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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Good morning, everybody, Happy Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: We have an amazing show for everybody today.

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Speaker 3: What'll be Crystal.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, we do some interesting topics to tackle this morning.

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Speaker 1: We got a little debate over debates between Kamala and

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Speaker 1: Trump revolving around whether the mic should be on or off.

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Speaker 4: It's kind of interesting, It is kind of interesting. We'll

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Speaker 4: get into that.

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Speaker 1: Also continued pressure on Kamala Harris to give an interview

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Speaker 1: like a good idea to meet Quentin Tarantino though, weighing

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Speaker 1: in on that in an interesting way, So play those

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Speaker 1: comments for you. Also, Jax be excited to be joined

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Speaker 1: this morning by a gen Z panel. We took note

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Speaker 1: of a new poll from New York Times Sienna. They

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Speaker 1: did some reporting on massive gender gap in particular among

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Speaker 1: young voters, which there's a gender gap among all age groups,

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Speaker 1: but with gen Z it is particularly stark. So interesting

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Speaker 1: demographic things going on there to dive into.

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Speaker 4: With the panel.

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Speaker 1: Trump meanwhile desperately trying to moderate on abortion and making

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Speaker 1: some within the pro life community very very unhappy. Will

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Speaker 1: that matter come election time? We'll talk about that. We

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Speaker 1: also have some actually good news Justice Department going after

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Speaker 1: that rent collusion scheme that we've reported on a few

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Speaker 1: times here, involving real page. We'll break that down for you.

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Speaker 1: We also got new polling on Kamala's economic plan, including

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Speaker 1: her plan for quote unquote price controls, which isn't even

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Speaker 1: really what she's doing, but that's the way it was

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Speaker 1: framed anyway. It's really popular. Might be popular with economists,

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Speaker 1: but very popular with the American people. We're also bringing

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Speaker 1: on David Sirota, who has a fantastic new podcast called

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Speaker 1: master Plan. They spent two years reporting this out about

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Speaker 1: the plot to basically legalize and normalize corruption in America.

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Speaker 4: What could be more important topic.

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Speaker 1: He does a fantastic job breaking all of that down,

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Speaker 1: so excited to talk to him about that as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be a fun show.

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Speaker 2: We always like to get debates and things here on

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Speaker 2: the panel and actually with some gen Z folks. I

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Speaker 2: know people enjoyed our gen Z one previously. Thank you

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Speaker 2: to all of our premium subscribers, all the people who

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Speaker 2: took advantage of the free month trial whenever we were

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Speaker 2: in Chicago. If you missed out on that, don't worry,

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Speaker 2: it could still just become a premium member Today Breakingpoints

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Speaker 2: dot com. We've got a lot of fun coverage plan,

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Speaker 2: including with the debate if such a debate materializes. So

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of consternation yesterday. Debates around the debate,

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Speaker 2: and actually they reveal some interesting things about the Trump campaign,

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Speaker 2: about the Harris campaign, and about the major differences between

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's let's go ahead and put

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Speaker 2: this up there on the screen. Everything broke out into

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Speaker 2: the open and of course Politico playbook where they talk

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Speaker 2: here about quote Harris and Trump battle over hot mics

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Speaker 2: at the debate. So all of this comes down to

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Speaker 2: the rules of the debate, which were pre negotiated by

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Speaker 2: the Biden and the Trump campaigns. The Biden campaign famously

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Speaker 2: insisted on a couple things. Number One, microphones will be

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Speaker 2: muted throughout the debate except for when the candidate whose

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Speaker 2: turn it is to speak. They insisted on no studio audience,

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Speaker 2: and of course they insisted on moderators at CNN, and

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Speaker 2: then they eventually I also agreed to this ABC News debate. Now,

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Speaker 2: since Biden dropped out of the race, there apparently has

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Speaker 2: been a major fight between the Harris campaign and the

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Speaker 2: Trump campaign, because the Harri's campaign is like, no, we're

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Speaker 2: not the Biden campaign, We're a different one.

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Speaker 3: They want the mics unmuted.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: What's fascinating about that is that the Harris campaign is

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Speaker 2: making a very different play here where they believe that

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Speaker 2: Trump and actually, if people will go roll the tape

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Speaker 2: before that debate, I was like, I think it might

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Speaker 2: be a mistake for Trump to have muted mikes or

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Speaker 2: largely because I think he's better off the cuff. But

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Speaker 2: what the Harris people are bargaining on is that Trump

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Speaker 2: will not be able to restrain himself and that he

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Speaker 2: will appear chaotic, that he'll interrupt her. There are allegedly

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Speaker 2: a few moments where Trump did try in that CNN debate,

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Speaker 2: but of course wish we didn't hear any of it

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Speaker 2: because of those muted microphones. But the point is that

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Speaker 2: the Harris campaign is trying to elevate an image of

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump while without trying to cap their downside risk,

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Speaker 2: where clearly I think Biden's campaign wanted to just be

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Speaker 2: a very controlled, very like staid debate where you're trying

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Speaker 2: to basically protect an old man who eventually does sink

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Speaker 2: himself from that first one is there did Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: no matter what they did, you know, when you open

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Speaker 2: your mouth and you're that far gone, it almost wasn't

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Speaker 2: really there.

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Speaker 1: Was no debate rule that we can rescue him last

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Speaker 1: time around. I mean I always thought that there was

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Speaker 1: foolish even for Biden to want this rule in place. Again,

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Speaker 1: it did not end up being that significant or that determinative.

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Speaker 4: But you'll recall in the first debate back.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty between Trump and Biden, Trump basically undercut himself.

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Speaker 4: Bidenn't do anything special.

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Speaker 1: It's just Trump was so out of control and just

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Speaker 1: would not let him finish a sentence that almost across

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Speaker 1: the board people said this was a disaster for him,

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Speaker 1: and so personally, I think Kamala Harris is team wanting

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Speaker 1: the rule to be that the MIC's stay on number one.

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Speaker 1: I think it's better in the interest of transparence. We

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Speaker 1: talked some about this before, like if there's something said

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Speaker 1: by Trump, who and there's only the uh, you know

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Speaker 1: this one network in the room, they get to determine

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Speaker 1: whether it's in the official transcript script or not.

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Speaker 4: You don't really get to hear it. So I just

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Speaker 4: think it's better in general.

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Speaker 1: But also I think it's emblematic of the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Kamala Harris people are running a smarter campaign with

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Speaker 1: Kamala and than they were with Biden, which is funny

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Speaker 1: because it's a lot of the same campaign team. They

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Speaker 1: do have some new figures that are influential at the top,

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Speaker 1: But to me, it's a much smarter play to let

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Speaker 1: Trump hang himself with, you know, being over the top,

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Speaker 1: being too abrasive, being too aggressive. Their bet is that

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Speaker 1: he won't be able to control himself, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty fair bet.

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Speaker 4: Now there's a lot of back and forth.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that's kind of interesting is it's

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Speaker 1: more Trump's campaign team that wants to keep the mics

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Speaker 1: muted than it is Trump himself. He came out and

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Speaker 1: was like, I kind of prefer to have him on,

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Speaker 1: but this is what we agreed to, so we should

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Speaker 1: just stand by that.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of posturing going on here too.

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Speaker 1: It is true that these particular debates are what the

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Speaker 1: Biden team agreed to, and then when Kamala steps into

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Speaker 1: the role, she basically she's trying to take the pieces

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Speaker 1: she likes and leave the pieces that she doesn't like.

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Speaker 1: So she likes the schedule of just having this one

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Speaker 1: debate in September.

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Speaker 4: She likes the that it's ABC.

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Speaker 1: You know, she's comfortable with all of that, but she

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Speaker 1: wants to tweak the rules around the edges. So in

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Speaker 1: any case, overall, I think it's better for the mics

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Speaker 1: to be on. But I understand why Trump's campaign is like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we kind of like things the way they are.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is actually kind of interesting Trump himself. By

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Speaker 2: the way this was all playing out, you had Trump

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Speaker 2: advisors being like, no, the mics need to be turned

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Speaker 2: on and all of that. But then he was asked

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Speaker 2: at a campaign stop actually here in northern Virginia what

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Speaker 2: he thought about the rules.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen, would you want.

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Speaker 2: The microphone commuted in the debate whenever you're not speaking.

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Speaker 6: We agreed to the same rules. I don't know, it

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Speaker 6: doesn't matter to me. I'd rather have it probably on,

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Speaker 6: but familiarly, the agreement was that it would be the

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Speaker 6: same as it was last time. In that case it

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Speaker 6: was muted. I didn't like it the last time, but

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Speaker 6: it worked out fine, I asked Biden. Now it worked out,

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Speaker 6: it was fine, and I think it should be the same.

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Speaker 6: We agreed to the same rules, same rules and same specifications,

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Speaker 6: and I think that's probably what it should be. But

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Speaker 6: they're trying to change it. The truth is they're trying

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Speaker 6: to get out of it because she doesn't want a debate.

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Speaker 6: She's not a good debater, she's not a smart person.

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Speaker 6: She doesn't want a debate.

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Speaker 3: So there you go. He's He's like, well, it doesn't

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Speaker 3: really matter to me.

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Speaker 2: He's one of those previously one of the things that

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Speaker 2: he actually has now said it was a bad decision,

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Speaker 2: and I'm wondering if this informs his analysis he believes

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Speaker 2: solidly correctly. But it was a mistake to agree to

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Speaker 2: debate Biden so well, I mean, because he would have

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Speaker 2: stayed in the race and he's like, well, he did

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Speaker 2: so badly.

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Speaker 3: He dropped out.

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Speaker 2: He's now he's been kind of striking at jihad against

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Speaker 2: ABC News. George, I think a slap Adopolis is the name.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's not that's a good one.

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Speaker 1: I love a lot better than mo bla yeah, a

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Speaker 1: mob blah yeah. I don't even understand anyway, slap Adopolis

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Speaker 1: is good. So he's very mad at ABC News.

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Speaker 2: I'm not exactly sure why, but he keeps threatening to

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Speaker 2: pull out of the debate. And I think he's more

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Speaker 2: trying to keep them on their toes because in his head,

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Speaker 2: he believes that it was such a big mistake eventually

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Speaker 2: to agree to that. So in general, and now you've

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Speaker 2: got more posturing here. We've got the Kamala Harris campaign

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Speaker 2: that is now posting a video about Trump and the debates,

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Speaker 2: adding chicken sounds to the clip.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 6: They already know everything's Trump's, you know, not doing the debate.

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Speaker 6: That's the same things they say now. I mean, right now,

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Speaker 6: I say, why should I do a debate? I'm leading

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Speaker 6: in the polls and everybody knows. Everybody knows me, all right.

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Speaker 3: So there you go.

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Speaker 2: He's accusing him of being chicken like this lady lially

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Speaker 2: won't even do an interview.

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Speaker 1: So okay, they're both trying to posture like this, what

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want to He's afraid he doesn't want a debate.

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Speaker 4: You know, she's afraid she doesn't want a debate.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's sort of some some betting going on

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Speaker 1: whether or not this debate is actually going to happen

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Speaker 1: in fifteen days. I suspect it will, because neither one

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Speaker 1: of them sane.

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Speaker 4: I think the.

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Speaker 1: Trump people feel like, you know, just based on their decision,

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Speaker 1: I think they feel like they're a little bit behind,

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Speaker 1: and so, you know, they need to make up a

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Speaker 1: little ground. They need to change the framing around the

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Speaker 1: campaign and the conversation around the campaign. Of course, a

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Speaker 1: debate is a fantastic opportunity to do that, But the

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris people don't feel like there's so much ahead

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Speaker 1: that they can afford to just, you know, back out

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Speaker 1: of a debate, and the optics of that are a problem,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. So I mean, I think it's

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Speaker 1: likely to happen. I don't know if the mix will

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Speaker 1: be on or off or that it matters all that much,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of pre debate posturing and Trump over

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Speaker 1: the weekend. He also, you know, he put out a

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Speaker 1: true social that seemed to call into question, like make

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Speaker 1: it seem like he was trying to back out of

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Speaker 1: the debate.

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Speaker 3: A little bit.

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Speaker 1: But again, I think the dynamics of the race are

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Speaker 1: close enough that both of these candidates really have an

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Speaker 1: incentive to go forward with this pre agreed.

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Speaker 3: Debate, which is good because the country needs actually to

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Speaker 3: see it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean at least one Jesus like she get

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Speaker 1: a lot more than that.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, you know, not to step too much on our

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Speaker 2: next seitement about interviews, but I was reading this morning

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Speaker 2: about who Kamala thinks they were going to do an interview.

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Speaker 2: Their first choice was David Muir of ABC News, but

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Speaker 2: because he's the moderator of the debate, that means that

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Speaker 2: they are likely ruling him out. But so by reading that, though,

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Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, well, that's setually a good sign

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Speaker 2: that she's probably going to do the debate, because at

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Speaker 2: the very least, then when they're thinking of that, then

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Speaker 2: they're like, well then they probably are going to participate.

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Speaker 2: Trump obviously is the wild card at a certain point too.

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Speaker 2: He's also trying to, you know, make sure that there's

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Speaker 2: interest and hype around the debate.

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Speaker 3: But you're right, I mean, both of these candidates need this.

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Speaker 2: We are in a complete toss up election now with

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Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. One of the interesting things was reading some

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Speaker 2: polling this morning. They were finding it was like Kamala

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Speaker 2: looks like a quote strong leader. And that's actually one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest changes that you see in the howling

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Speaker 2: between Joe Biden and her makes sense because you have

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Speaker 2: like a corpse versus a functioning mean but it's a

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Speaker 2: major incentive for the American people because they need to

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Speaker 2: imagine her in the job, and part of imagining somebody

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Speaker 2: in the job is doing a presidential debate. That's what

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Speaker 2: I'm all American, just tine. So in general, my refrain

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Speaker 2: is like debates don't matter. But because this is such

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Speaker 2: an unknown candidate relative to like the general election field,

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Speaker 2: in that way, I think it's probably higher stakes for

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Speaker 2: her more so than for him. The other thing where

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Speaker 2: the stakes true for Trump are that you know, with

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Speaker 2: the Biden debate, he wasn't the story and in a

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Speaker 2: way like he's got a hope and pray for one

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Speaker 2: of those Kamala twisted moments. And I actually think there's

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of risk to for Kamala because I mean,

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Speaker 2: she's changed her position on everything she's ever said. You know, Chris,

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Speaker 2: I'm reading this morning in Axios, she supports building a

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Speaker 2: border wall.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, do you believe anything, lady.

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Speaker 4: What do you believe?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, she should be she's Selena Meyer, like almost literally

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Speaker 2: out of the HBO show.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but Trump is a difficult person to prosecute

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Speaker 1: that case because he also has been all over the that. Yes,

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Speaker 1: definitely to the same extent. Just so we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about abortion, like how many different positions has he

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Speaker 1: taken on.

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Speaker 4: Abortion throughout his career. At one time he said that

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Speaker 4: was women who get abortion should be punished.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, he is also the king of saying whatever

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Speaker 1: he wants, even within like the same interview, he'll change

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Speaker 1: his position. However, point stands about Kamala also true about her.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the position that debates don't matter has

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Speaker 1: taken a pretty hard beating this year.

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Speaker 3: So we're looking at a large.

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Speaker 1: A few things more consequential, like single events, more consequential

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Speaker 1: in modern politics than Biden deciding to do that debate

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Speaker 1: and Trump accepting. I'm sure he does. Even as he

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Speaker 1: said in the club, oh, I've worked out pretty well

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Speaker 1: for me. He does not think that. He thinks that

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Speaker 1: was a catastrophic decision. He is still ruing the day

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Speaker 1: that he took the bait of that debate challenge. And

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Speaker 1: there were people on the Democratic side, like Chuck Schumer,

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Speaker 1: who wanted the debate to be early just so they

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Speaker 1: would have this potential opportunity if it went really badly

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Speaker 1: for Biden to you know, pull the plug on him,

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Speaker 1: force amount and have a better, you know, more winning hand,

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Speaker 1: possibility of winning hand going into November. So, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was one of the most consequential political decisions you can

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Speaker 1: possibly imagine.

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Speaker 4: So are the stakes as high for this debate?

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say so, because Kamala is likely We're likely

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Speaker 1: to have some you know, work typical word sality type

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Speaker 1: answers from Kamala, but nothing like what Biden did.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's I think it would be.

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Speaker 1: I cannot conceive of anyone having his catastrophica performance as

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden did.

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Speaker 4: Remember all those that we kept the camera on while

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Speaker 4: we were.

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Speaker 1: Watching the debate and they're all those eris like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is insane.

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Speaker 4: I can't imagine that happening.

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Speaker 1: But because she's new, because she's untested, because there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of half formed opinions about her, it is obviously

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Speaker 1: consequential and in any case, it matters for our democracy

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Speaker 1: for people to get to see both of these individuals

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Speaker 1: under pressure. And to your point about the stakes being

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Speaker 1: higher for her than for him, I think that's right

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Speaker 1: because by and large, people know how they feel about

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. They do There's nothing that he could do,

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Speaker 1: say whatever that's really going to change a lot of

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Speaker 1: minds about Donald Trump at this point in time in

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Speaker 1: American life. With Kamala part of why she's risen so

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Speaker 1: quickly is because views of her, the negative views of her,

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Speaker 1: turned out to be quite soft. Well, the positive views

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Speaker 1: of her are also probably quite soft at this point

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Speaker 1: because we're talking about basically a month of real you know,

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Speaker 1: focus on her, on you know, the biggest stage in

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Speaker 1: the entire world. So I think that the view of

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Speaker 1: her is quite malleable and could change very quickly. That's

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Speaker 1: a hopeful thing for the Trump campaign because her approval

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Speaker 1: rating is pretty decent at this point, you know, higher

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Speaker 1: than his and sometimes not positive, which again for modern politician,

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Speaker 1: is actually quite a feat. So they have an opportunity

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Speaker 1: here to ding her up a bit. And so that's

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Speaker 1: that's why I think the debate will go forward, because

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Speaker 1: ultimately I think they're going to want to take that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to want to take that opportunity.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, there's an elite debate about the

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Speaker 2: debate and about interviews, about whether Kamalas should do interviews.

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Speaker 2: Quentin tarantino I mentioned this yesterday. We thought we would

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Speaker 2: talk about it because it probably is a very common

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Speaker 2: elite liberal mindset. Basically, it was like, now, she shouldn't

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Speaker 2: do an interview at all. Sometimes it's just about winning.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a listen, but this is about fucking winning.

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Speaker 7: What what Most people don't give the Democrats enough credit for, all, right,

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Speaker 7: but we give the Republicans credit for It's like, no,

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Speaker 7: sometimes it's just about fucking winning, and it doesn't matter

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Speaker 7: how we look at this moment. It's about fucking winning, right,

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Speaker 7: This is about fucking winning.

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Speaker 8: Yep, No, it is.

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Speaker 3: It's a mad fucking dash and she is running and she's.

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Speaker 5: Not stopping to stumble, and you know what, and there's

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Speaker 5: nothing along with stopping this. I'm gonna for a fucking

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Speaker 5: anyway no matter what she says in a stupid fucking

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Speaker 5: interview exact, So don't fuck shut.

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Speaker 2: Up, quint Quintin, by the way, I highly recommend that interview.

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Speaker 2: It might actually be one of the worst interviews I've

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Speaker 2: ever listened to because of Bill Maher, because I listened

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Speaker 2: to every interview Quentin Tarantino games. I love his thoughts

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Speaker 2: on film. I could listen to that man literally for hours.

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Speaker 2: And Bill, at various points interrupts Quentin and we's making

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Speaker 2: good points about film, and then at one point insinuates

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Speaker 2: it Quentin doesn't know as much about two thousand.

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Speaker 3: And one A Space Odyssey as he does, which.

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Speaker 2: Is one of the most insane interview moments I've ever

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Speaker 2: listened to.

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Speaker 4: But there are confidence it's a man the ego to.

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Speaker 2: Interrupt Quintin Tarantino with maybe you don't remember about Stanley

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Speaker 2: Kubrick's two thousand and one Space Audits. He's like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: Quentin doesn't remember the guy who was an encyclopedic knowledge

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Speaker 2: of like every film ever made in US.

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Speaker 3: History.

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Speaker 2: So Tarantino stand here for film reasons. But but Tarantino

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Speaker 2: sums up a very you know, calm sentiment amongst I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of elite liberals.

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Speaker 3: We did see a poll this morning. I mean, I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 2: I just to take it seriously, Puck News saying eighty

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Speaker 2: nine percent of Americans say they want to see America

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Speaker 2: do press. But it's like, did they really? I mean,

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Speaker 2: our favorability is going up. I think people do want

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Speaker 2: to see it, people like us and others. But part

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Speaker 2: of the problem is that a lot of the expectations

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Speaker 2: of our major candidates have really fallen off a cliff recently,

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Speaker 2: and we don't demand any of the things that we

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Speaker 2: used to. A lot of the norms have been destroyed

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Speaker 2: by Trump. I think some of that is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: But part of the problem is that along the wayside

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Speaker 2: is that you sit for friendly interviews for others. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Kamalo has now been so it's August twenty seventh. Joe

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Speaker 2: Biden dropped out of the race. What on July twenty first,

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Speaker 2: so over a month now she's been a candidate. She

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Speaker 2: promised to have a quote major interview scheduled until by

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Speaker 2: Labor Day, that schedule has still not yet happened, right, So,

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Speaker 2: like not even the interview itself has happened.

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Speaker 3: And you know, we've only got seventy days.

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Speaker 2: Officially today until the election, so it's not you know,

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Speaker 2: almost two months and some change, and you know, the

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Speaker 2: first time we hear from her on the debate stage.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a problem I really do for democracy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely it is.

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Speaker 1: I mean to your point about like the norms, you know,

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Speaker 1: which sometimes we mock and deride the obsession with the norms.

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Speaker 1: But when you have norms break down, what that means

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Speaker 1: is that anything that you want to actually have has

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Speaker 1: to be codified. They have to be forced to do it,

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Speaker 1: because I guarantee you her campaign is making exactly the

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Speaker 1: same calculus that Quentin Tarantino is elucidating there basically, like, no,

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Speaker 1: no one is going to switch their vote based on

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Speaker 1: this process. Question about Kamala Harris not doing an interview,

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Speaker 1: that's their bet, and I think they're probably correct that

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Speaker 1: even though yes, you'll get ninety percent of Americans or

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Speaker 1: whatever who say, yes, of course we'd like her to

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Speaker 1: do an interview, is that going to affect their vote?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: For almost no one. Is it actually going to change

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Speaker 1: whether or not they vote for her.

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Speaker 4: Probably not. So it's not that they're lying.

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Speaker 1: It's just that it's not these They see it as

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Speaker 1: a side issue, not determinative, et cetera. And that's what

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Speaker 1: the Harris people are banking on. You know, she has

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Speaker 1: always been a cautious politician. Some of her worst moments

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Speaker 1: have come in interviews with mainstream figures. So it's not

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Speaker 1: like she can feel confident if she sits down with

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Speaker 1: some you know, relatively friendly mainstream interviewer, that that's going

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Speaker 1: to be any sort of a safety blanket for her.

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Speaker 1: She still has to be able off the cuff to

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Speaker 1: respond to her changes in position or the border policy

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Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and she'd really rather not do that.

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Speaker 1: And because all of the you know, expectations and niceties

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Speaker 1: of politics have been thrown out the window, they feel,

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Speaker 1: probably correctly, that she can get away with that at

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Speaker 1: least for some you know, extended.

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Speaker 2: Period of time. Let me read here this This just

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Speaker 2: came out this morning. I was telling you about this

438
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:45,280
Speaker 2: Politico playbook insight into Kamala's thinking around interviews. I talked

439
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 2: about how there's a debate within the campaign about who

440
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 2: to do it right now, Gail King is the prevailing

441
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,160
Speaker 2: person who's got an interviewer. Okay, the lady who goes

442
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,200
Speaker 2: on vacations with Obama. But I guess it is better

443
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: than nothing. What they currently say about interviews and others, though,

444
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,359
Speaker 2: is quote Harris herself has expressed disagreement with the view

445
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 2: that she needs to do an interview because quote she says,

446
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 2: I don't need to do some big, showy interviews. She

447
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 2: talks about how she did a previous sit down on

448
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 2: sixty Minutes with Foreign Policy and how some of the

449
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 2: exchanges were quote testing and they came away unhappy with

450
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 2: the experience. The other question, too, is whether they want

451
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,199
Speaker 2: to go back to lester Holt.

452
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 3: Some are would like, well, it would be a sign

453
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:27,960
Speaker 3: of strength.

454
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: The others are saying, well, especially Harris, she seems to

455
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 2: be actually quite insecure whenever it comes to interviews. I

456
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 2: think with good reasons. Lester Holt made her look like

457
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: an idiot. That was the famous you know, I've been

458
00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 2: to the border and he's like, no, you haven't, and

459
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,440
Speaker 2: she's like, well, we've been to the border. I mean

460
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 2: that probably is one of her single worst interviews. She's

461
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,040
Speaker 2: ever given. I believe that was the same weird abortion

462
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 2: answer that she gave as well. So some are like, well,

463
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,439
Speaker 2: you need to go back to prove herself, and she's like, no,

464
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,440
Speaker 2: I'm riding high right now. I don't think there's any

465
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,239
Speaker 2: reason that I should. So anyway, reading this gave some

466
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 2: insight into you. They are not feeling the pressure in

467
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,400
Speaker 2: any way that let's say, it's even become a media conversation.

468
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 2: I think a lot of media, unfortunately, you know, seems

469
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 2: to be generally okay with it. Yeah, anything before we

470
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 2: get to we did find, by the way, she has

471
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 2: done one interview with a TikTok girl, so we did

472
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,720
Speaker 2: find that, but which I missed apparently.

473
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 3: But just to show you how little news we got up,

474
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 3: I mean.

475
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,400
Speaker 1: Just I would say their assessment is she's a little

476
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 1: bit up. They like the press conversation that's going on.

477
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 1: They like, you know, the honeymoon and the pump coming

478
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 1: out of the DNC and all of those sorts of things.

479
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,359
Speaker 4: And if you sit for an interview, you risk changing that.

480
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: So, you know, Party of Democracy not really living up

481
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: to their word here in terms of the democratic process.

482
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: Right, So let's listen to that interview she gave with

483
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,479
Speaker 2: a TikToker at the DNC to date, the only interview

484
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 2: she has actually given.

485
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 9: Hi, guys, I am here with Vice President Kamala Harris

486
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 9: at the Democratic National Convention. I am so honored to

487
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 9: be here. Thank you so much for speaking with me.

488
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 9: And a little fun fact. My last name is Gopaulin.

489
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 9: I know, which is your mom's last Yes, it is.

490
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 9: And you know I grew up going to India in

491
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 9: the summers and I know you did that as well,

492
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 9: when you were used in the fall. Yeah, when it's

493
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,680
Speaker 9: not so hot, And I wanted to kind of hear

494
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 9: from you what your fondest like memories were from them.

495
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 10: Well, some of my fondest memories are with my grandfather.

496
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 9: You know. It's funny because Kamala Kamala in Indian is lotus, yes,

497
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 9: and Kamala in America's potus so lotus for potus uh

498
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,040
Speaker 9: so uh.

499
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: I didn't know i'd ever have to educate a fellow

500
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 2: Indian American there is no language called Indian. Despite the

501
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: many Hillbillies over the years who have asked me do

502
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 2: you speak Indian? And I had to inform them, actually,

503
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 2: there's no such.

504
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 3: Language as Indian.

505
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,359
Speaker 4: But okay, that's stuff there though, Yeah, very hard, a

506
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 4: lot of pressure.

507
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 3: Kamala, I have a lot in common. I also used

508
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 3: to it. I did not go in the fall.

509
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,240
Speaker 2: I actually had to go to school, so I don't

510
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 2: know how exactly her schedule worked out. But as most

511
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: Indian kids can attest you, they did go to India

512
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: over the summer.

513
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 3: But it's like, come on, what are we doing here?

514
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 3: That's the only interview this lady's given and he didn't even.

515
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 2: Know about it. I had somebody flagged it to me.

516
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: They're like, no, no, no, she has done an interview and

517
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 2: it's here. It's worse than you think, and seeing it

518
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 2: l's list. I mean, it's ridiculous.

519
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:16,920
Speaker 1: It's the equivalent of you know, Trump dooing the Adien

520
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 1: Ross podcast or you know.

521
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 2: He's not only doing that, right, I mean, he's also

522
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 2: done multiple press conferences.

523
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: He just didn't yes press availability.

524
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 4: That's definitely true.

525
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: He has allowed more press questions, but it's not like

526
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: he's subjected himself to a lot of difficult interviews either.

527
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 1: I just think I think that this is one of

528
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: the areas where losing the norms does suck. And you know,

529
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of what i Romy always talks about,

530
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: Like some of these processes, like the requirement to debate,

531
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 1: they have to be codified because increasingly these candidates, you know,

532
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: the downside of having so many different media platforms in

533
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 1: a way is that they can just pick and choose, Like,

534
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 1: I know this person is going to be super friendly

535
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: to me, and I can go out there and get

536
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: my face in the public and I don't really feel

537
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 1: like I have to sit down for interview that could

538
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 1: go poorly for me or be difficult for me or whatever.

539
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: So you see this, you know, not just at the

540
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 1: presidential level, you see this at all levels.

541
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 4: Of politics, and it is it truly is a loss.

542
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: It truly is a loss for democracy at a time

543
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 1: when you know there's a lot of discussion around such things.

544
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they both should do it.

545
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: I would be happier, you know, at the very least,

546
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: please please sit for an interview.

547
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: All right, guys, Unfortunately had some significant tech issues this morning,

548
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,479
Speaker 1: so we are going to have to reschedule that debate

549
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: on the gender gap with gen Z, but really looking

550
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,119
Speaker 1: forward to that one in the future.

551
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,439
Speaker 4: In the meantime, let's get to Trump's latest comments on abortion.

552
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 3: That's right, abortion.

553
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,159
Speaker 2: There has been just some absolutely bonkers movement by the

554
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: Trump campaign now so far. First started with the interview

555
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 2: that Vice presidential candidate JD. Vance gave to NBC News

556
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 2: is Meet the Press asked about a national abortion band. Now,

557
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 2: as Kristin Walker points out, Democrats multiple times said that

558
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 2: Trump would pass a national abortion JD Van says not

559
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: only would Trump not sign it, he would actually veto it.

560
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

561
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,120
Speaker 11: Democrats made the case this week and beyond this week

562
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,440
Speaker 11: that Donald Trump, if elected, will impose a federal ban

563
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 11: on abortion if he wins. Now, Donald Trump.

564
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 3: Says he won't.

565
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 11: But can you commit, Senator sitting right here with me

566
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 11: today that if you and Donald Trump are elected, that

567
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 11: you will not impose a federal ban on abortion.

568
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 12: I can absolutely commit that, Kristen. Donald Trump has been

569
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 12: as clear about that as possible. I think it's important

570
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 12: to step back and say, what is Donald Trump actually

571
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 12: said on the abortion question, and how is it different

572
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 12: from what Kamala Harrison the Democrats have said. Donald Trump

573
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 12: wants to end this cultural war over this particular topic.

574
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 12: If Camal excuse me, California wants to have a different

575
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 12: abortion policy from Ohio, then Ohio has to respect California

576
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 12: and California has to respect Ohio. Donald Trump's view is

577
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 12: that we want the individual states and their individual cultures

578
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 12: and their unique political sensibilities to make these decisions, because

579
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 12: we don't want to have a NonStop Fed rule conflict

580
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 12: over this issue. The federal government ought to be focused

581
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 12: on getting food prices down, getting housing prices down, issues

582
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 12: of course, where Kamala Harris has been a total disaster.

583
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 3: So I think Donald Trump is right. We want the

584
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 3: federal government.

585
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 12: To focus on these big economic and immigration questions. Let

586
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 12: the states figure out their own abortion policy.

587
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 11: Let me just follow up with you a little bit

588
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 11: on that point, because I've been talking to Republicans, including

589
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 11: Senator Lindsey Graham just last week, who've made it very

590
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 11: clear that if Donald Trump is elected, if you are elected,

591
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 11: they will continue to press this point. Senator Graham said

592
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 11: to me, I'm going to keep saying that there should

593
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 11: be a federal ban. If such a piece of legislation

594
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 11: landed on Donald Trump's desk, would he veto it, well.

595
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 12: I think you'd be very clear he would not support it,

596
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 12: I mean detail totally. Yeah, I mean, if you're not

597
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 12: supporting it, as the president of United States, you find it.

598
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 11: Really have veto a federal abortion ban.

599
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 8: I think he would. He said that explicitly, that.

600
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: He would actually and not said that previously. This is

601
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 2: the first time I've heard that he would veto it.

602
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 2: But that little exchange there, Crystal, is a real preview

603
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: of how they are on their back foot right now

604
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 2: on the issue of abortion. Let's put this one up

605
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 2: on the screen as well. Donald Trump himself from truth

606
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 2: Social quote, my administration will be great for women and

607
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 2: their reproductive rights. Reproductive rights, of course, not a phrase

608
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 2: you're usually used to hearing from a Republican presidential candidate.

609
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: So we now have the vice presidential GOP nominee who

610
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 2: says that they will veto a federal abortion band, even

611
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 2: though he previously has expressed at least some support for

612
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: that type of policy in the past, and then Trump

613
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: saying my administration will be great for quote, reproductive rights.

614
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: This demonstrates just how much the issue is going against

615
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 2: them at the campaign level, and I still to this

616
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 2: day think it is the single biggest existential threat to

617
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 2: their entire case of for victory.

618
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, and obviously JD.

619
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: Vance is a very difficult messenger on this given what

620
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 1: he said in his own personal faith and you know

621
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: all of that.

622
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 4: And the big problem for Trump is, look, end of.

623
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: The day, you're the guy who put the people on

624
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: the court that overturned Row versus Wade. So it's not

625
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: really a messaging bind that they can get themselves out of.

626
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: I think this is probably the best that they can

627
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 1: do is basically to say we promise, we promise, if

628
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 1: you're in California, we're not going to touch your rights

629
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: Mississippi women like good luck. It is what it is

630
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: within your state. It's probably the best they can do.

631
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: But I don't think there's any ameliorating what a damaging

632
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,840
Speaker 1: issue this is for them, and even more so with

633
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris now as the Democratic nominee. I will say

634
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: others appointed this ount that I know there's been some

635
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: freak out, certainly among pro life groups about.

636
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 4: I know we have some examples about et cetera.

637
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: But I do think that if it was any other

638
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,719
Speaker 1: Republican other than Donald Trump, who has this incredibly like

639
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: force of personality within the Republican Party, the Free count

640
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: would have been like a hundred times.

641
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 3: Great, one hundred thousand times.

642
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: Because it's not only him saying reproductive rights is so holy.

643
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: I mean that is pro choice language, period, end of story.

644
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: And the Republican Party is obviously always very careful and

645
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: strategic about the particular word choice and languages that they use,

646
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,480
Speaker 1: so for him to say reproductive rights is pretty astonishing.

647
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean he's able to get away not

648
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: only with things like that somewhat, but also with the

649
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: RNC platform, And he stripped a bunch of the pro

650
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: life language and also the anti LGBT language from the

651
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: Republican Party platform because he realizes both of these positions

652
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: are are difficult. And he himself, you know, he was

653
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: a New York liberal on social issues previously prior to

654
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: wanting to be the Republican Party nominee, so probably still

655
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: has some sympathy for those cultural positions, even if he

656
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: is the person who has most aggressively pushed forward the

657
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, the end of.

658
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: Roversus, Trump made a deal with the devil Trump. Everybody.

659
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: Look, I'm not going to question anybody's personal faith. As

660
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 2: you said, he previously was pro choice, Okay, became a Republican.

661
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 4: Gave money to plan, so fine, yeah.

662
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: I'll accept that on its merits.

663
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 2: But the thing is, though, is that he made a

664
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 2: deal with the evangelicals to win the twenty sixteen nomination

665
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 2: and the election by choosing Vice President Pence. That was

666
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 2: a smart electoral play. They did not in a million

667
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: years dream that they would appoint three Supreme Court justices

668
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 2: who would then overturn rovers has weighed in such a

669
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 2: quick turnaround. And then I have noted this from day one,

670
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: from the day that Donald Trump launched his presidential campaign.

671
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: I believe we did a live stream here on the show,

672
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: and I remember the first thing I said. I go,

673
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 2: I might be wrong, but I don't think he said

674
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: the word abortion once. I don't think he even bragged

675
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 2: about Roe versus.

676
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 3: Wait.

677
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 2: Why because Trump is actually a good politician and he

678
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 2: understands that this is a complete loser for Republicans. And

679
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 2: in fact, I would say this is evidence of how

680
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: he can be a moderating force when he wants to be.

681
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: In terms of his rhetoric, he uses the cult of

682
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: personality to force all these Republicans who for years have

683
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 2: been calling Democrats like genocidal baby terrorists or whatever, and

684
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,760
Speaker 2: he's like, no, actually, we're reproductive rights now, and everyone's like, oh,

685
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: you know, Mike Lee and others who are.

686
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: Like, oh, okay, you got it.

687
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 2: But this, though, is the power, the political power of Trump.

688
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 2: You also see a huge freak out amongst a lot

689
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 2: of pro life activists and others. Let's put this up

690
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 2: there on the screen, just as an example, seth Dylan

691
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: Babylon B So my administration will be indistinguishable from a Democrats.

692
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: You know, this is particularly laughable to me, Crystal, because

693
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: really it's like my administration can be indistinguished from Democrats.

694
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: It's like, guys, not only is he the person who

695
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: appointed the justices that overturned ROVERSUS wide. There is all

696
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: kinds of federal power, as the Democrats often talk about,

697
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: through the help of Human Services FDA, through what I forget,

698
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: the High Amendment. There's a million different ways that you're

699
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 2: substantively different. But I mean, the pro life activists are

700
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: so used to getting catered and pampered by the entire

701
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: Republican Party they don't know what it's like to just

702
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 2: be another coalitional group.

703
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 3: And in fact, this time around, you're the least.

704
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: Popular coalitional group in the entire Republican Party. So again,

705
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: as pro choice person, I'm actually quite happy about this because,

706
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 2: I mean, frankly, these are these people are like defund

707
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: the police activists, except what fifty thousand times more powerful

708
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: in terms of their hold on the Republican Party. I mean,

709
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 2: I see folks out there defending this IVF legislation out

710
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: of Alabama. They're out there like talking about how Trump

711
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: and the FDA should prosecute people for abortion pill through

712
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: the mail.

713
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 3: I'm are you out of your goddamn minds?

714
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: Just say, politically right, there's a lot of unpopular political positions.

715
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: I hate weed.

716
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: Do you think I'm gonna be like my candidate needs

717
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: to endorse, you know, at being against marijuana.

718
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 3: No, I'm not an idiot, Okay.

719
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: I don't know why is it that compromise is so

720
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 2: difficult for a lot of these for a lot of

721
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: these folks, But I think it's largely that forty five

722
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: years of you know, of political coalition wise, they have

723
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: been catered to, and for the first time in their lives,

724
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: they're like, oh wait, we're actually deeply unpopular.

725
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 13: You know.

726
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: I actually have a lot of sympathy for them, even

727
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: though obviously I don't.

728
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 4: I don't share the position.

729
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: I'm much more sympathetic to where they're coming from than

730
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: New York because they're looking at this and like, yeah,

731
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: for forty years, these politicians have been telling us they

732
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: agree with us that abortion is murder and that this

733
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: is like a holocaust of babies, and that this is

734
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: a genocide of babies.

735
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: They claim they agreed with us.

736
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,080
Speaker 1: And now you're like, yeah, but it's fine to murder

737
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: babies in California, No, biggie, you know, if Californians want

738
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: to murder babies, Okay, So if you view this as

739
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: like a truly moral core issue, let's actually put the

740
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: next set deal and tweet up on the screen. Because

741
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: he elaborated his view here in a way that again

742
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: I don't agree with. But it is sort of cowardly

743
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: to be, like, you know, on an issue that has

744
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: such moral weight, to say that it's okay in one

745
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: place an the other. Like, for example, as a pro

746
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: choice person, I don't find it acceptable that women in

747
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: Mississippi or Alabama or another red state don't have the

748
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: same rights as a woman in California. And so you know,

749
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: from Seth Dillon, this is a much more consistent philosophical

750
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: position that he's elucidating here. He says, when considering whether

751
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: an issue should be decided by individual states or whether

752
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: it should be universally prohibited, the key question is whether

753
00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: the issue involves fundamental human rights. At one point, slavery

754
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: was left of the states. Some states permitted it while

755
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: others did not. That outcome was not peace and harmony,

756
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: but civil war. Eventually, slavery was recognized as a violation

757
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 1: of human rights. He goes on to say, abortion, like slavery,

758
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: is a crime against humanity.

759
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 4: It devalues and dehumanizes.

760
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 1: It treats a certain subset of human individuals as less

761
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: than to justify stripping away the rights and dignity for

762
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: the benefit of another. Just as the moral atrocity of

763
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: slavery could not be left to the discretion of individual states,

764
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: neither should abortion. It doesn't matter how popular it is

765
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: with suburban women. Obviously, I have the polar opposite view

766
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 1: of this right. I think, you know, women being able

767
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: to have their own choices and what we've seen in

768
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,919
Speaker 1: the horrors of the post roar landscape, Like I don't

769
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: think that women in Mississippi should be allowed to bleed

770
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: out in a parking lot, waiting for their life to

771
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: actually be technically deemed by a doctor who's afraid of

772
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: being prosecuted at risk. I don't think women should be surveiled,

773
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, if they use a menstrual tracking app. I

774
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: don't think they should be surveiled and have that data

775
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: given to police to track whether they cross straight state

776
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: lines to get an abortion. I think that should be nationwide.

777
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: His position here is ideologically much more morally consistent than

778
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: the Yes, we think it's fine to murder babies in

779
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: California but not in the Mississippi line. But the problem is,

780
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: and again as a leftist, I very much sympathize with

781
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: the position that they're in.

782
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,879
Speaker 4: Where else are you going to go?

783
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

784
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: Where else are you going to go?

785
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: And so that's why Trump feels perfectly at ease throwing

786
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 1: them completely under the bus, which he has done absolutely

787
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 1: at this point, because he knows at the end of

788
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: the day, they're not going to vote for Democrats, They're

789
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: going to vote for him. And if he gets more

790
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: Supreme Court choice picks, he's probably going to put more

791
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: people on the bench who back up bamy Cony, Barrett

792
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: at all.

793
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: But then that's why the slavery example is it's like, okay, dude,

794
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: believe that, then you are actually saying you should fight

795
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: a civil war.

796
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: So where are you? Where's your arms?

797
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 2: Like if you believe that, If you believe that, then

798
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 2: you would support which they always say they don't support

799
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: violence and all this other stuff. No, I mean that

800
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 2: the logical history and reading of all that John Brown

801
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: and Harper's very raid, et cetera. Then act like it,

802
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 2: but they don't, okay. And that's what I'm talking about,

803
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: is that they morally are always grand standing, but then

804
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: politically have been willing to play ball in the past, like,

805
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 2: for example, going with somebody like Donald Trump, a literal

806
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: New York Liberal, to work within the political process to

807
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: achieve their aims. So when they want to achieve something

808
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: which is in their aims, and they're very willing to

809
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: do compromise, but whenever somebody goes against it, then they're

810
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 2: not willing to do a compromise. And that is why

811
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,879
Speaker 2: it annoys the crap out of me, is because they

812
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 2: acted like a normal political movement for forty something years

813
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: to exert political power, compromising with various different candidates et cetera,

814
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: and working within the system, and then when it goes

815
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 2: against them on popular opinion, now all of a sudden

816
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 2: it's the moral genocide, etc.

817
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 3: It's like, well, you got to pick one, Okay.

818
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 2: And that's why I don't have a lot of sympathy

819
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: because whenever you are but you know, again, like then

820
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: you should if it's slavery, then you should be acting

821
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 2: like it, but you're not. It's like you're living your

822
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: life in a normal way, which, by the way, is

823
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 2: how most people dealt with slavery and ultimately the way

824
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: that it was accomplished with both through civil war and

825
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 2: through the political process.

826
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 3: So that's actually just how.

827
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 2: Living in a literal society works in a multi ethnic

828
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: homogenous or a multi ethnic heterogeneous society with various different

829
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: political coalitional interests. So I don't have a lot of

830
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: sympathy for that rhetoric because if it was true, they

831
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: would be acting totally differently.

832
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's instructive to think about how they ended up

833
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: with Mike Pence on the ticket, which was their pick, yeah,

834
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 1: and how they ended up with these particular Supreme Court

835
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: justices who were ideologically completely committed to overturning ro Versus Wade,

836
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: which of course they ultimately did. And that's because at

837
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: the time time Trump genuinely feared that they may not

838
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: vote for him. He no longer fears that, and he

839
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: didn't have to go through a real primary process when

840
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: you call the Republican primary, one didn't exist, and like

841
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: on the Democratic side, but he didn't participate in the debates,

842
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,800
Speaker 1: so he basically sort of remained above that primary process

843
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: and wasn't subjected to you remember some of the back

844
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: and forth between like Ron DeSantis and Nikki Haley on

845
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: the stage about how they be on abortion, etc.

846
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 4: Etc.

847
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: He didn't have to go through that process, didn't have

848
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: to make any promises to anyone about anything. And so

849
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: now he realizes that this is the most unpopular part

850
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 1: of the Republican Party platform, especially postro Versus way, because

851
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: that's the other thing the numbers have shifted against, because

852
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,719
Speaker 1: people have reckoned with what this reality actually means. And

853
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: so he's doing everything he can to cut his losses here.

854
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: But you know, I guess I say I have more

855
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: sympathy for them, because again, people like Donald Trump, people

856
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 1: like certainly Mike Powell, of these Republicans who you know,

857
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: made raised so much money and garnered so much support,

858
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: and you know, became so famous in this movement claiming

859
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 1: that they view things the way that Seth Dylan lays

860
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: out here, Like, at the end of the day, it

861
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: turns out to be completely hollow, which the pro life

862
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: movement I think long.

863
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 4: Suspected that that was the case.

864
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: But I see it much more as the moment that

865
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: this became politically inconvenient for the Republican Party. They you know,

866
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: all the state of principles of the past suddenly are

867
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: just completely wiped clean. And you know, again on the

868
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: political calculus, I don't think that this is really going

869
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris is going to be favored on abortion rights,

870
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: period of an end of story. If this election is

871
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: about abortion rights, she's going to win massively. Right, It's

872
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: not going to be even particularly close. The thing that

873
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: keeps him in it, obviously is that there are a

874
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: host of other issues that people also obviously very very

875
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: concerned about. But this has been a really energizing factor

876
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,600
Speaker 1: on the Democratic side. But yeah, there's there's no fear

877
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,800
Speaker 1: from Donald Trump that this coalition is going to go elsewhere.

878
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: The Democratic Party is one hundred percent pro choice. At

879
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 1: this point, there is no real third party candidate that's

880
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: just running on a like I'm pro life, that's my thing,

881
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: Like vote for me if your protest vote that isn't

882
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: doesn't exist. So they have nowhere else to go, and

883
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: probably even the most stridently pro life person has an

884
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: other set of issues that are more likely to align

885
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump and the Republican Party.

886
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 4: So yeah, he feels like he can just throw them under.

887
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: The bus, even in spite of the fact that back

888
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: when he was trying to win their vote originally in

889
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, he was saying, like, you know, we should

890
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: criminalize the women, and really trying to position himself as

891
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: being very, very pro life when it was not.

892
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 3: Really I understand what you're saying.

893
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, first of all, I spent too much

894
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 2: of my childhood getting preached at by evangelical so I

895
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: find them especially triggering on this. But it just calms

896
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 2: down to this, they don't want to reckon with the fact,

897
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 2: with this most basic insight, we live in a society.

898
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:57,399
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that the funny thing is the reason. And

899
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: again this is why I don't believe them when ever

900
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 2: theyre all this moral grandsonaing language. For years, they let

901
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: Republicans adopt the politically popular message of leave it to

902
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 2: the States, because so no, no, but they did. That

903
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: was hw That was the message from him. That was

904
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 2: George W.

905
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 3: Bus.

906
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: It was a lot of heartbeat build There was a

907
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: lot of It was easier for Republicans to talk about

908
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: this when it was theoretical, yes, and they were much

909
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: more strident. And you know, they would go to these

910
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: like confabs that were all about you know, folks something religious, right, whatever,

911
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: and they would say very extreme things and not all

912
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 1: of them right, not one hundred percent, but many of them.

913
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: Fair. Yeah.

914
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: And so now with when Trump is like, we're great

915
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: for reproductive rights, you don't hear even those people who

916
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: really made their whole identity about being associated with this issue,

917
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: you don't hear a damn peep out of them.

918
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 3: Fair enough.

919
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: But more, what I'm saying is, oh, for years, why

920
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 2: was it politically acceptable to con the American people into

921
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 2: believing that the Republican Party said leave it to the states.

922
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: But then immediately after row Mike Pensis like, no, we

923
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 2: didn't mean leave it to the states.

924
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 3: We actually met we.

925
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 2: Want a national abortion man you're like, well, hold on

926
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 2: a second. Also, a friend pointed out to me they

927
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: never would have said leave it to the states if

928
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: they knew that America would become ten x more secular

929
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 2: in the decade period of the twenty tens. And then actually,

930
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 2: when you do leave it to the states, even hard

931
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 2: red states are like, yeah.

932
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: We're good.

933
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: Actually we're going to keep the Row consensus. And then second,

934
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: here's another thing. Again, we live in a democratic system.

935
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: We had a Republican primary. There were multiple candidates in

936
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 2: that race, Ron DeSantis amongst them, who signed a heartbeat bill.

937
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: He lost, So what do you want you know, it's like,

938
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: if you're so good, you should have voted for him,

939
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 2: but you didn't. You probt most of you. Data tells

940
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 2: us you voted for Donald Trump. Well what do you

941
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 2: want to say the guy who is transactional on all

942
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 2: his political relationships. So, you know, okay, if you're so powerful,

943
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 2: then you should go elect somebody who actually agrees with

944
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 2: you in the Republican Party. Here even jd who got

945
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: the SBA list endorsement. I mean, he's not an idiot.

946
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 3: You know. You can you can read a poll and

947
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 3: you can just say.

948
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: All right, if we want to win, there's certain things

949
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 2: that we're just going to have to say or we're

950
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: gonna have to change our position on. And so the

951
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: point is is that and this is always a problem

952
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 2: with taking moral issues and trying to blend them with

953
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 2: a democratic society. And I don't know why it is

954
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 2: acceptable for every other group in all of politics, people

955
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: like me don't like weed or hold other very unpopular

956
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 2: positions who just sometimes have to resign it and say,

957
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 2: you know what, public doesn't agree with me on it,

958
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 2: so be it.

959
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 3: Why is that so different?

960
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 4: Because again, yeah, I feel weird.

961
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: Are defending the pro life is it because I don't

962
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: agree with that? But I see it almost in the

963
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 1: in the total reverse, which is they see it as

964
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: like a core civil right and those there's a reason

965
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 1: we have a constitutional, a constitution, and we have certain

966
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: core rights that are protected that are supposed to be

967
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: above and beyond the slings and arrows of just you know,

968
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: not just but of a democratic popularity contest. And so

969
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 1: if you view it through that lens, then you're like, no,

970
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 1: this is core to me. I believe this is like

971
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 1: a civil rights type of issue. And no, I don't

972
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: think we should be voting in Mississippi about whether or

973
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 1: not black people should have rights that should be something

974
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: that's enshrine and that's guaranteed. I relate to that because

975
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: I feel that way certainly about the pro choice position.

976
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: I don't think we should be voting on whether women

977
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: in Texas should be able to, you know, be forced

978
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: to bleed out in the parking lot in order to

979
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: obtain a medically necessary abortion. I don't think we should

980
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,320
Speaker 1: be voting on whether that young woman in Kentucky should

981
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,800
Speaker 1: be forced to bear her step dad's baby who raped

982
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,439
Speaker 1: her when she was twelve years old. I don't think

983
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 1: that these things should be up for a popular democratic party,

984
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: democratic process debate. And so I see where they're coming from,

985
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: even as I disagree, because they're like you all claimed.

986
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: And I know there was some rhetoric about leave it

987
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: to the states, blah blah blah, but the overwhelming message

988
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: from the Republican Party was that abortion is a moral

989
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: wrong period, end of story. Remember that ladies name who

990
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: did the whole on the debate stage, fury.

991
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: Know what was her name, carl Carlina.

992
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: She did the whole thing on the debate stage about

993
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: the the you know it's a fake video, but anyway,

994
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: about the babies and they're being torn down and the

995
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: fetuses torn apart. They painted this as a visceral, moral,

996
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:23,359
Speaker 1: civil rights type issue, and so yeah, I think it

997
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 1: is actually shows a lot more character the people like

998
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: Seth Dylan who were saying, no, you claimed that this

999
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: was a you know, akin to like slavery, akin to

1000
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: a genocide, akin to a holocaust, and then the minute

1001
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: it is politically inconvenient for you, you just wave your hands

1002
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: and move off of that rhetoric completely. They're like, yeah,

1003
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: we didn't really mean that. We just you know, California,

1004
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: do your thing. We don't really care reproductive rights, et cetera,

1005
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 1: et cetera. So of Mike Pence as an example, I

1006
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: was never maybe this is because I always, you know, suspected,

1007
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: like I was listening to their rhetoric about how this

1008
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: is moral wrong. I never I never thought, oh, they

1009
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 1: just want to leave it to the states. I thought, no,

1010
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: they want this to be banned everywhere, because that's what

1011
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 1: their rhetoric indicated. Mike Pence was very consistent on that.

1012
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: You know, Mike Pence is an abortion hardliner and always

1013
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: has been. So I do think it's unprincipled. I do

1014
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: think it exposes that like they didn't they didn't.

1015
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 4: Really need it.

1016
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 1: These politicians didn't really mean it, and they're more committed

1017
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: to the you know, the personality of Donald Trump and

1018
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: whatever than they are to what they previously framed as

1019
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: a core moral issue.

1020
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: Fair Enough, I would just say, hey, you know what

1021
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,760
Speaker 2: does the civil rights movement teach us? Throughout the nineteen

1022
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 2: fifties when civil rights was very unpopular, you think the

1023
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 2: civil rights people were just like, oh, actually we're going

1024
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 2: to morally grandstand or are we going to continue to

1025
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: work through the democratic system and eventually accomplish our goals.

1026
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: So you guys got what you wanted, that's the thing.

1027
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: For years versus wad Roe versus Wade Roight, you literally

1028
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 2: got what she wanted.

1029
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 3: But apparently that's not enough.

1030
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 2: So, you know, I just have a lot less sympathy

1031
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: for all of these, like purity tasks and others, where

1032
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 2: if you were to ask him about any other issue,

1033
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 2: they would say exactly what I said, But for this one.

1034
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I do get it right, me eating

1035
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 2: weed is not the same. But in a democratic system

1036
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 2: which is not supposed to consider religiosity. Then yeah, actually,

1037
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 2: you know, it does look like that. So they you know,

1038
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, you have to contend

1039
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: in the American political system. This is something which I

1040
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 2: think they would lecture to any leftists who were to

1041
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: have the same similar like moral arguments about defund the

1042
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: police or any other national argument.

1043
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, there you go, Yeah, exactly.

1044
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,839
Speaker 4: And I guarantee that's part of why I'm also sympathetic.

1045
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,439
Speaker 3: But they would have a different view of that.

1046
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,439
Speaker 1: Trump has them between a rock and a hard place,

1047
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 1: and he knows that, like they're checkmated, they have nowhere

1048
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: else to go, and so he knows they're going to

1049
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: suck it up and vote for him. And Democratic Party

1050
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: knows that most of the you know, pro pales sign activists,

1051
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: the end of the day.

1052
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 4: They're going to vote for him because Trump is gonna

1053
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 4: be worse.

1054
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like a it's like a kind of

1055
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: a kind of a situation that they're in. So I

1056
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: do have empathy for them. I did not expect to

1057
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: have this show be me going to the Matt defending

1058
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: set Dylan of the Babylon b and Sager going after him,

1059
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: But I guess that's what we listen, you know, it

1060
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: makes the show interesting.

1061
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 3: That's what makes the show interesting.

1062
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 2: And I think this is probably I think we have

1063
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: not a huge pro life audience, but there's some people

1064
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 2: in here. I would just ask you know that you

1065
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: consider everything we talked about here, so because I think

1066
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: at the very least, there are going to be a

1067
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: lot of conversations like this, and you know, amongst normal

1068
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 2: folks who I know who don't engage with the political

1069
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 2: process at all, you know, abortion is a noose around

1070
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 2: the neck of Republican Party.

1071
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 3: They just they have and I said it, and it

1072
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,879
Speaker 3: was so that's another thing.

1073
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 2: These people attacked me so much after o versus Wade,

1074
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: when I was.

1075
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 3: Like, hey, there's a problem. It's a problem.

1076
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 2: And then after twenty twenty two they all wanted to

1077
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,640
Speaker 2: retcon the losses as it was just Trump's fault and

1078
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: it was stopped the steal.

1079
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's not just stop this day.

1080
00:48:58,440 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 13: Ye.

1081
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 3: No, it was abortion, Ok.

1082
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: It was the whole picture of being a French extremist

1083
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: party and all of those things went together. And to

1084
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: your point about you know, I mean, Trump has no

1085
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: one to blame but himself for this yes, he is

1086
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: the one who put those people all on the court.

1087
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 1: He ran on it, he did it, and there you go.

1088
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: So yes, you can say the words reproductive rights all

1089
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: you want. No one is going to trust you or

1090
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: any other Republican Party member with their.

1091
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 4: Reproductive rights not happening.

1092
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So some good news here and something Soccer and

1093
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: I no doubt I think agree on. Let's put this

1094
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: stuff on the screen. So we've talked about this rent

1095
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: collusion price fixing algorithm that has been used by real

1096
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: It's this software company called real Page.

1097
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 4: It's basically, you know, i'll get into.

1098
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: A little bit of the technical details, but they go

1099
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 1: into a city, they have many of the land larns

1100
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: in the city feed in their data about what they're

1101
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,760
Speaker 1: renting their apartments out for, and then the algorithm uses

1102
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 1: that data to recommend and basically to pretty much force

1103
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: on these different landlords the optimal highest rent price. And

1104
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: so you know, the collusion isn't happening directly in person.

1105
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: It's happening through like you know, the back door of

1106
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 1: this algorithm. But it's happening nonetheless. And so we've seen

1107
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: indications that this may happen. Now we have the official

1108
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: announcement that the Justice Department could, together with the Attorney's

1109
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: General of North Carolina, California and Colorado, Connecticut, Minnesota, Oregon, Tennessee,

1110
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: and Washington, filed a civil antitrust lawsuit today against real

1111
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 1: Page Incorporated for its unlawful scheme to decrease competition among

1112
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: landlords in apartment pricing and to monopolize the market for

1113
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: commercial revenue management software that landlords use to price apartments.

1114
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 1: Real Page is alleged conduct deprives renters of the benefits

1115
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: of competition on apartment leasing terms and harms millions of Americans.

1116
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 4: I just want to.

1117
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: Read a little bit of what the Attorney General and

1118
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: Deputy Attorney General had to say about this, because I

1119
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 1: actually thought that they framed this really well. Merret Garland

1120
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: said Americans should not have to pay more in rent

1121
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,280
Speaker 1: because a company has found a new way to scheme

1122
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 1: with landlords to break the law. We allege real pages

1123
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: pricing algorithm enables landlords to share confidential, competitively sensitive information

1124
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: and align their rents using software. As the sharing mechanism

1125
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: does not immunize the scheme from Sherman Act liability, and

1126
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 1: the Justice Department will continue to aggressively enforce the anti

1127
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: trust laws and protect the American people from those who

1128
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: violate them. The Deputy Attorney General added, training machine to

1129
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,840
Speaker 1: break the law is still breaking the law. Today's action

1130
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: makes clear that we will use all our legal tools

1131
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:51,760
Speaker 1: to ensure accountability for technology fueled anti competitive conduct. Kudos

1132
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: to them for bringing the suit. Kudos to all the

1133
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: states that are involved here. It's nice to see. I'm

1134
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,279
Speaker 1: not sure if the Attorney General of North Carolina is

1135
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 1: a D or an. Most of them are Democratic states,

1136
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 1: but you've got Tennessee in there too, which is also

1137
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 1: encouraging to see because this is part of what has

1138
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:12,720
Speaker 1: helped to drive rent increases based on this algorithm saga.

1139
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: They have even found that these apartments can make more

1140
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: money if they hold some of their rentals off the market.

1141
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: They basically charge too high of a price for them

1142
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: to lease out all of their apartments, but they found that,

1143
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: you know, marshally to be more beneficial. So not only

1144
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: are you jacking up rents, you're also effectively taking some

1145
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 1: rental stock off of the market, and it's having increasingly

1146
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: devastating impacts on you know, specific rental markets where this

1147
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:41,320
Speaker 1: has really taken hold around.

1148
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 2: Ironically, this is probably the most net benefit to the

1149
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: Red States, and specifically to a lot of these swing states.

1150
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 3: So I talk a lot about here about population.

1151
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 2: Inflows, and part of the reason Red states are actually

1152
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 2: flourishing right now is not just be or I guess

1153
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 2: purplish states places like Georgia, North Carolina, Tech obviously more

1154
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 2: of a Red state, is because they don't actually have

1155
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: a lot of housing regulation on their books in the

1156
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 2: same way, so you're allowed to build a ton of housing.

1157
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: The problem, though, is that you have huge influxes of

1158
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 2: people that are coming in and part of the not

1159
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 2: only natural rent to increase is happening, it's that a

1160
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 2: lot of the construction is specifically financed by these large

1161
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 2: corporate landlords that own these gigantic you know, the glass buildings.

1162
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 2: Anybody who's been in a downtown area of Nashville and

1163
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 2: Austin or any of these North Carolina anywhere roley knows

1164
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. Well, those apartment buildings then are

1165
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,799
Speaker 2: specifically the ones who are using these types of algorithms,

1166
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: and then that is also being backpacked on by a

1167
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 2: lot of the other landlords that are in the area

1168
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: and I mean, at a certain point, you can't fault

1169
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: a landlord.

1170
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 3: I guess we're wanting to have higher price, but what

1171
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 3: you can fall islard. Look, here's my one. There are

1172
00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:55,440
Speaker 3: most a lot of landlords.

1173
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 4: These ones we're talking about here, not these ones.

1174
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,280
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just saying, like a lot of landlord horns

1175
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 2: are actually just people who own like one extra property.

1176
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1177
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 2: It's the tail end are the real problem, and they're

1178
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: the ones who set up all of this like private

1179
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 2: equity machinations that make everybody else have a worse name.

1180
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 2: But the point really is just that this is in

1181
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 2: the general interest of the government because in this particular case,

1182
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,879
Speaker 2: especially Red states and others, if you want to keep

1183
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: that population inflow coming. For example, Arizona, North Carolina, and

1184
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 2: Texas are the three places where you see young people

1185
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,799
Speaker 2: specifically coming and really flourishing. Actually because of the comparative

1186
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 2: income versus housing ratio, you cannot let the same thing

1187
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 2: happen there that happened in New York, DC, Chicago, Los Angeles.

1188
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 2: So this is genuinely in their best interests. And because

1189
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the things I was really

1190
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: heartened by from work from home is we have to

1191
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,800
Speaker 2: make sure that other areas of the country are also

1192
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 2: dynamic and attractive to people who are young, and so

1193
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 2: that you don't just get like super majority concentrations of

1194
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 2: like the best than the brightest quote unquote who flocked

1195
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,319
Speaker 2: to these places. Because the other problem is for every

1196
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 2: person who makes it in DC, there are nine or

1197
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: ten others who are saddled with two hundred grand is

1198
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 2: student loan debt and barely trucking along and able to

1199
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 2: make rent. And those are the people really who are

1200
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 2: the most preyed upon by this system.

1201
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's absolutely right, and so it's one hundred

1202
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 1: percent in states interests. It's in the interests of certainly

1203
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: the consumers renters. But we also have to acknowledge these

1204
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: private equity companies that own some of these firms, or

1205
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: the giant corporate landlord management companies like these are major

1206
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: political figures who throw a lot of money around in

1207
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 1: politics as well. So that's why there's no guarantee that

1208
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: even though you look at this and you're like, of

1209
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 1: course makes all the sense in the world, there's no

1210
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,439
Speaker 1: guarantee that something like this would ultimately happen. Let's get

1211
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 1: forward to D three just to show you again a

1212
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: little bit of the impact here. Credit is always to

1213
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:56,359
Speaker 1: a friend, Matt Stoler, who runs the big Subtac and

1214
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: does the fantastic job covering these types of competition issues

1215
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: and actions by the federal government previously when it was

1216
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: starting to look like actually the FBI rated one of

1217
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,440
Speaker 1: these big corporate landlords, something we covered and took note

1218
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: of on the show.

1219
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,319
Speaker 4: This is the Atlanta.

1220
00:56:13,080 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 1: Area and all of these dots on the map are

1221
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: properties that are using this Real Page software. So again

1222
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 1: it's basically just a fancy collusion scheme that uses an

1223
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,440
Speaker 1: algorithm rather than in person price fixing to get the

1224
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 1: job done and is extremely sophisticated, so you can see

1225
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: how widespread in certain markets are.

1226
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 4: And to your point, obviously Atlanta is kind.

1227
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: Of politically important right now, so you know, makes sense

1228
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 1: that Democrats would want to show some action with regard

1229
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: to taking on the high cost of housing and rent.

1230
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris mentioned Real Page as well. I don't know

1231
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 1: if she used the name in particular, but she referenced

1232
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 1: this algorithmic price fixing and rental collusion. Put D two

1233
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,920
Speaker 1: up on the screen just in terms of some of

1234
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: the specifics from the complaint that we can get into

1235
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,759
Speaker 1: here that we're noteworthy. So this is Lindsay Owens on

1236
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: Twitter says, pricing advisors and sure landlords are taking the

1237
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: high prices. The computer spits out and escalates cases where

1238
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 1: landlords aren't obeying the machine, then calls them into the

1239
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,600
Speaker 1: principal's office to give them a refresher on goals. So

1240
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: just pause here for a second before we go to

1241
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: the next one. What she's underscoring here is, yes, this

1242
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 1: was algorithmic, but also there were a lot of human

1243
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: beings involved here in enforcing the collusion level pricing. Because

1244
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: one of the quote unquote problems that the landlords and

1245
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, real page face is when you have actual

1246
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 1: human beings who we're thinking about, you know, whoever it

1247
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,440
Speaker 1: is that single mom in that apartment struggling to afford rent,

1248
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 1: they may get a little soft hearted and not want

1249
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: to do the whole rental price increase that the computer

1250
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: system is telling them they should do. So they have

1251
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: all of these in person mechanisms to pressure landlords to

1252
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: guarantee that they are taking those high prices and gouging

1253
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 1: their own customers as much as possible. Go and put

1254
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 1: the next piece up on the screen. She gives another

1255
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: example here. She says, in addition, a team of staff

1256
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,959
Speaker 1: makes tens of thousands of calls to landlords every month

1257
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: to collect non public, competitively sensitive information including occupancy rates, prices,

1258
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: floor plan info, and concessions, lease terms and more. So, again,

1259
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: it's not just the machine, these are real human beings

1260
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,920
Speaker 1: or gathering that data to be able to more effectively collude.

1261
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 4: Put the next piece up on the screen. She says.

1262
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 1: It takes a lot of elbow grease to execute a

1263
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 1: price fixing conspiracy at this scale. One thousand surely played

1264
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 1: a role, but the algorithm is also more sinister than

1265
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: I accepted expected.

1266
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 4: The software is designed.

1267
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 1: With auto accept features to ensure landlords adopt pricing recommendations.

1268
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: So again, to take any sort of like human compassion

1269
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 1: out of the equation, you can just check the auto

1270
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,959
Speaker 1: accept box and then the high prices are auditutomatically put

1271
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: into action without any sort of human being having to

1272
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 1: feel bad about what they're doing to these consumers. Put

1273
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: the next piece up on the screen.

1274
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 4: She says.

1275
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: It also has a hard floor to ensure prices don't

1276
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,240
Speaker 1: drop too low. Sold out mode that recommends the maximum

1277
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 1: rent charge by properties competitors even if the floor plans

1278
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: previous price is far lower. And revenue protection mode to

1279
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:28,280
Speaker 1: ensure prices don't dip in downturns so effectively. Again that

1280
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,480
Speaker 1: she goes on a little bit from there, but those

1281
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: are some of the key points, you know, effectively putting

1282
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: in mechanisms to make sure that rental prices aren't actually

1283
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:42,200
Speaker 1: responsive really to markets, that they maintain high prices even

1284
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: if you have a market dip that ordinarily would make

1285
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: it so that rental prices war were more affordable. And

1286
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you look at the prices in these

1287
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 1: metro areas where real page has been a factor, you

1288
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: can see that real page has accounted for a significant

1289
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:02,560
Speaker 1: portion of rental price hikes. That is, you know, this

1290
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 1: is housing is one of the key issues that we

1291
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: hear over and over and over again that clearly, you know,

1292
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris has realized this is also a problem, and

1293
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: that's why she's attaching some political significance to it as well,

1294
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: because what could be more core to that aspiration to

1295
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 1: live a secure middle class life than just being able

1296
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: to afford a decent home, be able to make rent

1297
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: in a decent apartment building and not be gouged through

1298
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: the teeth every time they have a chance to hike

1299
01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: rental prices.

1300
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually it's very interesting, and you know, if

1301
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,919
Speaker 2: she ran on it more, she'd be better off. There's

1302
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:37,680
Speaker 2: some talk of it, I think in some of the

1303
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,040
Speaker 2: more recent ads, but there's a lot of questions too

1304
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 2: about who she would even have in her admin. I mean,

1305
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 2: people like Tony West, her brother in law and top advisor,

1306
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,439
Speaker 2: would definitely not be you know, for this stuff, because

1307
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 2: that's the irony is that a lot of these startups

1308
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,840
Speaker 2: and other places in Silicon Valley rightfully pitch themselves because

1309
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 2: they're like, you know, you can actually make a lot

1310
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: of money in terms of fees. So she does remain

1311
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 2: very would I say very like almost like a blank slate.

1312
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 2: You could see almost anything that you want to see

1313
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 2: in terms of what her housing policy.

1314
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: One of the things that was really encouraging is she

1315
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: brought on Brian Deese, who has been one of the

1316
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 1: people in the Biden administration who has been most aggressive

1317
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: about this sort of like competition policy, and that was

1318
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: something that you know, the Matt Sotellers of the world

1319
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: and David Dan etc. Really took hard in because certainly

1320
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 1: Tony West is the troubling figure in the other direction.

1321
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:29,520
Speaker 1: But Brian Dees she brought on as an economic advisor

1322
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: and like I said, has been one of the best

1323
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 1: actors in the Biden administration. So that was seen as

1324
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:36,040
Speaker 1: a really encouraging sign, as was of course picking Tim

1325
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: Walls as Vice president in terms of the agenda that

1326
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: he's pushed forward in the state of Minnesota. So you know,

1327
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:44,120
Speaker 1: she has leaned into In the economic speech she gave,

1328
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,360
Speaker 1: she leaned into housing affordability, and both on the side

1329
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 1: of like the competition piece, which is important, and also

1330
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: the building more piece, which is also important. I think

1331
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 1: you have to put those two pieces together. Will she

1332
01:01:56,320 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 1: actually do it, that's another question, great question, That's another question.

1333
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and get to some of the polling

1334
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: around Kama's economic agenda, which has been really interesting because

1335
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: after she announced some of these things, there was an

1336
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:15,160
Speaker 1: entire mainstream economists freak out, in particular about her announcement

1337
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 1: regarding a price gouging ban. Now, just to be clear,

1338
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: first of all, she was very vague, which I don't appreciate.

1339
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 4: I would like to know more.

1340
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: Specifics about what she actually means here, but she seems

1341
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 1: to be modeling this after some Elizabeth Warren fact legislation,

1342
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,240
Speaker 1: which is very similar to state level legislation that already

1343
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: exists in a majority of states across the country, including

1344
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: many red states. So this was nothing really radical, but

1345
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: there was a whole freak out about as she was

1346
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 1: called a communist in price controls, et cetera, et cetera.

1347
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: You know, I might be in favor of some price controls,

1348
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 1: but there's no indication that Kamala Harris is. However, this

1349
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:53,280
Speaker 1: is one of those instances where there is such a

1350
01:02:53,400 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: clear divide between elite economic consensus and popular economic consensus,

1351
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: and so there was a poll that really dug into

1352
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of her different economic proposals. You can see

1353
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: it here up on the screen. So the purple bar

1354
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 1: is those who either strongly or somewhat support and issue,

1355
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: the gray is not sure, the red is strongly or

1356
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: somewhat oppose. And you can see that on all of

1357
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: these issues they all garner majority support and the opposition.

1358
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: The highest opposition is twenty seven percentage points. Specifically on

1359
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:34,560
Speaker 1: this question of quote unquote price controls. She's got capping

1360
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:38,280
Speaker 1: increases on food and grocery prices. It gets sixty five

1361
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: percent support, Okay, overwhelming support. Total opposite again of the

1362
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,479
Speaker 1: picture that was painted in the mainstream press, and only

1363
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: twenty four percent strongly or somewhat opposed. The most popular,

1364
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:51,600
Speaker 1: and again this is why you hear Democrats talk about

1365
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: this a lot.

1366
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 4: The most popular pieces.

1367
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: Of the agenda she announced had to do with getting

1368
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,439
Speaker 1: down the cost of prescription drug prices. So the most

1369
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: popular policy increasing the number of drugs eligible for Medicare

1370
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 1: price negotiations, capping the monthly cost of insulin at thirty

1371
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,880
Speaker 1: five dollars, expanding the earned income tax credit, capping out

1372
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 1: of pocket annual expenses for prescription drugs, directing the federal

1373
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 1: government to work with states to eliminate medical debt. So

1374
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,720
Speaker 1: many of those top issues have to do again with

1375
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: the cost of healthcare. Then you get to prices with

1376
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:26,280
Speaker 1: regard to food and groceries. Then you get to expanding

1377
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 1: a tax for housing developers who build affordable rental units.

1378
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: So now you're getting into housing and it goes from there. Actually,

1379
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: they tested on here I forgot this. They tested preventing

1380
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: corporate landlords from using algorithmic price setting tools, which is

1381
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 1: what we were just discussing the previous segment, and that

1382
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:44,120
Speaker 1: also gets sixty two percent approval. Put the next one

1383
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: up on the screen and can show the partisan breakdown here,

1384
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: which of course there is some partisan divide. However, many

1385
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: of these issues were even popular among Republicans, including that

1386
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: capping increases on food and grocery prices Republicans. You find

1387
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: even among among ordinary Republicans, fifty two percent support a

1388
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,680
Speaker 1: policy that was derided as being a communist policy by

1389
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: many Republicans and especially many sort of mainstream economists. So

1390
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: you can see, you know, pretty broad support for a

1391
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: lot of these issues. And put the next one, because

1392
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: I think there are a few more on the next one.

1393
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:20,920
Speaker 1: The most divisive partisan divisive issue just because I think

1394
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 1: of the way that the Affordable Care Act is so

1395
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: thoroughly branded and associated with the Democratic Party, is extending

1396
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: subsidies towards costs from the Affordable Care Act exchanges Republicans

1397
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 1: very much you know, opposed to it, Democrats very very

1398
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: much in support of it. So that was the most

1399
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: politically divisive issue. But overall, you can see, in spite

1400
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:40,720
Speaker 1: of the freak out from a lit economist, This is

1401
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: an agenda that is actually very popular, and as we

1402
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: said before, Soccer will see if she.

1403
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 4: Leans into it.

1404
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,520
Speaker 1: See if she actually, you know, tries to pass some

1405
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,080
Speaker 1: of this agenda when she's president, or if it's mostly

1406
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: just a messaging point.

1407
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 2: We do definitely know. Can we put D seven please

1408
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:59,720
Speaker 2: up on the screen? Already they're telling Democrats on the

1409
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 2: Hill who were trying to or backlash on the grocery

1410
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 2: store plan, they said, don't worry, guys, it will never

1411
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 2: pass through Congress, so it's not a big deal.

1412
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:09,959
Speaker 3: I guess I haven't gotten to talk to you about

1413
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 3: price controls now.

1414
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,600
Speaker 2: Look, I don't support price controls unless it's basically in

1415
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 2: a time of war or an extremely bad situation. I

1416
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:18,480
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of different things that you can

1417
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 2: do before we even getting there. Some of the things

1418
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:23,040
Speaker 2: that Biden administration has done which I definitely support, or

1419
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 2: I've expressed support for breaking up me packing. There's a

1420
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 2: whole lot of stuff that we can do before we

1421
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 2: have to literally resort to a straight up price control.

1422
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 2: But and this is what I always tell Republicans as well,

1423
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 2: is you should never underestimate the American people's appetite to

1424
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 2: screw over a big business of any kind. And so

1425
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,720
Speaker 2: when people are paying higher grocery prices, what they we

1426
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: have acknowledged and seen repeatedly is a lot of people

1427
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,520
Speaker 2: with tremendous anger at the food system and at the government.

1428
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: And the reason and this, you know, is a really

1429
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 2: interesting point. Why do people feel angry at the government

1430
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 2: when food prices go up? Well, it's because they into

1431
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:01,320
Speaker 2: it that there is a can right and it's the

1432
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: Federal Reserve and others. And so that's where we have

1433
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:08,160
Speaker 2: to divorce ourselves of this idea that this is purely

1434
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 2: a result of the free market.

1435
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:11,600
Speaker 3: I mean, talking about this with Ryan.

1436
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:16,440
Speaker 2: Listen, the agricultural industry is the most pampered industry in America.

1437
01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:19,720
Speaker 2: The Farm Bill, the amount of subsidies these people get,

1438
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 2: the amount of a monopoly power that we defacto allow them.

1439
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 2: Think about then, I mean, if we own a small business,

1440
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:30,640
Speaker 2: I would get on the ground and kiss it if

1441
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:33,120
Speaker 2: we got the same level of tax breaks that these

1442
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 2: food producers do. And I'm not even mad about it

1443
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 2: per se, because the argument is, what, well, you know,

1444
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 2: they're feeding the country, fine, But then we also get

1445
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 2: a little bit of a say in how you do business,

1446
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 2: and that is where there's a lot of problems lost

1447
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 2: in the discourse. So, for example, there's a price gouging

1448
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 2: law on the books in Arkansas, Red state, and I

1449
01:07:52,480 --> 01:07:54,680
Speaker 2: looked into it. It's kind of interesting, which is they

1450
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,000
Speaker 2: don't tell you what you can and can't do. You

1451
01:07:57,000 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: have to justify any price of x percent in there's

1452
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 2: also a lot of talk about grocery stores and how

1453
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: they operate on low margins.

1454
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:05,959
Speaker 3: That's definitely true of grocery stores.

1455
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 2: Well, what people forget is that it's about the food

1456
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 2: supply before the food even gets to the grocery store.

1457
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,320
Speaker 2: Go and check the processed food industry and a lot

1458
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 2: of the rolled up a lot of the rolled up producers,

1459
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 2: they're actually printed money and they're share buybacks. They just

1460
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,759
Speaker 2: had some thirty three billion dollar deal to acquire Cheetos

1461
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,080
Speaker 2: and Eggo waffles. My point is just that these people

1462
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 2: make a ton of money. They actually there is quite

1463
01:08:29,400 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: a bit of price increase happening. Some of it is

1464
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:36,240
Speaker 2: attributable to supply chain costs. But again, though what people

1465
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:38,200
Speaker 2: can into it. If people watch our show from twenty

1466
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:40,120
Speaker 2: twenty one, there was a lot the government could have

1467
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 2: done so bring down prices and not enohing to do

1468
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:46,040
Speaker 2: with price control, and I would guarantee you you would

1469
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:48,960
Speaker 2: support those things, things like increasing the amount of truck

1470
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,639
Speaker 2: drivers on the road, or using the Army, National Guard

1471
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:55,559
Speaker 2: or anybody else to clear the port, you know, the

1472
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,880
Speaker 2: port backlog that we had which led to supply shortages.

1473
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 2: So when people say I want to keep the government out,

1474
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 2: it's like, well, first of all, they're already in.

1475
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 3: Yes, let's be honest.

1476
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 2: But second is that you know, we have a very

1477
01:09:07,200 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: dishonest conversation around a list a lot of this stuff,

1478
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: which personally drives me nuts because it actually it loses

1479
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 2: most of the nuance in the conversation that should exist.

1480
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,800
Speaker 1: I think part of why there was this like economist

1481
01:09:18,840 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: freak out over this particular policy, which again is like

1482
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: very similar to policies that are already on books in

1483
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: a majority of states, which just gives the federal government

1484
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:32,280
Speaker 1: a tool that they could theoretically use if you see

1485
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: clear examples of price gouging, to be able to stop that,

1486
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:38,799
Speaker 1: which I think is something again overwhelming majority of Americans

1487
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:41,519
Speaker 1: clearly support. I think part of why there was such

1488
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: a freak out about this is because it's spelled the

1489
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 1: loss of a debate that had been ongoing about some

1490
01:09:46,320 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: of the causes of inflation. You know, when people like

1491
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 1: us were initially saying, you know, part of what's going

1492
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,200
Speaker 1: on here, I'm not saying it's one hundred percent of

1493
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:53,759
Speaker 1: the whole story.

1494
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 4: Part of what's going on is that some of these companies.

1495
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: Realize that people are expecting in and so they are

1496
01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:02,519
Speaker 1: price gouging.

1497
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 4: They are admitting on their earnings.

1498
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 1: Calls that like, yeah, we're able to spike prices way

1499
01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: higher than our elevated costs. And you could look at

1500
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: their earnings and you could see their profit margins going

1501
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 1: through the roof while they're you know, crying poor about

1502
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: the supply chains or whatever their increased costs might be,

1503
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,160
Speaker 1: or mostly crying poor about like, oh, you know, labor

1504
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 1: force is getting more expensive or whatever. A big component,

1505
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 1: in fact, some research shows the main component, a majority

1506
01:10:31,160 --> 01:10:34,559
Speaker 1: of the price increases actually came from this type of

1507
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: unchecked corporate greed and price gouging. Now, part of why

1508
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 1: they have the power to do that is because you

1509
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: do have so much consolidation in these various industries. That's

1510
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: why it's important both to have tools like anti price

1511
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: gouging legislation, yes at the federal level and at the

1512
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:56,440
Speaker 1: state level, great, and to aggressively go after these industries

1513
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: that have consolidated so much so that you have more competition.

1514
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: That really, this is not about some communist scheme as actually,

1515
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 1: and if you talked to Matt Stoller, I think he's

1516
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,280
Speaker 1: right about this is more about having actual, real capitalistic

1517
01:11:10,360 --> 01:11:14,439
Speaker 1: competitive markets, you know, that's that's what's lacking in a

1518
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 1: lot of these industries. So so yeah, I think that's

1519
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 1: part of why there's been such a freak out about it,

1520
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:22,400
Speaker 1: because it shows Kamala Harris ciding with that argument that yes,

1521
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: a big part of this was corporations. Yes, a big

1522
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:28,960
Speaker 1: part of this was greedflation. And Biden, you know, he

1523
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:31,679
Speaker 1: never was comfortable. First of all, he's not capable of maybe.

1524
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:34,960
Speaker 1: Second of all, he's never comfortable bank in the argument

1525
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:37,160
Speaker 1: because he's just such a you know, died in the

1526
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 1: wools standard, like, you know, his whole worldview formulated in

1527
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two or whatever. And so he would come

1528
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:46,760
Speaker 1: out and you would do these little things, these little

1529
01:11:46,760 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: pressers around the meat packing industry or whatever. But there

1530
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 1: was an argument internally within his administration about how much

1531
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,520
Speaker 1: to lean into this conversation, and he was never comfortable

1532
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: being like to be honest villainizing greedy corporations and corporate CEOs.

1533
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,839
Speaker 1: He was never really comfortable doing that. Kamala Harris appears

1534
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: to be more comfortable doing that. I wanted to mention

1535
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:12,360
Speaker 1: there was a poll that from you gov that showed

1536
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 1: that asked Americans who they trust more on lowering food

1537
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 1: cost and it was basically a tie. It was thirty

1538
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 1: nine Kamala Harrison thirty eight Donald Trump. I think that

1539
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: is a dramatic likely turn around from how people would

1540
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 1: have rated this question with regard to Biden.

1541
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 4: And it's one pull.

1542
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: These polls, you know, can be really significantly off. But

1543
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: if she's even in the ballpark, that's a big problem

1544
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:38,720
Speaker 1: for him because he is really betting on inflation being

1545
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 1: a key key driver of support for him in this

1546
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,760
Speaker 1: presidential contest. And if she's pulled even with him, or

1547
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: if she has a chance through leaning into these policies

1548
01:12:49,320 --> 01:12:52,360
Speaker 1: to really pull ahead, that's really a death knel for

1549
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 1: his presidential campaign here because it is such a key

1550
01:12:56,479 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: issue and for whatever reason, people feel much more confident

1551
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:03,040
Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris on this issue than they did.

1552
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 4: About Joe Biden.

1553
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,719
Speaker 2: It's just Trump, though, benefits from the twenty nineteen inflation numbers.

1554
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:10,439
Speaker 2: And that's something that I hear JD always bring up

1555
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 2: in the interviews. They're like, look, look at the inflation

1556
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:14,960
Speaker 2: under Donald Trump. Look what the inflation was under them.

1557
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: They had inflation under control. Now you know whether they

1558
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 2: had anything to do with that or not. Listen, presidents

1559
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 2: are always beneficiaries of macroeconomic conditions. So I think that's

1560
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: still a very powerful argument. She did roughly tie him

1561
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: on the economy, which is crazy because it used to

1562
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:31,839
Speaker 2: be that Trump would have like a fifty or sixty

1563
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:34,559
Speaker 2: point lead or whatever. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it was

1564
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 2: a lot over Joe Biden. Yeah, under it was a lot.

1565
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:38,799
Speaker 2: I mean trouble digits first.

1566
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 3: That's something you rarely see in politics.

1567
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 2: Actually, Whereas I've seen some polls which where she ties somewhere,

1568
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,799
Speaker 2: he still leads by five, maybe.

1569
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 4: Ten, but single digits, nothing like whatever, much.

1570
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:50,759
Speaker 3: Less than it was under Biden.

1571
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 2: In general, though, I think there is still a deep

1572
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 2: discomfort on her part and others where this is the

1573
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 2: elite democratic candidate like she is connected to the machine,

1574
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 2: and when the machine is full of a lot of

1575
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 2: billionaires and others who have a single kind of minded

1576
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 2: view of the way that they want to talk about

1577
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 2: prices and everything else, that's where I think her campaign

1578
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 2: has suffered. And I think that the evidence already in

1579
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 2: that political article of guys, don't worry, it's never going

1580
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 2: to pass, that does show kind of what is ruling

1581
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 2: this so far.

1582
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 3: But we'll see. I mean, I could be wrong.

1583
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 1: I can't totally wrong, So I'll say I've seen some

1584
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 1: mixed indications, right, Tim Wall's positive indication, Brian Deese positive indication,

1585
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: Tony West negative indication.

1586
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 4: At the DNC, it was even there, it was real

1587
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 4: mix bag.

1588
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 1: First night positive indication, a lot of labor, a lot

1589
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 1: of talk about middle class economics, populist economics.

1590
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:39,760
Speaker 4: It was like, yes' great, they get it.

1591
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 1: Then you get to Kama's actual speech. She doesn't spend

1592
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,639
Speaker 1: that much time on it. It's a lot of more

1593
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 1: like most lethal you know, military and history and let

1594
01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 1: me be a neocon, and a lot of bio and

1595
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,599
Speaker 1: all those sorts of things. The first ad she put

1596
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:54,920
Speaker 1: out after the DNC also was sort of like it

1597
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:58,599
Speaker 1: was a bioad didn't really you know, biographical ad didn't

1598
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 1: really lean into a lot of the very popular economic

1599
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,559
Speaker 1: agenda that she has announced. However, she has put on

1600
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 1: a new ad that leans more in this direction.

1601
01:15:09,720 --> 01:15:10,680
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

1602
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:15,280
Speaker 10: Every day across our nation, families talk about their plans

1603
01:15:15,320 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 10: for the future, and they talk about how they're going

1604
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 10: to achieve them financially, and prices are still too high.

1605
01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 10: When I am elected president, I will make it a

1606
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 10: top priority to bring down costs. We should be doing

1607
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 10: everything we can to make it more affordable to buy

1608
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,880
Speaker 10: a home. Under my plan, more than one hundred million

1609
01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 10: Americans will get a tax cut. I will help families,

1610
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 10: letting you keep more of your hard earned money. As president,

1611
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:48,120
Speaker 10: I will be laser focused on creating opportunities for the

1612
01:15:48,160 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 10: middle class that advance their economic security, stability, and dignity.

1613
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,000
Speaker 10: If you want to know what someone cares about, look

1614
01:15:58,040 --> 01:16:02,720
Speaker 10: who they fight for. Fights for billionaires and large corporations.

1615
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 10: I will fight to give money back to working in

1616
01:16:05,680 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 10: middle class Americans.

1617
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:08,960
Speaker 4: So there you go.

1618
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,040
Speaker 1: That's the messaging she's putting out there. On economics. I

1619
01:16:11,080 --> 01:16:13,880
Speaker 1: will say the reason I'm somewhat hopeful. Is not because

1620
01:16:13,880 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: of who Kamala Harris is or been, or her political

1621
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:16,639
Speaker 1: level or whatever.

1622
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 4: Who I have no idea who she is.

1623
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 1: I don't think she has a lot of core ideological

1624
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 1: commitments if however, what gives me hope in this regard

1625
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,960
Speaker 1: is the fact that you had Joe Biden, who was,

1626
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: if anything, were ideologically like centrist committed, and who ends

1627
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:38,479
Speaker 1: up making some positive steps on corporate power in particular,

1628
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:43,120
Speaker 1: but also on labor, not because he's like, you know,

1629
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 1: a lout of the goodness of his heart or whatever,

1630
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 1: but because it ends up being where the new center is,

1631
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 1: as evidenced by those polls, and also because it ends

1632
01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:56,640
Speaker 1: up being very politically popular. And I think that's you know,

1633
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: how you end up with Kamala Harris taking on a

1634
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: lot of the same agenda, reframant repackaging it as being

1635
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 1: her own, even as many much of it is carrying

1636
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 1: over some of the Biden policies.

1637
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 4: And up anyanti on a number of Biden.

1638
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: Policies, just basically because she wants to win and she

1639
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:15,639
Speaker 1: can read a poll, and you know, when she gets

1640
01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,599
Speaker 1: in office, she's going to be wanting to position herself

1641
01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 1: well for reelection. So it's not her you know, morality

1642
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,120
Speaker 1: that are my expectation that she's going to have any

1643
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: core ideological commitments. It's the fact that the politics of

1644
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,080
Speaker 1: this are sort of undeniable at this point. And you

1645
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,439
Speaker 1: see that also reflected in you know, the JD. Vances

1646
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: and the Josh Howleyes and whatever of the world, or

1647
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:39,280
Speaker 1: Chuck Grassley even of the world. Who over on the

1648
01:17:39,320 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: Republican side, you know, they have also felt the need

1649
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: and the political benefit of shifting rhetorically on some of

1650
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:48,720
Speaker 1: these issues as well, to the extent that you know,

1651
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:51,760
Speaker 1: Jade Vance is out there praising Lena Khan. That's not

1652
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,559
Speaker 1: the whole of the Republican Party. There's not a lot

1653
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 1: of indication that that would have a lot of sway

1654
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 1: within a Trump administration given his previous track record.

1655
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 4: But even the fact that they have rhetorically signaled in

1656
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 4: that direction, to me is a noteworthy shift and an

1657
01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 4: indication that the politics on this stuff has really really changed.

1658
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll see. Certainly.

1659
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,040
Speaker 2: I believe we have David Serota standing by, so why

1660
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,000
Speaker 2: don't we talk to him?

1661
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned at the top of the show,

1662
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:20,320
Speaker 1: our great friend from lever News David Sarta is out

1663
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:24,320
Speaker 1: with a fantastic new podcast called The master Plan, all

1664
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,840
Speaker 1: about two years worth of reporting into the plot to

1665
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 1: normalize and legalize corruption in America, and David joins us.

1666
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 4: Now, great to Caesar, good to see you, Thanks for

1667
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:34,280
Speaker 4: having me.

1668
01:18:34,560 --> 01:18:36,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, So just tell us a little bit

1669
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:38,080
Speaker 1: about what you found here.

1670
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 14: So I heard your discussion in the previous segment about

1671
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 14: the push and pull on policy and the conflict between

1672
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 14: donors and voters when politicians think about policy, and our

1673
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:57,240
Speaker 14: series Master Plan is about the secret plot to legalize

1674
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,799
Speaker 14: the kind of corruption that makes the those conflicts inherent

1675
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:06,479
Speaker 14: in our politics today. By deregulating the campaign finance system,

1676
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 14: by gutting anti corruption laws, we now have a politics

1677
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:15,840
Speaker 14: in our country where it is essentially a politics dictated

1678
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 14: by donors, with voters playing very little or at least

1679
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:26,760
Speaker 14: disproportionately small a role in political decisions and policy decisions.

1680
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:28,759
Speaker 8: And that's not by accident.

1681
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 14: That is the result of a very specific plan, executed

1682
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 14: by very specific people with a very specific agenda to

1683
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 14: deregulate the campaign finance system and anti corruption laws to

1684
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 14: make money determinative of our political outcomes, of our policy outcomes.

1685
01:19:46,280 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 8: That's what this.

1686
01:19:47,200 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 14: Show is all about. It took us two years to

1687
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 14: unearth this story. It really does explain everything that we're

1688
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:54,920
Speaker 14: living through today.

1689
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: And David, just before I get Sager in here, we

1690
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: have a little bit of the the promo trailer that

1691
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:03,600
Speaker 1: you did to give people an additional taste of the

1692
01:20:03,720 --> 01:20:04,840
Speaker 1: reporting your listicalism.

1693
01:20:05,200 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 15: When you wake up in the morning and see the

1694
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 15: recent headlines about the Supreme Court a.

1695
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 3: Judicial decision sparking a political eruption.

1696
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 15: I'm guessing you feel overwhelmed and bewildered.

1697
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 4: The Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Way, Well, it's terrifying.

1698
01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:20,400
Speaker 3: I don't know what's next.

1699
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 15: You hear about the Court helping corporations trample your long

1700
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 15: standing rights. This is a sweeping decision by the Supreme

1701
01:20:26,360 --> 01:20:28,439
Speaker 15: Court to overturn the Chevron precedent.

1702
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:31,440
Speaker 13: What this does is it ends forty years of regulating

1703
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 13: big business.

1704
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 15: You hear about the justices making it literally legal to

1705
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:38,120
Speaker 15: bribe politicians in a six to three opinion.

1706
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,639
Speaker 12: The Court rule that gives to public officials can only

1707
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 12: be considered illegal bribes if they're given before the official act.

1708
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 2: Seems like every few months, the Supreme Court makes it

1709
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 2: easier and easier to bribe government officials.

1710
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 15: You even hear about the Supreme Court actually declaring that

1711
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:54,920
Speaker 15: the president does not have to follow the law.

1712
01:20:55,120 --> 01:20:57,680
Speaker 2: It's the first time the Supreme Court has ruled that

1713
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 2: former presidents can be shielded from crime charges in.

1714
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:04,720
Speaker 3: Every use of official power. The president is now a

1715
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:06,760
Speaker 3: thing above the law.

1716
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 15: As you're doom scrolling, do you ever stop and ask

1717
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,759
Speaker 15: what the actual is going on and how in God's

1718
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 15: name did we get here? Well, we have an answer

1719
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,960
Speaker 15: for you. It wasn't a random coincidence, and it wasn't

1720
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 15: just by chance. What's happening right now is the culmination

1721
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:26,000
Speaker 15: of a very deliberate and very secret scheme, executed by

1722
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:30,160
Speaker 15: specific people with specific goals. I'm David Sarrogan, as a

1723
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:33,840
Speaker 15: longtime journalist and author. I've spent decades working in and

1724
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 15: covering American politics. Our team of reporters at the level

1725
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 15: is about to expose the never before reported details of

1726
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:45,120
Speaker 15: this plot in our upcoming new investigative podcast series master Plan.

1727
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,439
Speaker 6: They are actually trying to open our political world to

1728
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 6: right wing dark mind.

1729
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 2: Something very weird is going on that it's got to

1730
01:21:52,880 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 2: be Mum, where's all this money coming from We've spent.

1731
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:58,200
Speaker 15: Two years reporting this story, so you're not gonna want

1732
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,120
Speaker 15: to miss it. Go to master Plan pod to sign

1733
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:03,519
Speaker 15: up to be the first to get the series when

1734
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 15: it launches in August. You can also find the trailer

1735
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,720
Speaker 15: and subscribe to the podcast to be right now by

1736
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 15: searching Masterplan in your podcast app.

1737
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 2: David, can you give us a little bit of a

1738
01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:17,679
Speaker 2: preview of some of the things you guys uncover?

1739
01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:22,440
Speaker 14: Sure, So, what this does is we start at Watergate,

1740
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:25,080
Speaker 14: and I think a lot of people know about the

1741
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,400
Speaker 14: break in. Obviously, I think fewer people know that it

1742
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:33,000
Speaker 14: was the first major campaign finance scandal of the modern era,

1743
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:38,040
Speaker 14: that corporate money from blue chip companies at the discretion

1744
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:42,080
Speaker 14: of top executives ended up funding that break in, and

1745
01:22:42,120 --> 01:22:46,640
Speaker 14: that prompted what was considered the first landmark period of

1746
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 14: anti corruption reform, but actually was ended up being the

1747
01:22:50,320 --> 01:22:54,280
Speaker 14: last gasp of anti corruption reform. There was a campaign

1748
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 14: finance laws that pass in the wake of Watergate.

1749
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 8: They were quickly gutted. In fact, loopholes were put into the.

1750
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 14: Post Watergate anti corruption laws to create the explosion of

1751
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 14: corporate PACs, and what ended up happening was.

1752
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:12,280
Speaker 8: Out of that came something called the Powell Memo.

1753
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,559
Speaker 14: The Power Memo was written by Lewis Powell, right before

1754
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:19,880
Speaker 14: he became a Supreme Court justice, which essentially urged a

1755
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,800
Speaker 14: corporate takeover of American politics. And what we show is

1756
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 14: is that in a series of task forces that major

1757
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 14: corporations and their executives ended up executing that blueprint with

1758
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 14: a focus on deregulating campaign finance. Soon after the Powell Memo,

1759
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:42,559
Speaker 14: there were landmarks Supreme Court decisions equating what was then

1760
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:48,440
Speaker 14: a radical theory equating money with speech, and then extending

1761
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:53,839
Speaker 14: those free speech rights to corporations. In fact, that decision

1762
01:23:54,160 --> 01:23:57,719
Speaker 14: about corporations having the same free speech rights as human beings,

1763
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 14: that was engineered by none other than Lewis Powell. So

1764
01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 14: we traced from that point up to push There was

1765
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,679
Speaker 14: a push for reform by John McCain amid the corruption

1766
01:24:07,800 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 14: scandals of the eighties and nineties that was subsequently overturned

1767
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:16,240
Speaker 14: when John Roberts and Sam Alito joined the Court and

1768
01:24:16,360 --> 01:24:20,959
Speaker 14: worked with Anthony Kennedy. Anthony Kennedy a former corporate lobbyist.

1769
01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 14: As many people do not know, Anthony Kenny Kennedy engineered

1770
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 14: the Citizens United decision which essentially pretended that corruption does

1771
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:35,080
Speaker 14: not exist, and under that premise basically said that unlimited

1772
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 14: spending by corporations and billionaires is now allowed. That is

1773
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:44,439
Speaker 14: a very short summary of how far we've come. But

1774
01:24:44,479 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 14: the point is is that all of that was engineered

1775
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,400
Speaker 14: with a specific agenda from specific people, with a very

1776
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,439
Speaker 14: specific plan about how to do this. Now, you may wonder,

1777
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 14: why would anybody want to deregulate the campaign finance system,

1778
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:02,640
Speaker 14: why would anybody want to got anti corruption laws. The

1779
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:04,800
Speaker 14: answer is is that if you're talking about the threat

1780
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:08,679
Speaker 14: to democracy, that's what we're talking about here. That money

1781
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:13,479
Speaker 14: is the way to short circuit the one person, one

1782
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,200
Speaker 14: vote paradigm that's supposed to undergird our democracy.

1783
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 8: We're talking about you. I saw you both at the convention, right.

1784
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:25,120
Speaker 14: The convention had this incredible tension where there were delegates

1785
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,280
Speaker 14: on the floor of the convention, rank and file folks

1786
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:32,439
Speaker 14: at the grassroots level, effectively representations of voters, but up

1787
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:37,720
Speaker 14: in the suites there were corporate lobbies looking to schmooze

1788
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 14: and influence politicians. What money does, what all of this

1789
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 14: money does, is it makes the people in those corporate

1790
01:25:46,080 --> 01:25:51,720
Speaker 14: suites who wield that money arguably more important than the

1791
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 14: people on the floor of the convention, at least their

1792
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 14: interests more important in the eyes of politicians.

1793
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:59,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's a lot of research to back up that.

1794
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 4: That's sad.

1795
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: Reality has already become the case. You mentioned the you know,

1796
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 1: the distance between not very much physical distance, but sort

1797
01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,720
Speaker 1: of reality distance and influence distance between those on the

1798
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:13,680
Speaker 1: floor and those in the suites. Chris Cmo got a

1799
01:26:13,680 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: lot of attention for making this point from his new

1800
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:19,320
Speaker 1: perch over at News Nation and play that clip and

1801
01:26:19,320 --> 01:26:19,880
Speaker 1: get your reaction.

1802
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:22,240
Speaker 13: On the other side, a big theme here at the

1803
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:25,799
Speaker 13: DNC is that they're going to go after corporate couging,

1804
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:31,680
Speaker 13: and they're going to go after corporations, whether it's in taxes, largesse, loopholes.

1805
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 13: The RNC we heard the same thing. They're going after

1806
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:38,000
Speaker 13: the elites, the two sets of rules. Let me reveal

1807
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 13: a reality to you that has to be spoken to here. Okay,

1808
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:44,240
Speaker 13: these are the soldiers. These are the men and the

1809
01:26:44,280 --> 01:26:46,960
Speaker 13: women that go back to their constituencies in their communities

1810
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:48,840
Speaker 13: and they fight. They take time from their jobs, they

1811
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 13: take tom's from their families. Republicans and Democrats alike. That's

1812
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 13: what they do. They need to charge these people up.

1813
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 13: They need to be able to get them on board.

1814
01:26:56,600 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 13: But there's another reality that is literally looking down on them.

1815
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 15: Greg.

1816
01:27:00,960 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 3: Look at the ring of suites.

1817
01:27:02,240 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 13: Okay, this is not unique to Democrats. There is a

1818
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 13: game of money. When people talk about uniparty, we are

1819
01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,919
Speaker 13: strangled by the money reality in our politics. Those suites

1820
01:27:14,160 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 13: start at five hundred grand. You think there's like a

1821
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 13: teacher group up in there. You think it's like the

1822
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,960
Speaker 13: cub Scouts of Columbia County, South Carolina that's up in

1823
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:26,840
Speaker 13: those boxes. Some of them are lobbies and good things.

1824
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 13: The media boxes, you think they're free. Why do you

1825
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:33,080
Speaker 13: think I'm on the floor. News Nation is not a

1826
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:36,160
Speaker 13: broke company. Next door is a massive organization. We are

1827
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:38,920
Speaker 13: corporate media. We don't have one of those boxes because

1828
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:43,439
Speaker 13: that's the game you pay to play. Those boxes are

1829
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:46,160
Speaker 13: filled with the same people that they say they're gonna regulate.

1830
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:52,240
Speaker 13: They are literally looking down on the faithful and being told, yeah, yeah,

1831
01:27:52,240 --> 01:27:53,639
Speaker 13: we're gonna break down on them.

1832
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 1: Now, important passenger, when he was in those boxes with CNN,

1833
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:00,400
Speaker 1: it was good life and say anything about it. But

1834
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: now he's in a different position. He's got something to

1835
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:04,240
Speaker 1: say about it, but you know, welcome to the cause.

1836
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:06,000
Speaker 1: What did you make of it, David.

1837
01:28:06,160 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 14: I'll be generous to Chris Pomo and say, yes, he's

1838
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 14: late to the cause.

1839
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 8: Yes it's probably opportunistic.

1840
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,920
Speaker 14: But the fact that he sees an opportunity for himself

1841
01:28:15,280 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 14: in speaking to something that clearly lots and lots of

1842
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,080
Speaker 14: people are concerned about and lots and lots of people

1843
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 14: know and see is a problem.

1844
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 8: I think that speaks to.

1845
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:30,360
Speaker 14: How aware, inherently aware most people are. That our politics,

1846
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:34,400
Speaker 14: whatever you want to call it, oligarchy, plutocracy, kleptocracy, our

1847
01:28:34,439 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 14: politics is barely a democracy anymore when money controls so much,

1848
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:43,919
Speaker 14: not only of the policy that come out of our government,

1849
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 14: but of the discourse itself. And I think, look, you

1850
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:51,200
Speaker 14: saw that last week and over the last few weeks,

1851
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 14: Kamala Harris put out a made a couple of statements

1852
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:59,479
Speaker 14: about price gouging, and corporate media freaked out. Now you've

1853
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:04,479
Speaker 14: got legislators telling media that the proposal, any kind of

1854
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,600
Speaker 14: proposal on price gouging is dead on arrival in Congress.

1855
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:11,680
Speaker 8: That is money talking. And I could look, I could

1856
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:12,519
Speaker 8: give other examples.

1857
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 14: I mean, the one that sticks out to me is

1858
01:29:14,280 --> 01:29:16,400
Speaker 14: it's not just what we're talking about and what Congress

1859
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 14: is legislating, it's what we're not talking about and what

1860
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 14: Congress never touches. I mean, think about this, Think about

1861
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 14: how huge a healthcare crisis that we have in this country.

1862
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 14: We have health insurance companies systematically looting this country, emiserating

1863
01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:36,800
Speaker 14: millions and millions of people, and this topic is basically

1864
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 14: not even a conversation in our politics at all. At

1865
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 14: the same time that the health insurance industry is one

1866
01:29:43,880 --> 01:29:48,400
Speaker 14: of the biggest funders of American politics.

1867
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:50,160
Speaker 8: That we have. That's not a coincidence.

1868
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,360
Speaker 14: And what it leaves us with is a politics where

1869
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 14: the parameters of what we can talk about, what we

1870
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:00,360
Speaker 14: can hope for, what we can expect on policy is

1871
01:30:00,479 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 14: much more narrow than it should be. Just I keep

1872
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:06,640
Speaker 14: going back to healthcare because everyone who's listening to this

1873
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 14: has struggled with or faces the potential struggle with being

1874
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:15,200
Speaker 14: bankrupted by our health insurance system, our healthcare system, and

1875
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 14: yet it is barely a topic of conversation and not

1876
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 14: something that politicians want to touch. That is the power

1877
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:24,599
Speaker 14: of all of the money that has been allowed to

1878
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:28,000
Speaker 14: flood into our politics, that is exactly what the master

1879
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 14: planners wanted. They wanted to deregulate the campaign finance and

1880
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:36,040
Speaker 14: anti corruption laws in order to make sure we're only

1881
01:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 14: talking about a few things, not talking about the things

1882
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:41,560
Speaker 14: that enrich them.

1883
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, awesome, David.

1884
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:46,120
Speaker 1: I wanted you to reflect a little bit on the

1885
01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 1: Democratic Party in all of this. It's my sense that

1886
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 1: there used to be a Democratic Party has always, you know,

1887
01:30:52,040 --> 01:30:55,719
Speaker 1: in this free money, big money era, has always coreted

1888
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:57,679
Speaker 1: that money. They've always said, listen, we've got to play

1889
01:30:57,680 --> 01:30:59,880
Speaker 1: by the rules as they exist. But gosh, darn itt,

1890
01:30:59,880 --> 01:31:01,840
Speaker 1: will we get in there. We're going to change things.

1891
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:04,920
Speaker 1: And now outside of the Bernie Sanders of the world,

1892
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:06,519
Speaker 1: I really don't hear that anymore.

1893
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:08,320
Speaker 4: I feel like they've just accepted this.

1894
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 1: They've found the way for themselves to benefit and profit

1895
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 1: off of, you know, the interest groups that are more

1896
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:16,679
Speaker 1: democratic aligned that they get a lot of cash from.

1897
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 1: They've discovered, especially in the Clinton era and then the

1898
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:21,360
Speaker 1: Obama era, that hey, we can raise just as much

1899
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: corporate and Wall Street cash as the Republicans. So this

1900
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:26,240
Speaker 1: isn't really a problem for us. It becomes an incumbent

1901
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: protection plan. It becomes the way that people like Nancy Pelosi.

1902
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:31,559
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the entire source of her power,

1903
01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:34,360
Speaker 1: is how well connected she is within the donor community.

1904
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:37,759
Speaker 1: So my sense is that Democrats have just basically seated

1905
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 1: the issue and accepted this level of corruption in politics,

1906
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,160
Speaker 1: and you know, don't really have any plans or really

1907
01:31:44,160 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 1: any qualms about it at this point.

1908
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:48,280
Speaker 14: I'm glad you bring this up because it's an important point,

1909
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:50,880
Speaker 14: and I would agree that the current system that the

1910
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:54,639
Speaker 14: people in both parties who are in elected office are

1911
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:58,720
Speaker 14: the masters of the current system and therefore are the

1912
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:01,599
Speaker 14: most resistant to changing the system.

1913
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:06,879
Speaker 8: Right, they're the winners of this system. That said, the Democrats.

1914
01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 14: The Democrats are the ones who are co sponsoring and

1915
01:32:10,280 --> 01:32:14,679
Speaker 14: authoring the legislation, like, for instance, Sheldon Whitehouse's Disclose Act.

1916
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:19,120
Speaker 14: The Disclosed Act should be a bipartisan bill. The Disclosed

1917
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:22,479
Speaker 14: Act basically would say, we can't even roll back Citizens United,

1918
01:32:22,520 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 14: we can't roll back unlimited spending and elections. It's not

1919
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 14: public financing of elections, which to my mind is the

1920
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 14: only solution here, and we can talk more about that.

1921
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:34,000
Speaker 14: But the Disclosed Act w simply just says, listen, dark money,

1922
01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,760
Speaker 14: anonymous money, the money that's buying elections that we don't

1923
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 14: even know who it's coming from. That has to come

1924
01:32:40,080 --> 01:32:42,640
Speaker 14: out into the open, and it's the Democrats who are

1925
01:32:42,680 --> 01:32:46,640
Speaker 14: sponsoring that bill, it's not the Republicans. Mitch McConnell has

1926
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 14: done a terrific job essentially polarizing the issue of disclosure

1927
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 14: in campaign finance so that there are essentially no Republican

1928
01:32:56,120 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 14: crossovers like there basically are no John McCain's anymore. McCain

1929
01:33:00,479 --> 01:33:03,880
Speaker 14: was the one, the last person in American national politics

1930
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 14: who really elevated this level to a national issue. So

1931
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 14: I would say the Democrats at least are signed their

1932
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 14: names onto something like the Disclosed Act. But I would

1933
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:17,640
Speaker 14: also agree with you that they have not made it

1934
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,400
Speaker 14: a priority. That it's something that they sort of know

1935
01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 14: that they they should be on, that they've been on

1936
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,440
Speaker 14: in the past, that they've pushed in the past traditionally,

1937
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 14: But are they willing to put real political capital behind it?

1938
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:32,599
Speaker 8: Are they willing?

1939
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 14: Is Kamala Harris, if she gets elected, is she willing

1940
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:37,760
Speaker 14: to make that a major priority.

1941
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 8: I don't think there's.

1942
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 14: Any indication of that, and I think it speaks to

1943
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 14: what you're saying, which is that there are periodically. There's

1944
01:33:45,479 --> 01:33:48,280
Speaker 14: some rhetoric about this, there's some tip of the hats

1945
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:52,040
Speaker 14: about this, but there's not a real push to change

1946
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:55,280
Speaker 14: the system, not like we saw with John McCain back

1947
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:57,360
Speaker 14: in the late nineties and two thousand and I was

1948
01:33:57,360 --> 01:34:00,320
Speaker 14: talking to a friend last night, said, I said, when

1949
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:03,040
Speaker 14: is that? Where is the John McCain of this era?

1950
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:05,240
Speaker 14: I mean, I'm like, I'm not a huge like John

1951
01:34:05,320 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 14: McCain is the greatest.

1952
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 8: Guy in the world. I agree with everything you did.

1953
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 14: But I can still remember, and maybe that says how

1954
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 14: old I am. I can still remember when in two thousand,

1955
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:18,080
Speaker 14: in nineteen ninety nine, John McCain really elevated that that

1956
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 14: issue corruption to a national issue, and I don't think

1957
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:25,439
Speaker 14: it's happened since, even as the system has gotten more corrupt.

1958
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 1: Very true, Yeah, I think you know the campaign you

1959
01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:32,000
Speaker 1: were associated with, Bernie Sanders, I think also deserves credit

1960
01:34:32,080 --> 01:34:34,599
Speaker 1: for a really good point, carrying that message and pushing

1961
01:34:34,600 --> 01:34:36,479
Speaker 1: that forward. But you know he didn't end up the

1962
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:39,920
Speaker 1: party's nominees, so that limits how far and how hard

1963
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,679
Speaker 1: you can push that. David, Just get people details where

1964
01:34:42,680 --> 01:34:45,120
Speaker 1: they can find it, how they can subscribe what they get.

1965
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 4: All that good stuff.

1966
01:34:46,360 --> 01:34:48,960
Speaker 14: So you can go to Masterplan podcast dot com. That's

1967
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:51,439
Speaker 14: where you can get the podcast. If you subscribe to

1968
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 14: the lever at levernews dot com, you not only get

1969
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 14: the the you get the premium version, which includes bonus episodes,

1970
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:01,760
Speaker 14: bonus multimedia trans scripts of episodes, and I should say

1971
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:04,960
Speaker 14: early episodes, So if you want to binge the episodes

1972
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:08,280
Speaker 14: that we're putting out early, it's all there at levernews

1973
01:35:08,280 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 14: dot com. Become a subscriber and I will just add

1974
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,840
Speaker 14: one thing you will see as a subscriber. We put

1975
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 14: some of the documents that we found on our website

1976
01:35:18,280 --> 01:35:21,360
Speaker 14: for subscribers. Some of this stuff will blow your mind.

1977
01:35:21,400 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 14: What's amazing to me in doing this reporting is they

1978
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 14: wrote it all down.

1979
01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:29,640
Speaker 8: Right, Like if you dig far enough, they wrote.

1980
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:32,599
Speaker 14: Down their entire plan in secret memos, white house memos

1981
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:32,960
Speaker 14: and the like.

1982
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:34,560
Speaker 8: It's all there on our website.

1983
01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1984
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, I've listened to the first two episodes and you

1985
01:35:37,200 --> 01:35:40,759
Speaker 1: guys did go deep. I'm listening to Nixon secret audio

1986
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:44,519
Speaker 1: recordings and learning about Rosemary's baby with the secret donor

1987
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 1: list that they that they hit as well. So really

1988
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: really highly recommend kudos to you for putting this together, David.

1989
01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:52,759
Speaker 1: I know it was a lot of work and as always,

1990
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:53,559
Speaker 1: great to see my friends.

1991
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:55,679
Speaker 8: Good to see you man, Thank you, thanks to both

1992
01:35:55,680 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 8: of you.

1993
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's our pleasure all right, guys. We have a

1994
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 2: great counterpoint show for everyone tomorrow.

1995
01:35:59,280 --> 01:35:59,920
Speaker 3: We'll see you later.

1996
01:36:01,240 --> 01:36:03,000
Speaker 2: People wanted to be putt