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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They call me Bed. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 3: our super producer Andrew Triforce Howard. Most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Guys,

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Speaker 3: we've talked about it before, but you know how social

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Speaker 3: media has created a weird double life for people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's sick out as something we have to

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Speaker 4: contend with. It's hard, especially for younger folks who are

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Speaker 4: just seeing idealized versions of everybody they know and you know,

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Speaker 4: kind of forcing them to compare themselves. But it's honestly

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Speaker 4: not exclusive to young people. I fight with it myself,

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Speaker 4: as I'm sure you guys do from time to time.

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Speaker 2: The weirdest thing for me is that people will create

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Speaker 2: triple and quadruple and quintuple lives with varying social media

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Speaker 2: and other apps where they're interacting with people online as

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Speaker 2: varying personas with different names, different looks, different lifestyles. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: And don't get us started on online dating or do

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Speaker 3: because we have an episode coming out about that. It

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Speaker 3: is very much a conspiracy. Appreciate that that note too

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Speaker 3: about the as a Whitman said, we are vast. We

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Speaker 3: contain multitudes that can't be more literally true online and

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Speaker 3: even without the social media thing. Some lives look perfect

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Speaker 3: on paper, just like some laws look perfect on paper.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about how we're all feeling, but it

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Speaker 3: seems like, especially in this era of information, it's so

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Speaker 3: damningly easy to hear about another person's financial, romantic or

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Speaker 3: social success and think, WHOA they have it made right? Oh?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I mean to quote Biggie once again, I think

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Speaker 4: this came up recently. More money, more problems. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's cliche, because it's absolutely true. People get to a

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Speaker 4: place where they just kind of want more and more

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Speaker 4: and more, and then with that comes more and more

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Speaker 4: concessions and more and more kind of issues that they

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Speaker 4: have to contend with. It maybe didn't even know existed.

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Speaker 3: And past a certain threshold of financial success, it does

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Speaker 3: not positively affect your emotional success. We could call it.

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Speaker 3: There was a great study I remember seeing a Ted

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Speaker 3: talk but not the name of the paper, which proved

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Speaker 3: at the time that over a certain US dollar per

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Speaker 3: year threshold, money did not necessarily make you happier. It

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Speaker 3: makes you happier up to a point.

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Speaker 4: I think it's seventy, ok, is what I had heard.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, are somewhere around seventy, maybe a little north.

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Speaker 3: We'd have to check back with inflation. And really quickly

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Speaker 3: I realized that I didn't quote that big a thing

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Speaker 3: on this podcast. It was on Ridiculous History where we

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Speaker 3: had an episode on the nation of Bhutan and their

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Speaker 3: happiness based economy.

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Speaker 4: Uh so they kind of have all this stuff figured out,

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Speaker 4: but again not perfect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a good one. Everybody go to Bhuta

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Speaker 3: because we certainly can't out afford to do so ourselves.

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Speaker 2: Well, because the money thing doesn't change, well, I guess

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Speaker 2: it does affect like who you hang out with, who

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Speaker 2: you end up being able to meet, right and then

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Speaker 2: sure access, but it doesn't. The weird thing is that,

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Speaker 2: along with having multiple versions of ourselves on you know,

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Speaker 2: the Internet, there are multiple versions of ourselves that have

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Speaker 2: existed over time. If you think about stuff used to

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Speaker 2: be into when you were you know a younger person.

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Speaker 2: Of course, people used to know then, people used to date,

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Speaker 2: then people you were in love with. All of that

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Speaker 2: stuff is wrapped up and they're almost different, like almost

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Speaker 2: fully different versions of ourselves that exist in these eras

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 4: But even some of those things stick around, even if

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Speaker 4: they're not front and center.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the multi generational consequences of every version of you.

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Speaker 3: And let's also keep in mind one thing I appreciate

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Speaker 3: about that point is that the version of you that

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Speaker 3: interacts with other people currently may not be the version

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Speaker 3: of you that you think you are, because they're really

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Speaker 3: talking to their opinion about you that has largely been

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Speaker 3: determined by their own thing going on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: There, it's the kind of projecting on you.

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Speaker 2: The filters and projections thing that we've been talking about

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Speaker 2: over several episodes. Now this keeps coming up, just that

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Speaker 2: we project a lot of what we see in here

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Speaker 2: onto everything else.

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Speaker 3: I mean, classic human Right, you hear something you say, well,

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Speaker 3: what is how is that about me? Right? Thea the

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Speaker 3: old joke about the narcissist that says, hey, I learned

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Speaker 3: what a narcissist is, and I'm trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: how that applies to me.

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Speaker 4: And let me man explain that to you.

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Speaker 2: I think in some way it's less about narcissism and

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Speaker 2: more about remember how we talk about when you remember something,

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Speaker 2: it's the last time you remembered it. So it's almost

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Speaker 2: like when the last time you see a person, the

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Speaker 2: last time you have a conversation about a thing, It's

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Speaker 2: almost like with that person there really is, truly for

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Speaker 2: you a different version of what's being said or how

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Speaker 2: it's being said, or even I don't know the objects,

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Speaker 2: the physical objects that are being discussed, or the actions

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Speaker 2: that are taking place.

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Speaker 4: Well, and oftentimes too, when you see like maybe unhappy

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Speaker 4: marriages or relationships that deteriorate, it's because one or the

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Speaker 4: other have realized that they have given up some of

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Speaker 4: that past part of themselves and they are now kind

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Speaker 4: of pining for that time and their life, and some

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Speaker 4: people go to great lengths to get that back, whether

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Speaker 4: it be having an affair with an old lover from

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Speaker 4: that era or whatever. That is. The there's a big

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Speaker 4: draw to wanting to turn back the clock, like be

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Speaker 4: young again.

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Speaker 3: Excellent excellent segue, Noel. In tonight's episode, we're exploring a

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Speaker 3: tragic tale that true crime enthusiast may have heard of before,

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Speaker 3: but we'll find some extra twist along the way, and

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Speaker 3: that's what we're setting up tonight's question, what happened to

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Speaker 3: Andrene McDonald? Here are the facts, all right, for anybody

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Speaker 3: who's unaware. Who was Andrene McDonald.

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Speaker 4: Andrew McDonald was born on September twenty third of nineteen

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Speaker 4: eighty nine and Port Antonio, Jamaica, Andrene and Nicole McDonald.

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Speaker 4: She was the second of three daughters.

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Speaker 3: And Jamaica, port Antonio, technically Norwich District, Portland. Their life

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Speaker 3: there was tough growing up. The father later left for

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Speaker 3: England after serving in the Armed Forces. Lives in England. Now.

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Speaker 3: Something of about the life that they lived in childhood

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Speaker 3: forged great determination amid the siblings. They believed what we

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Speaker 3: call the American dream. Hard work and discipline can make

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Speaker 3: all the difference between failure and success. And from the jump,

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Speaker 3: Andrea MacDonald was highly driven and there in Norwich District, Portland.

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Speaker 3: Again Jamaica, not Oregon. We're going to be saying Jamaica

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Speaker 3: pretty often here. You've heard us say it because this

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Speaker 3: is a big part of the story. So our protagonist

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Speaker 3: graduates from high school in Jamaica in this area in

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Speaker 3: Norwich District, Portland, and is an academic powerhouse. She goes

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Speaker 3: on to earn her associate degree in marketing by the

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Speaker 3: time she's eighteen. And when she's there, right, she has

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Speaker 3: a boyfriend before, as many teenagers do. That's important to

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Speaker 3: the story. She also meets and falls in love with

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Speaker 3: a guy named Andre McDonald. It's about ten years older

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Speaker 3: than her. He's a fellow Jamaican kid. He's risen through

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Speaker 3: the ranks of the US Air Force. He's becoming a major.

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Speaker 3: His special special areas of focus are what Jaysak would

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Speaker 3: loosely call cyber because those guys are old.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cybersecurity, not what we used to call cyber yeah yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, but internet activities, monitoring and securing them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, early days for that kind of stuff, right, I mean,

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Speaker 4: in terms of like that being a specialty.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely forward facing for the Air Force at that point.

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Speaker 3: And you know, they have all kinds of toys to

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Speaker 3: play with. She and her husband spoiler, they hit it off,

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Speaker 3: they got married, that happened, they moved to Florida, and then,

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Speaker 3: you know, for anybody who has grown up in a

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Speaker 3: military family, or has had a partner who's in the military,

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Speaker 3: or if you yourself have served, you know that for

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Speaker 3: a great deal of your career, you kind of have

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Speaker 3: to go where they tell you to go. So they

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Speaker 3: didn't get to stay in Florida forever. They ended up

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Speaker 3: moving to Texas, right.

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Speaker 4: They moved to the very partially named Canyon Golf and

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Speaker 4: Wilderness Oak area of North Bay Are Texas or County

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Speaker 4: rather in San Antonio, Texas. Guys, what is going on

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Speaker 4: in the Canyon Golf and Wilderness Oak area? Everything?

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Speaker 3: I see a lot of internal O rhymes O sounds fascinants.

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Speaker 4: By the way, if you see it on paper. Speaking

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Speaker 4: of things on paper, they are bear is spelled like bexar.

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Speaker 3: So bx aar. And thanks to our fellow conspiracy realist

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Speaker 3: from Texas who wrote into us multiple times many years

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Speaker 3: ago to U kind fully correct us on that one

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Speaker 3: to clarify. We get it. Sometimes there's an X and

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Speaker 3: you just don't mention it. Oh, that's gonna have a

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Speaker 3: weird level to it later tonight.

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Speaker 2: Isn't a little strange.

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's just odd to me that they moved from Port Antonio,

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Speaker 2: Jamaica to San Antonio.

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Speaker 3: Texas, and that they're named Andrene and Andre.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that actually struck me a little lot as well. Guys.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's nothing to it, but it's still those

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Speaker 4: kind of synchronicities you can't help but notice them.

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Speaker 3: It's such a power couple thing too, you know, because

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Speaker 3: these folks do become a power couple in San Antonio.

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Speaker 3: Andreing goes on to earn a business administration degree in

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Speaker 3: finance from University of Texas, San Antonio, and you can

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Speaker 3: find interviews with her from local press, from local community initiatives.

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Speaker 3: One we found that I think really speaks to her

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Speaker 3: personality is an interview in her a character profile in

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Speaker 3: San Antonio Woman, where we learned some of her inspiration, right,

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Speaker 3: some of her foundational guiding principles, and honestly, she sounds

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Speaker 3: like a badass.

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Speaker 4: She seems like a tough cookie. She says, for me

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Speaker 4: to get a job, one has to be available. Someone

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Speaker 4: has to create a job. But she said, basically she

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Speaker 4: decided to create a job for herself at the young

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Speaker 4: age of twenty two. Talk about feeling like the stuff

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Speaker 4: on paper is making you feel like you're behind the

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Speaker 4: eight ball.

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Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, She knew that a college degree does

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Speaker 3: not necessarily guarantee a career. Shout out to all her

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Speaker 3: fellow English majors. So, like you said, Noel, twenty two

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Speaker 3: years old, A lot of people in twenty two are

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Speaker 3: farting around, flitting back and forth between, you know, trying

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Speaker 3: to find their true north. Not so with McDonald. She

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Speaker 3: founds a place called Starlight Homes, a community, a assisted

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Speaker 3: living facilitator, right close with real estate, close with recommending care.

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Speaker 3: And her reasoning was super sharp. Why would you pursue

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Speaker 3: a business like this? Why would you put so much

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Speaker 3: money in when you're twenty two years old? Her reasoning

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Speaker 3: was if I fail, I'm young, I could do something else,

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Speaker 3: which I wish someone had told us earlier.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And in that same article you can read about

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Speaker 2: how she would often travel back to Jamaica, where she

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Speaker 2: grew up, to do things like speak at graduations, you know,

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Speaker 2: to hang out with family and friends for specific business stuff.

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Speaker 2: So she was constantly I just think it's important to

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Speaker 2: mention her she was constantly going back and forth from

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Speaker 2: Jamaica to San Antonio, Texas.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she regularly returned to Jamaica for a lot of

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Speaker 3: philanthropic endeavors. She was also in many ways a one

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Speaker 3: woman army for her business, which she technically owned a

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Speaker 3: partnership with her husband. But let's remember being a US

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Speaker 3: Air Force major, it's a pretty time consuming job. So

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Speaker 3: she was running operations, human resources, she was running marketing.

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Speaker 3: She was pretty much responsible for steering the ship. And

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Speaker 3: this made her and her hubby a millionaires, maybe not

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Speaker 3: you know, billionaires, but doing very well for San Antonio.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting too to think that this you know,

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Speaker 4: fortune was made with what would seem like a pretty

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Speaker 4: benevolent and charitable business model, you know. I mean, if

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Speaker 4: you look up Starlight Holmes, it's basically ready made homes,

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Speaker 4: kind of geared towards the elderly, maybe with some subsidies

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Speaker 4: of some kind. I don't know exactly the deal, but

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Speaker 4: it would seem like it is meant to be a

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Speaker 4: positive resource, you know, folks that are entering the ends

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Speaker 4: of their lives.

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Speaker 2: It was really interesting if you look at the two

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Speaker 2: locations that they had on the map, they were just

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Speaker 2: kind of it looked like houses where they would have

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Speaker 2: people living in the house, the houses in the care

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Speaker 2: would be given to them. And it literally started with

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Speaker 2: like one person, and then there are over twenty people

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Speaker 2: that she was taking care of with you know, or

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Speaker 2: I guess they the couple the company was taking care

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Speaker 2: of between these two homes.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of this was informed by her mother's

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Speaker 3: career as a CNA certified nursing assistant and perhaps more

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Speaker 3: powerfully informed by watching how her in laws took care

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Speaker 3: of Andre's McDonald's grandmother. She had had to have her

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Speaker 3: left leg amputated due to an accident. And so Andrena

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Speaker 3: is looking at this and thinking, to your point, Noel,

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Speaker 3: how can I help people right? What is a good business?

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Speaker 3: And of course, yes, we know that assisted living and

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Speaker 3: nursing homes are riddled with corruption and abuse often here

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Speaker 3: in the United States. It does not appear to be

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Speaker 3: the case with Starlight homes. Everything wasn't perfect for the couple,

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Speaker 3: even though they are, you know, a power couple and

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Speaker 3: I'm sure the envy of many other San Antonians. They

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Speaker 3: had a daughter, special needs daughter named Elena, who's on

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Speaker 3: the autism spectrum and primarily nonverbal. So if this kid

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Speaker 3: see something, this kid can't really communicate what they have seen,

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Speaker 3: which will be important later. What we're saying is this

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Speaker 3: By her late twenties, Andrea M MacDonald had achieved the

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Speaker 3: kind of success most Americans dream about, ticking off every box.

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Speaker 3: You know, you got your dream marriage with your adonnas

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Speaker 3: or your dream girl. You've got an awesome job, you

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Speaker 3: are your own boss, and you're also an amazing powerlifter,

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Speaker 3: which I thought was pretty interesting her. She was driven

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Speaker 3: and goal oriented and you could set your own watch

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Speaker 3: to her schedules. She was she would always be Iron

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Speaker 3: Tribe fitness at five thirty am through some big powerless

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Speaker 3: they called her the Beast.

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Speaker 4: Still don't feel horrible, but now I've been trying to

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Speaker 4: gym a little bit more. But I do understand that

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Speaker 4: like that drive to you know, have that control and

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Speaker 4: that agency over your body. It seems very like in

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Speaker 4: keeping and in step with her overall drive.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, man, oh yeah. And we know we're talking

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Speaker 3: about this established routine five thirty ish am at the gym,

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Speaker 3: to the point where if she was going to miss

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Speaker 3: a day, she would call them and let them know, Like,

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Speaker 3: if you're a regular at the waffle house, the staff

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Speaker 3: is going to miss you. I've got waffle house on

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Speaker 3: my mind. Sorry, guys, just get plunch.

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Speaker 4: They're very kind of waffle house. They definitely remember you

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Speaker 4: and say hello. So this established this routine that she

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Speaker 4: had and a sort of predictability to her movements. So

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Speaker 4: Ardie McDonald was last seen alive about seven pm on

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Speaker 4: February twenty eighth, when she along with her husband and

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Speaker 4: then seven year old daughter, We're seen heading home.

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Speaker 3: Says twenty nineteen. And the next day, March first, twenty nineteen,

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Speaker 3: she has reported missing, no passport activity, no cell phone,

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Speaker 3: nothing unusual on the credit cards. So what happened? Here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy. Unfortunately, as any true crime aficionado

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Speaker 3: in the audience Tonight knows, the disappearance of Andrew McDonald

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Speaker 3: has been solved. It's a tale of absolute brutality and heartbreak,

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Speaker 3: and you can hear massively exploitative versions of it in

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Speaker 3: all sorts of programs. Forty eight hours freely available online,

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Speaker 3: you can watch it. And I want to ask you

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Speaker 3: guys about this. I think we've spoken about in previous evenings,

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Speaker 3: but do do you guys notice how when a true

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Speaker 3: crime enterprise is being exploitative, they tend to refer to

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Speaker 3: women simply by their first names.

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Speaker 4: Yea, I saw an article the other day about how

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Speaker 4: that's a thing in general.

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Speaker 3: With politics and politics.

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Speaker 4: And I felt kind of awful that it had never

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Speaker 4: occurred to me in that exact way. But to answer

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Speaker 4: your question, and yes, I think that is maybe a

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Speaker 4: bigger problem even than just exploitative reporting and true crime.

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Speaker 4: But for sure, that's a thing.

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Speaker 2: It is a little weird. I think it is hard

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Speaker 2: sometimes to do storytelling when you've got a husband and

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Speaker 2: wife not to use their first names and not include

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Speaker 2: their last name every time you say their names. So

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I think it might be a storytelling thing,

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Speaker 2: at least in this like with forty eight Hours in particular.

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Speaker 3: Well in this case, I would agree, just from a

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Speaker 3: writing perspective, you've got two people with the same last name,

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Speaker 3: so it's difficult, such like if you were talking about

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Speaker 3: Hillary and William Clinton, you would at some point have

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Speaker 3: to just go by first name. But what I'm talking

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Speaker 3: about in the Exploitati version really is the emotional manipulation

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Speaker 3: or even the diminishing to the larger point, you're raising

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Speaker 3: all the diminishing of women's work by saying Hillary instead

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Speaker 3: of you know, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Things like

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Speaker 3: that not a defense of the Clintons and whatsoever. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: there's a larger context of this we'll explore in a moment,

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Speaker 3: but for now we have to look at events behind

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Speaker 3: the curtain to see what led to her disappearance and

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Speaker 3: later public realization. One we know now Andrew McDonald was murdered.

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Speaker 3: Two The United States has convicted her husband, Andrea McDonald,

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Speaker 3: of the murder, and the charge was manslaughter. He had

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Speaker 3: some other charges along the way to that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but

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Speaker 4: I think it's just app the way you run up

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Speaker 4: the beginning been on paper, you know, it would seem

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Speaker 4: cut and dry, like we know what happened, but there's

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Speaker 4: just so much more to it than what's on paper,

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Speaker 4: much like the true lives of people hiding behind their

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Speaker 4: glossy you know Instagram accounts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you can follow our instagrams. They're the opposite

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Speaker 3: of glossy, you know, and they're matt Finish. Yes, there,

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Speaker 3: Matte Finish. If you if we go back to the

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Speaker 3: day of the reported disappearance, you can see a lot

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Speaker 3: of you can see a lot of contemporaneous reporting from

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Speaker 3: regional news affiliates and local media because again, this is

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Speaker 3: a prominent figure in society, and one of the things

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Speaker 3: that stands out, you know, a lot of this reporting

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Speaker 3: is the sheer concern of the community, the amount of

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Speaker 3: people in the community who were deeply disturbed. Again, could

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Speaker 3: set or watch by this lady's routine. There's a great

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Speaker 3: interview series with Matthew Seedorff writing for News for San Antonio.

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Speaker 3: The coaches thought it was crazy that McDonald did not

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Speaker 3: show up to exercise at Irontribe Fitness that early Friday morning,

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Speaker 3: because she's there all the time, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the interviews are first, yes, about how they're very concerned

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Speaker 3: and they want to help find her. And then you

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Speaker 3: notice that all the coaches are so impressed with her

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Speaker 3: powerlifting again the beast. The beast is never happy over

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Speaker 3: their first set, you know what I mean, She's got

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Speaker 3: to lift more. They said, you know, we saw the

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Speaker 3: people said, we saw our Thursday evening going home to

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Speaker 3: see her daughter. If she wasn't going to be there Friday,

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Speaker 3: she would call us in advance. She has not. We

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Speaker 3: are worried, and let's be honest, I think a lot

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Speaker 3: of us have people in our lives. Thank you, We'll

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Speaker 3: keep the cat, and a lot of us have people

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Speaker 3: in our lives who cats and cats and animals and

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Speaker 3: entities that are more consistent or predictable than others. You know,

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Speaker 3: you might have a friend like maybe this is a

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Speaker 3: dude thing, But I have friends I don't talk to

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Speaker 3: for years at a time, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: I check in, they'll tell me something's important. One buddy

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Speaker 3: of mine was like, I had heard from two years

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Speaker 3: and then he just hit me up with the text

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Speaker 3: he said, and sent a picture and he said, beat

375
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Speaker 3: me here, triforce, He said, the round and got married. Lmao.

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Speaker 3: It was true.

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Speaker 4: I hope you're good. Yeah, But then you have those

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Speaker 4: other friends that like, you know, maybe we'll call every

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Speaker 4: single Friday at the exact same time and to the

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Speaker 4: point where maybe you know everyone's different, but that friend

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Speaker 4: not calling yes will be a big old red flag,

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Speaker 4: even if you're not like the worrying type.

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Speaker 3: And so here we arrive at one of the myths

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Speaker 3: that we've addressed in the past about reporting a missing person.

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Speaker 3: You do not have to wait twenty four hours. It

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Speaker 3: does not depend upon the person's age, their socioeconomic status,

387
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Speaker 3: does not matter where you saw them last as a

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Speaker 3: matter of fact, that twenty four hour window is probably

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Speaker 3: the best time to start searching for someone. And so

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Speaker 3: the local law enforcement, the sheriff and the deputies at

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Speaker 3: Bear County are called in. They go to the couple's home.

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Speaker 3: They conduct a welfare check, and this is where they

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Speaker 3: discover increasingly disturbing things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is on the day she disappeared, on

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Speaker 2: March first, twenty nineteen. So the friends and everybody that

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Speaker 2: were concerned actually went and got Andrine's mom, Maureen Smith,

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Speaker 2: and brought her to the house. And that's when they

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Speaker 2: called the police. That's when the Sheriff's office shows up

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Speaker 2: and they start doing a walk through the house with

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Speaker 2: Andre not being present currently.

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Speaker 3: Right he is, he is not on the scene. All

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Speaker 3: in all, they end up executing two search warrants. Without

403
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Speaker 3: getting too far in the details. Both of these warrants

404
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 3: were warranted during their investigations in Andrene's car. And you

405
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Speaker 3: know how marriages people are sharing cars and stuff. They

406
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Speaker 3: uncover a shovel and acts work gloves, and gasoline to

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Speaker 3: containers of gasoline. Those are curious things. It might remind

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Speaker 3: some of us if you've ever spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: time in a grocery store or any place with a

410
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Speaker 3: what's that thing called little treadmill for checkout where the

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Speaker 3: stuff rolls down.

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Speaker 4: The conveyor belt, yes, yes, the cave belt.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. Yeah. So it's a fun game to play

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Speaker 3: if you're ever waiting in line, kind of imagining the

415
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Speaker 3: stuff people buy as clues to their lives. Right, what's

416
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 3: an interesting eclectic mix of stuff?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean if the guy in front of you

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Speaker 4: by a bunch of work gloves, heavy duty rope, and

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Speaker 4: a bag of lime and a shovel, you might wrinkle

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Speaker 4: your nose at that a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Right, But that's exactly what he did. He bought all

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Speaker 2: of those things in one go, and he had a

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00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 2: messy There's a receipt that you can find and a

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00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 2: handwritten note about like things I need to get from

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Speaker 2: either Low's or home depot.

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Speaker 4: And it's murder stuff, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Including a hand axe and a big old axe. And

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Speaker 2: you're just like m.

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Speaker 3: I already had the hammer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you need big bags also with all of

431
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Speaker 2: this stuff, hefty bags.

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Speaker 3: Now, tell me about your burn barrels.

433
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well the burn barrel is really important because

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Speaker 2: what they found on that first day on March first,

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Speaker 2: So this is what we're talking about here, and finding

436
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: this stuff is just it's like a couple of days

437
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: later when they find this stuff. I think it's March

438
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: second when they find this. But on that first day

439
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 2: when the sheriff's office shows up, they and the family

440
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 2: and the sheriff's office find blood and hair on like

441
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 2: a light switch in the bathroom. And in the backyard

442
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: they find a small what appears to be impromptu little

443
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: not burn pit, but like a burn pile where something

444
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: was piled up and then burned.

445
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 3: Like if you were cleaning your yard and you burned track,

446
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 3: like burned leaves. But stuff in there is not leaves.

447
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 2: No, yeah, exactly. There was clothing. There was a zipper

448
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: that the mother identified as being a zipper from one

449
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: of Andrene's blouses.

450
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 3: This does not look no, it doesn't. There were also

451
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 3: cleaning supplies recently purchased. The point about buying those items

452
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 3: all at once is that if they are purchased separately

453
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 3: over time, these are all innocuous. Sometimes you need gloves,

454
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 3: sometimes you need an axe or some gas. But buying

455
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: them all at once is we'll see what happens to

456
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: the receipt look altogether, there's a damning context, and so

457
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 3: authorities begin to believe that this is not someone skipping town,

458
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 3: which does sometimes happen. But usually when someone skips town,

459
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 3: you're gonna find them sooner, yeah or later.

460
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, they usually would take their person id and

461
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 2: you know, important things. If she did leave, the only

462
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 2: thing she took was her cell phone, and she didn't

463
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 2: let her mother, her husband, or her daughter or any

464
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 2: of her friends or family know where she was going, which,

465
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 2: you know, if you think about somebody like Andrina, at

466
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: least the way she's portrayed, like in that magazine we

467
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: mentioned where she was written up all the people around here.

468
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 4: And yeah, it just seems, well, she's buttoned up if

469
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 4: she was, you know, like if if she was gonna

470
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 4: go like that, she would have taken some key items.

471
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 4: If she was leaving her husband, you know, there are

472
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 4: definite signs for that she would I mean, unless that

473
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: is to say, though, unless there was some significant abuse

474
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 4: and she truly just had to drop everything and leave

475
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 4: in the night. There are scenarios where that absolutely absolutely

476
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 4: because there's horrible domestic situations, agreed.

477
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 3: And that's a great point. We also know the previous

478
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: patterns of behavior which are not necessarily predicted to be fair.

479
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: But we know that when she was returning to Jamaica,

480
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 3: which was by far her main destination homeway from home,

481
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: she let people know both in Texas and in Jamaica

482
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: where she was going to be a when, because that

483
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: was part of what she was doing. So if somebody

484
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: had to skip down, how do we explain the blood,

485
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 3: how do we explain the supplies that were around the items,

486
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: the fire, the unburned zipper.

487
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: The stuff that he bought the day after, right right

488
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,479
Speaker 2: the day after your wife goes missing, and when you

489
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: get when you are talking to the sheriff's office, you're

490
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: weird and cagey about it and just like, yeah, I

491
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 2: don't know, she's not here, and then made up a

492
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: story about her being in the hospital. I don't know.

493
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,479
Speaker 3: Even before that, the authorities started to believe something was

494
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 3: very up and they were like, we got to look

495
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 3: at this. Andre mcdonnald guy and Bear County Sheriff's Office

496
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 3: deputies had already detained him that Saturday for what they

497
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: called mental evaluation.

498
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: By well, yeah, of course, because he went to a

499
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 2: gun store there he was under investigation. Well yeah, they

500
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: pick him up for an evaluation because because earlier in

501
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: the day, on March second, that's when he's on surveillance

502
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: camera at Low's buying all of that stuff we talked about.

503
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 2: Right then at two pm, he's under a surveillance an

504
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: undercover officer is watching his house basically, and they watch

505
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 2: him drive to a local gun store and purchase a

506
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: nine millimeter and ammunition attempt to purchase. Well, no, he does.

507
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 2: He purchases it, but then he leaves the store without

508
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 2: taking the gun.

509
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 3: And leaves his ID behind.

510
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's just who does that? That's bizarre?

511
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: Andre McDonald, Well, something is going on with this guy

512
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: where clearly something's wrong, right, and he's also a pretty

513
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 2: high level military officer.

514
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 4: So which, by the way, I was just gonna ask you, guys,

515
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 4: does that give you more way more leeway when it

516
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 4: comes to purchasing a firearm as a citizen, Like it

517
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 4: doesn't supersede the waiting periods or anything like that. Right,

518
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 4: you don't have like any special treatment because you're a

519
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 4: ranking military person.

520
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 3: Shouldn't. You can get as signed weaponry, but that's from

521
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 3: you and buying.

522
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 4: Something I didn't think. So I was just wondering, but

523
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 4: it would seem that he didn't have to. I don't

524
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: know what the laws are there, but he did. There

525
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 4: was no waiting period for he got spooked. It was

526
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 4: seeming and it's an almost behavior. Up to this point,

527
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 4: Bear County sheriffs have not named McDonald as a suspect,

528
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: but they are noting that he is extremely uncooperative, seems

529
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 4: to be not super worried about where his wife is

530
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 4: and when they When different people ask him about this,

531
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 4: he gives them different stories, which is also going to

532
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 4: come into play later.

533
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: No spoilers. Eventually under question, I don't know how much

534
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: we want to get into the step by step with this,

535
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 3: but eventually he admits, Okay, my wife and I had

536
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 3: an argument. We visited our tax dude, basically the person

537
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: who prepares our taxes. We were arguing over our business,

538
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 3: which would both own.

539
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 4: I left.

540
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 3: I left during the argument. I run away during arguments,

541
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 3: that kind of guy. And I went and got some

542
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 3: gas and just cool off, get some space, clear my head.

543
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 3: I have no idea where my wife could be, he

544
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: eventually told the police after you know, saying what was it?

545
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: She was in the hospital floated the idea that she

546
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 3: might be out of town.

547
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's weird. That hospital thing brings me out

548
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 2: to you guys. And that's part of this whole thing,

549
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 2: because it was on that first day, right when she

550
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: was missing and he was at work. He had taken

551
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: his daughter to school or you know, taken her to

552
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: wherever she was going early in the morning, then went

553
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: to work. When he got home, the sheriff's office was

554
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: already there, you know, basically with the rest of his

555
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: family looking for his wife. And he was like, oh,

556
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know where she is. He thought, oh, well,

557
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 2: she gets migraines. Maybe she's in the hospital. And he

558
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: goes to the hospital asks the person at the front, hey,

559
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 2: is McDonald in here, like just asking for a McDonald.

560
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 2: The person at the front says, yeah, there is a

561
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: McDonald in here, and he goes, oh, okay, and then

562
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: he leaves, but he doesn't check to see if that

563
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: McDonald is his wife. And he goes back and he

564
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: tells that his family, his wife's mother, Yeah, she's in

565
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: the hospital.

566
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 4: What That's another example of.

567
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 2: So the mom calls a hospital and the hospital is like, no,

568
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: that is not No, your daughter is not here that

569
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: is a whole different person with the last name McDonald.

570
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: And then immediately after that he has for an attorney

571
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 2: he doesn't want to talk about it anymore.

572
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 4: Woof.

573
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 3: And we know that this kind of behavior increasingly added

574
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: up to a picture that does not look good for

575
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 3: either member of this couple, particularly Andrew McDonald. Now they

576
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: are thinking less in terms of disappearance and more in

577
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: terms of a fatality. So when McDonald Andre McDonald is arrested,

578
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 3: he is initially arrested, not on suspicion of this murder,

579
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: not officially, he's initially arrested for evidence tampering because, going

580
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 3: back to the receipt we mentioned, he had allegedly torn

581
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 3: up the receipt, the physical receipt he had for these items,

582
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: all of which had been recently purchased. And it's still

583
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 3: not quite a red flag yet, but it is tampering

584
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 3: with evidence, and it's definitely on the gradient toward a

585
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 3: red flag.

586
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 4: With all the learning that was going on, Why the

587
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 4: hell didn't he burn it? He just tore it up

588
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 4: and then they pieced it back together. That's so sloppy

589
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 4: and bizarre.

590
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 2: Well, it is, really, it is really weird because it's

591
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 2: on March second when they find that stuff in his trunk, right,

592
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: it's on March second when the search warrant occurs, and

593
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: that's when he buys the gun, and he gets picked

594
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: up right and gets evaluated. Then on March third, they

595
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,880
Speaker 2: arrest him because he's basically going to walk free again

596
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 2: and they can't let him do that, so they at

597
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: least get him on that evidence tampering because they already

598
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: thought somebody whose wife is missing and is buying all

599
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: these things the next day, that's disposing of a body,

600
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 2: and that's all that could be. That's what at least

601
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department was thinking.

602
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 3: And he initially admitted to buying these cleaning supplies. He's

603
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 3: being led away by deputies. He reportedly kept his statement

604
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 3: very short. He said, I love my daughter, I love

605
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 3: my family. That's it. He denied any involvement with his

606
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: wife's disappearance. He got released on bond. Meanwhile, all the

607
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 3: while the search Frandrine McDonald continued.

608
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 4: And we're back, guys. This stuff is so damning, Like

609
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: every piece of evidence that has come up, it's borderline

610
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 4: makes you think was someone setting this guy up? Like

611
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 4: how could somebody be this stupid and and committing this

612
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 4: kind of crime. And I'm not suggesting that, but it's

613
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 4: just good lord.

614
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 3: It's very hot dog story. Yeah, I think you should leave.

615
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 3: Uh huh yeah.

616
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: Well, well, to my mind analyzing it, you know, from

617
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 2: this high up, in this far away in time, it

618
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: does seem like there was a lot of panic happening

619
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: here and that it wasn't fully planned out. It was

620
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: Oh crap, what do I do now? Oh crap, Well,

621
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 2: I I guess I gotta buy these things. Oh crap,

622
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: I guess I need a gun because if it goes bad.

623
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 4: Or whatever, be meditated the cover up, it might have

624
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: happened in a big old blow up, knock down, drag

625
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 4: out fight.

626
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: And that's not according to what he eventually says in

627
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: any either trial or anything. That's just what I'm well,

628
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: actually does kind of line up with what he's.

629
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,680
Speaker 3: Saying he does. Yeah, it's pretty apparent. I think that

630
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: this was not This was not a plan decades in

631
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 3: the making, you know what I mean. This was not

632
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 3: a pre medicate, premeditated execution or operation. But we do know,

633
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 3: if we go back to this twenty nineteen era, we

634
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: do know that the Sheriff of Bear County grows increasingly

635
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: certain that Andre McDonald has for some reason murdered his wife.

636
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 3: He had killed her during an argument, and then, you know,

637
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 3: however that argument transpired, he panicked and attempted to dispose

638
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: of her body, and then attempted to erase the evidence

639
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 3: of his crimes, and every attempt he made only again

640
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 3: added to suspicion and made him a more prominent suspect

641
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: in the case. After six months of investigation, the community

642
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 3: members are still searching for this much beloved person, and

643
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 3: one of the people searching stumbles across scattered remains a

644
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: cadaver on a private ranch six miles away from the

645
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 3: McDonald family home. It's messed up. The authorities have to

646
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: resort to dental records to confirm identity, and those records

647
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 3: confirm this is indeed the body of Andrew McDonald. At

648
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: this point, Bear Counting closes in. Andre McDonald is charged

649
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 3: with first degree murder. It's all over the news. We

650
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 3: know that sometimes getting to trial in a court of

651
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 3: law takes longer than getting to trial in public opinion,

652
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: so it might surprise some of us to learn that

653
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:01,280
Speaker 3: Andre McDonald doesn't go to trial until twenty twenty three.

654
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is kind of odd that there would be

655
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 2: that much of a backlog that you can't even get,

656
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,879
Speaker 2: you know, to a trial unless they were doing some

657
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: kind of investigation still and they had to wait for

658
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: that to conclude before they could take him to trial.

659
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 4: Just seems so open and shut, you know. I mean,

660
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 4: but again, we're not, you know, the ones prosecuting cases

661
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: like this, So perhaps there is something to what you're.

662
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: Saying that, Well, if you've got a body that's that

663
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: decomposed and you don't have proof, like, how do you

664
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: convince a jury that he is definitely the guy that

665
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 2: killed his wife? Right?

666
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: Because technically all the physical evidence we've talked about would

667
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: be deemed circumstantial, all of that stuff that he.

668
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 2: Bought, right exactly, Yeah, it doesn't prove anything in it,

669
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: and any defense attorney could probably throw that stuff away.

670
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 2: So what you needed is, I'm assuming a DA would

671
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: say we need to find something that's really going to

672
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 2: make this.

673
00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 3: Stick Dnair confession. I mean, a defense might not be

674
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 3: able to sway the jury against the conviction. There there's

675
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: a lot more context to it, I think, but the

676
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 3: possibilities there and yeah, DA would be much more happy

677
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: with evidence that was conclusive rather than circumstantial. I mean,

678
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 3: the prosecution establishes McDonald has a history of domestic violence,

679
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 3: which we'll get to in a moment. They also establish

680
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 3: all the circumstantial evidence the timeline we're talking about, and

681
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 3: the scrutiny shows that despite the public image of this

682
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: power couple, this amazing life, things had not been going

683
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 3: well at the McDonald homestead for a little while now.

684
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: So, on the sixth day of the murder trial, nearly

685
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 4: four years after Andrea's death, Andre McDonald detailed his version

686
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 4: of events. This included the sharing of text messages that

687
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 4: were retrieved from his phone showing that she had likely

688
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 4: been having an affair.

689
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 3: Or he believed she was. Allegations of infidel that's right,

690
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: she was still The big point of contention between the

691
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: couple and at this juncture was that we mentioned Andrew

692
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: McDonald grew up in Jamaica and had previous boyfriends. Andre

693
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 3: McDonald was intensely concerned about Andrene being in contact with

694
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 3: one of her ex boyfriends, a businessman named Aubin au

695
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 3: b Yn Hall, who was also from Port Antonio, Jamaica.

696
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,439
Speaker 3: Oh and what his part about leaving to go get

697
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 3: gas in the night of the argument that checks out.

698
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 3: He's on camera doing.

699
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 2: That, and that's when the text chain was happening. That's

700
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,760
Speaker 2: when Andrene says, quote, if you bring up Auben again,

701
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: I will divorce you myself. And then he responds, I

702
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 2: don't care if you get a divorce. You brought Auben

703
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: into our life, right.

704
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 3: And one of the some of the high octing gas

705
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 3: on the fire here is that Andrine had gotten tattoos recently.

706
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 3: One was the initial A stylistically tattooed on her on

707
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 3: her hand and that cool little part between the thumb

708
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: and the pointer finger, and then a date tattooed on

709
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: her wrist. Audre is good at the internet, so he

710
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: does the digging, you know, the obsessive partner digging, and

711
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 3: he finds that the guy he considers his romantic rival, Aubin,

712
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 3: has the same tattoo.

713
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: Right here on like on his throat, the big A.

714
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 2: And it's the exact same it's.

715
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 4: The same style. It's like a twist in a noir,

716
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 4: you know. I mean, it's the moment that you realize

717
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 4: what's happening. It all comes into full focus. And this

718
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 4: guy was clearly a very jealous man. He'd already made

719
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 4: ultimatums about the stuff, and yeah, it was well.

720
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: Also in a court of law that would still be circumstantially.

721
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 3: You can't get mad at people for tattoos. But if

722
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 3: you're a partner and you're already worried about something, just

723
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 3: imagine if the love of your life you getting a

724
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: tiff with them and then you see, oh, they've got

725
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: your tattoos. Oh they got oh matching tatty makes it

726
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: sound even dirtier.

727
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because it's not just one tattoo, it's multiple tattoos.

728
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: And if if you can just put yourself in that position,

729
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: not to like take sides in any of this stuff,

730
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 2: but just imagine being the partner in that. You can

731
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: be grumpy, that's what I'm not grumpy. You would be

732
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: betrayed and feel horrible that you would feel. It would

733
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 2: be like a different it would be like a type

734
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 2: of death.

735
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 4: It's level, it's true.

736
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 2: But so her second tattoo that she gets and her

737
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 2: husband doesn't know this at the time, she gets it

738
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: on her wrist fourteen three seventy six, and Andrea was

739
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: unsure what it was. Turns out it's the other dude's birthday,

740
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: so the fourteenth of March nineteen seventy six.

741
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's pretty messy too, to be honest.

742
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 3: And I like that we're unanimously nined on this point

743
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 3: because this is not victim blaming. This is understanding the

744
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 3: perspective of another person, I knowing that is still circumstantial

745
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 3: in the court of law. I think it's fair to

746
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 3: say that anybody in a committed relationship already with problems

747
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 3: would be over a very bad moon about this kind

748
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 3: of activity, for sure.

749
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,319
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's just really important to note that finding out

750
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: about this extramarital affair or whatever was going on there,

751
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: which was at least according to several of Andrean's friends confirmed. Yeah,

752
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 2: but it didn't happen just before she was killed, right.

753
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 3: Just before the disappearance. Yeah it was it was years. Yeah, yeah,

754
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,280
Speaker 3: it was quite a while before. But this did upset

755
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 3: the balance of the marriage. Andre was convinced his wife

756
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: was cut holding him with her earlier boyfriend, and she

757
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: threatened divorce, you know, unless she promised to do the following,

758
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: cut off contact with this guy, even when and if

759
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: she travels back to Port Antonio, cover up all those

760
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 3: tattoos that she gets and promises never ever to travel

761
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: to Jamaica without him, without Andre McDonald. These concerns seem

762
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 3: to smooth the waters a bit temporarily. It's what we

763
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: will call a band aid, But as time goes on,

764
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 3: they're still arguing about other things. They're arguing about businesses.

765
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 3: Because now this guy is clocking in right now, he

766
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 3: is always going to assume there are secrets, and he

767
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 3: claims that she opens a second business behind his back.

768
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 3: She keeps it a secret from him for more than

769
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 3: a year, and this brings more threats of divorce and

770
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 3: also he from his perspective, Andre McDonald is saying, look,

771
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 3: we partnered on this first business. She's taking funds from

772
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 3: what we do to start her own second business. So

773
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: essentially this my wife is robbing me. That the phrase.

774
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 4: Business as well, it would seem yeah, that's what he said.

775
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 2: It's not great. It wouldn't be great if that were

776
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: actually the fact. But I don't know how much of

777
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: that is. You know, was established. I guess through discovery

778
00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: during the trial that was like, yes, this is definitely happening.

779
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 2: Here is the business. She was using these funds to

780
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 2: do whatever we don't have all those facts. We have

781
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: we have what was reported from most of the transcripts

782
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: from the trial right about a lot of that stuff,

783
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 2: but it's not in full.

784
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: And we don't have Andrea McDonald's testimony.

785
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 2: Exactly right, So we don't know fully what was happening.

786
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 2: This is this guy's opinion. There is stuff from there.

787
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 2: The tax who was it? It was their tax preparer

788
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: that they were using together, right, right, then ended up

789
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: coming up with a lot of that stuff. But theoretically,

790
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: what would that what could that mean? You guys, if

791
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: she's got a secondary.

792
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 4: Business, she's working our way towards escape.

793
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 2: Like divorce or or breaking the yeah, the thing into

794
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 2: like theoretically.

795
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 4: Having her own thing.

796
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 3: That's where Yeah, that's that's where they talk about the

797
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 3: phrase that she would have used or maybe this is

798
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 3: you know, people quote each other or misquote and misconstrue

799
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 3: each other all the time in arguments. So we we

800
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: can read a few tea leaves in some of Audrey

801
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 3: McDonald's court statements at the trial. He says, quote, she

802
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 3: became extremely angry at the thought of us splitting the business,

803
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: by which I think they mean taking that first business

804
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 3: and splitting it in Twain.

805
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 2: Issues the starlight homes Yeah.

806
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 3: And he says, she charges into the room to confront me.

807
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,840
Speaker 3: She comes right up in my face. At that moment,

808
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,880
Speaker 3: she spat her spits, he says, in my face. So

809
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: at that point I grabbed her, and I think we

810
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 3: had a clash of heads, and I think it opened

811
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: up a cut somewhere on her face. And the rest

812
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 3: of his testimony is frankly quite disturbing because he is

813
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: describing in his mind accidentally killing someone but definitely meaning

814
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 3: to beat the snot out of them. He talks about

815
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 3: how she falls over and he kicks her twice, and

816
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 3: on the second kick he hears a wheezing coming out

817
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: of her. Hears the footsteps of what turns out to

818
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: be their daughter, who is detail Yeah, may have witnessed

819
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: the scene, he says. He argued in court that he

820
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 3: only struck her not because he's a domestic abuser, but

821
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 3: he only struck her because he was fearful that she

822
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: would harm him. He was frightened of her physical prowess

823
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 3: as a powerlifter.

824
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 2: She is significantly taller than him and looks well, you

825
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: don't see a lot of him on Instagram, you know,

826
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: being super strong. But her Instagram is still up and

827
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: you can still find it, and she she was strong

828
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 2: as well. I can imagine him being intimidated at least,

829
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 2: but worried that she's gonna kill him or I don't know, I.

830
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it's cuily. It doesn't matter in the context

831
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 4: of things. But like, we can't we weren't in the room.

832
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 4: We can't. We can't even really speculate on the ferocity

833
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 4: you know, of an exchange.

834
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 3: Like this, Right, we only given that the only witness

835
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: is someone largely nonverbal. Right, The only non involved witness

836
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 3: there physically the child.

837
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 4: Just to remind me that she was on the spectrum

838
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:58,080
Speaker 4: like to an extreme degree.

839
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and we're hearing. We're hearing someone choosing to

840
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 3: confess to a murder and then choosing the way in

841
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 3: which they confess it. Now, was Andrening in great shape?

842
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely power lifter. Does hype matter that much in a

843
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 3: fight only if you're fighting with boxing rules or something

844
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 3: that can strange your activity. But that is what he said.

845
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 3: He said that he was frightened and he did not

846
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: He meant to hit her to protect himself, but he

847
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 3: didn't mean to enter life.

848
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 4: It would seem to that wouldn't be surprised if he

849
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,280
Speaker 4: was coached to set the scene in this fashion.

850
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 3: Oh that's a great point, Noel, because he did have

851
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 3: a defense team, and he lawyered up very quickly when

852
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 3: the sheriffs initially contacted him. So he tells the court

853
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 3: he puts their daughter back to bed, and after you know,

854
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 3: he calms the kid down and puts her to bed.

855
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 4: He returns only to find right that has happened.

856
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:00,760
Speaker 3: Now instead of calling nine, one.

857
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 4: Dumps her body in a field.

858
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Christ take her, takes her clothing and burns it.

859
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 3: And also I would assume you guys told me. I

860
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 3: would assume this is at the point where he also

861
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 3: captures the phone, right.

862
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:18,760
Speaker 4: At least imagine.

863
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 3: So yeah, So with all this, I mean, it's very

864
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: hard for us to hear an argument that this is circumstantial,

865
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 3: because it's legal to buy all all those items at

866
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 3: one point or another. It's also legal to buy a

867
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 3: gun and leave it in the store, or to go

868
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:37,399
Speaker 3: to a store not by a gun.

869
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, I get I get caught up on this sometimes, guys.

870
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,240
Speaker 4: I'm interested to hear your thoughts, like, you know, yes,

871
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 4: those things create this like seemingly sure a sense of

872
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 4: what happened, and yet they are considered circumstantial. I'm just

873
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 4: wondering what that being considered circumstantial and it admissible or

874
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 4: whatever for direct you know, conviction. What protects does that

875
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 4: offer us from that being misused? Because this just seems

876
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 4: like an example where it should be a slam dunk

877
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 4: because of these things. But no, it's circumstantial. I was

878
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 4: wondering what the idea of circumstantial evidence, like, where does

879
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 4: it actually protect the innocent? I don't know, it's maybe

880
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:19,360
Speaker 4: all at home think about it. It's just something that

881
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: I get caught up on sometimes.

882
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, let us know what you think fill a conspiracy realist,

883
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 3: I believe that's a great question. I mean, you could see,

884
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: we know in the past circumstantial evidence has led to

885
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:36,399
Speaker 3: wrongful convictions. Right, A kid who maybe buys a cell

886
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 3: phone from someone who's fencing cell phone, so that cell

887
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 3: phone was from a murder victim.

888
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 4: Sure, but why didn't this circumstantial evidence on its own?

889
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 4: It seemed like it required the confession.

890
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're absolutely right. I mean

891
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 3: it goes back to the burden of proof, right, What

892
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 3: is beyond a reasonable doubt, what is a reasonable out?

893
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 3: The jury Eventually, based on this discourse, they find McDonald

894
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: guilty not a first degree murder to the earlier point,

895
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: but of manslaughter. And like you're saying, it's primarily due

896
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 3: to his testimony in court, Yeah.

897
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,319
Speaker 2: And we should have mention there too. According to some

898
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 2: of the jurors after the fact, they were split down

899
00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 2: the middle six and six for manslaughter or murder, and

900
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 2: nobody thought he was innocent, nobody thought he was self defense.

901
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: They were just like, no, this dude killed his wife,

902
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 2: but do we charge him with murder or manslaughter because

903
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: of the situation surrounding, you know, whatever was happening and

904
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 2: the moment of panic and all that other stuff like

905
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: how much do we how much do we weigh that?

906
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: And eventually, and at least according to two jurors that

907
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,839
Speaker 2: are interviewed for that forty eight hours episode, they went

908
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 2: with manslaughter because they could not get the other six

909
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: people to agree with murder.

910
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also another ten gentile twist here. A few days,

911
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 3: I think, like two days forty eight hours before the trial,

912
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,520
Speaker 3: he texts family members and talks about this, but kind

913
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 3: of like getting his story straight to them via text,

914
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,279
Speaker 3: in what some called a move to make sure he

915
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:25,319
Speaker 3: could steer the conversation towards manslaughter rather than murder. Either way,

916
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 3: he is sentenced. He gets twenty years in prison, where

917
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 3: he remains at the time of this recording. The public

918
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 3: as well as Andrew McDonald's family not happy with the verdict.

919
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 3: Furious in fact, they felt justice was not served. Twenty

920
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: years in prison is a finite amount of time, and

921
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 3: we'll never know what, you know, his victim would have

922
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 3: done that shud been allowed to live.

923
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, And after all that, a custody battle kind of rages,

924
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,759
Speaker 4: because of course there was the most heartbreaking part of

925
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,839
Speaker 4: this story to me anyway, the child there who might

926
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 4: have witnessed not only ongoing potentially domestic abuse and you know,

927
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:15,759
Speaker 4: disturbances between the parents who had seemed perpetrated by by

928
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 4: mister McDonald, but also potentially was a witness to her

929
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 4: mother's murder.

930
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And with this, with this custody battle, eventually,

931
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,400
Speaker 3: you know, Andrew McDonald's mother wins the case.

932
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 4: As civil at this point, right.

933
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, they're trying to figure out, you know, where's

934
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 3: the safest home for the kid. So then yes. In

935
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, Andrew McDonald's family wins a pretty significant

936
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 3: civil that's also wrongful death case for two hundred and

937
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 3: ten million US dollars and damages against Andre McDonald.

938
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 4: I had that kind of money, No.

939
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 3: Not that we know of. And in August of this year,

940
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 3: as we record August of twenty twenty four, his most

941
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 3: recent appeal was just denied. So it seems for now

942
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 3: he will continue to serve the time. But this there's

943
00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 3: a stranger profile here, you guys, because it's portrayed as

944
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 3: a crime of passion, no premeditation other than post fact

945
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 3: right trying to cover up the crime. Not long after

946
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 3: Andre MacDonald was convicted, his own father found himself in

947
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 3: court accused of murdering both his first and his second wives.

948
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 4: What the heck? Yeah, that's a twist, I mean, but

949
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 4: it was also been to your point, especially here in

950
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 4: the Dog. Perhaps it is an indication of that continuum

951
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 4: of generational trauma and violence that we talk about a

952
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 4: lot on the show.

953
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 3: I'm wondering, I'm wondering. We know the father, Everton McDonald,

954
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 3: known as Beachy Stout to his friends and his co

955
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:09,440
Speaker 3: defendant Oscar Barnes were later found guilty in Jamaica's Supreme

956
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,880
Speaker 3: Court for at least the death of Tanya McDonald. You

957
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 3: can find a piece on this in the Jamaica Observer

958
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 3: and a couple of other local papers. Apparently he had

959
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 3: tried to pay a guy named Denvelen Bubbla Minote three

960
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 3: million dollars to kill his wife or Beachy stout hat,

961
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 3: and he gave him exact instructions. He said, stab her

962
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 3: and then burn her body. This guy couldn't do it,

963
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 3: so he sub contracted the hit to a guy named

964
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 3: Oscar Barnes, and both of those guys got convicted. I

965
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 3: believe they are in jail for life.

966
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 4: That's there is this cay getting three million bucks.

967
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:56,320
Speaker 3: That's another question, right.

968
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I do feel like we're ending with a

969
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 4: few open questions, yes, which is fine.

970
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 3: And folks, I love the point you made. Know about

971
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 3: bringing up more questions. There are things we can't answer.

972
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 3: But we can't answer one question right now. Why are

973
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 3: we bringing up this case long after it's been solved,

974
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 3: long after this innocent child has been saved. Well's primarily

975
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 3: because we see a disturbing trend in violence against women.

976
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 3: You know, and in these cycles of abuse, did the

977
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 3: son learn from the father and feel physical violence was appropriate.

978
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 3: How do we in the audience raise children in community

979
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 3: to avoid such horrific acts? And you know, right now

980
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 3: the United States is struggling to preserve the rights of

981
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 3: women over the next four years and beyond. This is

982
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 3: something to think about.

983
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's a big deal her in Andrea's life too,

984
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 2: because according to her co workers, according to some of

985
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: her good friends, she was in an abusive relationship and

986
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,480
Speaker 2: she was she would come in with scratches on her

987
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,439
Speaker 2: face that her friends would take note of and ask

988
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: her about, and she would, you know, she would even

989
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 2: say to them, ohs Andre, you know it's Andre, But

990
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like how when there's something like that,

991
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 2: how do we effectively have stuff in place so that

992
00:58:23,120 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 2: so that someone can really be loud about it, Hey,

993
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 2: I'm under attack at home.

994
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:30,640
Speaker 4: It's just so difficult, though, because oftentimes there's that Stockholm

995
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 4: syndrome of it all, where they know they don't want

996
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 4: to be loud about her, they feel compelled to defend

997
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 4: the abuser. And that's the real complex part of it.

998
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:41,520
Speaker 4: And it also involves a lot of psychological abuse. And

999
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 4: coercion and just having people breaking people down to make

1000
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 4: them feel as though they need you.

1001
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 3: You know. Normalization and erosion of boundaries can sent the

1002
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 3: one thing and then driving tonimalize your horrific behavior toward others. Yeah,

1003
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:00,960
Speaker 3: I agree with these points. Domestic violence cannot simply be

1004
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 3: legislated away. It's a multi, multi generational pattern. It comes

1005
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 3: from many different sources. There are resources available to help folks,

1006
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 3: and that's why we're looking at this story today. Please please,

1007
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,720
Speaker 3: please be safe. Thank you so much for tuning in.

1008
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 3: We would love to hear your thoughts. We try to

1009
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 3: be easy to find online.

1010
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,959
Speaker 4: It's very You can find us at the handle Conspiracy Stuff,

1011
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 4: where we exist, on Facebook where we have our Facebook

1012
00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 4: group Here's where it gets crazy, on YouTube where we

1013
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 4: have video content galore for you to enjoy, and on xfka, Twitter,

1014
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 4: on Instagram and TikTok. We're a Conspiracy Stuff show.

1015
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 2: We have a phone number one eight three three STDWYTK.

1016
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 2: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname and

1017
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,400
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1018
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 2: message on the air. If you've got more to say,

1019
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 2: then can fit in that voicemail. Why not instead send

1020
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 2: us a good old fashioned email.

1021
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:55,920
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1022
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,360
Speaker 3: correspondence we receive. We always love to hear from you.

1023
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: This is a last, but not least way to contact us.

1024
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 3: We can all see it, we can all respond. There

1025
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 3: are we haven't put in rules yet. Please please don't

1026
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 3: make us do so, but do let us know if

1027
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 3: we can share your message on air, to give us

1028
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 3: the links, take us to the edge of the rabbit hole.

1029
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 3: Tell us what's on your mind, and even if it's

1030
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 3: something that you don't want to share with the larger

1031
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:25,880
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1032
01:00:25,880 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 3: to hear from you. Join us out here in the

1033
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 3: dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1034
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,400
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1035
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:56,040
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1036
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