WEBVTT - Ep. 289: We Did Start the Fire 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is Me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.320 bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:24.080 can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:28.040 hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:36.440 every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, Yanny, I 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.920 don't know if you noticed, but I have a um 0:00:40.080 --> 0:00:44.960 giant bear rug over my last I brought this, so 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:48.520 this is the bear I got this spring. Yanni has 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:53.840 often criticized bear rugs for what reason and just general 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.920 bear amounts, bearmounts, and bear rugs. Yeah, because their mouths 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.800 are open and snarling and growling and making them look 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.480 vicious and mean. And I feel like when we see 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.959 bears and most likely bears of their lives, they're not 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.000 in those uh their faces, they're not in that position. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.400 Their faces look more like this guy. Yeah, this guy, 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.920 this looks like a bear. Yeah, not growling. Um. So 0:01:22.240 --> 0:01:27.800 Clay Nucom hosted the Bear Grease podcast, introduced me to 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:33.760 his tax the Nervous Buddy, Uh John Hayes Hayes tax 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.120 nermy studio which is a Libby Montana, and Clay brought 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.120 like Clay delivered my bear over to him and we 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.440 had a We were driving down the road with the 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.720 bear still in the back, just a green hide, and 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.800 I was saying to him, why are your bears always uh? 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:54.800 Why are there miles always growling? Um? And he was 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.960 saying something paraphrase a little bit. But the gist I 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.720 got from his people do like that. It Also, it's 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:05.040 easy to do it, easier than the clothes mouth somehow. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.400 It's easier to make them look normal, And there's a 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:14.000 lot of forms that. There's a lot of forms to 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:17.320 do that, but there aren't forms readily available for rugs 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:22.480 to do it otherwise. So he he started to develop 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.040 how to do a close mouth bear by using a 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:29.919 form meant for a different application. So he was already 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.280 doing close mouth bears. There was enough demand for it 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:34.480 that he was working on it before you brought. No, 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:36.560 he doesn't. He says, like, I do them, but I 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.240 don't buy. He don't buy. I feel like, if I'm 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.360 screwing this up, John, you can cut Well, we're gonna 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.760 have you call in. No, I just come into the 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.400 studio and you can explain it better. If I'm screwing 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:48.360 this up. They don't sell like what you need to 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:52.120 do this. He buys a form for a different purpose 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.560 and kind of manipulates it and changes it in order 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.960 to be able to do this on a rug. So 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.079 this bear, you can see his chin, mouth everything. He's 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.960 not growling. And I have three other I gave one 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:09.560 away too in my house right now where they're all growling. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:12.640 And you're right, I've looked at a pile of bears, 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.639 most of them never seen one like that, or they're 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.480 eating some grass I like that. But when I get mine, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.760 I'm gonna have his head even sinking more into the ruck, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:26.160 a little lower profile. So I'm gonna have him cut 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:28.960 it like maybe like right at the top lip and 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.560 go straight back and even have it, uh just like 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:34.800 sink into the rug a little bit more. You follow me, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:38.120 I'm following, Yeah, And I was gonna. I thought when 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.440 you were first showing it how it was kind of uh, 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:42.520 it's got a little gift to it, like there's not 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.640 quite a pillow in there. But I believe Clay did 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:51.160 a video with John Hayes, John Hayes name, Uh where 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.280 John makes like what he calls like a soft taxidermy kyo. 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:01.560 Did you see a little video about the coyote. Yeah, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.080 and that thing looked cool because then it's like it 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:07.560 becomes more practical because it's like, oh, there's a coyote 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.440 on the couch. Oh, but you can also lay your 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:11.280 head on him and take a little nap, and it 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:13.320 be kind of cool to have that all through that 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:18.080 bear hide. Oh yeah, I would like that. Uh seth 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.240 if you had to rate how close did that come 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.360 to get in a wolf? If you okay, no, here, 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.480 here's the thing. Ten as you got it, one as 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:31.520 you never saw it. Oh man. So well, there's a 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.680 couple of factors that go into it. One would be 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:40.120 you're shooting at long distance. Okay, let's say extremely good. Okay, 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:47.160 I would say let's say moderate. I would say, uh, 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.120 you came, you came really close. I would put you 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:56.200 at a like an eight three. Oh really, yeah, because 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:58.839 if you were when that wolf was standing up there 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.279 still for all that time time, and you weren't set up, 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.600 just imagine if you were set up at that point 0:05:03.640 --> 0:05:06.280 in time, you could have gotten a shot. So we 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:11.400 were sheep hunting in Alaska. Um, I was cheaping up 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.719 my brother Danny, who's a residence. So we're able to hunt, 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.400 Like in Alaska, there's this thing like second degree kindred 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.960 um that that you can hunt without a guide for 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.120 a species that normally require a guide if you have 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:26.840 a close relative that lives there and you're hunting with 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:32.560 that person. Um grizzlies, mountain goats, and sheep um. So 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.320 if they're white or tend towards whiteish, you have to 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.760 have a guide or second degree kindred. So I can 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.200 hunt with my brother. And we were hunting and we 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:42.320 went up to that we were going up to this 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:47.880 basin um that like you're going up this pass, you 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:51.279 wouldn't really guess it's up there. Canyon gets real narrowed 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:53.040 as a big glacier in it, But all of a sudden, 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:57.680 it's like it's giant basin and we slip up in there, 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.280 and it had snowed the night before. This is just 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.760 what I a week ago, two weeks ago, snow the 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.039 night before, and we get there, your sheep tracks running 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:07.840 everywhere in that new snow, and I'm like, god, we 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.760 blew them out, Like how that happened? Like you must 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.240 have spooked him? And then wet looking at all the tracks. Really, 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:16.760 there's wolf tracks running all over zigzagging around, and then 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.560 we find where all the sheep went and hid rams used. 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:22.920 Everybody's sitting on a rock pile in a way that 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.240 they normally wouldn't like arrange themselves. And it's because like 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.000 they clearly like I got into a big line and 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:30.920 went up on top of a cliff and were sat 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.360 up there, and I don't know how long we wandered, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.880 around an hour. And also there's the wolves up on 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.440 the other ridge. I started wailing on a predator call. 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:42.720 And I can't really say this for certain or not, 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:45.159 but they like gave a look or didn't just happen 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.440 to look but didn't really care. No, they didn't care 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:50.160 at all. I feel like they gave a look. Oh, 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.520 they gave a look. Yeah they were. There was a 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.600 gray one and a black one and they were like 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.560 up on this ridge and then they'd like disappear from 0:06:57.600 --> 0:06:59.200 the ridge and then all of a sudden, you'd like 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.960 see a head pop up and look, did they know 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.760 you guys were there? I don't think they didn't know either. 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:08.400 There yards away. I don't think they knew they were Oh. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.320 It was also weird as these are sheep, I don't 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:16.360 I'm not saying the only hunt sheep. They were hunting sheep. Absolutely, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:19.840 their whole groove was they were hunting sheep. But the 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:22.000 weird thing is, all of a sudden, he kicked up 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.720 a u one you that ran from the They kicked 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.120 her out of the craggy stuff and she ran down 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:33.120 into an open bowl and they didn't chase her. M 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:39.680 I'm like, that seems like the the whole plan. That's 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.200 that's what you want to where they can get her 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:45.360 what they keep on doing? What we couldn't tell because 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.480 they dropped out of you. I would have thought we 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.560 were like get ready. Yeah, I was thinking that they're 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:53.600 just gonna come chase her, and they're gonna come, you know, 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.760 close to us. It didn't they didn't like something. But 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.160 I got all lined up. Um, in the unit we're in, 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.160 you don't even need there's no locket for non resident 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.560 only need a locking tag. I was gonna have. I 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.440 was gonna make breakfast sausage film, an episode of pardoned 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.440 my plate and have that big old wolf hide all 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:21.960 in one. That have been your first one, right, that 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:25.680 black that black one is pretty. I was literally I 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.600 told my brother, my brother has zero interesting, like he 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:32.480 lives in Alaska like zero interested grizzlies. He likes him, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.560 but hunting him like not. It just doesn't even register 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.520 with them. Zero interesting wolves wolf hunting. I said, dude, 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:42.360 you can think of me like Cruella de Ville. Man, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:50.120 I want that wolf hide so bad. He does not 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.320 get it, like, doesn't get it. Could you tell by 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.199 the tracks, like how they were hunting them or no? 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:58.960 Like do you think those they stumbled upon those sheep 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:00.679 or do you think they were following them for a 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:02.880 while or can you not? Here's my theory based on 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:08.439 absolutely nothing. Ahead Um, I understand from conversations with the 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.320 bush Pilot that there are always a bunch of us 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:17.360 in that basin always. I think that they have a 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:22.880 little sort of checklist, a little mental map, and they 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:27.199 come in there and whatever periodically and run around Raise Hill. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.959 But this is just based on nothing. Yeah, well it 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.559 sounds solid, Lamb Now, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah. Those 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.520 wolves are definitely like ridge runners, like they're up there 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:40.360 looking for sheep. And I felt that when they didn't 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:45.520 chase the one, Danny postulated that they must have killed 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.880 the lamb. Oh, and we went up there and looked, 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.680 and you would have definitely known it was there because 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.079 the snow and we couldn't find what was going on. 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:58.120 But then weirdly we find not near not there a 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:02.600 ways away, found a dead lamb him a little ram lamb. 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:09.160 Is that a thing? Yea, a ram lamb hadn't been touched. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.559 We're going down his cut and I'm like, that's a 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.000 weird place for a snow patch still be lingering because 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:20.640 there's no snow around to its death. Listen, man, I 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:25.679 gave it like an amateur knee crops. I gave it 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.839 an amateur knee cropsy and determined that there were no um, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:38.840 no visible injuries. But I feel that it's rear left 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:48.559 leg rear right leg was busted at the femur based 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:54.200 on a very amateur that being my first ever doll 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:59.439 sheep lamb knee cropsy, I feel that that's that that 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.880 leg pretty wonky and comfortable, hadn't even had its eyes 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:08.959 pecked yet. Oh wow, so fresh in fact that we 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.079 kicked a you. We're going down out of there and 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.839 we're like kind of like out of sheep country and 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:16.679 here comes to you and we're like, what the hell 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.599 is she doing? Like why, like won you in that 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:24.120 weird place and we didn't see her with it, but 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:29.800 she left that spot within a like not a lot 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.080 of precision because you just couldn't see down that area 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.839 at that time. But anyways, one came out. It was 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.800 weird enough that we commented on it and then got 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.840 down in that zone and there was that dead lamb. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.640 So maybe you guys spooked it and spoke no because 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:47.280 its hair was starting to slip fresh enough that you 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.920 guys considered considered well no, because I didn't want to 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.960 get you can't do that kind of stuff. I don't 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:57.839 think you can do that, Yeah, with a sheep. I'm 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:00.600 sure they'd probably frown on that. Yeah, I don't think 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:02.280 you can be like, oh, I like I got a 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.199 bunch of sheep meat because I found I think that 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.199 they would say, like, that's not your I don't know 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.280 how you'd take possession of that thing. I noticed when 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.120 if you're done, when you're done doing your like little 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:18.319 examination there, my clothes were colded in hair. Yeah, I 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.839 saw your pants cheap hair all over him. I was like, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:23.800 that's gonna be a tough one to explain if I 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.320 actually I actually we were waiting to get picked up 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.520 I actually went through and tried to remove it all 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.559 because it'd be like a trooper like, but so why 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:41.600 are you coding and cheap hair again? I'm like, listen, hey, 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.520 quick survey here in the in the room. If you 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.320 guys ever get a bear rug or bare amount done, 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:50.800 you're gonna go close mouth or open mouth, and Steve, 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.080 I'm going closed. I like that one. I don't. I don't. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:59.719 I don't I know about your idea about like like that, 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.600 like seeing the mouth. I know a guy has multiple 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.439 open mouse and like all the all the teeth are missing, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.839 the tongue is broken out just because they're boxing like 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.679 it's on the ground. They just boxally kick them with 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.800 their choe or whatever breaks teeth out. My kids jumping 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.640 around on those, I'm always afraid they're gonna bust the 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:18.160 ears off. That's why I hang them up on the 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.560 wall because they're like riding on it using the ears 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:23.560 as handles and stuff. It's like they can't put up 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:25.280 with that kind of stuff. I was gonna say, Steve, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:30.040 have you ever seen the mounts that are They're they're 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.120 pretty much a rug and they're the rug shell, but 0:13:32.200 --> 0:13:33.920 there's no felt and they're meant to hang on the 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:38.600 wall like some people call a trapper's mount. Is one 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.400 of those with a white tailed buck? Oh that's sick. 0:13:41.880 --> 0:13:44.040 That's awesome. Yeah, that's what I would do. I like 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:47.520 those barbars. I don't. I would not do the felt 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.400 not a felt person. Okay, all right? Joined today by 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:56.400 Rick Hutton. Yeah, freshly married? Yeah like that? Yeah, yeah, 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.800 that's awesome. I like the married life. What what is that? 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.120 How if you had to rate his best man speech? Yeah, 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.679 one to ten. I think he did it. I'll give 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:10.800 him a solid nine. Yeah, he sure gave himself and nine. Yeah. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.959 I asked him, I said you did anybody laughs a 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:20.080 few times? Yeah. I even told him like because I didn't. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:21.600 We went into the wedding. I was like, Steve or 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:23.560 I was like, Seth, I didn't even talk to you 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.040 really bad. I was like, but do you want to 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.720 do the best man's speech? You don't have to if 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:28.400 you don't want. He's like all the day of the wedding. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.320 I think it was like two days, but two days. 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.680 Just have that he's getting up there, because that would 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.840 be that would dishearten him. Yeah, no, no, you want 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.440 to give best man speech. I even said like, I 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.800 didn't even I just assumed I never talked to you 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:45.160 about it though, But do you want to do this? 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.120 And he's like, oh yeah, I got something planned everything. 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:50.400 I'm like, okay, yeah, man, he did good. He made 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.360 everyone laugh, was good, so I was happy with it. Yeah, 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:57.680 how are things over? F h F gear good? Really busy, 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:01.080 extremely busy. We got a lot of cool stuff in prototype, 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:05.000 a lot of growth happening. But it's August. It's so whatever, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:07.960 busiest months of the year. What's the most exciting thing 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:12.920 you guys got coming up? Whatever? Now? Future think of 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.000 what I can talk about. They don't want to say anything. Yeah, listen, man, 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.800 that's that's an offline conversation. But I gotta adjust your 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.640 thinking on that. Okay, alright, it's fine. If you gave 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:26.200 me five minutes, I could. I feel like I would 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.160 In three minutes, I feel like I would make you 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:33.000 reconsider everything you think about that. So it's not so 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.400 much my thinking too. It's top down stuff being told 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:41.040 than two just making sure that thinking. Okay, well, let's 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:44.360 let's let's chat about that. Yeah, let's chat about that. Um, 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.160 we have some cool stuff coming out for fall more 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:51.240 along another accessory for our chest rig will have that 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:54.080 more diversify the use of that. It's more in that 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:59.920 foul kind of hunting realm uh. And then some backpack 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.400 accessory that you can use. So we have that come 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.240 out fall here probably a couple of weeks after this 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.520 podcast gets out there, and then twenty January of twenty 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.640 two will be a big year or a big time 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:13.640 for us. Will be launching a bunch of new products, 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.240 uh for the more for the rifle hunter. So yeah, 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.680 it'll be real exciting. We're finalizing a lot of that now, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:26.520 so excellent. Joined also by Brody. Hello, who's got a 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.360 tell everybody how many legs your bear has? Brodie three 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:34.000 and a half. No, but I'm gonna send it off 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.600 to that guy. Um. Yeah, I shot a bear last 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.440 fall that I still haven't sent the hide anywhere in Colorado. 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:45.400 It is a big, big bore, big head, lots of 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.680 fat um. But he had he was missing the lower half. 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.920 I gotta think about this lower half of his left 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.120 front leg and it basically at what would be the 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.080 elbow on a person, and it was just all healed 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:03.560 over recorded and fat. Yeah, Like I think I got 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.120 four gallons that rendered fat off him. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.760 I mean you had some of it. Um, He's like, 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.560 I actually like it better without this foot. Yeah, and 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:16.080 like totally healed over. It looked like it had been 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:19.680 surgically removed. You know, there was just fur growing on 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.760 its skin there um for growing on it. Yeah. And 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:26.119 when I took it into to get it checked in, 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.560 obviously it's all speculation, like the one the lady who 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:32.959 checked it in said maybe it was an illegal snare 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.520 when you know it was a cub or maybe a 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.920 boar had ripped its leg off or a hunter had 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:44.800 shot it years ago, who knows, But it didn't affect him. 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.680 You know, he's an older bear. They figured ten to 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:52.480 twelve years old. That dude, John Hayes, the tax names 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.440 I was talking to you, I was bragging up. I 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:57.840 was showing him a picture of a bear I had 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.960 that was seventeen that I got age at seventeen. He 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.280 had a bear come through there that had been aged 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:08.960 in its thirties. Yeah. I can't remember exactly what I remember. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:12.000 I think the oldest documented is something like thirty nine. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.040 Maybe I don't don't know if that's right, but I 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:16.240 think that might be right. Yeah, they can get a 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.200 lot older than than ten. Uh. Joined also by Seth 0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:25.560 Morris Folks fresh off of Best Man speech, Phil Taylor 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.879 recently engaged. Yeah, we covered that, We covered down the 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:36.520 whole episode, but still there's context here for that. Yeah, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.120 it's good. It's still engaged, still engaged, still feeling it. Yeah, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.439 we're making plans, sweet man. And then uh, Janice, who 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.000 a couple of big milestones, drew his first big horn 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.920 tag and ran his first something. That's right, what a 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.720 lucky guy? Tell us now what you're ringing? The Bridge 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.080 or Ridge Run, which is like maybe the kind of 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:05.600 the most popular, um best known Bozeman local race. Did 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:07.919 you place in a way that you were satisfied with yourself? 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.080 I wasn't really good going for I didn't have a 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:15.000 goal around placement. I shouldn't say place. Did you perform 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.800 in a way that satisfied yourself very very much? So 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:25.919 you gotta describe layout, the specs of the It's roughly 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:30.200 twenty miles, depends. There's some different routes you can change 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.399 take it at certain points. It's kind of choose your 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.720 own adventure a little bit. But you can be between 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.119 nineteen and twenty miles. I think I probably ran. It 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.080 ran like a nineteen in a quarter mile version. Um. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:49.280 And it starts at Fairy Lake the trailhead, and uh, 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.560 you climb up to the pass above Fairy Lakes. I 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.080 don't know the name of the passes, but then you 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.760 go up to Sackage away a peak and then basically 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.760 from there you just run on the actual spine of 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:08.119 the Bridger Mountains, uh, through Ross Pass, around Ross Peak, 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.360 and then all the way past Bridge or ski Resort, 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.200 Saddle Mountain, Bald Mountain, and then down to the m 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:21.960 trail head. Um, and uh, you gain about seventy feet 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.719 and I believe you lose about feet in those really 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:34.440 nineteen miles. Hold you climb that's with ups and down? 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:36.720 Yeah yeah yeah not at one time, No, no, I 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:42.159 got you, but like total gain? Yeah, how long it 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:48.720 took me five hours, seventeen minutes. I feel the same way. 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:51.560 What I'm worried about now is now I feel like, 0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:54.000 now you just didn't smoke me when we're out hiking around. 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.359 I don't know, man, I did a backpack trip right 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.440 on the heels of that, and I remember thinking myself, it, Uh, 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:03.359 you know, just because you're in running shape doesn't mean 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:05.399 you're in backpackage. I know. That's the things that I 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.040 always rely on is like, um, there's not it's its 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.680 own thing. Yeah, it's its own thing. A lot of 0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:13.600 times people think that they're good at something else. They 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:15.639 didn't gonna tear it up. You always do this thing 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.399 where your first time of the year as a sheet 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:22.360 hunt too, like he come out of gateheart. Yeah, Seth 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.160 is all bragging up all he took it. He took 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:25.560 it a run in a mile and a half every 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:32.880 morning with his wife, girlfriend, whatever hell in between. Yeah, 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.280 it helped a lot. I think I felt great during it. Sheep. 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:40.520 Oh yeah it helps. Yeah. And so okay, so you're 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:44.359 you're pleased with your performance. I don't want to like people. 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.960 I was hoping for a like around like a five 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.040 and a half hour finished time. You know I did 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:55.760 it whatever thirteen minutes faster. And how educated was your hope? Well, 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:57.840 because I had done it on my own couple of 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.000 years prior, and I did it. I did it in 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.600 like six twenty but it was very casual. I was 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:06.280 I had to carry all my own water. I so 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.439 I carried like ten pounds of water when I did 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.359 it on my own. So I carried a gallon and 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:15.520 a half of water, um and now we had eight stations. 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.920 The whole event was really cool. Like, I highly recommend 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.320 anybody it's in. Like looking, I don't want you to 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.720 take away my spot next year because they about five 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.120 people five or six hundred people apply and they let 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:30.040 in three hundred. So it's a lottery to get in 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.240 because you can like the race can only support it's 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.840 a lottery draw. Yeah. Well, like if you've done it 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.879 ten years or more, I think if you're a top place, 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.480 top three place finisher in your age group, there's a 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.119 couple of things that will get you in every year. Umbuddy, 0:22:46.240 --> 0:22:49.120 every buddy Rick Smith is running more than ten times, 0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:53.159 so he's just automatically in at during that five hours. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.040 How often could you huck a rock and hit another 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:04.159 person if you ban I probably only ran out of 0:23:04.240 --> 0:23:07.240 five hours. I probably only ran really by myself for 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.160 maybe an hour out in ninety minutes, not much. There's 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.200 usually someone around, somebody around. Yeah, I think we went 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.520 through four or five eight stations, which was great. Like 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:19.840 a lot of people cheering, helping you on. They really 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.680 take care of you because there's a lot of exposure, 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:24.360 right when you get up there, the sun's out there, 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.520 the smoke um can be a factor and um. So 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.480 they really they check your BIB number twice at every 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.159 aid station, Like on the way in, there's two different 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:36.600 groups going okay, number two oh five just came in, 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:38.879 somebody else marks it, and then ten steps later that 0:23:38.960 --> 0:23:43.040 you didn't peel off the ridge and have a heat somewhere. Yeah, exactly, yeah. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:45.080 And then I actually got held up for five minutes, 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:47.919 so right there, I'm down to actually like five twelve. 0:23:48.960 --> 0:23:51.840 But at the final eight station, the main like med 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.359 nurse doctor was like, hey, how you feeling. I'm like, 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:57.400 I'm feeling great, and she's kind of patting me down. 0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:00.119 She's like, you're not sweating. I'm like, yeah, I'm had 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.119 a big sweater. I'm telling you, I've been like pounding 0:24:02.119 --> 0:24:04.520 the water. I've drink at least six liters of water 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:07.320 since I started. I feel great. And she's like, nope, 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:09.520 come back here, and she turned me around and I 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:11.520 went she had She took me to like this ice 0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.200 station and they basically crammed my vest in my shirt 0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.119 full of ice and she said take these two other 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:19.800 pieces holding in your hands and you know, keep going, 0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:22.440 but she would you have done if you just ran 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:27.879 off in order to keep your time. Oh it's funny 0:24:27.920 --> 0:24:31.040 because like they're like, look, you're not getting top three, 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.359 so just like take care of yourself. That's kind of 0:24:33.359 --> 0:24:35.800 the whole attitude of the whole thing is like nobody 0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:37.720 cares how fast you run. Let's all make sure we 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:39.879 can do it, have a good time. If you run 0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:42.800 across somebody that's struggling, ask me if they need help, 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.400 offer him some food, whatever. And I saw a lot 0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.240 of that because I came out very conservative. I didn't 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:50.920 even make a running stride for probably the first five 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:54.080 or six miles. And even then when I would like 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:55.920 catch up to a group and we'd be on something flat, 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:58.040 everybody else would go into like a jogging kind of 0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:00.639 a pace or look, and I just kind of do 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.200 like a fast walk and stretch my legs and kind 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:06.200 of keep up with that same pace. Uh. But like 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:09.040 two three hours into it, I started to overcome people 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.440 that went in earlier waves and they'd have like almost 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.359 like a zombie like look, you know a little bit 0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:18.680 like whether I getting myself into the bridge or ridge 0:25:18.720 --> 0:25:21.880 walk doesn't sound nearly as cool. No, no, no, listen. 0:25:21.960 --> 0:25:24.119 I watch a lot of it. You know, I'm not 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:27.000 running up that super steep stuff. The fastest I think 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:30.600 this year was around like three and a half three 0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:35.240 forty five. The course record is three hours. It stood 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:38.480 for quite some time, I think, uh, and then I 0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:42.600 think I got eighth in in the mail nine age group. 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.080 I got sixty out of two fifty people, and the 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:49.160 last person to finish was close to ten hours this year. 0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:57.040 Dart Or. Yeah, but I saw Kurt Smith like, it's 0:25:57.080 --> 0:25:59.040 funny because you just don't know who's involved in it 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:01.480 in this community. At the very first I think it 0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:05.320 was on top of Yeah, Kurt Smith from Shapna is 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:07.440 up there with like two gallons of water, just cheering 0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:11.240 everybody on and filling everybody's water bottles up, and yeah, 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.280 that's cool. Hey, I want to see how good you are, younnie. 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:17.560 Um you could you know how you mentioned smoke? Okay, 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:22.000 you could segue off that to two very important things 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.639 happening in this room right now. I want you to 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:31.960 do a segue for each. Okay, speaking of smoke. When 0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:35.320 I saw Brody post a picture of this lake trout 0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:37.680 that he smoked, I was like, man, it looked a 0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:43.400 little dark. This is this gonna turn into a comment sandwich? Um, well, 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:46.160 I haven't tried it. It's sitting right here in front 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:48.240 of us. I can smell it. It smells good. And 0:26:48.359 --> 0:26:50.840 so I was gonna ask if maybe the dark color 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.600 was you know, he did on purpose. He might have 0:26:53.640 --> 0:26:58.679 put a syrup glazeuph you did, Okay, let me hear 0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:03.920 you seg what the other thing? It's been very smoky 0:27:04.040 --> 0:27:07.159 here the last uh, I don't know, six eight weeks. 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:09.760 It's interesting though, I found this year how it seems 0:27:09.800 --> 0:27:13.600 like like this morning, right at daylight seven am, it 0:27:13.760 --> 0:27:17.920 was almost bluebird, and then by like nine like it's 0:27:18.040 --> 0:27:19.880 it's rolling in. It seems like I've had I've seen 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:23.320 a lot of days where super smoky then it clears 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:29.040 out vice versa. Anyways, but we have a to educate 0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:32.359 all of us. As our main guest today we have 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:37.439 Paul Hessburg, who's gonna tell us all about wildfires. Man, 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.879 he nailed it. That was good. Watch this segue. You 0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:47.480 know who didn't nail it? Here it comes you overcooked 0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:50.040 it a little bit. Man, I like it a little here. 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:53.600 That's good though, man, Oh I thought it was great, 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:56.840 very good, especially on a cracker, but you chipped a 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.760 little bit. Just I mean, I'm not gonna know what. 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.520 I'm not gonna fie you put it back on for 0:28:02.640 --> 0:28:05.520 like I'm not gonna infantilize you by building a component sandwich. 0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:07.280 I'm just gonna give it to you straight. Yeah. I 0:28:07.359 --> 0:28:09.680 get I get shipped from be honest about my bear grease. 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:11.879 I get shipped about my smoke lake shout from you. 0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:13.760 I shouldn't even bring it in for you. Just know 0:28:13.880 --> 0:28:18.320 I love it. It's extremely good. It just went past 0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:22.960 its glossy phase. It lost. I lost. I like it 0:28:23.359 --> 0:28:26.240 a little da Packing it around in a backpack. That 0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:29.320 moist stuff is just you know, get smashed and ship. 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:35.520 Damn boy, you can have a whole mess on your hands, 0:28:35.560 --> 0:28:37.399 no matter how clean you try to be out there 0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:39.520 in the woods, and then you just got greasy hands 0:28:39.560 --> 0:28:42.920 all day. Oh yeah you didn't. You gotta provide a 0:28:43.000 --> 0:28:45.600 quick little bit of detail. We have a lot we 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:50.760 gotta do. But the drew a sheep take. Not really. 0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:54.400 I've been kind of keeping it on the d L 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.360 because I just figured to go try to a lot 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:03.080 of attention. Um, you can probably snoop around and figure 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:06.000 out where I drew it. It's in Colorado, So should 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:10.240 I not brought it up? Just say a different, say 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:14.560 a lie about where it is. But by this point 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:18.920 in time when you're hearing this, hopefully I'm gonna have 0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:24.600 a dead ram on my hands. But you know, there's 0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.480 a high demand on sheep in general, and I've been 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:30.400 asked by multiple people if I wouldn't mind just like 0:29:30.520 --> 0:29:33.920 not mentioning like where the actual you know, unit is, 0:29:34.640 --> 0:29:40.880 just to like not create unneeded attention. Um, But yeah, 0:29:41.040 --> 0:29:43.480 I'm going like I said you, I'll be hunting probably 0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:46.240 when you're listening to this. But I'm going down in 0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:49.800 two days to start scouting season open September seven, So 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:53.400 I'm hoping that i'll have one tied up to the tree, 0:29:53.800 --> 0:29:57.000 as they say, and be able to put some cross 0:29:57.040 --> 0:29:59.520 airs on him morning of the seventh. All right, man, 0:30:00.800 --> 0:30:03.640 uh quick update, So you're good there because you're not 0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:06.320 looking to really overdo it. What do you mean? I 0:30:06.360 --> 0:30:09.320 mean you're you're good on talking about it? Oh, I 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.200 don't mean I can keep talking about it. I've been 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:13.640 having a lot of fun. I've got I've been building 0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:16.320 a gear list. I was gonna mention this. I just 0:30:16.440 --> 0:30:19.680 decided I was making a gear list for my own purposes. 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:26.760 Very good, Brody, A little dry, it's a big it's 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:29.280 almost got like a hint of citrus nous in there 0:30:30.760 --> 0:30:33.360 is that? Did you put like some kind of It's 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:35.760 just it was just a dry Brian brown, sugar and 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:37.920 salt and then the little maple syrup at the end. 0:30:38.120 --> 0:30:41.680 Smoke lake trout the bag Brody gave me, says grease Ball. Yeah, 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:44.880 that's a derogatory lake trout term. Yeah, I don't know. 0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:46.960 People just don't know what's going on. Oh my god, 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:48.840 it's good. I'm telling you. If you went to like 0:30:49.000 --> 0:30:52.160 a whatever they call him, fish house, smoke house or whatever, 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:55.560 you would have to pay probably, what do you think, 0:30:55.800 --> 0:30:58.280 at least twenty bucks, if not thirty bucks a pound 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:03.760 for something like that. Yeah, that's good, way better than 0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:07.280 smoked salmon. Anyways. I so I was making a gear list. 0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:09.520 I wouldn't forget anything. This is the one hunt I 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:15.520 really want to be extra dialed in on. Ah and uh, 0:31:15.720 --> 0:31:18.720 look at this, you're gonna be impressed. You probably don't 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:24.640 even know what Google sheet is. What's your looking attridge 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:28.880 of choice? I'm going six five rpm? Good choice. Yeah. 0:31:29.400 --> 0:31:31.960 So I'm looking at Yi's a little deal here. He's 0:31:31.960 --> 0:31:35.239 got a miscellaneous category which covers things such as uh, 0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:41.760 dragon polls, his bear as, his bear defense system down 0:31:41.840 --> 0:31:44.920 through by. It's weird the binos is in miscellaneous, not 0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:49.800 in optics, well, because the optics sort of package fell 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:53.880 in under the zone of in my backpack optics, not 0:31:54.200 --> 0:31:57.080 the worn or carried optics, and that's why I fell 0:31:57.120 --> 0:32:00.040 into he's even got pundages. Okay, so he's got a 0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:04.120 fel on Ammo, so all the things are going to shooting. Yeah, 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:12.400 in the poundages, and I've got dash worn so what 0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:15.800 you're bringing, what you're wearing, correct, He's got his food 0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:21.520 right all the way down to electro light tablets. He's 0:32:21.560 --> 0:32:25.120 got his gear at truck in case of worsening weather. 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:28.280 How many days are you prepared to be in there 0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:31.480 at a time? Oh, I can't think I could easily do. 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:36.080 I don't know what the limit would probably like. How 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:38.800 like when you go in, where do you Well, I'm 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:40.880 gonna go scout for just like three or four days, 0:32:41.160 --> 0:32:43.600 so I'll pack food for that, and then when we 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:48.680 go back in, um, I'll probably pack for five or 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:52.240 six something like that? Is it? Tough to get in there. Yeah, 0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:55.160 depending on where are you park and where we kind 0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:59.080 of want to start in in what what drainage? Uh 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:02.920 like where I saw the sheep when I went into scout, 0:33:03.040 --> 0:33:07.440 I was almost nine miles from the truck. But pretty 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:13.200 easy approach, Pretty just like straightforward flat trail system. More 0:33:13.240 --> 0:33:16.840 sot us filling in now since slow to load. Oh, 0:33:17.520 --> 0:33:24.880 it's way more. Okay, it's just been slow to fill in. Okay, system. 0:33:25.080 --> 0:33:28.200 He's got a pack category, a water category, but how 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.680 to deal with water, and there is an optics category. 0:33:32.280 --> 0:33:36.440 It's just it's been populating slowly. A shelter in sleep category, 0:33:36.640 --> 0:33:43.000 a cooking category, a medikit category, emergency kit category. Are 0:33:43.000 --> 0:33:51.720 you going light on the shelter? That miscellaneous ut scouting? 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:57.360 I'm just gonna run and then uh, when I go 0:33:57.640 --> 0:34:02.160 in with the photographer for the actual hunt, we're gonna 0:34:02.240 --> 0:34:07.640 split the Stone Glaciers skyscraper. So that's like a little 0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:09.279 over four pounds, So will each be it, you know, 0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:13.000 a couple of pounds for Yeah, but I'm happy I 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:17.120 got my kid down to roughly. Uh, if I'm going 0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:22.279 in solo, thirty five pounds no food or water. So 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:24.759 if I go in five days. That's ten pounds of food. 0:34:24.800 --> 0:34:27.000 That's up to forty five in the add You know, 0:34:27.040 --> 0:34:30.800 however much water you're gonna carry half a gallon before pounds. 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:35.719 What's uh, what's a boned out sheep way in the 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:39.399 cape and the head man. I was actually just talking 0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:42.400 to Carrasco about that, and he feels that you can 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:45.640 get a whole boned out sheep if you are diligent 0:34:45.719 --> 0:34:49.280 about trimming um into one of the stone glacier load cells. 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:51.800 So I'm actually gonna maybe splip my program and just 0:34:51.880 --> 0:34:54.880 carry one of those and not carrying any game bags. 0:34:54.960 --> 0:34:58.759 Maybe one extra in case there's like overflow, you know um, 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:00.840 or maybe a place a way to wrap up the 0:35:00.920 --> 0:35:04.439 cape in the head. But he said about sixty six 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.719 pounds boned out the head and cape. You know, I 0:35:08.760 --> 0:35:11.600 didn't ask him that I should have a good use. 0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:17.279 Capes are valuable. Very The fund's calendar left up old 0:35:17.280 --> 0:35:19.960 deer stands calendar. There was granted, it was supposed to 0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:25.160 be a book. We haven't ruled that out. Listen at 0:35:26.520 --> 0:35:30.400 that sold out and so that it went from coffee 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:33.080 table book to calendar. Because I had to prove the concept. 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:37.439 I know kind of concept people just like being upset about. Listen, 0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:40.200 you can't tell people you're making a fine art coffee 0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:43.759 table book and then give him a calendar. But you can. 0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:49.800 But I'm at the general public that got upset. We 0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:52.799 spent months, general public, we have spent months talking about 0:35:52.920 --> 0:35:55.600 a fine art coffee table book. Well, Steve, you seem upset, 0:35:55.640 --> 0:35:59.120 but you were proven right that this is a redemption story. Dude. Listen. Yeah, 0:35:59.640 --> 0:36:03.520 this is like the do you know that when uh, 0:36:04.600 --> 0:36:07.560 It's a Wonderful Life? Of course, yeah, do you know 0:36:07.640 --> 0:36:11.600 what tanked commercially? It tanked critically. The company that the 0:36:12.520 --> 0:36:15.839 company that produced that movie went out of business based 0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:19.400 on the financial loss of It's a Wonderful Life and 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.319 what happened in the end fill classic. Watch it every year, 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:25.359 every American family. Every American family watches it every year. 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:27.880 Years from now, every deer hunter in America. I'll have 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:33.560 that book. This is a story like that. We did 0:36:33.640 --> 0:36:37.880 the calendar and we had a what I uh, Savannah 0:36:38.200 --> 0:36:43.040 called it a modest print run or some word like modesty. 0:36:43.440 --> 0:36:46.160 I called it a robust print run. I think it 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:49.600 was a good number to go with Initially, twenty four 0:36:49.640 --> 0:36:59.400 hours gone but we reordered a sheph load. More naysayers 0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:03.279 have been silence. Yes, and everyone who's pissed the first 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:05.759 day came out and it sold out. You will get 0:37:05.840 --> 0:37:08.879 your chance to get one. I feel a robust print run. 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:13.840 Sold out in twenty four hours, out in a few hours, 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:17.960 and now we ordered four x. Yeah that print run. 0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:21.040 I think, can you put your name out like, notify 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:23.160 me when available as they got prey of something like 0:37:23.200 --> 0:37:26.720 that going on. I think so new episode of Media 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:29.680 to the TV show hitting Netflix September twenty nine, some 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:33.160 market calendars, new season, not just one? What I say 0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.000 episode new season? Can we give him any hints as 0:37:36.040 --> 0:37:38.160 to what Rick and Seth are in it? Rick and Seth? 0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:43.840 That's true? Uh, we we recomment it. Our buddy else 0:37:44.120 --> 0:37:48.480 is in it? Who's that? Luke Holmes? Oh, Luke Holmes 0:37:48.560 --> 0:37:53.560 is in it? The dogs in it? The dogs in it? Minga. 0:37:53.960 --> 0:38:11.040 Can you play that quick film? Let's do it? Uh? 0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:15.279 We talked about we recorded so Seth and you'll you'll 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:19.040 meet Rick and in uh Seth again and there is 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:20.640 that your first time on the act on the show, 0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:24.880 the Netflix show. Yes, Yeah, I never had a cameo. 0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:28.080 Y'all needs to do cameos all time. No cameo, you 0:38:28.200 --> 0:38:30.600 hast not done anything. I did realize though, that our 0:38:30.680 --> 0:38:35.200 beaver hunting or beaver trapping episode hit mainstream television because 0:38:35.200 --> 0:38:37.879 I've been getting a lot of notifications about that. Oh yeah, yeah, 0:38:38.040 --> 0:38:41.680 outdoor channel. I didn't know what was happening. That's cool. Uh. 0:38:42.360 --> 0:38:44.960 The Chip and the poof was the previous episode episode. 0:38:46.000 --> 0:38:47.760 If you want to revisit the Chip and the Poof, 0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:51.800 Uh about our Flintlock hunt. So when you watch the 0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:53.800 show on September twenty nine, you can skip ahead of 0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:55.719 the Flintlock one and you'll meet uh, you'll meet Rick 0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:59.040 and Seth. Yep, I think about that Rick. That was 0:38:59.040 --> 0:39:01.520 back when you weren't even mare. Yeah, it wasn't married. 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:03.320 That was before I was engaged. Is that when you 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:08.719 taught dirt myth about a hang fire? If you go 0:39:08.800 --> 0:39:11.000 on Instagram on the one that was so sometime around 0:39:11.120 --> 0:39:14.200 last Christmas, If you go on Instagram so at Stephen Ronellan, 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:17.040 you go watch like the World's Greatest hang fire video, 0:39:19.200 --> 0:39:24.719 dirts like run you scoundrels, trigger, like Forever goes by 0:39:24.800 --> 0:39:28.560 it all. He was he was like lower away and 0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.040 it was like a fuse burning straight out of Looney Tunes. 0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:36.680 It was crazy. Yeah, it's dangerous. I'm writing an article 0:39:36.840 --> 0:39:39.640 for the website that the nuts and bolts of it 0:39:39.840 --> 0:39:42.239 is gonna be the gear list, so you can check 0:39:42.280 --> 0:39:46.600 it out and see what we're using. And um, I 0:39:46.680 --> 0:39:48.560 think if that gear list can definitely be applied for 0:39:48.600 --> 0:39:53.080 an early season dear Archery elk hunt as well. It's 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:57.040 good but inspired by this, but used for many other press. 0:39:57.080 --> 0:40:00.640 I look forward on the meat eater dot com. Uh, 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:03.160 the whole thing about when I screwed up that word 0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:07.000 mackerel fructation when it was supposed to be mackerel fructification. Well, 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:11.200 some guys sent in this. He looked up Google search 0:40:11.320 --> 0:40:14.600 trends for macero fructification and found that it had not 0:40:14.800 --> 0:40:20.440 been googled in a single time in five years. Then 0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:23.360 when we talked about it in July two thousand twenty 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:28.320 one in the episode Cat Scratch Fever, it got searched 0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:32.200 a hundred times. People. Well, I think that's a really 0:40:32.320 --> 0:40:36.400 I think that graph you're looking at is a relative scale, 0:40:36.560 --> 0:40:38.319 so it's not literally a hundred times, but I mean 0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.080 I think it's showing you, like the relative difference in 0:40:41.160 --> 0:40:44.720 the so it's probably a lot more than a hundred, 0:40:44.800 --> 0:40:47.120 but also probably was googled at least once or twice 0:40:47.160 --> 0:40:49.560 in the last five years. It got um, yeah, quite 0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:52.160 a spike. But we did a T shirt run, a 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:56.279 Mackerel fructification T shirt run, but they're all gone. That 0:40:56.400 --> 0:41:02.600 was a that was a modest print run. That was 0:41:02.719 --> 0:41:05.359 that that itself was a modest print collector's items. Now 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:20.920 seth breakdown the the I call this a civil rights issue, 0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:24.680 the civil rights issue of Sunday hunting in Pennsylvania. Give 0:41:24.760 --> 0:41:28.680 us the give us the whole you know, the whole deal. Yeah. So, Um, 0:41:29.560 --> 0:41:31.880 for as long as I know you weren't able to 0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:35.520 hunt on Sundays in Pennsylvania. We talked about this in 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.600 the episode, so check it out. But um, last year 0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:43.839 was the first year they allowed three Sundays of hunting. UM, 0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:48.479 which was the last Sunday of archery season, the first 0:41:48.560 --> 0:41:53.520 Sunday of it was the first first Sunday for the 0:41:53.640 --> 0:41:57.920 rifle season, and then one of the Sundays during bear season. Um. 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:01.759 But right now, there's a bill send it, Bill six 0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:06.280 o seven that was introduced that would pass Sunday hunting 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.680 authority fully from the legislator of the Pennsylvania Game Commission, 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:16.760 which currently has the authority to only allow three Sundays. 0:42:17.040 --> 0:42:19.719 So it gives them the right to do it, yes, 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:22.000 but you don't know if they will do it or 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:24.440 is that the assumption that's I mean the assumption. I 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.160 think the Game Commission is on board. And there's like 0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:30.279 there's like lots of studies that show how this will 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:34.600 help economically. It gives more opportunity to like, you know, 0:42:34.760 --> 0:42:37.719 people that are out of staters that want to come 0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:40.839 hunt Pennsylvania. But like, you only hunt one day during 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:46.400 the weekend. So just for the for the average person 0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:50.640 knocking out, like a your school teacher, and you got 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:55.080 obligations Monday through any help, any like infinite number of occupations. 0:42:55.120 --> 0:42:57.640 Butt's just say a school teacher, you got obligations Monday 0:42:57.719 --> 0:43:00.080 through Friday to keep you damn you until dark the 0:43:00.120 --> 0:43:04.040 winner and then someone then the government's staying. Oh and 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.960 of the two days you can hunt, uh, you can 0:43:07.040 --> 0:43:09.319 only hunt one of them. Like if you don't want 0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:11.520 to go hunting, and you want to go to your 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:15.280 local church, go to your local church. Yeah, just because 0:43:15.320 --> 0:43:18.600 you doesn't no one's no one's like making you go 0:43:18.920 --> 0:43:20.719 just because you're allowed to hunt on Sunday doesn't mean 0:43:20.719 --> 0:43:22.960 you have to. I know years ago Seth and I 0:43:23.040 --> 0:43:25.680 added this up. But if you bow hunted and then 0:43:25.800 --> 0:43:28.719 rifle hunted in Pennsylvania and you took the opening day 0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:32.520 years ago, which traditionally is the Monday after Thanksgiving, if 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.759 you took that as your holiday, but you didn't take 0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:37.759 any other days off, um, and you didn't hunt the 0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:42.239 flintlock season. This wasn't accounting that backup. So I wasn't 0:43:42.239 --> 0:43:45.400 ready for this level of thinking about Okay, just the 0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:50.480 average joe in Pennsylvania. If you yes, yes, So if 0:43:50.520 --> 0:43:55.200 you bow hunted the entire season and then every all 0:43:55.280 --> 0:43:59.080 of our rifle season, no flintlock hunting after Christmas, and 0:43:59.200 --> 0:44:01.640 you just did sad day hunts and you took the 0:44:01.760 --> 0:44:04.160 first day of rifle off, that was your only vacation day, 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:06.719 took you to you hunt nine days? I remember we 0:44:06.920 --> 0:44:12.600 talked about that. Yeah, So I mean it's yes, every possible, 0:44:12.840 --> 0:44:15.239 you know, besides, like I said, that season, but if 0:44:15.239 --> 0:44:18.160 you didn't take any other vacation off besides the opening day, 0:44:18.200 --> 0:44:20.759 we gave that because most people, most schools are off, 0:44:21.520 --> 0:44:24.400 and how many days with that same person game. Now 0:44:24.560 --> 0:44:28.640 being able to hunt Sundays, well probably double that easily. Yeah, 0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:34.160 you're a hunter many so that's a livable number. It's 0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:36.160 a big difference when you're you're not allowed to hunt 0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.680 Sunday and like who's going to deer Who wants to 0:44:38.719 --> 0:44:40.719 go to deer camp for a day? You know, like 0:44:40.880 --> 0:44:43.439 you can get a whole weekend and at least step 0:44:43.520 --> 0:44:46.399 can I can I give your grandpa's perspective on it? Yeah, 0:44:46.440 --> 0:44:48.520 I go for it. This is a great argument. We 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:53.719 love to have. Yea God bless him. Oh yeah, great guy. 0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:59.239 He hosted us. Yeah, listen, very gracious host put us up. 0:44:59.360 --> 0:45:05.320 Fat us who to this great company. His argument, his 0:45:06.560 --> 0:45:09.040 I'm not trying to do. His argument was he likes 0:45:09.080 --> 0:45:12.560 it that way because he told me on Saturday, you 0:45:12.640 --> 0:45:15.759 can get up to your hunting camp and quote, get 0:45:15.800 --> 0:45:19.200 all your clothes ready to everything, and then hunt on 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:23.840 Sunday and no one's out in the woods. That was no, no, no, 0:45:24.000 --> 0:45:27.800 how did it go? Oh? How did it go? I 0:45:27.840 --> 0:45:31.120 don't remember? He doesn't he doesn't like the Sunday hunting. 0:45:31.160 --> 0:45:33.960 I know. He I'm sorry. That's I'm trying to give 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:36.320 it was I screwed it? Up and and also the 0:45:36.440 --> 0:45:41.239 opener is now on Saturday rather than Monday. Oh, he 0:45:41.360 --> 0:45:44.000 liked to go up on Sunday, get all of his 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:48.560 clothes ready hunt Monday. And that's how they've always done it, 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:51.880 and by God, why would you change that. Now? Traditionally 0:45:52.280 --> 0:45:55.359 we would the Friday after Thanksgiving, we would go to camp. 0:45:56.280 --> 0:45:59.200 That's when everyone would meet there. Saturday we would do 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:05.760 whatever work on on camp, go grouse hunting or whatever. Sunday, 0:46:05.840 --> 0:46:09.800 we get up, go to church at camp. Yeah, we 0:46:09.880 --> 0:46:11.840 get up, go to church. The priest always had like 0:46:11.960 --> 0:46:14.320 a blessing for all the hunters going out on Monday. 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:18.399 We come back and start doing that. On Friday, we'd 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:21.319 come back to camp, have a big meal, and then 0:46:21.640 --> 0:46:24.359 you know, go to bed because you're getting up early 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:26.719 Monday morning to hit the woods. Dude, now I'm back 0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:29.800 to thinking that. I'm back to thinking that supports Sunday. 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:33.640 The band No, no, don't stop to that painted such 0:46:33.640 --> 0:46:37.960 a nice Bucolic image that you can make more traditions. 0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:40.600 It just screws everything up. But now you can hunt 0:46:40.600 --> 0:46:43.040 on Saturday, but now you can't hunt on Sunday, and 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:45.719 then it's back to hunting on Monday. It's a weird Yeah, man, 0:46:45.840 --> 0:46:49.319 Seth's just painted such a nice little man about brought 0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:53.000 to you thinking of that coming to a close cut, 0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:55.759 that conflicting. Yeah, you know what you might do, Phil, 0:46:56.560 --> 0:46:58.640 because South was going to do a call to action, 0:46:59.080 --> 0:47:01.799 but I think he does undid any progress he's gonna 0:47:01.840 --> 0:47:06.160 make by painting. Now, are way better traditions to be 0:47:06.280 --> 0:47:12.360 made in the future. If Sunday hunting, get up on Sunday, 0:47:12.400 --> 0:47:17.280 shoot a big old bucket. That's my kind of tradition. 0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:20.120 Give a call to action if you want to be 0:47:20.239 --> 0:47:22.719 in control of your own life and hunt when you 0:47:22.800 --> 0:47:26.040 want to hunt, and not when the government says or 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:31.160 no not because not like of course the commission sets 0:47:31.200 --> 0:47:33.640 the season. If you want to hunt when the Game 0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:39.040 Commission says, and not when the state legislature says. Do this. Yeah, 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:44.680 so there's there's a article on National Deer Association UM 0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:51.319 Deer Association dot com slash action alert support Sunday hunting 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:55.160 in Pennsylvania with a whole listen. Yeah, just just do 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:57.239 like a tell how to do a Google search. Just yeah, 0:47:58.239 --> 0:48:00.960 you could probably go to Deer Asociation dot com and 0:48:01.040 --> 0:48:03.759 in the search thing type in Pennsylvania Sunday hunting and 0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:05.880 it will come up there. You go, um, there's a 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.439 there's like a click here link. You can go there, 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:14.759 fill out some information and it it sends, um, it 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:18.560 sends this. You know, basically a thing saying that you 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.799 want this to pass? Now? Can residents of any state 0:48:22.000 --> 0:48:25.600 do this and participate? Or only residents of Pennsylvania. I 0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:27.760 did it, and I asked where you're from and stuff. 0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:32.080 I put Montana, and I'm gonna cue it up right now, 0:48:32.920 --> 0:48:38.640 let's all do it. Clay is redeemed after embarrassing like 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:43.800 almost I thought, embarrassing himself on this show. He found 0:48:44.560 --> 0:48:49.799 documentation of an l an eel and l of beargrease 0:48:51.520 --> 0:48:55.560 just to refresh people's memories. Clay was telling me all 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:58.160 about how there was a unit of measurement, which is 0:48:58.200 --> 0:49:01.640 the little it would be a sack if you took 0:49:01.680 --> 0:49:06.920 a doze skin a deer skin off, skinned to deer's 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.359 neck out. Now you've got a little tube of like right, 0:49:09.480 --> 0:49:13.520 you got a little tube of hide. Stitch one end closed, 0:49:14.000 --> 0:49:16.280 fill that with a liquid and then stitch it shut. 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:24.120 That little sack was a unit of measurement. I challenged 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:29.120 him on this, and rather than doubling down. He did 0:49:29.160 --> 0:49:32.560 a mild retreat. Would you agree, Phil you were there, Yeah, 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:35.200 that's a that's a perfect way of framiant. I'd say 0:49:35.760 --> 0:49:38.680 he didn't double down. No, he did a mild retreat. 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:40.279 He was still sticking to his guns a little bit. 0:49:40.440 --> 0:49:43.560 He was pretty sure. He kept He said, I've read 0:49:43.560 --> 0:49:46.239 an article about it. I quoted it. I must have 0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:49.080 read it some. But he wasn't like, Um, you calling 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:53.960 me a liar and want to fight. That's not really placed. 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:58.200 Plus use remote, you know, yeah, you talk a lot 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:03.879 of ship remote. So he found it. Uh, it's from 0:50:05.280 --> 0:50:09.640 he's got he's a picture of the image, a photo 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:13.960 of the book. It's all about Girl Stocker, Clay's buddy. 0:50:13.960 --> 0:50:17.560 Girl Stocker goes on and on. Guy ends up saying us. 0:50:17.680 --> 0:50:21.440 The black bear was a valuable commodity to early settlers 0:50:21.600 --> 0:50:26.200 of Arkansas. The price of bear skins at Arkansas Post 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:31.080 in eighteen o six ranged from one dollar to two 0:50:31.160 --> 0:50:37.120 dollars each, and that's sourced. Bear oil sold for one 0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:43.680 dollar per gallon in eighteen thirty four. In the early eighties, 0:50:44.440 --> 0:50:49.279 an el of bear grease, formed from the hide from 0:50:49.360 --> 0:50:53.560 the head and neck of a deer was a standard 0:50:53.920 --> 0:50:59.160 medium of exchange. A man's status as a provider was 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:02.279 judged by the number of elves of bear grease that 0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:06.680 stood by the fireplace. Bear meats sold for ten bucks 0:51:06.719 --> 0:51:13.600 per one pounds. That's good stuff of that. Glennwme coming through, 0:51:15.640 --> 0:51:20.560 coming through. Uh. This guy wrote in they have us 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:23.040 at his at his high school. He doesn't say what 0:51:23.120 --> 0:51:28.080 high school went to. They had a tradition where are 0:51:28.120 --> 0:51:32.320 you um did a prank. It was like a senior prank. 0:51:33.800 --> 0:51:36.760 And for some reason, I like, the idea involves skunk 0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:43.359 essence skunk oil. But so they wanted to sneak into 0:51:43.400 --> 0:51:46.600 their high school and and lace some stuff with skunk oill. 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:54.800 Totally understandable. But they chose hay bales. That's what puzzles me. 0:51:55.400 --> 0:51:57.960 Outside of the school. No, no, you gotta read that 0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:01.279 eighteen times and you realize that it's inside at the school. Oh, 0:52:03.200 --> 0:52:08.759 they soaked some hay bales. They put skunk oil on 0:52:09.080 --> 0:52:14.440 hay Bales and put him inside the school. The prank 0:52:14.520 --> 0:52:20.000 went awry, though, the next morning they discovered that school 0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:27.640 had been canceled. It was so bad the police came 0:52:27.719 --> 0:52:32.399 for him. The concentration of skunk oil was so high 0:52:32.480 --> 0:52:35.560 that it's so completely through the bales and into the carpet, 0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:38.759 causing thousands of dollars worth of damage, which he had 0:52:38.840 --> 0:52:40.279 to be him and his bodies had to pay for. 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.759 Think of that, and they were arrested. I had I 0:52:46.800 --> 0:52:51.200 had an anti establishment renegade buddy named Emmett Lombard in 0:52:51.280 --> 0:52:53.759 high school. Give his full name, Mammy. What if he's like, 0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:57.000 you know, on the up and up? Now? Oh he is. 0:52:58.120 --> 0:53:00.920 I think the Statute of limitations is out on this one. 0:53:01.000 --> 0:53:04.480 But he poured uh fox leure fox here and on. 0:53:05.000 --> 0:53:07.800 You know, our our school was an older building, so 0:53:07.920 --> 0:53:11.440 it had those old radiators, and he cleared out the 0:53:11.480 --> 0:53:15.600 school with that. People were throwing up the stuff. Really 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:18.920 was he fox trappers that way? Not at all. I 0:53:18.960 --> 0:53:20.840 don't even know where he got his hands on the stuff. 0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:22.320 But it was a good you know, he had a 0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:27.319 good plan. Uh this is here's anything. The little clarification 0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:30.280 We've talked about fifty freaking times about how Mark Twain 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:34.239 so the writer Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn Tom Sawyer. I 0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:39.680 really liked this clarification. Jumping frog Calveri's county. His birth 0:53:39.800 --> 0:53:45.440 name was Samuel Clemens. Of course, and he assumed the 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:48.279 pen name Mark Twain. And we have talked about what 0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:53.440 what Mark Twain meant um. On the riverboats in the 0:53:53.440 --> 0:53:56.839 Mississippi River, there's a feller whose job is a stand 0:53:56.920 --> 0:54:00.600 up front with a marked rope like knots tied in 0:54:00.640 --> 0:54:02.640 the rope or something or the anchor on the end, 0:54:03.280 --> 0:54:05.640 and you flick that rope out and then check out 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:10.120 deep the waters and the thing is marked in six 0:54:10.200 --> 0:54:16.680 ft increments fathoms, So one fathom increments Mark Twain means 0:54:16.760 --> 0:54:23.879 second mark two fathoms safe passage. So Twain had That's 0:54:23.880 --> 0:54:27.320 the understanding of why Twain took the name Mark Twain. 0:54:28.960 --> 0:54:32.560 But this guy gets into this book tells the book 0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:37.520 a biography about John McKay, a contemporary of Samuel Clemens 0:54:37.520 --> 0:54:41.200 whose past intersected with his at the Calm stock load 0:54:41.280 --> 0:54:44.839 and Virginia City, Nevadam. The guy says here in the book, 0:54:44.880 --> 0:54:48.879 the guy says this, well, sam clemens use of Mark 0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:51.719 Twain as a pen name did have roots in his 0:54:51.880 --> 0:54:55.720 time on the Mississippi. His intervening use of the phrase 0:54:55.880 --> 0:55:00.200 in Virginia City to order his whiskey is an even 0:55:00.280 --> 0:55:03.960 better story to share Over a few drinks he cools. 0:55:04.000 --> 0:55:07.080 In the book, Clemens claimed he'd appropriated his by then 0:55:07.200 --> 0:55:12.200 famous gnome to plume from a state Mississippi riverboat captain. However, 0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:17.080 according to more convincing Virginia City legend, Clemens acquired the 0:55:17.160 --> 0:55:20.719 nickname before appeared in print, derived from his habit of 0:55:20.840 --> 0:55:25.040 striding into the Old Corner saloon and calling out to 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:31.560 the bar keep to Mark Twain. What he meant was 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:38.040 he was ordered two whiskeys, and bartenders would keep track 0:55:38.120 --> 0:55:43.000 of what you drank on a chalkboard next year name 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:50.160 and Mark Twain to marks mark him down for two whiskeys. 0:55:51.000 --> 0:55:54.279 Think of that. I don't know that's cool. I don't know. 0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:58.759 Why do you like it? Johnnie? Um? I don't know, 0:55:58.840 --> 0:56:03.239 it's just next ovel. I like it because especially because 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:06.360 we were so sure about the other version of the story, 0:56:06.520 --> 0:56:09.000 you know, and then and I think it also, um 0:56:09.920 --> 0:56:13.920 it uh makes them just more of a human, you know, 0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:16.520 kind of takes him off of a pedestal. It's just 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.320 a dude that uh, you know, it's calling out for 0:56:19.680 --> 0:56:23.840 drinks of whiskey so often that they started developing. I 0:56:23.880 --> 0:56:25.919 wish Spencer new Heart is here right now, because i'd 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:29.520 tell him I could jole him into doing a little 0:56:29.640 --> 0:56:35.200 fact checker MythBuster on on all this um guy wrote 0:56:35.239 --> 0:56:41.960 an anti fishing sprinklers on docks are real. I was saying, 0:56:42.040 --> 0:56:44.160 so people are writing in about people putting sprinklers on 0:56:44.280 --> 0:56:48.200 docks to keep everybody away, keep fisherman away. And someone 0:56:48.400 --> 0:56:49.880 was like, no, no, no, no, it's not to keep 0:56:49.920 --> 0:56:52.080 fisherman away. It's keep ducks and geese from shotting on 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:55.200 your dock. They put a sprinkler out and then anytime 0:56:55.239 --> 0:56:57.759 something comes near it, the sprinkler shoots out water and 0:56:57.800 --> 0:56:59.640 it spooks off ducks and geese so they don't shat 0:56:59.719 --> 0:57:03.000 on their This guy's like, this guy wrote in and says, listen, 0:57:04.480 --> 0:57:08.640 not true. In Florida. There are many docks I fished 0:57:08.760 --> 0:57:13.040 that are definitely watered, not for ducks or geese. These 0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:18.000 sprinklers are intentionally aimed into the surrounding water too detour 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:20.680 boats from fishing too close to their dock. It is 0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:23.200 very common. And he goes on to say, my favorite 0:57:23.200 --> 0:57:26.640 thing here this is probably He says, there's a lady 0:57:26.680 --> 0:57:33.840 in the Tampa Bay area named Joyce who was damn 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:37.360 remember how like like a couple of months ago, and 0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:38.920 all of some became a thing like to be like 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:44.720 a Karen. Now you can be like a says. There's 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:47.960 a lady in the Tampa Bay area named Joyce who 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:50.640 was caught on camera given anglers a hard time for 0:57:50.760 --> 0:57:56.200 fishing her dock. So these guys made a Facebook event 0:57:56.920 --> 0:58:04.000 with a public invitation called fish Joyce Stock. I hope 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:07.680 everyone show everybody all the area fisherman can show up 0:58:07.680 --> 0:58:11.520 at all fish Joyce's dock at the same time. But 0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:15.000 what what kind of like what kind of angler is 0:58:15.040 --> 0:58:18.840 going to be scared off by a sprinkler? Yeah? Half 0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:24.640 tiger fish and you're wearing right, Come on listen, man. Yeah, 0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:28.080 they're a little annoying picture that I had a home. 0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:31.480 I see those sprinklers pictures. I have a hose on 0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:33.640 your for somehow, I have a hose on your boat 0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:37.640 and you're fishing away and all of a sudden, like periodically, 0:58:37.680 --> 0:58:41.760 I hose you down. You're telling me that your man, Okay, 0:58:41.880 --> 0:58:44.120 we'll do that. I gotta figure out how to do it. 0:58:44.160 --> 0:58:45.800 I gotta figure out how to get me a little pump. 0:58:46.280 --> 0:58:47.720 But if I now, if I was down there and 0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:50.120 I saw a sprinkler on a dock. I'd be like, 0:58:50.320 --> 0:58:54.320 that's a good spot. No one's fishing spot fish Joyce's doc. 0:58:55.800 --> 0:59:00.120 I love it. I just gotta cast, Okay, Yeah, like this, 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:03.200 I'm on fish ors dock on the Facebook. And look 0:59:03.240 --> 0:59:05.200 at that old boy trying to keep people off of 0:59:05.320 --> 0:59:09.560 his Uh this has already been going for is he outsprings. 0:59:09.720 --> 0:59:12.360 He's standing on his dock with a hose in one 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:14.800 hand and some kind of a stick pull on the 0:59:14.880 --> 0:59:19.959 other hand, banging his dock. He's trying to scare fish away. Yeah. Yeah, 0:59:20.760 --> 0:59:23.640 and then the guys that are angling are laughing so 0:59:23.840 --> 0:59:26.360 hard they can't even make a cast. Yeah, he's out 0:59:26.760 --> 0:59:30.720 banging a broomstick on his dock to spook fish out 0:59:30.760 --> 0:59:32.760 from under his dock. If you go on YouTube, there's 0:59:32.800 --> 0:59:36.800 like ten million videos of people like doing the same ship. 0:59:38.240 --> 0:59:41.120 I just I don't understand, Like, what, why, why, what's 0:59:41.160 --> 0:59:43.720 the problem? I don't know. He's that that old timer 0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:46.560 right there is an interesting situation. Look now he's just 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:51.360 started his engines on his boat that are next next 0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:54.040 to the dock and just has him sitting there, you know, 0:59:54.440 --> 0:59:57.240 above idle speed. It's probably not good for whatever. Where 0:59:57.280 --> 1:00:00.200 the boats sitting just reving. The just turning up ship 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:03.480 and marinas and docks aren't used to. He's making a 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:06.800 weird calculation. This dude is like he's saying himself, I 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:10.720 could be doing whatever it was I'd normally be doing, Okay, 1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:13.520 mowing my lawn, watching too, playing golf whatever. You you're 1:00:13.520 --> 1:00:17.880 the old guy in Florida. Okay, um, and do that 1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:21.600 knowing that someone might be fishing. It's just needling out 1:00:21.640 --> 1:00:24.600 of my awareness. Or I could be down on my 1:00:24.760 --> 1:00:30.400 dock banging on my dock with a broomstick. Hmm. And 1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:33.320 he's probably like, I don't want people fishing my dock 1:00:33.400 --> 1:00:35.320 because it's gonna damage it or something. And there he 1:00:35.440 --> 1:00:39.840 is smacking his dock with a broomstick. Holy cow, I 1:00:39.920 --> 1:00:41.760 want to go fishing, and I think people just like 1:00:42.000 --> 1:00:47.880 to be king of the mountain. Yeah, white tail deer. 1:00:48.280 --> 1:00:49.760 There's another thing I want to get any man, But 1:00:49.800 --> 1:00:54.000 it's like, very complicated. Let me give it to you 1:00:54.080 --> 1:00:57.440 real quick. It's so complicated. I was actually emailing with 1:00:57.760 --> 1:01:02.040 someone at National Shooting Sports Foundation today to get clarification. 1:01:02.080 --> 1:01:06.520 That's very complicated. So the Center for Biological Diversity and 1:01:06.640 --> 1:01:12.560 the Natural Resources Defense Counsel, which UH two organizations, which 1:01:12.680 --> 1:01:20.000 are they are not outspoken lee anti hunting. Yeah, they 1:01:20.120 --> 1:01:26.040 have a proven track record of well, every time there's 1:01:26.080 --> 1:01:28.280 an issue, they're always on the anti hunting side of it. 1:01:29.080 --> 1:01:35.600 Coincidentally or not. They're petitioning we should get someone from 1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:38.040 those organizations. I would let you know what that's what 1:01:38.120 --> 1:01:39.520 Kris needs to do. But Krin's not here right now. 1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:41.880 She needs to get someone from one of those organs 1:01:41.960 --> 1:01:43.440 to come and be like, no, no, no, no, we're 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:45.920 not in that hunting and and explain it. I'd love 1:01:45.960 --> 1:01:51.560 to hear it. Uh. They're petitioning the Department of the 1:01:51.640 --> 1:01:55.320 Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife Service to quote 1:01:57.320 --> 1:02:00.320 to band trade in wild mammals and birds, and for 1:02:00.480 --> 1:02:05.680 regulations instituting a comprehensive chain of custody system for all 1:02:05.960 --> 1:02:11.000 plants and wildlife imported into or exported from the United States. 1:02:15.280 --> 1:02:17.280 What they're saying is this, this is one of those 1:02:17.320 --> 1:02:18.680 weird This is one of those like this is a 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.880 weird COVID thing, like a COVID related thing that might 1:02:21.960 --> 1:02:24.840 not immediately seem like a COVID related thing. So you 1:02:24.920 --> 1:02:28.760 have two groups, Center for Biological Diversity and Natural Resources 1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:32.280 Defense Council. They're coming and saying you shouldn't be able 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:36.640 to bring wildlife parts into and out of the country 1:02:36.720 --> 1:02:42.120 without meeting certain criteria, and they're calling for and immediate 1:02:42.240 --> 1:02:45.880 ban while we sort out the system. So they're saying, like, 1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:52.120 stop now until we can put in place a satisfactory 1:02:52.160 --> 1:02:56.000 system to trace any movement of wildlife parts. So the 1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:59.560 stop now part would mean you don't come into the country, 1:03:01.600 --> 1:03:03.360 you go to like Clay Nukeomb right now is up 1:03:03.360 --> 1:03:08.200 in Manitoba hunting bears. Clay does not bring any part 1:03:08.280 --> 1:03:13.920 of that bear, no hide, no meat, nothing crosses that border. 1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:20.080 They don't point out in here that they're proposing that 1:03:20.120 --> 1:03:21.720 I'll get to the COVID part of this in a minute. 1:03:23.000 --> 1:03:27.280 They don't point out explicitly in here that they're proposing 1:03:27.520 --> 1:03:33.040 interstate bands as well. But some different legal experts have 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:37.680 looked at their use of the Lacy Act. The Lacy 1:03:37.760 --> 1:03:41.240 Act is used in the US. Would be that I'm 1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:44.840 trying to quickly explain Lacey Act. The Lacey Act gives 1:03:44.840 --> 1:03:47.600 a lot of teeth to wildlife regulations because let's say 1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:50.240 you had a state with very lax wildlife regulations and 1:03:50.320 --> 1:03:52.560 you broke a wildlife law in that state. So let's 1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:54.400 say you go into a state and you poach it here, 1:03:56.080 --> 1:04:00.960 and then you drive your poach deer from Ohio to Indiana, 1:04:02.360 --> 1:04:06.760 Ohio Illinois, you drive your poach here. Um, you have 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:10.440 just violated the Lacey Act. So now you've committed a 1:04:10.560 --> 1:04:14.920 federal crime and that allows it gives like an enhanced 1:04:15.000 --> 1:04:18.240 ability for people to go after interstate poachers. The Lacy 1:04:18.320 --> 1:04:21.880 Act does. And they're calling upon their justifying this band 1:04:22.200 --> 1:04:25.280 in terms of Lazy Act. And so some people are 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:28.600 pointing out that the way this is worded and the 1:04:28.760 --> 1:04:33.240 enforcement strategy would de facto mean that it would make 1:04:33.560 --> 1:04:39.760 interstate movement of wild animals wildlife parts would ban that 1:04:40.920 --> 1:04:42.880 most immediately A look, and you think it has any 1:04:42.960 --> 1:04:45.560 kind of it has repercussions for anyone that hunts Canada, 1:04:46.360 --> 1:04:49.360 hunts in Africa, being able to bring stuff back with 1:04:49.480 --> 1:04:52.720 you without going through whatever kind of thing that might 1:04:52.960 --> 1:04:57.760 presumably be onerous. Now what they're doing is they're saying, oh, 1:04:57.840 --> 1:05:02.840 hey man, we should do this because of COVID, which 1:05:02.880 --> 1:05:09.000 I feel is a little opportunistic. It's like, does they're 1:05:09.040 --> 1:05:15.040 sort of selling the idea based on that you're gonna reduce. 1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:17.680 They're saying that, hey, we all know, or we don't 1:05:17.720 --> 1:05:22.080 all know. We all thought a while ago that COVID 1:05:22.320 --> 1:05:24.520 absolutely came from bats. Now it's kind of like a 1:05:25.120 --> 1:05:28.240 toss up between the lab and bats, but absolutely came 1:05:28.280 --> 1:05:32.480 from bats. Um, we'll slow down or stop the movement 1:05:32.560 --> 1:05:36.760 of diseases by stopping the movement of wildlife parts. But 1:05:37.240 --> 1:05:41.480 it seems opportunistic to me. It's like they're going like, 1:05:41.600 --> 1:05:46.160 how can we leverage COVID into um, how can we 1:05:46.280 --> 1:05:49.760 leverage the pandemic and public awareness around the pandemic into 1:05:49.840 --> 1:05:53.440 getting a thing we want, which is that you can't 1:05:53.920 --> 1:05:57.120 move wildlife parts. Yeah? Well, I mean the same kind 1:05:57.160 --> 1:05:59.800 of people that are gonna latch onto moving wildlife parts, 1:06:00.080 --> 1:06:01.960 the same kind of people that are going to latch 1:06:02.080 --> 1:06:08.840 onto you know the COVID reasons, right, No overreach is 1:06:08.880 --> 1:06:11.800 too much over I mean it does it seem like 1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:19.160 the end goal is interstate trafficking and not international. I 1:06:19.240 --> 1:06:21.000 saw a clarification about that. I don't want to read 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:23.360 the whole email exchange, but I saw a clarification about 1:06:23.400 --> 1:06:27.120 that today and there was a a learned I received 1:06:27.160 --> 1:06:37.080 a learned reply about why that UM, why it's likely that, 1:06:37.320 --> 1:06:41.720 as pursued would have impact on interstate which would impact 1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:44.560 I mean, anyone who goes on and out of state 1:06:44.640 --> 1:06:52.240 hunt at that point watch this transition. Speaking of COVID, hey, 1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:54.080 I think we should just do a quick shout out though. 1:06:54.080 --> 1:06:56.920 If you want to keep before you go to your transition, 1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:58.640 think about it some more. But if you want to 1:06:58.760 --> 1:07:03.200 keep an eyeball on that, um you can probably keep 1:07:03.320 --> 1:07:08.040 up with that at ww dot n s s F 1:07:08.320 --> 1:07:11.680 dot org, which is the National Stream Sports Foundation, as 1:07:11.800 --> 1:07:18.400 well as um our buddies over at the Sportsman's Alliance. 1:07:18.440 --> 1:07:22.920 Thanks so again, This isn't like, this isn't a law 1:07:23.000 --> 1:07:26.840 that's been passed. This is a petition. It's a request, right, 1:07:27.520 --> 1:07:30.560 It's an official request on behalf of two organizations which 1:07:30.640 --> 1:07:32.840 we need to get people from one of those organizations 1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:35.880 or the other on to explain their mission. Maybe I 1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:37.480 got it all wrong. I don't know. I'd love to 1:07:37.560 --> 1:07:42.360 hear more. Speaking of COVID, ready for this transition. White 1:07:42.440 --> 1:07:45.560 tailed deer are showing up with COVID and staggering numbers. 1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:48.960 It seems not to mess with them, but they're getting it. 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:53.360 Thirty three of white tailed deer tested in Illinois. Michigan, 1:07:53.440 --> 1:07:57.960 New York, and and and Pennsylvania. Let me start over, 1:07:58.000 --> 1:08:02.040 because this is so kind of surprising. Thirty three of 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:07.520 deer tested in Illinois, Michigan, New York, and Pennsylvania were 1:08:07.560 --> 1:08:13.480 positive for antibodies, meaning they had been exposed at some point, 1:08:14.920 --> 1:08:23.639 but doesn't necessarily indicate they had active infections between January 1:08:24.640 --> 1:08:32.400 and March, so narrow window of time they tested Foe 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:40.960 deer Michigan, sixty seven of one thirteen samples. Sixtent of 1:08:41.040 --> 1:08:44.960 the tested deer had COVID antibodies. This has not been 1:08:45.040 --> 1:08:48.599 peer reviewed. Peer review means you do, like a little thing, 1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:53.880 you do a little research, um, and you sent it 1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:56.479 out to a scientist in your field, and they kind 1:08:56.520 --> 1:08:59.559 of go through and check your work and they'll they'll 1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:01.360 poke holes in it, right, And a lot of things 1:09:01.400 --> 1:09:03.320 don't make it through a peer like someone might look 1:09:03.360 --> 1:09:04.800 and be like, oh, yeah, but had you thought of this? 1:09:06.000 --> 1:09:08.160 I mean, and they're like, oh, ship, we didn't think 1:09:08.160 --> 1:09:09.760 of that. And then it doesn't. It doesn't, the idea 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:12.720 doesn't advance. This has not been peer reviewed. Even though 1:09:12.760 --> 1:09:17.840 it hasn't, it seems completely plausible, right, Like not to me, 1:09:18.640 --> 1:09:21.080 it doesn't, I'd have to be. I'd have to know 1:09:21.240 --> 1:09:24.080 so much more about like when you test, are their 1:09:24.120 --> 1:09:27.519 false flags? Like I don't know enough about it? What 1:09:27.640 --> 1:09:30.519 a common what a dear's version of a common cold? 1:09:31.640 --> 1:09:35.400 Trigger the I don't know. But wasn't there instances like 1:09:35.520 --> 1:09:40.479 where minx wild minks were infected with and and all 1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:43.360 kinds of zoos have had animals. That's a good point 1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:45.960 by you know a lot of zoo critters. You're about 1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:47.760 that lady that got banished from that zoo for having 1:09:47.760 --> 1:09:51.760 an affair with that chimpanzee. I wish I could make 1:09:51.800 --> 1:09:57.840 that whistle noise. I gotta transitions that they didn't have 1:09:57.960 --> 1:10:04.320 COVID speaking of being a wreck um. They did say 1:10:04.400 --> 1:10:06.479 I read something a little bit. There was more than 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:08.360 what we have here in our notes. It did say 1:10:08.439 --> 1:10:11.680 that this this, these blood tests have been going on 1:10:11.880 --> 1:10:13.800 for like a decade, and so they were able to 1:10:13.920 --> 1:10:19.320 look because saying, oh, well, maybe they've always carried these 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:21.920 stars viruses and there's you know, we all know that 1:10:22.000 --> 1:10:27.000 there's like different versions of COVID all the time. Right, Well, 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:30.519 they looked back like ten years in history and they're like, no, 1:10:31.040 --> 1:10:33.479 it didn't there was there. Those markers were not there 1:10:33.520 --> 1:10:36.720 back then. See, YO knows a lot more about you 1:10:36.760 --> 1:10:39.519 should lead the discussion. That's all I know about this. 1:10:40.760 --> 1:10:43.920 Well that's a pretty important damn point. Interesting though, Yeah, 1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:47.320 that's the question I was gonna askar up. So obviously 1:10:47.520 --> 1:10:52.880 questions arise our white tails spreading the virus among themselves 1:10:53.240 --> 1:10:58.439 and or getting it from close contact with humans. How 1:10:58.520 --> 1:11:02.559 might this effect spread between and among animals and humans? 1:11:03.920 --> 1:11:06.679 Are do you're not showing symptoms by acting as hosts 1:11:06.720 --> 1:11:10.400 for novel mutations to it then pass back to humans. 1:11:13.680 --> 1:11:16.680 Sure it'd be cool if we get a sound of 1:11:16.760 --> 1:11:19.400 someone doing one of those astonished whistles and then just 1:11:19.640 --> 1:11:22.120 insert it. I can't really now picture what it's actually 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:27.640 supposed to sound like. I'm sure Phil confined like an 1:11:27.680 --> 1:11:30.160 astonished whistle. Yeah, we can do that. Do you want 1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:31.880 me to get a live soundboard in here? I have 1:11:32.000 --> 1:11:33.599 that Yanni one when I first like this just two 1:11:33.680 --> 1:11:37.880 years ago. Alright, wasn't here, Yeah, yeah, Yanni wasn't here, 1:11:37.880 --> 1:11:39.880 And Phil took a bunch of Yanni saying a bunch 1:11:39.880 --> 1:11:41.360 of different things, and you can just hit whatever you 1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:44.880 wanted ya just say, like, like is that right? Just 1:11:45.000 --> 1:11:46.640 have to say whatever you wanted to. And then we 1:11:46.680 --> 1:11:49.160 could also make them look dumb because we could. We 1:11:49.240 --> 1:11:51.320 could play it saying something real obvious, but then have 1:11:51.800 --> 1:11:58.040 Yanni be like, I don't understand people like that. Yanni, man, 1:11:58.040 --> 1:12:03.599 he doesn't get anything. Um, here's the interesting story out 1:12:03.640 --> 1:12:07.080 of Florida. This is another one. It's hard to explain, 1:12:08.640 --> 1:12:13.840 so there had long been. Let me try to think 1:12:13.880 --> 1:12:16.320 of a different way to tiptoe into this one. Depending 1:12:16.320 --> 1:12:18.240 where you live here in the good old United States, 1:12:18.320 --> 1:12:21.120 and and for you listeners elsewhere, you'll have your own 1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:23.519 version of this. Your state may or may not have 1:12:23.720 --> 1:12:29.839 a law about how far away from a occupied dwelling 1:12:30.760 --> 1:12:36.839 from a building you can discharge your gun. Meaning in Michigan, 1:12:36.880 --> 1:12:38.600 for instance, let's say you had a Let's say a 1:12:38.640 --> 1:12:41.120 guy had a house and he built this house like 1:12:41.479 --> 1:12:44.360 right dead nuts on the edge of the National forest. 1:12:46.360 --> 1:12:50.040 You gotta be what is it something like that in Michigan, 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:52.720 I can't remember. You can't go stand like, let's say, 1:12:52.760 --> 1:12:54.800 his house. Theoretically it is like around the line. You 1:12:54.920 --> 1:12:59.080 can't go stand like outside his bedroom window and be like, 1:12:59.120 --> 1:13:04.080 hey bro, I'm on nash of forest man, bam bouch 1:13:04.400 --> 1:13:07.640 start shooting because you got even if you're even if 1:13:07.680 --> 1:13:09.000 you're okay to be on the ground, you still have 1:13:09.040 --> 1:13:13.280 to keep distance from that safety the state I'm sitting 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:17.519 in now, as well as you're sitting here now. They 1:13:17.560 --> 1:13:19.760 don't have it. We used to flow a river for 1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:26.080 ducks and it felt so weird. I called fishing game. 1:13:26.360 --> 1:13:28.920 Just say, like, man, there's something that just doesn't seem right, 1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:31.880 even though we've been doing it. And he said, we 1:13:31.920 --> 1:13:33.800 don't have a law like that. I said, so, what 1:13:33.880 --> 1:13:35.640 would happen? He goes, what would happen is you hit 1:13:35.680 --> 1:13:39.080 the guy's house and as a negligent discharge or something. 1:13:39.160 --> 1:13:43.160 But the simple fact of you firing that in and 1:13:43.240 --> 1:13:46.519 of itself, out of you endangering someone, like, just the 1:13:46.640 --> 1:13:50.360 simple fact of you firing in close proximity. We don't 1:13:50.400 --> 1:13:53.120 have a rule about that. I would I would have 1:13:53.160 --> 1:13:57.280 assumed there was. I just assumed there was. But that's 1:13:57.280 --> 1:14:00.680 why I called it felt naughty. Yeah, I got a 1:14:00.760 --> 1:14:02.680 deer spot like that. I saw a new game war 1:14:02.720 --> 1:14:04.599 and recently I was talking about something that felt naughty 1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:09.800 but wasn't. And he was saying, like he basically said, well, 1:14:09.840 --> 1:14:13.680 why don't you listen to yourself? Why does that not 1:14:13.800 --> 1:14:16.160 feel to you. I'm like, just feels like it should 1:14:16.160 --> 1:14:18.800 I shouldn't be able to do that because you should 1:14:18.840 --> 1:14:26.880 listen to those instincts. So Florida, there's been some tension 1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:30.360 between water like there's some tension and some waterfowl hunters 1:14:30.400 --> 1:14:34.519 have even wanted to clarify because there's like a debate 1:14:34.600 --> 1:14:37.280 and people get an arguments about where you're hunting. So 1:14:38.200 --> 1:14:40.439 some hunters wanted to you know, some people in the 1:14:40.520 --> 1:14:42.639 non hunting community and some people in the hunting community 1:14:42.680 --> 1:14:47.720 have sought to clarify what is the restricted area and 1:14:47.800 --> 1:14:52.640 they're creating this restricted hunting area, and it there's a 1:14:52.760 --> 1:14:55.120 movement to create this rule. The rule provides a clear 1:14:55.200 --> 1:14:59.519 path for a municipality to establish on their choice to 1:14:59.640 --> 1:15:02.240 a stay, ablish a restricted hunting area with certain housing 1:15:02.360 --> 1:15:09.759 density requirements and capability by municipal law enforcement to enforce 1:15:09.920 --> 1:15:15.519 distant rules outlined in a restricted hunting area. So they 1:15:15.600 --> 1:15:18.960 have three ft from an occupied dwelling. You cannot hunt 1:15:19.000 --> 1:15:25.000 within three feet of an occupied dwelling. This guy wrote 1:15:25.040 --> 1:15:32.559 in what he's worried about is rampant development in Florida. 1:15:33.439 --> 1:15:35.840 So right now it might seem like a good idea, Okay, 1:15:36.120 --> 1:15:38.080 I see all the houses. I know where the houses are. 1:15:38.800 --> 1:15:40.680 We can't shoot within three hundred feet. But as he's 1:15:40.720 --> 1:15:44.559 looking along the lake shore with all the development building 1:15:44.600 --> 1:15:48.639 going on, you look ten twenty years into the future, 1:15:50.080 --> 1:15:52.519 and he's saying, I see an area where even with 1:15:52.600 --> 1:15:55.080 a duck hunter support. If a duck hunter supported this 1:15:55.240 --> 1:15:58.080 rule in order to have it, they clearly defined so 1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:02.120 everybody knows where they're standing legally, He's worried about as 1:16:02.200 --> 1:16:06.439 our you know, urban rural interfaces. Um, are they going 1:16:06.520 --> 1:16:09.080 to negotiate themselves right out of all their hunting spots, 1:16:09.720 --> 1:16:13.760 because every time a house gets built, you've created a 1:16:15.200 --> 1:16:21.120 circle with a one hundred yard radius that can't be hunted. 1:16:25.320 --> 1:16:29.559 I think about that. It's a refuge a thousand people 1:16:29.680 --> 1:16:35.160 per day moving to Florida. Cheez, And he points out 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:37.920 ducks are found along the shoreline. You go to a 1:16:38.000 --> 1:16:39.479 lake where the ducks hang out, I mean, you know, 1:16:39.600 --> 1:16:41.360 sometimes not, but I mean typically, yeah, you go to 1:16:41.439 --> 1:16:46.639 a lake throughound the shoreline. They also have this thing 1:16:46.720 --> 1:16:55.720 where it matters who owns the house. So the law 1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:58.960 provides private property rights on public land to those who 1:16:59.080 --> 1:17:02.040 live inside and r h A. If you live inside 1:17:02.080 --> 1:17:05.000 in r h a, you can duck hunt inside the 1:17:05.120 --> 1:17:08.360 three hundred foot boundary or give others permission to do 1:17:08.560 --> 1:17:14.160 so within three hundred feet of your dwelling, so you 1:17:14.320 --> 1:17:23.200 can hunt it. It effectively privatizes the lake shore. That's interesting. 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:25.720 Can you hunt it if your house is less than 1:17:25.760 --> 1:17:30.120 three feet from the next Oh that's a good that's 1:17:30.120 --> 1:17:32.439 a good point. Yeah, because where did those spaces? That 1:17:32.520 --> 1:17:34.800 comes back to the density thing, Like if you live 1:17:34.840 --> 1:17:37.040 on a lake without a lot of houses and suddenly, 1:17:39.560 --> 1:17:41.280 but it's interest man, a couple of dudes go by 1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:43.920 a place, a couple of places, a couple of shacks. 1:17:44.920 --> 1:17:48.760 Also you're like, nah, huh, it's our spot now, bro. Yeah. 1:17:48.800 --> 1:17:51.280 And what if a dude builds a little floating house 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:53.479 out in front of your place where you're going to hunt, 1:17:53.520 --> 1:17:55.519 and he's like, oh, bro, you can't hunt within a 1:17:55.640 --> 1:17:59.240 hundred yards in my little floating house. Here the list 1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:04.040 of the road in letcher Um. Him and his fellow 1:18:04.120 --> 1:18:07.280 anti rual colleagues are trying to work with the FWS 1:18:07.479 --> 1:18:11.360 what's that stand for Fish and Wildish Wildlife Service Commission 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:14.760 Florida to go to negotiate a rule to be a 1:18:14.760 --> 1:18:18.400 little more palatable. He thinks it's an egregious oversight by 1:18:18.439 --> 1:18:21.280 the Commission some of the stuff they're not looking at 1:18:23.000 --> 1:18:26.280 Steve today here, you're correctly. They're like, the municipality can 1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:28.080 just make up there like that? Can they have authority 1:18:28.120 --> 1:18:31.080 over that? The municipality can declare a restricted hunting area. 1:18:31.680 --> 1:18:34.240 So I think that would get super messy with depending 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:36.680 if you have a hunter friendly municipality or not, or 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:40.240 just duck hunters going. That's ridiculous. A bunch of New 1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:48.320 Jersey is there something as a Florida cat lady, A 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:51.360 bunch of Joyce is all the Joyces get together and 1:18:51.360 --> 1:18:53.040 they're like, I got an idea, Let's make us an 1:18:53.240 --> 1:19:03.679 r H A community. Yeah, that's a good one, man flatcher, 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:06.960 good for keeping out. Good on you for keeping an 1:19:07.000 --> 1:19:19.840 eye out. Very good one. All right, I already moved 1:19:19.840 --> 1:19:21.600 on to like this, we're gonna move on to a 1:19:21.640 --> 1:19:29.599 subject that's just to just just really troubles me, keeps 1:19:29.640 --> 1:19:33.679 me up at night. And that is just how much 1:19:33.880 --> 1:19:38.120 of our landscape we are burning every year in big 1:19:38.960 --> 1:19:47.400 hot fires, not the nice ones, the hot soil burners, 1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:53.080 and holy cow, man like fire is in the fire. 1:19:53.200 --> 1:19:57.760 Like was the news. It got bumped by Cobble, it 1:19:57.880 --> 1:20:01.640 got bumped by the hurrican Kane. But other than that, 1:20:01.800 --> 1:20:07.680 man fire has had has maintained a real position in 1:20:07.760 --> 1:20:12.800 the news over multiple years of like news cycles. You 1:20:12.920 --> 1:20:18.400 get the feeling something weird is going on, something news 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:22.640 going on. Then you uh try to make it be 1:20:22.800 --> 1:20:25.200 that it's not because that's scary. So then you'll sit 1:20:25.200 --> 1:20:27.320 around and thinking, oh, yeah, but what about the Pestigo 1:20:27.479 --> 1:20:32.479 fire of eight seventy one that killed people? Um, maybe 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:34.760 it's not so bad. I don't know. We're gonna we're 1:20:34.760 --> 1:20:36.400 gonna get into that, and we're gonna get into it 1:20:36.479 --> 1:20:41.080 with our guest, Paul Hesberg. So, Paul Hesberg is a 1:20:41.280 --> 1:20:46.000 research landscape ecologist with the U. S d A's Forest Service. 1:20:46.040 --> 1:20:49.680 He'll tell us what that means, but he's affiliated as 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:53.960 a research professor with a handful of universities, including University 1:20:54.000 --> 1:21:00.120 of Washington, Oregon State University, University of British columb You 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:02.599 all right, so we're just gonna ask him direct, Paul, 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:06.560 can you lay out for folks what it means to 1:21:06.640 --> 1:21:09.400 be a rate sorry, what it means to be a 1:21:09.479 --> 1:21:15.360 research landscape ecologist and how does that bring you into 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:19.840 the fire world. That's a great question. Thanks for having 1:21:19.840 --> 1:21:23.600 me on the show, Steve Um. So, a landscape ecologist 1:21:23.720 --> 1:21:28.840 studies how patterns of different conditions drive processes. So a 1:21:28.920 --> 1:21:32.320 wildfire would be a process, an insect outbreak would be 1:21:32.360 --> 1:21:36.720 a process. And so over the last several decades, I've 1:21:36.800 --> 1:21:41.439 been looking at and reconstructing historical landscapes throughout the West 1:21:41.520 --> 1:21:44.479 and asking the question what species of trees were growing, 1:21:44.560 --> 1:21:48.640 how dense were they, what were the sort of patchworks 1:21:48.760 --> 1:21:50.960 or mosaics, what do they look like? And then how 1:21:51.000 --> 1:21:54.400 did fire behave as a consequence of those conditions. And 1:21:54.479 --> 1:21:57.600 then I reconstructed current landscapes for the same places, and 1:21:57.680 --> 1:22:00.439 I compared them, and what I found out was that 1:22:00.640 --> 1:22:04.519 forests of the present day don't look or function anything 1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:07.800 like forests of even a hundred years ago. We're on 1:22:07.920 --> 1:22:12.519 a landscape that doesn't resemble what European colonists found when 1:22:12.560 --> 1:22:16.639 they got here to the west. Let's uh, let's start 1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:19.759 with with the kind of question I laid out earlier, 1:22:20.240 --> 1:22:24.920 Um that forest fires seemed that just you know, I 1:22:24.960 --> 1:22:27.720 don't like logs. Sort of the number of mentions of 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:32.240 forest fires that occur in the news in conversations over 1:22:32.280 --> 1:22:34.880 the course of my life. But like, man, it really 1:22:35.000 --> 1:22:42.960 feels like they have just dominated public thinking, particularly in 1:22:43.040 --> 1:22:46.080 the West, in a way that they did not once 1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:49.880 upon a time. Yet, Um, you know, you imagine these 1:22:50.160 --> 1:22:53.040 There's that book called was Rick was the Big Burn? 1:22:53.120 --> 1:22:56.839 The Big Burn? About the ten like the catastrophic fires 1:22:56.960 --> 1:23:02.240 of earlier. I mentioned the largest forest fire I believe 1:23:02.320 --> 1:23:06.680 still today the largest forest fire in US history seventy one, 1:23:06.760 --> 1:23:11.800 the Pestigo Fire, which was burned across Wisconsin Michigan's Upper Peninsula, 1:23:12.320 --> 1:23:15.160 killed over a thousand people. So you look at these 1:23:15.400 --> 1:23:21.240 these monster fires historically and then you try to soothe 1:23:21.280 --> 1:23:24.600 yourself into thinking like, well, it can't be It's not 1:23:24.840 --> 1:23:29.800 that bad. So maybe nothing new is happening. Um, what's 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:31.920 your take on that. Are we in a new era 1:23:32.120 --> 1:23:36.360 of forest fires or is it business as usual? We 1:23:36.520 --> 1:23:39.680 just hear about them more. We're in a new era, 1:23:39.800 --> 1:23:46.200 Steve Um. The Pestigo fire killed about people, and the 1:23:46.320 --> 1:23:50.640 firefighting infrastructure wasn't around. There wasn't really well developed, and 1:23:50.720 --> 1:23:54.960 so it caught them all by surprise. Wendy fire season, Uh, 1:23:55.120 --> 1:23:57.360 an awful lot of logging had gone through in the 1:23:57.439 --> 1:24:00.240 Lake States. There's a lot of slash hanging out. So 1:24:00.920 --> 1:24:04.160 the fire grew over three million acres as a consequence 1:24:04.240 --> 1:24:08.439 of lack of a big fire suppression infrastructure, caught by 1:24:08.640 --> 1:24:11.240 a real significant wind and weather event, a lot of 1:24:11.280 --> 1:24:16.200 fuel hanging around, and it was incredibly frightening and damaging. 1:24:16.320 --> 1:24:20.599 But it didn't get the US thinking about doing fire 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:25.400 suppression wholesale and really scaling up to develop just an 1:24:25.439 --> 1:24:29.160 amazing resource to attack fire. Um. And if you read 1:24:29.240 --> 1:24:31.040 the history, there's a lot of other really big fires 1:24:31.080 --> 1:24:34.320 over a million acres that occurred long before the era 1:24:34.479 --> 1:24:38.200 of fire suppression. We're in a new era and now 1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:41.479 because the climate is getting warmer, it's getting hotter, drier, 1:24:41.760 --> 1:24:44.439 and there's a lot more windy days when it's hot 1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:48.920 and dry. What are the It's interesting that you brought 1:24:49.000 --> 1:24:51.080 up and I've always called the Pestigo fire, but you 1:24:51.120 --> 1:24:55.120 just said Pestigo, So, uh, thanks for the correction, Ara. 1:24:55.280 --> 1:24:57.600 But if if it's interesting to bring up that that 1:24:59.680 --> 1:25:03.240 might of um, that that fire, other later fires might 1:25:03.280 --> 1:25:07.760 have brought on the era of fire suppression. But can 1:25:07.800 --> 1:25:14.280 you lay out what factors are at play right now? Um? 1:25:14.479 --> 1:25:17.840 Because you hear multiple culprits, right, You hear that we 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:21.799 have a history of fire suppression and then UM, forest 1:25:21.880 --> 1:25:27.519 management rights and wrongs, a changing climate. Um, is there 1:25:27.600 --> 1:25:29.559 a long list or is it a pretty simple list. 1:25:30.479 --> 1:25:33.360 It's a pretty simple list, really. Um. It's taken a 1:25:33.400 --> 1:25:35.040 lot of work on a lot of people's part to 1:25:35.479 --> 1:25:37.920 get to the place we are right now. But we 1:25:38.080 --> 1:25:41.000 know in the West, for example, that the Little Ice 1:25:41.120 --> 1:25:44.960 Age only ended a short time ago, so it was 1:25:45.080 --> 1:25:48.800 really mild and sort of equitable in the West, and 1:25:49.200 --> 1:25:54.240 that that made the the climate not too hot, not 1:25:54.400 --> 1:25:56.960 too dry, not too wet. It was sort of in 1:25:57.080 --> 1:26:00.200 the Goldilocks spot for a fairly long period of time, 1:26:00.320 --> 1:26:02.560 and so there was a lot of forest growth that 1:26:02.680 --> 1:26:05.760 occurred during that period of time. Um. And what we 1:26:05.800 --> 1:26:10.400 see from the climate data is after about we see 1:26:10.439 --> 1:26:14.320 a really different signature on the climate of western North America. 1:26:14.439 --> 1:26:17.200 And it's all the way across the Western States on 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:21.559 into British Columbia and Alberta. It's a really big scale thing. 1:26:21.720 --> 1:26:26.560 In fact, in British Columbia and in the Arctic and Subarctic, 1:26:26.720 --> 1:26:29.640 temperatures are rising at a much faster rate than they 1:26:29.680 --> 1:26:32.759 are here in Washington State where I live, for example, 1:26:33.320 --> 1:26:36.240 two to three times the rate of warming and uh, 1:26:36.360 --> 1:26:39.200 and so those systems are just changing abruptly right now, 1:26:39.640 --> 1:26:43.439 and so they're burning too. We're saying really extensive fires. 1:26:43.880 --> 1:26:48.439 And the climate unequivocally is driving this rising area burned. Um. 1:26:48.880 --> 1:26:53.840 Everywhere we look, climate drives increasing area burned. It was 1:26:53.920 --> 1:26:56.679 that way thousands of years ago. It is this way 1:26:56.800 --> 1:27:02.400 going forward. Can you lay out the fire situation for people? Like, 1:27:02.600 --> 1:27:06.240 I just know you know where we are. It's smokey, 1:27:06.880 --> 1:27:12.240 it's been smoky for eight weeks. Um, we hear a 1:27:12.280 --> 1:27:13.960 lot about it, But like, can you give sort of 1:27:14.040 --> 1:27:19.320 like a more holistic snapshot of of what's happening at 1:27:19.360 --> 1:27:22.439 the moment? Sure, happy to do it, So think of 1:27:22.560 --> 1:27:26.520 I think that we're sort of I'm giving you a snapshot. 1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:29.439 And the numbers aren't done yet, right because an awful 1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:31.680 lot of places have a much longer fire season. So 1:27:33.120 --> 1:27:36.880 the snapshot is basically, we've got something like forty three 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:41.799 thousand and counting fire starts in the continental US, about 1:27:43.000 --> 1:27:46.600 plus or minus five million acres have already burned, and 1:27:46.720 --> 1:27:49.680 we expect that number to continue rise on into the 1:27:49.800 --> 1:27:53.000 fall and even early winter in some of the southern states, 1:27:53.479 --> 1:27:57.160 and globally, it appears that is one of the worst 1:27:57.200 --> 1:28:00.960 fire years on record. So places that normally get fired 1:28:01.040 --> 1:28:06.320 like Australia and Africa and the Mediterranean countries that that 1:28:06.400 --> 1:28:11.200 are have that Mediterranean climate. Basically we're seeing those countries 1:28:11.280 --> 1:28:15.080 really being hit hard as well. And what has been 1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:18.640 predicted for the last probably thirty five forty years is 1:28:18.640 --> 1:28:22.000 actually occurring. The climates warning warming in the burned area 1:28:22.120 --> 1:28:24.120 is on the rise, and what we can see from 1:28:24.200 --> 1:28:27.599 here is that the area burned since two thousand until 1:28:27.800 --> 1:28:31.560 about today is going to double triple some estimates or 1:28:31.600 --> 1:28:36.719 even quadruple by so so it's not a new normal. 1:28:36.840 --> 1:28:40.599 It's actually not settled down. The best years are behind us. 1:28:40.880 --> 1:28:43.679 That's what the research is telling us. We were talking 1:28:43.680 --> 1:28:46.200 a little bit before we uh had you on here 1:28:47.120 --> 1:28:49.680 ask the question you were asking Johnny about, at what 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.640 point is it do you run out? Yeah, it just 1:28:53.720 --> 1:28:56.720 seems like, you know, back in the day, we know 1:28:56.880 --> 1:28:59.320 that there used to be like a recurring mosaic kind 1:28:59.320 --> 1:29:01.559 of a fire pattern, right, and that seemed to keep 1:29:01.720 --> 1:29:04.040 the big fires from happening. And as much as it's 1:29:04.080 --> 1:29:07.040 been burning over the last ten years or however long 1:29:07.120 --> 1:29:10.680 it's been since nineteen, it would seem as though at 1:29:10.760 --> 1:29:14.000 some point the fires would have to start coming back 1:29:14.200 --> 1:29:18.200 on top of the you know what they've already burned, 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.160 and thus it would start to limit like how big 1:29:21.240 --> 1:29:24.000 they could get. So it's like a two part question, 1:29:24.080 --> 1:29:26.920 like is that happening? And then in general, can you 1:29:27.040 --> 1:29:29.840 say what, like what percentage of I don't know if 1:29:29.880 --> 1:29:31.519 you want to do it nationally or just pick a 1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:35.719 state of like stuff that ken Burn has already burned 1:29:35.720 --> 1:29:39.720 in the last two decades, so tens of millions of 1:29:39.760 --> 1:29:42.920 acres have burned throughout the West, and we're seeing burned 1:29:43.080 --> 1:29:46.720 area rising in the Lake States and in the Northeast. 1:29:47.439 --> 1:29:50.280 There's a ton of prescribe burning in the South and 1:29:50.520 --> 1:29:54.040 the South coastal Plain and that's having an incredibly positive 1:29:54.080 --> 1:30:02.560 effect on low burned area in places like the Carolinas, Georgia, Laurida, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana. 1:30:02.680 --> 1:30:05.080 That those southern pine forests, they do a lot of 1:30:05.120 --> 1:30:07.840 prescribe burning, and so they have a different story right 1:30:07.880 --> 1:30:10.840 now that's going on in the West. We we don't 1:30:10.880 --> 1:30:13.840 have license to burn that many acres. Georgia, I think 1:30:13.880 --> 1:30:16.439 in the last two or three years had one year 1:30:16.520 --> 1:30:18.920 with a prescribed burned a million acres, which is a 1:30:19.000 --> 1:30:21.799 really big deal. And what that does is it changes 1:30:21.880 --> 1:30:24.599 the dynamics. If you burn it under the right fuel 1:30:24.640 --> 1:30:27.160 and weather conditions, you get good fire behavior and you 1:30:27.280 --> 1:30:31.080 get good fire effects. We're not up to those kinds 1:30:31.120 --> 1:30:33.640 of acres and we need to be burning that a 1:30:33.720 --> 1:30:36.160 really central part of your question. Then it's a super 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:40.160 clever question. You think you think severe fires are driven 1:30:40.280 --> 1:30:43.240 by woody fuels, and once you start burning up a 1:30:43.280 --> 1:30:45.400 lot of the woody fuels, you would expect that, hey, 1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:47.519 it's going to tip back to a sort of a 1:30:47.600 --> 1:30:51.200 more benign system. Right, we're finding out it's different than 1:30:51.280 --> 1:30:54.680 that under climate change. Let's say an area burns and 1:30:54.760 --> 1:30:56.920 you get, you know, half a million acre fire. Let's 1:30:56.920 --> 1:30:59.479 say the Bootleg fire, right, You've been reading about that 1:30:59.600 --> 1:31:02.759 in Oregon, and there's a lot of severe fire behavior 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:07.439 in that area. What we're seeing is those areas then 1:31:07.640 --> 1:31:11.439 get a lot of meadows and shrublands developing in and 1:31:11.560 --> 1:31:13.879 that's the first thing that comes back after the removal 1:31:13.960 --> 1:31:16.960 of forest, right by a severe fire. What happens is 1:31:17.080 --> 1:31:20.840 you'll get recurring ignitions on the margins of some of 1:31:20.920 --> 1:31:24.800 those and it will reburn again. And when it reburns. 1:31:25.160 --> 1:31:28.240 If you had surviving forest, or you had seedlings and 1:31:28.320 --> 1:31:32.040 saplings that started to seed in and regenerate a new forest, 1:31:32.160 --> 1:31:35.400 they get burnt out, and so you start converting big 1:31:35.479 --> 1:31:40.200 areas of forest um into areas where it's very difficult 1:31:40.320 --> 1:31:44.240 for forest to walk back again. And the question you 1:31:44.280 --> 1:31:46.639 asked before about that, Patrick, you know, I think about 1:31:46.680 --> 1:31:49.280 all the elk stands I've ever sat in before where 1:31:49.720 --> 1:31:52.280 I look across and I see a really cool meadow, 1:31:52.680 --> 1:31:55.280 and I'll see areas where the elker bedding first thing 1:31:55.360 --> 1:31:57.880 in the morning, and I'll look across the drainage and 1:31:57.960 --> 1:32:00.280 it's open and I can see for two mile. Also 1:32:00.360 --> 1:32:03.160 heard about coming in in the late season while the 1:32:03.240 --> 1:32:06.720 largest dropped its foliage, and you see this mosaic, this 1:32:06.840 --> 1:32:09.680 patchwork of conditions that provide sort of everything in a 1:32:09.720 --> 1:32:13.560 fairly small neighborhood. Well that's not what's repeating under the 1:32:13.640 --> 1:32:17.040 current fire regimes. We're getting a really different patchwork. It's 1:32:17.160 --> 1:32:20.880 really coarse. The burned areas are large because we're putting 1:32:20.920 --> 1:32:23.920 out all the small and medium sized fires. Because they 1:32:24.000 --> 1:32:27.040 occur under more moderate fire weather, they're easier to hook, 1:32:27.080 --> 1:32:29.880 they're easier to hold right and so the things that 1:32:29.960 --> 1:32:33.679 are burning the landscape are the fires that escape under 1:32:34.120 --> 1:32:38.160 really difficult, hot, dry, windy conditions, and they escape initial attack, 1:32:39.160 --> 1:32:42.240 They escape all valid attempts to try to keep it 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:45.320 in a small paddock, you know, to keep the fire 1:32:45.400 --> 1:32:49.840 small and and resources. Firefighters have to fall back because 1:32:49.920 --> 1:32:53.680 otherwise it's dangerous, they'll be high loss of life. Can 1:32:53.720 --> 1:32:57.920 you can you explain, um, this is an our debate 1:32:57.960 --> 1:33:01.800 we're having or not debate. We're just the acusting this. Uh, 1:33:03.160 --> 1:33:07.400 how some fires, you know you'll hear layman such as myself, 1:33:07.560 --> 1:33:11.280 you know, we'll talk about a fire, um burned too 1:33:11.400 --> 1:33:14.719 hot right or what was the term you're using seth 1:33:15.320 --> 1:33:19.800 soil glazing right where it creates this this situation where 1:33:19.840 --> 1:33:23.400 it's hard for the forest to recover, as opposed to 1:33:23.800 --> 1:33:26.840 certain kind of fires that maybe are not the not 1:33:27.000 --> 1:33:30.519 the case, Like, what's the vocabulary for what I'm trying 1:33:30.560 --> 1:33:33.200 to get at here about these fires that that that 1:33:33.760 --> 1:33:37.120 that just strip it of organic strip the soil of 1:33:37.160 --> 1:33:39.920 any kind of organic matter. It's very hard to come 1:33:40.000 --> 1:33:44.599 back versus I don't know, a good fire, a happy fire. Yeah. 1:33:45.240 --> 1:33:50.000 So in terms of the words, intensity means the energy 1:33:50.120 --> 1:33:53.120 that's released at the head and fire the flaming front 1:33:53.200 --> 1:33:56.080 of a fire, right, and that's sort of that's in 1:33:56.240 --> 1:33:59.799 killer watts. It's a bunch of energy and the effects 1:33:59.840 --> 1:34:03.160 are the fire. We discussed them as severity, and it 1:34:03.240 --> 1:34:06.160 can be soil severity. How bad is to cook out 1:34:06.200 --> 1:34:08.680 the duff and litter in the organics? Right, And then 1:34:08.720 --> 1:34:12.040 you've got severity as it relates to what happened to 1:34:12.080 --> 1:34:14.920 the forest that used to be there, how much got killed? 1:34:15.200 --> 1:34:18.559 And we think about severity in both of those ways. 1:34:18.720 --> 1:34:22.800 Right now, when soil severity is low and we have 1:34:22.960 --> 1:34:27.320 sort of intermediate uh, fire severity in terms of fire 1:34:27.360 --> 1:34:30.240 effects on the forest, what you see is all sorts 1:34:30.280 --> 1:34:33.439 of opportunities for forests to walk back. But when you 1:34:33.520 --> 1:34:38.080 have soil severity that's really high and centuries millennia of 1:34:38.240 --> 1:34:41.479 duff and litter and organic accumulation gets cooked out to 1:34:42.320 --> 1:34:45.800 you know, ten twelve inches, you're literally starting over, and 1:34:45.880 --> 1:34:49.440 it can take hundreds of years for a forest to reobtain. 1:34:49.720 --> 1:34:53.960 When fire soil severity is fine, it can burn down, 1:34:54.120 --> 1:34:56.639 you say it can. It can burn down twelve inches 1:34:56.720 --> 1:35:00.360 like some seed hiding out down there. It's just gone. 1:35:01.160 --> 1:35:04.640 So there's some seeds in the soil what we call 1:35:04.680 --> 1:35:08.640 the soil seed reserve or the seed cash that have 1:35:08.840 --> 1:35:11.559 got a lot of apps for being able to hang out, 1:35:11.760 --> 1:35:14.240 and they actually many of them are turned on by 1:35:15.000 --> 1:35:18.040 by high heat. So when you're hunting in a logical 1:35:18.160 --> 1:35:19.840 area and you see a bunch of c and this, 1:35:19.960 --> 1:35:24.320 for example, hanging out seeds in the seed cache got 1:35:24.439 --> 1:35:28.920 turned on by the heating and there are that's the 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:32.640 treatment that allows them to germinate and become shrubs, um 1:35:32.960 --> 1:35:38.720 others that that rely on perennial root systems. If the 1:35:39.080 --> 1:35:41.439 heat is too high, then an awful lot of the 1:35:41.520 --> 1:35:44.000 herbs and the grasses and stuff, it's a do over 1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:46.439 for them and they have to get seeded in from 1:35:46.520 --> 1:35:50.080 someplace else. So soil severy is a big deal, and 1:35:50.520 --> 1:35:53.960 it's a super smart question because in this whole mix 1:35:54.120 --> 1:35:58.479 of how do patterns influence forest fires that we like 1:35:58.840 --> 1:36:02.760 versus those that do damage to the habitat and resources, 1:36:03.200 --> 1:36:05.720 all of this comes into the max how much duff 1:36:05.800 --> 1:36:08.960 and litter is they're available to burn. If you have 1:36:09.240 --> 1:36:11.639 a really hot fire, a lot of times you'll see 1:36:11.720 --> 1:36:17.200 this smoldering combustion go on for weeks and that smoldering 1:36:17.479 --> 1:36:20.280 combustion is what if it's hot and dry, is what 1:36:20.360 --> 1:36:23.759 will cook out the soil. So it's just constant heating 1:36:23.960 --> 1:36:26.639 sitting on top of that soil, and you'll see these 1:36:26.720 --> 1:36:29.680 red soils and ashed soils right when you're out there 1:36:29.680 --> 1:36:33.240 in the bush, and it's because high soil severity has 1:36:33.280 --> 1:36:35.519 occurred and it's going to very tough for the forest 1:36:35.600 --> 1:36:39.599 to come back. I find that when people talk about 1:36:40.720 --> 1:36:43.600 you know, oh, the problem is that we didn't do this, 1:36:43.960 --> 1:36:48.879 or the problem is this sometimes kind of demonstrates someone's 1:36:48.920 --> 1:36:55.400 particular worldview UM, meaning someone from a certain industry. You 1:36:55.479 --> 1:36:57.280 might point and be like, oh, it's because we're not 1:36:57.400 --> 1:37:00.760 doing forest management. It's because the you know, or it's 1:37:00.760 --> 1:37:04.600 because the radical environmental um element won't let us do 1:37:04.960 --> 1:37:07.040 what we need to do. Or someone might say, oh, 1:37:07.120 --> 1:37:11.040 it's because you know climate change UM. And a lot 1:37:11.040 --> 1:37:12.880 of times it's sort of like ties into sort of 1:37:13.200 --> 1:37:19.200 you know where your biases are. But talk about management 1:37:20.800 --> 1:37:24.200 for a minute, meaning if we had the public will 1:37:24.360 --> 1:37:28.720 in the in the public will and the resources to 1:37:29.120 --> 1:37:32.360 address what we could address outside of trying to tackle 1:37:32.439 --> 1:37:37.280 global climate change UM. Not that we should leave it untackled, 1:37:37.320 --> 1:37:42.120 but just that look like that's a bigger, probably decades 1:37:42.280 --> 1:37:46.640 centuries long problem. Um, what in the immediate in the 1:37:46.720 --> 1:37:51.880 immediate term, if we had public will and resources, could 1:37:51.960 --> 1:37:56.320 we actually be doing right now to get a grip 1:37:56.400 --> 1:37:59.800 on the problem? And who what stands in the way 1:37:59.840 --> 1:38:03.040 of us? Well, I got a lead was saying that 1:38:04.160 --> 1:38:08.639 the big ticket item is reducing greenhouse gas emissions. That's 1:38:08.800 --> 1:38:11.439 what's driving the bus on big area burned right now, 1:38:11.520 --> 1:38:15.560 and so grabbing ahold of it and having the mindset 1:38:15.640 --> 1:38:18.160 that we're going to do something about those emissions is 1:38:18.680 --> 1:38:22.040 super critical because it's going to take decades for that 1:38:23.080 --> 1:38:25.760 change to pulse through the system and for CEO two 1:38:25.800 --> 1:38:28.960 in the atmosphere to come down. So it's yesterday we 1:38:29.040 --> 1:38:31.880 have to start that process. That's probing the bus. In 1:38:32.120 --> 1:38:35.799 terms of in terms of what's going on with the forest, 1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:39.479 we know that area burns driven by hot, dry climate, windy, 1:38:40.320 --> 1:38:42.840 severe weather, that kind of thing. But we know that 1:38:43.120 --> 1:38:45.680 to fuel and forced density and that sort of thing 1:38:46.040 --> 1:38:50.520 is what creates the intense heating that causes soil severity 1:38:50.720 --> 1:38:55.160 and fire severity. And so going back to the things 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:58.360 that I study, when I look back on the historical landscapes. 1:38:58.439 --> 1:39:01.120 What I see is on the ridge tops, on the 1:39:01.240 --> 1:39:05.720 dry south aspects, the forests were really open. Sometimes you'd 1:39:05.760 --> 1:39:08.639 call them just a sparse woodland, you know, open pines 1:39:09.680 --> 1:39:12.479 on dry doug first sites, open woodland of doug fur, 1:39:13.080 --> 1:39:17.479 that sort of thing, open limber pine sites. And and 1:39:17.640 --> 1:39:20.519 what's happened in during this period of fire exclusion, which 1:39:20.600 --> 1:39:24.679 starts with the loss of indigenous burning hundred and fifty 1:39:24.760 --> 1:39:28.400 hundred seventy years ago, trees started seating in, and they 1:39:28.439 --> 1:39:31.120 started getting bigger, and they kept seating in, especially the 1:39:31.240 --> 1:39:36.160 ones that are fire intolerant and shade loving. Okay, so 1:39:36.400 --> 1:39:38.960 doug furs, grand Furst, white first, those sorts of things 1:39:39.040 --> 1:39:42.800 are are seeding in and so open becomes closed over 1:39:42.840 --> 1:39:46.519 a hundred and fifty years. And it's that patchwork of 1:39:46.640 --> 1:39:50.479 open and closed conditions that changed how fire flowed on 1:39:50.600 --> 1:39:54.360 the landscape. When you had an open canopy condition, fires 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:57.360 would stay on the forest floor and they'd burn up 1:39:57.439 --> 1:40:01.839 the dead wood that accumulated, and free quent fires increase 1:40:01.920 --> 1:40:04.680 the likelihood that the next fire would be low severity. 1:40:04.920 --> 1:40:07.360 So you had these frequent low severity systems in the 1:40:07.479 --> 1:40:11.080 dryer forest down in the valley bottoms around the north aspects, 1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:14.559 you would see conditions that would be more would be denser, 1:40:14.640 --> 1:40:17.000 and there'd be more layered. And that's where different kinds 1:40:17.040 --> 1:40:21.280 of habitats were occurring, but they didn't dominate the entire landscape, right, 1:40:21.560 --> 1:40:25.080 And so the way fire flowed on the landscape was 1:40:25.200 --> 1:40:28.320 influenced by how much deadwood, how open or closed, and 1:40:28.439 --> 1:40:31.040 how layered the canopy was. And so you'd see this 1:40:31.200 --> 1:40:34.639 mosaic being repeated, not in the same place, but you'd 1:40:34.680 --> 1:40:37.840 see it the shifting mosaic occurring and that's those were 1:40:38.040 --> 1:40:43.000 feedbacks to reducing the severities of the next fires. Big 1:40:43.120 --> 1:40:47.120 fires are not noteworthy in the historical record. There are 1:40:47.640 --> 1:40:51.000 many many big fires. That's what's going on inside of them. 1:40:51.160 --> 1:40:54.360 Those those boundaries that's changed. He used to be a 1:40:54.439 --> 1:40:59.280 patchwork of of low severity, didn't burn high severity kind 1:40:59.320 --> 1:41:01.559 of in between, right, And so you get this very 1:41:01.640 --> 1:41:05.280 blotchy pattern and that produced all the habitats for the 1:41:05.479 --> 1:41:10.280 critters that were interested in And that's what went out 1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:13.240 of the system, right. And I think a lot of 1:41:13.320 --> 1:41:16.320 it has to do with the a lot of factors 1:41:16.439 --> 1:41:20.720 that sort of collaborate or come together to create a 1:41:20.840 --> 1:41:25.280 condition of forests and forestry were not the original intent 1:41:25.400 --> 1:41:27.960 of the U S forest Ors. It was protecting water 1:41:28.280 --> 1:41:31.240 and grazing that was the original intent of the Forest Service. 1:41:31.479 --> 1:41:35.120 After World War Two, trees and logs became important, and 1:41:35.760 --> 1:41:38.040 we started logging the big trees because they had the 1:41:38.120 --> 1:41:41.360 most volume at the time and they were most merchantable. 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:44.360 And every time we'd pull out big sticks, trees would 1:41:44.439 --> 1:41:47.080 regenerate and release and make the forest denser. So you 1:41:47.160 --> 1:41:51.040 can see that evolution of several factors coming together, and 1:41:51.320 --> 1:41:54.960 by four we got the ten em rule. We're putting 1:41:55.000 --> 1:41:57.400 fires out by ten am, and we're keeping less than 1:41:57.439 --> 1:41:59.880 ten acres, and so now you have fifty sixty years 1:42:00.720 --> 1:42:04.439 where the forest has a chance to get dense layered 1:42:05.160 --> 1:42:07.599 and be now prone to severe fire in a lot 1:42:07.720 --> 1:42:12.400 more places. I got a quick question, um, Paul, is 1:42:12.640 --> 1:42:16.200 is that something like that was open grown forests like 1:42:16.320 --> 1:42:17.800 you were talking about back in the day. Is that 1:42:17.920 --> 1:42:21.280 something that with management today that like for Service is 1:42:21.280 --> 1:42:23.639 trying to get back to or is that something that's 1:42:23.680 --> 1:42:27.160 just like never gonna happen again. That's a great question, 1:42:27.400 --> 1:42:30.400 and it's a big ticket item, not just the Forest Service, 1:42:30.439 --> 1:42:33.360 but a lot of forest managers are literally trying to 1:42:34.160 --> 1:42:36.960 put those open ground conditions with the bigger trees on 1:42:37.040 --> 1:42:40.960 the landscape because big trees that bark fire tolerant you know, pine, 1:42:41.040 --> 1:42:44.080 big duck for big western march, they can tolerate fire. 1:42:44.200 --> 1:42:49.160 And so getting stuff you know, fifteen to thirty totes 1:42:49.240 --> 1:42:52.360 back on the landscape and having those via the dominant 1:42:52.479 --> 1:42:55.080 veg cover is the bed hedge on climate change and 1:42:55.240 --> 1:42:58.879 changing fire regimes. So they're doing it in many places 1:42:59.000 --> 1:43:02.160 that they can uh where really it makes sense in 1:43:02.240 --> 1:43:05.240 the landscape right hot dry places, places that are gonna 1:43:05.680 --> 1:43:09.400 need to stay open to stay in forest when you 1:43:09.520 --> 1:43:13.040 get too into where the next big fire is gonna hit. 1:43:13.520 --> 1:43:16.879 Are you, guys, do you have like a sophisticated modeling 1:43:17.000 --> 1:43:23.040 mechanism that allows you to in some way predict what's 1:43:23.760 --> 1:43:26.280 most likely to go? Or is it is there just 1:43:26.360 --> 1:43:31.160 too much sort of randomness around cause that prevents you 1:43:31.240 --> 1:43:35.920 from really understanding, you know, what's next. If anybody, if 1:43:35.960 --> 1:43:37.920 any of us had that model, we'd be wealthy. People 1:43:37.960 --> 1:43:43.320 wouldn't um the There's a lot of cool modeling going 1:43:43.400 --> 1:43:46.960 on right now that predicts if you have ignitions. So 1:43:47.439 --> 1:43:50.440 a lot of my modeling friends will nuke the landscape 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:53.599 with random ignitions. And the last the question what will 1:43:54.720 --> 1:44:00.280 um fire size and fire severity be under different weather conditions? Right, 1:44:00.520 --> 1:44:03.200 and so they can create sort of map services of 1:44:03.600 --> 1:44:08.200 what's likely. They call it a quantitative risk assessment. It's 1:44:08.240 --> 1:44:11.200 being done all over the United States right now with 1:44:11.360 --> 1:44:14.879 some existing tools. The problem is they are random factors. 1:44:15.120 --> 1:44:17.160 There's a ton of human ignitions. Where are they going 1:44:17.200 --> 1:44:20.880 to occur? Nobody knows. So often conditions are ready to 1:44:21.040 --> 1:44:25.439 burn across an enormous area, tens of millions of acres, 1:44:25.520 --> 1:44:27.960 but nobody knows where the human ignition is coming from. 1:44:28.479 --> 1:44:31.200 Nobody knows where you're going to get the dry lightning. 1:44:31.920 --> 1:44:34.840 We get these dry convective storms all the time, right, 1:44:34.840 --> 1:44:37.320 You've seen them out there on the landscape. Sometimes they're wet, 1:44:37.560 --> 1:44:40.479 their thunderstorms with a lot of rain. Sometimes they're dry 1:44:40.680 --> 1:44:43.320 and they'll just bomb a mountain range and you know, 1:44:43.520 --> 1:44:46.360 put it on fire. So, um, there's a lot of 1:44:46.439 --> 1:44:49.960 wild cards in the mix for these factors as they 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:52.560 have to come together, and in the randomness of the 1:44:52.600 --> 1:44:57.280 ignitions is a big part of it. Uh, do humans 1:44:57.439 --> 1:45:01.720 lead lightning for causes of major fires? And a lot 1:45:01.760 --> 1:45:04.840 of areas. They really do a lot of areas the 1:45:04.880 --> 1:45:07.560 fires are actually human caused. What are they doing? What 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:09.560 are what? What are they? What are we doing? Like 1:45:10.280 --> 1:45:14.120 you know, flicking matches, throwing cigarettes out of the window, 1:45:14.200 --> 1:45:16.880 Like what is the primary thing that folks are up to? 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:21.840 So um, So we look at all the ignition data 1:45:21.840 --> 1:45:25.160 across the western US right now, we have ignition data 1:45:25.240 --> 1:45:29.040 sets over the last decades, and believe it or not, 1:45:29.400 --> 1:45:33.960 hunter campfires are a big deal. We see we see 1:45:34.040 --> 1:45:36.799 sort of the ignition period of the normal fire season, 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:39.599 but when we get into the rett and we start 1:45:39.680 --> 1:45:45.000 seeing people in the woods starting in late August September 1:45:45.479 --> 1:45:50.080 on into October, there's another peak from hunter fires that 1:45:50.280 --> 1:45:56.760 essentially are igniting continuing tonight the landscape. So hunters can 1:45:57.200 --> 1:45:59.519 contribute an awful lot by you know, making sure that 1:45:59.600 --> 1:46:02.680 they they tamped their fire out. But we actually see 1:46:02.720 --> 1:46:05.080 a pulse in the data most years. You know, that's 1:46:05.240 --> 1:46:07.720 that's really interesting, man, because I kind of wrote them off. 1:46:07.800 --> 1:46:10.920 But I had a guy know who's a firefighter and Wyoming, 1:46:10.960 --> 1:46:14.320 and he swore up and down to me that they 1:46:14.640 --> 1:46:18.840 when archery season, when elk archery opens, they have a 1:46:18.920 --> 1:46:23.760 busy few days of responding to fires. I was like, 1:46:23.840 --> 1:46:26.120 that can't be true, man, he goes, I'm telling you, dude, 1:46:26.479 --> 1:46:29.840 every year it's a real thing, and it's it's bigger 1:46:29.880 --> 1:46:33.519 than Wyoming, right, Um, and a lot of us when 1:46:33.560 --> 1:46:36.320 it's pretty darn cold out there, we'll put together a 1:46:36.360 --> 1:46:40.240 little warm and fire and and they, you know, critters 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:42.040 come through the neighborhood and all of a sudden we're 1:46:42.080 --> 1:46:45.599 shooting and flinging arrows. And sometimes that fire doesn't get 1:46:45.680 --> 1:46:49.080 tamped down, so um and and they'll take a walk 1:46:49.120 --> 1:46:52.200 because the fuels are still drying. Right, I want to 1:46:52.240 --> 1:46:54.599 get back. I'm gonna let I'm gonna let these other 1:46:54.640 --> 1:46:57.040 guys hit some questions. But I want to circle back 1:46:57.120 --> 1:47:00.680 on part of Yanni's question that I was particularly trigued by. 1:47:01.280 --> 1:47:03.439 And you didn't get around to it. And maybe it's 1:47:03.439 --> 1:47:08.000 too hard to answer, but um, if you model, let 1:47:08.120 --> 1:47:11.200 let's take you can do your own state Washington, you 1:47:11.240 --> 1:47:14.560 can do California whatever you want. If it's possible to 1:47:14.600 --> 1:47:18.200 answer this, you take a map of what could burn, 1:47:18.400 --> 1:47:21.200 or you know, like take a map of like highly likelihood, 1:47:21.360 --> 1:47:28.080 high likelihood landscapes and Washington that are prime for a fire. Um, 1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:32.599 and what percentage of that have we like whittled away 1:47:32.680 --> 1:47:37.200 at over the last couple of decades, meaning well, in 1:47:37.400 --> 1:47:41.840 five years, well California or Washington have run out of 1:47:43.640 --> 1:47:49.400 have like run out of what could burn because they burned? No, no, 1:47:49.720 --> 1:47:54.080 I did answer the question, what is the model? The 1:47:54.200 --> 1:47:57.280 model that you're thinking about is actually not the right one. 1:47:58.080 --> 1:48:01.960 As the climate warms and ignition continue to increase over time, 1:48:02.320 --> 1:48:05.920 areas that already burned produce all sorts of flashy fuels. 1:48:08.000 --> 1:48:11.280 They're available to burn every single year. So depending upon 1:48:11.400 --> 1:48:14.960 the severity of the previous fire, you can continue to 1:48:15.120 --> 1:48:18.719 burn and reburn those areas, and more often you reburn 1:48:18.840 --> 1:48:21.320 them in a short time span, the less likely that 1:48:21.479 --> 1:48:24.719 they'll come back to forest if the fires are severe. Okay, 1:48:24.960 --> 1:48:27.360 that was that was the gas being smarter than the host. 1:48:27.400 --> 1:48:29.439 I forgot about that? You did? You did? Uh? You 1:48:29.520 --> 1:48:32.840 did answer that? Um? Thank you? All right? What else 1:48:32.880 --> 1:48:37.600 you guys got? I got one, Paul. So we know 1:48:37.800 --> 1:48:42.559 that like, low intensity fires are generally good for deer 1:48:42.640 --> 1:48:45.759 and elk and all kinds of other you know, animals 1:48:45.800 --> 1:48:48.320 and birds. When you when you get one of these 1:48:48.479 --> 1:48:55.080 giant high intensity fires, how do animals like elk, Like, 1:48:55.240 --> 1:48:58.040 how does that affect how they use the landscape after 1:48:58.200 --> 1:49:02.559 one of these really high intensity giant fires, Like where 1:49:03.000 --> 1:49:04.880 I heard of a couple of thousand elk may have 1:49:05.040 --> 1:49:10.280 lived in one drainage and now that it's all burned out. Yeah, 1:49:10.840 --> 1:49:13.280 well that happened to me and my favorite hunting spots 1:49:13.320 --> 1:49:15.439 in the Blue Mountains of Oregon. I think it's happening 1:49:15.479 --> 1:49:18.439 to a lot of hunters these days. Yeah so so, 1:49:18.840 --> 1:49:21.520 But what I wanted to use as a specific example, 1:49:22.000 --> 1:49:25.599 um where I was there before the fire and then 1:49:25.640 --> 1:49:28.840 after the fire, and and had the hunting experience after 1:49:28.920 --> 1:49:32.200 the fire each year. Okay, So we hunted in an 1:49:32.240 --> 1:49:34.960 area where there was fifty acre fires. A big fire 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:37.439 is super hot and it killed most of the forest. 1:49:38.160 --> 1:49:41.400 This is uh an area we hunt in the late hunt. 1:49:41.560 --> 1:49:44.639 So we're there last week of October and first week 1:49:44.680 --> 1:49:48.080 in November, right, and we're hunting in snow and so 1:49:48.680 --> 1:49:51.640 and it's a it's a fabulous time to hunt. The 1:49:52.520 --> 1:49:55.280 bowls are in bachelor groups and a lot of times 1:49:55.320 --> 1:49:57.479 we'll get a lot of excellent looks. Right, And so 1:49:57.760 --> 1:50:00.720 we hunted this before the fire and was very very 1:50:00.760 --> 1:50:04.479 productive area. After the fire, it was so hot, but 1:50:04.600 --> 1:50:07.560 the forage conditions were really good for about five or 1:50:07.600 --> 1:50:10.160 six years, so we still tag bowls in this area 1:50:10.640 --> 1:50:13.600 after the fire, And then then this came up. The 1:50:13.720 --> 1:50:18.040 lodgepole pine started falling down in jacks drawing, and we 1:50:18.200 --> 1:50:20.960 hunted for two years after that. We had a hard 1:50:21.000 --> 1:50:24.759 time even getting around the dog here, lodgepole pine, cutting lanes, 1:50:24.840 --> 1:50:28.320 that kind of thing. Um. But eventually it became too 1:50:28.400 --> 1:50:32.400 hard for hunters and elk to reoccupy the area. So 1:50:32.560 --> 1:50:34.600 this is a vast area that's going to have to 1:50:34.640 --> 1:50:37.800 grow open forest, a lot of lodgepoles, smaller stuff is 1:50:37.800 --> 1:50:40.839 gonna have to fall down, creating openings in the woods, 1:50:40.880 --> 1:50:43.559 shade out the Cno, this that sort of thing. I'll 1:50:43.600 --> 1:50:45.599 never get to hunt there in the rest of my life. 1:50:46.800 --> 1:50:51.240 What generation will really depends on sort of the disturbance 1:50:51.320 --> 1:50:54.200 history that happens in there in the coming decades. If 1:50:54.240 --> 1:50:57.080 they just allow it to grow up, it's gonna be 1:50:57.479 --> 1:51:01.880 a very dense dog hair place with cis and lodge 1:51:01.920 --> 1:51:04.560 pole pine. You know, the stem counts and most of 1:51:04.640 --> 1:51:10.200 the areas where I had stands, we're in the five 1:51:10.360 --> 1:51:14.080 to twenty thousand lodge bowl stems breaker they're just it's 1:51:14.160 --> 1:51:17.160 like hair and the dog literally dance lodge Pole pine 1:51:17.200 --> 1:51:20.759 after the fire. This is a six thousand to nearly 1:51:20.840 --> 1:51:23.360 seven thousand feet elevation, So we're up in this sabutin 1:51:23.439 --> 1:51:26.160 right in the cold forest, and it's gonna be a 1:51:26.240 --> 1:51:28.280 long time. If other fires come in there and they 1:51:28.320 --> 1:51:32.960 start pockmarking that landscape again, uh, then you'll start to 1:51:33.000 --> 1:51:37.320 see those habitats come alive again. But it's not interesting 1:51:37.439 --> 1:51:40.320 for forage. It's hard to get around and eat um. 1:51:41.520 --> 1:51:43.720 I sort of used to think from the days when 1:51:43.720 --> 1:51:45.720 my father took me hunting that if it's hard for 1:51:45.800 --> 1:51:47.240 me to get around, it's going to be hard for 1:51:47.360 --> 1:51:48.760 white tail to get around. I grew up in the 1:51:48.840 --> 1:51:52.600 Lake States hunting in Minnesota, and the same thing. You know, 1:51:52.760 --> 1:51:55.400 if they're really having a pussy toe to get from 1:51:55.439 --> 1:51:57.479 place to place and it takes a long time and 1:51:57.600 --> 1:52:00.680 it's difficult to find forage and not going to hang out. 1:52:01.400 --> 1:52:04.960 There were tremendous bedding and forage areas in this patchwork 1:52:05.400 --> 1:52:09.400 for many decades and that's gone. That's a completely different 1:52:09.439 --> 1:52:13.639 look and feel to the place. So decades and there's 1:52:13.680 --> 1:52:15.479 got to be fire and other stuff going on to 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:20.479 start breaking it up again recreating That was the I 1:52:20.520 --> 1:52:22.720 have a question Paul, you kind of touched on it 1:52:22.880 --> 1:52:26.600 about you know, super popular now and force management to 1:52:26.680 --> 1:52:29.960 bring prescribed fire now as you talked about in the south, 1:52:30.640 --> 1:52:33.240 but more so at that like inner Mountain West or 1:52:33.320 --> 1:52:37.000 western landscapes, especially in the Wui's like all those will 1:52:37.120 --> 1:52:42.000 and urban areas. Um, are we losing our window with 1:52:42.120 --> 1:52:45.800 climate change to do have a lot more prescribed fire 1:52:45.920 --> 1:52:47.800 because I know you have the weather conditions, have to 1:52:47.840 --> 1:52:52.320 be perfect safety everything and have fire conditions and have 1:52:52.439 --> 1:52:54.840 the burn you want. Are we Is that affecting like 1:52:54.960 --> 1:52:57.080 how much prescribed fire we can put on the ground 1:52:57.840 --> 1:53:00.200 or no, is it not as much as we inc 1:53:01.160 --> 1:53:04.280 It's a smart question. The windows really shifting. It's getting smaller, 1:53:04.280 --> 1:53:08.400 it's not getting bigger um and a lot of but 1:53:08.479 --> 1:53:11.040 there's still a ton of management going on and interface 1:53:11.200 --> 1:53:14.040 environments by a lot of different kinds of managers. A 1:53:14.120 --> 1:53:15.760 lot of what they're doing is they're coming in and 1:53:15.800 --> 1:53:20.840 they're thinning there, creating small piles for the fuel concentrations. 1:53:20.880 --> 1:53:23.760 They're burning those piles and you'll see a lot less 1:53:23.760 --> 1:53:28.360 broadcast burning, which is the wild card right in those situations. 1:53:28.400 --> 1:53:31.600 Where he got homes tucked in and and dense developments. 1:53:31.680 --> 1:53:34.000 But you still have the pile burning that you can do. 1:53:34.360 --> 1:53:35.880 And if you think about it, you can do pile 1:53:35.960 --> 1:53:40.720 burning all winter long. Um so uh and there's a 1:53:40.800 --> 1:53:43.800 pretty big window for that. So even with I guess 1:53:43.840 --> 1:53:46.200 a two part of that. So even with climate change, 1:53:46.800 --> 1:53:50.280 you're still saying we're we're doing good by pre commercial 1:53:50.360 --> 1:53:53.960 thinnings and mastication and all that, just reducing that trees 1:53:54.000 --> 1:53:56.120 per acre in a lot of that area. Even though 1:53:56.400 --> 1:53:58.800 we are getting hotter and drier, we're still that's still 1:53:58.840 --> 1:54:02.439 a good move mint of force management. Yeah, we we 1:54:02.520 --> 1:54:04.720 have to use as much of the window as possible 1:54:05.000 --> 1:54:10.720 and uh and and and treat these areas basically keep 1:54:10.800 --> 1:54:14.479 people in their infrastructure safe and then move out from 1:54:14.560 --> 1:54:16.679 that because if you think about it, how the fire 1:54:16.800 --> 1:54:20.559 comes to those communities is also a really key variable. 1:54:20.800 --> 1:54:25.599 Remember Paradise burn in California burned from spot fires five 1:54:25.680 --> 1:54:31.200 miles away, right, and so so changing that how fire 1:54:31.280 --> 1:54:34.800 operates on the broader landscape needs to be coupled with 1:54:35.480 --> 1:54:39.440 really creating those safe environments in the wooee and places 1:54:39.560 --> 1:54:42.960 near them. So, yeah, use as much of the window 1:54:43.000 --> 1:54:45.080 as you can. And the really cool thing we're seeing 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:47.200 is once we bust into an area and we get 1:54:47.240 --> 1:54:50.080 good treatments, the window gets bigger. We have more and 1:54:50.160 --> 1:54:52.600 more opportunity because we've knocked the fuels down and so 1:54:52.720 --> 1:54:55.240 the maintenance work that goes on there's a lot less 1:54:55.280 --> 1:54:58.720 hazardous and so. But the one key part of your 1:54:58.800 --> 1:55:02.480 question is if we don't have a fairly large footprint, 1:55:02.840 --> 1:55:05.240 as the window shrinks, it's going to be less and 1:55:05.360 --> 1:55:08.600 less likely that we'll be able to have the sort 1:55:08.640 --> 1:55:13.280 of size of the footprint that we need. So timing matters, Paul. 1:55:13.600 --> 1:55:18.360 A couple of years ago, the governor of Wyoming hadn't 1:55:18.440 --> 1:55:22.720 made an interesting comment. It was during the sort of 1:55:22.840 --> 1:55:28.200 height of this this movement to take federally managed lands 1:55:28.360 --> 1:55:33.480 and privatize them or transfer them to the states, and Um, 1:55:34.520 --> 1:55:37.600 the governor Wyoming had made a comment that if Wyoming 1:55:39.280 --> 1:55:44.200 had all of the federal lands under its jurisdiction, one 1:55:44.360 --> 1:55:49.240 fire season would bankrupt the state or something to that effect. 1:55:50.600 --> 1:55:55.360 Um him just pointing out the incredible cost of firework. 1:55:55.880 --> 1:55:58.920 You mentioned your own agency, the U. S. Forest Service, 1:55:59.000 --> 1:56:03.800 And it's sort of, you know, it's it's evolving gradually 1:56:03.880 --> 1:56:10.320 shifting set of priorities. What how much you know can 1:56:10.360 --> 1:56:14.800 you quantify the sort of like time, money, brain space 1:56:16.000 --> 1:56:21.280 that your agency is now dedicated to fire, presumably at 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:27.080 the expense of other priorities. Years ago, sevent of the 1:56:27.160 --> 1:56:31.880 gross National Forest Service budget went to fire suppression on 1:56:31.960 --> 1:56:34.720 an average fire year. That varies now between fifty and 1:56:35.800 --> 1:56:38.600 of the budget. So you can see that the fire 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:43.760 issues is much larger, and it's incomprehensible for an agency 1:56:43.880 --> 1:56:47.640 like the Forest Service or any other responsible agency to 1:56:47.880 --> 1:56:50.360 say that we're not going to try to keep people 1:56:50.480 --> 1:56:53.520 safe and to protect the land and so so you'll 1:56:53.560 --> 1:56:58.520 see those investments increasing, but the proactive work has lagged behind. 1:56:59.680 --> 1:57:01.560 Uh And if you stop and think about if the 1:57:01.600 --> 1:57:04.960 research is showing that being able to work on the 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:09.600 landscape before the fact has a higher payoff than reacting 1:57:09.800 --> 1:57:13.040 in some of the worst moments when it's going to 1:57:13.080 --> 1:57:15.640 be difficult to stop the fires and keeping small. So 1:57:16.240 --> 1:57:19.480 so there needs to be this coupling at fairly large 1:57:19.560 --> 1:57:23.240 scales of trying to keep people safe while with proactive 1:57:23.320 --> 1:57:27.120 work we're able to be able to buy down the 1:57:27.560 --> 1:57:30.360 changes that have occurred over the last century and a half. 1:57:30.480 --> 1:57:34.560 And you're seeing the current administration talk pretty seriously about 1:57:34.680 --> 1:57:37.480 making some significant events, and a lot of our neighbors 1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:42.920 Californias has invested five hundred million dollars, the state of 1:57:43.000 --> 1:57:46.880 Oregon is investing hundreds of millions. Washington State kind of 1:57:46.960 --> 1:57:49.320 the same thing. And so you're seeing a lot of 1:57:50.000 --> 1:57:54.200 state and federal folks looking at how they can put 1:57:54.280 --> 1:57:57.360 together the people and the resources to operate at scale 1:57:57.640 --> 1:58:00.480 on the problem. Yeah, I imagine it's hard to get 1:58:00.800 --> 1:58:07.840 It's hard to get policymakers, politicians convinced, um, you know, 1:58:07.960 --> 1:58:10.400 when budgets are tight, to convince them that you can 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:15.840 spend a dollar now and save two later. Right, Like 1:58:16.080 --> 1:58:18.400 the logic adds up. But I imagine it's still a 1:58:18.480 --> 1:58:20.680 hard conversation to have, and it's probably hard to get 1:58:20.720 --> 1:58:24.240 people to want to invest up front rather than waiting 1:58:24.360 --> 1:58:28.600 till it's you know, literally a house on fire, um, 1:58:29.240 --> 1:58:33.280 and and deal with it then at at a higher cost. Absolutely, 1:58:33.560 --> 1:58:35.400 And you know, we're starting to get some really good 1:58:35.520 --> 1:58:41.120 data um Headwaters Economics. A number of our partners across 1:58:41.320 --> 1:58:45.560 the West are are capturing the cost after the fire 1:58:45.720 --> 1:58:48.960 kinds of estimates, and they're comparing it to the suppression estimates, 1:58:49.000 --> 1:58:52.480 and I think increasingly as these data get out, people 1:58:52.520 --> 1:58:55.560 are basically seeing it's a clever move to be able 1:58:55.640 --> 1:58:58.920 to minimize the total impact on society because they after 1:58:59.040 --> 1:59:02.320 the fire impact is much larger than the suppression cost 1:59:02.800 --> 1:59:05.560 or even the cost to do the proactive work. So 1:59:05.720 --> 1:59:07.880 you're seeing that starting to hit pay dirt, and you're 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:11.720 starting to see those kinds of decisions and investments. You 1:59:11.760 --> 1:59:14.680 think about it, it's it's a fairly significant shift and 1:59:14.760 --> 1:59:17.240 people have to really sharpen their pencils and look at 1:59:17.280 --> 1:59:20.960 the trade offs. And because there's not an endless supply 1:59:21.040 --> 1:59:23.880 of money, right, they're having to make tough decisions about 1:59:23.920 --> 1:59:27.440 where to invest resources. So Paul just we touched on 1:59:27.560 --> 1:59:31.720 climate change with fire intensity and then like early succession, 1:59:31.800 --> 1:59:34.360 like a lot of forests transitioning from that early successional 1:59:34.440 --> 1:59:37.400 to late successional you know, age class tree s breaker. 1:59:37.480 --> 1:59:40.880 But what about is there any significant impact on over 1:59:41.240 --> 1:59:45.880 on fire as a landscape level um with like insect 1:59:45.960 --> 1:59:48.000 and disease, So they have like like white pine blister 1:59:48.120 --> 1:59:51.640 rested with white pine, mountain pine beetle, or even just 1:59:51.800 --> 1:59:54.640 invasives to like cheat grass and stuff, Like how how 1:59:54.720 --> 1:59:57.760 big of a role is the shifting of insect disease 1:59:57.880 --> 2:00:00.840 or invasives playing in the change of fire intensities in 2:00:00.880 --> 2:00:05.240 the West. So in terms of invasives, the more severe 2:00:05.600 --> 2:00:09.280 the fire and the more the soil severity impact, the 2:00:09.400 --> 2:00:12.800 likelihood of invasives really getting a stronghold and expanding is 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:19.480 a big deal. Invasives are less than well understood problem 2:00:19.720 --> 2:00:23.840 in in the public eye, and they really, they really 2:00:23.920 --> 2:00:27.240 have the ability to change the landscape. Think about cheat 2:00:27.320 --> 2:00:30.560 grass in the places that you've hunted. When cheat grass 2:00:30.640 --> 2:00:34.400 obtains across the landscape, it changes the fire regime so 2:00:34.720 --> 2:00:38.040 that the bunch grasses that used to be there, when 2:00:38.080 --> 2:00:40.840 they are replaced by cheat grasses, you have a continuous 2:00:40.880 --> 2:00:43.520 fuel bed and those areas can keep burning. And so 2:00:43.720 --> 2:00:47.080 cheat grass gets a purchase on the landscape and it 2:00:47.200 --> 2:00:49.880 keeps growing in a much larger area. The same with 2:00:50.000 --> 2:00:52.520 a number of invasives. So invasives are a big deal. 2:00:53.480 --> 2:00:56.760 The bark beetle thing, the bark beetle of feedback is 2:00:56.800 --> 2:00:58.840 on the front end, right, So you have too many 2:00:58.920 --> 2:01:01.960 trees a low vigor during the hot, dry years, you 2:01:02.000 --> 2:01:05.000 get a lot of bark beetle mortality. Think of the 2:01:05.600 --> 2:01:08.520 million acres in British Columbia that went down early in 2:01:08.600 --> 2:01:13.120 the century, right, Um, awful lot of that collapses over 2:01:13.240 --> 2:01:15.880 one to three decades. And now you've got this incredible 2:01:15.920 --> 2:01:19.400 injection of fuel into the system, and that will produce 2:01:19.480 --> 2:01:22.720 a very different response across fairly large areas where you 2:01:22.760 --> 2:01:25.800 have big beetle upbreaks. So that's kind of the tail 2:01:25.880 --> 2:01:28.920 wagon the dog and that sort of thing. Um does 2:01:29.480 --> 2:01:33.520 do wildfires sanitize so that you don't have bark beetles? Yeah, 2:01:33.760 --> 2:01:35.680 for a time. And if the forest come back, and 2:01:35.720 --> 2:01:37.800 if they come back really dense, and once they get 2:01:37.840 --> 2:01:41.160 two diameters that are post material for the Beatles, you'll 2:01:41.200 --> 2:01:44.960 see that cycle happen again. So the fire regime, having 2:01:45.040 --> 2:01:47.720 a characteristic fire regime for the forest type is a 2:01:47.880 --> 2:01:51.160 key to keeping those things in balance over big space 2:01:51.240 --> 2:01:54.880 and time. That makes sense. The fire regime, having a 2:01:55.000 --> 2:01:58.920 characteristic fire regime is the engine that drives the system. Yeah, no, 2:01:59.080 --> 2:02:02.480 that makes perfect sense, thank you. Yeah, I know with 2:02:02.640 --> 2:02:06.040 climate change and fire shifting a lot. Now do you 2:02:06.400 --> 2:02:12.000 feel like we're making a positive UM advance socially? Like 2:02:12.080 --> 2:02:15.560 people are getting more accepting of like prescribed burning, understanding 2:02:16.200 --> 2:02:19.200 fire has a role. But then you know, high severity 2:02:19.240 --> 2:02:22.400 fires are damaging. Um, and do you think management is 2:02:22.720 --> 2:02:25.520 kind of transitioning to you know? It kind of seems 2:02:25.520 --> 2:02:28.360 like it's a pendulum swinging back and forth from the 2:02:28.760 --> 2:02:32.120 you know, ten am policy of fire suppression to you know, 2:02:32.200 --> 2:02:35.920 but like, do you think we're going in a positive route? 2:02:35.960 --> 2:02:40.000 I guess I do. It's another really smart question. So, UM, 2:02:40.200 --> 2:02:42.720 when I talk to my social scientists friends, what they're 2:02:42.760 --> 2:02:47.840 basically telling me is people get it. They're accepting of 2:02:48.040 --> 2:02:51.880 the treatments that are important to to move the compass 2:02:51.960 --> 2:02:55.360 heading right from where we are to a better place. Um, 2:02:56.240 --> 2:03:00.520 but we're also learning from them based on pastic experience 2:03:00.640 --> 2:03:04.680 that if treatments in the woods are driven primarily by 2:03:04.760 --> 2:03:09.040 a commercial desire, there's mistrust in the process. But where 2:03:09.320 --> 2:03:12.000 the timber removed is a byproduct of getting the right 2:03:12.040 --> 2:03:14.600 stuff done in the woods to be able to change conditions. 2:03:14.960 --> 2:03:17.120 There's a high degree of trust and that and that's 2:03:17.160 --> 2:03:19.520 a certain they call it a zone of agreement. People 2:03:19.600 --> 2:03:22.400 want to do that, but but the trust depends on 2:03:23.360 --> 2:03:27.640 being driven to climate change adapt and fire regime adapt 2:03:28.240 --> 2:03:30.800 the woods. It makes sense, so he as it does? 2:03:30.920 --> 2:03:33.440 Or do do you feel like the public is generally 2:03:34.440 --> 2:03:38.040 being more trustworthy of the federal especially the US Forest Service, 2:03:38.320 --> 2:03:41.240 as far as whenever kind of you know, any timber 2:03:41.280 --> 2:03:43.960 management is done it is not for timber production, but 2:03:44.040 --> 2:03:47.520 more for a civil culture based landscape level management. Do 2:03:47.560 --> 2:03:50.400 you think that's changing in the public's eye they're more um, 2:03:50.800 --> 2:03:52.520 you know, accepting of that, or do think it's still 2:03:52.560 --> 2:03:55.160 when they see any timber management being done they look 2:03:55.200 --> 2:03:59.120 at it as it's for that value. That's a good 2:03:59.200 --> 2:04:01.400 question because I think a lot of people who aren't 2:04:01.440 --> 2:04:08.120 well schooled reflectively, like if they see logging activity, they're 2:04:08.160 --> 2:04:11.160 sort of trained to be like, oh, that's bad. Yes, 2:04:11.480 --> 2:04:15.800 And how are those timber companies managing compared to the 2:04:15.960 --> 2:04:19.480 Forest Service? Like, I assume they're probably doing a fairly 2:04:19.560 --> 2:04:24.280 good job, but the perception is probably much different. Yeah, 2:04:24.400 --> 2:04:26.400 So there's a bunch of layers there. I'll try to 2:04:26.720 --> 2:04:31.120 hit it with one sort of overarching idea. The public 2:04:31.240 --> 2:04:33.760 is a big thing, right. It's made up of all 2:04:33.840 --> 2:04:38.120 sorts of disparate groups with different histories and attitudes and 2:04:38.280 --> 2:04:43.280 concerns and values. By and large, there's expanding trust to 2:04:43.480 --> 2:04:47.080 do good work with the devil's in the details, right, Um, 2:04:47.800 --> 2:04:52.440 what we generally see from the social science studies is uh, 2:04:53.000 --> 2:04:55.800 people who live closer to the land. So I'm thinking 2:04:56.040 --> 2:05:00.800 of the rural communities, people that are natural resource space there, 2:05:01.200 --> 2:05:07.640 Um they've got mills nearby, their ranching communities, farming communities. 2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:11.240 Where people live close to the land, there's very strong 2:05:11.440 --> 2:05:15.800 concern about the current conditions, and people are cooler about 2:05:16.680 --> 2:05:20.120 getting the work done. Where people live in more metropolitan 2:05:20.240 --> 2:05:22.840 areas and they're a little bit more detached, we see 2:05:23.600 --> 2:05:29.400 more of this highly different view of of sort of 2:05:29.480 --> 2:05:36.120 disaffection with forest management techniques and silvicultural techniques because there's 2:05:36.320 --> 2:05:39.680 still a deep vein of mistrust in some communities and 2:05:41.080 --> 2:05:44.720 so an awful lot of When I speak in public, 2:05:44.800 --> 2:05:48.200 I basically say I'm talking to you about a social 2:05:48.320 --> 2:05:52.360 problem that has an ecological explanation, all right, because the 2:05:52.480 --> 2:05:56.520 solution lives in the social domain. It's people coming together 2:05:56.640 --> 2:05:58.680 to agree on what to do, where to do it, 2:05:58.880 --> 2:06:02.160 and how to do it. Um. Well, I can explain 2:06:02.280 --> 2:06:04.280 from my research and that of a bunch of other 2:06:04.400 --> 2:06:07.839 colleagues how we got here and what the science suggests 2:06:08.440 --> 2:06:12.080 represents good work. But in the end, it's people coming 2:06:12.120 --> 2:06:15.120 together to forward to those agreements. And whether that happens 2:06:15.240 --> 2:06:18.480 fast enough and that scale, it remains to be seen. 2:06:18.800 --> 2:06:23.640 We're not there, Paul. I think we're good. Man appreciate it. Hey, thanks, 2:06:24.160 --> 2:06:26.880 thanks the work you guys do, keep it going. Thanks 2:06:26.880 --> 2:06:32.240 a lot again, Paul Hesberg. Um, he's got like a that. 2:06:32.560 --> 2:06:34.400 He's got some kind of ted talking. Go check out too. 2:06:34.400 --> 2:06:38.000 Maybe we'll put that in liner notes. Um, thank you 2:06:38.120 --> 2:06:42.200 guys all sitting here. Brodie, thanks for the smoke Lake trout. 2:06:42.400 --> 2:06:45.880 Next time, I won't dry it out pull a little earlier. 2:06:46.400 --> 2:06:48.520 I got a few more filets in there to experiment with. 2:06:49.080 --> 2:06:52.360 Rick and Seth. Thanks for hosting me on The Flintlock Hunt. Yeah, 2:06:53.080 --> 2:06:55.320 Chip in the poof available on Netflix. Yeah, thanks for 2:06:55.360 --> 2:06:57.400 having me on the podcast. Phil, thanks for stepping above 2:06:57.440 --> 2:07:00.600 and beyond man taking on like a producer role. Yeah, friends, 2:07:00.720 --> 2:07:03.440 it's harder than it looks tearing it up. Yeah, Johnny, 2:07:03.560 --> 2:07:07.680 thanks for drawing at sheet tag. Hey, you're very welcome. 2:07:08.600 --> 2:07:10.320 I should like to have one of those. I'll keep 2:07:10.360 --> 2:07:13.520 you all posted how it goes all right, So you 2:07:13.560 --> 2:07:14.000 guys soon