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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Friday, everybody, hopeful if you guys had an incredible week.
Speaker 2: We have very special guests today, Carson Breber and Logan
Speaker 2: Camden from the nerd SESSH. You guys have probably seen
Speaker 2: these guys come on the show. They went on a
Speaker 2: few times last year. Carson's been on a few more
Speaker 2: times than that. I've been on their show a few times,
Speaker 2: but I'm very very We're gonna be breaking down everything
Speaker 2: from yesterday as well as the n Season Tournament championship game,
Speaker 2: which is going to be tomorrow, and then two other
Speaker 2: questions from around the league having to do with the
Speaker 2: Pelicans and the Warriors. But before we get started, what's up, guys,
Speaker 2: Please tell everybody about your new YouTube channel where they
Speaker 2: can find you. I want to make sure, because you
Speaker 2: guys just like what I just went through about a
Speaker 2: month ago. You guys are launching a new channel. I
Speaker 2: want to help get that off the ground as best
Speaker 2: as we can. Tell everybody where to find your stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as you said, we have our on YouTube
Speaker 3: page now if you just look up nerd Sesh should
Speaker 3: be the first result. As you mentioned, Jason, we just
Speaker 3: had you onto our show last week, which was super great,
Speaker 3: so you can check that out. We've got a new
Speaker 3: trivia show up today. We're doing some in depth video essay,
Speaker 3: in depth breakdowns of some specific NBA players. We've got
Speaker 3: one up about a guy who we're going to talk
Speaker 3: about today, Tyres Haliburton. So all of that is at
Speaker 3: the nerd Sesh page.
Speaker 2: Yeah. To put it simply, I enjoy talking basketball with
Speaker 2: these guys because they both know the game and they
Speaker 2: put in the work and they know well. They do
Speaker 2: a much better job covering some of the more off
Speaker 2: the beaten path NBA topics two than I do. I
Speaker 2: highly recommend you guys go check them out. But let's
Speaker 2: get to last night. So Lebron obviously thirty points on
Speaker 2: twelve shots, four to four from three eight assis zero turnovers,
Speaker 2: first player in NBA history to put up a thirty
Speaker 2: five and five in less than twenty three minutes, which
Speaker 2: is an absolutely insane stat. I would say that on
Speaker 2: a per minute basis, that was one of the most
Speaker 2: dominant games of his career, as he literally snatched the
Speaker 2: soul of the New Orleans Pelicans for the world to see.
Speaker 2: For the season, now twenty five points, eight rebound, seven assists,
Speaker 2: sixty five percent true shooting, his highest true shooting percentage
Speaker 2: since twenty fourteen, the second highest of his career, two
Speaker 2: point two stocks per game. That's thirtieth in the NBA.
Speaker 2: Not nothing, Lakers are twenty one point two points per
Speaker 2: one hundred possessions better with him on the floor versus off.
Speaker 2: According to Cleaning the Glass, the jump SHOT's been dead
Speaker 2: one point one points per jump shot, one point two
Speaker 2: to four points per catch and shoot jump shot. In particular,
Speaker 2: where he's been red hot. He's one of only two
Speaker 2: players in the NBA to have attempted at least seven
Speaker 2: shots per game in the restricted area, and he sho
Speaker 2: and shoot over seventy percent on them. It's him and Giannis.
Speaker 2: Thirty six players this year have ran at least two
Speaker 2: hundred pick and rolls, including passes. His one point zero
Speaker 2: nine points per possession ranks seventh out of those thirty
Speaker 2: six players, despite some pretty bad off ball shooting. He's
Speaker 2: also second in total fourth quarter points scored this year
Speaker 2: and fifth in total clutch points scored this year. The
Speaker 2: Lakers have been the third best clutch team in the
Speaker 2: league by win percentage. As well. I say all that
Speaker 2: to ask this, does Lebron deserve to be in the
Speaker 2: MVP conversation?
Speaker 3: I would not put him in the upper echaloons of
Speaker 3: this conversation, just because I think you have to look
Speaker 3: at a The Lakers are not among the elite regular
Speaker 3: season teams at this point. I think that the they
Speaker 3: have the potential to get there, especially if they hit
Speaker 3: on a mid season trade. But this is a team
Speaker 3: whose effort can wax and wane, and that applies to
Speaker 3: Lebron as well. I think that when he is dialed in,
Speaker 3: this is the best Lebron that we have seen since
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, when he was the best player on the
Speaker 3: planet pretty indisputably and the best player on a title team. Now,
Speaker 3: I would say that he has no argument for the
Speaker 3: best player in the world title anymore. He is not
Speaker 3: that level of player. But when you consider some of
Speaker 3: the health issues that he's endured where we haven't seen him,
Speaker 3: maybe this explosively athletic, especially if you look at the
Speaker 3: playoff run last year when he was really hampered by
Speaker 3: the foot injury, when he was struggling with the jumper,
Speaker 3: when he wasn't able to impose himself offensively as consistently
Speaker 3: as we're used to from him, There's no question that
Speaker 3: this is unimproved and a wildly impressive Lebron. So to me,
Speaker 3: it's not so much about him really pushing for that MVP.
Speaker 3: Not I think that there are guys who just night
Speaker 3: to night are putting forth such massive efforts and are
Speaker 3: so responsible for carrying their teams singularly to being elite
Speaker 3: Nicole Jokic, if it's Joel Embiid. What's so encouraging to
Speaker 3: me about this is that when he picks his spots,
Speaker 3: this Lebron looks so unbelievable. It is the most efficient
Speaker 3: Lebron we have ever seen. You read a lot of
Speaker 3: those great stats off Jason. He is shooting his career
Speaker 3: best percentage on twos and on threes. Now you have
Speaker 3: this unbelievable combination of him having a career jump shooting season,
Speaker 3: and we saw it in this game. It was a
Speaker 3: shot making clinic. You have the stretch where he pulls
Speaker 3: the back to back logo threes, just obscene. You have
Speaker 3: not long after that, the really tough runner and won
Speaker 3: like just incredible skilled shot making combined with an ability
Speaker 3: to attack mismatches and to really pick on the easy
Speaker 3: stuff so efficiently. And that's another thing that stood out
Speaker 3: from this game when you put up numbers like this
Speaker 3: in twenty three minutes on the floor. Yes, you have
Speaker 3: to shoot the ball really well, as he did, but
Speaker 3: hunting the easy stuff starting from his first basket of
Speaker 3: the day where he just gets that post seal and
Speaker 3: it's an easy layup. You have a smart cut from
Speaker 3: him in this game. He's getting out in treransition repeatedly,
Speaker 3: like he is doing such a good job of maximizing
Speaker 3: his advantages without having to put excessive stress on his body.
Speaker 3: And then situationally, you see in the efficiency you mentioned
Speaker 3: the fourth quarter numbers, he's eight and a half points
Speaker 3: per game there on fifty nine percent shooting. This is
Speaker 3: an unbelievable version of Lebron, who is just putting forth
Speaker 3: to me, by far, the most impressive demonstration of longevity,
Speaker 3: not just an NBA history, I would argue in sports history.
Speaker 3: If you try to make the cross sports comparisons, Brady
Speaker 3: plays until he's forty five, but that's a position that
Speaker 3: is so much less dependent on athleticism. Lebron is still
Speaker 3: a top tier athlete in the NBA today and we
Speaker 3: see that every night whenever he wants to show it.
Speaker 3: That's never happened for a guy who was knocking on
Speaker 3: the door of thirty nine. When you think about the
Speaker 3: dudes who could still put up twenty plus at this age,
Speaker 3: it's Kareem who had this unbelievable size advantage and then
Speaker 3: this great skilled shot making. It's Karl Malone, who was
Speaker 3: this post machine. You've never seen a guy with this
Speaker 3: sort of explosiveness. There's still probably fewer than a handful
Speaker 3: of guys who are better all around athletes than Lebron
Speaker 3: in the NBA today, and that is so encouraging for
Speaker 3: the Lakers ceiling because we saw in the playoff run
Speaker 3: last year they need him to carry a pretty heavy
Speaker 3: burden if this team wants to be really good. Offensively.
Speaker 3: They certainly need him to be better than he was
Speaker 3: in that run last year when he was hampered, and
Speaker 3: I think there is every sign right now that he
Speaker 3: is capable of doing that.
Speaker 1: And considering what a large question mark that was coming
Speaker 1: into the season, Carson, it has to be encouraging for
Speaker 1: the Lakers ceiling. I think there is one more aspect
Speaker 1: of why I wouldn't have Lebron in the upper echelon
Speaker 1: MVP conversation, and that's because he does have Anthony Davis.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to understell how imperative Anthony Davis
Speaker 1: is to this team winning basketball games, and what he
Speaker 1: does on the defensive side of the ball, and how
Speaker 1: great he has been over the last ten games. You know,
Speaker 1: Lebron is dominating and it is remarkable. I've never seen
Speaker 1: anything like this from a guy from an athlete his
Speaker 1: age but eighties, twenty four, fourteen and three on sixty
Speaker 1: one percent through shooting over the last ten games. He's
Speaker 1: been good defensively, and so I think that plays against
Speaker 1: Lebron's MVP case, But like you said, I think it
Speaker 1: is why it's really encouraging about this Lakers team moving
Speaker 1: forward towards playoff time. Ad rounding in the form Lebron,
Speaker 1: rounding in the form guys are shooting better, d Lo,
Speaker 1: Taarian Prince and Lebron all over forty percent from deep
Speaker 1: over the last ten. That's, you know, withstanding A Reeves,
Speaker 1: you know, bad shooting stretch, and this team is clicking
Speaker 1: a lot more defensively. I have loved the energy and
Speaker 1: the effort of these last couple of games. And again,
Speaker 1: you don't want to give them too much credit because
Speaker 1: the Lakers, we know they can. It's a flip of
Speaker 1: a coin on what you're going to get that day.
Speaker 1: But I have liked their energy and effort. With Vanderbilt back,
Speaker 1: it seems like all the pieces are coming together in
Speaker 1: the biggest variable, and all this was Lebron and AD.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I don't know about you guys,
Speaker 1: but with this version of Lebron and this version of
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis, I mean, it does feel like we're on
Speaker 1: the cusp of a potential playoff run.
Speaker 2: Right, We'll get there, We'll get there. I want to
Speaker 2: I want to get I want to dive into the
Speaker 2: Lakers here in just a minute. I will say that
Speaker 2: I agree with you guys that I don't think Lebron
Speaker 2: is in the upper echelon of the MVP conversation. I
Speaker 2: let me put it this way. I think he's good
Speaker 2: enough right now that if he went for it, he'd
Speaker 2: have an outside chance of getting it. Like, because let's
Speaker 2: just put it simply, you can tell that there have
Speaker 2: been about a third of the games this year where
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm gonna go after it tonight, and like
Speaker 2: in those games, he's looked like the best player in
Speaker 2: the world in those games, like at least I shouldn't
Speaker 2: say like definitively, but he's been at that level. Like
Speaker 2: he's been he has been contributing to winning an at
Speaker 2: a high MVP level during those third of the games
Speaker 2: where he's carried And it's very clear this week he's like,
Speaker 2: I'm winning these games, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 2: there's a lot of chill mode going on. And for
Speaker 2: the record, I think that's smart. Like I think Lebron
Speaker 2: going for the MVP this year would be absolutely stupid,
Speaker 2: like just an incredible way of resources one. Like, just
Speaker 2: from the standpoint of the voters, he's got a very
Speaker 2: small chance of actually getting it, just because of all
Speaker 2: the fatigue, the Anthony Davis element Laker anti Laker bias,
Speaker 2: Like I thought Lebron was clearly the MVP in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty and he didn't get it, and so like at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, like it's just not worth it.
Speaker 2: But that said, I think in terms of like his
Speaker 2: individual ceiling, this is the best I've seen him look
Speaker 2: since twenty twenty. Like he just the efficiency, the jump shot,
Speaker 2: the playmaking that like, like, and even with when it
Speaker 2: comes to the scoring volume, it mostly has to do
Speaker 2: with the fact that he's attempting the fewest number of
Speaker 2: shots in his entire career and because he's on you know,
Speaker 2: half to two thirds of the night's kind of in
Speaker 2: chill mode. Like I'm just I feel really confident now
Speaker 2: from that specific spot, the Lebron spot, that in big moments,
Speaker 2: Lebron can turn it up and hit that top tier,
Speaker 2: superstar level, providing he doesn't get hurt at some point
Speaker 2: this season, And that simply was not there last year. No,
Speaker 2: Like he just wasn't that good last year. No.
Speaker 3: I mean there was maybe two games in that playoff
Speaker 3: run where you saw him totally dial in. It was
Speaker 3: Game six against the Warriors, and it was Game four
Speaker 3: against the Nuggets, a close out spot and a do
Speaker 3: or die spot where it is just I am going
Speaker 3: to make the most of my physical advantages every possession
Speaker 3: and I am going to fully exert myself for forty
Speaker 3: eight minutes. And you saw just this unbelievable ability to
Speaker 3: bruise guys in the post, to attack with such efficiency
Speaker 3: and transition. But I mean, over the totality of that
Speaker 3: playoff run, Lebron wasn't a top ten player in the league.
Speaker 3: I mean, right, he definitely had a positive defensive impact.
Speaker 3: It was great to see him dial in there, but offensively,
Speaker 3: he was overly relyant on the jumper. I mean, he
Speaker 3: was an average efficiency twenty five point per game score
Speaker 3: who wasn't dictating offense with the same level of playmaking
Speaker 3: brilliance that were used to from him. And I think
Speaker 3: we can attribute a lot of that now that we
Speaker 3: see how he looks revitalized and healthy to that foot injury.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think foot injury and I think he got in
Speaker 2: the lab this summer. I think it's both.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree, But I wasn't sure exactly how
Speaker 3: much of a role that played, right, I didn't know
Speaker 3: if he could get back to this level, and now
Speaker 3: that he has, I don't know if there's a handful
Speaker 3: of guys who I would rather have than him in
Speaker 3: a single game do or die scenario, just because I
Speaker 3: know how dominant he can be dictating the game. We
Speaker 3: don't see Lebron running fifteen pick and roll as a
Speaker 3: game anymore, but I do believe that if it came
Speaker 3: down to an elimination game, he could and he could
Speaker 3: be absolutely masterful there. And you combine that with the
Speaker 3: jump shooting at this level, all the efficient stuff he's
Speaker 3: able to do off ball, and in transition, I mean,
Speaker 3: this is like a terrifyingly good basketball player at almost
Speaker 3: thirty nine years old. It's unbelievable, and it is vital,
Speaker 3: vital to the Lakers ceiling this year.
Speaker 1: And like go ahead, logan, Oh sorry, I just wanted
Speaker 1: to mention just the defense too. Man, when Lebron's been
Speaker 1: engaged defensively, he's been one of the best defensive players
Speaker 1: on the planet this season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is he's He has always been an extremely gifted
Speaker 2: lowman when he actually cares to do the job, which,
Speaker 2: again as in terms of the actual distribution of his resources,
Speaker 2: makes sense to me. But like there's been like five
Speaker 2: or six games this year like that Suns game where
Speaker 2: it's been the fourth quarter and it's like every time
Speaker 2: down the floor, I'm getting a bucket or I'm setting
Speaker 2: a guy up for a wide open shot, like where
Speaker 2: it's like that like top top tier perimeter initiator, half
Speaker 2: court surgeon thing, and that just was not there last year,
Speaker 2: and I think that is it has. Again, we framed
Speaker 2: this as MVP conversation. We're all in the same page
Speaker 2: that he's not going to win it, that he's not
Speaker 2: really all that high up on that list, but just
Speaker 2: the fact that he has been able to reach that
Speaker 2: level is more important than any trade, more important than
Speaker 2: anything else having to do with the Lakers this season. Now,
Speaker 2: on the Lakers, since they're three and five start, which
Speaker 2: again it is important to mention that their high motor
Speaker 2: athletes were all out with injuries, which was a significant
Speaker 2: hindrance to what the team was capable of achieving. Last
Speaker 2: fifteen games eleven and four, second best record in the
Speaker 2: league over that span, second best defensive rating in the
Speaker 2: league over that span, and again, fifteen games, that's two
Speaker 2: thirds of the games we've played so far. Sixth in
Speaker 2: defensive rebound percentage over that span. They had a rough
Speaker 2: stretch there at the beginning last night where they were
Speaker 2: really struggling to box out the Pelicans were doing a
Speaker 2: good job crashing out of the weak side corner and
Speaker 2: catching them sleeping. But for the most part, they've cleaned
Speaker 2: up that issue, which was a big problem earlier in
Speaker 2: the season. The offense is bad, but there are three
Speaker 2: stats that I think are encouraging. One, they have a
Speaker 2: one to fifteen point three offensive rating with Lebron on
Speaker 2: the floor, that would be the eleventh best in the
Speaker 2: NBA if you actually kind of branched that out to
Speaker 2: the big picture. One hundred and eighteen offensive rating and
Speaker 2: clutch situations. They've never had issues scoring in the clutch
Speaker 2: for the most part. And then one hundred and nineteen
Speaker 2: offensive rating this week in big, high leverage situations. I
Speaker 2: also think it's worth mentioning that they I don't think
Speaker 2: the Lakers are a good shooting team, but they're not
Speaker 2: as bad as they've shown so far this year either.
Speaker 2: I think that's important to mention. After last night, they
Speaker 2: have nine wins against five hundred or better teams, which
Speaker 2: is tied with the Boston Celtics for the most in
Speaker 2: the league. Lakers are now plus fifteen hundred to win
Speaker 2: the title, which is the six best odds in the league.
Speaker 2: Philly and Phoenix are ahead of them. Phoenix is plus
Speaker 2: seven hundred, so Vegas is viewing Phoenix as a substantial
Speaker 2: better title favorite than the Lakers. Are the Lakers now
Speaker 2: the best value bet to win the title this year.
Speaker 2: Let's start with you, Logan, Yeah, it kind of seems
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: I've been back and forth on that. I've been having
Speaker 1: that internal debate this entire time. Suns, Lakers and the
Speaker 1: Nail and the Coffin, for me, probably was the head
Speaker 1: to head matchup that we saw between the two. Now,
Speaker 1: granted we have not seen the Phoenix Suns yet with
Speaker 1: Bradley Beal. We still need to see what that team
Speaker 1: looks like at full health of all their superstars, and
Speaker 1: I still think that could be the difference maker. But
Speaker 1: the Suns played really sloppy, and again when the Lakers
Speaker 1: were engaged in that first half, they completely shut down
Speaker 1: that offense. Again, they are without Radley Beal, but it
Speaker 1: was really sloppy. They forced a ton of turnovers, They
Speaker 1: were really active physically, and they disappear in the second
Speaker 1: half a little bit. They kind of do their Lakers things.
Speaker 1: But I think I do prefer the Lakers more and
Speaker 1: I still think that they're I do think they're the
Speaker 1: best value bet probably to win the finals right now.
Speaker 1: Preseason I said the Lakers were my pick to win
Speaker 1: the title, And like you guys have laid out in
Speaker 1: this segment, I think that a lot of the key
Speaker 1: components of this run are coming together really slowly. You
Speaker 1: say this isn't a good shooting team, Jason, A lot
Speaker 1: of guys are up near forty percent over the last fifteen.
Speaker 1: It's not about them being a great, reliable shooting team
Speaker 1: this entire season. It's about them being hot and creating
Speaker 1: open looks at the right time. I trust these guys
Speaker 1: to make shots come playoff time. The one outlier is
Speaker 1: probably de Lo shooting like forty six percent from deep
Speaker 1: over the last fifteen.
Speaker 2: But hopefully that can give you he won't be here.
Speaker 2: Very true, Very true. But a lot of them, by
Speaker 2: the way, I'm not trying to slander of go.
Speaker 1: Ahead, the shooting, the defense, Lebron and Anthony Davis hitting
Speaker 1: their peaks again. That's my biggest question, and I want
Speaker 1: to see where your guys gauge is on this. If
Speaker 1: Lebron can keep up this level come playoff time, if
Speaker 1: he can give you thirty six minutes of this at
Speaker 1: this level, does Anthony Davis need to reach a higher
Speaker 1: level offensively than what we've seen this year for them
Speaker 1: to win the title?
Speaker 3: If they want to win the title, I think a
Speaker 3: lot of things have to go right as currently constructed.
Speaker 3: I still don't think that they have that sort of ceiling,
Speaker 3: as Jason hinted at, as we talked about when we
Speaker 3: had you on our show last week, Jason, we are
Speaker 3: in unanimous agreement that something needs to be done about
Speaker 3: the current back configuration so they can get rid of
Speaker 3: some of the more redundant traits that you have with
Speaker 3: Dilo Ann Reeves. Reeves is a better basketball player, He's
Speaker 3: less prone to shooting you in the foot with those
Speaker 3: stretches where he's just making bad decisions offensively, etc. Etc.
Speaker 3: Until they figure those things out, I do not believe
Speaker 3: this Lakers team can win the title, just because I
Speaker 3: think the Denver Nuggets are that overwhelmingly good, presuming that
Speaker 3: they are at health now. I do think that Anthony
Speaker 3: Davis needs to be more consistently imposing offensively than what
Speaker 3: we saw last year in the playoffs if they want
Speaker 3: to make a run that deep. But to Jason's question,
Speaker 3: I think that there's a strong case to be made.
Speaker 3: First of all, I'm just not in love with these
Speaker 3: odds in general. The Clippers are plus eighteen hundred and
Speaker 3: the Timberwls are plus twenty five hundred. I just don't
Speaker 3: know what could possibly indicate that the Clippers are a
Speaker 3: better team, even in a playoff setting than Minnesota. I
Speaker 3: think Minnesota makes a real strong case to be my
Speaker 3: second favorite out West. They're just so dominant defensively, and
Speaker 3: I think they have a good formula offensively if Ant
Speaker 3: reaches that superstar level and Cat pulls his weight, just
Speaker 3: a really good basketball team. But I definitely like the
Speaker 3: Lakers more than the Suns, and I think it's a
Speaker 3: brutal matchup, specifically for Phoenix, because how do you lose
Speaker 3: a game where you shoot fifty percent from the field
Speaker 3: and forty eight percent from three and the other team
Speaker 3: shoots forty percent on twos and thirty percent from three.
Speaker 3: As we just saw happen earlier this week. The Suns
Speaker 3: were the team that shot the hell out of the ball.
Speaker 3: The Lakers really struggled to make shots. It's when the
Speaker 3: other team has overwhelming physical advantages. Now the Suns turn
Speaker 3: the ball over too much, but the Lakers also dominated.
Speaker 3: They were plus thirteen on the od offensive boards. And
Speaker 3: I think that you saw again a very dialed in
Speaker 3: Lebron there, who can basically mismatch hunt with anyone on
Speaker 3: the floor. It is just so easy. He can go
Speaker 3: at NRK so easily out of pick and roll. He
Speaker 3: can run pick and roll actions with Austin Reeves and
Speaker 3: get Grayson Allen switched on to him, and there's really
Speaker 3: nobody one on one. Kdi is far too slight. Eric
Speaker 3: Gordon's just too short and small who can do anything,
Speaker 3: and getting back Bradley Beal does nothing to help them
Speaker 3: with that problem. I also think Ada is a problematic matchup,
Speaker 3: So I believe that the Lakers' physical advantages there and
Speaker 3: their two way ceiling are just too great when Lebron
Speaker 3: is playing at this level. And I do believe that
Speaker 3: in big time situations they can produce good offense. Because
Speaker 3: of that for me to believe in Phoenix over them,
Speaker 3: So I still view the Lakers as a legitimately flawed
Speaker 3: team in a way that the Bucks, the Celtics, the
Speaker 3: Nuggets just are not. But after that, I do really
Speaker 3: believe in their ceiling. I do like them more than
Speaker 3: the Suns, So there's a case to be made.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm so annoyed by some of the discourse
Speaker 2: coming out of that Sun's Lakers game on Tuesday, because
Speaker 2: I thought the Lakers were so clearly the better team,
Speaker 2: Like the amount of stuff that had to break right
Speaker 2: for Phoenix to even have a chance to win that game.
Speaker 2: The bizarre stretch where Darvin ham lea leaves Lebron and
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis both off the floor in the first half,
Speaker 2: wild Devin Booker and Kevin Durray were on the floor,
Speaker 2: which ended in a five to zero run that took
Speaker 2: about fifteen seconds before darvinham realized his mistake and called
Speaker 2: a time out. To the Lakers coming out of the
Speaker 2: halftime locker room sleepwalking and giving up a fourteen zero
Speaker 2: run that kind of turned it into a game. Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis literally missed eleven shots in the restricted area in
Speaker 2: that game, including five in the fourth quarter, and for
Speaker 2: the most part, if you look at like if you
Speaker 2: know how those Carson, you know these graphs on Synergy
Speaker 2: where you kind of see the bar graph having to
Speaker 2: do with the lead. It was all purple. The Lakers
Speaker 2: had to lead the entire game, basically outside of a
Speaker 2: couple of brief stretches, and so again, like I like,
Speaker 2: had the Suns won that game, they would have gotten
Speaker 2: away with murderer in my opinion, because I thought the
Speaker 2: Lakers were clearly better. I don't really see that as
Speaker 2: a matchup now. I think I disagree with the framing
Speaker 2: of what you said, Carson, from the standpoint of like,
Speaker 2: I don't think as currently constructed, they can't win the title.
Speaker 2: I just think they're clearly a Tier two contender, meaning
Speaker 2: like meaning like things would have to go right, Like
Speaker 2: they'd need to get excellent shooting out of Cam Reddish,
Speaker 2: they'd have to get Lebron at this level for the
Speaker 2: entire playoff run. They'd have to get you know, Nikola Jokic,
Speaker 2: to have Nikola jokicch and Jamal Murray in particular to shoot,
Speaker 2: like I would say that, like the Nuggets also shot
Speaker 2: well last year. If they shot at their norm and
Speaker 2: the Lakers shot above their norm, they might have an
Speaker 2: outside chance in a six or seven game series to
Speaker 2: steal it. But the Nuggets would be a clear favorite,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, like a substantial favorite, like you would
Speaker 2: expect them to win the series, but I'd give the
Speaker 2: Lakers a puncher's chance. I also disagree that that with
Speaker 2: the way you portray the Bucks as a team without
Speaker 2: a flaw. I think the Bucks and the Lakers are both.
Speaker 2: They're both in that say. I think it's like nugget
Speaker 2: Celtics small gap, Lakers, Bucks, the Timberwolves small gap. Then
Speaker 2: we get to the Suns and the and the Warriors
Speaker 2: based on whatever potential trade they could make, which we'll
Speaker 2: talk about them in a little bit now. As far
Speaker 2: as the Lakers go on the trade front, that's obviously
Speaker 2: the direction they're going to go. They once again this
Speaker 2: week and the Sun's game, had to leave both Ruy
Speaker 2: Hachimura and D'Angelo Russell on the bench in closing time,
Speaker 2: which is just a bad use of resources. So like
Speaker 2: they're going to make some sort of move to upgrade
Speaker 2: those positions. I think if they nail that trade, like
Speaker 2: if they do get a Jeremy Grant, if they do
Speaker 2: get a lower market in if they do get a
Speaker 2: Pascal Si Yakam if they do, like if they nail
Speaker 2: that trade and somehow jump in there and swoop in
Speaker 2: and steal one of those guys, I think they enter
Speaker 2: the same tier as the Denver Nuggets. But I don't
Speaker 2: think it would make them a favorite over the Nuggets either.
Speaker 2: I just think I think it's important to recognize, like
Speaker 2: this team as currently constructed, with Lebron playing at a
Speaker 2: much higher level than he was last year and more
Speaker 2: wing depth, makes them a little bit more of a
Speaker 2: puncher's chance favorite than they were last year. But I
Speaker 2: still view them as a clear tier too. Now, Carson,
Speaker 2: you look like you want to call me an idiot,
Speaker 2: So let's get started on this now.
Speaker 3: No, No, I don't. Well, first off, I just wanted
Speaker 3: to clarify the Bucks absolutely do have a weakness their
Speaker 3: point of attack defense. We've talked about it has to
Speaker 3: be addressed in some way. You cannot try out a
Speaker 3: backcourt of Dame and Malik Beasley if you want to
Speaker 3: win the title. I just think they have some more
Speaker 3: overwhelming advantages. I think their offensive ceiling is so high.
Speaker 3: I do think that they have more top end talents,
Speaker 3: so that's why I put them in a bit of
Speaker 3: a different tier. It's really tough for me to envision
Speaker 3: this Lakers team as currently constructed beating the Nuggets. What
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you is like, would it
Speaker 3: require an injury to a Nugget starter or you think
Speaker 3: healthy with some shooting variants going their way, with Lebron
Speaker 3: playing his best, this Lakers scene can beat the Nuggets
Speaker 3: in a seven game series, because that's pretty hard for
Speaker 3: me to see.
Speaker 2: Well, again, a much less a much less version of
Speaker 2: Lebron last year, with significantly less wing depth was in
Speaker 2: all four of those games, And specifically, the Lakers have
Speaker 2: been a much much better clutch team on both ends
Speaker 2: of the floor this year than last year. Now, again,
Speaker 2: I want to be clear, like I'm saying that there's
Speaker 2: a puncher's chance, like if if Jokic doesn't shoot forty
Speaker 2: seven percent from three or whatever he shot in that series,
Speaker 2: and if Jamal Murray doesn't play literally like a like
Speaker 2: Jamal Murray's best series was the Lakers series. He was
Speaker 2: incredible in that series, and so like, if some of
Speaker 2: those things break differently, I think the Lakers could end
Speaker 2: up in a Game five in Denver two to two
Speaker 2: close game, fourth quarter, Lebron gets hot, they steal it.
Speaker 2: Then they go home and play this wildly good defensive
Speaker 2: game in Game six and they win. Like I, this
Speaker 2: kind of thing does happen like some like the seven
Speaker 2: game series. Thing does in the majority of situations lead
Speaker 2: to the best team winning, But it also does there
Speaker 2: are versions of it where it goes another way. And
Speaker 2: so again, I just I would give them a puncher's chance.
Speaker 2: But I think that's the extent of our disagreement there.
Speaker 2: I think we both agree that the Lakers will make
Speaker 2: a trade, And honestly, it's just it's just not even
Speaker 2: worth really looking at their all, their actual ceiling and
Speaker 2: potential until we get to that point. I do want
Speaker 2: to move just because we've gone for a while now
Speaker 2: I want to I do want to move on to
Speaker 2: the Pacers. So Tyrus Alibert four hundred and ninety nine
Speaker 2: pick and rolls in ISOs this year, leading to six
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty nine points one point twenty six points
Speaker 2: per possession. That's the best self creator in the league
Speaker 2: this year. Thirty six players have run at least two
Speaker 2: hundred pick and roles. The one we talked about with
Speaker 2: Lebron where he finished at seventh. He's first on that list,
Speaker 2: a full seven points per one hundred percent ahead of
Speaker 2: second place, which was Devin Booker. That's completely ridiculous. A
Speaker 2: Tyrese Haliburton jumper this year has been worth one point
Speaker 2: twenty nine points. A catch and shoot jumper from Tyres
Speaker 2: has been worth one point four to one points, pull
Speaker 2: ups one point twenty six. There doesn't seem to be
Speaker 2: a coverage that works against him.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: We saw first of all, completely picked apart the Celtics.
Speaker 2: Then yesterday he torched the Bucks in their high drop coverage.
Speaker 2: He torched the Bucks when they went with a low
Speaker 2: drop coverage. He torched the Bucks when they went to
Speaker 2: a switching scheme. He obviously there was only a handful
Speaker 2: of possessions against the zone, but they didn't have any
Speaker 2: trouble scoring against the zone as well getting the ball
Speaker 2: to the middle of the floor to Bruce Brown. There
Speaker 2: just was nothing they could do with the guy. And
Speaker 2: I mean they had a one to twenty offensive rating
Speaker 2: against that Boston Celtics team, which has been the second defense,
Speaker 2: the second best defense in the league this year. I
Speaker 2: so I did a rant in my show yesterday where
Speaker 2: I said that I believe Tyrese Haliburton is on. He's
Speaker 2: the next in that group of guys that is, you know,
Speaker 2: truly has the potential to be a pantheon type of player.
Speaker 2: To me, he's Steve Nash with more athleticism, in a
Speaker 2: little bit better size. He legitimately, in my opinion, if
Speaker 2: he stays healthy and makes the moderate improvements on the
Speaker 2: margins and on the defensive end, I think he has
Speaker 2: the potential to be an all time great. Do you
Speaker 2: guys agree with me? Let's start with Carson.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that if we are looking at the
Speaker 3: guys who are let's say under twenty five in the
Speaker 3: league today, he's in the top five who you want
Speaker 3: to build around. You have to have Luca. I think
Speaker 3: you have to have Wemby, and then I think that
Speaker 3: I would probably go aunt Tyres and then chet Holmger
Speaker 3: and shout out Chad. I think he is like a
Speaker 3: perfect modern center. But Tyree is unbelievable. And you read
Speaker 3: off some of the just mind blowing stats about his
Speaker 3: production this year. I've got some more that I will
Speaker 3: now recite. The Pacers are three point four points ahead
Speaker 3: in terms of offensive rating, of the number two offense
Speaker 3: in the NBA right now, that would be the widest
Speaker 3: margin between the number one offense in the league and
Speaker 3: the number two offense since nineteen eighty two, and Tyres
Speaker 3: is propelling that unit inarguably without another All Star level talent,
Speaker 3: which is a very rare thing to lead, first of all,
Speaker 3: a convincing number one offense. But there's only really two
Speaker 3: other instances this century of one superstar offensive talent carrying
Speaker 3: a group without another All Star level guy to the
Speaker 3: number one offense. It's the twenty twenty MAVs Luca doing
Speaker 3: that in his second season with just a collection of
Speaker 3: good shooters and solid rim finishers, just unbelievable control of
Speaker 3: the game, lethal scoring and playmaking threat. And then it's
Speaker 3: the two thousand and six Maps with Dirk Novitsky. Outside
Speaker 3: of that, there's some other teams that only had one
Speaker 3: All Star, but there's clearly multiple all star talents, right
Speaker 3: It's the twenty eighteen Rockets, who had Chris Paul wasn't
Speaker 3: an All Star stuff like that, So he's in rarefied
Speaker 3: air in terms of the singular impact that he is
Speaker 3: having propelling an elite team offense with out star level talent. Now,
Speaker 3: he has very good complimentary talents, right. He has guys
Speaker 3: who are very good in transition, which is fundamental to
Speaker 3: their identity and a great strength of his. And he
Speaker 3: has awesome spot up shooters. So he's got good play finishers.
Speaker 3: But he is manufacturing so much of the offense here,
Speaker 3: really really impressive. Historically, if you look at his individual
Speaker 3: production and efficiency, nobody has ever averaged twenty five points
Speaker 3: in twelve assists per game in NBA history period point blank.
Speaker 3: Halli is doing that right now on plus nine point
Speaker 3: eight percent true shooting versus league average. Nobody has ever
Speaker 3: averaged twelve assists per game with fewer than two and
Speaker 3: a half turnovers per game. Hollie is doing that right now.
Speaker 3: The only other player ever to shoot forty four percent
Speaker 3: from three on eight and a half attempts per game
Speaker 3: is twenty sixteen Steph Curry. We are simultaneously seeing one
Speaker 3: of the all time great jump shooting seasons, one of
Speaker 3: the all time great playmaking seasons, and one of the
Speaker 3: all time great seasons in terms of amplifying team offense.
Speaker 3: It is unbelievable. I think he is inarguably a top
Speaker 3: two shooter in basketball right now, nobody other than Steph
Speaker 3: is able to blend this volume both on and off
Speaker 3: ball with this lethal efficiency. Shoots forty four percent on
Speaker 3: pull up threes and then I think he's at like
Speaker 3: forty eight percent off the catch. Just disgusting. And I
Speaker 3: think that as a playmaker, you see this incredible ability
Speaker 3: to amplify his teammates to really create advantages while also
Speaker 3: limiting mistakes. And often people will say that a sign
Speaker 3: of really low turnovers probably means that a guy isn't
Speaker 3: being creative enough as a playmaker, that he isn't taking
Speaker 3: enough risk, that he isn't trying to fit enough of
Speaker 3: those passes into tight gaps, or maybe a hit a
Speaker 3: head pass and transition and he just slightly overshoots it.
Speaker 3: You should be aggressive creating advantages and if that leads
Speaker 3: to a couple more turnovers, that's okay. I think Hallie's
Speaker 3: in a really healthy blend where, Yeah, he's not Jokic audacious,
Speaker 3: he's not Magic Johnson audacious, he's not Luca audacious, but
Speaker 3: he is an aggressive passer who's just never stupid. He's
Speaker 3: almost never inaccurate. I mean, he's just unbelievable. His decision
Speaker 3: making is basically flawless. And Jason, You're so right about
Speaker 3: him against every coverage, pick and roll. His ability to
Speaker 3: manipulate defenders, to move them with his eyes to open
Speaker 3: up whatever passing angle he wants incredible. He can make
Speaker 3: every pass out of those actions. When teams try to
Speaker 3: trap him, he is so composed, so effective in dissecting
Speaker 3: those actions, not just getting the ball out. I think
Speaker 3: about that game where he was just torching the Hawks,
Speaker 3: like the ultimate offensive game this season, where they both
Speaker 3: were up in the one fifties, and they start trapping
Speaker 3: him at half court and he is making the best
Speaker 3: possible pass on the floor Obie Top and is opening
Speaker 3: the dunker spot forty feet away. He's trapped, he rises
Speaker 3: up and just fires that pass in there. It's so
Speaker 3: so rare. And when you combine that with the takeover
Speaker 3: scoring that he does have because of this unbelievable pull
Speaker 3: up shooting, because I mean, he is a big ball handler,
Speaker 3: and he is lethal from floiada range, and he's a
Speaker 3: pretty good athlete. You see with a couple of the
Speaker 3: adjustments around the rim and the rim finishing yesterday, and
Speaker 3: then he is to me, the most aware transition playmaker
Speaker 3: in the NBA today, And that's like the final element
Speaker 3: when people make the Steve Nash comparisons and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's really there. It is the just masterful pick and
Speaker 3: roll decision making combined with this unbelievable pull up shooting.
Speaker 3: They will always make you a more lethal score than
Speaker 3: the raw numbers indicate. And Howie's putting up some big
Speaker 3: raw numbers right now. But I mean, his efficiency is
Speaker 3: so mind blowing because he is always going to try
Speaker 3: to amplify that attention or I should say weaponize that
Speaker 3: attention to amplify his teammates first, and then it is
Speaker 3: that pushing the pace, that awareness of all right, well,
Speaker 3: I've got a guy who's out running the defense down
Speaker 3: the floor right now. Boom hit had passed. So many
Speaker 3: guys don't see those opportunities at the level that how
Speaker 3: he does. He gets you a couple free buckets like
Speaker 3: that every game. I mean, he is a sensational, generational
Speaker 3: sort of one man offense, and everything that he's doing
Speaker 3: right now is absolutely legit. I don't see any coverage
Speaker 3: or any player who can slow him down individually because
Speaker 3: he is such a complete offensive player and I don't
Speaker 3: see a team that can slow down this PACER's offense. Now,
Speaker 3: their defense is another issue entirely as is Hollie's, but offensively,
Speaker 3: he is a bona fide superstar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't have a ton to add.
Speaker 1: Carson did a phenomenal breakdown on our YouTube channel, The
Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton if you guys want to check it out.
Speaker 1: I want to contextualize some of those numbers that you
Speaker 1: throw out that make Halle historically great, Carson. Only six
Speaker 1: players have ever averaged twelve assists per game in a
Speaker 1: single season, Kevin Johnson, Magic Johnson, Kevin Porter, John Stockton,
Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas, and now Halle. I'd say pretty good company.
Speaker 1: You mentioned how efficient he's been. He's the third most
Speaker 1: efficient twenty five point per game season of all time,
Speaker 1: behind last year's Kevin Durant twenty eighteen Steph Curry. Can
Speaker 1: I say that's pretty good company?
Speaker 2: Carson.
Speaker 1: You mentioned it's the first ever twenty five twelve season
Speaker 1: NBA history. Only fifteen players have ever averaged twenty to
Speaker 1: ten in a single season. It's it's super remarkable and
Speaker 1: it is just as much to do with his playmaking
Speaker 1: as it is the unstoppable scoring. He's seventy two percent
Speaker 1: in the paint non restricted area. He's fifty three percent
Speaker 1: on short mid range attempts, the forty three percent on
Speaker 1: long mid range attempts. And the only aspect I think
Speaker 1: you didn't hit on is him in big moments this season.
Speaker 1: We have now seen him in two massive games on
Speaker 1: the biggest stage of this very young season on the
Speaker 1: end season tournament against Boston, not only carve them up
Speaker 1: and dissect them the entire game playmaking and scoring on
Speaker 1: the biggest stage, on the biggest part of the game.
Speaker 1: He said, I'm gonna put up a pull up three
Speaker 1: because I'm that great of a shooter, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: wet it because I'm that guy. And he does, and
Speaker 1: he knocks off the Boston Celtics, and then in another
Speaker 1: big time clutch moment, knocks down another crucial pull up
Speaker 1: jumper to knock off the Bucks, who we are considering
Speaker 1: to be the two best teams in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1: I just think that's another aspect too. He didn't blink
Speaker 1: in a big time moment. You know, we have these
Speaker 1: issues with Jason Tatum in the clutch right with what
Speaker 1: he does offensively. Alie doesn't have these issues, right he
Speaker 1: just said I'm gonna do it because I'm that guy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that shot and I'm gonna make it.
Speaker 1: It's the totality of it, and I do. I think
Speaker 1: he's got the potential. I think we're already seeing it.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's one of the best offensive players on
Speaker 1: the planet right now and to overlook that is just
Speaker 1: wrong to him. But that's the final component to me,
Speaker 1: is the clutch gene that we've seen from Halle. Some
Speaker 1: guys do fear the moment, some guys do shy away.
Speaker 1: Hallie's not one of those guys. And like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: whatever you throw at him, he's got a counter. If
Speaker 1: you want to shut this down, he's going to get
Speaker 1: a bucket.
Speaker 2: This way.
Speaker 1: It's it's very different in the way he does it
Speaker 1: to nicolea Jokic, But you know that unstoppable, that on,
Speaker 1: that inevitable feeling that you get from him. I kind
Speaker 1: of also get that from Halle a little bit.
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, he's straight up alpha dogs Jason Tatum and
Speaker 2: Damian Lillard and Jannis in the same week and high
Speaker 2: leverage situation, but just just straight up alpha dogdom and
Speaker 2: talk shit while doing it like it just just it
Speaker 2: was completely ridiculous. I think he reminds me of Jokic
Speaker 2: in the sense that it's like there is no tenable
Speaker 2: defensive strategy. If you play him to be a score
Speaker 2: he's going to beat you a well over a point
Speaker 2: and point, you know, one point two points per possession.
Speaker 2: If you claim to be a passer, he's going to
Speaker 2: beat you to the tune of one point two points
Speaker 2: per possession. Like it's a unique combination to your list, Carson,
Speaker 2: real quick before we move on. Yeah, you had mentioned
Speaker 2: four guys. We had this conversation last week or two
Speaker 2: weeks ago. I think it was last week two weeks ago.
Speaker 2: Who knows, I'm going to switch Aliburton an aunt. I
Speaker 2: understand all the things I said about Ant are true.
Speaker 2: This is not a bad Ant take. This is a
Speaker 2: pro Haliburton take. I think he has all time great
Speaker 2: offensive player written all over him, and I think that
Speaker 2: to me, that makes him a better big picture prospect
Speaker 2: than and just by going over the top of him,
Speaker 2: not by Ant dropping in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 2: Luca is interesting because I would never say that that
Speaker 2: Halliburton's better than Luca, not just because their fans are
Speaker 2: crazy and they would murder me alive. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, I do think there's something to be said
Speaker 2: in the big picture about the potential that Haliburton has
Speaker 2: to be better than Luca, And it comes down to
Speaker 2: two things. In my opinion. He's so much faster and
Speaker 2: has good length, which I think will give him the
Speaker 2: ability to be a better defender the big picture than
Speaker 2: Luca can ever be just because of his lack of
Speaker 2: foot speed. And then two, I think Tiers Haliburton plays
Speaker 2: a way more likable brand of basketball. And I think,
Speaker 2: and I think in general like because he plays with
Speaker 2: pace like Tyrese is heliocentric, but he's helio centric with
Speaker 2: a quick trigger to get rid of the ball, not
Speaker 2: just in transition situations, but in half court situations. And
Speaker 2: I think the methodical Luka Doncic thing. There are certain
Speaker 2: types of players who thrive in that specific types of
Speaker 2: play finishers, but there are other types of players who
Speaker 2: struggle in that environment, and we've seen that over the
Speaker 2: years and so well. I think Luca is a better
Speaker 2: player than tyress Aliburton right now, and obviously his physical
Speaker 2: imposition offensively as like a matchup attacker is an important
Speaker 2: element to factor in there. But I think Tyrese has
Speaker 2: the potential to be a better player than Luca in
Speaker 2: the long run. I think he legitimately has that potential.
Speaker 2: And then the Wemby piece, it's like he's an alien.
Speaker 2: So I don't even know how you know it, Like,
Speaker 2: how do you even do a basketball breakdown of that?
Speaker 2: I think it's ridiculous. Right, So, the Lakers open up
Speaker 2: as a four point five point favorite over the Pacers tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Pacers have a one to ten point five defensive rating
Speaker 2: over their last two games. I thought they played basically
Speaker 2: outside of the third quarter yesterday, an excellent defensive game. Honestly, though,
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, like Dame got red hot with his
Speaker 2: pull up three in that third quarter, and honestly, if
Speaker 2: it wasn't for Dame's red hot shooting, that probably would
Speaker 2: have been a fifteen point win for the Pacers. I
Speaker 2: thought they outplayed him for the most part during the game. No,
Speaker 2: the Celtics have been I think that when the Lakers
Speaker 2: are this version, I think they are a better defense
Speaker 2: than the Celtics. I think you guys would probably agree
Speaker 2: with me in terms of their actual top tier when
Speaker 2: they're really locked in. That said, the Celtics are an
Speaker 2: excellent defense, and they have excellent perimeter defenders and excellent
Speaker 2: help defenders, and they hung a one to twenty offensive
Speaker 2: rating on the Celtics this week. I want to get
Speaker 2: let's start with this. I want to have you, guys
Speaker 2: lead with your pick if who's gonna win. But then
Speaker 2: I want you to give your take for what you
Speaker 2: think is gonna happen when Indy is on offense in
Speaker 2: tomorrow's games. Start with your pick, though, Let's go with Logan. Ah.
Speaker 2: I've been going back and forth on this game.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: It's tough because I don't know if we're gonna get
Speaker 1: four consistent Lakers quarters. That's kind of the dilemma, right,
Speaker 1: I'm going to take the Lakers, uh, but I really
Speaker 1: do think it's how they deal with the offense and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the these teams do play very fast. The
Speaker 1: Pacers are first and pace, the Lakers are eighth. I
Speaker 1: think that's gonna be interesting, and I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: be interesting to see if the Lakers can just keep up.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is some of the guys,
Speaker 1: some of the things you guys note about Halliburn, how
Speaker 1: quick he plays in transition, taking advantage of opportunities that
Speaker 1: he sees if they're there. If there's any lapses in
Speaker 1: Lakers defensive coverage, Hallie's going to find it if it's
Speaker 1: quick and fast. So I think the Lakers rotations need
Speaker 1: to be crisp, they need to be quick, they need
Speaker 1: to be timely. And the Lakers off I mean, excuse me.
Speaker 1: The Pacers offense is really really good in the actions
Speaker 1: that they run too, like back doors, off pin downs
Speaker 1: and how they open up, how they move the center right.
Speaker 1: There's a huge burden on Anthony Davis, I think in
Speaker 1: this game to dominate, and he's as game breaking a
Speaker 1: defensive weapon as they come. Right, So I'm gonna run
Speaker 1: a ton of pick and roll. They run the eighth
Speaker 1: most in basketball. The Pacers do it, the second most
Speaker 1: efficient mark in the NBA. And Ad is gonna be
Speaker 1: tasked with switching out to the perimeter on turner holding
Speaker 1: Halliburton and check in the mid range and on the interior,
Speaker 1: and he's gonna have to be disruptive getting into passing lanes.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a huge ask of this Lakers defense,
Speaker 1: who again has been playing great over these past couple
Speaker 1: of games, to check all their boxes. It's just hard
Speaker 1: covering all of what Indiana does man the pick and
Speaker 1: pops that are open, the in between game with Halle,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a burden on the point of attack
Speaker 1: defenders to not overplay defense versus Halliburton. It's not concede
Speaker 1: open looks. It's just gonna be tough. But I think
Speaker 1: the one advantage that I will give to the Lakers
Speaker 1: is something that you guys mentioned early, and that's physical imposition.
Speaker 1: And I still think that the Lakers physically match up
Speaker 1: well with this team where Lebron's going to be able
Speaker 1: to dominate offensive matchups. Right, you talk about Halle and
Speaker 1: some of these other smaller defenders here, I would be
Speaker 1: setting screens for Lebron in ad all games, just trying
Speaker 1: to get a switch on Halle, Bruce Brown, you know,
Speaker 1: Nie Smith's a great defender too. But these guys should
Speaker 1: just physically overwhelm Indiana. And so that's where I give
Speaker 1: the Lakers the edge on the glass physically on offense.
Speaker 1: And I just think on a big stage, Tyreese has
Speaker 1: stepped up his game because it's the Ncason Tournament. But
Speaker 1: there's something about like you mentioned, Carson, this is a
Speaker 1: one game format. Lebron has really cranked it up in
Speaker 1: the nd season tournament, and I think this means something
Speaker 1: to him. I think this is a point of pride
Speaker 1: for him, and I'm not picking against Lebron in a
Speaker 1: one game scenario here, and again, I just think the
Speaker 1: Lakers have physical advantages that they can impose over Indiana.
Speaker 1: It's not going to be easy. I think this is
Speaker 1: going to be a game that comes down to the wire,
Speaker 1: as have all the ND season games. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, I like the Lakers physical advantages
Speaker 1: and I'm I'm just not going to pick against the
Speaker 1: King Man he's been He's been too great.
Speaker 3: I think review this very similarly. With the level that
Speaker 3: Lebron is playing at and with how much he clearly cares,
Speaker 3: this is not a team that is in position to
Speaker 3: make him uncomfortable. They don't have big enough, strong enough,
Speaker 3: athletic enough wings like I do really like Aaron Nesmith.
Speaker 3: But it's a very favorable matchup for Lebron, I think,
Speaker 3: and he's playing at this level regardless, I do worry
Speaker 3: about the Lakers just matching the consistently prolific Indiana offense
Speaker 3: because we've seen nobody can stop that offense. And there
Speaker 3: are some specific things about this matchup that concern me.
Speaker 3: You mentioned it, Logan. This is a team that we
Speaker 3: have seen in terms of the Lakers be as inconsistent
Speaker 3: with their effort as any good team in basketball, and
Speaker 3: this is a team you have to be dialed against
Speaker 3: because they are going to play so fast, be so
Speaker 3: opportunistic in transition. They have lethal shooters everywhere, so you
Speaker 3: have to be sharp with every rotation you do. Mention
Speaker 3: eighty is the best defensive player alive, but this is
Speaker 3: a very complete offense, and any one rim protector is
Speaker 3: not going to be at their most valuable in this matchup.
Speaker 3: I just think because of the lethal pick and pop
Speaker 3: big that is Miles Turner in because of the shooting
Speaker 3: all around. Now eight is unique because of how well
Speaker 3: he plays in space and all that. I just don't
Speaker 3: know that you can really slow down this Pacers offense.
Speaker 3: But I still think the physical advantages Lebron playing at
Speaker 3: this level. If the Lakers have an off shooting night,
Speaker 3: which they have had plenty of this season, it's sort
Speaker 3: of tough to see a path to where they win
Speaker 3: this game. And they just had a great shooting night
Speaker 3: against the Pelicans. But if they have a solid shooting
Speaker 3: night with Lebron at this level, I do think they
Speaker 3: can win a lot of matchups against Indiana offensively to
Speaker 3: offset how good that Pacers offense is. And I would
Speaker 3: lean towards Lebron and the Lakers with how he and
Speaker 3: they are playing right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Indy can win this game. And when
Speaker 2: I say can, I mean very much can. Like would
Speaker 2: not even be surprised, But I think picking against Lebron
Speaker 2: in this game is a terrible idea, Like he just
Speaker 2: wants it, like probably more than everyone else out there,
Speaker 2: and specifically they don't have anybodies that can match up
Speaker 2: to him, which we'll get to the Lakers on offense
Speaker 2: in a minute. I wanted to This is kind of
Speaker 2: the way I see the game going. First of all,
Speaker 2: Indian Indian offense is going to look to push a
Speaker 2: lot in transition. The Lakers are a much better transition
Speaker 2: defense this year than they were last year. They've basically
Speaker 2: abandoned the offensive glass to get everybody back on defense
Speaker 2: this year, which has been kind of their counter to that,
Speaker 2: and they've been last I checked, like they were in
Speaker 2: the like in the eleven twelve area for transition defense
Speaker 2: according to Cleaning the Glass, which again that's going to
Speaker 2: be something that just in general in terms of focus,
Speaker 2: they're gonna have to be really sharp on. I expect
Speaker 2: Darvin Ham to start with Cam Reddish on Tyrese Haliburton
Speaker 2: and basically apply a ton of ball pressure, and then
Speaker 2: I expect him to play an aggressive all screen coverage
Speaker 2: with Anthony Davis on Miles Turner to start up at
Speaker 2: the level of the screen, and then he's gonna put
Speaker 2: Lebron on Obi top and basically use him as a
Speaker 2: roamer and try to blow up plays there. I think
Speaker 2: they're going to concede whenever he goes to it, although
Speaker 2: if they are aggressive enough, they might be able to
Speaker 2: force him to roll. But I think they're going to
Speaker 2: concede the pick and pop to Miles Turner to start
Speaker 2: the game, and if he doesn't make it, that could
Speaker 2: be a huge swing factor in this game if he
Speaker 2: misses too and starts to get a little hesitant. But
Speaker 2: that's kind of the way I see them starting. The
Speaker 2: interesting thing that i'd like to see them do at
Speaker 2: some point during the game is put Anthony Davis on
Speaker 2: Obi Toppin and then basically put Lebron James on Miles
Speaker 2: Turner and switch the Haliburton pick and roll and then
Speaker 2: essentially tell Lebron or Rui or whoever it is that
Speaker 2: ends up in that switch to just basically press up
Speaker 2: on Tyres and make him drive into help and then
Speaker 2: they have Anthony Davis waiting and then essentially try to
Speaker 2: rotate out of it with all your athletes, because that's
Speaker 2: one of the things the Lakers have been doing in
Speaker 2: this last fifteen game stretch that's given them a huge edges.
Speaker 2: They're basically slotting instead of playing Austin and dil together,
Speaker 2: They've basically moved another point of attack defender into the lineup.
Speaker 2: And it's been consistently like reddish entaurium prints and then
Speaker 2: it's Max Christy and Jared Vanderbilt. You know, it's like
Speaker 2: a steady diet of athletes on the floor. And so
Speaker 2: when you have like a situation where let's say let's
Speaker 2: say it's the Let's say it's Jared Vanderbilt on ball
Speaker 2: and it's Lebron on Miles turner and they switch it
Speaker 2: on the backside, you're gonna have Anthony Davis and a
Speaker 2: Cam Reddish or a Max Christi in rotation. Austin Reeves
Speaker 2: has been a really good help defender as of late.
Speaker 2: He's blowing up plays, jumping from the weak side. He's
Speaker 2: done a really good job. So like that's kind of
Speaker 2: the direction I see the game going. And again, I
Speaker 2: think if the Lakers are sharp, if they apply good
Speaker 2: ball pressure, if they if they you know, rotate hard,
Speaker 2: get back in transition, I think they can keep them
Speaker 2: around that like one fifteen offensive rating area. That's kind
Speaker 2: of like the way they're gonna have to play to win.
Speaker 2: And then moving over to the Lakers on offense, like
Speaker 2: it's going to be a couple of different things. The
Speaker 2: Pacers give up an offensive rebound on thirty four point
Speaker 2: two percent of opponents misses, which is really bad. And
Speaker 2: now the Lakers have abandoned the offensive glass for the
Speaker 2: most part this season. But we saw in the Phoenix
Speaker 2: game in particular, when they know they have an advantage there,
Speaker 2: they look to be aggressive. And so I see it
Speaker 2: being one of those things where like maybe the Pacers
Speaker 2: have a lot of success offensively, but the Lakers get
Speaker 2: like fifteen to twenty more shot attempts than they do,
Speaker 2: and that goes a long way. I think also in
Speaker 2: a weird way, like and I know, I'll just pitch
Speaker 2: it to you guys like this, do you think Lebron
Speaker 2: can have a little bit more of a mental effect
Speaker 2: on Indie than Jannis Dame or Jason Tatum? Did?
Speaker 3: I heard that? Crazy? To be a generally young team
Speaker 3: with turn Heel have been in spy stake situations, playing
Speaker 3: Lebron in a game matters to when really been in
Speaker 3: those games. That is scary. And I don't know if
Speaker 3: it's a huge factor, but I do think it is
Speaker 3: a factor. Yes, I consider that as well. I think
Speaker 3: it's a big time fact. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 3: Lebron would scare me out there on the floor. It's
Speaker 3: the same for these guys like they watched him growing up.
Speaker 3: You know, this is a really young Pacers team, Like
Speaker 3: there has to be a I don't know that. I
Speaker 3: think the r around Lebron has to come into play
Speaker 3: in this game.
Speaker 2: I think it's it's something that could play a factor
Speaker 2: and it's something to keep an eye on early. And
Speaker 2: I think if the Pacers play very confidently throughout this game,
Speaker 2: it's yet another indicator of just how amazing Tyres Haliburton is,
Speaker 2: which would be worth keeping an eye on. But again,
Speaker 2: I think I think that's the pathway for the Lakers,
Speaker 2: bully ball, lots of matchup attacking on the front line,
Speaker 2: win the possession battle. And then again, I know some
Speaker 2: people disagree with me on this, but I think when
Speaker 2: the Lakers give their best defensive effort, they are the
Speaker 2: best defense in the league. And so, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: like this will be a great challenge. It's I'm so
Speaker 2: excited for this game tomorrow because not only is it
Speaker 2: Lebron versus Tyres Halliburton, but it's two incredibly different styles.
Speaker 2: A team that thrives on offense and couldn't care less
Speaker 2: about defense versus a team that thrives on defense and
Speaker 2: is a bad offense. But both teams are doing better
Speaker 2: on the other end as of late, Like the Pacers
Speaker 2: have been defending better, the Lakers have been scoring better.
Speaker 2: So like there's all these like interesting trends, and I
Speaker 2: think I think Lebron like again, like there's not a
Speaker 2: soul on that roster that can even hope to make
Speaker 2: Lebron moderately uncomfortable, like a lot of that ball pressure
Speaker 2: stuff that that Aaron Nee Smith did, Lebron's just gonna
Speaker 2: use against him and just and pick him apart. And obviously,
Speaker 2: like the big weakness of the Pacers defense is actually
Speaker 2: their help and recover, Like they're off ball eyes get
Speaker 2: lost all the time, which is going to be a
Speaker 2: big problem with Lebron on the floor. They haven't faced
Speaker 2: a single team this week that's got that level of
Speaker 2: passer on the floor, and I think that's something to
Speaker 2: keep an eye on. Again, think the Pacers can win,
Speaker 2: think they flat out have a good chance, But I'm
Speaker 2: picking the Lakers now because of time. We're gonna move on.
Speaker 2: I want to hit two quick topics before we get
Speaker 2: out of here. Zion Williamson Lebron erased him from that
Speaker 2: game basically just daring him to shoot, beating him to
Speaker 2: spots right outside the restricted area and fallen over. And
Speaker 2: that doesn't seem like. What bothered me in particular is
Speaker 2: Zion actually has like a pretty solid floater where like
Speaker 2: he'll like he was using it, he's used it throughout
Speaker 2: this season, where like he'll make a hard iso move
Speaker 2: and then he'll just kind of elevate from like six
Speaker 2: feet and just shoot that little pop shot over the
Speaker 2: top and he can make it. And I think again,
Speaker 2: I think Lebron alpha dogged him in a lot of
Speaker 2: ways that affected his confidence. But so I do think
Speaker 2: last night isn't exactly the best characterization of who's I
Speaker 2: and is as a player. That said, like, rim efficiencies
Speaker 2: down this year, rim frequencies down from when he was good.
Speaker 2: He just hasn't quite been even as good as he
Speaker 2: was a year ago. And so from that standpoint, like,
Speaker 2: are we off the Zion bandwagon? From the standpoint of
Speaker 2: him ever reaching truly great potential? Like is he now
Speaker 2: essentially damaged goods in the sense that, like, as he
Speaker 2: gets older, the weight and the injuries are just going
Speaker 2: to make him less and less mobile, which is going
Speaker 2: to make him less and less impactful. Are we more
Speaker 2: or less seeing the ceiling of Zion route right now?
Speaker 2: What do you guys think.
Speaker 3: I have been an advocate when you're looking at last
Speaker 3: year the level he was at in twenty twenty one
Speaker 3: that some people have just flat out undersold how monumentally
Speaker 3: great an offensive player Zion has been. When he is
Speaker 3: on the floor, he has been the most imposing rim
Speaker 3: finisher from initiating from the perimeter right excluding Shack because
Speaker 3: he he's a big he dominates from the interior that
Speaker 3: we have seen. He is six six, two hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty five pounds with one of the quickest first steps
Speaker 3: in the league some of the elite bounced in the league.
Speaker 3: And then this overwhelming force. He has just been such
Speaker 3: a marvel to watch. He has just walked in to
Speaker 3: twenty five twenty seven a night on sixty five percent
Speaker 3: through shooting. He's been so lethal a lot of different
Speaker 3: offensive actions. Isolating dudes can't check him one on one
Speaker 3: in the post. He has such overwhelming physical advantages. Even
Speaker 3: ball handling out a pick and roll as a roller
Speaker 3: like Zion has been awesome. When he's been on the
Speaker 3: floor up to this season, I think it's been really
Speaker 3: disappointing what we've seen from him. I think this is
Speaker 3: the worst condition that we have seen him in, and
Speaker 3: I think that this is also probably the least confident
Speaker 3: comfortable to absolutely think that was a factor. Yesterday's game,
Speaker 3: he seemed rattled to me. I mean, he couldn't hit
Speaker 3: his free throws, either, and he's been less aggressive this year.
Speaker 3: We actually just had this conversation with a guest on
Speaker 3: our show. Shout out to Yokis Joe Star. But Zion
Speaker 3: has normally been, I mean a crazy efficient isolation player.
Speaker 3: This year, he's been below average efficiency there and he
Speaker 3: just hasn't asserted himself offensively as much. His attempts are down,
Speaker 3: his scoring is down, his efficiency is down, his rebounding
Speaker 3: is down. I think he continues to be really underwhelming there.
Speaker 3: It's not something that he really commits to, but an
Speaker 3: athlete of his caliber should have more of an impact there.
Speaker 3: And then defensively, I think there was optimism with him
Speaker 3: as a prospect that, right he could have enough lateral
Speaker 3: quickness and I mean he had some monster defensive stretches
Speaker 3: at Duke. He's never been able to turn into, in
Speaker 3: my opinion, even a neutral and I've been disappointed in
Speaker 3: what we've seen from him so far this year.
Speaker 1: I've been pretty disappointed by Zion two. And it's frustrating, man,
Speaker 1: because I think it's that level of disengagement that you
Speaker 1: talk about Carson that's so frustrating with Zion Williamson and
Speaker 1: kind of speaks to him as a basketball player in
Speaker 1: his character. Right, it's like the little things like that,
Speaker 1: the defense, the rebounding. It's like Zion, does he want
Speaker 1: to be out there or does he want to play basketball?
Speaker 1: It's like it's like the smart kid in school, right,
Speaker 1: like the naturally gifted, really smart kid versus the dumb
Speaker 1: kid who needs to study and go get a tutor,
Speaker 1: right like Man Carson, Right, you know Carson didn't need
Speaker 1: to crack the book, but I had to read a lot.
Speaker 2: You know, I had to study. Man.
Speaker 3: Love this analogy.
Speaker 2: Love.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like if the really it's like if
Speaker 1: the really smart kid was disengaged. Right, It's so easy
Speaker 1: for Zion. He's always had it. He didn't need to
Speaker 1: crack the book. Right, He's got these such dominant physical advantages.
Speaker 1: He's a freaking bowl in ball man. When he goes
Speaker 1: to the paint, guy's bounced off of him.
Speaker 3: He doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's a shoulder, he's like a he's like a trampoline,
Speaker 1: like as just literally jump off of him.
Speaker 2: It's insane.
Speaker 1: But I wonder with Zion because of these overwhelming physical advantages,
Speaker 1: because of how easy the game comes to him. It's like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, if one Zion tries that much, I
Speaker 1: don't know how much off court, if he really wants
Speaker 1: to improve his craft. It's you know, it comes so
Speaker 1: easy to him because of these physical things that I
Speaker 1: don't know how much off court if he really does
Speaker 1: put in the work. And that's that's the question to me.
Speaker 1: Because he has all the tools, he has all the skills,
Speaker 1: We've seen the flashes of it. I do want to
Speaker 1: cut Zion some slack in one area. And that's the
Speaker 1: fact that I don't think New Orleans is an optimized
Speaker 1: situation for him. I think that it's really tough because
Speaker 1: you know, it's not optimized spacing wise. He plays, you know,
Speaker 1: alongside a not great shooting big you know, Valentunas can
Speaker 1: space the floor, but he's not, you know, always out
Speaker 1: spacing it.
Speaker 2: So that's where I come down on it.
Speaker 1: I think it's partly on Zion because I don't know
Speaker 1: how much he cares about the game. I don't know
Speaker 1: how much he's trying to get better, how much he's
Speaker 1: trying to lose weight. But I also don't think this
Speaker 1: is a great situation for him. I do think more
Speaker 1: of it falls on Zion and no I probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: have him in that operational a lont of guys to
Speaker 1: build around because of all the concerns we've laid about.
Speaker 1: But the biggest issue to me is that I don't
Speaker 1: know if Zion loves the game.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Zion really wants to does he
Speaker 1: want to win, does he care? Does he want to
Speaker 1: get better? That's my biggest question mark with Zion and
Speaker 1: where I've felt most unfulfilled with him this season.
Speaker 2: I can tell you that the Lakers don't think his
Speaker 2: Valentoin Hiss can shoot. Yeah, I'm not giving up hope entirely,
Speaker 2: but I'm running out of hope. And it really is
Speaker 2: this simple for me. I'm worried that he might figure
Speaker 2: it out so to speak, when he's twenty five or
Speaker 2: twenty six, and then his body will have too much
Speaker 2: damage done to it and initiate and that that, specifically
Speaker 2: to me, is what scares me. And specifically what sucks
Speaker 2: about that is like I was an idiot when I
Speaker 2: was young. Now I took better care of my body,
Speaker 2: but like I did. Like the point is is like
Speaker 2: it's not exactly unheard of for a dude to become
Speaker 2: more disciplined and to have his shit together better and
Speaker 2: when he's older, and I just hope he can figure
Speaker 2: that out before his body fails him. That's kind of
Speaker 2: where I'm at with it now. One last thing I
Speaker 2: want to hit before we get out of here. Last
Speaker 2: night we had a Bob Myers went on with the
Speaker 2: Inside the NBA guys and he had a funny interaction
Speaker 2: with Charles Barkley where he's like, you know, congrats on
Speaker 2: getting off of that sinking ship. And he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I got some friends over there, and it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: they'll be with you soon. Are the Warriors is sinking ship?
Speaker 2: Let's start with U Carson.
Speaker 3: I think they have been slowly sinking since the title
Speaker 3: because I think that, to some extent, that was magic
Speaker 3: in a bottle. That was a field that wasn't quite
Speaker 3: as strong as the ones that we've seen develop in
Speaker 3: the subsequent two years, and you had Jordan Poole playing
Speaker 3: at an unbelievable level. I was just reflecting on that
Speaker 3: with my friend yesterday, how insane it was that he
Speaker 3: was able to carry the offense for multiple games in
Speaker 3: that Denver series with Steph off the bench, with unbelievable
Speaker 3: efficiency and shot making and great playmaking, and he demonstrated
Speaker 3: maturity from a guard that young. That is so unreasonable
Speaker 3: to expect in a championship run, but he did it,
Speaker 3: and then he became the polar opposite of that within
Speaker 3: eighteen months. So that was incredible. Wiggins playing at this
Speaker 3: level that he hasn't been able to reach before or since.
Speaker 3: That was a special run, and I think that it
Speaker 3: was natural to expect that that was a team that,
Speaker 3: given how they were aging, how they did capture lightning
Speaker 3: in a bottle with a couple of those key players,
Speaker 3: was probably going to trend downwards. However, I am not
Speaker 3: all in on the chuck like the Warriors are dead
Speaker 3: sort of thing. I know that he's been a big
Speaker 3: advocate for that, and I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: have been. I remain cautiously optimistic about this team because
Speaker 3: I think that there's a couple areas in which they
Speaker 3: are clearly a lot better than last year, when that
Speaker 3: was a team that made the second round of the
Speaker 3: playoffs and played a competitive series against the Lakers, which
Speaker 3: is a really good basketball team. I think this is
Speaker 3: the best bench unit of Steph's career, and I think
Speaker 3: that CP three has been a good fit to that
Speaker 3: unit when he's been out there as a commanding presence.
Speaker 3: But I just grow more and more bullish about that
Speaker 3: group even without him. I think that the energy that
Speaker 3: you get from Pods, from Moody, from kaminga so important
Speaker 3: chars is playing at a really high level GP two Like,
Speaker 3: there's just so many quality role players there, and historically
Speaker 3: since Katie left, the Warriors have struggled so much to
Speaker 3: win the non Steph minutes. They were positive by a
Speaker 3: decent amount when Steph was on the floor last year.
Speaker 3: I think it was like plus forty six in the
Speaker 3: playoffs with him, minus forty eight without him. So you
Speaker 3: can point at that and say, when Steph was off
Speaker 3: the floor, they couldn't put together a capable second unit,
Speaker 3: and maybe that was the single thing that sunk them
Speaker 3: this year. I do see other concerns. I think that
Speaker 3: their core starting unit and CP, especially when they try
Speaker 3: to close with CP, I just don't think that's tenable.
Speaker 3: He's not a good offensive fit alongside Steph, and they
Speaker 3: just can be too small, too slow, not athletic enough
Speaker 3: to seriously contend, especially in this monstrously huge Western Conference.
Speaker 3: So they do need to me Moody to play big minutes.
Speaker 3: I love Moses Moody. I love what he is doing
Speaker 3: out there. That is a big time shooter who plays
Speaker 3: with great effort. He just makes winning basketball plays. Cominga
Speaker 3: came up in a big way in that Portland game.
Speaker 3: I don't think he's as consistently a positive guy, but
Speaker 3: I think that athleticism alone can swing games. Pods is
Speaker 3: so mature offensively for his agent. He plays so hard
Speaker 3: like those guys are legitimately valuable, and I do think
Speaker 3: they may need to be more willing to mix and
Speaker 3: match combinations when you're looking at closing. There are games
Speaker 3: where Clay is just a negative. And I'm not one
Speaker 3: of those people who thinks Clay is washed because he
Speaker 3: had a terrible month. Because he had a terrible month
Speaker 3: to start last year and then he had some of
Speaker 3: the best months of his career. He is a tough
Speaker 3: shot taker, tough shot maker, and there is going to
Speaker 3: be variants with that. I don't really like him as
Speaker 3: an offensive number two because he's so limited athletically and
Speaker 3: as a playmaker. But I don't think that Clay has
Speaker 3: fallen off a cliff just because he had a really
Speaker 3: bad shooting month, and maybe he took a few more
Speaker 3: bad shots than he even normally would. But he's just
Speaker 3: generally a guy who takes and makes a lot of
Speaker 3: contest to jumpers, so there do need to be spots
Speaker 3: where he's not playing well. Wiggins has had so many
Speaker 3: rough games, and those guys just shouldn't play closing minutes.
Speaker 3: But I do think those guys are going to find
Speaker 3: more of their normal level. You mentioned when you came
Speaker 3: on our show how brutal the schedule has been. The
Speaker 3: Warriors still haven't lost to a bad basketball team. The
Speaker 3: Clippers are very legitimately arguably the worst team who they've
Speaker 3: lost to. That's a talented team, that's a team that's
Speaker 3: playing better basketball of late. If Wiggins and Clay can't
Speaker 3: find their normal level, then I think you start looking
Speaker 3: at making a move, and I think they probably should anyways,
Speaker 3: if they want to have like a real puncher's chance
Speaker 3: even to win the West. If it's a big athletic wing,
Speaker 3: a guy with two way impact like Ogianoobi, who we
Speaker 3: know they wanted to target last year, the asking price
Speaker 3: was just so crazy high. If it is a dynamic
Speaker 3: second shot creator like Zach Levine, who Yes, I have
Speaker 3: concerns about de defensively and how does he fit into
Speaker 3: a new culture, how malleable will he be? But it's
Speaker 3: just a talent injection that I think is valuable to them.
Speaker 3: And maybe you don't have to move Clay because I
Speaker 3: think that that's going to be a tough sell maybe
Speaker 3: for Steph and Draymond that I don't know if they
Speaker 3: ever reasonably could break up that core. And even though
Speaker 3: I like CPS fit, I think that at that contract value,
Speaker 3: you can probably get a guy who is more impactful
Speaker 3: than like a good sixth man who reasonably you can't
Speaker 3: close with. And the bench is playing well without it anyways.
Speaker 3: So I think this is a team that's going to
Speaker 3: get better. I think this is a team that has
Speaker 3: had catastrophic performance from a couple of their key players.
Speaker 3: And I think this is a team that's had a
Speaker 3: tough schedule and Draymond obviously missing time with injury and
Speaker 3: then the suspension. Everything has sort of been working against them,
Speaker 3: like unbelievable blown games late against the Kings and against
Speaker 3: the Clippers, and I think things are only going to
Speaker 3: go up from here because of that. I don't think
Speaker 3: they're broken. I absolutely think this is a team that
Speaker 3: can win a playoff series. I just think they need retooling.
Speaker 3: But I'm encouraged so much by the young guys in
Speaker 3: the second unit as a whole, because that's a strength
Speaker 3: that this team just has not had in recent years.
Speaker 3: And Steph is still Steph. So as long as Steph
Speaker 3: is Steph with a better second unit and you know,
Speaker 3: most of the key piece is still around, you cannot
Speaker 3: write off the Warriors like some people are doing right now.
Speaker 1: I agree with a lot of what you said. In
Speaker 1: the other area I'll hild on too, is I think
Speaker 1: the Warriors have to be better defensively. You know, in
Speaker 1: the regular season of their final run, they were the
Speaker 1: best defense in the NBA. In the playoffs, they were
Speaker 1: still a really good defense. I know Draymond's missed some time.
Speaker 1: We need to see along with Steph being great, along
Speaker 1: with the bench unit being better, I think that the
Speaker 1: defense has to get to an above average level. And
Speaker 1: then I do think they need to make a move.
Speaker 1: What happens with the sinking ship? How do you get better?
Speaker 1: Will you throw off some weight, you know, you get
Speaker 1: rid of some of the gold, and if it is CP.
Speaker 1: If it is somebody else, you got to cut some
Speaker 1: weight and so the ship can get back up, you know,
Speaker 1: point blank. And so I think a move is required
Speaker 1: at the deadline. And Carson, you talk about giving them
Speaker 1: a puncher's chance. I'll remind you guys, Buster Douglas once
Speaker 1: knocked out Mike Tyson.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's sometimes it's all you need, you know, you
Speaker 1: just need an opportunity. I do think to get that opportunity,
Speaker 1: to get that punch's chance, they do need to make
Speaker 1: a move at the deadline. And I think probably shopping
Speaker 1: CP is the right move. They need an upgrade in
Speaker 1: offensive talent they need, they need that injection of offense.
Speaker 1: But I'd give them the Buster Douglas puncher's chance if
Speaker 1: they make that move at the deadline, and if it
Speaker 1: is the right move.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with both of you. I think writing
Speaker 2: them off is incredibly foolish, considering they've had just about
Speaker 2: the worst possible set of circumstances you could have to
Speaker 2: start a season with the with the the schedule, the
Speaker 2: like you lose on a crazy step back three from
Speaker 2: Paul George, you lose on a wild crossbody bank shot
Speaker 2: from the leak Monk on perfect defense from Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 2: You obviously, Draymond Green barely plays Andrew Wiggins has played
Speaker 2: like crap until just recently. It's been an incredibly unfortunate
Speaker 2: sequence of events for you, and you're still within striking distance.
Speaker 2: And it really comes down to this. For me, they
Speaker 2: have Jonathan Kaminga and this specific challenge for this front
Speaker 2: office is going to be difficult for them to come
Speaker 2: to terms with. But to me, Moses Moody popping the
Speaker 2: way that he has in a consistent way that fits
Speaker 2: within their system makes it such an easy decision. You
Speaker 2: package Jonathan Minga with Chris Paul and you and you
Speaker 2: go after or like to me, I'd be going after
Speaker 2: Pascal Siakam, I'd be going after like like, there's a
Speaker 2: bunch of guys who Pascal Siakam, Jeremy grat Lori market
Speaker 2: and there's a bunch of different potential guys you could
Speaker 2: look at in the spot. Now, let me just put
Speaker 2: it this way. With Pascal Siakam, if they were to
Speaker 2: make that deal, which by the way, if I was
Speaker 2: the Raptors, I would do that in a heart beat.
Speaker 2: If I could get Jonathan kaminga to pair with Scottie
Speaker 2: Barnes is more similar on the on the timeline, I
Speaker 2: don't know if they're going to get a better deal
Speaker 2: than that for Siakam on an expiring especially when you're
Speaker 2: gonna have to resign him. Genuinely, I don't know that
Speaker 2: they could do better. I think the Warriors have a
Speaker 2: chance to actually enter into these bidding wars and have
Speaker 2: a chance to win one of them. But let's just
Speaker 2: say Siakam for the sake of this debate. Now, I've
Speaker 2: got a Wiganam Draymond frontline which is just absurd defensively,
Speaker 2: like outrageous defensively with switch ability. Draymond's shooting the sh
Speaker 2: get out of the ball. This year, there's that Steph
Speaker 2: is still a definitive top you know he's in that.
Speaker 2: I would say that this season some of the external
Speaker 2: circumstances have led him to look a little rickety as
Speaker 2: an athlete. But I think he's had a lot on
Speaker 2: his plate, and I think that when they get, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of in a groove, I think he'll continue to
Speaker 2: look more or less like the Steph that we know.
Speaker 2: But I think he's definitively in that top six or
Speaker 2: seven players in the league still, right, And that's being conservative.
Speaker 2: So like, if that's the case, and you can run
Speaker 2: out of lineup with Steph and Clay, with Andrew and
Speaker 2: let's say Siakam and Draymond, and you have Pozemski, you
Speaker 2: have Gary Payton, you have Moses Moody, you have Trace Jackson, Davis,
Speaker 2: Dario Sartz. They've got they've got depth there. And with
Speaker 2: that being the case, like I think it would just
Speaker 2: be foolish to write them off. And so again, like
Speaker 2: like it's one thing when you're looking at a team
Speaker 2: like Phoenix and it's like, man, they really need to
Speaker 2: get a wing defender in there at some point, and
Speaker 2: it's like they really just don't have the means with
Speaker 2: which to do it. Like I was talking with Brendan
Speaker 2: Klean yesterday, and it's like, maybe you trade you to
Speaker 2: want Nabby for some other athlete who's on a veteran
Speaker 2: minimum somewhere when a team needs shooting, and you're just like, hey,
Speaker 2: we'll take the athlete, you take the shooter, you know,
Speaker 2: like that kind of thing, But like they just don't
Speaker 2: really have the means. The Warriors have the means they've
Speaker 2: got a tradable salary that can fit a big slot
Speaker 2: that they don't really need in Chris Paul. And they've
Speaker 2: got a young player and Jonathan Kaminga who is definitely
Speaker 2: sought after league wide, but that is a terrible fit
Speaker 2: in their system because he doesn't really fit in the
Speaker 2: motion five out offense. And so honestly, I think, like
Speaker 2: I think like writing them off as foolish. With the
Speaker 2: play in tournament, they could literally drop ten straight games
Speaker 2: and still have a chance to make the playoffs. Like
Speaker 2: it just it doesn't make any sense for me to
Speaker 2: write them off. And I think, honestly, like what happens
Speaker 2: a lot of times in media is for the sake
Speaker 2: of the talking point, people try to jump ahead of
Speaker 2: a ship. And I kind of feel this way with
Speaker 2: like the best player in the league thing, Like it's
Speaker 2: always like everyone's like, oh, this guy's the best player
Speaker 2: in the league, and it's like can we wait for
Speaker 2: him to get the trophy first? You know, But it's
Speaker 2: because it's a talking point. I think it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: the Warriors are falling apart, and it's like they've had
Speaker 2: a rough stretch and there's a whole lot of basketball
Speaker 2: left to play. Do you guys have anything else you
Speaker 2: want to add before we get out of here for
Speaker 2: the day.
Speaker 3: Well, I will just quickly say, I really do like
Speaker 3: the Siakam proposition. I think that that significantly diminishes Kevon
Speaker 3: Looney's role, but I don't know that that's the worst thing.
Speaker 3: And yeah, then you're athletic in the front court, you're
Speaker 3: adding some offensive skill. I think that's a big win.
Speaker 3: I know some Warriors fans really want marketing. I don't
Speaker 3: know what package you put together that makes the Utah
Speaker 3: Jazz move off of their shining star that is Lori
Speaker 3: marketing right now. That would be really tough. But I
Speaker 3: think the front court makes the most sense. And if
Speaker 3: you can add real offensive skill there too, that's a
Speaker 3: big win because they just need to be bigger and
Speaker 3: more athletic. Ultimately for this Western Conference.
Speaker 2: Logan, I'd say, get Auto Porter Junior back in the deal. Yeah, yes, Okay,
Speaker 2: I have one last quick one before we get out
Speaker 2: of here. If you had to pick a team that's
Speaker 2: gonna get Lori markin in at this point, who would
Speaker 2: you say? I have two teams that that I that
Speaker 2: screamed to me right away the Pacers in the Thunder.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, him in Indiana, that would be offensive
Speaker 3: heaven hm.
Speaker 2: And both teams need a fore man like Carson and
Speaker 2: Carson and I are both firmly on team Tyrese Aliburton
Speaker 2: is making obi top and look good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Lorie Man, I think that he might be
Speaker 3: like the most undervalued star talent by the just like
Speaker 3: you know, average NBA fan, why would they watch the
Speaker 3: Jazz Like? He is an incredible offensive player and he
Speaker 3: does have size and he's good enough defensively. Yeah, that
Speaker 3: would be super fun. I just if I were the Jazz,
Speaker 3: it would. I understand that he's like not perfectly aligned
Speaker 3: with their timeline because he's twenty six and they're really
Speaker 3: early in a rebuild, but he's so so good and
Speaker 3: he's on a good value contract. It would take a
Speaker 3: lot to get me to move him, but Indiana would
Speaker 3: be so fun.
Speaker 1: Well, go ahead, looking, I'm sorry, I was thinking the
Speaker 1: same about the Thunder. I mean that makes both of
Speaker 1: those teams almost legit contenders, right, Yeah, scratch.
Speaker 2: The whole team. Both teams they're both both are contenders
Speaker 2: with Shae and all like that. The Thunder are more talented,
Speaker 2: and then Indy has like a guy who I think
Speaker 2: is a top tier superstar, like I would say that
Speaker 2: Halliburton is. He's he's every bit as good as Shae.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I was gonna ask, I was gonna ask.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's certainly a better offensive player, I think
Speaker 3: Eileen Shay because of the difference in two way impact.
Speaker 3: We'll see how how he looks in real playoff environment,
Speaker 3: but he's a better offensive player.
Speaker 2: M hmm. But I think I think in general, like
Speaker 2: just I think I think marking In is a better
Speaker 2: fit timeline wise, in basketball wise, with both of those
Speaker 2: teams than some of these veteran teams that are that
Speaker 2: they're looking at with the Jazz and this last thing
Speaker 2: I'll say, and we'll get out of here. But like
Speaker 2: the one thing with the Jazz that that always bothers
Speaker 2: me is like Laurie's really good, but you know what
Speaker 2: he's not. He's not a franchise cornerstone. Yeah and so
Speaker 2: and so I just don't understand, like it's it's it's like, uh,
Speaker 2: there's to me. If you don't have that guy, the
Speaker 2: guy that's your franchise cornerstone, then every move you should
Speaker 2: be making should be geared towards getting that guy, and
Speaker 2: then once you have that guy, then you start to
Speaker 2: kind of analyze what your strengths and weaknesses are around
Speaker 2: that and kind of could cater to it. And so
Speaker 2: like for me, if I'm the Jazz, I'm like I'd
Speaker 2: be I like, if if Sam Presty calls, I'd be like,
Speaker 2: all right, six first round picks, you know, like we'll
Speaker 2: take We'll take Josh Giddy, We'll take you know. O
Speaker 2: case I'm Wallace, well, you know, like you pieced together
Speaker 2: something crazy and and and then you're like, you know,
Speaker 2: if you're Sam Pressy, You're sitting there and you're like,
Speaker 2: if I say yes to this, I get to I
Speaker 2: get to run out of lineup with Shaye dort zealand
Speaker 2: williams Lori Marketing and Chet Holgrin and like, holy shit, man,
Speaker 2: like you know, like it could be really good. So
Speaker 2: I think I'll be curious to see what happens. But hey,
Speaker 2: thank you, thanks so much for giving me an hour
Speaker 2: of your time, giving our audience an hour of your time. Everybody,
Speaker 2: please go over to the nerd Sesh YouTube channel right
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Speaker 2: fun talking basketball with them. Thank you, guys so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you to all the listeners. I will see all
Speaker 2: of you guys tomorrow for the nd season Tournament Championship.
Speaker 1: The volume