1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Evan Novie Williams, and I'm Glinch and I'm 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Michael Barr. And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: where we explore the big money issues in the world 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: of sports today. We begin with baseball, but not the MLB. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk baseball in Taiwan. The games underway in full 6 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: swing there, and that been maybe Major League Baseball can 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: take some cues from what we're seeing in Taiwan. Yeah, guys, 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: let's start with some optimism on a on a Monday morning. 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: The Taiwanese Baseball League just finished the first week of 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: its regular season. It is having games without fans. There 11 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: are mannequins, there are robot drummers, there are cheerleaders, but 12 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: there is baseball um and I think that you know, 13 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: it's obviously a very different situation in Taiwan, virus wise 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: related to what's happening here in the US. But the 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: idea that a league that was supposed to start in March, 16 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: which had to delay it start because of the virus 17 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: is now up and running and having some success, I 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: think probably makes you know, Major League Baseball owners and 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: probably owners in all of the major North American leagues 20 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: a little excited Mike Lynch kind of what are your 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: takeaways from the fact that Taiwan delated season, got it 22 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: up and running, seems to be doing it in a 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: healthy way, and is now a week through its regular season. Well, 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: my first thought was the I can only assume that 25 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: the happiest people are the umpires because nobody is booing 26 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: them a question and are calls unless unless we can 27 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: add lad voices to those cardboard cutouts, And what do 28 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: you do with your the home team? Do you just 29 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: put more cardboard cutouts on the home team side behind 30 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: their dugout as opposed to the other dug out. One 31 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: thing we should point out here is that there's very 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: few cases apparently of COVID nineteen uh in Taiwan compared 33 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: to other places around the world. And I think that's 34 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: why they got the jump start on everybody. But I 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of lessons to be learned here. 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: I still uh and I voiced this before the social 37 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 1: distancing you have there's always a crowd at home plate 38 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: between the umpire, the catcher and the batter. And then 39 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: when a first baseman is holding on a runner at 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: first base, you know, the sort of you lose your 41 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: social distancing there. But other than that, I think it's 42 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: a pretty good idea. They pipe in um music, as 43 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: you said, and they have robots banging on drums, and 44 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: they allow the cheerleaders to come in mascots. Even the 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: media allowed into the games. Yeah. And so you know, 46 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: when you look at one of these games, between the players, 47 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: the umpires, the cheerleaders, media, you said, cameramen, et cetera, 48 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: staff for the ballpark, it sounds like there's about a 49 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty to two hundred people in the building 50 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: at one time during a game, which is you know, 51 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: probably a fairly manageable one to do a little more 52 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: detailed in the idea of you know, all the US 53 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: leagues are talking about holding their sport in a bubble. 54 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: You know, the NBA going to Vegas, Major League Baseball 55 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: going to the desert in Arizona. That is not what 56 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: what the Taiwan Baseball League is doing. The players are 57 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: living at home. They're allowed to do that. Uh, there's 58 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: no you know, day by day testing. Uh they are 59 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: or you know, there's some restrictions on what these players 60 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: can do when they're on the road, obviously because they 61 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: don't want to maybe contaminated city by city, but for 62 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: the most part, these players are living kind of normal lives. Uh. 63 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: And one big caveat which again is is the big 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: worry for North American sports leagues. If one player test 65 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: positive or I'm sure if one coach or one umpire 66 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: test positive, the entire Taiwanese Baseball league is going to 67 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: grind to a halt for at least a two week period, right. So, 68 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: so they are always one mistake, one bad situation away 69 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 1: from the thing coming coming to a grinding halt. UM. 70 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: But Michael, you know we are, as Mike Lynch said, 71 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, the situation with the virus in Taiwan is 72 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,240 Speaker 1: is way more under control than it is here here 73 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: in the US. UM. But again, do you do you 74 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 1: think that there is Uh? If you're Major League Baseball, 75 00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: how closely do you think you're watching not just the 76 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: fact that they're doing this, but the little things like, 77 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: you know, the music being played, the robot drummers, they 78 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: anikins in the stands, just the way they're presenting the 79 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: game as well. Well, when you said they were like 80 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: about two hundred people in the building, I was thinking, well, 81 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: that's a Tigers game from last season. But definitely, Uh, 82 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: New York, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, he said this, 83 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: and and this could happen. He said, yeah, this could 84 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: be a thing. Uh. He said this during one of 85 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 1: his press briefings. He said, yes, be creative, try to 86 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: figure it out. But he said, if owners, if players 87 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: can get paid more than staying at home, and the 88 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: owners will get some revenue versus total shutdown, why not Evan. Yeah, 89 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: And and these teams, you know they're selling you know, 90 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: they're they're selling better English broadcasting rights. I think they're 91 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: getting more international fans than they ever have just because 92 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: they're the only things playing. One more kind of piece 93 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 1: of cold water. Just to put in perspective, the Taiwanese 94 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: Baseball League is four teams. The regular season is a 95 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: two forty games. I believe Major League Baseball obviously thirty 96 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: teams more than regular season games. So obviously the scale 97 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: is very different. But there's certainly optimism to see baseball 98 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: being played elsewhere. Um, and that kind of transitions Michael 99 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: Well to our next topic about one of the first 100 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 1: US North American leagues that's probably going to be back 101 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: in action. Yeah, let's talk about mixed martial arts and 102 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: the Ultimate Fighting Championship they're keeping going throughout all this uncertainty, Van, 103 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: What do you think about all of this? Yeah, so UFC, 104 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: you know, we talked a couple of weeks ago about 105 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: their kind of failed attempt to end around regulators to 106 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: host events at in Tribal Land in California. The new 107 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: plan right now certainly feels a bit more realistic is 108 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: to have three events May nine, May and May sixteen, 109 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: all in Florida at an arena in Jacksonville. Um. Again, 110 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: this is not kind of a skirt around any regulations. 111 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: They will be you know, conducting everything within the bounds 112 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: of what Florida is allowed to do. Remember, you know, 113 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: Florida was the first state and I believe the only 114 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 1: one right now to say the professional sports were an 115 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: essential business. So so no coincidence that UFC ended up there. 116 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: But Mike Lynch, we were, I think all of us 117 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: kind of fairly critical about this plan for UFC to 118 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: do this in Tribal Land a few weeks ago in California. 119 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: How do we feel about, you know, them deciding that 120 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: Florida is a place to do it where they have 121 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: the the okay, of regulators in local government. I don't 122 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: think it really makes any difference, because they mean, our 123 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,359 Speaker 1: number one concern is these guys are you know, obviously 124 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 1: they're just body contact the entire time that there that 125 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: they're fighting with each other, and it's just a question 126 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: of like they found a place where they get permission 127 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: to do it by the state categorizing as you said, 128 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: entertainment workers as essential. Um, I know they're gonna take 129 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: temperature checks, will be medical screening, etcetera, etcetera. The big 130 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: thing here is it just sounds so desperate to me 131 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,679 Speaker 1: because unlike other professional athletes who have guaranteed contracts, these 132 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: UFC fighters, if they don't compete, they don't get paid. 133 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: So I think a lot of them are very desperate 134 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: right now, not only to compete, but also to get paid. 135 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: And they found someplace. Um it's kind of like when 136 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: you've when you've got some diagnosis, what's with the doctor? 137 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: You keep going to five or six different doctors to 138 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: hear the diagnosis that you want to hear, whether whether 139 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: or not it's the it's the right right diagnosis or 140 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the truth or not. This is what this seems to me, 141 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: that they're they're going someplace all over the planet to 142 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: find some place that that says it's okay, you can 143 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: do this here. I would argue that there there is 144 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: also probably a little bit of desperation from the owners 145 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: of UFC. You know, we've talked on the podcast. You know, 146 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: in the past when when UFC was sold for four 147 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: billion dollars to Endeavor silver Lake and KKR, Endeavor took 148 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: on a pretty significant amount of debt to make that 149 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: transaction happen. And in good times when when UFC is 150 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: up and running, you know, it spends off a lot 151 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: of cash to pay for that debt service. At times 152 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: when it's not, you know that that puts Endeavor in 153 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 1: a in a tight situation. And and UFC has these 154 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 1: these big ESPN deals. I believe there's three of them. 155 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: One's a streaming deal, one's a linear television deal, and 156 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: one is a pay per view deal, all with ESPN. 157 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: And when you combine them, UFC essentially has to give 158 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: I believe it's forty two events a year to ESPN 159 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: to satisfy that contract. You know, they play. I think 160 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: believe they had eight events then everything went on the hold. 161 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how many weeks there are left in 162 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: the year, but it's probably in the mid thirties. They're 163 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: kind of running up against that number already right now. 164 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons why when they 165 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: do these events in Florida in May, there's three in 166 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: a week, you know, May nineteenth, May thirteenth, May sixteen, 167 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: They're gonna cram some of these in in the same 168 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: way that I would expect Major League Baseball to have 169 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: a lot of double headers, just because a lot of 170 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: these media contracts exist with minimum games that I required. 171 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: So so I think that's one of the reasons why 172 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna see that. Michael, what do you think of 173 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: as the opportunity here for UFC. Let's say May ninth 174 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: rolls around. You know, we're not gonna have NBA, We're 175 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: not gonna have NHL, We're not going to have Major 176 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: League Baseball. UFC could be again the only game in town, 177 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: as they were. I leave that that that big weekend 178 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: in in March after everything else shut down. What's the 179 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: opportunity here, if they can do this in a smart 180 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 1: and safe way, what's the opportunity here for UFC? Forgive 181 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: the vernacular, but they can get paid big time because 182 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: they will be the only game in town, the number 183 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: one revenue, not only for UFC but for any major sport. 184 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: It's the media rights, the money, money money. You've got 185 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: to have a product to televise. If you have something, 186 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: people will watch it. They will. And as Mark Cuban 187 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: had said a few days ago when he talked about 188 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: not having fans in the stands, it's still have made 189 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: for TV event if you televise it. And that's the 190 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: same thing it's going to be for UFC and mixed 191 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: martial arts. People will watch it of it. No, I agree, yeah, 192 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: and and and and Mike Lynch, you had mentioned the 193 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: the athletes themselves. You know, we heard from Happy Walter's 194 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: NBA agent on the podcast last week that that the 195 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: NBA players are also itching to play. I think there 196 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: is kind of you know, not all of them, but 197 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: a lot of athletes who are sitting at home right 198 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: now who are thinking about, you know, their financial futures 199 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: and their financial currents are all also I think, kind 200 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: of aligned with their commissioners, with the with the owners 201 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: of their leagues, with the executives in their leagues, all 202 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: kind of trying to get back to this sense of normalcy. 203 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: One other thing I will add before we move on. 204 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,199 Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the Taiwanese Baseball League, a 205 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,959 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty to two hundred people in a stadium 206 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: at a time. One of the benefits to UFC is 207 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: that they can do this with significantly fewer numbers. I 208 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: think if you include the fighters, their trainers, and then 209 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: all the staff you know, media, um, you know, cameraman. 210 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: I believe that they feel like they can do these 211 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: UFC fights with with maybe seventy five people total or 212 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 1: even less. You know, So there is you know, it's 213 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 1: a it's a much fewer ask, it's less personnel than 214 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: even what you're seeing in in Taiwan right now. Finally 215 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: there could be a merger in the world of tennis. 216 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: I mean, it looks like some remarks from Roger Federer 217 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: are adding fuel to that fire. Yeah, so there there's 218 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: there's been conversation really for decades. I think Billy Jean 219 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: King was talking about this in the seventies, this idea 220 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: of of merging, you know, the business interests of men's 221 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: and women's tennis. Right now, they're they're too fully separate. Tours, 222 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: the a TP for the men and the w t 223 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: A for the women. But Roger Federer, who is obviously 224 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: a loud voice within the tennis world, someone who holds 225 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: a lot of sway, uh, put this out on Twitter. 226 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: Uh last week, just kind of tossed it out there 227 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 1: and hey, maybe it's time to think about, you know, 228 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: or or get a little bit more serious about potentially 229 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: merging the two things. Immediately, a number of players, Rafael 230 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: on the Doll, Uh, Simona Halla Petrovitova, Billy Jean King, 231 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people you know, chimed in and said, 232 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: I agree, I think this is a good idea. Uh. 233 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: Certainly one of those things that the more you dive 234 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: into the details, the harder it kind of is to 235 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: see it happen. But Mike Lynch, you know, we're in 236 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: this time where all sports are struggling financially. Tennis is 237 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: definitely on on the higher end I think of that 238 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: list in terms of you know, sports, you know, global 239 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: that that are really struggling. Uh, is do you think 240 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: there's a chance that, you know, because of just the 241 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: tough times that we're in right now, we may see 242 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: spur to action on an idea that's been bounced around 243 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: for decades, but no one has ever, you know, kind 244 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: of fully taken to the finish line. Well, it sort 245 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: of reminds me of what happened to boxing when we 246 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: used to just have the heavyweight, middleweight, lightweight champion of 247 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: the World, and then we went to the w b A, 248 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: the WBC, the A f l C. I oh, I mean, 249 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: there were just so many different categories for for for 250 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: boxing champions that were so confusing. And tennis is a 251 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: little bit like this now. And we know we've where 252 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: you going to watch the Davis Cup of the FedEx 253 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: fed Cup and a w t A event and a 254 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: t P event, and you know, I think if they 255 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: if they could simplify a merger and simplify their TV contracts, uh, 256 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: you'd have to satisfy the sponsors. And again it's goin 257 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: to come down to eyeballs. They're more eyeballs on the 258 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: men's competition or on the women's competition. Now we all 259 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: know what a great show it is in the four 260 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: major events with Wimbledon, Australia and French and US Opens. 261 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: But but some of the other events, so they're all 262 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: split up. It's a men's tournament or it's a Women's Tournament, 263 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: and it's gonna come down to uh two sponsors. It's 264 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: gonna come down to the TV contract. And now they're 265 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 1: talking about having equal prize money, which obviously is a 266 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: spectacular idea. But will the sponsors go for it? That's 267 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: the big question. Yeah, so you you just hit on 268 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 1: the reason why it hasn't happened. The main reason why 269 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: it hasn't happened yet is that the a TP, the 270 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: Men's Tour, is a much bigger commercial property than the 271 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,680 Speaker 1: women's Tour. You know, if if you add in all 272 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: the not just the big events, but also the weekly 273 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: events as well. And I think the a TP is 274 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: kind of historically balked at the idea of some kind 275 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: of merger in which it was using its own resources 276 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: to prop up the women's game. And I think there's 277 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 1: kind of two levels here, one of which being there's 278 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: definitely a way to streamline this so this is a 279 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: better experience for fans, right. The a t P and 280 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: the w t A have two different logos, they have 281 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: two different websites, they have two different ranking systems, Their 282 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: rules are different. You know, there is in match coaching 283 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: in the w t A, but not on the A 284 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 1: t P Uh they play separately most events each each week. Uh, 285 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: that there's a lot in there that I think maybe 286 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: confuses fans, maybe makes the barrier to entry a little bigger. 287 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: And also, you know, I think maybe you know, you 288 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: add leverage if you're negotiating as one kind of all 289 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: powerful tennis entity versus what you're doing right now. And 290 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: then the second tier, which is obviously the more complicated one, 291 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: is if you're gonna host, you're gonna do events together 292 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: all the time. That either means the event needs to 293 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: be every event needs to be twice as big, or 294 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: suddenly it's half as many men's players and women's players 295 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: at each event, which obviously affects the prize money. My 296 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: guess is, if you were to pull the A t 297 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: P players, the ones who are not Roger Federer or 298 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: Raphael on the doll are probably the ones who are 299 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: a little more wary of this because they're worried about 300 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: maybe what it means for for them kind of fighting 301 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: on the bubble every week. Um, Michael, you know, going 302 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: back to that part about fans, do you think there's 303 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: a point there to be made that that if you 304 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: make tennis maybe a little less confusing, make it just 305 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: a one stop shop for fans that it might actually 306 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: drive some revenue. Oh yeah, And I one thing I've 307 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: never understood, and when you bring this up, out of 308 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: all of the female sports that are out there, the 309 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: major ones, I always thought tennis superseded all those other 310 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: sports in terms of people getting eyeballs to to watch it. 311 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: I it's it seems like this idea is something that 312 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: is long overdue. They would definitely be an audience. And yes, 313 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna have tournaments where you're not gonna have fans 314 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: in the stands. It's going to be like that for 315 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: a while with a lot of sports. But I always 316 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: thought that this should have happened. I think Roger Federer 317 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: had the right idea. Yeah, when you may make a 318 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: good point when you kind of look at the highest 319 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: paid women and women's athletes in the world, the list 320 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: is always dominated by female tennis players. You know, they are, 321 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: as you said, they're their front and center in the 322 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: sports world and and and the sports zeitgeist more so 323 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: than almost any other female athletes out there. And there 324 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: are times, you know, certainly at big events often where 325 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: the women's game outdraws from a from a rating standpoint, 326 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: the men's one. I think the big problem is that 327 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: when you get you know, outside of the US Open, 328 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: outside of the French Open, outside of Wimbledon, you know, 329 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: the smaller events commercially are just so much bigger when 330 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: it's a men's event versus a women's event. But yes, again, 331 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: I think that the big question here is is how 332 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: much the coronavirus is going to affect the business here 333 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: and as a result, you know, how how much it 334 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: might actually push to the forefront ideas that under normal 335 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: circumstances never would have happened. But because of you know, 336 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: the unfortunate situation that you know, all these administrators and 337 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: executives find themselves in, uh, they might get pushed forward. Now, 338 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast at Michael 339 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: Barr along with Mike Lynch and Evan W. Williams. We're 340 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: here each and every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday exploring the 341 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: world of money in sports. Join us again at the 342 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: end of the week when we speak with the biggest 343 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: and brightest in the sports business world, and subscribe to 344 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business of Sports show wherever you get your podcasts.