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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel and today I'm

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Speaker 1: talking with Jade Warshaw on escaping the debt trap and

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Speaker 1: rewriting your story. Okay, So, in Greek mythology, Atlas holds

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Speaker 1: the world on his shoulders as a punishment from Zeus.

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Speaker 1: Every time I see an image of Atlas, it makes

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Speaker 1: me think about the modern reality of debt to people

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Speaker 1: struggling under its weight. It can feel like a perpetual burden,

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Speaker 1: and it's not like a you know, you're going rucking

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Speaker 1: a little jaunt where you can take off that pack

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Speaker 1: if you want. And Jade Warshaw she knows that burden

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Speaker 1: of debt well. She paid off almost half a million

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Speaker 1: dollars in consumer debt over the better half of a decade,

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Speaker 1: and now she uses her harder knowledge to teach others

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Speaker 1: how to do the same. She's a Ramsey personality. She

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Speaker 1: is the author of the new book What No One

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Speaker 1: Tells You About Money. Jade, I'm really excited to talk

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Speaker 1: to you. Thank you for joining me today on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Joel. I loved that visual

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Speaker 2: you started out with. By the way, so good Atlas.

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Speaker 1: It's true. I mean, think of like the way of

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Speaker 1: the world on your shoulders. It can feel like that,

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Speaker 1: especially when you had as much debt as you had,

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Speaker 1: which is going to be my second question to you,

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Speaker 1: But the first one I have to ask you is

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Speaker 1: what do you like to splurge on? Kraft beer is

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Speaker 1: my thing, but what is your craft beer equivalent? What

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Speaker 1: are you splurging on while you're still doing smart stuff

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Speaker 1: with your money in the meantime?

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Speaker 2: Plants, Plants, anything green that can live inside of my

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Speaker 2: house is the thing.

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Speaker 1: What was the last plant you got? And I know

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Speaker 1: Fiddley figs. We have a Fiddley fig that we've been

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Speaker 1: able to keep alive. Those are notoriously difficult to keep alive, right.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh, Yeah they do. And I have a big

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Speaker 2: one that I actually just moved so I could put

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Speaker 2: my Christmas tree up. I just moved it into my kitchen.

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Speaker 2: Fiddley fig The last thing I bought was probably I

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Speaker 2: bought a Kiwi plant. It's like a dressina, It's it's

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Speaker 2: really really pretty. It's really tropical. I like tropical plants.

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Speaker 2: I bought yet another monsterra I have lots of those.

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Speaker 1: They're so cool. I love this. I get mine from

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Speaker 1: Costco when they sell them.

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Speaker 2: Oh, really, be careful.

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Speaker 1: I have one of the front horses is huge, which okay.

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Speaker 1: Next question to you, what do you do with those

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Speaker 1: plants if you have them outside and it's wintertime, like

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Speaker 1: you got to bring them inside and then your house

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Speaker 1: gets a little crowded.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I have mastered the indoor house plant.

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Speaker 2: I can keep them alive. Most of my plants I've

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Speaker 2: had for like four years or more. It's outdoor plants

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Speaker 2: that I struggle with, So I only buy indoor house plants. Drool.

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Speaker 2: I don't even mess with the outdoor stuff. I have

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Speaker 2: a big pair of elephant years. You know what I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Oh, and.

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Speaker 2: I have those inside and they stay inside all year

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Speaker 2: because we have winter here anyway, so we can't take

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Speaker 2: them outside.

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Speaker 1: To me, the elephantors are so cool, especially like outside,

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Speaker 1: they just get so big. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: My house is a jungle.

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Speaker 1: I love it, though, I love it. I'm all for

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Speaker 1: I'm all for the inside plants, the real inside plants.

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Speaker 1: The fake ones, no way, but the real ones. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they do. They just like brighten the space for su

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Speaker 1: they do.

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Speaker 2: I read something that said you're supposed to do a

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Speaker 2: mix of faue and real like that's how you get

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Speaker 2: the optimal. But I just can't do the faux plant thing.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you, Yeah, no, not worth it. I see

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Speaker 1: every time I see them, I'm like, that's a decent

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Speaker 1: like stand in for a real plant. But sorry, I

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Speaker 1: can tell, and if I can tell, it's going to

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Speaker 1: bother me always.

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Speaker 2: So the question is, do you name your plants? That's

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Speaker 2: when you know you're getting into some some deep territories.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you do. Yes, I've not gone to

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Speaker 1: that step yet, but maybe some day. Right out tell

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Speaker 1: me about let us talk about debt. You paid off

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Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty thousand dollars in non mortgage debt.

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Speaker 1: How did you know that you had that much debt

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Speaker 1: and how did you get into that level of debt

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Speaker 1: in the first place. Yeah, it sounds like a lot.

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Speaker 2: Great question. When you have that much debt, you know it.

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Speaker 2: You don't really have to start tabulating it. You start

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Speaker 2: to feel it before you ever see the math on paper.

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Speaker 2: You feel the cracks in your finances when you go

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Speaker 2: to the grocery store and you're just buying odds and ends,

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Speaker 2: like toilet paper and soap and your card declines. Right,

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Speaker 2: you go, oh, wait a minute, something's wrong. I can't

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Speaker 2: even get the things that I need without a problem.

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Speaker 2: You feel it when something small happens and you know

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Speaker 2: your spouse makes a purchase without telling you about it,

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Speaker 2: and somehow something very small like going through the drive

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Speaker 2: through turns into an argument. Right, those are the things

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Speaker 2: that you start to feel. Or you want to take

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Speaker 2: a trip and you go to buy the flights and

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Speaker 2: you're trying to find the cheapest flights that you can

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Speaker 2: find on Spirit Airline, and you're looking for the places

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Speaker 2: that you can eat at that are less than eight

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Speaker 2: dollars a person because you can't afford to go on

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Speaker 2: the vacation. Right. So those were the things that were

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Speaker 2: starting to happen with Samini. More so we were taking

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Speaker 2: we were moving from Tennessee at the time down to

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Speaker 2: South Florida. You know, when you move, you're just packing

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Speaker 2: everything up. It's so expensive to move, whether it's tape boxes,

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Speaker 2: and that was a strain. Just to be able to

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Speaker 2: move was hard. And so those were the cracks that

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Speaker 2: I started seeing in our finances, the overdrafts, the arguments,

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Speaker 2: difficulty doing the simple things, and that's kind of what

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Speaker 2: led us to say, what's going on here? And to

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Speaker 2: be honest with you, it wasn't this big meeting that

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Speaker 2: we said we're going to lay out all of our debts.

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Speaker 2: It was a simple question, Hey, how much student loans

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Speaker 2: do you have? And that one question kind of led

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Speaker 2: to the unraveling of all of it because that was

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Speaker 2: a simple question but hard to answer. And that's when

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Speaker 2: we knew, hey, there's more going on here. When I

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Speaker 2: said to my husband Sam, how much student loans do

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Speaker 2: you have? And it was kind of like, I think

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Speaker 2: it's like maybe one eighty or maybe it's light right, that.

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Speaker 1: Was kind of a park specificity.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that was the unraveling of it all, and then

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Speaker 2: from there it all kind of came out.

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Speaker 1: So did you realize we have to get species, we

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Speaker 1: have to write, we have to know exactly what we

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Speaker 1: owe and you added it all up and that's how

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Speaker 1: you came up with the headline number. And did you

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Speaker 1: suspect that it was anywhere near that much?

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Speaker 2: Well, what happened was, you know, when you graduate, you

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Speaker 2: have kind of like a six month grace period where

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Speaker 2: nothing's due. And so, like I said, we were already

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Speaker 2: feeling the strain, already feeling those cracks, and I knew

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Speaker 2: that that grace period was about to be over, and

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Speaker 2: so on my head, I'm thinking, gosh, it's already very,

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Speaker 2: very difficult to handle money. What are these payments going

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Speaker 2: to be when his student loans hit and when my

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Speaker 2: student loans hit. And so that's what led to the

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Speaker 2: question of, hey, we're already on the edge when these

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Speaker 2: bills come due. We're going to be over the edge

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Speaker 2: if we don't come up with a plan. So that's

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Speaker 2: how the conversation started. And yeah, like I said, it

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Speaker 2: was a lot of I think maybe possibly, and then

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Speaker 2: that led to well can you log in and see

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Speaker 2: and then that led to oh, wait, my mom is

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Speaker 2: on these student loans co signers, like all of this unraveling,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, once we got the number, we did realize,

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Speaker 2: first off, we can't afford our life with student loan payments.

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Speaker 2: And that's how we started saying, Okay, we need a plan.

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Speaker 2: And I told my husband I remembered a guy that

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Speaker 2: I heard on the radio, and it was Dave Ramsey.

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Speaker 2: So years back, i'd been in the car with my

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Speaker 2: brother and Dave Ramsey came on the radio, and it

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Speaker 2: was the first time I ever heard it, and he's talking,

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Speaker 2: of course, to people about how to get out of debt,

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Speaker 2: the Baby Steps, if you're familiar with those, and I

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Speaker 2: remembered it and I said to my husband, I think

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Speaker 2: there's a guy that can help us. He's got this

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Speaker 2: plan for money. Maybe we ought to check it out.

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Speaker 2: And so that's how we started the seven Baby Steps

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Speaker 2: to try to get out of debt.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I appreciated about your story is

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Speaker 1: how resourceful you were, and then it sounds like you're

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Speaker 1: still that kind of person. But talk to me about

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Speaker 1: how you thought about increasing income you went. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like you tried every side hustle in the book, or

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Speaker 1: at least most of them, and how that impacted the

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Speaker 1: rest of your life. Kind of going that hard in

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Speaker 1: an attempt to get rid of this debt in short order,

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Speaker 1: because that's a lot of money, and a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would just like crawl up in a hole and

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Speaker 1: just pretend it doesn't exist. Sure their ears la la

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Speaker 1: la la la. But no, you were like, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do everything in my power to get rid of

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Speaker 1: this as quickly as possible.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, we had big dreams. So you know,

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Speaker 2: most of us come out of college and we're just

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Speaker 2: like ready to take a bite out of the world.

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Speaker 2: And my husband and I were the same way. We

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Speaker 2: wanted to be musicians. He wanted to be, you know,

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Speaker 2: an instrumentalist. I wanted to be a vocalist. And we

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Speaker 2: already knew that things were stacked against us choosing that profession.

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Speaker 2: Most people think of a starving artist. It's like, if

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Speaker 2: you're not Beyonce or Britney Spears, who even are you? Right,

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Speaker 2: So we already knew that we had our work cut

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Speaker 2: out as far as making a living, and we did

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Speaker 2: not want to fall into that stereo type of you're

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Speaker 2: just you know, starving artists living you know, feast to famine.

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Speaker 2: And so we knew, okay, the same way that everybody else.

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Speaker 2: If you want to be a doctor, you have to

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Speaker 2: work hard for all of these years in order to

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Speaker 2: just get a residency, right, same thing with music. So

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Speaker 2: we knew that we wanted to beat that drum and

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Speaker 2: really go hard on that. But the truth was, this

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Speaker 2: debt was here, and if we wanted to realize this dream,

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Speaker 2: we had to clean up that debt. And so I

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Speaker 2: think the same resourcefulness that makes you go out and

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Speaker 2: network and get gigs and all of that is the

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Speaker 2: same personality trait that we brought into paying off debt,

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Speaker 2: which is you do whatever you have to do. You

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Speaker 2: work hard, you knock on doors, you turn door handles,

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Speaker 2: and you grind it out like that's what you have

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Speaker 2: to do. And I tell people that all the time.

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Speaker 2: On the Ramsey Show, they're looking for Joel kind of

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Speaker 2: like an easy button, and I'm like, there's no easy button.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have to do things that make you uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have to do things that make people

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Speaker 2: ask questions. You're going to have to do things that

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Speaker 2: make you feel like you almost have to get to

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Speaker 2: the point of questioning what you're doing. Am I going

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Speaker 2: too hard? Am I taking too much time from my spouse?

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Speaker 2: Am I taking too much time for my family? That

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Speaker 2: is the line that you need to get up to,

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Speaker 2: because that's when you know that you're going hard in

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Speaker 2: the paint.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious about that. So I want to hear

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Speaker 1: one how uncomfortable did you get? Like what did you do?

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Speaker 1: I know you were a cruise ship singer, Like, how

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable did you allow yourself to get what did that

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Speaker 1: look like? And then is it possible for someon want

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Speaker 1: to take an approach that's two knows to the grindstone

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Speaker 1: that they blow up other parts of their live life

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Speaker 1: in an attempt to get rid of the debt too quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. So let's frame it up first. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: here I am twenty three years old, four hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty thousand dollars of debt at the time, making thirty thousand.

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Speaker 2: So I just want to set up that this is

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Speaker 2: an extreme situation. Most people's situation is probably not this extreme.

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Speaker 1: That's a tough math problem right there.

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Speaker 2: That's a tough math problem. So we did have to

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Speaker 2: go to extremes for us. Yeah, we sold the furniture

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Speaker 2: in our house. I remember moving into a townhouse that

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Speaker 2: my mother in law owned that she was renting to

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Speaker 2: us at cost. No furniture in there. And ah, we

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Speaker 2: had some buddies that were like, hey, we used to

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Speaker 2: go to our friend's house, you know, on a Friday

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Speaker 2: night order a pizza. And one day our friends were like, hey,

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Speaker 2: why don't we have dinner at your house? And we said, well,

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Speaker 2: that'd be fine, but we don't have furniture, and they

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Speaker 2: didn't believe us, and they came over and they looked

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Speaker 2: around and they were like, oh crap, you really don't

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Speaker 2: have furniture. And we were like, yeah, we just sit

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Speaker 2: on the steps and eat like that's how we okay.

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Speaker 1: So when you're saying no furniture, like no chairs, no

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Speaker 1: dining room table, no actual bed, no cat like any that, we.

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Speaker 2: Had an air mattress. So we sold when we sold

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Speaker 2: our townhouse to try to because it was two thousand

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Speaker 2: and eight, the Great Recession, and we, like I said,

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Speaker 2: we were moving from Tennessee to South Florida. We were

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Speaker 2: able to sell our house at costs, so we didn't

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Speaker 2: make anything or earn anything. It was one hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars, so that was some debt cleared. And

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Speaker 2: the deal was that the person who bought our house

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Speaker 2: and cash bought the furniture with it, which was great

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Speaker 2: because half of it was on payment, so it cleared

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Speaker 2: those payments. And so when we got down to South Florida,

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Speaker 2: we bought an air mattress. We had eight hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: in our pocket. We bought an air mattress. We bought

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Speaker 2: a little two seater couch from Ikia. We bought one

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Speaker 2: or two like breakfast stools to sit on, and that

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Speaker 2: was it. And so that's what we had in our apartment,

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Speaker 2: and then that's what we had in our townhouse that

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Speaker 2: we lived later on rented with roommates. And that's how

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Speaker 2: it was.

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Speaker 1: In your opinion, there's nothing too extreme you can do

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Speaker 1: in order to eradicate that quickly, or is it?

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Speaker 2: I think if you have a spouse and you're on

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Speaker 2: the same page, and you have a very clear timeline

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Speaker 2: of Hey, this is what we're going to do, then

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Speaker 2: that's up to you. Guys. Now, I am a big

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Speaker 2: proponent of rewards and milestones, and I talk about that

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Speaker 2: in my book. If you have if you have a

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Speaker 2: journey in front of you, there has to be rewards,

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Speaker 2: there have to be milestones. I liken it to a marathon.

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Speaker 2: Right when I was training for a marathon last year,

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Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be a long journey.

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Speaker 2: I knew that it was going to be months and

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Speaker 2: months of training, very difficult, lots of pain, lots of sacrifice.

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Speaker 2: But I also had the rewards set up, so I knew, hey,

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Speaker 2: on the days that I do the long run. Afterwards,

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Speaker 2: I'm having nachos and a margarita. You know you have

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Speaker 2: to have those in there because that's what gives you

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Speaker 2: the dopamine hit to go, oh, that was a good job.

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Speaker 2: I want to keep going. And so that's.

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Speaker 1: Whatst part's about running lots, by the way, is that

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Speaker 1: you can expand your diet to eat stuff you normally

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to do. I just ran mine first,

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Speaker 1: not long ago as well, so we can geek ount

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Speaker 1: on a marathon.

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Speaker 2: We can't.

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Speaker 1: Listeners don't care.

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Speaker 2: They don't.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great analogy. And you are. You

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Speaker 1: were on this mission with your husband. So what it

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Speaker 1: looked like to get on the same page, and how

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Speaker 1: would you say that this debt payoff process changed your marriage.

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Speaker 2: What you're asking is exactly what is in the book

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Speaker 2: and exactly right why I wrote this last book. What

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Speaker 2: no one tells you about money, because if you go

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Speaker 2: back to the beginning of the story, I'm thinking, oh,

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Speaker 2: all we need is a plan. If we can just

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Speaker 2: have a plan, we can do this. And so I'm

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Speaker 2: telling Sam about Dave Ramsey and there's seven baby steps

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Speaker 2: and all we have to do is this is this

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Speaker 2: He's like, great, that sounds good. That sounds good. But

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Speaker 2: doing something like this with a partner, all it means

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Speaker 2: is there's double the emotion because money is already a

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Speaker 2: very emotional process as it is, which no one is

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Speaker 2: really talking about. They're talking about how much to put

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Speaker 2: in savings and what percent of yours you know, what

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Speaker 2: percentage you need in your retirement and all these numbers.

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Speaker 2: And my thing is, why isn't anybody talking about the

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Speaker 2: time that you stand in front of the mirror with

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Speaker 2: tears in your eyes and you're asking yourself, why is

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Speaker 2: this my life? And did I ruin everything? And you're

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Speaker 2: looking at your spouse wondering if your marriage is gonna

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Speaker 2: last because there's this mountain of debt between you. No

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Speaker 2: one is talking about that, And that's what this book

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Speaker 2: is about. That was the hardest part Joel is dealing

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Speaker 2: with the guilt of my husband bringing two hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand dollars into a brand new, squeaky clean marriage. Right.

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Speaker 2: Nobody's talking about that. No one is talking about the

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Speaker 2: anger you feel when you feel like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 2: I did what culture told me to do. They told

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Speaker 2: me to go to college and get an education. I

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Speaker 2: did that. They also told me to take a loan

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Speaker 2: for it, you know, they told me that when I graduated,

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Speaker 2: I could buy a brand new car because that's the

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Speaker 2: way to celebrate, and I could take a loan for it.

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Speaker 2: So there is there's so much anger, there's so much guilt.

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Speaker 2: No one talks about the pity of that you feel

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Speaker 2: when you finally do start to get your big boy

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Speaker 2: job and your big girl job and your bring home

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Speaker 2: a paycheck, but all of that money is going out

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Speaker 2: the door in debt, and you just feel sorry for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Especially in a world like today, where there's social media,

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Speaker 2: you can just open up your phone and look at

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Speaker 2: everybody else's seemingly perfect life, and all you're seeing is

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Speaker 2: how behind you are, how you should have been here

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Speaker 2: by now, how everybody else has passed you by. They're

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Speaker 2: buying houses, having cars. That is what is the hard

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Speaker 2: part about getting your money on track. And that's why

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Speaker 2: I wrote about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, how you're talking about that, like your husband bringing

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Speaker 1: that much debt into the marriage. It just makes me think,

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Speaker 1: and I'm curious, what how would you talk to people

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Speaker 1: single people who are in a relationship, they're dating someone

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Speaker 1: like I really like this person. They're starting to talk

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Speaker 1: about money, and that person's like, yeah, I have a

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Speaker 1: quarter million dollars in student loan debt. Is that this

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Speaker 1: sort of massive red flag that they should be like, whoa, whoa, whoa?

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Speaker 1: Because the truth is marriage is an economic reality as

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Speaker 1: much as it is a joining of two people in relationship, right,

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Speaker 1: And so how do you want people to think about

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Speaker 1: maybe what it looks like on the front end before

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Speaker 1: marriage as you're thinking through some of these money and

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Speaker 1: most people won't have maybe quite that of extreme of circumstances.

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Speaker 1: But actually in today's day and age, it's not terribly

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Speaker 1: extreme on the student loan front anymore.

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Speaker 2: You're exactly right, And I wouldn't say that somebody having

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Speaker 2: debt in and of itself is a red flag. It's

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Speaker 2: more about their philosophy on it, right, and figuring out

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Speaker 2: if you're aligned values wise. So, if I'm dating somebody,

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Speaker 2: I want to know first of all, I have to

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Speaker 2: be aware of my own values, right, That's number one.

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Speaker 2: What do I think about money? What do I think

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Speaker 2: about debt? Is money a good or a bad thing?

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Speaker 2: Or is it a moral? What do I think about debt?

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Speaker 2: Is their good debt is their bad. Debt is debt

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Speaker 2: completely just leverage. Right, First, you have to understand what

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Speaker 2: you think about money. Then you can bring up the

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Speaker 2: conversation to the person you're dating or maybe even your

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Speaker 2: spouse for the first time. And I think the first conversation, Joel,

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Speaker 2: is something that is just I'm just trying to get

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Speaker 2: the lay of I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to learn what you think. I'm not

378
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Speaker 2: influencing you. Tell me what do you think about money,

379
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Speaker 2: what do you think about debt? And just listen, right,

380
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Speaker 2: especially if you're dating, Please just listen, because if you

381
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,120
Speaker 2: strike up with what you think, you know, love goggles

382
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 2: will make you do crazy things. Love goggles will make

383
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Speaker 2: you go, oh well, if that's what they think, then

384
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Speaker 2: this is what I think too, right, So the number

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Speaker 2: one thing you can do is let the other person

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Speaker 2: talk first, so that they can get all of their

387
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Speaker 2: ideas out without you influencing them and them kind of

388
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Speaker 2: like going over to your side because they like you

389
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:35,880
Speaker 2: so much. Yeah, So let them talk. And then when

390
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Speaker 2: you start to hear things like, well, you know, debt

391
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Speaker 2: doesn't really bother me, you know, I plan on getting

392
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Speaker 2: a new car next year. Yeah, I don't mind the payments,

393
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: don't bother me. Then if that bothers you, yes, Now

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Speaker 2: we can start having a conversation and say things like, well,

395
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Speaker 2: what would it look like if this, you know, relationship

396
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Speaker 2: was to go further? What would it look like? Can

397
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Speaker 2: you imagine a world where we don't use debt? Right?

398
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Speaker 2: Just ask questions and find out what that is. Because

399
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Speaker 2: I will say this, if you can't get aligned, you

400
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,320
Speaker 2: will have problems later. That is probably seventy percent of

401
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 2: the calls that I get are two spouses that are

402
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Speaker 2: not aligned on how to handle money.

403
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Speaker 1: I'm curious what your reaction of friends and family were

404
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Speaker 1: so like even inviting your friends over and they're like,

405
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Speaker 1: you don't have any furniture. That's super weird and in

406
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,000
Speaker 1: your debt payoff, like your myopic focus of we're going

407
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Speaker 1: to get rid of this as quickly as possible and

408
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,080
Speaker 1: we're going to do whatever it takes, the side hustles,

409
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Speaker 1: the no furniture or whatever, to the extreme path you took.

410
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Speaker 1: What were other people's reactions around you? Was that demoralizing

411
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Speaker 1: at any point in time?

412
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Speaker 2: Well, to be honest with you, at first, We didn't

413
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Speaker 2: really televise it. It wasn't until like people started noticing,

414
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,760
Speaker 2: what are you doing? And even then it was kind

415
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 2: of like, oh, we're trying to pay off debt. We

416
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,280
Speaker 2: didn't make a big deal about it. Part of that

417
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: was we were still young. We were still in our twenties.

418
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Speaker 2: I think when you're in your early ties you can

419
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,440
Speaker 2: get away with more extreme behavior without as many questions.

420
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Speaker 2: Having roommates as grown married people at twenty three doesn't

421
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 2: hit the same as doing that at forty, right, So

422
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Speaker 2: there were I would say there were probably less questions

423
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Speaker 2: than one might think, But I will say the hardest

424
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Speaker 2: part was when we had to say no to people. So,

425
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Speaker 2: you know, your buddies, they want to go out, Hey,

426
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Speaker 2: do you guys want to you know, go to Vegas?

427
00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:25,440
Speaker 2: You guys want to go out to dinner? And do

428
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 2: you want to do this? When we were like, no,

429
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Speaker 2: we can't go, or it's not in the budget, or

430
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,240
Speaker 2: maybe we did go, but we just you know, ordered

431
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Speaker 2: a side salad, that's when the questions came, and it

432
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 2: was more so a thing of you know, your friends

433
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 2: want to have fun with you, like that's what they want.

434
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,159
Speaker 2: So when they feel like the situation maybe can't be

435
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,879
Speaker 2: as much fun. Then they say, well, can't you just

436
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,600
Speaker 2: forget about the budget for him in it? Like, can't

437
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 2: you just But then the longer we did it, and

438
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,760
Speaker 2: the more people started to see our life transform, I

439
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 2: saw those questions changed, Joel. It started as a what

440
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 2: what your budget? What? Okay, okay, whatever, And then it

441
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 2: became kind of like, well, Jade and Sam they don't

442
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,560
Speaker 2: know they have to check their budget. Like it came

443
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and then it became a feeling

444
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,960
Speaker 2: of hey, you know, I have some friends that are

445
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 2: wondering about their money. Do you think you could help

446
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,120
Speaker 2: them with their budget? Right? And so we saw it.

447
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,480
Speaker 1: Became the people who are good with money in the group.

448
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 2: You know, that's right, that's right, and so that's okay,

449
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 2: that's par for the course. I tell people all the time,

450
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 2: if you have a journey in front of you, even

451
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 2: if it's you're paying off thirty thousand dollars and you

452
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 2: make one hundred thousand dollars, right, there's still gonna be

453
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 2: things that show. If you decide to sell a car

454
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,360
Speaker 2: some you know, Bob at work is gonna say, hey, man,

455
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: what happened to your Accura, you know, and that's okay.

456
00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,479
Speaker 2: You can tell them as much or little information as

457
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,719
Speaker 2: you want to. The point is that you know why

458
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 2: you're doing what you're doing, and you're connected to a

459
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,239
Speaker 2: y at the end of it, and at the end

460
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 2: of the day, it doesn't matter what other people think.

461
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 2: Like that's a superpower to not care what other people think.

462
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to pay off that

463
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 1: insane amount of debt? Was it seven years? And then

464
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 1: what did you do once you got the point where

465
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,479
Speaker 1: you finally paid off the last little bit of it?

466
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: So from the time we got intense about it, it

467
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 2: was seven and a half years to pay it all off.

468
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: And the funny part was it was such it was

469
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 2: anti climactic in the way that we had to send

470
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 2: in a money order because it was a large amount

471
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 2: we had. It was a student loan for ninety one

472
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,919
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, and we had been piling up this money

473
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 2: because we were making a deal to pay it off

474
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:25,919
Speaker 2: for a little bit less. I think we ended up

475
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 2: paying off for seventy one and so we'd been piling

476
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 2: up the money. But you can't just transfer that money.

477
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 2: You have to do a money order, and so it

478
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: was like, we didn't have that moment where you hit

479
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,159
Speaker 2: the button and then you see the balance go to

480
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 2: zero and it's like, you know, confetti falls from the sky.

481
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: It was like, all right, let's go to Publics, which

482
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,919
Speaker 2: is a grocery store over here. Let's go to Publics

483
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 2: and drop off the money order. And then we came

484
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 2: home and we were just we couldn't believe the fact

485
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 2: that for seven and a half years this had been

486
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 2: like the main focus of everything and it was just gone. Yeah,

487
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: it was gone. And that's the part that I want

488
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,479
Speaker 2: people to understand. This thing that feels like it is

489
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 2: owning you, that feels like it is just driving every

490
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 2: decision you make, that is making you loose sleep at night,

491
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,720
Speaker 2: that is making you cry real tears, that is causing

492
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 2: you to scream at the top of your lungs, and arguments.

493
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 2: If you do the work, there will come a point

494
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: where it's just gone. It evaporates and it's never to

495
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 2: be seen again. It's the best feeling in the world.

496
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: I want to dig deeper because into the emotional side

497
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: of money, because your book covers that so well. So

498
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 1: I've got a bunch of questions, specifically on that I

499
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,399
Speaker 1: want to get to you with you, Jade in just

500
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: a sec. We'll get to that right after the break.

501
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 1: All right, we're back still talking with Jade. Warshaw loved

502
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: digging into her story, and let's take into your book

503
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: a little bit more, Jared as well, the new book

504
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 1: What No One tells You About Money? What is the

505
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 1: thing no one is telling us about money?

506
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,600
Speaker 2: Uh, it's emotional. It is an emotional journey. It takes

507
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: a lot out of you. That's the part that everybody

508
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: forgets about, Joel. Everybody focuses on the math. How to

509
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 2: pay off the debt, how much to save, when to

510
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 2: start retiring. Is it smart to pay off your house

511
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,919
Speaker 2: or not. Don't get me wrong, there is a place

512
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: for all that. But in taking that information, if you

513
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 2: don't know how to filter it through your emotions, your

514
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 2: emotions will stop you every time. I always say that

515
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 2: it's like a car. Right. If it's a car, you

516
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 2: know the car is your behavior and your beliefs are

517
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: in the driver's seat, right, and then your emotions are

518
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: what steer the wheel. So if you have a behavior

519
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,560
Speaker 2: you want to do, I want to get out of debt,

520
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 2: like that's the car it's like, Okay, I'm gonna get

521
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: in the car of paying off debt. But then your

522
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: beliefs are sitting right there in the driver's seat. Do

523
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: I believe I can actually do this? Do I believe

524
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: if you believe you'll do it? You can smash on

525
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: the gas, right, you can start driving. But then the

526
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: moment it starts feeling unc comfortable. Wait, what did you

527
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: tell me I have to do? You're telling me to

528
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 2: take the money out of savings and pay off, you know,

529
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: to pay off my debt or right. That feels bad.

530
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: That makes us feel unsafe. It makes us feel like

531
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 2: things are out of control. Right. So it's so important

532
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 2: to understand the emotions, because the emotions will make us

533
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: hit a tree. The emotions will make us turn the

534
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 2: car around and go in the opposite direction. Right. And

535
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: so that's what I realized with Sam, is that you've

536
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: got to first understand how this is making me feel.

537
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: What's causing me to retreat, what's causing me to not

538
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 2: pull the trigger on that decision, what's causing me to

539
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: avoid the conversation every single time? Right? And I found

540
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: that it kind of boils down to really five main

541
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: ones that we talk about in the book. The first

542
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 2: one is frustration, Right. Frustration happens when we know what

543
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 2: to do. We know all the practical money advice that

544
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: the experts gave us, but it's like we're trying to

545
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: do it and it's just not working right. It feels

546
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: like all the effort we're doing is not matching our results.

547
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: And that's frustrating.

548
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: Why would you like drops in the bucket? Right, like

549
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 1: y'all making the progress is not I'm not getting the

550
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: progress for what the effort I feels like I'm putting in.

551
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 2: Right. Why would you keep doing a workout plan if

552
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 2: you're not losing any weight or building any muscle?

553
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: I wouldn't.

554
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 2: I wouldn't. And so that frustration a lot of times

555
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: boils down to are you actually doing it the right way?

556
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: Yeah?

557
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: You know? And so I talk about that in the

558
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: book how to kind of get around that? And because

559
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: you won't do something long if you're frustrated, it drains

560
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: your energy. Have you ever had a jol like a

561
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: zipper that's stuck for sure, and you're just like trying

562
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 2: with all your might to fix the zipper And finally,

563
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: what do you do? You just pull the jacket off

564
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 2: and just throw it and put on something else.

565
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: That's right.

566
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, money is the same way, And so I'm trying

567
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 2: to get people, Hey, let's get the cloth out of

568
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: the zipper so you can zip it up, wear the

569
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: shirt you want to wear.

570
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: For most people, what does it look like to uncover

571
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: the emotional barrier that's maybe preventing them from reaching the

572
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: success or hitting those financial goals that they want. Because

573
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: I think you're spot on. It's so true. Like when

574
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: you first start to think about money, it does seem

575
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 1: like it's a simple math thing, but really there's so

576
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 1: much inner personal stuff going on behind the scenes that

577
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: is preventing our ability to hit those goals that want

578
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: to hit, or to pay off the debt we want

579
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: to pay off, and to keep going in pursuit of

580
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: those goals. How do we identify what it is it's

581
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: holding us back.

582
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what the book is. I'm helping you

583
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: decipher what certain behaviors mean. So, for example, if you're

584
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: a person who you're noticing, or maybe your spouse is noticing,

585
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: or maybe your friends have called it out that you

586
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,119
Speaker 2: have a hard time celebrating other people when they're winning financially.

587
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 2: Maybe you're that person who your best friend. If your

588
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: best friend gets a promotion or your best friend buys

589
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: a new car, you kind of get a little irritated

590
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: with it. It's hard for you to go, oh my gosh,

591
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: great job, that's amazing and really feel sincere. You're a

592
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 2: person who kind of makes even though you don't like

593
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: that you do it. You kind of make these passive

594
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 2: aggressive comments, Oh well, I mean if my husband made

595
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 2: that much money, I do that too. Or it must

596
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 2: be nice to be able to go on vacations like that, right,

597
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: you start making these passive aggressive comments. Or maybe you're

598
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: a person you're constantly comparing. I mean, I mean they

599
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 2: just started that job and she's already making seventy thousand.

600
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I've been in this job and I haven't

601
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 2: gotten a single Right, you're always comparing to somebody else,

602
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: but you're never focusing on your own blessings or good things.

603
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 2: You're just calling out why it's unfair that they have

604
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 2: that and you don't. Those are behavior patterns, and they

605
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: point to a person who's very angry. Right, And when

606
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 2: we're in that state, it's very hard to make progress

607
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: because when you're angry at everything out here. You have

608
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: to remember, anger wants justice. That's what it wants right

609
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,239
Speaker 2: At its core, it's I've been done wrong and it

610
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 2: has to be made right. And the world today, when

611
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 2: there's so much out there that is affecting us inside,

612
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 2: real estate prices are high, we just have a complete

613
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: cost of living crisis, right with inflation and wages not

614
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 2: keeping up. That's all out there, but it's affecting us,

615
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 2: and it's making us mad that we can't buy a house.

616
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: It's making us mad that we're actually contemplating if we're

617
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 2: going to have two kids instead of one because of

618
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 2: the price of living right, And it comes out in

619
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 2: these comments, and it comes out in these actions. And

620
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 2: if we don't stop and go what is that, we're

621
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: going to be so mad thinking everybody else owes us

622
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: something and that that's the solution. The problem is out there.

623
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: Therefore they need to make it right. The government needs

624
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: to fix my student loans. My boss needs to give

625
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 2: me a raise so that I can get right instead

626
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: of going you know, I'm really mad. I can see

627
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: this anger brewing. I need justice. They're not gonna do it.

628
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: Maybe there's something I can do and now I can

629
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: start putting some motivation behind that anger, and I can

630
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 2: start pointing it and directing it at certain things that

631
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: I want. I want to get out of debt, screw

632
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 2: the government, I want a better marriage, screw my boss.

633
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: Right now, we can actually take that anger and use

634
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 2: it as fuel to get the thing we want instead

635
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: of just using it as excuses to cust somebody out

636
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 2: or make a snide comment, or you know, just shake

637
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: our hand at the government or at the air. Right.

638
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it might might feel justifiable, but that doesn't

639
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: mean it's valuable or helpful. Right, And so you have

640
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: to understand what's going on beneath the surface, so you

641
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: can say, why is it that I'm feeling that way?

642
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: And you can underdress the address the underlying emotion so

643
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: that then you can redirect it in a more positive,

644
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 1: more positive way. You write in the book, you write

645
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: about dodging the truth. How crucial is it to get

646
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: an accurate assessment of where things stand? Because that's another

647
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: thing that people deal with is like, yeah, I'm just

648
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: going to you know, the truth is heading at me.

649
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to sidestep it so that I don't have

650
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: to deal with it.

651
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: Head on. Yeah. I mean this is where the practical

652
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: and the emotion completely overlap, right, because yeah, you need

653
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 2: to there's a part of this. You need to know

654
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: the numbers. You need to understand how much debt you're in,

655
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: you need to understand what your assets are so you

656
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: can start the work of solutioning it. Right. But if

657
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 2: you kind of have a feeling about it, A lot

658
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: of times, that fear is what keeps us in the dark,

659
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: that fear of not wanting to open up the closet,

660
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: right because there's a monster in the closet and we

661
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: don't know exactly what it looks like. That's really what

662
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: that is. And so the longer we keep things in

663
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: the dark, we really don't know what's going on. I mean, Joel,

664
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: I know you help folks with their money all the time.

665
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 2: I do too, and I'm always shocked when I ask

666
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: somebody a simple question like well, how much do you

667
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: make and it's kind of like, well, I mean I

668
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 2: think it's like somewhere around right, and I'm thinking, why

669
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 2: don't you know how much you make? Why aren't you

670
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: looking at your pay stuff? Or if I say, you know,

671
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: for a month, how much money does it just take

672
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: to make your house run, like I know you probably

673
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 2: have a little extra or but how much does it take?

674
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, what do you mean? And I'm like,

675
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: you know, just like if you just look at your budget.

676
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: And so those are those moments where I go, there's

677
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 2: something that's making you not look at this is it

678
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: because you know deep down inside that you're I don't

679
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 2: know that your mortgage is fifty percent of your take

680
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: home and that's that's been bugging you and you know it,

681
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: but you just don't want to. It's like you don't

682
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: want to put it out in the open. Do you

683
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: know deep down that you spend way too much on

684
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: door dash? That's why you don't want to say when

685
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 2: I ask, hey, how much do you spen on groceries

686
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: every month? I don't know. It's somewhere around, you know,

687
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: it's different every month. No, we have to look at

688
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: these numbers and it is emotional. We're gonna feel a

689
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: little bit of guilt that we go to target and

690
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: spend way too much. We're gonna feel a little bit

691
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: of anger that our student loans and our car payment

692
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: and our credit card is eating up you know, twenty

693
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 2: five percent of our income. That's going to make us

694
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: feel a little bit guilty. It's gonna make us feel

695
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: angry that we signed up for the debt. Right, we

696
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 2: have to let ourselves feel that we do, and we

697
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 2: have to acknowledge it so that we can get to

698
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 2: a point of kind of accepting these are the choices

699
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: that I made. That's okay, Like life is about making mistakes.

700
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: It's research. That's fine, But let me acknowledge this so

701
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: that I can now move forward and get to a

702
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 2: point of accept and go, Okay, I made that choice,

703
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: that's fine, But what are the choices I'm going to

704
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 2: make next. I can accept the situation for what it is,

705
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: and I can accept the process for what it is

706
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: to change it.

707
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: You mentioned fear as being one of the common emotions

708
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: right the people experience, which is totally understandable, especially when

709
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: we talk about people's lack of personal finance literacy. And

710
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: so it's like, I feel like I have to learn

711
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: a new language just to navigate these problems that I've

712
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: brought on myself through bringing on debt. And you had fear,

713
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: like when you were going through this process, you even

714
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't just that your debt would be with you forever.

715
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: But you mentioned the book you had this fear that

716
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: it would cost your husband is life, which I thought

717
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: was like, really interesting. Can you delve into that a

718
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: little bit what that fear was that was hitting you

719
00:32:58,640 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: in that time?

720
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: So so glad you brought that up, because, to be

721
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: honest with you, that for me is one of the

722
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: most important parts of this book. But it's a heavy

723
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: topic and so a lot of times people skate around it,

724
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: and I'm so glad you asked directly. Yeah, when you

725
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 2: have half a million dollars of debt and you're bringing

726
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: in probably by that time that we really were understanding

727
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: the numbers, maybe we were bringing in sixty seventy thousand

728
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: dollars a year, you do look at yourself in the

729
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,400
Speaker 2: mirror and you go, am I worth more dead than alive?

730
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 2: Would it be better for my family? Because right now

731
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 2: the situation that I'm putting them in is horrible. And

732
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 2: when I tell you, Joel that, the guilt of that

733
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: is crushing in the shame of that is just it's sad.

734
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 2: I remember getting ready for bed at night and my

735
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 2: husband he was standing in front of the mirror and

736
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 2: he was brushing his teeth and he didn't see me,

737
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 2: but I I could see his reflection in the mirror

738
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 2: as he was brushing his teeth, and he was gone,

739
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 2: like he was gone. And I just remember in my

740
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 2: heart going God, please, please, we got to get out

741
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: of this. We've got to get out of this. Because

742
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: people don't talk about that, the fact that you can

743
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: feel like such a failure. You're not. You're not a failure,

744
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 2: made a bad choice, you got bad advice, but people

745
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 2: wear that as an identity and that's when the shame

746
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: sets in and it's so dangerous. And my biggest want

747
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: and my biggest prayer was that I could help him

748
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: see you're not the problem, because he would say things like, man,

749
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: I just ruined everything, like I'm the reason that we're

750
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: not getting ahead. I'm holding you back, I'm holding you down.

751
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 2: And I would be like, no, the debt is the problem, Like,

752
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: let's tackle that. And so when people get to that point,

753
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 2: it is you have to start to understand here's where

754
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: I'm at and here's where I'm saying, I've got to

755
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,959
Speaker 2: forgive myself. I've got to let it go, and you've

756
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,240
Speaker 2: got to lean into the people who would love you

757
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: and are telling you the opposite because they see it.

758
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 2: They can see that you're not the mistake. They can

759
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: see that, hey, it was a bad business plan. It

760
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 2: wasn't it's not you.

761
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: Let's be honest. Though in some relationships you that's that's

762
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: not the response you're getting from your spouse. That's true,

763
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: and so you do that. That might be where marriage

764
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: therapy comes in handy, right, to help you navigate some

765
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: of those waters, because if you have a kind of

766
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: compassionate and understanding spouse and you guys are on the

767
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: same page, that's wonderful. Yeah, not every marriage is in

768
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: that place, and it's like, no, you did bring this

769
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: on me, Like why did you bring this into the marriage?

770
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: What are you doing to me? And so there can

771
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: be that dynamic at play. Fortunately you guys didn't have

772
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: that going on.

773
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I talk about that in the book. I'm

774
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: really taught that's part of the anger section, when when

775
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 2: your spouse is not of help, when they're kind of

776
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: making it tough, when they're not as sympathetic or maybe

777
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 2: they're the maybe they are the problem. Like that does

778
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 2: happen when it's like we've said we were going to

779
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: get out of debt, but you're still going and spending

780
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 2: money and you're still not caring about the budget. Yeah,

781
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: that'll make you angry. I talk about that in the book,

782
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: but I also talk about I want to go back

783
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 2: what you said about therapy and having some help mentally,

784
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 2: because that's part of the tools. Like if you're going

785
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 2: to go on this journey. We talked about rewards and

786
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 2: milestones earlier, but another part of this, like mental check ins,

787
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: You got to have that, and you got to make

788
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 2: sure you have the help of somebody that you trust,

789
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 2: whether it's a professional therapist or counselor or because some

790
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: of us need that next layer. Sometimes you can just

791
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: go to a friend and vent and get it out,

792
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: but a lot of us we are carrying real issues

793
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: that need help, and I never want to minimize that.

794
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: Whether it's something you did or something you experienced in

795
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 2: childhood or in a previous relationship that you're bringing into

796
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 2: your current situation, you are playing yourself. If you're not

797
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 2: thinking that that is influencing how you handle your money,

798
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 2: because it one hundred percent is.

799
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: And let's be honest, there are things that are happening

800
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: when you have the debt. It's not just the headline

801
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: number that's overwhelming. You write about being frustrated when debt

802
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: collectors are lowing up your phone. That's adding to the

803
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: emotional stress, and so it's really hard. I mean, the

804
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: fact that you saw your husband in that moment is

805
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing because you're also feeling overwhelmed and you're

806
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 1: getting those those voicemails left on your phone and you're

807
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: just like, what in the world, Like, we're trying our

808
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: best here. How did you deal with that confluence of

809
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 1: emotion trying to pay off the debt while also having

810
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship with your husband, Like that just feels

811
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 1: like you're fighting battles on every front.

812
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 2: We were, you know, it's funny. A lot of what

813
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 2: I write about in this book, it's kind of like

814
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: kindsight is twenty twenty, right, you can see now, oh,

815
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 2: this is what we did. In the moment. It wasn't

816
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: called anything, it was just survival. But now I can

817
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 2: look back and go, oh, here's what we did and

818
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: here's why it worked. So those moments were you know,

819
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: I felt I've always been the type of person that

820
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, deal with the emotions later, just

821
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 2: do the things now, right, that's I've always been that way.

822
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: But what happens that starts stacking up and immediately, you know,

823
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: eventually you crack. And that's what happened to me. I

824
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 2: talk about it in the book Debt Collectors, calling my

825
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: phone moment after moment, every five minutes, and finally I

826
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 2: just was like enough, like no more, we need to

827
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: do something right. And I was so desperate, Joel. I

828
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: had rent money in my hand and I was ready

829
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 2: to give it to Capital One just to get them

830
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: to just leave me the heck alone, leave me alone.

831
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: And my husband, who's pretty level headed, I mean, he's

832
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: if I'm the extra one, he's the calm one. He

833
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: was like, Jade, we can't do that, Like we need

834
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: to come up with a better solution than that, and so.

835
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 1: Keep your head so you know, eventually pay off the

836
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: credit card debt.

837
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 2: But those are those moments where were able to balance

838
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: each other out, which is why I say you need

839
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: people in your life. You need if you're single, you

840
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: need people in your life that can hold you accountable

841
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 2: because you will have a moment where you're ready to

842
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: do something dumb in the name of desperation, and that

843
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,240
Speaker 2: person needs to be able to go hey, hey, hey, don't

844
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: do that. Let's talk about a better way. And then

845
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: that ended up us going through and saying, hey, what

846
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 2: are we missing. Here's the problem. Now we can fix it,

847
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 2: and now we can create, you know, relieve some of

848
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: that frustration.

849
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: All right, so much good stuff. I have a few

850
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: more questions I want to get to with you, specifically,

851
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a few questions about debt.

852
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: Curious to hear your take. Just a few more questions

853
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: with Jade Warshaw. We'll get it right back to that

854
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: after this. All right, we're back still talking about Jade

855
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: Warshaw and just such a great new book that's well

856
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: worth well worth checking out. It's called What No One

857
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: Tells You About Money, And yeah, the emotional side of

858
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 1: money is so powerful and it might be like ninety ten.

859
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're waiting it out the math

860
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: versus the emotion. It feels like emotion is certainly the

861
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 1: predominant thing that maybe it's an unexpected thing and you're like, wow,

862
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: I have so much when it goes back to childhood too, right,

863
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: how are you raised with money? And what are those

864
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 1: scripts that are hanging out inside of you because you

865
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: haven't really explored them. Jade, I've got a few more

866
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: questions I want to get to. I want to like,

867
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 1: I'm curious should should people be willing to put off

868
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: bigger life and family decisions while trying to pay off debt.

869
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: Let's say you're like, we're ready to start a family,

870
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: and you're like, well, no, it's not going to be cheap.

871
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: Do you push forward get started anyway? When you got

872
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 1: debt hanging out that you want to pay off.

873
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I definitely think this is a deeply personal decision.

874
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 2: I'm all for family planning because the truth is it's

875
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: as much economical as it is emotional. Now, if somebody

876
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 2: calls in and wants my advice, I'm never gonna say

877
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: don't have a family right that. I will never tell

878
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 2: you that. I will never say you need to pause

879
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 2: having children in order to pay off debt. I'm not

880
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,319
Speaker 2: going to tell you that. But what I am going

881
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: to tell you is family planning can be very helpful

882
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 2: if you embrace it. It can help you create the

883
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: life that you want. It can help you create the

884
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 2: values and that you want to see in your household.

885
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: They can one hundred percent that being said again so

886
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,800
Speaker 2: deeply personal. You know, my husband and I for us

887
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 2: where we were, the way I grew up, the way

888
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 2: he grew up, we knew when we have children, we

889
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 2: just want them to be in a financially peaceful household.

890
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: That's all we want. And so for us, worth the

891
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,959
Speaker 2: sacrifice I had children. I didn't start having children until

892
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 2: age thirty six. Totally worth. It wouldn't change it for

893
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: the world. Somebody else might go, Jade, I would never

894
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: do that. You know, I want to make sure that

895
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,240
Speaker 2: I'm you know, starting my family now, Hey, more power

896
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 2: to you. Just understand, and I say, I mean, yesterday

897
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: I was hosting The Ramsey Show. A family called in

898
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: pastor five kids and now he's fifty eight and looking

899
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: up realizing, hey, hasn't put aside any money for retirement,

900
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: and we had to remind him, no shame. But just

901
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 2: remember you're everything you do, you're making a choice. You

902
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: make a choice of the number of children you want.

903
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: In most cases, you're making a choice to remain in

904
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: a profession. You're making a choice to not invest in

905
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 2: instead pay for kids to college. You're making all of

906
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: these choices, and that's okay. Just understand that when they

907
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: pile up and create a result, you got to be

908
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: okay with the result.

909
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Sometimes I think having kids can be a surprise.

910
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: It can be a motivator actually to get your stuff together.

911
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 1: As you're building your family, you're like, oh, man, I've

912
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: got I got to be an adult here on many levels,

913
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,839
Speaker 1: including my finances. And I think for some people it

914
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: is that kick in the pants. Just had my first kid,

915
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: and now I got to figure out what a roth

916
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: ira is. No, no, I've got three kids, all right.

917
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 1: Now what I'm saying, if you hit that point where

918
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: you just had your first kid, right, it can feel like, oh, now,

919
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: this is the impetus for me to actually get the

920
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 1: ball rolling on some of this stuff, all right, Maybe

921
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 1: a couple of rapid fire questions. Investing while paying off debt?

922
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: Yes or no?

923
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 2: No?

924
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 1: Can any debt be good? A home home okay? Okay,

925
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: anything else I'm okay.

926
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: I'm okay with somebody going into debt for a home,

927
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: but let's eventually get it paid.

928
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Student loan debt, can it be good?

929
00:42:59,640 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: No?

930
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,959
Speaker 1: Okay? So you got to go to school debt free

931
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: or don't go?

932
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah?

933
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: Okay, low rate mortgage debt is not bad or is bad.

934
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 2: If you plan to keep it around forever. It's bad

935
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,959
Speaker 2: if you plan to pay it off in the term

936
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 2: fifteen years.

937
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, good, fine, Okay. What's one piece of money advice

938
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,720
Speaker 1: you used to believe but you don't believe it any longer.

939
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: A piece of money advice I used to believe, Oh,

940
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 2: that debt is a tool to help you win.

941
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: Okay, So you used to think that debt could be

942
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: something that accelerated your progress, and now you believe it's

943
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: only a weight holding you back. Yes, okay, yeah, final

944
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: words you have for the how to money audience.

945
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: Final words would be the time is going to pass anyway.

946
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,720
Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is it's twenty twenty

947
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 2: five and at some point it's going to be twenty

948
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: thirty five. Okay, So ten years is going to pass,

949
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: and you can be in one of three places. You

950
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: can look up ten years from now and things can

951
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 2: be exactly the same. You're still, you know, robing Peter

952
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 2: to pay Paul, barely making ends me, arguing about money,

953
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 2: moving this debt with a lower interest rate over here

954
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 2: to a no interest rate, thinking about doing a he

955
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 2: lock right. Ten years can pass. Things can be a

956
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: lot worse because you didn't do anything. You can be

957
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 2: looking up and thinking, oh my gosh, the student loan

958
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: payment has ballooned with interest. Am I a person who's

959
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: eligible for bankruptcy? I didn't see myself losing this job,

960
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 2: and I didn't know that four oh one K loan

961
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: could become due in this way, right, things can be

962
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 2: worse or today you can take this opportunity and go.

963
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 2: What they're saying is really resonating with me, and I

964
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: have to make changes, and I'm going to make changes.

965
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 2: And then because of that, you can look up in

966
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: ten years and your life be so radically different that

967
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,439
Speaker 2: you don't even recognize who you are in twenty twenty five.

968
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 2: And that's the place that I'm sitting. I don't even

969
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: recognize some of the things in the person I was

970
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 2: ten fifteen years ago. I want that for you. That's

971
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 2: why I wrote the book What No One Tells You

972
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 2: About Money?

973
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: Love It? Where can how do money listeners find that

974
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: book and find out more about you?

975
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 2: Jade? Absolutely so find the book at ramseysolutions dot com

976
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 2: slash store. It's right there. I mean, obviously you can

977
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 2: find it places like Barnes Andnobleamazon, Target dot Com, all

978
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 2: of that. But you know, Ramseysolutions dot Com is a

979
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: great place to purchase it because there's other things that

980
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: go along with your debt payoff journey, so you can

981
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 2: bundle it with other really really helpful tools. And yeah,

982
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 2: find me on social media. I'm on Instagram at Jade Warshaw.

983
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 2: I'd love to hang out with you and talk to you.

984
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: Love it, Jade, Thank you so much for taking the

985
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,440
Speaker 1: time today. Really appreciate it.

986
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

987
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: Woo. All right, that was good stuff. So thankful that

988
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: Jade joined me today. And I think, I think what

989
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: makes this conversation so powerful really is Jade's story. And

990
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: I think we as humans respond to stories. Why some

991
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: of our favorite books are fiction, Like the worlds that

992
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: can be built and the people that we can construct

993
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: can be so complex and interesting, fascinating, and it just

994
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,120
Speaker 1: that story, the narrative, it like sticks with us or

995
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 1: it's why a song can be catchier and we can't

996
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 1: get get it out of our head, right, And I

997
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 1: think that Jade's story is such is one that a

998
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: lot of people can relate to, and it's seven and

999
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 1: a half years to pay off almost half a million

1000
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: dollars in debt. That was a slog and I think

1001
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: in some ways she took us down to the depths

1002
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: of that. But even in the book you see a

1003
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: lot more of the emotional difficulty of all the incredible

1004
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: side hustles that she got into in order to try

1005
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: to pull out every stop in order to get rid

1006
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: of that debt in short order as quickly as possible.

1007
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: She treated it like she wanted to be done with it,

1008
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: and yeah, when you're making thirty K and you've got,

1009
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, debt up to that to that degree, you

1010
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: got to find some creative ways to go about tackling it.

1011
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: The fact that she was able to get rid of

1012
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: it in seven years and be completely debt free is admirable.

1013
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway was when she said, your

1014
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,919
Speaker 1: emotions will stop you every time, and I think it's

1015
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: so true. It really is, like emotions are much more

1016
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 1: a part of the process of being smart with money,

1017
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 1: of handling money well, of building wealth, of paying off debt.

1018
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Then I would have given it credit for when I

1019
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: first kind of started thinking about personal finance, because it

1020
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: was to me initially a math equation, how am I

1021
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 1: going to find I think back in the day, it

1022
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: was like five grand was the cap on what you

1023
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: could put into roth Ira. How am I going to

1024
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: find five grand a year to put into the wroth

1025
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: But really, once you start digging a little bit beneath

1026
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: the surface, you're rubbing up against emotions. You're rubbing up

1027
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 1: against your history. You're rubbing up against family history, things

1028
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 1: are your parents taught you, and those can be tough

1029
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: things to deal with. And she said, also double the

1030
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: emotion if you're doing it with someone else. So if

1031
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,040
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship and you're trying to attack the

1032
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: these goals together, whether it's debt payoff, whether it's wealth building,

1033
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: like you're when you double the emotion, you almost like

1034
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: compound the problem. Dealing with your own emotion is one thing.

1035
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: That's what my wife is a marriage counselor, and she says,

1036
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: doing the counseling with couples is so much harder. It's

1037
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: almost like playing zone defense first man to man, and

1038
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 1: so it gets more complex. And the truth is the

1039
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: same if you're in a relationship and so being cognizant

1040
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: of the emotions that each of you is bringing to

1041
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: the relationship, finding outside help if you need it in

1042
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: order to get on the same page. Getting dealing with

1043
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: those emotions in a positive way is what's going to

1044
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: help you make the progress, and it's going to hold

1045
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: you back if you don't, if you let those emotions

1046
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: linger and fester. And what Jade said right there at

1047
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: the very end, ten years from now, where are you

1048
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: going to be if you haven't dealt with those emotions?

1049
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 1: My guess is you won't have made nearly as much progress,

1050
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: and you won't feel the positive impact of making that

1051
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: progress because those emotions left untended. So i'd encourage you

1052
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 1: to check out our book to think more about the

1053
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: role of emotions when it comes to your finances. And

1054
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: thank you as always for listening to this podcast. I

1055
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. You find more info about Jade about

1056
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: her new book up on the website at howtomoney dot com.

1057
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: Until next time, best Friend Out.