1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to Law and Order Criminal Justice System, a 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: production of Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: In the criminal justice System, landmark trials transcend the courtroom 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 2: to reshape the law. The brave many women who investigate 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 2: and prosecute these cases are part of a select group 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: that is defined American history. These are their stories. August seventeenth, 7 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, Eltingville, Staten Island. 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: The pickup was scheduled for just past nine sunny. Black 9 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: Nepolitano placed his keys on the bar, along with his 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,599 Speaker 1: prize diamond pinky ring and. 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 3: A wat of cash. 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: He told the bartender he had a sinking feeling that 13 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: he wouldn't be needing them anymore. Sonny got into a 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Lincoln town car which took him over with the Verizano 15 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Bridge to a small house on Staten Island. For years, 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: he had been a good earner for the Banano family, 17 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: but he made one unforgivable mistake. He vouched for someone 18 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: who turned out to be the enemy. 19 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 3: One of the closer Austra rules is if you vouch 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 3: for a guy and he turns bad, it's on you 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,559 Speaker 3: and the penalty could be death. 22 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Sonny knew the score. As he descended the stairs to 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: the basement, the door slam shut behind him and he 24 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: was shoved to the floor. 25 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 4: There was a setup crew, there was a murder crew, 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 4: and there was a cleanup crew, so multiple people involved. 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: The first shot grazed his ear, then he heard the 28 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: gun jam. Sprawled on his knees, Sonny looked up at 29 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: the gunman and said, hit me one more time and 30 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: make it good. The second gunman fired. 31 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: You're not with the mob because you want to be. 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 3: It's the gangster that decides whether you're his associated on 33 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 3: If you like. 34 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 5: Your life, you will vote to acquit. 35 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: I'm aniseg and NICOLASI. 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 3: My father should have been a dead man. 37 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart podcasts. This is law and 38 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:33,239 Speaker 1: order criminal justice system. 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 3: I didn't get hired as an FBI agent. What I 40 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 3: got hired as was a grade to file coler, which 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 3: was a position that doesn't even exist anymore. And my 42 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 3: very first job in the FBI was filing fingerprint cards 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 3: in alphabetical order. 44 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,639 Speaker 1: Extremely exciting work, but I. 45 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 3: Managed to work my way up through the ranks. 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: You can blame it on the hardy boys or shirlofe homes, 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: but Jack Stubing, like many of us, developed a passion 48 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: for crime solving at a young age. He just happened 49 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: to make a career of it, first as a file 50 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: clerk and then eventually as a supervisory special agent at 51 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 1: the FBI. 52 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 3: The first actual organized crime book I ever read was 53 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 3: about the Banano family. When I became a supervisor, I 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 3: tried to instill in young agents that you should know 55 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: the history of these things because it's all about human 56 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 3: relationships and how we got to where we are. And 57 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: it's one of the reasons that at West Point they 58 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 3: study battles that happened a thousand years ago, because the 59 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 3: technology may change, but human beings remain human beings. And 60 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 3: part of success in organized crime investigations is the ability 61 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: to predict the future, basically, and you want to predict 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: what's going to happen before it happens. 63 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: Know your history. Predict all easier said than done, especially 64 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: when you're dealing with an adversary as unpredictable as the 65 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: American mafia with the mobs elaborate org chart of bosses, underbosses, capos, 66 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: and soldiers. Keeping track of the nicknames alone would test 67 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: even the most dedicated of crime solvers. Thankfully, Special Agent 68 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Jack Steubing loved a good mystery, and he had his 69 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: sight set on a big one. Throughout the second half 70 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. The rise and fall of the 71 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: Banano crime family had more twists and turns than an 72 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: act at the Christie novel, and in the years after 73 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: the Commission trial, Jack was tasked with taking them down 74 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: once and for all. 75 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 3: The Bananas were an absolute mess. To put it bluntly, 76 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 3: they had had problems going back to the nineteen sixties. 77 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 3: Joe Banano was the founding member of the Banano family, 78 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 3: but he was also the youngest member of the Commission 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 3: at the time because he was a young, wise guy 80 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: from the Old Country. And even though that he was 81 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 3: on the Commission, he was trying to gather support from 82 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 3: some of the other families to institute himself as the 83 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 3: Boss of bosses. Despite the Commission. Commission got wished to 84 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: this thing before he was able to make his move, 85 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 3: and they chased them out of New York. The titular 86 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 3: Boss was now living in Arizona having been chased out 87 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 3: of New York, and they were rutorless. There were these 88 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 3: constant factions within the family that led to the assassination 89 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 3: actually of Carline Gallante and the rise of Joe Messino. 90 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: The rise and reign of Joe Messino, perhaps the most 91 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: ruthless and resilient of the New York bosses, a man 92 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: who would become known as the Last Don. 93 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: He was a hijacker. He was not an educated man, 94 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 3: but he was a smart man. He was very clever, 95 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 3: very street wise. Obviously, he was brutal, reputed to do 96 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 3: his own work. In other words, he wasn't afraid to 97 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 3: use violence as a tool against somebody personally, wouldn't just 98 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 3: order somebody else. He would participate in acts himself if necessary. 99 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: By the time he was in his thirties, Messino had 100 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 1: earned a coveted role as protege to Rusty Rostelli, who 101 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three had taken over the top spot 102 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: in the Banano family. Messino's appetite also earned him the 103 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 1: nickname Big Joey. 104 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: He was a good earner and he was very interested 105 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 3: in food. He ran a catering business back in the 106 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 3: day before there were the kind of sophisticated food trucks 107 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 3: and stuff that they have now that go to fairs 108 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: and that kind of thing. There were essentially pickup trucks 109 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 3: with stainless steel bodies on the back of them, and 110 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 3: they sold sandwiches to construction sites and places where people 111 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 3: were working out in the field. And in Joe's case, 112 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 3: these trucks were also used there's good mechanisms for taking 113 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: bets and making loan shark loans, and conducting other business 114 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 3: that generated more income for him than selling sandwiches. 115 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: After the Bananas got burned by undercover FBI agent Joe 116 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: Pistone aka Donnie Brasco and were banished from the Commission, 117 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: the family was forced to pivot into new illsicit markets, 118 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: and during that time Joe Messino crew in status. 119 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 3: As the years went by, he grew in power within 120 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 3: the family and became a captain and had his own crew. 121 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 3: He rose through the ranks through guile violence, basically to 122 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 3: head the family after the death of Rusty Rostelli. 123 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: A position he secured in large part thanks to the 124 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine assassination of rival Carma Galante and the 125 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: triple murder of the three Capos in nineteen eighty one. 126 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: And remember, the Bananos had been left largely unscathed by 127 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: the Commission trial, so by the end of the eighties, 128 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: as the other families were weakened by prosecutions and a 129 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: revolving door of turncoats, they were poised to fill that 130 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: power vacuum. As the new head of the family. Messino 131 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: was becoming arguably the most powerful mafia leader in the country, 132 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: not to mention the only full fledged New York boss 133 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: who was not in prison or dead. 134 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 3: Messino, you know, I mean, he's been referred to as 135 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 3: the last Godfather. He was the force to be reckoned with. 136 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: He really was de facto the boss and bosses by 137 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:12,439 Speaker 3: this point. 138 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: And he aimed to keep it that way, determined not 139 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: to make the same mistakes other bosses had made that 140 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: exposed them to federal prosecution. 141 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 3: Messino was pretty sophisticated in a street wise way, but 142 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 3: also he sort of had a fondness for technology. He 143 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: sometimes used the walkie talkies on his operations. He would 144 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 3: have electronic sweeps of his social club to detect bugs. 145 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 3: There's a famous story that they had installed a bug 146 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: in one of his clubs and he managed to find 147 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 3: it within two days. So he was somebody who was 148 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 3: constantly on guard against infiltration. 149 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: Just as Vincent Gigante was called the Chin earned a 150 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: similarly descriptive nickname, he was known as the. 151 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 3: Ear It's like Valdemort, he who must not be named. 152 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 3: The ear Thing was partially this myth that Messino created 153 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 3: for himself, where he was everywhere and all seeing and 154 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 3: would hear you know if anything was amiss within his empire. 155 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: But Messino's greatest advantage over his predecessors. After watching the 156 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: government round up his rivals, he had gotten wise to 157 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: their playbook. 158 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 3: We had a case where we had infiltrated one of 159 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: their clubs. We were able to install bugs and CCTV 160 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 3: inside the club, and we could see on the CCTV 161 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 3: that when they were talking to each other they would 162 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 3: be whispering in each other's ears. They just assumed that 163 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 3: the place was bugged, and a acted accordingly. 164 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: These bugs had been the hallmark of the Commission case, 165 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: but in many ways, federal law enforcement had been a 166 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: victim of their own success. Decades of black bag ops 167 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: and surveillance had served to strengthen those mobsters that had 168 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: managed to survive. 169 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 3: This combination of factors that no one within the family 170 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: had turned. Our informant coverage was spotty at best. They 171 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 3: were very cautious about electronic surveillance. We just weren't making 172 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 3: any headway. 173 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: So for this next chapter in their spy versus spy 174 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 1: battle with the mob, the FBI needed a new game plan, 175 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: a whole new type of agent. They would have to 176 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: be sophisticated, fearless, and most of all, relentless. Enter the accountants. 177 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 3: In the mid nineties, I went to my ASAC, the 178 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 3: Assistant Special Agent in charge of the Organized crime branch 179 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,199 Speaker 3: in New York, and I said, you know, everything we 180 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: have tried has not worked. Now, I've been toying with 181 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 3: this idea that maybe if we could get some forensic 182 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 3: accountantcy in here, maybe they could make some headway where 183 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 3: we can. My ASAC said, all right, well, let's see 184 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 3: what I can do. He obtained for me two forensic 185 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 3: accountants by the name of Jeff Selette and Kim McCaffrey, 186 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: and they were both brand new agents. They were eager, enthusiastic, smart. 187 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: And their real superpower each was a whiz with numbers. 188 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 4: So my name is Kimberly McCaffrey, and I started in 189 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 4: New York. I spent nine years there working organized crime. 190 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: Like many agents, Kim McCaffrey had grown up familiar with 191 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: some of the faces and names of organized crime. 192 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 4: I grew up in southern New Jersey. Obviously it was 193 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 4: on the local news all the time. I would always 194 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 4: see John Gottie. I would always see how he walked 195 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 4: with a swagger. Even as a kid, I never quite understood. 196 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 4: I'm like, guys, if we know he's the head of 197 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 4: a mob family, why can't we arrest him. I didn't 198 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 4: understand how he could just walk around when we all 199 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 4: knew he was such a bad guy. 200 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: But Kim's path to crime fighting was not a direct one. 201 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 4: I started as a phyzed major and changed my major 202 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: three times till I finally graduated with an accounting major. 203 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 4: I majored in accounting not because I thought I would 204 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 4: have a great fulfilling career as a CPA. I majored 205 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 4: in accounting because it actually came naturally to me. It 206 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 4: was fun going through all the numbers every day. But 207 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 4: I really did want to use my accounting skills. It 208 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 4: sounds so cliche, but to change the world to make 209 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 4: things better. 210 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: So after getting her degree, Kim stopped buy an FBI 211 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: field office and filled out an application. 212 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 4: On my first day, one of my supervisors when I 213 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 4: first got to the New York office, said Hey, if 214 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 4: you had your dream career here, what would it be? 215 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 4: And I was like, you know, I would love to 216 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 4: use my accounting skills to combat organized crime. He said, Oh, 217 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 4: do I have the perfect person for you to meet. 218 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: That person was Jack Steubing, who had the novel idea 219 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: of recruiting CPAs to combat the mob. 220 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 4: At that point, I was slated to go to Squad 221 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 4: C ten in New York to work the Banana organized 222 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 4: crime family. Jeff and I became partners, and the rest 223 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 4: is history. I guess. 224 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: So, how would this work? How would a few accountants 225 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: accomplish what it had taken hundreds of FBI personnel to 226 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: do before them. 227 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 3: The idea of forensic accounting isn't just crunching numbers. That's 228 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 3: what regular accountants do. What the forensic accountants do is 229 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: put those numbers into the organized crime context. What here 230 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: is legitimate money, what is bad money? 231 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: And if the numbers added up, the results would prove 232 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: to be even more reliable than human witnesses. 233 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 3: Bank records don't change. You can kill an informant, you 234 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 3: can bribe people, you can do all manner of things, 235 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 3: But you can't change the records that are in the 236 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 3: banking system. They're always lurking there, and many of them 237 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 3: you don't even know exist, And it's great evidence. 238 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: The fact is that at its heart, the mob is 239 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: all about money, and who better to trace a money 240 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: trail than an accountant. 241 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 4: One thing Jeff always said was what do financial records 242 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 4: tell you? Well, they give you leads like cut off 243 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 4: the numbers, and it gives you a pattern of life, 244 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 4: Like if we look at any one of our statements, 245 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 4: it's a financial surveillance, like, oh, you like to go 246 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 4: to Chipotle, you shop at Target, this is where you vacation. 247 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 4: Who are you getting money from and who are you 248 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 4: sending money to? And why look at someone's tax returns, 249 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 4: especially a mob boss. Why are they getting W two's 250 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 4: from particular corporations they're clearly not working there. Look at 251 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 4: the in and outflows of money, and then understand the 252 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 4: people behind them, and then you look into those people 253 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: and figure out who will actually talk to you, look 254 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 4: for the weak link. 255 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: And the plan was to deploy these methods against the 256 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: boss of bosses, Joe Messino. But even Jack had to 257 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: admit this was a bit out of his wheelhouse. 258 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I had taken some accounting classes in community college, 259 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 3: but I was no forensic account and I didn't know 260 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 3: what I was looking for when I subpoenaed bank records. 261 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: Unless it said in the memo loan shark payment, I 262 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: would have had no idea what it was I was 263 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 3: looking at. 264 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,439 Speaker 1: Luckily, his agents were experts in decoding the secrets in 265 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: the stacks of checks, bank statements, and shady receipts that 266 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 1: had accumulated from years of property seizures. 267 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 3: As I recall, Jeff was the first to arrive, and 268 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: I had a box of these checks that from when 269 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 3: I was a case agent. Well, he opens his box 270 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: up and starts going through the box, and he goes, oh, 271 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: this is evidence of structuring. Oh, this is evidence of 272 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 3: money learning. Oh this is evidence of tax of asion. 273 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 5: Oh. 274 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 3: I don't, Frank, I'm looking at the same stuff he said. 275 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 3: He is, Hakim, I don't see what he sees. I said, 276 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,439 Speaker 3: I'm going to take whatever's in my head about the 277 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 3: Banano family and put it in your head, and you 278 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 3: mix it up with your accounting skills and see what 279 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 3: you can do. 280 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: Armed with pencils, paper and their trusty Excel spreadsheets, Kim 281 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: and Jeff got to work sorting through thousands of documents 282 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: in putting the pieces together. The endgame, follow the money 283 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: and hit them where it hurts. 284 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,959 Speaker 4: Traditionally, an organized crime, you sort of expect to go 285 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 4: to jail at some point in your career, but what 286 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 4: you don't expect is when the government takes your money 287 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 4: away while you're in jail. So that was what we 288 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 4: had planned. Not only do we want to put them 289 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 4: in jail, but we want to take all their money, 290 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 4: or we want to have that hanging over their head 291 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 4: that maybe they will talk to us for the first time. 292 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: They decided to start right at the top with Joe 293 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: Messino and his underboss, sal Vitali, who was also his 294 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: brother in law. 295 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 4: They had the same CPA. So the first thing we did, 296 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 4: as our nerdy accountant selves, was we subpoenaed their accounting records. 297 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: Not wiretaps, not stakeouts of smoke filled social clubs, receipts, 298 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: stacks and stacks of receipts. Safe to say, this was 299 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: a whole new side of the FBI. 300 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 4: I always kind of laugh because you had some old 301 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 4: school agents on the squad who were going out on 302 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 4: surveillance every day or doing old school type of things. 303 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 4: And how excited were Jeff and I when we brought 304 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 4: back nine boxes of financial records and were filling in 305 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:23,359 Speaker 4: Excel spreadsheets. 306 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:25,640 Speaker 1: I'm shaking my head because I would have walked by 307 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:26,719 Speaker 1: your office so fast. 308 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 4: I was like, and that's exactly what most people did, 309 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 4: but to us, like, we're so excited, So I don't 310 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 4: think anyone wanted to be on our team at that point. 311 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 1: And the gangsters themselves weren't their only targets. It was 312 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: also their facilitators, the network of people who were helping 313 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: them move their money and attempt to disguise it as legitimate, 314 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: which led to the uncovering of one of the more 315 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: novel laundering schemes in criminal history. If you actually believe 316 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: their tax returns, Messino, Vitally and their respective wives were 317 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: among the luckiest people in New York. Why they were 318 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: reporting thousands and thousands of dollars of lottery winnings. 319 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, we see that on their tax returns. Joe, sal Josie, Diana, 320 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 4: They're all winning the lottery at various points. Anyone around 321 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 4: Joe Messino is winning the lottery all the time. We 322 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 4: knew that really wasn't real. That was a way for 323 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 4: him to launder his money. It would have been clever 324 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,239 Speaker 4: if maybe they just won it once, but with the 325 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 4: volume of times that they and their friends or family 326 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 4: members won it, it just obviously became a red flag 327 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 4: for us. 328 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: Here's the scheme, as Messino and Vitally imagined it. You 329 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 1: have a lot of cash from a legal activity, and 330 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: you need to clean it to make it look like 331 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: it was earned legitimately. 332 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 4: And in New York there's a lot of bodegas. The 333 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 4: owners of the bodegas, these are the people selling the 334 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 4: lottery tickets. So I have a lot of cash and 335 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: I tell the owner, Hey, if someone wins the lottery, 336 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 4: I'd like to buy their ticket. Because that legitimate person 337 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 4: who wins the lottery, they have to claim it, they 338 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 4: have to pay taxes on it, and that's less money 339 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 4: for them. But if Joe Mosino buys your lottery ticket 340 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 4: from you, you get more money. You don't have to 341 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 4: claim it on your taxes. He doesn't care about paying 342 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 4: the taxes on it because he has so much cash 343 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 4: that he needs to legitimize. And that's sort of the 344 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 4: way the scheme worked. 345 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 1: But their lucky streak would eventually run out, partly due 346 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: to the FBI's work with an unlikely partner, Barry Weinberg. 347 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: He was our first big break. Barry Weinberg was the 348 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 1: owner of several parking lots in Lower Manhattan. His name 349 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: was nowhere on the Banana Org chart, but it kept 350 00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: popping up on checks to and from Messino and wives. 351 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 4: We're just wondering why the boss and the underboss' wives 352 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 4: are receiving income from parking lots in Lower Manhattan. In particular, 353 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 4: we're wondering why a man by the name of Barry 354 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 4: Weinberg is receiving checks from Messino and Vitally. Let's figure 355 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 4: out who he is and what he's all about. 356 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 1: Well, it turns out that Barry was a character almost 357 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: as colorful as the gangsters he was in bed with. 358 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 4: Barry Weinberg was a very successful businessman who was infatuated 359 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 4: with the mob. He was an associate of Richie Cantarella. 360 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: Richie Cantrella was a Banano captain and confidant of sal Vitally. 361 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 4: Barry Weinberg owned parking lot leases all over Manhattan, super wealthy, 362 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 4: and he was pretty much extored out of a portion 363 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 4: of those leases and forced to sell to the wives 364 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 4: of Joe Messino and Salvatally so that they could legitimize 365 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 4: their income. 366 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: So Weinberg was a victim of the bananas, but also 367 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: an accomplice who walked the fine line between the legitimate 368 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: and criminal worlds of New York City. 369 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 4: In vision like an older, wheeling, dealing guy in Lower Manhattan, 370 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 4: chain smoking, super nervous, always had a cigarette in his hand. 371 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 4: He once described W two wage earners as schmucks, and 372 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 4: then Jeff and I just looked at him, like, you 373 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 4: do realize that we are W two wage earners And 374 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: he's like, oh, sorry, sorry, you know, very fast talking. 375 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 1: He was just a character. And in addition, Barry had 376 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: an achilles heel that Kim and Jeff were happy to exploit. 377 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:06,679 Speaker 4: Barry's downfall was that he liked really young women, and 378 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 4: he had a lot of ex wives, and he had 379 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 4: a lot of children, and he didn't like to pay 380 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 4: his taxes. I think he had evaded close to fourteen 381 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 4: million dollars in income taxes with his various businesses. 382 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: Money that largely went right back out the door in 383 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: the form of alimony and child support. 384 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 4: We sort of assessed that Barry Weinberg was not the 385 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 4: type of guy who was willing to go to prison. 386 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 4: So our plan and our hope was to arrest Barry 387 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 4: in a covert way without anyone in the family knowing 388 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 4: about it, and to have Barry make a decision whether 389 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 4: he wanted to go in front of the magistrate judge 390 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 4: that day for his tax evasion crimes, or he wanted 391 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 4: to go along his normal daily activities but wearing a 392 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 4: wire for the FBI. 393 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: And so Kim and Jeff partnered with the n MIPD 394 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: to affect a car stop of Weinberg's Mercedes, careful to 395 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: do it far from the prying eyes of Banano spies. 396 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,679 Speaker 4: We were close behind in a van and then they 397 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 4: asked him to get out of the car and they 398 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 4: put him in the van and he met Jeff and 399 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 4: I for the first time. He was pretty surprised to 400 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,840 Speaker 4: meet us that day. We just introduced ourselves and we 401 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 4: basically gave him his options and it took him about 402 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 4: ten seconds to decide. He said, where were you six 403 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 4: months ago? Give me the wire for Barry Weinberg. Loyalty 404 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 4: took a back seat to self preservation. It was the 405 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 4: first piece in a case against the Last Dawn, one 406 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 4: that wouldn't just lead to charges of tax evasion and 407 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 4: money laundering, but the murder of one of his oldest friends, 408 00:25:54,480 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 4: Sonny Black. Nepolitano. Special agent Jack Stubink's team of forensic 409 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 4: accountants had tracked payments to and from Banano boss Joe 410 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 4: Messino to a New York businessman named Barry Weinberg. Not 411 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 4: one to entertain a lengthy prison term, Weinberg quickly agreed 412 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 4: to cooperate, and he would do it the old fashioned 413 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 4: way by. 414 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: Wearing a wire. 415 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 4: Part of his decision was one he was not willing 416 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,360 Speaker 4: to go to jail, but two because a few months prior, 417 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 4: he was actually assaulted by Richie Kintarella. Although Barry had 418 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 4: made the Banano family a ton of money, they felt 419 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 4: that it wasn't enough, and he got beat. 420 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: Up because he wasn't earning enough or producing enough. 421 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,160 Speaker 4: I mean that's what they thought. But he literally had 422 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 4: made them millions of dollars. They basically said, I hate 423 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 4: these guys, and give me the wire and I'll do 424 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 4: whatever you need me to do. We wired him up 425 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 4: right then and there. We didn't want to change his pattern. 426 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 4: We didn't want anything to change, so he literally went 427 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 4: right back out wearing. 428 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: A recording device, and just like that, the forensic accountants 429 00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 1: were back to using human intel and assuming all the 430 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: risk that goes with it. After all, this was not 431 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: a low stakes game. If Weinberg was suspected of working 432 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: with the Feds, there was a good chance he wouldn't 433 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: be left to run parking lots. He'd be buried under one. 434 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 4: Barry hung out with Richie Cantarella and his crew pretty 435 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 4: much every Monday through Thursday at Deniko's. It was a 436 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,000 Speaker 4: restaurant in Little Italy. Our goal with Barry was to 437 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 4: have him just wear that wire every day and just 438 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 4: see what they talked about. 439 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: The slick haired Richie Cantarella, also known as s Lackhead, 440 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: was Banano captain who had once murdered his own cousin 441 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: at the behest of Joe Messino, and thanks to his 442 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 1: extortion of Barry Weinberg, he, along with Messino and Vitali, 443 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: was also the proud co owner of several parking lots 444 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: in Lower Manhattan. 445 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 4: And what Barry did explain was when the wives of 446 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 4: Joe and Sal purchased interests in the parking lots. They 447 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,920 Speaker 4: were not for what they were worth. He was told 448 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 4: to do that and he really had no choice. So 449 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 4: that's what those checks were for, was for their interests 450 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 4: in the parking lots, which now they earned income from 451 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 4: working there. And that's how Richie earned all of his 452 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 4: money too. 453 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: It's extortion. 454 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 4: It's no show jobs because they're definitely not working there. 455 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 4: They couldn't even tell you where those parking lots were. 456 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 4: Everything that Barry made, he was supposed to give a 457 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 4: portion to Richie, who then gave it to Joe and Salar. 458 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: Lots like windows in concrete were not sexy, but they 459 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: were profitable, and they turned out to be a lynchpin 460 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: in dismantling a much larger criminal enterprise. I can't stress 461 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 1: how integral Barry was. I don't know that anyone would have. 462 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 4: Cared or noticed who he was if we didn't find 463 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 4: those three checks that were written to him. Through the 464 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 4: work that he did, we got a lot on. 465 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: Richie thanks to Weinberg's wire, the FBI collected over one 466 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: hundred tapes of incriminating statements from Cantarella and his crew, 467 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: and in October of two thousand and two, Richie Cantrella 468 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: was arrested and charged in a twenty four count Rico indictment. 469 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: Also arrested another Banano captain named Frank Copa. It became 470 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: a race to see which made man would be the 471 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: first to flip to Cantrella's dismay. Copa beat him to 472 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: the punch. 473 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 4: Although Barry broke it open and Frank Copa crushed it. 474 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 4: We thought we were arresting him on an extortion charge 475 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 4: against Barry Weinberg that he was going to face eighteen 476 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 4: months until Frank told us about the murder of Sunny 477 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 4: Black Napolitano, and I will tell you the truth. We 478 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 4: had no idea he was involved in that murder, or 479 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 4: that fifteen other people were involved in that murder. Joe 480 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 4: Messino was involved in that homicide. There was a setup crew, 481 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 4: there was a murder crew, and there was a cleanup crew, 482 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 4: so multiple people involved, and we were like, wow, okay. 483 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: The murder of Dominic Sonny Black Neapolitano was the violent 484 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: finale of the most infamous chapter of Mafia. Lore Neapolitano 485 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: was the Banano captain that would forever be known as 486 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: the man who allowed an undercover FBI agent named Jopstone 487 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: to work undetected for nearly sake years within the Banano organization. 488 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: FBI agent Joseph B. 489 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 5: Stone was known to the underworld as Donnie Bresco, a 490 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 5: trusted Jules thief who leaders of the Banano family promised 491 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 5: eventual membership in the Cosa Nostra. 492 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: Unsurprisingly, the price for Napolitano's mistake was his life. It 493 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: would be Sunny Black's murder that would ultimately bring the 494 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: entire Banano family to its knees because, according to Frank Copa, 495 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: Joe Messino, the last on himself, was directly involved in 496 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: the hit, and when it came to bringing indictments against 497 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: the mob, a murder charge just hits harder. 498 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 4: Frank Copa when he starts talking about the murders. Now 499 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,719 Speaker 4: people are facing life in prison, that's a different story 500 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 4: than facing eighteen months. 501 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: But still they were a long way from the finish line. 502 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: To make those charges stick, they would need the help 503 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: of another unassuming star of the criminal justice system. 504 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 5: Mitra Hermosi. And I was an Assistant United States Attorney 505 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 5: in the Eastern District of New York, working in the 506 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 5: Organized Crime and Racketeering section of the Criminal Division. 507 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: Much like Jack Steubing's accounting acolytes, Mitra did not take 508 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: a typical path to her career as a federal prosecutor. 509 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 5: Born in Brooklyn, I am the child of immigrants. But 510 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 5: my parents were like, Okay, you have three options in life, doctor, lawyer, 511 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 5: or professor. And I'm like, I don't love science that much, 512 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 5: and professor who wants to get a PhD. So I 513 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 5: ended up as a lawyer. 514 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: But what she never expected was that just a few 515 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: years into her career she would be taking on the mob. 516 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 5: Did I think I would be in the organized crime section. 517 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,040 Speaker 3: No? Never. 518 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,640 Speaker 5: It seemed so in tense and stressful, and it was 519 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 5: a lot of trial work, and you have to think 520 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 5: on your feet, and there's these defendants from very violent 521 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 5: people to very sophisticated business people. 522 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: And talk about baptism by fire. In two thousand and one, 523 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: after the indictments of Frank Coopa and Richie Cantrella, Mietro 524 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: was tasked with prosecuting a case against the most powerful 525 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: mob boss in New York, Joe Messino. 526 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 5: So I'd been in the OC unit for just under 527 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 5: a year. I'd been working on Columbo matter cases and 528 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 5: the Messino case had been the brainchild like the blood, 529 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 5: sweat and tears of a prosecutor who was a couple 530 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 5: of years senior Greg Andres, and he really needed help. 531 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 5: It had gotten so big, a really large racketeering case, 532 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 5: and so I said, all right, let's bring Mitre to 533 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 5: help you. Then the next couple of years we're just 534 00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 5: all Banano all the time. 535 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: And at the center of that case was unraveling the who, 536 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 1: what and why of Sonny Black's murder. 537 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 3: One of the Coosinoustra rules is if you vouch for 538 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 3: a guy and he turns bed, it's on you and 539 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 3: the penalty could be death. 540 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: And as Jack Stubing explains, according to Frank Copa, it 541 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: was Joe Messino himself who demanded that his close friend 542 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: Sonny Black pay the ultimate price. 543 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 3: He was going to kill Lefty guns Gerio, the soldier 544 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,759 Speaker 3: in Sonny Black's crew who formed the closest friendship with 545 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 3: Donnie Brasco. And the reason that Lefty was not killed 546 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: was because the FBI came and scooped him up off 547 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 3: the street and arrested him and pla him in prison. 548 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,880 Speaker 1: Sonny Black would not be so lucky. In Messino's own words, 549 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 1: he had to end I quote, give him a receipt 550 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,840 Speaker 1: for the Donny Brasco situation. 551 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 5: Sonny Black's death was the first murder charge we had 552 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 5: for Messino. Sonny had brought Donnie Brasco in didn't realize 553 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 5: he was an FBI agent. They never forgave him for 554 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 5: doing that. So Sonny Black had to be murdered. 555 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: And so while the nineteen eighty one hit may have 556 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 1: served mob justice, it might also prove to be Messino's downfall. 557 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 5: The beautiful part about a racketeering case is you could 558 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 5: go back thirty forty years. There can only be a 559 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,759 Speaker 5: ten year gap between crimes. But as long as you 560 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 5: have a criminal activity every ten years and the last 561 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 5: one being within two three years of indictment, then you 562 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 5: can go back to their teenage years for the criminal 563 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,399 Speaker 5: conduct you charge. 564 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 1: So, despite Sonny Black's murder happening over thirty years prior, 565 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: Messino could still go down. Here's Cam again on the 566 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: team tasked with making those charges stick. 567 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 4: We had three prosecutors, Greg andres Mita, Hermosi and Robert Hennock. 568 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 4: Greg was the lead, and then they broke it up 569 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 4: by cooperators. Each prosecutor handled certain cooperators and witnesses. 570 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: The three pronged attack was critical in managing the cooperating witnesses, 571 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 1: which now included Frank Coopa, Richie Cantarella, Barry Weinberg, and 572 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: another Banano associate named Augustinos Gazzari. All of the men 573 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: were being offered a chance to testify against their boss. 574 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 5: Not one is allowed to talk to, or see or 575 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 5: hear from anyone else because you don't want them trying 576 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,879 Speaker 5: to coordinate stories. So they cooperate, they're plucked out, they're 577 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 5: put somewhere, depending on who they are, a safe house, 578 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 5: a prison, or the like, and it's a lonely life 579 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 5: for them for a while then, because they're by themselves 580 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,919 Speaker 5: for the most part, and they're not allowed to talk 581 00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 5: to friends or family. 582 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 1: So let's talk a little about the cooperation process. If 583 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: you believe what you see on TV, flipping a witness 584 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,479 Speaker 1: can seem to be only about using threats of jail 585 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: time to coerce damning testimony from a suspect who would 586 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,000 Speaker 1: otherwise be prosecuted for another crime. But in reality, securing 587 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: cooperation and testimony you can use in court is not 588 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: so baldly transactional or so easy it can be a 589 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: long process. You have to build trust and most importantly, 590 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: ensure that the information you are getting is completely true. 591 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,040 Speaker 4: When they decide to cooperate, we sort of go through 592 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 4: their whole history, so they pretty much have to tell 593 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 4: us about every crime they've committed, whether they've been indicted 594 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 4: for it or not. We have to make sure they're 595 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 4: truthful because you know, as a prosecutor, if they then 596 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 4: get on the stand and they didn't tell us something, 597 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 4: or they didn't plead guilty to something that they did, 598 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 4: that is going to basically taint their entire testimony. And 599 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 4: that is the job of a defense attorney to ruin 600 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 4: their credibility. 601 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 1: Even when you're dealing with career criminals, their testimony can 602 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,720 Speaker 1: be as good as anyone's as long as the witness 603 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: is believable. 604 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 5: What people I think don't appreciate is how much time 605 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 5: you end up spending with a witness one to see 606 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,920 Speaker 5: are they being truthful? Can we give them a cooperation agreement? 607 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 5: Because most witnesses think, oh, eighty percent of the truth 608 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,840 Speaker 5: is fine, right, Like maybe I can just delete myself 609 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 5: from that murder, right, like who cares there? 610 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 3: Or other people? 611 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 5: And so there's a little bit of back and forth 612 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 5: with them to make them realize, like, no, if you 613 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 5: want to cooperate, you have to tell us everything right, 614 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 5: every criminal activity that you have committed, and then we 615 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 5: have to corroborate it, because otherwise there's no point. So 616 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 5: it's a ton of work leading up to granting someone 617 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 5: a cooperation agreement saying I trust them they're being truthful 618 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 5: about every act of violence or criminal activity or everything 619 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 5: they've said. 620 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,680 Speaker 1: The most important witness so far in the government's case 621 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: against Messino was Richie Cantrella. He was the one whose 622 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: voice was most often captured on Weinberg's hidden wire. 623 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 5: Richie Canerella ended up being my cooperator, and he was 624 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 5: very high up in the organization, acting underboss at some point. 625 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 5: And so I go to this big meeting with Richie. 626 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,720 Speaker 5: There's all the agents, Kim and Jeff and Greg's there, 627 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 5: and he's talking about a murder. He's like, oh, yep, yep. 628 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 5: So we were in the house, we were going down 629 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 5: the stairs and then he was dead. We all were like, 630 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,120 Speaker 5: he was dead, Huh, how did that happen? Did he 631 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 5: have a heart attack, struck by lightning? 632 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 3: What happened? 633 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 5: Well, no, he was shot, and so you're just like, Okay, Ritchie, 634 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:12,720 Speaker 5: who shot him? Finally, you know, after like forty five minutes, 635 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,279 Speaker 5: he's like, I shot him. It was a learning experience 636 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 5: for Richie as well, to be like, Okay, I have 637 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:26,399 Speaker 5: to be fully honest about how the murders occurred, who 638 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 5: was there, and who did. 639 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: What, Considering how much Cantrella knew it would not be 640 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: a short process, and that can lead to an unlikely 641 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: familiarity between prosecutors and witnesses, which is actually a critical 642 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 1: element of establishing trust. 643 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 5: For that year or two where he's now in a 644 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:51,400 Speaker 5: safe house and we're visiting him at least once or 645 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,160 Speaker 5: twice a week. You walk in and mitrad, did you 646 00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:55,839 Speaker 5: see the view? 647 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 3: You know? 648 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,760 Speaker 5: And he would talk to me about his favorite TV show, 649 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 5: with the kind of clothes he bought his wife and 650 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 5: what did I think, do you think she'll like something? 651 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 5: So it becomes a funny rapport you have with them. 652 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,200 Speaker 1: There was one story in particular that put Richie's gallows 653 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: humor on full display. 654 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 5: I had gotten engaged before joining this case with the 655 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,360 Speaker 5: thought of, Okay, you'll be married within a year, let's say, 656 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 5: But this case took so much time and it was 657 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,759 Speaker 5: supposed to go to trial, but then the trials kept 658 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 5: getting delayed and my wedding kept getting delayed, which I 659 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 5: didn't mind. But at some point I'm with Richie and 660 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,279 Speaker 5: he sits and goes to Meumitra, what's going on with 661 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,799 Speaker 5: your fiance. I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, 662 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 5: you need me to send someone to talk to him. No, Richie, 663 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 5: He's like, all right, you just let me know. Like, Richie, 664 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 5: you're not supposed to be saying stuff like that anymore. 665 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:58,919 Speaker 5: You're a changed man, right, He's like, no, No, I'm 666 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 5: just saying, you know, sometimes men need a little talking to. 667 00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:09,800 Speaker 1: Cantrella's cooperation proved to be the tipping point. Slowly, prosecutors 668 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: gathered more names, which led to more arrests, which led 669 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:15,840 Speaker 1: to more cooperating witnesses. 670 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 5: You start out with one individual, he then has so 671 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 5: much information. Once he cooperates, you're able to go after two, three, four, 672 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,400 Speaker 5: and then it was like a domino. 673 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,240 Speaker 1: Effect among mobsters. The writing was on the wall, flip 674 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: now or face the music. 675 00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 4: At this point, we have multiple people talking to us, 676 00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,800 Speaker 4: we have multiple murders. There's just so many different parts. 677 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: And Jack's plan is starting to work. 678 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,799 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, yeah, it was working from like day two, 679 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 4: but it's just exploded at this point. 680 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:58,200 Speaker 1: For Mitrin her fellow prosecutors, it was an embarrassment of riches, 681 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:00,680 Speaker 1: but not always so glamorous. 682 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 3: All of them. 683 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 5: I had to travel. They're in prison at the time, 684 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 5: right Like, we're not treating them to a fancy hotel. 685 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:13,000 Speaker 5: A couple were in safe houses. We would be staying 686 00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,240 Speaker 5: at like little divy hotels. Visiting these people all throughout 687 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,040 Speaker 5: the country and prisons, spending hours upon hours prepping these 688 00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 5: witnesses in these locations. I'll choke. I've spent more time 689 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 5: in prisons than people who have actually committed some crimes. 690 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: For many of these career criminals, they were not just 691 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: giving up their bosses and in some cases their families. 692 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,720 Speaker 1: They were betraying their identity, their entire way of life. 693 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,320 Speaker 1: One cooperating witness was Richie Cantarella's cousin, Joey Demico. 694 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,920 Speaker 5: When he first came in to cooperate, he was really 695 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 5: struggling with cooperating and at one point he had cut 696 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,400 Speaker 5: his wrists. He walks in to meet us and his 697 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 5: lawyer is like, oh, Joey, not his head's not in 698 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,919 Speaker 5: a good place. But he was also a very good 699 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,320 Speaker 5: witness for us. 700 00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: And sometimes the burden of cooperating was easier for some 701 00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: than others, like in the case of James Tartaglioni, also 702 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: known as Big Louie. 703 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 5: Big Louie, he ends up wearing a wire and gets 704 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 5: really great evidence. As I'm preparing him, we're just talking 705 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,399 Speaker 5: about his testimony, and he says, you know, the good 706 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,880 Speaker 5: thing is Mitro. Whatever happens, I know I'm going to heaven. 707 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 5: And I just looked at him and thought, Okay, murders 708 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 5: be damned right, because he was involved in several murders. 709 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 5: And I'm like, what about the murders. He's like, but 710 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 5: that's work, Metro, it's work that doesn't count. I go 711 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 5: to church, I'm really good to the grandkids. 712 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 3: Work is work, like okay. 713 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,919 Speaker 1: But of all all the mobsters that became cooperators, none 714 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 1: was a bigger get than Messino's second in command, sal Vitali. 715 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 4: Salvitally was Joe Messino's underboss, and he was also his 716 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 4: brother in law. Josie Messino and Salvatally were brother and sister. 717 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:23,319 Speaker 4: When Joe and Josie got together. Sal was young, like 718 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,120 Speaker 4: seven years old. Joe was like a brother to Sal. 719 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,839 Speaker 5: Messino taught him how to swim. They'd known each other 720 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 5: since they were kids, and they were partners right they 721 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 5: were involved in the Three Captain's murders together. As Messino 722 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 5: rose in the organization, he took Vitally with him. Sal 723 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 5: just was Messino's right hand all throughout Messino's career. 724 00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 1: But in the epic saga that is the American Mafia, 725 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,280 Speaker 1: a proximity to power just feeds the desire for more, 726 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:01,560 Speaker 1: and Sal and Joe's relationship was destined to say, especially 727 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,280 Speaker 1: when Messino had to do a short stint in prison 728 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,960 Speaker 1: for a hijacking conviction and left Vitally in charge of 729 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: the family. Here again is Jack stubing. 730 00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 3: With the rise of Vitally as the underboss. It's my 731 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,359 Speaker 3: personal opinion that he probably got a little too big 732 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,320 Speaker 3: for his breeches. I mean it's not he won't be 733 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,960 Speaker 3: the first guy who was a number two guy who 734 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 3: temporarily became the number one guy and said, Jesus pretty good, 735 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:36,680 Speaker 3: I like it. He started pressing the capos for more tribute. 736 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 3: I have heard that he was disrespectful to some of 737 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 3: his underlings. He started to lose support within the family 738 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 3: and he got a little too comfortable in his acting 739 00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 3: boss slot, and Messino began to distrust him as a result. 740 00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: When Messino was back on the street, tensions came to 741 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: go ahead. 742 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 5: And then once Messino's out of prison, I think he 743 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 5: just got so many other people saying bad things about Vitalian, 744 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 5: claiming that Vitali isn't as loyal to Messino as he thinks. 745 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:18,600 Speaker 5: There's no honor among thieves. Then Messino's like, fine, let's 746 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 5: kill Vitally. 747 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,320 Speaker 1: Knowing his life was in danger. Made Vitali the perfect 748 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,759 Speaker 1: candidate to turn against Messino. It would be an act 749 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 1: of self preservation with perhaps a side of revenge. 750 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 2: Next time on Law and Order Criminal Justice System. 751 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 4: Joe Messino practically raised Salvitally, and here he was betraying 752 00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:49,000 Speaker 4: a family oath. 753 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 5: The tension, it was palpable, the glares, the death stairs 754 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 5: that are coming. 755 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,800 Speaker 3: When you really know what this life is. The movies 756 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 3: portrayed of this otherhood of honorable men, hello of crap. 757 00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,759 Speaker 5: I couldn't tell you who the boss of the Genoese 758 00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 5: crime family was today if you asked me to bat order, 759 00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,000 Speaker 5: because I don't even know that the. 760 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 3: Government knows. 761 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 2: Law and order criminal Justice System is a production of 762 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:24,040 Speaker 2: Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts. Our host is Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 763 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 2: This episode was written by Walker Lamond and Anna Sega Nicolazzi. 764 00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 2: Executive produced by Dick Wolf, Elliott Wolf, and Stephen Michael 765 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:39,879 Speaker 2: at Wolf Entertainment on behalf of iHeartRadio. Executive produced by 766 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:44,879 Speaker 2: Alex Williams and Matt Frederick, with supervising producers Trevor Young 767 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 2: and Chandler Mays and producers Jesse Funk, Noams Griffin and 768 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:55,520 Speaker 2: Riema Elkali. This season is executive produced by Anna Seagan Nicolazzi, 769 00:48:56,320 --> 00:49:01,840 Speaker 2: story producer Walker Lamond, Our research are Carolyn Talmage and 770 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,920 Speaker 2: Luke's dance editing in sound design by Rima Alkali, original 771 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 2: music by John O'Hara, original theme by Mike Post, additional 772 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,640 Speaker 2: music by Steve Moore, and additional voice over by me 773 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 2: Steve Zernkelton. Special thanks to Fox five in New York, 774 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,280 Speaker 2: ABC and CBS for providing archival material for the show. 775 00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,319 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and Wolf Entertainment, visit the 776 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or Wherever you listen to your 777 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 2: favorite shows. Thanks for listening.