1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Rube. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: I was really curious to find out what my actual 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: votwo max score was. 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 3: There were a lot of influencers doing their VO two 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 3: max and then even like just sharing information on what 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:16,600 Speaker 3: it means. 7 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 4: I'm curious what this number actually is and how it 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 4: really affects me. 9 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 5: Yeah, we're talking about VO two max specifically. It is 10 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 5: a very important number. 11 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: You've probably heard the term before VO two max. Maybe 12 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: you follow fitness influencers who are constantly sharing their smart 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 1: watch stats after intense exercise. Maybe you've seen the testing 14 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: videos on your social media feed. You know the ones 15 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: where people are like running with a funny face mask 16 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: on and they're going really fast on a treadmill. VO 17 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: two max scores or even this is real showing up 18 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: on dating profiles as a fitness brag. VO two max 19 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: scores are in the spotlight, and it makes it seem 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: like it's the only metric that matters in your fitness 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: and health journey. But what all those tests and numbers 22 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: really mean for your health. It's a question lots of 23 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: people are trying to answer for themselves. From elite athletes 24 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: like Danny Serkin and Grace Hillsen who are figuring out 25 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: how it fits into their training and performance. 26 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: There's a litany of other things that basically determine how 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: your performance as an athlete is, and it's not solely 28 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:20,279 Speaker 2: determined by votwo max. 29 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 3: I am a performance driven runner. But also like the 30 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 3: more you identify your performance in the form of numbers, 31 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: the less that you really find satisfaction out of what 32 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 3: you do. 33 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: To average folks like Brandon Osborne, who is wondering if 34 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: knowing their VO two max score is meaningful for their 35 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: overall health and longevity, I. 36 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 4: Not in my twenties anymore where I could just take 37 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,680 Speaker 4: on the world and be fine. It could happen where 38 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, all my dreams and ambitions go away, 39 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 4: all because I didn't pay attention to these numbers. 40 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: To doctors like Robert Maynard who want people to understand 41 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: what this test is really about. 42 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 5: Remember that you know the person who crosses the finish 43 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 5: line first, it may or may not be the person 44 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 5: with the best VO two max. 45 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Health versus Hype with the American Medical Association. 46 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: I'm your host, trace him. I guess today we're talking 47 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: about VO two max at its simplest VO two max 48 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: is a measure of how much oxygen your body can 49 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: use during exercise. It's often described as your body's horsepower, 50 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: or the maximum output you can sustain during physical activity 51 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: like running, for example. You might also hear it called 52 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: maximal oxygen consumption or aerobic capacity, but for now we'll 53 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: stick to the normal VO two max. We'll get into 54 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: the more technical definition in a minute. Lately, votwo max 55 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,160 Speaker 1: has taken off online as a must know fitness metric. 56 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: But does this number really tell you how fit or 57 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: healthy you are? Is the VO two max score on 58 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: your fitness tracker accurate or should you rush out and 59 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 1: take that lab test with the mask and the treadmill? 60 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: And does your votwo max score even matter as much 61 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: as the hype suggests. Let's find out whether this viral 62 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:17,359 Speaker 1: metric is all health or just heighten. While our goal 63 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,679 Speaker 1: today is to separate health from hype, when it comes 64 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: to VO two max, there is another question kind of 65 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: floating around in the background. Is this metric useful for 66 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: everyone or just elite athletes. We're going to start on 67 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: one end of the athletic spectrum today with Grace and Danny. 68 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: Grace has a background in multiple sports and has completed 69 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: nine marathons. Wow. Danny was a collegiate swimmer at USC 70 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: through twenty twenty five and has recently transitioned into triathlon competition. 71 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: They're both considered elite athletes, a status confirmed by their 72 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: VO two max scores, which we will reveal later. On 73 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum, we have Brandon. He's 74 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: getting back into running for general fitness after taking a 75 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: stretch of time off to focus on being a dad. 76 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: Relatable clinical VO two max tests are available at some 77 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 1: specialized sports medicine facilities, university exercise science departments, high end gyms, 78 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: and dedicated performance labs like the one Grace went to. 79 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 1: They typically cost between one hundred and two hundred dollars. 80 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: I was curious what the experience of going through the 81 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 1: test was like. So here they are describing it. 82 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: View two maxes are available in many places. Find the 83 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 3: nearest one and they'll kind of walk you through what 84 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 3: to do. 85 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: I got to a physical therapy clinic, signed all the 86 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: paperwork and went over to the treadmill area. 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 4: Alright ready, and I set my stuff up and he 88 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 4: pulls out this I like to call it, and he 89 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 4: called it to a bane mask, like it was literally 90 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 4: like over your mouth, your nose, and it had a 91 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: nice suction all the way around. It straps in the 92 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 4: back and then it's sitting on there really tightly and 93 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: not so bad that it's like cutting off a circulation, 94 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 4: but it also needs to be tight enough that when 95 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 4: you're running, it's not going to bounce up and down. 96 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 3: It's actually a little heavy, heavier than I thought, Like 97 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 3: just looking at the videos and pictures of it and 98 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: the way it sits on your face, it's kind of awkward. 99 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 3: You can't really see your feet, so like imagine running 100 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 3: on a treadmill and you're like, you're not looking at 101 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 3: your feet. 102 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 2: They start it at a low speed and zero percent incline, 103 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: and every two minutes the speed will increase as well 104 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 2: as the encline. 105 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 4: As you're like kind of running, you can hear it 106 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 4: like squeaking almost like as you're breathing out and breathing in, 107 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 4: it's taking that in and going out. 108 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 3: And as it's getting faster, your heart rate's obviously like 109 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 3: going up, and they just kind of want to see 110 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: where you can max out. 111 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 4: As we kept upping the numbers, it was just it 112 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 4: was getting harder and harder to. 113 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: Breathe, and then like once you were just like completely gassed, 114 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 3: they'll take it off and then they'll show you where 115 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: the number lives. 116 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: By the end, I was hurting pretty bad. And all 117 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: of that takes about ten to fifteen minutes. So after 118 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: hearing about it, I can imagine this might be a 119 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: test you don't really look forward to taking, So why 120 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: do it at all if you don't have to. 121 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 3: There's something I always do before I go into a 122 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 3: marathon training, and it's kind of like doing some analysis 123 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 3: on ways to improve like my running, like you know, 124 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: just comparing it to like previous training. I think my 125 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: VO two max. I do believe that it probably has 126 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: changed based on the training I've put in from then 127 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 3: to now. And it's not the number. I just want 128 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 3: to make this clear, like it's not the number itself 129 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 3: that I want to chase. But I think what I 130 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: want to understand more is the data is okay, maybe 131 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 3: my heart rate has gotten even lower now, So what 132 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 3: does that mean for my zones? What does that mean 133 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 3: for my threshold? 134 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 1: Danny had a similar reason. 135 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: Like I mentioned before, I'm a little bit of a nerd, 136 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: So everything that I've done is basically anchored on data. 137 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: I have my best friend here on my wrist, my 138 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: garment watch. And the way I think of it is 139 00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: you can look at your pace, you could look at 140 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: how much power you're putting through the bike. 141 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: You could look at your swim times. But that's only 142 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: one factor. 143 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: And I found that it's best to basically have a 144 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 2: pace or power couple with heart rate. So in my experience, 145 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: that was really the best way that I could gauge 146 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 2: if I was making progress. 147 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: So, for example, let's say Danny was biking at a 148 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: certain number of watts at a heart rate of one for. 149 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: If he continued progressing along and holding a higher number 150 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: of watts at that same heart rate one for, that 151 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: means he's becoming more aerobically efficient. So what about the 152 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: rest of us, You know, the ones not training for 153 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: marathons or triathlons who get tired when they're biking, even 154 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: on a flat surface. That's not autobiographical. Why would we 155 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: want to know this VO two max number? 156 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 2: For that? 157 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to hear what Brandon had to say. 158 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: I'm an average dad, I have upside downs. I have 159 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 4: gained weight of lost weight to gain weight. I'm in 160 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 4: my mid thirties, I fell off dad. Life happened. Just 161 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 4: stop prioritizing myself. So last year was the first time 162 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 4: I've ever heard of VO two max. I have an 163 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: Apple watch that I track everything on, and my health 164 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 4: app gave me a notification that says your VEO two 165 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 4: max has increased, and I'm like, I have no idea 166 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 4: what that means, you know, So I'm like looking at it, 167 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 4: and I'm curious what this number actually is and how 168 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: it really affects me and how I can use it 169 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 4: to benefit myself. Is this just for professional athletes? 170 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: Of course? Being an average dad, Brandon was also thinking 171 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: about family. 172 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 4: My family kind of has a history of heart stuff. 173 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 4: VO two max isn't going to tell me if I 174 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 4: have blocked arteries or anything like that, but it is 175 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 4: telling me that my heart is pumping and that my 176 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 4: body is kind of built for this. So safety, health 177 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: and making sure that I'm not pushing myself too far 178 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 4: too quickly. I do want to be around for my kids, 179 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 4: and it would just be interesting to be like, oh, look, 180 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 4: I was running. And that was my downfall of all things, 181 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 4: because I wasn't paying attention to actual numbers. 182 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: To test or not to test, That is the question. 183 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: To understand more about the science behind VO two max, 184 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: I asked doctor Robert Maynard, the director of the Cardiac 185 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: Rehabilitation Unit at Henry Ford Providence Hospitals in Detroit, to 186 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: join us. First up, we'll finally dive into the technical 187 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: definition of votwo max. I promised this earlier. Here we 188 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: are and this is doctor Maynard. 189 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 2: So. 190 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 5: VO two max is a test that we use in 191 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,839 Speaker 5: a clinical situation to guide care. It can also be 192 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 5: used to evaluate athletes in their performance. And it measures 193 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 5: the oxygen consumption and it measures it per unit mass, 194 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 5: so that's going to be kilograms and per unit time 195 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 5: and per minute and so the average ranges of VO 196 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 5: two max are between thirty five and fifty five, and 197 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 5: they're very much related to a person's age, their weight, 198 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 5: their heredity, their trading status. And what we'll see is 199 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 5: a general decline in VO two max from our twenties 200 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 5: moving through the decades. 201 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: VO two max very literally describes your highest that is 202 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: the max volume, that is the v of oxygen intake, 203 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: that is the two so maximum volume of oxygen intake. 204 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: There are a few ways to calculate it, which we'll 205 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: get to in a minute. But you may still be 206 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: wondering where this number actually comes from. So they measure 207 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: the volume of oxygen intake in millileaders while you're running 208 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: on that treadmill. So the milli leaders are then divided 209 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: by your body weight and the time to find your 210 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 1: average oxygen intake in a single minute. So an average 211 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: person usually has a max volume of about thirty five 212 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: to fifty five milliliters of oxygen for every kilogram of 213 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: their weight in a single minute, and that's where they 214 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: get the number. This number, of course, is affected by 215 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: a myriad of health factors like your age, your exercise routine. 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Here's doctor Maynard again. 217 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 5: So there's a premium we get for getting older, and 218 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 5: it's going to in general have a downward pressure on 219 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 5: our VO two max. But there's things that anyone can 220 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 5: do at any stage in their lives to modify this number. 221 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 5: And I'd say, just as a tangent quickly, that it's 222 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 5: a very important number. It's not the only way that 223 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 5: one person should assess their health and wellness, but just 224 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 5: saying that this is a very important number, it's one 225 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 5: of the more correlated numbers with outcomes there's a training volume, 226 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 5: whether it's going to be something in intensity like a 227 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 5: hit type training program, whether there's a more steady state 228 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 5: exposure to training. Each of these things collectively are going 229 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 5: to move your VO two max up as we become 230 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 5: more conditioned, as our muscle mass increases, and as our 231 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 5: ability to extract oxygen increases from the muscle level. 232 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: Interesting, So, in the past few years VO two max 233 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: has become this kind of topic and longevity and wellness circles. 234 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: Why do you think it's trending all of a sudden. 235 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 5: It's a great metric for health variables. It helps distill 236 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 5: those complex issues into a single number. So I don't 237 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 5: think people are wrong to be talking about it as 238 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 5: an important health metric. 239 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you see it talked about, or if you 240 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: see it talked about, what are usually people getting right 241 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: and what are you like? Maybe that's oversimplifying. 242 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think people are right to bring 243 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 5: up this test in response to how it influences longevity 244 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 5: outcome and health and wellness. I think that part is 245 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 5: very real and we shouldn't underestimate its influence. But too 246 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 5: often people do get wrapped up in one particular variable, 247 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 5: and I think that that could be problematic. And you 248 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 5: have kids, you know, and they're coming into you and 249 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 5: they're asking you for advice or they're dealing with something 250 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 5: and they're just distrapped because they got to be on 251 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 5: a test. And you know, as a parent, you're sitting 252 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 5: there going listen. Life is more than just one test. 253 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 5: It's more than just one variable. And that's what I 254 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 5: want to I think it's what I want to tell 255 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 5: people is is that there's there's a whole gamut of 256 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 5: elements that go into how well you feel, how well 257 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 5: you perform your daily tasks, what your wellness and is. 258 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 5: And and so when they think when people get too 259 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 5: influenced by one particular variable, or they train to that 260 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 5: test and they forget all the other components of health 261 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 5: and wellness, I think that's a little bit problematic. 262 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: That aligns with something Grace Hills and told us. Let 263 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: me play this clip for you now and get your 264 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: reaction to it. 265 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 3: I feel that other runners also may have struggled with, 266 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 3: or and I have struggled with, is the number game. 267 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: And I think like because the numbers are so heavy, 268 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 3: especially as a performance driven athlete, you know, you see 269 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 3: your time goals the prs, and I think even the 270 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: VO two max number itself kind of puts you in 271 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 3: a ranking like almost like a status. And I think 272 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 3: originally that kind of got to me, that really did 273 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 3: affect me mentally more than a shit of I would 274 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 3: say that the numbers do not define you. That status 275 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: is not a reflection of who you are as a person. 276 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 3: And this doesn't apply to runners like I mean, it 277 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 3: applies to anyone and everyone, and so I just want 278 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 3: to emphasize that it's not you know, it does not 279 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 3: define you. 280 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: Doctor Maynard. What's your reaction to what Grace is sharing here. 281 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: It kind of feels like she's getting to the heart 282 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: of what you were saying earlier. 283 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 5: I see that, And we could talk about the context 284 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 5: of the particular the two max and people who are 285 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 5: athletes who overly emphasize this particular number. You can also 286 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 5: think about it just in general, that there are so 287 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 5: many things, whether it's academics or athletic performance, where you 288 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 5: get that single number, and your right to be concerned 289 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 5: because people are looking at it, and so it's valuable 290 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 5: because you care about their opinion, but you deep down 291 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 5: know that I'm not one metric I'm not one number 292 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 5: and I shouldn't do this, but boy, it's human tended see, 293 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 5: And so I just think this is a classic example 294 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 5: of human psychology on display. 295 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: Expanding a little on the human psychology piece of this, 296 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: are there instances where a person could say, misinterpret the 297 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: score or you know, apply it to something that maybe 298 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't quite fit. 299 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 5: I think people might falsely ascribe to the test how 300 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 5: well they're going to do in a particular athletic event. 301 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 5: People compare themselves to other people with this one metric 302 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 5: they're and they're bothered that their VO two max might 303 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 5: be a little bit better than someone else. Someone else 304 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 5: is yet they're performing better on a physical feat or 305 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 5: a task or an athletic endeavor. And remember that you 306 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 5: know the person who crosses the finish line first, it 307 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 5: may or may not be the person with the vest 308 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 5: VO two max. So I think that's maybe a thing 309 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 5: that I would caution against, assuming that it's the sole 310 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 5: predictor of athletic performance. 311 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: People love to have this kind of quantitative data about 312 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: their health or their athleticism, and it's an easy number 313 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: of like, oh what's your what's your max score? Oh, 314 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: what's your max score, and then you can you know, 315 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: compare them. But because it's like you said, there's so 316 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: many variables, are they really directly comparable between people? 317 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 5: Well, some of that direct comparison from one person to 318 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 5: another is going to be related to the limitations of 319 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 5: the fidelity of the measurement. Right, So when we're using 320 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 5: say like a wearable technology to generate that VO two 321 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 5: max that you're comparing to someone else, I mean, what's 322 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 5: what's going to be the accuracy of that tool. What's 323 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 5: going to be the tool to tool comparison. You know, 324 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 5: wearable technology tends to underestimate votwo max by about point 325 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 5: one milligram provoxygen per kilogram permitted, so you know, on average, 326 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 5: for an average weight person, you're going to kind of 327 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 5: be about five ish, uh, you know, lower on your 328 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 5: VO two max. 329 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: All of our guests mentioned wearing a watch to keep 330 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: an eye on their VO two max. And here's something 331 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: Danny shared with us that I would love for you 332 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: to respond to, doctor Maynard. 333 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 2: I was really curious to find out what my actual 334 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 2: votwo max score was because the watch would say one number, 335 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: and I knew that Garman's algorithm is based off of 336 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 2: your run pace or your power on the bike relative 337 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,239 Speaker 2: to what heart rate you were at. And that's of 338 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 2: course an estimation. So what's your reaction to that, Doctor Maynard. 339 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 5: Your wearable technology is going to have fidelity issues. It's 340 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 5: not going to be perfect each time. So let's not 341 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 5: get too wrapped up in a particular number. Let's look 342 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 5: at this with more than just one or two pieces 343 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 5: of data. Let's get a sample size over a longer 344 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 5: period of time and then put it in context. You know, 345 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 5: you know, just because that watch is telling you that 346 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 5: I'm five percent less on my VO two max, and 347 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 5: yet I feel wonderful, you know, going out there hitting 348 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 5: my morning runs, I'm hitting all my targets, I'm doing 349 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 5: wealth my times. Lose the perseverance on this number, you know, 350 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 5: use it for what it's worth. Let's not get too 351 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 5: overly anxious about one particular variable. 352 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: This feels like a good moment to zoom out and 353 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: talk about how VO two max is actually measured, because 354 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: not all tests are created equal. As doctor Maynard mentioned, 355 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: they're not even measuring the same thing. Most smart watches 356 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: estimate your votwo max using data like heart rate, pace 357 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: and GPS. Smart rings use a similar approach, although with 358 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: smaller sensors their estimates can be less precise. Then there's 359 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: the lab test, the one with the awkward face mask 360 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: that Grace, Danny and Brandon experienced. Instead of estimating, it 361 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: directly measures gas exchange, how much oxygen you are literally 362 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: taking in and how much carbon dioxide you are breathing out, 363 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: along with your heart rate to confirm that you are 364 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: truly at max effort. So while wearables can give you 365 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: an estimate, the treadmill and mask test is measuring your 366 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: body's direct performance, which raises the real question when is 367 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: a smart watch good enough and when does a full 368 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: test actually matter. Here's how doctor Maynard thinks about it. 369 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 5: The most common circumstance where you're going to use a 370 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 5: VOTWO max a formal VOTWO max, and this involves the 371 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 5: complex use of a metabolic cart and all the equipment 372 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 5: and having a person who's highly trained administered the exam. 373 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 5: This is best in medical settings for medical determination of 374 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 5: treatment plants, and so a classic one would be for 375 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 5: people who have a heart failure and they're contemplating the 376 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 5: need for heart transplant. Another strong indication for using this 377 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 5: in a formal way would be people who are having 378 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 5: unexplained shortness of breath. If someone is a weakened warrior 379 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 5: type athlete who's just trying to get like, hey, where 380 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 5: am I compared to other people? Undergoing a full formal 381 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 5: caryopulmonary fitness examination is expensive, not necessarily easy to do. 382 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 5: It would probably be overkill in that particular situation because 383 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 5: you're going to be wanting to be able to track 384 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 5: where your performance is going, and it's just not super 385 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 5: easy to repeat these on a regular basis in a 386 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 5: cost effective manner. So this person might agree upon using 387 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 5: a wearable technology to kind of get maybe directionally which 388 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 5: way they're going with their fitness and use that tool 389 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 5: on a more routine basis and be very understanding that 390 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 5: the tool is not perfect and that they shouldn't get 391 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 5: so hung up on a particular number, but be more 392 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 5: interested in how they're doing directionally with their training plan 393 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 5: and how they're moving at their other health variables, and 394 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,880 Speaker 5: maybe how this could guide them to a healthier position. 395 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: Does it reflect other healthy behaviors as well? Like if 396 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: I change my diet, is my VO two max going 397 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: to change? Also? 398 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 5: It could? You know, is the short answer. Say your 399 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,679 Speaker 5: diet modification generates a weight loss, you will have a 400 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 5: higher oxygen utilization per weight. Right, So obesity is in 401 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 5: the equations is going to drive down your votwo max. 402 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 5: So in a way, whether your exercise pattern that you're 403 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 5: doing it generating effective weight loss, it's building lean muscle mass, 404 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 5: which is going to increase your votwo max. You might 405 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 5: get adaptation of the muscle because you're exercising more, right, 406 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 5: that's going to change your musculature, tissue level, oxygenation extraction. 407 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 5: So yeah, it's all these variables are tied into an 408 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 5: overall number. Number will likely get better as you work 409 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 5: upon each of these individual metrics in your health. 410 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: Your VO two max score is a strong predictor for 411 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: heart failure, coronary artery disease, and other cardiovascular disease, and 412 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: it's also a good predictor of your longevity potential. VO 413 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: two max testing has been used in clinical settings for 414 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 1: over half a century, but doctor Maynard says all that 415 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: positive evidence doesn't mean that everyone needs to get tested regularly. 416 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: In fact, there are some people who shouldn't test, and 417 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: everyone should first consult their physician before signing up for 418 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: a VO two max test. Just to be on the 419 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: safe side, here's doctor Maynard again. 420 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 5: I think for people who have decent cardiopulmonary backgrounds, there's 421 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 5: no ongoing medical problems, there's not a strong risk associated 422 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 5: with doing a test. Its exercise. For people who have 423 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 5: not had an assessment of their health, and they might 424 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 5: be a little bit older with some underrecognized cardiac conditions 425 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 5: and you decide that you want to start doing a 426 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 5: VO two max. This is a maximum effort test. And 427 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 5: just like if we were giving an exercise prescription to 428 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 5: someone who hasn't had any training recently, we wouldn't say, hey, 429 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 5: let's go full tilt, you know, we would say, let's 430 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 5: take a second, let's uh maybe if if you're old 431 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 5: enough or have enough risk factors, you might even say, 432 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,239 Speaker 5: let's look at some cardiac testing prior to doing a 433 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 5: more vigorous exercise plan before incorporating these plans. So in 434 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 5: that way, it could be unsafe for people who are 435 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 5: not acclimated to exercise, who might have underrecognized cardiac conditions. Otherwise, 436 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 5: for the folks who are younger without any established problems 437 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,239 Speaker 5: or risk factors for cardiac problems, you know, it's it's 438 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 5: a safe test. 439 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get what you mean. You're probably not going 440 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: to be like, all right, grandma, let's go run some 441 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: hills today, you know. 442 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 5: Like yeah, I mean it's you know, max effort, whether 443 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 5: it's you know, like a single rep max or whether 444 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 5: you're out there just trying to really hit that that 445 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 5: really high level peak cardiac exercise No. A VO two 446 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 5: MAX is when you're at that maximum level and you're 447 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 5: sustaining it, and it's actually hard to get there. And 448 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 5: that's where the real administered by people who've been doing 449 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 5: this for a while. They are good at counseling people 450 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 5: up to get that high level of activity. It's not 451 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 5: easy to do, and it's where experience centers, you know, 452 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 5: add value. 453 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, So how does the average patient react with facing 454 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: this kind of test, right, because it can be intimidating 455 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: to show up and have a mask put on you 456 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: and say like, okay, we're going to run on a 457 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: treadmill and it's you're going to have to push as 458 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: hard as you can, and you know, how does the 459 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: average person react to that? 460 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,639 Speaker 5: I mean it really depends on the person, right, I 461 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 5: Mean some people are going to look at this like, 462 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 5: let's go and they're excited to see where they are. 463 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 5: They're probably someone who's been experienced with athletics for a 464 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 5: lot of time and they're interested in doing this, or 465 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 5: it's not their first rodeo. For someone who hasn't had 466 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 5: any real training experience or maybe athletic performance experience or not, 467 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 5: they're not used to high intensity athletics. I mean, this 468 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 5: is daunting. This is this is a this is a 469 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 5: big deal, and there's lots of anxiety surroundings its administrations. 470 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 5: It really depends a lot on who's coming to the 471 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 5: table or the treadmill. I should say. 472 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: So, if somebody wants to improve their VO two max number, 473 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: what kind of training would people recommend? 474 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 4: Right? 475 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 5: Right, So now we're again we're talking about people who 476 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 5: are not really looking at this test for medical reasons 477 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 5: of clinical treatment plans. We're looking at how using this 478 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 5: test to maybe tweak their performance. It's going to be 479 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 5: training volume, training intensity, those are the primary drivers of 480 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 5: how we adapt, right, So, training load. There's studies that 481 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,239 Speaker 5: look at people who've got training exposure at say two 482 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 5: to four times a week versus fourth six time a week, 483 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 5: and we know that training exposure is going to help 484 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 5: people adapt, so getting someone up to an appropriate training 485 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 5: volume would be a recommendation. And then training intensity high 486 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 5: intensity interval training is particularly helpful and a muscle adapting 487 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 5: to exercise. And then because the muscle's adapting to exercise 488 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 5: and we're improving our ability to get good cardiac output, 489 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 5: then you know your numbers are going to go up. 490 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: Would you say it's like a meaningful indicator for overall 491 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: health or is it more targeted. 492 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 5: A wonderful overall indicator of health. It's one of the 493 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 5: more validated techniques to assess health and wellness. We in 494 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 5: medicine use various techniques to validate procedures. We use statistics 495 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 5: to decide which variables influence the outcomes the most, are 496 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 5: most correlated with it, and when we look at things 497 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 5: that are important, even like important things like blood pressure 498 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 5: and cholesterol status and all these other very commonly used 499 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 5: health metrics. VO two max comes out on top is 500 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 5: one of the best predictors of longevity and outcome. If 501 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 5: we were to compare the people with the highest VO 502 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 5: two max compared to the lowest votwo max quartiles, there 503 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 5: can be a life difference of five years. So it's 504 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 5: a very important marker. Well, why is it so important? 505 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 5: What is it telling us that helps us with longevity 506 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 5: at things? I think it's because the test incorporates so 507 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 5: many different components of our body's health systems. It incorporates 508 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 5: the cardiac function. So like one of the important variables 509 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 5: inside how people do is cardiac output, you know, the 510 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 5: the ability of the heart to squeeze blood through our bodies. 511 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 5: And so since that's an important part of our health 512 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 5: and wellness, this test encapsulates that it's going to be 513 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 5: an important marker. Look at the other elements, like the 514 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 5: pulmonary status, whether our lungs can exchange gases appropriately. Some 515 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 5: people have health conditions in their lungs, say chronic exposure 516 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 5: to toxins, whether there's a physema, COPD, so their respiratory 517 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 5: fitness is needed to have better VO two maxes, they 518 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 5: need to exchange the gases from the environment. So if 519 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 5: you have a health limiting condition in the pulmonary situation, 520 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 5: that's going to be reflected on your VO two max. 521 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 5: And just as your cardiac status would be potentially impaired 522 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 5: by say heart disease or valvular heart disease or hypertensive 523 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 5: heart disease. So now we got the cardiac system, we 524 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 5: have a pulmonary system, and then we have a reflection 525 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 5: of the Then finally, for the VO two max, I 526 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 5: would say that it's how well the muscles use oxygen. 527 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 5: So here, if you have more musculature and that musculature 528 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 5: is conditioned to be more efficient at gas exchange, that's 529 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 5: reflected by a better VIEW two max. So I think 530 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 5: it's really it's an all around measurement that incorporates many 531 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 5: important health variables, and I think because those things stove 532 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 5: pipe up and give you that final number, it ends 533 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 5: up being a very predictive test of predictive number. 534 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, So at its core, VO two max is 535 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: a comprehensive measure that reflects multiple key aspects of your 536 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: overall health and fitness, which sounds like a pretty important number. 537 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: So maybe now you're wondering, how are guests scored on 538 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 1: their VO two max tests? I know, drum roll for context, 539 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 1: Males who score over fifty five fall in excellent average 540 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: is thirty five to forty four. For healthy women, and 541 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: excellent score is forty nine or above, and average is 542 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: thirty one to thirty seven. Keep in mind VO two 543 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: max naturally declines with age, so a good score at 544 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: age sixty looks different than twenty five, and endurance athletes, 545 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: like runners or cyclists, they can often exceed these ranges. 546 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Elite athletes can reach seventy or ninety plus. Norwegian triathletes 547 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: and Olympic gold medalist Christian Blumenfeldt recorded the highest known 548 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: VO two max in early twenty twenty six, with a 549 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: lab tested score that broke the one hundred mark for 550 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: the first time at one hundred and one point two. 551 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 1: He's considered the greatest triathlete in the modern age. Danny 552 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: competed against him in a recent Ironman competition. How'd you do, Danny? 553 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: Christian blumenfelt was in the race. He won. It was 554 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,320 Speaker 1: honestly a lot of fun. Okay, So here it goes, 555 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 1: how did our guests score in their VO two max tests? Brandon? 556 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: Our normal average? 557 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 4: Dad, My actual numbers were forty five, So I was like, wow, 558 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 4: that's crazy. I mean, and being like a VO two 559 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 4: max of forty five at my age was like there 560 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 4: was like good and then excellent. I was like right 561 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 4: on that line of the yant X access of being 562 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 4: right on the excellent lines I'm like, well, let's get better. 563 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: And Grace our multi marathon runner. 564 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 3: The VO two max that I had, so it's almost 565 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: a year ago, was sixty two, and apparently that number 566 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 3: falls within like the superior elite range. So it was 567 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 3: a good score, a really good score. 568 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: And Danny, our triathlete the fig reveal, so I scored 569 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 2: eighty point two on my votwo max. Was a lot 570 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 2: higher than I expected. In that moment, I kind of 571 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 2: felt validated for all of the hard work that I 572 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 2: had put in in the preceding months, especially in trying 573 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 2: to get myself back into shape. So all of the 574 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: training volume, all of the healthy decisions that I made 575 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 2: when it came to diet, when it came to sleep, 576 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 2: I think all of that kind of set in and 577 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 2: it was a very very gratifying feeling. 578 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: I'd say, but I think I want to give doctor 579 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: Maynard the last word. 580 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 5: Don't put that pressure on yourself. Understand that your athletic 581 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 5: performance is more than a single number. We live in 582 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 5: a time period now where there's a lot of information online. 583 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 5: There's a lot of influencers that talk a great deal 584 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 5: about various things that predict health and wellness and VO 585 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 5: two max is one of them. Very right to consider 586 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 5: using this as an important test because it is, it's validated, 587 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 5: it's been around, there's tons of statistics and data that 588 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 5: support its use. But like many other metrics, it has 589 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 5: to be contextualized. So I'm encouraged that people are looking 590 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 5: at it. I think it's great that they're beginning to 591 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 5: understand this long held technology and incorporate it into their 592 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 5: predictions in encouraging people maybe to get a little bit 593 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 5: healthier by looking at this measurement. 594 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: VOTWO max is one of the most reliable ways to 595 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: measure your overall fitness, whether you're an elite athlete or 596 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: someone just trying to live their best life. Higher scores 597 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: are linked to stronger cardiovascular health, lower disease risk, and 598 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: longer lifespan. Knowing your votwo max can also help you 599 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 1: train smarter by tailoring workouts to your actual capacity. That said, 600 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: you don't need to rush out and book a clinical test. 601 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 1: Your smart watch can help you keep track of your 602 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: VOTWO max just fine, but remember it's still a good 603 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: idea to check in with your physician if you're curious 604 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: about your VOTWO max score. After hearing about it. Did 605 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: we entice you to go run out and get a 606 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: VO two max score done or send you running away 607 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: at the thought of it. Let us know in the comments. 608 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: We're curious to hear what you have to share. And 609 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: thanks again to doctor Maynard for breaking down the science 610 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: and the technology behind VO two max scores, and also 611 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,959 Speaker 1: thanks to Grace, Danny and Brandon for sharing their stories 612 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: and experiences with us as well. We did it again, y'all. 613 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: We got to the bottom of another popular health trend, 614 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: but there is still more to come. In the next episode, 615 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: we're going to answer your questions about the many detox 616 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: trends circulating online. If you haven't already, please hit the 617 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: subscriber follow button and join us next time on Health 618 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: versus Hype with the American Medical Association. For more information 619 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: on all the topics we're covering, visit Amahealth versus Hype 620 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: dot Org. That's am Health vs. Hype dot Org. Health 621 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: versus Hype is a production of Ruby Studio from iHeartMedia 622 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: and the American Medical Association. I'm trace to Mingez. Our 623 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: producers are Matt Stillo and Pamela Lawrence. Michael Poe Wilson 624 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: is our writer. The show is engineered and features original 625 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: music by Matthew Ernest Filler. 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