1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Deal. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Jason Kelly alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. 4 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: All right, Alex, I'm in London for the moment. 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 3: You're in Miami for the moment, but we're off in 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 3: all different directions. 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: Tell me about what you're up to over the coming 8 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 2: week or so. Well. 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm off to Vegas for Summer League. We're also on 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: July eleventh, we're going to have our press conference, Mark 11 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: Lori and myself in front of the national media. Some 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: o our players, coaches, GMS will be there. 13 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 3: When you say our players and coaches, you're talking about 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 3: the NBA and WNBA teams you just purchased. 15 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: Right correct, the Minnesota Timbowles and the Minnesota Lynx. And 16 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: then I'm off to Atlanta to cover for Fox with 17 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 1: my compadres Kevin Burkhard, Derek Jeter, Big Poppy, and I'm 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: thrilled I'm going to your hometown and I'm very disappointed 19 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: that you won't even be there. 20 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 3: I feel very I'm going to be in Seattle. I'll 21 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 3: tell you what I'm doing in Europe in a second. 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: But when you're in Atlanta. I'm actually going to be 23 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 3: in Seattle for the Bloomberg Green event. I'm going to 24 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: be interviewing a couple very interesting people. Actually a former 25 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: resident of Atlanta, Jane Fonda is one of the people 26 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 3: I'm interviewing, but also Samantha Holloway, who you know as 27 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: the owner of the Seattle Kraken the hockey team. I 28 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,559 Speaker 3: also know her in addition to that as the daughter 29 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: of the late David Bonderman, who obviously was a legend 30 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: of the private equity business. Featured in my book, which 31 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: I know you've read, so I'm looking forward to that. 32 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: In the meantime, I'm here in Europe and I'm working 33 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,759 Speaker 3: on a limited series it's going to come out later 34 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 3: this year about the business of Formula One. So I'm 35 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 3: actually spending the next couple days with Pierre Gasley, who's 36 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: one of the preeminent drivers, incredible businessman. We're going to 37 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 3: have to have him on this show at some point, 38 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: so I'm actually going to Paris tomorrow to spend some 39 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: time with him. I will tell you The big sports story, 40 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: of course here in London is Wimbledon. It has been 41 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 3: an unblo believably great tournament. You know, Ben Shelton obviously 42 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 3: has been very successful, Taylor Fritz, you know, a couple 43 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: of Americans on the men's side have done very well. 44 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 2: So watching that closely, all right. 45 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 3: So I have to ask you, first of all, what 46 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: do you think of going to Vegas for this press conference? Like, 47 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 3: I know, we talked last episode about how you're feeling, 48 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: but you know, it gets really real at this point, 49 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 3: doesn't it. 50 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like anything else. It's like graduating 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: from high school. It doesn't until you get the diploma. 52 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: It really feels like it's not real. But I think 53 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: that'll be the end of a great chapter and the 54 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: start of a new one for Mark and I that 55 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: we're in this incredible position to be stewards of two 56 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: wonderful franchise, the Minnesota Timbols and the Lynx, And I 57 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: think we're in really a great position to have a 58 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: good runner here for the next five or seven years. 59 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: It's interesting, too to think about how important Summer League 60 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 3: has become. I mean, this was an afterthought for so 61 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 3: many years, and now you know, obviously this year is 62 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: a very busy year at the. 63 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 2: Moment for you and for me. 64 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 3: But next year we got to take our show to 65 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 3: Summer League because everybody's there, and you know, it's become 66 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: sort of a showcase for talent, but also you know, 67 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: kind of where everybody is meeting and greeting and a 68 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: more casual atmosphere. I mean, it's hot, is all get 69 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 3: out in Vegas this time. 70 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: Of the year. 71 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 3: But the basketball is good and a lot of deals 72 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 3: to get done, and so we definitely should should think 73 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 3: about that. All right, talk to me about Atlanta. How 74 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: are you feeling about the baseball season. 75 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: I feel very good. I actually sent Rob Manford a 76 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 1: note and Dan Halem a note yesterday, just congratulating them 77 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: on what a great first half has been. The numbers 78 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: have been really really good. Ratings are up, you know, 79 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: north of ten percent. Just finished watching the Mets Subway 80 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: series against the Yankees. The Mets did really well. They 81 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: wont two out of three. SODA's warming up. Otani never 82 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 1: stops now he's starting to pitch, and you have the 83 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: big markets that are doing well, and baseball's never been 84 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: more interesting. So I'm really excited. And the fact that 85 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: it's in Atlanta, one of the big hubs of Major 86 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: League Baseball and a team that I grew up watching 87 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: with Dale Murphy and Chipper Jones and the great history 88 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: of the Braves, which you know so well. I'm excited 89 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: I have celebration for the game of baseball and I'm 90 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: up for. 91 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: It well, and it's interesting too with you and I 92 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,559 Speaker 3: have talked about the fact that the Battery, which sits 93 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: outside of Truest Park there in Atlanta, has become really 94 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: a model I think for a lot of what baseball 95 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 3: stadiums are trying to do. I would imagine even as 96 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 3: an owner of an NBA and a WNBA team, you're 97 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,799 Speaker 3: taking note around the real estate that can be built 98 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 3: and developed around a stadium as successfully as it has there. 99 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 3: You know, that was, as I'm sure you remember, it 100 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: was a very controversial move, including for me and a 101 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: lot of people who grew up rooting for the Braves. 102 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 3: You know, they played at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium, you know, downtown, 103 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,039 Speaker 3: then they moved to Turner Field after the Olympics. When 104 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 3: they moved to the suburbs, people were going crazy. This 105 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 3: is a you know, terrible move. But the Braves have 106 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: never been better, and they've never drawn more people, and 107 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 3: they've really built a winning franchise, not just on the field, 108 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 3: but a team that routinely attracts big crowds and very 109 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: enthusiastic crowds. 110 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: And they never made more money. And that's because they 111 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: didn't think the fans would travel to the suburbs they have. 112 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: Then they build a battery which has become an incredible 113 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 1: mixed use attraction, and the economics that followed. And what 114 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: was interesting, Jason, when I was there covering with Fox 115 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: the World Series, it felt like it was LSU against 116 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: Alabama or Alabama against Georgia. It was the most ruckous, 117 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 1: great atmosphere. It felt like a football crowd, but not 118 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: just football, a college football crowd, very festive. And that 119 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: was something that I thought the Braves of the Old 120 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: Braves was missing, that great passion. Yeah, and boy, I'll 121 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: tell you. And this new building is there and is 122 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: there loud? 123 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: Yeah it is. 124 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 3: It's funny you say that, because I mean I do remember, 125 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 3: you know when I moved back to Atlanta after college 126 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 3: in the late nineties, and I would go to Turner Field. 127 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 3: If the Yankees would come to town, if the Mets 128 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: would come to town, if the Red Sox would come to town. 129 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 3: There would be more fans visiting for the rooting team 130 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: than they were for the Braves, which was very sad 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 3: to me, especially because the Braves were getting really good 132 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: in the nineties and obviously they turned it up in 133 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: those Chipper Jones and you know Tom Glavin, Greg Maddox, 134 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,559 Speaker 3: you know Steve Avery days as you remember so well. 135 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 3: But you know, this move really has ignited that fan 136 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: base and it has been you know, you talk about 137 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 3: a deal, what a great deal for the owners. You know, 138 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 3: Liberty Media is a corporate owner, which you know sometimes 139 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: like are they really going to take care of this franchise? 140 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 2: You know, they really have. So I'm excited to. 141 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 3: Hear your report from there. Get my regards to my hometown. 142 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 3: Coming up on this show, Hard Pivot, we have a 143 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 3: really interesting interview with Will Ahmed, who is the CEO 144 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 3: and founder of Whoop. This is a really really interesting 145 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: story of entrepreneurship, of investment. 146 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: This is a multi billion dollar business at this point. Yeah. 147 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: Well is one of the most impressive young man I've 148 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: ever met. He came out of Harvard, was an athlete 149 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: there in his early twenties, had this very bold idea 150 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: and I got to tell you, Jason, I was so 151 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: impressed with his story, his composure, his long term thinking, 152 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: and then his world class blue chip type investors that 153 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: he has in his cap table is incredibly impressive. 154 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great conversation. So excited for you guys. 155 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 2: Hear that coming up on the deal. Will Ahmed from WOOP. 156 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 3: Hi, everyone, welcome back to the deal. I'm Jason Kelly 157 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: alongside Alex Rodriguez. So excited to have with us Will Ahmed. 158 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 3: He is the founder and the CEO of WOOP. You 159 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: have seen these devices on many many successful people's wrists, 160 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 3: people who want to track their sleep, their activity, their health, 161 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: all of it. Well, this was your idea, and we're 162 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: so excited to have you with us. 163 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 2: Thank you. 164 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,239 Speaker 4: Awesome, great to be on with you, Jason, Alex. Real pleasure. 165 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 2: All right, so give us the origin story. 166 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: I mean, let's just start with this origin story of 167 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: how you come up with this idea. Let's start with 168 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 3: this product that we're hearing so much about. This is 169 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: a company that's valued it better than three and a 170 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 3: half billion dollars. 171 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: Now where does it all begin. 172 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, it began for me just as a college athlete. 173 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 4: I mean I grew up kind of always into sports 174 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 4: and exercise and playing a dozen different sports as a kid. 175 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 4: I ended up being pretty good at squash, and so 176 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 4: I played that at Harvard and we were one of 177 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 4: the top ranked teams, and my experience of being a 178 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 4: college athlete was an amazing one, but it was one 179 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 4: in which I would overtrain. Alex is probably super familiar 180 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 4: with this concept. About seventy percent of athletes overtrained at 181 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 4: some point in their career. But you know, you essentially 182 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: kind of get fitter and fitter and fitter, and then 183 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 4: somewhat surprisingly fall off a cliff and you don't know why, 184 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 4: and your body's fatigued, it's run down, you're not performing well, 185 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,079 Speaker 4: you don't necessarily know why. It's a real betrayal for 186 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 4: for athletes. And that sort of simple concept just got 187 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 4: me very interested in what you could measure about the 188 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 4: human body. And I just started to ask simple questions 189 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 4: like how to sleep affect performance? What is recovery? How 190 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 4: can I measure my output of exercise? And I was 191 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 4: surprised how little technology there was in the world to 192 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 4: be able to measure these things. And this was also 193 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 4: we're talking about twenty ten, eleven twelve, when I was 194 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 4: a student the iPhone it started to really take off. 195 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 4: Then there was a feeling, at least from my standpoint, 196 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 4: that computers were going from being on your desk to 197 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 4: being on your lap, to being in your pocket, to 198 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 4: potentially eventually on your body. And so I started doing 199 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 4: a lot of physiology research as a student. I read 200 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 4: something like five hundred medical papers and ended up writing 201 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 4: a paper around how to continuously measure the human body. 202 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 4: And so that paper essentially became the business plan for Whoop, 203 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 4: and I recruited some great people out of Harvard and 204 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 4: worked with some great professors at Harvard and MIT and 205 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 4: started this business summer of twenty twelve as a twenty 206 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 4: two year old who didn't know much about anything. But 207 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 4: it's been a fascinating ride since then. 208 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 3: And so at that moment, will at this moment, I 209 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: should say here in twenty twenty five, tracking, especially fitness trackers, 210 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: feel you bike what it's largely owing to you. It 211 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 3: obviously felt like a big opportunity for you, but it 212 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: probably didn't feel obvious to a lot of the people 213 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: you were talking to back then. 214 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: Is that fair? 215 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 4: I think in twenty twelve it was. It was certainly 216 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 4: less obvious that there was going to be wearable devices 217 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 4: that people were wearing all the time. So I think 218 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 4: I was early to that idea. I think, however, I 219 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 4: was at a disadvantage of you know, I wasn't an engineer, 220 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 4: I wasn't a computer scientist, I wasn't a doctor, and 221 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 4: I was building this technology at the intersection of all 222 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 4: of those things, and so I think that, you know, 223 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 4: for me as an entrepreneur, there was a lot I 224 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 4: needed to overcome. There was a lot I needed to prove. 225 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 4: WOOP wasn't just the first company I started. It was 226 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:07,200 Speaker 4: my first full time job, so there was just, frankly, 227 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 4: a lot to learn. And then from a market standpoint, 228 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 4: we were really focused on trying to replace great medical technology. 229 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 4: So the PSG machine was really the gold standard for 230 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 4: sleep monitoring. If you've ever had an issue with sleep, 231 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 4: apnea or sleep in general, maybe you've been sent to 232 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: a sleep lab. Well, they're put all these nodes on 233 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 4: your body and give you a really accurate readout of sleep. 234 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 4: I wondered, hey, can we take some of that technology 235 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 4: and put it in a small form factor. I asked 236 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 4: the same question about the electro cardiogram, because the electro cardiogram, 237 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,119 Speaker 4: you know, which is this like twenty thousand dollars hospital equipment. 238 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 4: You know, if you're watching a movie, it's a thing 239 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 4: that's going beep, beep beep, right, you know, I asked myself, hey, 240 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 4: can we take some of that technology and put it 241 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 4: in a small form factor because it can measure heart revariability, 242 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 4: which is this fascinating lens into recovery. And you know, 243 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 4: I asked, can we take a chest strap, which is like, 244 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 4: you know, the gold standard at least it was for 245 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: measuring heart rate during exercise and put that in a 246 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: small form factor. And so there was a big, like 247 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 4: technology risk to what we were trying to do because 248 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 4: these were technologies that had existed for a while, were 249 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 4: made by big players and were obviously cumbersome, and can 250 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 4: you make them a non invasive So that was the 251 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 4: big technology risk to overcome. And as we started doing that, 252 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 4: all of a sudden, most of the biggest companies in 253 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 4: the world entered the market. 254 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: So well, that's a great one because I love the 255 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: idea and the entrepreneurs spirit. You talked about some technology risk. 256 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: Let's go back to when you're twenty two years old. 257 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: It's a great idea. It's an awesome idea, but like 258 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: you said, you're not an engineer, you're not a scientist, 259 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: so you have some headwinds. Well, you have this great idea, 260 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: when did you determine, Hey, what's the tam is on 261 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,959 Speaker 1: this business? And secondly, when did you feel like, in 262 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: your heart, I can actually make some money out of this? 263 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: Out of my passion. 264 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 4: It really never was about the money. I mean, I 265 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 4: think I was just a kid who was so obsessed 266 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: with an idea that I didn't have any other choice. 267 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 4: You know, people were like, well, how did you decide 268 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 4: to start a company versus go into finance or go 269 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 4: into the corporate world. For me, it was just all 270 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 4: my free time. I was thinking about this idea in 271 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 4: the back of my head. And I think that's a 272 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 4: very good sign for anyone who's deciding what they want 273 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 4: to do. If there's something you keep wandering back to, 274 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 4: I think that says a lot about how you feel. 275 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 4: And for me, for the longest time, that's been this 276 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 4: idea of whoop. I think the market opportunity piece got 277 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 4: progressively more exciting as the technology got more exciting. You know, 278 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 4: Initially it was a very athlete's focused business. So we 279 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 4: wanted to start with the world's best athletes and then 280 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 4: go from there to sports teams, college teams, and eventually 281 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 4: a bunch of consumers we thought would wear it. And 282 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 4: that was a reasonably successful strategy. It happened to take 283 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 4: longer and cost more, but you know, two of our 284 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 4: first one hundred users were people like Lebron James and 285 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 4: Michael Phelps in twenty fifteen, and so that was like, 286 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,359 Speaker 4: you know, getting to work with some real, really superstar 287 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 4: athletes for a product that was completely unknown, and it 288 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: started to validate to me, Wow, we really must be 289 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 4: onto something with this technology if these athletes who care 290 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 4: so much about their bodies want to use this product 291 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 4: over anything else. And this was a time by the 292 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 4: way Apple was entering the market, Nike, under Armor, Adidas, Puma, 293 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 4: We're all entering the market. Microsoft, Google were about a 294 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 4: year from entering the market. Soon Amazon would be in 295 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 4: the space. Like we really had a lot of competition, 296 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 4: and so when I saw all these big players now 297 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 4: coming in, I did realize at that point, Wow, winning 298 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: this market is going to be a big deal. 299 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 3: Go back if you will to getting those huge names 300 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: will because that obviously is it is a game changer, Like, 301 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 3: how does that happen that you get those caliber people 302 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 3: like Lebron wearing this to be such an early adopter. 303 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, I found that the key to getting to sort 304 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 4: of anyone in life is figuring out someone who's got 305 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 4: a big influence on them that also a bunch of 306 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 4: other people don't already know. You know, so in the 307 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 4: case of a professional athlete, if you're an unknown entrepreneur 308 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 4: going to their agent or their spouse or you know, 309 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 4: their coach, it's sort of a non starter because these 310 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 4: people get inundated on behalf of an athlete. But who's 311 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 4: someone that a professional athlete actually spends a lot of 312 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 4: time with that other people don't know. It's their personal trainer. 313 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 4: And so that became the insight. We realized if we 314 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 4: could get to the personal trainer of a professional athlete, 315 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 4: we had an inn. And by the way, this is 316 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen. It's sort of like pre Instagram fitness influence, 317 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 4: if you will. And these guys were pretty unknown, and 318 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 4: so you know, I got to know Mike Mincis, who 319 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 4: is Lebron James's trainer. I got to go Keenan Robinson, 320 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 4: who is Michael Phobbs's trainer at the time, and we 321 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 4: started by sending them the product, and we also talked 322 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 4: about how the product could be a tool for them 323 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 4: to work with their athlete. You know, Alex, I'd be 324 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 4: curious your experience with this, but I think when your 325 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: trainer comes to you and says, hey, I think this 326 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 4: is something that can help, let's try to put it 327 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 4: into the mix, you listen to that, right. 328 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: I think it's brilliant and I've never thought about that, 329 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: And I love the competitive advantage. When you're a young entrepreneur, 330 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,280 Speaker 1: you have limited resources, but when you go to the 331 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: trainer and he's talking about something like this, that's the 332 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: only person you really listen to. That's why you're hiring them. 333 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: So I think I just learned something here. This is awesome. 334 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: I love the idea. I want to follow up with Jason. 335 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: Jason kind of went the route of the le Bronze 336 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: of the World and how impactful that can be. I 337 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: want to flip to the capital race side, because obviously 338 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen could have been a tough time for a 339 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: young entrepreneur with a great idea, but when you raised 340 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: four hundred million dollars and as Jason said, the company's 341 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: worth north of three point five billion today. Is there 342 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: a couple of names that you said, huh, I bagged 343 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: the elephant. This is going to make a big difference, 344 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: just like you did Lebron on that side. 345 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 4: From a raising capital standpoint. 346 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, from a blue chip investor, from an LP of yours. 347 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting, like the first eight years of the 348 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 4: company's history, I think we're actually quite challenging from a 349 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 4: capital standpoint. And everyone looks today at Whoop as this 350 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,679 Speaker 4: really successful company that you know, went from zero to 351 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 4: multi billion dollar valuations and higher. But the truth is 352 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 4: along the way, like there were a lot of very 353 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,359 Speaker 4: hard fundraises, and I think they were hard for a 354 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 4: few reasons. One was that we were building hardware, which 355 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 4: was capital intensive. Two is that I was still learning 356 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 4: how to be a great CEO, and so I was 357 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 4: developing in that role as a fund which is a 358 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 4: skill like anything else. And three was that the competition 359 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 4: was really intense. I mean, who are you going to 360 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: bet on Apple or an unknown entrepreneur? You know who 361 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 4: You're gonna bet on Nike or an unknown entrepreneur, And 362 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 4: so I'm sympathetic to that looking back on it, why 363 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 4: it was hard to raise capital. And then a few 364 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 4: things all clicked at once. We figured out the right 365 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 4: business model for the company. So just to play it out, 366 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 4: we had worked with athletes for quite some time. We 367 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: had built this brand around performance, which we can maybe 368 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 4: talk a little bit more about what it takes to 369 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 4: build a brand. And then we entered the consumer market, 370 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 4: and that initial transition was hard because we were selling 371 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 4: the product for five hundred bucks. Consumers were trying to 372 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 4: figure out what it was, why is it so expensive? 373 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 4: And we had this real business model innovation where we 374 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 4: turned the whole business into a subscription and what that 375 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 4: meant is you could sign up for thirty dollars or 376 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 4: one hundred and eighty dollars for six months, and then 377 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 4: if you fell in love with the product, you would 378 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 4: keep paying for it over time, and the hardware was 379 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 4: included as part of that, but you'd have to keep 380 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 4: paying a subscription. And that business model innovation, because the 381 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 4: cost got so much lower to sign up, it created 382 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 4: a ton of demand and then it became a question 383 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 4: of well, does your product live up to the hype? 384 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 4: Is your product any good? And fortunately We've had a 385 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 4: good product for a long time, and so all of 386 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 4: a sudden we then unlocked the growth side of it. 387 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 4: Answer your investment question, Alex, we unlocked annual recurring revenue, 388 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 4: which took us from being a hardware business to more 389 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 4: of a SaaS business, and so that was able to 390 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 4: catapult our valuation. And you know, in like a four 391 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 4: year period, we went from probably being a business value 392 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 4: at a couple one hundred million to being a business 393 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 4: valued at close to four billion. 394 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 395 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: I know you don't want to single out one single 396 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: Bluechib investor, but was there one that we went home 397 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: to your wife you said, you won't believe who's writ 398 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: in a check. 399 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 4: Well, I've got a few of those. The one I'll 400 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 4: call out is is Masa's son from soft Bank, because 401 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 4: I read about Masa long before I met him, and 402 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 4: you know, this is the guy who founded and created 403 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 4: soft Bank Capital, which is one of the very biggest 404 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:24,199 Speaker 4: investors in the world, and Masa is extremely ambitious, and 405 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 4: he's also someone who had seen a bunch of incarnations 406 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 4: of wearable products over the years, and so kind of 407 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 4: independent from trying to raise capital from Masa, I was 408 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 4: genuinely interested in what he thought of the business. And 409 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 4: this was a guy who had, you know, met with 410 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 4: every entrepreneur there was out there. And so I found 411 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 4: the experience of getting to know Massa quite cool. And 412 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 4: I'm still an admirer of his and uh and we're 413 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 4: proud to, of course, have raised capital from soft Bank. 414 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 4: In that process. 415 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: You mentioned, you know, sort of your undergraduate experience as 416 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 3: a college athlete at Harvard, you end up deciding to 417 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: build your business there in Boston. You know, for those 418 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 3: who are just listening and not watching this on YouTube, 419 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 3: I believe I can see Fenway Park behind it, right 420 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,399 Speaker 3: over your shoulder. 421 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: That's what was giving me a headache, Jason, That's what's 422 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 1: giving me a headache. I was ready for Alex to 423 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: say something I was trying to say. I've played there before. 424 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 2: I know what that place is. 425 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 3: Talk to us about building a business in Boston because 426 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 3: obviously very well known as a tech center, obviously an 427 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 3: unbelievable amount of you know, medical and scientific research that's 428 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: embedded there. How have you found it as an entrepreneur 429 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 3: and now, as you know, more full fledged, fast growing business. 430 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,800 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I became a Boston resident, you know, 431 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 4: a little bit by accident. Again, I started the company 432 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 4: in Cambridge at a Harvard and it so happened at 433 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 4: the time I was graduating, the Harvard Innovation Lab was 434 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 4: getting started, and this was sort of like your tech 435 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 4: hub or your y combinator of Harvard, and so it 436 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 4: gave us free office space, and it gave us the 437 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 4: ability to keep building for a few months. And those 438 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 4: few months became eighteen months. And in that process I 439 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 4: met some angel investors, and I hired a few full 440 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 4: time people, and I got to know the schools and 441 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 4: some advisors. I started working with a few sports teams, 442 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 4: and it just started to snowball from there. And you know, 443 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 4: now looking back on it, Boston is this city that 444 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 4: has an unbelievable medical community. It's got some of the 445 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,120 Speaker 4: best hospitals in the world. It produces more medical research 446 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 4: than any other city in the world. It's got an 447 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 4: amazing sports culture. You know, there's real energy for sports here, 448 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 4: and there's always been great teams. It's got a strong 449 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 4: tech hub and a lot of engineering talent, and it's got, 450 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 4: you know, some of the very best universities in the 451 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 4: world and therefore research labs. So the combination of those things, 452 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 4: in many ways make up a lot of the DNA 453 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 4: of Whoop and so I didn't, you know, I didn't 454 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 4: fully appreciate it when I was founding the company. I 455 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 4: grew up on the North Shore along Island and so 456 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 4: is you know, in New Yorker at Hart and I 457 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: kind of always thought I was I'd build this business 458 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 4: in New York. But you know, here we are twelve 459 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 4: years later and seven hundred employees in Boston, and this 460 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 4: is home. 461 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 3: One thing that strikes me, going back to something you 462 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 3: said earlier, was this notion of the competitive landscape, which 463 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,120 Speaker 3: you know, interestingly looks very different today than it did 464 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 3: back then. I mean a lot of the companies that 465 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 3: you mentioned have either really shifted within the wearable space. Obviously, 466 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 3: Apple watches are still out there, but some of the 467 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 3: other folks that you mentioned have you know, either given 468 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 3: up or scaled back. What has happened in the business 469 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 3: to affect that sort of change, and what role have 470 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 3: you played in that and how does it affect your business? 471 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 4: I think the first thing to understand is that the 472 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 4: wearable technology industry is actually an extremely hard category. You know, again, 473 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 4: something you don't know when you haven't built a business before, 474 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 4: but it just so happens that this category is quite hard. 475 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,640 Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot of categories where I think 476 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 4: you can be like great at one or two things 477 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 4: and that can build the business. Wearable technology, you have 478 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 4: to be able to build hardware, software, analytics. You really 479 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 4: need some good design foundation because people are wearing it 480 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 4: on their bodies. And then as a consequence, you need 481 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 4: brand because when someone wears something on their body, it 482 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 4: starts to say a lot about who they are. And 483 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 4: when you look at sort of the array of companies 484 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 4: that have entered the space, we're talking about many of 485 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 4: the best companies of all time. I mean, I have 486 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 4: so much admiration for companies like Nike and Microsoft and 487 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 4: Google and so on and so forth. And I think 488 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 4: what you saw, at least initially with this wearable space 489 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 4: is the entrance were sports apparel brands and they were 490 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 4: tech companies. And if the the simple math to being 491 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 4: successful in the wearable space is you need to have 492 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 4: a cool product that people want to wear, and it 493 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,959 Speaker 4: needs to perform from a tech standpoint, you kind of 494 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 4: saw the tech companies and the sportsball brands struggle with 495 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: the opposite thing. You know, a tech company would come 496 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 4: out with something that from a technology standpoint was pretty interesting, 497 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 4: but it kind of looked like a goofy, weird gadget 498 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 4: to wear on your wrist, and so people took it 499 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 4: off and didn't want to wear it for a long time, 500 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 4: and it certainly was bumping up against someone's maybe nicer 501 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 4: watch that they otherwise wanted to wear when they went out. 502 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 4: And then on the flip side, sports appeal brands a 503 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 4: company like Nike, which again I have enormous admiration for, 504 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 4: they launched a product like the fuel Bland. It was 505 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 4: a pretty cool looking product and I think they had 506 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 4: obviously the weight of Nike behind it, but the tech 507 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 4: was just totally lame and it didn't really measure anything 508 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 4: significant about the human body. So that was the challenge 509 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 4: with the space, and I think if there's success that 510 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 4: Whoop has had, we've been able to straddle both of 511 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 4: those worlds where we created that origin story in sports 512 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 4: that was very authentic. It's a performance brand and I 513 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 4: think that's also very authentic, and then we've got technology 514 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 4: that you know, makes the product really hum and it's 515 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 4: very accurate. 516 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: You talked about the success of Whoop so far and 517 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 1: you've been around for a minute. Now what inning of 518 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 1: you in in your progression? And second part of that 519 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: is when you think about an exit, whether it's in 520 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: a year or ten years from now or twenty years 521 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: from now, how do you see your role, how long 522 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 1: do you want to do it? And if you do exit, 523 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: is this an exit to a public company or is 524 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,880 Speaker 1: it to a Nike, Apple, Microsoft? How do you see 525 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: that in the future. 526 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 4: You know, we've built the business for a long time 527 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,119 Speaker 4: to be a standalone company, you know, which is to 528 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 4: say that we own all of our own hardware, we 529 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,360 Speaker 4: own all of our own software, we have our own 530 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 4: data science and research team, We've got AI capabilities. Now, 531 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 4: we've got our own accessories and a parel line. You know, 532 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 4: We've got obviously all the bells and whistles of marketing 533 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 4: and ambassadors and so forth. And so I bring that 534 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 4: up because I think it ties a little bit to 535 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 4: what we're building here. We want to build a business 536 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 4: that's an enduring business, and so Whoop has a lot 537 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 4: of those characteristics, and it's worth saying that. I think 538 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 4: for every entrepreneur on the journey, you know, somewhere along 539 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 4: the way, you either say, Okay, I'm close to the 540 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 4: top of the mountain, or I feel like I've got 541 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 4: much more to climb, And at least for me, I 542 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 4: feel like I've got a lot more to climb with 543 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 4: this business. At every stage, it kind of gets more exciting. 544 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 4: As we have more data and more people and a 545 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: deeper revenue base and more investment in R and D. 546 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 4: It kind of feels like the ambition level keeps getting 547 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 4: to rise, and so that's exciting. And I'm thirty five 548 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 4: years old, like I feel like I'm just getting started 549 00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 4: in my career, and so I've got a lot of 550 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 4: energy for this business and business in general. I do 551 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 4: think the near term or mid to near term will 552 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 4: likely be a public business. We're already at that stage today, 553 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 4: but we're taking our time with it and there's no rush. 554 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 4: We've got great investors and we're going to continue to 555 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 4: grow well. 556 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 3: I'm going to ask you a question that Alex often asked, 557 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 3: but I'm going to turn it on its head. Not 558 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 3: about sort of your mentors, which you're more than welcome 559 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 3: to discuss, but as someone who has had, you know, 560 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 3: a lot of success and has really focused on this 561 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 3: company as you're really your life, your whole career since undergrad. 562 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 3: How do you think about sort of passing it on 563 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 3: to the next generation. I know the next generation is 564 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 3: much closer to you than it is to us, but like, 565 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 3: how do you think about you know, especially within the 566 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: community of harvardalum within Boston, you know, how do you 567 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 3: think of it about sort of paying it forward as 568 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: it were? Because you know, you do have this really 569 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 3: interesting model of building a company. 570 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 4: Well, I have a lot of sympathy for that sort 571 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 4: of young audience, like twenty two years old, trying to 572 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 4: figure out what you want to do with your life, 573 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 4: and so I do like a meeting with young people. 574 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 4: We've also got an internship program at WHOOP, We've got 575 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 4: co op programs where we're hiring kids who are in college. 576 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 4: And you know, it's something I try to offer to 577 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 4: that audience, is to try to figure out what you 578 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 4: really want to do with your life, and figuring out 579 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 4: what you don't want to do counts too. But I 580 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 4: find that a lot of young people, and I was 581 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 4: in this camp, get a ton of advice at that age, 582 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,959 Speaker 4: and it, frankly, it tends to come from a place 583 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 4: for other people of this is what you should do. 584 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 4: This is what you should do. And so it's easy 585 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 4: to sort of take the mean of what a bunch 586 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 4: of people tell you to do and do that and 587 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 4: completely lose sight of your heart and what you're driven 588 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 4: to and your passion. And I try to encourage young 589 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,360 Speaker 4: people to really look within and actually take less advice. 590 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,520 Speaker 4: And I think there's also a feeling when you're twenty 591 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 4: two or twenty five or thirty, like there's a feeling 592 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 4: like the weights on your back and you have to 593 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 4: figure it out immediately. And if I go out on 594 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 4: a limb, I'm going to take on all this risk. 595 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 4: And I think a lot of that is actually not true. 596 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 4: I think a lot of it comes down to how 597 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 4: quickly you the individual, you the entrepreneur, can get on 598 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 4: that right path for yourself, and so anything that you 599 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 4: do that's kind of positioning yourself towards that is good. 600 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 4: I thought that if Whoop failed, you know, it'd probably 601 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 4: be like the end of me. But looking back on it, 602 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 4: I think if the company had failed, I would have, 603 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 4: you know, apologized to my investors and dusted myself off 604 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 4: and started the next thing. You know, The amount that 605 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 4: I learned in the process of starting a business would 606 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 4: set me up pretty great for the next thing too. 607 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 4: And so I think that it's really a race for 608 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 4: young people to figure out who they are, what they 609 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 4: want to do, and sort of look within rather than 610 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 4: seek validation outwards. 611 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: That's one of the most interesting answers. 612 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,959 Speaker 3: I feel like I've ever gotten to that question of, like, 613 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 3: you know, advice for young people, because I do think 614 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 3: you know, we're all looking for answers, but you're right. 615 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes you know, the best answer is whatever 616 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 3: the one is that you give yourself. 617 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: That's super interesting, all right. 618 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 3: We like to end every episode with a bit of 619 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 3: a lightning round five questions. We'll bounce it back and forth. 620 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 3: I'll start and then Alex will pick up and just 621 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 3: you know, say whatever jumps to your mind. It's been 622 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 3: really fun, all right. So, what's the best piece of 623 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 3: advice you've ever received on deal making your business? 624 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 4: A mentor once told me you don't necessarily have to 625 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 4: listen to what everyone says, but you should try to 626 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 4: hear it. His point was, look, you're gonna be getting 627 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 4: negativity from all angles for the rest of your life, 628 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 4: and you need to be able to build a system 629 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 4: to just hear what it is and react to it 630 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 4: and develop. And so taking that advice really helped me 631 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 4: grow as a manager and a leader, because you can't 632 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 4: run a company or run anything, frankly, if you're gonna 633 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 4: just be closed off to any form of feedback. Now 634 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 4: you can hear it, in absorb it, and disagree with it, 635 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,040 Speaker 4: which is again that nuance and earring versus listening. 636 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: Who's your dream deal making partner? 637 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 4: Someone I have green admiration for is Phil Knight and 638 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 4: the business that he built with Nike. 639 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 3: What team do you want to see win a championship 640 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 3: more than any other? 641 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: Well, I just. 642 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 4: Got to see the Celtics win not that long ago, 643 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 4: so that was a big deal. We've Boston residents tend 644 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 4: to do pretty well in that category. 645 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: All right, there's a tough one here, here we go. 646 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: What's your hype song before a big meeting or a 647 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: big negotiation? 648 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 4: I love listening to sort of hip hop to pick 649 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 4: me up when I'm a little low. There's a great 650 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 4: song called Otis by Kanye West and jay Z. 651 00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: Good one. 652 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 3: All right, So if you were giving advice to someone 653 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 3: who wants a career like yours, what would it be 654 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 3: and you wanted them to listen to it. 655 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 4: I think get started, keep going. There's a lot that's 656 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 4: going to go wrong in the process of building a business. 657 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 4: I think it's easy to look at someone who's made 658 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 4: it and try to compare yourself to them, And the 659 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 4: reality is when that entrepreneur that you're looking up to 660 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,120 Speaker 4: was in your shoes, I can promise you I didn't 661 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 4: know what the hell I was doing, but I was 662 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 4: willing to pick myself up every morning and get rejected 663 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 4: and punched in the face and then do it over again. 664 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 4: And I did have conviction in what I was building. 665 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 4: You know, I really believe that there was a problem 666 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 4: to solve with measuring people's health and that there was 667 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 4: a technology that we could build that could fill that void. 668 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 4: And so that I think passion and perseverance helped me 669 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 4: get to where I am today. 670 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 2: Well, I'm ed. 671 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 3: This has been a ton of fun and we really 672 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 3: appreciate you joining us. 673 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Thank you. 674 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 4: Will all right, guys, I appreciate Jason, Alex, thank you 675 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 4: guys so much. Congrats on everything. 676 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,920 Speaker 3: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. 677 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 3: This episode was made by Anamazarakus, Stacy Wong and Lizzie Phillip. 678 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 3: Amy Keen is our editor and Will Connelly is our 679 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 3: video editor. Our theme music is made by Blake Maples. 680 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,640 Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Hoenig, and Brenda Neonham. 681 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 3: Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Additional support 682 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 3: from Rachel Carnivale and Elena sos Angeles. Thanks so much 683 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 3: for listening to the deal. If you have a minute, subscribe, 684 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 3: rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. 685 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 3: I'm Jason Kelly. See you next week.