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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Curic and this is next question.

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Speaker 1: First of all, how are you all holding up? I

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Speaker 1: know I am completely overwhelmed by the state of this

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Speaker 1: ongoing pandemic. The omicron surge, as many of you know,

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Speaker 1: has brought the highest rate of COVID cases in this

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Speaker 1: country since the start of the pandemic. It's exhausting, to

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Speaker 1: say the least, which is why I wanted to jump

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Speaker 1: into your feed to share an urgent conversation I just

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Speaker 1: had with Dr Anthony Fauci. Of course, by now you're

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Speaker 1: well aware he's the chief Medical Officer to the President

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Speaker 1: and the director of the National Institute of Allergy and

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Speaker 1: Infectious Diseases. So let's just get right to it. Dr Fauci.

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Speaker 1: Let me start with the latest news the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: block President Biden's vaccine or testing mandate for large businesses.

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Speaker 1: What is your reaction to that ruling? Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously we want to get as many people vaccinated as

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Speaker 1: we pause sibly, can it be so clear? Every time

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Speaker 1: more statistics come out, it shows you the extraordinary dichotomy

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Speaker 1: between people vaccinated versus unvaccinated. When you're talking about hospitalizations

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Speaker 1: and deaths. The difference is stunning, certainly, and I think

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Speaker 1: to clarify it because we don't want people to think

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Speaker 1: that getting vaccinated, particularly with a macron, which is a

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Speaker 1: highly highly transmissible variant, that people who are vaccinated and

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Speaker 1: boosted will get infected. There's no doubt about that those

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Speaker 1: are breakthrough infections. But the one thing that the vaccine

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Speaker 1: does do is not only protect people against infection but

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Speaker 1: not completely, but it is very good at preventing you

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Speaker 1: from hospitalizations and debts. So I'm it's unfortunate that an

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Speaker 1: attempt two two promote a public health measure has been

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Speaker 1: met with such resist because it is really for the

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Speaker 1: purpose of the health of the nation that those requirements

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Speaker 1: were proposed by the president, and it's unfortunate that somehow

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Speaker 1: or other it's not understood in that context, but it's

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Speaker 1: understood in the context of taken people's liberties away from

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Speaker 1: them when we're really dealing with the public health crisis.

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Speaker 1: The Biden administration has announced it's purchasing an additional five

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Speaker 1: million tests for distribution to Americans, doubling the government's previous commitment.

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Speaker 1: Is testing now the best way out of this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: Dr Fauci and why wasn't that prioritized earlier. Well, testing

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Speaker 1: is one of the multifaceted components of how you control

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Speaker 1: an outbreak. It is it is a part of the

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Speaker 1: comprehensive plan. The most potent element of that plan is

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Speaker 1: vaccination with boosting, but there's also masking, UH, prudent travel, UH, avoiding,

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Speaker 1: congregate settings UM, and testing. So testing is an important part.

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Speaker 1: So so that's the context in which you put testing.

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Speaker 1: There were a contracts for testing that we're unfortunately let

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Speaker 1: essentially expire, if you want to call it that, after

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Speaker 1: it became clear that we were dealing with a situation

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Speaker 1: where it looked like with the vaccine was going to

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Speaker 1: get us out of it. But then we got surprised.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have to admit that the President himself

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Speaker 1: said we should have done better, and having admitted that,

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Speaker 1: which is is his characteristic to not run away from

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Speaker 1: the facts and say we could have done better, should

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Speaker 1: have done better. And that's the reason why we're dealing

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Speaker 1: with the situation now where we're amplifying the testing capability dramatically,

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Speaker 1: not only the additional five millions s, but also opening

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Speaker 1: up of you know, at least ten thousand testing sites

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Speaker 1: and have pharmacies twenty thousand pharmacies, have it available and

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Speaker 1: getting it stocked so people can get it. You can

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Speaker 1: get on an online situation, order them and be sent

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Speaker 1: to your you know, it's it's the it's the kind

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Speaker 1: of things that we're trying to catch up on, something

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Speaker 1: that could have been done better. Absolutely, we were inundated

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Speaker 1: with questions from my followers on social media. First off,

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Speaker 1: the vast majority of them, Dr Fauci wanted me to

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Speaker 1: thank you for your service, and many asked, how are

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Speaker 1: you holding up, particularly in light of recent criticism you're

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Speaker 1: getting from certain members of Congress and the media. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not just criticism, and well, first of all,

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Speaker 1: thank your your followers who are who are caring about me.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing fine. I mean, obviously it is a

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Speaker 1: lot of pressure, but I think people need to understand

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Speaker 1: you have to separate criticis is M from outright character

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Speaker 1: assassination and out homing ums and lies. So when we

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Speaker 1: had the hearing the other day, which I think they're

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Speaker 1: referring to, many members on the Republican side like Mitt

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Speaker 1: Romney and Senator Collins and Senator Burr and Senator Moran

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Speaker 1: and and and even Senator Superville. Uh, we're asking difficult

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Speaker 1: questions and we're criticizing the administration. That's valid, that's what

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Speaker 1: That's what congressional and Senate hearings before to help looking

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Speaker 1: forward to get things done better. But what was going

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Speaker 1: on was me was outright completely misinformation character assassination, which

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Speaker 1: is a big difference between criticism and out hominum. In fact,

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Speaker 1: you accused Senator Rampaul of using a catastrophic epidemic for

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Speaker 1: his political gain. Why do you think public how has

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Speaker 1: become so politicized? Well, I mean, I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: I'm just very troubled that it has been. Because if

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Speaker 1: there's one thing that you want the country to do

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Speaker 1: when you're dealing with a catastrophic pandemic the likes of

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Speaker 1: which we have not experienced and over a hundred years,

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Speaker 1: you have to realize that you have a common enemy.

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Speaker 1: And I've said so many times the common enemy is

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Speaker 1: the virus. And when you have a common enemy that

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Speaker 1: is a powerful, potentially catastrophic enemy, the only way you're

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Speaker 1: going to really win the war as quickly as you

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Speaker 1: possibly can is by pulling together. There are political differences

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Speaker 1: which are fine. We've had political differences, you know, since

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Speaker 1: politics began, so there's nothing wrong with that. But when

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Speaker 1: the divisiveness gets in the way of what are commonly

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Speaker 1: accepted public health measures, then it becomes counterproductive. But but Kenny,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why it's happening. It's just you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need a lot of political sociologists to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why, but it's unfortunate. You've talked about

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Speaker 1: receiving death threats. One person was apprehended last month with

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Speaker 1: an a R fifteen who said he was on his

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Speaker 1: way to Washington to kill a number of public officials,

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Speaker 1: including yourself. Um, have you increased security for you and

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Speaker 1: your family? I have had good security for some time now. Um.

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Speaker 1: They are very competent and very capable. Um, so it

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Speaker 1: isn't a question of increasing the amount of security. It's

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Speaker 1: just increasing the alertness and the care. Uh So they're

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Speaker 1: very very much you know, on high high alert when

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Speaker 1: you hear something like that. That's not the first time

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Speaker 1: a credible threat has led to an arrest. And we

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Speaker 1: try to keep that not too public because you don't

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Speaker 1: want to get people to get old excited about that.

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Speaker 1: But but no, I'm very confident in my security people.

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Speaker 1: We'll continue my conversation with Dr Fauci right after this.

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Speaker 1: We've seen a record breaking number of new cases, as

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Speaker 1: you well know, seven eighty thousand infections every day being

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Speaker 1: reported in the US, and an internal government document that

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Speaker 1: was obtained by The New York Times suggests will approach

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Speaker 1: more than a million a day by the end of

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Speaker 1: the month. There's been an eighty four percent increase in

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Speaker 1: hospitalization of increase in death. So the big question everyone

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Speaker 1: is asking is when do you see this thing peaking? Yeah, Kenny,

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Speaker 1: I'd like to be able to give you an accurate prediction,

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Speaker 1: but we don't know because when you say this thing,

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Speaker 1: you're referring to the entire pandemic. When we have seen

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Speaker 1: peaks and diminutions of different waves led by different variants,

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Speaker 1: the alpha, the Beita, the delta, and now Amicron really

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Speaker 1: spiked up very very high in South Africa. It has

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Speaker 1: come down as abruptly as it has gone up. We're

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Speaker 1: starting to see that same turnaround in the UK, particularly

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Speaker 1: in London, which is the epicenter, and we're starting to

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Speaker 1: see the beginning of a hints of a turnaround in

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Speaker 1: New York City, which was very hard. If all of

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Speaker 1: that comes down and we get to the point where

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Speaker 1: we continue hopefully to get more people vaccinated and boosted

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Speaker 1: and people at here to the kinds of mitigation methods,

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Speaker 1: I hope that we're getting to the point where the

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Speaker 1: level of control will be low enough that we will

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Speaker 1: be able to not have it disrupt our lives and

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Speaker 1: dominate us the way it has over the last two years.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you when that will happen. I can

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Speaker 1: tell you what will make it happen sooner rather than later,

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Speaker 1: and it's the things I mentioned. Yes, Well, the reason is,

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Speaker 1: when you say living with it, you want to get

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Speaker 1: to the point where the overwhelming proportion of the population

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Speaker 1: has either been vaccinated, boosted, and has either been infected

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Speaker 1: and had their immunity boosted after infections, so that the

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Speaker 1: virus isn't disappearing, Katie, but it isn't such that a

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Speaker 1: high enough proportion of people wind up getting seriously ill,

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Speaker 1: hospitalizing and dying that the society is in fear, is

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Speaker 1: gripped in fear that people mostly obviously the vulnerable, the elderly,

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Speaker 1: those with underlying conditions. But the thing that people don't

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Speaker 1: understand is that it isn't just people in extended care

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Speaker 1: facilities and nursing home are vulnerable. There are many, many

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Speaker 1: people out living their life's who have obesity, diabetes, who

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Speaker 1: are on chemotherapy for breast cancer, prostate cancer transplants. There

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Speaker 1: are a lot of people out there that are really

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Speaker 1: very vulnerable. So you want to get the level of

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Speaker 1: infection so low and to get people as protected as

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Speaker 1: you can that it doesn't disrupt our lives. But the

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Speaker 1: US is still at a sixt vaccination rate, but it's

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Speaker 1: also reported over sixty three million cases. So are we

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Speaker 1: approaching her immunity? You know again, her immunity is a

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Speaker 1: very very elusive term, you know it really it depends

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Speaker 1: what you mean. If her immunity means there's no infection

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Speaker 1: in the community at all because everyone is vaccinated, Christine,

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Speaker 1: herd immunity is when you have something like measles. We

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Speaker 1: have of the population of the population has vaccinated, so

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Speaker 1: you've essentially eliminated it from society, not from the world,

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Speaker 1: but from society. Is the most true with polio. But

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about now is that you might want

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Speaker 1: enough herd immunity so that you get infected maybe, but

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Speaker 1: you don't get sick. So it's sort of like a

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Speaker 1: version of herd immunity against severe disease as opposed to

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Speaker 1: herd immunity against any infection. Got it. People are now

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Speaker 1: testing positive for the second or third time since the

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Speaker 1: pandemic began, even after getting vaccinated and boosted. So why

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Speaker 1: aren't we seeing Dr fauci these double and in some

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Speaker 1: cases triple infections. Yeah, And the reason is that this

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Speaker 1: is a highly transmissible virus that you have to look

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Speaker 1: at it in the compartments that it infects. So if

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Speaker 1: you get infected in your upper airway and you getting

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Speaker 1: it goes through the lung and goes throughout the body,

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Speaker 1: you get a iramic state predominantly in the lung. Is

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Speaker 1: that you can get very very seriously ill. But getting

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Speaker 1: the virus to be blocking from re coming back into

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Speaker 1: upper airway, you really have to have the immune system

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Speaker 1: concentrated at the upper airway, which is not easy to

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Speaker 1: do when you have a vaccine that systemically is given

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Speaker 1: to you and that you have a systemic manifestation of disease.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why in the common cold

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Speaker 1: coronaviruses that have been here decades before stars came. There

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Speaker 1: were four coronaviruses that's circulated and recirculated usually in the

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Speaker 1: cold winter months that you and I, Katie, I guarantee

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Speaker 1: you we've been infected multiple times with these coronaviruses. But

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Speaker 1: they are benign enough that you may get some sniffles,

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Speaker 1: a little sore throat, It goes away in a day

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Speaker 1: or two, but the immunity isn't profound so that when

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Speaker 1: you get exposed again, you get infected. That's what we

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Speaker 1: believe we're seeing with the pandemic coronaviruses. With macrons specifically,

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Speaker 1: well we don't know. I'm a chrom but we do

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Speaker 1: know one thing that a macron is reinfecting people who

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Speaker 1: are infected with delta and infected with beta. Is absolute

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Speaker 1: data on that that if you are prior infected with

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Speaker 1: a different variant, a macron much more readily can reinfect

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Speaker 1: you then the actual original variant that infected you, which

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Speaker 1: brings me to my next question asked by one of

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Speaker 1: my newsletter readers, Dr. Fauci, was so many people unvaccinated,

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Speaker 1: both domestically and globally. How can we be assured that

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Speaker 1: the future variants won't grow smarter, more resistant to vaccines,

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Speaker 1: and more transmissible. Well, you know, here's ripeness for a

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Speaker 1: sound bite, Okay, because if you know, the reason I

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Speaker 1: say that is, you got to put it in context.

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Speaker 1: You've got to keep the possibility of anything happening and

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Speaker 1: being prepared for it. So if you say that can happen,

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Speaker 1: people say, oh my goodness, Dr Faucci said this is

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Speaker 1: gonna happen. I'm not saying that that's gonna happen. I'm

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Speaker 1: saying you've got to be prepared for any eventuality, which

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Speaker 1: is the reason why one of the things we're putting

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Speaker 1: a lot of effort in is to develop what we

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Speaker 1: call a universal coronavirus or a pan coronavirus vaccine, or

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Speaker 1: at least a Pan sauce coronavirus vaccine, which means you

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Speaker 1: can get all the iterations of the variants to be covered,

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Speaker 1: so that you may not prevent infection from another variant,

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Speaker 1: but you certainly will prevent severe disease from another variant.

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Speaker 1: How close were we to developing something like that? Dr Fauci,

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Speaker 1: You know, Katie, it's scientific discovery, So you can't predict

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Speaker 1: if we had it in hand and you said how

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Speaker 1: long would it take to do a clinical trial and

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Speaker 1: get some proof? I could give you a number, but

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Speaker 1: you have to get the right scientific elements in place,

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Speaker 1: the right plan formed, the right imaagen design. I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you when that will be. I hope it will

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Speaker 1: be reasonably soon, but it would be folly to give

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Speaker 1: a date of prediction. We got a lot of questions

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Speaker 1: about boosters. Do you mind if I ask you some

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Speaker 1: quick questions about I have to go to something else, Katie,

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Speaker 1: So maybe just two more questions and then tell us

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Speaker 1: about boosters. UM, some elderly received THEIRS in the fall,

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Speaker 1: which means the six month mark is coming up in

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Speaker 1: a couple of months. So when will people get be

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Speaker 1: eligible for another booster? And UM, at what point do

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Speaker 1: you see this moving from a pandemic to an endemic? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so those are two questions, right, I know I snucked

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Speaker 1: them in DR al Right, So what one of the

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Speaker 1: things that people asking is a reasonable question? We do

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Speaker 1: not know yet fully what the durability of the third

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Speaker 1: booster shot of an M R and A and the

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Speaker 1: second shot of A J and j R. When we

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Speaker 1: see that if we see it both from a laboratory

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Speaker 1: and a clinical standpoint, go down to the point where

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Speaker 1: it's breaking through and people are getting ill despite that boost,

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Speaker 1: then very likely there'll be a recommendation for another shot.

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Speaker 1: But we still need to find out really what is

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Speaker 1: the durability. That's the answer to your first question. The

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Speaker 1: second question is really related to the question you asked

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Speaker 1: me before. We can't predict that. We hope that ultimately,

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Speaker 1: sooner rather than later, we get enough people vaccinated boosted

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Speaker 1: and those who have been infected enhance their immunity by

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Speaker 1: getting vaccinated, that there's enough of a veil of protection

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Speaker 1: in the community that even if there is another variant

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Speaker 1: that in fact we'll be able to essentially diminish the

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Speaker 1: impact because of the already existing immunity. But again without

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Speaker 1: scaring anybody, there is a possibility that there will be

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Speaker 1: another variant, and we've got to be prepared for it.

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Speaker 1: I know you're gonna kill me. Can I ask you

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Speaker 1: about kids under five? Because so many people, so many people,

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Speaker 1: Dr Fauci said, I have little children under five. What

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Speaker 1: is the current timeline for them to be vaccinated? Joe, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's a good question. Katie, So I'll answer to that

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Speaker 1: one because everybody's asking that. So the original studies, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at children from six months to twenty four months

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Speaker 1: and then twenty four months to four years, and the

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Speaker 1: data on the children from six months to twenty four months,

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Speaker 1: given the dose they got, looked really good. It was

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Speaker 1: non inferior in its effect to the adults. However, the

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Speaker 1: group from twenty four months to four years, it fell

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Speaker 1: short of that. So it is likely that all of

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Speaker 1: them will require three doses. Those studies are going on

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Speaker 1: right now and the FDA will be looking very carefully

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Speaker 1: at that. It certainly would hopefully be within the next

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Speaker 1: two but I don't want to even say that because

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Speaker 1: you don't want to get ahead of the data and

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Speaker 1: you don't want to get ahead of the of the FDA.

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Speaker 1: But I hope that it will be soon. Dr Fauci,

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Speaker 1: thanks for your time. Look forward to talking to you

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Speaker 1: again soon. Really appreciate it. All right, thank you, It's

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Speaker 1: always good to be with you, Katie. Thank you. Next

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Speaker 1: Question with Katie Kurik is a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Media and Katie Curic Media. The executive producers Army, Katie

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Speaker 1: Couric and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.

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Speaker 1: Associate producers Derek Clements and Adriana Fasio. The show is

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Speaker 1: edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information about

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