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Speaker 1: This is Me eater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

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Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear for

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Speaker 1: every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer, Yanny, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you noticed, but I have a um

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Speaker 1: giant bear rug over my last I brought this, so

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Speaker 1: this is the bear I got this spring. Yanni has

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Speaker 1: often criticized bear rugs for what reason and just general

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Speaker 1: bear amounts, bearmounts, and bear rugs. Yeah, because their mouths

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Speaker 1: are open and snarling and growling and making them look

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Speaker 1: vicious and mean. And I feel like when we see

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Speaker 1: bears and most likely bears of their lives, they're not

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Speaker 1: in those uh their faces, they're not in that position.

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Speaker 1: Their faces look more like this guy. Yeah, this guy,

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Speaker 1: this looks like a bear. Yeah, not growling. Um. So

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Speaker 1: Clay Nucom hosted the Bear Grease podcast, introduced me to

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Speaker 1: his tax the Nervous Buddy, Uh John Hayes Hayes tax

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Speaker 1: nermy studio which is a Libby Montana, and Clay brought

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Speaker 1: like Clay delivered my bear over to him and we

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Speaker 1: had a We were driving down the road with the

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Speaker 1: bear still in the back, just a green hide, and

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Speaker 1: I was saying to him, why are your bears always uh?

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Speaker 1: Why are there miles always growling? Um? And he was

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Speaker 1: saying something paraphrase a little bit. But the gist I

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Speaker 1: got from his people do like that. It Also, it's

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Speaker 1: easy to do it, easier than the clothes mouth somehow.

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Speaker 1: It's easier to make them look normal, And there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of forms that. There's a lot of forms to

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Speaker 1: do that, but there aren't forms readily available for rugs

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Speaker 1: to do it otherwise. So he he started to develop

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Speaker 1: how to do a close mouth bear by using a

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Speaker 1: form meant for a different application. So he was already

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Speaker 1: doing close mouth bears. There was enough demand for it

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Speaker 1: that he was working on it before you brought. No,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't. He says, like, I do them, but I

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Speaker 1: don't buy. He don't buy. I feel like, if I'm

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Speaker 1: screwing this up, John, you can cut Well, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have you call in. No, I just come into the

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Speaker 1: studio and you can explain it better. If I'm screwing

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Speaker 1: this up. They don't sell like what you need to

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Speaker 1: do this. He buys a form for a different purpose

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Speaker 1: and kind of manipulates it and changes it in order

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Speaker 1: to be able to do this on a rug. So

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Speaker 1: this bear, you can see his chin, mouth everything. He's

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Speaker 1: not growling. And I have three other I gave one

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Speaker 1: away too in my house right now where they're all growling.

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Speaker 1: And you're right, I've looked at a pile of bears,

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Speaker 1: most of them never seen one like that, or they're

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Speaker 1: eating some grass I like that. But when I get mine,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have his head even sinking more into the ruck,

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Speaker 1: a little lower profile. So I'm gonna have him cut

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Speaker 1: it like maybe like right at the top lip and

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Speaker 1: go straight back and even have it, uh just like

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Speaker 1: sink into the rug a little bit more. You follow me,

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Speaker 1: I'm following, Yeah, And I was gonna. I thought when

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Speaker 1: you were first showing it how it was kind of uh,

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Speaker 1: it's got a little gift to it, like there's not

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Speaker 1: quite a pillow in there. But I believe Clay did

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Speaker 1: a video with John Hayes, John Hayes name, Uh where

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Speaker 1: John makes like what he calls like a soft taxidermy kyo.

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Speaker 1: Did you see a little video about the coyote. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that thing looked cool because then it's like it

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Speaker 1: becomes more practical because it's like, oh, there's a coyote

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Speaker 1: on the couch. Oh, but you can also lay your

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Speaker 1: head on him and take a little nap, and it

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Speaker 1: be kind of cool to have that all through that

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Speaker 1: bear hide. Oh yeah, I would like that. Uh seth

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Speaker 1: if you had to rate how close did that come

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Speaker 1: to get in a wolf? If you okay, no, here,

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Speaker 1: here's the thing. Ten as you got it, one as

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Speaker 1: you never saw it. Oh man. So well, there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of factors that go into it. One would be

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Speaker 1: you're shooting at long distance. Okay, let's say extremely good. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I would say let's say moderate. I would say, uh,

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Speaker 1: you came, you came really close. I would put you

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Speaker 1: at a like an eight three. Oh really, yeah, because

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Speaker 1: if you were when that wolf was standing up there

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Speaker 1: still for all that time time, and you weren't set up,

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Speaker 1: just imagine if you were set up at that point

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Speaker 1: in time, you could have gotten a shot. So we

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Speaker 1: were sheep hunting in Alaska. Um, I was cheaping up

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Speaker 1: my brother Danny, who's a residence. So we're able to hunt,

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Speaker 1: Like in Alaska, there's this thing like second degree kindred

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Speaker 1: um that that you can hunt without a guide for

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Speaker 1: a species that normally require a guide if you have

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Speaker 1: a close relative that lives there and you're hunting with

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Speaker 1: that person. Um grizzlies, mountain goats, and sheep um. So

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Speaker 1: if they're white or tend towards whiteish, you have to

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Speaker 1: have a guide or second degree kindred. So I can

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Speaker 1: hunt with my brother. And we were hunting and we

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Speaker 1: went up to that we were going up to this

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Speaker 1: basin um that like you're going up this pass, you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't really guess it's up there. Canyon gets real narrowed

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Speaker 1: as a big glacier in it, But all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's giant basin and we slip up in there,

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Speaker 1: and it had snowed the night before. This is just

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Speaker 1: what I a week ago, two weeks ago, snow the

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Speaker 1: night before, and we get there, your sheep tracks running

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Speaker 1: everywhere in that new snow, and I'm like, god, we

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Speaker 1: blew them out, Like how that happened? Like you must

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Speaker 1: have spooked him? And then wet looking at all the tracks. Really,

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Speaker 1: there's wolf tracks running all over zigzagging around, and then

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Speaker 1: we find where all the sheep went and hid rams used.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's sitting on a rock pile in a way that

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Speaker 1: they normally wouldn't like arrange themselves. And it's because like

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Speaker 1: they clearly like I got into a big line and

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Speaker 1: went up on top of a cliff and were sat

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Speaker 1: up there, and I don't know how long we wandered,

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Speaker 1: around an hour. And also there's the wolves up on

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Speaker 1: the other ridge. I started wailing on a predator call.

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Speaker 1: And I can't really say this for certain or not,

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Speaker 1: but they like gave a look or didn't just happen

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Speaker 1: to look but didn't really care. No, they didn't care

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Speaker 1: at all. I feel like they gave a look. Oh,

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Speaker 1: they gave a look. Yeah they were. There was a

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Speaker 1: gray one and a black one and they were like

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Speaker 1: up on this ridge and then they'd like disappear from

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Speaker 1: the ridge and then all of a sudden, you'd like

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Speaker 1: see a head pop up and look, did they know

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Speaker 1: you guys were there? I don't think they didn't know either.

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Speaker 1: There yards away. I don't think they knew they were Oh.

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Speaker 1: It was also weird as these are sheep, I don't

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying the only hunt sheep. They were hunting sheep. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: their whole groove was they were hunting sheep. But the

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Speaker 1: weird thing is, all of a sudden, he kicked up

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Speaker 1: a u one you that ran from the They kicked

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Speaker 1: her out of the craggy stuff and she ran down

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Speaker 1: into an open bowl and they didn't chase her. M

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Speaker 1: I'm like, that seems like the the whole plan. That's

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Speaker 1: that's what you want to where they can get her

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Speaker 1: what they keep on doing? What we couldn't tell because

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Speaker 1: they dropped out of you. I would have thought we

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Speaker 1: were like get ready. Yeah, I was thinking that they're

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Speaker 1: just gonna come chase her, and they're gonna come, you know,

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Speaker 1: close to us. It didn't they didn't like something. But

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Speaker 1: I got all lined up. Um, in the unit we're in,

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Speaker 1: you don't even need there's no locket for non resident

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Speaker 1: only need a locking tag. I was gonna have. I

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Speaker 1: was gonna make breakfast sausage film, an episode of pardoned

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Speaker 1: my plate and have that big old wolf hide all

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Speaker 1: in one. That have been your first one, right, that

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Speaker 1: black that black one is pretty. I was literally I

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Speaker 1: told my brother, my brother has zero interesting, like he

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Speaker 1: lives in Alaska like zero interested grizzlies. He likes him,

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Speaker 1: but hunting him like not. It just doesn't even register

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Speaker 1: with them. Zero interesting wolves wolf hunting. I said, dude,

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Speaker 1: you can think of me like Cruella de Ville. Man,

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Speaker 1: I want that wolf hide so bad. He does not

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Speaker 1: get it, like, doesn't get it. Could you tell by

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Speaker 1: the tracks, like how they were hunting them or no?

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Speaker 1: Like do you think those they stumbled upon those sheep

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Speaker 1: or do you think they were following them for a

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Speaker 1: while or can you not? Here's my theory based on

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Speaker 1: absolutely nothing. Ahead Um, I understand from conversations with the

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Speaker 1: bush Pilot that there are always a bunch of us

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Speaker 1: in that basin always. I think that they have a

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Speaker 1: little sort of checklist, a little mental map, and they

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Speaker 1: come in there and whatever periodically and run around Raise Hill.

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Speaker 1: But this is just based on nothing. Yeah, well it

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Speaker 1: sounds solid, Lamb Now, I'm sure, I'm sure. Yeah. Those

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Speaker 1: wolves are definitely like ridge runners, like they're up there

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Speaker 1: looking for sheep. And I felt that when they didn't

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Speaker 1: chase the one, Danny postulated that they must have killed

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Speaker 1: the lamb. Oh, and we went up there and looked,

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Speaker 1: and you would have definitely known it was there because

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Speaker 1: the snow and we couldn't find what was going on.

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Speaker 1: But then weirdly we find not near not there a

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Speaker 1: ways away, found a dead lamb him a little ram lamb.

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Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Yea, a ram lamb hadn't been touched.

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Speaker 1: We're going down his cut and I'm like, that's a

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Speaker 1: weird place for a snow patch still be lingering because

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Speaker 1: there's no snow around to its death. Listen, man, I

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Speaker 1: gave it like an amateur knee crops. I gave it

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Speaker 1: an amateur knee cropsy and determined that there were no um,

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Speaker 1: no visible injuries. But I feel that it's rear left

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Speaker 1: leg rear right leg was busted at the femur based

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Speaker 1: on a very amateur that being my first ever doll

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Speaker 1: sheep lamb knee cropsy, I feel that that's that that

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Speaker 1: leg pretty wonky and comfortable, hadn't even had its eyes

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Speaker 1: pecked yet. Oh wow, so fresh in fact that we

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Speaker 1: kicked a you. We're going down out of there and

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Speaker 1: we're like kind of like out of sheep country and

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Speaker 1: here comes to you and we're like, what the hell

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Speaker 1: is she doing? Like why, like won you in that

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Speaker 1: weird place and we didn't see her with it, but

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Speaker 1: she left that spot within a like not a lot

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Speaker 1: of precision because you just couldn't see down that area

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Speaker 1: at that time. But anyways, one came out. It was

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Speaker 1: weird enough that we commented on it and then got

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Speaker 1: down in that zone and there was that dead lamb.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you guys spooked it and spoke no because

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Speaker 1: its hair was starting to slip fresh enough that you

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Speaker 1: guys considered considered well no, because I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: get you can't do that kind of stuff. I don't

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Speaker 1: think you can do that, Yeah, with a sheep. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure they'd probably frown on that. Yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you can be like, oh, I like I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of sheep meat because I found I think that

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Speaker 1: they would say, like, that's not your I don't know

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Speaker 1: how you'd take possession of that thing. I noticed when

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Speaker 1: if you're done, when you're done doing your like little

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Speaker 1: examination there, my clothes were colded in hair. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: saw your pants cheap hair all over him. I was like,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna be a tough one to explain if I

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Speaker 1: actually I actually we were waiting to get picked up

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Speaker 1: I actually went through and tried to remove it all

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Speaker 1: because it'd be like a trooper like, but so why

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Speaker 1: are you coding and cheap hair again? I'm like, listen, hey,

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Speaker 1: quick survey here in the in the room. If you

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Speaker 1: guys ever get a bear rug or bare amount done,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna go close mouth or open mouth, and Steve,

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Speaker 1: I'm going closed. I like that one. I don't. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't I know about your idea about like like that,

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Speaker 1: like seeing the mouth. I know a guy has multiple

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Speaker 1: open mouse and like all the all the teeth are missing,

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Speaker 1: the tongue is broken out just because they're boxing like

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Speaker 1: it's on the ground. They just boxally kick them with

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Speaker 1: their choe or whatever breaks teeth out. My kids jumping

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Speaker 1: around on those, I'm always afraid they're gonna bust the

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Speaker 1: ears off. That's why I hang them up on the

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Speaker 1: wall because they're like riding on it using the ears

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Speaker 1: as handles and stuff. It's like they can't put up

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Speaker 1: with that kind of stuff. I was gonna say, Steve,

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Speaker 1: have you ever seen the mounts that are They're they're

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Speaker 1: pretty much a rug and they're the rug shell, but

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Speaker 1: there's no felt and they're meant to hang on the

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Speaker 1: wall like some people call a trapper's mount. Is one

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Speaker 1: of those with a white tailed buck? Oh that's sick.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, that's what I would do. I like

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Speaker 1: those barbars. I don't. I would not do the felt

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Speaker 1: not a felt person. Okay, all right? Joined today by

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Speaker 1: Rick Hutton. Yeah, freshly married? Yeah like that? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's awesome. I like the married life. What what is that?

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Speaker 1: How if you had to rate his best man speech? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: one to ten. I think he did it. I'll give

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Speaker 1: him a solid nine. Yeah, he sure gave himself and nine. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I asked him, I said you did anybody laughs a

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Speaker 1: few times? Yeah. I even told him like because I didn't.

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Speaker 1: We went into the wedding. I was like, Steve or

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Speaker 1: I was like, Seth, I didn't even talk to you

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Speaker 1: really bad. I was like, but do you want to

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Speaker 1: do the best man's speech? You don't have to if

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Speaker 1: you don't want. He's like all the day of the wedding.

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Speaker 1: I think it was like two days, but two days.

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Speaker 1: Just have that he's getting up there, because that would

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Speaker 1: be that would dishearten him. Yeah, no, no, you want

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Speaker 1: to give best man speech. I even said like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't even I just assumed I never talked to you

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Speaker 1: about it though, But do you want to do this?

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Speaker 1: And he's like, oh yeah, I got something planned everything.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, yeah, man, he did good. He made

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Speaker 1: everyone laugh, was good, so I was happy with it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how are things over? F h F gear good? Really busy,

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Speaker 1: extremely busy. We got a lot of cool stuff in prototype,

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Speaker 1: a lot of growth happening. But it's August. It's so whatever,

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Speaker 1: busiest months of the year. What's the most exciting thing

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Speaker 1: you guys got coming up? Whatever? Now? Future think of

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Speaker 1: what I can talk about. They don't want to say anything. Yeah, listen, man,

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Speaker 1: that's that's an offline conversation. But I gotta adjust your

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Speaker 1: thinking on that. Okay, alright, it's fine. If you gave

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Speaker 1: me five minutes, I could. I feel like I would

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Speaker 1: In three minutes, I feel like I would make you

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Speaker 1: reconsider everything you think about that. So it's not so

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Speaker 1: much my thinking too. It's top down stuff being told

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Speaker 1: than two just making sure that thinking. Okay, well, let's

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Speaker 1: let's let's chat about that. Yeah, let's chat about that. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have some cool stuff coming out for fall more

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Speaker 1: along another accessory for our chest rig will have that

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Speaker 1: more diversify the use of that. It's more in that

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Speaker 1: foul kind of hunting realm uh. And then some backpack

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Speaker 1: accessory that you can use. So we have that come

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Speaker 1: out fall here probably a couple of weeks after this

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Speaker 1: podcast gets out there, and then twenty January of twenty

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Speaker 1: two will be a big year or a big time

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Speaker 1: for us. Will be launching a bunch of new products,

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Speaker 1: uh for the more for the rifle hunter. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it'll be real exciting. We're finalizing a lot of that now,

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Speaker 1: so excellent. Joined also by Brody. Hello, who's got a

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Speaker 1: tell everybody how many legs your bear has? Brodie three

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Speaker 1: and a half. No, but I'm gonna send it off

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Speaker 1: to that guy. Um. Yeah, I shot a bear last

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Speaker 1: fall that I still haven't sent the hide anywhere in Colorado.

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Speaker 1: It is a big, big bore, big head, lots of

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Speaker 1: fat um. But he had he was missing the lower half.

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Speaker 1: I gotta think about this lower half of his left

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Speaker 1: front leg and it basically at what would be the

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Speaker 1: elbow on a person, and it was just all healed

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Speaker 1: over recorded and fat. Yeah, Like I think I got

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Speaker 1: four gallons that rendered fat off him. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you had some of it. Um, He's like,

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Speaker 1: I actually like it better without this foot. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: like totally healed over. It looked like it had been

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Speaker 1: surgically removed. You know, there was just fur growing on

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Speaker 1: its skin there um for growing on it. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: when I took it into to get it checked in,

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Speaker 1: obviously it's all speculation, like the one the lady who

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Speaker 1: checked it in said maybe it was an illegal snare

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Speaker 1: when you know it was a cub or maybe a

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Speaker 1: boar had ripped its leg off or a hunter had

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Speaker 1: shot it years ago, who knows, But it didn't affect him.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's an older bear. They figured ten to

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Speaker 1: twelve years old. That dude, John Hayes, the tax names

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Speaker 1: I was talking to you, I was bragging up. I

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Speaker 1: was showing him a picture of a bear I had

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Speaker 1: that was seventeen that I got age at seventeen. He

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Speaker 1: had a bear come through there that had been aged

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Speaker 1: in its thirties. Yeah. I can't remember exactly what I remember.

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Speaker 1: I think the oldest documented is something like thirty nine.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't don't know if that's right, but I

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Speaker 1: think that might be right. Yeah, they can get a

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Speaker 1: lot older than than ten. Uh. Joined also by Seth

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Speaker 1: Morris Folks fresh off of Best Man speech, Phil Taylor

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Speaker 1: recently engaged. Yeah, we covered that, We covered down the

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Speaker 1: whole episode, but still there's context here for that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's good. It's still engaged, still engaged, still feeling it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're making plans, sweet man. And then uh, Janice, who

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Speaker 1: a couple of big milestones, drew his first big horn

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Speaker 1: tag and ran his first something. That's right, what a

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Speaker 1: lucky guy? Tell us now what you're ringing? The Bridge

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Speaker 1: or Ridge Run, which is like maybe the kind of

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Speaker 1: the most popular, um best known Bozeman local race. Did

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Speaker 1: you place in a way that you were satisfied with yourself?

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Speaker 1: I wasn't really good going for I didn't have a

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Speaker 1: goal around placement. I shouldn't say place. Did you perform

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Speaker 1: in a way that satisfied yourself very very much? So

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Speaker 1: you gotta describe layout, the specs of the It's roughly

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Speaker 1: twenty miles, depends. There's some different routes you can change

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Speaker 1: take it at certain points. It's kind of choose your

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Speaker 1: own adventure a little bit. But you can be between

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Speaker 1: nineteen and twenty miles. I think I probably ran. It

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Speaker 1: ran like a nineteen in a quarter mile version. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it starts at Fairy Lake the trailhead, and uh,

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Speaker 1: you climb up to the pass above Fairy Lakes. I

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Speaker 1: don't know the name of the passes, but then you

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Speaker 1: go up to Sackage away a peak and then basically

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Speaker 1: from there you just run on the actual spine of

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Speaker 1: the Bridger Mountains, uh, through Ross Pass, around Ross Peak,

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Speaker 1: and then all the way past Bridge or ski Resort,

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Speaker 1: Saddle Mountain, Bald Mountain, and then down to the m

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Speaker 1: trail head. Um, and uh, you gain about seventy feet

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Speaker 1: and I believe you lose about feet in those really

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Speaker 1: nineteen miles. Hold you climb that's with ups and down?

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah not at one time, No, no, I

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Speaker 1: got you, but like total gain? Yeah, how long it

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Speaker 1: took me five hours, seventeen minutes. I feel the same way.

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Speaker 1: What I'm worried about now is now I feel like,

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Speaker 1: now you just didn't smoke me when we're out hiking around.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I did a backpack trip right

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Speaker 1: on the heels of that, and I remember thinking myself, it, Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, just because you're in running shape doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you're in backpackage. I know. That's the things that I

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Speaker 1: always rely on is like, um, there's not it's its

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Speaker 1: own thing. Yeah, it's its own thing. A lot of

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Speaker 1: times people think that they're good at something else. They

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Speaker 1: didn't gonna tear it up. You always do this thing

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Speaker 1: where your first time of the year as a sheet

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Speaker 1: hunt too, like he come out of gateheart. Yeah, Seth

359
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Speaker 1: is all bragging up all he took it. He took

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Speaker 1: it a run in a mile and a half every

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Speaker 1: morning with his wife, girlfriend, whatever hell in between. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it helped a lot. I think I felt great during it. Sheep.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah it helps. Yeah. And so okay, so you're

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Speaker 1: you're pleased with your performance. I don't want to like people.

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Speaker 1: I was hoping for a like around like a five

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Speaker 1: and a half hour finished time. You know I did

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Speaker 1: it whatever thirteen minutes faster. And how educated was your hope? Well,

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Speaker 1: because I had done it on my own couple of

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Speaker 1: years prior, and I did it. I did it in

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Speaker 1: like six twenty but it was very casual. I was

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Speaker 1: I had to carry all my own water. I so

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Speaker 1: I carried like ten pounds of water when I did

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Speaker 1: it on my own. So I carried a gallon and

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Speaker 1: a half of water, um and now we had eight stations.

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Speaker 1: The whole event was really cool. Like, I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: anybody it's in. Like looking, I don't want you to

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Speaker 1: take away my spot next year because they about five

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Speaker 1: people five or six hundred people apply and they let

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Speaker 1: in three hundred. So it's a lottery to get in

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Speaker 1: because you can like the race can only support it's

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Speaker 1: a lottery draw. Yeah. Well, like if you've done it

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Speaker 1: ten years or more, I think if you're a top place,

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Speaker 1: top three place finisher in your age group, there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of things that will get you in every year. Umbuddy,

385
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Speaker 1: every buddy Rick Smith is running more than ten times,

386
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Speaker 1: so he's just automatically in at during that five hours.

387
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Speaker 1: How often could you huck a rock and hit another

388
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Speaker 1: person if you ban I probably only ran out of

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Speaker 1: five hours. I probably only ran really by myself for

390
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Speaker 1: maybe an hour out in ninety minutes, not much. There's

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Speaker 1: usually someone around, somebody around. Yeah, I think we went

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Speaker 1: through four or five eight stations, which was great. Like

393
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Speaker 1: a lot of people cheering, helping you on. They really

394
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Speaker 1: take care of you because there's a lot of exposure,

395
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Speaker 1: right when you get up there, the sun's out there,

396
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: the smoke um can be a factor and um. So

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Speaker 1: they really they check your BIB number twice at every

398
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Speaker 1: aid station, Like on the way in, there's two different

399
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Speaker 1: groups going okay, number two oh five just came in,

400
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Speaker 1: somebody else marks it, and then ten steps later that

401
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Speaker 1: you didn't peel off the ridge and have a heat somewhere. Yeah, exactly, yeah.

402
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Speaker 1: And then I actually got held up for five minutes,

403
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Speaker 1: so right there, I'm down to actually like five twelve.

404
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: But at the final eight station, the main like med

405
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Speaker 1: nurse doctor was like, hey, how you feeling. I'm like,

406
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Speaker 1: I'm feeling great, and she's kind of patting me down.

407
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Speaker 1: She's like, you're not sweating. I'm like, yeah, I'm had

408
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Speaker 1: a big sweater. I'm telling you, I've been like pounding

409
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Speaker 1: the water. I've drink at least six liters of water

410
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Speaker 1: since I started. I feel great. And she's like, nope,

411
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Speaker 1: come back here, and she turned me around and I

412
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Speaker 1: went she had She took me to like this ice

413
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Speaker 1: station and they basically crammed my vest in my shirt

414
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Speaker 1: full of ice and she said take these two other

415
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: pieces holding in your hands and you know, keep going,

416
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: but she would you have done if you just ran

417
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Speaker 1: off in order to keep your time. Oh it's funny

418
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: because like they're like, look, you're not getting top three,

419
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Speaker 1: so just like take care of yourself. That's kind of

420
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Speaker 1: the whole attitude of the whole thing is like nobody

421
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Speaker 1: cares how fast you run. Let's all make sure we

422
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Speaker 1: can do it, have a good time. If you run

423
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Speaker 1: across somebody that's struggling, ask me if they need help,

424
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: offer him some food, whatever. And I saw a lot

425
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: of that because I came out very conservative. I didn't

426
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 1: even make a running stride for probably the first five

427
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: or six miles. And even then when I would like

428
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: catch up to a group and we'd be on something flat,

429
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 1: everybody else would go into like a jogging kind of

430
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: a pace or look, and I just kind of do

431
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: like a fast walk and stretch my legs and kind

432
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: of keep up with that same pace. Uh. But like

433
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: two three hours into it, I started to overcome people

434
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 1: that went in earlier waves and they'd have like almost

435
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: like a zombie like look, you know a little bit

436
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 1: like whether I getting myself into the bridge or ridge

437
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: walk doesn't sound nearly as cool. No, no, no, listen.

438
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: I watch a lot of it. You know, I'm not

439
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: running up that super steep stuff. The fastest I think

440
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: this year was around like three and a half three

441
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: forty five. The course record is three hours. It stood

442
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: for quite some time, I think, uh, and then I

443
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: think I got eighth in in the mail nine age group.

444
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: I got sixty out of two fifty people, and the

445
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: last person to finish was close to ten hours this year.

446
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: Dart Or. Yeah, but I saw Kurt Smith like, it's

447
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: funny because you just don't know who's involved in it

448
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: in this community. At the very first I think it

449
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: was on top of Yeah, Kurt Smith from Shapna is

450
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: up there with like two gallons of water, just cheering

451
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: everybody on and filling everybody's water bottles up, and yeah,

452
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: that's cool. Hey, I want to see how good you are, younnie.

453
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: Um you could you know how you mentioned smoke? Okay,

454
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 1: you could segue off that to two very important things

455
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: happening in this room right now. I want you to

456
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: do a segue for each. Okay, speaking of smoke. When

457
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: I saw Brody post a picture of this lake trout

458
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: that he smoked, I was like, man, it looked a

459
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 1: little dark. This is this gonna turn into a comment sandwich? Um, well,

460
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: I haven't tried it. It's sitting right here in front

461
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: of us. I can smell it. It smells good. And

462
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: so I was gonna ask if maybe the dark color

463
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: was you know, he did on purpose. He might have

464
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: put a syrup glazeuph you did, Okay, let me hear

465
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: you seg what the other thing? It's been very smoky

466
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: here the last uh, I don't know, six eight weeks.

467
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: It's interesting though, I found this year how it seems

468
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: like like this morning, right at daylight seven am, it

469
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: was almost bluebird, and then by like nine like it's

470
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 1: it's rolling in. It seems like I've had I've seen

471
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: a lot of days where super smoky then it clears

472
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: out vice versa. Anyways, but we have a to educate

473
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 1: all of us. As our main guest today we have

474
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: Paul Hessburg, who's gonna tell us all about wildfires. Man,

475
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: he nailed it. That was good. Watch this segue. You

476
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: know who didn't nail it? Here it comes you overcooked

477
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 1: it a little bit. Man, I like it a little here.

478
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: That's good though, man, Oh I thought it was great,

479
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 1: very good, especially on a cracker, but you chipped a

480
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: little bit. Just I mean, I'm not gonna know what.

481
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna fie you put it back on for

482
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna infantilize you by building a component sandwich.

483
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give it to you straight. Yeah. I

484
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 1: get I get shipped from be honest about my bear grease.

485
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: I get shipped about my smoke lake shout from you.

486
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: I shouldn't even bring it in for you. Just know

487
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: I love it. It's extremely good. It just went past

488
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: its glossy phase. It lost. I lost. I like it

489
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: a little da Packing it around in a backpack. That

490
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: moist stuff is just you know, get smashed and ship.

491
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: Damn boy, you can have a whole mess on your hands,

492
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: no matter how clean you try to be out there

493
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: in the woods, and then you just got greasy hands

494
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: all day. Oh yeah you didn't. You gotta provide a

495
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: quick little bit of detail. We have a lot we

496
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: gotta do. But the drew a sheep take. Not really.

497
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: I've been kind of keeping it on the d L

498
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 1: because I just figured to go try to a lot

499
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: of attention. Um, you can probably snoop around and figure

500
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 1: out where I drew it. It's in Colorado, So should

501
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: I not brought it up? Just say a different, say

502
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: a lie about where it is. But by this point

503
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: in time when you're hearing this, hopefully I'm gonna have

504
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: a dead ram on my hands. But you know, there's

505
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: a high demand on sheep in general, and I've been

506
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: asked by multiple people if I wouldn't mind just like

507
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: not mentioning like where the actual you know, unit is,

508
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: just to like not create unneeded attention. Um, But yeah,

509
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: I'm going like I said you, I'll be hunting probably

510
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: when you're listening to this. But I'm going down in

511
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: two days to start scouting season open September seven, So

512
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that i'll have one tied up to the tree,

513
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: as they say, and be able to put some cross

514
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: airs on him morning of the seventh. All right, man,

515
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: uh quick update, So you're good there because you're not

516
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: looking to really overdo it. What do you mean? I

517
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: mean you're you're good on talking about it? Oh, I

518
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: don't mean I can keep talking about it. I've been

519
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: having a lot of fun. I've got I've been building

520
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: a gear list. I was gonna mention this. I just

521
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: decided I was making a gear list for my own purposes.

522
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: Very good, Brody, A little dry, it's a big it's

523
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 1: almost got like a hint of citrus nous in there

524
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: is that? Did you put like some kind of It's

525
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: just it was just a dry Brian brown, sugar and

526
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: salt and then the little maple syrup at the end.

527
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: Smoke lake trout the bag Brody gave me, says grease Ball. Yeah,

528
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: that's a derogatory lake trout term. Yeah, I don't know.

529
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: People just don't know what's going on. Oh my god,

530
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: it's good. I'm telling you. If you went to like

531
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: a whatever they call him, fish house, smoke house or whatever,

532
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: you would have to pay probably, what do you think,

533
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: at least twenty bucks, if not thirty bucks a pound

534
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 1: for something like that. Yeah, that's good, way better than

535
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: smoked salmon. Anyways. I so I was making a gear list.

536
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't forget anything. This is the one hunt I

537
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: really want to be extra dialed in on. Ah and uh,

538
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: look at this, you're gonna be impressed. You probably don't

539
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: even know what Google sheet is. What's your looking attridge

540
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: of choice? I'm going six five rpm? Good choice. Yeah.

541
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at Yi's a little deal here. He's

542
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,239
Speaker 1: got a miscellaneous category which covers things such as uh,

543
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: dragon polls, his bear as, his bear defense system down

544
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: through by. It's weird the binos is in miscellaneous, not

545
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: in optics, well, because the optics sort of package fell

546
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: in under the zone of in my backpack optics, not

547
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: the worn or carried optics, and that's why I fell

548
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 1: into he's even got pundages. Okay, so he's got a

549
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: fel on Ammo, so all the things are going to shooting. Yeah,

550
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: in the poundages, and I've got dash worn so what

551
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: you're bringing, what you're wearing, correct, He's got his food

552
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: right all the way down to electro light tablets. He's

553
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: got his gear at truck in case of worsening weather.

554
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: How many days are you prepared to be in there

555
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: at a time? Oh, I can't think I could easily do.

556
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what the limit would probably like. How

557
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: like when you go in, where do you Well, I'm

558
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: gonna go scout for just like three or four days,

559
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 1: so I'll pack food for that, and then when we

560
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: go back in, um, I'll probably pack for five or

561
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: six something like that? Is it? Tough to get in there. Yeah,

562
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: depending on where are you park and where we kind

563
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: of want to start in in what what drainage? Uh

564
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 1: like where I saw the sheep when I went into scout,

565
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: I was almost nine miles from the truck. But pretty

566
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: easy approach, Pretty just like straightforward flat trail system. More

567
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: sot us filling in now since slow to load. Oh,

568
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: it's way more. Okay, it's just been slow to fill in. Okay, system.

569
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: He's got a pack category, a water category, but how

570
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: to deal with water, and there is an optics category.

571
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: It's just it's been populating slowly. A shelter in sleep category,

572
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: a cooking category, a medikit category, emergency kit category. Are

573
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: you going light on the shelter? That miscellaneous ut scouting?

574
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna run and then uh, when I go

575
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: in with the photographer for the actual hunt, we're gonna

576
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: split the Stone Glaciers skyscraper. So that's like a little

577
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: over four pounds, So will each be it, you know,

578
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: a couple of pounds for Yeah, but I'm happy I

579
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: got my kid down to roughly. Uh, if I'm going

580
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: in solo, thirty five pounds no food or water. So

581
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 1: if I go in five days. That's ten pounds of food.

582
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: That's up to forty five in the add You know,

583
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 1: however much water you're gonna carry half a gallon before pounds.

584
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 1: What's uh, what's a boned out sheep way in the

585
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,399
Speaker 1: cape and the head man. I was actually just talking

586
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: to Carrasco about that, and he feels that you can

587
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: get a whole boned out sheep if you are diligent

588
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,280
Speaker 1: about trimming um into one of the stone glacier load cells.

589
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 1: So I'm actually gonna maybe splip my program and just

590
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 1: carry one of those and not carrying any game bags.

591
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: Maybe one extra in case there's like overflow, you know um,

592
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: or maybe a place a way to wrap up the

593
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,439
Speaker 1: cape in the head. But he said about sixty six

594
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: pounds boned out the head and cape. You know, I

595
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: didn't ask him that I should have a good use.

596
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: Capes are valuable. Very The fund's calendar left up old

597
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: deer stands calendar. There was granted, it was supposed to

598
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 1: be a book. We haven't ruled that out. Listen at

599
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: that sold out and so that it went from coffee

600
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: table book to calendar. Because I had to prove the concept.

601
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,439
Speaker 1: I know kind of concept people just like being upset about. Listen,

602
00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: you can't tell people you're making a fine art coffee

603
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: table book and then give him a calendar. But you can.

604
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: But I'm at the general public that got upset. We

605
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: spent months, general public, we have spent months talking about

606
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 1: a fine art coffee table book. Well, Steve, you seem upset,

607
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: but you were proven right that this is a redemption story. Dude. Listen. Yeah,

608
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: this is like the do you know that when uh,

609
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: It's a Wonderful Life? Of course, yeah, do you know

610
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: what tanked commercially? It tanked critically. The company that the

611
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: company that produced that movie went out of business based

612
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: on the financial loss of It's a Wonderful Life and

613
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: what happened in the end fill classic. Watch it every year,

614
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: every American family. Every American family watches it every year.

615
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: Years from now, every deer hunter in America. I'll have

616
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: that book. This is a story like that. We did

617
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: the calendar and we had a what I uh, Savannah

618
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: called it a modest print run or some word like modesty.

619
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 1: I called it a robust print run. I think it

620
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: was a good number to go with Initially, twenty four

621
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: hours gone but we reordered a sheph load. More naysayers

622
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: have been silence. Yes, and everyone who's pissed the first

623
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: day came out and it sold out. You will get

624
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 1: your chance to get one. I feel a robust print run.

625
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Sold out in twenty four hours, out in a few hours,

626
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: and now we ordered four x. Yeah that print run.

627
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: I think, can you put your name out like, notify

628
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: me when available as they got prey of something like

629
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: that going on. I think so new episode of Media

630
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: to the TV show hitting Netflix September twenty nine, some

631
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: market calendars, new season, not just one? What I say

632
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: episode new season? Can we give him any hints as

633
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: to what Rick and Seth are in it? Rick and Seth?

634
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: That's true? Uh, we we recomment it. Our buddy else

635
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: is in it? Who's that? Luke Holmes? Oh, Luke Holmes

636
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: is in it? The dogs in it? The dogs in it? Minga.

637
00:37:53,960 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 1: Can you play that quick film? Let's do it? Uh?

638
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: We talked about we recorded so Seth and you'll you'll

639
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: meet Rick and in uh Seth again and there is

640
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 1: that your first time on the act on the show,

641
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: the Netflix show. Yes, Yeah, I never had a cameo.

642
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: Y'all needs to do cameos all time. No cameo, you

643
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 1: hast not done anything. I did realize though, that our

644
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: beaver hunting or beaver trapping episode hit mainstream television because

645
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: I've been getting a lot of notifications about that. Oh yeah, yeah,

646
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: outdoor channel. I didn't know what was happening. That's cool. Uh.

647
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: The Chip and the poof was the previous episode episode.

648
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 1: If you want to revisit the Chip and the Poof,

649
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 1: Uh about our Flintlock hunt. So when you watch the

650
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: show on September twenty nine, you can skip ahead of

651
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: the Flintlock one and you'll meet uh, you'll meet Rick

652
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: and Seth. Yep, I think about that Rick. That was

653
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: back when you weren't even mare. Yeah, it wasn't married.

654
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 1: That was before I was engaged. Is that when you

655
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: taught dirt myth about a hang fire? If you go

656
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: on Instagram on the one that was so sometime around

657
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: last Christmas, If you go on Instagram so at Stephen Ronellan,

658
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: you go watch like the World's Greatest hang fire video,

659
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:24,719
Speaker 1: dirts like run you scoundrels, trigger, like Forever goes by

660
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: it all. He was he was like lower away and

661
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: it was like a fuse burning straight out of Looney Tunes.

662
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: It was crazy. Yeah, it's dangerous. I'm writing an article

663
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: for the website that the nuts and bolts of it

664
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: is gonna be the gear list, so you can check

665
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: it out and see what we're using. And um, I

666
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 1: think if that gear list can definitely be applied for

667
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: an early season dear Archery elk hunt as well. It's

668
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: good but inspired by this, but used for many other press.

669
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: I look forward on the meat eater dot com. Uh,

670
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: the whole thing about when I screwed up that word

671
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 1: mackerel fructation when it was supposed to be mackerel fructification. Well,

672
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: some guys sent in this. He looked up Google search

673
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: trends for macero fructification and found that it had not

674
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: been googled in a single time in five years. Then

675
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: when we talked about it in July two thousand twenty

676
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: one in the episode Cat Scratch Fever, it got searched

677
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: a hundred times. People. Well, I think that's a really

678
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: I think that graph you're looking at is a relative scale,

679
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 1: so it's not literally a hundred times, but I mean

680
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 1: I think it's showing you, like the relative difference in

681
00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 1: the so it's probably a lot more than a hundred,

682
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: but also probably was googled at least once or twice

683
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: in the last five years. It got um, yeah, quite

684
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: a spike. But we did a T shirt run, a

685
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: Mackerel fructification T shirt run, but they're all gone. That

686
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: was a that was a modest print run. That was

687
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: that that itself was a modest print collector's items. Now

688
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: seth breakdown the the I call this a civil rights issue,

689
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: the civil rights issue of Sunday hunting in Pennsylvania. Give

690
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: us the give us the whole you know, the whole deal. Yeah. So, Um,

691
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: for as long as I know you weren't able to

692
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: hunt on Sundays in Pennsylvania. We talked about this in

693
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: the episode, so check it out. But um, last year

694
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: was the first year they allowed three Sundays of hunting. UM,

695
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,479
Speaker 1: which was the last Sunday of archery season, the first

696
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: Sunday of it was the first first Sunday for the

697
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: rifle season, and then one of the Sundays during bear season. Um.

698
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: But right now, there's a bill send it, Bill six

699
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 1: o seven that was introduced that would pass Sunday hunting

700
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: authority fully from the legislator of the Pennsylvania Game Commission,

701
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: which currently has the authority to only allow three Sundays.

702
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: So it gives them the right to do it, yes,

703
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: but you don't know if they will do it or

704
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: is that the assumption that's I mean the assumption. I

705
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 1: think the Game Commission is on board. And there's like

706
00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: there's like lots of studies that show how this will

707
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: help economically. It gives more opportunity to like, you know,

708
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: people that are out of staters that want to come

709
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: hunt Pennsylvania. But like, you only hunt one day during

710
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: the weekend. So just for the for the average person

711
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: knocking out, like a your school teacher, and you got

712
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: obligations Monday through any help, any like infinite number of occupations.

713
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: Butt's just say a school teacher, you got obligations Monday

714
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,080
Speaker 1: through Friday to keep you damn you until dark the

715
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: winner and then someone then the government's staying. Oh and

716
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: of the two days you can hunt, uh, you can

717
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,319
Speaker 1: only hunt one of them. Like if you don't want

718
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: to go hunting, and you want to go to your

719
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: local church, go to your local church. Yeah, just because

720
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: you doesn't no one's no one's like making you go

721
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: just because you're allowed to hunt on Sunday doesn't mean

722
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: you have to. I know years ago Seth and I

723
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 1: added this up. But if you bow hunted and then

724
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: rifle hunted in Pennsylvania and you took the opening day

725
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: years ago, which traditionally is the Monday after Thanksgiving, if

726
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: you took that as your holiday, but you didn't take

727
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 1: any other days off, um, and you didn't hunt the

728
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: flintlock season. This wasn't accounting that backup. So I wasn't

729
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: ready for this level of thinking about Okay, just the

730
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: average joe in Pennsylvania. If you yes, yes, So if

731
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: you bow hunted the entire season and then every all

732
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: of our rifle season, no flintlock hunting after Christmas, and

733
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 1: you just did sad day hunts and you took the

734
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: first day of rifle off, that was your only vacation day,

735
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: took you to you hunt nine days? I remember we

736
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: talked about that. Yeah, So I mean it's yes, every possible,

737
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: you know, besides, like I said, that season, but if

738
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: you didn't take any other vacation off besides the opening day,

739
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: we gave that because most people, most schools are off,

740
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: and how many days with that same person game. Now

741
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: being able to hunt Sundays, well probably double that easily. Yeah,

742
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 1: you're a hunter many so that's a livable number. It's

743
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: a big difference when you're you're not allowed to hunt

744
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 1: Sunday and like who's going to deer Who wants to

745
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: go to deer camp for a day? You know, like

746
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: you can get a whole weekend and at least step

747
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,399
Speaker 1: can I can I give your grandpa's perspective on it? Yeah,

748
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: I go for it. This is a great argument. We

749
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,719
Speaker 1: love to have. Yea God bless him. Oh yeah, great guy.

750
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: He hosted us. Yeah, listen, very gracious host put us up.

751
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:05,320
Speaker 1: Fat us who to this great company. His argument, his

752
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to do. His argument was he likes

753
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: it that way because he told me on Saturday, you

754
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: can get up to your hunting camp and quote, get

755
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 1: all your clothes ready to everything, and then hunt on

756
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: Sunday and no one's out in the woods. That was no, no, no,

757
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,800
Speaker 1: how did it go? Oh? How did it go? I

758
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: don't remember? He doesn't he doesn't like the Sunday hunting.

759
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: I know. He I'm sorry. That's I'm trying to give

760
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 1: it was I screwed it? Up and and also the

761
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 1: opener is now on Saturday rather than Monday. Oh, he

762
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: liked to go up on Sunday, get all of his

763
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: clothes ready hunt Monday. And that's how they've always done it,

764
00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: and by God, why would you change that. Now? Traditionally

765
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: we would the Friday after Thanksgiving, we would go to camp.

766
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: That's when everyone would meet there. Saturday we would do

767
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 1: whatever work on on camp, go grouse hunting or whatever. Sunday,

768
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 1: we get up, go to church at camp. Yeah, we

769
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 1: get up, go to church. The priest always had like

770
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 1: a blessing for all the hunters going out on Monday.

771
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,399
Speaker 1: We come back and start doing that. On Friday, we'd

772
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: come back to camp, have a big meal, and then

773
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 1: you know, go to bed because you're getting up early

774
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: Monday morning to hit the woods. Dude, now I'm back

775
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: to thinking that. I'm back to thinking that supports Sunday.

776
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: The band No, no, don't stop to that painted such

777
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: a nice Bucolic image that you can make more traditions.

778
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 1: It just screws everything up. But now you can hunt

779
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: on Saturday, but now you can't hunt on Sunday, and

780
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: then it's back to hunting on Monday. It's a weird Yeah, man,

781
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: Seth's just painted such a nice little man about brought

782
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: to you thinking of that coming to a close cut,

783
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: that conflicting. Yeah, you know what you might do, Phil,

784
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: because South was going to do a call to action,

785
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: but I think he does undid any progress he's gonna

786
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: make by painting. Now, are way better traditions to be

787
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: made in the future. If Sunday hunting, get up on Sunday,

788
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 1: shoot a big old bucket. That's my kind of tradition.

789
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: Give a call to action if you want to be

790
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: in control of your own life and hunt when you

791
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: want to hunt, and not when the government says or

792
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: no not because not like of course the commission sets

793
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: the season. If you want to hunt when the Game

794
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: Commission says, and not when the state legislature says. Do this. Yeah,

795
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: so there's there's a article on National Deer Association UM

796
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: Deer Association dot com slash action alert support Sunday hunting

797
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania with a whole listen. Yeah, just just do

798
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: like a tell how to do a Google search. Just yeah,

799
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: you could probably go to Deer Asociation dot com and

800
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 1: in the search thing type in Pennsylvania Sunday hunting and

801
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: it will come up there. You go, um, there's a

802
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 1: there's like a click here link. You can go there,

803
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: fill out some information and it it sends, um, it

804
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: sends this. You know, basically a thing saying that you

805
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: want this to pass? Now? Can residents of any state

806
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: do this and participate? Or only residents of Pennsylvania. I

807
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 1: did it, and I asked where you're from and stuff.

808
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: I put Montana, and I'm gonna cue it up right now,

809
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: let's all do it. Clay is redeemed after embarrassing like

810
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: almost I thought, embarrassing himself on this show. He found

811
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:49,799
Speaker 1: documentation of an l an eel and l of beargrease

812
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: just to refresh people's memories. Clay was telling me all

813
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: about how there was a unit of measurement, which is

814
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: the little it would be a sack if you took

815
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: a doze skin a deer skin off, skinned to deer's

816
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: neck out. Now you've got a little tube of like right,

817
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: you got a little tube of hide. Stitch one end closed,

818
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 1: fill that with a liquid and then stitch it shut.

819
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:24,120
Speaker 1: That little sack was a unit of measurement. I challenged

820
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 1: him on this, and rather than doubling down. He did

821
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: a mild retreat. Would you agree, Phil you were there, Yeah,

822
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: that's a that's a perfect way of framiant. I'd say

823
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: he didn't double down. No, he did a mild retreat.

824
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,279
Speaker 1: He was still sticking to his guns a little bit.

825
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,560
Speaker 1: He was pretty sure. He kept He said, I've read

826
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: an article about it. I quoted it. I must have

827
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: read it some. But he wasn't like, Um, you calling

828
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:53,960
Speaker 1: me a liar and want to fight. That's not really placed.

829
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: Plus use remote, you know, yeah, you talk a lot

830
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:03,879
Speaker 1: of ship remote. So he found it. Uh, it's from

831
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: he's got he's a picture of the image, a photo

832
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: of the book. It's all about Girl Stocker, Clay's buddy.

833
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: Girl Stocker goes on and on. Guy ends up saying us.

834
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: The black bear was a valuable commodity to early settlers

835
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: of Arkansas. The price of bear skins at Arkansas Post

836
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: in eighteen o six ranged from one dollar to two

837
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: dollars each, and that's sourced. Bear oil sold for one

838
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 1: dollar per gallon in eighteen thirty four. In the early eighties,

839
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: an el of bear grease, formed from the hide from

840
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: the head and neck of a deer was a standard

841
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: medium of exchange. A man's status as a provider was

842
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: judged by the number of elves of bear grease that

843
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: stood by the fireplace. Bear meats sold for ten bucks

844
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: per one pounds. That's good stuff of that. Glennwme coming through,

845
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: coming through. Uh. This guy wrote in they have us

846
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: at his at his high school. He doesn't say what

847
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:28,080
Speaker 1: high school went to. They had a tradition where are

848
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 1: you um did a prank. It was like a senior prank.

849
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,760
Speaker 1: And for some reason, I like, the idea involves skunk

850
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:43,359
Speaker 1: essence skunk oil. But so they wanted to sneak into

851
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: their high school and and lace some stuff with skunk oill.

852
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 1: Totally understandable. But they chose hay bales. That's what puzzles me.

853
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: Outside of the school. No, no, you gotta read that

854
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: eighteen times and you realize that it's inside at the school. Oh,

855
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 1: they soaked some hay bales. They put skunk oil on

856
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: hay Bales and put him inside the school. The prank

857
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:20,000
Speaker 1: went awry, though, the next morning they discovered that school

858
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: had been canceled. It was so bad the police came

859
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,399
Speaker 1: for him. The concentration of skunk oil was so high

860
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: that it's so completely through the bales and into the carpet,

861
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: causing thousands of dollars worth of damage, which he had

862
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: to be him and his bodies had to pay for.

863
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: Think of that, and they were arrested. I had I

864
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,200
Speaker 1: had an anti establishment renegade buddy named Emmett Lombard in

865
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: high school. Give his full name, Mammy. What if he's like,

866
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, on the up and up? Now? Oh he is.

867
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: I think the Statute of limitations is out on this one.

868
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: But he poured uh fox leure fox here and on.

869
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: You know, our our school was an older building, so

870
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 1: it had those old radiators, and he cleared out the

871
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: school with that. People were throwing up the stuff. Really

872
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 1: was he fox trappers that way? Not at all. I

873
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: don't even know where he got his hands on the stuff.

874
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 1: But it was a good you know, he had a

875
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: good plan. Uh this is here's anything. The little clarification

876
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 1: We've talked about fifty freaking times about how Mark Twain

877
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: so the writer Mark Twain, Huckleberry Finn Tom Sawyer. I

878
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: really liked this clarification. Jumping frog Calveri's county. His birth

879
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: name was Samuel Clemens. Of course, and he assumed the

880
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: pen name Mark Twain. And we have talked about what

881
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: what Mark Twain meant um. On the riverboats in the

882
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: Mississippi River, there's a feller whose job is a stand

883
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: up front with a marked rope like knots tied in

884
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: the rope or something or the anchor on the end,

885
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 1: and you flick that rope out and then check out

886
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: deep the waters and the thing is marked in six

887
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: ft increments fathoms, So one fathom increments Mark Twain means

888
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:23,879
Speaker 1: second mark two fathoms safe passage. So Twain had That's

889
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,320
Speaker 1: the understanding of why Twain took the name Mark Twain.

890
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: But this guy gets into this book tells the book

891
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: a biography about John McKay, a contemporary of Samuel Clemens

892
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: whose past intersected with his at the Calm stock load

893
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: and Virginia City, Nevadam. The guy says here in the book,

894
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,879
Speaker 1: the guy says this, well, sam clemens use of Mark

895
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: Twain as a pen name did have roots in his

896
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:55,720
Speaker 1: time on the Mississippi. His intervening use of the phrase

897
00:54:55,880 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: in Virginia City to order his whiskey is an even

898
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: better story to share Over a few drinks he cools.

899
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: In the book, Clemens claimed he'd appropriated his by then

900
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: famous gnome to plume from a state Mississippi riverboat captain. However,

901
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: according to more convincing Virginia City legend, Clemens acquired the

902
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: nickname before appeared in print, derived from his habit of

903
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: striding into the Old Corner saloon and calling out to

904
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: the bar keep to Mark Twain. What he meant was

905
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:38,040
Speaker 1: he was ordered two whiskeys, and bartenders would keep track

906
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: of what you drank on a chalkboard next year name

907
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 1: and Mark Twain to marks mark him down for two whiskeys.

908
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: Think of that. I don't know that's cool. I don't know.

909
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: Why do you like it? Johnnie? Um? I don't know,

910
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: it's just next ovel. I like it because especially because

911
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: we were so sure about the other version of the story,

912
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, and then and I think it also, um

913
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:13,920
Speaker 1: it uh makes them just more of a human, you know,

914
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 1: kind of takes him off of a pedestal. It's just

915
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,320
Speaker 1: a dude that uh, you know, it's calling out for

916
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: drinks of whiskey so often that they started developing. I

917
00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:25,919
Speaker 1: wish Spencer new Heart is here right now, because i'd

918
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 1: tell him I could jole him into doing a little

919
00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: fact checker MythBuster on on all this um guy wrote

920
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: an anti fishing sprinklers on docks are real. I was saying,

921
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:44,160
Speaker 1: so people are writing in about people putting sprinklers on

922
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: docks to keep everybody away, keep fisherman away. And someone

923
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:49,880
Speaker 1: was like, no, no, no, no, it's not to keep

924
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: fisherman away. It's keep ducks and geese from shotting on

925
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 1: your dock. They put a sprinkler out and then anytime

926
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: something comes near it, the sprinkler shoots out water and

927
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,640
Speaker 1: it spooks off ducks and geese so they don't shat

928
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: on their This guy's like, this guy wrote in and says, listen,

929
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 1: not true. In Florida. There are many docks I fished

930
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 1: that are definitely watered, not for ducks or geese. These

931
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 1: sprinklers are intentionally aimed into the surrounding water too detour

932
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: boats from fishing too close to their dock. It is

933
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 1: very common. And he goes on to say, my favorite

934
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: thing here this is probably He says, there's a lady

935
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: in the Tampa Bay area named Joyce who was damn

936
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: remember how like like a couple of months ago, and

937
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: all of some became a thing like to be like

938
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:44,720
Speaker 1: a Karen. Now you can be like a says. There's

939
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: a lady in the Tampa Bay area named Joyce who

940
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: was caught on camera given anglers a hard time for

941
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 1: fishing her dock. So these guys made a Facebook event

942
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 1: with a public invitation called fish Joyce Stock. I hope

943
00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: everyone show everybody all the area fisherman can show up

944
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: at all fish Joyce's dock at the same time. But

945
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,000
Speaker 1: what what kind of like what kind of angler is

946
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: going to be scared off by a sprinkler? Yeah? Half

947
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: tiger fish and you're wearing right, Come on listen, man. Yeah,

948
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 1: they're a little annoying picture that I had a home.

949
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: I see those sprinklers pictures. I have a hose on

950
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: your for somehow, I have a hose on your boat

951
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 1: and you're fishing away and all of a sudden, like periodically,

952
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 1: I hose you down. You're telling me that your man, Okay,

953
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: we'll do that. I gotta figure out how to do it.

954
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 1: I gotta figure out how to get me a little pump.

955
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 1: But if I now, if I was down there and

956
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: I saw a sprinkler on a dock. I'd be like,

957
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,320
Speaker 1: that's a good spot. No one's fishing spot fish Joyce's doc.

958
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: I love it. I just gotta cast, Okay, Yeah, like this,

959
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: I'm on fish ors dock on the Facebook. And look

960
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: at that old boy trying to keep people off of

961
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: his Uh this has already been going for is he outsprings.

962
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: He's standing on his dock with a hose in one

963
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 1: hand and some kind of a stick pull on the

964
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,959
Speaker 1: other hand, banging his dock. He's trying to scare fish away. Yeah. Yeah,

965
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 1: and then the guys that are angling are laughing so

966
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: hard they can't even make a cast. Yeah, he's out

967
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: banging a broomstick on his dock to spook fish out

968
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: from under his dock. If you go on YouTube, there's

969
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 1: like ten million videos of people like doing the same ship.

970
00:59:38,240 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: I just I don't understand, Like, what, why, why, what's

971
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,720
Speaker 1: the problem? I don't know. He's that that old timer

972
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: right there is an interesting situation. Look now he's just

973
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:51,360
Speaker 1: started his engines on his boat that are next next

974
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: to the dock and just has him sitting there, you know,

975
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: above idle speed. It's probably not good for whatever. Where

976
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 1: the boats sitting just reving. The just turning up ship

977
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,480
Speaker 1: and marinas and docks aren't used to. He's making a

978
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 1: weird calculation. This dude is like he's saying himself, I

979
01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: could be doing whatever it was I'd normally be doing, Okay,

980
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: mowing my lawn, watching too, playing golf whatever. You you're

981
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: the old guy in Florida. Okay, um, and do that

982
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,600
Speaker 1: knowing that someone might be fishing. It's just needling out

983
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 1: of my awareness. Or I could be down on my

984
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: dock banging on my dock with a broomstick. Hmm. And

985
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: he's probably like, I don't want people fishing my dock

986
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 1: because it's gonna damage it or something. And there he

987
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: is smacking his dock with a broomstick. Holy cow, I

988
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 1: want to go fishing, and I think people just like

989
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: to be king of the mountain. Yeah, white tail deer.

990
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: There's another thing I want to get any man, But

991
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:54,000
Speaker 1: it's like, very complicated. Let me give it to you

992
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 1: real quick. It's so complicated. I was actually emailing with

993
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:02,040
Speaker 1: someone at National Shooting Sports Foundation today to get clarification.

994
01:01:02,080 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: That's very complicated. So the Center for Biological Diversity and

995
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 1: the Natural Resources Defense Counsel, which UH two organizations, which

996
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 1: are they are not outspoken lee anti hunting. Yeah, they

997
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 1: have a proven track record of well, every time there's

998
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,280
Speaker 1: an issue, they're always on the anti hunting side of it.

999
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 1: Coincidentally or not. They're petitioning we should get someone from

1000
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: those organizations. I would let you know what that's what

1001
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:39,520
Speaker 1: Kris needs to do. But Krin's not here right now.

1002
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: She needs to get someone from one of those organs

1003
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,440
Speaker 1: to come and be like, no, no, no, no, we're

1004
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 1: not in that hunting and and explain it. I'd love

1005
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: to hear it. Uh. They're petitioning the Department of the

1006
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife Service to quote

1007
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,320
Speaker 1: to band trade in wild mammals and birds, and for

1008
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 1: regulations instituting a comprehensive chain of custody system for all

1009
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: plants and wildlife imported into or exported from the United States.

1010
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: What they're saying is this, this is one of those

1011
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: weird This is one of those like this is a

1012
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 1: weird COVID thing, like a COVID related thing that might

1013
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 1: not immediately seem like a COVID related thing. So you

1014
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: have two groups, Center for Biological Diversity and Natural Resources

1015
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 1: Defense Council. They're coming and saying you shouldn't be able

1016
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 1: to bring wildlife parts into and out of the country

1017
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: without meeting certain criteria, and they're calling for and immediate

1018
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,880
Speaker 1: ban while we sort out the system. So they're saying, like,

1019
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:52,120
Speaker 1: stop now until we can put in place a satisfactory

1020
01:02:52,160 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: system to trace any movement of wildlife parts. So the

1021
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 1: stop now part would mean you don't come into the country,

1022
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: you go to like Clay Nukeomb right now is up

1023
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: in Manitoba hunting bears. Clay does not bring any part

1024
01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: of that bear, no hide, no meat, nothing crosses that border.

1025
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: They don't point out in here that they're proposing that

1026
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: I'll get to the COVID part of this in a minute.

1027
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,280
Speaker 1: They don't point out explicitly in here that they're proposing

1028
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: interstate bands as well. But some different legal experts have

1029
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:37,680
Speaker 1: looked at their use of the Lacy Act. The Lacy

1030
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 1: Act is used in the US. Would be that I'm

1031
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: trying to quickly explain Lacey Act. The Lacey Act gives

1032
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:47,600
Speaker 1: a lot of teeth to wildlife regulations because let's say

1033
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: you had a state with very lax wildlife regulations and

1034
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: you broke a wildlife law in that state. So let's

1035
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: say you go into a state and you poach it here,

1036
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: and then you drive your poach deer from Ohio to Indiana,

1037
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: Ohio Illinois, you drive your poach here. Um, you have

1038
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: just violated the Lacey Act. So now you've committed a

1039
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:14,920
Speaker 1: federal crime and that allows it gives like an enhanced

1040
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: ability for people to go after interstate poachers. The Lacy

1041
01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: Act does. And they're calling upon their justifying this band

1042
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: in terms of Lazy Act. And so some people are

1043
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: pointing out that the way this is worded and the

1044
01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:33,240
Speaker 1: enforcement strategy would de facto mean that it would make

1045
01:04:33,560 --> 01:04:39,760
Speaker 1: interstate movement of wild animals wildlife parts would ban that

1046
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:42,880
Speaker 1: most immediately A look, and you think it has any

1047
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: kind of it has repercussions for anyone that hunts Canada,

1048
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 1: hunts in Africa, being able to bring stuff back with

1049
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: you without going through whatever kind of thing that might

1050
01:04:52,960 --> 01:04:57,760
Speaker 1: presumably be onerous. Now what they're doing is they're saying, oh,

1051
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 1: hey man, we should do this because of COVID, which

1052
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: I feel is a little opportunistic. It's like, does they're

1053
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: sort of selling the idea based on that you're gonna reduce.

1054
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: They're saying that, hey, we all know, or we don't

1055
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: all know. We all thought a while ago that COVID

1056
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: absolutely came from bats. Now it's kind of like a

1057
01:05:25,120 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 1: toss up between the lab and bats, but absolutely came

1058
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,480
Speaker 1: from bats. Um, we'll slow down or stop the movement

1059
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 1: of diseases by stopping the movement of wildlife parts. But

1060
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: it seems opportunistic to me. It's like they're going like,

1061
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: how can we leverage COVID into um, how can we

1062
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: leverage the pandemic and public awareness around the pandemic into

1063
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,440
Speaker 1: getting a thing we want, which is that you can't

1064
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: move wildlife parts. Yeah? Well, I mean the same kind

1065
01:05:57,160 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: of people that are gonna latch onto moving wildlife parts,

1066
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 1: the same kind of people that are going to latch

1067
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:08,840
Speaker 1: onto you know the COVID reasons, right, No overreach is

1068
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 1: too much over I mean it does it seem like

1069
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: the end goal is interstate trafficking and not international. I

1070
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: saw a clarification about that. I don't want to read

1071
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: the whole email exchange, but I saw a clarification about

1072
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,120
Speaker 1: that today and there was a a learned I received

1073
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: a learned reply about why that UM, why it's likely that,

1074
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: as pursued would have impact on interstate which would impact

1075
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who goes on and out of state

1076
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: hunt at that point watch this transition. Speaking of COVID, hey,

1077
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: I think we should just do a quick shout out though.

1078
01:06:54,080 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: If you want to keep before you go to your transition,

1079
01:06:57,000 --> 01:06:58,640
Speaker 1: think about it some more. But if you want to

1080
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 1: keep an eyeball on that, um you can probably keep

1081
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: up with that at ww dot n s s F

1082
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: dot org, which is the National Stream Sports Foundation, as

1083
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:18,400
Speaker 1: well as um our buddies over at the Sportsman's Alliance.

1084
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 1: Thanks so again, This isn't like, this isn't a law

1085
01:07:23,000 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 1: that's been passed. This is a petition. It's a request, right,

1086
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: It's an official request on behalf of two organizations which

1087
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: we need to get people from one of those organizations

1088
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: or the other on to explain their mission. Maybe I

1089
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: got it all wrong. I don't know. I'd love to

1090
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 1: hear more. Speaking of COVID, ready for this transition. White

1091
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 1: tailed deer are showing up with COVID and staggering numbers.

1092
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: It seems not to mess with them, but they're getting it.

1093
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,360
Speaker 1: Thirty three of white tailed deer tested in Illinois. Michigan,

1094
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: New York, and and and Pennsylvania. Let me start over,

1095
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 1: because this is so kind of surprising. Thirty three of

1096
01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: deer tested in Illinois, Michigan, New York, and Pennsylvania were

1097
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 1: positive for antibodies, meaning they had been exposed at some point,

1098
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:23,639
Speaker 1: but doesn't necessarily indicate they had active infections between January

1099
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 1: and March, so narrow window of time they tested Foe

1100
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 1: deer Michigan, sixty seven of one thirteen samples. Sixtent of

1101
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: the tested deer had COVID antibodies. This has not been

1102
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,599
Speaker 1: peer reviewed. Peer review means you do, like a little thing,

1103
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: you do a little research, um, and you sent it

1104
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: out to a scientist in your field, and they kind

1105
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,559
Speaker 1: of go through and check your work and they'll they'll

1106
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,360
Speaker 1: poke holes in it, right, And a lot of things

1107
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: don't make it through a peer like someone might look

1108
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, yeah, but had you thought of this?

1109
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, and they're like, oh, ship, we didn't think

1110
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: of that. And then it doesn't. It doesn't, the idea

1111
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,720
Speaker 1: doesn't advance. This has not been peer reviewed. Even though

1112
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 1: it hasn't, it seems completely plausible, right, Like not to me,

1113
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't, I'd have to be. I'd have to know

1114
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: so much more about like when you test, are their

1115
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:27,519
Speaker 1: false flags? Like I don't know enough about it? What

1116
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 1: a common what a dear's version of a common cold?

1117
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 1: Trigger the I don't know. But wasn't there instances like

1118
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: where minx wild minks were infected with and and all

1119
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 1: kinds of zoos have had animals. That's a good point

1120
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,960
Speaker 1: by you know a lot of zoo critters. You're about

1121
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: that lady that got banished from that zoo for having

1122
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,760
Speaker 1: an affair with that chimpanzee. I wish I could make

1123
01:09:51,800 --> 01:09:57,840
Speaker 1: that whistle noise. I gotta transitions that they didn't have

1124
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:04,320
Speaker 1: COVID speaking of being a wreck um. They did say

1125
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,479
Speaker 1: I read something a little bit. There was more than

1126
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:08,360
Speaker 1: what we have here in our notes. It did say

1127
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 1: that this this, these blood tests have been going on

1128
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 1: for like a decade, and so they were able to

1129
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: look because saying, oh, well, maybe they've always carried these

1130
01:10:19,479 --> 01:10:21,920
Speaker 1: stars viruses and there's you know, we all know that

1131
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: there's like different versions of COVID all the time. Right, Well,

1132
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: they looked back like ten years in history and they're like, no,

1133
01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: it didn't there was there. Those markers were not there

1134
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 1: back then. See, YO knows a lot more about you

1135
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: should lead the discussion. That's all I know about this.

1136
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: Well that's a pretty important damn point. Interesting though, Yeah,

1137
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: that's the question I was gonna askar up. So obviously

1138
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:52,880
Speaker 1: questions arise our white tails spreading the virus among themselves

1139
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: and or getting it from close contact with humans. How

1140
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: might this effect spread between and among animals and humans?

1141
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:06,679
Speaker 1: Are do you're not showing symptoms by acting as hosts

1142
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 1: for novel mutations to it then pass back to humans.

1143
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 1: Sure it'd be cool if we get a sound of

1144
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: someone doing one of those astonished whistles and then just

1145
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:22,120
Speaker 1: insert it. I can't really now picture what it's actually

1146
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:27,640
Speaker 1: supposed to sound like. I'm sure Phil confined like an

1147
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 1: astonished whistle. Yeah, we can do that. Do you want

1148
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: me to get a live soundboard in here? I have

1149
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 1: that Yanni one when I first like this just two

1150
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 1: years ago. Alright, wasn't here, Yeah, yeah, Yanni wasn't here,

1151
01:11:37,880 --> 01:11:39,880
Speaker 1: And Phil took a bunch of Yanni saying a bunch

1152
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,360
Speaker 1: of different things, and you can just hit whatever you

1153
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,880
Speaker 1: wanted ya just say, like, like is that right? Just

1154
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 1: have to say whatever you wanted to. And then we

1155
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: could also make them look dumb because we could. We

1156
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: could play it saying something real obvious, but then have

1157
01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: Yanni be like, I don't understand people like that. Yanni, man,

1158
01:11:58,040 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: he doesn't get anything. Um, here's the interesting story out

1159
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:07,080
Speaker 1: of Florida. This is another one. It's hard to explain,

1160
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:13,840
Speaker 1: so there had long been. Let me try to think

1161
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: of a different way to tiptoe into this one. Depending

1162
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: where you live here in the good old United States,

1163
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 1: and and for you listeners elsewhere, you'll have your own

1164
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,519
Speaker 1: version of this. Your state may or may not have

1165
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 1: a law about how far away from a occupied dwelling

1166
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:36,839
Speaker 1: from a building you can discharge your gun. Meaning in Michigan,

1167
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:38,600
Speaker 1: for instance, let's say you had a Let's say a

1168
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 1: guy had a house and he built this house like

1169
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: right dead nuts on the edge of the National forest.

1170
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:50,040
Speaker 1: You gotta be what is it something like that in Michigan,

1171
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: I can't remember. You can't go stand like, let's say,

1172
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,800
Speaker 1: his house. Theoretically it is like around the line. You

1173
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 1: can't go stand like outside his bedroom window and be like,

1174
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: hey bro, I'm on nash of forest man, bam bouch

1175
01:13:04,400 --> 01:13:07,640
Speaker 1: start shooting because you got even if you're even if

1176
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 1: you're okay to be on the ground, you still have

1177
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: to keep distance from that safety the state I'm sitting

1178
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 1: in now, as well as you're sitting here now. They

1179
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 1: don't have it. We used to flow a river for

1180
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:26,080
Speaker 1: ducks and it felt so weird. I called fishing game.

1181
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: Just say, like, man, there's something that just doesn't seem right,

1182
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 1: even though we've been doing it. And he said, we

1183
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 1: don't have a law like that. I said, so, what

1184
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 1: would happen? He goes, what would happen is you hit

1185
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: the guy's house and as a negligent discharge or something.

1186
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 1: But the simple fact of you firing that in and

1187
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,519
Speaker 1: of itself, out of you endangering someone, like, just the

1188
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:50,360
Speaker 1: simple fact of you firing in close proximity. We don't

1189
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 1: have a rule about that. I would I would have

1190
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 1: assumed there was. I just assumed there was. But that's

1191
01:13:57,280 --> 01:14:00,680
Speaker 1: why I called it felt naughty. Yeah, I got a

1192
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:02,680
Speaker 1: deer spot like that. I saw a new game war

1193
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:04,599
Speaker 1: and recently I was talking about something that felt naughty

1194
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 1: but wasn't. And he was saying, like he basically said, well,

1195
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: why don't you listen to yourself? Why does that not

1196
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: feel to you. I'm like, just feels like it should

1197
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be able to do that because you should

1198
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:26,880
Speaker 1: listen to those instincts. So Florida, there's been some tension

1199
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 1: between water like there's some tension and some waterfowl hunters

1200
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 1: have even wanted to clarify because there's like a debate

1201
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,280
Speaker 1: and people get an arguments about where you're hunting. So

1202
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,439
Speaker 1: some hunters wanted to you know, some people in the

1203
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:42,639
Speaker 1: non hunting community and some people in the hunting community

1204
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: have sought to clarify what is the restricted area and

1205
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: they're creating this restricted hunting area, and it there's a

1206
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,120
Speaker 1: movement to create this rule. The rule provides a clear

1207
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:59,519
Speaker 1: path for a municipality to establish on their choice to

1208
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:02,240
Speaker 1: a stay, ablish a restricted hunting area with certain housing

1209
01:15:02,360 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 1: density requirements and capability by municipal law enforcement to enforce

1210
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:15,519
Speaker 1: distant rules outlined in a restricted hunting area. So they

1211
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 1: have three ft from an occupied dwelling. You cannot hunt

1212
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: within three feet of an occupied dwelling. This guy wrote

1213
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 1: in what he's worried about is rampant development in Florida.

1214
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 1: So right now it might seem like a good idea, Okay,

1215
01:15:36,120 --> 01:15:38,080
Speaker 1: I see all the houses. I know where the houses are.

1216
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,680
Speaker 1: We can't shoot within three hundred feet. But as he's

1217
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,559
Speaker 1: looking along the lake shore with all the development building

1218
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:48,639
Speaker 1: going on, you look ten twenty years into the future,

1219
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 1: and he's saying, I see an area where even with

1220
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 1: a duck hunter support. If a duck hunter supported this

1221
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 1: rule in order to have it, they clearly defined so

1222
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,120
Speaker 1: everybody knows where they're standing legally, He's worried about as

1223
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:06,439
Speaker 1: our you know, urban rural interfaces. Um, are they going

1224
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:09,080
Speaker 1: to negotiate themselves right out of all their hunting spots,

1225
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 1: because every time a house gets built, you've created a

1226
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 1: circle with a one hundred yard radius that can't be hunted.

1227
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:29,559
Speaker 1: I think about that. It's a refuge a thousand people

1228
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:35,160
Speaker 1: per day moving to Florida. Cheez, And he points out

1229
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,920
Speaker 1: ducks are found along the shoreline. You go to a

1230
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 1: lake where the ducks hang out, I mean, you know,

1231
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 1: sometimes not, but I mean typically, yeah, you go to

1232
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:46,639
Speaker 1: a lake throughound the shoreline. They also have this thing

1233
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 1: where it matters who owns the house. So the law

1234
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:58,960
Speaker 1: provides private property rights on public land to those who

1235
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,040
Speaker 1: live inside and r h A. If you live inside

1236
01:17:02,080 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: in r h a, you can duck hunt inside the

1237
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:08,360
Speaker 1: three hundred foot boundary or give others permission to do

1238
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: so within three hundred feet of your dwelling, so you

1239
01:17:14,320 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: can hunt it. It effectively privatizes the lake shore. That's interesting.

1240
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: Can you hunt it if your house is less than

1241
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 1: three feet from the next Oh that's a good that's

1242
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 1: a good point. Yeah, because where did those spaces? That

1243
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: comes back to the density thing, Like if you live

1244
01:17:34,840 --> 01:17:37,040
Speaker 1: on a lake without a lot of houses and suddenly,

1245
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 1: but it's interest man, a couple of dudes go by

1246
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:43,920
Speaker 1: a place, a couple of places, a couple of shacks.

1247
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 1: Also you're like, nah, huh, it's our spot now, bro. Yeah.

1248
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 1: And what if a dude builds a little floating house

1249
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,479
Speaker 1: out in front of your place where you're going to hunt,

1250
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, bro, you can't hunt within a

1251
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,240
Speaker 1: hundred yards in my little floating house. Here the list

1252
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 1: of the road in letcher Um. Him and his fellow

1253
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 1: anti rual colleagues are trying to work with the FWS

1254
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: what's that stand for Fish and Wildish Wildlife Service Commission

1255
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,760
Speaker 1: Florida to go to negotiate a rule to be a

1256
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:18,400
Speaker 1: little more palatable. He thinks it's an egregious oversight by

1257
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 1: the Commission some of the stuff they're not looking at

1258
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: Steve today here, you're correctly. They're like, the municipality can

1259
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: just make up there like that? Can they have authority

1260
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 1: over that? The municipality can declare a restricted hunting area.

1261
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:34,240
Speaker 1: So I think that would get super messy with depending

1262
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:36,680
Speaker 1: if you have a hunter friendly municipality or not, or

1263
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,240
Speaker 1: just duck hunters going. That's ridiculous. A bunch of New

1264
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:48,320
Speaker 1: Jersey is there something as a Florida cat lady, A

1265
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: bunch of Joyce is all the Joyces get together and

1266
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:53,040
Speaker 1: they're like, I got an idea, Let's make us an

1267
01:18:53,240 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 1: r H A community. Yeah, that's a good one, man flatcher,

1268
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:06,960
Speaker 1: good for keeping out. Good on you for keeping an

1269
01:19:07,000 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: eye out. Very good one. All right, I already moved

1270
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:21,600
Speaker 1: on to like this, we're gonna move on to a

1271
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:29,599
Speaker 1: subject that's just to just just really troubles me, keeps

1272
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,679
Speaker 1: me up at night. And that is just how much

1273
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:38,120
Speaker 1: of our landscape we are burning every year in big

1274
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 1: hot fires, not the nice ones, the hot soil burners,

1275
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: and holy cow, man like fire is in the fire.

1276
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 1: Like was the news. It got bumped by Cobble, it

1277
01:19:57,880 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 1: got bumped by the hurrican Kane. But other than that,

1278
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:07,680
Speaker 1: man fire has had has maintained a real position in

1279
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 1: the news over multiple years of like news cycles. You

1280
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 1: get the feeling something weird is going on, something news

1281
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 1: going on. Then you uh try to make it be

1282
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,200
Speaker 1: that it's not because that's scary. So then you'll sit

1283
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 1: around and thinking, oh, yeah, but what about the Pestigo

1284
01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 1: fire of eight seventy one that killed people? Um, maybe

1285
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 1: it's not so bad. I don't know. We're gonna we're

1286
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: gonna get into that, and we're gonna get into it

1287
01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: with our guest, Paul Hesberg. So, Paul Hesberg is a

1288
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 1: research landscape ecologist with the U. S d A's Forest Service.

1289
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:49,680
Speaker 1: He'll tell us what that means, but he's affiliated as

1290
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,960
Speaker 1: a research professor with a handful of universities, including University

1291
01:20:54,000 --> 01:21:00,120
Speaker 1: of Washington, Oregon State University, University of British columb You

1292
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:02,599
Speaker 1: all right, so we're just gonna ask him direct, Paul,

1293
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:06,560
Speaker 1: can you lay out for folks what it means to

1294
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: be a rate sorry, what it means to be a

1295
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:15,360
Speaker 1: research landscape ecologist and how does that bring you into

1296
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 1: the fire world. That's a great question. Thanks for having

1297
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,600
Speaker 1: me on the show, Steve Um. So, a landscape ecologist

1298
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 1: studies how patterns of different conditions drive processes. So a

1299
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: wildfire would be a process, an insect outbreak would be

1300
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 1: a process. And so over the last several decades, I've

1301
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,439
Speaker 1: been looking at and reconstructing historical landscapes throughout the West

1302
01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: and asking the question what species of trees were growing,

1303
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:48,640
Speaker 1: how dense were they, what were the sort of patchworks

1304
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: or mosaics, what do they look like? And then how

1305
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 1: did fire behave as a consequence of those conditions. And

1306
01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 1: then I reconstructed current landscapes for the same places, and

1307
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: I compared them, and what I found out was that

1308
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:04,519
Speaker 1: forests of the present day don't look or function anything

1309
01:22:04,640 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: like forests of even a hundred years ago. We're on

1310
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:12,519
Speaker 1: a landscape that doesn't resemble what European colonists found when

1311
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,639
Speaker 1: they got here to the west. Let's uh, let's start

1312
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:19,759
Speaker 1: with with the kind of question I laid out earlier,

1313
01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 1: Um that forest fires seemed that just you know, I

1314
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,720
Speaker 1: don't like logs. Sort of the number of mentions of

1315
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:32,240
Speaker 1: forest fires that occur in the news in conversations over

1316
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 1: the course of my life. But like, man, it really

1317
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:42,960
Speaker 1: feels like they have just dominated public thinking, particularly in

1318
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:46,080
Speaker 1: the West, in a way that they did not once

1319
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 1: upon a time. Yet, Um, you know, you imagine these

1320
01:22:50,160 --> 01:22:53,040
Speaker 1: There's that book called was Rick was the Big Burn?

1321
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,839
Speaker 1: The Big Burn? About the ten like the catastrophic fires

1322
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: of earlier. I mentioned the largest forest fire I believe

1323
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 1: still today the largest forest fire in US history seventy one,

1324
01:23:06,760 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: the Pestigo Fire, which was burned across Wisconsin Michigan's Upper Peninsula,

1325
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:15,160
Speaker 1: killed over a thousand people. So you look at these

1326
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:21,240
Speaker 1: these monster fires historically and then you try to soothe

1327
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:24,600
Speaker 1: yourself into thinking like, well, it can't be It's not

1328
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:29,800
Speaker 1: that bad. So maybe nothing new is happening. Um, what's

1329
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: your take on that. Are we in a new era

1330
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: of forest fires or is it business as usual? We

1331
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,680
Speaker 1: just hear about them more. We're in a new era,

1332
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:46,200
Speaker 1: Steve Um. The Pestigo fire killed about people, and the

1333
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,640
Speaker 1: firefighting infrastructure wasn't around. There wasn't really well developed, and

1334
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:54,960
Speaker 1: so it caught them all by surprise. Wendy fire season, Uh,

1335
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,360
Speaker 1: an awful lot of logging had gone through in the

1336
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: Lake States. There's a lot of slash hanging out. So

1337
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 1: the fire grew over three million acres as a consequence

1338
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:08,439
Speaker 1: of lack of a big fire suppression infrastructure, caught by

1339
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 1: a real significant wind and weather event, a lot of

1340
01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 1: fuel hanging around, and it was incredibly frightening and damaging.

1341
01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 1: But it didn't get the US thinking about doing fire

1342
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:25,400
Speaker 1: suppression wholesale and really scaling up to develop just an

1343
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:29,160
Speaker 1: amazing resource to attack fire. Um. And if you read

1344
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: the history, there's a lot of other really big fires

1345
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 1: over a million acres that occurred long before the era

1346
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: of fire suppression. We're in a new era and now

1347
01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 1: because the climate is getting warmer, it's getting hotter, drier,

1348
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 1: and there's a lot more windy days when it's hot

1349
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:48,920
Speaker 1: and dry. What are the It's interesting that you brought

1350
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 1: up and I've always called the Pestigo fire, but you

1351
01:24:51,120 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: just said Pestigo, So, uh, thanks for the correction, Ara.

1352
01:24:55,280 --> 01:24:57,600
Speaker 1: But if if it's interesting to bring up that that

1353
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:03,240
Speaker 1: might of um, that that fire, other later fires might

1354
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: have brought on the era of fire suppression. But can

1355
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:14,280
Speaker 1: you lay out what factors are at play right now? Um?

1356
01:25:14,479 --> 01:25:17,840
Speaker 1: Because you hear multiple culprits, right, You hear that we

1357
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:21,799
Speaker 1: have a history of fire suppression and then UM, forest

1358
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 1: management rights and wrongs, a changing climate. Um, is there

1359
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:29,559
Speaker 1: a long list or is it a pretty simple list.

1360
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: It's a pretty simple list, really. Um. It's taken a

1361
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: lot of work on a lot of people's part to

1362
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: get to the place we are right now. But we

1363
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:41,000
Speaker 1: know in the West, for example, that the Little Ice

1364
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:44,960
Speaker 1: Age only ended a short time ago, so it was

1365
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:48,800
Speaker 1: really mild and sort of equitable in the West, and

1366
01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 1: that that made the the climate not too hot, not

1367
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,960
Speaker 1: too dry, not too wet. It was sort of in

1368
01:25:57,080 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 1: the Goldilocks spot for a fairly long period of time,

1369
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:02,560
Speaker 1: and so there was a lot of forest growth that

1370
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 1: occurred during that period of time. Um. And what we

1371
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 1: see from the climate data is after about we see

1372
01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 1: a really different signature on the climate of western North America.

1373
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:17,200
Speaker 1: And it's all the way across the Western States on

1374
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,559
Speaker 1: into British Columbia and Alberta. It's a really big scale thing.

1375
01:26:21,720 --> 01:26:26,560
Speaker 1: In fact, in British Columbia and in the Arctic and Subarctic,

1376
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:29,640
Speaker 1: temperatures are rising at a much faster rate than they

1377
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,759
Speaker 1: are here in Washington State where I live, for example,

1378
01:26:33,320 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 1: two to three times the rate of warming and uh,

1379
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:39,200
Speaker 1: and so those systems are just changing abruptly right now,

1380
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: and so they're burning too. We're saying really extensive fires.

1381
01:26:43,880 --> 01:26:48,439
Speaker 1: And the climate unequivocally is driving this rising area burned. Um.

1382
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:53,840
Speaker 1: Everywhere we look, climate drives increasing area burned. It was

1383
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 1: that way thousands of years ago. It is this way

1384
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:02,400
Speaker 1: going forward. Can you lay out the fire situation for people? Like,

1385
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 1: I just know you know where we are. It's smokey,

1386
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 1: it's been smoky for eight weeks. Um, we hear a

1387
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:13,960
Speaker 1: lot about it, But like, can you give sort of

1388
01:27:14,040 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 1: like a more holistic snapshot of of what's happening at

1389
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:22,439
Speaker 1: the moment? Sure, happy to do it, So think of

1390
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,520
Speaker 1: I think that we're sort of I'm giving you a snapshot.

1391
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: And the numbers aren't done yet, right because an awful

1392
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:31,680
Speaker 1: lot of places have a much longer fire season. So

1393
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 1: the snapshot is basically, we've got something like forty three

1394
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:41,799
Speaker 1: thousand and counting fire starts in the continental US, about

1395
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:46,600
Speaker 1: plus or minus five million acres have already burned, and

1396
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,680
Speaker 1: we expect that number to continue rise on into the

1397
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:53,000
Speaker 1: fall and even early winter in some of the southern states,

1398
01:27:53,479 --> 01:27:57,160
Speaker 1: and globally, it appears that is one of the worst

1399
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 1: fire years on record. So places that normally get fired

1400
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:06,320
Speaker 1: like Australia and Africa and the Mediterranean countries that that

1401
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: are have that Mediterranean climate. Basically we're seeing those countries

1402
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:15,080
Speaker 1: really being hit hard as well. And what has been

1403
01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:18,640
Speaker 1: predicted for the last probably thirty five forty years is

1404
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:22,000
Speaker 1: actually occurring. The climates warning warming in the burned area

1405
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:24,120
Speaker 1: is on the rise, and what we can see from

1406
01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:27,599
Speaker 1: here is that the area burned since two thousand until

1407
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:31,560
Speaker 1: about today is going to double triple some estimates or

1408
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:36,719
Speaker 1: even quadruple by so so it's not a new normal.

1409
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:40,599
Speaker 1: It's actually not settled down. The best years are behind us.

1410
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,679
Speaker 1: That's what the research is telling us. We were talking

1411
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 1: a little bit before we uh had you on here

1412
01:28:47,120 --> 01:28:49,680
Speaker 1: ask the question you were asking Johnny about, at what

1413
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,640
Speaker 1: point is it do you run out? Yeah, it just

1414
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:56,720
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, back in the day, we know

1415
01:28:56,880 --> 01:28:59,320
Speaker 1: that there used to be like a recurring mosaic kind

1416
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:01,559
Speaker 1: of a fire pattern, right, and that seemed to keep

1417
01:29:01,720 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: the big fires from happening. And as much as it's

1418
01:29:04,080 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: been burning over the last ten years or however long

1419
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:10,680
Speaker 1: it's been since nineteen, it would seem as though at

1420
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: some point the fires would have to start coming back

1421
01:29:14,200 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: on top of the you know what they've already burned,

1422
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,160
Speaker 1: and thus it would start to limit like how big

1423
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:24,000
Speaker 1: they could get. So it's like a two part question,

1424
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,920
Speaker 1: like is that happening? And then in general, can you

1425
01:29:27,040 --> 01:29:29,840
Speaker 1: say what, like what percentage of I don't know if

1426
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 1: you want to do it nationally or just pick a

1427
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 1: state of like stuff that ken Burn has already burned

1428
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,720
Speaker 1: in the last two decades, so tens of millions of

1429
01:29:39,760 --> 01:29:42,920
Speaker 1: acres have burned throughout the West, and we're seeing burned

1430
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:46,720
Speaker 1: area rising in the Lake States and in the Northeast.

1431
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 1: There's a ton of prescribe burning in the South and

1432
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,040
Speaker 1: the South coastal Plain and that's having an incredibly positive

1433
01:29:54,080 --> 01:30:02,560
Speaker 1: effect on low burned area in places like the Carolinas, Georgia, Laurida, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana.

1434
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:05,080
Speaker 1: That those southern pine forests, they do a lot of

1435
01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 1: prescribe burning, and so they have a different story right

1436
01:30:07,880 --> 01:30:10,840
Speaker 1: now that's going on in the West. We we don't

1437
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:13,840
Speaker 1: have license to burn that many acres. Georgia, I think

1438
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,439
Speaker 1: in the last two or three years had one year

1439
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,920
Speaker 1: with a prescribed burned a million acres, which is a

1440
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,799
Speaker 1: really big deal. And what that does is it changes

1441
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 1: the dynamics. If you burn it under the right fuel

1442
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 1: and weather conditions, you get good fire behavior and you

1443
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: get good fire effects. We're not up to those kinds

1444
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,640
Speaker 1: of acres and we need to be burning that a

1445
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:36,160
Speaker 1: really central part of your question. Then it's a super

1446
01:30:36,280 --> 01:30:40,160
Speaker 1: clever question. You think you think severe fires are driven

1447
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 1: by woody fuels, and once you start burning up a

1448
01:30:43,280 --> 01:30:45,400
Speaker 1: lot of the woody fuels, you would expect that, hey,

1449
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:47,519
Speaker 1: it's going to tip back to a sort of a

1450
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:51,200
Speaker 1: more benign system. Right, we're finding out it's different than

1451
01:30:51,280 --> 01:30:54,680
Speaker 1: that under climate change. Let's say an area burns and

1452
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:56,920
Speaker 1: you get, you know, half a million acre fire. Let's

1453
01:30:56,920 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 1: say the Bootleg fire, right, You've been reading about that

1454
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:02,759
Speaker 1: in Oregon, and there's a lot of severe fire behavior

1455
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 1: in that area. What we're seeing is those areas then

1456
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:11,439
Speaker 1: get a lot of meadows and shrublands developing in and

1457
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,879
Speaker 1: that's the first thing that comes back after the removal

1458
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: of forest, right by a severe fire. What happens is

1459
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 1: you'll get recurring ignitions on the margins of some of

1460
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:24,800
Speaker 1: those and it will reburn again. And when it reburns.

1461
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 1: If you had surviving forest, or you had seedlings and

1462
01:31:28,320 --> 01:31:32,040
Speaker 1: saplings that started to seed in and regenerate a new forest,

1463
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: they get burnt out, and so you start converting big

1464
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:40,200
Speaker 1: areas of forest um into areas where it's very difficult

1465
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:44,240
Speaker 1: for forest to walk back again. And the question you

1466
01:31:44,280 --> 01:31:46,639
Speaker 1: asked before about that, Patrick, you know, I think about

1467
01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:49,280
Speaker 1: all the elk stands I've ever sat in before where

1468
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:52,280
Speaker 1: I look across and I see a really cool meadow,

1469
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:55,280
Speaker 1: and I'll see areas where the elker bedding first thing

1470
01:31:55,360 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 1: in the morning, and I'll look across the drainage and

1471
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,280
Speaker 1: it's open and I can see for two mile. Also

1472
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 1: heard about coming in in the late season while the

1473
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 1: largest dropped its foliage, and you see this mosaic, this

1474
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:09,680
Speaker 1: patchwork of conditions that provide sort of everything in a

1475
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,560
Speaker 1: fairly small neighborhood. Well that's not what's repeating under the

1476
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:17,040
Speaker 1: current fire regimes. We're getting a really different patchwork. It's

1477
01:32:17,160 --> 01:32:20,880
Speaker 1: really coarse. The burned areas are large because we're putting

1478
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 1: out all the small and medium sized fires. Because they

1479
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,040
Speaker 1: occur under more moderate fire weather, they're easier to hook,

1480
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:29,880
Speaker 1: they're easier to hold right and so the things that

1481
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 1: are burning the landscape are the fires that escape under

1482
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:38,160
Speaker 1: really difficult, hot, dry, windy conditions, and they escape initial attack,

1483
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:42,240
Speaker 1: They escape all valid attempts to try to keep it

1484
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 1: in a small paddock, you know, to keep the fire

1485
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 1: small and and resources. Firefighters have to fall back because

1486
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:53,680
Speaker 1: otherwise it's dangerous, they'll be high loss of life. Can

1487
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,920
Speaker 1: you can you explain, um, this is an our debate

1488
01:32:57,960 --> 01:33:01,800
Speaker 1: we're having or not debate. We're just the acusting this. Uh,

1489
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 1: how some fires, you know you'll hear layman such as myself,

1490
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, we'll talk about a fire, um burned too

1491
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,719
Speaker 1: hot right or what was the term you're using seth

1492
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 1: soil glazing right where it creates this this situation where

1493
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,400
Speaker 1: it's hard for the forest to recover, as opposed to

1494
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 1: certain kind of fires that maybe are not the not

1495
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,519
Speaker 1: the case, Like, what's the vocabulary for what I'm trying

1496
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,200
Speaker 1: to get at here about these fires that that that

1497
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:37,120
Speaker 1: that just strip it of organic strip the soil of

1498
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:39,920
Speaker 1: any kind of organic matter. It's very hard to come

1499
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:44,599
Speaker 1: back versus I don't know, a good fire, a happy fire. Yeah.

1500
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:50,000
Speaker 1: So in terms of the words, intensity means the energy

1501
01:33:50,120 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 1: that's released at the head and fire the flaming front

1502
01:33:53,200 --> 01:33:56,080
Speaker 1: of a fire, right, and that's sort of that's in

1503
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:59,799
Speaker 1: killer watts. It's a bunch of energy and the effects

1504
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 1: are the fire. We discussed them as severity, and it

1505
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: can be soil severity. How bad is to cook out

1506
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:08,680
Speaker 1: the duff and litter in the organics? Right, And then

1507
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:12,040
Speaker 1: you've got severity as it relates to what happened to

1508
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:14,920
Speaker 1: the forest that used to be there, how much got killed?

1509
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:18,559
Speaker 1: And we think about severity in both of those ways.

1510
01:34:18,720 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 1: Right now, when soil severity is low and we have

1511
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:27,320
Speaker 1: sort of intermediate uh, fire severity in terms of fire

1512
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,240
Speaker 1: effects on the forest, what you see is all sorts

1513
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:33,439
Speaker 1: of opportunities for forests to walk back. But when you

1514
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:38,080
Speaker 1: have soil severity that's really high and centuries millennia of

1515
01:34:38,240 --> 01:34:41,479
Speaker 1: duff and litter and organic accumulation gets cooked out to

1516
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, ten twelve inches, you're literally starting over, and

1517
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:49,440
Speaker 1: it can take hundreds of years for a forest to reobtain.

1518
01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 1: When fire soil severity is fine, it can burn down,

1519
01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:56,639
Speaker 1: you say it can. It can burn down twelve inches

1520
01:34:56,720 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 1: like some seed hiding out down there. It's just gone.

1521
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 1: So there's some seeds in the soil what we call

1522
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:08,640
Speaker 1: the soil seed reserve or the seed cash that have

1523
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:11,559
Speaker 1: got a lot of apps for being able to hang out,

1524
01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,240
Speaker 1: and they actually many of them are turned on by

1525
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:18,040
Speaker 1: by high heat. So when you're hunting in a logical

1526
01:35:18,160 --> 01:35:19,840
Speaker 1: area and you see a bunch of c and this,

1527
01:35:19,960 --> 01:35:24,320
Speaker 1: for example, hanging out seeds in the seed cache got

1528
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 1: turned on by the heating and there are that's the

1529
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:32,640
Speaker 1: treatment that allows them to germinate and become shrubs, um

1530
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:38,720
Speaker 1: others that that rely on perennial root systems. If the

1531
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 1: heat is too high, then an awful lot of the

1532
01:35:41,520 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 1: herbs and the grasses and stuff, it's a do over

1533
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: for them and they have to get seeded in from

1534
01:35:46,520 --> 01:35:50,080
Speaker 1: someplace else. So soil severy is a big deal, and

1535
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:53,960
Speaker 1: it's a super smart question because in this whole mix

1536
01:35:54,120 --> 01:35:58,479
Speaker 1: of how do patterns influence forest fires that we like

1537
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:02,760
Speaker 1: versus those that do damage to the habitat and resources,

1538
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:05,720
Speaker 1: all of this comes into the max how much duff

1539
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:08,960
Speaker 1: and litter is they're available to burn. If you have

1540
01:36:09,240 --> 01:36:11,639
Speaker 1: a really hot fire, a lot of times you'll see

1541
01:36:11,720 --> 01:36:17,200
Speaker 1: this smoldering combustion go on for weeks and that smoldering

1542
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: combustion is what if it's hot and dry, is what

1543
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:23,759
Speaker 1: will cook out the soil. So it's just constant heating

1544
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:26,639
Speaker 1: sitting on top of that soil, and you'll see these

1545
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,680
Speaker 1: red soils and ashed soils right when you're out there

1546
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 1: in the bush, and it's because high soil severity has

1547
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:35,519
Speaker 1: occurred and it's going to very tough for the forest

1548
01:36:35,600 --> 01:36:39,599
Speaker 1: to come back. I find that when people talk about

1549
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:43,600
Speaker 1: you know, oh, the problem is that we didn't do this,

1550
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:48,879
Speaker 1: or the problem is this sometimes kind of demonstrates someone's

1551
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:55,400
Speaker 1: particular worldview UM, meaning someone from a certain industry. You

1552
01:36:55,479 --> 01:36:57,280
Speaker 1: might point and be like, oh, it's because we're not

1553
01:36:57,400 --> 01:37:00,760
Speaker 1: doing forest management. It's because the you know, or it's

1554
01:37:00,760 --> 01:37:04,600
Speaker 1: because the radical environmental um element won't let us do

1555
01:37:04,960 --> 01:37:07,040
Speaker 1: what we need to do. Or someone might say, oh,

1556
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:11,040
Speaker 1: it's because you know climate change UM. And a lot

1557
01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 1: of times it's sort of like ties into sort of

1558
01:37:13,200 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 1: you know where your biases are. But talk about management

1559
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:24,200
Speaker 1: for a minute, meaning if we had the public will

1560
01:37:24,360 --> 01:37:28,720
Speaker 1: in the in the public will and the resources to

1561
01:37:29,120 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 1: address what we could address outside of trying to tackle

1562
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: global climate change UM. Not that we should leave it untackled,

1563
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:42,120
Speaker 1: but just that look like that's a bigger, probably decades

1564
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:46,640
Speaker 1: centuries long problem. Um, what in the immediate in the

1565
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 1: immediate term, if we had public will and resources, could

1566
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:56,320
Speaker 1: we actually be doing right now to get a grip

1567
01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:59,800
Speaker 1: on the problem? And who what stands in the way

1568
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 1: of us? Well, I got a lead was saying that

1569
01:38:04,160 --> 01:38:08,639
Speaker 1: the big ticket item is reducing greenhouse gas emissions. That's

1570
01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,439
Speaker 1: what's driving the bus on big area burned right now,

1571
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:15,560
Speaker 1: and so grabbing ahold of it and having the mindset

1572
01:38:15,640 --> 01:38:18,160
Speaker 1: that we're going to do something about those emissions is

1573
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:22,040
Speaker 1: super critical because it's going to take decades for that

1574
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:25,760
Speaker 1: change to pulse through the system and for CEO two

1575
01:38:25,800 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: in the atmosphere to come down. So it's yesterday we

1576
01:38:29,040 --> 01:38:31,880
Speaker 1: have to start that process. That's probing the bus. In

1577
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:35,799
Speaker 1: terms of in terms of what's going on with the forest,

1578
01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: we know that area burns driven by hot, dry climate, windy,

1579
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:42,840
Speaker 1: severe weather, that kind of thing. But we know that

1580
01:38:43,120 --> 01:38:45,680
Speaker 1: to fuel and forced density and that sort of thing

1581
01:38:46,040 --> 01:38:50,520
Speaker 1: is what creates the intense heating that causes soil severity

1582
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: and fire severity. And so going back to the things

1583
01:38:55,240 --> 01:38:58,360
Speaker 1: that I study, when I look back on the historical landscapes.

1584
01:38:58,439 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 1: What I see is on the ridge tops, on the

1585
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:05,720
Speaker 1: dry south aspects, the forests were really open. Sometimes you'd

1586
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,639
Speaker 1: call them just a sparse woodland, you know, open pines

1587
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,479
Speaker 1: on dry doug first sites, open woodland of doug fur,

1588
01:39:13,080 --> 01:39:17,479
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, open limber pine sites. And and

1589
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:20,519
Speaker 1: what's happened in during this period of fire exclusion, which

1590
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:24,679
Speaker 1: starts with the loss of indigenous burning hundred and fifty

1591
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:28,400
Speaker 1: hundred seventy years ago, trees started seating in, and they

1592
01:39:28,439 --> 01:39:31,120
Speaker 1: started getting bigger, and they kept seating in, especially the

1593
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 1: ones that are fire intolerant and shade loving. Okay, so

1594
01:39:36,400 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 1: doug furs, grand Furst, white first, those sorts of things

1595
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:42,800
Speaker 1: are are seeding in and so open becomes closed over

1596
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:46,519
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty years. And it's that patchwork of

1597
01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:50,479
Speaker 1: open and closed conditions that changed how fire flowed on

1598
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:54,360
Speaker 1: the landscape. When you had an open canopy condition, fires

1599
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:57,360
Speaker 1: would stay on the forest floor and they'd burn up

1600
01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:01,839
Speaker 1: the dead wood that accumulated, and free quent fires increase

1601
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:04,680
Speaker 1: the likelihood that the next fire would be low severity.

1602
01:40:04,920 --> 01:40:07,360
Speaker 1: So you had these frequent low severity systems in the

1603
01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:11,080
Speaker 1: dryer forest down in the valley bottoms around the north aspects,

1604
01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:14,559
Speaker 1: you would see conditions that would be more would be denser,

1605
01:40:14,640 --> 01:40:17,000
Speaker 1: and there'd be more layered. And that's where different kinds

1606
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:21,280
Speaker 1: of habitats were occurring, but they didn't dominate the entire landscape, right,

1607
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:25,080
Speaker 1: And so the way fire flowed on the landscape was

1608
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:28,320
Speaker 1: influenced by how much deadwood, how open or closed, and

1609
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,040
Speaker 1: how layered the canopy was. And so you'd see this

1610
01:40:31,200 --> 01:40:34,639
Speaker 1: mosaic being repeated, not in the same place, but you'd

1611
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 1: see it the shifting mosaic occurring and that's those were

1612
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:43,000
Speaker 1: feedbacks to reducing the severities of the next fires. Big

1613
01:40:43,120 --> 01:40:47,120
Speaker 1: fires are not noteworthy in the historical record. There are

1614
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:51,000
Speaker 1: many many big fires. That's what's going on inside of them.

1615
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:54,360
Speaker 1: Those those boundaries that's changed. He used to be a

1616
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: patchwork of of low severity, didn't burn high severity kind

1617
01:40:59,320 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: of in between, right, And so you get this very

1618
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:05,280
Speaker 1: blotchy pattern and that produced all the habitats for the

1619
01:41:05,479 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: critters that were interested in And that's what went out

1620
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,240
Speaker 1: of the system, right. And I think a lot of

1621
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:16,320
Speaker 1: it has to do with the a lot of factors

1622
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:20,720
Speaker 1: that sort of collaborate or come together to create a

1623
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:25,280
Speaker 1: condition of forests and forestry were not the original intent

1624
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,960
Speaker 1: of the U S forest Ors. It was protecting water

1625
01:41:28,280 --> 01:41:31,240
Speaker 1: and grazing that was the original intent of the Forest Service.

1626
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:35,120
Speaker 1: After World War Two, trees and logs became important, and

1627
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:38,040
Speaker 1: we started logging the big trees because they had the

1628
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:41,360
Speaker 1: most volume at the time and they were most merchantable.

1629
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:44,360
Speaker 1: And every time we'd pull out big sticks, trees would

1630
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 1: regenerate and release and make the forest denser. So you

1631
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 1: can see that evolution of several factors coming together, and

1632
01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:54,960
Speaker 1: by four we got the ten em rule. We're putting

1633
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:57,400
Speaker 1: fires out by ten am, and we're keeping less than

1634
01:41:57,439 --> 01:41:59,880
Speaker 1: ten acres, and so now you have fifty sixty years

1635
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 1: where the forest has a chance to get dense layered

1636
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 1: and be now prone to severe fire in a lot

1637
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:12,400
Speaker 1: more places. I got a quick question, um, Paul, is

1638
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:16,200
Speaker 1: is that something like that was open grown forests like

1639
01:42:16,320 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 1: you were talking about back in the day. Is that

1640
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:21,280
Speaker 1: something that with management today that like for Service is

1641
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:23,639
Speaker 1: trying to get back to or is that something that's

1642
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 1: just like never gonna happen again. That's a great question,

1643
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:30,400
Speaker 1: and it's a big ticket item, not just the Forest Service,

1644
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 1: but a lot of forest managers are literally trying to

1645
01:42:34,160 --> 01:42:36,960
Speaker 1: put those open ground conditions with the bigger trees on

1646
01:42:37,040 --> 01:42:40,960
Speaker 1: the landscape because big trees that bark fire tolerant you know, pine,

1647
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:44,080
Speaker 1: big duck for big western march, they can tolerate fire.

1648
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:49,160
Speaker 1: And so getting stuff you know, fifteen to thirty totes

1649
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:52,360
Speaker 1: back on the landscape and having those via the dominant

1650
01:42:52,479 --> 01:42:55,080
Speaker 1: veg cover is the bed hedge on climate change and

1651
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,879
Speaker 1: changing fire regimes. So they're doing it in many places

1652
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:02,160
Speaker 1: that they can uh where really it makes sense in

1653
01:43:02,240 --> 01:43:05,240
Speaker 1: the landscape right hot dry places, places that are gonna

1654
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:09,400
Speaker 1: need to stay open to stay in forest when you

1655
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 1: get too into where the next big fire is gonna hit.

1656
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:16,879
Speaker 1: Are you, guys, do you have like a sophisticated modeling

1657
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:23,040
Speaker 1: mechanism that allows you to in some way predict what's

1658
01:43:23,760 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 1: most likely to go? Or is it is there just

1659
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 1: too much sort of randomness around cause that prevents you

1660
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:35,920
Speaker 1: from really understanding, you know, what's next. If anybody, if

1661
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 1: any of us had that model, we'd be wealthy. People

1662
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:43,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't um the There's a lot of cool modeling going

1663
01:43:43,400 --> 01:43:46,960
Speaker 1: on right now that predicts if you have ignitions. So

1664
01:43:47,439 --> 01:43:50,440
Speaker 1: a lot of my modeling friends will nuke the landscape

1665
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,599
Speaker 1: with random ignitions. And the last the question what will

1666
01:43:54,720 --> 01:44:00,280
Speaker 1: um fire size and fire severity be under different weather conditions? Right,

1667
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 1: and so they can create sort of map services of

1668
01:44:03,600 --> 01:44:08,200
Speaker 1: what's likely. They call it a quantitative risk assessment. It's

1669
01:44:08,240 --> 01:44:11,200
Speaker 1: being done all over the United States right now with

1670
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:14,879
Speaker 1: some existing tools. The problem is they are random factors.

1671
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 1: There's a ton of human ignitions. Where are they going

1672
01:44:17,200 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 1: to occur? Nobody knows. So often conditions are ready to

1673
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:25,439
Speaker 1: burn across an enormous area, tens of millions of acres,

1674
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 1: but nobody knows where the human ignition is coming from.

1675
01:44:28,479 --> 01:44:31,200
Speaker 1: Nobody knows where you're going to get the dry lightning.

1676
01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:34,840
Speaker 1: We get these dry convective storms all the time, right,

1677
01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:37,320
Speaker 1: You've seen them out there on the landscape. Sometimes they're wet,

1678
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:40,479
Speaker 1: their thunderstorms with a lot of rain. Sometimes they're dry

1679
01:44:40,680 --> 01:44:43,320
Speaker 1: and they'll just bomb a mountain range and you know,

1680
01:44:43,520 --> 01:44:46,360
Speaker 1: put it on fire. So, um, there's a lot of

1681
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:49,960
Speaker 1: wild cards in the mix for these factors as they

1682
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:52,560
Speaker 1: have to come together, and in the randomness of the

1683
01:44:52,600 --> 01:44:57,280
Speaker 1: ignitions is a big part of it. Uh, do humans

1684
01:44:57,439 --> 01:45:01,720
Speaker 1: lead lightning for causes of major fires? And a lot

1685
01:45:01,760 --> 01:45:04,840
Speaker 1: of areas. They really do a lot of areas the

1686
01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:07,560
Speaker 1: fires are actually human caused. What are they doing? What

1687
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,560
Speaker 1: are what? What are they? What are we doing? Like

1688
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, flicking matches, throwing cigarettes out of the window,

1689
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,880
Speaker 1: Like what is the primary thing that folks are up to?

1690
01:45:18,400 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 1: So um, So we look at all the ignition data

1691
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:25,160
Speaker 1: across the western US right now, we have ignition data

1692
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:29,040
Speaker 1: sets over the last decades, and believe it or not,

1693
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: hunter campfires are a big deal. We see we see

1694
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:36,799
Speaker 1: sort of the ignition period of the normal fire season,

1695
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:39,599
Speaker 1: but when we get into the rett and we start

1696
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:45,000
Speaker 1: seeing people in the woods starting in late August September

1697
01:45:45,479 --> 01:45:50,080
Speaker 1: on into October, there's another peak from hunter fires that

1698
01:45:50,280 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 1: essentially are igniting continuing tonight the landscape. So hunters can

1699
01:45:57,200 --> 01:45:59,519
Speaker 1: contribute an awful lot by you know, making sure that

1700
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:02,680
Speaker 1: they they tamped their fire out. But we actually see

1701
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:05,080
Speaker 1: a pulse in the data most years. You know, that's

1702
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:07,720
Speaker 1: that's really interesting, man, because I kind of wrote them off.

1703
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:10,920
Speaker 1: But I had a guy know who's a firefighter and Wyoming,

1704
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:14,320
Speaker 1: and he swore up and down to me that they

1705
01:46:14,640 --> 01:46:18,840
Speaker 1: when archery season, when elk archery opens, they have a

1706
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:23,760
Speaker 1: busy few days of responding to fires. I was like,

1707
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:26,120
Speaker 1: that can't be true, man, he goes, I'm telling you, dude,

1708
01:46:26,479 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 1: every year it's a real thing, and it's it's bigger

1709
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:33,519
Speaker 1: than Wyoming, right, Um, and a lot of us when

1710
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:36,320
Speaker 1: it's pretty darn cold out there, we'll put together a

1711
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:40,240
Speaker 1: little warm and fire and and they, you know, critters

1712
01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:42,040
Speaker 1: come through the neighborhood and all of a sudden we're

1713
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,599
Speaker 1: shooting and flinging arrows. And sometimes that fire doesn't get

1714
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:49,080
Speaker 1: tamped down, so um and and they'll take a walk

1715
01:46:49,120 --> 01:46:52,200
Speaker 1: because the fuels are still drying. Right, I want to

1716
01:46:52,240 --> 01:46:54,599
Speaker 1: get back. I'm gonna let I'm gonna let these other

1717
01:46:54,640 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 1: guys hit some questions. But I want to circle back

1718
01:46:57,120 --> 01:47:00,680
Speaker 1: on part of Yanni's question that I was particularly trigued by.

1719
01:47:01,280 --> 01:47:03,439
Speaker 1: And you didn't get around to it. And maybe it's

1720
01:47:03,439 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 1: too hard to answer, but um, if you model, let

1721
01:47:08,120 --> 01:47:11,200
Speaker 1: let's take you can do your own state Washington, you

1722
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:14,560
Speaker 1: can do California whatever you want. If it's possible to

1723
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:18,200
Speaker 1: answer this, you take a map of what could burn,

1724
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,200
Speaker 1: or you know, like take a map of like highly likelihood,

1725
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 1: high likelihood landscapes and Washington that are prime for a fire. Um,

1726
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:32,599
Speaker 1: and what percentage of that have we like whittled away

1727
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 1: at over the last couple of decades, meaning well, in

1728
01:47:37,400 --> 01:47:41,840
Speaker 1: five years, well California or Washington have run out of

1729
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:49,400
Speaker 1: have like run out of what could burn because they burned? No, no,

1730
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:54,080
Speaker 1: I did answer the question, what is the model? The

1731
01:47:54,200 --> 01:47:57,280
Speaker 1: model that you're thinking about is actually not the right one.

1732
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:01,960
Speaker 1: As the climate warms and ignition continue to increase over time,

1733
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:05,920
Speaker 1: areas that already burned produce all sorts of flashy fuels.

1734
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:11,280
Speaker 1: They're available to burn every single year. So depending upon

1735
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:14,960
Speaker 1: the severity of the previous fire, you can continue to

1736
01:48:15,120 --> 01:48:18,719
Speaker 1: burn and reburn those areas, and more often you reburn

1737
01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 1: them in a short time span, the less likely that

1738
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:24,719
Speaker 1: they'll come back to forest if the fires are severe. Okay,

1739
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 1: that was that was the gas being smarter than the host.

1740
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:29,439
Speaker 1: I forgot about that? You did? You did? Uh? You

1741
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 1: did answer that? Um? Thank you? All right? What else

1742
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:37,600
Speaker 1: you guys got? I got one, Paul. So we know

1743
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 1: that like, low intensity fires are generally good for deer

1744
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:45,759
Speaker 1: and elk and all kinds of other you know, animals

1745
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:48,320
Speaker 1: and birds. When you when you get one of these

1746
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:55,080
Speaker 1: giant high intensity fires, how do animals like elk, Like,

1747
01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:58,040
Speaker 1: how does that affect how they use the landscape after

1748
01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:02,559
Speaker 1: one of these really high intensity giant fires, Like where

1749
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:04,880
Speaker 1: I heard of a couple of thousand elk may have

1750
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:10,280
Speaker 1: lived in one drainage and now that it's all burned out. Yeah,

1751
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:13,280
Speaker 1: well that happened to me and my favorite hunting spots

1752
01:49:13,320 --> 01:49:15,439
Speaker 1: in the Blue Mountains of Oregon. I think it's happening

1753
01:49:15,479 --> 01:49:18,439
Speaker 1: to a lot of hunters these days. Yeah so so,

1754
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:21,520
Speaker 1: But what I wanted to use as a specific example,

1755
01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:25,599
Speaker 1: um where I was there before the fire and then

1756
01:49:25,640 --> 01:49:28,840
Speaker 1: after the fire, and and had the hunting experience after

1757
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:32,200
Speaker 1: the fire each year. Okay, So we hunted in an

1758
01:49:32,240 --> 01:49:34,960
Speaker 1: area where there was fifty acre fires. A big fire

1759
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,439
Speaker 1: is super hot and it killed most of the forest.

1760
01:49:38,160 --> 01:49:41,400
Speaker 1: This is uh an area we hunt in the late hunt.

1761
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:44,639
Speaker 1: So we're there last week of October and first week

1762
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:48,080
Speaker 1: in November, right, and we're hunting in snow and so

1763
01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:51,640
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a fabulous time to hunt. The

1764
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,280
Speaker 1: bowls are in bachelor groups and a lot of times

1765
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: we'll get a lot of excellent looks. Right, And so

1766
01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:00,720
Speaker 1: we hunted this before the fire and was very very

1767
01:50:00,760 --> 01:50:04,479
Speaker 1: productive area. After the fire, it was so hot, but

1768
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:07,560
Speaker 1: the forage conditions were really good for about five or

1769
01:50:07,600 --> 01:50:10,160
Speaker 1: six years, so we still tag bowls in this area

1770
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:13,600
Speaker 1: after the fire, And then then this came up. The

1771
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:18,040
Speaker 1: lodgepole pine started falling down in jacks drawing, and we

1772
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:20,960
Speaker 1: hunted for two years after that. We had a hard

1773
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:24,759
Speaker 1: time even getting around the dog here, lodgepole pine, cutting lanes,

1774
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:28,320
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. Um. But eventually it became too

1775
01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:32,400
Speaker 1: hard for hunters and elk to reoccupy the area. So

1776
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:34,600
Speaker 1: this is a vast area that's going to have to

1777
01:50:34,640 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 1: grow open forest, a lot of lodgepoles, smaller stuff is

1778
01:50:37,800 --> 01:50:40,839
Speaker 1: gonna have to fall down, creating openings in the woods,

1779
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:43,559
Speaker 1: shade out the Cno, this that sort of thing. I'll

1780
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:45,599
Speaker 1: never get to hunt there in the rest of my life.

1781
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:51,240
Speaker 1: What generation will really depends on sort of the disturbance

1782
01:50:51,320 --> 01:50:54,200
Speaker 1: history that happens in there in the coming decades. If

1783
01:50:54,240 --> 01:50:57,080
Speaker 1: they just allow it to grow up, it's gonna be

1784
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:01,880
Speaker 1: a very dense dog hair place with cis and lodge

1785
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:04,560
Speaker 1: pole pine. You know, the stem counts and most of

1786
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:10,200
Speaker 1: the areas where I had stands, we're in the five

1787
01:51:10,360 --> 01:51:14,080
Speaker 1: to twenty thousand lodge bowl stems breaker they're just it's

1788
01:51:14,160 --> 01:51:17,160
Speaker 1: like hair and the dog literally dance lodge Pole pine

1789
01:51:17,200 --> 01:51:20,759
Speaker 1: after the fire. This is a six thousand to nearly

1790
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:23,360
Speaker 1: seven thousand feet elevation, So we're up in this sabutin

1791
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:26,160
Speaker 1: right in the cold forest, and it's gonna be a

1792
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: long time. If other fires come in there and they

1793
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 1: start pockmarking that landscape again, uh, then you'll start to

1794
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:37,320
Speaker 1: see those habitats come alive again. But it's not interesting

1795
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:40,320
Speaker 1: for forage. It's hard to get around and eat um.

1796
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:43,720
Speaker 1: I sort of used to think from the days when

1797
01:51:43,720 --> 01:51:45,720
Speaker 1: my father took me hunting that if it's hard for

1798
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:47,240
Speaker 1: me to get around, it's going to be hard for

1799
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:48,760
Speaker 1: white tail to get around. I grew up in the

1800
01:51:48,840 --> 01:51:52,600
Speaker 1: Lake States hunting in Minnesota, and the same thing. You know,

1801
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: if they're really having a pussy toe to get from

1802
01:51:55,439 --> 01:51:57,479
Speaker 1: place to place and it takes a long time and

1803
01:51:57,600 --> 01:52:00,680
Speaker 1: it's difficult to find forage and not going to hang out.

1804
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 1: There were tremendous bedding and forage areas in this patchwork

1805
01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:09,400
Speaker 1: for many decades and that's gone. That's a completely different

1806
01:52:09,439 --> 01:52:13,639
Speaker 1: look and feel to the place. So decades and there's

1807
01:52:13,680 --> 01:52:15,479
Speaker 1: got to be fire and other stuff going on to

1808
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:20,479
Speaker 1: start breaking it up again recreating That was the I

1809
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:22,720
Speaker 1: have a question Paul, you kind of touched on it

1810
01:52:22,880 --> 01:52:26,600
Speaker 1: about you know, super popular now and force management to

1811
01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:29,960
Speaker 1: bring prescribed fire now as you talked about in the south,

1812
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:33,240
Speaker 1: but more so at that like inner Mountain West or

1813
01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:37,000
Speaker 1: western landscapes, especially in the Wui's like all those will

1814
01:52:37,120 --> 01:52:42,000
Speaker 1: and urban areas. Um, are we losing our window with

1815
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: climate change to do have a lot more prescribed fire

1816
01:52:45,920 --> 01:52:47,800
Speaker 1: because I know you have the weather conditions, have to

1817
01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:52,320
Speaker 1: be perfect safety everything and have fire conditions and have

1818
01:52:52,439 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 1: the burn you want. Are we Is that affecting like

1819
01:52:54,960 --> 01:52:57,080
Speaker 1: how much prescribed fire we can put on the ground

1820
01:52:57,840 --> 01:53:00,200
Speaker 1: or no, is it not as much as we inc

1821
01:53:01,160 --> 01:53:04,280
Speaker 1: It's a smart question. The windows really shifting. It's getting smaller,

1822
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:08,400
Speaker 1: it's not getting bigger um and a lot of but

1823
01:53:08,479 --> 01:53:11,040
Speaker 1: there's still a ton of management going on and interface

1824
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 1: environments by a lot of different kinds of managers. A

1825
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:15,760
Speaker 1: lot of what they're doing is they're coming in and

1826
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:20,840
Speaker 1: they're thinning there, creating small piles for the fuel concentrations.

1827
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:23,760
Speaker 1: They're burning those piles and you'll see a lot less

1828
01:53:23,760 --> 01:53:28,360
Speaker 1: broadcast burning, which is the wild card right in those situations.

1829
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:31,600
Speaker 1: Where he got homes tucked in and and dense developments.

1830
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:34,000
Speaker 1: But you still have the pile burning that you can do.

1831
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:35,880
Speaker 1: And if you think about it, you can do pile

1832
01:53:35,960 --> 01:53:40,720
Speaker 1: burning all winter long. Um so uh and there's a

1833
01:53:40,800 --> 01:53:43,800
Speaker 1: pretty big window for that. So even with I guess

1834
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:46,200
Speaker 1: a two part of that. So even with climate change,

1835
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:50,280
Speaker 1: you're still saying we're we're doing good by pre commercial

1836
01:53:50,360 --> 01:53:53,960
Speaker 1: thinnings and mastication and all that, just reducing that trees

1837
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:56,120
Speaker 1: per acre in a lot of that area. Even though

1838
01:53:56,400 --> 01:53:58,800
Speaker 1: we are getting hotter and drier, we're still that's still

1839
01:53:58,840 --> 01:54:02,439
Speaker 1: a good move mint of force management. Yeah, we we

1840
01:54:02,520 --> 01:54:04,720
Speaker 1: have to use as much of the window as possible

1841
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:10,720
Speaker 1: and uh and and and treat these areas basically keep

1842
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:14,479
Speaker 1: people in their infrastructure safe and then move out from

1843
01:54:14,560 --> 01:54:16,679
Speaker 1: that because if you think about it, how the fire

1844
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:20,559
Speaker 1: comes to those communities is also a really key variable.

1845
01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:25,599
Speaker 1: Remember Paradise burn in California burned from spot fires five

1846
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:31,200
Speaker 1: miles away, right, and so so changing that how fire

1847
01:54:31,280 --> 01:54:34,800
Speaker 1: operates on the broader landscape needs to be coupled with

1848
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 1: really creating those safe environments in the wooee and places

1849
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:42,960
Speaker 1: near them. So, yeah, use as much of the window

1850
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:45,080
Speaker 1: as you can. And the really cool thing we're seeing

1851
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:47,200
Speaker 1: is once we bust into an area and we get

1852
01:54:47,240 --> 01:54:50,080
Speaker 1: good treatments, the window gets bigger. We have more and

1853
01:54:50,160 --> 01:54:52,600
Speaker 1: more opportunity because we've knocked the fuels down and so

1854
01:54:52,720 --> 01:54:55,240
Speaker 1: the maintenance work that goes on there's a lot less

1855
01:54:55,280 --> 01:54:58,720
Speaker 1: hazardous and so. But the one key part of your

1856
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:02,480
Speaker 1: question is if we don't have a fairly large footprint,

1857
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:05,240
Speaker 1: as the window shrinks, it's going to be less and

1858
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 1: less likely that we'll be able to have the sort

1859
01:55:08,640 --> 01:55:13,280
Speaker 1: of size of the footprint that we need. So timing matters, Paul.

1860
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:18,360
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, the governor of Wyoming hadn't

1861
01:55:18,440 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 1: made an interesting comment. It was during the sort of

1862
01:55:22,840 --> 01:55:28,200
Speaker 1: height of this this movement to take federally managed lands

1863
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:33,480
Speaker 1: and privatize them or transfer them to the states, and Um,

1864
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:37,600
Speaker 1: the governor Wyoming had made a comment that if Wyoming

1865
01:55:39,280 --> 01:55:44,200
Speaker 1: had all of the federal lands under its jurisdiction, one

1866
01:55:44,360 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 1: fire season would bankrupt the state or something to that effect.

1867
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:55,360
Speaker 1: Um him just pointing out the incredible cost of firework.

1868
01:55:55,880 --> 01:55:58,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned your own agency, the U. S. Forest Service,

1869
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:03,800
Speaker 1: And it's sort of, you know, it's it's evolving gradually

1870
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:10,320
Speaker 1: shifting set of priorities. What how much you know can

1871
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:14,800
Speaker 1: you quantify the sort of like time, money, brain space

1872
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:21,280
Speaker 1: that your agency is now dedicated to fire, presumably at

1873
01:56:21,320 --> 01:56:27,080
Speaker 1: the expense of other priorities. Years ago, sevent of the

1874
01:56:27,160 --> 01:56:31,880
Speaker 1: gross National Forest Service budget went to fire suppression on

1875
01:56:31,960 --> 01:56:34,720
Speaker 1: an average fire year. That varies now between fifty and

1876
01:56:35,800 --> 01:56:38,600
Speaker 1: of the budget. So you can see that the fire

1877
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:43,760
Speaker 1: issues is much larger, and it's incomprehensible for an agency

1878
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:47,640
Speaker 1: like the Forest Service or any other responsible agency to

1879
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:50,360
Speaker 1: say that we're not going to try to keep people

1880
01:56:50,480 --> 01:56:53,520
Speaker 1: safe and to protect the land and so so you'll

1881
01:56:53,560 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 1: see those investments increasing, but the proactive work has lagged behind.

1882
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 1: Uh And if you stop and think about if the

1883
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:04,960
Speaker 1: research is showing that being able to work on the

1884
01:57:05,080 --> 01:57:09,600
Speaker 1: landscape before the fact has a higher payoff than reacting

1885
01:57:09,800 --> 01:57:13,040
Speaker 1: in some of the worst moments when it's going to

1886
01:57:13,080 --> 01:57:15,640
Speaker 1: be difficult to stop the fires and keeping small. So

1887
01:57:16,240 --> 01:57:19,480
Speaker 1: so there needs to be this coupling at fairly large

1888
01:57:19,560 --> 01:57:23,240
Speaker 1: scales of trying to keep people safe while with proactive

1889
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:27,120
Speaker 1: work we're able to be able to buy down the

1890
01:57:27,560 --> 01:57:30,360
Speaker 1: changes that have occurred over the last century and a half.

1891
01:57:30,480 --> 01:57:34,560
Speaker 1: And you're seeing the current administration talk pretty seriously about

1892
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:37,480
Speaker 1: making some significant events, and a lot of our neighbors

1893
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:42,920
Speaker 1: Californias has invested five hundred million dollars, the state of

1894
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:46,880
Speaker 1: Oregon is investing hundreds of millions. Washington State kind of

1895
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:49,320
Speaker 1: the same thing. And so you're seeing a lot of

1896
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:54,200
Speaker 1: state and federal folks looking at how they can put

1897
01:57:54,280 --> 01:57:57,360
Speaker 1: together the people and the resources to operate at scale

1898
01:57:57,640 --> 01:58:00,480
Speaker 1: on the problem. Yeah, I imagine it's hard to get

1899
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:07,840
Speaker 1: It's hard to get policymakers, politicians convinced, um, you know,

1900
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,400
Speaker 1: when budgets are tight, to convince them that you can

1901
01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:15,840
Speaker 1: spend a dollar now and save two later. Right, Like

1902
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:18,400
Speaker 1: the logic adds up. But I imagine it's still a

1903
01:58:18,480 --> 01:58:20,680
Speaker 1: hard conversation to have, and it's probably hard to get

1904
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 1: people to want to invest up front rather than waiting

1905
01:58:24,360 --> 01:58:28,600
Speaker 1: till it's you know, literally a house on fire, um,

1906
01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:33,280
Speaker 1: and and deal with it then at at a higher cost. Absolutely,

1907
01:58:33,560 --> 01:58:35,400
Speaker 1: And you know, we're starting to get some really good

1908
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:41,120
Speaker 1: data um Headwaters Economics. A number of our partners across

1909
01:58:41,320 --> 01:58:45,560
Speaker 1: the West are are capturing the cost after the fire

1910
01:58:45,720 --> 01:58:48,960
Speaker 1: kinds of estimates, and they're comparing it to the suppression estimates,

1911
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:52,480
Speaker 1: and I think increasingly as these data get out, people

1912
01:58:52,520 --> 01:58:55,560
Speaker 1: are basically seeing it's a clever move to be able

1913
01:58:55,640 --> 01:58:58,920
Speaker 1: to minimize the total impact on society because they after

1914
01:58:59,040 --> 01:59:02,320
Speaker 1: the fire impact is much larger than the suppression cost

1915
01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:05,560
Speaker 1: or even the cost to do the proactive work. So

1916
01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:07,880
Speaker 1: you're seeing that starting to hit pay dirt, and you're

1917
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 1: starting to see those kinds of decisions and investments. You

1918
01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:14,680
Speaker 1: think about it, it's it's a fairly significant shift and

1919
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:17,240
Speaker 1: people have to really sharpen their pencils and look at

1920
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:20,960
Speaker 1: the trade offs. And because there's not an endless supply

1921
01:59:21,040 --> 01:59:23,880
Speaker 1: of money, right, they're having to make tough decisions about

1922
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:27,440
Speaker 1: where to invest resources. So Paul just we touched on

1923
01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:31,720
Speaker 1: climate change with fire intensity and then like early succession,

1924
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:34,360
Speaker 1: like a lot of forests transitioning from that early successional

1925
01:59:34,440 --> 01:59:37,400
Speaker 1: to late successional you know, age class tree s breaker.

1926
01:59:37,480 --> 01:59:40,880
Speaker 1: But what about is there any significant impact on over

1927
01:59:41,240 --> 01:59:45,880
Speaker 1: on fire as a landscape level um with like insect

1928
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:48,000
Speaker 1: and disease, So they have like like white pine blister

1929
01:59:48,120 --> 01:59:51,640
Speaker 1: rested with white pine, mountain pine beetle, or even just

1930
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:54,640
Speaker 1: invasives to like cheat grass and stuff, Like how how

1931
01:59:54,720 --> 01:59:57,760
Speaker 1: big of a role is the shifting of insect disease

1932
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:00,840
Speaker 1: or invasives playing in the change of fire intensities in

1933
02:00:00,880 --> 02:00:05,240
Speaker 1: the West. So in terms of invasives, the more severe

1934
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:09,280
Speaker 1: the fire and the more the soil severity impact, the

1935
02:00:09,400 --> 02:00:12,800
Speaker 1: likelihood of invasives really getting a stronghold and expanding is

1936
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:19,480
Speaker 1: a big deal. Invasives are less than well understood problem

1937
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:23,840
Speaker 1: in in the public eye, and they really, they really

1938
02:00:23,920 --> 02:00:27,240
Speaker 1: have the ability to change the landscape. Think about cheat

1939
02:00:27,320 --> 02:00:30,560
Speaker 1: grass in the places that you've hunted. When cheat grass

1940
02:00:30,640 --> 02:00:34,400
Speaker 1: obtains across the landscape, it changes the fire regime so

1941
02:00:34,720 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 1: that the bunch grasses that used to be there, when

1942
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:40,840
Speaker 1: they are replaced by cheat grasses, you have a continuous

1943
02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:43,520
Speaker 1: fuel bed and those areas can keep burning. And so

1944
02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:47,080
Speaker 1: cheat grass gets a purchase on the landscape and it

1945
02:00:47,200 --> 02:00:49,880
Speaker 1: keeps growing in a much larger area. The same with

1946
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:52,520
Speaker 1: a number of invasives. So invasives are a big deal.

1947
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:56,760
Speaker 1: The bark beetle thing, the bark beetle of feedback is

1948
02:00:56,800 --> 02:00:58,840
Speaker 1: on the front end, right, So you have too many

1949
02:00:58,920 --> 02:01:01,960
Speaker 1: trees a low vigor during the hot, dry years, you

1950
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:05,000
Speaker 1: get a lot of bark beetle mortality. Think of the

1951
02:01:05,600 --> 02:01:08,520
Speaker 1: million acres in British Columbia that went down early in

1952
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:13,120
Speaker 1: the century, right, Um, awful lot of that collapses over

1953
02:01:13,240 --> 02:01:15,880
Speaker 1: one to three decades. And now you've got this incredible

1954
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:19,400
Speaker 1: injection of fuel into the system, and that will produce

1955
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:22,720
Speaker 1: a very different response across fairly large areas where you

1956
02:01:22,760 --> 02:01:25,800
Speaker 1: have big beetle upbreaks. So that's kind of the tail

1957
02:01:25,880 --> 02:01:28,920
Speaker 1: wagon the dog and that sort of thing. Um does

1958
02:01:29,480 --> 02:01:33,520
Speaker 1: do wildfires sanitize so that you don't have bark beetles? Yeah,

1959
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:35,680
Speaker 1: for a time. And if the forest come back, and

1960
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:37,800
Speaker 1: if they come back really dense, and once they get

1961
02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:41,160
Speaker 1: two diameters that are post material for the Beatles, you'll

1962
02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:44,960
Speaker 1: see that cycle happen again. So the fire regime, having

1963
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:47,720
Speaker 1: a characteristic fire regime for the forest type is a

1964
02:01:47,880 --> 02:01:51,160
Speaker 1: key to keeping those things in balance over big space

1965
02:01:51,240 --> 02:01:54,880
Speaker 1: and time. That makes sense. The fire regime, having a

1966
02:01:55,000 --> 02:01:58,920
Speaker 1: characteristic fire regime is the engine that drives the system. Yeah, no,

1967
02:01:59,080 --> 02:02:02,480
Speaker 1: that makes perfect sense, thank you. Yeah, I know with

1968
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:06,040
Speaker 1: climate change and fire shifting a lot. Now do you

1969
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:12,000
Speaker 1: feel like we're making a positive UM advance socially? Like

1970
02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:15,560
Speaker 1: people are getting more accepting of like prescribed burning, understanding

1971
02:02:16,200 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 1: fire has a role. But then you know, high severity

1972
02:02:19,240 --> 02:02:22,400
Speaker 1: fires are damaging. Um, and do you think management is

1973
02:02:22,720 --> 02:02:25,520
Speaker 1: kind of transitioning to you know? It kind of seems

1974
02:02:25,520 --> 02:02:28,360
Speaker 1: like it's a pendulum swinging back and forth from the

1975
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, ten am policy of fire suppression to you know,

1976
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:35,920
Speaker 1: but like, do you think we're going in a positive route?

1977
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:40,000
Speaker 1: I guess I do. It's another really smart question. So, UM,

1978
02:02:40,200 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: when I talk to my social scientists friends, what they're

1979
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:47,840
Speaker 1: basically telling me is people get it. They're accepting of

1980
02:02:48,040 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 1: the treatments that are important to to move the compass

1981
02:02:51,960 --> 02:02:55,360
Speaker 1: heading right from where we are to a better place. Um,

1982
02:02:56,240 --> 02:03:00,520
Speaker 1: but we're also learning from them based on pastic experience

1983
02:03:00,640 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 1: that if treatments in the woods are driven primarily by

1984
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:09,040
Speaker 1: a commercial desire, there's mistrust in the process. But where

1985
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:12,000
Speaker 1: the timber removed is a byproduct of getting the right

1986
02:03:12,040 --> 02:03:14,600
Speaker 1: stuff done in the woods to be able to change conditions.

1987
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:17,120
Speaker 1: There's a high degree of trust and that and that's

1988
02:03:17,160 --> 02:03:19,520
Speaker 1: a certain they call it a zone of agreement. People

1989
02:03:19,600 --> 02:03:22,400
Speaker 1: want to do that, but but the trust depends on

1990
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:27,640
Speaker 1: being driven to climate change adapt and fire regime adapt

1991
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:30,800
Speaker 1: the woods. It makes sense, so he as it does?

1992
02:03:30,920 --> 02:03:33,440
Speaker 1: Or do do you feel like the public is generally

1993
02:03:34,440 --> 02:03:38,040
Speaker 1: being more trustworthy of the federal especially the US Forest Service,

1994
02:03:38,320 --> 02:03:41,240
Speaker 1: as far as whenever kind of you know, any timber

1995
02:03:41,280 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 1: management is done it is not for timber production, but

1996
02:03:44,040 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 1: more for a civil culture based landscape level management. Do

1997
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:50,400
Speaker 1: you think that's changing in the public's eye they're more um,

1998
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, accepting of that, or do think it's still

1999
02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:55,160
Speaker 1: when they see any timber management being done they look

2000
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 1: at it as it's for that value. That's a good

2001
02:03:59,200 --> 02:04:01,400
Speaker 1: question because I think a lot of people who aren't

2002
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:08,120
Speaker 1: well schooled reflectively, like if they see logging activity, they're

2003
02:04:08,160 --> 02:04:11,160
Speaker 1: sort of trained to be like, oh, that's bad. Yes,

2004
02:04:11,480 --> 02:04:15,800
Speaker 1: And how are those timber companies managing compared to the

2005
02:04:15,960 --> 02:04:19,480
Speaker 1: Forest Service? Like, I assume they're probably doing a fairly

2006
02:04:19,560 --> 02:04:24,280
Speaker 1: good job, but the perception is probably much different. Yeah,

2007
02:04:24,400 --> 02:04:26,400
Speaker 1: So there's a bunch of layers there. I'll try to

2008
02:04:26,720 --> 02:04:31,120
Speaker 1: hit it with one sort of overarching idea. The public

2009
02:04:31,240 --> 02:04:33,760
Speaker 1: is a big thing, right. It's made up of all

2010
02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:38,120
Speaker 1: sorts of disparate groups with different histories and attitudes and

2011
02:04:38,280 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 1: concerns and values. By and large, there's expanding trust to

2012
02:04:43,480 --> 02:04:47,080
Speaker 1: do good work with the devil's in the details, right, Um,

2013
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:52,440
Speaker 1: what we generally see from the social science studies is uh,

2014
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,800
Speaker 1: people who live closer to the land. So I'm thinking

2015
02:04:56,040 --> 02:05:00,800
Speaker 1: of the rural communities, people that are natural resource space there,

2016
02:05:01,200 --> 02:05:07,640
Speaker 1: Um they've got mills nearby, their ranching communities, farming communities.

2017
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:11,240
Speaker 1: Where people live close to the land, there's very strong

2018
02:05:11,440 --> 02:05:15,800
Speaker 1: concern about the current conditions, and people are cooler about

2019
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:20,120
Speaker 1: getting the work done. Where people live in more metropolitan

2020
02:05:20,240 --> 02:05:22,840
Speaker 1: areas and they're a little bit more detached, we see

2021
02:05:23,600 --> 02:05:29,400
Speaker 1: more of this highly different view of of sort of

2022
02:05:29,480 --> 02:05:36,120
Speaker 1: disaffection with forest management techniques and silvicultural techniques because there's

2023
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:39,680
Speaker 1: still a deep vein of mistrust in some communities and

2024
02:05:41,080 --> 02:05:44,720
Speaker 1: so an awful lot of When I speak in public,

2025
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:48,200
Speaker 1: I basically say I'm talking to you about a social

2026
02:05:48,320 --> 02:05:52,360
Speaker 1: problem that has an ecological explanation, all right, because the

2027
02:05:52,480 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 1: solution lives in the social domain. It's people coming together

2028
02:05:56,640 --> 02:05:58,680
Speaker 1: to agree on what to do, where to do it,

2029
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,160
Speaker 1: and how to do it. Um. Well, I can explain

2030
02:06:02,280 --> 02:06:04,280
Speaker 1: from my research and that of a bunch of other

2031
02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:07,839
Speaker 1: colleagues how we got here and what the science suggests

2032
02:06:08,440 --> 02:06:12,080
Speaker 1: represents good work. But in the end, it's people coming

2033
02:06:12,120 --> 02:06:15,120
Speaker 1: together to forward to those agreements. And whether that happens

2034
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:18,480
Speaker 1: fast enough and that scale, it remains to be seen.

2035
02:06:18,800 --> 02:06:23,640
Speaker 1: We're not there, Paul. I think we're good. Man appreciate it. Hey, thanks,

2036
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:26,880
Speaker 1: thanks the work you guys do, keep it going. Thanks

2037
02:06:26,880 --> 02:06:32,240
Speaker 1: a lot again, Paul Hesberg. Um, he's got like a that.

2038
02:06:32,560 --> 02:06:34,400
Speaker 1: He's got some kind of ted talking. Go check out too.

2039
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:38,000
Speaker 1: Maybe we'll put that in liner notes. Um, thank you

2040
02:06:38,120 --> 02:06:42,200
Speaker 1: guys all sitting here. Brodie, thanks for the smoke Lake trout.

2041
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:45,880
Speaker 1: Next time, I won't dry it out pull a little earlier.

2042
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:48,520
Speaker 1: I got a few more filets in there to experiment with.

2043
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:52,360
Speaker 1: Rick and Seth. Thanks for hosting me on The Flintlock Hunt. Yeah,

2044
02:06:53,080 --> 02:06:55,320
Speaker 1: Chip in the poof available on Netflix. Yeah, thanks for

2045
02:06:55,360 --> 02:06:57,400
Speaker 1: having me on the podcast. Phil, thanks for stepping above

2046
02:06:57,440 --> 02:07:00,600
Speaker 1: and beyond man taking on like a producer role. Yeah, friends,

2047
02:07:00,720 --> 02:07:03,440
Speaker 1: it's harder than it looks tearing it up. Yeah, Johnny,

2048
02:07:03,560 --> 02:07:07,680
Speaker 1: thanks for drawing at sheet tag. Hey, you're very welcome.

2049
02:07:08,600 --> 02:07:10,320
Speaker 1: I should like to have one of those. I'll keep

2050
02:07:10,360 --> 02:07:13,520
Speaker 1: you all posted how it goes all right, So you

2051
02:07:13,560 --> 02:07:14,000
Speaker 1: guys soon