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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber Productive. iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese

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Speaker 1: and I'm.

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Speaker 2: Lauren vogel Bum and today we have a classic episode

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Speaker 2: and an update for you about si Rachia.

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Speaker 1: Oh yes, because a lot, as I'm sure a lot

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Speaker 1: of you have probably heard, has going on in the

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Speaker 1: world of Siracha. Oh okay, well right, So so this

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Speaker 1: episode originally aired in April of twenty eighteen, so our timeline,

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Speaker 1: you know, cuts off there. And I was not aware

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Speaker 1: that there was drama.

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Speaker 3: Oh I was because.

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Speaker 1: Because it suddenly became impossible to find Siracha. Right, you

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Speaker 1: could find it on eBay for like one hundred plus dollars. Sure,

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Speaker 1: and so I was you know, I had.

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Speaker 4: Being you you looked into it, sure.

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Speaker 3: And I learned a lot.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, so we're gonna it's it's a super fun episode.

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Speaker 2: So we're let's go ahead and run the episode and

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Speaker 2: then afterwards we'll do some updates.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, okay, here we go.

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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to food Stuff. I'm Annie Resa and

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Speaker 1: I'm Lauren vocal Bam.

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Speaker 2: And all of your intro lines are so good. And

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Speaker 2: then I always wind up being the one who's who's

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Speaker 2: tasked with delivering though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you're so good at delivering intro lines.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you.

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Speaker 4: This is food Stuff's hottest episode to date.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, see because we're talking about sarracha siracha.

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Speaker 3: Can you remember the first time you had siracha?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Oh goodness? Can I No? I cannot. I think the

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Speaker 2: first time that I realized that it was becoming very

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Speaker 2: common was maybe about oh, I want to say.

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Speaker 4: Six years ago, right around then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Maybe wait, maybe eight?

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Speaker 2: Oh good.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it's been a while a while.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it was more like ten. Maybe I have no idea.

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Speaker 2: You have no clue what dates are made of. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But when I started seeing it in like in like.

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Speaker 3: Pubs, oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Like otherwise American or English style pubs, I was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is this is here now real real, yeah, big time.

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Speaker 3: How about you. I think I tried it.

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Speaker 1: I tried it pretty recently, and I remember I think

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Speaker 1: it was our very own Tracy V. Wilson, who she

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Speaker 1: was talking about how most of her food she saw

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Speaker 1: as like a conveyance to get saracha to her mouth

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Speaker 1: or something, and I was like, well, I've got to

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Speaker 1: try this, and I very overly ambitiously. I just put

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Speaker 1: way too much. It was good, but it's it's spicy, spicy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and I like tears were coming out, nose

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Speaker 1: was running, and I remember being sad that this was

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Speaker 1: my first experience, but knowing it was good and I

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Speaker 1: should return.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right again, that was my first sushi with Sabby experience.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, but.

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Speaker 2: Another story, another episode, Yes, that was Sabby episode.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so s racha, what is it for me?

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Speaker 1: Always spicier than I think every single time, but I do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love this stuff. It's called rooster sauce pretty commonly

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Speaker 1: because of the rooster logo based on Hoifong's brand siracha

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Speaker 1: based on inventors the inventor's zodiac sign. Yeah, I thought

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Speaker 1: that was an interesting fact or. It's also sometimes called

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Speaker 1: hipster ketchup.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's a condiment or of sauce eate up of red pepper, vinegar, garlic, sugar, and.

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Speaker 2: Salt, plus maybe a couple extra preservatives to prevent microbial

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Speaker 2: growth and to keep it bright red.

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Speaker 1: Right, And it is spicy, about one thousand to two thousand,

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Speaker 1: five hundred units on the Scoville scale.

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Speaker 3: Tangy, a little sweet.

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Speaker 2: The Scovale scale if you haven't heard of it, or

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Speaker 2: if you are not sure how it works. Ranks, how

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Speaker 2: like spicy hot things are based on the sensitivity of

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Speaker 2: human taste buds. If you take a spicy thing and

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Speaker 2: dilute it with water, eventually you will get to the

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Speaker 2: point where the human tongue cannot detect the heat Anymore's

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Speaker 2: ranking of one thousand to two thousand, five hundred Scoville

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Speaker 2: heat units means that you would have to dilute it

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Speaker 2: by that many times in order to make the heat undetectable.

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Speaker 2: So like, if you have an ounce of sperachia, you'd

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Speaker 2: have to add anywhere from one thousand to two thousand,

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Speaker 2: five hundred ounces of water before you wouldn't be able

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Speaker 2: to feel the heat at all anymore.

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Speaker 3: That's quite a lot of water, I know.

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Speaker 2: Also fun facts about the Scoville scale. This is determined

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Speaker 2: these days through much more precise, high performance liquid chromatography

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Speaker 2: instead of like physical taste testers as it was back

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Speaker 2: in the nineteen teens when it was invented. I do

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Speaker 2: not envy those people. I like spice a lot, but

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Speaker 2: whoof Yeah, Also, the scale does have a bottom. I

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Speaker 2: think think of something like bell peppers or pimento perhaps,

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Speaker 2: but it does not have a top Carolina Reapers are

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Speaker 2: among the world's hottest known peppers and have been ranked

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Speaker 2: at over two million shus oh Man.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a video of Joe McCormick, one of

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Speaker 1: our coworkers, trying at Carolina reaper, just straight up eating

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Speaker 1: it and it kind of went all wrong, and you

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Speaker 1: feel bad for him, but it's also funny. Well, it

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Speaker 1: went wrong in the sense that it's incredibly spicy. You

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Speaker 1: can tell just by watching, Oh said it felt like

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Speaker 1: I think getting stung by thousands of bees.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, oh well, now I remember that video.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but it is mother in law was trying to

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Speaker 1: be helpful and it was like, I'll get you some milk,

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Speaker 1: and she gave him some milk and he took a

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Speaker 1: sip and it was expired, like really expired, really bad expired.

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Speaker 3: And then we tried that chip.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Over on the Facebook live show Snack Stuff that

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Speaker 2: Ben Ball and and I do, our producer Ramsey had

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Speaker 2: gotten us one of these Grim Reaper Carolina chip. It's

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Speaker 2: a single chip. It comes into single coffee shaped package. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and we had we shared like a fraction of it.

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Speaker 2: And then after the show was over and he atee

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Speaker 2: a fraction of it too, And I responded much more

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Speaker 2: strongly than she did.

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Speaker 3: It was quite spicy.

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Speaker 2: It was quite spicy.

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Speaker 4: Your poker face is great.

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Speaker 1: I learned from Lady Gaga. The biggest brand of saracha

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Speaker 1: sauce is the aforementioned Hoy Funk Foods in the United States,

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Speaker 1: and that's the classic bottle you see with the.

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Speaker 4: Green with the green cap and the green rooster logo.

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Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, it's owned by David Tran of Vietnamese immigrant

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Speaker 1: The name Suracha itself comes from hot sauces from Si Racha,

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Speaker 1: a town in Thailand, and those chilies are key, not

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Speaker 1: just for obvious reasons, but also because they are made.

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Speaker 1: Siracha is made with fresh chilies, not dried chili. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this has presented some obstacles. According to Tran quote,

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Speaker 1: we can only grow as quickly as our ability to

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Speaker 1: harvest chilies grows. In twenty sixteen, that came out to

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Speaker 1: one hundred million pounds around forty five million kilos of

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Speaker 1: fresh chilies. That has to last an entire year, which, well,

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Speaker 1: due to our love of this stuff, is not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a given. And I will touch on this later, but

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why you don't see ads

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Speaker 1: for siracha.

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Speaker 3: Oh huh.

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Speaker 2: They're like, well, we basically sell everything that we make already.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we're doing what we can. Let's look at

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Speaker 1: some numbers. If we take hot sauce as a whole,

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Speaker 1: the industry is in the top ten of America's fastest

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Speaker 1: growing and globally, sales exceed one billion dollars. What yeah

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Speaker 1: HOI fun food Sacha sold twenty million bottles in twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: coming out to around sixteen million dollars in At twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles hosted the first La Seracha Festival. I hear

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Speaker 1: tail there's a whole serracha manu at Taco Bell but

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Speaker 1: it is or was, I'm not sure if it's still around,

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Speaker 1: made in house, not the Hoifung brand.

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Speaker 3: If any of you listeners know about that.

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Speaker 2: Right and let us know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the reasons it's so popular is because

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Speaker 1: it is so versatile. It's good straight but also good

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Speaker 1: for mixing with other sauces or condiments like mayo. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: you can add it to soups like fu use it

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Speaker 1: as a marinade in cocktails. It was Bonapetite's ingredient of

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Speaker 1: the Year and twenty ten.

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Speaker 4: I had a siracha milkshake one time.

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Speaker 2: What. Yeah, Yeah, I can't say that I enjoyed the

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Speaker 2: experience of it.

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Speaker 3: Was it like ice cream?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And like peanuts, like peanut sauce.

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Speaker 3: This is blowing my mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Is this local local plays?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? It was at Pallukaville. Oh.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they have many an interesting milkshake over there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this one might have been too interesting.

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Speaker 1: Too too much perhaps, However, it shows that uh siracha

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Speaker 1: can be used in many, many ways and it has

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Speaker 1: been absolutely Yes. A lot of copycats are trying to

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Speaker 1: get in on this game, and the lawyer behind Saracha's

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Speaker 1: creator reports this means an annual four to five infringement complaints.

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Speaker 1: Like people, I've seen pictures. The bottle is very similar designed.

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Speaker 2: Right, because they they don't actually have it copyrighted. That

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Speaker 2: anyone can make a sauce call it siracha.

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Speaker 1: Sure, but you the logo, the look precisely is what

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Speaker 1: is getting these copycats in trouble and tran. The guy

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Speaker 1: behind Serracha is a very interesting fellow.

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Speaker 3: Despite being at.

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Speaker 1: The helm of an extremely lucrative brand, the success of

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Speaker 1: which has led to a cult like following merchandise and

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Speaker 1: a documentary. He isn't interested in being filthy rich, or

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Speaker 1: that's not his main goal anyway. He claims to never

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Speaker 1: have raised Seracha's wholesale price, never mind inflation. He says

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Speaker 1: he's not entirely sure who the distributors are, just that

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Speaker 1: he has been using the same ten for over ten years,

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Speaker 1: and that he's only certain that it's sold in the US, Canada,

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Speaker 1: and Europe, but he speculates it sold.

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Speaker 3: In other places. He doesn't know for sure.

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Speaker 1: I would speculate that too, though, I think that's probably

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Speaker 1: a very good guess. Yes, Sir Racha's never been officially advertised.

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Speaker 1: Like I mentioned, He's refuted several offers to buy the

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Speaker 1: company and intends to keep it in the family his

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Speaker 1: son and daughter of the president and vice president, respectively.

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Speaker 1: And he once said, rather than being a billionaire, he

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Speaker 1: simply wanted to make a fresh chili sauce so that

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Speaker 1: everyone who wants hoy fun can have it.

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Speaker 3: Nothing more. Huh, Yeah, that is not your typical CEO, no.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 1: He also said he's going to keep making it until

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Speaker 1: no one wants it anymore and then they'll stop.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I think that's a long way off based on

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Speaker 2: some of yeah.

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Speaker 3: The coming details.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I would say, probably going to be making it

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Speaker 1: for a lot longer. So let's look at some of

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Speaker 1: those details that led to sacha becoming this huge behemoth

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Speaker 1: of a condiment.

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Speaker 2: Right, But first let's take a quick break for a

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: The history of saracha goes all the way back to

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Speaker 1: nine thousand BCE, when someone was looking to add a

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Speaker 1: kick to their omelet.

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Speaker 3: No, just kidding. It actually all started with Thomas Jefferson

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Speaker 3: in France. What now, buddy, fake out.

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Speaker 1: The consensus is that the first person to make siacha

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Speaker 1: was a Thai woman named Tannam Chukapuk over eighty years previous.

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Speaker 3: At first, she.

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Speaker 1: Made the stuff mostly for her friends and family, but

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Speaker 1: eventually she made it available for purchase under the name

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Speaker 1: Siraha Pant. This version is a bit thinner and tangier

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Speaker 1: than what most of us are probably used to. You

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Speaker 1: can still find it in some specialty stores and I

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Speaker 1: believe on Amazon Prime if you are interested. If we

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Speaker 1: look at David Tran and Hoi Fun Foods Suracha specifically,

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Speaker 1: Tran had been working with Chili in Vietnam since nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy five. His first hot sauce, pepper Sate, came in

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Speaker 1: baby food jars and he mostly reserved them also for

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Speaker 1: his family members, and I think Can delivered them on

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Speaker 1: a bike.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, escaping from increasing persecution of Chinese

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Speaker 1: people by the new Communist government in Vietnam, he took

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Speaker 1: a freighter by the name of Hoi Fung to the

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Speaker 1: United States, and later the name of the freighter would

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Speaker 1: be the inspiration for the name of his company, Huh Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Chan arrived to the US as a refugee. He found

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Speaker 1: the American hot sauce scene lacking, so he set out

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Speaker 1: to come up with his own recipe. He set up

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Speaker 1: shop in Chinatown near a, Los Angeles in a five

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Speaker 1: thousand square foot building in nineteen eighty. Along with this

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Speaker 1: pepper sate sauce, he started selling a chili, garlic sauce,

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Speaker 1: sambule olik and of course suracha.

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Speaker 2: Various kinds of sembole are my other favorite thing on

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Speaker 2: the planet. I add them to all the stuff I'm

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Speaker 2: not entirely sure what those are. To be honest, I

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Speaker 2: saw them on the website and I'm very interested to

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Speaker 2: try them. I've got like three different kinds in my

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Speaker 2: house right now. All, okay, we work this out.

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Speaker 3: Yes, awesome.

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Speaker 2: It's like a thicker, chunkier kind of chili.

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Speaker 3: Sauce, kind of like maybe salsa meets chili sauce.

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Speaker 2: Like salsa meets sirechia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah oo, yep, I'm on board.

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Speaker 1: At first, transold his creations out of the back of

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Speaker 1: a van, a blue Chevy van, according to the Hoifan website. Yep,

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Speaker 1: he delivered directly to Asian restaurants. As sales and profits

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Speaker 1: increased at an unforeseen rate. Over seven years, Chan moved

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Speaker 1: to a much larger sixty eight thousand square foot facility

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Speaker 1: in Rosemead, California, started developing his own custom equipment, and the.

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Speaker 3: Company was born. Yes.

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Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety six, sixty eight thousand square feet was

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Speaker 1: not enough to satisfy surata demand, and Hoifung moved two

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Speaker 1: doors down to the old Whammo building, upgrading to one

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Speaker 1: hundred and seventy thousand square feet. If you don't know

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Speaker 1: what Whammo was, it was a place that sold frisbee

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Speaker 1: slipping sides hula.

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Speaker 3: Hoops from what is it?

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Speaker 2: From Whammo? I don't know. There was this like perky

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Speaker 2: lady voice or child voice that was always at the

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Speaker 2: end of the.

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Speaker 1: Commercials Man, I was so good at hula hooping and this.

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Speaker 1: I'd forgotten about slipping sides until we did this, And

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Speaker 1: now I'm like nostalgic for that.

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Speaker 3: The slipping side time of my life.

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Speaker 2: I always injured myself. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: They were painful, like there's no cushioning right, you launched

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Speaker 1: yourself and you're just pretty much.

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Speaker 2: In belly flopping onto hard soil.

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Speaker 1: But still I missed them. Nonetheless, nostage is funny that way.

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Speaker 1: Trans said of this in the documentary about Saracha. Before

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Speaker 1: that building was filled full with hula hoops, now filled with.

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Speaker 3: Chili I love. But even that wasn't enough.

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Speaker 1: Trans relocated operations to a six hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: square foot facility in Erwindale, California, in twenty ten, though

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Speaker 1: it wasn't up and running until a few years later.

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Speaker 1: The facility could produce three thousand bottles of seracha per hour.

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Speaker 3: Huh yeah, And this brings up.

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Speaker 1: The Great Saracha Panic of twenty thirteen.

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Speaker 2: All it was very serious.

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Speaker 3: I actually do remember this one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it seems and not. Everyone in erwin Dale

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Speaker 1: was thrilled with the new siracha factory and specifically the smell.

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Speaker 1: A Los Angeles Superior Court ordered the factory to shut down,

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Speaker 1: to which Tran hung up a sign that read, in

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Speaker 1: all caps.

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Speaker 4: No cheer gas made here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Seracha had to pause operations. Hence, Panic ten cities

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Speaker 1: contacted Tran offering to host the factory. However, moving would

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Speaker 1: not be so easy. All of the fresh chilis and

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Speaker 1: chili farmers were in California and he didn't want to

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Speaker 1: have to lose all of his employ The solution came

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Speaker 1: in the form of an upgraded filter for the ventilation system,

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Speaker 1: and the lawsuit was dropped in twenty fourteen. That same year,

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Speaker 1: Tran open the doors to his factory to the public

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Speaker 1: for the first time, in his words, to prove they

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Speaker 1: don't make tear gas inside. It sounds like a very

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Speaker 1: Willy Wonka esque tour too.

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Speaker 3: I really want to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently there's there's weird like memorabilia rooms. They have

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Speaker 2: fire hydrants that are specially branded with the serrachia loco.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: In Atlanta.

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Speaker 1: I remember this happening because one of my favorite local

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Speaker 1: food trucks, Yumbee, they have it Caeso siacha sauce, and

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Speaker 1: as you can guess, it's very popular. And when the

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Speaker 1: serracha panic happened, the customer fan base freaked out that

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Speaker 1: their sauce habits would be impacted, and Yumbee brought out

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Speaker 1: all the saracha they could find to make sure that

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Speaker 1: they would not run out.

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Speaker 3: People are very serious about this.

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Speaker 2: They are well and there. Yes, their case of siracha

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Speaker 2: is really tasty, so I understand it is it is.

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Speaker 2: As of twenty sixteen, Haifung's siracha finally started being distributed

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Speaker 2: in his home country of Vietnam.

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Speaker 4: Oh, where it is popular.

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Speaker 2: Although apparently not a complete hit yet. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of hot sauces on the market out there, and so,

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Speaker 2: you know, so it's kind of it's a tie style

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Speaker 2: thing and a viet in Vietnam and all kind of

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Speaker 2: working it out. But for some people over there, they're like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, this is the best thing that's ever happened.

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Speaker 4: More of this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it is quite delicious and I love this story.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a good one. It's a good company history story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but we do have some science for you

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Speaker 2: up to and including what's up with that bad smell

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Speaker 2: from the saracha factory?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what's love with that?

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Speaker 2: But first we have one more quick break for a

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Speaker 2: word from our sponsor, and we're back.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 2: So, as you have probably noticed, a few compounds in

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Speaker 2: hot peppers are irritants to mammalian mucous membranes.

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Speaker 1: Uhh, yep, oh, things are starting to fall into place now.

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Speaker 2: Yes, your your eyeballs, your your mouth, your sinuses. There

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Speaker 2: are a couple of things in hot peppers that will

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Speaker 2: irritate any of them. This is also the science behind

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Speaker 2: why people get so excited about spicy foods. Really, oh really,

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Speaker 2: kep sayin is great? Yeah, and okay in the case

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Speaker 2: of siracha, siracha also does have salt and sugar, and

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Speaker 2: those things also make people kind of excited some of

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Speaker 2: the time, as we have discussed before. But you know,

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Speaker 2: those are a essential parts of our diet, so our

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Speaker 2: brains reward us for seeking them out. Spicy hot stuff.

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Speaker 2: Not really, Oh, now, there are no essential nutrients in

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Speaker 2: capsaisin that I'm personally aware of, and it also sugar

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Speaker 2: and salt do not to the same extent injure us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not that immediate bird anyway.

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Speaker 2: But capsasin does interact with our nerves and brains in

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Speaker 2: a very interesting way. It is one of the active ingredients,

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Speaker 2: so to speak, in hot peppers, which probably evolved to

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Speaker 2: make it in order to protect their seeds from fungal

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Speaker 2: or other microbial infections. Cap Sasin and other similar particles

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Speaker 2: sometimes called capsasinoids, are antimicrobial. They may also deter the

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Speaker 2: kinds of animals that eat their fruit without properly spreading

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Speaker 2: their seeds, like birds, for example, would just swallow the

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Speaker 2: seeds and then spread them far and wide, where mammals

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Speaker 2: might chew up the fruit a little bit too much

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Speaker 2: and kind of masticate the seeds in the process. So

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Speaker 2: they evolved this this irritant to many mammals taste receptor nerves.

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Speaker 3: Mm hmmmm, all jokes on you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because then humans got here. We're a little bit

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Speaker 2: masochistic apparently, all right. We've talked on the show before

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Speaker 2: about how our taste buds and other taste receptor nerves

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Speaker 2: work in our mouths and our sinuses, not just on

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Speaker 2: your tongue. They're in other places mucus membranes. Yeah, all

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Speaker 2: of those nerves are set up to react to particular compounds.

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Speaker 2: Some will send signal to your brain when they encounter

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Speaker 2: sugar or other sweet tasting molecules. Others react to salt

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Speaker 2: or something bitter or sour or savory or spicy. As

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Speaker 2: the brain collects those signals repeatedly and from enough individual nerves,

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Speaker 2: we experience whatever flavor those signals add up to. And

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Speaker 2: the particular nerve receptors that are activated by capsaicin our

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Speaker 2: proteins called TRPV one, and these happen to be the

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Speaker 2: same proteins that tell us when something is physically hot,

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Speaker 2: like temperatures above about one hundred and nine degrees fahrenheit

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Speaker 2: that's forty three degrees celsius will trigger it. It's also

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Speaker 2: the same nerve that tells us about electrical voltage. And

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Speaker 2: when these nerves are activated and send signals to our brain,

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Speaker 2: our brain interprets these signals.

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Speaker 4: As ah, something is very wrong and it's causing damage.

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Speaker 3: We're like, ah ha, well we get that way.

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Speaker 2: For a couple of very particular and excellent reasons, because

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Speaker 2: this warning triggers a couple of reactions. First, you experience pain,

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Speaker 2: which is the body's way of telling you that you know,

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Speaker 2: like you've done stuck your hand in a fire.

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Speaker 4: You should probably pull it out, probably.

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Speaker 2: But your nervous system also gives you extra resources to

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Speaker 2: help you cope. It may trigger your fight or flight response,

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Speaker 2: so you're alert. You can react in order to prevent

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Speaker 2: more damage, like getting away from the fire or putting

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Speaker 2: it out perhaps, and your nervous system will work to

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Speaker 2: lessen the pain. It will release endorphins into your system

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Speaker 2: to block the pain signals, and dopamine to calm you

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Speaker 2: down and make you feel like you know, everything's going

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Speaker 2: to be all right. M h. It's been compared to

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Speaker 2: the rush of euphoria that you get during a runner's high.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, this is a serious thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you can bear out that first pain

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Speaker 2: part of spicy foods, that second part can be pretty nice.

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Speaker 2: There's even been research into how capsation might be used

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Speaker 2: to moderate chronic pain.

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Speaker 1: Ooh yeah, m I can't wait to do an episode

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Speaker 1: on to dive deeper into spicy foods.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, absolutely, Oh maybe maybe we could get that

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Speaker 2: Joe McCormick back. I know he loves talking about that.

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Speaker 3: He does.

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Speaker 1: We have a lot of spicy food aficionados in the office.

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Speaker 2: We do. Oh and I can tell you, I can

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Speaker 2: tell you from firsthand experience about that runner's high kind

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Speaker 2: of kind of feeling, euphoria, feeling we uh. One time

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Speaker 2: on one of Jonathan's Jonathan Strickland's Facebook live shows, he

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Speaker 2: held a hot sauce eating contest and he had like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe like fifteen or twenty bottles lined

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Speaker 2: up in order of least to most spicy, with the

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Speaker 2: most including like Carolina Reaper and stuff like that. And

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Speaker 2: I jumped in after the stuff that bothers my stomach,

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Speaker 2: but in so right around the like the like Habinaro

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Speaker 2: session and on. And I guess so I must have

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Speaker 2: tasted ten or twelve hot sauces just in a row,

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Speaker 2: and not a lot of them, just like a couple drops.

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Speaker 2: But like the thing ended, and my boss came up

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Speaker 2: to talk to me, and I was like, I can't

439
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 2: talk to you right now because I feel so high.

440
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 2: I was just like bracing myself on the table and

441
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: I was not okay. I was not okay for like

442
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: maybe half an hour, and it wasn't. I mean, I

443
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: don't know, like like the physical It was really funny.

444
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 2: Dylan joined us for that exp varience as well. He

445
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: as cool as a cucumber. Y'all sounds about right. Remind

446
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: me to never play poker with the two of you

447
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 2: because because both of you, I've witnessed eat like the

448
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 2: spiciest stuff that I've ever put in my face, and

449
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 2: you were both like, huh, that's spicy.

450
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 3: But on the inside we were screaming.

451
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: I was screaming on the outside.

452
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I'm so interested. I love spicy food.

453
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.

454
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: But I have I've learned that I'm not well. I

455
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: perhaps when I travel to Asia, I learned that maybe

456
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: I am not as strong as I like to think

457
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: I am.

458
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 3: It's a different kind of spice.

459
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 2: It is, it is, and there are different One of

460
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 2: the things that I found when I was researching this

461
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 2: is that there are different types of spices will hit

462
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 2: you a little bit differently. Ye, long versus shortened, Yeah,

463
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So hull Yeah, really excited about looking

464
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: more into that. Absolutely, and you do build up a

465
00:25:58,359 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: tolerance over time.

466
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: Yes, this is true, and that brings us to the

467
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: end of this classic episode, but it also brings us

468
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: to some pretty juicy updates.

469
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, I feel a little bit.

470
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: I try.

471
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 2: Look, man, I have a personality flaw in that I

472
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: love gossip. I love it, and I know that that's

473
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: not good. I know that that's like not a positive

474
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: human quality, so I really try to tamp it down.

475
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 2: But the further that I looked into this, the more

476
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, this is way too juicy to

477
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 2: not share with everybody.

478
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 4: Okay, So yes, all right.

479
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 2: So our timeline pretty much ended at like twenty sixteen ish,

480
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 2: and I will say that this sauce and or flavor

481
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: kind of hit its like peak hipness or popularity back

482
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 2: around when we did this episode, but it's sort of

483
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: hasn't gone anywhere in the meanwhile, aside from off the shelves. Occasionally,

484
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 2: I feel like it's less a trend now and more

485
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: like a part of daily life, Like it is just

486
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 2: normal to go to a grocery store and see the

487
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: flavor saracha marketed on all kinds of packaged products like

488
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: ketchup or mayo or ramen or frozen chicken nuggets. Or

489
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 2: potato chips, you know whatever, and I will say that.

490
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: In the meanwhile, the Hoifang brand has expanded throughout most

491
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: of Southeast Asia. As of twenty eighteen, they were making

492
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: some eighty million dollars in revenue every year, up some

493
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: sixty million two years prior so expanding. But it has

494
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 2: not all been peachy for Hoifang. The brand has been

495
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 2: going through, as Annie said, as we both just said,

496
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: shortages again on and off since summer of twenty twenty, which,

497
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 2: to be fair, like a lot of products hit supply

498
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: shoes in twenty twenty, it was sort of a thing.

499
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: This has been a more systemic problem.

500
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:04,400
Speaker 3: All right.

501
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: In July of twenty twenty and then again in April

502
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty two, the company released statements about jalapena

503
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: shortages preventing them from doing full production runs, and so

504
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 2: during that like stock ran out and demand has had

505
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: third party sellers like basically hot salt scalpers offering bottles

506
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 2: for right thirty dollars and more of pop where they're

507
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 2: usually what like five bucks.

508
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 3: And you couldn't get it in your when you got delivery.

509
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: No oh, certainly not certainly not no, no, yeah, some

510
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 2: stores were just out right and okay. All of the

511
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: strange weather conditions that have happened been happening in the Southwest,

512
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: brought on by climate change over the past few years,

513
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: you know, drought and fires and flooding. All of these

514
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: have indeed affected crop output in that area, and this

515
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: is where these jalapenos are grown. Climatologists are in fact

516
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 2: calling the conditions in northern Mexico and or the southwestern

517
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: United States a mega drought, like the driest twenty years

518
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 2: that we've had in the last thousand years plus. And

519
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 2: it's actually really concerning to some agricultural experts because small

520
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: peppers like these are fairly sturdy, drought resistant kind of plants.

521
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 2: I've seen it called a canary in the coal mine

522
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 2: of climate change in like multiple journalistic outlets. However, I've

523
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: also read that these particular jalapenos are like a little

524
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: bit more finigy about needing water than most. So I

525
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know, But at any rate, there's

526
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 2: more to this story.

527
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 3: Oh do tell all right?

528
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: The trouble actually starts back in twenty sixteen. It either

529
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 2: wasn't really being reported on at the time, or if

530
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: it was maybe we weren't looking in the right places.

531
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: Like the keyword searches can let you down sometimes, But Okay,

532
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: what happened was Hoifang broke up with its long term

533
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 2: pepper farm, Underwood Ranches. They'd been partnered together since nineteen

534
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 2: eighty eight, like going back to before the Whammo factory days.

535
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

536
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: However, in twenty sixteen, David Tran said that they had

537
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: overpaid Underwood by like one point five million dollars for

538
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: that year's crop. Tran then started buying from other farms

539
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: and sued Underwood for that money. Underwood countersued for business damages,

540
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: and they won eventually a twenty three million dollar judgment

541
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: in total minus. However, that original one point five million

542
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: It is an amazingly sticky mess and so dramatic and

543
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 2: honestly does not paint Tran in a very pleasant light

544
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 2: at all. The long and short of it seems to

545
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 2: be that Tran and his company were kind of banking

546
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 2: on like being able to source cheaper peppers on the

547
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: open market instead of contracting with this one farm. But

548
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: the weather has not cooperated, you know, these have not

549
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: been bumper years, and demand for peppers is outpacing supply

550
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: in general, and so without dedicated growers working with him,

551
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 2: Tran has not been able to source enough peppers to

552
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 2: produce enough sauce to keep up with demand for it.

553
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: But but that's.

554
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: That is glossing over the drama. Dude, do you guys

555
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 2: do you guys? Do you guys want to talk about

556
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 2: the drama?

557
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 3: You know we do?

558
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: Okay, what we have here is a case of food

559
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: fraud or like food related fraud at any rate.

560
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 4: Uh okay?

561
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: So Haifang Foods had been partnered with Underwood Ranches for

562
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: twenty eight years through this period of tremendous growth that

563
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: the sauce brand went through. Right, They sometimes sourced peppers

564
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: from other farms to meet demand, which was fine, But

565
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: Tran also worked really closely with Craig Underwood, the farm's owner,

566
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: on some mutually beneficial deals over the years. According to

567
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: the court paperwork, which is a fascinating read, by the way,

568
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,520
Speaker 2: around two thousand and six, when Tran was getting ready

569
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 2: to move into that even bigger plant in Irwindale, Tran

570
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: came to Underwood all like, Hey, I need more peppers.

571
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: I would rather buy peppers from you, So if you

572
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: expand your acreage. I'll pay you by the acre grown

573
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: instead of by the pounds produced, So like, you don't

574
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 2: have to worry about putting all your peppers in one basket.

575
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 2: Like even if you have a lousy crop one year,

576
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 2: I'll pay you the same for it. However, it turns

577
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 2: out this was a pretty great deal for Underwood. So

578
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: over the next ten years, Underwood went from making about

579
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: a quarter of its revenue selling peppers to Hoifong to

580
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 2: making like eighty percent of its revenue there with trans encouragement,

581
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: they leased a bunch more land for pepper growing. They

582
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 2: developed this new mechanical harvester to help them pick more efficiently.

583
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: They were just really bouncing along with this mutual success

584
00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 2: of these peppers and this brand of sauce. And this

585
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 2: brings us to twenty sixteen. Everything seemed to be going

586
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 2: relatively business as usual. Through the first week of November

587
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: of twenty sixteen, Craig, Underwood and Tran met to talk

588
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: about their plan for the twenty seventeen season. They talked

589
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: about the preparations that were already underwayh Tran agreed to

590
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: eighteen million dollars in advance payments for what would become

591
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: seventeen hundred acres of peppers, which he would eventually pay

592
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 2: a little over twenty two million four in total. Okay,

593
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: lots of money, lots of land, lots of peppers. A

594
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: week later, the floor falls out. Tran suddenly says that

595
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 2: Underwood needs to start selling him peppers by the ton,

596
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: not by the acre, and furthermore at like five hundred

597
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 2: bucks a ton, which I don't know anything about peppers,

598
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: but I guess that's low, and that Underwood needed to

599
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: make the contract for this. With this this new company

600
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: that Tran had started called Chiliko okay, which is all

601
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: a lot, especially a week after going through this whole

602
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: plan for twenty seventeen. So it turns out the Tran,

603
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: along with Hoifung's COO, Donna Lamb, who happens to be

604
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: Tran's sister in law, they had been working on starting

605
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: up this company, Chiliko for a couple of years, with

606
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 2: the purpose of Chiliico obtaining peppers for Hoifung Foods. Tran

607
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: later testified that he created the company in order to

608
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: give ownership to Lamb and Liu of a salary increase

609
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 2: at Hoifung because he didn't think that the board would

610
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: have approved the salary increase, but that's not really here

611
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: nor there. But so anyway, so suddenly Tran was saying

612
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: that that Underwood had to sell him peppers by the

613
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: ton at five hundred bucks a ten and that he

614
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,720
Speaker 2: actually had to sell them to Chili Coo. But Chili

615
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,399
Speaker 2: Coo didn't even have the liquidity to send along any

616
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: advanced payments and Hoifo wasn't going to cover it either. Ooh,

617
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: and meanwhile, Tran had tried to hire Underwood's COO won

618
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 2: Jim Roberts away from Underwood three times. The first one

619
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 2: Roberts had sort of like blown off as a weird mistake.

620
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 2: The second two happened in the middle of this whole

621
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: like November December twenty sixteen, absolute cluster hug.

622
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 4: So okay, so.

623
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: Roberts was like, no, I'm not doing that, no, thank you.

624
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 2: Underwood said no to all of this and thus ended

625
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: the contract, which was a total financial disaster for Underwood.

626
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: You know, they had empty farmland they couldn't get out

627
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 2: of their leases. This contract ending cut again eighty percent

628
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,799
Speaker 2: of their revenue. They had to lay off like forty employees,

629
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,359
Speaker 2: like half of its staff immediately. Hoifang, meanwhile, was fine

630
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 2: for the moment, like they contracted out with other farms

631
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: and showed those other farms confidential video the Underwood had

632
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 2: sent of how this new mechanical harvester that they had

633
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 2: developed worked ooooooooo. And then and then Hoifong sued Underwood

634
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: for that one point five million dollars in overpayments for

635
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen's crop. So Underwood countersuit for a breach of

636
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: contract and intentional contractual fraud, basically saying, like y'all knew

637
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 2: that you didn't want to keep working with us, you

638
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: encouraged us to get even deeper into the hole for you,

639
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: and then you dumped us. That's unchill and yeah, and

640
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 2: the jury awarded Underwood thirteen million dollars in actual damages

641
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: and an extra ten mins million dollars in punitive damages

642
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 2: to be paid by Huifang minus at original one point

643
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,840
Speaker 2: five million. But the mess, the mess did not end there.

644
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: No, because Hoifang appealed.

645
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: By then, this was twenty nineteen. You know, Underwood had

646
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: already spent a couple of years in the whole now,

647
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: and they were looking at another couple more In the

648
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: appeals process before potentially seeing the settlement money. So they

649
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 2: wound up accepting a litigation finance deal from an investment firm.

650
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 2: The firm like floated them four million bucks that they

651
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: would not have to pay back if they eventually lost

652
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 2: to the case, but that they would have to pay

653
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 2: back double if they eventually won investment at one hundred

654
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: percent hoofta. But it was kind of what they had

655
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: to do to continue with this court process. They didn't

656
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: have the money for it otherwise. The courts did eventually

657
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: decide to uphold the original decision Hoifong had to pay

658
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: Underwood out in summer of twenty twenty one. Yeah, like wow,

659
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: like just holy like y'all could have made this better

660
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 2: for yourselves at any.

661
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 4: Point, but you did not.

662
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 3: No, just dug a hole deeper and deeper. Houfta.

663
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,959
Speaker 2: Uh Leslie Stall actually did a segment about this whole

664
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: thing on Sixty Minutes in late twenty twenty two with

665
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 2: a focus on that litigation funding aspect, because you know,

666
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: it's basically like betting on the outcome of a court case.

667
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: And although it can be cool because right like it

668
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: can help small businesses that can't afford to go through

669
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: with court cases. But it's also this multi billion dollar

670
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 2: investment business that has very little oversight, and some experts

671
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 2: worry that it's predatory or even just on a very

672
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: basic level, changing the way that the law works in

673
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,320
Speaker 2: this country.

674
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 3: So that's the whole thing. A bottle of sachia.

675
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,240
Speaker 4: I think it's probably cool for small businesses.

676
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 2: Most of the time, big businesses are actually trying to

677
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 2: get are the ones trying to get this stuff shut

678
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: down and regulated more strongly, which always makes me think

679
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: it's a good idea. However, I would say that on

680
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 2: like a personal level, you should probably never take out

681
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 2: one of these loans because it's a little bit more

682
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: hazardous and you might not fully understand what you're getting

683
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 2: into anyway.

684
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 4: Okay that aside, Yeah, yeah.

685
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: Underwood, you know, paid their eight million bucks back to

686
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 2: this investment firm, and they're doing They're doing great now.

687
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: They occasionally get reached out to for interviews about how

688
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: the Jalapanio climate change issue is going, and they're like,

689
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: we have no problem sourcing peppers.

690
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 4: We're doing great.

691
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 2: They started producing their own saracha and some ball and

692
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: garlic chili paste in twenty twenty three, which I think

693
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 2: is very funny. Yes, you can buy that at Underwood

694
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: Ranches dot com if you so choose to, And yeah,

695
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 2: it would not.

696
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: End of the day.

697
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: It really wouldn't surprise me if Hoifang Foods was having

698
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 2: so much trouble sourcing peppers because farmers are unwilling to

699
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 2: work with them.

700
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, makes sense.

701
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: I feel like after watching all that go down, I

702
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: would also be reticent.

703
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

704
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: I will say also, a thing that I've seen happen

705
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: in the fallout of all of this is that a

706
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: lot of people are like, you can make your own sarachias.

707
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 3: Not that hard. I have not tried it. I know

708
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 3: neither here nor there, but I just know I have

709
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 3: seen a lot of articles like thank you.

710
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's certainly a lot of articles out there that

711
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: are that are like, out of siracha, here's substitutions for you.

712
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 3: Go for it.

713
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm definitely using I have like half a bottle left,

714
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: and I use it so sparingly, quite hilarious.

715
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: I think I think I have like a local supermarket

716
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 2: brand at this point, which I did before I knew

717
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: all of this, Although yeah, I think right that is

718
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,439
Speaker 2: probably what I shall continue doing.

719
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 3: Well, what drama to visit in this revisit.

720
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you all for coming with me and

721
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 2: my gossip bender.

722
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 3: Oh thank you and yes listeners.

723
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: If you have any information about the thoughts about this

724
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: recipes brands, please let us know. You can email us

725
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,360
Speaker 1: at hello at sapod dot com, and we are also.

726
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: On social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

727
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to

728
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: hear from you.

729
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,839
Speaker 4: Savor is production of iHeartRadio.

730
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

731
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.

732
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: Wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

733
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

734
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots

735
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way