1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Flow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and it's summer vacation people 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: who are on break. We thought it's a great opportunity 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,959 Speaker 1: to replay a couple of our favorite episodes on the 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: very serious topic of addiction. Um. The last episode was 7 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: a repeat of the Science of Addiction, and today we're 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: going to repeat the Future of Addiction, where we look 9 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 1: to the future to see in different ways to to 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 1: deal with this crushing problem. Uh So, without further ado, 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: let's dive into the top. This episode is, uh, I'm 12 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: gonna look at the future of addiction. Uh. And we're 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: not talking about just what kind of crazy drugs would 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: have in the future. Now, we're talking about how can 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: we treat addiction in the future. What are some of 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: the cutting edge and emerging techniques and technolog only do 17 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: is that will be at our disposal to deal with 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: the disease of addiction. Yeah, and before we look at 19 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: the future stuff, let's just kind of look at what's 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: going on in the present. The number one driver of 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: aids in the world is used heroin needles, particularly in 22 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: countries where there's no needle exchange programs. So what if 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: you could get rid of the root problem, you could 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: eradicate heroin addiction, or for that matter, really any addiction. Yeah, 25 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: and we're not just talking instantly. Minds tend to turn 26 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: to Africa, and certainly that's one of the areas concerned here, 27 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: but other you know, countries that don't have needle exchange 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: programs include such large, uh populous nations as China and Russia. Yeah, 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: I think that people don't, you know, at least people 30 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 1: outside of the United States don't realize what in the 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: city is problem. This is half a trillion dollars or 32 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,559 Speaker 1: spent worldwide to treat addiction. So here's just one little 33 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: prism of the addiction problem in the US. And estimated 34 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: one point four million Americans are addicted to pain, which 35 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: was the reason for more than four hundred and eighty 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: two thousand emergency department visits in two thousand and eight 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: and is a leading cause of heart attack and stroke 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: among people younger than age thirty five. So the problem here, 39 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: of course is that we have access and if you 40 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: look at you know, sort of where drugs are in 41 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,839 Speaker 1: the time continuum of history here, Um, we have more 42 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: access to drugs than ever before, and more types of drugs, 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: and what emerges here are some highly, highly addictive substances. 44 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm talking about meth, which creates one of the biggest 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: boosts of dopamine in the brain, and prolonged use of 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,679 Speaker 1: this can lead to psychotic like symptoms, talking about strong hallucinations, 47 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: really violent behavior, and studies of the brain patterns of 48 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: some long term matthews have shown that up to fift 49 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: of their dopamine producing cells have been damaged. So if 50 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: you listened um to the other episode on this, then 51 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: you kind of know already that, Um, this is a 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: situation where the person is just getting deeper and deeper 53 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: into the hull because it's not about free will anymore, 54 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: because the parts of your brand, the executive function, have 55 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: been so eroded by drugs that even if you wanted 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: to stop, you might not be able to. Yeah, and 57 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: and and that's certainly the the anti drug messaging that 58 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: I think needs to be focused on more often with 59 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: meth amphetamy. Because I was reading and according to neuro 60 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: psychopharmacologist Carl Hart, there's actually no empirical evidence to support 61 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: the claim that meth amphetamy causes one to become physically unattractive, 62 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 1: which hopefully they've they're calming down on that, but for 63 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: the longest, like like meth mouth, you know, and the 64 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: transformation of the meth addict into some sort of subhuman 65 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: hyena person has been kind of the focus. When certainly 66 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: that's flashy that works on a billboard a little easier, 67 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: but the reality of what's actually changing with the brain 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: that is far scarier than some sort of decal on 69 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: hide ship. I agree. I have seen the ads before 70 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: where there's like this beautiful woman and then she takes 71 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 1: out her false teeth and she takes off her makeup, 72 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you see her meth attic 73 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 1: riddled face, and they are appealing to vanity. But vanity 74 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. When addiction is highly routinized in your brain, um, 75 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: nobody cares anymore what they look like. So if you 76 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: were to instead crack open the brain and show people 77 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: this is how your brain is actually like completely mutating here, 78 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: that might be a far more compelling story to people. 79 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: The next one is another biggie, and that is of 80 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: course heroin derived from opium, and of course this one 81 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: has been wreaking havoc for for years and years. Yeah, 82 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,359 Speaker 1: thirty of first time users will become addicted. In two 83 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: thousand and five, two point four percent of the American 84 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 1: population said they had tried heroin at least once. The 85 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: source of that is Department of Health. And withdrawal symptoms 86 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: are really acute. They arrive just a few hours after 87 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: a dose swears off, and because of this, users have 88 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: a really high chance for relapse. Because we talked about 89 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: this in the last episode. UM, at some point the 90 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,799 Speaker 1: addiction becomes less about chasing the high and more about 91 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: chasing some sort of equilibrium and feeling normal again, which 92 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: can only happen if you get more of the substance 93 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: in your body. All right, And the next big one 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: to hit might come as surprise because it's not crack cocaine. 95 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: It is nicotine. Nicotine is a very addictive substance. But 96 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: we often overlook this why. Um, I think it's because 97 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: it's legalized, right something like of people who ever try 98 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: cigarettes will become nicotine addicts. At some point, you can 99 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: buy it legally at the store, at the gas station 100 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 1: used to. You can get out of a machine. Um, 101 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: someone's liable too, and it's given its legality and an 102 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: overall still social acceptance, um, people are liable to give 103 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: it to you without it being that big of a 104 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: deal as well. So and it still looks cool on TV, right, Yeah, 105 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: and it's not as big of a risk. And this 106 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: is something that David Lyndon, professor of neuroscience at Johns 107 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: Hopkins University, pointed out. He said, you know, hey, if 108 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: you have a bag of heroin, you're not going to 109 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: do a whole bag of heroin. You know you're gonna overdose. 110 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: But if you have a pack of cigarettes and you 111 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: have ten or twenty of those cigarettes throughout the day, 112 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: you get that little ding of dopamine each time. And 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 1: he kind of yeah, he kind of like likened it 114 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: to pav Offs dog, right, so he said that we're 115 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: really good at training or inner dog and sort of 116 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: being like, oh, I need a little pick up right now, 117 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: and you get that little dopamine um pleasure feeling from it. 118 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: But you're not going to necessarily, um render yourself unconscious 119 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: or unable to work or any of those things. But 120 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: still it is an addiction, and it is an addictive behavior. Yeah, 121 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: you hear about people being one or two back a 122 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: day smoker, whereas in the panel they pointed out that 123 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: that even a heavy heroine user is probably not going 124 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: to use more than through times a day. And so 125 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: to go back to what one of the topics were 126 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: discussed in the previous episode, chunking that idea that the 127 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: brain is forming habits give X, then Y and Z 128 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: and uh and then per forming a shortcut kind of 129 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: a hot key for the brain for behavior encoding the 130 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: memory of usage. Uh, you're going to have, what you know, 131 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: twenty times uh or more per day that you're enforcing 132 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: that shortcut as opposed to a maximum three times per 133 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: day with the hairin user. Yeah. And Charles do Hick, 134 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: the author of UM, the Habit Loop, I think I 135 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: totally slaughtered that. But um, he's talked about this and 136 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: written about this at length, and he says his claim 137 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: is that percent of our decisions every day that's just habit. 138 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: We think we're making these decisions, but really we're just 139 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: responding to environmental cues in these well worn neural pathways 140 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: in our brains. Yeah, because, if we've discussed before, habits 141 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: take up energy, if they take a cognitive power, and 142 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: we don't have a limitless amount of that. So we 143 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: handed over to to routine, we end it over to 144 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: habit so that we'll have some juice to handle the 145 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: actual decisions that are coming at and of course that 146 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: the problem with this is that again, your brain, your 147 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: brain secretary, isn't making any sort of like, hey, this 148 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: could be a terrible thing. Don't do this. Um and 149 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: your prefrontal cortex, your executive functions in your brain are 150 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: already sort of um lessened by the addictive behavior. All right, 151 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: The next thing we have here is prescription medication, one 152 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: of the rapidly growing substances of abuse in the US. 153 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: Between nineteen eighty and abuse of prescription drugs increased four 154 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: and it has about the same amount of usage in 155 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: America as cocaine. According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, 156 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: drug overdose was the leading cause of injury death in 157 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, and among people twenty five to 158 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: sixty four years old, drug overdose caused more death than 159 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: motor vehicle traffic crashes. So the National Institute on Drug 160 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: Abuse goes on to say, by the way, and two 161 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: doesn't intend seventy eight percent of the drug overdose depths 162 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: in the US were unintentional seventy eight percent. And I 163 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: think that this is painting a story here about how 164 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: prescription drugs, uh have become so accessible in people are 165 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: mixing them with other drugs or mixing them with alcohol 166 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: to their detriment. Yeah, I mean, it's it's important to 167 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: to to to to to point out, yeah, that prescription 168 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: drugs just because it's prescribed, does not mean it is 169 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: necessarily a safe substance of Any of these are very 170 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: dangerous socis. I mean, any of these are amphetamines. Uh, 171 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: and they're not that different from the illegal variant. And 172 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: certainly methamphetamine itself is memory serves as scheduled to narcotic anyway, 173 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: which means that it consuvably has a medical purpose. Uh. 174 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: And it makes sense to like, which which car is 175 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: going to be faster, the one made in a garage 176 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: or the one made at at a at a factory. Right, 177 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: And what do we have with with drugs? Your street 178 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: drug is often made in a garage, whereas your your 179 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical product, he's made by a billion upon billion dollar industry. 180 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: So it's it's kind of like a supercharged vehicle. Yeah. 181 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: And um, I'm sure that people are aware that there 182 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: are ways that people get their hands on drugs that 183 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: they shouldn't have. They were legal drugs prescribed and I 184 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: won't go into that. I will say that if you 185 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: are interested in learning more abound fist prescription drugs, check 186 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: out the documentary American Addict that goes into detail. It's 187 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: pretty depressing, um, but it's also very eye opening about 188 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: this topic. All Right, we're gonna take a quick break 189 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,599 Speaker 1: and we get back. We're going to talk about the 190 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 1: treatments of addiction. Alright, we're back, So we've we've we 191 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: discussed addiction here. Let's talk about the ways that we 192 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: treat addiction. We have several different approaches that are currently 193 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: in play, and we're looking at some some new methods 194 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: of tackling in the future. Yeah, and before we go 195 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: into that, we should say, hey, by the way, rate 196 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: of relapse is really high for addicts. I think this 197 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: is something most people know. According to the National Institute 198 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: on Drug Abuse, relapse rates for drug addicted patients about 199 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: forty It's similar to relapse and those suffering from diabetes, hypertension, 200 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: and asthma, and drug addictions should be treated like any 201 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 1: other chronic illness with relapse serving as a trigger for 202 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: renewed intervention. So keep this in mind. Um, and we 203 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 1: talked about this, this idea of memory encoding behavior and 204 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: there are being triggers for that. So imagine that you 205 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: have just completed a program, say from heroin abuse, and 206 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: you get out and UM, I think I called them before, 207 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: these neural ghosts, these neural pathways in your brain, the 208 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: sort of cellular scarring that's still there. It's very easy 209 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: to tap into that and have that behavior express itself again. 210 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: A great example of this is Philip Seymour Hoffman, which 211 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: is brought up at the World Science Festival for the 212 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: panel of the Craving Brain. They said, look at this guy. 213 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: He was something like ten years sober from heroin addiction, 214 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: went to a rap party one night, had a beer, 215 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: and then something like I don't know, was it weeks 216 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: or months later, had died from heroin overdose. Yeah, I 217 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: just started him down the path, opened up those pathways 218 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: again in the brain, those those pathways of habit and 219 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 1: behavior in addiction, and uh, and then then that's where 220 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: he ended up. Yeah, So you know, you're not treating 221 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: something that's easily dealt with. Here, right, Just I keep 222 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: coming back to the idea of a cat's cradle, right, 223 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: you know where you take the shoe lace tied together 224 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: and you you string it between your fingers, and it's 225 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: all the different fingers holding the string out to form 226 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: this pattern. And you can't you know, put a point 227 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: at one particular finger and say that is the cause 228 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: of the pattern, that is the cause of the the 229 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: overall design here. And just as there's no over that 230 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: one finger you can pin the whole design on, there's 231 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: no one finger you can remove. There's no one treatment 232 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: plan that's going to to be a magic bullet against 233 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: the problem of addiction. Yeah, because in one sense, um, 234 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter anymore if you have genetic dispositions 235 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: to addiction, if you're in the middle of an addiction, 236 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: because at that point you've got habit taken over, you've 237 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,319 Speaker 1: got the transfer station, there are significant changes to your brain, 238 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: and now you've got you know, memory all wrapped up 239 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: in it. So um. So, yeah, it is a bit 240 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: of a cat's cradle. But the treatments can't really treat 241 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: a cat's cradle. You can pretty much go after individual fingers. Yeah, Yeah, 242 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: there's no unified treatments. So the most widespread medication right 243 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: now is in a antidepressants, because this would address the 244 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: feelings of despair or you know, any sort of pre 245 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: existing condition like depression that may have led to the 246 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: addiction in the first place. So the album with that though, 247 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 1: is that you would have to really pair that with 248 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: behavioral therapy because it's not just enough to say, here's 249 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: a depressant and we have another a number of other 250 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: medications that sort of target individual parts of the chemical 251 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: cocktail involved in addiction. UM. We have, for instance, one 252 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: of the most famous being a methodone which suppresses withdrawal 253 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: symptoms and relieves craving. With the people are recovering from 254 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: from heroin, uh, you know, morphine addiction. UM. You have 255 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: other substance such as now trek zone, which works by 256 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: blocking the effects of heroin and other opiates at the 257 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: receptor sites. UM. You have of course, so when you're 258 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: dealing with nicotine nicotine, you have nicotine replacement therapy where 259 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: essentially you're still getting the nicotine, just not through the cigarette, 260 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: and that's used to help with the with the with 261 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: with the with cravings and whatnot. With alcohol, you have 262 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: now trek zone, which blocks opiate receptors that are involved 263 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: in the reroarting effects of drinking and in the craving 264 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: of alcohol. UM. So you see all these types of 265 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: medication there Again, they're going after sort of a particular 266 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: point in the chain and chain of effect and uh 267 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: and that. But they can't they can't deal with environment. 268 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: They can only deal with with one point in in 269 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: the the chemical reaction, be it in how the brain 270 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: is receiving or how the brain is dealing with withdrawal 271 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,280 Speaker 1: from the substance. And of course that has to have 272 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: to have a behavioral counterpoint counterpoint part in order to succeed. Yeah, 273 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: and in the case of methodone, that itself is highly addictive, 274 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: and it's going to argue that you're just delaying the 275 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: process of rehabilitation. Really, you're just moving the goalpost out. 276 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: So what do we have on the horizon in the future, 277 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: And you've got some really interesting things going on. UM 278 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: one is called optogenetics, and are excuse me optogenics And 279 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: this is basically kind of like UM a light sensitive 280 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: molecule that's beamed into the brain so far of rats, 281 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: So rats that are learning certain habits, the researchers can 282 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: use this optogenetics treatment to basically turn on or off 283 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: neurons in the rats brains and block the behavior and 284 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: block the the ability of that rat to sort of 285 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: remember like, hey, I want to go and do this. Um. 286 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: And what's interesting about this is that the rats change 287 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: their behavior in response to different rewards even when the 288 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: light wasn't present. So after they got the initial zap 289 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: with the light, they still didn't return to the bad 290 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: behavior even when a significant amount of time had passed. 291 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: So obviously this is happening in rats right now, not 292 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: in humans. Um. But it plays into this other idea, 293 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: which is electromagnetic magnetic stimulation. Yeah, this is the form 294 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: that this would likely take in the treatment of of 295 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: of human addicts, and certainly this is where the research 296 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: is headed. Um And and in this we would use 297 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: electromagnetic stimulation outside of the scalp I hope no surgery required, uh, 298 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: using transcranial magnetic stimulation on these particular parts of the brain. 299 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: Again to almost not to simplify it and say, it's 300 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: just like turning the switch on and off in terms 301 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:16,600 Speaker 1: of addiction, but but but turning off that that that 302 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: that craving, right, Yeah, and increasing the neural activity in 303 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: the parts of the brain that deal with executive functions 304 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: like willpower. Right, So that's what we've talked about that 305 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: that's such a big part of this. So then you 306 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: have you know, willpower being ramped up and you have 307 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: the addiction behavior being ramped down. What you still have 308 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: to deal with is memory in those triggers. And David Lyndon, 309 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: the neuroscientists and author of the Compass of Pleasure, says 310 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: addiction is a form of learning. When we, for example, 311 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: puff on a cigarette or inject heroin in our arm, 312 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: we are developing associations between the act of puffing or 313 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: the act of injecting all the other sensory information that's 314 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: around the sites and the smells, the people were with, 315 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: the music, we're hearing, the room. We're in a situation 316 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: that surrounds us and the pleasure that is produced as 317 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: the result of puffing on that cigarette or injecting that heroin. Well, 318 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 1: I hate to invoke the title of the movie anymore 319 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: since it's invoked again in every every news article on 320 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: science that deals with erasing the memory. But you kind 321 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: of have to go eternal sunshine of the follower's mind 322 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: on that particular drug memory, because, as we discussed in 323 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: previous episode, the drug memory is has has is really 324 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: firmly encoded. It's not just the memory of taking the drug. 325 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: Is the memory of the environment, the situation of the drug, 326 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: All these things tied up into it. So, yeah, what 327 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: if you could go after that memory, if you could 328 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: blast that memory sort of photon torpedo it, then you 329 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: could conceivably have a leg up on beating the addiction, 330 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 1: or you could you could just like hose it down 331 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: with a chemical, which is essentially what researchers at the 332 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: Script's Research Institute have done. This is from a Fall 333 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen study published online in Biological Yeah Tree. 334 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: For six days, they had rats alternate between one of 335 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: two rooms, and on the odd days they were put 336 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: in a chamber let's call it Chamber A and given meth. 337 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: On even days they were put in Chamber B and 338 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: given a sailine place debo. So a couple of days later, 339 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: half of these rodents were given a choice between those 340 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: two rooms, and the room associated with that meth, of course, 341 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: was preferred by those rats who were injected with meth. 342 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: But the other half of the rodents were then injected 343 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: with something called La trunculin a or lat A, and 344 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: this is a chemical that interferes with actin and that's 345 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: a protein known to be involved in memory formation. So 346 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: when they were injected with lack day excuse me, latte, 347 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: the animals showed no preference between rooms even up to 348 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: a day later. Again, this is all highly experimental, but 349 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: it's it's giving us an idea that there are certain 350 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: interventions that can happen to address all the different facets 351 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: of addiction. And the researchers do point out that you 352 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about about this particular method being 353 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: used to just erase memories willy nilly. They say that 354 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 1: you actually couldn't take their discovery and erase your run 355 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: of the mill memory inside of the brain. Uh. They said, 356 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: you can only use this to get rid of these 357 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: strong drug associated memories. And of course there's gonna be 358 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: many more studies and they will have to be human 359 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: trials in order for this too for the FDA to 360 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: approve of it um. But that gets us into this 361 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: other territory in which the f d A has approved 362 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: one type of vaccine but not another. And when I'm 363 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,719 Speaker 1: talking about our vaccines developed by Kim d Janda, he 364 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: was on that World Science Festival panel of the Craving 365 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: Brain to block the effects of heroin and users, but 366 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: also block the effects of nicotine and users. So guess 367 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: which one is being funded? Oh well, obviously they're going 368 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: to fund the nicotine one because that's your that's your 369 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: kind of your your white collar drug. Everyone is dealing 370 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: with nicotine. But heroin, Oh, that's that's a dirty that's 371 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: a dirty drug. That's that that's the at the bottom 372 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: of the circus tent, right, that's the that's down there 373 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: with the safety name. Yeah, even though an estimated twelve 374 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: million to fourteen million people used heroin as of two 375 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: thousand and nine, accorded to according to the United Nations 376 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: Office on Drugs and Crime, and Americans uh something like 377 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: two in two thousand and eleven. So obviously it's a 378 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: pervasive problem when we spend a lot of money on 379 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 1: that um. But the vaccine itself stimulates the immune system 380 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 1: to recognize the substance and has to be given over 381 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,720 Speaker 1: a period of weeks, which eventually renders the person immune 382 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: to the drug. Because how do our immune systems try work. Right, 383 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: Our immune systems evolved to deal with foreign outside invaders, 384 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: so our immune system doesn't doesn't look at incoming cocaine 385 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,200 Speaker 1: or heroin or nicotine or alcohol and say say, oh, 386 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,719 Speaker 1: that's bad, let's go after that. They say, sorry, that's 387 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: not on our list of of suspects. We're not gonna go. 388 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: We're not gonna go to right, you know. So the 389 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: idea who are this vaccine is? It is it puts 390 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: those offenders on the on the suspect list for our 391 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: immune system and keeps them from crossing a very important border, 392 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: at least in the case of the heroine. Yeah, the 393 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 1: blood brain barrier, because that's key here. That will actually 394 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: block any psychoactive effects. So in other words, you're not 395 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: going to get high. Yeah. And what they found in 396 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: the rats, or what Genda said he found is that 397 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: they would give the rats like uh doses overdose quantity, right, Yeah, 398 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: and the rats would survive when they were vaccinated. So 399 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: of course it's not something you would want to try 400 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: and human trials, but um, but it does lead us 401 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: to this idea that once you take the psychoactive part out, 402 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,120 Speaker 1: the actual um blood brain barrier part, where it doesn't 403 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 1: get into your brain and then affect the rest of 404 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: the system. Is that you could render this this drug toothless. Yeah, 405 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: and it's it's important to know that this is not 406 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: like like a lot of other vaccines. It's not a 407 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: situation where you'd say, all right, give everybody in the 408 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: population the heroin vaccine and then heroin doesn't work on 409 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: any body. This would be more of a tool to 410 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: prevent a relapse. Really. Yeah, But again, the problem here 411 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: is the stigma, because of course the nicotine one has 412 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: human trials. It's brought to market. Just look at those 413 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: polite people and the TV commercials dealing with their nicotine problems, right, 414 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: and certainly many of our listeners are dealing with the 415 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: nicotin problems. I don't want to cheapen it or anything, 416 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: but it's it's far more socially acceptable. I think of 417 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: your TV version of the guy who's smoking too much, 418 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: and it's just a random guy. It might even be 419 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: Goofy from the Disney cartoons. I finally remember him trying 420 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: to quit smoking on the cartoon. I never saw a 421 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: Disney cartoon in which Goofy had to deal with a 422 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: heroin problem, even though that fits the time period right 423 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: the forties, you know perfect. I mean you could see 424 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: Mickey tying his arm off. I mean, we're making light 425 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,919 Speaker 1: of this, but really, I mean this is this is 426 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:58,360 Speaker 1: something that I think is very disheartening, especially for chimd Janda, 427 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: who came up with a vaccine in the first place, 428 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: for heroin to stop this spread of AIDS, because of 429 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: course the vector here as uh use needles. So I 430 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: think it's got to be uh, really just disheartening for 431 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,959 Speaker 1: him to hear from um big pharma there's no market 432 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: for this. There's no market for a heroin vaccine, are 433 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: you kidding? Yeah, it's because again, when you look at 434 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: the huge public health benefit to something like this, it's 435 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: just it's an insane Yeah. And another thing that they 436 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: said on the panel is that this just has to 437 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: become more of the national discussion, and that, uh that 438 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: doctors need to have medical training on how to talk 439 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: to their patients about addiction, because they say right now 440 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: that they're not trained in that, and that the big 441 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: joke among doctors is that if a patient comes to 442 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: you and says, I drink four drinks a night, you 443 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: should probably double whatever it is that they say um 444 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: and you and not even really address the problem or 445 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: the situation a digny deeper. Yeah, it doesn't seem like 446 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: any time you're you're you're dealing with the doctor. It's 447 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: like it's not maybe it's not firmly established in the 448 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,159 Speaker 1: public mindset that this is a safe tone and that 449 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: you can actually talk about what you're putting into your 450 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 1: body legally or illegally because it is bottom line essential 451 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:20,120 Speaker 1: to your health. But you know, I think that if 452 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: the I think that if the medical field approached it 453 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: in a different way, and like, for instance, I went 454 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: to um my doctor and she said, hey, Julia, friend, 455 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: these tests on you. It looks like you've got some 456 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: genetic predispositions for addiction. I wanted to, you know, just 457 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 1: give you a heads up or are you in any 458 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: sort of stress loops in your life that you need 459 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: help with or that you're aware of. Then it I know, 460 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: it takes up more time with your doctor, but again, 461 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: it's opening up the line of communication and it's taking 462 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: out the stigma because you're talking about it. And if 463 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: this is something that is so pervasive in society. By 464 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: the way, something like eight percent of all pharmacutical suiticals 465 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,640 Speaker 1: are consumed by the US by people in the United States. 466 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: Those are a lot of drugs, legal drugs, but still 467 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: drugs that are being distributed and um and consumed by people. 468 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: So this obviously is is not just a kind of 469 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 1: aside problem that some people have. You know, I want 470 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: to point out another possible application for the vaccine that 471 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,719 Speaker 1: was brought up the heroin vaccine, is that, you know, 472 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: we were talking about rodents that were given this vaccine, 473 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: how they could take essentially almost like a lethal overdose 474 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: amount of the drug and and still be fine. Uh, 475 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: there's a possibility that the vaccine could be used to 476 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,440 Speaker 1: treat people who are who have overdose symptoms. So healthcare 477 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 1: professionals pick someone up or arrive at a scene someone's 478 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: clearly overdosing on on heroin, they can apply the vaccine 479 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: as a curative measure. Yeah, so emergency medicine could really 480 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 1: benefit from this. But again, I just keep pointing to 481 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: this idea that if you start to talk about it, 482 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: if you start to remove the stigma, then you can 483 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: really get to the behavior part of it, and to 484 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: the root causes of it, the depression, anxiety, whatever it 485 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: is that's going on in a person's life and treat 486 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: them mental health part of this equation which is so important. 487 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: And it's a shame that the whole topic becomes so 488 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 1: political as well, because like even a story like we 489 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: mentioned Philips he more Hoffman earlier, I looked him up 490 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: again and was looking at some of the various articles 491 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: about him, and you still see this sort of the 492 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 1: gut reaction from from some commentators where some people, you know, 493 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: we're saying, oh, well, this is you know, horrible. This 494 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 1: is a very talented man who struggled with it with 495 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: his dean. I don't even want to say his demons, 496 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: because that personifies it as something supernatural and not something 497 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: that's based in in in physical illness. Um. But people 498 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: were saying, oh, this is terrible. We had to deal 499 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: with this disease and it eventually caught up with him. 500 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: And then there's still people who are going to say, oh, well, 501 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: he was just essentially saying oh well he was just weak, 502 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: Oh he was just this is you know, moral failure 503 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: of his character. He was just another you know, Hollywood 504 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 1: phony or whatnot. You like, you still see that kind 505 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: of attitude, uh, you know, all over the place. Yeah. 506 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: I remember reading an op ed piece, and I can't 507 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: remember if it was Slate or Salon, but there was 508 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: this forty five year old dad with a family who 509 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: wrote about, Hey, look, this is a reminder of the 510 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: slippery slope when it comes to what you know, he 511 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: would say, brain disease is when it comes to addiction, 512 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 1: because I was someone who was on the edge and 513 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: a very lucky to have not died with my addictions. 514 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: And I'm forty five years old, and I realized that 515 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: there are many triggers that could cause us, just as 516 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: it did with Hoffman. So there you have it, a 517 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: little little luxie into the future. Uh, ways that we 518 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: can deal with addiction, the way the way that we 519 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: might deal with addiction. But again, there there has to 520 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: be enough of investment in the public mindset um to 521 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: really see this. Uh, this heroin vaccine reached the point 522 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: where actually affecting world health. All right, So there you 523 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: have it. Hey, if you want to explore more topics, 524 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: so just this one and be sure to check out 525 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. 526 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: That's where you will find all of the podcast episodes, 527 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,959 Speaker 1: all of the blog posts, the videos, as well as 528 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: links out to our social media accounts such as our 529 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: Facebook or Twitter or Tumbler, and Hey, if you have 530 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: thoughts about the science of addiction, about the future of addiction, 531 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,560 Speaker 1: your own personal take, you can share them with this 532 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: via email at blow the mind at how stuff works 533 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: dot com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, 534 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: visit how stuff works dot com.