1
00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know from how Stuff Works

2
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,720
Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

3
00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:21,080
Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bright. There's Jerry Hello. Hello, Hello, Hello.

4
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: Jerry's got a top hat on. I know, I don't

5
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: know why. I don't know. She's trying to be all

6
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 1: Mr Monopoly or P. T. Barnum. Oh yeah, I forgot

7
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: he wore a top hat allegedly. Oh no, he did.

8
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 1: I saw a picture of it. Yeah, Hugh Grant certainly did.

9
00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,159
Speaker 1: Hugh Grant, Hugh Jackman, Hugh Laurie. I think it's no,

10
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: it's Clive Owen. You're thinking, yeah, Hugh Jackman, Man, where's

11
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 1: that top hat? Like a champ? He does? Um, I

12
00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 1: don't know how much you went on the internet for

13
00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,040
Speaker 1: this one, because this is a pretty comprehensive article actually was,

14
00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,840
Speaker 1: but um, The Greatest Showman really set the Internet on

15
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 1: fire Man and a lot of like it really brought

16
00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: out a lot of people saying like, whoa, whoa whoa

17
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 1: whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Yeah, this is the the

18
00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,480
Speaker 1: very definition of the word fantasy. Yeah, it seemed like

19
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: that movie was can be best described as a musical

20
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:33,240
Speaker 1: whitewashing mm hmm in every sense of that word. So

21
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,679
Speaker 1: let's destroy it. Yeah, I mean after reading this, I

22
00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,959
Speaker 1: didn't think, like man P. T. Barnum, what a complete

23
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 1: a whole. No, he was just a lot more complicated

24
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 1: than that and did a lot of stuff that you

25
00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 1: just shouldn't just pass over because you can't figure out

26
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 1: lyrics too. What what why? What raps with racism? Uh? Yeah,

27
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: I mean he was. He was definitely an enigma and um,

28
00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: it seems like he did some good. But also, I

29
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 1: mean he was a hustler man for sure. So this

30
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,320
Speaker 1: is what I didn't fully understand until researching this chuck.

31
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,639
Speaker 1: He he was He's known as the greatest showman, right,

32
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 1: but there were plenty of other showmen out there at

33
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 1: the time, which makes sense because you have to have

34
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: something to compare, to be compared to, to be the greatest, right.

35
00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: But I I guess I had just assumed he was

36
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,200
Speaker 1: like the first or the originator. No, he was not

37
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 1: the first showman. He was a great showman. What he

38
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:41,280
Speaker 1: really left his mark on was introducing America to pure,

39
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: unadulterated hucksterism and using it for marketing. Humbug that's what

40
00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:49,200
Speaker 1: he called it, and he had he had a lot

41
00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,760
Speaker 1: of quotes somewhere somewhere, definitely something he said like every

42
00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,160
Speaker 1: crowd has a silver lining, which means you can shake

43
00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:58,880
Speaker 1: it out of him and get some money from a

44
00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 1: bunch of people. Right, Yeah, the one about a sucker

45
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 1: board every minute. That's never been successfully attributed to him. Well, yeah,

46
00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 1: And one thing is for sure, and uh is that

47
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,400
Speaker 1: his autobiography is I think if you order it, it

48
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 1: comes with a salt lick, so you can just lick

49
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 1: on that salt while you're reading it. Right. I don't

50
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,600
Speaker 1: know what that means, but it seems like something that

51
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: they would do. Yeah, I mean he he uh. I

52
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: think when the man is writing about himself, it's like,

53
00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: you know what, you may just want to believe a

54
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: third of this. I would take it with a grain

55
00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,880
Speaker 1: of salt, but so much so that you need an

56
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: actual salt lick. I got it, now, I got it. So,

57
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,920
Speaker 1: So there is one quote that I think kind of

58
00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: describes this guy best, or at least his philosophy, and

59
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,920
Speaker 1: it also kind of reveals like you can't call him harmless,

60
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,520
Speaker 1: but also the intentions were not entirely evil, right, he

61
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: had a quote it said that, um, people don't mind

62
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: being deceived so long as they're being amused at the

63
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,160
Speaker 1: same time, which it does, and it largely lets him

64
00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:11,240
Speaker 1: off the hook as far as being a huckster. Right.

65
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,200
Speaker 1: But the thing that that The Greatest Showman really glossed over,

66
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: just outright ignored, was that a lot of the the

67
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,039
Speaker 1: amusements that he was presenting to the public were extraordinarily

68
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 1: degrading two people at the time, Um, they were super racists.

69
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,240
Speaker 1: There were, um, just a lot of There was just

70
00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:36,920
Speaker 1: a lot of exploitation. He made his money not just

71
00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: by hustling Americans, but by exploiting other Americans too, right. Um.

72
00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 1: And again, like this, a lot of this is contextual.

73
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: It's not necessarily fair for later generations to judge previous generations,

74
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,919
Speaker 1: although it's really fun to do. Um. But yes, you

75
00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: could say, like this guy was exploitative even even in

76
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,440
Speaker 1: compared even compared to like his contemporary right. Perhaps so

77
00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 1: he is just this very complex character who I think

78
00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 1: you and I can agree was not an evil person.

79
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 1: He just did some horrible things here there. Should we

80
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,240
Speaker 1: go back in time? Yes, let's all right, let's go

81
00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,240
Speaker 1: back to the beginning, let's hop in the way back machine,

82
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,560
Speaker 1: which is appropriately steampunky right now. It takes many forms.

83
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if people realize that it has a

84
00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 1: clock without the glass and you can see the parts inside,

85
00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:38,359
Speaker 1: but it doesn't actually function. It's strictly for decoration. So

86
00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,360
Speaker 1: let's go back to eight ten, back to Bethel, Connecticut,

87
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 1: where this man was born, Mr Phineas Taylor Barnum. Um.

88
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,160
Speaker 1: He had sort of a mixed family life. He I mean,

89
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,279
Speaker 1: he was they point out in this article. He was

90
00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 1: firmly American. His great great great grandfather came over from

91
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,839
Speaker 1: England as an indentured servant in the seventeenth century. Eventually

92
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,080
Speaker 1: became a landowner, but they didn't It's not like they

93
00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,360
Speaker 1: had a ton of money. His dad, Filo great name, yeah,

94
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:11,600
Speaker 1: all these are great names. Was he was not super successful. Um.

95
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,240
Speaker 1: So it was kind of up to young pt to

96
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 1: Um to make his own way in life. Right as

97
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: his father was a farmer, which introduced um Phineas to

98
00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,640
Speaker 1: the idea that he really hated like manual, mindless work. Now,

99
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,880
Speaker 1: he didn't like doing that farm work, but it's that's

100
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,279
Speaker 1: not to say he didn't like work. He just liked

101
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,840
Speaker 1: very specific kinds of work where his energies were appropriately

102
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,880
Speaker 1: chanted building people out of money. Sure, yeah, I mean

103
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 1: that was that was kind of it. He liked. Um.

104
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 1: He was the definition of the word enterprising, right, she

105
00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,280
Speaker 1: could figure out a way. He could look at something

106
00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 1: literally look at something that you couldn't you could almost

107
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,359
Speaker 1: not give away, you certainly couldn't sell, and turn it

108
00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,320
Speaker 1: into pure profits like like he got into lauteries for

109
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,680
Speaker 1: a little while once, right, Yeah, I mean he went

110
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,320
Speaker 1: he went to work. He left the farm into work

111
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,479
Speaker 1: at a country store and realized quickly, like, just because

112
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 1: you're in the country doesn't mean there aren't like swindlers

113
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,000
Speaker 1: and cheaters out here. So he kind of learned some

114
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 1: of the tricks of the trade there. His old man

115
00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,640
Speaker 1: died when he was fifteen, uh, and he was kind

116
00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 1: of his his mom had his mom had to get

117
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,160
Speaker 1: a job. But he was basically like, all right, it's

118
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: kind of up to me now to provide for my family.

119
00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,360
Speaker 1: So he moved got that another job as a store clerk,

120
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,680
Speaker 1: and as you said, got into lotteries. Yeah, And he

121
00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 1: was early on pursuing a career at clerkship, which I

122
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: guess is a thing. But but yeah, so there's this.

123
00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,680
Speaker 1: He saw easy money and lottery, so he set up

124
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 1: one himself. Apparently when he was working for these owners

125
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 1: of the store, um, they were away at one point

126
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,720
Speaker 1: and he got his eyes on some um tin kitchenware

127
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,080
Speaker 1: that just would not sell. So he took some other

128
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,680
Speaker 1: stuff that wouldn't sell at that store. These things weren't his,

129
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,679
Speaker 1: by the way, and he traded him for a bottle

130
00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 1: collection of I guess was the thing that people wanted

131
00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 1: at the time. And he put those things up as prizes, right,

132
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,360
Speaker 1: and he started a lottery and these were the prizes,

133
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,480
Speaker 1: and there were cash prizes. But he ended up selling

134
00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,920
Speaker 1: like a thousand tickets or something like that in this

135
00:08:14,960 --> 00:08:18,560
Speaker 1: little town store, um based on these prizes and some

136
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 1: cash prizes, saying like half of all tickets were going

137
00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,040
Speaker 1: to be winners and you might win a bottle or

138
00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 1: you might win like a tin muffin pan, but you

139
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 1: could also win this cash. And so these things that

140
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,840
Speaker 1: had just been sitting on these shelves forever were suddenly

141
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,480
Speaker 1: turned into something valuable thanks to his marketing expertise. And

142
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,560
Speaker 1: this is while he's still a teenager. Yeah, it's we've

143
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,559
Speaker 1: covered this and something before that. Lotteries were a thing

144
00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: back then that someone could just cook up, you know,

145
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 1: Like it's not like the lotteries we have today, like

146
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:52,079
Speaker 1: be sanctioned, uh, sanctioned ways of stealing people's money, right,

147
00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 1: But back then, you could just cook up a lottery

148
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:55,680
Speaker 1: in a small town and be like, you know what

149
00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,719
Speaker 1: I've got. Uh. It was almost like a Ponzi thing,

150
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 1: like I can raise money, give away some of that

151
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 1: money and prizes, and then keep the rest, right. I

152
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,720
Speaker 1: think that was in our lotteries episode. Oh really yeah, Okay, Well,

153
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,480
Speaker 1: in order to do that, though, you have to be

154
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,360
Speaker 1: a natural born salesperson, which is what he was. You

155
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,600
Speaker 1: really do And like lottery has been played like a

156
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,600
Speaker 1: theme throughout his early career, like that's how he ended

157
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 1: up making his initial I don't know if fortune is

158
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: the right word, but that's how he staked himself and

159
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,920
Speaker 1: his family was through lotteries and working in stores and

160
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 1: then eventually owning stores like general stores, grocery stores, that

161
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,360
Speaker 1: kind of thing. But the lotteries are where he made

162
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,080
Speaker 1: his money, and he actually figured out that you could

163
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,880
Speaker 1: make more money with less work than having to go

164
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,520
Speaker 1: to the trouble of setting up a lottery. Like you said,

165
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,800
Speaker 1: anybody could just set up a lottery, um by taking

166
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,079
Speaker 1: tickets from somebody else's lottery and selling them further out

167
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,240
Speaker 1: at an increased price. But then he figured out one

168
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:57,679
Speaker 1: more thing, Chuck, You didn't even have to go out

169
00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,080
Speaker 1: and sell these things yourself. You could hire other are

170
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,600
Speaker 1: people to sell them even further out. All you had

171
00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 1: to do was give them the tickets and collect the

172
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 1: money that they brought you. So he ended up making

173
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:11,880
Speaker 1: money by basically expanding other people's lotteries for a while,

174
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,320
Speaker 1: that's right. And in the middle of this, and he

175
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:16,280
Speaker 1: had moved to Brooklyn at this point, he's kind of

176
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 1: kind of hopping all over the place there in the northeast.

177
00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,320
Speaker 1: But uh and and to be fair, we're hopping kind

178
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:27,439
Speaker 1: of all over his early life right now. Yeah, chronologically. Yeah. Yeah.

179
00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,160
Speaker 1: So in this time period he met um who would

180
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: become his wife, a woman named Charity Hallett, who he

181
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 1: described in his autobiography as a fair, rosy cheeked buxom girl,

182
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 1: beautiful white teeth. Did I mention she had big boobs,

183
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:49,040
Speaker 1: but those teeth, man. Uh. So they would get married

184
00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:53,440
Speaker 1: and I think they had four daughters, Um. But during

185
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,760
Speaker 1: all this time he he did he had a little

186
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 1: Josh Clark in him, because how do you mean, Well,

187
00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,080
Speaker 1: he was writing letters to local papers that weren't getting published,

188
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:05,640
Speaker 1: so he said, you know what, I'm gonna start my

189
00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: own paper. Yeah, where he clarked himself a paper I'll

190
00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 1: see you all in hell media. Yeah, and much like yourself,

191
00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 1: you started your own paper, which was kind of cool. Sure,

192
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean like, if people won't print your crank ideas,

193
00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,040
Speaker 1: go start your own paper. It's like if you want

194
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 1: to get your manifesto out there and either either yeah,

195
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: either become un obomb or esque, which we don't recommend,

196
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,320
Speaker 1: or start your own paper. That's right. And his was

197
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 1: called Harold of Freedom, which is terrible. And this is

198
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,719
Speaker 1: where it gets a little weird because he he kind

199
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,400
Speaker 1: of went after people. Um was eventually hit with a

200
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,080
Speaker 1: libel suit and spent sixty days in jail. But that

201
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,240
Speaker 1: sold a lot of papers, and he was also hailed

202
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,720
Speaker 1: as a hero because apparently he was legitimately exposing corruption.

203
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,400
Speaker 1: So to me, Chuck, that one really stood out, um,

204
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 1: because it shows just how huge this guy's life still

205
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,880
Speaker 1: where he is. That that even if you make a

206
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,160
Speaker 1: movie out of it all. The best you can hope

207
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,439
Speaker 1: for is to pick like five or six or ten

208
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,240
Speaker 1: different things and try to find a thread throughout him. Right,

209
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,800
Speaker 1: whether that's an accurate portrayal or not, it can't possibly be,

210
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: because this guy's life was just so enormous and he

211
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,400
Speaker 1: did so many things, and he was such an outsize

212
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,559
Speaker 1: character that a lot of times you either vilify him

213
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,400
Speaker 1: or glorify him, and it was much more a combination

214
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 1: of both of those things. And I think that example

215
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,200
Speaker 1: really says it all. Like he had his his notions,

216
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 1: and he started his own paper and ended up going

217
00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: to jail and subscription boosted, so he ended up making

218
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 1: money from it. But at the same time, he was

219
00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,680
Speaker 1: legitimately trying to call out corruption in this town that

220
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: he cared about. So his character was much more complex

221
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: than than you get just from just about any source

222
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: unless you read biographies about him. Agreed. Um, So finally

223
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 1: he says, or I'm sorry, Connecticut said no more lotteries

224
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,679
Speaker 1: in Connecticut. So he's like, all right, what am I

225
00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 1: doing here? Even if I can't do this little scam?

226
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 1: He's like, I love this time, but not that much.

227
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,839
Speaker 1: So in eighteen thirty four, he left the paper, shut

228
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,319
Speaker 1: that down, moved his family to New York City, and uh,

229
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 1: should we take a break? Perfect ail, Right, we're in

230
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,400
Speaker 1: New York City and we'll be back right after this.

231
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,000
Speaker 1: If you want to know then you're in luck. Just

232
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:48,439
Speaker 1: listen up to chuck shoo. Shoot, I got a falafel?

233
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,839
Speaker 1: Is it good? It's pretty good? Is it from the

234
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: Hallau guys? Of course? Man? Who else you going to

235
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 1: get a falafel from? That's good stuff? Yeah? Uh so, man,

236
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,760
Speaker 1: this guy really just reading through this thing. He did

237
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:08,360
Speaker 1: so many jobs, right, he was a factotem dozens and

238
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 1: dozens of jobs through his lifetime. Yeah, and I'm glad

239
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,600
Speaker 1: he didn't just stick to clerking, right, or even lottery.

240
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:21,160
Speaker 1: He had this thing like something about show business attracted

241
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 1: this guy. I don't know what it was. Maybe nobody

242
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,000
Speaker 1: but him knows what it was. Maybe he doesn't even

243
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: know what it was. But he was attracted to the

244
00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:35,400
Speaker 1: idea of like wowing and amusing and amazing crowds. And

245
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,440
Speaker 1: he he did that pretty early on. I think he

246
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:45,120
Speaker 1: was twenty five when he got into exhibiting a human

247
00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 1: being who he purchased and owned for a while, which

248
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: by the way does not show up in the Greatest Showman. Right,

249
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,680
Speaker 1: And this is after in New York he started a

250
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,600
Speaker 1: boarding house for a while and co owned a grocery

251
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 1: store for a while, right, And so like his life

252
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 1: is full of him just trying to do these kind

253
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 1: of regular things and then being like, Nope, I gotta

254
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 1: go buy a lady and put her on display. Right,

255
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,640
Speaker 1: And this is after Chuck. By the way, he had

256
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,120
Speaker 1: come down with smallpox for a while. Oh did we

257
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 1: miss a small box. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like,

258
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 1: this guy had a huge life. But let's get a

259
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,240
Speaker 1: Joyce Heath right, because she is a very controversial part

260
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:29,080
Speaker 1: of um P. T. Barnum's life. She was the first,

261
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,000
Speaker 1: his first foray in the show business. And there's no

262
00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: other way to put it. Like he purchased her. She

263
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 1: was a slave and elderly slave, um who he purchased

264
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 1: from another promoter who had been touting her as General

265
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: George Washington's nursemaid from when George Washington was a child.

266
00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:53,080
Speaker 1: This is eighteen thirty five, right, she was supposedly a

267
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 1: hundred and sixty one years old. Yeah, so he negotiates

268
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,440
Speaker 1: a price. He went, he went and sour, and she

269
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,480
Speaker 1: was blind, she had no teeth, she was partially paralyzed,

270
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,480
Speaker 1: but she could talk and tell her story. Yeah, she

271
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,040
Speaker 1: told stories about young George as a boy. And and

272
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 1: to be fair, she she was already being exploited. It's

273
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: not like he which is not great, but it's not

274
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: like Barnum introduced this into her life. No, he just

275
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: purchased her and took it over, took over the exploitation

276
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: for for a thousand dollars, and he toured with her

277
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 1: until she died. Um not that long later, just like

278
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: a year later, not even inty six. He made a

279
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,280
Speaker 1: lot of dough Um and it was it was sort

280
00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 1: of a watershed moment for him where I think he

281
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 1: was like, wait a minute, I've realized that I can

282
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 1: get people um in a room by cooking up these

283
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,800
Speaker 1: stories and and getting things in the newspaper and printing

284
00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 1: these posters. Uh. And even if, like if if business

285
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 1: was down, he would do these crazy things like one

286
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 1: of them when business was down, appearing with Heth. At

287
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,679
Speaker 1: one point he accused her of being a robot what

288
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,200
Speaker 1: they called at the time an automaton in an anonymous

289
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,919
Speaker 1: letter to the editor in a newspaper. Yeah, a robot

290
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 1: made of whalebone rubber in springs. So everyone was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

291
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,399
Speaker 1: Not only is she George Washington's nurse maid, but she's

292
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,960
Speaker 1: really a robot. Right. What that did was it got

293
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: the people who had been avoiding going to see her,

294
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 1: because even at the time, people were like, this is

295
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,159
Speaker 1: pure exploitation. This woman is being exhibited like a giraffe

296
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,120
Speaker 1: would be or something like that. She's an old lady's

297
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,919
Speaker 1: working or ten to twelve hours a day. Some people

298
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,399
Speaker 1: think that he worked her to death literally, um. And

299
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,959
Speaker 1: so there was part of the press that was saying

300
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 1: and reporting on this with with great distaste. So there's

301
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 1: a segment of American society who would not be caught

302
00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,159
Speaker 1: dead seeing George Washington's a hundred and sixty year old

303
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 1: nurse maide, but they would conceivably go see an autonomouton

304
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,040
Speaker 1: if that's really what was going on. So he managed

305
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:15,480
Speaker 1: to dupe the very people who were critical of this

306
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: exploitation that he was undertaking. He got everybody in that one. Well, yeah,

307
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 1: and it gets even worse. Um. Finally, when she passed away,

308
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,000
Speaker 1: he actually sold tickets to a public autopsy in a

309
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,719
Speaker 1: saloon so people could come look at this poor woman's insides.

310
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,440
Speaker 1: And this is where it was finally revealed. Doctor said

311
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 1: she's maybe like eight eight one years old at most, right,

312
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: And this was so so Jane um McGrath kind of

313
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,639
Speaker 1: walks past, like what a controversy this was. Like this

314
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,159
Speaker 1: guy had been like very much touting that she was

315
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,439
Speaker 1: the nurse Maide, like he supposedly had the bill of

316
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 1: sale to George Washington's father for her. So like he

317
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,720
Speaker 1: was saying, like, this is legitimately hundred and six year

318
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: old woman, so in this autopsy that he charged for.

319
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: When when it was exposed that she was actually half

320
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,879
Speaker 1: that age, um, it was there was a bit of

321
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 1: disgrace there and he had to learn to roll with

322
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,680
Speaker 1: the punches. And it was about this time that that

323
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: he basically said to himself, you can you can take

324
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,879
Speaker 1: this as a lesson and go on the straight and narrow,

325
00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 1: maybe get back into clerking, or you can double maybe

326
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 1: triple and quadruple down on this and and see where

327
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 1: that goes. And he chose the ladder of the two

328
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: for sure, that's right. He sure did. The next thing

329
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,679
Speaker 1: that he did the next person that he kind of

330
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,600
Speaker 1: took under his wing. Was his greasy greasy wing? Was

331
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:52,080
Speaker 1: someone called signore senior? Is that senior? Yeah? Was it

332
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: spelled that way? Uh? That is the Italian spelling of senor.

333
00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 1: Oh well, let me turn it on then, s an

334
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:07,159
Speaker 1: Daniel Antonio. Antonio had an extra bit in there. Senor

335
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: Antonio is another way to say, well, sure, if you're

336
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 1: a dullard, I'm a bit of a dullard. Chuck. I

337
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: think you know that after ten years, So this guy,

338
00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 1: we're really milking that tenure thing. Huh. I've got my

339
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: s y s k ten your army short. I see that.

340
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 1: It's very nice, thank you. I've been working on my bucksomeness.

341
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 1: You're quite bucksom. So. Senor Antonio was a balancer. He's

342
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,879
Speaker 1: he's one of these guys like a plate spinner, walked

343
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 1: on stilts, juggles. Um. He could throw things in the

344
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 1: air and catch them very fast. Yeah, he's like a hippie.

345
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. He would be on tour with he'd had

346
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,240
Speaker 1: those little sticks what are those called, devil sticks? Devil

347
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: sticks or a hackey sack, any of those things. You

348
00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 1: pull a hackey stack out of his ear at any moment.

349
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,600
Speaker 1: So this guy, he said, all right, you need to

350
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: be my newest client. I will make you famous. Change

351
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: your your stage name from Senior Antonio to Senor Viva

352
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,480
Speaker 1: La because that's a little more I don't know, exciting.

353
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: I guess Senor Antonio. Yeah, it's a lateral move. Uh.

354
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,200
Speaker 1: Here's the thing, though, is there were a lot of

355
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 1: dudes out there spinning plates. So he it wasn't like

356
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 1: he was so unique, but uh, Barnum thought, you know what,

357
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: I think you're better than the rest. So here's what

358
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: I'll do. And again this is just another example of

359
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 1: how how good he was at promotion. He said, I'll

360
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,920
Speaker 1: do a free performance for a theater. Uh, and I'll

361
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 1: even be your assistant on stage. And people came, and

362
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: so the theater said, all right, I guess if people

363
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 1: come for free, they'll pay. I think I think what

364
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 1: he was saying was he Yeah, I think that's exactly.

365
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 1: I think you're right. He just wild them enough. I

366
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: think that's that's the impression I have. Yeah. But even still,

367
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: despite Vivala being genuinely good, he was I think head

368
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 1: and shoulders above most of his contemporary spinners. Yeah, I

369
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: think people saw in the press. Oh there's a really

370
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: good plate spinner. We saw a plate spinner at you know,

371
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: the at the office last week. So I'm not gonna

372
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: go anywhere to see another plate spinner. I'm certainly not

373
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 1: gonna pay. So Barnum had a pretty good idea, but

374
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: it actually came out of um an uncomfortable situation that

375
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: fell into his lap with Robert's another plate spinner. Yeah,

376
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: so this is a rival plate spinner who apparently would

377
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: go to prove West Coast. Yeah, he was. He was

378
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: a crip and he would go to uh Vivalo's performances

379
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 1: and heckle him. I guess you call that plate spinning boo,

380
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,159
Speaker 1: terrible plate spinning stuff like that. And so uh p T.

381
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: Barnum cooked up a thing where he was like, all right,

382
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 1: I'll of for one thousand American dollars to anyone who

383
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 1: can perform Vivalo's act in public. Roberts accepted. But here's

384
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 1: what really happened. As he got together with Roberts and

385
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 1: they all three hatched a plan to do these kind

386
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: of staged competitions, right, So they promoted in the spinning

387
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 1: competitions East Coast, West Coast plate spinning rivalry is going

388
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 1: on right now. Everybody's gonna come see this, and everybody did.

389
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: And in that first performance, Roberts as was staged, conceded

390
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 1: he could not replicate Vivala's act. It was too good.

391
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,879
Speaker 1: But I would love to see Vivola replicate my act.

392
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: And I challenge you, Senor Vivola, to replicate my act

393
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: tomorrow night at this same theater. And they kept going

394
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: back and forth like that, Um, with this staged rivalry

395
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: that they they they made some cash off of thanks

396
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,240
Speaker 1: to Barnum's ingenuity. They did. Finally, in eighteen thirty six,

397
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 1: the circus comes into the picture. He joined a traveling circus.

398
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 1: Barnum did as a ticket seller, which I take it

399
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: to mean he doesn't sit in a booth and sell tickets,

400
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: but he goes around town selling tickets. Yeah, like chambers

401
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: of commerce or something like that. Yeah. And of course

402
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 1: he got a little uh commission off this thing, so

403
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: he was making some dough. Favola joined the same circus

404
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: as a performer. Of course they were attached at the

405
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: hip at that point. That was Chang and Ang bunker

406
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: you're thinking of. That's a dad joke. It totally um,

407
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: and this one I thought was a little bit weird.

408
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 1: Apparently the circus proprietor, a guy named Turner, was into

409
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: practical jokes, and not very good ones. Because this practical

410
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 1: joke was he convinced the crowd that Barnum was the

411
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: reverend from Avery who had been acquitted of murder. But

412
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 1: everyone thought that this guy had committed murder, and back

413
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: then no one knew anyone looked like So he said,

414
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 1: this guy is from Avery, and he almost got lynched. Apparently, yeah,

415
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: like from Avery's name was not very well liked in

416
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: the area. He was at the very least he, through

417
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: having an adulterous affair with a young woman, had induced

418
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: her to kill herself, or at worst, had murdered her

419
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: to prevent her from having his illegitimate child. But he's

420
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: gonna quit it, right, Andy's a reverend, did we mentioned Um?

421
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: So yeah, the crowd, like, according to Barnum, almost killed him.

422
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: That's a real funny joke, I know. But then later on,

423
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: Jane says that Um that Barnum got got even with

424
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: him with his own practical joke. I could find nothing anywhere,

425
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 1: including in Barnum's autobiography that that mentions that I think

426
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: he covered his toilet and seran rep cruads. That's so nasty.

427
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: Uh No, No, he gave him an upper decker grows.

428
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: That's even worse. So apparently these guys got into business

429
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: together and it became a thing where people would go

430
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: see the circus, where the two ringmasters would would kind

431
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: of go at each other with these practical jokes, right,

432
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: that became a thing. So so there's a transition going on,

433
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: another transition now he is he started out store clerking,

434
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: lottery ng when got into show business where it's like

435
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: basically a Colonel Tom two different performers, and then now

436
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: he's transitioning into the circus. But by now he's been

437
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: like married to the road about as much as he's

438
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: been married to Charity as as well. And from all accounts,

439
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: um like he was very much in love with her

440
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: and they were like he was faithful and they were

441
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 1: they were a real couple. But he was on the

442
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 1: road a lot. There's just no if and or butts

443
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: about it. He was out there on the road quite

444
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: a bit. So transitioning to a circus was basically the

445
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: same thing. It was just a little bigger of an outfit,

446
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: so it was like a step up. But you got

447
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: to also keep in mind here that he's spending a

448
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: lot of time on the road at a time when

449
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: travel was really long and really tough. That's right, And

450
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: so he eventually decides working for when else's circus is

451
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: for the birds, I'm gonna start my own. You buy

452
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: some horse and wagons. I'm gonna get a clown. You

453
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: gotta have a clown. Uh. I think he still had

454
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: Vivala at the time. Yeah, and started Barnum's Grand Scientific

455
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: and Musical Theater toward all over the place for a

456
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: little while, and then they disbanded. Right, Nothing never seemed

457
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 1: to work out for very long. No, I think that

458
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: Um he got fed up and says with some of

459
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 1: the rivalries with other showmen, Um that they, you know,

460
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: you would build your whole circus around like an act,

461
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, the act would be like,

462
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: I'm I'm sick of this, I'm sick of being on

463
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: the road. I'll see you later, and all of a

464
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: sudden your circus would fall apart. I think they were

465
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: kind of tenuous outfits, right, but he he The thing

466
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: about Barnum was like something about this called to him

467
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: like he would when his circus collapsed and he was

468
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,160
Speaker 1: out in the middle of the country on the road

469
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: and he had to go back home. The first thing

470
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: you would do is start figuring out his next circus

471
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: or his next act, or whatever it was. He would

472
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: go back out again. He he was into fact indefatigable

473
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: and into fatiguablele in that sense. Uh. Yeah, so I

474
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: mean we'll quickly speed through the next couple of years.

475
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: He did a little steamboat circus for a little while

476
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: along the Mississippi River. Um, that didn't come along. He

477
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: tried to do a respectable business again. Uh, went into

478
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: business with a guy who manufactured grease paste and cologne.

479
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: That did all right for a little while, but then

480
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: that failed. Uh. And then this whole time, he still

481
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: feels that pool to the tent. Right. He sold illustrated

482
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: bibles for a little while. Finally, here's the thing he

483
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: wanted stability, Like being out on the road was tough,

484
00:28:54,560 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 1: as Steve Perry, right, but he wanted this this to

485
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: be tied to show business in some way. Finally, one day,

486
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:10,959
Speaker 1: and I think the eighteen forty one, he um he

487
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: had another big break or another big vision. There was

488
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: a there was a place in New York museum and

489
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: what you would call today a museum that was up

490
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: for sale in I'm not sure where it was, but

491
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: it was in New York, right, and it was called

492
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: Scudder's American Museum. And Barnum heard that um Scudder wanted

493
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: to get out and was putting the whole collection up

494
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: for fifteen grand, which is a substantial amount of money

495
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: and definitely more money than than Barnum had. But he said,

496
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: that's it right there. I can have a permanent place

497
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: where people come to me, and I can be home

498
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 1: with my wife and daughters, but I can still have

499
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: this daily interaction with show business. I gotta buy that

500
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: thing well, and it will also accomplish this is um.

501
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I can still have my freak show performers. But because

502
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: it's a museum, somehow it has a little bit more

503
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: respectability because apparently at the time, theaters weren't like they

504
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: are today. It wasn't like we're going to the theater.

505
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: Theaters could be a little bit like a a second

506
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: tier entertainment, right. It was like hoi POLOI tawdry. Crowds

507
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: went to the theater that was associated with like burlesque

508
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: or something like that, or even like um human oodities

509
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: exhibition stuff like that that was theater stuff. A museum

510
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: like Scudder's, like respectable people could go there. So what

511
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: Barnum did was he he bought a museum and then

512
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: dragged it down into the mud, right And this this

513
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: whole the way he financed the museum, I didn't fully understand,

514
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: to be honest. Do you want me to explain it

515
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: if you want, or we could just say he ended

516
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: up with the museum in eighteen forty one through a

517
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: lot of work, and I think that's that's fair enough

518
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: because it is a little bit like you know, Robin

519
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: Peter to pay Paul. It wasn't just a straight up purchase.

520
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: Let's just say that, right. But so one thing that

521
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: you can say about this museum, which he renamed Barnum's

522
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: American Museum, it was a big success. And one of

523
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: the reasons it was a big success was because he

524
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: was he tirelessly worked at finding new and interesting ways

525
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: to market the thing, right um, and by I'm not

526
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 1: sure exactly when, but by a very short time after

527
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: he opened it, I think that same year, in one

528
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: um he he was charged. He charged twenty five cents

529
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: a person for admission. He had something like four thousand

530
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: visitors a day. And he took this thing, like I

531
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: say that he dragged the word museum down in the mud.

532
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: He definitely added and expanded to the definition of museum.

533
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: And then he also had this lecture hall where he

534
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: had like performances that you would see like in a

535
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: circus or something like that. And he turned this place

536
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: into an emporium just something huge in a an enormous spectacle.

537
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: And something like eight hundred and fifty thousand pieces were

538
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: on display in his museum. So you definitely got your

539
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: quarters worth for sure. Yeah, and those are just the

540
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: pieces he also, I mean as far as the circus element,

541
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: he had everything covered. He had dancers, musicians, plate spinners, ventriloquists.

542
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: Well you gotta have the plate spin He had little people,

543
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: he had big people. He had ladies with beards, and

544
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: robots and puppets and animals. He had drafts and grizzly bears.

545
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: Like he really had everything humming on all cylinders at

546
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, he really did um. And again there

547
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: was still there was that whole thread of like you know,

548
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: there are people being exploited. There were people who were

549
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: complicit in that. There were people who were Um. Anyone

550
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: who came to the museum was gawking at, you know,

551
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: the weirdness of these other people or whatever, which again

552
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: today is very odd to us, but at the time

553
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: um was still odd. Like that's the thing that I

554
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: think it's lost on people. Like there were sideshows and

555
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,479
Speaker 1: things like that, but Barnum took it to an extraordinary

556
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 1: degree and really ran with it and became extremely rich

557
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: as a result. Actually, should we take a break. I'm

558
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: ready to all right, the museum's coming along. We're gonna

559
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: take a break. We'll be back right after this. If

560
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: you want to know you're in luck, just to chuck, Okay,

561
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: we're back. Yeah. So we mentioned earlier about the humbug

562
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: Um this kind of hucksterism in his biography there or autobiography,

563
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,720
Speaker 1: which was rewritten by himself, by the way, after people

564
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: read the first version and said, what a jerk. Yeah. Yeah,

565
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: he was like just openly boastful and braggart about how

566
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 1: much he exploited people and how much he duped the

567
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: American public. He turned it down a little bit in

568
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: this in the revision, but he he did talk a

569
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: little bit about being slightly embarrassed about kind of how

570
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:32,439
Speaker 1: shameless he was. But then again in the next line

571
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: he would say, but you know what, this is how

572
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 1: everyone is in my business. I'm just better at it

573
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: than them. Basically, yeah, he said, Um, he said, oh,

574
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: there's a great quote. I can't find it anywhere though

575
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: where Basically if he if he oh, here it is um.

576
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: If his advertising was quote more audacious than his competitors,

577
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: it was not because I had less scrupled than they,

578
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 1: but more energy, far more ingenuity, and better foundation for

579
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: such promises. He thought a lot of himself. He definitely did.

580
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: But he also worked pretty hard at it, for sure.

581
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: And I think if you, if you compared apples to

582
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: apples at the time, Barnum's jam was way better than

583
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: anybody else's jam. Yeah, for sure. So uh. He had

584
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: three really big successes in a row with his with

585
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: his museum here. The first one was called the Fiji

586
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: Mermaid f E j E and um and this was

587
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: a big, big deal. He got a man named Levi

588
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: Lyman or Levy Lyman. He was an old colleague of his,

589
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: and he said, here's what I'll do. You're gonna you

590
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 1: are now, Dr J. Griffin. You're a naturalist for the

591
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: British Lyceum of Natural History, which was not a real place,

592
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: and you were the you're an ownership of what we'll

593
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 1: call the Fiji mermaid, which was a uh what do

594
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: we call it in a taxidermy? Rogue taxidermy. Yeah, it

595
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 1: was rogue taxidermy. It totally was. It was like a jackalope,

596
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: except what was it. It was a head of a

597
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: baboon torso and orange and tang and a fish tail

598
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 1: just for good measure. Yeah, And as far back as

599
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: they can tell, it was probably made by a Japanese

600
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: sailor in the eighteen twenties and it passed through a

601
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: few hands before Barnum finally leased it and put it

602
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 1: on display. I wonder where that thing is now. I looked.

603
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: I I don't know there are other Fiji mermaids out there.

604
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: There was it was like kind of a thread of

605
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: rogue taxidermy in the mid nineteenth century, and I think

606
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,879
Speaker 1: Harvard has went on display. But I looked to find

607
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: out where P. T. Barnum's is, and um, I can't find.

608
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: It's probably like on Richard Branson's headboard or something. It

609
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,479
Speaker 1: may have actually burned up in one of the many

610
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: fires that plagued PiZZ Barnum's life. Things are going to

611
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: get fiery here in this last bit too. Yeah well, ay, well,

612
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 1: let's get back to the Fiji mermaid though. Okay, so

613
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 1: Dr J. Griffin is touring, touring with this supposedly touring

614
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: with this mermaid, right sure, and Barnum, but the guy's

615
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: actually not out there touring. Barnum basically creates out a

616
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 1: whole cloth tour of this mermaid, writes letters about how

617
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: great this thing is uh in different people's names, and

618
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: then mails them two friends that live around the country

619
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,839
Speaker 1: and asks them to mail those letters in to two

620
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: newspapers in New York, talking about how this thing has

621
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,239
Speaker 1: to be seen to be believed. Yeah, so people came

622
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,879
Speaker 1: far and wide to see this piece of taxidermy. Yeah.

623
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: And by the way, this whole Jay Griffin thing, like

624
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: this guy was posing as him. He was giving public

625
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:49,799
Speaker 1: lectures made up as a naturalist, British naturalist, and he

626
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: was an American promoter. He had nothing to do. He

627
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: was just making all this stuff up. But he would

628
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: give like public lectures on it, like the audacity. It's amazing.

629
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: Uh So the second big victory was when he met

630
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: up with a four year old named Charles Stratton. Uh

631
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: he was a little person, his cousin actually, and he

632
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: stopped growing when he was two ft tall and he

633
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: changed his name, rebranded him as General Tom Thumb and

634
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: that name probably rings a bell. They became very famous together.

635
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: He said, he was eleven years old, and they were

636
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: a a media and ticket selling sensation. Yeah. They would

637
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,280
Speaker 1: be like invited in to meet like royalty whatever country

638
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: they toured. Um, he was a huge hit at the museum.

639
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: It was like a big deal for both barnol Man

640
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: and Charles Stratton. The sensation, that's the best way to

641
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 1: put it. In The final big victory of of the

642
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: trifecta when he was in Europe with UM with Stratton,

643
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: he heard of Jenny Lynn. He was a Swedish opera

644
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: singer and this was the kind of thing where he

645
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, she doesn't have a beard.

646
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: She's all she is as a talented singer. But she's

647
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: amazing and this would really legitimize me if I did

648
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: like a straight up act for a change. So even

649
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 1: though she's big over here, they don't know about her

650
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,279
Speaker 1: in America and she could blow up there. So I'm

651
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: gonna offer her a thousand dollars per performance, which was

652
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: a ton of money and a big risk, but he

653
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 1: made about a half a million dollars with her or more.

654
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 1: We branded the Swedish Nightingale by trotting her around the

655
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: United States. And uh, she was like beyond a sensation

656
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: in the United States. Yeah, that was another thing too.

657
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: I mean, like she was pretty big in Europe, but

658
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't think she was well known, if known at all,

659
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: in America. But by the time she showed up for

660
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 1: the tour starting in eighteen fifty, he had managed to get,

661
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: like you said, just turned her into a national sensation.

662
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: Like people had like beat a beatlemania for this lady. Um.

663
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: This article says that she was not a very nice person.

664
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: I didn't see that anywhere else, and I actually saw that.

665
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: So after the contract between her and Barnum was up

666
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,279
Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty one, she continued to tour America with

667
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: like an actual orchestra, I believe um. And she made

668
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars in eighteen fifties money Um from

669
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,799
Speaker 1: this whole American tour and donated every single penny of

670
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: it to Sweden's public school system, which burgeoning at the time. Yeah,

671
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: so I don't know what Jane was talking about, but

672
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: I think she just kind of didn't find America very cultured,

673
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: is what I get. But apparently Jane didn't like that

674
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 1: America probably wasn't very cultured, right, But I thought that

675
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: was pretty neat man. She took all that money and

676
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: donated it to the public school system in Sweden. That's crazy.

677
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, so, so Barnum was not legitimized thanks to that.

678
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 1: I think it actually didn't go all that well. But

679
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,479
Speaker 1: he did enrich himself thoroughly through Jenny Lynn, for sure,

680
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: that's right. But he go broke again because he's P. T.

681
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: Barnum and that's what he does. On the eighteen fifties,

682
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: he bought up a lot of land near Bridgeport, Connecticut,

683
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: because he wanted to make east Bridgeport. That happened in place. Uh.

684
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 1: He invested in a in the Jerome Clock Company wanted

685
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: to relocate it to east Bridgeport. It was not a

686
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: smart thing to do. The company went bankrupt and all

687
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: of a sudden he was broke again, and this is

688
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: fire number one. He moves out of his mansion because

689
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: he's broke, and then when after he had moved out,

690
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: the mansion burned down. Right, But if he had to

691
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: move out, you would think that he had relinquished ownership.

692
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: So why does it matter as far as his life goes,

693
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: unless he had a bunch of money stuffed into the

694
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: insulation or something. I don't know, making bad thing going on.

695
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: It might have just been a footnote or something, or

696
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: he maybe maybe he did no I guess if he

697
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: had moved out then I didn't known it. It's I

698
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: just thought that was a little weird. Yeah, so he Um,

699
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: he was in debt like big time, like broke bankrupt,

700
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 1: in debt um because of this terrible clock company thing,

701
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 1: which you should always take as a reason to never

702
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: put all of your eggs in one basket, which I

703
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: guess is what he did. But he managed to um

704
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: emerge from debt after I think five years UM, and

705
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: he ended up during this time, he pawned his museum,

706
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: but he also put the name of the museum in

707
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: his wife's name, who was not bankrupt, and so they

708
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 1: were able to make some income off of the lease

709
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: for the museum, and then when he managed to buy

710
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: the museum back after five years, he just went like

711
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: right back to it, like like like he didn't miss

712
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 1: a beat. Yeah, I mean this this tenure period from

713
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: eighteen fifty eighteen sixty he went broke. He did the

714
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: smart thing, like he said, with his wife. He started

715
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,240
Speaker 1: giving lectures about making money. He went on tour again

716
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 1: with Tom Thumb. He got a dead whale. He bought

717
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: a dead whale and said, surely people will pay money

718
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 1: to see this. So he was still doing all this

719
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:14,040
Speaker 1: crazy stuff. Um, he bought a hippopotamus, he bought two

720
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: beluga whales. Like, it's just crazy the things that he

721
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: was doing. Also, Chuck, we have to say that the

722
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: title of the lecture tour the Art of money getting.

723
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: It's not even the art of making money, the art

724
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: of money getting. Yea. So um so the the he's

725
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: his stars starting to rise again at the very least,

726
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 1: his fortunes are reversing from from you know, just doing

727
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: any kind of work he can get his hands on.

728
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: And then all along this way, like Barnum was a

729
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: pretty he was what's known as the jackson Ian Democrat.

730
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: Jack Andrew Jackson was a populist president, and um he

731
00:43:55,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: was Uh I think, didn't we lay? Uh? He was

732
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: the one who was responsible for the Trail of tears. Right,

733
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that was Andrew Jackson. It was remember

734
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: our two part on Trail of Tears. Okay, so he

735
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: was he was um P. T. Barnum was of this

736
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: man's party. He was Jackson supporter. And then the Civil

737
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 1: War breaks out and all of a sudden, Um Barnum

738
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: has this like total conversion. He was not like an

739
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: outright bigoted racist who worked to keep African Americans enslaved,

740
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: worked as a Confederate sympathizer anything like that. He was

741
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: fairly unremarkable and pretty normal, like for example, at his

742
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: at his museum, Um, if you were black, you couldn't

743
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: come in. It was a segregated museum. But that was

744
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,279
Speaker 1: like a lot of businesses at the time. So he

745
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: was a very normal pedestrian person as far as his

746
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: politics go, and and and socially as well. But something

747
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: happened and around the time of the Civil War and

748
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 1: he converted and actually became an abolitionist, huge union supporter,

749
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:11,720
Speaker 1: and um just basically became patriotic and dedicated this idea

750
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: of preserving the Union and abolishing slavery. Yeah, and he

751
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: used that museum as a sort of ground zero for

752
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: his cause. Uh. He had speeches, he had plays that

753
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: sort of endorsed this. He had Southern copper heads that

754
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 1: were protesting outside. They threatened his life. And then he said,

755
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: at this point, you know what, I might as well

756
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: just get into politics, um, legitimately. And in April of

757
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, he actually won an election to the

758
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: Connecticut General Assembly, where he worked really hard to ratify

759
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: the thirteenth Amendment and supported another cause to allow the

760
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 1: rights of black people to vote in Connecticut. Yeah. So

761
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: like he was, he was legitimately dedicated to the cause

762
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: of abolition, which is totally bizarre. Right. And about this time, too,

763
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: is when the revisions to his autobiography are starting to

764
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: get much more contrite, much less boastful, um, and even

765
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 1: more apologetic. Uh so he he like he something happened

766
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: and he was converted to um the right side of history.

767
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it, you know. Yeah, So

768
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: here's where fire number two comes in. After a few

769
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: months after this election, his museum burned down along with

770
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: the animals in the exhibit, which is super sad is

771
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: the first of like two animal fires. Uh. He opened

772
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: a new museum a couple of months after that. Three

773
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: years later that museum burned down. Didn't want to rebuild

774
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: that one. Uh. And then finally in the eighteen seventies,

775
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: like it took a long long time before he became

776
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: the P. T. Barnum that most people know as the

777
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: big circus guy, right, the greatest show on Earth guy. Yeah,

778
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: he um hooked up with Barnum and Bailey after hooking

779
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,839
Speaker 1: up with a guy named William Cameron or Coup I'm

780
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: not sure which one it is, Um, But he had P. T.

781
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 1: Barnum's Grand Traveling Museum, Menagerie, Caravan and Circus. That was

782
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy one. And then, Um, did you cover the

783
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy two fire. No, there was another fire that

784
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 1: killed circus animals that the winter at the winter Um

785
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 1: uh camp, which is on the site of where Madison

786
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: Square Garden is right now, there's a horrific fire in

787
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: the winter Camp in eighteen seventy two killed a bunch

788
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: of other circuits animals, which this is this is why

789
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: this is one of the reasons why years later Um

790
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 1: Barnum and Bailey's Wrinkling Brothers Circus went away was because

791
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: of animals. Yeah, and he, I mean he was by

792
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: the time this uh fire happened. That the what was

793
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,840
Speaker 1: it called the Hippo Theatron? I think so he uh,

794
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: he was very successful with that circus circus he started

795
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: with Coupe or coup. Uh. They've made about four grand

796
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: in the first year, and it was the very first

797
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: circus to kind of do the traditional thing that we

798
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: all think of is travel by train, acrobats, clowns, exotic animals,

799
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Uh. And that's when it officially was

800
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 1: called the Greatest show on Earth. So the Hippo Theatron,

801
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: such a strange word, burns down and then he's visiting

802
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: his friend in England, uh, John Fish. And this is

803
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: when his wife, Charity passes away. And as Jane put it,

804
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: he was supposedly to grief stricken to return for her funeral,

805
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: But the grief must have subsided quickly because he secretly

806
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: married Fish's daughter at sixty three years old. He married

807
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: twenty two year old Nancy Fish about three and a

808
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: half months later after his wife passed. No word about

809
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: her teeth no no, or her brass eyes. So um,

810
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: they got married secretly fourteen weeks after Charity died, and

811
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: then and when they came to the US, they had

812
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 1: a public wedding nine months after that. So um, yeah,

813
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 1: he married her, and I guess he was with her

814
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: until his death, right, Well, yeah, in eighteen sixty or

815
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, seventy five, he took a break from the circus,

816
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: got back into politics and became the mayor of Bridgeport

817
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: for a little while, not US Bridgeport, though he's talking

818
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: trash about the Bridgeport And apparently he gets a little

819
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: on his high horse now because even though he was

820
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: a drinker, pretty heavy drinker for a while, he quit

821
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: drinking and then campaigned against um like Sunday sales and

822
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: saloons and kind of got a little self righteous, it

823
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,240
Speaker 1: seems like. Yeah. He also sponsored the Comstock Law in Connecticut,

824
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: which banned contraception, which puts a lot of onus onto

825
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 1: the ladies. Um. And it was in place apparently until

826
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five and was a really important word in

827
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: their chuck sponsored like that means you're the person who

828
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: brought it to the General Assembly, not you didn't just

829
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,200
Speaker 1: vote yes on it, Like you're the one who said, everybody, everybody,

830
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,880
Speaker 1: let's ban contraception for a hundred years and it was successful. Actually,

831
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 1: so yeah, he was. He was a weird dude with

832
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: a lot of different weird um thoughts about things and

833
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: that were sometimes very contradictory over time. And then finally,

834
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: ironically here at the very end of this podcast, in

835
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: eighteen eighty he partnered with one James A. Bailey for P. T.

836
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: Barnham's Great London Combined. It's it's a terrible name for

837
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: a circus, worst circus name ever. Then he had the

838
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: word circus in there, and uh, this is when he

839
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,279
Speaker 1: got Jumbo the Elephant, which it was. Jumbo was a

840
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: legendary attraction until eighty five when Jumbo was killed by

841
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: a train and probably caught fire too. And did you

842
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: know we were just in Boston that Toughs University their

843
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,399
Speaker 1: mascot is Jumbo the Elephant. No, I didn't know that. Yeah,

844
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: my buddy Robert explained that to me. And um, apparently

845
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 1: Barnum was one of the early Um what do you

846
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: what do you call the people who give universities a

847
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:24,319
Speaker 1: lot of money? Uh, endowment and donors grand person. Sure,

848
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 1: he was all of that. What is that word? I

849
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. He was all that two

850
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 1: toughs and so Jumbo the elephant became their mascot. And

851
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,719
Speaker 1: I think because it does say in here he he

852
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: displayed Jumbo's preserved hide and skeleton. I think it was,

853
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: or maybe is on display at toughs Um. I'm not

854
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: sure if it still is, but I think at one

855
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: time it was. So wait a minute, this guy also

856
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: gave a substantial amount of money to help found a university.

857
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: I don't know found, but to the university. That's a benefactor.

858
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 1: Is that the word benefactor? Yeah? Maybe the found found it.

859
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure the timeline there. Man, that's that's

860
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: really crazy. He did lot of stuff. So go jumbos, Yeah,

861
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,840
Speaker 1: the fighting jumbos or the passive aggressive jumbos or the

862
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: stomping jumbos. Yeah, that's a pretty kid. So Barnem and

863
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: Bailey weren't together for too long. Initially they parted ways

864
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: but then again joined in seven ultimately finally for the

865
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: Barnum and Bailey circus. Yep, they broke up and then

866
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: they got back together, and then it stayed that way

867
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 1: until two thousand and sixteen, I think, and then the

868
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: circus finally closed down. I went to that thing as

869
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: a kid. I think we talked about that. Sure I

870
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: did too, um and now we will only go to

871
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,399
Speaker 1: the Big Apple Circus, as you know. And I took

872
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,240
Speaker 1: a long break because Emily and I were tired of going,

873
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: and then uh, now we got a kid. My mom

874
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you gotta start going again. You

875
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: have to. So we went this year. How was it. Oh,

876
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,279
Speaker 1: it's okay. You know, I'm not the biggest circus guy.

877
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 1: I've realized. Are you afraid of clowns? No? Not these?

878
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: Are you afraid of acro bat? I could take these clowns.

879
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: Um No. And actually the acrobats at the Big Apple

880
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: Circus or the the what's it called, it's the famous ones.

881
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: The family, Oh, the Flying Zamboni's Yeah, or was it

882
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,920
Speaker 1: Zamboni's not Zamboni's, I don't remember. It's something like that,

883
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: but it's them. It's still still that family. Wow, that's

884
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 1: really that's something. And they you know, they did a

885
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: great job. But at the end of the day, I'm

886
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: just kind of about a third of the way through,

887
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: I'm looking at my watch you know. Oh, I got you.

888
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: I've seen a couple of circus so lates. Those are

889
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:35,839
Speaker 1: the last circus as I saw. Those are okay. But

890
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: we saw the Michael Jackson one in Las Vegas and

891
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: man Alive was good. Yeah, there's a Michael Jackson cirque. Yes, dude.

892
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 1: And I have to tell you, like, I'm not some

893
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: die hard Michael Jackson fan, but you don't have to

894
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: be this to appreciate this. It is amazing, like like

895
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: it's worth going to Vegas to go see, turning around

896
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: and going home. I don't know. There's probably a few

897
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: I bet we hear from some Michael Jackson anti Michael

898
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 1: Jackson fans. Uh. Finally, p T. Barnum has a stroke

899
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 1: during a performance. He has one weird, strange wish at

900
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: the end of his life is to have his obituary

901
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 1: published before he dies. Yeah. I don't know why I

902
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,879
Speaker 1: did that, maybe too, I don't know either. I think

903
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: I don't know, but that's a heck of a way

904
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: to end this podcast. And so maybe he wanted to

905
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 1: feel the public outpouring or something. Uh, it could be that,

906
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: or he wanted to proof read it or something. I

907
00:54:34,120 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: don't know, but if he wanted. If that was what

908
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 1: he was after, why didn't they just um send it

909
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: to him ahead of time to actually published it. Yeah,

910
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: it's weird. Well, we'll find out one day when we

911
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: die and go to heaven and meet P. T. Barnum. Agreed,

912
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: So are you got anything else? Nope, there's probably tons

913
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,719
Speaker 1: more that we missed. And if you know something about

914
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 1: Pete Barnum that we didn't know, let us know. We'll

915
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,439
Speaker 1: just add to this guy's story over time. Okay. Uh.

916
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you want to read this great

917
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: article by Jay McGrath, type im P. T. Barnum in

918
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: the search bar. How stuff works. Since I said search bars,

919
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:19,239
Speaker 1: time for listener mail. All right, I'm gonna call this

920
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: Uni Bomber follow up. Okay. I was into that one,

921
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: The UNI Bomber. Yeah, yeah, that was a good episode.

922
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: That was a good tenth anniversary episode. Milk. Hey, guys,

923
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: congratulation on ten years milk, Milk. I look forward to

924
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: many more listen to Uni Bomber and thought it would

925
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: share something that covers a related, if somewhat different, aspect

926
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: of the story about ten years ago when I was

927
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,240
Speaker 1: still a wee law student taking a legal ethics course.

928
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,799
Speaker 1: One of the situations we discussed was Ted Kazinski and

929
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 1: the ethical dilemma his lawyers faced. Criminal defendants had the

930
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: absolute right to dictate certain aspects of their representation, like

931
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 1: whether or not flee guilty, but there are other aspects

932
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: of the representation that the lawyer controls, the most notable

933
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 1: being trial strategy. While lawyers should always listen to the

934
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,760
Speaker 1: clients overall goals, sometimes as necessary to override a client's

935
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,239
Speaker 1: wishes on how to achieve their goals, but because the

936
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 1: client's desired strategy is either legally incorrect, unethical, or simply

937
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: ill advise, Kazynski's case presented an interesting ethical problem for

938
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,520
Speaker 1: the attorneys because he refused to allow them to pursue

939
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: what they perceived to be his best defense and his

940
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: only hope of avoiding the death penalty, namely claiming he

941
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: was not guilty by reason of mental disease, known as

942
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,719
Speaker 1: the insanity defense. The conflict was that, on one hand,

943
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,239
Speaker 1: his attorneys had a duty to zealously represent him, but

944
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: Kazinski objected so vehemently to the chosen defense. At at

945
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: one point he attempted to go pro say a k

946
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: a represent himself, which would have been an utter disaster. Uh.

947
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: As you noted, he pled guilty, so we'll never know

948
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: what they would have decided to do had he conned

949
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,920
Speaker 1: a trial. But his case is one which most lawyers

950
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 1: thought about or discussed at some point in their careers.

951
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: That is good Fordham Walk go Rams And that is

952
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: from Deb. Thanks Deb, appreciate that. Yeah, I remember what

953
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: kind of saying like this whole thing was. He didn't

954
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: he played guilty because they didn't want to plead insane

955
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: because his ramblings would have been the ramblings of a

956
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: convicted insane mad man. Very interesting. Uh again, thanks Deb.

957
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: We always love hearing from lawyers out there. That whole

958
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: joke about lawyers at the bottom of the sea being

959
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 1: a good start. We have always found it tasteless. So

960
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: get in touch with us. You can via Twitter. I'm

961
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 1: at josh Um Clark and at s y s K podcast,

962
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: and Chuck is at movie Crush, Chuck's on Facebook dot com,

963
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 1: Slash Charles W. Chuck Bryant and slash stuff. You should

964
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: know you can send us and Jerry an email to

965
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast at how Stuff Works dot com and has

966
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,360
Speaker 1: always joined us at our home on the Web Stuff

967
00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com. For more on this and

968
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com.

969
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: Mhm m