1 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Today is a beautiful day on Table for two. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: We're back at the Bustling Tower Bar in Los Angeles, 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: and we're having lunch with renowned historian and New York 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: Times best selling author Doug Brinkley. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome, Hey, great. 6 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 3: To do this with you. 7 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: My friend Doug is not only close friends with Seampan, 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: They've spent time together in unpredictable places like New Orleans 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: after Katrina and Haiti after the twenty ten earthquake. He's 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: also friends with George and Amal Cloney and works real 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: close with the Clooney Foundation. A professor at Rice University 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,240 Speaker 1: with seven honorary doctorates, Doug has written countless best selling 13 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: books and won too many awards to list, including a Grammy. 14 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,319 Speaker 2: I mean, the list goes on and on. 15 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 3: I haven't eaten anything. 16 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: Oh you haven't. Okay, good? Do you have some lunch 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: here with me? 18 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: His latest book is called Silent Spring Revolution, and it 19 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: pays tribute to the environmental crusaders of the nineteen sixties 20 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: like John F. 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 2: Kennedy and Rachel Carson. 22 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: It's a fascinating read and shows how one person really 23 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: can make a difference. Now I call you the brad 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: Pit of American Historians just say, like, we are sitting 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: with Doug Brinkley, the bit of American Historians. So pour 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: yourself a drink and grab a bite to eat, because 27 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: we're having lunch with Doug Brinkley. I'm Bruce Bosi and 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: this is my podcast Table for two. 29 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: So, Doug your book, there's a lot here. 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: Can you sort of encapsulate it if you were to 31 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: sort of just kind of drill down for someone like 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: myself who isn't the most in touch or educated in 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: this area. 34 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 3: It's a birth of the environmental movement in my book, 35 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 3: and how they did it, how a generate forged forward, 36 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: put out all the Paul Revera alarms, created Earth date consciousness, 37 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: and made us understand that we have to be planetary stewarts. 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 3: We failed that generation, didn't. They got a lot done 39 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 3: in the United States legislation wise, but we're failing them, 40 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: and so we need a new wave. We're waiting for 41 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 3: what I would call the fourth wave of environmental activism. 42 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: You know, on the cover of this book, Rachel Carson 43 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I don't really. 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: Know about this woman. 45 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: So I've been reading her book Silent spring, and there 46 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 1: are several things that have popped out with me. And 47 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: one of the things she says is, you know, now 48 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: from conception to. 49 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: The grave, you have things in you as a result 50 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: of the pesticides. 51 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: And she says it's ironic that man might determine his 52 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: own future by something so seemingly trivial as the choice 53 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: of an insects break. So kind of talk about that 54 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: moment and who this woman was, and also in context, 55 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: you know, people get stuck with thinking Doug. As an individual, 56 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: I can only do so much. But as an individual, 57 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: this woman did a significant amount of things. 58 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I once got to be Rosa Parks's biographer, and 59 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: I spent a lot of time with Missus Parks in 60 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 3: Detroit and Montgomery and here in Beverly Hills. And it's 61 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 3: just one woman who created a revolution. And Rachel Carson 62 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 3: is like that. She grew up in Springdale, Pennsylvania, on 63 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 3: the Allegheny River near Pittsburgh, and it was unregulated factories, 64 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 3: including a glue factory that was poisoning the air and 65 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 3: water near where her backyard was, and so she became 66 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: kind of an instinctive environmentalist, wanting to clean the Allegheny 67 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 3: and beautify her area. But she never saw an ocean 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: as a girl. And she went to a women's college 69 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 3: outside of Pittsburgh, but got a scholarship fellowship to go 70 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 3: to Woods Hole. Woods Hole was worth knowing about. It 71 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 3: still exists. It's on caick Cod by Hyanna'sport, and it 72 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: is the vortex of marine studies if you wanted to 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: study whales or nurse sharks or shad. 74 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: I don't have to remember that from my daughter. She 75 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 2: loves everything marine. 76 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 3: Because they built on the ocean a giant red brick library. 77 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 3: In early they started collecting there any book, any pamphlet 78 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 3: about the seas. So if you wanted to go now 79 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 3: with the internet world and you know, you can find stuff, 80 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 3: but back in the early twenty century, this was where 81 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 3: you headed. And she got very interested in eels, which 82 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: do migratory journeys, like all the way from Africa across 83 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: the ocean. So an eel and the Allegheny River could 84 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: have come all the way from Africa. That fascinated her 85 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 3: that they had migratory patterns, not unlike birds that go 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: long distances. And she started writing for the Baltimore Sun. 87 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 3: She got a zoology degree at Johns Hopkins. During World 88 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 3: War Two, she started writing radio scripts and was on 89 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 3: radio about oceans. And then she wrote in nineteen forty one, 90 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: at the beginning of World War two, a book about 91 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 3: the oceans, and she became nation. Jacquesstou of Pros. 92 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: Wow, I've never heard of her, like you would think 93 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,479 Speaker 1: in history class at some point you will elementary to 94 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: high school, this woman would have been. 95 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: You would have thought in her sea books are timeless. 96 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: They're not something you know, a silent spring, which talk 97 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: about in a minute is of a time. But her 98 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 3: books on the oceans are the most beautiful things ever written. 99 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 3: She writes about you know, she would travel the seashores. 100 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: Her favorite milieu was the Atlantic, and so she would 101 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: go her summer home in Maine, Cape Cod you know. 102 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 3: But she loved places like Cumberland Island, Georgia, and Cape Lookout, 103 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: North Carolina, along those open beach stretches, and she'd collect specimens. 104 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 3: So she was all of that about oceans. But she 105 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 3: started after you know. World War two is the defining 106 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 3: point in my book because Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We win 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: the war of the United States, but at what cost 108 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 3: to develop nuclear weapons? 109 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: Yes, and that is something that I also want to 110 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: have from your our historian point of view. That moment 111 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: the Truman administration decided to do that, well, the. 112 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 3: First bomb at Hiroshima happened, and it did create a 113 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 3: little bit of concern with some smart people that said, 114 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 3: no more, what are you doing? That was the civilian 115 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 3: population Roseroma. And one of the people that complained about 116 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 3: it was Joe Kennedy, the father of future President John F. Kennedy, 117 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 3: who wanted to see Henry Lucid Time magazine and his 118 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: local bishop and the Catholic Church say can we get 119 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: to know more of this? But Truman dropped a second 120 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 3: and no sooner did the detonation go off than a 121 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 3: man named Norman Cousins wrote a long essay called is 122 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: Man Obsolete? And in that Cousin says, this is a 123 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 3: whole new age where now we can blow the planet desmitterings. 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 3: Everything's over what we used to know, And unluckily for us, 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 3: the United States government started testing nuclear bombs willy nilly, 126 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 3: blowing up the Marshall Islands, making indigenous people their going 127 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 3: into Nevada, and blowing up atomic bombs. From nineteen forty 128 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 3: five to nineteen ninety two, the United States detonated one 129 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 3: thousan fifty four nuclear bombs. 130 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: Unbelievable. 131 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: So it was it was radioactive, but people thought that 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: the radioactivity or would stay maybe and only affect indigenous 133 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 3: people in Nevada and New Mexico. Well, it blew and 134 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 3: the wind blew and people were getting radiation spikes up 135 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 3: all the way in New York. And so you have 136 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 3: and then DDT, which was sprayed in World War two 137 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: as a miracle because it killed lice, it killed ticks, 138 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 3: and it killed mosquitoes. So if you were a soldier 139 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: fighting in the Philippines or you know, Okinawa or something, 140 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: you'd get doused in it and to avoid malaria. But 141 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 3: the scientists in our US government started testing at a 142 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 3: place called Paul TuS in Maryland, said, oh, this is 143 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 3: a death merchant. This is well, it's killing fish, it's 144 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 3: sterilizing animals, it's you know, the all the eggshells are thinning. 145 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 3: And yet we were spraying all across the United States 146 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: forty five to sixty two, crop spraying DDT everywhere, And 147 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 3: so there became these lanes of environmentalists no more nuclear 148 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: testing group. Rachel Carson was part of that, No more 149 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: DDT spray indiscriminately. Rachel Carson was part of that. And 150 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 3: Rachel Carson was part of a seashore preservation movement which said, 151 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 3: my god, we're building condos right on the water in 152 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 3: Miami and New Jersey. We need some fresh stretches of 153 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 3: open beach for the public. And that seashore movement leads 154 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 3: to John F. Kennedy creating Cape cod National Seashore, Point 155 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 3: Raised National Seashore up in morin South Padre Island, Texas. 156 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: And then they moved and Kennedy johnsoniers to say Fire 157 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 3: Island National Seashore in New York, Actique in Maryland, Virginia, 158 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 3: on and on, and they were smart enough in the 159 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: sixties and say, let's save the Great Lakes, this great 160 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 3: freshwater body. So we saved national parks all along the 161 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 3: Great Lakes, like the Apostle Islands in northern Wisconsin twenty 162 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 3: two drop dead gorgeous islands and you can canoe and 163 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 3: kayak too, and Sleeping Bear Dunes, these massive dunes on 164 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: Lake Michigan, and all this got saved. 165 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 2: Would have been gone. 166 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 3: Oh it was on its way out. 167 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: Everything gone. 168 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's fascinating, and it's happening today too, Doug. 169 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,199 Speaker 2: It's like the divide. It's like there are the people 170 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 2: that understand that and see that, and there are. 171 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: People that are looking to develop it and make money 172 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: off of it or what have you. And she as 173 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: the individual, Rachel Carson, I know there are a number 174 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: of things that got passed through legislation that have affected 175 00:09:57,559 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 1: all of us in a positive way as the individual, 176 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: Like the Clean Air Act. 177 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: Well, if we were coming for a lunch like this 178 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 3: in say nineteen sixty and right in you know Hollywood, 179 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: you know West Hollywood, if we came here, it would 180 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 3: have been pollution everywhere Downtown La Small you couldn't breathe, 181 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: and Pasadena was particularly bad. Yeah, and so you couldn't. 182 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 3: People were getting sick just being in Los Angeles. And 183 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: yet this was paradise. You were supposed to come to 184 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: southern California because it was the prettiest place on the exactary. 185 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy seven, the first time I ever came 186 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: to La I was with my parents. 187 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 2: We were flying in. It was so smoggy the plane 188 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: couldn't land. They had it diverted to Vegas. We had 189 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 2: to spend the night in Vegas and then fly the 190 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 2: next morning. That's disgusting, disgusting. 191 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: It was that bad. Yeah. In What's in Need, I 192 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 3: write about in the book a group. There's like a 193 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 3: group of women in Pasadena, the smogged Tears that would 194 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: hold protest rallies, and a lot of citizens groups rose up, 195 00:10:56,280 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 3: and there became we needed to detect where's small coming from? 196 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 3: What are the sources? And there were two different ways 197 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: to think about. One is stationary industrial source pollution, and 198 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 3: that at dirty Incinerator, a factory that got started getting 199 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: cleaner in nineteen sixty three with the Clean Air Act 200 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: of sixty three passed right after Kennedy was killed in 201 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 3: Dallas in December. Then there was a second Act nineteen 202 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 3: seventy December, and Nixon signed that and that second Act 203 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: went after automobiles. And Nixon, for all of his deep flaws, 204 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 3: had an ear for constituent politics and on the environment. 205 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty eight he was running. He did not 206 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: care when he ran presientout the environment at all. But 207 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 3: there was a lot of noise in the media culture, 208 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 3: you know, and showing dirty lakes and dying lake erie 209 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 3: and dead birds. But Nixon was president only days when 210 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 3: the Santa Barbara oil spill happened and Santa Barbara paradise. 211 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: So you talk about the significance of that, Yeah. 212 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 3: Wiped out, you know, just black smudge goo everywhere, Birds 213 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 3: stuck in oil, unable to get out. And Nixon started 214 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: seeing this happening, and on January one, nineteen seventy, Nixon 215 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 3: at San Clemente signs nipa National Environmental Policy Act. After 216 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: that went down, Nixon gave a State of the Union 217 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 3: address January nineteen seventy and in that address, one third 218 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 3: of it was about the environment. Now Earth Day came 219 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 3: and Earth Day was, which it was epics to everybody. 220 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: Walter Kronkit covered on it was like the biggest thing, 221 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 3: like or today's Earth Day. Everybody got off from school, people, 222 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 3: every college camp. Yeah, it was the deal, and a 223 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: lot of things happened. The music became big out of 224 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 3: that Earth Day. Marvin Gay, Mercy me the ecology, Joni 225 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 3: Mitchell big, you know, Yellow Taxi, Neil Young writing ecological ballads, 226 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: a Pete Seeger folk singer working to save the Hudson River. 227 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,080 Speaker 3: So musical artists became environmentally significant. 228 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that late sixties or that seventies genre of Laura 229 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: Canyon music. 230 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 2: Of that whole, all those artists. That's when. 231 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: Also, I think the magic was happening in Los Angeles. 232 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:20,079 Speaker 1: So interesting that it. 233 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 3: Was they took the environment as a big as you hear, 234 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 3: California was the leader in an environmental stewardship and consciousness. 235 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Table for two. 236 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: We've just ordered lunch here at the Tower Bar, and 237 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: Doug is telling me all about his new book, Silent 238 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: Spring Revolution, the snapshot of the extraordinary people who early 239 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 1: on insisted I'm protecting the earth and its resources. So 240 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: let's dive deeper into what inspired Doug to write it. So, 241 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this book is huge. How long did it 242 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: take you to write this and when did you start 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: to sort of formulate the significance of these particular people. 244 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 3: Well, the great part for me was, unlike when you 245 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: deal with the Roosevelts, Theodore and Franklin, they were real environmentalists. 246 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 3: I mean, they're a gold standard. They really prioritized it 247 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: less so Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon. But they were responsive 248 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 3: and what they responded to was Rachel Carson. She was 249 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: like Harriet Beecher, Stowe's uncle Tom's Cabin about slavery, or 250 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 3: there was Upton Saint Clair wrote a book The Jungle, 251 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 3: about dirty meat packing factories in Chicago. Rachel Carson blew 252 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: a very loud alarm in Silent Spring that said, we're 253 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 3: destroying the planet. And by our arrogance and our conceits 254 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: and by our greed and by our consumerism, run a muck. 255 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: We're not regulating things properly, We're not being land and 256 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 3: water stewarts. And so I knew that she would be 257 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: the center of my book, and and yet I wanted 258 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 3: to have an ensemble cast. And her relationship with John F. 259 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: Kennedy's interesting because if Jack Kennedy did not back her 260 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 3: action she was. He said, I'm gonna put a science panel. 261 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: I'm gonna hire the best people, but we're gonna see 262 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: whether her book holds up or not, the obvious thing 263 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 3: to do. And the scientist said, oh my god, Rachel 264 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 3: Carson nailed it's that's it's all accurate. And so that 265 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,119 Speaker 3: helped you have a president now backing you, a rewriter 266 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 3: like Rachel Carson. And then I noticed Lady Bird Johnson, 267 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 3: a first lady married to Lyndon Johnson. She was a 268 00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: hardened environmentalist, particularly she was interested in wildflower counts cervation, 269 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: but also she was opposed to what they call the 270 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 3: uglies or vulgularization of landscapes. She wanted to make sure 271 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: parts of America stay beautiful more in a pristine way. 272 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 3: And she she would travel all over his first lady 273 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 3: and go down the Rio Grande River in a raft, 274 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 3: or you know, go on kayaking in the Snake River 275 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: of Idaho, or go up to the redwoods up in Mendocino, 276 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 3: Humboldt County, California. So she was an activist environmental first Lady, 277 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 3: which was helpful because she carried a big celebrities Filowl 278 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: Life and yeah, and then Hollywood. You know, I write 279 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 3: in the book that Walt Disney was a Republican, but 280 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 3: he was an unusual Republican that he had that in 281 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 3: the sense that his big love was critters, like if 282 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 3: he lived all animals, like when he lived here in California. 283 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 3: You know, other people might complain about deer in their backyard, 284 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,040 Speaker 3: bamby in their backyard, or what he never did. And 285 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: he saw the potential animation of watching these animals up 286 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 3: close their habits, their movements, and so he did a 287 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 3: group of films called Disney True Adventures, which would run 288 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 3: and it had a profound effect because he would show 289 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: the life of a coyote, and up until Disney, people 290 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 3: all over America put cyanide to poison the coyotes because 291 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 3: they were considered a vermin and an enemy to the 292 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 3: ranchers to cast sheep, and Disney makes them cuddly pops 293 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 3: living with mom rolling down a hill, you know. So 294 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 3: there became in the sixties, We've got to save this 295 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 3: Noah's arc of species. That how we're lucky we can 296 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 3: still do it. We can save the manatee in Florida, 297 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 3: or with Florida panther, we can save a condor in Arizona, or. 298 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: The Big Big Deal. 299 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: Very and your friendships with Sean Penn and George Clooney 300 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: and Brad pitt to you know, tell us about those relationship. 301 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: I'm very close with Sean. Sean Penn is a good 302 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 3: friend of mine and I'm always proud of him, and 303 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: I tell him I'm proud of him. I'm proud that 304 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: he beyond being this extraordinary actor, who could you know, 305 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 3: do milk or Mystic River and his resume is so long. 306 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 3: The other side of him, which is an activist side. 307 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: When I was in New Orleans for Hurricane Katrina, he'd 308 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 3: go down to film in New Orleans and lot Sean. 309 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,439 Speaker 3: In fact, he has tattooed on his side NOLA, New Orleans, 310 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 3: you know, Louisiana on his arm. 311 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 1: He wrote a book based on your experience with Sean 312 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 1: about Katrina. And it also comes up as a question 313 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: to me, like why was that not the moment that 314 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: everyone just said, okay, this. 315 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 3: Is that should have been But okay, and we were 316 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,159 Speaker 3: living I was living in Katrina through Katrina, stayed in 317 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: at Tulane and Sean came in. I evacuated after it, 318 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 3: and he came in and we insinuated ourselves past roads, blocks, 319 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 3: a police you know, and we were in the dark 320 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 3: in city. We stayed together in this I knew one 321 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: home of a guy who had a generator, and so 322 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 3: Shawn and I would stay there. And then Matt Tyabe, 323 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 3: a writer from Rolling Stone, was around for a while. 324 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 3: But we would get a boat through Nick Robertson of CNN, 325 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: and I was able to procure little boats, so we 326 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 3: would go out and do rescue missions and you know, 327 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 3: it was amazing to me because Shawn got on the 328 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 3: boat and hop in and but some of these people 329 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 3: lost everything. They're in water. They're sitting on a front 330 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 3: porch stoop with water surrounding them, and suddenly they would 331 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 3: look up and say. 332 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 2: Sean Penn, I saw you and. 333 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: You said that right, and you're talking about about Shawn's 334 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 3: movies while your. 335 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: Wife is gone down. 336 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 3: But we would bring people up to Saint Charles Avenue 337 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: and then to a Turo hospital. And you know, he's 338 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 3: a natural leader, Sean, and he has a great leadership. 339 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 3: He could have been colonel or a captain in army 340 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 3: completely because he's able to mobilize people and move he 341 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 3: does logistics surprisingly well. And so after that we just 342 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,159 Speaker 3: started doing different things. So I wrote a portrait of 343 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 3: Sean and a long profile for Vanity Fair and Haiti. 344 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 3: It was only one of my visits to Haiti, but 345 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 3: I visited Sewn a bunch of times down there, helping 346 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 3: doing what I could do as a writer, but also 347 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: by profiling Sean and Vanity Fair about what he was 348 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 3: doing in Haiti, bringing consciousness to it. And I'm collect 349 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: friends through Sean like that. There's a General Ken Keene, 350 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 3: who was the head of the Southern Command in Haiti. 351 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 2: And I was with Sean. 352 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: It was this, you know, strange Haitian knight, importer of Prince. 353 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 3: And Sean's smoking his cigarette and we went together to 354 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 3: go meet the general running the thing and Sean puts 355 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 3: his cigarette behind his back like like that. The general 356 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 3: doesn't see it, and he goes. He goes, Sean smoke, 357 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 3: that's a perfectly good cigarette and it should not go 358 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 3: to waste, and started smoking in and they got along 359 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 3: really well. And here I watched Sean in bed with 360 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 3: the military in a way that was really interesting and helpful. 361 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: It seems like that's unique, like that you throw yourself 362 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: into it right at the front lines. 363 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 3: What motivates maybe both Sean and I are frustrated. We 364 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 3: want to be and we want to be like combat 365 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 3: reporters like we want to be We want to be 366 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 3: like Ernest Hemingway or Stephen Crane. 367 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 2: And do you ever get scared when you're in those. 368 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 3: You know, because I really take care of myself, you know, 369 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 3: I do, But I'm so cautious. Like when I was 370 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 3: in Haiti, everybody else was telling me, like somebody got 371 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 3: sick from a shower, you know, from the water, wondering 372 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:54,879 Speaker 3: about and so I was like, I like I do it. 373 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 3: I was like doing bottled water spongebag. And I wasn't risky, 374 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 3: you know. I saw others like, oh it was only 375 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 3: one person. It's like ones enough, man, I ain't going. 376 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: In that shower. 377 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 3: So I have preservation strategies. I'm not quite brave good, 378 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 3: but yeah, but you know, we we've had fun and 379 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: got many other places. I went with Sean and Christopher 380 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 3: Hitchens to Venezuela and we traveled all over there. We interviewed, 381 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 3: you go Chabas there. I've been with Sean to Cuba 382 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 3: and we would go, so it became part of a routine. 383 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 3: But more than that, I just he's just such a 384 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 3: warm heart and wonderful person. Sean. When you get to 385 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 3: really know him, he's a manch and a beautiful friend 386 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 3: and never forgets me and includes me and things. You know, 387 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 3: here I am teaching at Rice University, and if he 388 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 3: hears I'm coming out here and he's doing some big gala, 389 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 3: he'll just like suddenly plug me in, you know, Like 390 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 3: I'm like I'm at the eight table, and it's like well, 391 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 3: you've earned a seat technically. 392 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: And Sean, I had the you know, when Shawn was 393 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: really pushing the vaccinations here in Los Angeles. I had 394 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: a real incredible afternoon with him where I met him 395 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: in Brentwood and I drove in his pickup truck and 396 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: I really saw him in action, just as he's smoking 397 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: a cigarettes and. 398 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 2: We're driving a Dodger stadium. 399 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: And then I, you know, watched him have the meeting 400 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: with the team and then go to the field and 401 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: really see what was happening, and then go back and 402 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: sort of hear his regroup, and I really at one 403 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: point just looked at the you know, to my left 404 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 1: in the car and there Sean is all, you know, 405 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: weathered and tan and smoking, and I just I just knew. 406 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: I this was such a significant moment of watching an 407 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: incredible individual make change, which keep going back to individuals 408 00:23:42,760 --> 00:24:05,119 Speaker 1: can do things. Thank you for joining us on Table 409 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: for two. Doug is not only an award winning author, 410 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: but he's also a distinguished historian and has an eye 411 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 1: not only on the past, but on what's happening today too. 412 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm curious how Doug thinks we will look back at 413 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: this unprecedented moment in history. 414 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 2: All of us have had the good. 415 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: Fortune now to see with these telescopes that are now 416 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: showing us what's out there. And then you also remember 417 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: the finite time we're on this planet, from conception to grave. 418 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: And it astounds me that we don't. 419 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: Make the right choices and we're in this war with 420 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: each other. 421 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: When these companies make a lot of money, the economic divide, 422 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: it gets me nuts. 423 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 2: And so you feel there's hope. 424 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 3: I have to because I teach young people, and so 425 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: you know, Witty gut Thrie used to talk about, I'm 426 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 3: a hope machine, and I try to is that like, 427 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 3: I've got to promote hope. And I also learned from 428 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 3: the people I wrote about the book Environmentalist of the 429 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 3: sixties that got it results. You got to make it fun. 430 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 3: A lot of students are very worried about climate change, 431 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 3: as they should be. The bad news is some of 432 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 3: them are freaking out about it, saying, my god, the 433 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 3: planet is doomed. Everything it's lost. And so you try 434 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 3: to say, don't get sick, you know, stay psychologically healthy, 435 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 3: stay physically healthy, and let's get you going on a project. 436 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 3: And it may not be getting off of fossil fuels. 437 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 3: It might be a smaller thing of protecting a local 438 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 3: by you or saving an open story. Small, start, small, 439 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 3: and get it's the taste of victory. Win some local 440 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 3: environmental issue, stop a project that's going to be detrimental 441 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 3: to an estuary or a butterfly habitat, whatever you choose, 442 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: and then you'll meet people. You'll network with people, and 443 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 3: that network just has to grow. But it's not going 444 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 3: to There is a spiritual side to the natural world, 445 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 3: and we're going to need all hands on deck to 446 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 3: save the planet. If you can find somebody that's angry 447 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: about this, this one percent of corporate greed and extraction industry, 448 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: you know, monsters that are just ravaging the planet and 449 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 3: they don't care. You're gonna have to find a very 450 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: big alliance of David's to take on that goliath. 451 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: And so it's great to. 452 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,160 Speaker 1: Hear you say from your perspective to find the hope 453 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: and keep it and lean into like the small, the 454 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: small winds, because the small winds are going to get us. 455 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 3: The good news about the generation Z, the young people 456 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 3: of today, I think they see the electric car for 457 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 3: whatever Tesla and other companies are, they see it's doable. 458 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 3: This is the ni first generation that's growing up that 459 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 3: knows somebody that has an electric car. You know, they 460 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 3: may not be able to afford it, they don't have 461 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 3: it themselves, but they're saying I can that that's gonna happen. 462 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 3: And I think that gives them a little extra impetus 463 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 3: this generation right now that we can maybe do this. 464 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 3: It might be you know, Bob Dylan has a song 465 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 3: called up to Me which was left off of Blood 466 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 3: on the Tracks, but it's on one of his bootlegs. 467 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 3: But you know, Dylan says, you know, nobody else is 468 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 3: singing the song I want to hear, so I guess 469 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 3: it's up to me. 470 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. 471 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know or that Michael Jackson facing the 472 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 3: mirror kind of thing. But you know, you got to 473 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 3: sometimes say, look, it's about me. I'm going to do 474 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 3: what I can do without getting sick, without being psychologically 475 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 3: a basket case. I'm going to live a healthy life. 476 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 3: But I'm going to prioritize environmental stewardship any way I can, 477 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 3: and I'm willing to do small victories with my eye 478 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 3: on them on the big one. 479 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 2: Do you think there'll be a time that you the 480 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: historian looks back on this time. 481 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 1: The people that will be live looking back up this time, 482 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: we'll look at it and be like, how will they 483 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: perceive this time? 484 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 3: I think there'll be a narrative about in the nineteen 485 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 3: fifties with the discovery of DNA, human makeup, of our makeup, 486 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 3: and the same time the computer chip came, you know, 487 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 3: microchip and Texas instruments. And at the same time we 488 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 3: started aiming for the moon with technology, using our missile 489 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 3: war capacity in n NASA to do a moonshot. And 490 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: there became technology became the god. People like all this. 491 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: Huxley warned about this and Brave New World. You know, 492 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 3: in Huxley's book, you would bless yourself with the tea 493 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 3: of the Model T, but now you would bless yourself 494 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 3: with the tea of technology. And there's a race going 495 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 3: on between the people that don't care what it's happening things. 496 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 3: Technology will fix it. Well, so what if there's wild 497 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 3: buyers here? Technology will figure it out. So it's a 498 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 3: lot of people are praying at the ultra of technology 499 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 3: and that has benefits. Look, when I get sick and 500 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,800 Speaker 3: I'm going to a hospital, I'm so glad of new 501 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 3: heart open heart surgery technology. I thank you God for 502 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 3: that technology. And sometimes, you know, when I'm lost and 503 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 3: I can go on GPS, I'm like, thank God for GP. 504 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: Can you say to yourself, oh my God, how did 505 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 2: I used to do that? 506 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: We all understand it, but we also need to be 507 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 3: suspicious to take a take a paceback. That's what Rachel 508 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 3: Carson was telling people. You're just praying this DDT all over. 509 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 3: It's killing people. Caesar Chabez started the Mexican American Movement 510 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 3: with pesticides. Keg let's ye know. I mean, let's take 511 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 3: a break here, let's see what's going on. Let's get 512 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 3: more data before we move. And we opened up the 513 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 3: wild West of social media with no data. We just 514 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 3: open open the door. 515 00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 2: Everyone just ran it. 516 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: As a historian, in your view, is it your job 517 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: to be unbiased, an unbiased reporter, or is it to 518 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: be an evaluator of the past who is not unbiased, 519 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: but who is responsible for highlighting the important themes and 520 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: ideas for the rest of us in building a morality 521 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: out of it. 522 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: I've learned to have two hats. One is I try 523 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: to be just like if you went to a doctor 524 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 3: you're just doing your diagnosis, or a judge in a 525 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 3: law case, historians trying to a judge or try to 526 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 3: say this is what happened. But on the environment, when 527 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 3: you see the planet being destroyed, I feel I have 528 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 3: a moral obligation, which is ahead of my professional obligation, 529 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 3: to raise whatever alarm bells I can to say that 530 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 3: we are going to have to find a new wave. 531 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 3: We're going to have to have a new silent spring 532 00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: revolution where people from all walks of life set enough 533 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 3: we're done with fossil fuels. And I know it's global 534 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 3: and it's difficult. I don't believe China's going to help us. 535 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 3: I'm good friends with John Carey. He was trying hard 536 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 3: to do diplomacy with China on climate. It's almost impossible 537 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,520 Speaker 3: India polluting. But we can start it here at home. 538 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 3: We can start it in California and let it grow, 539 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 3: and eventually the United States has shown to be such 540 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 3: a dominant country, maybe we are the country that shows 541 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: the world that we're done with fossil fuels, that it's 542 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 3: an antiquated form. 543 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 2: Of Yeah, we're going to have to take the lead. 544 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 3: We're gonna have to be the league. And that's just it, 545 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 3: and it's hard, but it can grow with the movement 546 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 3: has to grow. I wrote in this book, it's not 547 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 3: just Rachel Carson, a scientist, author, or William O. Douglas 548 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 3: Supreme Court justice. But there were Republicans, there were filmmakers, 549 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 3: they're actors, they're artists. We all pitch in school teachers 550 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: on Earth Day teaching it. I mean, everybody today knows 551 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 3: what ecology is. I mean that that was a moment. 552 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 3: So this generation, the Baby Boom generation that gets, you know, 553 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 3: criticized a lot actually on the environment. At least created 554 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 3: sustainable ideas for are we do with air water quality, 555 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 3: sewage treatment plants, saved some species that were going extinct 556 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 3: with you know, we moved the bar forward. But since 557 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 3: then it's been in what happened with after the Endangered 558 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: Species Act passed in nineteen seventy three, that passed the 559 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 3: Senate ninety two to nothing, very progressive legislation to say wildlife. 560 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 3: That same year they had the Arab oil embargo and 561 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 3: the OPEC countries said, what you know, the Arab countries 562 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 3: united and did price gouging on us and the American 563 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 3: people like recently or complaining about high gasoline at the 564 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 3: pump's inflation. Why aren't we energy independent? And you started 565 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 3: getting the oil gas lobby organizing in a way with 566 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: the extraction industries of all kinds, chemical industries to form 567 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 3: a counter punch to the environmentalists. The good news was 568 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 3: the environmental movement got a win win, win win in 569 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 3: the sixties and seventies. It made a difference, But then 570 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 3: they got muted because of the power of money of 571 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 3: these oil and gas people shut it down. 572 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: As our lunch comes to a close, I'm comforted by 573 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: Doug's optimism that if we act now, we can still 574 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: turn things around. 575 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 2: But when the stakes are so high, what actions can 576 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 2: we take to protect the future. So, Doug, you know 577 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: you do have hope, which is so good to hear. 578 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: What can the individual do? What can I do to 579 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: help this alone? 580 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 3: I think if you have the economic means it could 581 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 3: up to transfer to an electric car, do it. If 582 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 3: you can make less of a carbon footprint, do it. 583 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 3: But look, we're busy. Not everybody's keeping tabs of their 584 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 3: carbon footprint, nor can they, And I don't want people 585 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 3: should You can't shame people. We shouldn't be shaming people 586 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 3: on the environment. Look, it's a big mess going on there, 587 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 3: So find something that you like. I like to tell 588 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 3: students the great book by Henry David Thureau Walden's Pond 589 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 3: and he fell in Love with the Pond. And you 590 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 3: read Walden and I would ask people, what's your Walden? 591 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,759 Speaker 3: If I ask Bruce, what's the place that you've been 592 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 3: in all your travels that you just love that speaks 593 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 3: to you in the natural world, be a custodian of 594 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 3: that place. Put your heart there and say, I just love, 595 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 3: for whatever reason, the Great Basin National Park in Nevada, 596 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 3: or I just love the big sur coastline. Take the time, 597 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 3: join a friends group there, talk to other people that 598 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 3: love that place, and you'll become a watch dog for 599 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 3: a particular area that we need to hold those heirlooms 600 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 3: down while all of this is in transition right now. 601 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 2: That's great. 602 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,799 Speaker 1: Be a custodian of the place you love. Protect It's 603 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: like being taking care of your home, your family. Be 604 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: that custodian. 605 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know when Doctor Seuss and the Lorax, you 606 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 3: know I speak for the trees. You need to speak 607 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,279 Speaker 3: for that one area that meant a lot to you. 608 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 3: I love the Hudson River of the valley. So I'm 609 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 3: working with Sina cuts in and get up and what 610 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,800 Speaker 3: can we do to make the river clean or just 611 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 3: one because I like all rivers, but I can be overwhelmed. 612 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 3: And don't beat up on it, don't punish ourselves. Just 613 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 3: be positive, full of love and find a place you 614 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 3: love and work to protect it. 615 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like you know the Giving Tree 616 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: that book, you know, at the end of the book 617 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: when it's just a stump and he says, I have 618 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,840 Speaker 1: nothing more to give. There's such a powerful lesson in 619 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,800 Speaker 1: that for us today. Absolutely, I don't know where on 620 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: the tree we're at. 621 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: Hopefully we're at the stump. 622 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're not at the stump. That's the good news. 623 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: That's the glass happened. 624 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 3: At the stump. It where I'm looking at that stuff. 625 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 2: We're getting close in the stump. 626 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 3: I used to be the literary executor. I am of 627 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 3: Hunter Thompson's estate, the wild Guy and all my and 628 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 3: everybody thinks that drugs and alcohol and Hunter is interesting. 629 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 3: The part I liked of Hunter was I went with him. 630 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 3: He was in Whitty Creek, Colorado, and joined the local 631 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 3: Witty Creek council meeting. It's all these like just local people, 632 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 3: and there's Hunter with this, and he would do all 633 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 3: the little things that we're not gonna let the gravel 634 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 3: pit on the road, We're not gonna do it, because 635 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 3: he loved that area and he you know, know that's 636 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 3: an Elk range, You're not going to do it. And 637 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 3: you know, he just did his little part and that 638 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: made me see him as a citizen. You know, that's 639 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 3: a calling, that's a citizen. It's really important in out 640 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 3: here what you do. Bruce, and or just an actor 641 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 3: like Leonardo DiCaprio, what he's been doing with ocean awareness. 642 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,359 Speaker 3: I've gotten to watch up close, and it's he makes 643 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 3: a difference. He can when he goes to Washington talks 644 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 3: people wake up. John Carey was once tried to ask 645 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 3: me to get Leonardo to come to a big ocean summit. 646 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not going to get him. But 647 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 3: I went and wrote an email to Michael Metovoy and 648 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 3: Metal Boy his friends. But you know, one thing happened 649 00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 3: or another and Leo said, I guess I need to 650 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 3: be there for this, and he said yep. So he 651 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 3: showed up and not only did he give an incredible speech, 652 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 3: but Leo gave him like a million dollar check on 653 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,840 Speaker 3: the spot. You know, it's amazing, and you know, so 654 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 3: a lot of the people in the Hollywood community. You 655 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 3: should see yourself as the energizing force for the new 656 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 3: environmental movement that you've got a lot of cloud power 657 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,720 Speaker 3: and media access and so use it to combat climate change. 658 00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: Well, everyone should read this book because I always feel 659 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: like you have to understand the foundation to go to 660 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 1: the next level of it. And you know, you can't 661 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: just take an amazing photograph. You have to learn the process. 662 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 2: Yes, and we've lost the way so to get back there. 663 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 2: This book is an amazing book. It should be talking. 664 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 3: That's when I wanted to. I think if you read it, 665 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 3: you'll say, up optimistically, we can do this. Now, we 666 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 3: got a big burn, but we can do it. They 667 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 3: took on these challenges. I mean, the bald eagle was 668 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,520 Speaker 3: almost extinct. There handfuls left. I remember, we brought it back. 669 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,279 Speaker 2: And you know, we can do a lot. 670 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 3: A Lake Gary was dead and it's now alive. Kyahga 671 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 3: River on fire. Now it's a national park. We can 672 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 3: do things, and so be hopeful. Read this as like 673 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 3: a road map to twenty first century new environmental wave 674 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:38,959 Speaker 3: waiting for It's been. 675 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 2: A pleasure having lunch with you, and thank you everyone 676 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:43,280 Speaker 2: for pulling up a chair today. 677 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 3: And what they didn't see is that I, unfortunately I 678 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 3: went with the pizza and left my kill salad it 679 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 3: to wilt in front of me. 680 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you right off the bat well. Thank you, Doug. 681 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 2: I appreciate your time. I appreciate lunch. 682 00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Bruce. 683 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 1: Table for Two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio 684 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 1: seven three seven Park and airmyl Our. Executive producers are 685 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,320 Speaker 1: Bruce Bosi and Nathan King. Table for Two is researched 686 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: and written by Bridget arsenalt Our sound engineers are Paul 687 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,120 Speaker 1: Bowman and Alyssa Midcalf. 688 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 2: Table for two's la production team is Danielle Romo and 689 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 2: Lorraine viz Our. 690 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: Music supervisor is Randall poster Our talent booking is by 691 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: James Harkin. Special thanks to Amy Sugarman, Uni Cher, Kevin Yuvane, 692 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,760 Speaker 1: Bobby Bauer, Alison Kanter Raber, Barbara and Jen and Jeff 693 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: Klein and the staff at the Tower Bar in the 694 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: world famous Sunset Tower Hotel. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 695 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 696 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.