01.840 that's a good thing. Also, because you don't like us 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.200 a foreign aid, so this is the point they created 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.400 into this country. So far, everyone of my assumptions about 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.360 you as being correct, But listen to me. I am 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.839 an immigrant. I'm speaking for us experience. I don't even 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:13.760 like I should get the hell out. 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:15.200 Yes, why I don't watch here? 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:16.880 Why because you come here and say all this bullshit 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.039 about how Americans are lazy, You push your left Americans. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.080 Oh my lord, how do you mentallysty How do you 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:30.520 mentally prepare for that room? I mean I was, I 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.520 was frustrated off jump, but I stuck in there, you know, 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.200 giving my moral support to you. But how do you 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.360 mentally prepare yourself for such ignorance on such a scale 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.560 where everywhere you turn, literally you're confronted by the same level, 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.760 if not a greater level of ignorance. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.080 I mean, the show is called Surrounded, and you are 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:52.480 literally surrounded by twenty of them, and actually the worst ones. 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:56.120 As I discovered in hindsight, the most openly white supremacist 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.039 of the bunge were actually behind me, so I didn't 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:59.280 see them for a lot of the taping. So when 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.520 I watched it back on YouTube, you can see them 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.440 kind of pouting and preening and making faces and gestures. 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:06.400 They were actually behind me, so I missed a lot 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.800 of their facial expressions as I was winding them up. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:10.920 How do you prepare for that? A lot of people 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.760 have told me that they haven't been able to watch 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.440 all our forty minutes. They watch it in like portions 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.320 because he gets their blood pressure up. And I was like, 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.800 how do you think I felt I was sitting there 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.839 for the whole time. We got one toilet break in 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:23.160 the middle, in which I was able to go, what 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:25.680 the fuck is happening here? Yeah, and then go back 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.680 into the lion's den. It was this very strange experience. 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.200 I knew it was going to be weird, it was 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.839 going to be different to anything I'd done, But it's 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.039 like nothing I've ever done in my life, personally or professionally. 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:38.920 To be in that room, in that studio in LA 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.800 with twenty of them, and one after another, they're each 0:05:43.000 --> 0:05:45.800 crazier than the next. And I've talked about jubilee. It's 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:47.240 been out now for a couple of weeks. But what's 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:49.400 interesting is you guys are the first people I'm talking 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.120 to you since I saw the latest jubilee a couple 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.560 of days back. Chenk Wiger of the Young Turks, he 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:55.840 just did a jubilee that just came out a couple 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.120 of days ago on one populist versus twenty Republicans and Democrats. 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:01.760 And I noticed again that he has some normal people 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:03.480 in there. And people keep asking you, why did you 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:05.120 go sit down with fascists? I didn't know that it 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.200 all be fascist. I knew there'd be a couple of crazies. 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.960 Sam Cedar from Majority reported earlier this year, good friend 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:11.599 of mine, he said you should do it, and I 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.320 did it, and he had a couple of nutjobs. But 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:16.560 some normal people. I seem to be the only person 0:06:16.600 --> 0:06:18.719 who wanted Jubilee, and they were all that jobs. 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:19.320 They were all there. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.640 Yeah, you know, I watched it and I was thinking, 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.120 you know, oh, they weren't ready for that DEI and 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:30.200 for d by d Y, I mean DA's education and intelligence, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.000 like they were not ready for all of what you 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:35.400 brought to them. But Meddi, the thing that I am 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.080 concerned about is what I heard you say after And 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:41.080 I think many of us are roaming this country right 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.280 now with some of that same anxiety. Talk about how 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.400 you felt when you left that set. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:54.520 Not safe, deeply depressed, shocked. I and a producer at 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.039 a security guard got the hell out of Dodge people saying, oh, 0:06:57.120 --> 0:06:58.120 did you chat to them afterwards? 0:06:58.160 --> 0:06:58.280 Oh? 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.400 Of course I didn't chat to them afterwards. There was 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.320 one guy as he was leaving, one of them lean over. 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.560 They were leaving the set, and then I left separate 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.960 door and he leant over and he whispered I wouldn't 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:11.400 deport you, and I was like, thanks, okay, that's that's 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.440 very charitable of you. No, I got a hell out 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.080 of there. And in fact, this was taped the same 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.720 day that Trump bombed Durran, so I didn't have time 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:19.800 to collect my thoughts. I had a producer telling me, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:21.800 while you've been taping this, Trump as bombed Duran. So 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.400 we just kind of spent Saturday night covering that. So 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.240 I really it was later on when I went out 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.120 to dinner with some family and friends in La where 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.040 I was just telling them what happened, that it really 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.160 was hitting me. These people were insane. What did I 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.000 just go through? And now I've watched it back a 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.160 couple of times, and the point I have to make, 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.160 and this is going to sound I don't I don't 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.040 really care if it sounds slow flaky, but it's kind 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:42.840 of as a journalist and a debate, and Andrew, You're very 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.840 kind about you know what I brought to the debate. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:48.240 I enjoy doing debates. I don't have many skills in life. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:49.320 I'm pretty good at arguing. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.360 I made it that I have. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.160 Very few skills in life, so I'm happy to brag 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.000 about the one that I clearly do have. And it 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.040 doesn't always work in my favor, I ask my wife, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.920 But I enjoy doing it. And I agreed to do 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.360 the debate because I believe in debates, and I've written 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:05.560 a book about debating and all of that, and that's great. 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:06.760 And I watch it back and say, hey, there's a 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.520 viral clip of me owning some guy. Great, but put 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:11.480 that all to one side. Take off the journalist hat, 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:14.680 the debater, hat I am a brown Muslim immigrant in 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.400 the United States. Nobody should have to sit through an 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.120 hour forty minutes of twenty people seventeen I think of 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.400 them white saying get out of our country. You're not 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:25.880 a real American, you can't be an American, you hate 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:30.160 our country. Were fascists, et cetera, et cetera. That is 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:33.200 that is I want to say unacceptable, but it's not unacceptable. 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.880 Clearly it is acceptable in America today. And why I 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:37.680 still think there is value to having done it. And 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:39.640 I'm on the fence of, you know, the good and 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.840 bad of having done it. The one clear benefit of 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.440 doing it is it's kind of it's really is eyes 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.640 wide open moment for a lot of liberals a lot 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:49.800 of white liberals who've been in denial. I spent much 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.040 of twenty twenty four people telling me, Oh, it won't. 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:52.280 Be that bad. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.560 Oh, the Trump people aren't that bad. Angelie. You and 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.480 I have had these discussions before. In the past, Tiffany 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.520 and I have had many discussions on this, like the 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.520 whole number twenty sixteen. Is it economic anxiety or is 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.760 it racial resentment? It's like, go watch Jubilee. It's racial 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.920 resentment about the economy. They don't give a shit about 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.400 the constitution, they don't give a shit about democracy. All 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.520 they wanted to talk about was immigration and race. That's all. 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:16.360 They didn't care about anything else I brought to the party. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.839 That was it. And you know, for me, that's the 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:20.280 kind of case closed. 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.880 Really, you know, I want to I wonder how much 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:27.440 of you thinks that this was the rights sentiment on 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.240 steroids versus like, this is what you will encounter when 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.520 you encounter Donald Trump voters in today's day and age. 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:37.760 I mean, look, I'm not going to say all Donald 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.600 Trump voters are like the people in that room. Clearly not. 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.679 I have people in my family who Donald Trump voters. Unfortunately, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.000 but the wait. 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.760 A minute, we can't blow pass that one issue, but 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:48.120 you know. 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.400 I want one angelo, one in three, one in four Muslims, 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.280 whether it depending on which polls you believe, voted for 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.160 Donald Trump. It's very scary. There are people in the 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.440 Muslim community who I know well, who are good people, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.040 and they'll be like, oh, yeah, vote of Trump. What 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.800 that's just like just I know there's a smaller proportion 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.720 of the black community, but in the Muslim brown not 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:08.760 the Black Muslim community, in the Brown Muslim community, the 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:11.560 Pakistani Indian community and Arab American community. In a place 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.199 like Dearborn, Michigan, a lot of people, unfortunately bought the 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:16.840 bullshit about Trump being anti war and Trump being better 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.400 for the economy and voted for Trump. So I'm not 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:21.280 of the position every Trump voter is a racist. I 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.120 am of the position that every Trump voter is fine 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:26.280 with his racism. But the people in that room, I 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:28.959 think what's scary. Andrew answer your question is they A 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.480 lot of them turned out to be kind of influencers online. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.160 They weren't just ordinary folks. They have like a wrap online, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.680 and I think that makes it in one sense, it 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:39.000 makes it better. Okay, They're not just random twenty people 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.440 picked up his story. On the other hand, these is 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.480 scarier because these people exist online. They're doing very well online. 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.199 They've got big followings. I'm sure Jubilee will have helped 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.439 them grow their followings. They are winning arguments online with 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:52.880 certain subsections of population who are going down these rabbit 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.560 holes and getting red pilled. So in that sense, like 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.280 the way in which white supremacy and white supremacist propaganda 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.680 is so organized and so mainstream, that is very work. 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.800 Like the stuff those people said to me in that room. 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.400 Americans have been saying for decades you both know better 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.920 than me, but they didn't say it so proudly and 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.360 loudly in front of a camera. That was what was 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.600 And by the way, one guy claims to have got fired, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.280 which I think is false, the guy who said he 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.560 was a fascist since that taping. But my question is, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:20.480 so the rest of them, their employers are fired. 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:37.040 Oh yeah, oh yeah, sire, all of them. 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.600 So here's here's the next thing. And and and to 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.840 get out of the trauma of the Jubilee experience, which 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:47.480 is also very oxymoronic. But you have founded this company, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.719 Zteo and I and I want to just stay here 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.079 for a moment, because there's a prophet who also is 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:57.280 a hip hop artist, Lauren Hill, who said, you may 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.559 win some, but you just lost one. And so I'm 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.560 wondering now, as a mainstream network that shall not be 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.000 named looks as you are rapid rise and the way 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.520 in which this company has filled a void that we 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:15.400 clearly had when you set out to found this company, 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.360 medi what was behind it? What were the gaps that 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:19.400 you were seeking to feel? 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:27.080 So end of twenty twenty four, end of twenty twenty three, 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:29.640 excuse me, MSNBC told me they were canceling my shows. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:32.120 They said, you can stay on as a guest host 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:35.840 and a political pundit analyst. I said no thanks. It 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.840 was very clear to me that twenty twenty four would 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:39.600 be one of the most important news years of our life, 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.320 with a presidential election and ongoing genocide in Gaza. I 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.080 didn't want to be sitting on the bench. I needed 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.080 to have my voice out there. So I remember talking 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:48.280 to my wife about this. On the day that I 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.480 got the news that I'm not staying. I got to leave. 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:51.800 Then it was an issue of getting out of my 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.040 contract to be fed at MSNBC. It was all very 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:57.360 pleasant and easy, and by January I was announcing on 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.800 air on my last show that I'm leaving formerly a 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.800 zeteo in April. It was pretty fast for me, there 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:06.439 was it was a no brainer that only was I 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.760 going to leave MSNBC, but I wasn't going to go 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:11.559 to another network, another newspaper, another media outlet. Because I 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.640 kind of done that, got the T shirt. And you know, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.080 I'm now forty six years old. I've worked in the 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.280 media for twenty five years. I've worked in the UK, 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.760 I've worked in the US. I've worked for Sky News, 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.679 the BBC, Al Jazeera internationally, you know, obviously NBC in 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:27.760 the US, and I was kind of like, now it's 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.160 time to do my own thing. If not now, when 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.880 And in terms of the if not me, who to 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.640 get ego maniacal? I did look at the independent media 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.720 marketplace and say, hold on, Tucker Coulson Network, he's doing 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:43.760 really well. Sadly, Daily Wire is now this multi billion 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:47.120 dollar behemoth. You know, Barry Weiss and the Free Press. 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:48.800 What are they all have in common? How can it's 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.680 all right wingers dominating our independent media space, the subscription space. Yes, 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.640 Chenk and the young Turks have been you know around 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.600 credit to them, blessed them on YouTube for two decades 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.000 and Sam Cedar and others. But like in the subscript 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.000 scription independent space, in the sub stacks of this world, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.360 how come the progressives are not that well represented? How 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.200 come no one's trying to do this? Why don't I 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.720 have a go? So for me, that was the driving force. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.720 And clearly I'm not you know, I'm not a natural businessman. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.120 Friends of mine's like, you can't run a bath, how 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.640 are you going to run a company? But one thing 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.040 I did identify was a gap in the market. Clearly 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.360 there was a gap because the response has been so 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.680 overwhelmingly positive. Touch lots of Wood. We're over a million 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.800 subscribers on YouTube right now, less than a year and 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:30.120 a half in, We're half a million subscribers on substack. 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.800 We've won a Webby for our podcast. People are coming 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.960 to us internationally and domestically because I think they are 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.160 fed up with mainstream media. They are fed up with cable, 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:41.160 they are fed up with the kind of inability to 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.560 cover the rise of fascism at home and the genocide abroad. 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.920 And that gap has been there, and you know, making 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:49.800 a commercial success I'm very proud of. I want to 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.560 build something where even if I said this the other 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:55.120 day in an interview, I said, if I'm run over 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:56.840 by a bus and then my mother rang me into 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.160 never used that phrase again. Don't talk about your death. 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.680 So even if I were to retire and go quietly 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.760 into the night, the company would survive. I'm trying to 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:06.560 build something beyond me. I'm not trying to build the 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.760 mere the huss On network, which is why we've got 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:10.720 great people from around the world as contributors. We've got 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.240 Credit Tunberg and Naomi Klein and Bars some USAF and 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.520 Owen Jones. We got really good people, and that's what 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.000 we're trying to build. We need to build, like you 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.080 guys with the podcast. We're trying to build in these 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.880 spaces where the right have occupied these spaces and own 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.040 these spaces for so long, which is why you get 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.440 a kind of Jubilee crowd because that's where they're dominant online. 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:32.600 That's incredible. Well, I just want to a countray dig 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.360 one thing, which is just because you saw avoid and 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.120 sort to fit in that space didn't mean you'd be 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.720 a rocket success. Your rocket success because your brilliance is 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:41.360 on Ford. 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:41.960 This very much. 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.800 I appreciate when we hear you it is usually backed 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.120 up and substantiated by what we know to be facts. 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.600 Now turn to what we're all living through, which is 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:53.800 a complete disassociation with what facts are. Everybody's got their 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.720 own and none of it connects to anything. We're in 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.440 the throes of what may be an arms race, if 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.600 you will, around redistricting, where we've got these you know, 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:05.600 big states, bohemit of states, including the one that I 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.040 live in, no threatening to do half disential. You know 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.800 five point you know, five years point census redrawing of 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:17.040 districts to basically rig the game so that Republicans have 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.760 a better shot at maintaining control come this midterm election. 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.480 And I'm just curious, based off of your assessment of 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.800 the field, the field of states that are at play 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:29.480 here and where, and which states are helmed by which governors, 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.200 how much do you think Democrats are prepared for this 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.360 arms race and are they really willing? And what I 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.600 mean by that is this potential of meeting Texas where 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:41.960 they're at, which is to say, if you redraw at 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:45.160 this midpoint, we're going to redraw at this midpoint and 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.320 We're going to just fight it out until uh one 0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.040 party has the greatest advantage. Where do you size this 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:52.400 up and where do you think it's going. 0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:55.160 I think you're right to use the phrase Andrew Alms race, 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.480 because it is about trying to get yourself an advantage 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.280 with political weapons. I mean, this is what's so wrong 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.840 with jerry mandering. Let's just make clear, in a perfect world, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:05.520 you wouldn't have jerry mandry. Actually it's not even a 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.400 perfect world. In a normal country, you wouldn't have jerry 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.960 mandrew because every other normal Western democracy does not have 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.840 jerry Manderin Canada, Britain, France, Germany, jerry mandering does not exist. 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.840 They have independent election commissions. Politicians don't get to pick 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.440 their voters. Voters get to pick their politicians. In the 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.360 United States, we have jerry mandreing on steroids now and 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:26.119 thanks to the Supreme Court. And yeah, I'm glad that 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.120 we have some democratic governors now willing to at least 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:30.280 talk the talk. Let's see if they do it. But 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.880 Gavin Newsom in California, Pritzker in Illinois, and even Hockel, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:35.920 who I'm not a fan of in New York came 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.120 out this week, saying, you know, I'm not with one 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.359 hand behind my back. Maybe that's the Mamdani effect there, 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:43.000 I say, but I'm not going to fight with one 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.600 hand behind my back. She said, Let's see if they 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.119 actually do it. The problem we have, Andrew, of course, 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.880 is that a lot of Democratic run states have already 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.200 done the right thing and did independent registricts. So in Michigan, 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:55.679 for example, they had a referendum, they won the referendum, 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.919 they brought in independent So even if Gretchen Whitmer wanted 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:02.960 to match Greg Abbotts cynicism and rigging, she can't. So 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.159 there is a limit to what democratic states can do. 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:07.600 I believe I'm not an expert on this, that Newsome 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.840 can redistrict in California despite them having an independent body 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.040 because the independent body would kick it in twenty thirty 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:15.800 or some such technicality. But look, one hundred percent, they 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.080 have to fight fire with fire. It's the only it's 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:22.080 the only language that Republicans understand. I interviewed James Tallarico 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.880 this week, the Texas state rep who's out in now 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.680