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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had to Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Matt and.

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Speaker 1: Today we're talking life after financial independence with the Mad Scientist.

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Speaker 3: That's right, we are actually talking with Brandon Gansch, also

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Speaker 3: known as the Mad Fientist. And you might already notice

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Speaker 3: that it sounds a little bit different than it typically

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Speaker 3: does when we record a How to Money episode. This

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Speaker 3: is because we are doing a field recording. We are

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Speaker 3: actually in Scotland. Joel and I we took a trip

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Speaker 3: with our wives and we happen to find our way

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Speaker 3: down where it is that Brandon lives with his wife

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Speaker 3: and his new son. So first of all, Brandon, he's

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Speaker 3: originally a programmer. He is a music producer, creates his

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Speaker 3: own own music. He is a blogger, he's a podcaster,

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Speaker 3: and we're going to talk about all of the things

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Speaker 3: that he is up to. This is going to be

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Speaker 3: maybe a little more of a non traditional episode here

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Speaker 3: for How to Money, but we wanted to be able

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Speaker 3: to bring something fun and interesting to all of you

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Speaker 3: folks out there. So Brandon, thank you so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us today on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you guys for coming all the way to Scotland.

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Speaker 2: It's not often that people make their way all the

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Speaker 2: way out to where we are.

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Speaker 4: So I appreciate you guys coming by.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, we wanted to come to Scotland, wanted

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Speaker 1: to hang out with you, two to drink Scotch and

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Speaker 1: three to enjoy the scenery. But our first question to

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Speaker 1: every guest we have on the show, Brandon is as

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Speaker 1: you know, what is your.

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Speaker 4: Craft beer equivalent?

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Speaker 1: Matt and I love craft beer, and we spend way

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Speaker 1: too much money on it while we're saving and investing

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Speaker 1: wisely for the future. So what is that expense in

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Speaker 1: your life? So he used to be Kraft beer.

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Speaker 2: I am also, and that's how we met and how

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Speaker 2: we formed our close friendship is that we do have

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Speaker 2: a very similar appreciation of Kraft beer.

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Speaker 4: So it used to be that.

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Speaker 2: But nine months ago we had a son, and now

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Speaker 2: I can drink maybe half a half a craft beer.

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Speaker 4: Before I want to fall asleep.

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Speaker 2: So our craft beer consumption has drastically declined just because

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Speaker 2: we can't stay awake long enough to enjoy it properly.

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Speaker 2: But now it seems to be synthesizers, which actually this

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Speaker 2: year I haven't spent too much on synthesizers today. This year,

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Speaker 2: this year was mostly buying a house, which we haven't

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Speaker 2: owned a house for almost ten years, and now that

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Speaker 2: we have a son, our jet setting lifestyle is over

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Speaker 2: for the time being, which I'm perfectly happy with. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: this year has been house but in the in the

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Speaker 2: past few years has been synthesizers, which you are now

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Speaker 2: surrounded by this in this makeshift studio.

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Speaker 4: That I just set up for you. Guys.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there are multiple moog since sitting here. Honestly, I

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Speaker 3: wish I knew more about them, But maybe we'll talk

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Speaker 3: a little bit more about that after.

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Speaker 2: Hey, we can fire them up and we can have

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Speaker 2: forty five minutes of just weird bleeps and bloops and

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Speaker 2: you'll think our two DT's are two detas was in

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Speaker 2: the room.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, we could do that if you want. Just

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Speaker 4: let me know. I love it.

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Speaker 3: I love it all right, Brandon. So, first of all, honestly,

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Speaker 3: I'm not totally sure of your financial history. I would

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Speaker 3: love to know how it is that you got to

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Speaker 3: learn about basically how to handle your own money. Was

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Speaker 3: this something that y'all talked about within your own household.

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Speaker 3: Was this something that you formally learned or is it

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Speaker 3: something yeah, maybe that you figured out on your own.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know where it came from, but I

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Speaker 2: loved money ever since I was a kid. My parents

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Speaker 2: have stories of you know, throwing quarters into the deep

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Speaker 2: end of the pool, and as soon as I found one,

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Speaker 2: then I would spend like five hours searching.

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Speaker 4: The deep end of the pool to find them.

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Speaker 2: And then my grandma actually was like, yeah, you went

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Speaker 2: home after that night and you called back and said,

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Speaker 2: did anyone find any more money in the pool. So

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Speaker 2: I really don't understand where it comes from. But I

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Speaker 2: always loved money. And then as I got older, I

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Speaker 2: loved math and I appreciated the fact that hey, you

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Speaker 2: could invest this money and then it would grow. So

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Speaker 2: my dad bought me five stock certificates back when they

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Speaker 2: actually had them on paper, and so I would look

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Speaker 2: in the newspaper to see how my stocks were doing.

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Speaker 2: And you know, this was back in the days where

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Speaker 2: it was like fifty five and one eighth and all

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Speaker 2: this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 4: And I'd look and I'd be like, oh, that's good.

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Speaker 4: It was it was fifty five.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, So this is I'm making money. So I don't

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Speaker 2: know because my brother's he's good with money, but he's

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Speaker 2: not obsessed with money like I was.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's.

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Speaker 2: Some innate money loving in my life. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: guess the fact that I do love math and I

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Speaker 2: can appreciate even though I can't like fully comprehend like

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Speaker 2: compound interests, like it's still a difficult thing to like

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Speaker 2: visualize and imagine, but I think I appreciated it more

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Speaker 2: than the average person.

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Speaker 1: I guess that's so funny because I feel like my

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Speaker 1: fascination with money, or the way I started off, was

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Speaker 1: so much more emotional than mathematical. My parents not handling

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Speaker 1: money terribly well, and it becoming just like this this

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Speaker 1: thing in our family that and me at a particular

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Speaker 1: age where I was more susceptible to feeling a different

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Speaker 1: sense of what was happening in our family than my

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Speaker 1: younger sister who was too young to understand, my older

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Speaker 1: sister who was kind of in high school hanging.

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Speaker 4: Out with boys.

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Speaker 1: And I'm in this middle school Joel, who is particularly

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Speaker 1: vulnerable to kind of what's going on with the family finances.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious, and so much of your content on

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Speaker 1: Mad Scientists on your website has really revolved around a

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Speaker 1: lot of the mathematics, around money. The way you write

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Speaker 1: about kind of handling taxes and retirement accounts, you've really

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Speaker 1: you really dove into the weeds. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: when you started there was no other source on the

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Speaker 1: web talking about money really in such like an approachable

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Speaker 1: but also nuanced a way. So kind of what made

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Speaker 1: you dive so deeply into how to handle money from

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Speaker 1: like a financial independence perspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a really good point because I

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Speaker 2: guess it was my age, maybe when my parents got

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Speaker 2: divorced and then it was mainly my mom raised in

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Speaker 2: two boys, and you know, money was always tight, and

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Speaker 2: it was always a focus, and it was never to

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Speaker 2: be wasted. And maybe maybe I've never really thought about

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Speaker 2: it like that, but I think that's a really good point.

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Speaker 2: Like my age at that time really understood that, whereas

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Speaker 2: maybe my brother was like, ah, everything's fine, we have

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Speaker 2: everything we need, and we always did have everything we needed,

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Speaker 2: and I never felt like we were wanting for anything.

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Speaker 2: But I also realized how important it was to not

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Speaker 2: waste the money. So I think I think that's a

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Speaker 2: really good point because I think one my age at

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Speaker 2: the time of you know, the divorce and maybe going

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Speaker 2: off and being raised by my mom predominantly allowed me

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Speaker 2: to appreciate money. But then also as a kindergartener having

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Speaker 2: a divorce and being like feeling like you're sort of

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Speaker 2: out of control. Then the math math doesn't lie, and

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Speaker 2: you can plan.

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Speaker 4: You know, you can.

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Speaker 2: Plan really and like the math doesn't lie if you

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Speaker 2: if you follow these steps and you add that much

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Speaker 2: and it's going to grow at this much, then that works.

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Speaker 2: So I think maybe that's what could have driven the

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Speaker 2: later stuff that, like the actual math fnd is stuff.

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Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, I have this control over my life

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Speaker 2: and maybe as a kid, I didn't feel like I

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Speaker 2: had that control.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's really deep.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we've maybe we've broken through some here and I

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Speaker 2: can understand myself a little better.

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Speaker 3: Tools might might be taken a leave out of his

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Speaker 3: wife's book when it comes to counseling, but I.

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Speaker 4: Think that's that's so true. We talk about the different.

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Speaker 3: Ways that we seek to create control or you know,

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Speaker 3: we try to create order within our lives and just

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Speaker 3: the world. It seems like a very chaotic place.

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Speaker 4: And so if there's a way that you.

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Speaker 3: Can basically put your finger on it, I completely understand

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Speaker 3: the desire from an analytical standpoint to control something and

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Speaker 3: to understand how it is that something works where it

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Speaker 3: feels like it's not just completely going off the rails.

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Speaker 3: But so for you, that was certainly a personal sort

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Speaker 3: of way that you saw that manifest in your in

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Speaker 3: your life. How is it that you came about actually

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Speaker 3: then publicly writing about personal finances and specifically I guess

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Speaker 3: launching the mad Fientist blog.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that that was the really exciting thing. So so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you have to go back. I'm in my late twenties.

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Speaker 2: My twenties, I had all these big plans like this

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Speaker 2: is how I was going to live my life, and

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Speaker 2: I was going to create all these amazing things, and

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Speaker 2: I was really excited about it. And then the twenties

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Speaker 2: just grind grinded on.

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Speaker 4: And then when I.

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Speaker 2: Turned thirty, I had this meltdown. It was like a

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Speaker 2: middle life crisis. But when I was thirty, it was

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Speaker 2: very embarrassing, which it's a funny story now, but it

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Speaker 2: was super embarrassing at the time. We went up to

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Speaker 2: jp Vermont, I had I don't know, like eight six

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Speaker 2: or eight friends that we went skiing. We had a

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Speaker 2: great day skiing. I turned thirty and I was like,

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Speaker 2: what have I done with my life? I've done nothing. Jill,

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Speaker 2: my now wife was a girlfriend at the time, took

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Speaker 2: that personally, like, what do you mean You've done nothing?

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Speaker 2: Like We've built this amazing life together. I'm like, I've

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Speaker 2: done nothing. I had this it was embarrassing. Everyone went

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Speaker 2: to bed sad and we after this great day of skiing.

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Speaker 2: And but it was because I felt like that, because

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Speaker 2: I like, I hadn't accomplished anything that I thought I

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Speaker 2: wanted to accomplish. I hadn't built anything I wanted to build.

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Speaker 2: I overanalyzed everything that I wanted to do, like I

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Speaker 2: would just overanalyze it to death until I thought it

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Speaker 2: was a stupid idea. And that's I created the Medfientist

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Speaker 2: a few days later because I was like, I'm so

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Speaker 2: excited about this idea of financial independence. Because I got

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Speaker 2: introduced by to financial independence through get rich Slowly, which

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Speaker 2: those three words or exactly what I wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I just want to get rich slowly,

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Speaker 2: Like I don't want to live a flashy lifestyle or anything.

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Speaker 2: I just want to get rich slowly. I want to

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Speaker 2: be comfortable, I want to be secure. I want to

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Speaker 2: be able to do what I want because throughout my life,

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Speaker 2: I've always felt like I've known best and like I,

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Speaker 2: like I mentioned earlier, like I do like control, and

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Speaker 2: I like I've thought about things more than the average person.

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Speaker 2: So like taking instructions from a boss that I didn't

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Speaker 2: feel like they understood everything was very hard for me.

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Speaker 2: So like, I wanted to get to a place where

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Speaker 2: I could call the shots and be secure and all

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Speaker 2: of that thing. So when I found get rich Slowly,

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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, that's exactly what I'm gonna do.

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Speaker 2: I want to do it properly. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: just do the next fad. I just want to get

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Speaker 2: rich slowly. And then he interviewed Jacob Lenfisker, and Jacob

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Speaker 2: had written a book called Early Retirement Extreme, and he

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Speaker 2: laid out the math and it was just so simple.

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Speaker 2: But I'd never thought of it in that way before,

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Speaker 2: and it was just, Okay, yeah, you can stop working.

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Speaker 4: Retirement's not an age.

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Speaker 2: It's a time when your assets are a certain multiple

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Speaker 2: of your expenses. And that changed everything because I was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, here we go. That's simple math. I love math.

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Speaker 2: I can understand that. And yeah, it's not this dream

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Speaker 2: destination when you hit sixty. It's actually just a function

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Speaker 2: of your spending, and my spending can be reduced and

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Speaker 2: my income can be increased.

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Speaker 4: And it was the.

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Speaker 2: Thing that I was most I did about at that time.

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Speaker 2: So I turned thirty in twenty twelve January and I

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Speaker 2: launched them at fientists like I think February second of

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve, because I was like, I could overanalyze.

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Speaker 4: This to death.

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Speaker 2: I could start in LLC when I don't need one.

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Speaker 2: I can worry about the legal ramifications of giving financial

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Speaker 2: advice on the internet, all these things that don't matter

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Speaker 2: because I have no readers. Or I could just start

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Speaker 2: it because my twenties were all of that stuff.

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Speaker 4: So I just started it.

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Speaker 2: I asked mister money Mustache to be my first guest

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Speaker 2: on my podcast because he was a software developer like me,

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Speaker 2: had no idea how big he was or how big

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Speaker 2: he would become. And yeah, just went from there. So

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Speaker 2: it was a lot of luck for timing wise, but

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Speaker 2: it was also just me reaching the end of the

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Speaker 2: rope of like overanalyzing things to death. I just needed

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Speaker 2: to take action.

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Speaker 4: That's funny.

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Speaker 1: When you were talking about kind of your goal behind

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Speaker 1: financial independence, not to become super wealthy or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: It made me think of our friends Julian and Kirsten,

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Speaker 1: who'd do rich in regular and I love kind of

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Speaker 1: that those three words in tandem, rich and regular, and

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Speaker 1: that is like kind of the aspiration of that Matt

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Speaker 1: and I have as well. It's wealthy over a long

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Speaker 1: period of time. It is nothing flashy. It is it

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Speaker 1: really old, pretty ugly minivans, and people assume when we

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Speaker 1: drive around town, oh, like that's that person doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any money. So talk to me though about that. Because

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Speaker 1: wealth can, I think, have a certain flash, you can

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Speaker 1: show it off. There are ways to make people understand

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Speaker 1: that you are a person of means. Why was that

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Speaker 1: never anything that you aspired to when you kind of

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Speaker 1: figure out figured out what money can do, what money

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Speaker 1: can be. How come that was never one of the

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Speaker 1: goals of money for you.

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Speaker 2: That was the luckiest thing I think about my journey.

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Speaker 2: It was the fact that not only was that not

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Speaker 2: important to me, but it was like actually the reverse,

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Speaker 2: Like I wanted to downplay it. I still want to

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Speaker 2: downplay it.

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Speaker 4: You guys are.

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Speaker 2: Sitting in the brand new house that we bought, and

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Speaker 2: it is grander and flashier than anything I've ever purchased

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Speaker 2: in my life, and I still feel very weird about it,

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Speaker 2: not to say I'm not happy, Like I love it,

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Speaker 2: I love everything about it, but it is I would

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Speaker 2: I would be more comfortable if it was less grand

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Speaker 2: and less I don't know, it just stands out a

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Speaker 2: little bit too much. But the real estate market's crazy,

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Speaker 2: and this was the absolutely the best thing that we've seen.

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Speaker 4: On the market.

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Speaker 2: So I'm so happy that we got it, and I'm

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Speaker 2: absolutely thrilled about it. But yeah, I don't I don't

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Speaker 2: know where that comes from. I think it's my grandparents

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Speaker 2: struggled and they had you know, they had three kids

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Speaker 2: and all they had four kids, and they had a

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Speaker 2: bunch of foster kids, and they were always like every

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Speaker 2: penny was to be looked after and not to be wasted.

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Speaker 2: And the same with my upbringing. So it's like and

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Speaker 2: all my friends and every No, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Have rich friends. I don't have rich tastes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I love going to like a really fancy restaurant

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Speaker 2: once in a while for a treat, but I'd be

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Speaker 2: much more comfortable getting like a really good burger and.

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Speaker 4: Stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So it's like my identity is so tied to like

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Speaker 2: middle class that the fact that the money in the

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Speaker 2: bank isn't that anymore is very hard to come to

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Speaker 2: terms with, because money is really useful, like this house

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Speaker 2: is in particular, is like testament to that, like using

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Speaker 2: money to buy nice things is really actually good, and

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Speaker 2: like for my entire life, I've always kept myself from

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Speaker 2: doing that because I was saving and saving and saving

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Speaker 2: to get to financial independence. But now that we've been

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Speaker 2: here for the last six years and the portfolio has

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Speaker 2: grown even despite just using it, it's like, Okay, this

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Speaker 2: is going to snowball out of control because compound interest

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Speaker 2: is an actually really powerful thing. So we got to

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Speaker 2: start spending it. And every single change we've made so far,

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Speaker 2: except maybe a business class flight that wasn't worth the

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Speaker 2: extra money or the extra miles I couldn't I couldn't

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Speaker 2: use money. I used miles, but it wasn't worth the

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Speaker 2: extra miles.

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Speaker 4: But every every other.

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Speaker 2: Thing that we've pushed ourselves to spend a little bit

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Speaker 2: more has been worth it. So for someone who's supernaturally

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Speaker 2: frugal has a blog about frugality and like saving a

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Speaker 2: bunch of money. I'm surprised over the last two years

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Speaker 2: that I've let myself relax a little bit.

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Speaker 4: How much fun spending is so Like, it's.

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Speaker 2: Weird to be talking about that because yeah, like as

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Speaker 2: a frugality blogger, but it's been it's been so much fun.

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Speaker 2: Like I money has been more fun to spend than

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Speaker 2: it has been to save recently. But it's only because

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Speaker 2: I know that I'm not like making a huge dent

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Speaker 2: into that before though, so I think that may be

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Speaker 2: the difference. It's like, yeah, spending when I didn't have

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Speaker 2: a lot now just stress me out because I wasn't saving.

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Speaker 2: But now that I know that we're set, like, it

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Speaker 2: has been nice to just relax a little bit, which

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Speaker 2: is a huge surprise.

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Speaker 3: You're you're talking about lifestyle and how it is that

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Speaker 3: you're spending money, and it's funny that you consider your

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Speaker 3: I mean, you mentioned like a frugality blogger when it

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Speaker 3: seems like so much of what you honestly what you

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Speaker 3: specialize in and what I think folks go to you

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Speaker 3: for is the number crunching. It's more of the analytical

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Speaker 3: side of things. But I actually I do have a

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Speaker 3: quick follow up about consumption and spending, and we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about fire, financial independence, retiring early,

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Speaker 3: and we'll get to some of those questions right after

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Speaker 3: this break. All right, we are back from the break.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, I wanted to mention Brandon, you

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Speaker 3: were so incredibly generous and we have already enjoyed a

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Speaker 3: couple very delicious, very amazing beers. And Brandon was not

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Speaker 3: joking when you mentioned how we share a love of

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Speaker 3: craft beer and we have some of the finest here.

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Speaker 3: I just took a sept from mine and it's so

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Speaker 3: stinking good. We'll talk about our thoughts on the beer

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Speaker 3: at the end of the episode. But right before the break,

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Speaker 3: I was we were talking about consumption, like was there

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Speaker 3: a point? Was there like did a light turn on?

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Speaker 3: Was there a switch that flipped that allowed you to

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Speaker 3: start spending money to kind of shift from that frugality

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Speaker 3: mindset to actually start enjoying some of your money, Like

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Speaker 3: when did that point in time come for you?

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Speaker 2: So I had created a software application prior to even

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Speaker 2: starting The Mad Scientist, and it started generating more income

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Speaker 2: than we actually spend. So it was at that point

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Speaker 2: where I was like, Okay, we have this five portfolio

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Speaker 2: that is meant to be providing all of our spending money,

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Speaker 2: we're not even touching it because this application that I

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Speaker 2: created a year or two before is actually bringing in more.

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Speaker 2: So it was at that point I was like, this

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Speaker 2: is ridiculous. So what I need to do is at

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Speaker 2: least spend what the fire portfolio could generate every year

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Speaker 2: in perpetuity, which is the whole point of saving up

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Speaker 2: a big portfolio and pursuing FI. So that amount was

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Speaker 2: about double what we normally spent over the last decade.

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Speaker 4: So I've never hit that target.

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Speaker 2: It's been a target for the past three years, and

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Speaker 2: I got I got fairly close the first year because

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Speaker 2: I was we were traveling a lot that was post pandemic,

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Speaker 2: so I was like, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna go

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Speaker 2: and see my family. We're gonna go and travel, and like,

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Speaker 2: we've been pent up in this one bedroom Edinburgh apartment

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Speaker 2: for a whole year, so let's go crazy. And we

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Speaker 2: got sort of close, but we didn't. We didn't hit

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Speaker 2: the target. Last year, we moved into a rental, which

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Speaker 2: I knew was going to be our last rental before

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Speaker 2: buying a place, so I was like, this will allow

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Speaker 2: us to buy the things that we want to buy

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Speaker 2: because we're only gonna have to move them one more time.

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Speaker 2: So I bought like a super fancy coffee grinder, which

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Speaker 2: you guys got the he got to reap the benefits

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Speaker 2: of with a nice coffee when you arrived, and things

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Speaker 2: like that, and we sort of got we got less

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Speaker 2: close because that was I had a list of things

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Speaker 2: I wanted to buy for a lot of years and

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Speaker 2: it wasn't It was a small list because I don't

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Speaker 2: like stuff. So then this year we were really, we

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Speaker 2: were really lagging behind the target. But then we just

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Speaker 2: bought a house, So I think we're gonna maybe hit

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Speaker 2: it this year because we're trying to furnish a house.

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Speaker 2: Even though it's been furnished when we bought it, which

401
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: was super nice, we're still adding a few things to it.

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Speaker 2: So maybe we'll get close this year. But this year

403
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Speaker 2: I've set the target that if I don't spend it,

404
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 2: I have to give it away because I also want

405
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Speaker 2: to try to get better at give it away to

406
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Speaker 2: charity because I just feel like we've been so fortunate,

407
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 2: but old habits die hard, So I'm still gripping every

408
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Speaker 2: penny with an iron fist, which I need to get

409
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Speaker 2: better at not doing, because yeah, it's just counter productive

410
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Speaker 2: at this stage.

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Speaker 4: So whatever we.

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Speaker 2: Don't spender under that goal going to give it away

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Speaker 2: to charity, which is a whole other thing I need

414
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Speaker 2: to explore. So yeah, so it was really the fact

415
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 2: that got to a point where didn't even draw down

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Speaker 2: on the fire portfolio and realized I needed to start

417
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Speaker 2: thinking about it. And then recently the Die with Zera

418
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,680
Speaker 2: book has been really influential, and that's only because Matt

419
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,600
Speaker 2: Fiintis readers and listeners actually recommended it when I was

420
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Speaker 2: talking about the stuff spend really impactful because he talks

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Speaker 2: about you need to enjoy your money at certain stages,

422
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Speaker 2: like right now, Like I'm forty one, and you know,

423
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Speaker 2: I love skiing, so I need to spend on skiing

424
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Speaker 2: now because maybe when I'm fifty, I'm going to be

425
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Speaker 2: in a lot less physical shape that.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's not going to be as fun.

427
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Speaker 2: And my son's young, so doing stuff with him is

428
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Speaker 2: going to be more fun now when he's young than

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Speaker 2: maybe when he's a teenager and doesn't want to hang

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Speaker 2: out with me and things like that, So it's put

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Speaker 2: a whole news perspective on things. And like I said before,

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Speaker 2: like I've enjoyed every little bit of the increase that

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Speaker 2: we've done it. And again, we're not spending even probably

434
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Speaker 2: what a typical American spends just normally. But every change

435
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Speaker 2: we made is spend beneficial so far.

436
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Speaker 1: It's so it's so interesting to hear you talk about

437
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: kind of those those trying to change the dial on

438
00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 1: saving or spending, because they're really two different approaches to money.

439
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Speaker 1: And those years of being frugal and you know, saving

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Speaker 1: and investing half or more of your income, which is

441
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 1: kind of what the fire person is into, is like

442
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: one way of approaching money, and then spending down that

443
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: portfolio is a different, completely different way of thinking about money.

444
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,720
Speaker 1: But talk to me about I'm curious a lot of

445
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,480
Speaker 1: people who are in the fire movement. I guess at

446
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: a certain point in time they might say, Wow, this

447
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: is really difficult to be setting aside this much of

448
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 1: my income. It's a really hard thing than to change

449
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,280
Speaker 1: your mentality. And so do you wish does any part

450
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 1: of you wish you could go back to some of

451
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 1: those early days when you were saving such an extreme

452
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: amount of your income and say, I wish I would

453
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: have lived it up a little more. I wish I

454
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,200
Speaker 1: would have saved a little bit less.

455
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,560
Speaker 2: Extremely Yeah, so I'm very lucky in the sense that

456
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 2: I don't have very many regrets. Joe and I we

457
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 2: travel to like fifty countries in our twenties and thirties,

458
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: and travel was like the big thing for me, and like, yeah,

459
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: I got really good at travel hacking and using points

460
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 2: and miles to make it cheap. But yeah, I'm glad

461
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: we did that when we were young, because a lot

462
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 2: of that travel I wouldn't want to do now in

463
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 2: my forties, So I'm really thankful for that. I'm thankful

464
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 2: that we didn't sacrifice that to like some glorious like

465
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: around the World trip when we're fifty or sixty, because

466
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: it just wouldn't be as fun, because travel in the

467
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,719
Speaker 2: forties is definitely not as fun as it was in

468
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 2: the twenties. The only regrets I have from my entire

469
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 2: fire journey is missing out on a few things in

470
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 2: my twenties. So for instance, like my buddies were getting married,

471
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 2: so like the bachelor party would be a month before

472
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 2: the wedding, and I'm like, I live in Scotland. I'm

473
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 2: not going to travel back to the States in June

474
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,080
Speaker 2: and then come back in July for the wedding.

475
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 4: Like I'll come to the wedding, that's the.

476
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: Important thing, you know, Like I'll give you my gifts

477
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 2: and get to catch up and all that stuff. But

478
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 2: I'm not going to come just to get wasted for

479
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: one night in June and then come all the way

480
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 2: back in July. But I do regret that because just

481
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 2: like the Die with Zero book says, those trips aren't

482
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 2: coming back. My buddies have stories that I'm not included

483
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: in because I wasn't there, and it would have been

484
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 2: so hard to spend that much money. Like even now,

485
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 2: knowing what I know now, it was still been a

486
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 2: really hard thing to spend that money to make two

487
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 2: translating trips within a month. But yeah, I didn't miss

488
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: out out on that stuff. So those are literally the

489
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 2: only things that I'm regretful of in my journey to FI. Like,

490
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: I'm glad I lived the lifestyle that we lived so

491
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 2: that we can live the lifestyle that we live now.

492
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 2: I'm glad that we just let our lifestyle gradually increase.

493
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 2: So even though our money was drastically increasing, with our

494
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: salaries increasing and side businesses increasing. We just gradually let

495
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: it increase, and that's what's made it fun all these years.

496
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,399
Speaker 2: Like how do I let it drastically increase in my

497
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,640
Speaker 2: twenties When I could have, I would probably be sick

498
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: of whatever I was doing in my twenties, whereas now,

499
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: like just the fact that we own a house again.

500
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: Is like a glorious thing.

501
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: It's like, Wow, I can put stuff in this drawer

502
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 2: and it's going to be in that drawer for the

503
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 2: next X number of years. Like that is like amazing

504
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: to me right now. So I'm glad we did it

505
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: gradually because yeah, you get to appreciate it more.

506
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 4: And I say this on my podcast a lot.

507
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 2: It's like we're really bad at knowing what we actually

508
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: want in life, so experimenting is the only way to

509
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 2: really know what you want. So we get to run

510
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 2: all these fun experiments and some of them don't work out.

511
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 4: And some of them do.

512
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: But but yeah, we could have easily just gone from

513
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 2: you know, broke students to like making whatever six figures

514
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 2: and having that whole lifestyle.

515
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 4: But it's like, what would we.

516
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: Get to look forward to in our forties, like long

517
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: answer to your question, But yeah, there's only one thing

518
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 2: I regret, and that is missing just a few bachelor

519
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: parties with my friends, because I'm even if we did

520
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 2: those trips again, we wouldn't be twenty year old idiots

521
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 2: like we would have been at that time, and we

522
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 2: wouldn't have the stories that resulted from this twenty year

523
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: old idiot extravagances. So but yeah, besides that, thankfully we

524
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: uh I didn't sacrifice too much.

525
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: I've got one more follow up. I guess when it

526
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 3: comes to how it is that you spend money, but

527
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: it sounds like that you were frugal, but it sounds

528
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 3: like you also had Jill. So Jill is your wife,

529
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: and that it seemed like she was on board. I

530
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 3: haven't heard many.

531
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 2: Stories shared, at least about.

532
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: Maybe y'all you know, knocking heads when it comes to

533
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 3: whether it's spending money or saving money or some of

534
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: the different decisions. How were you able to get her

535
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,119
Speaker 3: on board so easily? And you're shaking your head no,

536
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 3: And so if you if you weren't able to, how,

537
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 3: I guess what lessons did you learn along the way.

538
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 2: Jill was never like she was never flashy or never extravagant.

539
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: But if the money was in her account, it was

540
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: spent it. It wasn't it was like, yeah, it's there,

541
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: I'll spend it. It was yeah, I'm gonna end was

542
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: zero at the end of the month, It's fine, it

543
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. It's like, there's my money, I'm going to

544
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: use it. So luckily, it wasn't like battling against some

545
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 2: sort of like I need to show how successful I am,

546
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: or I need to show extravagant I am. It wasn't

547
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: anything like that. It was more like, all right, the

548
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 2: money's in the account, I'll spend it. She never really

549
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: understood why I was so intent on saving. It wasn't

550
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: until we really sat down. It was on our honeymoon. Actually,

551
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: so we dated for ten years before we got married.

552
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 2: So by the time our honeymoon rolled around, I was like, well, like,

553
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 2: what's your perfect life look like? She's like, well, what

554
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 2: do you mean perfect life? I was like, well, if

555
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: you could design exactly how you want to.

556
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 4: Live, what is it like.

557
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: She's like, what do you mean that's a stupid question.

558
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 4: Like I just I work like everybody else.

559
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 2: I cooked dinner and then you know, we just live

560
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: this normal existence. I was like, no, it doesn't have

561
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: to be like that, Like how would you design it?

562
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 2: If you could design it? And it was only when

563
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 2: we went through that exercise, and it wasn't a quick exercise.

564
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 2: It lasted well beyond the honeymoon. It was like lots

565
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 2: of discussions, lots of thinking about it, and like it

566
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 2: was only then that she realized, oh, you know, I

567
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 2: don't have to be driving to some office while she's

568
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 2: an uptomicist, but driving to some clinic forty hours a

569
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: week and being stuck there and having our whatever a

570
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: few weeks of vacation every year, Like we could actually

571
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: design it in a different way.

572
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 4: And that was the turning point.

573
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: So and then obviously starting the mad fientists help. So

574
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: I started that in twenty twelve, started interviewing other people

575
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: that thought like me. So she wasn't hearing it from me.

576
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 2: The last thing she wanted to do was get lectured

577
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 2: by me about how to deal with money. So hearing

578
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: from other people that thought differently about money was really helpful.

579
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: So I think it was the combination of those two things.

580
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: It almost seems like so obviously the question of asking

581
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 3: what should like what would our perfect life look like it.

582
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 3: It seems like that was a turning point where you

583
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: could start to like, essentially you're starting with the end

584
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 3: in mind and what steps do we need to take

585
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: in order to get there. Sounds like that was huge.

586
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 3: But what you're talking about now is like I hear

587
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: you talk about if you're not going to spend a

588
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 3: certain amount of money this year, like you're talking about

589
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 3: giving it away. So essentially for you, what seems to

590
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 3: be working now is essentially creating rules. You're basically creating

591
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 3: like an algorithm, a formula that is going to work

592
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: for you, and you know that if you don't follow

593
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 3: through and if X doesn't happen, well why is going

594
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 3: to happen? And I think that's important to point out

595
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: that for some individuals, depending on how it is that

596
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: you process and how it is that you think, it

597
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,199
Speaker 3: might literally whether it's coming up with a formula with

598
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: an XL or even just writing out on a sheet

599
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 3: of paper saying that my goal is to spend X

600
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: amount of my expendable income this year, or my goal

601
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 3: is to set aside this much for retirement, whatever it is.

602
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 3: I think for the individual, you have to figure out

603
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 3: the different approaches that are going to work for you.

604
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: That is going to be able to move the needle,

605
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: whether it comes to how much you're able to invest

606
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 3: your money or even in your case, it seems like

607
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: how much money you're going to spend. And so it

608
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: seems like that that's actually working out for you.

609
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, my entire life is run by spreadsheets.

610
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 2: So once I wasn't having spreadsheets to figure out how

611
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 2: much I was saving, I need to have spreadsheets to

612
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: tell me how much to spend. And yeah, just the

613
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 2: way my brain works, Like, I do enjoy that and

614
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 2: it does take my brain out of it a bit

615
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: as well. It's like it was very helpful on the

616
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: saving path because I knew, like this is what I

617
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: wanted to do and this is how I was going

618
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 2: to do it. But it's super helpful now because it's like,

619
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: I know I want to spend this much. I know

620
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 2: that's going to be a struggle. So then when I'm

621
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 2: out and about and a potential expense comes up, I'm like,

622
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 2: rather than before my entire life has been oh no,

623
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: spending is the worst thing that you can do. It's

624
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: the last ditch effort. It means you haven't spent twenty

625
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: hours on the internet trying to figure out a way

626
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: to come and get that same thing for way cheaper

627
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: or free. It means that you've failed. And so so

628
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 2: this is what you have to do. You have to spend.

629
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: So it's flip that and now it's like, Okay, I

630
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: have to spend this much more. So that's the no

631
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: brainer thing to do. I just do that and then

632
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: it helps me reach my other goal of spending this amount.

633
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: And yeah, for a naturally frugal person, it's been absolutely

634
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 2: ga game changing. And I realize how ridiculous it sounds,

635
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 2: and I know this is going to be a small

636
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 2: subset of the audience, but for all the fire people

637
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 2: out there, they know how this feels. And like even

638
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: some very famous fire people, I see them struggling a

639
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: lot with how to how to actually spend and utilize

640
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: the money that they saved up, because yeah, when you're gone,

641
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 2: money is meaningless, which it is all along, but we

642
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: at least trick ourselves into think it's not.

643
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I feel like we're such kindred spirits. We

644
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: approach money into completely different ways, but we have so

645
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 1: many similar thoughts and approaches and feelings towards it too,

646
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: So that's just yeah, fun to hear your perspective on that.

647
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: But we want to specifically talk about your life post five.

648
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: You've got a kiddo now that changes everything, as we

649
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: all know, anybody who has kids knows that that like

650
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: throws a wrench in every single one of our plans.

651
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: So we'll talk about that and just really, you know,

652
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: what life post financial independence has been like for more

653
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: than half a decade. We'll talk about more along those

654
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: lines with Brandon the Mad Fientist right after this.

655
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 4: All right, we're back.

656
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: We're still talking with the mad Scientists, our good friend

657
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: Brandon Gansch, and he is I mean really kind of

658
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: the OG in the Fire movement or one of the

659
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: OG's right, And we were talking earlier about just the

660
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: different generations of firefolks who have like you are essentially

661
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: the grandfather, like you were one of the originals. Well,

662
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 1: I feel like early retirement extreme was probably where Brandon

663
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: got it from, was like the original original writing. Nothing

664
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: it's more original than that, right, yeah, which is pretty

665
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: Jacob Lundfisker. So, but yeah, I want to talk about

666
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: what life has been like after you reached that point.

667
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of sacrifices, a lot of years, a

668
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: lot of saving a lot more than you make. And

669
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 1: our audience, again, a lot of some of our audiences

670
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: into the fire stuff more. A big chunk of our

671
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: audience is also really into like basic personal finance, but

672
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: financial independence. Matt and I always come at this conversation

673
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: about money from that perspective that maybe not retiring early,

674
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: but reaching financial independence within a reasonable amount of time

675
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: is a really good goal. So talk about what life

676
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: has been like once you kind of hit that goal.

677
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: It certainly seems like in those first couple of years

678
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of like wheel spinning that

679
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: you were not quite sure what life was going to

680
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: look like. Maybe you have this big old financial goal

681
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: that you wanted to hit, and then once you hit it,

682
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: you were like, I don't know what to do right now?

683
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, big time.

684
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 2: So for me, like I felt incorrectly that my job

685
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: was holding me back from everything that I wanted to do.

686
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: So I blamed my job on the reason that I

687
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 2: hadn't written an album like I'd always wanted to do

688
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: since I was a kid. I blamed my job for

689
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 2: the reason I hadn't started a business like I'd always

690
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: wanted to do. When I was maybe twenty plus, I

691
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: blamed my job for everything, and only after getting rid

692
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: of the job did I realize that my job had

693
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: nothing to do with any of that stuff. So the

694
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 2: first few years were weird. The first one was amazing.

695
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: So the first year after leaving my job, I was like,

696
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 2: this is amazing. Jill and I traveled all the way

697
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: around the world, used a bunch of our miles to

698
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: travel in like business class and try to try out

699
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: all that stuff. And we lived in Thailand and we

700
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 2: did all that stuff and it was amazing and it

701
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: was really fun.

702
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 4: You know. A couple months in, we're.

703
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 2: Like, okay, another temple who cares like this isn't the

704
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: like Jill knew it Jill. Jill wanted to do a

705
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 2: one month trip. I wanted to do a one year trip.

706
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 2: We settled on three months. By two months in, I

707
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: was like, God, Jill was right. She's always right, but

708
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 2: she lets me learn from my mistakes in practice rather

709
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: than lecturing me, So that's nice. So yeah, I was like, yeah,

710
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 2: it's another temple Jesus, Like it's lost its appeal. So

711
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: so then it was like Okay, well I still haven't

712
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: written that album that I always said I was gonna write,

713
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: and like, I haven't been an entrepreneur like I thought

714
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: it would be, and all this stuff, and you realize

715
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: that your job's.

716
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 4: Not stopping you from that.

717
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: It's self doubt, it's all the things that are the

718
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 2: things that every creative person has to go through to

719
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: create anything that they like. It's like you feel like

720
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 2: it's the worst thing that's ever been produced, and you

721
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: just all that stuff. It's like, so, yeah, not having

722
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 2: a job lets you more or less be miserable for

723
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day because the reason you're not

724
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 2: successful was all in your hands. And that's a very

725
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 2: difficult pill to swallow. And it was only the pandemic

726
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 2: that saved me, to be honest, because we had moved

727
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: to Edinburgh.

728
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 4: The whole city shut down.

729
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: The UK was way more lockdown than the States, I think,

730
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: and we had no options and it was like, all right, well,

731
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 2: you know, I've got the money to not have a job.

732
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: I've got absolutely no distractions because we can literally only

733
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 2: leave our apartment for one hour day it's for exercise,

734
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 2: and you can't even sit in the park. You have

735
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: to walk in the park because sitting is not exercise,

736
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 2: and it's like, Okay, I have to do this thing

737
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: that I said I'd always want to do, and that

738
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 2: was writ an album. And I spent that entire year

739
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,720
Speaker 2: writing the album. I did it, and it is still

740
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 2: my proudest accomplishment of all time because I know how

741
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: much awful self doubt, in like just torturous hours trying

742
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 2: things it took to make it. And I think that

743
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: I think that's the big lesson because people like me,

744
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 2: like I definitely did it, are racing towards five because

745
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,280
Speaker 2: they think it's going to solve all of their problems.

746
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 2: And it literally solves because when you log into your

747
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 2: bank account and you see a number on the screen,

748
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: you know a slightly larger number on that screen is

749
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: going to do nothing for your actual real life or

750
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: your real happiness. It's what you do with the knowledge

751
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: that you have that extra larger number in the screen

752
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 2: that really matters. And that's tough and it's tough to

753
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: figure out how to do that when you're not practiced

754
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: in it, and I wasn't practiced in it because all

755
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 2: my focus and all my energy was towards saving and

756
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 2: once I had saved enough, it was like, well, okay,

757
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 2: now what I haven't worked on that entrepreneurial muscle. I

758
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 2: haven't worked on that music muscle. I haven't worked on

759
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: the spending muscle. I've not worked any of that, and

760
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 2: they've all atrophied to nothing. Yes, I know how to save,

761
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 2: and that's something I really see in the fire movement

762
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: and which is why I've sort of backed away from

763
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: it over recent years. Is a lot of people it

764
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: seems like they get to fire and they want to

765
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: just integrate themselves more into the fire community, and that

766
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: just seems kind of productive to me because it's like

767
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: reaching financial independence is like, you know, you get really

768
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: good at using a hammer because you want to build,

769
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: Say I want to build a model airplane and you

770
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 2: want to build a boat, and yeah, everyone, it's it's

771
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 2: fun to talk about that hammer while you're building. But

772
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 2: then afterwards you want to hang out with boat people

773
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 2: or I want to hang out with model airplane people.

774
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 2: So that to reach FI and then just want to

775
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: just hang out more in the financial independent space seems

776
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: kind of productive because it's like, well that that was

777
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: just a tool to do something else.

778
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,879
Speaker 4: So that's why over the recent years, it's.

779
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 2: Like, I'm trying to get more into the music community

780
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 2: and things like that, because that's that was the whole point.

781
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 4: So it's a it's it's tough.

782
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: Because, yeah, you get so focused on something, you get

783
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,400
Speaker 2: so good at something, and then once you reach that goal,

784
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 2: the best thing to do is to leave it all behind.

785
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 4: And that's not natural.

786
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 3: I mean, essentially, you've in a sense won the money game,

787
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 3: and if you continue to focus on the financial independence

788
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 3: part of it, you are obsessing over that hammer. I mean,

789
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: this is why we so we call it the craft

790
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 3: beer equivalent, and this is a part of why we

791
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 3: taught we introduced every episode typically with a beer except

792
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: for our Friday flights, is because we're trying to kind

793
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 3: of flex that small muscle of what is it that

794
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 3: you do when it spend money on get creative when

795
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: it comes to the different things that you want to pursue,

796
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 3: and so in that way, like what are some of

797
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 3: the other I guess areas of life. So you've already

798
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 3: mentioned synthesizers in your pursuit of electronic music. You've also

799
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: mentioned the house, But I guess what are some of

800
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: the other ways that you not only see yourself allowing

801
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: yourself to spend money, but that you are intentionally trying

802
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: to see growth in other areas of your life, that

803
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: you are realizing that that's going to lead to long

804
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 3: lasting joy and fulfillment.

805
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question. And I just reach only

806
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: had a remat set to you on the podcast, my

807
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: podcast because I knew he would be the one to

808
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120
Speaker 2: push me a bit further. And he was talking to

809
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: me about like, okay, like what do you love like

810
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: And I've talked to you guys about this when you

811
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: arrived because I made you coffee and it's like, yeah,

812
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: I love my coffee ritual every day.

813
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: And he's like, well, how can you push that to

814
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 4: the next level?

815
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: And like he pushed me into levels that made me

816
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 2: literally sweat behind the microphone because I was like, that

817
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 2: is ridiculous, Like but I'm starting to do those and

818
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 2: they are great. So it's like he's like, well, what

819
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 2: if you could ten x that spend And I'm like,

820
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,360
Speaker 2: I have no idea because the thing that you asked

821
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: me to spend on was already like a huge stretch,

822
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 2: Like I couldn't even imagine spending on that. So to

823
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 2: tenx it is just insane. But talking to him through it,

824
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 2: like it actually made sense, and it was like, Okay, yeah,

825
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: I could ten x the spend, make absolutely no dent

826
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 2: in the portfolio whatsoever, and yet maybe have this even

827
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: more elevated coffee lifestyle than I already have. And so yeah,

828
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 2: so talk him was really important. But also it was

829
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: The Die with Zero book that again a bunch of

830
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 2: Matt fientists, readers and listeners recommended, And it was the

831
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 2: fact that it was like, all right, you need to

832
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 2: think about life in different stages, and yes, you could

833
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 2: save up now to have like the ultimate trip when

834
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 2: you're fifty, but when you're twenty, it may be a

835
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 2: lot more fun staying in hostels and getting drunk on

836
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,720
Speaker 2: really cheap beer with your best friends. And that really

837
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 2: resonated with me because I do find that, like I

838
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 2: said earlier, the one regret is not, you know, having

839
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 2: ridiculous bachelor parties with my buddies in the twenties, because

840
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,800
Speaker 2: that's not that's not going to happen again. So thinking

841
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: about where I am at in my life right now,

842
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 2: I'd always dreamed of, like quote unquote proper retiring to

843
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: the mountains because I love pond hockey, I love skiing,

844
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: I love snow, I love winter. I love everything about

845
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 2: that whole lifestyle. And now that I have a son,

846
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 2: like being able to ski with my son, like that's

847
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,279
Speaker 2: just sounds like the best thing in the world. That

848
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: was always the dream. So Joe and I were like,

849
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 2: well we can. We'll do primary school in Scotland and

850
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 2: then maybe move to a mountain destination. But then when

851
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 2: I read Dawood Zero, I was like, you know, when

852
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 2: I'm fifty, I may not want to, you know, be

853
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: putting my knees through all that skiing that I want

854
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,279
Speaker 2: to do now. So rather than yeah, save up a

855
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 2: bunch of money by the perfect mountain house and have

856
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: this perfect lifestyle with my ten year old son, maybe

857
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: every year we should just run him Airbnb for a

858
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: month and have an amazing month.

859
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:37,279
Speaker 4: And maybe that's enough.

860
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't need the house, and maybe I don't

861
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 2: need the community. If I have the community here in Scotland,

862
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 2: maybe I can just you know, have a month of

863
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 2: super fun winter and then we have our community here.

864
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,879
Speaker 4: So that's that's the thought this year.

865
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: That's it's going to use that money rather than just

866
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: keep stockpiling because that's easy. That's what I've been doing

867
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,320
Speaker 2: my whole life, rather than just keep stockpiling. And it's like,

868
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,960
Speaker 2: all right, let's use it to have an amazing winter month.

869
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 2: Let's teach my son to ski for the first time,

870
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:12,320
Speaker 2: and maybe that's going to be way better than saving

871
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: up all that money for this you know, mountain house

872
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,800
Speaker 2: that maybe we won't even get that much use out of.

873
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it takes work to think creatively about how it

874
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 3: is that you can start to spend that money now.

875
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: But like you said before, you're old.

876
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: Into credit, before you're while your knees give out and

877
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 3: you're not able to ski, which the three.

878
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 1: Of us are getting close to that place in our lives, right.

879
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: So okay, so I'm curious. Last question, So, thinking back

880
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 1: to young mad fientists, Brandon, and there are a lot

881
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: of how to money lists who are in that camp

882
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: who are kind of learning about how to handle money properly,

883
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: like what it looks like to be smart with money.

884
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,840
Speaker 1: And our thing is all about balance and some of

885
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,760
Speaker 1: the fire community, balance doesn't enter the equation no balance,

886
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,359
Speaker 1: And so what would you say to someone who's in there,

887
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,319
Speaker 1: you know, early mid twenties even early thirties, and they're saying,

888
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: I just kind of I'm stumbling upon this. I really

889
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: want to handle my money well, so I'm giving myself

890
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 1: more options for the future, but I also don't want

891
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: to sacrifice everything in the here. Now, what does it

892
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: look like for me to do that in a way

893
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: that is like true too and good and good to

894
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: my current self, but also yeah, but also good to

895
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: my future self.

896
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 4: That's a great question.

897
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: And yeah, so I would say, you know, I'm talking

898
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 2: down on financial independence.

899
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 4: But it's absolutely worth it.

900
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: The security of knowing that everything is okay and you

901
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 2: can do whatever you want.

902
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 4: That's priceless.

903
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 2: But I would look at every expense that you have

904
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 2: as Okay, is this something I can do in my

905
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: twenties and only in my twenties, then go ahead and

906
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 2: do it. But if this is something like a fancy

907
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: house or a fancy car, like yeah, when you're forty

908
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 2: and you you know, are stuck at home because you

909
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 2: have kids and you can't travel the world because it's

910
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: too complicated, then yeahee cars going to make you super happy,

911
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 2: So leave that for your forties. You don't have to

912
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: have everything perfect right away. Like, some of my happiest

913
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: times are as a student, and we had nothing when

914
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: we were students. So yeah, don't let this seem like

915
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: I'm talking down on five because there's not a day

916
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: that goes by that I don't appreciate the choices of

917
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: my twenties and thirties. But I would say, never let

918
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: your job be an excuse for what you really want

919
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 2: to be doing, because you have time. If you're on Twitter,

920
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: you have time. If you watch YouTube, you have time.

921
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: If you play video games, you have time. And you

922
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 2: just have to do the hard thing and make the

923
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 2: uncomfortable choices to do what you want to do. And

924
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: that's not going to change if you have a million,

925
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 2: ten million, one hundred million in the bank. So don't

926
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: let your job be an excuse for not doing what

927
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: you want to do. Just do the hard work, because

928
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: it's much harder to put off the hard work, trust me.

929
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a really good quote.

930
00:44:58,200 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: I can't remember it and I'm going to butcher it,

931
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: but it's something along the lines like there's only you

932
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 2: have to make a choice. It's either pain now or

933
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 2: pain later, and that is that is really really the case.

934
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 2: So choose the pain now. Because it'll make later a

935
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 2: lot more fun. You don't have to spend like everyone else.

936
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 4: I think.

937
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,560
Speaker 2: I think it just boils down to that you need

938
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: to experiment because you have no idea what you want.

939
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: You think you know what you want, but then you

940
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: don't because you try it and you're like, I don't

941
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 2: want this, So experiment in low you know you don't

942
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 2: want to experiment and buy the boat and think, Okay,

943
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: this is my experiment because the boat's expensive, but rent

944
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 2: the boat. See if you want to live on the ocean,

945
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 2: and you want because it's it's way, you're going to

946
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 2: sleep terribly. But don't put off your perfect life to FI.

947
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 2: If you are one of the fire people like me

948
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: who thought everything would be perfect once you hit FI.

949
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: But you know, don't spend like everyone else, because everyone

950
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 2: else is crazy.

951
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 3: I think that's why, Like I think that's so true.

952
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 3: Pain now or pain later, whether that's when it comes

953
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 3: to saving your money or in your case, spending it,

954
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 3: which I think it is more rare. But what I

955
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 3: hear you saying too is to pay attention to shelf

956
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: life right. Pay attention to the limited amount of time

957
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 3: and the limited exposure that you might have to certain experiences.

958
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: Don't short change those. And I really like too what

959
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 3: you ended there. When it comes to experimenting, figuring out

960
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,239
Speaker 3: what it is that you might actually enjoy, like what

961
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 3: is your craft beer equivalent, it takes some time, It

962
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 3: takes some trial and error to figure out what that

963
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 3: thing is.

964
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 4: But pick a lot of craft beer for us to

965
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 4: get there. That's true, Randa.

966
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 3: We really appreciate you chatting with us today on the podcast.

967
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 3: Will make sure to link to the Mad Scientists and

968
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 3: typically we say farewell at this point, but you are

969
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: sitting here with us and we are all sharing the

970
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 3: same craft beer. And so during this episode, we enjoyed

971
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 3: a beer by a Verdant.

972
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 4: This is Putty.

973
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 3: This is a triple IPA Brandon, I'm gonna toss this

974
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: over to you. What were your initial thoughts? What do

975
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 3: you think about this beer?

976
00:46:57,480 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 4: I love it.

977
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 2: So Verdant is one of my favorite ukber and Puddy

978
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: with three t's is their triple IPA version of their

979
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 2: flagship once a year release Putty, which I love as well.

980
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 2: So yeah, Putty trip IPA is pretty impressive. And we've

981
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: already gone through some cloud water troubles to get to

982
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: this stage. So I can't believe I'm stringing any two

983
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 2: words together at this stage because yeah, as a new dad.

984
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 2: As a new dad, Joe and I can maybe handle

985
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 2: one half of a beer before.

986
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: We fall asleep.

987
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: So the fact that we've got through so many triple

988
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 2: IPAs to get to the stage is a pretty pretty

989
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 2: amazing feat. So thank you guys for coming all the

990
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,439
Speaker 2: way to rural Scotland to see me, and you guys

991
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: are welcome back anytime. And now we're gonna move onto

992
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: the Scotch whiskey person of the evening, which is gonna.

993
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 3: Well, honestly, if you're sharing six different triple IPAs amongst

994
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 3: six people, it actually is not too difficult of a

995
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 3: task the accomplished. But man, this was I want to

996
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 3: just thank you so much because this is an amazing beer.

997
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 3: Like it's got the tropic little citrus notes going on,

998
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 3: but at the same time it's got the sharpness from

999
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 3: the hops. It's so incredibly fresh on a delightful beer.

1000
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 3: So thank you for sharing a special one from your

1001
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 3: beer fridge.

1002
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 1: See the interesting thing about drinking a great ipa sometimes

1003
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: that first sip can be a little biting on the

1004
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: alcohol content and then you have another sip and you're like, dang,

1005
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: wait a second, that just changed a whole lot and

1006
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: this beer did just that, and so they had the

1007
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 1: verdant triple IPA putty is a delight and one that

1008
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,760
Speaker 1: we don't have any exposure to back in the States.

1009
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 1: You gotta fly all the way to to freaking Scotland

1010
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: to enjoy. So thanks to Brandon for providing this delicious

1011
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 1: beer and this wonderful conversation.

1012
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 4: But that's going to do it.

1013
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: We'll have links to everything Brandon related in our show

1014
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: notes up on the website at howtomoney dot com, and

1015
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: we'll see you next time here at the how to

1016
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: Money Podcast. Until next time, Matt, best Friends Out, best

1017
00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 1: Friends Out the